The Russian academic approach is that you learn to constructively understand things so well that your imagination drawings can be anything you want effortlessly, right?

Makes sense, but proko was trained in the academic style and his imagination drawings suck? He seems to need a model or reference to draw the simplest things

>>7167998
proko is a great teacher but he is not a great artist when it comes to drawing anything but humans. Like in the Zoo video where Aaron Blaise draws mogs the fuck out of him

>>7167998
He got derailed by america's "artistic culture". If he wanted to be an artist for teal, he should have stayed there. But he wanted to be a showman with his top hat and a big fake smile, prancing around, doing bad jokes and clown shit for the "audience". At some point he will go back to his russian slavic roots. But he will be old. And he will do it for himself, not for the crowds.
Also this>>7168003

Proko was not.trainrd by the Russians. He was trained by jeff watts

The better question is why is Russian academic art so soulless?

>>7167998
Ask yourself why this "academic" approach hasn't produced a single animator, cartoonist, or visionary of any stripe and you have your answer

>>7168003
>in the Zoo video where Aaron Blaise draws mogs the fuck out of him
Aaron Blaise would mog most artists when it comes to drawing animals.
The guy is an animal & creature specialist besides being a great 2d animator.

>>7168038
>The better question is why is Russian academic art so soulless?
They make their students memorize the entire skeleton and dissect cadavers.

And obviously, if all you study are skeletons and corpses, your drawings will look like a corpse.

If you want as much life as possible in your art, you should avoid studying the skeleton as far as possible. Study the living, pulsating muscles. Study like Burne Hogarth

>>7168047
Sure but Proko has a serious problem when it comes to drawing anything that isn't a human, the Aaron Blaise video is just one example, there are many. All his drawing from imagination videos are kinda bad, he has the fixation with line quality in the very beginning of the drawing and it always ends up looking like crappy clipart because of it

>>7167998
you are confusing two different academic approaches. Yes the russian approach uses construction heavily, but the western academic approach barely uses that method.

They mostly teach sight-size copying with gradually increasing difficulty. So you start with bargue plates, move to plasters and so on. Essentially turning you into a copy machine. By the end of you can copy any artist, from life etc.

But in terms of constructive drawing, inventing figures in spaces or creating imaginative scenes - no. Everyone trained solely on the copying approach sucks at this. Just look at Jeff Watts drawings from imagination - Prokos teacher. They are high-beg tier shit.

Everything comes at a price. You can also go down the scott robertson autism approach, construct everything from scratch and supplement it with life-drawing skills without ever becoming an academy-tier far machine. It really depends on what you want at the end of the day.

Maybe the best middle ground is to mix construction with life-drawing like the russians do but somehow avoid that lifeless stiff look they produce. Also, before anyone asks, I have no work to post. I just no from lurking this board for fucking a decade now what the different approaches are. I also collected all the artbooks and shit but eventually never did anything.

I am 26 now and I've been through too much shit to know what to do with my life anymore. I am talking serious shit like homelessness and child abuse. I mainly come here because I like the people, I like looking at peoples drawings, no matter how bad. It's cozy and just seeing people be creative is therapeutic to me.

About Proko - again, since I have been here so long I know all the proko lore. I was literally there when the livestream with the "kangaroo" happened. I remember seeing the thread announcing it beforehand. I was watching it unfold.

Cont. in next reply, I will explain what happened to Proko.

>>7168055
As any oldfag here can tell you, Proko started out NOT DRAWING! - His earliest known works were 3d animations he did. Cartoony stuff. So really, he wanted to be a fun-guy, fun artist, doing cartoons, comics.
Then he got the offer to join Watts-Atelier-Of-Burned-Faces. Big mistake. For the next 10 years Proko was slowly turned into a Fax Machine, never developing his actual passion, to be a comic artist/cartoonist. This haunts him to this day. For instance, I remember he posted this terrible, terrible comic with two talking dogs and something with triangles, idk, it was trash. He constantly is trying to recapture that spark he had decades ago, before he picked the wrong path.

Other artists also don't respect him. Again, oldfags will remember the interview with Steve Huston where Proko is just out of place. This is why it is important to know what you want and then stick to it. Proko jumped the gun and got on the wrong train. It is very sad, honestly.

He further shot himself in the foot by accepting a teaching position at Watts slave factory. He is now financially tethered to this job, with little time to do other stuff. Whenever I watch Proko, I just get sad, depressed vibes. He just seems in pain all the time. Don't be Proko.

That's all I will say on that. Do what actually feeds your soul.

Oh and btw, Jeff Watts is the same. Just so everyone knows, Jeff started out being an athlete, doing sports. He only started doing art because he wanted to please his dad. In one video long ago he said the classic cope line of "I have no kids, but I consider my students to be my kids." He is a lonely old man who made the wrong decision, like Proko. Like Master, so Student.

That's all for now. If anyone is reading this, your art gives me joy no matter how shit it is, I come here just for the healing effect it has on me to see people create something. Keep working, it's bigger than you. Bye.

>>7167998
>The Russian academic approach is that you learn to constructively understand things
Yes

> so well that your imagination drawings can be anything you want effortlessly, right?
No

I leave the details to you: pick up some Russian drawings and study.

>>7168038
>Proko was not.trainrd by the Russians. He was trained by jeff watts
TBF, Watts relies heavily on construction.

>>7168044
>Ask yourself why this "academic" approach hasn't produced a single animator, cartoonist, or visionary of any stripe and you have your answer
Conversely, I've yet to see an animator being able to come up with something like picrel

>>7168038
>The better question is why is Russian academic art so soulless?
See picrel, among many others

>>7168068
>Conversely, I've yet to see an animator being able to come up with something like picrel

holy shit he turned his peenus into a light-bulb! GENIUS!

>>7168048
This
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sch<wbr>ool_of_Visual_Arts
>This school was started by Silas H. Rhodes and Burne Hogarth in 1947
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis<wbr>t_of_School_of_Visual_Arts_people
Just look at all those ultrachads it mastercrafted; what the fuck??
>>7168064
I appreciate this

>>7168064
I don't even think Proko or Watts are sad. I could speculate I guess, but in many ways they've been successful.
Proko though, is just not creative in the slightest. Art school didn't beat it out of him, he just never had "it" to begin with. It really does seem to be inborn to a degree, or at least something that is cultivated in childhood.
On a purely technical level this Joe Murray drawing is unimpressive, so why can't Proko (and the vast majority of people) do it? It's all in the feeling, you got it or you don't.

>>7168068
>Conversely, I've yet to see an animator being able to come up with something like picrel
Why would anyone want to, beyond impressing moms, children, and pastors? Serious question

>>7168055
>just seeing people be creative is therapeutic to me
Holy shit, you nailed it, I visit this board for the same reason (and also because I draw and post sometimes, but still). Thank you for your write-up anon, I hope your current life is much better now than this shit you went through.
Also sorry for the out-of-place question, but what happened on the kangaroo stream? I don't know.

>>7168074
bro what exactly did the artist who made the pic come up with? Nudity?
its a naked dude holding a hammer, with a light-bulp dick. The execution is high effort, probably took months of autism to produce this.

But ultimately it's unremarkable. You can spend years etching away at something and it's still shit. The guy who posted it is just worshiping russian artists because that's his identity. People do that all the time, they pick teams. It's the artist version of supporting a football team. Most good art is just luck.

Think of any good artist in any field you know, and then look up how many works they produced and how many are famous. How many of beethovens pieces do you know? 1-2? Same for Mozart. How many did they make? Probably 100s.

That's another thing, apex fallacy hits hard with this shit. Yeah sure, you can show some really high effort russian paintings so fucking what? It's like showing the Sistine Chapel and acting like this is the level all western art is at.

How a piece turns out is just luck, you can not decide beforehand how it will be received. Some pieces of art are trashed upon release and celebrated later - like Moby Dick for example. So all this worshiping of different groups and schools is completely pointless, it's just sucking your own dick to seem sophisticated.

Instead people should ask themselves why they even feel the need for this kind of insecure posturing in the first place. Why are they not making art for people? It takes only a few hours of studying and you can produce art that brings joy to 80-90% of the population. Why not do that, feed your soul by making others happy? Draw something cool, give it to a child when you go outside. Or the guy next door. Make some friends. Stop being insecure.

An anon here long ago recommended a book by a jazz musician called "effortless mastery" - author is Kenny Werners. Get that. It's not your standard self-help trope. It speaks about doing less, relaxing and being realistic.

>>7168079
I am working on slowly digging myself out of this shit yeah. It is much better now than in the past.
Also no problem with the question.

Basically People were hounding Proko about drawing from imagination. He announces a livestream. People here go wild, its happening, balsy bla. Proko tries to draw... a kangaroo with boxing gloves? Nobody knows but he got fucking obliterated. It looked like a fucking miscarriage.

As far as I can recall, an avalanche of memes rained down on him. He privated the livestream. It was like the destruction of pompei, he could not contain the ever advancing pyroclastic flow of memes engulfing everything he had built online.

It's just sad man. He also started putting all these cringy "quirky" jokes into his videos which further alienated his audience - again, betraying his true nature of wanting to be a funny cartoonist. Proko is a man devoid of gusto. His Faustian gambit backfired and fate came to collect. Don't be Proko, listen to your soul.

You and me, we unironically get more joy out of art than him at this point.

>>7168074
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoP<wbr>sgJ2I_zo

Beauty, technical achievement, love for mastery.

Normies might be impressed, but it'll only last a few seconds. They're not the intended target audience.

>>7168069
Wrapped in cloth. I've never understood why people choose to draw dongs when they can be easily hidden. Gay af.

>>7168099
>Wrapped in cloth. I've never understood why people choose to draw dongs when they can be easily hidden. Gay af.

childish

>>7168048
He made one of my favourite books... But how did Burne Hogarth study?

>>7168064
how do I do the exact opposite of Proko

>>7168100
I was joking, but that's just gross, I don't want to spend time drawing dongs, it's utterly uninteresting. Same for vaginas.

My question is what approach gives you the insanely soulful golden age illustration stuff like Dean Cornwell or the old inkers?

They're technically as good as the Russians and they don't draw soulless shit

>>7168112
no offense taken, you demonstrated maturity in your reply. I just don't like elitism -.-7

>>7168110
Idk dude, be really clear about what you want with yourself. Sacrifices are unavoidable and you can't always go back and take a different path. So pick carefully. Train your self-awareness by writing a biography of your life, just for yourself. Breakdown from the beginning why you are the way you are. This will help you understand what drives you, where your insecurities are and when you are projecting or coping to protect yourself.

Personally, I never felt safe around my family so I became giga afraid of showing weakness to the point where I have no sense of identity. As a result of constantly fearing punishment, I am always on edge, looking for threats.

Just work yourself through your entire life, figure out how your current persona was formed and then you can start using art as a tool to shape yourself in the future. You can define why you do it, what you get out of it.

Another experiment you can do is to set a timeframe, i.e. 1-2 hours and just write down every single thing you do, every thought. Literally everything. In list form. What you see is that you have way more thoughts and actions than you think. These 1-2 hours will seem like an eternity when you do this. Most of our life is spent unconsciously.

That's another thing, slow down. The slower you work, the better your art will become. Just live a more deliberate life.

>>7168093
Lol, thanks for the trivia. Didn't know he actually was shit at drawing. At least I didn't follow his guides, phew

>>7168120
>They're technically as good as the Russians
Not really

>>7168161
>I just don't like elitism
To be clear, there's snob-fart-sniffing-elitism, to be distinguished from genuine appreciation of fine stuff. The former is some sort of virtue signaling, while the latter indicates a developed sense of beauty.

The two can easily be confused, and the latter is as rare as the average man is shallow.

>>7168166
>>7168093
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h4<wbr>-2HRHaHI
He'd probably be good at digital if he kept at it and trained his imagination muscles but he just wants to be a quirky businessman.

>>7167998
you talk about as if drawing from reference to create what he did is easy
idk dude, he was doodling something he wasn't sure about. the difference between you and him is that you aren't on stream

either way, he did learn how to draw kangaroos

>be chinese or Russian
>autistically grind the knowledge if every fiber of human anatomy into their brain
>do absolutely nothing with it and draw the same generic turbo autism shit over and over again
>still get mogged by the western greats who died hundreds of years ago
You can train the craft of drawing into soulless mongol but you cannot train the western soul.

Even in the decayed state that is in right now, modern western illustration soul mog all Russian academic shit into the ground.

>>7168184
Lol, thanks for the confidence boost

>>7168051
>Proko has a serious problem when it comes to drawing anything that isn't a human
I agree with you anon, I just felt it's unfair to compare any artist with Aaron Blaise in the drawing animal niche.
He's even better than most furry artists.

>>7168184
Watching this I feel bad for the guy. Why did he even go through with it?

>>7168055
> Just look at Jeff Watts drawings from imagination
Got an example? I did a virtual scene composition class with his dad and was kinda bored with how much of it was arranging references you copy together rather than any imagination work.

I've been enjoying Proko's hard pivot to working with comic book artists because all of them are pros at imaginative work.

>>7168055
The secret sauce strategy is develop hyperphantasia (Yes, this is a trainable skill) and then project and copy what you see

>>7168055
>>7168064
>doesn't draw
>makes up elaborate schizo theories about people more successful than him
What the actual fuck

>>7168377
I have hyperphantasia when I'm high, but it hasn't materialized in any real art gains. If anything I draw much worse.

Seeing something mentally and drawing correctly in space have overlap but not as much as I think you are implying.

Proko does not use the Russian method. He uses the Jeff Watts combination of Loomis and Reilly Rhythms which is a distinctly American invention.<br>You need technical skills to do excellent imaginative and creative work, so for that I recommend the Russian construction method as a helpful tool. The sight size method is far inferior.

>>7167998
For how many years are we going to make this thread?

>>7168055
>>7168064
>>7168093

Good effort on these posts. Been here for years myself and I remember the kangaroo thing. In his defense it seems like he forgot what a kangaroo looks like so naturally he couldn't draw it on a whim for a livestream. Regardless, I am not a big fan of his work or Watts', their drawings and paintings are way the fuck too mannered for me and I doubt either has the subtly to capture how something really looks. Watts got everyone drawing their core shadows like they're shit chucking apes. But anyway...

There is a feeble connection between construction and imaginative drawing. You have people who can do decent scenes without knowing the ins and outs of construction, and you have plenty of people who know construction and anatomy but can't freehand a figure in space.

In a way you have two streams of fundamentals that underpin what people think of as fundamentals. The first one is observation. The second is arrangement. All the fundamentals rest on these two. Most people who give it a go focus on observation, but fail to apply their knowledge to execute an arranged piece, which is to say, to compose a scene that is influenced more by their tastes than what is necessarily in front of them, and to actively plan how they want the results to turn out.

To put it another way, if you can passably draw and render with a reasonably "steady" light source, you have more than enough knowledge to start to practice arrangement. The moment you know what a value structure is, and how to key values, any decently popular comic book out there that has been inked in black and white has plenty of work for you to get started with.

I still think The Skillful Huntsman is an excellent template book for how to go about executing imaginative drawing as a process. It is a process, and it has to be practiced regardless of construction. Majority of it has nothing to do with construction and it comes down to arrangements.

>>7168585

> to compose a scene that is influenced more by their tastes than what is necessarily in front of them, and to actively plan how they want the results to turn out.

To expand on this: trying to explain visual harmony and balance to someone who doesn't know exactly what you are talking about is like trying to describe the color "blue". There is nothing you can do. And yet, visual harmony, contrasts, repetitions, visual pulling and a sense of direction ("liveliness"/"jumping out") in a piece are fundamental and they have to be practiced until they are cultivated as qualities of work that are obvious to you, much like the color blue when you see it.

Many books written on the subject - Dow has at least one book on Notan. There's now Framed Ink. Again, I think Skillful Huntsman is somewhat underrated for what it can give to someone who is looking to do this kind of stuff outside of mere construction.

>>7168460
With proper imagination training you can project your imagination over your vision and straight up copy it

>>7168491
There's an /ic/ theory that most of the threads are created by one or two schizos (proko sucks, pixel schizo threads, trad vs. digital, twitter drama, le random stupid art learning question, loomis sucks, loomis is the best, bridgman sucks, bridgman is the best, ...)

>>7168835
Proko sucks and trad vs digital may be me.

>>7168835
Wouldn't surprise me, the way they make up stuff they can't possibly know is completely schizophrenic.

>>7168808
I've never heard any artist describe their process in this way, can you give any examples?

>>7168898
It's a super obscure method and most people learning it aren't doing it for art. For years people have just sort of assumed you can't train visualization and there has been barely any research done.
The one famous Asian dude does it. Listen to one of his interviews and you'll hear him describe how he can imagine the scene from every angle and then he just draws from his imagination. If you can draw from life but can't draw from your visualizations your visualizations simply aren't strong enough, the ideal point is to be able to imagine things with such depth that the scene is indistinguishable from reality.
Check out the hyperphantasia and curing aphantasia subreddits. I'm a /beg/ shitter but my art improved when I starting being able to imagine 3d scenes as I'm depicting them

>>7168808
I don't believe this. Must be a translation issue. if it were true, there would be western artists describing such phenomena(and having drawings to show for it)

>>7168926
>The one famous Asian dude does it.
are you talking about kim jung gi?

>>7168931
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmq<wbr>FbgKWoao
 13:15
Like I said in my post, it isn't a common way to draw
>>7168953
Yep that was him

>>7168926
>I'm a /beg/ shitter
>but let me tell you how you can train yourself to do what a savant did, based on reddit pseudoscience
every time

>>7168971
are you a newfag or something, theres a thread abt him every other week

>>7168971
>just draw like KJG
why didnt I think of that

>>7168835
theres a lot of stupid people out there, when it still showed an ip count these types of threads had over 100 people posting and always got bumped the most
always a bunch of coping retards validating each other's ineptitudes

>>7169131
>when it still showed an ip count
lol I was recently befuddled when looking for it and not finding it; didn't knew it's been removed.

>>7168064
Watts just loves to train and get better at things. In one of his rambling streams he talks about how in high school sports he didn't even really like the games, but he loved the training. Clearly he does the same thing to this day training in the gym and he trains art skills the same. He just loves training. Seems like he approaches teaching the same way. There's a lot you can learn from him obviously, but there's also a lot that you can't, because if you just follow everything he lays out for you you'll train to be an art teacher and not an artist. This is probably what happened to Proko.

>>7168110
Keep a goal in mind of the kind of art you want to make and train to that end. For example, if you only want to make landscapes with no figures in them, don't spend years learning figure drawing and gesture, etc. Proko trained to be an art teacher and not an artist, he learned the process without wanting to do anything with it specifically.

I purchased all of his courses, now I feel like shit, his art courses are so fucking mediocre, lack of content, I definitely learned more in Youtube watching free videos, I feel so fucking weird and stupid rn. :(((

>>7169165
>I purchased all of his courses, now I feel like shit, his art courses are so fucking mediocre
How many hours have you put into them? Also, post your work

>>7168835
This board is absolutely the worst among the one I visit, in just a few months you've already seen all iterations of the type of threads that get reposted ad nauseam over and over, the replies are all the same too, I wouldn't be surprised to find out it's mostly bots at this point. It's atrocious.

>>7168084
Don't westoid the scumbag to talk about joy and goodness to others.

>>7169266
>It's atrocious.
Right? It's like the rambling of a mad man repeating the same things over and over.

We're sure we have some real schizos, there are specific threads like the Sorolla thread (with one nigger always pushing the pedo thing) or the Pollock or modern art thread (with one nigger feeling smart because he's read a little about composition). Here's a few of the latter I've saved:

https://warosu.org/ic/thread/683982<wbr>8
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/682248<wbr>8
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/680275<wbr>6
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/676558<wbr>6
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/675848<wbr>0
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/670653<wbr>0
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/667554<wbr>4
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/627818<wbr>2
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/612731<wbr>3
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/503430<wbr>4
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/453404<wbr>1
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/449070<wbr>2
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/442742<wbr>4
https://warosu.org/ic/thread/419131<wbr>4

>>7169267
See, I can't count how many times I've read that joke. I'm not a big fan of Proko's course, but if you actually put it a fair amount of work, they're good enough for you to gain.

>>7169229
>>7169276
I don’t need to post my work here. If I’ve learned anything, it’s from other artists and self-learning on YouTube. Proko’s courses are incredibly difficult to understand and apply in real life. Although Proko is good at drawing, his teaching skills leave much to be desired. For instance, the figure drawing course includes the gesture, the bean, the robobean, the structure, the landmarks, the mannequinization, the exaggeration, the proportions, the measuring, and the shading. However, there’s nothing about anatomy because you need to purchase another course that costs six hundred dollars. His way of explaining is so mediocre that it leaves you not understanding anything. Moreover, there is nothing in his courses that helps you understand how to apply these concepts in real-life scenarios. The courses also lack clarity and fail to provide guidance on how to incorporate this workflow into your daily work. And obviously, if you want to learn shading, you need to purchase another course.

>>7167998
Stan moved to that states at age 6, so all his training was American based.

His last teacher was Jeffery Watts, and Watts is a observational artists so he teaches observational art a lot more than art from imagination.

>>7168585
>There is a feeble connection between construction and imaginative drawing.
Holy shit you're smart. I had this thought for years now but I could never articulate it

>>7169266
>>7169276
the internet is dying

>>7169103
It's primarily based on how my art improved overnight after actively working on my visualization
>>7169120
Korean names all sound the same "hyung boo woo la wo gon gi"

>>7169984
>Korean names all sound the same "hyung boo woo la wo gon gi"
Koreans are white skinned, charismatic and beautiful, japs are dark skinned, cringe-retarded and ugly, aka jiggers.

>>7169991
Are you just mad that Japan fucked Korea so hard? Koreans and the Japanese are slave workers, the Koreans have it even worse.
>Beautiful
After 20 plastic surgeries lmfao

>>7169276
>tinfoil lunatic catalogues random threads going back 5 years
>i-it's all one agent, maaaan,, internet is dead, maaaaaaan!!

>>7170004
Those were randomly fetched with a quick search. Many are missing;I've been there for maybe 5 or 6 years, I saw that thread quite often.

It's not just the that also anon. For example the Sorolla thread, say you report it and for once the janitor did their job. One or two days later you'd see a new Sorolla thread, same pic, and within the first few posts someone baiting the pedo thing again.

Same with the "where the dog at" thread, same with Pollock, etc.

If my memory's correct, there are unarchived /ic/ periods.

>>7168038
Because it's just plain high skill realism.

>>7168048
>If you want as much life as possible in your art, you should avoid studying the skeleton as far as possible.

>>7168048
>>7171097
I realized it looks like I'm disrespecting Hogarth here but no. Hogarth clearly knows about the skeleton because he otherwise wouldn't know where to put the muscles. There's a reason you should start with the skeleton, you blockhead.

>>7168048
Rey Bustos was taught by Hogarth and according to him the skeletal system is the most important part.


BULLSHIT IN THE ART WORLD

Anonymous

In case you needed proof that "making it" in the art industry is a fuckin scam. This dude paints like a fuckin toddler and calls it "his style." On top of that, dude's a fucking AWARD WINNING "artist."

Post more bullshit about the art world.

>>7168173
>"what a shit, who's draw that?!
>"Picasso"
>"Oh, yes! What a beauty!"
Pyw

>>7168177
>Pyw
Who said I liked Picasso? I'm also not claiming to be better than this guy. I suck shit at art. I can draw at least as well as he can paint, though. Doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. So many people on /ic/ make beautiful fucking art and *this* is the guy who becomes famous for taking a big fat diarrhea on a canvas. Make it make sense.

>>7168180
>Who said I liked Picasso?
Well, i didn't say that. It's a joke, anon.
But it's fine if you don't get it.

>I'm also not claiming to be better than this guy. I suck shit at art. I can draw at least as well as he can paint, though.
Pyw then, what the problem?

>So many people on /ic/ make beautiful fucking art and *this* is the guy who becomes famous for taking a big fat diarrhea on a canvas.
You can shit yourself and become famous neither. There a different of joy and fame, most of /ic/ doesn't even have a blog cuz not all of an artists is an attentionwhores

>op discovers expressionism (circa 2024)
It's like, automatically a step up from the farty anime girls and social media porn this place is sick with. Our grandparents lived through the urinal and we witnessed the manufactured outrage of taped wall-fruit, and you chose the last nigga who paints portraits and makes money off it to make your grand stand against.

>>7168173
Making it in the art world is more about the network you can maintain and the luck you have. Having artwork to show and sell is obligatory but academic style is not a sine qua non condition.
So yeah, that's his style, and Fillip Jenikae has his style and Rae Klein has hers and Nori Okawa has theirs...and they're all famous artists.
You don't like it? Does it rustle your jimmies? Alright, move on buddy. There are so much artists in this day and age, pick the ones you like, make artwork you like and quit that stupid nonsense rant. People had the same exact rant back in the days about Le Greco, Courbet, Monet or even Van Gogh... See? That's useless.
>picrel : some artwork you probably won't like but who the fuck cares?

>>7168173
you could be graduating 17 year old prodigy if you could paint like this.

>>7168173
>BREAKING NEWS: OP discovers money laundering

>>7168238
I didn't know women knew about this

>>7168173
The artist is also an indigenous Australian, and they tend to get a lot of handouts in the arts and such. He was likely given platforms that helped elevate him that others will not get the opportunity to have. I won't say his art is bad, because there's infinitely worse shit in galleries, and I'd prefer this in them than a women knitting from vagina yarn.

And honestly, looking at his work, there's a warm charm to them. I don't mind them.


Skill not matching imagination

How do you solve pic related? I can think up all these wonderful scenes that are are PP hardening, but after spending hours trying to draw it down, its flat and doesnt excite even a single neuron.

If you don't enjoy the act of drawing then you don't like drawing, it's that simple

>>7168414
unless you have extremely low expectations or always produce something of high quality, you do not simply enjoy the act of drawing. most people would not be content to just draw a bunch of lines or something on a paper and call it a day or draw for years with absolutely no improvement or even with clear regression.

>>7168419
nothing you said is an argument against his point

>>7168422
I'm critiquing the framework around OP's reply. in the strictest sense, virtually no one, not even OP, likes drawing per se. I don't mean this as an insult, but probably only actual retards and other low IQ people like drawing per se.

>>7168429
people love the act of drawing as children until their ego and self-consciousness gets in the way
kill your ego and learn to enjoy it again

>>7168410
I just grinded fundamentals for 10 years, and now I can draw anything I want.

You can do the same, if you also have 10 years.

>>7168433
>people love the act of drawing as children
don't have the statistics for it, but I would venture to say that of those children, they're all toddlers; and most toddlers wouldn't even qualify for that group. and those toddlers would still be low IQ.
>kill your ego
the ego's not the problem. if you don't have an ego - if that's truly even possible to achieve (and maybe it is) - I don't see where the motivation would come from to go from being a /beg/let to drawing admirable, academic figures and portraits, say. people want to accomplish things, not enjoy the act of drawing by itself. and there's nothing wrong with that, as dissatisfaction can push you to become great.

>>7168441
>those toddlers would still be low iq
they didn't suddenly gain a couple dozen iq points when they stopped drawing, they just discovered embarrassment/shame
>dissatisfaction can push you to become great
indeed, but the love of drawing comes before the need/want of improvement
if you only have the second, you'll burn out pointlessly

>>7168445
draw only a single 1 inch circumference circle on a white piece of paper with an HB pencil once a day for a year and get back to me.
>>7168449
>they didn't suddenly gain a couple dozen iq points when they stopped drawing
I'm not saying saying the relationship is causal, I'm just qualifying the group of people who actually like drawing without qualification, and toddlers would technically fall into the low IQ group I mentioned earlier.
>but the love of drawing comes before the need/want of improvement
again, almost no one really has this quality about them. you would be more accurate in saying that what many (not all) people have is a love of beauty and the desire to represent it in some art form. to the extent that people love a given drawing of theirs, for 99.999999% of them there's some number of qualifications: they accurately represented what they wanted to represent, they see improvements, they drew something today (when in the past they have been very lazy), someone else liked their drawing, etc. you throw a wrench into any of these things and they're upset - even if to a relatively minor degree.

>reading
What's your point, nigger OP? That people draw in order to see their imagination realized? That they need an incentive to continue? This is a given, you didn't need to make a thread about it. The thing is, plenty of people manage to do this without incredible difficulty and you don't seem to be one of them.
I drew crappy shit pretty often before I started taking art seriously, but often enough there was a diamond in the rough, and it's only by being "easy to please" and by being easily naturally motivated that I got to where I am now (people like my work, I like my work).
If you don't like it at least a little bit now you simply won't later.

>>7168469
> "I like Math"
> "Yet you don't like adding numbers the whole day, curious"

Anon, go outside. Take a walk and tell your sorrows to the forest. Be embraced by life and let it embrace you.
i hope you will find calmness and serenity

>>7168481
>>7168489
if my work looked 20% as good as what I imagine or even looked partially like the artists I do like then id like it. When it looks like flat childrens attempts at anime girls, I do not

>>7168499
>> "I like Math"
>> "Yet you don't like adding numbers the whole day, curious"
that's a (potentially) false equivalence, crodie. the OP I was replying to was not talking in broad terms, but said quite explicitly
>the act of drawing
so drawing per se, not broadly.

>>7168503
This is a big problem with drawlets that no one ever talks about. They start off with an ideal, a fixation based on a preexisting model, and can never properly emulate it (emulation is difficult), therefore never please themselves. Artists who got good almost invariably drew compulsively and got a kick out of doodling in their own style. They weren't fixated on an ideal beyond themselves, per se...obviously they wanted their drawings to look good and admired certain artists, but their expectations for what that means were quite a bit more flexible than the noob who think he's going to draw exactly like Kishimoto after 2 years (or 5 or 10) of hard practice.
Find enjoyment in simple pleasures. Stop trying and just draw sexy anime girls and draw something, anything.

>>7168514
I want to draw sexy anime girls, so I draw them, but they end up not sexy and then im sitting there dissatisfied until I get over it and repeat the same actions and emotions again, I mix it up between focusing on individual parts, figure drawing, copies, original works of course, but the result is the same. after around 2 years of doing this I made this thread.

Stop using per se, per se, as it makes you sound retarded per se, and takes away from your message per se even if its good, per se

>>7168522
>nigger OP niggering again, this time about "per se" (a phrase he used)
Man you're insufferable
Just give up. You clearly don't have a talent for it.

>>7168524
The guy spamming heads of old men and repeating per se every 2 sentences is not me retard, low iq subhuman post

>>7168527
And I'm not him. So you're also retarded. But I knew that because you made this thread.
If you want some real advice, open your mind to different prospects and find your own way of dong things. I honestly think this may be something individuals can't change about themselves though, some people are just too conventional for their own good. Animenigs are their own worst enemy. They just hate everything that isn't a hatchet-faced babe with big bug eyes. That's a hard way to be artistically, as much as it is enjoyable to consume.

As an absolute beginner, it can be hard to have fun, sort of like when you're learning a complicated game and struggling with the controls, and are spending more time fighting with your inability to play than with the game, however, this stage is very very brief, and if you draw for even a month consistently, you should be able to get over this initial hump to the point where you can kind of doodle and make things you like.

If you aren't improving at all, you're retarded. Not insult retarded, learning disability retarded. Good news though, if you're actually retarded, you wouldn't have the self awareness to be frustrated by your lack of ability and you'd be working on your very own Sonichu comic.

If you are improving at a reasonable rate, but are just childishly frustrated at your inability to be instantly skilled, then you're just emotionally stunted.

>>7168522
>I mix it up between focusing on individual parts, figure drawing, copies, original works of course, but the result is the same. after around 2 years of doing this I made this thread
I do not mean to be rude, but then obviously the changes you've tried to make aren't enough if you are quite literally getting the exact same results with no improvements; and I doubt you have exhausted the number of changes you could make to your drawing regimen.
>Stop using per se
I will use it as I see fit. if you don't like it, so be it.

>>7168530
Open your mind to what exactly? Any advice piece from anyone whos made it is to draw the things you like, only few rabid subhumans on IC get obsessed with copying oldmens boomer crusted assholes as a cope to prevent them actually having to try and make something new

>>7168532
it was cool early on, its been 2 years and it is barely better, I can put a head into a correct direction and use perspective for buildings, I still cant draw something a sexy anime girl in a condescending attitude from a lewd angle

>>7168538
"2 years" or "1 day every other week with maybe a month here or there where I took it seriously" for 2 years.

>>7168540
I drew for 1.5ish hours for an entire year no days off regardless what time mood or state I was in, can dump this thread to bump limit with my works, its all shit.

Now ive slowed down significantly as the result is basically the same

>>7168538
>Open your mind to what exactly? Any advice piece from anyone whos made it is to draw the things you like
It is actually extremely hard to imitate an entire style convincingly. Like insanely fucking stupidly difficult. Look at the hacks drawing Dragon Ball and Boruto now - who are very skilled hacks by the way - and see what I mean. It's not just a matter of copying one or two drawings, you have to be able to draw anything and everything in a style that is unnatural to you, with facility. The JP artists you're slaving over just naturally draw that way. Some westerners have an inclination for it too, invariably bringing their own personal touch nevertheless.
It's the Fixation that kills the creative spirit. If you're not having luck doing mass-culture anime style after 2 years, change your damn strategy, open your mind, broaden your horizons. There's all kinds of interesting art out there beyond the dichotomy of "crusty old boomers" and anime/porno.
But again, I don't know if "openness" is something one can force in oneself, either. So whatever, all I have to say on the subject.

>>7168545
This was my last and best (lol) public piece ive uploaded. Doesnt attract me at all and its not from high standards as even uncoloured rough scribbles from artists I like can arouse me, not my own stuff though and its so far away from where id be happy

>>7168552
You're demonstrating a real lack of understanding of art on just about every level, spiritually, artistically, and intellectually

Inspid subject, weak skill for someone who ostensibly drew for a year straight, and a lack of understanding of art to think that statement about scribbles is sensible.

You either need to self evaluate or find a better use for your time. This is the most positive I could make this post after several rewrites.

>>7168563
or he needs to find a good mentor

>>7168563
What exactly was the point of pmw here, was it to just prove i wasnt howieng into the void as bait

>>7168563
>weak skill for someone who ostensibly drew for a year straight
Why exactly do you guys think drawing for 22 days of real time (starting from total 0) should *necessarily* amount to more "skill" than what is shown there? There's a mountain of evidence to the contrary. I'd say OP is pretty typical if anything.

>>7168568
That and also I was hoping you'd have something that demonstrated a creative spark worth cultivating that I could encourage.

>>7168572
A year of drawing should net you some basic understanding of from and anatomy at least.

Also, real time isn't as important as days drawn, provided you're drawing for more than just a moment. You get really significant diminishing returns past the 2 or 3 hour mark, and there's only so much you can learn per sleep cycle. 8 hours a day certainly beats 2 hours a day, but by no where near as much as four times. Rested exp exists irl.

>>7168581
The whole "raw hours in = raw progress" belief sacred to /ic/ orthodoxy is just really fundamentally wrong, is all. People learn at different rates. Starkly different rates, frankly, based on a number of difficult-to-quantify variables. There's no "should," only "is."

>>7168410
Well, part of the enjoyment I get from it is that I feel I'm improving. It's like hitting a new weight or rep limit while exercising - you can see your improvement, or feel it at least.
So the satisfaction doesn't just come from the end products, but from the personal growth achieved through them.

>>7168410
I'm not an artist, OP. I am a pilgrim, trying to teach myself for the sake of growing, though what motivates me is pure envy.

First step, figure out what you want out of it. Is it drawing for personal joy, for selling like a scummy artist, or for professional purposes?

Second, it's think about what kind of person you are. Somebody carefree that finds everything fun, or someone pessimistic with high standards. Most likely you are the latter.

Since you are the latter, I tell you that what you need is a method, with clear progression, clear instruction. You may want to avoid it, but you need some mathematical thinking, in order to correctly develop visualization.

You absolutely need to learn formal perspective. Google the perspective course on Handprint, because that's the only thing I have found that satisfies this manner of learning. It's hard to digest, but the important thing is not the result, not the drawing, but the mental skill of visualizing.

Next, you will have to develop Observation, you have to analize angles in things, you will have to deduce how plants grow, how muscles move bones, how animals got their shapes, that sort of insight.

It's absolutely not an easy path, but may be the only one in which you can see yourself building up your skillset, as opposed to endless trial and error developing muscle memory.

Art shouldn't be a profession, it should be a skill for personal expression.

>>7168532
>this stage is very brief
Blatant lies. Everyone has standards, and the more shitty the person, the higher the standards and the more intolerable his bad art. What you suggest, what most artists suggest about drawing every day for a month etc, is plain trial and error, and if you don't have the inherent talent to make corrections you don't improve.

This is why this sort of people need a structured method, they need the skill to make corrections, that's the very first step, and making them dig into drawing whatever is skipping that step. Can't you tell how many artists end up doing the same furry bullshit with tiger Tony's face? Copying delivers you there, mindless practice delivers you there. There are a lot of different people with different mindsets, not all can learn art the same way.

>>7168552
This is what is wrong with your drawing.
>Perspective. The sofa has a forced 2 point perspective that makes it look flat
>The character figure is a 3D compound object with each of its sections should be in a different perspective angle
>You haven't taken into consideration effects from the camera's distance and field of view.
>Anatomy. You haven't considered the anatomic landmarks in a human body. Most of what is available of artistic education doesn't focus on these.
>Proportions. Each section of the body should have a defined length in relation to other parts, and all these pieces would be modified by perspective as well.
>Facial expression. Even though anime is stylized and simplified, you must study the anatomy of the face and the configuration of facial expressions. Very tough subject, minor mistakes have deep impact because of how our brains are wired to see faces, same with hands.
Don't be discouraged by what people here say. I fucking hate artists. Before calling myself an artist, I would call myself a doctor, and before calling myself a doctor, I would call myself a NEET. You are your own limit, OP. Do what you will without care for anything else, and then you will find the time to improve what you really want to improve in your life.

>>7168505
>>7168469
>draw nothing but circles on a white sheet of paper for a year
Yeah no shit that's not fun

>>7168522
Your motives are as shallow as your interests. No wonder you don't enjoy creating.

>>7168653
>Yeah no shit that's not fun
see, someone gets it

>>7168410
I look at the works of my favorite artist.

>>7168410
>How do you solve pic related?
Stop trying to run before being able to crawl or you'll always get predictably dissapointed when you can't do the former.
You need to have a reachable and realistic goal instead of that pipedream you call a "beautiful piece". As a novice you won't be able to draw a good background or a nice figure, because you don't understand perspective nor anatomy, so maybe start with boxy buildings and cartoons. This is a realistic goal that will fulfill your motivation and a necessary step in your artistic journey.

>>7168657
With all due respect, you're retarded if you actually think that's what drawing's about. That's like telling someone who likes to play the guitar to only repeat the same cord for a year. If you think of drawing as a dull and repetitive task that's probably why you fail to understand how people genuinely enjoy it. Some people (you) are too result oriented and alienated from the idea of play. The fun part is not if you use the tool, but how you use it. You choose to see the pen and paper as a means to an end and refuse the possibility that there's something to enjoy about the process. Your lack of curiosity and imagination is why you're not understanding what makes drawing enjoyable

>>7168653
ike' coom anon there isnt much more to say there, you must be able to understand that

>>7168637
>Before calling myself an artist, I would call myself a doctor, and before calling myself a doctor, I would call myself a NEET.
I really like this, dont consider myself an artist at all as none of the "art" i make I like nor does anyone else. Youve given a lot of advice there but if you had to pick 1 looking at my piece which would it be, as its a bit aimless for me to hop between all of those

>>7168673
>If you think of drawing as a dull and repetitive task
I don't. just illustrating a point, homegirl.

>>7168676
Other anon here, but your number one shortcoming is your lack of intent behind the artwork. What is she doing on the couch, who is she looking at, what is she feeling, why is she making this pose? If you want to become good at erotica you must understand why something is hot. And it's not just the physical. It's not the big boobs, not the wide hips, not the skimpy outfit. It's about the idea you're selling, the story you are telling. That's your great strength and something no one can take from you. Drawing is about observing the world to gain a better understanding of it. Go out and experience life. Capture the essence of it in your work.

>>7168410
Learn to observe, do blind drawing.

>>7168682
And what point would that be? That drawing is inherently unfun? You're wrong about that and your point is retarded

>>7168676
Well you must decide.

You want to make great looking art? Invest time in perspective.

You want to make sexy girls to wank to? Invest time in anatomy. Use medical books first, such as Netter's Atlas of Anatomy. Measure parts, draw ratios, experiment ratios that seem more appealing.

Do this first, when you see progress, start the next skill and gain momentum

>>7168685
>And what point would that be?>>7168429

>>7168687
For someone believing himself high IQ, you display a lack of basic reading comprehension and conversational skills. My previous response already dismantled your poor argument and addressed the core issue behind your beliefs. But to put it in simpler terms - you're too far up your own head

>>7168692
>For someone believing himself high IQ
never took an IQ test, but wouldn't be surprised if it were average
>My previous response already dismantled your poor argument and addressed the core issue behind your belief
perhaps we can agree to disagree then

>>7168686
>You want to make sexy girls to wank to?
yes, I will check out those books then. How far can you get 'imitating' anatomy without really understanding it? My most 'appealing' works are mostly imitating an already stylized anatomy piece, when I try to plan it fundamentally it normally turns out flat

>>7168683
I have many scenarios that I'd love to bring to life but are ruined by my poor skill, perhaps I should just try them anyway

>>7168694
you've completely stopped using per se, per se which is nice anon. If you posted coom pics instead of old men I'd find you more compelling

>>7168701
I already pmw, if you care to critique or improve it in anyway id be happy to see it

this is just a conversation of internal motivation and external motivations, external motivation is good for short term stuff (reaching small goals or avoiding danger) but are unsustainable for longer periods because you constantly need to satisfy that motivation by getting constant dopamine hits while internal motivations are great for long term hobbies and passions because you keep doing them consistently because the act of engaging with those things are enjoyable to you

>>7168908
yeah, i was going to give a proper answer but looking the comments seems to be a lot of close minded faggots, so i pass. Sad for them that can't draw something and be happy about it, they failed to control the ego.

>>7168908
>intrinsic motivation
>motivated to perform an activity for its own sake
it's rather curious how such a phrase caught on in English, as it's simply a lie: nothing is done for its own sake.

>>7168696
>you've completely stopped using per se, per se which is nice anon
you might not want to get your hopes up. it's in my back pocket, waiting for the right prompt
>If you posted coom pics instead of old men I'd find you more compelling
respectfully, to cater to coomers is to wander off the straight and narrow

>>7168930
youre right as >>7168963 shows, people are actually mentally handicapped or maliciously ignorant

>>7168980
I thought you didn't use chans, feeling bored lately?


yup. the second you turn 24, if you try to put a pencil to paper to draw the graphite disintegrates. it's quite literally impossible to draw past 24.

yup, that's why the pen and paper asked for my id before I could use them

>>7168473
Stop being a fucking thread wasting nigger faggot and fucking draw

>>7168473
Yes your only use now is paying taxes so I can draw on neetbucks.

Don't matter how old you are, it only matters if you have The Spark or not.

Of course, people with The Spark naturually start drawing casually at a young age.

>>7168549
Before time began, there was... the cube. We know not where it comes from, only that it holds the power to create worlds, and fill them with life

>>7168588
>Transformers came to earth in search for the all spark
>Uhhh actually the transformers have been in earth since forever and actually fought in the Napoleonic wars and revolutionary war and world wars :)

>>7168473
Van Gogh didn't start until he was in his late 20s.

>>7168473
Depends on what you want. If it's for personal fulfilment, then it doesn't matter when you start, you can start when you're 80 with parkinsons, just do your best or whatever.

If it's to earn money, then the longer you put it off, the longer it'll take you to get to a level where you can earn money from it. It can sometimes take 10 years to get to a decent level for it.

So in your case? No, you're not too old.

Your brain has lost it's learning capability after 25, it's over. Neuroplasticity is now halted. Your losing brain cells every month until death after 25. You have 1 year left, so might as well give up.

Once you're 34, you'll realize how young you actually were at 24, and you'll be kicking yourself for not drawing. The same will happen at 44, and this process will keep repeating so long as you continue to not draw. In other words: DRAW, MOTHERFUCKER!!!!

>>7168473
The person who drew this started drawing at 28, so no You arent too late

>>7169028
The way he draws hair is god tier and of course it is, he worked as a hairdresser for years before he became a mangaka. That's what it means to build a visual library.

>>7168473
I started when i was older then that, I don't draw very much either so if you put in the time and effort you will be much better then me. I don't really know how high your bar and expectations are.

>>7168473
31 here, Id be super happy if I had started at 24 and had already 7 years of mileage under my belt. 24 is young af bro, most people are still wasting time in uni at that age and hasnt started living yet. Just pick the pencil, your future self will thank you

>>7168473
if there is passion, drive and determination then there is hope


So it's all literally just a popularity contest
You practice and study so you can become better at drawing so more people can be impressed and your art can appeal to a wider range of audience
Whoever has the most patreon subscribers and followers is better

yes i did read your entire post in walter jr's voice


Why do internet artists hate lineweight

Glass dip pens were invented by satan himself to deter growing artists from conveniently using line-weight in their art I swear to god.

What about this process seems satisfying or productive, use a normal ink dip pen w nice flex and line variations please. I’m not even saying this out of hate or anything I genuinely want you to know what your missing out on please, better yet get a felt tip brush pen nip please. I don’t hate you or the person in this photo I want to save you please.

>sees 1 artist make a tweet
>Why do all artists hate this thing?
ngmi

>>7168628
It’s not all, it’s just that very specific but large group of instagram/tiktok/twitter artists that post sketchbook tours and talk about markers and stuff


ITT Design something using an object in your house.

Take a photo of any everyday object from your house and design something out of it. (Vehicles, Spacecraft, Robots, Character, Costumes, etc.)

Other Challenges you might love:
Moai Challenge >>7092050
Clock Challenge >>7156547

>>7168525
Sounds like fun! Ill give it a try tomorrow!

>>7168525
My creativity is a bit low but I couldn't think of anything better than a retractable buzzsaw cause it was circular

>>7168626
Gotta be careful this funky bot doesn't cut through the pockets!

>>7168525
Sorry my grinding loomis heads didn't train me for that


Last week, despite your discouragement, I reflected on ways to succeed and discovered sculpting as a lucrative avenue, leveraging my 2D skills effectively in 3D. Now, I'm considering creating models, following UDIM's pipeline for game characters, and crafting nude mods using Maya. To maximize exposure and client acquisition, where should I post my work and obtain clients? Also, do any of you even know how to sculpt?

>>7168668
>Also, do any of you even know how to sculpt?
yes, but there's a board dedicated for that >>/3/

>>7168681
Oh nice even over there they're in beg lvl quality, idk, whenever I come over here despite the trolling it's always fun to know I'm better than y'all.

>>7168668
pretty good both 3d and 2d, 3 hours is extremely fast for a textured sculpt tho, im curious to how you accomplished that, you,ve got the work flow of a god

>>7168668
post on artstation, they have joblistings too. find companies you think would hire you and send them your portfolio in a nicely worded email.
I sculpted a bit over decade ago but lost interest.

>>7168892
Thanks... The sculpt itself was incredibly simple not worrying about facial details eyes, nose, ears, hair, lashes, brows, sped it up quite a bit. Then just threw in alphas for the wet looking texture, and then polypainted it (using just base colors), bpr render it, then touched up in photoshop. While this would obviously never work in a UDIM's pipeline, this is just a concept piece to see how the character would look in a 3D world possibly in engine with ao, lighting, etc. it's surprisingly fast and quite easy once you get down the method!

>>7169469
ah nice, that makes a lot of sense, still impressive nonetheless for the job it set out to do

>>7168698
>despite the trolling it's always fun to know I'm better than y'all.
Nah, this board is filled with lurking pros, they simply don't post their work here. I thought the same when I was a newfag because you can only see /beg/s work. But you're still good no doubt about that.


What are the strangest commissions you receive from people?

>>7168753
ez thigh money. I've only done one semi-commission and that was for a character from monster prom that I did for like 5 euro. After that I haven't tried to get commissions since then.

>>7168753
Ppl have comm’d me to make sh art of them cutting themselves (i dont mind it though)
Prob gay prositute porn of their oc was the strangest one for me.
Its more difficult when someone overweight asks to draw them, not sure if youre supposed to draw them overweight or more how u typically draw ppl

>>7168753
>unbirthing
>gay shit
>scat
Turned them down and we went with something less fucked up

>>7168770
The thing is, you draw them husky. Basically the equivalent of a “dad body”. That’s the safest route

>>7168770
You draw them as a series of spheres and make sure to draw an arrow to point out their tiny penis. They paid for accuracy after all.

>>7168753
fireflyfags really are crazy third worlders

I have done over 50 commissions so far and I still have no horror stories to share. I turned down some overdesigned OCs that would take forever to draw but that's it.

>>7168753
pedo shit but no sex, since there is no sex they think that they have like a free pass or something to ask about them, they just dont care. For example one ask about edit some image with the focus on the feets, yeah also a feet faggot, and gives images to make them look like real life teens, it was a internet image i remember but the spirit is there.
Also for some reason the feet faggots are like in two zones: in one they like the feet detailed but smooth and clean like a sculpt, perfectly aligned with the traditional ideal of beauty, and in the other is not about the beauty of the shape but all about the fat, the wrinkles, so they like the most fat feets they can get with the most wrinkles the more the better the more deformed by skin the better, absolutely disgusting.

More than that... the usual weirdo fetishes, you know, like inflation, or gigantic breasts, ugly to do because they are not about any kind of appealing but about the concept, so you can have literally a ball with hands and feets and they like that. I always refuse to do those, there's no point, you gain zero from that, first you work with bad mood, second the image is not worth for you at all unless you are already into the fetishes, third the image dont serve any purpose you can't use it for gain followers because no one will reach for that and even more if is not your topic in first place, so should be private commissions, and since are private and not your liking you could rise the prices a lot and probably they will leave anyway after that, because they appear in first place because of the prices. So yeah.

Ah i remember to some guys asking for drawing but for real girls, they have like folders and want those, i encounter 3 scenarios of that:
-the person has 1 girl in the folder, they said is related to them, put it girlfriend, wife, friend.
-they have several girls obviously a stalker.
-the person claims to be him(her)self.
in all of course there is no way to know if that's true.

>>7169014
ah, i remember now others.
There is thing set of fetishes that i can just resume in "ball related fetishes", is like, anything related to balls, so for example, ballons, like, characters interacting with ballons, thats one thing, another is the character BEING the actual ballon, so that's related with the inflation fetish. There is "balls", like, a ball, and the character is the ball... image a ball that have a character printed, so the character of course looks deformed according to the shape of the ball, yeah that...

I remember also many years ago a guy who has this... two head fetish, it was just 2 characters that shared the same body, and they usually talk between them and that's it, like that simpsons episode.

>>7169014
What about hand faggots? Viewing hands and fingers in the same freak perverted way as armpitfags? Do those handfags even exist? Completely unironically.
I feel like they're even rarer than diaper cubfags

>>7169065
I think it's more common for women

>>7168753
he's commissioning multiple body parts and then combining them like Exodia

>>7168753
>pic
Is it just me or it's weird to single out the client for odd, but ultimately harmless request?

>>7168753
i know ppl request weird shit but this post screams fake dm for updoots

>>7168771
No WAY you are putting gay shit on the same level as unbirthing and scat. Come on bro

>>7168771
damn you're really still out here avatarfagging as a league of legends character lol.

>>7170433
no one tell this nigga why gays randomly get food poisoning syndrome.


Can AI art be referenced or is it filled with subtle mistakes?

>>7168785
I can tell when artists use it even in trad.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6lGBV5<wbr>NoLT/?hl=en

>>7168792
>https://www.instagram.com/p/C6lGBV<wbr>5NoLT/?hl=en
Are you saying she's using AI? How can you tell? Also why is she acting like "that" in the video? Goddamn I hate these people.

>>7168797
Not him but I think she's using an offscreen reference she prompted from ai and pretending like she's doing imagination drawing. I can't describe it exactly but I can also sense the ai in that image. Generically good composition, soulless, narratively nonsensical

>>7168797
First it's a gut/intuition reaction, I have painted for well over a decade, know art and artists well, I've stress tested AI too(10k+ gens) This has more in common with generative AI than human art, even though they painted it, they've copied AI tells.

The lighting is very real "photo/3d" like on totoro, including some parts lit in unappealing ways(abrupt harsh line in the middle of the chest at the 3rd window) that an artist considering the form would not do, the melty window shapes are also unusual for someone skilled enough to paint real light like that from imagination...

Totoro's design. His hand(should be claws no?) is strange and very amateur looking. There is also an issue with the opposite hand... where is it? why is the arm so long on the left of the image? common AI mistake.

The environment design. That "bridge"? with random poles that do nothing.
The fence, broken up, random, tilts abruptly to the right of the boy, unappealing, like a tangent, why would an artist as skilled as this do that? they wouldn't. A random set of stairs on the left wtf? the house melting into the hill too, with some odd foliage jutting out of it.

The choice in composition, it' not completely bad, but it's pretty straight on, very much like what you get when asking for a painting of a boy looking at totoro without specifying any pose. also his outfit, AI loves giving these boys white shirts and a backpack without specifying it in the prompt.

The artist's* past paintings looking completely different too, this is a huge departure.

*is it really her or some dude faking the whole thing? I looked at quite a few videos, and none show her doing any lines or brush strokes for more than a second or two...

>>7168785
you shouldn't reference from people either. some of them are defective and look ugly. Only reference from Michelangelo's David and nothing else. Other "human" form is impure and degenerate, full of monkey genes.

>>7168797
NTA but that picture is just visually unappealing.
The colors don't mesh well neither does the overall composition or the construction especially on that house which looks super tiny for that perspective.
It's either really bad art with good-ish fundamentals or AI assisted. Pick your poison.
I'd go with AI too given the inconsistency between her rendering and perspective. But it could also be that she's phoning it in (same thing when you think about it).

>>7168785
depends on your skill level. it can be a similar exercise to fixing/critiquing a bad piece. Artist in pic related merged two AI images which the final product seems pretty neat and shows he is decently skilled, but it can be a crutch and restrict your creativity if your not careful.

>>7168785
Referenced for what? AI was trained on photos and artworks. If you need reference to understand how something is put together, or what it looks like from a particular point of view or under certain lighting conditions, you might as well look at the real thing if at all possible, or else study good (unedited) photographs. I you want to develop your aesthetic sensibilities or learn how to work in a particular medium, study the works of the masters.

The only reason to use AI is to cut corners; to outsource your creativity, aesthetics, design, composition and rendering to a machine. A real artist would never do this. This is the path of someone who wants the rewards and accolades without the process of actually doing the work. It is a shortcut and the person using it does not learn anything or develop any skills.

And yes, AI images are filled with subtle mistakes and "irrationalities." If your question is sincere, the answer is no.

using AI = getting cucked. <br>being a slave to reference = getting cucked too.

>>7168785
>or is it filled with subtle mistakes
Gee, anon. One wonders.

>>7168785
this "use ai as reference" bullshit is just another way for ai people to try and get their foot in the door. Be stubborn, don't give them an inch, fuck off slopmongers.

I've used Bing for color studies and color ideas, it was useful for that before they banned and blocked everything and made the engine produce worst quality images. For anatomy or anything with perspective is a terrible tool.

It was a good tool to make color studies and experiments quickly, now it's gone.

Just don't copy the actual elements, none of them.

>>7168863
>flip + lasso + liquify + soft eraser
this is more rote graphic design than "real" art
this requires 0 talent and hardly any creativity...

>>7169004
>"real" art
What is "real" art?

>>7169055
in this board's case it's usually a drawing
or artwork that requires some form of vision, creativity and craftsmanship and usually relays some interesting information through visuals

I put "real" in quotations to avoid triggering anons like you but graphic design does have its own board >>/gd/ and most of the posts there unironically have more artistic input than that pic which looks like a 14 year old's first time using prompts/photoshop thinking they're deep

A lot of AI is self-evidently pretty convincing at this point, such that it can fool even a careful observer, and it's pretty cringey to pretend there's some special sauce that separates an AI image from, say, a photograph. Yes, you can use it as a reference, just don't be a slave to it and use other references as well. But that's what you always should have been doing with photo ref anyway.

>>7169115
Saw this: https://cara.app/explore
and thought it was AI at first.

>>7169115
>such that it can fool even a careful observer
How would you know? You're obviously not one.

>>7169004
yeah I just think there cool pics I can attach to my schizo posts on /x/

>>7168792
its pretty obvious just from how someone acts if what they drew is AI. Like if they're so amazed at what they just made as if they're seeing it for the first time or had no idea what it would look like at the end, or they desperately want attention for drawing something great.

>>7168792
so can you really just make fake videos pretending to draw and make money that way? Its that easy?

>>7169345
attach a mid to high attractive woman to them and you my friend have struck gold

>>7169345
people already do that. just draw light enough and overexpose so the camera can't see the light pencil or non-photo blue and it tricks normies into thinking you can do a finished ink with no sketch. tons of "photorealistic" rendering drawings are done this way too

>>7168785
If you understand anatomy and perspective well enough, then sure.
If you're /beg/ then stay the fuck away from AI until you know what the fuck you're doing.

>>7168785
sounds like a crutch for lazy, unimaginative retards
there is literally zero point in doing so

>>7168785
>AI does pencil drawing
It's so over for crosshatching 3rd world fags.

I want to use ai for backgrounds, like this >>7168987
>>7168989
>>7168991
and then paint over them so I copy the composition and colors. Not because I can't draw, but because I am creative and I don't want to spend hours deciding where to put clouds.

>>7170818
meant to write
>but because I am uncreative

>>7170818
Depends on the style, I found that if I want the stylized cartoon style Bing won't generate good backgrounds if they don't feature some characters. The perspective is also all wrong, it's very limiting tech. Good for color picking, I learn a lot actually, it gives me ideas of how to digitally paint.

>>7171709
>Bing
Install local stable diffusion for real work. Digital editing and detailing in img2img is the win.

Bad color
Bad lighting
Bad composition
Bad texture
Bad details
Bad taste

Do you want to absorb this into your work? Do you want to be accused of being a bot because everybody knows what the typical machine output looks like? Do you have absolutely no integrity as an artist? Yeah? Copy ai

>>7168785
AI art tend to have the same composition, got plenty of small detail mistakes, cut off at weird points, hide limbs, repeat the same rendering, have no sense of perspective/depth, anatomy is passable sometimes but mostly wrong.
Learn to create your own references and don't bother drawing from AI.

>>7168785
if its not on paper or canvas it isn't art, period

>>7168785
CAN'T THIS FAGGOTS JUST LOOK LIKE, EVERYWHERE??, LIKE, NIGGA JUST LOOK A PHOTO, NIGGA JUST LOOK AT PEOPLE LOOK AT YOURSELF THEY ARE RIGHT THERE

>>7169345
yes but there's easier money to be made provided you're a woman

>>7168785
Think about it this way - you've got thousands upon thousands of images to refer to from professionals that you can trust. Why would you ever trust the AI to get it right? Especially when it starts to feed off itself by means of scraping sites littered with generative AI imagery?

If you can be bothered to spend hours at a time looking at art, it should be art from actual artists that actually had something in mind, not an algorithm spit out by a computer.As you can see with

>>7168830

Artists are better at detecting this than you might think.

>>7168792
>1 till 100
Very good, sir. I rate 99. Minus one for no bob and vagene

>>7168830
If you just scroll down her instagram she has a video showing her using ai as reference. She definitely does it.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CkvTmgu<wbr>DmRL/

If you scroll back before august 2022 her work is very different but still traditional.

I also think she started using a projector at some point because a lot of her process videos have the wrong proportions and suddenly get fixed halfway through.

I think she was basically maxed out at perma beg but had thousands of hours using trad materials so she is good at combining ai + projector + traditional.

Honestly this is one of the first things I thought about for traditional artists benefitting when i saw ai.

>>7168785
I am a complete beg and I made this with AI to reference from. Is it OK?

>>7178977
I mean is it ok to reference from if you are a complete beg?

>>7178977
I am not going to show off AI referenced image to other people I just want to practice without referencing porn.

>>7168785
If you're going to use references, why not? You're already using somewhat of a crutch instead of fully learning your subject and being able to pull from knowledge.

>>7168785
Learn from life and photography.


anons, what do you draw when you only got 15 to 20 minutes?

Studies take me over an hour, working on my own projects is usually a whole afternoon endevour.

But what am I supposed to do when I sit around at the bus stop or when there's still a two dozen minutes left in the lunch break? Situations like that leave me feeling like I wanna draw, I just don't know what I would in the short period of time

>>7168721
Just do scribbles with a pen. Pick a random subject, and just let your mind and pen wonder. Or you could try quick observational drawings, though I personally find that shit kinda cringe.

>>7168721
if a study takes over an hour then cut it into 4 or more pieces, otherwise you could go outside and sketch whatever you see

>>7168721
Anything that comes to mind, I’ve drawn antatomy, things in my environment, Spiders, peoples noses, a particulary cool looking flower or part of a building.

Main thing is that you don’t take it too seriously when you begin sketching. Try and draw whatever and if you are feeling it then you can maybe go further with it when you got more time.

>>7168721
I work at Mcdonalds and I get 20 minuets lunch break. so I draw on a napkin. usually I draw a burger or something

DALL·E 2023-10-17 16.30.32 - anime girl eating a burger.png

Gestures, they take like a minute and a half so I could do a bunch of them when I don't have time

>>7168721
I used to draw college girls' asses back in Uni when I'm bored, took me couple of minutes each time.

>>7168733
just burgers? did you grind hundreds of burgers anon?

>>7168757
increbily based i kneel

>>7168721
>>7168721
>>7168721
>What's in front of you to improve observation
>Something you've been studying earlier to test things out
>Some character you like to feel engaged
>For maximum adrenaline, draw straight porn. At front of everyone.

I myself am developing the habit to draw or doodle something during my dev dailies that take around 15 minutes just after I wake up. Although I can't maintain consistency because something explodes at my job anyway.

>>7168721
I'll be honest. I usually don't bother. Everything I work on these days is bigger and more complex, so trying to come up with something to draw in such a limited time feels like a waste of energy.

When I was younger I used to do a lot more casual sketching.


Modern Art

Da Vinki

Let`s say that i hypothetically rob a kindergarten and acquire all the drawings, how exactly do i sell them at an auction? Asking for a friend.

Anonymous

>>7168924
don't steal your classmates drawing anon

instead of selling the drawings just wait a while and bring the drawings back but pretend you retrieved them from a "thief". maybe beat up a homeless guy and drag him in as the culprit. you'll be drowning in milf pussy

Da Vinki

If i did that the teachers would put me on a pedastal.

Anonymous

>>7168924
You need to make a story, it doesn't matter if the art reflects that story. For example add a figure to that pentagon and it could express how we are always trying to seek adventure from out homes, cities and lives.

Da Vinki

It represents how we are constrained and limited by our modern culture and how individuals are unable to express themselves freely. The pentagon surrounding the man is a figurative one.


how to draw like kim jung gi

Anonymous

Annon how do I draw like the great Kim Jung gi

Yes I know practice but like HOW do I practice

trace, draw from reference, draw from memory<br>every single one of his drawings, twice or more

You’re one of “those”….

How much supreme do you own?

>>7169038
Tbh this is all you need to do.

That’s how anyone can copy a style. Granted it becomes your own style at that point because it isn’t one for one anymore.
Gi focused alot on anatomy and drawing that a lot. He didn’t draw those drawings he’s known for most of the time. He drew body parts from different angles.

So just draw from different angles.

Can you already be drawing on this level, at 16 years old?
No?
Well tough luck pal, guess you don't have Gi's talent.
Same way in there being no point trying to start tennis now hoping you'll catch up to Federer.

>>7169036
post your attempts at copying that drawing and I'll try to judge which fundamentals you are lacking

>>7169048
Tell that to all the older art artists drawing like this for first year or two of drawing.

Very brain rot way of thinking.

>>7169050
This is the last thing I drew

Tbh completely fair in horrible at drawing real people or body parts

And I usually draw monsters lol

>>7169048
>talent

Talent is only talent because you practice. Everyone is shit at first.

>>7169070
those drips on the bottom look nice anon

>>7169083
Thanks pookie

Trying to transition into drawing more things and expand but I’m kinda hardheaded in the struggle of progressing into drawing people and stuff

>>7169070
Sounds like you answered your own question annon

Also cool monster thing

>>7169036
>Yes I know practice but like HOW do I practice
All of your time for the rest of your life. What exactly are you expecting here? KJG had drawn for thousands and thousands of hours before he had even stopped being a teen. Have you done that? Then you're fooling yourself by thinking you can draw like KJG. How about you succeed at drawing like yourself.

>>7169036
I can't even imagine how to draw all the random shit KJG draws. Its easy to draw anything if everything you draw looks good. If I tried this, what are the chances I come up with "ok I'm going to draw 4 people, an old man, a pregnant woman in a green dress, an old lady with a gun, a kid, and then I'm going to draw a dog over here". It takes days to come up with one idea.

If you just draw random things in the moment without planning, then you literally have NO COMPOSITION, yet his stuff clearly has composition. He's drawing randomly but it looks good? So its not random??? Then you are relying on your natural creativity which is genetic.

Did KJG construct everything in this drawing? Did he use a separate reference for every single person, every single piece of clothing, the chainsaw, the dogs? Is there a reference out there of a pregnant woman holding a gun? I have never seen him erase something, so he just draws everything the first time like he memorized it before hand. How can you learn to do that? That's like walking down the street remembering details like a time traveller and stepping out of the way when a car would have splashed water on you. I would spend an hour on one person in this drawing looking at references learning how to draw it for the first time because if you want to draw something original and dynamic then it has to be new.

>>7169036
Chinchun gi?
That's not the president of north Korea?

>>7169048
Kim said he was doing memory drawings since Kindergarten.

He would try to draw playground slides from imagination, realize he couldn't do it, then at school he'd study how to do it. Then he'd go home and continue drawing full-fledged perspective scenes.

Probably 0 people on /ic/ had that level of devotion back in kindergarten, much less keeping it up for their whole lives

>>7169475
>Probably 0 people on /ic/ had that level of devotion back in kindergarten
I did, but towards lego...

>>7169036
You probably came to the worst place to ask for advice because as you can see

People are relatively really annoying and sheltered to the point where asking for help or advice leads to just crucifying someone for not doing “enough” or having enough “talent”

I mean this not to be a dick but maybe you should ask reddit.

Plus most people on this board can’t draw for shit let alone anything that isn’t anime pussy or furry shit.

>>7169423
Touch grass, it isn’t that serious.

KJG said he would see something on his way to work, draw it when he got to work, the next day he'd see that thing again and notice what he got wrong and draw it again to correct it, repeat<br>So do lots of master studies and memory drawings. Oh and I think he said he would sit on the second floor of coffee shops and draw people looking down at them to help with perspective.

>>7169036
Understand fisheye perspective and you'll begin to get it. You can only learn this by drawing from life as this is how your eyes perceive things, focus on your peripheral and view a scene from one angle only when drawing. Drawing boxes helps but you need to perceive the space itself, this is why exercises where you rotate a box are so important. Peter Han and Krenz Cushart have some exercises that help with this. It should be intuitive.

>>7169036
Like >>7169038 said. Train, train, train!

>>7169036
Pick a pen or a brush pen and draw without any thought or general idea.

>>7169036
Memorize things.

Kim said he memorizes every single parts in a car. Thats how he draws without reference.

Also dont care about being super anatomically correct. Real people arent anatomically correct anyways.

Also watch everything in your life with attention to detail. Think that you will draw it later from memory. Do this on literally everything you see.

Learn perspective and practice until you are able to make accurate perspective without guided lines

>>7169038
How did he draw from memory that girl shitting in the toilet?
Serious question no cap fr fr


Bluesky / bsky social media

Now that the dust has been settled how's bluesky in terms of networking and visibility?

>>7169061
they're stilling rolling out updates like dms and video so I wouldn't bother yet

already dead and irrelevant like threads.

It was a mistake to make it "secret club invite only", that killed the hype for normies, and thus, normies never came
It's 90% artist there
So, for "network and visibility", you will be only getting other artists that want network and visibility.
It's like a giant art discord in twitter format, a massive circlejerk of artist, but not the good kind.
Because all artist there are just people that wanted to be big on twitter and failed

>>7169061
its literally just refugees from twitter. is has no organic mass or activity. all of its features that make it even slightly distinct are completely unused because it simply doesn't have the population / activity to maintain them. specifically, feeds.
the only activity is duplicated from twitter by people who are just posting there in addition to what they're posting on twitter, or people who left / were booted from twitter and are trying to rekindle their own brand on whatever platform they can. nobody is on bluesky because of bluesky, it really offers nothing other than an additional, lower volume pipe to shovel content through.


Where do you post your art?

I don't have any social media, but I want to start posting my art somewhere. I've been considering Instagram, TikTok and Pixiv, but I'm unsure where to start.

Also, if I post my art, how do I build a following?

Thank you friends!

>>7168825
you need to copy bridgeman twice before we are allowed to answer this question.

>>7168825
why do you want a following?
regardless, the answer is instagram. you need to find people who make art like yours and both use the hashtags they use and interact with them.

>>7168825
Twitter, Discord, iFunny, DeviantArt and Instagram in that order
linktr(dot)ee/CricVT

>>7168825
Animator or art vids = youtube/tiktok/instagram
if coom = twitter
not animator or art vids = twitter/pixiv
don't draw anime or mainly anime? = twitter

Now the general advice, post at least 2-3 times a week(animator 1-4 times a month). Skill level doesn't really matter, as long you post consistently you'll build a following. Posting inconsistently can push you down the algorithm or mess with your interaction. Social media majorly favors fan art, BUT if you can make animations or have your own game you'll yield in a higher reward.

>>7168833
hashtags don't work on instagram anymore, they removed the most recent tab on hashtags, so near impossible to build a following there from the grounds up. Also they favor videos a lot more than photos, so just posting art won't do.

>>7168825
4chan, duh
Will make an account on DA when I get comfortable with my skill level.

>>7168896
timelapses could work if you use a trendy song/music in it or do some sort of spin on it, get creative with him as well. example:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6jQ<wbr>r-BPxoF/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_lin<wbr>k
But if your post are vids ,trending audio, and certain trends that gets you 30k followers in less than a week or 2. Even begging for followers works and garner you thousands of followers just because you made a video on it https://www.instagram.com/kinnnn_30<wbr>/
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C5v2<wbr>J7fuPee/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_lin<wbr>k
This is quite common on insta, being a large chunk of artist on insta beg to get a following, just because these post are vids.

>>7168911
And it works just because these post are vids*

Why not post on artstation? It's for the pros

Which ones are the least cucked by AIfags?

>>7168825
I used all of them and never got popular as a nsfw artist.
Now I hate everybody.