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----- |
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--- 21917939 |
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where you at? |
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finish the pentatuch yet? |
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--- 21917975 |
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I'm falling behind. Just finishing up Exodus |
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--- 21917979 |
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I started reading four verses a day last year, starting in Genesis, and I'm currently in Ezekiel. |
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--- 21918360 |
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>And the children of Israel did evil again in the sight of the LORD |
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--- 21918383 |
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>>21918360 |
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Moses is on Sinai for like one day before they start worshiping a cow. Why are they so bad at following him |
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--- 21918387 |
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>>21918383 |
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wasn't it officially 40? |
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--- 21918458 |
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>>21918402 |
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chronicles doesn't really count |
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--- 21918474 |
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>>21918360 |
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>>21918383 |
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What kills me is how unnatural the story is. I’m not just talking about the supernatural elements, but how unrealistic all the reactions are. I’m suppose to believe that pharaoh and the Israelites saw all these alleged miracles and simply brushed them off as insignificant? The average schizophrenic is completely convinced of their delusions by simply hearing false voices. |
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--- 21918497 |
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>>21918474 |
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you missed the part where egypt had their own magicians |
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--- 21918518 |
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>>21918458 |
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what do you mean by this? I'm about to get to chronicles, is it gonna be the same stuff that was in Kings or something? |
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--- 21918522 |
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>>21918518 |
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it's recap + genealogy basically |
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--- 21918622 |
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>>21918497 |
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No I didn’t. Also, the nature of weak men is to submit to the higher powers. Pharaoh would have been astonished and moved at the power the LORD possessed, but he acts as if nothing out of the ordinary is happening, even in the context of magicians in Egypt. These characters aren’t believable in the slightest |
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--- 21918625 |
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>>21918622 |
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you missed the part where god hardened his heart |
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--- 21918668 |
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>>21918625 |
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No I didn’t. He was a stubborn jackass even before god “hardened his heart” |
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--- 21918702 |
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How to avoid passive reading when you aren't a Christian/Jew? |
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I've only managed to read Genesis |
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--- 21918730 |
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>>21917939 (OP) |
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Got bogged down on the laws and I'm never returning fuck no. |
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--- 21918736 |
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>>21918730 |
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I don't care how God likes his holy apple juice to be prepared. |
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--- 21918783 |
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>>21918773 |
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Instead of teaching the Israelites medicine, advanced engineering, proper sanitation, etc, he teaches them how to bbq and make stupid buildings. |
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--- 21918791 |
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>>21918783 |
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With the frequency they commit evil in the Lord's eyes they are lucky they got taught jack. |
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--- 21919792 |
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>>21918518 |
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It literally says a lot of times in kings that you've details about X in chronicles |
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--- 21919798 |
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>>21918474 |
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Most people never go against their habits. I'd say it's spot on even though it's also quite repetetive |
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--- 21919804 |
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>>21917939 (OP) |
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Do you guys self-insert as the LORD when reading? |
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--- 21920038 |
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>>21919792 |
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right, I guess I assumed they meant they would get into new stuff from these same people's lives. maybe i'll skip it and come back to it at the end |
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--- 21920812 |
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>>21918773 |
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I like mythology and geneañlogy. I do not need to know how god wants his chair to be made. technically I got through that section but it sapped my will and I didn't get through the part about the laws. I did reach the scene of the golden calf so it isn't all bad. |
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--- 21921243 |
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>When the sun had set and it was dark, there appeared a smoking firepot and a flaming torch passing between the animals' pieces.* |
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>*: Yeah I have no clue what the fuck is going on here. |
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--- 21921606 |
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You would think a book that's discussed every day here, a book that regularly makes top ten during the annual vote here, would generate more discussion. |
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--- 21922364 |
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>>21921606 |
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Genesis is pretty free of the usual christlarping and requires a bit of commentary to point out how much is going on. It also has 3 books of pure filter. It filters a lot of anons. And no one has come out with some effortposting and led the discussion. |
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--- 21922760 |
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>>21922364 |
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>And no one has come out with some effortposting and led the discussion. |
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Discussion Topic: |
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|
|
In a Battle Royale between all human characters in Genesis, given each is provided with their own weapon of choice, who would be the victor? |
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Note: Cain is pre curse |
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--- 21922827 |
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Can you guys hurry up and get to the best book already? (Isaiah) |
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--- 21923337 |
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Thank you to the anons who shilled his commentary. It's been incredibly insightful getting a glimpse of the textual devices at play. I was also surprised but how many of the verses were copied improperly or simply can't be translated because the meaning of the Hebrew is lost |
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--- 21923340 |
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>>21923337 |
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the fella in question |
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--- 21923678 |
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>>21923337 |
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As one of the shills, one criticism I have is that he picks idiosyncratic senses of words to make certain passages feel unfamiliar and extend their meaning, but also pulls straight from the KJV text and marginalia. DBH's New Testament was translated to be consistently unfamiliar, for comparison. I don't think it detracts from the translation and much of his interpretation is mainstream Jewish exegesis straight from Rashi, but it's noticeable when he's trying to diverge and when the KJV had it right. I do like what it does for the poetry. Someone who name drops Gerard Manley Hopkins is alright in my book. |
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|
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I think in addition to pointing out where the text is vague and the transcriptions are poor or contentious, his translation philosophy is outside the norm. On the one hand you have committees trying to "accurately" translate an Inspired work, on the other you have scholars approaching it as a redacted anthology. Alter assumes that it is a literary work that is intentionally vague and ambiguous for effect tries to retain that. He's familiar with it as a rhetorical work steeped in centuries of appended commentary that suggest interpretations for the reader to chew on. |
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|
|
As I was reading it, I noticed more clearly all the devices you find in oral storytelling the world over. The repetition, asides, different cadences and pauses that define a pace. That's what I think most modern translations are missing. |
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--- 21923682 |
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>>21923337 |
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>or simply can't be translated because the meaning of the Hebrew is lost |
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is this really that common? |
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--- 21923730 |
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>>21923682 |
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Let's say you have a word, QDSh, that can be read as qadosh, qadash, qedesh and qodash. Qodash is really obscure and used once in another text in a context that isn't very clear either. Or, someone copied QRSh as QDSh because D and R look similar. Or you have a string of jewrunes in a phrase that could be a Name, Place or mean "spread camel dung" depending on how you break it up into individual words, while all of the above also apply. |
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|
|
The only two mentions of halitsah are judges 14.19 and 2 samuel 2.21. Only two translations I'm aware of identify it as armor. Samson killed 30 armed men and took their armor. The poetry of Job and some of the prophets is also laden with difficult language and crux words that aren't used anywhere else. It's pretty common but most translations are literally and figuratively glossed over or copy what an earlier translation used. |
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--- 21924464 |
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>>21922760 |
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That's not an effortpost. Make 3 long posts about how genesis heralds the ideals and failings David represents and how the books before Samuel set up the world and people he will lead. |
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--- 21925056 |
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>>21922760 |
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For me it's Nimrod |
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--- 21925070 |
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>>21923682 |
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Semites didn't use written vowels |
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--- 21925071 |
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I had no idea what Passover actually was until reading Exodus a few days ago. Isn't that a pretty evil, pernicious thing to celebrate? |
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And what is God's problem with yeast? |
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--- 21925135 |
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>>21925071 |
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Quickbread is quick and yeast can get you drunk. |
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--- 21925578 |
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>>21925071 |
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No, celebrating the liberation of your people is not evil, nor is it pernicious. |
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>And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the Lord brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten. |
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--- 21926338 |
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bump |
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--- 21926527 |
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Pouring one out for Nadab and Abihu; the absolute morons. |
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--- 21926916 |
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>>21926527 |
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pour out a whole bottle for jephtah's stupid ass |
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--- 21927575 |
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>don't be mean to foreigners or immigrants, you were migrants too |
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>go into these places and impose your beliefs and principles on the native people |
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Interesting. |
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--- 21927962 |
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>>21927575 |
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>revealing the truth of the world to foreigners and immigrants is being mean |
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lol. lmao even. |
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--- 21928135 |
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Better to let them keep worshiping demons |
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--- 21928481 |
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>>21928135 |
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how do infants worship demons exactly |
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--- 21928766 |
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>>21918474 |
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ever had someone do something nice for you or save you from a dire situation? |
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you won't hold to the gratitude for long. same as the Israelites. they're often reprimanded for that short memory. |
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--- 21929521 |
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>>21918474 |
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It does mention that God makes Pharaoh's heart 'heavy', which is to say that God purposefully inflicts him with stubbornness. He does this in order to be able to show off the various plagues and therefore exhibit his omnipotence, which wouldn't have seemed as impressive if Pharoah had given in as soon as he saw frogs in his bed. |
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It's a fairly sadistic thing for God to do, to draw out the anguish of the Egyptian people by making their leader oblivious to what's occurring around him. |
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--- 21929554 |
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>>21927575 |
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Taking in guests doesn't mean allowing squatters |
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--- 21929571 |
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>be lefthanded |
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>nobody suspects you're carrying a weapon to the foreigner fat fuck king since it's on your right thigh and not the left |
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>tell everyone you want the king to go to his bathroom to "discuss" |
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>everyone leaves |
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>you rip the shit out of his intestines, dirtying your sword, and then lock the door behind you |
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>you run and gather an army and the leaderless foreigners are defeated |
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>rule israel and do fuck all for 40 years |
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>die |
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>cycle repeats |
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--- 21929583 |
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>>21922760 |
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Esau, he was stronger than Jacob, who went toe to toe with an angel |
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--- 21929613 |
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>For the Lord thy God blesseth thee, as he promised thee: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, but thou shalt not borrow; and thou shalt reign over many nations, but they shall not reign over thee. |
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goyimcels seething |
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--- 21929909 |
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bump |
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--- 21929978 |
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>>21919804 |
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I self-insert as the lady who wanted to let the child be split in half with a knife by King Solomon. |
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--- 21929983 |
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>read genesis |
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>skip to the gospels |
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>instantly minimize pharisaic taint with one simple trick |
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can anyone offer a convincing reason not to do this because i’m honestly struggling to come up with my own |
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--- 21930086 |
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>>21917939 (OP) |
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>finish the pentatuch yet? |
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Lol to understand it you need to read what it was based upon, the Greeks... |
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--- 21930362 |
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>>21929521 |
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if you'd actually read exodus you would mention that pharaoh hardens his heart fo every time god does so and did so first. |
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--- 21930414 |
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Are there dates that can be put to some of these events and people? |
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--- 21930597 |
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Hold up. Is this Jehoshaphat where the phrase "jumpin' jehoshaphat" comes from? |
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--- 21931067 |
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>Solomon is the wisest man to ever live |
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>rejects the Lord and turns to pagan gods because of hot foreign pussy |
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Well alright then. |
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--- 21931082 |
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>>21929521 |
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>but it‘s okay because they‘re gentiles |
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--- 21931097 |
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>>21930414 |
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From David onward, yes. Some stories don't match up with dates and other later prophets use language that dates them pretty accurately. |
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|
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>>21930597 |
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>Nimrod |
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>philistine |
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>Old as Methuselah |
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Wait until you realize how many turns of phrase and stylistic flourishes are Hebrew filtered through early modern English. |
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--- 21931909 |
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>>21917939 (OP) |
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bump |
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--- 21933029 |
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>>21917939 (OP) |
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Bump |
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--- 21933057 |
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>>21931067 |
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Important thing to realize memeing aside. No amount of intelligence will let you escape your worldly passions if you don't keep constant awareness of how and why you're thinking. |
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--- 21933149 |
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>>21933057 |
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Important thing is exotic pussy be mad good |
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--- 21934160 |
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>>21931097 |
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>language that dates them pretty accurately. |
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Do any stories ever reach contemporaries of Alexander the Great? |
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--- 21934200 |
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What's up with Samson and Delilah? Why did he tell her the source of his strength when she had proven to be a Phillistine agent? |
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--- 21934233 |
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Why did Uzza get smited for touching the ark? |
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--- 21934514 |
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>>21934160 |
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In terms of history there is a gap between Nehemiah (450BC) and the Maccabees (170BC). |
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--- 21934529 |
|
We finally have the first mention of Satan in the Bible. At least in this KJV. |
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Chronicles |
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>21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. |
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21:2 And David said to Joab and to the rulers of the people, Go, number Israel from Beersheba even to Dan; and bring the number of them to me, that I may know it. |
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>21:3 And Joab answered, The LORD make his people an hundred times so many more as they be: but, my lord the king, are they not all my lord's servants? why then doth my lord require this thing |
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|
|
So what exactly was Satan doing to make God made with numbering? |
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--- 21934531 |
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>>21934529 |
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*make God mad |
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--- 21935833 |
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>>21934200 |
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Samson is brute force that is tamed by marriage or his spouses I can't remember. He is the Enkidu of the Bible. He tells his first spouse the solution of his riddle and Delilah the secret of his strength because both of them can't keep their mouth shout. Women are a beast of burden. What you have also to consider is that Samson as Nazirite has to follow some very strict rules like don't cut you hair but he violates them like when he touched the dead lion as he isn't supposed to touch dead objects. Finally, his last act is that he kills the elite of his enemy more or less fulfilling the will of God. |
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>>21934529 |
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You have this passage twice first in samuel then in chronicles. In samuel it says that God made David do it and in chronicles it was changed to Satan. What's strange about it is that they have counted soldiers all the time starting with Moses. |
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--- 21935944 |
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>>21935833 |
|
There's a subtext that if he hadn't acted in an unclean way, the story may have taken a different turn. He eats honey out of a lion, grabs a moist jawbone. I smell some light Deuteronomist intervention in parts of Judges. |
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|
|
I also think the Adversary is a very complex figure to parse through, what with how little mention he has in earlier books. |
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--- 21935976 |
|
Where's a good epub of the kjv bible Preferably with apocrypha but I'm cool without for sake of readability. |
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--- 21937040 |
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>>21935976 |
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https://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=EE7DCCC60A0078256D762362F3AD097B |
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--- 21937100 |
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>>21935944 |
|
he's a weird one, yeah. i know the consensus among scholars is he's supposed to be effectively god's prosecutor, but i don't think this |
|
sounds at all like a conversation between a superior and a subordinate: |
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|
|
>One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them. The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?” |
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>Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.” |
|
the satan here sounds more like a free agent who occasionally appears in the heavenly domain for his own amusement. |
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--- 21937147 |
|
Deuteronomy was beautiful. The certainty of victory and blessing if you will but obey the law is inspiring. |
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--- 21937448 |
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>>21934529 |
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>first time Satan appears is to convince someone to make a census |
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What is the significance of this? |
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Did Adam go around doing a census of animals and maybe doing a census of men is bad? |
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--- 21937558 |
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>>21937040 |
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Forgot to thank you |
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--- 21937644 |
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>>21937448 |
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it was just a superstition dude. censuses were typically done before war. people die in war. they act like the census was responsible. |
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--- 21938660 |
|
bump de |
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--- 21939488 |
|
Just finished Samuel, where's everybody at? |
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--- 21939528 |
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>>21918383 |
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The Jews are genetically predisposed to worshipping golden cows. See 1 Kings 12. Either that or cults in the Northern Kingdom were worshipping calf idols and the writers of Exodus put that in there for polemical purposes. |
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--- 21940259 |
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>>21923730 |
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>>21923678 |
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>God's Word is vulnerable to human ineptitude. |
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Not how that works, concern-troll |
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You're applying the vulnerabilities of secular literature to God's Literature. |
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--- 21940291 |
|
>>21927575 |
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>letting gentiles wallow in ignorance is being nice to them |
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you need to examine your reaction to the Bible |
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(it's the Word of God) |
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>>21931082 |
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>only gentiles experience God's wrath (discipline) |
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>>21929613 |
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>if you don't obey My commands you will become borrowers of many nations and lenders of none, you will be the tail not the head, I will destroy you. |
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>>21930086 |
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>uses bce instead of the correct BC |
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stopped reading ther |
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hist: if you want your criticism to be engaged with at least pretend to not be a rebel against God. |
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--- 21941770 |
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>>21939528 |
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>he doesn't remember that part of the odyssee where the crew got fucked after they slaughtered the sacred cows even though they were almost home |
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--- 21941774 |
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>>21941770 |
|
or the part where they opened a giant wind bag minutes within reaching home out of curiousity, ruining their plans |
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--- 21942900 |
|
bump |
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--- 21943368 |
|
>>21917939 (OP) |
|
How to do a /lit/ reads the bible series and not fail next time: |
|
>break the readings into smaller segments (you can find dozens of guides along the line of "read the bible in a year" and amend them accordingly) |
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>whoever is running it should do a summary post for new segments (i.e. highlight key verses/themes, include background for material) |
|
>it's ok to spend more time on more popular books (e.g. Job); page length alone shouldn't determine reading segments |
|
>in the prep threads leading up to the start you can include supplementary material (my rec would be pic-related because it highlights the Bible's importance to Western Literature and provides general insights that relate to all literature as well as an interesting rubric to draw upon when reading the Bible) |
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--- 21944743 |
|
I'm at 1 Samuel 8 RN |
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--- 21945654 |
|
bump |
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--- 21945703 |
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>>21917939 (OP) |
|
Amos is my fav book |
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--- 21946088 |
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>>21943368 |
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Why don't you do it yourself take this anon as reference point >>21944743 |
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--- 21947108 |
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bump |
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--- 21947149 |
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>>21946088 |
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Constructive criticism, anon. Next time you try you'll attract repeat posters that generate discussion and a lot less: |
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>>21926338 |
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>>21929909 |
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>>21931909 |
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>>21933029 |
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>>21938660 |
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>>21942900 |
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>>21945654 |
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>>21947108 |
|
in a thread that's been up for over a week. It's sad. I want to see it succeed in the future. |
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--- 21947166 |
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>>21947149 |
|
How about 2 monthes with the NT, the weekly passages will be short enough to be analyzed more in depth instead of getting the entire history of Israel in 13 days |
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--- 21947509 |
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>>21947149 |
|
i only bumped after my attempts at sparking discussion fell through dick |
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--- 21947528 |
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>>21947509 |
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Same but without bumping. I tried to spark and ask hot questions but they were too hot and heavy. |
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--- 21947555 |
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>>21929571 |
|
nice but my favorite is based retard Jephthah |
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>conquer your enemies in the name of YHWH |
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>dedicate the first thing that comes running out of your house to him |
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>live alone with your wife and daughter |
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>get home |
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>daughter runs out to celebrate you |
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>:O |
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--- 21947840 |
|
>>21947166 |
|
That would probably work better and maybe you could try OT again as a prequel series if it works out. You have to play by ear to see what aspects of the book people are interested in though. |
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|
|
You could maybe salvage this read through by changing the schedule to be more specific (i.e. instead of setting out that the wisdom books will be read over two weeks specifically set aside a set of days to highlight Job, it's well known and people can wander into the threads, and Ecclesiastes). You probably don't have to be as granular as setting a verse based schedule for Job but specifically highlighting these books within a window of time should generate more discussion. Otherwise, you're hoping a random post will set a spark and that's still not playing to the odds in something as chaotic as a forum discussion (even on a slow board). |
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--- 21947872 |
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>>21947509 |
|
Don't be so salty and work on figuring out ways to generate discussion. The Bible isn't as easy a target for a group read as a novel. It's a complicated/diverse set of books that have complex relationships with one another--there's a significant amount of background understanding you have to have if you're attempting to tackle The Bible as a whole. Making the reading schedule more specific and highlighting specific books is likely the best format to get it off the ground. |
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--- 21948618 |
|
>>21947528 |
|
Yeah. I thought the first appearance of Satan would spark more discussion. |
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--- 21949047 |
|
This has been nagging at me. Is the whole altar and offering up a sacrifice to God of cow or lamb and burning the offering just a grill and a ritual for cooking meat so they don't eat it raw and the visual of the raw meat turning into cooked meat the idea of God accepting and blessing the sacrifice? Is the whole idea across all cultures of an altar, an offering and burning a sacrifice just old grilling and bbq made so people don't get sick from raw meat? |
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--- 21949209 |
|
>>21947840 |
|
I think it failed because you asked people to basically dedicate all their reading time to this, when most people don't want to give up their entire catalogue for a 2 month detour, a 2 month NT is much more realistic |
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--- 21949271 |
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>>21949209 |
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>you |
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I'm not OP. |
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--- 21949920 |
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>>21949047 |
|
Nope. They offer it to God as smoke. Except the blood. Oh and the priests get a cut. They believed God actually resided in the Holy of Holies, and displeasing God could cause him to leave, hence the strictest sacrifices being for a priest making a mistake. |
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--- 21949922 |
|
>>21947840 |
|
Make the readings more specific. The Bible is really dull and theologically irrelevant for long stretches, if you are going to rush through it you might as well just read an abridge version. The most rewarding thing about the old testament is figuring out the cultural, political and theological forces that shaped it and doing that is impossible given the timeframe. |
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--- 21950496 |
|
>>21949922 |
|
>The Bible is really dull and theologically irrelevant for long stretches |
|
A big sign that you've only read the Bible once, if ever. |
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--- 21951226 |
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>>21929571 |
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”The dirt came out” refers to the fat fuck kings bowels leaving his body, sir |
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--- 21951232 |
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>>21933057 |
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Pussy is the ultimate end of every toil on earth. There is literally nothing else beyond it. |
|
--- 21951504 |
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>>21947149 |
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>Constructive criticism, anon. Next time you try you'll attract repeat posters that generate discussion and a lot less: |
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I'm not OP but your post is less worth than a bump. A bump indicates that anons are interested but don't know how to contribute or don't have time for it right now. Your post indicates that you know what to do but you just say fuck you. |
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>>21949047 |
|
If you believe that your god isn't corporeal why would you sacrifice solids to him instead of gases that ascend to another realm and transform the meat to ashes |
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--- 21952531 |
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>>21950496 |
|
Delusional. The bible is tedious, which is why most people need some sort of motivating structure to read it. Even for the self-motivated it is hardly a page turner. Nor is it theologically relevant to the average non-jewish reader, which is why people use commentaries to tell them what to take out of the chapters. Sure if you dig into the context and subtext of the verses you can get something richer out of the bible, but that is the point - the pace prescribed is too fast to appreciate the text. |
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--- 21953495 |
|
what happened to it bros?? |
|
--- 21953498 |
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>>21953495 |
|
this thing i mean. incredible to think they just fucking lost the most important item in the whole religion |
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--- 21953501 |
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>>21919798 |
|
human behavior is quite repetitive |
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--- 21955067 |
|
bump |
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--- 21955348 |
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>>21953501 |
|
That was what I was saying |
|
|
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>>21953498 |
|
The ark is safe now in Africa |
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--- 21956631 |
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>>21955348 |
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Based Ethiopians |
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>>21955348 |
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the Ark of the Covenant is in heaven |
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>>21947555 |
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we need more of this in the next thread... the one that's gonna satisfy everybody here |
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