k/57864208.txt

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--- 57864208
i want a poor tier handgun, because im on a budget. should i get a heritage rough rider, with a 9 round 22WMR cylinder, or a Taurus G3C?
--- 57864262
>>57864208 (OP)
there have been a lot of m&p9 police trade ins floating around recently for around 300. just make sure its a late model 1st gen m&p that does not have 'stainless' engraved on the left side
--- 57864308
Taurus G2C for $170 or G3C for $210
--- 57864344
>>57864208 (OP)
There are plenty of shields on discount.
--- 57864346
>>57864208 (OP)
The Taurus is just all around a more versatile handgun for a new shooter to own and use. From my own experience with one, its grip is big enough to comfortably shoot but small enough for conceal carry.
--- 57864397
>>57864346
What is their warranty like? If you did a lemon, how much of a pain is it to get it replaced?
--- 57864412
>rough rider, with a 9 round 22WMR
It's fun but not advised. Get a canik.
--- 57864466
>>57864412
anything above 300 is not on my radar right now
--- 57864467
>>57864208 (OP)
Depends on what you're looking for: are you looking for something more on the fun side, or more on the defensive side?
--- 57864485
>>57864397
While I never had to warranty mine out, I know they have a lifetime warranty, so as long as you bought it new, you'll be able to get it warrantied for as long as you own it.
--- 57864508
>>57864208 (OP)
Also, speaking of the Taurus G3C, consider also the full-size Taurus G3 for around the same price. Comes with a longer barrel and higher capacity, so it might be worth it to go with that instead.
--- 57864513
>>57864466
I was at my local sportsman's warehouse and they had the diamondback sidekick for $280. It is double action, 9 shots with 22LR and 22WMR conversion cylinder. I'd go for that as a first gun over the RR is only because DA is a lot more practical for home or self defense. Can use 22LR for cheap practice. Barrel is long enough to give .22WMR some power too.
--- 57864644
>>57864208 (OP)
Being a poorfag and buying a gut that shoots 22wmr is stupidity.
If its eh it comes with both cyclinders its fine, but if you know you are broke and want to shoot wrm you are a moron.
--- 57864674
>>57864208 (OP)
if you go cheaper but shoot less often get a .25 auto.

$100 for the gun and $25 for a box that will probably last you for your life.
--- 57864755
Go to your local pawn shop and look around for used versions of good 9mm guns
You could also look around for anything in .40 S&W, .45 ACP, or .38 special if you have to
--- 57864772
>>57864466
Save up and put it on your radar.
--- 57864799
>>57864674
shoudl also add that the "sub-par" firearms are currently running cheap

so think about picking up a .32(various) or .38 (only)
--- 57864973
>>57864799
What does it matter if a budget gun is $50-100 cheaper when the ammo is much more expensive, and the durability is questionable? I would always happily pay that premium for a common caliber.
--- 57865094
>>57864973
Model 10s are just fine as long as you dont run +P ammo on them
--- 57865187
>>57864466
get a sw 22A for $170
--- 57865228
>>57864208 (OP)
taurus g2c or g3c, any police trade in of decent quality, or better yet: wait. $300 is not a lot to work with at all. you *might* get something good, you'll likely get something okay, you might end up with garbage. even just a couple hundred more puts you in the market for a P365 or other great pistol. guns are pricey unfortunately, and it takes a decent chunk of cash at a time to get yourself something good. the best thing to do is just close your wallet until it's full
--- 57865236
>>57864644
im not broke, i own an HCAR, i just want to not spend alllllll my money.
--- 57866010
>>57864973
that is why you need to ask the guns store owner.

for example I own a FIE titan, which is cheap for two reasons:
>.25 auto
>made of low quality steel

if I was shooting hot loaded .357 that would be a problem but most firearms made in the 1970s-1980s are in this category.

>cheaper steel makes a cheaper gun.
>cheaper steel guns can't handle hot loads.
>doesn't matter because the ammo used is never a hot load.

as a result things like .32 colt and .25 auto are at the nexus of cheap, low desirability, functional maximization.

what these firearms are not, is a plinking gun. they are intended to be fired once in a great while and then be left in your pocket for a year, when you go back to the range to "re-qualify yourself" in its use. that isn't of question. what happens, and I will use mine, is that the frilly safety features break down and it makes the gun require a special manual of arms. for example my FIE titan has a bent safety, which means that when in safe I can still fire the gun. I cannon get rid of the safety because it holds the gun together, but as I can just use manual of arms to fix the problem, having it isn't one.

so if you want to 7+1 the firearm it is basically the same problem as a 1911. have to ride the hammer and not drop it on the hammer. so the safety just turns into an extra trip to prevent you, the user, from accidentally misfiring it. the same can be said of any hammer-inertia-bar or hammer-pin fired weapons.

so if you are willing to put up with that, then getting these cheaper "out of date" models of guns can overall save you money. but if you want something you are going to burn the barrel out plinking/competitive shooting. then getting the firearm OP mentioned at the top is on the low end.

I own a six cylinder version, I own the FIE titan, I also own a full size 9mm. they all kill just the same. srsly just go to a gun shop and talk to the proprietor of the store.
--- 57866041
>>57866010
out of date but still relevant.
--- 57866883
>>57866041
WAY out of date.That's probably the oldest version of that guide.

Most of the stuff on that list is either discontinued, has at least doubled in price from what's on there or both.
--- 57866990
>>57864674
the only .25 autos worth a damn are Beretta Model 20s or 21a (maybe a 950 Jetfire if you're okay with losing DA/SA). And those will be around 450-600 new which is out of OP's price range. anything else is basically a hand grenade
--- 57867079
>>57864262
Whats the difference with the stainless?
Different material, or was it just dropped as they continued to upgrade it?
--- 57869222
>>57866990
>Beretta Model 20a
you are thinking like a premium. I just saw a tom cat go for $300.

>.25 auto, a handgrenade
If you were buying a 9mm I would be tempted, but short of using C4 as a propellant a .25 auto won't explode. you could possibly break the gun, you just need to know how much of a gun is true pot metal and who just used a low quality steel.

the frame and silde of the cheaper guns tend to be made of near pot metal material, that is Zinc alloy. this isn't a problem because if ti breaks at most you will just have a slight bruise where the back end of the slide hit your face.

the only things that explode are glocks and ignorant operators. there are a lot of stories of people firing .357 out of .38s or .44mag out of .44 spc. these will explode in catastrophic ways, but a .25 auto is so niche there isn't a way to induce a catastrophic failure short of deliberate misuse. so the reason that such a fire arm is undesired is that the cheaper metal would make the gun fail permanently and as I stated with mine, the parts wear to the point of non-functionality. most of the guns still on the market have survived the stresses of time and are hearty enough to that I would trust them short of pulling them out of long term storage.

so with that a full size Beretta is more of a hand-grenade than any mouse gun could ever be.

so what I would suggest is that if you can find one of the better cheaper handguns, you can min-max the relevance and get a gun you will probably never fire for cheap, it is reliable enough to stake your life on, small enough to conceal easily, and cheap enough you have no excuse.

.25 auto has almost no recoil, .25 auto has the same killing force as a .22mag, better if you can find an actual hollow point, and it technically is more reliable because it uses a primer and since you will be CC the firearm you probably won't have spares.

so I find any excuse by you to be reasons you want to buy a more expensive firearm.
--- 57869244
>>57864208 (OP)
PSA dagger
--- 57869257
>>57866041
>Oct. 19, 2015
That shit's almost a decade old, it's completely irrelevant, and was barely relevant when it was first posted.
--- 57869268
>>57864208 (OP)
Don't get the Heritage, save a bit and get a Ruger Wrangler. Trust me.
--- 57869333
>>57864208 (OP)
I like my Rough Rider, as shitty as it is, and I'd take it to the range over the G3C if I had one, but I also only paid fiddy bucks for it. Depends a lot on what you're trying to do with the gun you plan to buy.
--- 57869370
>>57867079
I don't know what anon is talking about, but I will assume he saw one for sell at his local gun store... which probably has a story...

however.

Cheaper firearms tend to do things like having zinc-aluminum alloy frames, or polymer frames. these are seen as bad because they cannot handle a lot of pressure and will fracture. as they are considered the primary element of the firearm, "the gun" by the ATF their price is lowered to off set the expense of replacing them.

lowest quality to highest quality:
>old polymer (1980-2000) (usually a semi auto, gentile use)
>cast metal (zinc alloy) (do not use category, this is actual pot metal)
>new polymer (gucci)
>cast aluminum (cheaper make, sometimes as stronger as steel, problem is cracking from use)
>cast steel-aluminum alloy/cast steel (baseline cheap but good)
>high strength aluminum billet (pretty rare in a standard handgun, basically only used by AR-handguns)
>stamped steel (rare to find in a handgun, usually a WWII era gun)
>steel billet (most common, high grade quality and expense to match)
>high strength forged steel (normally only in revolvers, reproductions)
--- 57869440
>>57869257
the guide was knowledgeable about the inaccuracy of its status, as there is a constant shift in the market, what you use it for is to better understand firearms and teaching about SD/HD.

>you are a poorfag
>you have a need
>if you aren't willing to do what needs to be done, you do not have a need, you have a want.
>quit being a poorfag and make something of yourself
>/k/ loves guns, fuck you

this guide is NOT about what is best, it is about what is good enough.
a single shot shotgun is good enough, a semi-auto deluxe-pump with a flashlight and red-dot is best.
a cheap ass all polymer hi-point is good enough, a browning high-power with a flashlight-laser is best.
a cricket bolt action .22 is good enough, a gucci 10-22 in a custom bull-pup stock with a magnafier and red-dot is best.

this isn't about what is best, it is about good enough.
--- 57869466
>>57864208 (OP)
the heritage rough rider is a toy gun. the tactical cowboy is absolutely worth $170 of toy but it's not a gun i would ever trust my life on. and not because its single action and single action isn't suitable for self defense. which isn't, but zinc frame guns are zinc frame guns even if you aren't concered with the gun exploding

some retard boomer will tell you that they just throw theirs in the back of their truck and its no big deal because its $150 but its a terrible gun for a first gun because it won't teach you operating fundamentals and it truly isn't built to last more than a couple range sessions.
--- 57869537
>>57864208 (OP)
Why are you thinking of buying these guns? And why are you on a budget, are you actually a poorfag or are you just stingy?
If you're a poorfag who needs a gun because they need a gun you're gonna have to put aside your wants for a bit and choose something a little more practical.
If you're a poorfag who just wants a gun as a first gun then sure whatever, get the gun that interests you so you can get shooting or something.
If you're just stingy then you're a fucking retard, increase your budget so you're not buying low-tier trash.
--- 57869595
>>57869370
i have a zastava m88a which is made of such ridiculously soft low quality bullshit serbian steel that the slide has marks in it from being dropped and having things dropped on it. the slide is fucked because the metal is so soft

i have a ruger p89 which has a hard molebendium steel alloy slide and it looks and runs great. its 30 years old
--- 57869629
>>57869595
the p89 is an aluminum alloy, I would know I own one, it is also clearly stated in the material and wiki.

as for the zastava m88a, I cannot attest to the quality but it sounds like a mild-steel bordering on true iron, which is rare for a firearm. while that effects reliability it doesn't on safety
--- 57871298
>>57867079
>>57869370

the m&p first gen actually had about 3 different revisions. they changed the barrel, the trigger bar, and the sear over time. the early guns have the 'stainless' engravings. the ones without the engraving are guaranteed to have all the updated parts and an improved trigger
--- 57871327
>>57871298
Did they change from a stainless slide or whatever, or did they just stop putting "stainless" on the slide?
--- 57871358
>>57871298
no, the slide is still stainless steel. they probably just wanted to save a buck or 2 by not doing the engraving anymore. the real difference is the barrel's potential accuracy, trigger reset, and overall trigger feel. the early guns had some issues that got resolved over time.
--- 57871366
>>57871358
Thanks, anon. That's all I really wanted to know. The rest of the info is good too though.
--- 57871368
>>57871358
>>57871327

accidental response to my own post. see my last post as the response to your question
--- 57871380
>>57869595
>>57869629
>>57869466
>>57869370

I am going to repeat myself because people don't seem to understand.

Cheap doesn't mean something is bad. the association with cheap guns being bad is because from about 1960-1980 there was a massive influx of new shooters who were attempting to enter the market under the gun ban. as a result of various gun regulation many manufactures did a lot of weird things to jump around regulations so they could make a cheap, affordable, reliable firearm.

to start with prior to WWII almost all firearms were made from solid steel billets or forged into shape by a blacksmith. during WWII there was a lot of experimentation with using prefabricated parts and stamped sheet metal to make firearms. the Sten-gun is famous for being made from prefabricated parts and the MP 40 is famous for using stamped sheet metal. the principle here is the less you have to do to fabricate the part into shape the easier to manufacture.

the famous carry weapons around this time were the .38 LC revolver and 1911. there were a lot of other handguns that later evolved into what we view as "full size service" in that time these were small and pocket-able. there were "ladies guns" but they were not as cheap as most are now.

at around 1950s manufactures started looking at the next generation, taking examples from older models of semi automatic pistol they sought to make them more slender and less bulky. this lead to the fame of the sub-compact service pistol. this also is where the idea of a .380 apc subcompact comes from. examples are the walther ppk and Baby Browning.

in the 1960s there was a lot of gun bans so the common parlance switched to .38 snub nose revolvers and .25 acp automatics.
by the 1970s import bans were going into effect and so material resourcing became a problem, cheap Italian and German firearms could no longer be imported. this a weapon like the FIE titan was build so that it could get around import bans.
--- 57871401
>>57864466
If that's the case you cant afford to feed the Taurus so stick with the Roughrider
--- 57871436
>>57871380
cont.

by this was relatively stable through the 2000s when the bans dropped. when that happened there was a strong push for .380 acp as it had more stopping power and the loss of interest for .25 auto made it a relic ammunition. as a result there are a lot of good quality relic guns that can and will operate just fine. their reduction in price has to deal almost entirely with their lack of interest due to better quality alternatives.

as for what killed the .25 auto, it was a mix of the .380 acp and .22lr, which sounds weird because the .22lr is older. the .22 lr killed it because it went from poor reliability to high reliability over the course of the 1990s as manufactures adopted six sigma manufacturing practices. the .25 auto was superior to it for a long time because it used a primer-cap. the .380 acp killed it because it did everything that it could do but also has more stopping power.
--- 57871666
>>57869629
The frame is aluminum, the slide is steel.
--- 57872805
>>57871666
right... which is the point that the frame, which is where your hand goes is made from a high strength aluminum.

which is probably 6061 (a well balanced general purpose alloy) or 7075 (a well balanced high quality aluminum alloy)

What I have been advising against are guns which are branded as "metal frame" which is a deceptive code for die-cast grade zinc alloy these alloys may use more zinc in them than aluminum. Zamac is a popular alloy. Taurus was infamous for using this kind of pot metal in their gun frames back in the day. they still make them for their south American customers, but they very much won't for their north American customers.

generally if you have a metal frame gun and it feels very light and almost hollow, that is because it is a Zinc alloy.

all of this however only applies to older guns. tow thins have stopped all the reliability issues, six sigma and improved materials science. polymer is the new problem as manufactures try to figure out how to make the best plastic polymer. pure plastic frames don't work. the good ones are usually closer to a plastic-bonded-fiberglass or HDPE.

plastics are very up in the air right now and whatever magpul came up with seems to work well enough.
--- 57874250
>>57864308
Where are you getting those prices?
--- 57874532
>>57864208 (OP)
Well idk how poor you are but I’d recommend a Girsan MCP 35 which is a well made clone of a Browning Hi Power with some features that make it look better in my opinion. It’s very well made and accurate. Almost all the parts are interchangeable with a High Power and it’s a double stack 15 +1 mag for $400. 

The Germans as well as some other NATO forces used or still use the Hi power as their military sidearm. For the price it’s one of the best side arms you can buy. 

If you’re not specifically talking about I pistol though I’d recommend a cheap pump action shotgun. It’s good for home defense and you can duck hunt with one which is always a plus. Pump action shot guns brand new are very cheap compared to most other guns despite having much more firepower in certain situations.
--- 57874552
>>57874532
Also it’s a steel frame gun. I figured that might be important to people.
--- 57876378
there's basically no reason to buy a gun just because it's cheap. if you want a certain gun and it happens to be inexpensive that's one thing, but buying a shitty gun just because it's all you can afford at the time is nigger tier behavior. just save your money and buy a better gun that you won't end up regretting later on.

>>57864397
in my experience taurus has awful customer service. their phone queue lasts forever and they insist that you send everything in to the factory and won't even send you simple replacement parts.
--- 57876526
>>57871380
everything you posted is retarded. there have always been shitty cheap guns. iver johnson was the hi point of the 1920s. like that one autist who hates colt likes to point out, the most common handgun of the old west wasn't a colt or a s&w, it was shitty spur trigger pocket pistols. .25 acp fell out of common use because of saturday night special laws that specifically tried to ban all of the pot metal trash that was chambered in it.

just remember that you get what you pay for and you will be fine. and don't listen to anyone telling you to buy turkshit.