k/57824354.txt

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--- 57824354
Chinese here. Share with you amerimutts some war stories. Heard from family members or people I know irl.
--- 57824443
Grandpa on mother’s side fought Korean War. 
He was arti crew. Don’t know how he survived through America-tier CAS. 
One mission includes”organising lost soldiers”. PVA used to rush alot for outmanoeuvring, long range, mountainous terrain, and on food. It was inevitable that someone would straggling. His unit would gather them and wait for other units to take them back somewhere. Occasionally there would be deserters. 
Grandpa don’t want to talk about that.
--- 57824566
The artillery position of another unit get caught by F84. He said they were “plane with big thing on the end of wings” so I guess they were f84. 
Grandpa’s unit came to assist after the attack was over. 
Total hell. They have to find some guns still functional. Remove…human body parts out of artillery pieces. Then took guns back to service. 
The heat was brimstone level. Something would melt and stick together with guns. Have to be removed with tools.
--- 57824622
>>57824443
Artillery crew? Like a mortar team or actual artillery? Because the PVA could only use mortars in the early phase, but then they used actual artillery later on. I think the Battle of Kumsong was like the culmination of Chinese experience with artillery, since they were able to send a shit ton of artillery down at UN positions
--- 57824638
He knows someone who fought indians during borders clash decades ago. Generally indians got fucked up by Chinese infantry. But some urban legends left. It’s said that some india guys can shot chinese hmg gunner through the sight on sg43’s shield. With only iron sight brits bolt action. I don’t know if it’s real but I have read accounts on some random partisan silenced a jap bunker by snipe the shooting holes with only a rifle.
--- 57824681
>>57824622
They used real thing. American guns captured from KMT. We used to joke that Chiang Kai Shek ( we call him Jiang Jieshi) actually runs the clandestine logistics department of early PLA.
--- 57824696
No something’s wrong. He’s not grandpa. He’s grandpa’s father.
--- 57824709
>>57824681
Lmao that's pretty funny. I'm guessing alot of PVA troops were thankful to your grandfather, artillery was scarce and so were logistics to supply shells. As well as it being a damn scary job with US counter battery and air support. Has he ever spoken about the Japanese invasion?
--- 57824745
>>57824709
My Grandfathers friend was a translator for the Allies in Burma when the Chinese Expeditionary force was sent to fight with the Americans and British against the Japanese. He was sent there because he was the only guy educated enough and who knew english. So it's interesting to hear stories from other Chinese as well about veterans.
--- 57824794
Grandpa on father’s side spend university years during cultural revolution. 
I try to explain it simply. 
It’s like early modern Europe. 
CCP is Christianity. Mao is Jesus. Dissens are Muslims. That’s many people know. 
But many people don’t know the christians also divided by catholics or many thing else. 
That’s how gang fight between red guard groups began. 
One gang in university seized the radio room and do mission all day long on top volume. 
Grandpa was on the other gang. They tried to besiege the building and capture the room back. 
They tried to rush in through doorway. 
Defenders throw things. Attackers repulsed. 
Grandpa’s friend had an idea. 
They flipped a basketball pole. Using the H shape base as bow. They cut many bicycle tires to make strings. 
Behold. A siege engine. 
Firing bricks to suppress defenders. 
While assault team rushing in. 
Building captured. 
Top volume didn’t turn off. But changed to another tongue.
--- 57824909
>>57824709
Grandma experienced japs. 
Just as what book said. 
Entire street in her village was literally emptied.
--- 57825001
One neighbour old man fought Vietnam. They experienced the horrific people’s war themselves.
 Soldier helps a Vietnam granny. 
Granny hugged her help. 
Then took out a triggered grenade. 
Partisans attacking logistics convoys everywhere. 
Poisonous bamboo spike traps. 
Soldiers had to put steel plate in boots. 
But on real battle Vietnam was shit. At least china arti was batter.
--- 57825030
>>57824443
cool, my grand dad on my mom's side was a tank crew member, he remembers there being russians on the ground in Best korea
--- 57825062
Grandpa’s family used to work as servant in the house of a KMT officer. He was a division commander of Fu Zuoyi’s clan. Maybe not Fu’s army but be one division in Beijing area. His family name is Zhang and he had many pet snakes. 
Xinbaoan, a city near Beijing. Besieged by PLA. 
That division went for enforcement. 
Ambushed halfway. Typical PLA tactics. 
Commander ran back home that night. Covered with mud and blood. 
He flied Taiwan a few days later.
--- 57825155
>>57824709
Grandma has a older brother and a older sister. And many younger siblings. 
Many of them died during the famine of You Know When. Only she and her older brother survived. 
Japs attacked the village on the same day her mother’s giving birth to another sister. 
One soldier rushed into house. 
Older sister points the birth to soldier. 
That Japanese lad just turned away. 
I sincerely hope that jap survived the war.
--- 57825250
>>57825155
Was your grandma's family in the north like Shanxi?
--- 57825269
>>57825001
Yeah the battles during 1979 were terrible for everyone involved, I think the Battle of Cao Bang was the worst meatgrinder of the war. Vietnamese were very skillful with ATGMs and RPGs so Chinese tanks were picked off alot
--- 57825324
>>57825269
The use of grenade launchers(m79in this case) and the importance of issuing helmets. That war actually taught china alot.
--- 57825360
>>57825001
why was Chinese artillery better?
--- 57825362
>>57825269
I watched a Vietnam film on YouTube recently. It’s funny how films of commie countries portrayed their enemies in exactly the same way.
--- 57825377
>>57825360
Simple answer. China has more. 
But it’s true that Vietnam has soviet 130mm but china not.
--- 57825411
>>57824638
>With only iron sight brits bolt action
Completely possible for a trained rifleman as far back at the 1800s
>>57824794
>a basketball pole. 
>Behold. A siege engine.
>Firing bricks to suppress defenders.
awesome. pour one out for Gramps next time you open the baizhu
--- 57825488
>>57825411
Red guard gang fight is not something to be proud of. 
In Many places the fightings are bloody. Many people died just for argument on who is Maoist canon.
--- 57825519
>>57825250
Yes. In central plain.
--- 57825746
>>57825519
Did your grandfather defect to the PLA during the Civil War or did he only join during the Korean War?
--- 57825805
>>57824794
>Top volume didn’t turn off. But changed to another tongue.
Revolutions, gentlemen.
--- 57825870
>>57825488
>Many people died just for argument on who is Maoist canon.
Damn that's fucked, got to admire the dedication though
--- 57825903
Ya/Herb. 
Get dunk on you yellownigger. You'll never be human.
--- 57826474
>>57825488
On /k/ we do not care why men fight, only how they fight. War is eternal, glory is elusive.
>07 Grampa Wang
--- 57826485
>>57825870
Boy have I got something to show you and it's called "1000 years of religious wars in Europe"
--- 57826594
>>57824354 (OP)
Do you still live in China?
--- 57828734
bump for GMT
OP good thread
--- 57831467
>>57825746
He’s too young for fighting japs. I think he just joined in late 40s and only fought the Korean War. 
He stayed in NK for a few years and then went back home to return civvie life. That’s when he met grandma. 
I have no chance to ask now. He passed away a few years ago.
--- 57831486
>>57826594
Currently studying in UK. family still in China.
--- 57831535
>>57825870
In some place gang fights involved rifle, tank, gunboats. It was relatively peaceful in Beijing. Fighters only use bayonets stolen from PLA. 
In Sichuan a gang removed another gang and many many civvies with ZPU. Mao thought things are out of control. PLA was ordered to stop them. Then gang fights stopped. Everyone turn to dissents.
--- 57831582
In old times the soviet nuke threat was real. So most “politically entrusted populations” had militia training. My dad has a mate received training for 37mm 61K in late 80s. 
Amerimutts literally shocked everyone how they fucked iraq. 
“You’re gonna go fighting apache and a10 don’t you?” 
Mate smile like a mobik just received draft.
--- 57831720
One current classmate is from Taiwan.
I might be thought autistic if they find I know huge amount of ROC military lore.

We all know how life would be once under commie rule so that's not a question.
But I do think ROCA would not stand a chance when the invasion commenced. Even if US intervention is real but that would not rise chance to 50/50.
Huge loss of life will be on both sides. Like typical chinese civil war, especially when one side is crazy.
I cannot imagine how huge cities would be like during the war. I cannot also imagine how partisans would do after the war.
--- 57831832
>>57831535

>ZPU

holy shit
--- 57831856
>>57831720
Interest in /k stuff is pretty common so he could be a potential friend, even if you're from the enemy's side. 
Interesting stories. Thanks for sharing.
--- 57831895
Thank you for this thread friend. Interesting read
--- 57831967
>>57824354 (OP)
why chinks be calling american mutts while they are mutts themselves?
--- 57832016
>>57831967
why you amerimutt call chinese chinks while you are mutt yourself
--- 57832032
>>57824794
Based these stories rule
--- 57832045
>>57831856
not he, she.
that's why.
I don't want one more person think I'm chrischan lite.
though they all don't know cwc lore as well.
--- 57832082
>>57831582
The stuff I’ve read about militias was nuts. They didn’t just give them rifles but mortars, anti air, heavy machine guns, some trucks…
--- 57832094
>>57832045
>she
this is you
--- 57832102
Anyone play Arma3?
I'm ElderLZ on steam.
It's bizarre how Arma "predicts" what happened now.(actually arma just recreated what happened in Moldova I think).
But the only thing different is CDF evoved into arma3 while russians remained in flashpoint.
--- 57832117
>>57832094
wtf is this?
--- 57832147
>>57832117
the direct result of the one child policy
--- 57832159
>>57832102
I kinda envy you, I’d kill to be able to study modern Chinese doctrine and philosophy but I’m a monolingual cucked by translations. I’m a bit away of systems confrontation warfare and tianxia. Is tianxia an idea people discuss or take seriously?
--- 57832196
>>57832082
In the old times militias were everywhere. Every village has militia, mostly typical light infantry. Every state-run factory has militia.
They were on defensive or aux role. aa, at, trucks, like you said.
The most of them were light infantry with rifle, mortar, zpu and rpg2.
Some village militia on south east also run some costal defence or patrol.
They gave Taiwan recon some hard lessons.
--- 57832229
>>57832082
By the way. In 80-90s, public security is shit, police were too few. Many criminals buy or thief guns from militia in cities. That's partilly why the militia thing was cut around the same time.
--- 57832254
>>57832196
Yeah I watched How Yukon Moved the Mountains, I saw some of the costal milita drills. Fascinating stuff.
--- 57832320
>>57832159
Philosophically I think Tianxia may means the entire known world. For a long time the known world didn't change. Siberia-south china sea-Xiyu-Yellow Sea.
Tianxia isn't talk seriously I think.
Old people in my family used to take abit taoism. Some read Laozi's book and some practice Qigong. 
(Normal Qigong, NOT the human combustion one!!!!!!!!!!!!)
--- 57832352
>>57824354 (OP)
--- 57832371
>>57832352
--- 57832393
>>57832371
and thats all i have in my "fuck china" folder besides a pic of Douglass MacArthur and a carrier with a ramp, because i refuse to put forth the mental wherewithal to expand it.
--- 57832437
>>57832371
These're some old logical fallacies and shit thoughts. Everyone hates that. I think they're dying, though on a slow speed.
What do you mean by this?
--- 57832969
>>57832147
I never though the things in that pic can be together in one pic.
--- 57832986
>>57831832
Puts the whole "this is just like the cultural revolution" stuff you hear about protests in perspective. 

>>57832229
I've also heard that crime was high in the 80s.

>>57832159
Interesting book here:

https://community.apan.org/wg/tradoc-g2/fmso/p/fmso-bookshelf
--- 57833084
>>57832986
>>57831832
The city is Chongqing. There's a lot factories for river gunboat, so as to weapons for gunboats.
Here are accounts:
August 1 1967. One group fortified a school building. The other gruop took control a factory of naval AA gun. They took out tens of ZPU4 and DshK out and shoot the building.
August 5 1967. One group tried to human wave a hill captured by another group. Defencing group use 20 to 30 people to lift a ZPU onto the top of that hill. You know what happened next.
--- 57833111
>>57831486

Where and what in the Uk are you studying?
--- 57833138
>>57832986
Yes. Crime was crazy in 80-90. Even in Beijing. With many guns came from militia weapon depots.
Chinese has no SWAT then, only regular police with type 54(Chinese TT) or type 64(Chinese PPK). 
When my father was at my age there were rumors of a guy with a stole 81-1 fleed somewhere to Beijing. People were in panic for months then.
--- 57833149
>>57833111
Studying urban planning. In scapa flow.
--- 57833172
>>57833149
>>>57832986
Based, I do History in London. I have a lot of Chinks with me and the guys are absolute lads, the girls are a little bit difficult but I enjoy you guys a lot. 

It really really surprises me how Anti - CCP a lot of them (all I spoke with) are - like saying Xi and his party are actually damaging to China in the long and middle term and how they like democracy here. 

Captcha: WAR X2A
--- 57833205
>>57833172
haha.
I always think the way to fuck up nationalism is to know a person from other country in person.
Chinese hate west, west hate chinese, that's what ccp want most.
--- 57833233
>>57833172
don't feel bizarre when some of them turn mute when you talk politic with them. That's what we're "trained" to do.
I don't have many chinese around me. Most of them are from south china. No north guy like me. Others are hk or taiwan.
--- 57833327
>>57833233

I try to avoid inner chinese politics as much as possible, but they are huge pacific war nerds and we bond a lot about that and other historic engagements between china, japan and other countries. 

I actually think that we westerner are way more cucked by the CCP than the chinese here. I said something in class in regard to HK and Gibralta and the Falklands being neighbors to "evil" neighbors in the 1960-2000 (Francoist Spain, Maoist China and the Argies) and my prof actually told me I should refrain from such generalisations specifically in regard to the Chinese students in class as they are from the CCP. 

Interestingly enough my friends from the mainland basically agreed with me, that the chinese regime was/is bad and that they do not understand our lecturer here.
--- 57833421
best thread on this board in a while
You play any Squad, OP?
--- 57833425
>>57833233
nta, but whats the north/south chinese divide actually like? I hear it mentioned occasionally, but only briefly
--- 57833497
>>57833425
There's 1,700 km between Hebei and Guangdong. Nearly the same between Texas and Virginia. We use the same Mandarin and that's all. A lot of differences in many things.
--- 57833504
>>57833421
It's not as huge as chinese meme says. But it exists.
--- 57833538
>>57833421
sorry I reply to the wrong person.
I don't play squad. 
FPS. too nervous. My heart beat as fuck when I tried COD for the first time in 2015.
RTS. too boring. I play Red alert 2&3 for more than 10 years.
So I choose Arma in between.
--- 57833575
Thanks for these stories chinanon.
--- 57833733
Dear asdfg, I have an unrelated question. To us it seems comical or unbelievable that, during the Red Guards period, people would worship mango fruit after Mao received one from Pakistan. How are events like that regarded today in the public consciousness?
--- 57833859
>>57832016
Because racism is 4chan culture.
--- 57833921
>>57824354 (OP)
How is life in China these days? Are there still lock downs or is that pretty much over?
--- 57833930
China anon have you read the three body problem? Thats the only chinese thing ive interacted with recently beside chinese tiktoks
--- 57834063
>>57833859
>>57833859
You have right to racism and others also have right to racism you.
That's my favourite part of 4chan.
Unlike some place irl, where only one group have right to racism others and when others racism back they're labelled morally wrong for racism.
--- 57834077
why did the PLA gain so much ground in Korea but get stopped in Vietnam?
--- 57834117
>>57833921
I don't know.
My family says they're fine. Lockdown happened before and after I left. Chaos for supply commenced in the first few days and then things back to normal. 
My grandma had lung cancer once and she caught covid. She's fine. It's a miracle.
Old people're vulnerable so once I get back this summer I would stay home for a week before go to see granpa and grandma.
This only applied to Beijing. I don't know how people in other cities doing. You guys out of firewall may know this better than me.
--- 57834129
thank you for your stories, friend
peace and fortune upon you and your family + friends
--- 57834216
>>57834077
I think these are different case. 
I don't think China have thought of gaining vast land in Vietnam. Their only goal was to make Vietnam draw back their focus from elsewhere. One opinion is Vietnam want to be Gadaffi of Indochina and China attacked to stop that, by forcing Vietnam to remain moblised in north.
When China got back they did many demolition to interrupt Vietnam economy. Maybe that's one point.
--- 57834313
>>57834117
What part of Beijing does your family live? Is it true that the bars at Sanlitun are gone?
--- 57834372
>>57834313
None of us go for bars even before covid.
One of my highschool mate remains posting her bar safari on wechat everyday so I guess the bars are still there.
--- 57834417
>>57834313
Sanlitun, this name has story.
Around a week before Christmas eve of 2014 or 2015 someone said on the internet that Uyghur Separatists were planning an attack in Sanlitun against foreigners on Christmas eve. 
The rumors gone viral on the internet that week.
Police even arrested that retard to disarm the storm of public panic.
--- 57834472
>>57824696
There are some rather old Anons....
--- 57834490
>>57824794
Very fucking cool.
--- 57834529
>>57834063
This. Morals and rules are gay. Let us fight! 
>>57833930
A friend loaned that book to me at a mining camp and I had no idea what to expect. It was really good. Highly recommended.

Thank you for your stories OP.
--- 57834651
>>57833930
>>57834529
I only did read the book version around 2016. Then I read some other books by him. 
I don't read alot scifi books so it's hard to compare.
Liu's books are cold I think.
Inhumane somehow.
He said the topic he discuss is how human would behave under"extrem conditions".
If you want to find how Chinese massing people thinking nowadays on how society and world politic truely works, go for Liu's books.
I don't think what he writes are scifi. They're realism under a highly censored environment.

If I can choose a future to live. I would go for Startrek than Liu's future.
--- 57834671
>>57834417
>Sanlitun
so you're like Chinese aristrocrats?
--- 57834680
>>57834671
What?
--- 57834702
>>57833930
>>57834529
One more suggesstion.
Go for books, not movies. Book are Liu's thought, movies are CCP's.
--- 57834747
Here is a urban legend.
I met one guy on a chinese site. He said his granpa who worked in a Steel Factory in Beijing actually saw a few Panther tanks. Soviets sold them to china for wasted steel.
He thought his grandpa was talking about T34 or 3485 or even M41 so he showed him different pics.
Old anon pointed Panzer V and said that was it.
--- 57834875
>>57834651
I agree with you, Liu writes humans from a very detached perspective, the most “ human” feeling character in 3 body is detective Shi. Im glad you like the books and find them an accurate presentation of chinese thought and opinion. Im very curious to know more about the average chinese persons thinking and way of life, its a shame it seems like the US is ramping up aggression towards your country, the government might suck but so does ours.
--- 57835373
>>57834216
i would imagine it also has something to do with how the locals felt as well, north korean opinion probably ranged from greeting them as saviours to neutral while the vietnamese had grandmas blowing themselves up with grenades to kill chinese troops if what anon >>57825001 said is true which makes things way harder, also different geography probably played a role along with vietnams many years of fighting on paper stronger opponents
--- 57835978
>>57833425
Northerners eat more and are chads, souferners are poofs.
--- 57836571
>>57835978
Maoists mainly concentrate their fire on Beijing people like me and Southeast people- ironically, most of my friends. They think Beijing people are enablers(sorry for using christory word lmao) and southeast people are people who gain economical benefits in Reformation.
--- 57836688
>>57833327
I think calling things evil is emotional language and your professor was right for calling you out on it. Use better words.
Also if they're not careful they lose Chinese gibs as well as the Chinese there end up being heavily questioned and less likely to have a good life when they go home.
I see why they do it for the students, but not letting students discuss it at least is pretty shit.
--- 57836867
>>57824638
Old tribals in the subcontinents are natural born sharpshooters and still are.
I've seen 9yr Olds plinking needles with .22 from far away.
That's why Pakistan has a hard time quelling insurgencies in balochistan. They get fragged from miles away.
--- 57839044
My ex-gf from high school had a grandfather that fought in Korea. 
I was doing a program with a local congressman and he had us interview a veteran and write their story. 
He was a badass, was a Marine, was there throughout most of their tactical retreat, killed a few commies, survived a human wave attack, managed to capture an enemy soldier. Got sent home after his left leg got blown off below the knee. Got married and had a on of kids. I was honored to have deflowered his granddaughter. 

I was told after that I was the only person he had shared that much of his war experience with. 
The interview is preserved in the US National Archives. Not that anyone will read it probably, but it's cool that something I wrote is there.
--- 57839063
>>57834063
Fair enough slanteye
--- 57840327
>>57836688
In a lot of countries there are unofficial Chinese cop shops that are therer to look over the Chinese ex-pats, they will just bodysnatch you if they think you are fucking up in your fancy gwailo school
--- 57840427
>>57824354 (OP)

1- Is it true Mao was about to invade Taiwan when Best Korea chimped out and attacked South Korea, meaning that Mao had to take his army to help Best Korea and they lost too much soldiers and material so the Taiwan invasion had to be postponed? 

2- Have you seen the American perspective of the war (meaning how the war is portrayed and talked about)? 

3- Is the Korean War talked about a lot in China? 

4- Is it true that one of the reason the modern CCP leadership is so paranoid about control is because they had their formative years in the Cultural Revolution and don't want something like that happening again?
--- 57841410
>>57824354 (OP)
What secret code word should I shout to the other line when I get drafted and sent to the front in mainland for ww3 that will prevent Chinese soldiers from shooting at me?
--- 57841480
>>57841410
台湾不是中国的。香港也不是中国的。钓鱼岛永远是日本的。Say these magic words to get free cigs and baijiu
--- 57841539
Old fag here. Mother in law was in PLA. Better than starving, as military at least got food.
--- 57841590
On a different note, got absolutely ripped on PLA booze one night..
--- 57841625
>>57841480
--- 57841719
>>57841590
China is an alcoholic's paradise. You can get a gallon of 56% gaijin for $5
--- 57841789
>>57841539
Throughout human history this has been a constant theme. You get treated like a dog and you may die tomorrow, but at least you can eat buns
--- 57841871
>>57841719
>>57841590
Meant to say baijiu don't know why it got changed to gaijin
--- 57841902
>>57841789
>>57841539
One of the interesting things I’ve noticed about the (pre-deng) PLA is that they didn’t seem to have endemic sexual abuse of the women in their ranks. It certainly seems there was some, certainly during the early civil war before the Japanese invasion, but not nearly as much as one might expect in what was essentially a mainly-peasant army that was frequently starving, doing dangerous guerrilla warfare, sabotage, etc. 
Obvious sexual assaults did happen though or mao wouldn’t have put out a pamphlet on military discipline and conduct that including, alongside “don’t loot,” “please don’t rape women, people will hate us.” 

*I as pre-deng because I am much more ignorant of the post-cultural-revolution era of PLA history
--- 57841987
>>57841902
I think the pre-Deng PLA really drank the kool-aid. Alot of the old people and boomers I've met seem to really think the party takes their interests to heart
--- 57842018
>>57841987
It was the same in the USSR. even tho they had to wait in line to buy toilet paper in the 80s, boomer Russians after 1992 often cried for the Great Sovier State to help them instead of democracy
--- 57842025
>>57825030
Were they really far behind lines? I find it hard to believe the soviets would risk losing one of theirs and have the corpse be unretrievable
--- 57842174
>>57834077
The military that went into North Korea had been seasoned by ~20 years of warlords and an invasion by the Japanese. Many were also schooled and trained by advisors from the Allies, both American and Soviet, in order to help with the South China and Burma Campaigns. 

The military that went into Vietnam was mostly party loyalist which had went through twenty years of famine, poverty, and near-Civil War conditions during the Cultural Revolution.

It also doesn't help that when they went into Vietnam, they were going up against a military that had been seasoned for the last thirty years in irregular jungle and urban warfare, and was also on a war footing thanks to Cambodia and Laos going full retard with their own cults of personality.

Basically, China had to neuter its military post-Mao in order to prevent a 2nd Cultural Revolution. Chinanon might have to correct me, but this is also why the PRC adopted harsh anti-gun legislation in comparison to the years of the Red Guard, where most school students were kitted with WW2 surplus. By the time Mao died, several factions were already preparing for a 2nd Cultural Revolution, with hardliners threatening to go Khmer Rogue mode. 

By the way if any anons want to go "WTF" look up the Shanghai People Commune, and the whole Wuhan Incident. Cultural Revolution almost broke into Civil War several times.
--- 57842226
Damn this is an interesting thread. It's not often we get to hear from somebody from mainland China. My grandfather lost his leg to a German mine in the battle of the bulge so I guess that makes me the old anon
--- 57842589
larper can't even speak chinese
--- 57842640
>>57842174
The Shanghai people’s commune was pretty intense yeah. Sort of like a Paris Commune inside of an existing civil strife situation. So chaotic even the hardliners wanted it done with.
--- 57842682
The fact that people type out all these posts makes me feel great because I don't read them
--- 57842713
>>57842682
Good on you, anon. Reading's for fags
--- 57842738
>>57834472
I'm on the cusp of still being young enough to be called 'young' and my grandfather fought in WWII. Perfectly believable.
--- 57842841
>>57833084
And they were just citizen gangs? And they did all this because they believed in communism that strongly? I know little about China but that sounds crazy.
--- 57842889
>>57842226
My dad's aunt's husband got knee capped in the Ardennes when the Germans counter attacked. He had to play dead overnight and hide under another American body to avoid detection. He pulled the pin on a grenade when he thought they were about go get him, but they didn't noticed him and he realized how difficult it is to put the pin back in in the dark.

Later he made a friend who was also in the Ardennes and got his knee fucked up on the same leg, but the dude was on the German side back then.
--- 57842989
>>57842841
Yes. Read literally any account of the cultural revolution. I know it sounds crazy but kids aged 13-22, typically aged about 15 or 16, were constantly fighting each other. Usually it was on the level of street gangs with sticks - sort of imagine the peak of post-trump maga v antifa street brawls but happening literally everywhere and somewhat encouraged by the government. Every building was covered by huge posters which loudly proclaimed so and so was a revisionist. Universities, high schools (which iirc started about year 7 like in the UK), apartment blocks and factories were divided into factions who debated, carried out propaganda campaigns and frequently got into brawls. Sometimes people were beaten to death, hung, etc. Three Body Problem includes a scene of a man being beaten to death for espousing General Relativity - it’s framed as a going-to-far by over enthusiastic youth during a party show trial, but that sort of thing did happen, it’s not at all exaggerated. 
And that’s without guns. Local militias were armed, and I mean proper militias properly armed, especially with light field artillery and anti aircraft guns. They drilled frequently and enthusiastically because of quite reasonable fears of US/USSR invasions, but also to be able to defeat the PLA if they became “reactionary.”
When those got involved it turned into small scale warfare and armed skirmishes. 

While fictionalised you should try to read the three body problem excerpts about the cultural revolution specifically because it will give you real insight into what that was like. 15 year olds gunning each other down over the specific wording of pamphlets. The CCP allows such writings because the official party line is essentially that it was a mistake/sabotage by far-left radicals in the party, and ending the cultural revolution and putting those supposed leaders of the violence on trial was how the Deng government cemented their legitimacy.
--- 57843003
>>57842989
>>57842841
Meanwhile the tiananmen square protests were carried out against the Deng government, by a combination of factions most notably pro-western democracy forces and pro-maoist/pro-cultural-Revolution forces (but it was more complicated than that). The massacre was the steel heel of the Deng government and PLA demonstrating that there would be no second cultural Revolution nor would there be any sort of pivot to liberal democracy. 
Obviously the successors of Deng want to look like a peaceful continuation of the legacy of ending internal strife and bringing about prosperity after the “mistakes” of the cultural revolution and Great Leap Forward, and the Tiananmen Square stuff tarnishes that narrative
--- 57843047
>>57842989
>>57843003
How did they come to be that crazed over communist writing minutiae? It wasn't like that in the soviet union's early days, was it?
--- 57843067
>>57834671
Are you trying to dox chinkanon or something?
--- 57843092
>>57843067
Sanlitun is a district where there's lots of diplomat housing. The heavy diplomat presence led to people setting up bars in the area with many concentrated on an unpaved road that everyone simply referred to as "dirty bar street". Notable recent events there are a ricecel stabbing a Chinese woman to death in front of her French boyfriend and a lady recording a crappy sex video at the Uniqlo store. Asking if he hangs out there won't reveal his identity.
--- 57843097
>>57843092
>Notable recent events there are a ricecel stabbing a Chinese woman to death in front of her French boyfriend
based
--- 57843103
>>57843047
>It wasn't like that in the soviet union's early days, was it?
Nigger are you fucking kidding? Russians of every commie and other political stripe killed each other in droves. The big meta story of the Russian revolutions and civil wars was that the various communist and authoritarian factions sucked at winning battles and wars, but kept winning the peaces, while the anarchist factions like the black guard were ridiculously combat effective but insanely easy to slaughter and disperse with secret police etc once the battle was over.
--- 57843119
>>57843103
The way it's always been explained to me was after the revolution there wasn't actually much in the way of street violence, and all the killings were either quiet political assassinations or regular old gulag death camps. Government-sanctioned street gangs beating and sometimes killing eachother seems like it's several levels above that.
--- 57843144
>>57843119
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_uprisings_against_the_Bolsheviks
--- 57843201
>>57843047
It’s kind of a complicated question but 
>mao himself 
>memories of the civil war
>memories of the Japanese invasion and the Korean campaign
Mao, it cannot be stressed enough, encouraged freedom of criticism to an absurd degree. I know this might some strange to a western reader but there’s a logic to it. Think of it as a combination of social mobiliazation, civic engagement, and kind of a bottom up censorship. Random people were encouraged to attack party officials (usually not physically) for failing to do their jobs and follow mao’s policies. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticize_Lin,_Criticize_Confucius
It’s hard to talk about concisely but here we go - after stalin’s death mao was shocked by the Krushevite changes and the 180 on the cult of Stalin. It became apparent to mao that krushev had been preparing for such a coup and “shift to revisionism” for years before Stalin’s death. This lead to the sinno Soviet split. But at home mao began to fear a similar coup, believing it would originate in the party, which was actually huge and unwieldy and he never had anything like full control over (how could he given china’s size and the pre-modern state of infrastructure), and backed by the PLA. So Mao essentially tried to use the masses to control the party from below for him, through semi-organized and semi-directed campaigns of criticism and removal of party officials (sometimes violently) and trying desperately to keep the PLA from being independent
Now, criticism from below was sort of mythologized in the party. During the civil war, retarded leadership were retards and were taking retatded advice from retarded Soviet advisors. This nearly wiped out the party and only didn’t because mao said “this is retarded we’re going north.” 
Why was it so bloody? Because of the lessons of Japan and Korea, and because of fears of the PLA and the USSR. The Chinese took a rifle behind every blade of grass seriously (cont)
--- 57843208
>>57843047
>>57843201
 mao believed that an armed, organized populace (loyal to him) was necessary to protect against internal coups and external invasion. So random fuck off villages were organized into platoon or company sized militias with some old military hardware, including mortars, trucks, anti air guns etc. these drilled quite a lot. You had costal militas, factories organized into political study groups that doubled as milita platoons, etc etc etc etc. these were explicitly trained to be wary for both internal and external threats
After the sinno Soviet split the Chinese people were primed with endless essays, articles, speeches about the dangers of revisionism, the importance of adhering to the revolutionary path and maozedongthought, the dangers of party officials trying to turn the state against socialism and maoism and to fascism (which the Chinese would associate with the Japanese invasion of China). Mao has been telling them this is exactly what happened in the USSR, who are now threatening china with nuclear annihilation and denying them machinery which can lift them out of poverty, trying to destroy socialism.
So mao says 
>we need to organize struggle at all levels of society to protect against revisionism!
And they take it to heart. You know American culture warriors telling you that children’s cartoons are going to destroy America? Notice how American high schoolers get extremely emotional about either things being too woke or not woke enough? That was what China was like, but actively encouraged by the head of state and most admired man in the countr, and with a similar proliferation of guns but with less small arms and more military surplus. And with government organized student groups on the level of JROTC but with more political debates. They literally had internecine brawls over opera and poems, debates about specific pieces of opera were often centrepieces of debates and struggles in Beijing amongst both party officials and lay people.
--- 57843234
>>57843208
In short - imagine your typical teenager who is way too into politics. Now imagine their idol has told them they have to struggle against internal enemies or there country is doomed and there will be mass death. Imagine he encourages them to form groups and engage in struggle personally, tells them they’re the future of their civilisation. Imagine now that they’re given fucking guns and told to root out corrupt municipal figures and people with the wrong beliefs who will destroy America.
Imagine if Trump went on /pol/ in 2018 and told them that if they started attacking commies in the street he would be sure they were protected from prosecution.
--- 57843265
>>57843201
>>57843208
>>57843234
>brawls over opera and poems
Wow, how strange, and, well, foreign. I honestly don't think I can actually truly imagine something like what you described taking place in the US, as with your Trump example. Interesting stuff anon, thank you.
>>57843144
Look how shit-tier and uninteresting this response is in comparison. How embarrassing for that anon.
--- 57843873
>>57824354 (OP)
thank you for comfy thread china anon
--- 57844774
>>57843097
I forgot to mention he did it with a katana
--- 57844839
>>57841590
This thing has a reason. 
In wild cold war era chinese light infantry need something that can do both in medical and hydrate way. 
When the army became motorised the drinking cult just die out. 
PLA prohibited drinking alcohol many years ago.
--- 57844883
>>57842841
It is crazy indeed. 
In People’s War theory there is no noncombatant. Commies around the world have taken advantage in it for more than 100 years. 
Most people taking part in fighting received military training. At least the training about how to shoot sks and using grenade. 
That city also has factories of ordnance so it’s easy to get arms.
--- 57844948
>>57843234
Dude are you Chinese?
中国人?
--- 57844959
I didn't expect this thread to survive this long...
--- 57844993
>>57825030
Do you know where he was trained? My grandfather was a tank driver then commander under Patton in WW2 with three bronze stars. When Korea started he was brought back as an instructor in Virginia.
--- 57845165
>>57832117
Severe mental illness
>>57832147
It could be diaspora
>>57832969
Have you seen non-4chan social media? It's full of LGBTQ commies that are pro-China, pro-Russia, pro-Iran, pro-Palestian and basically full on tankie. They literally root for countries and leaders that would make their lives miserable if not kill them.
--- 57845879
>>57845165
Tankies shall be treated in the way how tankies would like to treat dissents. It's mirror fairness.
--- 57846791
>>57825488
How did the cultural revolution gangs realte with central and local authorities? As far as I am aware, things like public trials and struggle sessions were official, unlike the gang fights. Were the administrative revolutionaries above reproach from any gang, or was it a struggle of which gang were the regional officials?
--- 57846812
>>57843265
>>brawls over opera and poems
>Wow, how strange, and, well, foreign. I honestly don't think I can actually truly imagine something like what you described taking place in the US
I can only assume you're joking
>>57843208
>>57843201
>>57842989
I remember a book with with a white horse on the cover about this; can't remember the name. was written well before Red Scarf Girl, anyway absolutely nightmarish stuff yeah
thanks for butin to a quality thread
--- 57846882
>>57846791
there were a lot of sudden and not-arbitrary promotions and demotions, a cadre leader would accuse the local boss of capitalism or revisionism and the higher up bosses would either promote him to local party boss after he's taken out he local boss in some hideous manner, or they would gin up another cadre across town to oppose them.
violence from the street, middle ranks in turmoil, orders from the top.
bog-standard populist-authoriatrian playbook, straight from the French Revolution right on through Hitler and etc
--- 57846912
>>57842589
of course its a larp. let people enjoy things, bigot.
--- 57848142
>>57846882
>>57846791
The thought behind it is that they would eventually revert to capitalism as things calm down, heirarchies reappear, society gets orderly again, and the only way to prevent that would be continuous revolution by constantly encouraging whoever was on the bottom to keep attacking anyone who gets higher than them. This is why ancom is worse than stalinism. The only way to make society be moneyless heirarchyless grugs is to have them constantly kill eachother and cut down any grug that gets too high
--- 57848368
Why? Just, why?
--- 57848787
>>57844948
Not him but Maoist China is a topic a lot of non-Chinese can and do put the actual intellectual effort into understanding beyond pop-history bites and narrative-driven (from either end) portrayals. 
It does not extend the other direction from my interactions with Chinese nationals. I haven't seen you tread near it in this thread, but even non-pozzed Chinese nationals tend to have cartoonishly poor or otherwise low-resolution understandings of US history beyond militaria.
--- 57848801
>>57848142
>they would eventually revert to capitalism as things calm down, heirarchies reappear, society gets orderly again,
And they were completely correct as we can all see, which led China and Xi to unironically reinvent fascism as a working model and by God he's got a decent shot at pulling it off
--- 57848922
>>57834063
>You have right to racism and others also have right to racism you.

im saving this quote.
--- 57849048
>>57848787
I have to admit that my timeline about American history is linked up by war after war. From Chicago indians to Afghanistan. And I have no idea on how American politics before 20th century.
--- 57849134
>>57848992
Based
--- 57849180
>>57848368

Oh God you don't know about Chris-chan?
--- 57849443
>>57848787
The irony of an American complaining about people having cartoon-tier knowledge of history
Toppest of keks.
--- 57849612
>>57843201
>Mao
>Encouraged freedom of criticism
What is Hundred Flowers? Some of us lost family who thought they were doing the proper thing in calling out flaws in the system.
--- 57850262
>>57843119
You can look at Stalin's purges as a Russian equivalent of the Cultural Revolution since a lot of people who caught a bullet were in the middle, which created upward mobility from the bottom (who'd also be loyal to Stalin). There's a book called "Stalinism and the Politics of Mobilization" about this, arguing that mass mobilization was more important than assumed by historians, rather than the purges being strictly top down.

It's more of a pincer attack. And it's complicated, because Stalin (and Mao) were paranoid and wanted to root out their enemies, alleged spies, traitors, and potentially disloyal people, but they also used mass mobilization and political commitment on the part of people at the bottom to help do it. Stephen Kotkin, the conservative historian who is finishing a three-volume biography of Stalin, described Stalin's rule as a form of "participatory totalitarianism," which is an interesting phrase. Like this:

>>57843201
>Random people were encouraged to attack party officials (usually not physically) for failing to do their jobs and follow mao’s policies
Stalin encouraged that too, although in a somewhat different way. Your manager at a state-owned factory is disloyal? There have been accidents that injured a worker because of neglect? Report him to the NKVD and then some mysterious men show up and the managers disappear. Then some other guys at the factory take those jobs. Those guys will be loyal to Stalin for life. Maybe the manager who got disappeared didn't do anything wrong, but either way... who's asking questions?

It's an absurd (but funny) movie, The Death of Stalin, because it depicts the top leadership as craven, but there are throngs of people flooding into Moscow to pay their respects, but some of the leaders are trying to control it, or Beria trying to shut the capital down with his NKVD troops, and the people at the bottom are more militant true believers than the leaders:

https://youtu.be/VersLJjqRGY?t=105 [Embed]
--- 57850438
>>57848142
>continuous revolution by constantly encouraging whoever was on the bottom to keep attacking anyone who gets higher than them. This is why ancom is worse than stalinism.
Stalinism is kinda like continuous revolution though, that's the weird thing about it. Or at least that's part of it. I believe Mao also had a concept like "permanent revolution" or something. The French Revolution had its Jacobin phase which led to the Thermidorian reaction and then the rise of Napoleon. But Stalin had elements of each of these things, so you see Stalin adopting rather conservative policies in various areas, reintroducing pretty traditional military ranks with generals with shoulder bars, but then also adopting some of the most radical measures such as forced collectivization. That was not the case with Thermidor, the radical social experiments stopped, but not under Stalin (or Mao), in some areas they intensified. Thing is, too, all the people at the top we're talking about read a lot about the French Revolution.

Stalin's consolidation of power purged both "left" and "right." In communist terms that is, the "left" would be Trotsky and the far left of the party, who he moved against first, but then the "right" represented by Bukharin (think of Deng Xiaoping here), while also adopting elements of both in his own policies. For Stalin, everything was basically relative, contingent.
--- 57850846
>>57824354 (OP)
Genuinely good thread anon
--- 57851062
>>57849180
I’m a Chinese who spend most of my life inside the wall why shall I know him. 

I do know a bit cwc lore but don’t know this China thing till today.
--- 57851082
>>57848922
>>>57834063
>>You have right to racism and others also have right to racism you.
>im saving this quote.
its a whizbanger no doubt
>fr fr no cap ong
--- 57852325
>>57841987
It’s partially true. 
Mao himself once wrote a passage on rural poverty in 1920s. 
I forget the exact number. 
More than 70-80% peasants are literally serfs. The same percentage of total population is illiterate. Landlords are intentionally pushing peasants into a Engel coefficient of 1 or even more than 1. The case of more than 1 is usually used to gain land or labour from them. The result is the entire village would remains shit for 1000years. In marxism word, this system cuffs the productivity in shithole. 

For example before commies came to granny’s place the most advanced agricultural technology in the entire village was a single cow and a set of wooden plough owned by the landlord himself. Wtf. 

Granny’s family used to be one of these serfs. Commies came in late 40s. The recruiting station was nearly crushed by human wave after commies said they would give every family a land. Despite shit happened later, but that’s exactly why commies can have sky high popularity then. 

Maybe many would say Mao is shit. 
But for the majority of population Mao is Jesus at least before late 50s.
--- 57852363
>>57824354 (OP)
Grandfather fought in WW2, never met him cuz he shot himself in the 70s when his cancer became terminal.
Great uncle on other side of the family fought in korea, went to Tokyo U for college, married a japanese girl.
Father was going to fight in Vietnam but his brother died in a test flight of the Starfighter and thus he was exempted under the Sole Survivor policy.
--- 57852381
>>57852363
Oh and grandfather on other side was in the navy during korea but didnt fight, they were stationed in the Caribbean during it. He WAS however physically present at the Reagan assassination attempt so that's something.
--- 57852396
>>57852325
Another thing. 
Giving everyone land is just PR for recruiting(but was successful). China has so many people and so limited land. The only way to concentrate land and apply soviet tractor and fertiliser on it. Even for now, post deng era, this is happening in rural area in a slow pace. 

Honestly I don’t know how People’s Commune both Mao and me(lmao) thought that should work. 

The materials and researches on the Great Famine are also restricted in China so some of you people might know this better than me.
--- 57852427
>>57852325
It's hard to blame impoverished communists at the turn of the century. I completely understand why they chose something to fuck over the people who fucked them over nonstop. It's the utopianist middle-upper-class communists I detest because they just want to meet the new boss same as the old boss at worst or at best are guilty and trying to dances-with-wolves. But fuck you live in the depraved shitholes of the industrial revolution or landlord era third world 19th-20th century and fuck yeah unless you could get into the system as a mook of the landlord of course you'd go commie.
--- 57852732
>>57824354 (OP)
Why aren't they slapping ERA onto the statue?
--- 57852810
Actually a good thread compared to /pol/ and CIA troons trying to influence each other.
--- 57852816
>>57852732
it already has it, look closer
--- 57853405
>>57849612
Yeah I was trying to make a 101 explanation but it would be more accurate to say that he encouraged freedom of criticism as it allowed him to more clearly identify threats on one hand and on the other direct the broad people to keep the party loyal to him through that criticism, as the party wasn’t nearly centralised enough for him to do that from the top down. It’s a very complicated issue but no one can say that mao stifled expression, especially during the cultural revolution. Now, stifled specific persons and groups for their expression…
--- 57853478
Hi OP, cool thread you seem very knowledgeable
I don't know a lot about earlier PLA/China history admittedly, but I have done a decent amount of research into modern-ish PLA kit

Here's my PLAN Marine uniform I put together, I'm aware type 07 camoflage is being replaced by the type 16/19/whatever Starry Sky, but I prefer the 07 digital honestly

also using the older type 95 style chest rig, rather than the newer type 06 MOLLE vest
--- 57853561
>>57842025
That would be bizarre as Soviets were not practitioners of the "no one left behind" doctrine and used to high casualties as the price of operations. Even as late as A-stan they buried many dead on the battlefield though there were corpse repatriations too.
--- 57853583
>>57842738
Post age. I'm 63 and my father fought in Europe (US Army).
--- 57853596
>>57843119
The Russian civil war was enormous and went on for years until the White forces were defeated and killed or expelled overseas.
--- 57853674
>>57833205
doesn't even have to be in person.
I'm Bangladeshi. If you knew our history, you'd see we had a lot of bad blood with Pakis and Indians. Let's just say, I was brought up with a not-so-rosy view of them.
Then, I played COD4x in a Sri Lankan server with asians of all countries including Pakistanis and Indians, became friends. That changed my mindset and now I don't think they're so bad.
There were also a bunch of russians too and now I wonder how they're doing with everything thats going on.
--- 57853849
>>57850262
>Death of Stalin
really good movie. Surprisingly historically accurate for a comedy
--- 57853894
Wow, I've got to learn a lot of Chinese history that I'd have otherwise been unaware of.
You guys recommend any books to get an overview of the politics, happenins and the PLA state in China from the 40s onwards?
--- 57853987
>>57853583
28
--- 57854055
>>57853583
If this is true damn anon what made you find this place lol
--- 57854159
>>57852325
It helps that the Guomindang were absolute dogshit during WWII
--- 57856531
>>57853478
The time period I’m obsessed with are Deng and Jiang era. I’m abit lost about post-Jiang PLA because things just changed too rapidly.
Grandpa owns a Type 65 overcoat. In winter mornings of 2007 he used to put that on me and drive me to school in his scooter. 
By the way this blue camo is informally called Smurf because it’s just too…ugly.
--- 57856866
Just did weekly video chat with grandpa. 
Told me more about his good old days. 
Serious military training starts at high school. He used a type 38. Practicing physical skills and bayonet. Grenade as well. But no shooting. 
There was a pen pal project between east bloc for kids to practice Russian. Grandpa writes with a Russian girl. Her name is Dasha or so. She sent grandpa a soviet novel. The Young Guard. Written in russian. The entire class plus the teacher spent a semester together to read this.
--- 57856891
>>57856866
Still wondering how that Russian person doing in these 60 years. Is she still alive? Grandpa said she may from Ukraine. That adds uncertainty. 
High school ends and grandpa went through Gaokao for university. 
3 months of military training in advance. This is serious. Involving everything of boot camp. Living with real soldiers. Shooting sks. Shooting rpd. Rpg2 and rpg43.
--- 57856914
>>57856891
One training involves what to do when you spot a mushroom cloud nearby. Holy shit. 
Another is going prone at night. Soldiers shooting tracer with rpd above your head. 
They had a marching practice in one rain night. They returned barracks with mud and water. One mate found the upper of his sks is gone. Everyone freaking out. All goes out to find. Things recovered later in a mud pool.
--- 57856962
One day. Nonsense chatting with my classmates.
 A mountain hiking obsessed guy asks me if I do the same in Beijing cuz Beijing is surrounded by mountains in three side. 
Yes I do and I love these old bunkers. 
What bunkers?
In old times the mountains are the last line between soviet tanks and Beijing so there’re bunkers. 
Alright…
One bunker is funny particularly. When russians dropped nuke on Beijing the guys in bunker would observe how many of the city is vaporised and reported it to someone else. 
One girl turns a shitty smile. 

Only a week later I got to know she’s russian.
--- 57857071
>>57844839
>When the army became motorised the drinking cult just die out. 
>PLA prohibited drinking alcohol many years ago.
Doubt. This particular bottle was new. Maybe only officers can get it, idk. All I know is that it came from a friend of a friend currently in the PLA and I have no idea how it got snuck into the US.
--- 57857193
>>57843047
Ever try talk to a commie? Like a real die hard commie? They know and obsess over every minute detail of theory worse than the most ardent religious fundamentalist. And like a religious fundamentalist, to be against their hyperspecifc interpretation of the one true ideology is to be the enemy, the embodiment of evil, the heretic. Now that's here in the West, where they're somewhat restrained. In a world where their (broad) worldview has violently won its place they get cart blanche to act on that. See secterian violence in Iraq and Iran, or commies killing commies in China, early Soviet Russia, and so on
--- 57857254
>>57857193
For example, the early Red Army in 1930s. 
Imagine a grouping of teens going really crazy in this commie thoughts. And different from rural rebels they’re properly trained in killing and properly organised in killing teams by some educated and super smart middle aged men who have military experience seasoned in decades of light infantry fightings. 
And you have to fight them in mountainous southern china. 
Even you have mauser and they only have pike you cannot defeat them.
--- 57857766
thanks for sharing anon, your grandpa sounds nice. mine (US) got drafted during the korean war but thankfully got sick and didn’t deploy with his unit. Two stories:

>be grandpa during basic training
>do grenade practice 
>throw grenade really hard
>it bounces back
>everyone runs away
>thankfully it was a dud (or maybe a practice grenade, I forget which)

Then after training was done

>get released from army
>grandpa is from New York
>his friend is also from New York
>they decide to drive back together
>important note: his friend is black and basic training is in the south, which is super racist. New York not so much
>grandpa was shocked on the drive back when they couldn’t eat at the same restaurants or use the bathroom at the same gas station, they had to find separate ones

Later he programmed computers for the Apollo missions and the Osprey (he predicted it would crash but got fired because he insulted his boss about it). He died a few years ago.
--- 57858120
>>57856962
>guys in bunker would observe how many of the city is vaporised and reported it to someone else.
>One girl turns a shitty smile.
>Only a week later I got to know she’s russian.
thats funny right there i dont care who you are
--- 57859217
>>57853561
The point is the Soviets didnt want the west to have proof they were involved, hence why they only flew air support deep in NK territory
--- 57859451
>>57857766
this is all true
--- 57859504
>>57834077
they didn't get stopped. they fucked up the gooks up enough to teach them a lesson, then fucked back to China because who knows what the USSR was gonna do. 

Vietnam got BTFO in 79 hard and anyone who disputes that is a retarded gook lover or muttard wholly devoid of reason.
--- 57859568
>>57833172
>It really really surprises me how Anti - CCP a lot of them (all I spoke with) are - like saying Xi and his party are actually damaging to China in the long and middle term and how they like democracy here.
kek
what they don't tell you is how absolutely they think the west is.
And besides, grass is always greener on the other side. These people you speak to are the elites of Chinese society. You talk to Chinese students in provincial universities in China and see what you get.

>>57833327
>that the chinese regime was/is bad 
then ask them who provided the economic reforms necessary for them to acquire enough wealth. Hint: if the KMT won the civil war, you're looking at another civil war in 25 years. 

>>57833233
>don't feel bizarre when some of them turn mute when you talk politic with them. That's what we're "trained" to do..
That's not really true. 

>>57833205
>Chinese hate west, west hate chinese, that's what ccp want most.
you're a naive retard.
Western propaganda arms are working overtime to build a comprehensive anti china narrative and if you don't understand that, you're even dumber than you sound.
--- 57859582
>>57841987
>Alot of the old people and boomers I've met seem to really think the party takes their interests to heart
that's because it's true.
the CPC and the PLA were a lot more egalitarian back in the days. 
the command structures and decision making matrices were much flatter.
--- 57859593
>>57859568
>chink
>dd ar
checks out
--- 57859606
>>57859593
KNEEL.
WORSHIP AT THE ALTAR OF MARTY DANIEL.
--- 57860756
>>57853405
>You have freedom of legitimate criticism
>That is: The freedom to get lynched afterwards
>But only after a self criticism session
--- 57860776
>>57860756
>freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences
--- 57860794
>>57860776
>/leftypol/ fingers typed this
--- 57860809
Cultural Revolution China sounds like a capture the flag game
--- 57862921
>>57860756
>t. retard
--- 57863263
When i was a kid my uncle was friendly with a guy who won the medal of honor in Vietnam. He won the MOH during his first tour and then went back for 4 more doing various things, including as a LRRP/SF. He told some pretty fucked up stories. 

The LRRPs were generally a recon force but the VC/NVA hated them because they were so elite. When a LRRP team got hit, they were such a small unit that they would have to leave any friendly KIAs behind. A couple days later they'd send another team back to investigate and dudes would have their dicks cut off and shoved in their mouths, impaled...all kinds of atrocities. 

So despite being a recon unit, most of the LRRPs would end up wanting to kill some motherfuckers and would do it whenever they got the chance to without compromising the mission. He said sometimes if they had a slow mission with no enemy showing up or whatever, they'd set up a fake camp and cook some rice the same way the VC/NVA would. When dudes showed up to investigate, they'd think it was one of their camps, sit down to eat, and they'd ambush them and either kill them or kidnap them. He also said one time he came up on a guy sleeping in a hammock. Instead of just slitting his throat and being done with it, he put his hand over the guy's mouth and shook him awake to see the look on his face before he killed him. Must have been crazy doing that job. He really had a tough time when he came home though desu
--- 57863619
>>57863263
Heard similar stories since childhood. 
Chinese and Vietnam recon during Sino-Vietnam war. Not 1979one, but the long war alongside border in 80s. 
The geo of sino vietnam war zone was bizarre. Many positions were on isolated hill tops. Only connected by roads on valley. 
Recons were deployed for gaining intels for further offensive. This applies for china in most case. Vietnam didn’t wage big offensive alot. they made big offensive once. they won initial infantry battle with superior force but eventually got raped hard by our arti. 
Both china and vietnam love to use recon for kidnapping. Target might be signal guys or small patrol. This was one method to gain intel. But mostly just for scaring people. 
There’re stories of vietnamese Dac Cong infiltrates Chinese barracks and kill random people or planting bombs. 
There’re also stories about female Dac Cong. An urban legend says female Dac Cong would hid explosives in their china.(another cwcism)
--- 57863637
My uncle was in Vietnam, he was drunk when I was a child and told me a story about how his M16 was out of ammo, or maybe jammed, and he had to bayonet the VC he was just shooting at. I think he might have felt bad about it.

>>57863619
>There’re also stories about female Dac Cong. An urban legend says female Dac Cong would hid explosives in their china.(another cwcism)

Hah
--- 57863702
>>57863263
Vietnam also deployed many US things against China. Like M16 with silencer, M16 with nvg or M79. The latter two gave PLA hard lessons sometimes. 
China uses flamethrowers alot for Vietnam. Many that’s one reason China still doesn’t want to give up it today, even portable thermobaric are already deployed. 
For counter insurgency operations in You Know Where and You Know Where II they still use flamethrowers to clean caves.
--- 57863739
Random thought. What do the Chinamen think of America's adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan?
--- 57863804
>>57859568
>Western propaganda arms are working overtime to build a comprehensive anti china narrative
yeah both governments are, they're each trying to create political will for their desired outcome (invade/defend Taiwan). Most likely, the outcome will be decided more by this psychological trickery than any battle. This is because political will determines whether or not America intervenes, and whether the CCP gains anything internally by invading. 

I hope it doesn't happen. I don't know if the CCP is really crazy enough to do it, but a friend of a friend building PLAN ships said they were aiming for 2025.
--- 57863852
>>57863739
For contemporary China the Iraq wars were Human-Kryptonian war. Just too shocking. 
Like aforementioned. One of my dad’s mate was 37mm 61K gunner factory militia. One day dad just laughing on him. Saying that he would be sent to counter apache and a10 when Sino American war broke out. Mate just smiled like mobik. 
For Afghanistan, the sudden retreat causes the same shocking. Nobody knows why. Even for Chinese people.
--- 57863883
>>57863804
Stop replying that guy. China-taiwan comparison is fine but put non/k/ politic aside. 
I don’t want my thread to become sino american bot war.
--- 57863982
>>57863739
Iraq also somehow boosted Jiang‘s will on reforming and modernising PLA. And we have to say that this modernisation finally works. 
Taiwan for example. Things are alot different nowadays than 1996.
--- 57864022
>>57863702
>using flamethrowers and cave hajis
Jesus Christ how horrifying. But they’ll get a rude awakening if they try that against any actual military
--- 57864074
>>57863852
military knowledgelet here, what makes apaches and a10s scarier to do AA against vs whatever he was expecting before then?
--- 57864162
>>57863883
fair. here's a /k/ but not military china story.
I did kung fu for several years here in the states. my teacher's teachers were involved in involved in triad/gang/hongmen shit back in the day. They never specified exactly. one time, one went on a trip back to hong kong. A guy he knew there wanted a gun, so he bought one in the states and just... stuck that shit in his waistband and walked on the plane. Then when he got there, the guy didn't offer him enough money for it, so he... stuck it right back in his pants and went home. 1970's airport security did not give a fuck.
--- 57864267
>>57834077
How hard would YOU fight for Pol pot, anon?
Outside of murder/k/ube obligations.
--- 57864428
>>57864074
Countermeasures, BVR stealth fighter fleets and AWACS makes it hard to even get a lock before you're destroyed.
--- 57864494
>>57864074
Anon this is what this factory militiaman would have been manning against gunships with guided missiles with BVR capabilities 
I would shit my pants too
--- 57864496
This is quite possibly the most informative thread I've ever seen on /k/
--- 57864834
Tell me more about these factory militiamen. Were they based at these factories because the factories were just the best place or centerpoint they had for that region, or were they intended to guard the factory specifically?
--- 57864842
>>57853478
Nice I have a pla bonnie hat that I love for hiking. The tibetian plain camo it has is pretty unique.

>>57844883
Apparently sks are still being manufractured as a gun for formal occasions. Wish we could get some here.
--- 57865003
>>57832094
Not the USMC Flag :(
--- 57865060
>>57864834
Factories themselves were very organized, a lot of the workers lives would have revolved around their factory
>lived close by
>work teams already highly organized, politicised by discussion and debate groups
>these groups were often the only organizing the production lines and methods themselves
>daycare facilities at factory 
>healthcare and pharmaceutical facilities at factories 
And then add onto that, the factories would have been often producing war materiel. In fact some factories weee started basically by random people in the neighbourhood finding an old building and requesting permission and machinery to get started. Random housewives making iron cookware, for example. 
Militias were fucking everywhere pre-deng, and people were organized into groups everywhere from villages to factories to primary school to university to factories to apartment complexes. 
How Yokong Moved the Mountains is obviously propaganda but when you acknowledge that, it’s interesting to see how they framed the idealness of their society. Factory groups putting up giant posters criticising the party official managing their factory, debating whether or not pay incentives are socialist, conducting costal air raid milita drills, putting on socialist plays, etc. 

When the language from party leadership turned to correcting mistaken ideas, preventing internal coups, re-educating the wayward revisionists, the dangers of the PLA… well you can see how these organisations might start turning on each other
--- 57865078
>>57856531
I'm in a online community that does PLA impression kits, one or two of the guys there are actual PLA vets as well, I've known about the smurf nickname lol, I've always liked it for being unique though
>>57864842
Nice, the Tibet flecktarn clone I presume
--- 57865261
>>57833172
We all bleed under the same sun, we all sleep under the same moon.
--- 57865486
>>57832117
>>57832969
>>57845879
based innocent chinese.-anon

How many gangs were there in the early days of the Red Guard fighting?
Dozens? Over a hundred?
Early christianity had three main branches (only Catholics survived; they had the best recruitment message) but for a very long time every church picked and chose what sacred Hebrew and Christian writings were used.
One church might choose some books, another church might refuse those books.
--- 57866106
>>57824354 (OP)
Changnon, why is Chinese cinema so devoted to spectacle over substance?
--- 57866148
>>57864162
>Then when he got there, the guy didn't offer him enough money for it, so he... stuck it right back in his pants and went home.
This sounds like a Sopranos scene lmao
--- 57866230
>>57866106
Says the guy living in the country that invented capeshit
One Shadow is worth the entire Avengers series you uncultured mutt
--- 57866534
>>57856531
>By the way this blue camo is informally called Smurf because it’s just too…ugly.
kek. I will have to remember that.

>>57856914
Damn, that sounds like some bad luck. It's hard to knock that lever out of place, then catch the pin on something to pull it out and lose the top cover but I believe it, especially if it's been worn in. I wonder how he didn't hear it when it fell off, though; they're quite loud when the cover pops off! As an aside, I love my Chinese SKS. It's not in the greatest of condition as it was used by Albania but it shoots rather accurately and the recoil is very light. I prefer it over my AK.
--- 57866555
>>57860794
>he doesn't understand sarcasm

Why do you think I wrote it in greentext?
--- 57866562
>>57866534
>Damn, that sounds like some bad luck. It's hard to knock that lever out of place, then catch the pin on something to pull it out and lose the top cover but I believe it, especially if it's been worn in. I wonder how he didn't hear it when it fell off, though; they're quite loud when the cover pops off! As an aside, I love my Chinese SKS. It's not in the greatest of condition as it was used by Albania but it shoots rather accurately and the recoil is very light. I prefer it over my AK.
Not him obviously but when I read that post I assumed the grandpa's friend guy or whatever meant his gas tube. I feel like it's easier to mistakenly think the gastube is on right while it's not, than the same for the top cover.
--- 57866601
>>57866106
Not op, but entertainment as a whole is kinda made to cater to the lowest common denominator. It's actually pretty hard to find groups to do hobbies with because most entertainment venues try to cater to as wide a market as possible. Disposable income and time are still pretty new things to many Chinese people so it's taking awhile for more niche interests to gain a following. Also, Chinese people kinda have a mindset of bigger/more is always better so people rarely think a movie is too dramatic or has too many special effects.
--- 57866655
>>57866562
I was going between that and the dust cover while I was reading OP's reply. Makes a lot more sense; if that thing falls off it would make almost no noise, especially in the rain and mud! My lever on the gas tube is even more worn out than the one holding the cover on. Should bend it to keep it more secure so the same doesn't happen to me if I ever take this thing hunting. SKS parts are fucking retarded right now.
--- 57867019
>>57824354 (OP)
https://youtu.be/DXbwKf-2iB8?t=18 [Embed]
--- 57868121
>>57866106
I don’t watch film then. Maybe the last time I went for cinema was in 2014or 2015, for a Jackie Chan movie I think. 
I watch some TVs. Mainly police tv from early 2000s. The equipment used in these are interesting. Maybe deserved to be talked about in another reply.
--- 57868214
I love two Tv particularly.
重案六组(Crime investigation team VI) and 士兵突击(Soldier)
The first is a police drama, with 4 seasons, themed police in early 2000s Beijing.
I love the first two.
Many interesting /k/ features can be seen in there. 
Police equiped with regular type 54 and type 64 pistol. BUT someone have BHP and PPK. 
In one scene a guy is using a Mauser HSC. Wtf.
Police use SMG like Type 79 or CQ UZI.
Sometimes the 'sniper' guy would use a CQ M16 with a scope. 
All real guns I can sure. Fake movie gun were not popular in mainland in that time.
There's no swat in Beijing then. So all reinforcements are real PAP soldier. They have type 56(AK) and wearing thet classic chest gear, right, in 2003.
These're real soldiers. PAP at that time are allowed to take part in tv for extra money. Jiang banned army and pap from setting company but acting and renting house is not banned until XI.
Banning pla from renting house made my favourite Uyghur restaurant dissapeared. I miss Xinjiang noodle and Roast Lamb! 
Many scene of the tv are just filmed in streets of Beijing. Fulfilled my 2000s nostalgia.
--- 57868254
>>57868214
Where did they source the weirder guns? Is it all straight from government sources or were there companies that specialized in renting real guns to movie and TV show productions?
--- 57868272
士兵突击 is about PLA in early 2000s. 
It's about a soldier's life of being recruited, bootcamp, deployed in a regular recon company in motorised regiment, then got chosen into "elite" unit. 
Type 87 camo (copycat M81) still in use.
Type 81 and 81-1 rifle and Type 81 LMG still in use. The sniper in infantry uses type 85 (chinese svd). In one scene there is a disguised Type 56-2 with black handguard. A fake 81-1 isn't it?
The "Elite Troops" are using type 95 and type 88 sniper.

Vehicles:
Regular units still using type 63 APC and type 59 tank. But they're in a transition toward type 86 ifv. The company leader later moved to be a battalion leader of "divisional recon battalion".
--- 57868280
>>57868254
from police themselfs. this is later prohibited. that's how these early police drama can offer us a insight of police equipment in that time.
--- 57868323
>>57868272
what do you think about the fact that westerners hate you and will not think twice about putting you in a camp?
--- 57868353
>>57868323
fuck ya mudda
--- 57868401
>>57868353
Based
--- 57868412
>>57843208
>They literally had internecine brawls over opera and poems, debates about specific pieces of opera were often centrepieces of debates and struggles in Beijing amongst both party officials and lay people.
I think when chinese say "america is collapsing" this is what they mean, because they have a historical reference to go off of for how their own country faltered - not that I necessarily believe that premise.
--- 57868450
>>57865078
Is there something wrong with his wrist? Besides the rubber band constricting it. The fuck am I looking at? Am I having a stroke?
--- 57868715
>>57832016
Chink is a reference to the slit eyes. 
Amerimutts mostly have normal shaped eyes. 
So whats your point? Or are you just being a regular yellow fella and copying without understanding.
--- 57868744
>>57868715
anon the epicanthic folds are normal for them
--- 57869197
>>57868353
Is this how you cope with being an inferior chink?
--- 57869864
>>57869197
Yes so fuck ya mudda
--- 57870005
Actually breddy gud bread, chinanon what do you think of the PLAAF aircraft would you say that the CCP still copies both American and Russian designs or are they now trying to design their own fighters from the ground up like the h-6 or J-20, not trying to start shit flinging just genuinely curious
--- 57870130
>>57870005
I’m not familiar with PLAAF. We shall say, as long as they had the capability of designing something different they start it. From J10abc to J20. 
Shenyang finally made Su27 their own to develop J11, J15 and J16, maybe the only thing kept them from designing something looks like new is that the aerodynamic of Su27 is so damn good. Y20 is here. Maybe new bomber is next. 
Engine is still a problem. CCP got seethed by AVIC so much that they set up a separated engine company. That did achieved something. Notice the difference in Y20’s engine. 
In a sentence. Long way to go. But better than nothing, better than 2010s, partially better than Russia, and equal or better than US in some minor points.
--- 57870210
Someone screencap this thread
--- 57870360
>>57824794
>Behold. A siege engine.
Nice
--- 57870504
>>57824909
What book
--- 57870555
>>57831535
Thay's a very different take on how history books told the story.

So if civil unrest predated mao, what caused the civil unrest?
--- 57870576
>>57832016
Amerimutt is an insult coined in /int/ to insult americans. Mixed blood americans like to own it up but it's an endearing term.
--- 57870596
>>57832045
Just ask her out bro.

Reunification can happen in other ways
--- 57870617
>>57832229
How bad did corruption get in the 80s?
--- 57870662
>>57833233
Is the turn mute thing something tgat predates the revolution?
--- 57870670
>>57833327
>argies
>evil
Autistic brit detected
--- 57870701
>>57870504
All books. No matter Chinese or western, propaganda or history. Japs just still fight in medieval way.
--- 57870711
>>57834117
>i dont know how other cities are doing
??? Why not?
--- 57870719
>>57870711
many municipal governments and provinces do their own thing and have their own standards, they're fairly decentralized in some respects
--- 57870745
>>57870711
Media is controlled. Social media is also controlled. Central authority have power to delete things. Local authority(even universities) have bots cruising around and look for bad news.
--- 57870784
>>57870617
Crazy high. 
Just like culture revolution era. 
The crazy thing is not Mao himself would do bad things to you without supervision. The crazy thing is anyone who represents Mao(party officials in this case) can do bad things on you.
--- 57870786
>>57870701
No. I understand that Japs were brutal and inhumane but they have always been very quick to adapt and adopt new ways to commit war. After the Portuguese introduced them to firearms in 1543, they were mass producing better muskets in 3 years. Imperial Japan before WWII had the best ships, best planes, best weapons (except tanks) in the world other than Germany. They conquered most of SEAsia because they were much more modern and skillful than other Asian people. They could not upgrade quickly enough and were stretched too thin so they lost the war but it was not because they were bad at fighting wars, they were very good at that
--- 57870830
>>57870745
We can see a lot of this from outside, infosec people who monitor Chinas internet notice the gaps and painted over parts in social even if we can't actually see it happen.
Anyway do you like Chef Wang Gang? I love his recipes and his uncle
--- 57871054
>>57857766
When did segeefation laws really get gping in the south?

I feel like they weren't there before 19220
--- 57871165
>>57870745
I didnt imagine you were not allowed to know about what happened to your own nationals.

Say im a beijing civil engineer, how would I find out that there's compaby looking to set a company up next province and they are hiring?

Or do provinces no really exchange people?
--- 57871180
>>57870784
Did Xi really did manage to stop corruption, or he cant penetrate province level corruption?
Does it affect modern PLA?
--- 57871193
This was a fascinating thread. Thanks for your anecdoctes and answers, friend
--- 57871208
>>57870786
>they were mass producing better muskets in 3 years
Let’s not get carried away

>best ships 
Lmao no
>best planes
>best weapons
Ah I see, you are shitposting
--- 57871272
>>57870830
I'm sorry who is Chef Wang Gang?
--- 57871349
>>57871180
At least he stopped some. 
It depends on how you view these things.

[setting up a police state.]
+ drug selling(even weeds) and terrorism nearly eliminated.
- too many.
? huge budget.

[Xi concentrating power.]
+ corruption partially stopped. At least party anti-corruption agency starts being serious. 
- too many
? winnie the pooh banned.
--- 57871442
>>57871272
Sichaunese chef on social, his uncle looks like the Beast from Kung Fu Hustle
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hgYXRuQcniw [Embed]
--- 57871599
>>57871349
>winnie the pooh banned.
this is a lie. Go to Shanghai Disneyland.
--- 57871997
>>57871599
Since Jiang era we call Winnie and in recent years all media call him pooh. 
Do you know why?