o/26537986.txt

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--- 26537986
talk about nerd shit like rev matching, heel-toeing, trail braking, etc. 

I recently tried to practice left foot braking. Seems simple, right? turns out my muscle memory of using my left foot to slam the clutch in made me slam the brakes causing me to stall. Has this happened to any of you or am I especially retarded?
--- 26537999
>>26537986 (OP)
No that happens to everyone.
--- 26538001
Left foot braking is only really applicable in motorsport. I wouldn't recommend doing it on public roads for the reason you stated, unless you want to get rear ended. Same with everything else you mentioned, except for rev-matching, which is good for prolonging clutch life.
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>>26538001
>t. not boosted
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>>26538005
>t. Reckless driver

Stop doing this stuff on the road. It's only necessary when driving at the limit on a track. You want to heel-toe, fat foot the clutch and spin out into a family of 5? Be my guest. 
>b-but driving skill
No. If it's late at night and there's no cars on the road, whatever. Just don't get caught or end up in a ditch.
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>>26538001
I feel most cars have auto rev matching now
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>>26538014
Majority of new manuals have it yeah.
--- 26538125
>>26537986 (OP)
>rev matching
do it almost every time
>heel-toeing
when i'm tryhard mode or in a hurry
>trail braking
only on corners i have fully memorized, good conditions and warmed up tires
>etc
double clutching into 1st can be useful depending on car

>lfb
4 years of ambitious vrooming 60hp subcompact on the streets and still haven't found a single use for left foot braking
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>>26537986 (OP)
>I recently tried to practice left foot braking. Seems simple, right? turns out my muscle memory of using my left foot to slam the clutch in made me slam the brakes causing me to stall. Has this happened to any of you or am I especially retarded?
bruh, this is a meme spread on the board. nobody actually does left foot brake or heel toe. we joke about it to see who is dumb enough to try it and die.
--- 26538224
>>26537986 (OP)
Left foot braking is extremely natural, the problem is how the pedal box is designed in street cars. I honestly don't know why anything with an automatic isn't set up for braking like a go kart with two equal pedals, one for each foot. In go karts your only option is left foot braking, if there is a clutch it's on the steering wheel. In purpose-built racecars there is a clutch pedal but the pedal box is designed with the assumption that you will be driving like a go kart and exclusively left foot braking outside the pits as you only need the clutch to get rolling. The way normal street cars are though I am not surprised you find it difficult, almost have to cross your legs.

When I race sports cars I do not left foot brake at all, and heel-toe is necessary. I do not use my heel, it is more like the sides of my foot. I find it difficult to be precise with the brake while shifting this way so I make sure to only downshift when at maximum brake pressure before I start turning in and trailing off the brake. When there is something hard holding your foot in place that resists much more strongly than the throttle it is easier to be consistent. If it seems jerky and impossible to you it's probably because in street driving you are trying to be precise and slow on the brake and not slam them on like a retard (or like you would be doing on the track).
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>>26538224
>I honestly don't know why anything with an automatic isn't set up for braking like a go kart with two equal pedals
i know you just got your license, but drive for a couple more years and then the answer will come to you.
--- 26538295
>>26537986 (OP)
trail brake steering around a corner hitting slip angle coasting on the edge of the traction circle is better than sex
a honda factory team driver told me that LFB is a meme outside of cars with full blown racing suspension because the weight doesnt transfer fast enough for you to have a benefit and you just upset the car so i'm going to roll with continuing to not care about it
>>26538224
yeah i cant heel toe on the street for shit smoothly but at threshold braking with a harness it's relaxing
--- 26538325
I always had trouble with heal-toe playing racing sim games with a wheel. 
Once I actually bought a new Miata (first manual) I picked it up fast and do it all the time now. The pedals are much better setup for this. Difficulty will very one car to another. 
>>26538014
Not here. That sounds like no fun. I like catching a perfect shift. Even if you can turn it off it will probably lead to bad habits.
--- 26538334
>>26537986 (OP)
yeah I had the same thing when my right leg got stitched up and had to use left for clutch and brake
keep being super gentle youll get the hand of it within a week
--- 26538335
>On high speed limit road, going 65 in 5th gear.
>red light up ahead
>push in clutch, hard shift to 1st gear, and coast while braking to stop light
>while at stop light, keep clutch in while in 1st gear, so I can take off if the light goes green 
>wait 2 minutes
>launch from stoplight up to 40mph as I have the next exit.
--- 26538344
>>26538014
>nucar
miss me with that gay shit
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>>26538294
34 and been a club racing shitter for a decade. I'm right and everyone who designs cars for a living is wrong. Can't change my mind.
--- 26538383
>>26537986 (OP)
yep and being euro where auto used to be rare i tried to cluch that way first time i tried one, didnt go very well.
over time i trained myself so now i can brake with both legs, its not really usefull i only kinda need it when doing tricky stuff offroad in my auto jeep.
--- 26538387
>>26537986 (OP)
The trick is to go forward REALLY fast, and if something gets in your way... turn.
--- 26538403
>>26538295
how do you tell when you're at the edge of grip? Is there a sound, a shifting in weight, a feeling in the steering wheel? Is it just remembering what your car can handle?

>>26538014
seems to be a somewhat premium feature in upper-scale manuals, which are growing ever more rare. GR 86 doesn't come with revmatch - I think the new type R does?

>>26538224
I'm trying to get heel-toeing down now, having finally figured out a working foot position. Still can't keep everything smooth. right now when I lift off the accel blip, I lift off the brakes too, which isn't what I want to actually do. 

>>26538335
>65mph 5th into 1st
yeowch
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>>26538295
are those your Gs? impressive
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>>26538403
You can feel it. In your butt, in the wheel. Sound too when you're on street tires, they make a howling noise, slicks are quiet though.
--- 26538654
>>26537986 (OP)
Mainly for offroading or twitchy openwheelers on a track where you need close control of weight balance.
Otherwise, left foot braking really only applicable if you're needing to compensate for some flawed car design like needing to keep your turbo spooled or your car balance is atrociously rear based for some reason.
--- 26538668
>>26538335
>65mph
>push in clutch, hard shift to 1st gear
rip synchro. you spun that first gear synchro to warp speed.
--- 26538943
>>26538429
I need to learn to gradually approach that edge instead of going full send retard. The times I've lost traction were all rapidly overcoming grip rather than approaching and passing the limit.
--- 26538988
>>26538943
Pick a corner with good runoff and experiment. Brake deeper and deeper until your exit starts being too slow. You shouldn't even need the runoff but if you're new to performance driving it will help your peace of mind that the worst thing you might have to do is pick grass clumps out of your car. Sometimes it can be worthwhile to compromise the exit a little depending on what is going on next in the track but generally not. To make things more complicated, it isn't just about maximizing grip and having a really nice flat looking vector acceleration graph either (although you will if you trail brake transition correctly). When you transition off the brake the way you do it affects how the car rotates while it is transferring the weight and you can get it to point differently depending on how you do it. Difficult to explain you kinda just have to get in a car and start feeling it. 

A lot of this sounds a lot harder and more complicated than it really is. Just go to the track with whatever car you have and start driving around it, the instructors there can help you. I also recommend using a device with GPS data, you can gain a hell of a lot of information with just that one sensor and it is built into modern go pros so you don't even need a fancy data logging unit to use it. You can use the gopro data with analysis software too. https://youtu.be/mOAcqkORPZw [Embed]
--- 26538999
>>26537986 (OP)
heel toeing is absolutely retarde outside of track, and even on track it just comes naturally, cause it is much easier to rev match when you're close to lmiter and up the revs already, i see no point fcking heel and toeing doing city speed, what the actual fuck ?
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>>26538325
For me, the hardest downshift to perform was 3-2, since I have to move my arm to the lower-left and the ball of my foot to the lower-right. It really fucked up my brain and took me like a month to manage consistently.
Feels really good getting a perfect one though.
--- 26539214
>>26537986 (OP)
I would do this to when i was learning, keep practicing and it will stop
you need to have three "modes"
mode 1 when you're driving normally with your right foot on the gas and left foot hovering the brake
mode 2 when you upshift with your right foot hovering the gas and your left foot pressing the clutch
mode 3 when you downshift with your left foot pressing the clutch and your right foot facing the brake ready to heel-toe

both your feet are always close together so you move them both together all the time except when you upshift

watch this guy's video he explains it better than me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVO8__MP1iM [Embed]
i've learned with this video and now i can brake as well with my left foot as my right foot.
--- 26539337
>>26538125

EOP here, what do these abbreviations/nicknames mean?
--- 26539343
>>26538125

ESL*, pardon my booze induced mistake
--- 26539357
>>26537986 (OP)
>Has this happened to any of you or am I especially retarded?
Happens to me the few times I have tried and not been extremely thoughtful about it. It's quite uncomfortable with the pedal positions of my normie car too.
--- 26539471
>>26539343
>>26539337
>rev matching
when you apply throttle when clutched in during gear change to match the revs to the level it should be after clutch reengages
>heel-toeing
when you revmatch during braking, operating both brake and gas with your right foot
>trail braking
when you extend the braking zone into the corner
>double clutching
during gear change clutch out and clutch in before putting in the next gear, lets you shift unsynchronized gears more easily
>left foot braking
when you use your left foot to brake, often simultaneously applying some throttle for balance
--- 26539497
>>26538988
Thank you anon.
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>>26538001
>unless you want to get rear ended
Fucking what?
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>>26538125
Based
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>>26538999
why not do it when downshifting into a turn?
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>>26538654
Isn't left foot braking useful on the road because you can start braking faster if the need arises?
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>>26539550
If you just want to larp, sure.
But in terms of actual performance, you can't do that because you follow the weight transfer of the suspension with braking.
If you're in a pure racecar like some LMP or Indycar thing with rockhard suspension and rebound, then the weight transfer is almost instant so you do it.
--- 26539707
>>26539659
I mean the road as in public roads where you have to emergency brake sometimes because of some retard (and sometimes the retard is you)
Having your foot over the brake pedal can save you at least .2 seconds, usually more which equals to several meters of distance even at typical city speeds
--- 26539721
How the fuck do you learn to drive stick? None of my friends or family have manual cars I can borrow.
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>>26538001
>>26539524
there was a thread earlier this week where dumbass OP tried heel toe to show off to some chick riding with him and he instead slammed on the brakes and got rear ended kek
--- 26539771
>>26539721
literally just hop in and start driving. look up youtube videos. there's some british dude on youtube that teaches new drivers for their test, his video on how to get a good position for your clutch foot helped me.
find a quiet street or empty parking lot where you can practice going from a stop, both slowly, and quickly.
initially you will stall a lot on public roads. at first you may panic and feel like 1000 eyes are glaring at you. after a few days it'll just become 'whoops i stalled, gimme a sec' and you will still do this even when manual becomes second nature to you, albeit rarely.
i went through all this right after doing a manual swap with zero prior experience with manuals outside of some online reading and videos. it also didn't help that the clutch was brand spanking new; the bite point was significantly less forgiving than a broken-in clutch.
--- 26539781
>>26537986 (OP)
>>26537999
>Be me, twenty or so
>Driving standard for years because better
>Younger brother learning to drive
>Borrow mom's car with slushbox because zoomer brother doesn't like cars and isn't interested in learning standard
>Plan to take him to local empty mall parking lot, work our way up.
>Approaching first intersection, light goes yellow and we're way too far to catch it
>Put clutch in to coast to light 
>Notaclutch.exe
Tfw when I set a terrible example and almost got rear-ended because I don't know how to drive autotragic
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>>26539738
Retards do retard things. There's no difference which foot you use to slam on the brakes to surprise the driver right behind you.
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>>26539781
>>26539357
>>26539214
>>26538383
>>26538334
>>26537999
I may be a retard, but I'm not alone.
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>>26538403
>how do you tell when you're at the edge of grip? Is there a sound, a shifting in weight, a feeling in the steering wheel? Is it just remembering what your car can handle?
you can feel the car shift as you hit slip angle. it's hard to describe but the car feels kinda weightless to me
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>>26538295
>trail brake steering around a corner hitting slip angle coasting on the edge of the traction circle is better than sex
you don't know what any of these words mean
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>>26540581
This guy said "hitting slip angle" LAAAAAAAAMOOOOOOO fucking ricerssss. Nice catch
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>>26537986 (OP)
no such thing
next thread 
bye
--- 26540653
ignore the retards in this thread. left foot braking is a necessary technique for fwd on icy roads
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>>26540587
>>26540581
cute b8
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>>26538999
This guy can’t heel toe on demand, only when “the conditions are right” aka can’t actually heel toe lol
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>>26537986 (OP)
You're never supposed to use your left foot unless it's some meme emergency like you physically cannot use your right leg but you have to get somewhere anyway. Your right foot is used for everything, from the clutch to the pedal.
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>>26541395
How the fucks that bait bitch you don't even know what those graphs mean you dumb fuck ricer loser double nigger
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>>26538999
Most of the time you’re right but I have a stop sign at the bottom of a long steep hill that starts in a 45 mph zone that I have to go through every day. It’s the perfect situation to heel toe on the street.
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>>26538999
>cause it is much easier to rev match when you're close to lmiter
Electronic throttle control cuck detected
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>>26538325
--- 26541876
I feel like this board ignores the basics. Double-clutching? Learn to parallel park and do a reverse 180 without taking up 3 lanes first (I can't do the latter). I think the key is to learn the shit that doesn't destroy your car first.

P.S. the BEST tutorial on drifting I have ever seen was to just drive in a circle and play with the throttle until the rear starts to kick out.

>>26538001

Left-foot braking is pretty rough on your brakes as far as I can tell. The use for it is also pretty questionable. I don't even remember what it is, to keep in boost while slowing down or to transfer momentum? Don't remember, either way I wouldn't do it on a nicer car.

>>26538125

I never learned heel-toe - seems incredibly difficult without a dedicated practice space that has quite a bit of room.

> double clutching into 1st can be useful depending on car

My understanding is this doesn't apply to modern cars, period. I don't understand it either.

>>26539721
>>26539771

The best way to learn to drive a stick is to go to a parking lot until you reliably start in first and maybe shift to second. Then go do it on a very slight incline (with car rolling backwards). All the "issues" are in first gear, and every other shift is like second.
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>>26541876
>do a reverse 180 without taking up 3 lanes
don't most cars have a turning radius that requires you to take up 2+ lanes to turn around? I don't know anyone that can pull a 180 on a 2 lane highway without going into the shoulder(s)
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>>26541876
>this doesn't apply to modern cars
right, my daily is 20 years old and 1st gear is either unsynchronized or synchro worn out because it just won't go into gear unless i force it or double clutch rev match into it
--- 26541944
>>26541886

The idea is that the front tires slip some. It's basically a reverse scandi flick. I imagine it's pretty hard on the car and don't practice it. I learned all this shit on a $1500 Integra back in the day when I could care less.

>>26541890

Dom is proud of you.
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>>26541876
>I never learned heel-toe - seems incredibly difficult without a dedicated practice space that has quite a bit of room
try literally any 90 degree turn where you need to slow down first
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>>26541876
>do a reverse 180 without taking up 3 lanes first (I can't do the latter)
J-turns are fun but when are you actually going to do that shit? And I'd imagine if you weren't doing it on snow or dirt it'd stress your driveline components a fair bit
--- 26543396
>double clutching 
You retards know that any (even relatively) modern car has all gears synchronized, right?
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>>26541531
>right foot clutching
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>>26541531
>your right foot is used for everything
Nigga, ever driven a manual before?
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>>26543396
Yeah but Vin Diesel said I should be double clutching and not granny shifting 22 years ago
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>>26543396
i just like reducing the wear on the synchros leave me alone
--- 26544236
For me, It's trail brake steering around a corner hitting slip angle
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>>26538016
my 05 forester base model would rev up to the correct rpm for downshifting upon smashing the throttle after placing it in neutral and releasing the clutch. it would even hold it there for you for a second. ecu nannies take challenge out of the fun ;-;
--- 26544259
>>26541890
i just consider 1st to be "synchronized at very low speeds", I've never driven a manual car with a 1st gear that just let me slide it in effortlessly at any speed above 5mph. besides it's easier on the clutch to just blip the throttle and rev match it.
--- 26544319
>get in car with 'good driver' 
>their idea of downshifting is slamming into a lower gear then dumping the clutch
>does it while cornering
--- 26544409
How do I launch? Just rev up and dump the clutch, or dump the clutch more carefully?