lit/21902612.txt

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--- 21902612
>Got almost everything right
>Most influential thinker of the 1920s
>Is completely forgotten outside some far right circles
Why was he forgotten?
--- 21902616
>>21902612 (OP)
Because he got almost everything wrong
--- 21902618
>>21902616
The only thing he was wrong about was the Nazis becoming a global power.
--- 21902620
>>21902612 (OP)
They dont want you to know about him
--- 21902625
>>21902620
He was a moderate conservative, hardly a radical far-right character.
--- 21902629
>>21902618
He met Hitler and thought he was an idiot.
--- 21902632
>>21902612 (OP)
>Sex gifs
>Sussy baka
--- 21902633
>>21902618
he famously said that "in 10 years, there will be no Reich", exactly 10 years before the end of WW2
--- 21902717
Spengler and Spenglerian thinking undermines the basic modern dogma: progress. There is a noble spirit in some who reject Spengler on this account, in older terms. A Faustian spirit which seeks progress in the purest sense, an outward thrust towards infinite space. Men of the last century wanted to believe we would go beyond.

Ah, but this degraded into something new: a hideous, prognathous nigger called Social Progress. Look at the barren, desiccated husk of a contemporary feminist preacher, who screams onward to new and more subversive causes. She is the priestess of the new religion, the emblem of nihilism, and the emasculated nu-male, truly a Nietzschean Last Man, is her parishioner under the sacraments of Satan: the suicidal Tranny, the criminal Jigaboo, and the diseased Faggot.
This priestess, this ugly pseudo-lesbian, operates under such a spiteful yet illusive mind, she refuses to see how empty a worldview she holds. This worldview is populated by one central idea: propaganda. So simple, so carefully wrapped. 
This is the sort of thing Spengler succinctly described in his analysis on money destroying the intellect (both practical in moneyed elites, but also in its nihilistic takedown of society). The last thing a late-stage liberal wants to hear is the truth, that there is no social progress, and that for all the signalling of virtues, they ultimately believe in nothingness. That all the causes and activism is funded by moneyed elites, often with ulterior motives. 
This is what all the open sexual debauchery, trannies, faggotry, feminism, and negrolatry amounts to: the inward extermination of western culture. Truly, it is our Burning of the Books.
What else can they, the modern Liberal of the Soul who is far more than just the Liberal by Name, do with Spengler except spite him, or far more commonly, ignore? How else can they comprehend that for all their inward impulses towards annihilation, that they too operate under a grand Faustian impulse to cover the world in faggotry like a shell, like a will-to-infinite-space? And they who cast the bargain with Mephistopheles must know, the bargain is doomed to fail. The quest is always tragic, and Western Man is destined to look at the infinity of the Void, alone.
--- 21902724
>>21902717
based
--- 21902743
>>21902717
I... I kneel
--- 21902764
>>21902717
Write more, this is good stuff
--- 21902810
>>21902717
what's the other half of harvey dent's face from? It looks really weird.
--- 21902849
>>21902618
He thought America would never matter politically.
--- 21902882
>>21902717
>the emblem of nihilism
>but also in its nihilistic takedown of society
give a fucking break faggot, stop using the label of nihilism for that shit make you piss and shit your pants
--- 21902913
>>21902882
You have an IQ of 100.
--- 21902914
>>21902810
scuffed statue of Ronaldo
--- 21902916
>>21902849
I'm pretty sure he says the opposite.
--- 21902923
>>21902913
100/100, yes lmao gottem
--- 21903000
>>21902882
Peak midwit.
--- 21903001
>>21902717
Based and red pilled.
--- 21903038
Spengluh,
Put your culture away, Spengluh.
I'm not having a decline of civilization with you right now, Spengluh.
--- 21903043
>>21902612 (OP)
Conservatives have basically ceased to exist as an intellectual force. So writers like Spengler and Spann which very well could have been the intellectual foundations of a Conservative revolution post world wars have basically not picked up by anyone with any social & cultural influence (e.g. left-wing academia).
--- 21903057
Sex gifs?
--- 21903104
>>21902916
You’re mistaken. He said America “lacked the inner basalt” because it grew up on foreign soil. It’s possible in the end that America isn’t destined to play the historical role that it now appears to be destined to play, but it’s not true that it had no political future in the 1930s.
--- 21903109
>>21903043
Spengler and others were worried that the Nazis would fail and discredit right wing attempts to exit from modernity.
--- 21903111
>>21903043
>Conservatives have basically ceased to exist as an intellectual force.

The current SCOTUS disagrees.
--- 21903131
>>21903057
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_j8oRi-rY [Embed]
--- 21903140
He didn't really have any influence on any other thinker of note. Only people like Evola.
--- 21903610
>>21903140

Spengler was hugely influential among the modernists, particularly David Jones, T.S. Eliot, and Ezra Pound. They maybe aren't thinkers in the sense you're using the term, but they are definitely mainstays of western culture. Spengler should be known, but I think most people just aren't interested in the humanities / culture. I mean, most people have never heard of James Joyce...

In terms of Spengler's popularity amongst those who actually know him, I think the lack of interest in Spengler has more to do with (1) His writings are too long to be read en masse; (2) The decline narrative is played out and mostly false (not to say we are always in an upward trajectory, just that history fluctuates and is generally difficult to pin down in grandiose terms); (3) Teleological interpretations of history and its movements are now outdated.
--- 21903628
>>21903140
This shows how little you know about modern intellectual and cultural history.. Spengler influenced anyone with an IQ over 110 between 1917 and 1940 and beyond. Wittgenstein, Benjamin, Northrop Frye, Heidegger, EVERYBODY read him if only to critique him or assimilate and sublate him into their system critically.
--- 21903689
>>21902717
tldr?
--- 21903706
He's just a footnote to Hegel & Schopenhauer.
--- 21903728
>>21902612 (OP)
he's sadly getting too overmemed nowadays
I wish he was gatekept more
--- 21903734
>>21903140
He influenced Kazantzakis and Paglia said his work should be studied.
--- 21903753
>>21902612 (OP)
>got almost everything right
That's why. Academics hate good theories, because it puts them out of a job.
--- 21903779
>>21903140
Kissinger told Nixon to read him
Wittgenstein wrote about him
And you're a nigger
--- 21904089
>>21902717
Now that's what I call owning the libs
--- 21904106
>>21902612 (OP)
We are a collapsing society. Ideologically the false concept of progress has prevailed and found its way into every part of modern thinking, which of course complete nonsense.
Spengler will be rediscovered after centuries and considered the greatest thinker of the 20th century.
--- 21904125
>>21902625
Moderate conservative views from the 1920s are hardcore far right terrorist views for 2023
--- 21904192
>>21903140
I know plenty of leftists/post leftists who are obsessed with him and Deleuze and Heidegger
--- 21904194
>>21904192
name 1
--- 21904254
>>21904194

Not the original poster, but I know W.H. Auden was a leftist and interested in Spengler.
--- 21904260
>>21904192
thats me
--- 21905710
>>21902849
No he didnt. He specifically called out German writers/thinkers of the late 19th century for missing the fact that after the Civil War New York was becoming one of the most important "world cities"
--- 21905730
>>21903140
William S. Burroughs
Wittgenstein
Paglia
Heidegger
Joseph Campbell
Adorno
Kissinger
--- 21905739
im not right wing or religious at all (or even Christian) but Spengler's section on "the figure of Jesus" in Decile is one of the most beautiful things i have ever read.
--- 21905745
>>21902717
more?
--- 21905749
>>21905739
Ever read Jaspers' book on Socrates, Buddha, Confucius, Jesus
--- 21905752
>>21905749
No. tell me more
--- 21905777
jesus christ marie
--- 21905808
>>21903140
brainlet
--- 21905832
>>21902717
Supremely based.
--- 21905852
>>21902717
What movie is this image from?
--- 21905870
>>21903111
Yes there are still conservatives in some disciplines like law, political science, and economics. There are nearly zero conservative faculty in the humanities in virtually every major university in the western world.
--- 21906048
>>21905739
I've read some of Spengler's private correspondence that's been published, and I suspect he might've been a believing Protestant. It just wasn't a focus of his work, and something he would think as out of character to write about in that time. And, it would not be popular in the Nietzschean literary circles, maybe, even though Nietzsche had some theologian and religious friends. 
I always thought there was a discord between Nietzschean and Spenglerian thinking. Clearly, Spengler saw something vital and beautiful in religious faith, specifically in the culture forms of Western Christianity, even though the trend in German philosophy was more anticlerical since Schopenhauer.
--- 21906774
>>21906048
Neetche was just a high IQ permanent angsty teen who rebelled against his theologian parentals. Fuck him, what a disgrace on western thought.
--- 21906776
>>21906774
You deserve to be beat unconscious.
--- 21907072
>>21906048
Vitalism is fundamentally Nietzschean. Spengler is too much of a Nietzschean and it's the worst thing about him. Like he claims to "see further than others" because he doesn't judge history by the same value judgements as everyone else, yet his entire philosophy of history is one giant value judgement. Kultur and Zivilization are value judgements and it's extremely obvious which one Spengler prefers, since throughout the entirety of TDotW he never discusses Zivilization, and when he does it is only in negative terms. For him history ends after the year 1800. 

The distinction between the two phases is still useful but not in the way Spengler does it. Spengler does not want to understand the modern age, like most right wingers he has nothing but revulsion for it. Which makes right wing analysis of modern culture arbitrary and useless. Spengler was a follower of Goethe, but Goethe's most dearly held principle was that there is good in all things - in the philosophy of history this can be translated to mean that if a historical phenomenon exists, then the zeitgeist sees value in it and has need of it. Between the artist in Goethe and the philosopher in Nietzsche, Spengler leans far more heavily toward Nietzsche. 

If anyone is interested in a more serious treatment of the philosophy of Zivilization than Spengler's I recommend reading the essays of John J. Reilly.
--- 21907146
>>21902717
>Faustian

explain what this means in two sentences
--- 21907170
>"Where to start Spengler"
>Second result is sports
>Third result is Ghostbusters
>Majority of subsequent results are Ghostbusters
Perhaps that validates his concerns about post-2000 society. 

Anyway, where to start Spengler?
--- 21907236
>>21907146
I'm not him, but Faust is a character from German legend who sold his soul for infinite knowledge and worldly pleasure, about whom Goethe wrote a play. Spengler uses Faust as a symbol for western civilisation
--- 21907254
>>21907170
The Decline of the West, Vol 1. Huge book. Read the introduction. You'll have an idea. If you're ready, finish the book. If that's troubling, track down some secondary material (most of which you might have to find online). If you're not ready, read his book Man and Tecnics, which although is a matured Spengler, is also a short book. 
Spengler, despite being autistic, will sometimes intentionally dramatize certain topics, almost like a polemic. Don't expect Kant, where everything is meant to fit under an exact schema. Still, almost everything he writes is in reference to his model of cultural morphology and his view of history.
--- 21907258
>>21905870
There were conservatives in law, but not anymore. Today, they are few and far between and correspond almost exclusively to the oldest population. The same is true for economics. Educational institutions have bred a faculty totally saturated with the same line of thinking and purged most those who stand out. Many of the millennials were filtered out even before they were able to receive a bachelor’s degree and generation z is being filtered out before even attending.
--- 21907268
>>21906048
I detect a lot of nihilism in Spengler. I find it hard to believe he was religious at all and believed in destiny as a naturalistic principle above all. Human life is deterministic in Spengler.
--- 21907274
>>21905710
His exact words are that it lacked the inner basalt like in Goethe’s poem. He was worried about America like he was worried about Japan, a nearly foreign power.
--- 21907281
>>21907274
>>21903104
shut the fuck up you fucking surface level reader garbage faggot
--- 21907512
What is the best edition/translation of Spengler?
--- 21907539
>>21902612 (OP)
It took him like the whole show to figure out walter white was heisenberg then he died instantly.
--- 21907950
>>21907539
I thought it was poetic. He speaks against nazis in Decline of the West and can see the future, but he can't see through Walter and ends up dying to nazis.
--- 21908306
>>21903734
>paglia
oh no no no hchhchaahhahahaha
--- 21908369
>>21902717
>I am very smart
Now try again without vomiting Russian propaganda points about "muh niggers and trannies".
--- 21908390
>>21903140
Toynbee, Huntington, Wittgenstein, Kissinger, Borkenau, etc
--- 21908442
>>21905852
The dark knight. It’s edited though
--- 21909190
>>21908369
subpar bait
--- 21909198
>>21903109
On one hand, they were right. On the other hand, had the Germans succeeded in exiling liberalism and communism from continental Europe and East Asia, modernity may never have recovered.
--- 21909477
>>21907512
The Arktos editions are good
--- 21909659
>>21902625
He was in no way a moderate conservative.
--- 21909675
>>21903734
Info about Kazantzakis? He’s one of my favourite writers
--- 21909700
>>21907258
>There were conservatives in law, but not anymore
wtf are you talking about the supreme court just overturned Roe and it took like 50 years. so much for "used to"
--- 21909717
>>21909700
>used to
*were
--- 21909718
>>21909700
Do you really think it was easy to find those justices, who are in their 50s, 3 decades older than the typical law student by the way?
--- 21909735
>>21909718
so why didn't it happen earlier, when you say law was more conservative?
--- 21909744
>>21909735
Was a kind of lucky coincidence because Trump somehow won and then there were a bunch of SC openings.
--- 21909756
>>21909718
>3 decades older than the typical law student by the way?
the supreme court isnt an entry level position, retard
--- 21909759
>>21909756
Right, so if you think that is then norm for the rest of the field of law, you are mistaken.
--- 21909818
>>21909759
Nobody said that. Regardless, there are tens of thousands of people in the Federalist Society alone.
https://fedsoc.org/about-us
--- 21910112
>>21902717
How can one man can write so beautifully and with such inspiration (not to mention the inspiration which can be extracted from this piece of writing!) and yet be so foolish as to use this gift to suffocate others with the stink of his wretched soul?
--- 21910364
>>21908369
>IT'S THE RUSSIANS!
How is it having an antenna for CNN in place of a brain?
--- 21910394
>>21905739
Thanks for mentioning this. Reading this section now and really enjoying it.
--- 21910428
>>21902612 (OP)
sex gifs
--- 21910442
>>21909718
Judicial activism was worse in the last century, and most of those conservative judges were educated in those days.
--- 21910449
>>21902717
By far the most based post on this board right now
--- 21910469
>>21902612 (OP)
He was a hack fraud who was wrong about almost everything.
--- 21910682
>>21907512
>>21909477
they're the only acceptable ones still in print
--- 21911060
>>21910112
This projection is funny
--- 21911066
>>21910590
Why do philosophers always need Jesus
--- 21911080
>>21910442
But that’s not the topic. The topic was whether one ideological tendency has a monopoly on the field today, and it does. That there was less of a monopoly but more activism in the past is irrelevant.
--- 21911086
>>21909818
You did. That’s exactly what you were arguing, that law isn’t an almost exclusively liberal-progressive field. It is. The Federalist Society means nothing. It’s merely a refuge for people who don’t subscribe to the dogma 100%. Virtually all lawyers are liberals in some sense by default. Most of them are progressives. More so now because of the stranglehold the colleges have on the profession. If you even think about conceptually what law is you realize it accepts liberal principles by default. Even Spengler mentions this in the second volume of Decline of the West. He dedicates an entire chapter to the legal profession.
--- 21911142
>>21910590
>They are indignant when a murderer is executed for a crime of passion, but they feel a secret pleasure in hearing of the murder of a political opponent.

This sentence does encapsulate all modern politics in the West. God I hate redditors.
--- 21911296
>>21909675
There are many papers on him being influenced by Splengler, if you Google (most of them in English). I'm not familiar with Kazantakis' works, only his life, so I can't tell you much.
--- 21911301
>>21902612 (OP)
>What a revelation it was for the mass of people who were unfamiliar with actual thinking and its rich history when two decades ago, in 1917, Oswald Spengler announced that he was the first to discover that every age and every civilization has its own world view! Yet it was all nothing more than a very deft and clever popularization of thoughts and questions on which others long before him had ruminated far more profoundly. Nietzsche was the most recent of these. Yet no one by any means mastered these thoughts and questions, and they remain unmastered up to the present hour. The reason is as simple as it is momentous and difficult to think through.
--- 21911322
>>21902717
--- 21912337
>>21902717
Screencaping this post for future generation
--- 21912388
>>21902717
I still believe in progress in a sense of transhumanism, but otherwise I guess this is put well enough.
--- 21912482
>>21902633
I know you believe you are very smart but just by saying this in context of this thread actually small people know you are full of shit please log off
--- 21912644
Spengler's philosophy is a pompous and outdated attempt to impose a rigid and arbitrary framework on the diversity and complexity of human history. It's a reactionary, ideologically driven worldview that argues civilizations degenerate when materialism, rationalism, imperialism, and democracy dominate. It frames itself as an objective mode of analysis but is clearly ideologically biased towards illiberalism and ignores anything that challenges his ideological preconceptions. He overlooks the diversity and dynamism within each culture, as well as the continuity and change across cultures. He arbitrarily divides history into neat periods and stages that do not correspond to reality, cherry picking examples and evidence to fit his preconceived notions. He confuses his own subjective impressions and preferences with objective facts and values.

It merely is a reflection of his own pessimism and nostalgia for a mythical past. He advocates for a return to authoritarianism, nationalism, militarism, and mysticism as a solution to the problems of liberalism. He is a cultural elitist who looks down on other cultures as inferior or decadent, and a determinist who denies human agency and possibility. It is a waste of time and energy for anyone who wants to learn something useful or meaningful about how history or culture actually develop.
--- 21912657
>>21912644
extremely homosexual post
--- 21912673
>>21912644
Inaccurate. Spengler clearly lays out the principles and mechanisms of his theory and provides examples to support it. It's not an ideological view but an objective analysis of how societies and cultures organically develop.
--- 21912679
>>21912644
The only thing he got wrong was overstating the organic metaphor and saying that decline is inevitable. As Quigley says:

When we come to apply this process, even in this rather vague form, to our own 
civilization, Western Civilization, we can see that certain modifications are needed. Like 
other civilizations, our civilization began with a period of mixture of cultural elements 
from other societies, formed these elements into a culture distinctly its own, began to 
expand with growing rapidity as others had done, and passed from this period of 
expansion into a period of crisis. But at that point the pattern changed. 

In more than a dozen other civilizations the Age of Expansion was followed by an 
Age of Crisis, and this, in turn, by a period of Universal Empire in which a single 
political unit ruled the whole extent of the civilization. Western Civilization, on the 
contrary, did not pass from the Age of Crisis to the Age of Universal Empire, but instead 
was able to reform itself and entered upon a new period of expansion. Moreover, Western 
Civilization did this not once, but several times. It was this ability to reform or reorganize 
itself again and again which made Western Civilization the dominant factor in the world 
at the beginning of the twentieth century. 

...

By 1930 it was clear that Western Civilization was again in an Age of Conflict; by 
1942 a semi -peripheral state, Germany, had conquered much of the core of the 
civilization. That effort was defeated by calling into the fray a peripheral state (the United 
States) and another, outside civilization (the Soviet society). It is not yet clear whether 
Western Civilization will continue along the path marked by so many earlier 
civilizations, or whether it will be able to reorganize itself sufficiently to enter upon a 
new, fourth, Age of Expansion. If the former occurs, this Age of Conflict will 
undoubtedly continue with the fourfold characteristics of class struggle, war, irrationality, 
and declining progress. In this case, we shall undoubtedly get a Universal Empire in 
which the United States will rule most of Western Civilization. This will be followed, as 
in other civilizations, by a period of decay and ultimately, as the civilization grows 
weaker, by invasions and the total destruction of Western culture. On the other hand, if 
Western Civilization is able to reorganize itself and enters upon a fourth Age of 
Expansion, the ability of Western Civilization to survive and go on to increasing 
prosperity and power will be bright. 

(Note that the historian of civilizations Quigley basically agrees with, appropriates, and modifies Spengler's own framework, showing the power of the framework and its long term influence)
--- 21912686
>>21912644
You've never read him have you?
--- 21912700
>>21912673
It's not objective, it's clearly ideologically biased.
--- 21912702
>>21912686
He's heard him summarized in a video essay! That's just as good, chud!
--- 21912711
>>21912644
This better be elaborate bait but i dont care. If you really think Spengler was a reactionary or even a conservative, then you fundamentally dont understand him. His entire philosophy hinges on the fact that reaction is impossible and conservatism is futile. He very openly says in the introduction to Decline that it's completely pointless now to focus on arts and philosophy and that only science and technology still have uncharted territory that can be explored.
--- 21912762
>>21912711
>>21912644
wtf he's just like me
--- 21912782
>>21902717
totally overrated post
lit is pathetic
--- 21912800
>>21902717
Underrated post
--- 21912835
>>21912644
filtered. hard.
--- 21912838
>>21902616
How so? Care to explain? Or you are just here to sully?
--- 21912872
>>21912679
It doesn’t make any sense to say at the time of his writing that Western Civilization didn’t enter a stage of crisis because Spengler bookmarked the beginning of the stage of crisis at 2000 AD. I also think it’s highly debatable if you could say that it reformed itself and entered into a new period of expansion. The 20th century was as Spengler called it a period of contending states and the phenomena of Nazism and Fascism, merely idealistic and romantic precursors to the sort of pragmatic Caesarism that ushers in the Universal Empire and is inevitable only in the 21st century
--- 21912876
>>21911301
Ironic coming from a guy who stole all of his ideas from his friends.
--- 21912880
>>21912644
lol go back to your cultural studies class
--- 21912881
>>21912711
He called Caesar a conservative leader many times.
--- 21912928
Spengler is enlighening in the sense that he predicted ww2 and cold war politics by being a propagandist for western imperialism (i.e. he was germcuck with British cum in his brain like Nietzsche). For example a large part of his political work such as prussian socialism mentains the lebensraum ideology and expansion east that was central to both ww1 and ww2 German imperialist ideology because Germany did not have colonies. 

Another enlightening aspect is that Spengler predicted a "colored relolution" with Soviet russia leading it, that is giving the "coloreds" the technology to fight the coloniser westerners. That is his central thesis that he wants to avoid in both central europe and the colonies, the colonized against the colonisers. Fast forward 50 years and Kissinger writes his dissertation on Spengler and re-iterates the same point with regards to anti-Soviet containment. That what the 3rd reich was in the end, a berserker state funded by wallstreet to end revolutionary socialism, and thats what NATO, the World Bank and the IMF are today, instruments of containment and vassalization of the 3rd world working in an unhinged way since they have no Soviet Union to oppose them globaly.
--- 21912974
>>21912928

Also I forgot to mention another crucial aspect on why Spengler was a reactionary darling for the Nazis. Spengler reformulated along with Sorel, but in more "mythicists" terms (that is completely ahistorical) the notion of "organic evolution of statehood and the "organic state". Fascism has as its central state that both capital, labor and the "enlightned" leaders of said state form a united organic whole like a human body. Another central tenet and characteristic of fascism is the notion of "charismatic leaders" (as also outlined by Max Weber) . In Spengler this notion is conviently taken under the guise of Caesar and Caesarism. 

Now one might ask himself how the fuck did does one person run a whole society or even becomes the face of one whole society or culture , even if it "declining". The simple answer is he doesn't , like Arendt says these charismatic fascist leaders run their countries to the ground or even in pre-modern societies get assasinated like with Caesar. Thus even his Caesarian solution for modern times proved disastrous because like with western history it focused on organic or pseudo-historical elements like "spirit", "symbols" and other new agey shit that were vogue at the time. 

The only way to truly understand history is through contradiction, that is what Hegel did and that is what Marx did . All else run through cul de sacs because they can't see contradiction within their own historical horizon and thus can be accounted as bourgeois intellectuals that can't stop huffing the superiority of their own time, or how good the old times were. Spengler takes this schema and merely makes it cyclical (repetition of the same and thus anti-materialist). That is in essence, ideological.
--- 21912993
>>21912881

Caesar was anything but conervative he was with the "populares" because the conservative optimates patricians had stifled the proletarian plebians with debt and the latifundia plantation system. Caesar on the other hand promissed debt forgiveness and openly gave his property after his death to the Roman people. Thats why people were willing to die for Caesar and made him into a god, not just because of his laurels.
--- 21913235
bump
--- 21913387
>>21902612 (OP)
Is it possible to be a materialist and a fan of Spenglerian thought? I have only a surface level understanding of his philosophy, which appears to be very idealist in the sense that each high culture has a worldview and perspective, which is unique to its own. I just do not agree with the whole concept of ‘prime symbols’, in terms of how it is presented as metaphysical. I am definitely going to read ‘Decline Of The West” at some point, though.
--- 21913392
>>21913387
You should read Adorno's essay on him in Prisms
--- 21913401
>>21913387
You should read the anthology of Benjamin Whorf's essays with the teal/blue cover, Language something. His idea of different languages mirroring entirely different kinds of thought is interestingly similar
--- 21913430
>>21902717
BAP, is that you? You need to get off twitter my negro, that shit has consumed you.
>>21905852
Ah, the rare Serbian /lit/ poster.
--- 21913443
>>21902618
If you apply his formula to China, then around 200BC should have been in a slump, but this was a period of immense cultural growth
--- 21913455
>>21912993
I don’t think the things you mentioned necessarily makes him not a conservative but I agree that he wasn’t a conservative. Still, Spengler called him conservative. He said the Caesars are all conservative leaders.
--- 21913460
Would a synthesis of Marx with Spengler be possible?
--- 21913464
>>21913460
>Would a synthesis of Marx with Spengler be possible?
Absolutely not. In a lot of ways Spengler is the anti-Marx.
--- 21913475
>>21913460
No. Marx is too materialist.
--- 21913478
>>21912974
>Spengler takes this schema and merely makes it cyclical
History is cyclical brainlet.
You'll get your commie utopia when the apparatchik lines you up in front of a wall and puts a bullet in the back of your head you retarded, subhuman, piece of shit.
--- 21913484
>>21912644
>Spengler's philosophy is a pompous and outdated attempt to impose a rigid and arbitrary framework on the diversity and complexity of human history
>diversity and complexity
lol
lmao even
--- 21913494
>>21903610
>The decline narrative is played out and mostly false (not to say we are always in an upward trajectory, just that history fluctuates and is generally difficult to pin down in grandiose terms)
--- 21913527
>>21913460
He attacked Marx in one of his essays but he also said positive things about Lenin.
--- 21913550
>>21913478

I'm in my room , and repling to you in this Vietnamese cartoon forum. This has never happened before. Do you understand the difference beatween contigency and agency in history?
--- 21913555
>>21913478
Spengler rejects cyclical history. There is never a return.
--- 21913559
>>21913430
I'm not from Serbia. But I love his art.
--- 21913582
>>21913555
For the civilization that came and passed, no.
But human history is a history of the rise and fall of civilizations, and is therefor cyclical. 
Each might have its own symbols, but the symbols are ultimately irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant is the cycle.
>>21913550
>agency in history?
It doesn't exist.
--- 21913608
>>21913582
>Human history is a history of the rise and fall of civilizations
Spengler disagred.
--- 21914287
>>21914285
jesus christ shut the fuck up
--- 21914306
>>21914285
Your comment alone proves his point of the West declining.
--- 21914310
anons,
what are your favorite spengler quotes?
--- 21914944
>>21902717
Blessed post, Nietzscheans BTFO
--- 21915001
>>21913582

>It doesn't exist.

Then shut the fuck up, whats the point of replying to me then? Why do anything lmao.
--- 21915348
https://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1681474866439717.webm
--- 21916559
>>21912644
Spongebobler btfo by chatgpt frfr ong
--- 21916581
>>21915348
https://files.catbox.moe/rdul8i.webm
--- 21916681
>>21902612 (OP)
I was wondering if it is possible to view some of Spengler’s more fictional and artistic works? Does anyone here know where I might find them? Thanks.
>At age 15, Spengler filled whole booklets with visions and detailed sketches of two fictitious empires, down to administrative procedures and economic statistics. At 17, he wrote a stage play about Moctezuma, probing the encounter of two alien cultures.
https://www.oswaldspenglersociety.com/oswald-spengler
--- 21916686
>>21916681
what the fuck, how come i never knew about that?
Didnt a lot of his library burn down in a fire?
--- 21916694
His deterministic view of history has the stench of Marx about it. At least he understands that the history of the Classical and Occidental civilizations are more tragic than glorious, but we still live in a cosmos where anything is possible.
--- 21916724
>>21916686
>Didn’t a lot of his library burn down in a fire?
Idk. I just found this information out a few days ago. Funny, considering I was thinking about writing my own account of a fictional empire. I am definitely interested in Spengler’s fictional civilisations. Sounds fun to read.
--- 21916841
>>21902717
>western man so oppressed
so this is what autism looks like
--- 21918221
Name one historian who takes Spengler seriously today.
--- 21918228
Name one historian anyone should take seriously today.
--- 21918249
>>21902612 (OP)
I just looked him up. Seems a little more respectable than Nostradamus. Also, just confirms my theory that if you're aware of "post hoc ergo propter hoc" you're empowered to sound smarter than 90% of self-proclaimed "intellectuals" in the humanities. Slavoj Zizek can sound smarter than a submental like Peterson, sure, but he's still a "Hegelian" with some insane "theory of history".
--- 21918256
>>21918228
Chris Wickham is a good historian.
--- 21918329
If Spengler was right, it makes me sad to to think of what a non-modern or non-technological Western civilization could have been. To have seen knights march like Roman tribunes, American senators write chivalric poems, and cities of gothic and baroque architecture in stone would’ve been incredible. Instead, we got drone strikes, lawyer-senators, and six lane highways.
--- 21918361
>>21918228
Not a historian but Kissinger was a fan of Spengler. He disagreed with his pessimism but Kissinger is also the kind of man who thinks the devil has his best interest at heart.
--- 21918721
>>21918329
But imagine having no modern hygiene that would suck and that is the single reason why I'll take present conditions over anything good of past
--- 21918749
>>21912928
nietzsche made it clear he thought brits were subhumans, retard-o
>exposes himself as a marxtranny in the next post
figures
--- 21918962
>>21918749

Nietzsche 's political writtings are pro-British empire and pro-colonialism. His "leveling" of europe is essentially the British empire model. The only group that opposed european colonialism at the time, were the far-left socialists which both Nietzsche attacks repeatedly as well as Spengler in both man and technics and Prussian Socialism. 

Also come up with better arguments.
--- 21920026
wow so profound i love spengler
--- 21920028
>>21920026
bait
--- 21920046
>>21920028
this is literally what every single spenglerdrone believes
--- 21920279
>>21905730
Cioran
Baudrillard
Toynbee
Yockey
--- 21920303
>>21918329
>non-modern or non-technological Western civilization
would have been steamrolled by the first people to adopt technology.
The impact of technology on society and culture is always understated even today. Things are the way they are today because of telecommunications technology. It's natural that Spengler was wrong as he couldn't have seen it coming. We still don't quite know what's coming.
--- 21920492
>>21902612 (OP)
How about, he’s an incel philosopher? There’s no place for rhetoric that fuels hatred in the 21st century.
--- 21920728
>>21918962
kill yourself you fucking surface-reader marxtranny retard and actually read nietszche and not some 'gotcha' materialist commentary by chatgpt or some other aids-ridden marctranny. he almost equates anglodytes with negroes on a spiritual/religious/moral level.
--- 21920946
>>21910590
>mwf this is what "alt"-righters and cuckservatives unironically deem "deep" philosophy
>"Man is a beast of prey"
Not even the ancestors of mankind were beasts of prey. But for some mysterious reasons, human are. Sure, seems legit.
>"They shout. "No more war" - but they desire class war."
No you fucking retard, they (the small fraction of people who should somehow prove his thesis) desire class STRUGGLE which is a completely different thing.
>"What objection have they ever raised to the Bolshevist slaughters?"
A shitload of them? Is this moron really that ignorant or he just hopes his audience are?
--- 21920964
>>21902618
he's not wrong, it's just taking a bit longer than originally anticipated.
--- 21921045
>>21920946
>Not even the ancestors of mankind were beasts of prey. But for some mysterious reasons, human are. Sure, seems legit.
yeah we are. Wherever humans went, mass extinction of megafauna followed. Why? Because we preyed on them.
--- 21921127
>>21920946
Hey dumbarse, it was written in 1931.
--- 21922582
Bump.
--- 21922848
>>21902612 (OP)
He was too real. Also he relativised the West, and that's a bridge too far for American unipolarity. It was all G for Spengler inspired thinkers to be dominant in the Anglosphere and the US empire after WW2, since that era was built on *breaking* Western chauvinism and doing internationalism with respect and learning from different cultures. With unipolarity though? Oof. BIG oof to suggest that the West isn't the only thing worth anything. 

>>21902717
They're compatible for people who aren't retards in the sense that you can *learn* from other cultures, see common humanity etc. What he's *really* unsuited for is American progressive chauvinism of the late 20th C and early 21st C kind. 
Those people *hate* genuine difference when it's paired with strength. (i.e. Spenglerian civilisation-scale high cultural formations expressed politically) And Spengler's worldview may indeed explain in part *why* the US establishment seethes so much at Russia compared to the size of Russia's sphere of influence on a map. It's the fear of a Rus planet due to the virulent powerful Russian cultural SEED. 
Whereas China is more like Western statecraft done better than the West, with a bit of Russian inspiration. Making it previously an object of veneration and only very late and reluctantly a cause of concern.
--- 21922910
>>21902612 (OP)
Because he was right and now we listen to rap and watch reality shows.
--- 21923165
>>21904194
Probably just the guys he chats with on trannycord.
--- 21923192
>>21920728

Damn you mad someone poked at your prophet lmao?You are a moron that can't do basic interpretations and contextualization of what Nietszche says in other parts. , I have read all of Nietszche and all of Spengler. Nietszche 's aristocratic and colonialist attitude as well as pro-British political opinion is well established. Pic related.
--- 21923196
>>21908390
Bill Clinton via Quigley 
Malcolm X
--- 21923199
>>21902612 (OP)

Because the cult of progress desperately sprang back to life after World War 2, as the new liberal and communist states moved to justify the pointless waste of millions of lives and their own moral culpability for the war. Circular history and naratives of inenvitable decline don't sit well with the need to form meaning from tragedy and justify new political orders.
--- 21923217
>>21923199

Spengler was a liberal and social Darwinist. He is not unique in his time. The only group that actively opposed liberalism and capitalism were the socialists. Fascism was just another defence of capitalism and the liberal bourgeois only with an aristocracy on top.
--- 21923228
>>21923196

>Clinton

Checks out
--- 21923299
>>21903610
>The decline narrative is played out and mostly false (not to say we are always in an upward trajectory, just that history fluctuates and is generally difficult to pin down in grandiose terms);
i saw a picture on here a few years ago that i thought i had saved but apparently not
it was a graph of the history of the byzantine empire with the line increasing or decreasing based on Y-territory and X-time
there would be a large territory loss and the line went down sharply, then a tiny victory, line went up slightly, then a large territory loss, line went down sharply and it just repeated until 1453 when constantinople fell

i just thought that was interesting
--- 21924721
>>21923299
what's interesting about it
--- 21925342
>>21912644
>clearly ideologically biased towards illiberalism
its not wrong to be biased against a bad thing. ask all the modern liberal institutions and they'll go hard against nationalism, nativism, etc. this is just saying he's wrong because they disagree.
--- 21925356
>>21923228
"Corporate" means corporatist in the Catholic sense, i.e., more like a restoration of guilds, than like capitalist limited liability corps
--- 21925371
>>21903140
>According to Harold Ramis, the name "Egon Spengler" was inspired by Egon Donsbach, a foreign exchange student at his high school, and historian Oswald Spengler
--- 21925372
>>21925371
i dont believe you
--- 21925435
>>21922848
You’re half right. They’re only allergic to it because unipolarity is empire trying desperately not to appear as empire.
--- 21925442
>>21918721
You would still be able to brush your teeth and wipe your ass you know.
--- 21925449
>>21920303
I also think he didn’t adequately address technology. It’s telling that his model is basically perfectly right up until the Atlantics run away with Word War 2 and the Cold War almost purely of superior technology. A British-American Empire doesn’t quite make sense in his model since there’s never been a thallasocracy to evolve into one. Rome, Ottomans, Xin, all land-based war states. I also wondered why every other culture-civilization seemed to be drawn along religious lines except the West. Somehow the borders of a single culture-civilization ended where a single religion ended, except the West which ends right in the middle between Western Gothic Christianity and Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Maybe he worried about a Russian Hyksos when he should’ve been worried about Russian Empire.
--- 21926080
>>21912644
Nigger your culture's deteriorating. Why should I put any effort into it?
--- 21926120
german right wing thinker in the early 20th century you say? uh oh scoob, i dont like the sound of that
--- 21926132
>>21920946
>Not even the ancestors of mankind were beasts of prey.
What the hell does this even mean? Leftists don't live in the real world.
--- 21927300
>>21926120
kek
--- 21927314
>>21902612 (OP)
He was not what the post-'45 liberal hegemony needed. It's like the story of Plotinus who was practically completely forgotten until the late 18th, early 19th century when german idealists rediscovered him as a predecessor of sorts, thinkers are popular because their ideas are popular at a given time and in a particular milieu, not because of their ideas in themselves.
--- 21927511
>>21903111
he is just a puppet playing his part in the illusion of choice berween two tightly correlated neoliberal entities larping as a democracy
--- 21928591
>>21912644
This reads like a reddit post lol
--- 21928620
>>21902717
This encapsulates every lit non-fiction discussion ever had. I swear I've seen these exact words written 100 times by various litizens. Always the trannies, always the faustian man, always the nihilism and social progress. I appreciate your knack for prose but this is highly unoriginal and nothing more than a wikipedia summary of other posts here. Lurk moar, essentially.
--- 21928654
>>21902616
Is that you "niggerkiller"? https://twitter.com/artyfender?s=20
--- 21928664
>>21913460
Do it anon, don't let your dreams be dreams
--- 21928691
>>21928620
Doesn't make it any less true
--- 21928718
>>21902717
Progress is definitely happening though. It's just that it ascends contained civilizations.
--- 21928756
>>21928620
its the spirit of the age... of course its recurring
--- 21928770
>>21928620
It's chan culture they all eat out of the same bowl, any regular knew the gist before even getting a third of the way through it. It's funny how he points out heckin propaganda as if he himself hasn't been a victim of propaganda and rhetoric from this site.
--- 21929086
>>21922848
Thomas777 is that you?
--- 21929096
>>21903111
>The current SCOTUS disagrees.
Did they ban abortion yet? Yeah, that's what I've thought. Faggot.
--- 21929107
>>21907072
>Spengler does not want to understand the modern age, like most right wingers he has nothing but revulsion for it.
Based?
>Nuuu, you have to study troons and sheit!
Fuck you, to the asylum, NOW!
--- 21929116
>>21928770
You don't get it, /pol/ is telling the truth (((they))) don't want you to know about. It's not propaganda, it's just hidden knowledge suppressed by cultural marxist subverters. Just because we happen to share the same exact positions as Steve Bannon and the Russian government means nothing, we are free thinkers.
--- 21929472
>>21902612 (OP)
He straightened a Slinky
--- 21929642
>>21918228
Panagiotis Kondylis
--- 21929649
>>21912700
Everything is ideologically based, retard.
--- 21929694
>>21902717
>the west has fallen
>billions must die
--- 21929746
>>21902612 (OP)
He isn't forgotten. Decline of the West (translated as the Decline of Europe) was obligatory reading at several courses at my Russian university. 

I don't think he is that perceptive. This genre was popular around the time and there are predecessors like Danilevsky. I think the Americans like Lothrop Stoddard made more sense and there's less metaphysical nonsense in their writings.
--- 21929755
>>21929107
Interesting that you can roll the clock back 2000 years and it fits
--- 21930791
>>21929107
Troons are related to feminism, feminism is related to the feeling of maternal care that Spengler says is important to the Faustian soul, everything is related and important.
--- 21930860
>>21918228
John Milios
--- 21930864
>>21918749
>nietzsche made it clear he thought brits were subhumans
Yet another idiotic thought from Herr Nietzsche, not surprising in the slightest.
--- 21931244
>>21902717
nigga you gay
--- 21931249
>>21902612 (OP)
Because they changed the definition of right to be the current liberal democratic malaise hellscape
--- 21931257
>>21902717
--- 21931300
>>21902717
huh, so this drivel clothed in a two-penny imitation of Nietzsches prose is what it takes to farm gushing (You)s on /lit/? Bunch of retards after all. Time to leave this shithole
--- 21931303
His detractors are
>but modern progressive values good!
Why does everything suck then when it conversely was better the less progressive it was? Why are nations with the less "womens' rights" maintaining or increasing fertility rates and not getting slowly replaced unlike those populaces that do have these so called rights that women supposedly deserve. And why is a race dying out not a bad thing? According to progressive values supposedly that's genocide which is a bad thing, genocidal rape is even a distinct war crime running on the same moral arguments.
--- 21931317
>>21931303
>inb4 its voluntary
It's ckearly not voluntary seeing many people wantbto stop this from happening and we still try to preserve endangered species that get assimikated due to too much cross breeding. Also note how supposedly Africans are the genesis of humanity for thoysands of years but they don't seem to have that inbreeding self destruction thing that's mentioned when other races (namely whites) want to preserve their ethnic cohesiveness but not racemixing.
--- 21931321
>>21931300
Based. Let's leave /Lit/ and 4Chan together and watch a heckin wholesome chungus Contrapoints video together. I'm sick of being so radical. Who's with me magapedes!
--- 21931334
>>21931317
*by not racemixing
--- 21931921
>>21902717
Good explanation, now expand on Spengler and write a dugin-esque neutralization of the modern world order. That is the great roadblock: how to neutralize the toxic progress. This is the struggle of our time... Dugin couldn't even do it, he only provided context...
--- 21932056
>>21931921
There will be no struggle, only a split: Those who will step into the unknown dark of transhumanism, and the left-behinds who will cling to romantic notions of human essentialism and continue to go in the circles of ordinary history. Those two species will simply live apart.
--- 21932441
>>21923192
I don't care that much about Neet, I just vehemently hate and want to exterminate retarded marxtranny faggots like you for many reasons, on of them being this absolutely disingenous 'interpolations' marxtrannies always do, like taking Neet obvious distaste for anglodytes and turning him into a supposed propagandist for tea-sippers. of course a materialist cuck faggot may take the tangential and circumstancial "colonizing niggers may be good" over his more philisophical dislike of limeys
>lospurdo
keeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek, thanks for proving me right, faggot. kindly kill yourself now
--- 21932454
>>21907072
I suspect he focused on culture because he believes more or or less all of the potential for the civilization is already contained within the culture.
--- 21932461
>>21931921
The modern era has a lot in common with the era of Qin dominance in the Warring States. Their first emperor notoriously sought immortality and the Qin state was cold, atheistic, anti-traditional until the peasant-lawman Liu Bang ended it.
--- 21932930
>>21905870
>still conservatives in some disciplines like law
You have no idea how bad it is, everyone is a midwit managerial lackey who gobble up whatever the powers that be serve them
>t. lawfag
--- 21932980
>>21929116
>Steve Bannon and the Russian government
You've been brainwashed by the American media. Your enemies are theirs.
--- 21932987
>>21929116
The russian government literally arrests people for "antisemitism" lmao. I dont think you know what you're talking about
--- 21933002
>>21932056
>Those two species will simply live apart.
The progressives have never left their counterparts alone. Their end goal is a one world government, how can that be achieved while respecting the views of their opponents?
--- 21933665
>>21929746
The lack of metaphysical depth is precisely why other writers can't match Spengler's perceptions. Spengler relates a holistic understanding.
--- 21933672
>>21933665
Spengler's metaphysics are more implied than stated. You have to basically create your own system which could slot into his because he doesnt actually explain its foundation.
--- 21934007
>>21902612 (OP)
Which publisher is the best version?
--- 21934053
>>21902717
All of the people shitting on your post are butthurt libtards upset that you're smarter than they are.
--- 21934404
>>21928620
>>21928770
There's nothing wrong with an idea being unoriginal. Intellectual stimulation and challenge is not the only point of intellectual discussion: the pursuit of truth and gaining meaningful, working tools to navigate the world are much more important in comparison.
And even the "you guys all say this" isn't the critique you think it is.
The reason certain ideas and opinion proliferate so easily here is because they survived the free intellectual challenge that isn't allowed in most other places, where having certain opinions gets you banned from the platform, or in certain occasions can even lead you to lose your economic subsistance or get incarcerated or even become victim of personal violence for you or your family.
The propaganda anons speak of is top-down and state and suvrastate enforced and protected.
Also, I'd like to remind you that racism outside /b/ is a bannable offense, yet it spread so effortly even in blue boards, out of pure virtue of the arguments used to support adjacent ideas and the empirical evidences used to support them that anyone can freely examine for themselves.

Finally, I'll add that your type of retoric mostly reveals a intrinsecally anxious, weak, grasping nature that makes you look very aggressive and low in self confidence at once. No wonder the instinctual reaction is to not trust you and steer away from what you say and believe in
--- 21934424
>>21912928
It's been years since I saw a smart Marxist post online, this might be worth interacting with and arguing with later
--- 21934480
>>21928620
All these things are in the context of Spengler, nonreader. The idea of Faustian man is a Spenglerian invention. Nihilism in connection with the domination of money is a Spenglerian analysis.
--- 21934523
>>21934424
>smart Marxist
>historically illiterate "wall street funded the Reich" nonsense
There's an essay on this myth in Henry Turner's "Nazism and the Third Reich"
--- 21934545
>>21934404
Anon. they're just proving >>21902717 anon's point by deriding him as "unoriginal". They're fundamentally trapped in a linear and progressive sense of "time", so everything needs to be NEW FLASHY GLAM instead of actually useful, and truthful. It's typical bugman mentality which has never truly tried to glimpse at the Eternal, because if so they would be destroyed.
--- 21934555
>>21912928
>he was germcuck with British cum in his brain like Nietzsche
Have you read Spengler? He was very much against England.
--- 21934557
>>21913460
No, they're very much opposites.
--- 21934597
>>21934545
>NEW FLASHY GLAM
try not to have an emotional reaction and scream libtard: how about abolition of slavery, or of public torture&executions, or constant wars of conquest because the strong shall do as they will; or the creation if institutions where weaklings without connections/capital like Spengler or Nietzsche could be paid to be teachers or publicists, instead of tilling the soil for a local lord? 
Really, all meaningless bugman nonsense? Serious question
--- 21934606
>>21934597
>slavery
>public torture/execution
>constant wars of conquest
>creation of institutions for weaklings

literally all of those exist today under the liberal paradigm, but i'll invite you to play dumb and make a fool of yourself.
--- 21934609
>>21934606
oh ok you can't even properly read, nevermind then
--- 21934614
>>21934609
Yes, run along.
--- 21934712
>>21934597
>how about abolition of slavery
technically happened in western europe since even before the fall of the roman empire under autoritctarian dictatorships
>or of public torture&executions
We still do them. We executed members of the Nazi Party and Saddam Hussein in public, and both were extensively and gruelysomely tortured beforehand, too.
>or constant wars of conquest because the strong shall do as they will; 
war casualities per capita progressively increased. We have a war going on in the european continent at the moment decided by two strong suporpowers in which Europe is paying a hefty price with nothing in return and if you ever saw the videos, people in Ukraine and russian soldiers are subiecting each others to amounts of violence and pain that disturbs the mind and that was actively discouraged by both military officers and religious institutions at the time with practical results. we have statistics and reports on deaths, executions, even ransoms in european wars during the middle ages and the amount of raw suffering was incredibly inferior.
And no, everyone was ransomed, not just nobles. Nobles actually had a way higher chance to be executed than commoners. See for example Corradino of Svevia and what happened to him.
>r the creation if institutions where weaklings without connections/capital like Spengler or Nietzsche could be paid to be teachers or publicists, 
If we take into consideration european societies for the whole course of their histories, even during the paleolithic and the neolithic, let alone the middle ages, there was a place for the intellectual types. Shaman, healers, doctors, monks. Even during the heights of authoritarism in the Roman empire you could make an hefty sum by being a private tutor. That's assuming the intellectual or intelligent type wouldn't be drawn out to other professions (for example, how Nietzsche always showed a desire to be a soldier). Your vision of history is romanticized and idealistic
--- 21934716
>>21934523
That's a smart marxist for you, he at least had the intellectual honesty and courage to interact with Spengler's work. You don't want to see how a dumb marxist thinks and talks, then
--- 21934791
>>21912928
>That what the 3rd reich was in the end, a berserker state funded by wallstreet to end revolutionary socialism
I'm not even a commie and that line hits hard
--- 21934963
My biggest problem with Spengler is that his cultural pessimism is simply too crushing. In his worldview, there are only a few things worth dedicating your life to now and if one accepts it, it can be difficult for them psychologically.
--- 21934969
>>21934963
I think it can also add to depression and procrastination. I can imagine, for example, of a young and talented, but frustrated artist, who foregoes really pursuing painting because they read Spengler, were convinced that art is dead, and are afraid to spend their lives pursuing something that’s dead. So they don’t, and they spend years, maybe their whole lives not painting.
--- 21934976
>>21934716
Oh how droll, as if the right ever gives a fair reading and critique of leftist thinkers and doesn't resort to lies, racial slurs, and schizophrenic conspiracy.
--- 21935909
>>21902612 (OP)
OP here, wrong pic sorry
--- 21936040
>>21934712
>technically happened in western europe
Source? Never heard of slavery being abolished in the roman empire. Later it was abolished among European Christians, and pretty much remained so. Then this Christian idea expanded to an universal human right. Today there might be slavery-adjacent practices in shithole countries, but the concept is universally reviled and even the most anti-western nations would hide and deny such practices. This in itself is progress.

>We still do them
Two examples separated by more than half a century. And how exactly were Nazis "gruesomely tortured"? 
Torture in the wake of the Iraq war was met with enormous public outrage. Back in the good old days it was a common occurence, and source of free entertainment. 

>We have a war going on
Again, something that would be viewed as a normal spat among kings in the past now causes outrage throughout the world, and enormous assistance to the victim. Russia btw is a great example of resisting social progress no matter what, and turning into an Orwellian caricature because of it.

>there was a place for the intellectual types
Sure, for the tiny percentage that could somehow uncover their intellectual talents without universal schooling, wide availability of knowledge, the healthcare to survive the first years of life, the production capacities to enable this luxurious division of labor where one can spend a lifetime researching mongolian basketweaving and be quite well-off...

Sure, my vision of history is idealistic in Hegels sense, all experience supports it much better than the Spenglerian morphology. The latter is much more "romantic", as evidenced by all the anons feeling sweet melancholy about it
--- 21936540
>>21936040
>the concept is universally reviled 
It's been turned into (barely) subsistence wages and brutal conditions used to mine the materials and manufacture the device you're using to post.
>Torture in the wake of the Iraq war was met with enormous public outrage.
Three words: "enhanced interogation techniques."
>enormous assistance to the victim
When it's in the West's interests. I'll bet you weren't even aware that Sudan is about to tip into a civil war.
>Russia btw is a great example of resisting social progress no matter what
Sounds like you're spitting propaganda. Is Iran a bastion of social progress because they lead the world in transgender surgeries?
>for the tiny percentage that could somehow uncover their intellectual talents without universal schooling
The university system was developing and it's unfair to look upon it with modern biases. Besides, modern education has been commodified to the point where call centre jobs require a diploma and the democratization of universities has lead to a decrease in quality. 

NTA btw.
--- 21938060
>>21929107
>2000-2400 is the collapse
Man I can't even imagine the status quo making it to 2050 at this rate. An empire of weakness and gat sex and lies, run by psychopathic talmudic bankers, cowardly criminal bureaucrats, spiteful communist mutants, and out-of-touch celebrities, trying to coerce a zero-trust non-society of demoralized, dumbed down, divided, dysgenic, demotivated mass of people from completely incompatible cultural and genetic backgrounds into helping them accomplish vague goals nobody is interested in with insultingly bad propaganda. How can this judeo-satanic landfill planet keep chugging for that long?
--- 21938470
>>21931300
Yes, I hear there are websites with downvoting and upvoting which are more your speed. Thanks for visiting /lit/, I look forward to you never returning.
--- 21938487
>>21938060
Forms of an era come, which then create conflict and trouble which cause new forms to rise. Puritanism is a reaction to Gothic Catholicism, which itself collected excesses and trouble at it's edges.
What we can expect is that the current order, which is very troubled, will produce an equally intense reaction. How it will look like, we don't know. Generally, this is how history moves in the Spengerian sense. The elites have already seeded their own destruction, to be replaced by a new or transformed elite. Society will dissolve, and then reform.
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>>21912928
WTF so the Soviets were the good guys?
--- 21938519
>>21902612 (OP)
>>Got almost everything right
>Most influential thinker of the 1920s
>Is completely forgotten outside some far right circles

He has replied only for his time, because everything is not ethics, have this fate, only ethics is in relation to time.
--- 21938938
Who is our Confucius/Zeno?
--- 21938949
>>21902717
This. Not only that, but Spengler's cyclical law of nature directly contradicts Jewish divine law, the source of Jewish power and influence. Once you accept that nature defines the laws of nature and reality and not some canaanite bronze age god, then the Jews are totally naked
--- 21938950
>>21938487
Shut the fuck up retard.
--- 21938965
>>21934969
Artist here, you don't have to read Spengler to realise art IS dead, and has been since even before WW2.
Any artist that doesn't root for an accelerationist/futurist collapse is either in denial or a genuine retard
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>>21938965
That’s true but that can be devastating for a 20-something looking for something to do with lives. I actually had wanted to be an illustrator until was 24, was frustrated with it, and then I read Spengler, got depressed, totally gave up. I’m now 30 and really haven’t found much else. In retrospect, the optimal outcome would’ve been immediately switching to something else but the second most optimal would’ve been accelerating into it anyway and just using art to cope.
--- 21939113
>>21938965
>art IS dead
>Artist here
>Any artist that doesn't root for an accelerationist/futurist collapse is either in denial or a genuine retard
You have called yourself a retard.
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>>21938949
Spengler was an unironical incel and loser btw. No wonder he attracts his own type to this day. If any of you happen to read german, give pic related a try. Most pathetic whining I've ever read in printed form. Sad, really. And very reminiscent of the private venting of, for instance, Hitler and Goebbels, who cried about their respective arts being "dead" while Picasso and Hemingway were working. 
The talentless rabble of today will probably be responsible for the next fascist chimpout, but what gives, those are the cytokine storms of history. Quite comfy observing it from Hegelian heights.
--- 21939325
>>21902612 (OP)
Cormac McCarthy hasn't forgotten him
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>>21939190
Hegel is wind and the product of living a sheltered existence his whole life with noone who wasn't brownnosing him. Also, Adorno did the same exact thing but was more insecure about it. History is not progressing.
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>>21902717
--- 21939375
>>21939325
I wonder how many people have actually read that Blood and Time epigraph
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16gud4fPsQJWkMD_JFKhya07OdEUTeSKb/view
--- 21939381
>>21902612 (OP)
Because the Left is afraid
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>>21939342
>living a sheltered existence
You must mean not being a resentful loser and succeeding in his efforts. As a fan of Spengler you probably prefer Schopenhauer, his great philosophical idol besides Nietzsche and indeed a very similar type, edgy doomer with an eternal chip on his shoulder, foaming and seething about everything Hegel said or did.
--- 21939447
>>21905870
They teach classics!
--- 21939451
>>21907146
>>21907236

Faustus is the OG, read Christopher Marlowe.

A Faustian pact is one with the devil, and can be for anything, except the signant forfeits their soul to Dis.
--- 21940166
>>21939190
>Jews criticized philosophically
>Suddenly (((someone))) starts calling others incels
Cohencidence
--- 21940265
>>21938965

Hegel actually said that art ended with German romanticism, way before Spengler. 

>>21939342

Hegel is the white pill/clear pill of western philosophy, without him as an anchor you are lost in a sea of conflicting shouting sophistic opinions. We need more Hegel today, and less irrationalist philosophies that accept the present as a given.
--- 21941181
>>21903706
You are a footnote to my cock on your face, faggot.
--- 21941185
>>21904260
Are you a tranny?
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>>21907268
"Optimism is cowardice" - Oswald Spengler
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>>21932461
It outlasted him by like two years. Who is the creator of the modern state and when does he die so it can be replaced by the han bingbong dynasty.
--- 21941269
>>21938950
Back to leftypol, tranny.
--- 21941606
>>21902717
i have witnessed an instant classic