mu/115913096.txt

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--- 115913096
>be me, music theory brainlet
>want to talk about music theory with people but don't have music autist friends
>"I know, I'll go to /mu/"
>its only regurgitated garbage opinion/troll threads, /pol/ retarded bullshit or otherwise inane shit (looking at you scaruffi thread)

do you people actually even like music what the fuck. how can you live with yourselves being like this
--- 115913167
i guess i should've used more buzzwords in my OP to get you fucking mouthrbreathers to respond
--- 115913355
>>115913167
you already said /mu/ is retarded and not the right place to talk about theory (it's true), why do you still want to talk about theory on /mu/?
why did you go through all the steps of this reasoning and then decided to not act on it?
--- 115913398
>>115913355
i'm not allowed to ventilate anger about the state of /mu/? this place used to be ok, granted a long long long time ago
--- 115913410
>>115913398
>i'm not allowed to ventilate anger about the state of /mu/?
i thought you wanted to talk about theory
--- 115913482
he pissed himself
--- 115913607
>>115913096 (OP)
Have you considered making a thread like

>does the enharmonic equivalence of the augmented 5th and the minor 6th have any bearing on the tonal use of altered dominant chords in minor keys?

Instead of
>why don’t you guys talk about music theory this sucks I hate it here fuck you all

You haven’t said one single goddamn music theory related thing even as you sit here bitching about the lack of music theory conversation. Try being a part of the solution instead of the problem faggot
--- 115913668
>>115913410
i did, until i witnessed this cesspit of humanity and got angry instead. what's hard to grasp about that?

>>115913607
>Try being a part of the solution instead of the problem faggot
there's no solving the brain damage of the average poster of this board, i just wonder if they are aware and/or have any hopes of ever becoming an individual worthy of living
--- 115913737
>>115913096 (OP)
>troll thread
yes, this is
--- 115913784
>>115913607
But also, DOES the enharmonic equivalence of the augmented 5th and the minor 6th have any bearing on the tonal use of altered dominant chords in minor keys?
--- 115915517
Hi team, i know practically everything about music theory having taken classes in western harmony from counterpoint to 12 tone serialism during my abandoned music degree, and also having taught myself jazz harmony studying all from duke ellington to robert glasper. I also have a very high spacial iq which contributes to my near perfect sense relative pitch. AMA
--- 115915566
if you cannot make music without learning music theory first, you'll never be a good musician
--- 115915979
Then why are you still here?
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>>115913398
There is a thread like that almost everyday, you are not saying anything new or special
You are allowed to say that for sure but that's just another kind of garbage content
--- 115916653
>>115915517
Why the fuck would anyone study 12-tone serialism, it's patently obvious Schoenberg was just making up arbitrary rules with no basis in practical experience or observed musicality and nothing the "system" ever produced had any value whatsoever.

There are lots of approaches to chromaticism and perhaps even atonality that have merit and are deserving of attention, but none of them was arrived at by going "ok guys I made up some fucking music notes sudoku rules for your composition". They were arrived at by doing things that sounded good and that could not be analyzed through a tonal lens and required an atonal lens to understand them, and surprise surprise, 12-tone serialism couldn't do shit to help make heads or tails of how they worked.

Fuck Schoenberg.
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>>115913096 (OP)
What do you mean? i dont get it
--- 115916914
>>115913096 (OP)
Id like to talk about theory
I hate it, id rather make something that sounds cool
--- 115916939
>>115916653
>Why the fuck would anyone study 12-tone serialism
to tell you
like >>115915517
my college is full of this kind of dweebs
--- 115916959
>>115913096 (OP)
>"I know, I'll go to /mu/"
You really are a brainlet
--- 115916976
i dont get it
--- 115917016
>>115916914
If I ever teach a music theory class, the first day is just going to be nothing but compositional cliches and shortcuts, because something has to be done about a generation of musicians who learn 1% of existing music theory and go "well since XYZ doesn't fit in that explanation music theory must just be a bunch of bullshit rules that are holding back my art". I understand why a teacher would want to start with very simple shit like "this is how you build up the diatonic chords of a major key and a minor key" but way too many musicians never bother to learn any music theory past about the point of Bach chorales (or the circle of fifths) and think that their limited understanding is the totality of the field of study.

No, that "thing that sounds cool" that you made is not some utter demolition of hundreds of years of musical scholarship. Yes, it can be explained and formalized. Yes, that formalization will help you understand how it works in context so that you can handle it more easily (e.g. figuring out what notes might go well over top of it, how best to arrange it, or how to utilize it in other contexts). Yes, you could have figured out that "thing that sounds cool" faster and more effectively if you had understood what you were doing from the start.
--- 115917048
>>115916653
12 tone is purposely being agnostic to any tonal implications and treating all 12 western semitones equally. It is doing away with western notions of tonality and key centers, which is really akin to ethnocentrism, national conflicts, racism, etc. Serialism is the musical equivalent of diversity is our strength, and indeed it is, but you seem to think otherwise, chud.

(Pic related is you, probably)
--- 115917149
>>115917016
no

cool and tonal are different things, learning by ear is more important than learning theory
once you know what cool is you then analyze it, otherwise you end un modulating between 35 keys and using extended chords because you were taught that was cool
I see it happen every single day

you can explain it but it doesnt mean you get it
--- 115917167
>>115917048
>It is doing away with western notions of tonality and key centers
Doing away with western notions of tonality and key centers would be composing using Indian scales or something.

Also I know this is a shitpost, but it's always exhausted me that there really ARE people out there making atonal music. Like, actual music without notes at all, that people ACTUALLY listen to and not just for the purposes of trying to look smarter than their friends. But nobody in music theory academia talks about it and the implications of it.

As an example, try to transcribe this shit to staff paper:
https://youtu.be/_kDL90ao-0I?t=61 [Embed]

A generation of "atonalists" and "musique concrete" composers were desperately trying to force some sort of "revelation" in this direction and failed utterly because they weren't starting from the place all actual musicianship starts from: listening critically, and analyzing what works and what doesn't. Atonality is actually HERE, between EDM and rap there's a wealth of music that completely eschews any meaningful concepts of melody or harmonic relationship and defies being described meaningfully with sets of notes.

But do "Composition 404: Atonality" courses explain concepts like risers and impacts, subbass impulse trains, using broad pitch bends for timbral effect, or building melodic contour from broadband spectral response?

No, they teach "use all 12 chromatic notes and then flip them backwards and also flip them upside down and play them together. This is musical scholarship because a dude who wrote music for chamber orchestras made it"
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>>115917048
>ethnocentrism

why does music attract so many low IQ elitist 
12 tone is retarded, its an idea worth exploring like once in the history of music. anymore and you are being retaded and derivative
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>>115917167
>https://youtu.be/_kDL90ao-0I?t=61 [Embed]
based af
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>>115917167
Academia in general is mostly grift, the issues you describe here likely have some analogy in other fields as well. Probably worse in music since there arent life or death consequences if you teach the students bullshit. But it depends and the college and the professor, im sure there are people who write about what youre talking about.

On the other hand, music is so decentralized now and the lineage of western classical music has sort of disintegrated so it's not clear what should get the spotlight. Plus a lot of the music that people make is not thought through so much as it's the product of conumer technology, like what cool sounds can i make with this gadget made in china. Idk
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>>115917201
>>115917167
Music in the key of I dare you to try to tell me:
https://youtu.be/RCqyIT8KXYM?t=84 [Embed]

And if you were to go to a room full of "smart music people" and profess your love for this you'd probably get a smug comment about how modern dubstep butchers the work of pioneers like Burial.

It's wild to me that in the year 2023, all the tasteless kids are rocking out to atonal rhythmic noise, and all the "musical intelligentsia" are listening to the simplest compositions imaginable, and somehow looking down their noses about it. 

Imagine you could tell THAT to Arnold Schoenberg
>yeah in the future atonal music is actually a popular music trend but all the renowned composers of the day think it's for illiterate retards
--- 115917523
>>115917398
>4/4 time signature
>every musical motif repeats 4 or 8 times
>thoughtless simplistic back beat pattern, bares little relation to the other musical elements, could be replaced by any similar beat and work just as well
>similar sounding distorted textures throughought
>relies entirely proprietary sofware, can not be practically conceptualized and replicated outside of that
--- 115917540
what?
--- 115917611
>>115917523
Exactly so. And I don't dispute a word of it. The point is, no fucking notes.

And it's worth noting it's not just one song that's like that, it's the entire genre. The entire genre is 4/4 at the same tempo with almost identical back beats throughout, the same call-response structure over 4 or 8 bars, the same atonal riser with accelerated percussion to build tension that "resolves", the same way a G7 resolves to a C, by reduction to a single evolving timbral idea.

That's something interesting, academically. That's the creation of musical tension and release WITHOUT concepts like consonance and dissonance, and the creation of musical interest and memorability WITHOUT concepts like syncopation or melodic contour. It's literally just "build noise tension, release noise tension" and "this song is defined by this particular sound design".

I could identify most of the songs played in
https://youtu.be/Kf4vuurAZeI?t=162 [Embed]
by the timbre of the lead bass part alone. Which is the only thing that changes (apart from the pre-drop samples)

If you want to have a real conversation about atonality as it applies to composition and music theory, this is the music you need to be starting with.
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>>115913096 (OP)
>/pol/ retarded bullshit
just shot yourself in the foot troon. i went to school for music performance and composition and would have been happy to talk shop if you weren't a bleeding heart homosexual.
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>>115917523
exquisite bait
imagine having this opinion and then sharing it
--- 115917970
>>115917523
>4/4 time signature and this is a BAD thing
>every musical motif repeats 4 or 8 times which are even numbers, CRINGE
>thoughtless simplistic back beat pattern?? bares little relation to the other musical elements???, could be replaced by any similar beat and work just as well??????? but it isnt so?
>similar sounding distorted textures throughought and distorsion makes my ears hurt :(
>relies entirely proprietary sofware, can not be practically conceptualized and replicated outside of that and this is a bad thing for several reasons like I am a boomer