diy/2591951.txt

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--- 2591951
I want to get into engine building "on a budget" and an LSX isn't an option because they are hard and expensive to get here. Plus I don't have that much space to store shit.
So I figured why not make it as small and simple as it gets. 
I can get my hand on the following:
A Fiat engine from the 90's, inline 4 2-valve 0.9 litre engine that makes barely 40 horsepower.
Cast iron block, aluminum head and OHV valvetrain.

Since the engine is so small, cheap and available - if I went for maximum HP with what I can do myself, what can I do?

I figured out the following:
Small engine means we'll suited for high rpm's, that's how the old timers did it back in the day. Aggressive cam, head porting, sheet metal intake, headers and exhaust. 
How much rpm can the valvetrain with hydros and pushrods take, though? I think 8000 is the highest I can do "safely" or I'll have to change the swap the hydros which I don't really want.

Cast iron block is we'll suited for turbo or supercharger I guess.

Milling the head and using high octane fuel is also an option.

EFI or carb? EFI can be tweaked alot more exact but I don't think it'll make a big difference in the end as a well chosen carb will do the job just as fine.

What about getting another engine and making a tiny inline-8 out of them? Considering how tiny they are it would be an viable option.

I've read in some books about making your own cylinder heads, but that is really a huge project. I'm living near a huge metal-industry area though and there are lots of machining shops nearby that I could ask for very accurate work though.


>Inb4 hurr durrr eurofag muh coal Rollin Cummins diesel
>Inb4 hurr I'm rich as fuck and had my engine tuned for 20.000 bucks in the shop why dont you do that 
Please no pretentious faggotry ITT, I'm a mechanic on a budget with only a 6x3x3 garage. I've been wanting to do this since years and now I've finally have the basic capabilities for it. Only serious discussions.
--- 2591956
Sage, Sorry for punctuation and grammar mistakes, phone keeps autocorrecting things into oblivion.

Interesting things I recently read about: Hemispherical heads and valves positioning and on the other hand some interesting lean-combustion cylinder head design Jaguar used in the 90's called "Fireball" head with one valve sitting deeper and using turbulence for optimizing combustion - but that shit is too complicated for someone who can't afford machining a new head from scratch anyways.
--- 2592059
>>2591951 (OP)
I doubt anyone is going to help you because what you're trying to do is completely fkin retarded. First to make ANY decent amount of power nowadays you need forced induction, all that n/a "old-school" power you're trying to make is dumb af. Porting, polishing, high duration cams, domed pistons, all bullshit. Does it make more power? Yes but we're talking 3k to make like literally maybe 25-50hp and like what 10lbs tq? You should be using at least a better platform, one where the manufacturer has already done a lot of the work, flow wise, your best bet is to rebuild turbos you get from the jy and figure out where the weak spots on your platform are and go from there. Jesus there is no way you've been a mechanic for a while or you would know these things
--- 2592063
>>2591951 (OP)
>What about getting another engine and making a tiny inline-8 out of them?

sure
--- 2592065
>>2591951 (OP)
Also efi or carb, are you serious? If you're trying to make more power (from tiny ass shit euro engines) you're gonna need efi, you're gonna need a working knowledge of ecu tuning with an open ecu or build your own a la mega squirt. The fact that you're trying to circumvent tuning shows you're either a dumbass boomer or a dumbass zoomer. Either way you have a LOT of learning to do
--- 2592071
>>2592059
>>2592063
>>2592065
Why do Americans get so angry when they see or read about things they haven't seen before? Everything I wrote about had been done before and are viable factors. 

Also, the engine design goes back to to the 50s and the Abarth version from the 80s - which is also OHV 2 valve - makes 75 horsepowers.
--- 2592072
>>2591951 (OP)
Stick with 2 strokes?
--- 2592073
>>2592072
Haven't thought about that and haven't even heard about something like that done before to be honest. I like the idea. But damn! That would require a lot of redesign for the valvetrain. 

On the other hand, I read about the engine block also being used as Diesel in another model. Gonna think about it.
--- 2592078
>>2592063
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_engine
>>2592065
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/carburetor-vs-fuel-injection-we-put-both-to-the-test-on-ls-engine/
>>2592059
Am not even gonna answer this one, you deserve to learn shit the hard way

It's not a shame if you don't know something, especially regarding technical stuff - but for the love of god don't act like you know about everything. You are gonna make a fool of yourself - that is, if you leave your basement and talk to real people.
--- 2592084
>>2592078
Shut your stupid ass up, nowhere did I say a carb can't make more power, a carb can. Problem is you need to know your engine, when you're a retard who's modifying your engine mechanically you're gonna have to do a lot of trial/error to get that carb running proper. Also he's after power, how's the carb gonna react to boost? Partial throttle boost? Oh electric carb you say? Why not yet idk..fuckin efi?

>Am not even gonna answer this one
No please go ahead answer it you mongoloid what type of gains is he looking at, hp/$, by doing it the old school way?
Just shut the fuck up
--- 2592086
>>2592078
Did you even help? All you did was cursory Google searches to try and tear down (constructive) criticism. What should the op do then? Enlighten us big brain
--- 2592088
>>2592086
>Posters:4
Right you can't enlighten us because you were just the op samefagging around
Unironically kys
--- 2592090
>>2592084
>>2592086
>>2592088
Damn, you're angry. I suggest you come again when puberty's over. Finishing school helps with the lack of knowledge.
--- 2592092
>>2592090
Good luck with your .9 liter engine Ahmed, you're gonna need it.
Sage
--- 2592093
nos bro, nos
nos and methanol injection for big gains, bro
slap on a chinese ebay turbo, just make sure you install a high volume oil pump, and use cast iron rings and make sure you gap them a lot larger than a NA engine needs.
bro this build is gonna be so sick
you sound so humble, bro 
make sure you slap a bunch of anime stickers all over the car too when youre done
--- 2592102
Probably the best you can do is to port and polish your heads, run them on some sort of flow bench and try and get them all flowing equally, port match your exhaust and intake. CC your combustion chamber in the heads and try to get them all identical, 3 angle valve job, and balance your rotating assembly. Could definitely get the head shaved off at a machine shop to bump compression ratio up. Roller lifters and roller rockers for smoother, less hp robbing valve train. Order up some differing cam profiles for more valve lift and duration. 

Then other than that it'll be small tweaking here and there and running it on a dyno to see if it improved or hurt your numbers. Lots of trial and error...
--- 2592114
Build a Quasiturbine Rotary engine. They're small and can be fabricated w/o machine tools.
--- 2592422
>>2591951 (OP)
Serious? Choose a car before choosing an engine, or since you're a third worlder do motorbikes which are much better to learn on. Any single cylinder four stroke for starters.
--- 2592570
>>2591951 (OP)
zoomers always worship efi and it might give a few more hp but its not guaranteed. good ole webers either double sidedrafts dcoe or a single downdraft dgav is perfectly viable and extremely tuneable. hardcore level is motorcycle carbs, me and brother did this on a samurai 1,3L once with gsxr 750 carbs. cheaper than webers but a bitch to tune.
lay a plan from start, for instance you dont raise compression if you plan to turbocharge it later on.
get a cheap, common, tiny manual shitbox and get to work. if you fail just throw another used engine in it.
--- 2592581
>>2591951 (OP)
>A Fiat engine
Not a good place to start.
--- 2592642
>>2592570
Most zoomers probably don't even know what a carb or efi is
--- 2592681
>>2592071
We think you’re dumb because when hobby mechanics do this, they use an engine that lots of other people modify and has catalogues full of bolt on performance parts. I did this myself in high school with a small block ford v8, its not hard if you aren’t insisting on breaking new ground/doing things you will need a mill for.
--- 2592690
>>2591951 (OP)
You're trying to get into engine building on a budget, but everything you're posting about is expansive. Having heads made? That amount of cash would rent you a bigger space. 
I suspect this is a larp thread, so I'll stop there. 

>What about getting another engine and making a tiny inline-8 out of them?
It's been done, but I suspect it's outside of your skillset and capabilities. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCYhFfgYfMQ&t=1s [Embed]
I'd scale back a bit. Try rebuilding an engine successfully, first. So, I'll bite, knowing this is probably a troll - what's your experience?
--- 2592703
>>2591951 (OP)
>Small engine means we'll suited for high rpm's
Yes, there are some advantages a smaller form factor has over larger engines.

>How much rpm can the valvetrain with hydros and pushrods take, though?
Components have ratings. Rebuilding to spec should allow your engine to run safely at whatever the book says. Aftermarket improvements should list specifications and why/how they're superior to stock. I'd recommend improving the engine by using performance parts where common points of failure have been identified before other upgrades. Get a sheet of paper and do up a flowchart to help you think through which components are affected as you push beyond the ratings of the engine. For newer engines, you can find better guides for more precise specs. For this thing, I'd guess that you'll be more interested in just overbuilding weak spots.

>Cast iron block is we'll suited for turbo or supercharger
Depends, but yes. Cast iron tends to withstand some kinds of abuse better than aluminum. Don't rely on it though, pre-empt failure and inspect thoroughly for hairline cracks. Repair sleeves can do wonders but only if you install them before performance parts.

>Milling the head and using high octane fuel
You likely will need high octane fuel to stop detonation/etc if you add a turbo or supercharger anyways.

>EFI or carb?
You'll hear arguments for both. Do whatever you understand better. It's a 90's Fiat: I'd celebrate if it runs in the first place.

>What about getting another engine and making a tiny inline-8 out of them?
I wouldn't unless you've got two dozen identical engines and feel like breaking most of them.

>I've read in some books about making your own cylinder heads
Difficult. Maybe save this until you're a pro. You'll get more performance out of other upgrades anyways.
--- 2592710
>>2592703
Flowchart is best idea I've heared in a while. You sound like you've done this before.
--- 2592719
>>2592690
>what's your experience
I'm a journeyman. What's there to tell, this place is filled with retards that talk big on the internet but would probably run home to their mama when shit gets stressfull in the shop.
 If I told you I can properly diagnose a car that isn't running without some gay ass testing device and fix it or properly repair a rusted fender you wouldn't believe me anyways. Most of my experience is with agricultural and construction machines. Huge tires, repairing transmissions and carbs or big diesel engines. I haven't got 30 years experience but I'm certified.
I wanted to talk about engines, all I got was a bunch of angry kids who's only qualification is their driving license.
--- 2592737
>>2592719
>I wanted to talk about engines, all I got was a bunch of angry kids who's only qualification is their driving license
It's 4chan, what the fuck did you expect?
Engine building is probably better suited to other forums. It has a skillset that's beyond most shadetree mechanics, but again, I'd scale back - learn how to tear down, inspect, and rebuild a short block, that's the really hard part. It's why most people don't fuck with a short block, because the tolerances are tight and most people don't have the tools/knowhow/mechines to work on them properly, like rebalancing a crank, or replacing the bearings. Same with heads - they have to be done right, and it requires machining tools out of the reach of most. 
But bolting shit onto the block? Way easier. I'd bet most things you think of, have been done - and luckily, like the video I linked, you can see other's mistakes. 
And, like anything, just get your hands dirty, and learn from your fuck ups. And stop expecting 4chan to help.
--- 2592805
Op honestly why are you in /diy/ and not in /o/. They'll probably would be more helpful?
--- 2592814
>>2591951 (OP)
Find your engine and watch videos? But pick a good engine not some <1 liter shitbox engine. There are hundreds on LS, 5.0, 6bt, various i6s.
Don't be a ricer with some 4 banger as those are gay.
--- 2592878
>>2591951 (OP)
>A Fiat engine from the 90's, inline 4 2-valve 0.9 litre engine that makes barely 40 horsepower.
>wordswordswords
You clearly have no idea what is actually involved in building an engine, anon, but that's alright, everyone has to start somewhere.

You seem to be putting the cart before the horse, to start with - there's not much point "building" an engine if you're not clear on what use it will have. What car is it going to be in, and what application will that car have? Hillclimb? Drag racing? Rallycross? Street driving? Different builds are required for different applications.

Your engine of choice is questionable at best, unless you're able to get a range of cheap aftermarket parts for it where you are then I'd highly recommend looking at an engine that is better suited for performance applications and has a strong modding community with available parts and knowledge. If you're interested in 4 cylinder engines, there's plenty of stuff available to play around with that takes well to performance enhancements or even a simple tune, like the Audi 1.8T or the Honda K24.

If you can answer what kind of car and use you're planning on building this thing for, what your budget is, and what country you're in, it would make giving advice a lot easier.
--- 2594219
>>2592059
Toyota 2.5 Atkinson cycle hybrid, yeet the exhaust cam, replace with an intake one from a junk engine, move the timing...with injectors and a pump, you can get 200+hp on stock ECU
--- 2594499
>>2591951 (OP)
You're from europe?
Why bother with old ass fiat engine when you can easily get fiat 1.4 t-jet, vag 1.8t (not TFSI),, 6 cyl bmw, maybe f4r from clio sport or f7r from megane or f4rt, mercedes m111, honda k20 and so much more. you will have cheap parts and it will be super easy to get information online.
>EFI or carb?
>Only serious discussions.
KEK
--- 2594711
>>2594219
Fug, came into the thread to recomend this
>>2591951 (OP)
On the off chance that you aren't just larping (because some of the shit you said is actually pretty expensive), your best bet is to choose some engine that has had many iterations, like (just saying this as an example, not saying this is the one you should get because some parts for it are getting expensive) the Nissan L series, where you can pick and choose things such as heads and crankshafts from different generations to make the "ultimate" version that the manufacturer never made themselves. As far as making an engine rev high, for starters you should check where in the rev range it makes most of its power, it would be a pretty pointless exercise to make an engine rev up to 10k if the powerband drops off at 6k. Also if you're going forced induction, get EFI, not to be a kill joy but there's a reason most don't do carbed turbo builds.
As for the fiat engine , I am in the US so I don't really know which one you're talking about, but I would look through the various revisions if there are any, to see the different crank and block specs to essentially get a bore and stroke done by going to the junk yard instead of paying a machinist. Honestly though, you're probably just being an ideas guy because nobody really building an engine (especially someone considering custom heads) is on a budget.
--- 2594800
If you are an Europoor and want cheap power get a BMW M50/M52
--- 2594832
>>2592719
That's just normal on the internet sadly. There's a particular variety of person who believes if he can't do it then nobody can. I call them the "naysayers" because the only joy they seem to derive out of life comes from shitting on other people's ideas. And the funny thing is, whenever these mooks are proven wrong, they always pretend they knew it was possible all along. We had one in /k/ who didn't think anybody could DIY smokeless gunpowder ffs... anyway, my point is you just gotta learn to recognize and ignore the "naysayer" on every forum. They're not just on 4chan, I've met them on every boomer forum I've used too.
--- 2595666
>>2594832
Haha, I lost my mind at one particular thread were everyone was telling OP is was impossible to pass 120V over coax. I was saying it was fine depending on the coax and the current draw. A whole fucking thread of NOooooo it's impossible! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDe8_iIEVpY [Embed]
--- 2595733
>>2595666
the absolute state of /diy/ when a clap on clap off dork owns the smarts. this place can't go any lower.
--- 2595811
>>2591951 (OP)
go to a scrapyard and just buy a whole nip toyota engine, i4, v6 doesn't matter.
then slap a heckin turbocharger on it and hope it doesn't blow up. 

going for some retarded 0.9L i4 with barely any parts available that makes 40hp is dumb.
--- 2595817
>>2594800
this ain't cheap even in EU
--- 2596448
>>2595666
kek
--- 2596539
>>2595817
Yes they are, you can get one from every single BMW from the late 90's early 00's
--- 2597997
>>2591951 (OP)
Look into buying a blown 800cc 2-stroke snowmobile engine to play around with, top end is super easy to do, then you can port, polish and do whatever you want.

A stock 2009 800r makes around 151h, it will be a rowdy engine if you can get even more hp out of it.
--- 2599635
>>2591951 (OP)
>can't afford a common enthusiast engine
>brb gonna do all the machine and shit to turn my 2 i4s into an i8
Nigger buy a broken lawn mower and fix it up instead
--- 2599682
>>2591951 (OP)
>budget with only a 6x3x3 garage
A 2 stroke moped engine build is in your future. Fortunately the whole build can be done for $100.
--- 2599711
>>2591951 (OP)
ITBs, bored cylinders, forged pistons, conrods, crank, agressive cam, shaved ported head, headers. turbos are cringe and also suck so don't even consider it. most of the cars i race with are NA
--- 2600011
>>2591951 (OP)
Sup its funny to see therads like this
Back un a day ricing underpowered engines was kind of art but with abundant electronics and used parts it kind of boils down to force feeding more fuel mixture. 
I cannot see why you'd stick to that deforced fiat engine bc ricing 90s Honda's would bring more added value. 
I will assume you're some kind of Italian from deep province trying to stick to some dated fiat BC of sentimental value. 
What amount of HP can be gained? Just take the atmospheric stock HP rating and multiply it with 4. Next you have to find a way to add turbo. This will require exhaust modification. Plus you have to find a set of injectors(better take the whole shebang from a donor car) plus you will have to find a throttle control system for "tuning". There are quite a lot of arduino based open source solutions, you have to invest your time. 
This is the cheapest way for HP ricing. 
How reliable would such engine be? You will surely blow the head gasket from time to time, aswelll you will have to rebuild the engine if you will floor it. 
Although rebuild itself is by far nothing more than replacing some bearings and revorking some valve surfaces.