his/14899923.txt

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--- 14899923
As you all know apartheid fell, and blacks came into power. They took advantage of the system and just switched roles. Now the blacks are enjoying a wealthy, western style life in the society that whites build, while the whites live in slums and are poor af

One idea that a lot of radicals had back in the day (and a lot still advocate for it) is the idea of a volksstaat. Basically having this small part of the country you see in pic related become an independent nation from the rest of south africa. The whites would then move there and live in peace while the blacks have the complete rest of south africa for themselves.

Could this have been achieved? This would have been ideal.
--- 14899930
>>14899923 (OP)
>Now the blacks are enjoying a wealthy, western style life in the society that whites build, while the whites live in slums and are poor af
But that didn't happen at all
--- 14899949
>>14899923 (OP)
>The whites would then move there and live in peace while the blacks have the complete rest of south africa for themselves
So they lost after getting years of graft and power and now want to move to another part of SA and seize land from the Coloureds who live there? Land that isnt exactly that bountiful?
--- 14899951
>>14899923 (OP)
No. Apartheid was their only viable shot at anything like that and we all know how that ended up.
--- 14899959
only way it was feasibly possible is with massive population transfers, the will of the black population to accept this, and the will of the international community to accept this, none of these were feasibly possible
--- 14900157
There's no water there. They would have to depend on blacks.
--- 14900330
>>14899923 (OP)
Please stop trying to take parts of South Africa. Just go home already.
--- 14900346
>>14900157
Pretty sure Orania is right next to a river and they do way better than 90% of that shithole.
--- 14900367
>>14899923 (OP)
They didn't want separation per se, but domination. Specifically the Afrikaners I mean, they wanted to be the ruling class and have black servants and such, to be a managerial elite free from manual labor. They realize now I think that that was a bad idea, but I don't blame them because manual labor sucks. The idea behind Orania for example is the opposite of that, where they do all the shitty jobs themselves and are self-reliant.
--- 14900371
>>14899951
yeah international pressure forced them out because africans could not do anything on their own.
--- 14900380
>>14899923 (OP)
why are white people still living in that shithole? are you all waiting to get killed or something?
--- 14900381
>>14900371
>africans could not do anything on their own.
South Africa was on the edge of civil war lmso.
--- 14900389
>>14900346
Orania was founded on seized land and gets by by making poor whites do the shitty labour for shit pay under vague promises.
--- 14900390
>>14900380
Most whites in SA have guns and are willing to use them in self defense
--- 14900399
>>14900390
Yeah, and some blacks there have somewhat-bladed objects and are willing to use them offensively.
--- 14900404
>>14900390
>a few geriatric farmers with old hunting rifles against the might of the government with the monopoly of force
lmao good luck with that when the Malema guy gets elected
--- 14900407
The vast majority of South Africa's economy today is centred around Johannesburg and the Vaal Triangle, not the Cape. Ditto for the white population. So no it wouldn't have been ideal and there's a reason it didn't happen.

Maybe if you go back in a time machine and convince the Voortrekkers to go home this would/could have happened.
--- 14900432
>>14900389
>Orania was founded on seized land
No. It was founded on desolate land that was already privately owned. 
>by making poor whites do the shitty labour for shit pay under vague promises.
More like normal Whites, really they're Afrikaners - not "whites", who came there of their own free will to find sanctuary from the rest of the shitty country. They have a better quality of life there than they would elsewhere.
>>14900380
Those that have left or wanted to have done so. The rest stay because they have no choice or feel convicted about giving up the land their ancestors fought for. It's called being a man. No point in running anyway since it'll soon be the same or similar in most places.
--- 14900444
>>14900404
The government there can't even keep the lights on or stop people from looting. No need to be afraid of them.
--- 14900452
>>14900432
>Those that have left or wanted to have done so
Those that had the ability to have already left I mean. The rest either can't or don't want to.
--- 14900464
>>14900380
90% of the murder in South Africa is black-on-black and happening in places you'd never be as a white person. Sure, whites can be victims of crime, but the whole reason stories about a heckin innocent whitegirlerino getting her body or head BLACKED ends up a big News24 headline is because it's actually not the norm.

The vast, vast majority of murders in South Africa have always been retarded township brutality bullshit and it barely gets reported because it's not news to anyone.

Seriously if you aren't a poorfag and live somewhere remotely middle class your lifetime chance of shit happening to you is pretty small. And even then when it does it's mostly because they did something predictable that put them at risk (being the Boer farmer meme, living in one of those shitty old neighbourhoods that's half-Coloured, being a libtard/foreigner who does dumb shit like "hanging out" in a township because you have black friends/are dating a black, etc.).
--- 14900487
>>14900432
>It was founded on desolate land that was already privately owned.
Nope. Coloureds and blacks were living on it after the government abandoned an infrastructure project. It was carried out by the future residents of Orania, with the assistance of beatings, pistol whippings and dogs.
--- 14900489
>>14900487
So basically the founders of Orania engaged in mass scale eviction of 500 people.
--- 14900497
>>14900432
A lot of the Afrikaners working in Oeania are poor lol. The reason they moved was for employment even under sketchy conditions or no guarantees
--- 14900513
>>14900487
Wouldn't care even if true, but source?
>>14900497
Cope. They're there because it's safer and they can be with their own people.
--- 14900526
Orania has a population of 3,000 people. It's a curiosity, but not really that important in the grand scheme of things.

I suppose people pay attention to it, because it's seen as a test of Section 235.
--- 14900683
The 1980s status quo was actually more realistic and stable than either the volkstaat meme or what they have now.

Botha should have just told the ANC to fuck off and gradually moderated the government's policies without ever conceding to majority rule. The libs in the West and the Third World and China would have hated it, but what's new?

Instead the NP let themselves get barrelled over, and were consigned to the dustbin of history as a result.
--- 14900685
>>14900489
>>14900497
>>14900513
>>14900526
so are White people allowed to have anything or should they just default to genociding the powerless low IQ tribals trying to genocide them?
--- 14900718
The problems white people face are global. We live in a western, interconnected world, we share a cultural consciousness. Even if that would have worked by now it would have long been subverted, accepted mass immigration and citizenship to non-whites. Nothing would have worked to prevent that. And nothing is going to change fundamentally, until the Neoliberal Western World reforms or makes room for something else. But reform is in the hand of the Elite and they don‘t seem to care about reforming the West to accept racial reality.
--- 14900723
>>14900685
>low IQ tribals trying to genocide them

Source? Sandile forgetting your side order of wings or cheezybread last time you ordered Debonairs is actually not actually the precursor to a plot to push the white man into the sea, really. He just has a long commute to work and was a bit tired. I'm sure he will remember next time.
--- 14900749
>>14900723
what?
I am just asking if other races are openly declaring war or if they will resort to the passive aggressive feminine crybully tactics.
I mean its fine if you want to act like african matriarchists, but dont pretend to be the warrior race while you hide behind women and "historical """"""injustice""""""""
Step up and go to war properly, maybe you wont job and go down at a rate of 100:1 THIS time.
--- 14900790
>>14900749
Who says anyone is "going to war"? This is all in your head.
--- 14900820
>>14900389
>poor whites
Providing jobs for whites is the entire point idiot. The country has affirmative action for the majority of the population so it is difficult for poor whites to find employment.
>seized land
If it makes you fucking happy they could in fac restart from the beginning and set up once more in land that you do not consider to be "seized" unless of course you consider all the land to be seized (this is probably the case for your world view). They have done so several times. It is called the Great Trek
--- 14900841
>>14900790
so you are fine with White people having power in countries they historically had power in?
--- 14900856
>>14900407
>Maybe if you go back in a time machine and convince the Voortrekkers to go home this would/could have happened.
If the Voortrekers had gone somewhere else then the cities would have be built somewhere else and everyone would have the exact same set of problems, just somewhere else. It isn't like the Voortrekers just headed out and stubbled upon a pre-existing city called Johannesburg.

The point is more than the since the Voortrekers had gone out and set up a new country multiple times in the past that they could continue to do so in the under populated territory. As in setting out and founding new cities is sort of a cultural practice for them so even if there was no reason to do it there might still be a yearning to do it just because. The reasons are ultimately just secondary reasons intended to convince people among them you might be more reluctant.
--- 14900858
>>14900380
87% of whites in South Africa get murdered by other whites, dumbfuck

That’s massively skewed for our small population size
--- 14900873
>>14900487
Hey fuckhead. Would you allow them to head out a found a completely new settlement that you personally have surveyed to make sure nobody is currently living on it, or are you just complaining because you are opposed to the concept of them having any settlement to themselves at all?
--- 14900878
>>14900856
No what I meant is that if Trekkers didn't happen and the whites stayed concentrated around the Cape like in the 17th and early 18th centuries, true white separatism would be a great deal easier and more feasible. But they didn't, so it's not.
--- 14900910
>>14900878
What percentage of people participated in the great trek? I highly doubt they staying in the cape would have seriously impacted the total population of the colony considering that the British were migrating in anyway. Anyone who left was likely replaced by a British settler quite rapidly.
--- 14900913
>>14900513
Just go to the wikipedia page on Orania and skim through it to realize he's an idiot. 
The property was sold by the state and the squatters who were still living there were relocated and given new houses in another location.
--- 14900920
>>14900910
Well yeah, the Boers didn't like their Anglo overlords which is why they left, after all. And I suppose you have a point in that if the Brits who settled in places like Durban and Johnnesburg had all landed and stayed in Cape Town instead, the whole province would have ended up completely dominated by them and the Afrikaner/Afrikaans culture there would have been much diminished.
--- 14900943
>>14900910
>What percentage of people participated in the great trek?

Apparently, they were around a fifth of Cape Colony's total population.
--- 14901524
>>14900367
>they wanted to be the ruling class and have black servants and such
Multiple Afrikaner leaders were literally murdered by their servants/assistants. How many still haven't weaned themselves off of black labor is insane.
--- 14901535
>>14901524
Many wine vinyards still have archaic conditions where they make workers relieve themselves in the fields and have workers live in shoddy sheds. Fucked part is that FairTrade certification doesn't do shit because the owners just put up temporary toilets and measures just to pass the certs and get the FT sticker. 

It's like being able to just take slight hit on your margins just to add functioning toliets is too much fora lot of these guys.
--- 14901537
>>14900790
literally all of your posts are you trying to delegitimize orania, presumably as a justification to break it up.
--- 14901539
>>14900913
>the squatters who were still living there were relocated and given new houses in another location
They were forced off their land through violence nor did they have a choice. On top of that the government didn't even ask the squatters" about it and many Oranians are still aggressive even otuside of Orania's borders.
--- 14901543
>>14900841
No I want to stop all white males from having any power or any children
--- 14901546
>>14900858
source?
--- 14901548
>>14900873
>are you just complaining because you are opposed to the concept of them having any settlement to themselves at all?
Stop being so hysterical. They seized land from people while benefiting from a state that completely favoured Afrikaners.
--- 14901554
They're not white they're dutch. The Netherlands is always open for immigration applications btw. They can always go back.
--- 14901560
>>14901546
Not that guy, but it really is the case that on the whole, intra-racial crime is quite rare in South Africa. Sure the odd white person does fall victim to a carjacking or home invasion, but because the vast majority follow Ben Garrison's timeless advice regarding when and when not to relax and also never visit townships, coloured slums and other places where stabbings and shootings tend to happen, they tend not to be the victims of crime at the hands of blacks and coloureds.
--- 14901563
>>14901554
Not sunny enough for them, I suspect.
--- 14901567
>>14901548
You didn't answer the question. Would you support a new settlement that was created from the ground up from land the post-apartheid government grants them permission to relocate to?
--- 14901575
>>14900464
>being a libtard/foreigner who does dumb shit like "hanging out" in a township because you have black friends/are dating a black

Some of the stories you read about are unbelievable. I remember on IOL I read about this guy, think he was from the UK who ended up dead because he thought walking around in Soweto at like 2 o' clock in the morning was a good idea. Other classic foreigner Darwin Award moments include getting off the Gautrain at Marlboro Station and having a wander around in Alex because why not, right?
--- 14901584
>>14901554
Afrikaners and Dutch people are surprisingly indifferent towards one another for the most part Anon.
--- 14901596
>>14901584
Well they are like Americans and British people, or Quebec Canadians and French People. Basically different groups at this point.
--- 14901602
>>14901567
Does it matter if he would or not?
--- 14901615
>>14901596
nta but here in the US, rich white liberals FUCKING HATE conservative whites from the South. I've literally seen bumperstickers in Colorado, driven by cute blonde women who go to college so you know they're smart, reading "NUKE THE SOUTH".
LOL how edgy. Nah... she means it.
Now do Amsterdam and imagine how those rich white women there feel about apartheid.

Boers are on their own. They have no friends in Holland. Maybe in the Flemish parts of Belgium . . .
--- 14901618
>>14901563
Yeah the weather is indeed shit but europe is first world.
--- 14901622
>>14901615
Conservative parties have been getting billions of votes in Holland. Plus they gave out free visas to the Ukrainians. 
They'd also give them to the Boers for sure. Europe became extremely white friendly after 2015
--- 14901639
>>14900404
Niggers are too incompetent to organize an effective state. Half of the niggers in the military are obese or have aids.
--- 14901645
>>14900404
Won't happen. Steenhuisen unironically has a better shot at the presidency than Malema, although the most likely outcome is either an ANC-DA coalition or an ANC-EFF coalition where the ANC stays the most powerful party and keeps the presidency as well.
--- 14901653
>>14901645
Does he speak dutch
--- 14901658
>>14901645
>an ANC-EFF coalition
zimbabwe tier SA coming up
--- 14901663
>>14901658
Thing is, a lot of people expected the ANC themselves to be pretty radical when they came to power in 1994, but that didn't happen. The EFF will likely prove to be the same, all bark and no bite, especially since they will be the junior partner in any conceivable coalition.
--- 14901664
>>14901663
Mandela at least had enough tact not to sing kill de boer.
I see it being typical ANC shitfuckery only with a token extremely unpopular policy they blame on the EFF, killing them as an electable force.
--- 14901665
>>14901560
thats not a source
--- 14901669
>>14901560
It's called inter-racial. Intra-racial means within the race. Inter-racial means between the races.
--- 14901671
>>14901663
This is sort of a cope though, the ANC being corrupt and incompetent has been enough to fuck things up a great deal, even when they are or think they are trying to not kill the proverbial golden goose.
--- 14901680
>>14901622
>Europe became extremely white friendly after 2015
lmao
--- 14901692
DAAR'S 'N LAND AAN SUIDERKANT, KOM DEEL IN SY VERHALE
UIT DIE OOSTE, WESTE, NOORDE, SUIDE, TOEGEBRING

DIS 'N LAND MET WILDE HAND WAT UITREIK TELKEMALE
OM DIE HOOP VAN MORE TE BESING
DIS 'N LAND VAN KLEURE EN KLANK
DIS 'N LAND VAN OORVLOED EN DANK
DIS 'N LAND WAAR ALMAL NA STREWE
--- 14901750
>>14901567
Why does it matter? The core part is that those founders in Orania purchased their land through the use of their ties to the Apartheid state and engaged in some of the largest forced land evictions in South Africa.
--- 14901757
>>14901750
>largest forced eviction
if that was the largest eviction then apartheid wasn't nearly as oppressive as people say it was
--- 14901760
i like this song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHs3vD_Sn8M [Embed]
--- 14901764
>>14901757
Lol you can't even read three words. get the fuck out
--- 14901768
>>14901764
Do you know how often people got evicted for squatting in South Africa? Trying to stop people from squatting was the entire point behind apartheid but the eventually gave up because it was too much effort to constantly evict people.
--- 14901769
>>14901768
Blatant revisionism.
--- 14901776
>>14901769
You are literally the one arguing that Apartheid was less oppressive than it actually was.
--- 14901795
>>14901776
>You are literally the one arguing that Apartheid was less oppressive
How do you even get that from my post? apartheid engaged in mass land evictions allover SA in rural and urban areas on top of the creation of the Bantustans
--- 14901848
>>14901795
Hence>>14901757
You say this tiny removal of squatters was "the largest forced land eviction in South Africa"
--- 14901854
>>14899923 (OP)
Take this shit to /pol/ you fucking faggot
--- 14901875
>>14900685
Access to Black people is not a human right.
--- 14901880
>>14901848
>engaged in some of the 
Key word some of the you retarded faggot.
--- 14901922
>>14901880
This was not remotely some of the largest evictions
--- 14901944
>>14901875
Access to black queens should be. I'm deprived.
--- 14901954
>>14901922
500 people is pretty big.
--- 14902529
>>14899923 (OP)
Maybe
--- 14902604
>>14901854
Fuck off to reddit and give us the board back
--- 14902908
>>14900346
>Pretty sure Orania is right next to a river and they do way better than 90% of that shithole.
Orania is close to a big city and depend on the black town council to deliver basic services. The people in Orania also have day jobs in the city.
--- 14902924
>>14901875
Black ''people'' =/= African resources
They are too stupid to put in use or defend what they have and therefore don't deserve to have it just because its muh land mufugga
--- 14902927
>>14901584
>Afrikaners and Dutch people are surprisingly indifferent towards one another for the most part Anon.
Because the Afrikaaners were Dutch who were deemed too retarded to live in the Netherlands and were given a one way ticket to the southern most part of Africa.
--- 14902949
>>14899923 (OP)
>Now the blacks are enjoying a wealthy, western style life in the society that whites build, while the whites live in slums and are poor af
Nobody is stopping them from taking a boat trip to Europe like these guys. Maybe they just want to live in slums and have nothing to offer to white society in Europe.
--- 14903018
>>14902908
You are thinking of Kleinfontein.
--- 14903041
>>14902949
Imagine thinking any of the niggers that come here have anything to offer

The truth is, that they don't want to give up the land their ancestors build. They aren't little pussies that run away
--- 14903065
>>14903041
>Imagine thinking any of the niggers that come here have anything to offer
Never said they did. 

>The truth is, that they don't want to give up the land their ancestors build. They aren't little pussies that run away
Then enjoy being white and living in a slum in Africa.
--- 14903272
>>14901664
>Mandela at least had enough tact not to sing kill de boer.

You think the white vote is important or something?
--- 14903730
>>14899923 (OP)
Yes, the English should have left the Boers alone.