diy/2593638.txt

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--- 2593638
i REKT a Renishaw probe and am being ridiculed by everyone
A niggerfaggot rekt the tool setter by not putting on a protection case i made while trying to do tall pieces we dont have the gripping for to do properly and fast
Yet they still laugh at me and tease me as well
The boss and owner ridicules me as well, he didnt deduct my pay or anything, but he insults me, saying im retarded from birth and i have calcium deficiency or something, bought me bannanas and oranges, because im sick, his 'joke'
It was fault of the programmer that typed T13 instead of 31
It is i who is the operator and should check the entire and all programs thoroughly before pressing start, so its basically 50/50 fault but im the only one that has any balls.
--- 2593664
>>2593638 (OP)
I once saw a guy weld a center drill to the table of a VF2, we fucked with him a bit but not as bad as your situation.

Anybody ever heard of keyhole calipers? Had one in our spring caliper drawer back in tech school but no one knew what they were called or what they were used for. Stumbled upon it again in a random video I saw recently but I still haven't found any definitive answer to how they are supposed to be used, any of you guys know?
Picrel
--- 2593672
>>2593664
Looks like it might be useful for measuring tube wall thickness at an increased depth compared to a tube mic?
--- 2593675
>>2593638 (OP)
At least you aren't the zoomer that wrecked my boss's probe AND the mill's y and z axis. Like $25k to fix.
--- 2593680
>>2593672
That's what I thought at first but if that's the case why isn't the outside jaw the same length?
--- 2593699
>>2593638 (OP)
They're having the bantz with you lad, it's just your turn in the barrel. Don't be such a sensitive little bitch, take it with good grace and banter back with them
--- 2593713
>>2593680
Not sure. Reverse-searching your image indicates it's used in wood turning, specifically bowls.
--- 2593819
>>2593638 (OP)
Tool setter is more important than the dial
--- 2593841
>>2593819
was
--- 2593848
>>2593638 (OP)
Single block slowly every time.
--- 2594085
>>2593664
oof, anon. im 99% sure my old man actually explained to me in depth what it was for, and im almost 99% certain tires also came up but i cannot remember what. it was amongst a few hours of him also explaining all the other crazy manual doodads to measure shit to billionths of an inch using just the sun and tomorrows weather forecast.

that shit is fucking magic
--- 2594099
what's the state of manual machining in [current year]? same question for tool and die industry. all CNC gay shit isn't it? pic unrel
--- 2594200
>>2594099
what else could it be?
--- 2594232
>>2594085
I'm hoping an old guy will pop in and give a detailed description and insight into it
--- 2594254
>>2593638 (OP)
If you didnt get fired, youre alright.
Shit like that happens and will continue to happen
--- 2594518
>>2594099
factory i used to work at has a dedicated manual machinist, he operates this and a lathe.
he has had a lot of jobs but is rarely out of work. it is of course less popular than it was years ago, but there's still work for manual machinists in anywhere with industrial areas, which focuss on engineering and production of machinery of course.
--- 2594521
>>2593638 (OP)
get me a long stand while you're at it, retard.
--- 2594524
>>2594099
additionally, i was like second-machinist, worked mostly on the lathe but i was the workshop gaffer or team leader as it's called in globohomo world. my manual lathe skills were something that contributed to me getting hired.
took a photo of this crazy set up the other machinist did because the first, smaller chuck is seized on and he needed to chuck up something larger.
--- 2594738
>>2593638 (OP)
Retard
--- 2594770
>>2594524
>that grip/stickout ratio
--- 2594797
>>2594770
Its aluminiumn, i wouldnt worry about it
--- 2595370
Sorry if this is wrong thread, but closest thing to pneumatic press. I got one of these for free, I want to use it to stamp die to cut fabric. How do I power this thing? Do I need a special air compressor?
--- 2595528
>>2595370
Not really, just a big one, it says what capacity compressor you need on the press
--- 2596440
I just got a shit load of old starrett, mitutoyo and lufkin tools in wooden cases. A lot of them are rusty. What is the best way to de rust them? The nice pair of mitu dial calipers have rusty screws and I cannot turn them. I am soaking just the end in liquid wrench (not the side with the dial) in hopes they will turn and I can take them apart to clean.
--- 2596992
Any particular reason to use angular contact ball bearings over thrust ball bearings for a CNC mill ball screws? Seems to me that since the forces are purely axial it would make more sense to use thrust bearings and yet nobody does that. What gives?
--- 2597012
>>2596992
>Any particular reason to use angular contact ball bearings over thrust ball bearings for a CNC mill ball screws?
Angular contact give you more radial support than thrust bearings while still giving the axial support. Adjusting the angle adjusts the ratio of axial/radial load capacity.
--- 2597015
>>2596992
>Seems to me that since the forces are purely axial

You still need to control the position radially.
--- 2597193
>>2597012
>>2597015
Yes you must position it and at the very least hold the weight of the ballscrew but I don't really see why ordinary thrust ball bearings couldn't handle that. The balls run in a track and are under axial preload. They can center themselves and can handle limited radial loads.

Looking at the spec sheets these thrust ball bearings have multiple times the rated capacity of similar size angular contact ball bearings which I would imagine also translates to rigidity. So I don't really get it, you can get the same performance in a smaller and a cheaper package, what's the problem?
--- 2597233
>>2596440
Scrub with cloth and oil
--- 2597365
>>2597193
>They can center themselves and can handle limited radial loads.
wat.exe 
Those two are mutually exclusive. 

>>2596992
>since the forces are purely axial
No. 

>yet nobody does that
Because it's shit. Manual mills often use axial thrust bearings + radial bushing and people regularly convert it to angular ball bearing because it's much nicer. 

>>2597193
>at the very least hold the weight of the ballscrew
Technically true but in reality the weight of the ballscrew is completely irrelevant as the load is like 100 times higher. 

>I would imagine also translates to rigidity
Not if your screw moves all over the place. 

Ballscrews are generally a highly preloaded precision devices. You don't want the nut to carry all the wobbly side loads, you don't want it to move in any direction other than rotation at all for precision reasons. CNC mills don't use AC bearings they use P4 AC bearings like machine spindles. Even slight misalignment will make the system fail years early. 

This may not be so relevant for shitty DIY routers because the frame moves at least as much as the screws. You could use axial bearings in combination with radial bearings and at that point you realise it's much easier to just use AC bearings. If you really wanted a lot more load capacity at cheap price tapered roller bearings would be the way to go. Very few mills use them probably because at that point you exceed the capacity of the ballscrew by far. A taiwanese FK or BK bearing block is like 30 bucks it makes zero sense to fuck around with other bearing arangements. If you want to use less bearings skip the radial bearing at the loose end. If your screw doesn't exceed critical length or speed, you don't need it. 

Btw. how do you even plan on driving the screw? Unless it's a pully in it's own bearings you'll fuck up your coupler and motor bearings because they will start to carry the radial loads.
--- 2597380
>>2597365
>mutually exclusive
Wtf?? by definition if you bearing is able to handle any radial loads it is also self centering. Look at that picture I posted. The little balls roll in the races, displacement/deformation is required to push them out of those races, this equals force, ie. you try to push the shaft off center the bearings resist your efforts.
>No
What significant radial forces are there on a ball screw shaft?
>Not if your screw moves all over the place.
Why would it do that when it is centered by the bearing's ball races?
>how do you even plan on driving the screw?
Axially with a shaft coupler mounted motor.
--- 2597394
>>2597380
>Look at that picture I posted
That picture is from the NSK page where it literally says it cannot take ANY radial loads. 

>is able to handle any radial loads it is also self centering
If it is self centering it is moving and if it's moving it's obviously NOT bearing aka constraining the load. Those bearings have no contact on the outside at all (well maybe 1 point) they cannot constrain radially. They are undersize and fit in an H8 oversize bore. 

>What significant radial forces are there on a ball screw shaft?
There's a lot going on. The screw is not straight, the ways are not straight, they aren't aligned perfectly so the screw will be bend, there's whipping action going on with a potentially very long lever arm, couplers or pulleys will put radial loads on it. In the very end you will have to keep it from falling down/over or the nut will do that job. 

>Why would it do that when it is centered by the bearing's ball races?
Because the races themselves are moving all over the place. 

>Axially with a shaft coupler mounted motor.
So unless the motor is floating on the end of the screw, which would be very hard do, the radial bearings in the motor and the ballscrew nut will take all radial forces. Why even use axial bearings then. Just use a hard coupler to fix the screw onto the motor. 

Even if it was possible why would you do this. You save like 3€ per bearing for a way worse solution which is open to dirt and loosing lubrication and also needs a custom housing solution. There is a pseudo standard going on, i think it's copied from early THK designs, which is well proven, well balanced load capacity vise and very cheap.
--- 2598071
I have a large mill, a PM 932 (rf45 clone) and I want to cnc it. I was wondering if it was possible to use the AC gear motor already installed to lift the head in place of a stepper with any sort of accuracy and repeatability or if it's not even worth considering, even with maybe an encoder or something attached to it for feedback. I don't know the actual specs off the top of my head, but iirc it moves like an inch or so per second. I figured since it's not like it's going to be moving that quickly and being the z it's not like you have to worry about backlash between the threads it might be a viable idea especially with an encoder. plus then I wouldn't have to worry about needing a beef ass motor and brake and stuff to be able to move the probably 100lb head and not worry about it dropping when powered off.
--- 2598144
>>2598071
if all you want is rapids on your z, then it's probably fine. if you're trying to nigger rig a z power down feed for five bucks, then no.
--- 2598158
>>2598144
damn. maybe i can come up with some complicated stupid way to put a motor on the quill and make it more stupid and expensive than just putting a stepper on the head.
on that note though, the head is meant to be clamped to the column with gib locks after positioning for rigidity since you're meant to use the quill for z, how would that work with cnc if you move the whole head?
--- 2598171
>>2594770
aluminum plus you could use tailstock support and take light cuts

i've often seen chuck-in-chuck setups on manual lathes
--- 2598196
>>2598158
i guess you'd have to find a way to install a clamping solution that can be automated. pneumatic with electronic solenoids on the valves would be my first inclination, since there's tons of stuff out there.
--- 2598244
>>2594099
There's still shops running lots of manual work for one off industry stuff
--- 2598501
>>2598071
I tried to use a geared motor first, then in combination with gas struts and it was still a bad solution. In the end i did a ballscrew conversion direct driven by a Nema 34 12Nm closed loop stepper. If i'd do it again i would probably fill the column with epoxy granite and bolt on roller guides too. The z slide with head connection and the hollow base bending under the column load are the major weak poins of the design. You can't really lock the z slide too it's just compressing the open column. 

With gas struts you don't have to worry about the head moving down without power. But even without the ways are often so bad and the slide so short it just locks itself up. Which can also give a lot of trouble downfeeding as it jerks every few mm. 

>>2598158
>on that note though, the head is meant to be clamped to the column with gib locks after positioning for rigidity since you're meant to use the quill for z, how would that work with cnc if you move the whole head?

The quill is also meant to be retracted and locked for milling. Milling with an extended quill is going to bellmouth the quill bore, if it is even tight enough in the first place. It's kind of a gamble with these machines. 

When your head is motorized you set the gibs pretty tight, lock the quill in the retracted position and just go at it. If it get's loose over time you reset the gibs (which you can't do with the quill) or you set it how you need it if the tightness differs on different portions of the z ways. And you don't have to re zero every time you change a tool or move the tool out of the way to measure something which is a big plus. 

Also it's nice to be able to use the quill manually. I do a lot of mixed cnc/manual work where i position the table with MDI and drill/bore/tap manually. That's a great workflow for those guys still thinking a cnc is slower for one ofs btw. 

>>2598171
>i've often seen chuck-in-chuck setups on manual lathes
True but normally it's the other way around.
--- 2598713
Anyone know about portable line boring machines? Do you actually have to pay 80k for a climax or can you buy chinese or atleast a cheaper brand and get the same results.
--- 2598795
>>2593638 (OP)
OP rack up a bunch of jobs over the course of a week and log them done while not doing any of them and “dropping” one of each tool needed for them somewhere then quit. Let the boomers who cant operate 2 axis machines from 1980 figure it out kek.
--- 2598855
I got high on weed few days ago, went to work and got a new green zoomtard to teach that wanted to pay me personally instead of doing the propper course
I refused the money, because i feel like i need a helper or a peasant i can boss around and teach eventually something.
I havent smoked weed in a long time, so this time it hit me like a freight train, but im an adult so it was checked by myself and was on top of everything, i started overthinking things in abstract ways as i usually would on weed but it was stronger, so i was poetic and abstract.
I ask the zoomer, what diameter is the cigarette, by your own eye, measure it by your own eye
And he did, he said 5mm which was WRONG
i said its 8mm (i never measured it prior)
And he measured it, it was 8mm
What is the distance now, between the endmill and the piece?
1mm
WRONG
its 7 tenths
of what?
of a mm
we did the cigarette paper test, it was 0.67
paper was 0.03
We let loose a program, 4 stocks to be run in one program, BRAAAAAAAAUUUUUOOOOOOOOOOOBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRE...
whenever a new tool came, i induced panic into him, it might ramm into it and crash everything
He became quick and alert in half an hour
the endmill idles, roaring to cut, at 30mm g0 to 1mm yet he LOOKS hard to see those 30mm if they are true, in all the coolant and mess, is it what it says it is
And lets loose, because it is, double checked the Z.
I held a speech for 40 fucking minutes on visualizing the drill, or endmill at microscopic level inside the metal what it does, how it cuts, why are the chips shaped the way they are, what is happening to the cutting edges, how will it affect...
The kid sat down at the end of the shift, said he has NEVER taken so much information before in just 7 hours, and that he will have dreams about this
We went to the bar later, had a few drinks some laughs and now he thinks i am a god.
I have to keep the act going, he works good. Very good. I wish he starts loving the job.
--- 2598900
after being promoted to top rate a year ago my boss has approached and said if i wanted the position i could be the shop foreman
any other guys here make a move like that?
im a bit hesitant due to the fact that my shop has some real prissy princesses and at the moment when they want help i just tell them i dunno nothing, as foreman id have to actually work with them on issues
what do
--- 2598901
>>2598855
wow dude you're like the master po of your shop. i bet grasshopper was ready to suck you off.
--- 2598918
>>2593638 (OP)
Lol some newfag at work double killed a probe in a HAAS then tried to hide it. Best part: he dropped a probe out of the tool holder onto another probe sitting on the table (for reasons?) and they both snapped the ends off. Also we were borrowing one of them from a "partnered" machine shop. He wouldn't have got in trouble if he didn't try to hide it.
--- 2598942
>>2598501
thanks for the knowledge/input. guess I'll just have to fuckin do it the right way the first time then *sigh*
--- 2598952
>>2598855
Is he cute?
--- 2599026
>>2598952
seconding this
--- 2599043
>>2593672
It could work, but as the other anon said, they can be used for bowls and other bowl-like concave objects. You can also use it to measure thickness at an arbitrary point of an object with an obstructed or awkward surface but mostly convex or flat opposite face while having a smaller outline than an more traditional caliper.
--- 2599075
>>2599043
I'm having trouble picturing what you're describing, is there any chance you could make a simple sketch?
--- 2599130
>>2598855
You hit your first absolute measure by accident and now youre the motherfucking genius all of the sudden, grooming future geniuses
Fucking Grandmaster Pai Mei ova here
--- 2599227
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS_KamgYiq4 [Embed]
Great. How the fuck do i calculate the fixture?
--- 2599554
Bros, how the fuck do you turn your work brain off on friday night?

I ran into a completely oddball issue for a production part I'd just ran a week ago but the issue came up right before I left for the weekend. There are numerous potential reasons for my problems with the work piece and they're bouncing around in my head whenever they can.
--- 2599587
>>2599554
It never stops. That is what you are.
--- 2599842
>>2599554
alcool and other drugs.
--- 2600405
>>2593664
For anyone wondering about these calipers I think I found their special use case (picrel), basically you can find the thickness of the main hole below a counterbore when there is an obstacle on the outside preventing equal length legs. They are also useful for tight spaces, tube wall, and centering drilled holes (using the taper at the bottom of drilled holes to center the straight leg). I was able to find info from old starrett catalogs on internet archive that pretty much just go over that they're used for centering and tight spaces. Hope that clears everything up for those who were interested
--- 2600408
>>2600405
Heres a the text from one of those catalogs.

Speaking of old tool catalogs and old obscure tools, has anyone heard of a spring internal groove caliper? I've never seen any evidence of one but it seems like such a simple concept (just bend the points on inside calipers outward a bit more), the idea that no one has thought of or made any before I find really surprising