diy/2562551.txt

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--- 2562551
Previous Edition: >>2477759
--- 2562554
>>2562551 (OP)
Fuck forgot the question, lets go with...

Question of the thread: What is your favorite etched microstructure?
--- 2563140
I prefer fully miscible ternary alloys.
--- 2563190
>>2562554
Thermal sprayed coatings/substrates unintentionally etched by colloidal silica used for the final polish step.
>Hey why's there such a big crack between the coating and substrate?
--- 2563605
Has anyone tried using propane furnace exhaust to preheat fresh air for the burner? Should be easy to pull extra few hundred degrees with just simple stainless steel heat exchanger. Or, alternatively, save some fuel to reach same temps.
--- 2563617
>>2563605
Usually you preheat either the air or fuel. Preheated air is preferred due to safety (assuming it isn't oil as a fuel which loves preheating) and simplicity. Preheating the mixture is usually hard due to the short path. 

The problem is that the exhaust is usually upwards flowing and still really damn hot so you need a really sturdy steal heat exchanger.
--- 2563645
>>2563617
Heating air alone is slightly less efficient than mixture but it's pretty much the only simple option.
My math says you don't need a lot of heat exchanger surface at all, you might even want to insulate the hot side a little bit. A pair of coaxial pipes on top of furnace exhaust should work just fine.
--- 2564402
>>2562551 (OP)
Quick question, how can I forge a sword in my home? 
I'm doing a manufacturing course in university and producing stuff with metal gives me boners for some reason I can not explain.
--- 2564403
>>2564402
I mean, the question is pretty retarded because the theory is out there for anyone to look for, but I'm asking for recommendations for a beginner.
--- 2564426
>>2564402
If you use modern techniques, equipment and don't intend to make a master work its a fairly simple undertaking. 

But the correct bar stock from a propper supplier, hammer it out in multiple firings with constant measurement and the aid of clamps, quench it, be prepared to do some laborious correction grinding on a really low speed, simply mig weld and sand the handle assembly, check the balance then screw (yes with a nut) a pommel of the correct weight to balance whatever you've made. 

Hollow grinds, cross grain, resonance and ductility are really hard to pull off, start with a short straight blade. 
Many types of sword are very, very hard to use and you'll disappoint yourself making a sword that you'll promptly break. For that reason I'd make a side sword of some variety, then make a few javlins. Congratulations you now win single infantry combat against anyone who doesn't have either a bronze shield or a horse, in which case your odds are still fair.
--- 2564429
Pic relate is a commercial reproduction sword, these are made with modern materials and equipment in the easiest possible way. 

Is it a good sword? No. Is it a sword? Yes.

You will notice things like it doesn't have a hollow grind and has a short blade, which really makes it far too heavy. But this being said its fool proof, won't break, isnt going to get hot spots, can be ground entirely on a belt sander or even with a very large file.
The blade is welded on so it has all the resonance of a fire poker; but the handle won't snap off and it won't ring like a bell when it's hit on somthing. 
The pommel appears screwed on, so without knowing exactly how it will balance you can still screw on a heavier or lighter pommel right at the end.
--- 2564430
Having achieved this in less than a week including all the time fooling around looking for equipment and materials, you can immediately begin a second sword which might be somthing that doesn't have a symmetrical profile (like a cutlass), or you might made another side sword with a propperly fitted handle (like a knights dagger), or you might work on a blade with a better grind. This way you're not going to invest heaps of time in somthing only to be undone by a single element failing.
--- 2564767
I make chain mail and I've been trying to come up with a possibly better preservation method than historical options which was generally just tumbling and oiling. I thought about rust bluing but I also think blue chromate might be interesting. Would those finishes hold up to the rings moving against each other over time?
--- 2564787
>>2564767
Nitriding. :^)

But if you don't have a local nitrider, I recommend a chemical conversion coating process rather than an oxide layer process. Think phosphate or chromate as you mentioned. Conversion coatings are a wee bit better in wear.
--- 2565199
Question, I have a lot of aluminium cans lying around and some old electrical scrap i want to recycle into metal, only im a /diy/ noob and dont know what foundry to get. Ideally im looking for an electric one, as i don't want to have to buy gas. Any anons know any good electrical foundries that wont immediately die due to being chink shit?
--- 2565556
Can any blacksmith chads give me some advice? I’m trying to make a spoon, and I’m having trouble shaping the dish. I’ve been trying to use my cross peen on the center of the dish part, but I think it’ll end up being too long.
--- 2565557
>>2565556
Side view
--- 2565636
>>2565199
Aluminum cans and copper scrap? Propane. Otherwise build your own resistive heating furnace from Amazon parts, look it up on Youtube. 

>>2565556
Make a "positive" of a spoon (Round over a solid block of iron) and use that to form the work piece around.
--- 2565656
>>2565636
I mean I’m having trouble forging the outline/profile of the scoop part, not the curve.
--- 2565858
>>2565656
Ah, fair point... I'm not too sure. Most of my knowledge is of a modern stamping process. Maybe your shaping tool is too small? I know that larger impact surfaces tend to make a more even, circular expansion. Smaller surfaces are harder to controll spread and tend to stretch the local area instead of expanding the entire piece and flattening it.
--- 2567412
>>2565556
Looks like my jackhammer after hitting a live mains.
--- 2567666
>heated a piece of copper
>decide to let it air cool
>after a while, run water on it to get rid of any warmth
>still hot enough to make a hissing sound
>notice some pitting on the copper
>not sure if the pitting was there all along
>a chain of pitting seems somewhat mirrored on the other side of the copper
could it have been the quenching that made the pitting? (i was experimenting if air cooling would form less stubborn oxide scales.)
--- 2567679
>>2565556
Got it shaped well enough, but the pitting is a bit excessive. Going to buy a sanding tool tomorrow because there is no way I am going to finish sanding this by hand.
--- 2567706
>>2567679
looks great
--- 2567708
>>2567412
>Looks like my jackhammer after hitting a live mains.
the ol' spicy chisel

jesus christ
--- 2567869
>>2567679
Acid dip + Cu/Ni plate.
--- 2567928
redpill me on aluminum casting. Can it be done safely in a stone-covered back yard? Am I likely to produce noxious smells or fumes that will get me evicted? What is the best medium for mold making for a beginner? Is it true you can just do it with water, fine sand, and artists' plaster?
--- 2568093
>>2567869
Going to try this next week. Need to order some nitric acid and some nickel anodes, but it seems simple enough. If that doesn’t work, I’ll just throw it back in the forge and leave it black like picrel.
--- 2568258
>>2567928
Yes. No. Dirt (yes, literally dirt). Next best is mud mixed with sand and allowed to dry. Next best is clay purified from the mud mixed with sand. Plaster and sand is actually First-World-Tier. Go watch some "Paki/North Indian" metal casting vids on Youtube. They use their bare feet to hold the molten aluminum.
--- 2569135
>>2568258
So basically if I go to the art store for some plaster of paris or something and steal sand from the park I should be good?
--- 2569179
>>2569135
Yeah, pretty much. Check the archives in previous metallurgy threads, guy shared his jewelery-grade plaster mix for miniatures.
--- 2569321
>>2565556
>>2567679
If you have a good ball-peen hammer: Take a log of wood and hammer the hot iron into the wood. It will take a while, but eventually you get a mold and can make it like a real spoon.
I do not remember where I saw it, but it works.
--- 2569326
>>2565199
A welding unit as a power supply, two graphite rods. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTzKIs19eZE [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znuiIAiN8uM [Embed]
--- 2570051
>>2569321
Yeah, I saw this technique in a few videos on making spoons. I ended up just using a ball peen and hardy hole.
--- 2570160
>>2564767
if blue chromate is the stuff they typicall use on guns, it does jack fuck even against just people's hands rubbing against it. it's why you see a lot of modern military rifles have shiny bits at the edges of anything protruding (they're often made of aluminum though so idk)
--- 2571123
instead of using fast quench oil, what about making a water quenchant that is slower? either emulsified oil in water, or something as simple as mud.
--- 2571388
Is there a /diy/ newfag guide for anons looking to get into blacksmithing?
--- 2571689
>>2564767
Maybe try case hardening.
--- 2571699
How feasible would it be to replicate picrel via stock removal with minimal tools? Could I do it without a forge?
--- 2571769
>>2567869
don't plate cooking utensils with copper, it tastes like shit
nickel's alright though
--- 2571774
>>2571699
real swords go in >>>/k/

If you mean just the shape, sure, starting with a bar of metal about the right size, you could do it with just a grinder.
--- 2571786
>>2571769
what about zinc
--- 2571790
>>2564767
>better preservation method than historical options
if you don't care about accuracy just make it the next one out of a nice hard Stainless, and don't worry about any wear

>>2564787
>chemical conversion coating process rather than an oxide layer process.
what about black oxide? that's super easy
--- 2571798
>>2571786
copper's not a problem unless you'll be using it with vinegar or other acidic food
nickel is more inert, shouldn't react with much at all
zinc is way less inert - galvanised stuff is prevented from rusting because the zinc is so much more reactive it protects the iron several milimeters away even by corroding itself before the iron can
--- 2571800
>>2571798
super neat, never knew that
--- 2571901
>>2571123
With mud I'd assume it would form a hard shell on the steel, resulting in a too slow cooling rate. With emulsified oil I'm guessing it would slow the cooling proportional to the oil content. If you have a hardness tester could be fun to try.
--- 2572262
>>2571699
Bar stock + bench grinder. Easy,but do be aware of warping during heat treatment.

>>2571769
>>2571798

Copper is the base coat. Cu/Ni is usually superior to Ni alone.

Don't galvanize your spoon. Copper - > Tin is a more historical plating for cooking implements and still is in HINDUSTAN etc.

>>2571901
Yes.
--- 2572276
>>2571699
It would take lots of time and patience
But you could do it with just an angle grinder and a large steel rod
--- 2572919
i have a no brand wood carving gouge that when sharpened, the edge breaks off, almost like a bur at first or like a foil crumbling. what is causing this? can it be saved? 
it was tempered to just below file hardness so it's not because it's soft.
--- 2573090
>>2567679
update: decided to just go ham with a file and sandpaper. I also made a second one, with less pitting. I finished them both with butcher block conditioner (beeswax + mineral oil)

I hate hand sanding
--- 2573285
>>2572919
Se hardened steels do not like very thin tip angles. Try a less steep tip and especially avoid sharpening on both sides. Also considered some light peening to imprpve surface tension.

>>2573090
Get a set of polishing wheels and run the coarsest abraisive embedded in wax you can get to stick in the wheels on a proper bench grinder. If you rotate the piece over and over it eventually folds the surface over the smallest pores and removes material to get a decent, if rough, finish on the large pores.
--- 2573345
idk if this is the right board / thread but seems close enough

I'm preparing x16 a4-sized 0.5mm aluminum sheets to do a series of mixed media paintings on them. They will eventually be for sale so I want to make sure they will stand the test of time (indoors) and nothing will peel off.

After sanding and cleaning them, I used up a whole spray can of self etching primer on them, and managed to do 1 light coat on all of them. The primer has now dried for 18ish hours. However I've now noticed that when viewed at an angle, a very fine sparkly mist of unprimed aluminum can be seen on most of the panels. Do I need to get more etch primer and recoat them?

I plan to coat them with gesso on top of the etch primer. I don't want to risk the acids from the etch primer affecting the surface of the painting, would 1 coat of acid-free gesso be a sufficient barrier?
--- 2573392
Can banging on metal really make you happy?
--- 2573410
>>2573345
Aluminum has a very high coefficient of thermal expansion but is moisture stable. Hot and humid gesso on metal is ok, just like cold and dry. But hot and dry or cold and wet will fuck it up because the swelling and expansion are opposites. You need a flexible layer between the base metal and the surface. You should use an archival quality adhesive which maintains flexibility and adhere some fine linen canvas (or at least a high strength fiber paper) to this for your base gesso. If you don't the gesso will quickly fail through unsightly cracking or at worse delamination. 

>>2573392
Instruments. Blacksmithing. Guns. Computing. Banging in metal is a good hobby.
--- 2573483
>>2573410
little confused by this
I don't want to introduce any canvas to the panels.
When you talk about hot/cold/dry/wet are you talking about environmental changes that could damage the work over time? 
>You need a flexible layer between the base metal and the surface. 
Would the etch primer not be flexible enough for that? 

Otherwise what about metal>etchprimer>(gac100) or (acid free pva) or (flashe)> gesso?
--- 2573559
>>2573285
what does se hardened steel mean? single edge?
i already sharpen it at a shorter bevel than it's factory grind. 
how do i avoid this happening to other blades that i harden myself?
--- 2573561
>>2573090
you could use curved metal scrapers for the bowl, or those curved riffler files.
--- 2573700
>>2573483
Yeah, a nice PVA layer would probably be good enough. (No, acid etch primer is not flexible)

>>2573559
I somehow forgot the o and m in some. Another possibility is that you have surface decarb so the edge is actually a thin layer of soft metal. You might want to consider a carburizing atmosphere during the first heat.
--- 2573843
Hey folks, where can I get some nickel? I come across some at a job and they said I could have a piece, and I'm wanting a consistent source of the stuff. Anywhere I can get a consistent amount of it?
--- 2573958
>>2573843
Nickel alloy is sold as a corrosion resistent magnetic fixturing plate material or for magnetic shielding. Call your local metal vendor and ask for "soft magnetic material, preferably high Nickel alloy".

https://www.edfagan.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/Machining_Guide_All_Materials-06_11_20.pdf
--- 2574038
My local forge lists this as the beginner checklist for knifemaking, is there anything worth adding/removing? It's supposed to be about $500 AUD for all this
>Workbench
>5" Angle Grinder (cutting and shaping blanks)
>1mm Angle Grinder discs (great for cutting out shapes)
>Good set of Files (shaping bevels)
>Sandpaper 180, 320, and 600 Grit
>Small Drill Press (difficult to make straight holes without one)
>Bench Vice (buy one or make your own)
>Pre Cut Blade Blanks (ideal for your first few knives)
>3mm 1075 Steel (easy to work with, easy to heat treat)
--- 2574727
>>2574038
Standard woodworking tools for handles (hand saw, drill press can do rivet holes)

Safety equipment (squints, dust masks, and gloves)

Metal working hammer
--- 2575089
Electrolysis of molten sodium chloride: feasible?

I know I can get my charcoal furnace and graphite crucible up to the 1500 f necessary to melt sodium xchloride. Would it be stupid to stick two electrodes down in there? The crucible is about 4" wide and 6" deep
--- 2575091
>>2575089
From a 12v battery
--- 2575101
>>2575089

I'm sure it's feasible but I would be wary of the gas. I've done the molten sodium hydroxide for sodium before and it produces a little metal for not too much effort.

A bunch of the time they will add Calcium Chloride to reduce the melting point. I would recommend just starting with that because calcium is cool too, and then trying with sodium chloride or mixes.
--- 2575108
>>2575101
Hey, you say "sodium hydroxide". I know the two processes are related, but what are you referring to? 

My biggest concerns were the electrodes. I dont want a short circuit.
--- 2575140
>>2575108
Na + O + H (hydroxide)
Na + Cl (chloride)

Both can be theoretically electrolyzed to Sodium metal. The salt makes chlorine gas. The hydroxide makes water which usually leaves as steam.
--- 2575807
>1075
>1084
>1095
Which steel should I get for knives?
--- 2575842
>>2575807
Me? 1075. I tend to abuse my blades and like the flexibility so they don't snap.

1095 if I am making a boutique blade fashioned into a razorblade for shaving or something gentle like leather sheet shaving for leather crafts.
--- 2575853
I want to make a san mai karambit soon.
Any tips for making the san mai, or for making the karambit? Grinding the bevel on the inside curve of the knife looks like it’ll be difficult.
--- 2575858
>>2575853
Probably not a great image, actually. I’m going for a stouter, double edged design.
--- 2575883
does subcritical quenching produce a steel that is springy? i'm working with 1095 in particular.
it's shallow hardening steel, and i want to edge quench so i have to use water. i want to minimize the risk of cracks while also keeping the steel springy.
--- 2575922
Any tips for removing air bubbles when casting brass? The thin bits at the bottom came out good but good shit. I didn't use a sprew at the top, just had it open. Is that bad? Cools too fast or something?
--- 2575923
>>2575922
*But the top is shit
--- 2575940
>>2575922
Is this a plane?
--- 2575996
>>2575922
Forget the bubbles. You missed the main purpose of casting.
--- 2576020
>>2575940
It's a trigger guard for a colt walker
>>2575996
Go on
--- 2576055
>>2576020
Make a perfect mold so that you won't have to machine it. Your piece looks super rough. 
This guy is slow but you need to take your time or waste your time and fuel later.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd_aCSJ2-Dc [Embed]
--- 2576828
>>2575853
Build a jig out of wood.

>>2575883
Try on a test piece and report back.

>>2575922
Bruh, make a proper mold. That looks overly machined and shit. Use proper gates and risers. Preheat the mold. Put in vent holes. Measure the overheat of your metal. Use the proper alloy of bronze.
--- 2577442
How would I go about putting a fuller in a knife with an angle grinder?
--- 2577446
>>2575089
nacl melts at 800C
sodium metal boils at 880C
--- 2577664
can anyone tell me a working process for tinning cast iron ware?
Hot dipping is not an option, dont have a stupid amount of tin laying around and no way getting my hands on borax.
--- 2577757
>>2577442
Make a jig and use a cutoff disc.

>>2577664
Do you have zinc pennies and hydrochloric acid (pool acid)? Make several gallons of HCl+ZnCl and use a powerful heat gun + high Ag tin solder (plumbing solder) to slowly skin coat the casting as you liberally brush on the flux.
--- 2577761
>>2577757
i know this is diy but what the difference here between actual tinning paste?
do you think the cast iron requires pickling first? 
Ive fucked around with flux (not ZnCl but acidic nature) and 97ag before on a testpiece and it didnt go well, only stuck on few spots.
Why heatgun an not a flame/fire? i imagine a neutral flame should do no harm, unfortunately dont have acetylene
--- 2577825
I'm looking to get into some minor metalworking to re-arrange some of the sheet metal on my vehicle. I already have an angle grinder and wire welder picked out, but I'm having trouble finding a good source on protective gear to wear while using the equipment. I need something that will protect my entire upper body from flying bits of metal or white-hot slag. I thought I found a good combination of leather sleeves/upper torso and a long apron, but all the reviews online were saying that the company was shit about delivery and customer service, and the leather it was made out of was paper-thin.
Ideally, I would like protective equipment that can serve double-duty in both working with the angle grinder and the welder, preferably leather or rubber that can take high temps and flying metal slivers. What do the grinders and welders around here recommend?
--- 2577867
>>2577761
A super industrial heat gun can get the surface of even large pieces of steel hot enough to intimately bond with tin compounds without burning up the flux. Torches always cause the plant operators issues but they ARE retarded so you might have better luck.

If you can preheat it to the right temp then all you do is metal brush on flux and follow with the solder. 

You do need a very clean exposed metal surface, however. That may be your issue. Any built up black oxide, rust, or burnt oil will RUIN everything. If not freshly machined and solvent cleaned the steel has issues. For cast irons you may need a sand blasting to remove exposed surface carbon and oxide.

>>2577825
Eyes, Ears, Lungs. Well fitting goggles or at least a face shield. Proper earplugs + ear covers if the metal resonates loudly. At LEAST a dust mask. Seriously, don't get tinnitus and eye shards. It sucks.

For protective equipment against cutting debris just get thick workman's pants and button up shirt (Dickies, etc.).

For welding you then put on anything that isn't porous or flammable. A really thick weight fire-resistent poly weave/solid high temp rubber aprons over cotton workman's clothes will protect you from anything short of an entire crucible falling on you while laying down. For arms and hands just get any generic full length welding gloves. Anything that somehow melts through will be cool enough that your cotton clothing keeps you from burning.
--- 2578116
>>2576828
first crude test resulted in a bendable steel, but not springy.
used a hacksaw blade over stove top. barely got to red. 
saw a lot of south east asian bladesmiths do it, but maybe i'm doing it wrong. but then again, they don't even refine the grain or anneal after forging the blades. the mostly just get the edge hot and quench the edge, without doing a temper cycle but i believe letting the residual heat from the unquenched steel auto temper the edge.
--- 2578120
>>2571388
No, there is not to my knowledge. However it is fairly simple. Alas, it is time for /diy/ to finally write a collaborative book on the topic, but we're all too busy.
At bare minimum you need: A furnace, some type of anvil, pliers, a hammer and a striking surface.

For the furnace, decide for fuel - I'd wager against gas for beginners, for gas safety is a whole topic worthy of debate. I began with charcoal and it is not very good. Coal is good, but smelly.
https://feltmagnet.com/crafts/Basic-Blacksmithing-coal-charcoal-or-propane-for-forge-fuel

Be certain when constructing the furnace that you don't use ANY galvanized components. I did and got lucky - few days of fever, but serious poisoning has occurred. Use ungalvanized stuff only.

There are some youtube videos on beginning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fuk7Lw_uV5s [Embed]

Pliers. I have used simple electricians pliers at first, then plumbers pliers, and finally made my own (it was among the first things I made). The first two pliers, prepare for flying hot pieces of metal.

Anvil. I used a piece of railroad track we had lying around (grandfather used to work for the railways), but I found it insufficient. This was certainly due to bad to no hardening - it will cause crevices in the anvil, which is not ideal. I will eventually forge my own: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsixmP7KOLU [Embed]
They are cheap, easier to make, and should hold up well.

Hammer. A cheap hammer can be used at first - I used a flat surface square hammer and those carpenter ones - it's better than nothing.
The hammer is the only thing I really bought for my forging, but theoretically you could forge your own.
--- 2578121
>>2573090
Looking good anon, though it's a pity the pitting is so prevalent. 
You could, for the next ones, do a twist on the handle.
--- 2578122
>>2577664
>no way getting my hands on borax.
Before the Britbongs decided to get out of the EU, I simply bought a kilo of the stuff from eBay and put it into an airtight container, labeling it as "Not Cocaine".
Can't you just get it from online vendor in your state? Mayhaps a welding supply shop?
--- 2578532
>>2578116
If I recall correctly, certain elements change the austenitization temperatures quite lower, so maybe you need "dirtier" steel.

>>2578120
Quality post.
--- 2578567
>>2577664
>Hot dipping is not an option,
Electroplating then
--- 2578672
Newfag here. Am I good to go with 1.2kg of 1075 steel, 90 × 5.0 × 0.25 cm for knives or should I buy a different thickness?
--- 2579464
Posting here since /EMT/ is Cringe'n'Crap. I'm trying to drill autenistic stainless steel:
1. What are optimal chips for drilling? My drill either produces small silver or black chips, almost powdery, but the drills are sharp enough (if I tried to sharpen with an angle grinder, pretty sure they'd actually dull).
2. Why don't drill bits have keyways cut in them that align with the chuck jaws so that the bit doesn't slide in the chuck and mar the bit? Seems like round shanks are tooling that stuck around, because no one bothered to question it's validity in a world with grinders.
--- 2579470
>>2579464
first of all your chuck is shit.
clean and degrease the jaws, if the bit still slips throw it out and buy a not chink one.
Then i advice you go buy a cutting paste you brush on the bit.
Maintaining feed pressure is important.
From my experience with 316l, the steel work hardenes very quickly if you only rub it with slight feed pressure, or the bit is about to plunge through. That makes them incredible hard to drill with a handheld drill.
If i drill it at home, i use autofeed on my drill press.
On#2 There is a reason chucks typically dont go over 13mm and drills bigger than that have a morse taper
--- 2579487
>>2579464
Three-jaws are for wood and soft metal with no need for precision. 4-jaw is for fucking with weird shit beyond most needs.

 For stainless at least get a collet setup. You can even put a collet chuck in a 3 jaw (the larger shanks are easier held than small drillbits).

>>2578672
Just make sure it isn't prone to warping and you're good.
--- 2579491
>>2579470
>if the bit still slips throw it out and buy a not chink one.
Kek, seems like the only option, as zirconia/alumina abrasives probably aren't hard enough to cut keyways in HSS.

>cutting paste
Yes, I'm using water soluble cutting oil. Same thing?

>Maintaining feed pressure is important
>If i drill it at home, i use autofeed on my drill press.
Yeah, I'm considering getting a vertical mill, too bad they don't fit in a van, as I can't really stay here (Commiefornia). Seems like it would be more versatile than a drill press, and it could be used as a lathe with a cutting tool mounted to the table and the workpiece chucked up in the head.

>>2579487
>collet setup
So iIm going to have to swap collets every time I want to change bits?
--- 2579494
>>2579491
>I'm considering getting a vertical mill, too bad they don't fit in a van
Ignore that part, just realized a horizontal mill or a lathe with a height adjustment would fit and do the same.
--- 2579497
>>2579491
are we talking handheld tool here? for a stationary machine just buy a keyed chuck already. Even the brand ones in standard size are cheap.
Standard abrasives are hard enough, hss gets ground with standard white corundum.
for manual application, paste is better than oil. stays in place and doesnt need constant application
--- 2579501
>>2579497
>are we talking handheld tool here?
Yes, initially we were talking about hand drills.

>Standard abrasives are hard enough
Totally forgot I ground a HSS lathe bit at CC.

>paste is better than oil
That reminds me, is water the best coolant for grinding?
--- 2579503
>>2579501
no idea about water, im no machinist
hss can be done dry with dipping and drill shanks are not hardened to begin with
--- 2579505
>>2579503
I see. I was instructed to use water or water-oil mix when cutting HSS, as the grinding can mess up the heat treatment.
--- 2579506
>>2579503
Oh, one last thing. I bought a replacement chuck from hobo freight, but the ID on the thread is .560", any idea what that might be used for?
--- 2579621
>>2565636
>>2565556
>>2569321
Congrats to spoon anon - it looks like it turned out great.
I'm planning a similar project making grill tools from angle bar. I'm not sure how to find good foodsafe metal. I could go with stainless but it's expensive so I was hoping to get away with mild/carbon hot rolled angle steel. I know I'll have to take off the factory coating before I add my own layer of seasoning. I'm just wondering if some carbon steel is more foodsafe than others
--- 2579649
>>2565556
Ahahahahaha, now I don't feel bad for my nig rig welding. Maybe I'll send a photo later.
--- 2579650
>>2579621
Carbon steel and rust are safer than the oxides produced by stainless. Stainless is only safe under the assumption it doesn't rust or abraid.
--- 2579662
>>2579650
What causes stainless steel to oxidize? I have a water bottle that looks a bit rusty on the inside sometimes
--- 2579744
>>2562551 (OP)
Is this a bad deal?
https://www.shoppok.com/orangecounty/a,41,220945,Lathe-Frejoth-Metal-Engine-12X36-Lathe----850--Westminster-.htm

>>2579662
Acids, electrolytes (unless they're slightly alkaline), and heat.
--- 2579791
>>2578120
Charcoal works great in my experience. That link says it has trouble even getting up to forging heat, which tells me they're probably just talking out of their ass, I've burned more way steel than had trouble getting up to temp. 
Yeah, you can't use briquettes, it's not even charcoal just compressed sawdust and dirt basically. 
Charcoal puts out basically the same amount of heat per mass ass regular coal, but it is a lot less dense so you have to burn a bigger pile of it for the same effect. On the other hand it's much more pleasant to burn, doesn't form clinker, and while it's a bit more complicated than this charcoal is better at creating a reducing environment which can help prevent scale formation
Coal tends to be a lot cheaper, stores easier because it's more dense, packs tighter and the fire is more controllable since it only wants to burn where you're supplying forced air.

Otherwise that basically fits my experiences. If you're going to use a store bought hammer, which is probably a good idea compared to using a rock, make sure to dress the face. Cleaning up all the sharp edges and nicks helps prevent hammer marks in the surface of the work and makes your stuff look a lot nicer, especially when you're new and your hammer control isn't great so you dig the corners in a lot.
--- 2580578
>>2571790
I'm talking specifically about riveted mail so I can't use stainless because the annealing process will remove the stainless properties.
--- 2580613
>>2579791
Yeah it is not impossible to forge with charcoal. I did find that different brands charcoal produce different result though, some are simply better than others.
But you do have to add more ever so often since it burns quite quickly, unlike the denser coal.
--- 2581509
>>2579744
Do eet.
--- 2582317
>>2579662
Could be staining of the surface mineral buildup or oxide. Or your water is high in residual iron.
--- 2582390
>>2580613
it plays a huge roll what tree is in your batch
--- 2582471
>>2579650
>safer than the oxides produced by stainless
Can you elaborate on how the oxides from stainless are dangerous? Does that mean I want to avoid stainless that looks a bit spotty or rusty, or does it not matter enough?
--- 2582472
>>2582390
>>2580613
in my experience the main ways charcoal differ is density, which is basically how fast a lump is consumed, and how many sparks they throw and how much they like to burst.
There can be really big differences in those, like a bag of mesquite lump charcoal from the hardware store meant for bbqs tends to be pretty dense and consistent, which is presumably why they use it, and when I make a batch out of random tree prunings and 2x4 cutoff ends it can be anything from basically the same to feather light and throw either almost zero sparks or constantly spray them everywhere. They can make different amounts of ash too, but that's probably more a factor of how fast they burn I think.

But as long as the wood was well charcoal-ed it should burn at basically the same temperature as any other, at least theoretically. It's all carbon at the end of the day, and that seems to match my experience. If you're using 2x4 scraps that weigh nothing you have to add a new handful basically every heat but with dense hardwoods it can be every two or three heats. Also obviously varies depending on how big a fire you want and how much air you're giving it.
--- 2582673
How do I improve my hacksaw technique? The blade slides all over the place before I can mark a proper groove, and I'm not confident I can cut out the blanks in picrel with my current skill level
--- 2582702
>>2582673
start on the edge and make a notch, keep the blade at an angle so you're cutting down rather than across
don't cut right on the line, always leave a little spare material and then file or grind down to the final size

also just use an angle grinder with a cutoff disk instead, it'll take 1/20th the time. Wear your eye protection.
--- 2582752
>>2582702
I've been watching safety videos and now fear my angle grinder greatly, but I'll go slowly tomorrow and hopefully avoid life changing injuries
--- 2582764
>>2582752
1) Don't remove the guard, adjust the angle as necessary.
2) Wear a face shield, the $5 jobber from Harbor Freight or wherever is fine, just make sure you buy a shield and not splashguard.
3) Wear shoes, faggot.

There, you're a certified angle-grinding master and you've avoided 99.9% of angle-grinder related accidents. Now if you get hurt you'll know it's because you deserved it.
--- 2582810
>>2582752
4) Don't stand in line with the disk
5) Watch where sparks go to not start a fire
--- 2583023
>>2582673
you know how you center punch to keep a bit from wandering? do the same thing with a cold chisel for hack sawing.
--- 2583142
>>2582673

Make sure your blade is proper teeth-per-inch for what you're cutting.

Make use of blade guides (piece of steel clamped next to the cut) as needed.

Make sure you have a GOOD blade holder that is especially tight.

Consider using the blade as a draw-blade instead of a push-blade.
--- 2583320
>>2582471
>oxides from stainless are dangerous
depends on what is used there, chromium oxide can be a bitch if it gets inside the body. I think anon meant "do not heat to red hot and pulverize", not just simple rust
--- 2584320
>>2583320
I think unless somebody is exposed every day that the potential health issues are null.
--- 2585130
I have a question: what would be the best method for getting a full-metal version of a standard wooden bokken training sword like pic related? Can't seem to find one anywhere to just purchase. I thought of 3 metods that would get the job done but I don't know which one would be best cost-wise if ordered.
1. Make a wax model and then cast it from brass
2. Machine it from a slab of metal
3. Bend and grind/profile Rebar/steel rod
any suggestions would be appreciated. I don't have access to machine shop so if I were to diy my best bet is the rebar aproach followed by bronze casting. I just need a training tool that is denser than wood but has the same dimensions.
--- 2585167
>>2585130
If you just need increased weight you can drill small surface holes and inlay and peen over lead fishing weights. The wood stays strong and you can make it balanced for ease of use or imbalanced for extra training.
--- 2585172
>>2585167
I was considering this, but that solution comes with far too many disadvantages. I think that added weight and structure with holes all over will make it too weak to the point hitting something on accident might fracture it. There is also the balance issue and the fact I'm reluctant to the idea of putting lead in handle, that is held with bare, often sweaty hands. And don't forget asthetics - it will look like a patchwork abomination. Doing it solid-piece-of-metal style is far superior choice.
--- 2585206
>>2562551 (OP)
How well is a machinist paid in the US? I'm in yurop and I can start a machining career at home living with my parents. I already have experience in building engines. I was thinking after a few years I could earn a few hundred thousands a year if I'd come work in the US. Is this a viable plan? I could also go join the AutoCAD team and sit on my ass all day but I love machining.
--- 2585262
>>2562554
computer chips
--- 2585275
>>2585172
Not him but you sound like you don't know what you're talking about.
--- 2585276
>>2585206
>I could also go join the AutoCAD team and sit on my ass all day but I love machining.
Do both
--- 2585401
Have you seen the metallurgists from Hammerfell? They have square crucibles. Square. Crucibles.
--- 2585403
>>2585206
Even a highly experienced, skilled machinist would be lucky to make 100k usd. If they do it's because they run a machine shop.
--- 2585412
>>2585206

Only have a perspective from Southeast US, generally lesser than other places but the last few years have been weird

This applies to mfg environment:

FNG (You), 20k part time
Operator level, 35-45k
Programmer/process engineer level, 55-75k depending.
Automation skill is a plus, cobots, barfeeders, unusual processes and specializations (cutting tool grinding, in my case)

Job shops a shit. They're probably still trying to hang on to programming talent at 50k a year. Lot of druggies
--- 2585444
>>2562551 (OP)
where is the best place to buy steel tubing? I want to build a tallbike
--- 2585480
Made a little brass gondola magnet
--- 2585483
>>2585480
:DDDDDDD
--- 2585484
>>2585480
--- 2585502
>>2585401
>Metal crucible
You n'wah.
--- 2585787
>>2562551 (OP)
I have some rust on some tubing I need to get rid of without damaging the metal's surface. Ive had success with soaking in vinegar for a few hours and then blasting baking soda at it. Wanted to know if I could try the same thing with muriatic acid. Working on mild steel.
--- 2585816
>>2577867
ok, today i had some semi success with tinning paste and a oxy propane torch.
despite building a box from refractory bricks, my 2kw hot air gun couldnt heat it past 170°C.
Why semi? my dumbass decided to do it in two passes, so i only coated the inside of my part. by the time it melted i already oxidized the outside surface. off to the sandblaster tomorrow.
Tinning paste appears to be pretty idiot proof, while zink chloride either instantly vaporized or was blown away from the air gun
--- 2585949
>>2585787
https://www.hoppes.com/cleaners-and-lubricants/traditional-hoppes-9/no.-9-gun-bore-cleaner/P00347.html
--- 2586085
>>2585816
It'll be worth it in the end, anon!

>>2585787
Buy a gun deruster.

>>2585480
::DDDDDD

>>2585444
Local steel dealer. Seriously.

>>2585172
Seriously, small inlays in the central axis don't weaken the wood considerably.
--- 2586094
How does hardening two parts that wear on eachother work if you harden them both to the same degree? Wouldn't two hard parts rubbing together wear just as much as two softer parts wearing on each other?
--- 2586104
Does soaking 1075 in vinegar for a few days to remove milling scale/rust result in a weaker metal?
--- 2586115
>>2585502
Better than a crucible made of ceramic like in the toilet
--- 2586338
>>2586094
Slower rate
--- 2586340
>>2586104
Yes, if you soak it for more than 6 hours, the 1075 gives up on life and becomes aluminum
--- 2586357
I'd really like to learn to weld, but have 0 knowledge. I'm not asking anyone to spoon feed me, I just need to know where to start. Any book recommendations, or good sources to start learning.
--- 2586358
>>2586357
I know the absolute basic difference between stick, MIG, and TIG welding. Could I just buy a stick welder and some safety equipment then just play around with it until I figure it out? Would I end up blowing up the unit or getting electrocuted?
--- 2586418
>>2585480
I have opened this thread, lo and behold, I have lain mine eyes upon observing perfection.

>>2586115
Die, swift!
--- 2586436
>>2586340
Aww
--- 2586675
>>2586358
Welding is generally low voltage so hard to zap yourself dead. Most dangerous part of welding for a beginner is probably the angle grinder. That's not to say there are no other safety hazards. Stick is cheapest to start with.
--- 2586685
>>2586675
>Most dangerous part of welding for a beginner is probably the angle grinder
As one of those beginners with an angle grinder how do I avoid injury? From what's been said in this thread and elsewhere it looks like the key things to watch out for are using proper PPE (glasses and faceshield), using the guard and handle and making straight cuts with cutoffs rather than trying to grind with them
--- 2586742
>>2578567
ok anon i ignored that first, but i have a second part i can only electroplate due to unusual shape and being hollow.
You know anything about this? 
Last year i tried making an electrolyte with vinegar and another with citric acid, didnt work out tho. What kind of acid do i need for tin?
The internet is full of copycat nickel plating, for tin i find nothing
--- 2586804
>>2586685
>>2586675
Do I really need an angle grinder just starting out? I figured I'd use a miter saw for most cuts, while I'm still learning.
--- 2586822
>>2586804
Yeah face shield is good. Better to use leather rather than cloth gloves - less degloving risks. I always make sure the sparks aren't going into me - not because I'm afraid of the sparks, but because that's the direction the wheel will probably go if it explodes. Don't to much force on it and never grind aluminum except with a wheel specifically designed to do so. 
Also fuck wire wheels. One of those flew off and embedded into the bone of my finger once. Though I didn't know it the next day until I lifted something and wondered why my finger hurt so much lol. Was buried so deep had to have surgery to get it out (on workers comp). 
If you just want to learn how to weld on practice pieces you could probably get away with just a chipping hammer and wire brush. But as time goes on you'll eventually find it essential.
--- 2586826
>>2586822
>>2586685
>>2586675
I appreciate the advice guys.
--- 2586828
>>2585130
Put a steel pipe around a wooden stick. Screws to secure. Wall ah.
--- 2586832
I have never welded before, but I need to learn how to weld so I can do some projects of mine. I will be welding aluminum tubing, and all sorts of steel. I need the welds to be clean and strong. 

Any recommendations for a tig welding setup?
--- 2587190
>>2586832
Go to a community college and practice there if it's offered in the area.
--- 2587274
What's the best angle for hacksawing this out? I've been trying to do this with a vice but it's painfully awkward due to the length of the piece and the metal that gets in the way
--- 2587322
I want a metal hand. What metal is malleable enough at body temp to allow movement if I coated my hand with it
--- 2587353
>>2587322
Silver latex
--- 2587387
>>2565199
Beverage cans are a really shit alloy.
--- 2587803
Was too heavy, so the short term solution was to make it even heavier by clamping a counterweight to it. Long term solution is to get ripped. Or maybe just make a new holder.
--- 2588132
>>2587322
Bismuth
--- 2588147
>>2588132
>>2587322
Sorry, I meant gallium
--- 2588179
>>2587803
kek, the long handle will not save you when the bottom lid inevitable fails
--- 2588519
I just discovered that "zamak" is a thing. I've got a bucket of brass scraps that may have some zamak pieces in it, because they were too dense to be aluminum, non-magnetic, and not hard enough to be stainless. I can probably pick them out again, but, if I wanted to, could I just dump the lot into the pot, heat the furnace to like 900°F, and expect to be able to dump out all the zamak to separate it from the brass?

Note that I don't care too much about the composition of the final alloy, so some contamination from the brass is fine. I just don't want to have it turn into some kind of flux for something in the brass and create some unusable bastard alloy of the two.

In the same vein, could I do similar to differentiate brass and bronze? I'm pretty sure I've got those two piles well-separated, based on what the parts were actually used for, but I've got a couple wildcards in the form of old door handles that I can't quite figure out.
--- 2588544
>>2588519
>Note that I don't care too much about the composition of the final alloy
You should. Lead and zinc should never mix; if you get lead from the brass in your zamak it will disintegrate over the years. The lead impurities corrode between the zinc grains and your casting basically crumbles.
--- 2588547
>>2588544

Honestly, I care a lot less about the brass affecting the zamak than I do the zamak affecting the brass. I have way more of the brass, and the zamak is way cheaper.
--- 2588780
I asked this in the woodwork general but y'all may know more...I made a new handle for an old sword I have as the old handle broke. I have an idea to melt down some brass scraps I have laying around and dip the pommel into it to give it a rough brass cap. Will the metal even coat it? Will it just burn the wood off?
Its cherry wood finished with BLO and an oil based stain.
--- 2589066
>>2587274
Trial and error and a REALLY deep saw.

>>2587803
Based and balance pilled.

>>2588519
Yess, but that is a huge waste of energy. Use dilute HCl acid. Zamak fizzes like a bitch. As for brass/bronze, the acid test MAY work as well for brass fizzing vs. Bronze...

>>2588780
Sorry, hot metal gassifies wood and blows off any metal before it cools. You can pound a super hot brass cap (pre formed) over the end if you wet the wood and then quench it on tight but that sounds hard for no gain.
--- 2589494
>>2562551 (OP)
Forging old school style.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-7bz7bmDg4 [Embed]
--- 2590771
So retarded question,

I have a small induction furnace and a giant pile of scrap copper wiring. How does one process / purify scrap copper into "pure" .999 copper? I really want to make a bunch of pure copper ingots and would love some general direction.
--- 2590774
>>2590771
>I have a small induction furnace and a giant pile of scrap copper wiring. How does one process / purify scrap copper into "pure" .999 copper?
Heating and skimming off the slag on top is most of it. Some stuff like oxides needs chemical flux and washout, but you can get pretty high just doing it by hand over and over.
--- 2590775
>>2590774
>Heating and skimming off the slag on top is most of it.
also pouring, to rid it of the denser contaminants.
--- 2590778
>>2590774
Yah from what I understand, I can get to 99.95 fairly easy with skimming and fluxing, my main confusion is how does one tell that 0.049% to fuck off?

Are they just lying? How do you even test for that?
--- 2590783
>>2590778
>how does one tell that 0.049% to fuck off?
with exponentially more expense as that number gets smaller

>How do you even test for that?
lots of different readings like density, conductivity, and oxidation rate, jammed together into a calibrated average. Eventually you'd reach patented or trade secret processes.
--- 2590808
>>2590771
>How does one process / purify scrap copper into "pure" .999 copper?
By being a massive refining company with access to industrial processes and scientific equipment. /diy/ metal refining is a meme.
--- 2590809
>>2590808
>/diy/ metal refining is a meme
/diy/ metal refining is more than enough to markup and sell shiny copper shapes to normies at markets/faires/etsy for like 300% profit.
--- 2590936
>>2590783
So are like .999 gold bars and such that come from small refineries a meme?
--- 2590939
>>2590774
>>2590771
>>2590778
Copper wire is basically pure copper to start. Just label it as 99.9 copper and let lack of reading comprehension win.
--- 2590940
What type of drill bit sharpener actually works best but isn't so expensive that you are better off just buying new bits?
--- 2590951
>>2590809
I never said you couldn't make paperweights, but getting a .999 fine bar at home is not worth it and even if you did it would still be a paperwight.
--- 2590952
>>2590940
Bench grinder with a fine stone.
--- 2590959
>>2590951
>.999 fine bar at home
The point is to make it into something else afterward, not a rectangular prism of stock metal.
--- 2591010
>>2590771
Electrochemical after a good skim and fluxing. But proving 4 9's vs. 5, 6 9's requires exacting analysis. Just label it whatever you want. :^)

>>2590936
They use chemical refinement (Bromine).

>>2590940
Bench grinder and a hand guide jig + practice.
--- 2591445
Industrial strength vibrator (insert jokes here) is ready to go. Going to see if this helps plaster adhere to the preform better and also if it helps casting quality.
--- 2591503
>>2562551 (OP)
My first serious forge, before coating the wool in castable refractory. Not having a welder was wild man.
--- 2591505
>>2591503
--- 2591536
>>2591503
>>2591505
This is what I was replacing, my actual first forge. Was a paint can.
--- 2591553
>>2591445
>(insert jokes here)
well, you should definitely try some https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibratory_finishing on yourself.
--- 2591589
>>2591536
My first anvil that wasn't a 12lb sledgehammer head, gave some machine shop guy $20.
--- 2591945
im pretty new to oxy fuel setups and have a second hand burner that looks kinda like pic related.
Is it normal for the needle valves to have a lot of slipstick? They turn smooth but getting them to turn takes effort.
Doing fine adjustments to the flame takes a lot of concentration without overshooting and extinguishing the burnerm, especially when cold.
--- 2591960
>>2591945
Thing I noticed is that depending on what your setup was originally designed for (industrial welding/cutting, private shit or even tiny things like in a gold smiths shop) your valves work optimally with more or less pressure. Try using a bit more pressure on both oxygen and acetylene - don't forget to adjust while your torch is open.
--- 2591968
>>2591960
will do
fuel pressure is a funny topic, as you will find 10 conflicting takes on what is and isnt optimal and somehow they all work.
Even the instructions sheet supplied with the torch differs from the instruction sheet supplied by the same manufacturer for the same hand piece but 30 years later lol.
The torch was meant for brazing / cutting in a metal working shop.
What pressure would you eyeball for such a setup?
--- 2591971
>>2591968
>fuel pressure is a funny topic, as you will find 10 conflicting takes
I made the exact same experiences. I got myself a new setup and it came with pretty low pressure specs on the paper.
In welding school they teach you bullshit like "always use 7 1/4 psi acetylene and 29psi oxygen" which is okay as rule of thumb but it fucking depends on your setup, the wear on it and if you wanna be strict even on temperature and shit.
Just try around until you get the hang of it, just remember to not put acetylene over 1 bar/14 psi or things could get ugly.
--- 2592054
is there a chemical way to remove a thin rust layer down to bare iron? it seems the common acids leave behind a thin boundary layer that has to be further mechanically removed, but i have no way of accessing that spot
--- 2592058
>>2592054
Acid works if you have the perfect neutralizing agent. I think caustic soda and some acid works best, now don't ask me if it was muriatic,citric or phosphoric acid was the best one.
--- 2592064
>>2592058
phosporic acid creates an iron phosphate boundary layer
i have to avoid that
--- 2592083
>>2592054
You need multi-stage flushes and an electrical step with carefully selected electrolytes but that sounds like some advanced requirements.

Painting/plating/welding/soldering etc. either stick fine on thin surface layers or do chemically react through the layer for a metallurgical bond. What are you doing?
--- 2592085
>>2592083
soldering, having issues with pinholes, guess thanks to burned flux or iron oxides forming on the surface. ok i will try vinegar, but that will take a day or two
--- 2592087
>>2592054
Lye, but you have to be very careful about not spreading it around.
--- 2592331
No machinist thread up atm so I'll ask here. 

I'm learning CAD and trying to wrap my head around material expenses. If I needed 4140 round stock about an inch and a half diameter and 6 inches wide, what is a realistic price for that these days? 

I would just go search up metals on google but I assume actual machinists or metal autists would have better sources than google would cough up.
--- 2592349
>>2592331
I like Discount Steel and Metals Depot, but your local industrial park or whatever will be cheaper once you make friends there
--- 2592379
>>2592349
>your local industrial park or whatever will be cheaper once you make friends there
You mean they'll cut me deals, or I'll have to talk my way into letting me buy from them at all?
--- 2592401
>>2592349
>You mean they'll cut me deals, or I'll have to talk my way into letting me buy from them at all?

No idea what he means, but a local metal yard should just be straight-up cheaper, at least for mild steel and the more common alloys. Most will sell to the public, at least around my area they do.

>>2592331
>I assume actual machinists or metal autists would have better sources than google would cough up.

You assume only half correctly. Yes, the autists and machinists will have a better idea, but it's only going to be applicable to their locale and when you're asking. Metal is a commodity. Metal yards often update their prices weekly, if not daily. Regional demand can wildly swing the price. The only solid way to know what to expect to pay is to call up a local place and get a price check

All I know off the top of my head is that steel costs over the last few years are giving me depression. My most common profile, 2x2x1/8", was like $40-45 for a 20ft the last time I bought a decent bit of it. The most recent rate I got was over $80. I'd be happy if it even went back down to $60 at this point, but I'm losing hope.

Don't buy much alloy stuff there. I don't use it often, and it's cheaper to buy oddball offcuts online, usually. Shipping isn't nearly as much as a dealbreaker on 20lb of 4xxx or brass the way it is on 10-20ft lengths of mild steel.
--- 2592420
>>2592331
Get three or more quotes from local metal suppliers. Prices change constantly and the market is not stable.
--- 2592775
>>2590771
Review an industralization process and go as far as you can, i think plates are the best presentation
--- 2592845
Say I have a bronze alloy exactly the same as the composition of old pennies, how do i separate the copper from the zinc?
--- 2592864
>>2592401
>The only solid way to know what to expect to pay is to call up a local place and get a price check

That's what machine and fab shops do. I used to order metals for a welding school and use the same vendors as my shopownerbro. Prices vary all the time such than many quotes are only valid for a short while.
--- 2592867
>>2592845
You melt the zinc out of them. Stupid idea though but autspergs like melting shit.
--- 2592915
Made this right before quarantine hit, 1st ever knife. full of flaws but spent hours working the handle to make sure it fit my hand perfectly. fucked up the grind on the edge 
was in the middle of making a big ass hunting knife when i lost access to the workshop and ended up moving, so I have an unetched damascus bowie blank in a storage unit until I can find a way to get it back. Still need to grind a bevel on one side, heat treat, temper, etch, put an edge on it, and make a handle.
but dammit I want that fucking knife to go innawoods
--- 2592917
>>2592845
zinc melts aroung 800 degrees, copper melts much higher, like 2k. heat it up to around 1k and let as much zinc melt out as possible.
then take the copper and break it into as many pieces as you can for maximum surface area and drop it into HCL to dissolve off the rest of the zinc.
do this a bunch and you should have pretty pure copper.
--- 2592926
>>2592915
What's your maker's mark?
--- 2593066
>>2592926
still need to come up with one. I've designed one but it might be a bit too complex, a raccoon face. havent implemented it in anything yet
--- 2593145
>>2592867
>>2592917
I've read somewhere that alloys will have a new melting point that is different from its components. Doesn't this mean the zinc won't just melt out?
--- 2593154
>>2593145
it depends how well mixed the whole thing is. If its a homogeneous alloy then you're right, and youll have to follow a chemical purification process, but if the copper and zinc are still separate within your ingot then you should be able to melt most of it out
--- 2593155
>>2593145
alloy melting point depends on the contents present, but it is always lower than the highest base metal. problem with zínc in copper alloys is it vaporizes partially well before you ever reach pouring temp
--- 2593156
>>2593155
isnt that a good thing if you want to get the zinc out?
--- 2593176
>>2593156
i imagine you will never get rid of all of it, or need a blower pipe or something. by the end your copper will have soaked up a ton hydrogen an will be shit too, keeping metal liquid for a prolonged time is not a good thing. 
btw, this penny? wtf anon
--- 2593579
>>2592845
You can't. It requires electrochemical refinement. Note the huge alpha range - that is a proper solution alloy.
--- 2593632
>>2593145
It won't melt out, but zinc has a very high vapor pressure curve. So it is possible to distill it out, since distillation works by conversion to and from a gaseous state or from multicrystal structures (see below).

>>2593155
Depends if the alloy contains multiple crystalline phases such as pearlite, martensite, or precipitation hardened steels. Brass is a single crystal AFAIK, so the melting point will be the same for both alloyed elements.
--- 2593808
>>2593176
Pre-82
--- 2593833
I appreciate your responses anon. What I'm understanding from this is that it's probably not worth the average persons time to melt old pennies, because it's not a simple as melting in a furnace and skimming off the zinc.
--- 2593938
>>2593833
Old pennies (>>2593808) are 95% copper, what do you need 100% purity for?
--- 2593953
>>2593938
Selling to preppers for a 50x profit.
95% is good purity, but if I can get 99% it is more marketable and you can't be prosecuted for it.
--- 2594013
Since the copper skin isn't alloyed with the zinc you can just melt the zinc out. I did it once, if you don't believe me just hit a penny with a propane torch and see what happens
--- 2594022
>>2562551 (OP)
Are these instructions any good for refining aluminum from aluminosilicate clay:
>Preparation: Collect the aluminosilicate clay and clean it to remove impurities such as organic matter and other minerals. Crush and grind the clay into a fine powder.
>Alkaline fusion: Mix the ground clay with a strong alkali, such as sodium hydroxide or sodium carbonate. Heat the mixture in a furnace to a high temperature (typically 800-1000°C) to break down the aluminosilicate structure, forming water-soluble sodium aluminate.
>Leaching: Dissolve the sodium aluminate in water, and then filter the solution to remove undissolved residues and impurities. The resulting filtrate contains dissolved alumina in the form of sodium aluminate.
>Precipitation: Add a precipitating agent, such as carbon dioxide, to the sodium aluminate solution. This will cause aluminum hydroxide (Al(OH)3) to precipitate out of the solution. Filter, wash, and dry the aluminum hydroxide.
>Calcination: Heat the aluminum hydroxide to a high temperature (1000-1200°C) in a calcination furnace. This process decomposes the aluminum hydroxide into alumina (Al2O3) and water vapor. Collect the resulting alumina, which can now be processed further to obtain metallic aluminum.
>Aluminum production: Use the Hall-Héroult process to produce metallic aluminum from the alumina. In this process, the alumina is dissolved in a molten electrolyte, typically a mixture of cryolite (Na3AlF6) and other salts, in an electrolytic cell. Pass an electric current through the cell to reduce aluminum ions to metallic aluminum at the cathode. The molten aluminum collects at the bottom of the cell and can be tapped off periodically.
--- 2594031
>>2594022
didn't read, but isn't refining aluminum from clay retarded if you're not doing it industrially?
--- 2594044
>>2594031
Industries collapse all the time. What do you think the Bronze Age Collapse was?
--- 2594047
>>2594044
I guess if your intent is to prepare for something of near-apocalyptic scale, and focus more on rebuilding industry eventually rather than just immediate survival, that makes sense.
--- 2594623
>>2594022
Yes, but entirely uneccessary given how much scrap Al will exist in the apocalypse.
--- 2595106
Here is a piece of stainless steel, its pretty hard. What steps do I have to do to turn it into a blade? Im thinking:
1.grind/cut/file it into a knife shape
2.heat it red hot
3. Quench it in oil
4. Sharpen the blade
Will this work? I want to make a small whittling knife
--- 2595193
>>2595106
>Will this work?
no
stainless steels are often austenic and carbon low. in short, you cannot heat treat them, they already posses their maximum hardness in their natural state
--- 2595215
>>2595193
stainless steels are autistic????? fuck!!!!
--- 2595227
>>2595215
ok, next time you get a sneed and feed joke instead
--- 2595252
>>2592845
Fractional crystallization. Dissolve both metals in acid and evaporate the solution off until you start to get crystals forming. The major metal will saturate the solution first since it is more abundant and will crystallize out, while the minor metal will remain in solution since their is still enough liquid to keep it all dissolved. In this case the copper will crystallize out first and as long as you don't evaporate too much the zinc won't crystallize. You won't get all the copper out in pure form but you can get a lot
--- 2595341
>>2595193
Yes i did realise it is non magnetic, that explains why. I also tried to head treat it but its maybe only a tiny bit harder. Oh well, it was a learning process
--- 2595526
>>2595341
Take an old kitchen knife and rework that insted
--- 2595674
>>2595526
Good idea
--- 2596636
I've been looking into reprocessing scrap iron into higher quality steel. Say I electrolytically purify the iron, how do I go about turning it back into tool grade carbon steel? I was thinking of making a charcoal kiln since I already have a coal forge. I imagine I would have to use a clay crucible, but what other options would work? Definitely couldn't use graphite as that would fuck up the carbon content. Once it is molten, how would I add carbon? Just add charcoal powder, or would I need a purer form of carbon? Also how good is mangalloy? I hear it doesn't hold an edge well, but would it work well for impact tools like hammers?

>>2586742
>Last year i tried making an electrolyte with vinegar and another with citric acid, didnt work out tho
I don't know much about tin metal, but carboxylic acids like acetic acid will dimerize to form hydrocarbons and CO2 during electrolysis, which destroys the acid. The reaction is called Kolbe electrolysis
--- 2596849
>>2596636
>which destroys the acid. The reaction is called Kolbe electrolysis
might be, thing is i saw it on youtube working plenty fine with copper.
The thing i learned in the meantime is, you cannot coat iron in an acidic plating bath, you need a copper or even better, zinc nickle subcoat through a basic plating bath.

I also learned why my hot coat didnt work out in the end. i bought the felder homegamer flux... next week another try with he real halogenated shit
--- 2597158
>>2596636
Actually, it is better to float out all the other alloys with chemically active metals (Na, Si, etc.) and blast it with O2 to oxidize anything left to form a slag. That very low alloy material is then alloyed with proper additivesand mixing. Carbon is the easiest to blow out with O2 so fear not about carbon content until the very end.
>>2596849
Always use the shit that kills Earth and man; it works way better.
--- 2597923
I'm planning on electroplating a simple steel part in brass. The part is going to go into an heirloom item, so long-term stability is very important. It will be in constant contact with wood. Do you think garage-tier electroplating would work well enough to keep the steel part from rusting, and causing problems to the wood it's partially embedded in? 

If it did, would it instead be better for me to flame-blue the entire steel part, and then electroplate it? 


Just to be clear, I don't know what I'm doing at all.
--- 2597980
>>2597923
Is the heirloom room exposed to humidity and thermal cycles? If not just lightly laquer or even hot oil dip polymerization it. Or flame blue AND hot oil dip immediately.

Anyway, it is always better to plate multiple times thinly with a few nobler metals if possible before a brass layer. Think Cu-Ni-Cu or even Ag-Cu.

Also you can't plate an oxidized (blued) part unless you do some interesting chemical depositions.
--- 2598070
>>2597923
the interesting thing about brass is, a drill/die grinder brass wire wheel will directly deposit onto steel if the part is heated up some or you spin it at 15k rpm
no idea about the level of protections this provides thou
--- 2598945
>>2598070
The 'ole spicy wheel brass plate.
--- 2599981
Bamp.
--- 2600084
>>2590774
>you can get pretty high just doing it by hand over and over
Not sure whether that's a sexual or drug reference
--- 2600942
>>2562551 (OP)
Questionable 3am idea hit me and I figured I'd run it by you fine gentlemen. I own a savage mk ii 22lr rifle. The rifle is great, the magazine (design and manufacture) is trash. No aftermarket mags exist and people go so far as to epoxy weld and sand the mags to make them sit well and feed. So I wanted to know, assuming one has CAD knowledge and a small CNC machine, how hard would it be to design and build a non-shit magazine? 

By necessity it's single stack and light guage metal so a simple stamping die should be a feasible project to design and build right? Then it's just a matter of actual welding them unlike the originals which are just pressed into shape.

Any issue with this plan? And yes I obviously intended to do this legally and with gov't sanction if as a business
--- 2600944
>>2600942
Forgot picrel. They're steel, though I think I'd be able to manage aluminum given the space afforded by the relatively loose magwell dimensions
--- 2601020
>>2600942
>Legally

Are you some kinda Canadian? In 'Merica you can make your own production line for 5000rd mags (in all 50 states even once the lawsuits are all settled) if you felt like it and that's between you, God, the guy that buys them, and the IRS (pay your taxes or they kill you). 

But yes, they picked the cheapest manufacturing method which means it is easy for thirdworld stampers to make and easy to reverse engineer. That is designed to a cost so improvement is likely very easy.

I just recommend that you are careful with welds. It will easily distort the sheet steel. Consider a spot welding process instead of a full bead. You can even make a glueable assembly with a few spots for strategic welds. Most glues can survive a few seconds next to a small weld spot.
--- 2601141
Who here makes jewelry?
I wanna make a ring and I don't really know where to start with the materials, but if some rando in the 1800s can do it with a bunch of hand tools then so can I.
Anyway, I'd like to make it out of silver, and set a small glass oval in the middle that lays somewhat flush into the ring (instead of protruding out from an extra piece of metal, so basically I'd like to hollow out a bit of metal to lay the glass oval in and have it naturally bulge out from there). I'd also like the ring itself to be wide at the glass/gem and taper down sort of like picrel, and I'd also like to carve some sort of design next to the glass. 
Has anyone here done this sort of thing?
--- 2601179
>>2601141
You can do it several different ways. You can form a sheet of silver around a mandrel and solder it. Or you can carve it from wax and do lost wax casting, or you could do it in cuddlefish bone
--- 2601269
>>2601141
Hot propane torch + hammer + Steel forms (metal pipe) + thick Gold or Silver sheet or coin/round. 

Beat a hole in it, anneal with torch. Beat the sheet round, anneal with torch. Bert the loop of shert rounder, anneal with torch +n... Put stone in the hole, apply slight amount of jewlery adhesive, peen the metal edge over the stone.