Tue Apr 18 09:19:00 UTC 2023

lit/21888646.txt

@@ -1211,3 +1211,71 @@ in my classes I'm absolutely killing it with grammar and translation, but my voc
 --- 21923342
 >>21922426
 This is officially known as the Ranieri Grammar method, in case you didn't know.
+--- 21923599
+>>21923327
+Read this
+>>21922323
+
+>>21923342
+It is also known as a complete waste of time. You don't need to study a single second of grammar to acquire a language.
+--- 21923897
+perseus has been fucked up for a couple days. really annoying.
+--- 21923898
+>>21923599
+It certainly isn't going to hurt you to study grammar constructions for 30 minutes after receiving hours upon hours of input. If you literally believe that there is no benefit to seeing how a language functions while also using it then there is nothing to come from arguing with a person such as yourself
+--- 21924158
+>>21923599
+Grammar study can help if it's used as a supplement to comprehensible input and not a replacement for it.
+--- 21924168
+>>21923898
+>>21924158
+>feeding the troll
+--- 21924224
+>>21923898
+>If you literally believe that there is no benefit to seeing how a language functions while also using it then there is nothing to come from arguing with a person such as yourself
+There is a benefit to understand how a language functions, I'm just stating it will not help at all with language acquisition. 
+
+To put it very simply, learning grammar is to language learning what learning automobile engineering is to driving. Learning how a combustion motor works will not help in any way to make you learn how to drive.
+
+What you grammar cucks do and I'm completely against it is using grammar as a placebo you take when you're not willing to accept ambiguity and not understand anything for a while. The problem is that this not only creates a bad habit of using your first language too often, but also you are not using the most powerful learning mechanism which is autonomous discovery. With this you either never become fluent or your take much longer to become fluent with the minimal inpoooting you do.
+>>21924158
+Yes, as a supplement that won't help you acquire the language. If you enjoy lingusticis for it's own sake though it's good to study grammar
+
+>>21924168
+I'm trying to save the retards here countless hours and prevent people from becoming like this anon
+>>21907103
+
+and you call me troll
+--- 21924305
+>>21924224
+Your English is dogshit.
+--- 21924328
+>>21924305
+I don't proofread myfucking shitposts on the internet you moron. I'm a tested C2 level English speaker.
+--- 21924352
+>>21890213
+As I continue to read about NENA, I have found some Jewish Neo-Aramaic that is younger than the Zohar. Take a look at Yona Sabar's Academia page.
+--- 21924434
+How do I get a mesopotamic gf brehs?
+--- 21924564
+>>21921670
+would be useful to also know when did it start having this specific philosophical use, in the more abstract sense of "induce someone to" it's already classical
+--- 21924934
+Would learning modern greek help with Koine? I want to learn both and will probably end up doing Modern first, but does it really make that much of a difference?
+--- 21925049
+>>21924934
+No. Even though Koine is technically simpler than the language used in writing that came before it, it's still way more complex than modern greek.
+--- 21925086
+>>21923138
+haven't explored much of it, it's basically not that important other than to get an initial idea of what you should be hearing in your head
+on the greek wikisource you have for instance many recordings of modern greeks reading even homeric texts with modern pronunciation and completely missing the meter, but what's the point then?
+then you have some genuine attempts at reconstructed pronunciation and reading of texts, but not that many in my limited experience
+overall though most people who study it seem to use the Erasmian pronunciation, which is essentially wholly intelligible with the reconstructed one and viceversa
+https://www.youtube.com/@triodostrivium
+--- 21925708
+>>21925086
+>many recordings of modern greeks reading even homeric texts with modern pronunciation and completely missing the meter
+Greek meter is quantitative. Eeeta is not quantitatively different from ayyy(lmao)ta; both are long. The only reason why they are not reading in meter is because they are ignoring it / don't understand it. It's simple to read in iambic pentameter, but dactylic hexameter is another story. Thus, the Modern Greek on Wikisource neglects the meter. That's probably not the case in a college classroom.
+--- 21926850
+>>21919194
+The Lucian pronunciation.

lit/21895736.txt

@@ -521,3 +521,39 @@ Slow down. Reread a sentence if you had trouble parsing it. It is always worthwh
 >>21895736 (OP)
 
 NGE - the book
+--- 21923732
+>>21923027
+Yeah you can't really read anything he wrote after GR without reading GR first and you should read Tcol49 before that basically V. is optional
+--- 21924468
+>>21895736 (OP)
+Does it make sense that CoL49, and a lot of Pynchon's works in general, remind me of early GTA games?
+--- 21924473
+>>21924468
+In what way? And how early are we talking here, top-down era?
+--- 21924475
+>>21924468
+Listening to Chatterbox?
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lPytfSy-04 [Embed]
+--- 21924585
+>>21924473
+Similar feeling of paranoia and anxiety at a surface level, of the whole world "being organised around you." Being caught in an entangled web of deception and corruption. Hidden abstract patterns. Corporate satire. Macabre creativity. CoL49 is, of course, more meaningful in every sense.
+--- 21924700
+>>21922441
+GR has had fifty years of cult following in exactly the kind of outcast demographics that make up 4chan, not to mention the simultaneous critical acclaim. Plus, AtD was his third/fourth (depends if you count V.) -big- book, that's gonna sap some excitement that might otherwise inspire people to read a new experimental novel, and it's like 40% longer. It's a stylistically easier, but also less thrilling, tome than GR, but it's not all that much less bleak, and the lesser amount of absurdity and psychedelia, not to mention how the WWII setting allows conservatives to pretend Pynchon doesn't hate their views, so when a non-fan, even a highly literate one, comes to AtD, they usually get 500 pages in, don't have familiarity with Pynchon's long-term thematic explorations and intertextual dialect, lose steam, and shelve it for a period TBD. 
+On the other hand, if you read GR, even if you hated it, you get to feel the rush of "I proved my worth, I read the Big Important Postmodern Work, AND IT SUCKED", which is a whole lot more enticing than "I read the least popular book from a guy who has other works held in nigh-universally higher esteem, and I hated it!"
+Then, in fora dedicated to the obsessive fans of Tommy's, the latter dynamics get switched. Everyone's basically said and heard it all before about Gravity's Rainbow, and Against the Day, for all its flaws, is just Pynchon going full-throttle for 1200 pages, getting deep into a less-popularly-discussed area of historical analysis than WWII, writing at least one or two decent women for once, giving the reader his zany math-flavored surreality alongside a helping of actual human condition that isn't concealed in a constellation of information for once, without sacrificing the abstraction or obscurantism that his fans love.
+If you're into music, it's like the Smile fans of the Beach Boys or the Animals fans of Pink Floyd.
+--- 21924829
+>>21924468
+>this damn government is a leviathan
+--- 21924872
+>>21922951
+
+just read the detailed summary of every episode on wiki, then throw away the book
+--- 21925937
+>>21924475
+this brings me back
+--- 21926852
+>>21918906
+This reminds me of the duck in M&D, down to Mondaugen's Law

lit/21902612.txt

@@ -702,3 +702,43 @@ it was a graph of the history of the byzantine empire with the line increasing o
 there would be a large territory loss and the line went down sharply, then a tiny victory, line went up slightly, then a large territory loss, line went down sharply and it just repeated until 1453 when constantinople fell
 
 i just thought that was interesting
+--- 21924721
+>>21923299
+what's interesting about it
+--- 21925342
+>>21912644
+>clearly ideologically biased towards illiberalism
+its not wrong to be biased against a bad thing. ask all the modern liberal institutions and they'll go hard against nationalism, nativism, etc. this is just saying he's wrong because they disagree.
+--- 21925356
+>>21923228
+"Corporate" means corporatist in the Catholic sense, i.e., more like a restoration of guilds, than like capitalist limited liability corps
+--- 21925371
+>>21903140
+>According to Harold Ramis, the name "Egon Spengler" was inspired by Egon Donsbach, a foreign exchange student at his high school, and historian Oswald Spengler
+--- 21925372
+>>21925371
+i dont believe you
+--- 21925435
+>>21922848
+You’re half right. They’re only allergic to it because unipolarity is empire trying desperately not to appear as empire.
+--- 21925442
+>>21918721
+You would still be able to brush your teeth and wipe your ass you know.
+--- 21925449
+>>21920303
+I also think he didn’t adequately address technology. It’s telling that his model is basically perfectly right up until the Atlantics run away with Word War 2 and the Cold War almost purely of superior technology. A British-American Empire doesn’t quite make sense in his model since there’s never been a thallasocracy to evolve into one. Rome, Ottomans, Xin, all land-based war states. I also wondered why every other culture-civilization seemed to be drawn along religious lines except the West. Somehow the borders of a single culture-civilization ended where a single religion ended, except the West which ends right in the middle between Western Gothic Christianity and Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Maybe he worried about a Russian Hyksos when he should’ve been worried about Russian Empire.
+--- 21926080
+>>21912644
+Nigger your culture's deteriorating. Why should I put any effort into it?
+--- 21926120
+german right wing thinker in the early 20th century you say? uh oh scoob, i dont like the sound of that
+--- 21926132
+>>21920946
+>Not even the ancestors of mankind were beasts of prey.
+What the hell does this even mean? Leftists don't live in the real world.
+--- 21927300
+>>21926120
+kek
+--- 21927314
+>>21902612 (OP)
+He was not what the post-'45 liberal hegemony needed. It's like the story of Plotinus who was practically completely forgotten until the late 18th, early 19th century when german idealists rediscovered him as a predecessor of sorts, thinkers are popular because their ideas are popular at a given time and in a particular milieu, not because of their ideas in themselves.

lit/21906095.txt

@@ -530,3 +530,326 @@ However because there’s a clear unstressed “a “drivers in a bar” the nat
 --- 21922360
 >>21908371
 How do I discern between my own thoughts and the working of the Spirit, and what was your metanoia experience like, if you don't mind me asking? Also, do you consider infant baptism legitimate?
+--- 21923966
+>>21922360
+I don’t consider infant baptism legitimate, my metanoia experience occurred when I was very young but let me tell you this, it doesn’t have to be grand and cinematic, let me show you how simple it can be.
+
+Luke 23:39-43
+
+39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
+
+40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
+
+42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.
+
+43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”
+That’s it, that’s all the thief had to do, “we was punished justly” In that moment he accepted the weight of his sin and repented in his heart, “Jesus remember me” that’s his entire sinners prayer, and Jesus accepted it, no Eucharist was needed, no baptism ritual, just that’s simple.
+
+As for how do you know if it’s your own mind or not, the easiest way first is when you ask god a question such as “is this your presence” you will feel a sort of peace arise in you, this is because god is the spirit of peace, and in the beginning of your prayer life you can use this to determine if God wills you to do something, for if God induces that sensation of peace, that’s likely his will, you will notice even very difficult decisions will do this. As you grow in faith and relationship with him you’ll be able to hear and understand him more, fasting also greatly assists with this.
+--- 21924113
+>>21914480
+Good post
+--- 21924399
+>>21923966
+Thank you Frater. You're the reason why I stay on this board.
+--- 21925417
+>>21907821
+>But this gets into Whitman’s mysticism of which gershom Scholem says constitutes a uniquely American full kabbalistic system, but that’s a topic for another time.)
+Could you talk more about this?
+--- 21925845
+>>21923966
+Frater, can you help me with Arnaut Daniel? It might not be in your wheelhouse, but I've read the poem about him gathering up the wind, chasing the hare with the ox, And swimming against the torrent, and I struggle to see why it's seen as exceptional in anyway. What did Dante see?
+--- 21925936
+>>21925417
+>>21925417
+
+earlier in the thread I posted chanting the square Deific, let’s use that as the basis of our analysis. within Kabbalah there is a conception of a fourfold world that derived from the most simple (think the platonic monad) called atziluth, and then descends into the world of forms called briah, which then descends to the mingling ground of the forms, the imagination which is yetzirah, and the final world is our world of perception, malkuth. 
+
+in chanting the square deifiic where he traces the four great American Gods, he is not being simply stating an allegory, but rather if we read his influences and take Whitman’s own writing seriously, he is tracing out his own four fold emanation system.
+
+the God he calls Jehovah being the most material, a sort of Gnostic demiurge, a controlling god, and of this we see the material world, the next zone we see is the beautiful God of love, Christ, who is Hermes who travels and harmonizes, who is hope, now how can we prove that he believes this demiurge derives its root from this god of love?
+
+he says in song of myself V 
+
+“Swiftly arose and spread around me the peace and knowledge that pass all the argument of the earth,
+And I know that the hand of God is the promise of my own,
+And I know that the spirit of God is the brother of my own,
+And that all the men ever born are also my brothers, and the women my sisters and lovers,
+And that a kelson of the creation is love,”
+
+and the important most line is this word “kelson” a kelson is metal used in a wooden ship to act as a kind of essential spine so that the vessel is held together and sturdy, thus we prove Whitman believes this material creation/perception depends upon essential love.
+
+now, we can then reduce this god of love and care as derivative from the next deity of Whitman’s, “Satan” but this satan is not the Christian satan, he’s the American satan of paradise lost, the glyph of undying will, immortal unending passion, we know that Whitman believes the origin of all poetry (and imaginative beauty ) is reminiscence as he says basically as much in out of the cradle endlessly rocking, and what does this satan say ? he is “full of reminiscences, brooding” thus this is the origin, the thinking going continuous will, the essential passion which motivates all thought combinations, we can finally see this deity of Whitman’s derives from the greatest and monadic deity of Whitman.
+
+the Soul, but by soul, he means at once one’s own identity, but also that transcendental ego, that”I” which pervades being, of which all things share, of which all allude to when they say “i” which itself is incapable of dividing, for this is what Whitman says 
+
+Cont
+--- 21925941
+>>21925936
+
+
+“Essence of forms—life of the real identities, permanent, 
+positive, (namely the unseen,)
+Life of the great round world, the sun and stars, and of 
+man—I, the general Soul,”
+
+but here is the dialectic at the heart of Whitman, the relationship between the General soul which is at once God and a pantheist all pervading nature, but is also fully your own personal identity and character, this relationship Whitman frequently romantizes and sexualizes and places middle points that arise on account of their marriage, again such as the persona. 
+
+at once he considers all derivative of the general soul to be real yes, but also, due to being passing derivatives, are illusions, images, for which Whitman writes the poem “eidolons “
+
+Eidolons
+
+I met a seer,
+Passing the hues and objects of the world,
+The fields of art and learning, pleasure, sense,
+To glean eidolons.
+Put in thy chants said he,
+No more the puzzling hour nor day, nor segments, parts, put in,
+Put first before the rest as light for all and entrance-song of all,
+That of eidolons.
+Ever the dim beginning,
+Ever the growth, the rounding of the circle,
+Ever the summit and the merge at last, (to surely start again,)
+Eidolons! eidolons!
+Ever the mutable,
+Ever materials, changing, crumbling, re-cohering,
+Ever the ateliers, the factories divine,
+Issuing eidolons.
+Lo, I or you,
+Or woman, man, or state, known or unknown,
+We seeming solid wealth, strength, beauty build,
+But really build eidolons.
+The ostent evanescent,
+The substance of an artist's mood or savan's studies long,
+Or warrior's, martyr's, hero's toils,
+To fashion his eidolon.
+Of every human life,
+(The units gather'd, posted, not a thought, emotion, deed, left out,)
+The whole or large or small summ'd, added up,
+In its eidolon.
+The old, old urge,
+Based on the ancient pinnacles, lo, newer, higher pinnacles,
+From science and the modern still impell'd,
+The old, old urge, eidolons.
+The present now and here,
+America's busy, teeming, intricate whirl,
+Of aggregate and segregate for only thence releasing,
+To-day's eidolons.
+These with the past,
+Of vanish'd lands, of all the reigns of kings across the sea,
+Old conquerors, old campaigns, old sailors' voyages,
+Joining eidolons.
+Densities, growth, facades,
+Strata of mountains, soils, rocks, giant trees,
+Far-born, far-dying, living long, to leave,
+Eidolons everlasting.
+Exalte, rapt, ecstatic,
+The visible but their womb of birth,
+Of orbic tendencies to shape and shape and shape,
+The mighty earth-eidolon.
+All space, all time,
+(The stars, the terrible perturbations of the suns,
+Swelling, collapsing, ending, serving their longer, shorter use,)
+Fill'd with eidolons only.
+The noiseless myriads,
+
+Cont
+--- 21925946
+>>21925941
+The infinite oceans where the rivers empty,
+The separate countless free identities, like eyesight,
+The true realities, eidolons.
+Not this the world,
+Nor these the universes, they the universes,
+Purport and end, ever the permanent life of life,
+Eidolons, eidolons.
+Beyond thy lectures learn'd professor,
+Beyond thy telescope or spectroscope observer keen, beyond all mathematics,
+Beyond the doctor's surgery, anatomy, beyond the chemist with his chemistry,
+The entities of entities, eidolons.
+Unfix'd yet fix'd,
+Ever shall be, ever have been and are,
+Sweeping the present to the infinite future,
+Eidolons, eidolons, eidolons.
+The prophet and the bard,
+Shall yet maintain themselves, in higher stages yet,
+Shall mediate to the Modern, to Democracy, interpret yet to them,
+God and eidolons.
+And thee my soul,
+Joys, ceaseless exercises, exaltations,
+Thy yearning amply fed at last, prepared to meet,
+Thy mates, eidolons.
+Thy body permanent,
+The body lurking there within thy body,
+The only purport of the form thou art, the real I myself,
+An image, an eidolon.
+Thy very songs not in thy songs,
+No special strains to sing, none for itself,
+But from the whole resulting, rising at last and floating,
+A round full-orb'd eidolon.
+thus anon, without elaborating further just from these poems we see Whitman deriving a whole system of being, a correspondence set, and a method of mysticism and a mystical conception of nature in general. analyze the poems more and you’ll see more clearly his model of nature and its derivation from this all-mystical and all-material self/I. 
+
+>>21925845
+Sure I’ll respond in a little while.
+--- 21925960
+>>21925936
+>>21925941
+>>21925946
+Thank you :)
+--- 21926259
+>>21925845
+Sorry was rather busy, before I explain i need to give some context about troubadours, while in general they were traveling bards/musicians basically, they had competing styles/modes basing out of differing poets.
+
+The most common was Trobar leu, which was a very low complexity, sweet sounding and folk sound, this gained much in popularity and was what you’d expect to hear from them. in this earliest period where this was the only style, you eventually have marcabru pop up whose innovation was to be far more mystical in mind and content instead of just folk songs about love, his style is full of dark sayings, intentionally strange allegory and allusions, this hard to understand style is called “trobar clus” the closed style, here’s a good example.
+
+Hear Marcabru's own melody 
+ And here says he:
+In mercy to each faithful soul,
+The Lord God in eternity 
+Has granted us a washing bowl 
+Like none, save that beyond the sea 
+In Holy Armageddon's Land. 
+I sing of this one close at hand. 
+
+When day begins and when day ends 
+I say it's right to rinse and cleanse. 
+ By common sense 
+Each man can bathe where waters roll, 
+Each must, while hale and hearty still 
+Go to the waters of that bowl 
+And there be truly cured of ill, 
+And if we die before we go 
+We'll not dwell high but burn below. 
+
+But want of faith and wanton greed 
+Keep youth away from friends in need 
+ It's sad indeed 
+That everyone so rares to roll 
+Their dice where Hell's the only prize. 
+Be off then to the cleansing bowl 
+Before you've sealed your mouth and eyes. 
+Nobody gets so fat from pride 
+Satan can't grasp him when he's died. 
+
+For the Lord who knows all that was 
+And all that will exist or does 
+ Has promised us 
+An emperor's crowning aureole. 
+Its beauty will show all we are, 
+For bright above the cleansing bowl 
+It will outshine the morning star 
+If we avenge the way they maim 
+God in Damascus and in Spain. 
+
+In the long bloody line of Cain, 
+First man of wickedness and bane, 
+ Many profane 
+And shirk the Lord their lips extol. 
+His true friends will be recognized. 
+It is the virtue of that bowl 
+That all who go there share in Christ. 
+Lets drive the heathen scum away 
+Who still believe what augurs say. 
+
+While self-indulgent liquor-mouths, 
+Fire-squatting punks, food-glutting louts 
+ 
+Cont
+--- 21926283
+>>21926259
+And slouchabouts 
+Stay wimping in their septic hole, 
+God means to try the sound and bold 
+By cauldron of his cleansing bowl. 
+Others keep watch of the household, 
+Dig gardens with their little knives 
+And I will shame them all their lives. 
+
+In Spain I know Marquis Raimón 
+And Templar Knights of Solomon 
+ Now bear alone
+The cross of pagans' proud control 
+So young men wallow in disgrace. 
+Denouncement from that bloody bowl 
+Pours over every captain's face: 
+Broke failures, gutless with the sword, 
+Who have no love for joy or sport. 
+
+God damn degenerates of France 
+Who shirk the work that God demands. 
+ I know how it stands.
+Antioch! Here Poitou unconsoled 
+And Guyenne mourn the great and bold. 
+God, take into Thy holy Bowl 
+And lay to rest Lord Baldwin's soul 
+And here Poitiers and Niort be safe 
+In that Lord who defied the grave. 
+
+
+So we see in macabru a very very different spirit, but he is one of the oldest troubadours so this style soon gains a good amount of respect, this is where arnaut Daniel comes in, Daniel is heavily influenced by Marcabru and other esoteric troubadour verses and begins writing his own very excellent examples of this, such as love poems where the primary symbol is a finger nail.
+
+But fused to this, arnaut innovates a third style “ Trobar ric” which he often but not always uses with the closed style, this is the “rich” style, and this is the difficulty with why you can’t enjoy him, with the rich style you fill the poem with many many technical difficulties and tools, for example he invented the mathematical sestina. See pic related.
+
+So this style focused on using ornate beautiful language and intense linguistic craftsmanship, and arnaut Daniel did all this while still sounding natural, smooth, musical, in a word elegant, while speaking of very very strange things and being musically coherent. Because of this when he’s being translated his vast skill being displayed is being butchered in English, I recommend reading the English and listening to it being sung in original.
+
+Cont
+--- 21926289
+>>21926283
+
+I have a firm desire, and I enter
+Unbending, driven deeply, hard as nail. 
+What lies! Such gossip has plundered my soul—
+But since I cannot bear this flimsy rod, 
+I’ll play the flute until it cries uncle
+In secret, before her closet-chamber. 
+
+I go softly limp before that chamber
+Where conquering men can never enter; 
+The bedroom guard, both angels and uncles, 
+Dissolve pride—even to the fingernail—
+Of suitors, stiff like boys before the rod. 
+Such fears of not being hers, in my soul! 
+
+At least in bodied flesh, if not in soul, 
+Let her hide me, once, in that chamber! 
+Let wounds the heart embraced not spare the rod! 
+Servant to her secrets, I should enter! 
+Now bind me close to her—as flesh to nail—
+And heed no warnings from friend or uncle. 
+
+Even the sweet daughter of my uncle
+I never loved so well—with all my soul. 
+The quick between her finger and her nail, 
+So would I be, and press into her chamber. 
+And molded to its will, love would enter
+This heart, this soldier with a tender rod. 
+
+Since syrup last flowed from a withered rod, 
+And Adam fathered nephew and uncle, 
+Never has love blossomed so! Now enter
+My heart, and dwell in neither flesh nor soul, 
+But where she lives—in each street, each chamber
+That bears me, Father, to the Sacred Nail. 
+
+At last, veil bloodied by the caulking nail! 
+My heart holds her, as bark to sapling-rod. 
+My dizzying tower’s joy, her chamber
+Where no love for father, friend, or uncle
+Remains—only Heaven’s sweet-doubled soul
+In spooning’s cup, where I slowly enter. 
+
+Arnaut spouts song, of nail crying, “uncle!” 
+By grace of her who claims the rod’s bent soul, 
+To all! Unchamber her praise, and enter!
+
+https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq89YlTESVk [Embed]
+
+
+So the reason Dante is calling arnaut the best, is because of his mastery over natural elegance fused with the ability to be extremely ornate and the ability to be obscure or plain as he desires, all without losing any of these qualities.
+--- 21926309
+https://youtu.be/rKHyaMy2BEM [Embed]
+--- 21926596
+>>21926289
+>>21926283
+>>21926259
+Jesus Christ, Frater. Thanks

lit/21907813.txt

@@ -279,3 +279,33 @@ Going to get to this one soon
 David Hume's History of England
 --- 21922895
 Francis Parkman - one of the greatest Americans let alone historian
+--- 21924293
+>>21907813 (OP)
+Do you want classics, sources or historiography?
+--- 21924496
+>>21922895
+>France and England in North America
+Neat.
+--- 21925012
+Rise And Fall Of The British Empire
+--- 21926830
+>>21924496
+
+Those two books... astounding work right there. What a legend
+--- 21926911
+Livy and Durant are my favorite. I have a soft spot for breadth
+--- 21927187
+>>21926911
+>Durant
+garbage
+--- 21927189
+>>21919312
+Misread that as “Anthony Kiedis”
+--- 21927196
+>>21927187
+Depends on what you’re reading him for (obviously too there are much better options today for Roman history than Livy) but anyone who attempts to synthesize so many facets of history, including art, philosophy, literature, science, politics etc over such a wide geography and period is going to be garbage by specialist standards and he says as much in his introduction. He is a good intro though, and from thenceforth you move to actual specialists.
+--- 21927288
+>>21927196
+If I'm reading eisegetic fictive garbage I'd rather read the Cartoon History of the Universe & Cartoon History of the Modern World.
+
+If I'm reading eisegetic cack I'd rather Hobsbawm shit his multi-volume collection—but I'd rather read _Feudal Society_ or Chris Hill's _Century_ or _The Mediterranean and the Mediterranean World in the Age of Philip II_

lit/21908901.txt

@@ -457,3 +457,315 @@ Based!
 Cancer is called "cancer" because ancient Greeks thought the tumors resembled crabs
 --- 21923122
 Schopenhauer debunked antinatalism. The will is always there. It will always strive.
+--- 21923637
+>>21922201
+Oh my god, the requirement list is hilarious. This man is lolcow material.
+
+Also, he has another autism site dedicated to suffering
+https://reducing-suffering.org/
+--- 21923741
+>>21921416
+More of Mario's views on antinatalism:
+https://vitrifyher.wordpress.com/2019/12/19/antinatalism-in-purgatory/
+
+>I’m an antinatalist. I think it’s unforgivable to bring new people into this world given that there is suffering. The thing is that lately I’ve been thinking and feeling that people aren’t real. This would partially solve the problem of evil. There is just my suffering and everyone else is a simulation designed to spite me. This should cause me to not feel so antinatalist since the breeders are disgusting alien mockeries of a true human being, namely myself. Yet somehow I still feel very antinatalist. When I see children with their parents I am disgusted at the entire concept. They are probably just facets of the simulation and not souls brimming with the inner light of awareness like myself. And yet they still move me enough to cause disgust. I suppose that was the intention of the designer(s), to create something that appeared so real that it was actually disturbing. Dr. Miller says I have some sort of syndrome after finding out about my solipsism. I think he’s an imbecile who deserves to be burned on a stake. But out of my bodhisattva-like compassion I would instead grant him a consciousness and send him to heaven forever.
+
+>Like I’ve said before, it’s plausible to me that this is a punishment. My failure at making friends, then my failure at soccer, then my failure in the stock market, then my failure at university, then my crippling depression. The reason I think it’s a punishment may just be projecting a sense of justice to something that is intrinsically devoid of any anthropomorphic qualities. But it may also be that there really is intelligent design (which I now strongly feel is the case) and the reason this isn’t heaven is because the force behind existence isn’t like me. It’s not the sort of thing that would give heaven to its enemies.
+--- 21923749
+Moral considerations only make sense when talking about people who are born, either actually or hypothetically. The unborn don't exist and indeed to talk of them as moral beneficiaries is actually nonsensical.
+--- 21923750
+>>21921645
+>>21922201
+>>21923637
+He also thinks consciousness doesn't exist.
+
+https://longtermrisk.org/the-eliminativist-approach-to-consciousness/#Denying_consciousness_altogether
+--- 21923955
+>>21923749
+>Moral considerations only make sense when talking about people who are born ... hypothetically
+You refuted your own stupid objection
+--- 21923997
+>better never to have been!
+--- 21924020
+If I wasn't a Christian, I'd agree with this work 100%. However, God has a purpose for everything that comes into being and His knowledge far outweighs my own. I take comfort in the fact that He works all things together for the good of those who love Him. Without this, however, life is dismal and suffering is entirely pointless. Having children would be a travesty. Indeed, so would all existence be.
+--- 21924022
+>>21923997
+You unironically can only understand the true horror of existence if you lead a relatively privileged life. If you're some peasant in Cambodia or something you'll just slave away unthinkingly.
+--- 21924034
+>>21924020
+This is the certainly the most popular coping mechanism. But it also means that suffering is not something finite, but infinite.
+--- 21924041
+>>21924020
+Wouldn't have kids if there's a chance of them going to hell.
+--- 21924053
+>>21923955
+No, you just have shit reading comprehension.
+--- 21924058
+>>21924020
+>Having children would be a travesty. Indeed, so would all existence be.
+Life is an infinitely worse travesty if Christianity is true. Your religion says that the majority of people literally get tortured forever after they die. I would argue that the case for antinatalism is far stronger if Christianity is true, since you are potentially subjecting your children to eternal damnation. The pointless suffering is only finite according to standard atheism.
+--- 21924073
+>>21924034
+For some, I suppose it is a coping mechanism. But as for me, I had no real desire to crawl out of the meaninglessness of my existence. It was God who called me out. Believe what you like, but I hold to Christianity because, by the grace of God, I believe it's true.
+
+That being said, I cannot for the life of me believe that the universe came out of nothing, or that mere physical matter is infinite; that it has always been. As absurd as the idea of God (let alone a triune God) is, the idea that everything came from nothing, or from mere infinite matter, is even more absurd to me.
+--- 21924089
+>>21924058
+To be quite frank, I agree with you in this as well. However, my understanding does not match with God's. He tells us that children are a blessing. Man was commanded to "be fruitful and multiply." Do I understand why this would be so if so many will end up in eternal suffering? Not entirely, no. But that is where faith comes in. Everything is by faith, really.
+
+I don't personally desire children, but I don't know what the future holds. We aren't meant to understand everything.
+--- 21924099
+>>21923955
+I'll spoonfeed you.
+
+The difference between talking about the welfare of hypothetical future humans and antinatalism is that the first takes births as given. It goes: "assuming humans WILL be born, what is the most moral way of treating them (implicitly: once they are born)?" It does not discuss the morality of bringing them into existence, only what to do regarding them once they've been brought into being.
+
+Antinatalism, however, posits, for any given individual human, a choice between existing and not existing, and says that not existing would be generally better/more moral for them. But this is incoherent. Because if they hadn't been born there would be no "them" that "not existing" would be better for. Bringing people into existence is not per se a moral action towards them because there is no "them" before they're brought into being. We can only be moral to them once they're actually alive. 
+
+"Never been born" is not preferable to "being born" because it's not really a choice (there is no "you who was never born" and "you who was born" to choose between).
+--- 21924110
+>>21908920
+Why would that kid be upset about having terminal cancer if he didn't think life was worth living. Seems like he would agree.
+--- 21924115
+>>21908933
+>Complete abolition of all sensation and meaning
+Fixed your post for you
+--- 21924117
+Living and learning is mostly suffering and being traumatized. Life sucks and it always will. I can’t understand people who have kids either. Actual good parents are rare. Most people are awful at parenting and being partners.
+--- 21924119
+>>21924053
+>>21924099
+The distinction you're making is meaningless. You're still discussing something that does not actually exist, but might. You simply draw an arbitrary line at one point so that the opposing argument can be cut off without being given further consideration.
+--- 21924132
+>>21924073
+I used to be a Christian and would have given a similar answer to you. I believe because I was given faith, etc. As for the creation of the universe, there's simply no way to know. If I think one explanation is more reasonable than another, that has no bearing on what actually occurred.
+--- 21924152
+>>21908920
+Now tell all the kids that don’t have cancer that they shouldn’t get to live because of the ones who do.
+--- 21924153
+>>21924119
+>You're still discussing something that does not actually exist, but might.
+
+You're an imbecile.
+--- 21924163
+>>21924153
+Rather I don't buy into your semantic bullshit. There is functionally no difference between, say, buying life insurance for the benefit of a future child you may or may not have, and choosing not to have a child. It's the same sort of action.
+--- 21924172
+>>21924152
+this holy shit antinatalists are retarded
+>uhhhh I feel bad u should feel bad too
+>well I don't
+>WHAT??? ARE U LE PSYCHOPATH???
+--- 21924188
+>>21923034
+Completely accurate desu
+--- 21924196
+>>21924163
+>Rather I don't buy into your semantic bullshit.
+
+The antinatalist proposition IS the semantic bullshit.
+--- 21924199
+>>21924152
+>Uh you can't morally reason about children that don't exist so there
+>Tell that antinatalist shit to the kids that don't exist bro, that's really mean
+So this is the power of natalism
+--- 21924207
+>>21922419
+Rightoids, christcucks, mudslimes, Jews and their mental slaves will never allow something similar to this to spawn.
+--- 21924214
+>>21924199
+What's with antinatalist types and shit reading comprehension?
+--- 21924215
+>>21924196
+Considering the possible suffering of beings that do not exist, but might exist, is perfectly reasonable. It's one of the considerations behind having animals spayed/neutered for example.
+--- 21924221
+>>21924214
+You need to say something that isn't nonsensical for others to comprehend it.
+--- 21924227
+>>21924215
+>Considering the possible suffering of beings that do not exist, but might exist, is perfectly reasonable.
+
+But that is not an exclusively antinatalistic concern and is not the same as the proposition "it is preferable/better for them not to exist than to exist".
+--- 21924231
+>>21924227
+And? You're doing the same thing as earlier, where you make a meaningless distinction and pretend it proves something. Oh, it's not *exclusively* an antinatalist concern? So fucking what? It's the same sort of logic, and one you presumably have no issue with in other cases since you're trying to prevent me from referring to it.
+--- 21924265
+Never understood how some people experience life, especially in first world countries, as suffering. Life on average is great. I think some people really need to get out of the cities and start a garden or something. Come on over to /hgm/ on /out/ and stop being miserable.
+--- 21924266
+>>21924231
+>It's the same sort of logic
+
+No, it is not. The issue with the antinatalist proposition is not that it deals with hypotheticals, as you are obsessively fixated on. It is that it is based on one specific incoherent hypothetical.
+
+"It is preferable/better for me not to exist than to exist" is incoherent. If I never exist, then there is no "me" for things to be better for. I can't be the beneficiary of a situation if I don't exist.
+
+We can only talk about alternatives within the context of an existing entity, be it actually existing or hypothetically existing. "It'd be better for me if I'd never been born" works as a manner of speech, as a figurative expression of exasperation or despair, but not on the literal level, but it is on the literal level that antinatalists operate. The entire worldview is based on the "semantic bullshit" you denounced back then, it's literally just wordplay.
+--- 21924286
+>>21924266
+No one says that a nonexistent person is benefiting from not existing. We are simply preventing the suffering that they would have endured had they existed, which fits your criteria that it is permissible to reason about a hypothetically existing being.
+--- 21924292
+>>21924266
+Also you are engaging in semantics because you take this >>21924286 and then reword it into something else (that I am making statements about the conditions of something that doesn't exist) which you can then dismiss.
+--- 21924367
+>>21908933
+I want to live in a transhumanist world
+I'm so tired of being baseline human
+--- 21924374
+>>21908920
+>Say that to a kid with terminal cancer that can leave the hospital.
+He can live his entire life watching anime and playing videogames bro. I can even get some brown bitches for him to suck his balls dry if he wants to.
+--- 21924672
+>>21918071
+>"Life is heckin meaningless and cruel!"
+Benatar says that it is felt only from a cosmic perspective. It can have meanings.
+Benatar says that life is meaningless only from the cosmic perspective. It can have meanings.
+--- 21925384
+>>21921086
+I like his color wheel analogy when it comes to describing the variety of people.
+--- 21925431
+Ultimately it doesn't make sense to demand from humanity to do the deed.
+they just won't listen, people that get into antinatalism were probably already convinced before they even started seriously thinking about this stuff.
+however I think we should still promote antinatalism left and right, we have nothing to lose anyways.
+--- 21925446
+>>21924367
+--- 21925484
+>>21924089
+So basically what you're saying is "I'm a mindless order follower who does what he's told without question, even if it means torturing innocent people". Martin Zender is right about you people being modern-day Eichmanns.
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1nIpaJF3t8 [Embed]
+--- 21925500
+>>21925446
+A mix of furry and machine please
+Also why are all the posthumans female? (not that I would mind...)
+--- 21925512
+>>21925431
+>we have nothing to lose anyways
+Not entirely accurate. Antinatalism is easy for the first few years until one day you wake up in abject horror. When you really do begin to conceive of the universe as a possibly endless suffering machine, you find it hard to prepare a cup of coffee, let alone go to work or engage with reality. Turns out that "deny our programming" bit eventually breaks the machine. 
+
+The best argument against antinatalism is that it turns your life into complete shit. Fuck utilitarian standards or some moral duty. You either put that shit down or it breaks your spine. Like I have already stated ITT, its an unfortunate thing to discover and its a true as anything. The only salvation lies in a total abandonment of consideration of the facts.
+--- 21925519
+>>21908901 (OP)
+>*the books that hunts the /lit/ board by being right*
+I assume you mean "haunt"...
+--- 21926239
+>>21925512
+It depends on the person I would say. I already had that wake up call of dread as describe it and yes I no longer am compelled by my programming either but this just means that I don't fear death anymore.
+if life gets too hard ill just leave, otherwise ill stick around and see what I can do instead. im willing to give this a shot, strategize, I have personally nothing to lose anyways.
+--- 21926242
+>>21925484
+He looks like Graham Chapman
+--- 21926253
+>>21926239
+cont
+in a way it's the natalists that have everything to lose and they're the ones that have to keep fighting for it, survival that is.
+we humans have to constantly look out for dangers that threaten our existence it's literally a losing battle against entropy.
+antinatalists just need to strategize and exploit that.
+--- 21926347
+>>21926239
+>I already had that wake up call of dread
+>I don't fear death anymore.
+If you don't fear death, you haven't had the wake-up call yet.
+--- 21926404
+>>21926347
+i've been dead, very close. the survival instinct is always a torture but in the abstract I don't care.
+--- 21926862
+I just cannot understand procreation.
+
+Why purposefully make another human?
+
+I know, from being a human myself, that it involves non-trivial harm. 
+
+So why would I make that, for someone else to deal with? There's no downside to not being born.
+--- 21926875
+>>21918214
+>this notion of even valuing "pleasure" or "happiness" is outdated by at least a century
+try 2.4 millenia. The Greeks had that covered before Socrates
+--- 21926880
+>>21926862
+NPC cattle don't think, im genuinely convinced that neurotypicals aren't very rational. they have conformists minds, conformity takes over in the neurotypical brain.
+and they don't have the need to rationalize their thoughts beyond a certain extent, they don't overthink. they can't make the connection that creating a person is unnecessary because they don't begin to think about it.
+whats a daily reality for me and you is a once in a blue moon event to normies.
+as for rational people that procreate, they're also retarded but in a slightly different way.
+neurotypicals aren't deluded they're just idiots. rational natalists are, however, deluded.
+--- 21926888
+>>21926862
+>>21926880
+Why haven't you killed yourselves? Could it be that you enjoy living and don't want to die?
+--- 21926906
+>>21926888
+dying is not the same as not being born
+--- 21926909
+>>21926906
+Why haven't you killed yourself?
+--- 21926919
+>>21926909
+Or anyone else. Because he thinks dying is bad and not desirable, which it would not be if existence is undesirable. But procreation genes takes huge effort and sacrifice and a certain degree of attractiveness and wealth, and because he is unfit to procreate he ascribes evil to those who are fit.
+--- 21926937
+>>21926919
+doesn't matter, i dont really see the point of this.
+a lot of people commit suicide. im sure that among antinatalists the suicide rate is off the charts compared to the global average.
+so in a way antinatalists do kill themselves, statistically speaking.
+--- 21926944
+>>21926937
+No, there are plenty of effective antinatalists but for different reasons, such as saving the planet or having children holding back the careers of women etc. that way the career gals and nu-males can pay themselves on the back for remaining manchildren forever
+--- 21926951
+>>21926919
+>lets prevent suffering
+"you stupid fucking incel could never breed if you even tried you genetically unfit CHUD why don't you just KILL YOURSELF HUH yeah still alive aren't ya?? therefore life is GOOD you dumb idiot parenting takes SCRIFICE and EFFORT something YOU are incapable of and no woman would ever LOVE you bla blabla"
+
+Yawn. Is this the extent of natalist logic? 
+
+No birth = no suffering = no want = no need = no death. With no downside. Why do it?
+--- 21926955
+>>21926951
+Death means no suffering either according to you and it will stop much more reproduction that 4chan posts. Certainly agitating for nuclear war with Russia would logically be a goal for anyone who is seeking to wipe out humanity
+--- 21926957
+>>21926955
+Also logically antinatalists should be agitating for euthanasia to treat depression or kids with cancer etc
+--- 21926958
+>>21926944
+yea being an antinatalist for things like the environment doesn't really count.
+those are usually referred to as "child free" the terms have become interchangeable in the past few years, antinatalist to me is someone who's pessimistic about life as a whole, almost purely for philosophical reasons.
+--- 21926965
+>>21926958
+No they have exactly the same motives. They are either incapable of reproducing or feel intimidated by the responsibility. Antinatalists are not against human life, they do not support nuclear war or euthanizing unwanted children
+--- 21926971
+>>21926955
+>dying is not the same as not being born
+
+Why can't you grasp this? The unborn have no interests, no desires, etc. Once born people have considerations like 
+>avoiding harm
+>avoiding dying
+>goals desires etc that will be frustrated by death
+
+there is a difference between killing someone and not having a child. this is trivial.
+
+I mean really your argument is so stupid I'm bored
+--- 21926979
+>>21926965
+nuclear war wouldn't solve the problem anyways.
+even if humans go extinct, the issue is life, all life.
+--- 21926983
+>>21926971
+If existence and life is undesirable then removing them is desirable. If however it is better to live than to die, then creation of life is no sin
+--- 21926985
+>>21926979
+Nuclear war would significantly reduce life, probably the most life-reducing measure possible
+--- 21927000
+>>21926985
+The theorized meteor that took out the dinosaurs was orders of magnitudes more impactful than a any world wide nuclear war combined, and even that wasn't enough to wipe out life.
+nuclear war wouldn't even begin to address the problem.
+--- 21927004
+>>21926983
+I actually think you're too stupid to understand that the "unborn" don't actually exist. Like I genuinely think you don't grasp this.
+
+Not starting a life is not the same as killing someone, or killing yourself, or dying.
+--- 21927009
+>>21927004
+he's a literal mudslime lol, what do you expect from religious people?
+--- 21927011
+>>21927000
+Nuclear war won’t extinguish all life but it will extinguish a lot more than anything else humanity can do
+
+>>21927004
+If life is a disease and malady then curing it would be a good thing

lit/21909823.txt

@@ -205,3 +205,20 @@ Thanks for stopping in Frank
 --- 21922380
 >>21922374
 Is that what the F stands for? I thought it stood for Fag.
+--- 21923995
+Bump
+--- 21924255
+Strike 2.
+--- 21924489
+>>21917994
+Wasn’t me there lol but I’ve self published already. I love &amp’s magazine format and would ideally aim to replicate it to a T. But no, no experience stringing together multiple stories and making graphic art but it sure looks fun to trial and error it!
+--- 21925425
+https://discord.gg/nVMwgNqh
+--- 21925473
+>>21924489
+Keep us posted man. I'll contribute or at least support it in any ways that Im able to as long as it seems like it will be cool and not some bullshit
+--- 21925523
+>>21925473
+Glad to see the interest. Tell you what, I'll learn how to actually publish magazines the way Hartley did and THEN I'll eventually return for some schizo call threads for submissions, help etc.
+--- 21926807
+Bumping

lit/21912608.txt

@@ -1131,3 +1131,521 @@ I'm suspending your poetic license effective immediately until you read some rem
 >>21923078
 Good critique and good analogy.
 I couldn’t help but think of an 80’s shredder like Malmsteen or Vai; lots of technical wankery, especially later on in their career.
+--- 21923628
+>>21923078
+I am in agreement with this criticism. I've told you before that your poetry is too oblique. I like that you use rap music as a inspiration for your rhythms, but even great symbolic poetry is clear about its subject. I do not care for obscurity at all actually. I think it's a degenerate presentation. Most of the time it has nothing to do with an elite shared system of symbols but rather private connections made in the mind of the poet. Try to write some really clear but perhaps witty poetry but with your usual rhythms and assonance
+--- 21923673
+>>21912608 (OP)
+I miss the daily poem initiative. It allowed me to discover some of my favorite works and the threads were always something to look forward to
+--- 21923687
+>>21923078
+Second poems about the illusions of normative beautiful vanity trapping and binding the mind/a man’s mind.
+
+> this is saccharine
+
+Intentionally so, poems about overwhelming vain pretty illusion 
+
+> Am I lost 
+You are lost sun caught by light, kek.
+
+>where did the drummer come from? What does a drummer have to do with anything except rhyming with summer?
+
+Drumming referring to the causal unfolding of nature and the creation of a maya illusion, common motif in Hindu material and in Dunsany’s work, the drumming be the illusionary worlds momentum and flux, the drummer being the illusion creator, shakti as maya or shiva themselves 
+
+> know not the souls of under utter
+> woe to know the flow of colds and scolds to comb?
+
+Back to the Hindu conception, the souls of under being the souls in hell, who are in perpetual desire to experience the constant flux of nature without satiation, dominated by craving of illusion, this is the flow of cold and scold to the comb.
+
+> If I had to make an analogy for your poetry, it would be a cake with dazzling structures made from fondant frosting
+
+Ye, second poems named dazzling lights for a reason! But I fully agree my poetry isn’t for public consumption, the vast majority is bound up to concepts of esotericism, kabbalistic schema, gematria consideration and so forth, now you may ask why then post and ask for critique on the poems, and it’s because on the purely technical level I like to gain more refinement, and to me that looks like becoming even more overwrought, because I consider stuff like mahakavya poetry to be very respectful, which looks like this.
+
+दाददो दुद्ददुद्दादी दाददो दूददीददोः । 
+दुद्दादं दददे दुद्दे दादाददददोऽददः ॥
+
+dādado duddaduddādī dādado dūdadīdadoḥ 
+duddādaṃ dadade dudde dādādadadado'dadaḥ
+
+"Sri Krishna, the giver of every boon, the scourge of the evil-minded, the purifier, the one whose arms can annihilate the wicked who cause suffering to others, shot his pain-causing arrow at the enemy."
+
+
+Devanagari
+न नोननुन्नो नुन्नोनो नाना नानानना ननु । 
+नुन्नोऽनुन्नो ननुन्नेनो नानेना नुन्ननुन्ननुत् ॥
+
+IAST
+na nonanunno nunnono nānā nānānanā nanu ।
+nunno'nunno nanunneno nānenā nunnanunnanut ॥
+
+Translation: "O ye many-faced ones (nānānanā), he indeed (nanu) is not a man (na nā) who is defeated by an inferior (ūna-nunno), and that man is no man (nā-anā) who persecutes one weaker than himself (nunnono). He whose leader is not defeated (na-nunneno) though overcome is not vanquished (nunno'nunno); he who persecutes the completely vanquished (nunna-nunna-nut) is not without sin (nānenā)."[16]
+--- 21923695
+>>21923687
+Devanagari
+कः कौ के केककेकाकः काककाकाककः ककः । 
+काकः काकः ककः काकः कुकाकः काककः कुकः ॥ 
+काककाक ककाकाक कुकाकाक ककाक क । 
+कुककाकाक काकाक कौकाकाक कुकाकक ॥ 
+लोलालालीललालोल लीलालालाललालल । 
+लेलेलेल ललालील लाल लोलील लालल ॥ 
+
+IAST
+kaḥ kau ke kekakekākaḥ kākakākākakaḥ kakaḥ । 
+kākaḥ kākaḥ kakaḥ kākaḥ kukākaḥ kākakaḥ kukaḥ ॥ 
+kākakāka kakākāka kukākāka kakāka ka । 
+kukakākāka kākāka kaukākāka kukākaka ॥ 
+lolālālīlalālola līlālālālalālala । 
+lelelela lalālīla lāla lolīla lālala ॥ 
+
+The Supreme God (kaḥ) (Rāma) [is resplendent] on [both] the earth (kau) and in Sāketaloka (ke); from him there is pleasure in the universe and in the sound of the peacock (kekakekākaḥ); he takes pleasure and bliss in the caw of the [Kākabhuśuṇḍi] crow (kākakākākakaḥ); from him there is pleasure for all the worlds (kakaḥ); for him the pain [of exile] is a pleasure (kākaḥ); his crow ([Kākabhuśuṇḍi]) is praiseworthy (kākaḥ); from him there is pleasure for Brahmā (kakaḥ); he calls out [to the devotees] (kākaḥ); from him there is pleasure for Kukā or Sītā (kukākaḥ); he calls out to the [Kākabhuśuṇḍi] crow (kākakaḥ); and from him there are worldly fruits and the bliss of liberation (kukaḥ). ॥ 20.92 ॥
+O the one who from whom there was pain on the head of the [Jayanta] crow (kākakāka); O the one from whom there is pleasure in [all] beings (kaka); please come, please come (āka āka); O the one from whom there is pleasure for Sītā (kukāka); please come (āka); O the one from whom there is pleasure for the universe (kaka); please come (āka); O Lord (ka); O one who invites to himself those who find pleasure in the [mortal] world (kukaka); please come, please come (āka āka); O the one from whom there is pleasure for both Brahmā and Viṣṇu (kāka); please come (āka); O the one from whom there is pleasure on the earth (kauka); please come, please come (āka āka); O the one who is called out to [for protection] by the evil crow [Jayanta] (kukākaka), [please come]. ॥ 20.93 ॥
+O the one who is playful with a row of locks of wavering hair (lolālālīlala); O the one who never changes (alola); O the one whose mouth is full of saliva in the pastimes [as a child] (līlālālālalālala); O the one who accepts the wealth of earth (Sītā) in the sport [of breaking the bow of Śiva] (lelelela); O the one who destroys the multitude
+--- 21923698
+>>21923695
+of worldly desires of mortals (lalālīla); O the child [form of Rāma] (lāla); O the one who destroys the fickle-minded nature of the being (lolīla); [may you ever] delight [in my mind] (lālala). ॥ 20.94 ॥
+--- 21923707
+>>21923628
+The thing is, the symbols and images used are still within esotericism and broader religious and poetry traditions, and if I were to go with a simpler theme or simpler conception and focus on that, that would negate the reason I’m even interested in poetry which is an extension of esoteric contemplation for me, and while I could try to treat the subject more easy in a more confined manner that seeks to be clear to the reader, that would handcuff me to writing things I don’t care about and not actually exploring the depth of that qualia or kabbalistic patterning in any way I would consider actually rich.
+
+I am also an extremist bluntly, I despise someone like auden for example but find the above all very very inspiring, Witt alone and personality projection and emotion projection alone dont really do it for me, though I know I can do them fine, when I’ve shitposted by writing rap it’s easy enough to get wordplay and entendres going and so forth. But if it’s not an extension of the esoteric practice, I personally feel I don’t gain the value from the verse.
+--- 21923751
+>>21923687
+I am impressed by Indian intricacy as well, but that has nothing to do with obscurity. Indian intricacy is like one million gemstones studded into a sentence. 
+>>21923707
+You and I have very similar interests but split between us lies in the fact that you sound more like French symbolists whereas I think Shakespeare and John Milton can achieve esotericism without obscurity. This is why I like premodernist poetry. I prefer J.R.R. Tolkien over Ezra Pound. I want to express ideas well, simplify narrative progression, and avoid too much imagery and too much symbolism. If the poetry is muddled, society is muddled.
+--- 21923804
+>>21923707
+I don't know if you can read French but you should read some Jean de La Fontaine, Molière, and Boileau to see if it inspires you to bring some clarity to your work.
+--- 21923806
+>>21922611
+>prognosticating
+--- 21923807
+>>21923751
+I actually despise modernism but on the grounds that the obscurity is artificial and there’s not much technical control as they pretend.
+
+But as for French symbolist/decadents, I consider them literally some of my favorite poets and biggest inspirations, as for Milton and Shakespeare, while I consider both very highly, I don’t consider either man a very competent esotericist, both being rather basic, someone like AE Russell Is actually decent, CAS is decent, the greatest esoteric writer is plainly Blake and his best work is his prophetic books to me, I also consider Blake to be basically the best poet on account of his prophetic books, but that’s again a division in taste, I’m sure you don’t appreciate the prophetic books detailing Blake’s cosmology which don’t really allow themselves to be opened by the simple reading if you don’t study his whole ontology and influences, ya know?
+
+For me the point of a verse is a kind of intoxication by symbol and sound and image, we’re simply divided on the level of principle I think. For example you mention the Hindu work is million-gemstone like, I specifically have works like this in intent, for example this poem every single line shares the same ipa vowel patterning but is also a sestina and the final envoi is Univocalic using the Long “I” 
+
+Simurghine sestina 
+
+
+The breast is burning from the blaze of i, 
+The breath in-turning comes and bathes of brine, 
+The tempest bursting from the wastes of time, 
+To beckon mirth with floods of lays and lines, 
+The endless wordings but the face and sign 
+Of heaven churning up the base of mind. 
+
+The pregnant earth is dust and rains the mind 
+To let it birth its buds and raise the I, 
+The tended herb is glut and shades the Lines 
+Of freshest verdant brush and makes the time 
+Of scented myrrh with musk and sprays of brine, 
+And heads in turbans lust to gaze the sign, 
+
+
+The pendant-perfect hung to trace the sign, 
+The crescent curves with suns and rays the mind, 
+A presence stirs in love and shakes the I,
+The semblance blurring from the break of lines,
+The essence swirling cuts the phase of time 
+And mended surgings gush the place of brine, 
+
+Cont
+--- 21923812
+>>21923807
+The swelling currents rush the lake of brine 
+The yelling whirling tongues and shapes and sign 
+Of blessing-cursings cut and change the mind, 
+And hell is heard with lungs the rage of i, 
+The flesh is hurling blood the clay of lines, 
+And levins whirring’s struck the space and time, 
+
+The legend-bird in gusts of day and time, 
+The pleasant chirping hushed to taste the brine,
+The splendid world-simurgh the grace of i, 
+The remnants merging touch the great of mind, 
+The vested virgin plucked and gave the sign, 
+The trellised person thrust to pray the lines, 
+
+
+The dreaded sermon busts the graven lines,
+The precious burdens just the gates of time,
+The threaded Persian rug and stains of brine,
+The necklace pearled with studs and chains the sign,
+The restless versing but the brain and mind,
+The selfless perfect hum, the name of I.
+My finite i binds bride-like twilight lines,
+Sky’s dyed by brine-tides wine-bright hide night time, 
+Thy eye, sights signs, writes rhymes, likewise, finds mind.
+--- 21923815
+>>21923804
+I can’t but I’ve studied a lot of French lit including these, I’ve also studied the very concept of light smoothness vs gaud and even traced a history of the tendencies of these, imo my style is more akin to what’s common in Asia but also more common to what a lot of euro verse was like pre chaucerian/dantean influence over the medieval gaudy types, I actually have a whole essay on the topic of the origin of fixation on clarity, sweetness and lightness tracing it from these all the way to contemporary verse. I’m not ignorant of it, I just don’t share the ideal.
+--- 21923819
+>>21923687
+>my poetry isn’t for public consumption
+Why post it in this thread then? Keep it to yourself. Saying you're asking for feedback to refine your technique is a hand-wave, as "technique" fundamentally intertwines wordplay and meaning. 
+
+Furthermore, deflecting well thought out criticism with esoteric obscurantism doesn't make it more profound. 
+Responding with "aha! but you see this is what I intended all along because Delhi Theravada Mumbai copy/paste" is actually pointless and attention-seeking.
+--- 21923832
+>>21923819
+I don’t believe that’s so, I fully believe content and technique and philosophical conception can be divided and approached divorced and there is broader questions of rhetorical technique such as coming off with too much bathos etc.
+
+> well thought out criticism with esoteric obscurantism doesn't make it more profound.
+
+It’s not to deflect or make it more profound, that’s simply the actual case of it, again if I wrote about more common theme or used common aesthetic or the like, it would fail to be actually of value to me, that’s the worst possible thing for ones own verse, to not enjoy it yourself. The copy paste is simply to show what some of the ideals look like. Ya know?
+--- 21923872
+>>21923807
+>The pregnant earth is dust and rains the mind
+This line is a good example of my problem with your poetry. I get that rains is supposed to be a pun on the French word for Queen but the literal meaning is too nonsensical for me. Your poetry is like a collage movie. I find all the lurid disjointed imagery to be detrimental to the reader. Also, this poem is far too monotonous. I would have preferred it if you varied the placement of the assonance. 
+>>21923815
+Is there literature on smoothness versus gaudy that you can link? I would like to read your essay too. Also, I must say that I do not prefer lightness and sweetness, which I find to be too platonic for my tastes. I am personally much more Gothic. Eroticism, ruggedness, wilderness, and frenzy might fit with my aesthetic. However, I would subjugate frenzy to a style with more clarity in subject and locution.
+--- 21923902
+>>21923832
+Your deflection is pre-emptive, since a common theme in your posts in this thread and others is that you seldom concede on any disagreement of critique of your perspective. 
+I don't doubt your knowledge on these topics by the way, I'm questioning your motives. Not that I ask you to explain yourself, I hope the observation gives you a point to reflect upon.
+--- 21923918
+>>21923872
+> Is there literature on smoothness versus gaudy that you can link?
+
+I can link some stuff which argue from the perspective of light sweetness as king, like this https://victorianweb.org/authors/arnold/writings/1.html Matthew Arnold is a good poet who shills for it hard, but the problem is you only see this occur in euro lit and backing the perspective of gaud as brute, for example you can see this same conception in Samuel Johnson’s treatment of Spenser, there’s a really good essay arguing about how the author finds simplistic writing the historical evolution of complex writing but I can’t remember who wrote it, maybe Orwell of all people? I really can’t recall, if I do, I’ll link it.
+
+Here’s the essay I wrote, it’s a paragone between Elizabethan verse and its ramifications vs rap, which is I know on first glance a silly topic, but it allows for a good exploration imo.
+
+Here’s my essay, it couldn’t be on regular Pastebin because Pastebin doesn’t like naughty words, and 4chan thinks the direct link is spam.
+
+https://pastebin.com/EAyBakjG
+
+>>21923902
+
+I feel ya, I’m just very very in a word, driven by the ideals and aesthetic conceptions I’ve formulated to the point That I’m set into my idea of what is beauty, what is my aesthetic core and so forth, I actually have a whole essay explaining how I derive my aesthetic ideals from my ontology even. Since it’s at that point, I think the only way my formal principles could be shifted is if my ontology itself was changed, which isn’t really gonna happen.
+--- 21923935
+>>21923872
+Also my autism is kicking in, the image is likening to a lot of ancient material where it’s believed the dry earth is like a womb, the fluid rain is seminal and all of the vegetation is the married product of it, but totally I think in an average poem there should be variance of assonance type, however I do think it’s pleasing to have such monotony in some poems as a virtuoso element, also fits in with the conception of the simurgh I have from the Persian and Hebrew sources, but enough from me i won’t reply further unless someone replies first, I feel as if I’m approaching the spam level of posting. Apologies.
+--- 21923988
+>>21923078
+while there is definitely this, i think his biggest issue is aiming for too long a length while disregarding any narrative progression or tonal cohesion. im not a fan of the cringy d&d handling of tired religious allusions, but those arent a problem on paper either. it would help if he listened to anyone after all these years instead of using these threads as another excuse to shill his shanties, but if you read him as an outsider artist (as yours truly the no1 frater scholar likes to do) you can appreciate him as one of god's quirky little additions, even if you cant appreciate his work.
+--- 21923996
+>>21923918
+Your response is predictable, but very honest and self aware of your own zealotry. Hey, if it works for you, then more power to you my friend. 
+I was wondering why I even pursued this tangent in a poetry thread, since I mostly lurk. 
+I recall its because I treated a patient similar in their autistic intensity (not meant pejoratively) in their interest in aesthetics and the esoteric, which started off as seemingly harmless eccentricity but eventually lead to dysfunction in interpersonal and professional spheres. 
+Anyhow, the similarities are superficial, and unrelenting conviction in one's perspective isn't pathological per se.
+--- 21924007
+>>21917862
+>perfection in harmonization
+but poems also exist in relation to other poems, so they should be in harmony with other poems, no? if they're too derivative, if the recombination is uninspired, than they feel redundant and they fail to contrast with other poetry. and because harmony also has to do with contrast, they're rendered dissonant by being too similar to surrounding poems, like a 460hz sounding over a 440hz.
+--- 21924010
+>>21923918
+Thank you for linking those essays. I will have to open up my Johnson and find what he says about Spenser. If gaud is related to brutality, then perhaps I should tease out another conception related to gaud because I associate it with ugliness whereas my strain of brutality is meant to be the vitality of the feminine subsumed into a wildness that is robust (remember that the root of robust is Latin for oak tree). If you can imagine Wagner's death of Siegfried mixed with Lil baby talking about thugging out and throatfucking thots then you might understand how I try to mix vitality with grandeur, brutality with ecstasy. Also, I think you would appreciate this Goethe poem. Try to read it in German. Don't worry too much about the meaning but rather focus on the sounds. https://www.oxfordlieder.co.uk/song/4163
+--- 21924042
+>>21923815
+I forgot to ask you if you could elaborate on what you mean by that earlier strain of European poetry and how the medieval poets were gaudy. Also, to elaborate on what you were saying about Asian poets.
+--- 21924057
+>>21924007
+Honestly I can’t say I’ve consumed any art and thought “this is redundant” it’s only bad if the technique is not on point, if you could perfectly pastiche Milton and add no new vision but perfectly steal his vision and sound and quality but wrote new poems, what would be wrong with that? Even better if you could fuse all of Shakespeare and Dante and make it coherent and write imitating both men flawlessly, why would there be reason to complain? 
+
+>>21924010
+Gaud is often related to a kind of savage/brutality. For me the beastly quality I enjoy can be found pretty decently in Robert Howard’s poetry honestly, it’s rushing speed and striking and eating and burning, for me I relate the feminine more with that sentimental style than any kind of wildness.
+
+I’ll read the poem and also look for a translation in a bit, multi tasking but in a while I’ll definitely read it, post some more of your verse anon.
+
+>>21924042
+I could but this gets to a main point in that essay since I post multiple examples and give specific poems, better to just read the essay than repeat it here.
+--- 21924094
+>>21916269
+This one is very nice
+--- 21924095
+>>21923988
+>it would help if he listened to anyone after all these years instead of using these threads as another excuse to shill his shanties,
+Kek'd and checked
+--- 21924131
+>>21924057
+>I could but this gets to a main point in that essay since I post multiple examples and give specific poems, better to just read the essay than repeat it here.
+All right. I will probably be reading everything that we discussed for the rest of the day. Also, I think sentimentality and wildness are both related to the feminine essence to which I refer. I think of masculine as disciplined and dominant. Thor is masculine and Odin is feminine. What should I read from Robert Howard?
+--- 21924154
+>>21924131
+I see the mantic and manic as both usually male but having feminine modes, Odin I see as very masculine in the mold of various knowledge deities who have that mystical hermaphroditism. But here’s two verses of Robert Howard’s.
+
+ The madness of cormac
+
+Lock your arm of iron
+Around the reeling moon,
+Draw your sword, the grey sword,
+The sword of Fin, the fey sword,
+Carved with a nameless rune.
+
+Brace your feet like talons
+On the dreaming world,
+Break the shapes, the dread shapes,
+The dragon-things, the red apes,
+Out of the abyss hurled.
+
+Ghosts of all the ages
+Fill the ancient skies,
+Red queens and white kings,
+Nameless forms and night things,
+Men fools and wise.
+
+Red thunder 
+
+Thunder in the black skies beating down the rain,
+Thunder in the black cliffs, looming o’er the main,
+Thunder on the black sea and thunder in my brain.
+
+God’s on the night wind, Satan’s on his throne
+By the red lake lurid and great grim stone–
+Still through the roofs of Hell the brooding thunders drone.
+
+Trident for a rapier, Satan thrusts and foins
+Crouching on his throne with his great goat loins–
+Souls are his footstools and hearts are his coins.
+
+Slave of all the ages, though lord of the air;
+Solomon o’ercame him, set him roaring there,
+Crouching on the coals where the great flames flare.
+
+Thunder from the grim gulfs, out of cosmic deep
+Where the red eyes glimmer and the black wings sweep,
+Thunder down to Satan, wake him from his sleep!
+
+Thunder on the shores of Hell, scattering the coal,
+Riding down the mountain on the moon-mare’s foal,
+Blasting out the caves of the gnome and the troll.
+
+Satan, brother Satan, rise and break your chain!
+Solomon is dust and his spells grow vain–
+Rise through the world in the thunder and the rain.
+
+Rush upon the cities, roaring in your might,
+Break down the towers in the moon’s pale light,
+Build a wall of corpses for God’s great sight,
+Quench the red thunder in my brain this night.
+--- 21924161
+>>21924154
+Also the fifth line of this poem captures precisely the kind of bestial quality I want certain verses to have.
+
+"Aw Come On And Fight!" (1930) 
+
+On my hands and knees in a scarlet pool
+I heard the referee toll,
+And the crowd roared: "Kill the yellow bum!"
+Like the sea along a shoal.
+
+I sprang, I struck, I crushed his skull
+With a sudden desperate swing,
+He died with his eyes to the glaring lights
+And his back to the canvassed ring.
+
+The referee counted above the dead,
+I swayed and clung to the ropes,
+And the crowd roared: "Yellow! Both of em's bums!"
+Like the seas on the beaches slopes.
+--- 21924165
+>>21924057
+>Honestly I can’t say I’ve consumed any art and thought “this is redundant”
+sounds like a u problem desu
+>imitating both men flawlessly
+>perfectly steal
+this is why i made the frequency analogy. 440 hz over 440 hz is in perfect unison and doesn't sound bad, like you say. but the point is that you cant imitate perfectly, and if you dont use that inherent imperfection to your adventage to distinguish yourself further from your source, you end up at an awkward distance from your source, and the work ends up falling into the uncanny valley, where the similarities only highlight the imperfections.
+--- 21924166
+>>21924161
+
+Please post some good modernist poetry. 
+Just think about what you hate the most and post that. In theory it should be good by modernist standards and terrible by yours. 
+Inb4 rupi Kaur
+pls no
+--- 21924226
+>>21924166
+I doubt it would work because while I disagree much with the modernists it’s not a complete inversion of all principles. 
+
+Like pic related is one of lattimore’s poem and its p bad. 
+
+Phillip B Williams is steaming hot shit IMO 
+
+Epithalamium
+BY PHILLIP B. WILLIAMS
+A kiss. Train ride home from a late dinner,
+City Hall and document signing. Wasn't cold
+but we cuddled in an empty car, legal.
+Last month a couple of guys left a gay bar
+and were beaten with poles on the way
+to their car. No one called them faggot
+so no hate crime's documented. A beat down
+is what some pray for, a pulse left to count.
+We knew we weren't protected. We knew
+our rings were party favors, gold to steal
+the shine from. We couldn't protect us, 
+knew the law wouldn't know how. Still, his
+beard across my brow, the burn of his cologne.
+When the train stopped, the people came on.
+
+Of Darker Ceremonies 
+BY PHILLIP B. WILLIAMS
+After “E. 1999 Eternal” by Bone Thugs-n-Harmony
+Dear god of armed robberies and puff-puff-pass,
+a chalk outline unpeels from the street, smashes 
+every windshield, and leaves florid temples of crack 
+on porches. Burnt-black pleats of joint-pressed lips
+prophesied your return. Please accept these nickel bags 
+as offerings. Brick bastions of piss-stench thresholds 
+and boarded windows require a weekly sacrifice.
+Is there a Tarot card called “The Corner,” a shrike 
+shown lifting a corpse from the pike of a middle finger?
+Children speak to their murdered brothers with a cereal box 
+and construction paper cut into a Ouija’s tongue that licks 
+yes when asked if liquor could polish a skull in a way 
+pleasing to the dead, licks no when asked for a name.
+--- 21924233
+>>21912608 (OP)
+
+Outside the walls of a city comes death
+To the woods, for a boy with ending breath.
+The wind undertakes a warming blowing
+To grant the child before his going
+An hour, his final, and first, of touch
+Though not from human hands,tender enough
+To comfort in breath the bitterness digging
+Regret in his face as paths of aging
+Where the sorrows grow of an unkissed boy
+Like bushes. His pleasures were but to toy
+With imagining what joy it can be
+To feel the sun of a hand, and to see
+Eyes so near to your own, that slightest move
+From her head or from yours, is to chance to love.
+--- 21924261
+>>21924226
+
+Yes those are awful. It was worth a try. I enjoy translations of farsi and Urdu/hindi poetry, which often end up metered (if the translator is competent) but do not rhyme. Thus, I thought that I would enjoy modernist poetry but this does not appear to be the case.
+--- 21924267
+>>21924154
+>>21924161
+I find this corny. The second poem sounds like animal crackers in my soup. I am in the middle of reading your essay by the way. If I can have the gaud and muscularity of Beowulf with the natural rhythms of Milton, Donne, Spenser, and Eliot, then I would want to read that.
+>>21924226
+I agree. It would be better in a novel. Regardless, the banal and middle-class style is so detached from beauty because these people have no relation to the beauty and wisdom in religion and mythology. Their lack of morals lie not only in their behavior but in their souls. Their feelings and thoughts do not correspond with what functions in actuality.
+--- 21924309
+>>21924261
+Nah modernism is worlds away from whatcha like.
+
+>>21924267
+I broadly agree but also don’t think it necessarily has to be like this because I can point to living poets who I think are still pretty good, or as the essay shows, still a lot of concern for technique exists. 
+
+But for 
+
+>If I can have the gaud and muscularity of Beowulf with the natural rhythms of Milton, Donne, Spenser, and Eliot, then I would want to read that.
+
+I think something that would be interesting for you to read would be the skald poetry I mention in that essay, whether in the more normal form or the Dróttkvætt meter. in the more relaxed meter there’s still a good amount of control but also play with natural speech sounds, in the Dróttkvætt it becomes p complex 
+
+for more modern writers, look at hopkins verse and Vernon Watkins and the related new apocalyptics movement/group 
+
+poem from hopkins and pic related is Watkins 
+
+The windhover by hopkins 
+
+I caught this morning morning's minion, king-
+ dom of daylight's dauphin, dapple-dawn-drawn Falcon, in his riding
+ Of the rolling level underneath him steady air, and striding
+High there, how he rung upon the rein of a wimpling wing
+In his ecstasy! then off, off forth on swing,
+ As a skate's heel sweeps smooth on a bow-bend: the hurl and gliding
+ Rebuffed the big wind. My heart in hiding
+Stirred for a bird, – the achieve of, the mastery of the thing!
+
+Brute beauty and valour and act, oh, air, pride, plume, here
+ Buckle! AND the fire that breaks from thee then, a billion
+Times told lovelier, more dangerous, O my chevalier!
+ 
+ No wonder of it: shéer plód makes plough down sillion
+Shine, and blue-bleak embers, ah my dear,
+ Fall, gall themselves, and gash gold-vermilion.
+
+
+Swinburne also has some extreme works like nephelidia
+--- 21924313
+>>21924309
+Nephelidia
+
+From the depth of the dreamy decline of the dawn through a notable nimbus of nebulous noonshine, 
+ Pallid and pink as the palm of the flag-flower that flickers with fear of the flies as they float, 
+Are they looks of our lovers that lustrously lean from a marvel of mystic miraculous moonshine, 
+ These that we feel in the blood of our blushes that thicken and threaten with throbs through the throat? 
+Thicken and thrill as a theatre thronged at appeal of an actor's appalled agitation, 
+ Fainter with fear of the fires of the future than pale with the promise of pride in the past; 
+Flushed with the famishing fullness of fever that reddens with radiance of rathe recreation, 
+ Gaunt as the ghastliest of glimpses that gleam through the gloom of the gloaming when ghosts go aghast? 
+Nay, for the nick of the tick of the time is a tremulous touch on the temples of terror, 
+ Strained as the sinews yet strenuous with strife of the dead who is dumb as the dust-heaps of death: 
+Surely no soul is it, sweet as the spasm of erotic emotional exquisite error, 
+ Bathed in the balms of beatified bliss, beatific itself by beatitude's breath. 
+Surely no spirit or sense of a soul that was soft to the spirit and soul of our senses 
+ Sweetens the stress of suspiring suspicion that sobs in the semblance and sound of a sigh; 
+Only this oracle opens Olympian, in mystical moods and triangular tenses— 
+ "Life is the lust of a lamp for the light that is dark till the dawn of the day when we die." 
+Mild is the mirk and monotonous music of memory, melodiously mute as it may be, 
+ While the hope in the heart of a hero is bruised by the breach of men's rapiers, resigned to the rod; 
+Made meek as a mother whose bosom-beats bound with the bliss-bringing bulk of a balm-breathing baby, 
+ As they grope through the grave-yard of creeds, under skies growing green at a groan for the grimness of God. 
+Blank is the book of his bounty beholden of old, and its binding is blacker than bluer: 
+ Out of blue into black is the scheme of the skies, and their dews are the wine of the bloodshed of things; 
+Till the darkling desire of delight shall be free as a fawn that is freed from the fangs that pursue her, 
+ Till the heart-beats of hell shall be hushed by a hymn from the hunt that has harried the kennel of kings.
+--- 21924371
+>>21924313
+I have not read this from Swinburne. I read his poetry in a file which did not let me appreciate such long lines. Is all of his poetry like this? I have an interest in especially long lines. I'm not much of a fan of using visual effects but I think the overwhelming effect is interesting.
+>>21924309
+I will be back later, but I want to say you should send me some of that Nordic poetry to look at. Also, I find it curious that Johnson says Spencer is uniformity is barbaric because I think certain rhetorical devices such as Anaphora/Epistrophe/Symploce/Epanalepsis & Antithesis/Antimetabole/Chiasmus Also give a piece uniformity, tightening its structure, and giving emphasis to wit.
+--- 21924486
+Our bodies which one writhed together in the grass,
+Will writhe with maggots in the ground
+Obscurity
+Our last solitary delight.
+comfort
+like a young boy snug in the backseat
+waiting for his parents to return,
+with milk, and bread
+--- 21924499
+ohh like a child you must be
+laugh in the face of death arditi
+inshallah
+eja eja allah
+inshallah
+eja eja allah 
+you Italian feyadeen
+--- 21925659
+Inside rumbling
+Belly bursting
+Quick flushing
+Poo Pooing
+--- 21926146
+>>21923687
+>>21923695
+>>21923707
+>>21923807
+>>21923918
+rate mine >>21917910 >>21920701
+--- 21926192
+>>21913630
+fuck u
+--- 21926819
+>>21926146
+Sure in a little while I’ll read over it
+--- 21926952
+>>21917910
+Deepest apologies anon, I was gonna compliment how it sounded on first inspection of the first stanza but reckoned it too high quality and out of range aesthetically for who I know posts here, and having googled it, I found the full poem you’re posting from, I have no problem discussing the poem but, if it’s not yours, why not give us some of your thoughts about it first, get a proper dialogue going. I’m definitely reading this “tales of terror and wonder “ eventually though, thanks for the recommendation.
+--- 21927386
+Sleep, Silence' child, sweet father of soft rest,
+Prince, whose approach peace to all mortals brings,
+Indifferent host to shepherds and to kings,
+Sole comforter of minds with grief opprest;
+Lo, by thy charming rod all breathing things
+Lie slumb'ring, with forgetfulness possest,
+And yet o'er me to spread thy drowsy wings
+Thou spares, alas! who cannot be thy guest.
+Since I am thine, O come, but with that face
+To inward light which thou art wont to show,
+With feigned solace ease a true-felt woe;
+Or if, deaf god, thou do deny that grace,
+Come as thou wilt, and what thou wilt bequeath,
+I long to kiss the image of my death.

lit/21914448.txt

@@ -388,3 +388,141 @@ Why not just have kids with a dozen women?
 How many underage anons are on this board? Or does not having sex stunt one's development this much?
 --- 21923433
 Any recommended cope reading for a 30 year old incel like me?
+--- 21923492
+>>21923265
+That's assuming you already hit a baseline of social acceptability though. What if being yourself entails something actually shameful, like a scat fetish?
+--- 21924171
+>>21917742
+Was just thinking of what that book was called thanks anon.
+--- 21924323
+>>21923167
+You will know though. You will always doubt whether or not you are worth love without resorting to manipulation tactics. That is if you have the capability to think that deeply. If not you will just resent without understanding why.
+--- 21924340
+>>21923150
+Can you even do it right these days? I don't browse social media anymore and go outside but all the irl women I encounter are still bad (except for a few of the seniors, I appreciate those gals because they make me feel warm and bubbly, more evidence of a forgotten era). Modern women literally don't know what's good for them and they've ruined themselves. Is racemixing with third worlders the only viable meta now? Because it's that or put up with the western bullshit that's been a big part of why everything sucks now and the only way to not burn yourself with that game is lowering your moral standards to manipulation.
+--- 21924346
+>>21914448 (OP)
+You can read all the books you want. In the end --as everyone who's been in a relationship knows (and you clearly haven't)--, he who controls the relationship is the one who cares less, and that won't be your case with any women ever. Assuming any woman lets you touch her with a 3-feet pole let alone date her, you wouldn't have any "leverage" whatsoever.
+--- 21924381
+>>21921240
+true. they reflect your sense of self-worth, your anxieties and fears, your appetite for life. most dudes can't even approach 9s and 10s because they couldn't possibly esteem themselves high enough to even think they're worth a glance. putting women on a pedestal, even the minutia of letting them decide what's for dinner or where to go next, all signs of a lack of direction in man. and there's nothing a woman hates more than a man who is dependent. the motherly types are merely women who yearn for their own children. if you want to know who you are, look at your woman.
+--- 21924387
+>>21923433
+my diary desu
+--- 21924403
+>>21924323
+Sounds like projection. In reality, I wouldn’t care.
+--- 21924413
+>>21914468
+FPBP
+--- 21924417
+>>21924346
+low IQ
+--- 21924418
+>>21924346
+Works for the guy in the OP so you’re wrong.
+--- 21924435
+>>21924417
+Virgin.
+>>21924418
+Nope. He's using it textbook style. Are you retarded? Clearly yes.
+--- 21924456
+>>21924435
+If what you said was true, women would always have control because men almost always approach first, they are the first to care. But that is clearly not the case in many relationships and men can be in control if they know how to play their cards. Learning how to behave in a relationship is dealt with in all these books. That’s the whole point.
+--- 21924463
+>>21924403
+Ok. Do it up.
+--- 21924510
+>>21924456
+Except it's literally true. Maybe try to be in relationships instead of reading books about them? Oh that's right, you can't because no woman wants to be with you. Yeah, keep reading your books and don't shoot up a school.
+--- 21924541
+>>21924510
+It’s clearly not always true when people like the guy in OP’s image exist and statistically speaking he can’t be the only one. Like I said, men can be in control if they know to play their cards.”Don’t shoot up a school”? Really? God, you sound like such a tranny.
+--- 21924563
+>>21924510
+What's with the tone? Act normal.
+--- 21924645
+>>21924340
+Most of the women I've met seem pretty decent.
+--- 21924677
+>>21924510
+It is literally true, I didn't care enough to respond to other posts but you're one of the few anons in this thread who actually was in more than 1-2(or 0) relationships. Shit sucks though I used to care a lot, now that I don't I get my dick sucked more easily but it means way less to me.
+--- 21924698
+Is it true that women are worthless? Not as a whole but as in getting in a relationship with a woman. None of you has positive things to say.
+--- 21924712
+>>21924677
+>women are always in control
+>it’s literally true
+Why even live?
+--- 21924720
+>>21914448 (OP)
+No need to read a book about it. There's one super easy strategy you can use that I guarantee will get results. All you have to do is treat them like they are human beings. You know, like a friend. Rather than an object to be pursued, treat them like, you know, people with thoughts and feelings. Then just keep doing that and you'll get results. Also, listening goes a long way. That's not unique to women, though. Everyone likes to feel heard.
+--- 21924723
+>>21924720
+This doesn’t work. This leads to friendzone. How old are you?
+--- 21924760
+>>21924723
+I'm in my mid-thirties, I'm married, and I've had more opportunities throughout my entire adult life than I did prior to being in a relationship. It becomes so much more obvious what you need to do when you're not looking. The best relationships are predicated on friendship.
+--- 21924766
+>>21924720
+>All you have to do is treat them like they are human beings.
+Those bad boys/abusers sure do shower them with love. If only nice guys be capable of doing the same.
+--- 21924774
+>>21914448 (OP)
+Why the fuck would I want a fat girlfriend?
+--- 21924780
+>>21924766
+Depends on the kind of woman you're looking for. If you want a woman who is attracted to that kind of guy, then yeah, treating them like people won't work. Most women aren't like that, however. Especially if you're looking for a real relationship and not something so shallow.
+--- 21924792
+>>21924712
+Not that part man. You're not always the one who cares more. I mean, maybe you are, but that's not a male problem, that's a you problem.
+--- 21924817
+>>21924780
+It really seems like you have lucked out with women.
+--- 21924868
+>>21914448 (OP)
+>Any books on how to control and manipulate women? Any good 'dark psychology' books?
+
+Just b urself.
+--- 21924888
+>>21924792
+How do you approach women while also not caring?
+--- 21924899
+>>21924888
+Not him but sometimes I hold out my hand with seeds at the park hoping a sparrow will land on it instead of just waiting for me to toss them. One in fifty times, it happens, and it's magical. But I never expect it. And I certainly wouldn't sit on a park bench saying "f-fuck you! I don't even care if you land on my hand anyway! You fucking sparrows are all the same! This is bullshit!" 
+
+It helps if women are already as important to you as sparrows are to me: nice bonuses if you can get one to land on your hand, and make life pretty while they're fluttering around in the background, but ultimately pretty fucking useless and all they really do is eat, shit, nest, and make the same three sounds over and over again.
+--- 21924967
+>>21914448 (OP)
+she maay have been 140IQ but she obviously doesnt meditate (gym for the soul and tulpas). If she meditated, then she might be steeled against dumb tricks such as dangling a carrot of the material world in front of her.
+--- 21925738
+>>21924868
+--- 21926097
+>>21919488
+You severely underestimate how naive some people are. There are people who don't brush their teeth for weeks and ask why they can't pull bitches. And the only reason for that is that they saw someone who is even more unkempt pull bitches. These basic ideas get lost very fast when you see something that completely opposes them. 
+It is never a wrong thing to tell people that becoming high-value is important. Carrot and stick. If becoming high-value will get me bitches then I will try and become high-value. These books have their worth, redundancies aside.
+Have you never seen those people that talk to women as if they were nobility from the 1600s? Those guys could use a book like this. Looks aren't everything, they are a major part of it, but an ugly guy can get a girl easily if he just knows how to communicate with women effectively.
+--- 21926136
+>>21924888
+Spark up a conversation because you want to talk. Not because you want to talk with her, but because you want to talk. She should never be the goal. The goal is something you set for your own self-benefit. This is pretty hard, but you just have to get across that you are not so much interested in her, you are more interested in what you can get out of her. Never let a woman know you are interested in her, all she has to do is make a decision and if you aren't as attractive as her own arbitrary values of attraction, she will say no. The book recommended a few posts ago "The mystery method" actually talks about this it seems, picked it up for fun because of this thread and it's a fun read. Maybe it will help out some anons.
+--- 21926247
+>>21914448 (OP)
+>>>/x/omg
+--- 21927046
+>>21926097
+Nothing you wrote is true, you had to come up with outrageous caricature to justify existence of these retarded toddler books. These books have no value at all, the caricature you describe does not exist.
+--- 21927081
+>>21926097
+also being high value is not manipulation, brushing teeth is not manipulating someone ffs
+--- 21927104
+>>21920168
+Why protect them tho?
+
+>>21923248
+Materialist jabberwocky.
+
+>>21923260
+And I say it in real life too, unlike terminally online zooms zooms I’m not afraid of confrontation
+--- 21927355
+>>21924698
+Most people don't write 4chan posts intra-coitus. Of course they don't have anything good to say about women.

lit/21915512.txt

@@ -169,3 +169,210 @@ Based
 --- 21923442
 >>21919867
 literally who
+--- 21923463
+>>21917746
+let me guess Reza Negarestani
+--- 21923475
+>>21923344
+
+Jesus Christ, you can't be serious. I have to bleach my eyes after reading those "worst take imaginable" tweets.
+--- 21923633
+>>21923463
+Literally the definition of twitterphilosophy. I, no shit, was introduced to Negarestani by a guy with an anime profile pic on twitter, in a thread about Nick Land and Rick and Morty. The platonic ideal of twitterphilosophy.
+--- 21923634
+>>21915512 (OP)
+Robert Kurz, but his texts and essays almost unknown in the anglosphere
+--- 21923640
+>>21917746
+Damn good bait, dynamic too - it unfolds after it has been taken, and reveals that the takers see the value of philosophy as a function of what social clique it belongs to, and not pursuit of truth or curiosity, which, hilariously, is exactly the mark of twitterphilosophy. You really do know your enemy, 10/10.
+--- 21923661
+>>21920856
+nice poem
+--- 21923679
+>>21921721
+>just a larper and aesthete
+just what OP asked for then
+--- 21923859
+how did he go from being a marxist in the 90s to afterwards becoming an extreme capitalist?
+--- 21923864
+>>21923859
+He's the first person in history to arrive at the logical conclusion of Marxism
+--- 21923885
+>>21923864
+
+The logical conclusion of Marxism is the abolishment of private property and the socialization of the relations to the means of production i.e. Communism.
+
+Anyone who doesn't believe in Communism is not Marxist, but a revionist or oportunist. Btw idiot and traitor Land could not predict AI and internet would destroy IP property rights.
+--- 21923899
+>>21923885
+lol tranny
+--- 21923913
+>>21923885
+The logical conclusion of Marx's conception of Capital is it unchaining itself from human labor and leaving humanity behind.
+--- 21923922
+>>21923899
+
+Takes one to know one, most trannies are right wing porn adicts, take a brake from wacking your dick all day, ok? Please do it for your parents. 
+
+
+>>21923913
+
+Idiot, how will relations be social without human relations? Land doesn't understand time, his time is empty time. How can you have Capital without human labor time? Read Marx and not stupid memes, ok?
+--- 21923926
+>>21923640
+>truth 
+lol. Assmad dork with a roman/anime profile pic spotted.
+--- 21923931
+>>21915856
+>For example, I think Reza Negarestani had a lot of potential 15 years ago with his Cyclonopedia, but he's since abandoned such projects
+i was funny how Reza after writing all his nihilistic stuff proceeded to get really butthurt about Land being a boomer right winger on twitter, i guess nothing really matters, except racism
+--- 21923932
+>>21920442
+Are you retarded?
+--- 21923944
+>>21919867
+I've heard this too. I have two of his books
+--- 21923947
+>>21923931
+I've actually spoke to Reza and he compared me to a neo-Husserl
+--- 21923948
+>>21917462
+--- 21923952
+>>21923922
+>Read Marx
+Read something written since the advent of electricity
+--- 21923954
+>>21917462
+this one is pretty good too
+--- 21923958
+>>21917791
+nice b&
+--- 21923967
+>>21922258
+--- 21923972
+>>21923344
+he was fun before he trooned up, now he just posts trite drugged up shit after burning his brain on drugs and female hormones, his wife was qt though, not sure why he decided to troon, he doesn't even seem to get sexual enjoyment from it
+--- 21923985
+>>21923922
+>Idiot, how will relations be social without human relations? Land doesn't understand time, his time is empty time. How can you have Capital without human labor time? Read Marx and not stupid memes, ok?
+humans are just the kickstarter for AI, for Land AI and capitalism are exactly the same, just at some point humans become meaningless once the capitalist processes develop a silicon platform to self-propagate without human input, meanwhile humans are the platform in which it runs, but humans have not been in control for a while
+--- 21923992
+>>21923985
+I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Land would say humans have never been in control.
+--- 21924030
+>>21923992
+>Nick Land: I think it comes down, again, just to these very, very basic cybernetic diagrams to do with positive feedback. And one sort of image — it’s an entirely satisfactory image once it’s accepted that it is figurative — is a critical nuclear reaction. You have a pile of radioactive rods that are damped down by graphite containment rods, and you start pulling out those graphite rods, and at a certain point it goes critical and you get an explosion. It’s just absolutely — it’s not a metaphor — it’s a positive feedback process [laughs]. It just is a positive feedback process that passes through some threshold and goes critical. And so I would say that’s the sense [in which] capitalism has always been there. It’s always been there as a pile with the potential to go critical, but it didn’t go critical until the Renaissance, until the dawn of modernity, when, for reasons that are interesting, enough graphite rods get pulled out and the thing becomes this self-sustaining, explosive process.
+>So in a certain sense, a lot of the actual fabric, the social historical fabric, is actually a containment system. And I think that containment system had a failure mode in the Renaissance. Just to dip back into the hyper-ideological space for a minute, what the extreme kind of what I call “paleo-reactionaries” get right is that they they totally see that. I share nothing of their mournful affection for the medieval period, but I think they’re totally right to say that there was a catastrophic failure that unleashed this explosive process, and that is what modernity is from the perspective of the Ancien Régime. What any social system is for is to stop this nuclear pile going off. You look at Chinese civilization and you say, well, what is it really doing? What’s it for? From a certain perspective, it’s a capitalism containment structure that obviously worked better in this traditionalist sense than the European one. The European one was too fractured, it was subject to a whole bunch of wild, uncontrollable influences, and unprecedented feedback structures kicked off that no one was in a position to master in Europe.
+>And so we get capitalism and modernity in Europe, and capitalism and modernity is brought to China by Western gunboats. It’s not like they’re bringing a gift, what they’re bringing is … they’re coming to pull the [laughs] graphite containment roads out, you know, from outside. That’s what that process of Chinese modernization is. It’s a process of the indigenous Chinese process of containment being dismantled from outside until it then — obviously in a way that is no less spectacular than the one we’ve seen in the West — goes into this self-sustaining modernist eruption basically in the early 1980s.
+
+>https://vastabrupt.com/2018/08/15/ideology-intelligence-and-capital-nick-land/
+--- 21924082
+>>21915512 (OP)
+If you want something cutting edge you should get into my work. I've never written anything so my thoughts are the most obscure. 
+>What's anon thinking about?
+Who knows!
+--- 21924097
+>>21924030
+You're right, the word "control" has a sophisticated meaning. Humans can "control" by inhibiting positive feedback loops, but it would be inaccurate to say they "command" the process, which is what I think most people unfamiliar with accelerationism would envision when you say things like "capital is out of human control" and what I was intending to correct.
+--- 21924101
+Wodehouse
+--- 21924116
+>>21924097
+i guess you could say it was in control of human structures that could be if not controlled at least somehow comprehended or rationalized by humans, but at some scale after the positive feedback kicks in the structures become too inhuman to ever be comprehended
+--- 21924118
+let's check in with Marxist scholars
+--- 21924135
+>>21924118
+Zizek always impresses me with how far ahead of other Marxists he is.
+--- 21924142
+>>21924135
+he is begging to be invited back into polite society, his supply of 19yo undergrad pussy has probably dried up by now and his wife is nearing the wall. he probably won't be invited back though unless he troons up or something
+--- 21924149
+>>21924118
+>let's check in with Marxist scholars
+i can't, because
+>Become a member to continue reading this article.
+do you just want people to be outraged at the headline without reading the essay? have you read it?
+--- 21924150
+>>21924118
+Anyone got the full article? Shit's paywalled.
+--- 21924160
+>>21924149
+>>21924150
+he is been writing articles like that his whole career, it just repeats the liberal opinion of the day but tries to make it sound transgressive and radical, just choose any of this other articles
+--- 21924202
+>>21924160
+so, just to be clear, you post articles you haven't read as outrage bait for other people who will also not read them? i just want to establish that you are in fact a subhuman fucking insect person and then we can move on
+--- 21924238
+>>21924202
+cope and seethe, faggot, i don't need to read it to know what it says
+--- 21924268
+>>21924142
+Since when has he been kicked out of polite society?
+--- 21924350
+>>21915512 (OP)
+>>21915856
+The Miya kaliacc stuff was exactly what you're describing from ca 2019~2021 but they sold out a long time ago into NFT shilling and pedo shit
+--- 21924379
+>>21924268
+he was slowly cancelled after joking about wanting Trump to win, and after getting into a fight with a rich girl with red hair in an american university that likes to larp as a stalinist wearing clothes and everything, i'm not even joking, but forgot the video, he slowly stopped getting invited to The Guardian and publications like that, and became radioactive at some point
+
+funny he didn't cancelled for this
+>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7in9EhIbREY [Embed]
+--- 21924382
+>>21924350
+>but they sold out a long time ago into NFT shilling and pedo shit
+it was all that it was from the beginning, that indian guy was good at social media, but it was all re-hashes of Nick Land and Harari
+--- 21924594
+>>21924238
+Based dunning-Kruger retard
+--- 21924622
+>>21920442
+there will be no one alive in 2050
+--- 21924932
+>>21923932
+maybe, but what exactly makes you ask this?
+--- 21925426
+>>21919858
+One of the greatest tweets ever
+--- 21925433
+It's still Mitchell Heisman
+--- 21926190
+>>21925433
+This guy will probably explode in popularity in the neo-pagan chud circles but they’re about at the opposite pole from the Land people I would think. I don’t really know that side very well, NRX people make fun of “the longhouse” and fascist primitivism/anti-modernism right? Although I gotta say Heisman’s seething hatred of Jesus is kinda unnerving
+--- 21926312
+The world is a simulation of a simulation of a simulation. Nothing is real, everything is hyperreal. History has ended with the triumph of liberal democracy and capitalism, but this is not a happy ending. Boredom, alienation, and oppression make it a nightmare. Only through irony, humor, and art, can we create our own reality and escape this prison.
+--- 21926471
+>>21926190
+>NRX people make fun of “the longhouse
+
+makes sense because the longhouse analogy only makes sense when you´re living in a real matriarchy, not some forced bullshit that´s only supported by feminists
+--- 21926555
+>>21926312
+I don't know if aesthetics and entertainment is really going to solve anything if you believe what you just wrote about Baudrillard.
+
+This thread more generally. GEN X 90s cyber philosophy stuff is fucking shit. Fuck that go wear leather pants in some communications master's program with one shitty silver hoop earring you fucking clowns with wrap around shades
+--- 21926566
+>>21924135
+He began a full Liberal leftist. Zizek washed out
+--- 21926575
+>>21924118
+--- 21926768
+I feel like there are no modern philosophers. It's so over
+You would think with so many countless people alive today a few would stand out as thinkers of true merit, but the best can merely rehash much older thinkers at this point...
+--- 21926858
+>>21926768
+There's a phrasing for this, but it goes something like this: An author spends their whole life experiencing things and having time to think and all that energy goes into their first few works. Afterwards, the amount of ideas they have to work off of dwindle and unless they're a very good one trick pony, they'll fade out.
+History has played out similarly, all the greatest thinkers were from the past few 1000 years. Greatest writers, past few 100. Now there's nothing left to explore except the stars and AI simulated reality
+--- 21926889
+>>21926858
+People aren’t smarter with all the technology. We’re just bathing in constant instantaneous gratification, media and other fun stuff. There’s literally no reason to ever be bored. Just a lot of last men who don’t really understand the technology around them. Though I will say there’s tremendous potential for the average person, it’s just that you have to overcome so much temptation. It can be very hard for me to not just waste a bunch of time playing my favorite video game.
+--- 21926977
+>>21917746
+Based non-caster of pearls before swine.
+--- 21926996
+>aaaaaaaa I'm turning into a calculator I'm going insane
+Too worldly. People who ontologize tech fads are tiresome.
+--- 21927006
+>>21915923
+We weren't talking about you?

lit/21916276.txt

@@ -167,3 +167,35 @@ I included the relationship types in this updated list. There's a few F/D
 >nearly none of these are smutty garbage.
 
 Ok, which ones are really vile, so I can avoid reading them, thus preserving my almost childish innocence intact.
+--- 21923646
+>>21922362
+Just watch porn if you want to jerk off.
+--- 21924114
+>>21919544
+What's it about?
+--- 21924164
+>>21923646
+there isn't enough plot in porn
+--- 21924969
+test
+--- 21926116
+>>21916276 (OP)
+Build-up, tension, and most importantly unconditional love. the fact that you can show yourself how you really are to your family member and not only they will accept you but love you and support you even more and you will do the same for them.
+--- 21926220
+>>21917759
+Consent between persons is the worst thing the enlightenment ever conceived
+--- 21926529
+>>21926220
+t. Romanian town rapist
+--- 21926657
+>>21916276 (OP)
+Is there a way to do it through a series that isn't degenerate like GRRM. 
+
+I'm writing a series that is heavily inspired by Jung and the anima as well as just childhood psychosexuality, fear of intimacy, sexual guilt and so on, and I don't plan on writing the actual sex, but I want there to be an inevitable realization that the mother character and son end up becoming lovers, as the process of the anima becomes realized in Jungian fashion
+--- 21926674
+>>21926657
+>Is there a way to do something that at it's core is degenerate in a way that makes it not degenerate?
+While I know what you actually mean the answer is basically still no since fundamental no matter how squeaky clean and intellectual you make it it's still really degenerate.
+
+It be like trying to intellectualize eating shit or justify murdering children.
+You just have to deal with it being degenerate and tell the story you want to anyway.

lit/21917252.txt

@@ -217,3 +217,24 @@ https://www.cryonicscalculator.com/
 --- 21922555
 >>21921266
 Try Seneca's On the Shortness of Life
+--- 21923738
+>>21917252 (OP)
+Have sex. Unironically. Every religion and philosophy of the world is just incel cope and a distraction from your destiny as head of a family Have kids, raise them the best that you can and let go. When you get there, you will understand.
+--- 21923936
+>>21917252 (OP)
+Do a large ayahasuca dose, you can experience what it'll be like without actually dying.
+--- 21925090
+>>21923738
+Why pass on the burden of existence if its all cope and distraction anyway gay ass world
+--- 21925222
+Reasons and Persons - Derek Parfit
+--- 21925240
+>>21917252 (OP)
+I was going insane panicking for hours everyday about the idea of death earlier this year. I read a lot of books to try to cope but the only thing that helped me get over it was meditation.
+--- 21925451
+>>21922511
+>there's a chance you will be resurrected in the future and get to become the indefinitely tortured plaything of an immortal being.
+ftfy, you should really just take your chances with death
+--- 21926809
+>>21917252 (OP)
+Life is the death we lived along the way.

lit/21917809.txt

@@ -235,3 +235,233 @@ That's most comment sections on YouTube though. They're bot accounts to steal yo
 --- 21922199
 >>21922188
 Even if the dude was a dyed wool red Leftist, it would still happen. Once you get to the upper echelons of YouTube popularity it just turns into crabs in a bucket.
+--- 21923502
+>>21922182
+>chud
+Oh you're one of those people.
+--- 21923521
+>>21917854
+Can you post it?
+--- 21923527
+>>21917851
+Really? I thought he was catholic.
+--- 21923563
+>>21917968
+>edutainment is the new drug
+Any books about this?
+--- 21923655
+Wendigoon is epic content, him and wagner are what get me through the pain of having been catfished and sucked on the penis by a man
+--- 21923657
+>>21918276
+suttree
+--- 21923681
+>>21921958
+>first 2 seconds sounds like he's talking in a bathroom
+Closed. This dude needs to learn how to edit audio
+--- 21923753
+>>21917809 (OP)
+im not watching any of this guy's videos but i saw he made a video about no longer human
+i think gatekeeping is good and youtube videos explaining shit like this are very very bad
+it leads to armies of redditors who think they understand everything when really all they know is the opinions youtubers have
+--- 21923765
+>>21918267
+Synchronicities might be a product of quantum entanglement, at least according to this guy who might be a pseud.
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1_GlpJTsys [Embed]
+--- 21924128
+>>21923502
+I’m using it ironically. I’d probably be a chud according to some leftists
+--- 21924133
+>>21917809 (OP)
+ffs
+--- 21924157
+>>21923765
+I think synchronicities are a result of causation working differently in the atemporal. Th ere is clearly a form of what we would want to call temporality within the supertemporal, but it does seem to be able to see the "whole" temporal at once or something.
+--- 21924159
+>>21918637
+Do tell
+--- 21924343
+>>21917809 (OP)
+This guy has 2.5m subs and I've never heard if him.
+--- 21924376
+>>21921958
+--- 21924383
+Stop seething over normies. Waste of your life.
+--- 21924432
+>>21924376
+I say this
+--- 21924437
+>>21923753
+>i think gatekeeping is good and youtube videos explaining shit like this are very very bad
+>it leads to armies of redditors who think they understand everything when really all they know is the opinions youtubers have
+That's basically the world now
+--- 21924498
+>>21923681
+Was going to mention this. The man is making six figures a month from YouTube and has the audio of an amateur blogger yelling about gamergate.
+>Blue Yeti in the wrong cardioid setting
+>microphone is 5 feet away from him
+>entirely untreated room
+>audio was recorded so low that, when boosted, you get a constant hiss from the Blue Yeti's self noise
+>audio is poorly normalized. Too low for Youtube's standards
+The fact that all of these issues can be solved simply by moving the mic closer to his face, flicking a single switch on the mic, and a half dozen clicks in Audacity is infuriating. Though, on the other hand, there's a profound amount of SOVL in the fact that there's still such a massive audience for these 2014 quality videos.
+--- 21924524
+>>21922188
+>I g0T @ SuPr1S3 F0r Y0u!!!!"
+I wonder why they write like that? does YouTube have some sort of detection ai that shuts down channels with similar phrases or do they write in this fashion to make themselves sound quirky. echoing an ancient cultural deity from the aughts, that many worshiped and despised; à la t3h PeNgU1N oF d00m. either way I find it uncanny, like a humanoid wearing the loose skin of it's victim, flailing its arm for 'help' to attract a new prey; only to just sink its teeth right in their jugular.
+--- 21924821
+>>21917854
+Lying retard. He wasn't crying about Jews being insulted. He was crying about Jesus saying "Father, forgive them", which any Christian would cry about.
+--- 21924828
+>>21922069
+Holy shit, you're retarded.
+--- 21924862
+>white race is dying but we must gatekeep the last vestiges of literary culture to the white masses because I'm a perpetually angry tranny embittered by my lack of accomplishments and self-worth
+Divide & Conquer bullshit. Sage
+--- 21924912
+>>21918268
+https://youtu.be/HpxN4N7AT2Q [Embed]
+
+I like this guys. He has a good interpretation of the ending although I think it could be refined a bit more
+--- 21924917
+>>21924828
+I don't use youtube as much as you do zoom zoom fucking sue me
+--- 21925040
+>>21924912
+Good video.
+--- 21925047
+>>21917809 (OP)
+Why the fuck would anyone watch/listen to some faggot's video essay? What do you have to gain?
+--- 21925054
+>>21925047
+entertainment, intellectual equivalent of popcorn. Passing time.
+I'd listen to this guys five hour dissertation in the dead of summer with the air conditioner on and some actual goyslop while doing whatever.
+--- 21925198
+>>21925047
+
+Well for one he can help people understand why an adaptation of the story has been very difficult to get right, as he mentions that aside from the violence the messages and themes of the book would be really hard to get right in a faithful adaptation.
+
+Which would be a lot more appreciated if someone manages tk get it right. 
+
+To be able get a lot of people in the same page is not nothing.
+--- 21925241
+>>21918437
+I see him as a manifestation of humanity itself. All our traits, positive and negative, cobbled together into one horrific, supernatural being.
+--- 21925386
+>>21917854
+evangelicals in america are slaves to jews
+--- 21925660
+>>21919834
+But protestants are not Christians.
+--- 21925665
+>>21917854
+The canonical books talk bad about jews. Do protestants actually read their bibles? lol. No. Do they even use the right bible? No. How many books are in your heresy?
+--- 21925715
+>>21917809 (OP)
+I'm watching the video right now and he is just narrating the story. I'm enjoying it. If I had picked up the book I would never be able to enjoy it in the same way. English is not my native language and it is incredibly easy to get lost when reading. I'm Portuguese so I would guess it would be similar to someone reading Saramago while not having Portuguese as a native language. Some books are hard, not to read, but to capture and comprehend. A lot gets lost in translation, and when someone breaks down what was just said I am able to fully understand what actually happened. That being said I do plan on getting the book and reading it.
+--- 21926165
+>>21918600
+Lol, king charles has been banging on about guenon for years.
+--- 21926250
+I like wendigoon, his videos are comfy
+--- 21926277
+>>21924821
+wrong 
+>>21925665
+I'm not protestant. He was doing a video about the non-canonical books.
+--- 21926286
+>>21918047
+boy, when you get older you'll realize that everyone can take a shit but it takes a real man to say something beneficial
+--- 21926304
+>>21917854
+>>21924821
+>>21926277
+link to video pls
+--- 21926399
+>>21926304
+I found it myself:
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idqPwX1XQOg [Embed]
+54:38
+--- 21926403
+>>21926304
+The Lost Books of the Bible
+--- 21926441
+psuedo intellectuals are gatekeeping words by faggots.
+
+call me a PI call you want, i still am going to do some cool shit.being labeled a "pseudo-intellectual" is often used as a dismissive insult to discredit someone's ideas or intelligence without actually engaging with them
+--- 21926485
+>>21925660
+>noooo, please stop treating catholics as evil and ungodly creatures, we've reformed I sweeear
+--- 21926491
+I don't read books but I watch pewdiepie review them
+--- 21926530
+>>21921958
+>almost a million views in 24 hours
+now that the normies are discovering Blood Meridian, what will be the new 2edgy4you book for /lit/ to circler endlessly?
+--- 21926588
+>>21926530
+Big Dimes McCarthy was always famous. This is no big deal. Probably will have to deal with a few more bad normie takes but nothing too much i guess.
+--- 21926609
+>>21926588
+normies had their own McCarthy book (The Road) and were contained, now they are going to post about this book without having actually read it.
+--- 21926676
+>>21926609
+
+You realize the 5 hour runtime is gonna filter those who were never gonna read it in the first place?
+
+You can rest easy knowing your sense of superiority is safe from the "normies"
+--- 21926784
+>>21917809 (OP)
+bud, blood meridian is shit anyway:
+
+>the gang shot the man
+>and then the blood spilled
+>and then they scalped him
+>and then and then and then
+>and then rape and dead babies, damn we just got edgy in this bitch. too cool for school
+>and then they dead guy got up and did the Harlem shake
+>and then the judge said "how can mirrors be real if our eyes aren't real?"
+--- 21926786
+>>21926784
+
+Yeah man you could write a better book.
+--- 21926876
+>>21921972
+Why do they talk like that?
+
+>>21921973
+>>21922054
+Watch it in 1.5x or 1.75x speed.
+--- 21926930
+>>21924157
+I've thought a lot about all the synchronicities I've personally experienced and came to the conclusion it's just a bias of noticing something you've seen recently. There's millions of bits of information you see constantly, so there's bound to be some bits that match, thence synchronicity. It's just a matter of us not understanding the boatload of information being streamed into us. We're good at filtering and pattern matching the noise. I'm sure there's a word for this human error.
+--- 21926938
+>>21926676
+>the 5 hour runtime
+Yeah that will filter most normalfags luckily.
+--- 21926941
+>>21926676
+Clearly you don’t know about the zoomer and it’s hyper-autistic ability to multitask
+--- 21926946
+>>21918267
+Wow you watched the most popular transmission medium of the third most popular book in the world. What a coincidence
+--- 21926954
+>>21924157
+We NPCs all marched into a Wal Mart yesterday at about 3:09 PM the crowd was a door 2 door wall buster. God must be with us. Clearly this isnt a conapiracy by the banking system to turn the sabbath into a day to praise moloch. Noo its just an awesome mandela! ebola !! schizo !!!kawaii!!synchronicity maaaaan
+--- 21926963
+>>21918468
+>It’s the only modern thing I’ve read that feels comparable to the Bible or Iliad in the weight of its language.
+Embarrassing post. Just proves /lit/ has nothing over this guy.
+--- 21926966
+>>21926963
+Go seethe somewhere else midwit
+--- 21926972
+How long will it take for its goodreads ratings to drop now?
+--- 21926993
+>>21926966
+Your 4chan buzzwords don't fool me newfag
+--- 21927204
+>>21926993
+Hating Blood Meridian is the most newfag thing on /lit/, retard
+--- 21927224
+>>21917809 (OP)
+We need five maybe seven threads of Blood Meridian at any one time. Now look at the name field.

lit/21917939.txt

@@ -91,3 +91,45 @@ Thank you to the anons who shilled his commentary. It's been incredibly insightf
 --- 21923340
 >>21923337
 the fella in question
+--- 21923678
+>>21923337
+As one of the shills, one criticism I have is that he picks idiosyncratic senses of words to make certain passages feel unfamiliar and extend their meaning, but also pulls straight from the KJV text and marginalia. DBH's New Testament was translated to be consistently unfamiliar, for comparison. I don't think it detracts from the translation and much of his interpretation is mainstream Jewish exegesis straight from Rashi, but it's noticeable when he's trying to diverge and when the KJV had it right. I do like what it does for the poetry. Someone who name drops Gerard Manley Hopkins is alright in my book.
+
+I think in addition to pointing out where the text is vague and the transcriptions are poor or contentious, his translation philosophy is outside the norm. On the one hand you have committees trying to "accurately" translate an Inspired work, on the other you have scholars approaching it as a redacted anthology. Alter assumes that it is a literary work that is intentionally vague and ambiguous for effect tries to retain that. He's familiar with it as a rhetorical work steeped in centuries of appended commentary that suggest interpretations for the reader to chew on. 
+
+As I was reading it, I noticed more clearly all the devices you find in oral storytelling the world over. The repetition, asides, different cadences and pauses that define a pace. That's what I think most modern translations are missing.
+--- 21923682
+>>21923337
+>or simply can't be translated because the meaning of the Hebrew is lost
+is this really that common?
+--- 21923730
+>>21923682
+Let's say you have a word, QDSh, that can be read as qadosh, qadash, qedesh and qodash. Qodash is really obscure and used once in another text in a context that isn't very clear either. Or, someone copied QRSh as QDSh because D and R look similar. Or you have a string of jewrunes in a phrase that could be a Name, Place or mean "spread camel dung" depending on how you break it up into individual words, while all of the above also apply. 
+
+The only two mentions of halitsah are judges 14.19 and 2 samuel 2.21. Only two translations I'm aware of identify it as armor. Samson killed 30 armed men and took their armor. The poetry of Job and some of the prophets is also laden with difficult language and crux words that aren't used anywhere else. It's pretty common but most translations are literally and figuratively glossed over or copy what an earlier translation used.
+--- 21924464
+>>21922760
+That's not an effortpost. Make 3 long posts about how genesis heralds the ideals and failings David represents and how the books before Samuel set up the world and people he will lead.
+--- 21925056
+>>21922760
+For me it's Nimrod
+--- 21925070
+>>21923682
+Semites didn't use written vowels
+--- 21925071
+I had no idea what Passover actually was until reading Exodus a few days ago. Isn't that a pretty evil, pernicious thing to celebrate?
+And what is God's problem with yeast?
+--- 21925135
+>>21925071
+Quickbread is quick and yeast can get you drunk.
+--- 21925578
+>>21925071
+No, celebrating the liberation of your people is not evil, nor is it pernicious.
+>And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the Lord brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.
+--- 21926338
+bump
+--- 21926527
+Pouring one out for Nadab and Abihu; the absolute morons.
+--- 21926916
+>>21926527
+pour out a whole bottle for jephtah's stupid ass

lit/21917984.txt

@@ -122,3 +122,162 @@ I’m really keen on Rienzi but the objective answer is Tristan
 Not to be pedantic, but Wagner admired and studied Shakespeare a great deal but his dramas are very different from Shakespeare's. Beethoven--well you could say Wagner picked up where Beethoven left off but Wagner's music is very original so it seems wrong to call his Music "Beethovenian"
 --- 21923130
 I think Parsifal and Tristan. But for personal reasons I haven't listed to Tristan in a long time, but I remember how powerful it can be.
+--- 21923486
+Tristan and Parsifal are deeply related. Wagner even considered having Parsifal (the character) appear in the third act of Tristan und Isolde. Between act II and III of Parsifal, there's a timeskip in which Parsifal travels the world and does good deeds to redeem himself. One of those adventures would bring him to Tristan.
+
+Thematically the operas are about two sides of the same Schopenhauerian coin. In both operas sexual desire leads to suffering: Tristan and Isolde long for death, where they can finally become one (as the world of Day (Representation) is only illusory and marked by the principium individuationis - T & I desire to become one but the world as Representation literally does not allow that, they need to become pure Will in death, Night, where they can be one) and in Parsifal Kundry's kiss awakens sexual feeling in Parsifal and gives him knowledge of the significance of the Grail ritual. But he needs to be cleansed and become chaste again in order to be able to find Montsalvat again: hence the time skip between act II and III.
+
+So in a way, these two operas are one and the same, tackling the same theme, starting from the same foundation (Schopenhauer) but taking a different way to get to their destination. Parsifal renounces the Will and attains peace, Tristan und Isolde tragically embrace it, and die.
+--- 21923636
+>>21923486
+Well said, sir.
+--- 21923737
+>>21917984 (OP)
+unironically what is the proper way of engaging with his work when you're too poor for going to real opera theater? just listening to his music?
+--- 21923745
+>>21923737
+Buy DVDs. There are stagings in the 80s of the operas as close to Wagner's actual vision as possible, and they have English subs. Modern productions tend to be modernizing and they're a horrible way to get to know these operas.
+I'm sure you can also pirate these productions btw, but I haven't found them anywhere. I paid $120 for a box set of my favorite Ring production and it was money well spent, as was the $50 for a Parsifal DVD. I saw Tristan und Isolde 3 times live now, first two times were great, third time was horrible (minimalist Eurotrash experimental production.) Just stick to the DVDs.
+--- 21923853
+>>21923120
+I'm taking it from the man himself, though I'll admit that his works aren't precisely Shakespearian or Beethovenian, but I think the same general substance of them is present in Wagner. He's off doing his own thing for sure, but the influence of both can be plainly felt throughout his work.
+--- 21923890
+>>21923737
+>>21923745
+The Metropolitan Opera has a streaming service and they have some great Wagner productions, old and new. Costs something like 15$/month
+--- 21923933
+>>21923486
+Wagner's dramas aren't just an allegory for Schopenhauerian metaphysics. You can't 1:1 them to Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung unless you think they're no deeper than an article. Besides, Wagner himself said Tristan was his most tragic subject since 'in it Nature is hindered in its highest work'. Siegfried is the affirmation of the Will, the 'Greek' view.
+
+The problem with most interpretations of Wagner is that no one considers how the seemingly contradictory elements of Wagner are harmoniously related in the last period of his life, and so they try to find an exact Schopenhauerian orthodoxy to fit everything into.
+--- 21923939
+>>21923933
+No, most people agree Wagner added his own elements to his reading of Schopenhauer. He thinks differently from Schopenhauer about the subject of romantic/sexual love for example. This does not change the fact that Wagner wrote Tristan as a direct response to a flurry of inspiration he received upon reading WWR 4 times in a single summer.
+--- 21923990
+>>21923933
+>Wagner's dramas aren't just an allegory for Schopenhauerian metaphysics
+Nobody ITT said they were.
+>Die Welt als Wille und Vorstellung
+Pretentious retard detected. Stopped reading right there. (If German, disregard the last comment.)
+--- 21923999
+>>21923939
+>This does not change the fact that Wagner wrote Tristan as a direct response to a flurry of inspiration he received upon reading WWR 4 times in a single summer.
+This isn't entirely true. He had planned the main outlines of the drama before having read Schopenhauer. Wagner never believed he went outside the main themes of the original poem.
+--- 21924016
+>>21923999
+I can't confidently say I know the timeline of Tristan's creation well enough to dispute this, even though I remember it differently. IIRC, he read Schopenhauer sometime between composing/writing Siegfried and Götterdämmerung. 
+Of course he never considered himself going "outside the main themes of the original poem." Why would he? He saw the myth of Tristan as a good vehicle for his Schopenhauerian ideas. Same with Parsifal and Meistersinger.
+--- 21924026
+>>21923999
+>>21924016
+Adding to my post, he of course had many ideas that he later found reflected again in Schopenhauer, that's the main reason why he was so impressed with him. Holländer for example also has many Schopenhauerian themes even though he had never heard of Schopenhauer at that point.
+It's the same with Schopenhauer and Buddhism. He actually conceived of his main ideas before encountering Buddhism, but he was all the more impressed by Buddhism because of that, and subsequently took some ideas and integrated it into his own philosophy.
+--- 21924040
+>>21923990
+>Nobody ITT said they were.
+That's what they become when the first thing word on them is Schopenhauerian metaphysics. Rather than the eternal subjects themselves. 'Tristan is about wanting to collapse the principium indivuationis because the essence of the phenomenal world is ceaseless striving' is the most abstract description possible and not at all how Wagner viewed his dramas.
+
+>>21924016
+He didn't see any of his dramas as a 'vehicle' for ideas. On the contrary he found in Schopenhauer a clarification and elucidation of his dramatic conceptions.
+
+>>21924026
+The question then is why simply constrain these themes to 'Schopenhauerian'? Anymore than we do a Shakespearian drama.
+--- 21924045
+>>21924040
+>He didn't see any of his dramas as a 'vehicle' for ideas.
+On the contrary, in his essays around the Parsifal era he is very clear: art should serve a societal function, take the place of religion if religion fails (which he thought it did.) Art is very much not a goal in itself for Wagner. That was also true before his late period: he conceived the Ring tetralogy in the manner of Greek tragedy, which served a political/social function.
+>The question then is why simply constrain these themes to 'Schopenhauerian'?
+I'm not constraining anything, it's just that Schopenhauer's influences on Tristan (and Parsifal) are very obvious and you cannot really understand these operas without him. The whole symbolism of Night and Day in the libretto of Tristan is simply Will and Representation.
+--- 21924049
+>>21924016
+Not that guy, but contributing somewhat to the conversation, I remember reading that Wagner's Ring Cycle took considerable time to finish and its composition went through all of Wagner's philosophical phases, starting with Bakunian, to Feuerbachian to Schopenhauerian, and that didn't stop Wagner himself from considering (or retconning if you will) the Ring Schopenhauerian because that was his mature philosophy. So likewise, he may have had the idea for Tristan before he became fully Schopenhauerian and the final project still be Schopenhauerian at least in the way he executed (or at least skewed) the initial idea.
+What are the Schopenhauerian themes in Meistersinger? I always thought that the opera was a break from all the philosophy.
+--- 21924052
+>>21924040
+>not at all how Wagner viewed his dramas.
+Except that's exactly how he viewed them? Have you read his essays?
+--- 21924062
+>>21924049
+He made some last-minute changes to the ending of Götterdämmerung under the influence of Schopenhauer yes, but the early parts are inspired by his anarchist leanings. Like any good work of art, it's a mix of different influences, that's what makes it so alluring. It's not just propaganda for Schopenhauer (or Bakunin, or Feuerbach.) Just like Parsifal is not just propaganda for Christianity or Buddhism or Schopenhauer.
+>What are the Schopenhauerian themes in Meistersinger? I always thought that the opera was a break from all the philosophy.
+The redemptive power of music. 
+Tristan: sexual desire and yearning cause suffering
+Parsifal: escape suffering by renouncing the Will
+Meistersinger: music allows temporary escape
+--- 21924270
+>>21924045
+>On the contrary, in his essays around the Parsifal era he is very clear: art should serve a societal function, take the place of religion if religion fails (which he thought it did.) Art is very much not a goal in itself for Wagner. That was also true before his late period: he conceived the Ring tetralogy in the manner of Greek tragedy, which served a political/social function.
+The only 'functions' Wagner thought art should serve is through its essence in and for itself. It's difficult to describe just how anathema giving a 'function' to his art would have been to him if you haven't read his Zurich writings. Art is ascribed an almost metaphysical essence above everything else. In this Zurich period his whole revolutionary conception was driven by an ideal society in which art was the end goal, just as much as he thought art should guide the revolution to this ideal society. It's mostly the same in his last period, art should preserve religion because it presents religious revelation in and for itself. He even jokes that from the politician's perspective his ideas are useless.
+
+>The whole symbolism of Night and Day in the libretto of Tristan is simply Will and Representation.
+The symbolism which is found in Novalis' Hymnen an die Nacht that was an important influence on Tristan? These are eternal concepts which are very often more confused by a framing in Schopenhauerian language than explicated. Wagner never, not once in his whole life, described night and day as Will and Representation. Doesn't that tell you something? Certainly being familiar with Schopenhauer helps explain Wagner's dramas, but it's not necessary. One could understand everything in Tristan after reading Strassburg's poem.
+
+>>21924052
+I have, and his discussion of his dramas under Schopenhauerian philosophy does nothing to change what I have said.
+
+>>21924062
+>Tristan: sexual desire and yearning cause suffering
+>Parsifal: escape suffering by renouncing the Will
+>Meistersinger: music allows temporary escape
+Simple one line descriptions of Wagner's dramas through Schopenhauer's philosophy is exactly what is wrong with Wagner interpretations. And when one person hears them they just promulgate them without end until someone else takes up the habit and there is a culture of interpretation which never really thinks about the artworks. Meistersinger, for example, is just as much about the social role of art, social belonging, the relation of the erotic to art and creativity, German culture, the role of the critic, the transition from feudal to burgher culture, the difference between old age and youth, and a lot more, as it is about the release from the world that art grants. I say art because the focus isn't on music in particular and neither in Schopenhauer or Wagner is music the only art that allows a release from the world. Each Wagner drama contains a thousand intersecting themes, the result of Wagner's drive for totality.
+--- 21924416
+Tannhauser, Ring, or Parsifal.
+--- 21925018
+I wish there were more filmings of Wieland's Bayreuth.
+ 
+https://youtu.be/PsHtqVTJ_6k?t=1365 [Embed]
+--- 21925041
+Do I read his works or watch them or listen to them or what?
+--- 21925051
+Mozarts operas mog Wagner’s
+--- 21925316
+Are there any novelizations of his operas, preferably not by post-1960s authors?
+--- 21925322
+>>21925316
+>post-1960s
+Make that 1940s.
+--- 21925382
+>>21919395
+Is this in a letter? Or his notebooks?
+--- 21925495
+>>21925382
+bruh, untimely meditations: wagner in bayreuth.
+but notebooks have a couple of interesting earlier draft versions
+--- 21925566
+My university library has a good sized selection of old opera productions on dvd; any great or definitive productions by Wagner or any other great composer I should seek out as basically a newfag to opera?
+--- 21925873
+>>21925566
+For DVD it’s Boulez/Bayreuther Festspiele and Levine/Met.
+--- 21925881
+I think after these the Wagner estate must have sold it’s soul and Wagner’s legacy as every other production is the same old deconstructionist garbage.
+--- 21925906
+I actually showed this to a zoomer friend of mine (not really a zoomer, I have younger friends as I went back to college late in life) and he was like: Woah, Thor has an opera?? I grinned.
+https://youtu.be/L_3HqF8Hebc [Embed]
+--- 21925955
+>>21925881
+>>21925906
+Levine's Ring is garbage. It doesn't matter what their inventions were it's garbage, the singing, costumes, conducting, acting, all of it. It doesn't matter if they spent a lot of money on it and tried (but failed) to be authentic. The Boulez Ring may be regietheatre but it's still head and shoulders above every other filmed Ring.
+--- 21926005
+Don Giovani
+
+https://youtu.be/5K-p_Lr9mUQ [Embed]
+
+
+Madama Butterfly
+
+https://youtu.be/3stgof-xyN0 [Embed] 
+
+
+A good ballet-as-film I recommend in Young Men, which is a movie about WWI told through ballet. Here is a scene where a guy who can’t take it anymore tries to run across no man’s land to be a POW and gets stunned by a mortar shell near him; getting up, he continues, but a comrade from the trenches sets off to try to take him back
+
+https://youtu.be/ZbFsvBocxPg [Embed]
+
+1984 is also good if they have it
+https://youtu.be/jMclzcnorkk [Embed]
+--- 21926106
+>>21925041
+Listen to the overtures and preludes, plus the individual famous pieces like Siegfried's Funeral March, then listen to the full opera of whichever ones you liked most. Reading the text along with the music is also essential, and a lot easier than you might think. Up to you if you want to listen to the music and read, or watch a production with subtitles, depends how good your imagination is.
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ch227pV-A0&list=PLBrs-r77FPJLEYSLxTyjCs2mNRjrLrWWK [Embed]
+
+A good playlist with some of the more famous pieces from the Ring.

lit/21918501.txt

@@ -149,3 +149,147 @@ Oh no, not a world filled with magic and wonder teaching a child to be curious a
 --- 21922888
 >>21922805
 How will hp haters ever recover
+--- 21924191
+>>21922805
+Bump just for this post.
+--- 21924220
+>>21922805
+>see past wealth and status
+>protagonist is one of the most known and well-regarded mages with a bank full of gold.
+Sorry?
+--- 21924245
+>>21922805
+you mean a book about how you're the specialest special guy and any minute now someone will knock on your door to tell you you were secretly the most important person in the world this whole time, and also a millionaire? the kind of dishonest revisionism you're practicing would work better if we didn't already have a whole generation of kids raised on these books who are in fact fucking terrible and barely functional people. do the millennials typically "see past wealth and status," you think? are they known to "discover their own path"? do they "place trust in quality people"?
+--- 21924248
+>>21924220
+Who were the protagonists closest friends, anon? I also remember a certain defense against the dark arts teacher in year two. What was his relationship like with the protagonist?
+--- 21924254
+>>21924245
+You think millennials have wealth and status? That's a funny joke. Also Harry wasn't the specialest boy to ever live. It could have easily been Neville. Read the flicking books if you're going to screech out opinions about them
+--- 21924301
+>>21924254
+>You think millennials have wealth and status? That's a funny joke.
+that's not what i wrote and it's irrelevant what they "have" because your argument was about perception. i repeat the question: do millennials typically "see past wealth and status"? do millennials typically "discover their own path"? do millennials typically "place trust in quality people"? these are the most popular books in the world so if they really develop these qualities in their readers then it should be easy to demonstrate. since the release of the first book, have young people become more individualistic, or less? more resistant to the superficial, or less? better judges of character, or worse? i remind you, a whole generation was absolutely obsessed with these stories. is that what they learned from them?
+--- 21924316
+>>21924301
+Okay, let's unpack that. How the fuck do you see past something you haven't experienced? Also, the books aren't the only thing that happened in the past 30 years. Internet took society by storm and it too had an impact on the population. It's retarded for you to Fee-fi-fo-fum into the thread to judge the book's influence in a vacuum. It show one-dimensional thinking.
+--- 21924324
+>>21918629
+I'm a Zoomer and every single film was released in theaters throughout my whole childhood. I simply don't understand this angry autistic obsession people like you have with needing to have Zoomers NOT enjoy or experience the same things you did. Is it because you're afraid you're like them? Why? Are you literally retarded?
+--- 21924327
+>>21918501 (OP)
+no it's satanic
+--- 21924388
+>>21918501 (OP)
+The first two books are okay, quality-wise.
+The first one got translated into Latin and Ancient Greek even, so it's has its uses as an easy and more-or-less entertaining bilingual reading material.
+
+The rest of the books are disappointing shit, though.
+--- 21924391
+>>21924316
+>Okay, let's unpack that. How the fuck do you see past something you haven't experienced?
+to teach you lessons about what you might have not personally experienced is the whole point of a book. how can you claim harry potter teaches positive things to children if you don't believe in teaching without direct experience? you're just saying random shit.
+
+>Also, the books aren't the only thing that happened in the past 30 years. Internet took society by storm and it too had an impact on the population. It's retarded for you to Fee-fi-fo-fum into the thread to judge the book's influence in a vacuum. It show one-dimensional thinking.
+okay so let's try to reduce these extra "dimensions:" how do people relate to harry potter stories when they refer to them specifically, such as when they compare public figures to voldemort or whatever? do you find that this is done in such a way that it facilitates "finding your own path," looking past the surface to judge character accurately and so on? or does it facilitate groupthink and superficial judgement?
+
+i remind you that you're the one making the claim that the books impact children positively, so when you now say that it's actually impossible to tell what the books have done to millennial children because, like, the world is super complicated and stuff, you're just backing out of your whole argument. but i do think you can tell what books do to people by simply observing how those people talk and think and i find that avid harry potter readers, yourself included, talk and think like fucking retards.
+--- 21924423
+The worldbuilding was cool but I could not care less about the dumb fuck that is Harry. My children will be reading Narnia and Tolkien. Hell, even The Golden Compass is better than this.
+--- 21924426
+>>21924391
+A lesson is worth fuck all without experience. This is why there are problems to solve after a lesson in school. You're equivocating.
+>how do people relate to harry potter stories when they refer to them specifically, such as when they compare public figures to voldemort or whatever? do you find that this is done in such a way that it facilitates "finding your own path," looking past the surface to judge character accurately and so on? or does it facilitate groupthink and superficial judgement?
+Cool strawman I just hope when you finally get to see the wizard he'll have two brains to give out. Of course, the solitary example that's given when people compare a public figure to the villain demonstrates groupthink and superficial judgment. Also, the problem isn't that your thinking is too complicated so I don't understand why you're reducing anything. The problem is your thinking is too simple as in you're not considering what effects the internet is causing to influence the behavior you're talking about.
+>i remind you that you're the one making the claim that the books impact children positively
+Yes.
+>when you now say that it's actually impossible to tell what the books have done to millennial children
+That's not what I said. I said other things, such as the internet, have a bigger influence than the book. We're not talking about the bible. People who read Moby Dick still obsess about dumb shit. That doesn't mean it's a shit book, just a weaker force than human compulsions. 
+>and i find that avid harry potter readers, yourself included, talk and think like fucking retards.
+That's adorable. Compared to you I am fucking quantum computer.
+--- 21924481
+>>21918501 (OP)
+Nah. So many other authors and kids stories to tell. Don't need my kid getting hooked to an antisemitic terf.
+--- 21924548
+>>21924426
+>A lesson is worth fuck all without experience. This is why there are problems to solve after a lesson in school. You're equivocating.
+so your point is that harry potter WOULD have taught millennials to "see past wealth" except its lessons only work if they are followed by an "experience" of wealth, and the millennials didn't have enough of that? like, you will learn to see past wealth if you read harry potter AND THEN become a millionaire? it would not be a very good teaching tool even if that was true.
+
+>Also, the problem isn't that your thinking is too complicated so I don't understand why you're reducing anything.
+i wasn't saying my thinking is complicated, my thinking is simple: that people reveal what books have taught them with their behavior. the "complexity" problem was yours, that the world is too complex to judge the impact of harry potter, so i'm "reducing" the complexity by looking specifically at how people apply the lessons of harry potter in real life. that's not a "strawman," you're using the word wrong, i have not invented a fake scenario of "harry potter reader compares politician to voldemort," this has objectively really happened a million times. on the other hand, your "what if moby dick readers were all out in public being super fucking retarded" is totally fictitious. they aren't. harry potter readers are. that's the actual impact of harry potter on culture and public life. you try to blame it all on the internet, but the internet happened to everyone and if harry potter fandom fostered a culture of considered, individual judgement then it would have been affected less by internet stupidity, not more.
+--- 21924627
+Alright, you underage faggots. I'll tell about Harry Potter from the perspective of someone who was 11 when the first book became available in the states, and therefore got to "grow up" with the series.
+
+Books 1 and 2 are ok. They're not great, but they're easy to finish, and book 2 is quite a lot better than book 1. Book 3 is when Rowling figured out the longer story she was trying to tell, it was the first book that felt like part of a series rather than a stand alone entry in these character's lives. Books 4 through 7 are of an exponentially increasing quality until the end. 
+
+It's astoundingly important for any non book media and opinions to be completely removed from your own assessment of the book series. The books contain absolutely none of the "controversy" surrounding the IP or the author. 
+
+Is it a timeless classic? Yes. As a series, it will always be worth the read, and it's quite a good series for young children to start and finish over a year or two.
+--- 21924728
+>>21924548
+>so your point is that harry potter WOULD have taught millennials to "see past wealth" except its lessons only work if they are followed by an "experience" of wealth
+Why'd you put experience quotes? You don't believe it to be an experience to be wealthy? And no, not "its lessons" all lessons require experience. Forget millionaires, if only we didn't have two global financial meltdowns at the very beginning and early middle of our employment journeys then perhaps we too would get to experience what it's like to be pretentious and look down on the poors. Correct.
+>it would not be a very good teaching tool even if that was true
+It's a children's fantasy novel. Judging it by ONLY on the merit of its teaching utility is asinine and only serves the purpose of making your "heh, no wonder you're not a millionaire, you read Harry Potter" point.
+> my thinking is simple
+I know. That's the problem. It's too simple because behaviors are formed by more than just the book you read. Other facts exist and they matter and to disregard is disingenuous. 
+>the "complexity" problem was yours, that the world is too complex to judge the impact of harry potter
+It's not TOO complex. It's just MORE complex than a single dimension. Even fucking lines have two points when you graph them. How is this breaking your mind?
+>i'm "reducing" the complexity by looking specifically at how people apply the lessons of harry potter in real life. that's not a "strawman i have not invented a fake scenario of "harry potter reader compares politician to voldemort," this has objectively really happened a million times
+It is a strawman and I am using it correctly. By setting up an argument with a single point that illustrates your narrative you're claiming that HP fans only extrapolated that one point from the books and no other perspectives exist. That misrepresents reality to create an easy argument for you to win therefore that is a strawman
+>on the other hand, your "what if moby dick readers were all out in public being super fucking retarded" is totally fictitious.
+You can't possibly be this fucking stupid. The point of the Moby Dick example was to illustrate that forces outside of lessons taught in books exist and sometimes they are stronger than the lessons.
+>that's the actual impact of harry potter on culture and public life.
+Yeah, in that one example you have. 
+>you try to blame it all on the internet
+I feel like I talking to a wall. More than one aspect of life shapes a person. Some forces are stronger than others. Why is this information not penetrating the barrier of your skull?
+--- 21924772
+>>21924388
+Could you elaborate? It's the opposite opinion of a lot of people here
+--- 21925469
+>>21924627
+3-5 are the only good books throughout, but 3 gets a miss because of the bullshit time travel plot. Rowling knew it was stupid too, as she never used it again from that point onward.
+--- 21925755
+>>21925469
+Yes, Rowling isn't clever enough to incorporate a clean version of time travel into the story. There's no way to write time travel without having it be an ever present facet of the world that's affecting literally everything all the time. Anything outside of that requires weird asspulls and nonsensical rules.
+--- 21925757
+>>21918501 (OP)
+no. A Series of Unfortunate Events is better
+--- 21926107
+>>21924245
+>ARE PEOPLE PERFECT? 
+>NO? 
+>WELL FUCK HARRY POTTER THEN! 
+The absolute state of Rowling derangement syndrome sufferers
+--- 21926112
+>>21924316
+>Also, the books aren't the only thing that happened in the past 30 years.
+Well said the guy you're talking to is a fucking retard for not thinking of this themselves lol
+--- 21926117
+>>21918620
+>tfw memories of being a little edgelord, reading warhammer 40k and Clive Barker novels and calling my mates poofters for being into poofter wizard books for babies
+--- 21926122
+>>21924388
+3 and 4 are better than 1 and 2 although 1 and 2 are very good 
+
+The series changes drastically starting with 5 and 6 is the best there. I don't think any of 5, 6, or 7 are as good as any of 1 through 4 but its also basically a different genre and the majority of fans I think like the later books more.
+--- 21926139
+>>21924548
+Sunlight influences children positively too anon but you don't see people going 
+>OH, SO WHAT HAS THE SUN DONE FOR US LATELY? 
+When people still have massive flaws. Lots of things are beneficial for children, and Harry Potter books are some of them. This argument you've constructed is incredibly stupid. The Narnia books are still bestsellers but you don't see perfect Pevensie-molded christ-children walking around all the time. That's not how things work.
+--- 21926145
+>>21924627
+Books 1, 2, 3, and 4 are great 
+Book 5 is okay 
+Book 6 is very good/great
+Book 7 is okay plus
+--- 21926178
+>>21924245
+To blame the failures of millenials on harry potter is pure schizophrenia. You might as well blame that one spongebob episode where he's instantly good at art. Go write an essay about how spongebob crippled an entire generation.
+--- 21926209
+>>21924324
+I've noticed this shit on 4chan increase so much over the last two years, its clogged discussion so much. Why the fuck are americans like this? Do people on the ground hate people because they're older or younger over there, or is it a 4chan retardation thing? I've seen it elsewhere online too so I guess not. It just looks so bizzare from the outside.
+--- 21926230
+>>21918609
+has Harry Potter really been forgotten by everyone under the age of 30?

lit/21918521.txt

@@ -67,3 +67,168 @@ Chudelope Hill spotted and noted
 --- 21923146
 >>21918521 (OP)
 Hoes? What hoes?
+--- 21923664
+>>21918521 (OP)
+Almost no one come to my house, so i don't fucking care. Also even if there were visits they wouldn't give a dammn about my books.
+--- 21923669
+>>21922677
+Has anyone here tried that?
+--- 21923677
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I am not concerned about the hoes ever seeing the inside of my apartment let alone my dubious taste in reading material.
+--- 21923731
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I turn the book called GREEK HOMOSEXUALITY backwards so its spine doesn’t show
+--- 21924269
+>>21922677
+>he still lives with his mom
+Really not surprising.
+--- 21924531
+>>21918521 (OP)
+nope, I like them to see that I am based and not like the mass of normies
+--- 21924575
+>>21918521 (OP)
+Yeah, my weird occult books. I've got an old hardcover about astrology and actually looks fucking cursed.
+--- 21924608
+>>21924575
+can you show it to us, anon?
+--- 21924635
+>>21924608
+Sorry, no camera. I refuse to buy a new phone until the one I have breaks.
+--- 21924640
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I employ the clever use of shelf decoration to hide the edgier books I have. Some people can’t handle the idea of even considering other perspectives. I have Das Capital right next to Mein Kampf.
+--- 21924905
+>>21920773
+Spoken like a true bookcel.
+>>21922292
+No reason to read him. Most ex-NSDAP members haven't anything of interest to say.
+>>21923134
+It cannot be helped. They print certain books that are either out of print or cost more than they're worth.
+--- 21924913
+>>21924905
+How did you get White Power and are any of Rockwell’s books worth reading?
+--- 21924991
+>>21924913
+I bought it on ebay, I also picked up "This Time The World."
+Yes. White Power shows you that it's been the same complaints and problems in America since the 1960's. (Although, technically earlier)
+It could be useful for anyone interested in modern politics, too. You can see a lot of complaints by modern american republicans. A lot of the same general pushing by the american democrats.
+I only just picked up This Time The World, so I haven't read it yet. So, no recommendation on that from me. It has been called his "magnum opus", but so has White Power.
+--- 21925055
+>>21924991
+Interesting. About what I figured it to be, sounds smarter than Siege. I’ll keep an eye out for it, then.
+--- 21925091
+>>21925055
+It is definitely better than SIEGE. I don't think James Mason is worth paying attention to, unless you want to get an idea of the foundation for fringe pro-violence groups (Atomwaffen, OONA, etc.). His outlook is very hollywood satanic-nazi. 
+While George Lincoln Rockwell was at least a respectable man who cared about the topic and had praxis. Whether one agrees or disagrees with him, he was a marketing genius who was honest and forthcoming about his worldview.
+There is one interesting characteristic about Rockwell. He is distinctly american. While most of the national socialists present their worldview with a "european" third positionist foundation, Rockwell somehow pushed it with a sort of "fair capitalism" foundation. That is to say, he took the economics, mostly, out of national socialism and only took the ethno-nationalist perspective with him. You might even be able to say that he may have been the first White Nationalist figure in american politics.
+--- 21925116
+>>21918521 (OP)
+--- 21925126
+>>21920722
+>keeping all your chud books on one shelf
+based
+--- 21925131
+>>21920170
+>Evola
+>K.B. McDonald
+
+Nice. You got lucky finding a girl who resonates with these
+--- 21925132
+>>21918521 (OP)
+No bitches come to my house :(
+--- 21925149
+>>21925126
+Technically, I have a 2nd "chud" shelf, I guess and I have some more eugenics books elsewhere, but I don't think a "chud" would read them.
+--- 21925169
+>>21925149
+Very nice
+--- 21925172
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I have a 10 million dollar house and never had a woman over. It amazes me people can afford to date or have the time to waste.
+--- 21925185
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I used to flip books around but now i don't have any books. It's all digital. Much better that way.
+--- 21925247
+>>21918521 (OP)
+When I didn't have shelfspace I kept them in boxes under my bed since it would look weird just having a random wall stacked with National Socialist books. Just moved and got a new shelf. Now I keep most on display but I have a whole bunch of more scholarly works so it looks fine (also just have way too many still). Most are also in the corner of the shelf so if I really have to I can always put something in front of it. I only keep some staked away like a collection of anti-semitic cartoons from der sturmer. When I lived at home my mom did find March of the Titans once though which was kind of funny.
+--- 21925291
+>>21925247
+>When I lived at home my mom did find March of the Titans once though which was kind of funny
+My copy was pretty much fucked out of the box. Something went wrong with the glue for the binding. Did you have the same issue?
+--- 21925301
+>>21925291
+Nope, I've had it for couple of years now and still all good. Actually have around 10 or so books from that guy's shop and none of them had any issue.
+--- 21925321
+>>21925301
+Damn, I was just unlucky, I guess. I did get it during a particularly hot summer. I'm thinking about having to rebind it myself.
+--- 21925323
+>>21925247
+please post your natsoc books, fren
+--- 21925334
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I have a copy of The Communist Manifesto that I only got because I like the art on the cover. I keep I behind my other books so no one thinks I actually read it.
+--- 21925407
+>>21919695
+>I'm not making this up
+>not even a single pic
+fuck off faggot
+--- 21925419
+>>21919695
+glow
+--- 21925564
+>>21925323
+(1/2)
+Keep in mind this is over the course of 5 or so years though, I also still need to read a few because sometimes you have to buy them if they are rarely for sale or if they get removed.
+--- 21925572
+>>21920722
+I kneel....
+--- 21925575
+>>21925564
+Compresses very badly for some reason.
+--- 21925583
+>>21925575
+Oh wow, I didn't expect to see Sombart. Few people ever even mention him here. This is a great collection, man. Nice!
+--- 21925606
+Comfy thread. Happy to see other NatSoc and third-positionist anons. 
+I have most of my books in my ereader.
+--- 21925615
+>retweets /=/ endorsement
+--- 21925621
+>>21925606
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgdS5HYgaGk [Embed]
+--- 21925735
+>>21918521 (OP)
+
+I only read pdfs, epubs, ebooks
+--- 21925739
+>>21925621
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJoDbyeg66A [Embed]
+--- 21925803
+>>21920722
+>hates modernity
+>buys paperbacks
+lol. lmao even.
+--- 21927077
+>>21918521 (OP)
+I don't allow harlots into my residence.
+--- 21927136
+>>21918525
+Actual Christian who owns Bjerknes’ writings, I used to follow him on twatter but it’s Putler lives rent free in his head so I ended up unfollowing him. (I don’t follow a specific orthodoxy though)
+--- 21927139
+>>21924269
+Maybe he’s Italian?
+--- 21927181
+>>21925606
+I’d have to go through my e-reader to see what I have, I think I have: Evola, Guenon, Feder, Gobineau, Grant, Proudhon, Junger, Mishima, Gentile, Maurras, Schmitt, a guide to Heidegger, Sombart, Spengler, Klages, Thriart, Faye, Venner, Nilsson, Hoppe (not 3rdpos but in the same ballpark), LaRouche, I think that covers it
+--- 21927270
+>>21920216
+damn straight
+
+i am a man with low self esteem and daddy issues though
+--- 21927275
+>>21920722
+but do you even lift bro?
+--- 21927295
+>>21918521 (OP)
+No. I am who I am, and am comfortable with that fact. Anyone who isn't okay with that, whether a man, a woman, a potential mate or friend or just an acquaintance, simply is not worth my time.

lit/21918725.txt

@@ -670,3 +670,808 @@ I think that it is all miscommunication because the assertions were never commun
 --- 21922328
 >>21922172
 Well, it was not summarized fairly, and that was plainly demonstrated once I posted the source text. Maybe you are in the wrong place. There are lots of places where you can go argue about source text without having actually read it. Go strawman elsewhere.
+--- 21923746
+>>21922289
+>There is no good reason to assume personhood, agency, or anything of the sort, despite how ever much you wish it to be so.
+--- 21923772
+itt: no one who has actually read the proslogion
+
+it was never an 'argument', the text is visionary and a calling to divine inspiration
+--- 21925103
+What did Heidegger think about the ontological argument? What would he have thought?
+--- 21925138
+>>21923772
+>it was never an 'argument'
+clearly
+--- 21925191
+>>21918956
+>>21918787
+>>21918886
+>>21919015
+>>21921439
+But we aren't talking about God as just some thing, we're thinking of God as a Greatest Conception, The Greatest Conception. If you don't believe in metaphysics then this will filter you. Metaphysically there has got to be a Greatest Thing/Conception. Believing that this isn't the case just means that you don't believe in metaphysics / anything beyond our reality, which is rediculous and makes you a retard. There are, for example, colours that we cannot see or visualise, so it's not hard to believe that there are concepts beyond our real of perception in a metaphysical sense. If anything it's way more likely than not, which is what makes atheist or marxian materialist so retarded. It is on this basis that Anselm makes his argument.
+--- 21925197
+>>21925191
+*atheism and materialism
+--- 21925350
+>>21925191
+I use equipment that views in the infrared band. I find your statement interesting. We are able to very accurately collect the infrared light and make use of it to generate an image from a scene that is absolutely black to the unaided human eye. Does using a tool like that qualify as physically piercing the veil into the metaphysical world? Is there a line between the physical and the metaphysical or is there a big, blurry grey zone between the two?
+--- 21925357
+>>21925197
+and that's all I need to know to not read your post
+--- 21925381
+>>21925350
+It's not really a convincing argument to say "we can't see some colors". a more realistic one would be that there are dimensions we can't perceive, but they've yet to be proven as far as i know.
+The idea of reductionism is that the rules confirm themselves, and the rest of reality reflects that.
+Some would say though everything is fractal going infinitely inwards but this makes no sense, if there's no base reality how can reality have a basis for existing?
+--- 21925385
+>>21925357
+How can you judge his post based on three words? There are very simple qualifiers that can turn those three words completely on end.
+--- 21925499
+>>21925385
+There is a minority chance that his post was arguing for those terms, but I highly doubt it. Those two terms stapled together like that has become a borderline meme among the tradlarp crowd here and on /his/.
+Not worth the price of reading a bunch of retardation if my hunch is correct.
+--- 21925529
+>>21925350
+What? Did you even read my post?
+--- 21925543
+>>21925381
+>there are dimensions we can't perceive, but they've yet to be proven as far as i know.
+You don't need to be a proofcel. Just use your logic. You're a human whose senses are bound in a material world and what's more by the human condition itself. It's just absurd to me that some people think that human perceptions are the end-all be-all.
+--- 21925577
+>>21918771
+The existence is predicate thing isn't even the most egregious part of the proof. He claims to have a proof that god exists based on the definition of god, goes on to define god as that-which-there-is-no-greater and then through some gymnastics, god defined this way must exist. Well no shit! You defined him as something that exists by lumping him in with that which there is!
+--- 21925595
+>>21925529
+>colours that we cannot see or visualise
+How far out does something need to be to qualify as metaphysical? Today's technology is yesterday's witchcraft.
+--- 21925596
+>>21925529
+I think what they mean is that nothing that can potentially be backed by empirical evidence can serve as proof that there is something beyond all empirical evidence that must most certainly exist.
+Even if something could be proven logically, there would be no reason to believe that this logical statement has ontological weight. Logic can prove whether any group of statements is consistent, and whether one contradicts another, but is not restricted to discussing real stuff. One may create perfectly sound chains of logical reasoning that abide by the rules of a fictional universe, such as, say, that of Final Fantasy, but the fact that any one statement itself is sound (that is to say, non-contradictory) does not grant it the power to summon fictional characters into being in our universe.
+
+If a computer programmer were to name a function in a program "car engine", then would it automatically summon a car engine into being that would be controlled by the function? No. The function would merely have the name of "car engine". That it could be used for the sake of controlling a real electronic circuit board adjacent to the car engine would be irrelevant to the function's very own contents and capacities.
+And if a program had a loop that will only close as soon as the number 0 is typed into the terminal, then will it necessarily close at some point? Not necessarily.
+
+
+So as you can see, logical lines of reasoning are only capable of being compared against statements that abide by the same principles, but have no power of declaring that something must necessarily be real, or that it must necessarily happen in our universe.
+--- 21925645
+>>21918725 (OP)
+>arguing about atheism in 2023
+
+Atheism as a movement is completely dead. They either need to come up with a replacement or allow one of the other non-cath/prot religions to proliferate. Those are the only two choices.
+--- 21925650
+>>21925543
+Perceptions prove that perceived phenomena are perceived. Whether they are actually so in themselves is a different matter altogether, but what is certainly undeniable is that a perception by itself proves that a phenomenon can be perceived by at least one person in the way it has been perceived.
+Logic can allow us to take premises and derive that such and such conclusion is inconsistent with such and such premises. The premise remains nothing but a premise regardless of how much confidence its speaker has on its ability to conform to ontological truth.
+Premises are useful for purely logical disciplines, such as law and mathematics. Lawmakers can invent any possible legal fiction that they can describe and attribute it characteristics that seem to be real. They can invent fictional corporations, bodies of people, diseases, units of measurement, and conditions, even at great detriment to the ruled. They simply need an agent of the law to declare something to fit the characteristics assigned to their fictitious concept and turn what was merely an exercise of the imagination into a cause for punishing the enemies of the state and rewarding those who are useful servants of the current government.
+
+Logic's ability to influence reality rests solely on humans' effective power. People do not need to believe something, but if they act as if it is, they can use the beliefs they claim to have to abuse others. Their claims, even if inconsistent with moral principles and accepted norms of others, cannot be refuted if built upon a solid base. These bases are independent of each and obey no master except for themselves. All that is necessary for a base to be self-complete is to ignore everything standing against it. Thus do lies become unquestionable truths made of sophistic wordplay.
+--- 21925676
+>>21921681
+If that’s the case why do you think you cannot reproduce except through man-made means?
+--- 21925692
+>>21925645
+The replacement for Rick and Morty style edgy atheism is coming soon. It will be some sort of panpsychism mixed with "information theory," put together by some reddit geniusretard. It will advertise itself as being anti-reductionist and anti-materialist, as the real, secret, hardcore philosophy for real knowers, but it will really just be vulgar materialism 2.0 with some machine learning jargon thrown in about how consciousness is just [insert buzzword] and a few Carl Sagan "we're all star-stuff" memes like "actually, even [insert thing] is conscious, technically speaking!" 
+
+It will have just enough of a patina of philosophical sophistication that midwits feel validated in liking it. It will mention Chalmers and other surface level philosophers of mind, again in easily repeatable soundbite form. But the key thing is that it will be a typical social media "movement," spreading on twitter and discord the same way all LARP shit from tradcath to antinatalism does, spread by young midwit men who do nothing but alternate between work/class and listening to podcasts at the gym and while driving or "night-walking." It will be promulgated by a mix of new and established grifters, typical Rogan STEMlord guest type guys, like the Weinsteins and Musk. They will preach it as some kind of new philosophical wave, something that overcomes the problems in quantum theory and allows us to understand chatGPT and a bunch of other buzzword meme shit like that to guarantee ideal grifting potential. Existing grifters will flock to it, especially techbro and AI guys. 
+
+And throughout all of this it will be completely hollow and meaningless, just a rebrand of scientistic materialism for nerds who want to be "part of something." It will solve none of the actual problems of materialism or greedy reductivism. It won't enable alternative thinking, it will simply terminate any new, un-materialistic, un-scientistic thought that is just beginning to become possible after decades of boomer and millennial "trust the science" retards while it's still in the womb. It will absorb all existing interesting discourses through elective affinities with them, for example it will absorb the Deleuzians and the process philosophers extremely quickly. Even worse, it will start to claim affinities with many other interesting philosophers like Bergson and Schelling. It will DEFINITELY absorb all existing interest in nondualism by confusing illiterate zoomers into thinking mystical experience = "oceanic feeling," and it will psychologize and technologize all of this. It will do the same to psychedelics discourse, and to aliens discourse. REMEMBER THESE WORDS. 
+
+Just remember that I said this so you don't get sucked in, becoming a permanent midwit slave of this egregore. Remember: panpsychism is retarded. "Information theory" and "object-oriented ontology" are retarded buzzword pseudo-philosophies. Become a neoplatonist so you are equipped to resist this coming evil.
+--- 21925703
+>>21921390
+God would be something greater than the sum of all existence to actualize as God, because everything that exists can be imagined by humans, what is greater than that cannot as the human capacity for intellect will always be limited, even Aquinas noted that humans could not know him, and any attempts to increase this ability are not of Gods doing but something way more sinister
+--- 21925705
+>>21925595
+The metaphysical is purely conceptual, neither physical nor observable. Each school of philosophy throughout history has embraced its own metaphysical principles. Some claim that everything that exists is ideas. Others, that it's matter. Yet others, that it's consciousness.
+Parmenides believed that all that there was was the One. Heraclitus claimed that everything was eternal flow, and that nothing remains stable. Plato asserted that there were two worlds, one of matter (which we live in), and one of ideas (which we think through). For Plato, every object is an idea taking a form, and what we perceive are impressions, which we then associate with ideas we got from our past lives, that ultimately come from God.
+According to Aristotle, each thing has a substance, and each substance has an essence. Substances and essences more or less correspond to words and their definitions, although not all words describe only one substance.
+
+Later philosophers, such as David Hume and Immanuel Kant, were of the opinion that metaphysical speculation is of no need to us, since it can neither be confirmed nor proven wrong. Furthermore, it is difficult to say what the universe really is in itself, as our human minds can only process what we observe and think about as a human can. No metaphysical point of view can really affect the way we interact with the world on an everyday basis.
+From the 20th century onwards, it became common for philosophers to regard metaphysics as backwards, not in the sense of being primitive, but rather of demanding the possession of knowledge far beyond what mere mortal beings could obtain. Only a God could really understand the metaphysical nature of the universe, and claiming to know it would be to overstep our boundaries.
+--- 21925717
+>>21925703
+>even Aquinas noted that humans could not know him, and any attempts to increase this ability are not of Gods doing but something way more sinister
+Then what's the point of discussing God so much if we can't even know Him? We might as well just close the argument by saying that "It is not up to us as humans to know what God is".
+--- 21925722
+>>21925645
+
+A replacement is exactly what I do not want. I wish to live in a world where no one experiences private religious feelings, in which they replace their "lack" with NOTHING. Because they don't feel a lack. I don't want some other sociological phenomenon to come along and "fill the void". Rather, I want the void to be unfelt. And this is precisely the problem with the majority, the feeling of lack where none properly exists.
+
+I understand that the use of magnets or some other contraption blunts religious feelings, together with a decrease in intelligence. Worth it. As long as religious feeling is reduced I'm all for it.
+--- 21925740
+>>21925191
+This guy thinks that because our eyes can't detect certain parts of the color spectrum, that this validates the existence of metaphysics and other dimensions. Let me spell this out for you, either "metaphysics" interact with our material world, in which case we can make empirical statements about it, or it does not in which case the entire concept of "metaphysics" is moot.
+--- 21925743
+>>21925717
+It would be wise of you.
+--- 21925808
+>>21925703
+>>21925717
+>>even Aquinas noted that humans could not know him,
+
+:o
+
+>even an overt promulgator for the unfalisifiability of a religion based upon a god noted that humans could not know him
+>EVEN HIM!! 
+>IKR!! 
+>THE LAAAST PERSON YOU WOULD EXPECT TO NOTE THAT SORT OF FING
+
+keep smoking that crack, bean cock
+--- 21925812
+>>21925645
+>Atheism as a movement is completely dead.
+Is our culture becoming increasingly degenerate, satanic, hedonistic, base, etc? Or is athiesm on the decline?
+
+Pick one, you silly goose.
+--- 21925842
+>>21925812
+no no, don't you see? The anon is the one human who can see the past and the future, he has figured out that:
+>culture becoming increasingly degenerate, satanic, hedonistic, base
+AND BY JESUS'S GRACE THAT THE LORDD IS COMING VERRRRRRY SOOON, AND THIS PROVES IT:
+>athiesm on the decline
+THAT THE ANON IS THE STATIONARY OBSERVER - THE ULTIMATE SUPERIOR FORM OF HUMANKIND(!) FOR HE IS MAKING OBSERVATIONS THAT ARE GENERIC! COUNTERING THEM WITH PLATITUDE!
+
+Truly, He is risen.
+--- 21925849
+>>21919998
+Im not him but you clearly know nothing about mathematics.
+--- 21925851
+>>21925705
+>The metaphysical is purely conceptual, neither physical nor observable
+Talk to me like I wear a mask while I am driving by myself with the windows closed. I am new to this. I was not shitposting about infrared. The light behaves generally the same as visible light, but is generally not visible to humans. I was apparently falsely inferring that going beyond human perception and viewing IR with an electronic device might have been piercing the veil. If you conceive of something that qualifies as metaphysical, and then later find a way to observe the phenomenon, does it cease to be metaphysical? Does it get disqualified from ever having been metaphysical? I am just trying to geta feel for where the edge is - or is it all or nothing and there is no edge? I have not read any of the other stuff except Plato. What you said about Plato seems clear enough to me.
+--- 21925865
+>>21925812
+
+Atheism is dead because it won out. It stopped being a "movement" when it became the norm
+--- 21925902
+>>21925865
+Idk brah, turn on the TV and the culture war is alive and well.
+--- 21925915
+>>21925851
+The concept of "idea" is metaphysical, but any specific type of idea is not metaphysical.
+The concept of "matter" is metaphysical, but material properties and phenomena produced by matter, such as waves and forces, are not metaphysical.
+The concept of "becoming" is metaphysical, but any specific process of transformation (be it a reconfiguration, binding, scattering, etc.) is not metaphysical.
+The concept of "time" is metaphysical, but the measurement of time, spacetime, etc. is not metaphysical.
+
+In other words, concepts that describe reality in general are metaphysical. Concepts that describe real stuff (emphasis on "stuff") in a specific way are not metaphysical.
+Anything that has to do with the quantifiable, the measurable, that which can be studied either analytically or experimentally is nowadays studied by the sciences, whereas anything that's broad and defined only in terms of qualities is part of philosophy.
+Mathematics is quantitative, but only makes use of non-experimental proofs (that is, if we don't count proof by exhaustion as a form of experimentation), so it's kind of at an odd intersection between the sciences and the humanities.
+--- 21925969
+>>21925722
+Yet for some reason atheism and loss of religious feeling is only rising in the most developed nations. Your attitude is literally evil and will only work to hurt your own fellows.
+--- 21925978
+>>21925969
+acktually, my man, the commonality between religious fervor is something you share in common with the bombed-out impoverished "undeveloped" people in the worst parts of the world; like them, you're moved to religion through poverty and ineptitude (though mostly ineptitude) to control your situation in life. For some reason of another none of you stab your parents in the groin for having you before becoming economically stable themselves. I would if I was you, rather than waving your cunt up and down in a religious building and reciting the gospels of a bunch of greasy kikes from north africa during the golden age of the roman empire.
+--- 21925982
+>>21925969
+you should read these two things, 
+>>21925810 →
+>>21925750 →
+--- 21925984
+>>21925978
+Sounds like typical academic mumbo jumbo. Pol Pot’s been vindicated.
+--- 21925989
+>>21918725 (OP)
+>St Alselm unironically
+ITT
+daw'll niggers worshiping a saint literally named incel by He parents.
+--- 21925990
+>>21925978
+The generation that sent us to the moon probably had the highest level of church attendance and church involvement in the last 100 years. The only reason why greek philosophy is talked about today is because some monks found it, translated it and preserved it's teachings. Maybe you should have more respect for your forefathers.
+--- 21925995
+>>21925984
+no no nono no no nono
+"academic mumbo jumbo" would b to apologise to other white people for you being a poor loser in the first world, and acting like poor losers in the third world.
+
+i was just calling you a poor loser
+--- 21925996
+>>21925740
+I'm an atheist, but I want to say that metaphysics does not deal with empirical stuff. This does not mean that metaphysics asserts that there is something beyond reality, or that there is something greater than what we can see. Some metaphysicians do, but not all.
+Metaphysics deals with the "world" (the universe), the mind and the body, free will, and the existence of other humans.
+Some metaphysicians claim the mind is separate from the body. Others don't.
+Some metaphysicians claim the the only universe is one made of matter. Others don't.
+Some metaphysicians claim that there are final causes and ultimate causes (reasons for things to exist) for everything in the universe. Others don't.
+Some metaphysicians claim free will is just an illusion. Others don't/
+Metaphysics is just layered on top of other beliefs. Most people are not really conscious of their own metaphysical beliefs, and live quite happily without knowing what they are.
+Only devout Christian metaphysicians would claim that there is a necessary connection between the meaning of life for all humans and the ultimate cause for the universe. For believers of other religions, such as Shintoism and Buddhism, the universe is one thing and the meaning of life is a completely separate matter.
+Many ethicists have come up with theories of ethics that claim to be objective and have no need to even bring up "God". The use of the name "God" to turn people's attention towards what is good and all must obey is only an remnant of Iron Age Jewish beliefs. For anybody else, humans must simply do as is right for them to do without considering what the will of the gods may be (if such a concept as "will of the gods" is even allowable, given how anthropomorphic it is).
+
+So, no, there is nothing inherently mystical or even religious about metaphysics. It's just empty talk about being and existing.
+--- 21926000
+>>21925990
+The only reason those monks were around is because a Roman Emperor decided not to kill them all when they first appeared, little did he know that those monks would burn the world down before, centuries later, deigning to preserve some pretty calligraphy they couldn't even understand.
+--- 21926001
+>>21925577
+Thats not how that works dumbass.
+--- 21926004
+>>21918769
+Atheistsissies... not like this
+--- 21926007
+>>21925990
+>The only reason why greek philosophy is talked about today is because some monks found it, translated it and preserved it's teachings
+VGH, WE'D BE COLONIZING THE EDGE OF THE MILKY WAY RIGHT NOW HAD THE ROMANS.BVRNT ALL OF THE WRITINGS OF PSEUDO-SCIENTIFIC GAYREEK PEDOSOPHERS LIKE PLATO AND ARISTOTLE.
+--- 21926017
+>>21925902
+That is not his point. Once atheism is the default state, moral relativism results, and the various issues just get toppled like dominoes. Democracy, in such a state, is a very harsh mistress.
+>what do you mean, you don't like pederasty?
+>are you some kind of weirdo?
+>hey, everybody - look over here
+>we got us one of them bigots that hate man/boy love over here
+>get the rope
+--- 21926018
+>>21925995
+>look he said it again! and again!
+Nah fuck off. Me and the rest of you will never be friends.
+--- 21926025
+>>21926018
+ITT one emo kindergarten shooter with a jesus complex, nothing new there.
+--- 21926026
+>>21925915
+All right. Thanks. I'll try to get this squared.
+--- 21926031
+>>21925978
+Absolutely euphoric.
+--- 21926032
+>>21926025
+you seem to have me mistaken for someone else I’m probably old enough to be your father. Would have been nice to pull out but the bitch was cock hungry and you ended up falling out of her cunt nine months later. Such is life.
+--- 21926033
+>>21926007
+this is true. Since Plato was the one guy the christians could hold up and use to rationalize their jewish death cult.
+
+If Plato had been taken by time-travelers and raped to death in a cave, there might be n Christianity.
+--- 21926035
+>>21926032
+Why are you so mad at me? Just because St Incel interpreted Plato wrong you're going to act this way?
+--- 21926043
+>>21926035
+I ain’t mad I’m just fucking with you.
+--- 21926046
+>>21926043
+I also just come here to blow off steam and get occasional recs
+--- 21926047
+>>21926017
+>>what do you mean, you don't like pederasty?
+>>are you some kind of weirdo?
+>>hey, everybody - look over here
+>>we got us one of them bigots that hate man/boy love over here
+>>get the rope
+That's not moral relativism though. That's moral absolutism. In this case, what is deemed by the majority to be morally right is pederasty, and that is what people believe all ought to do.
+In our society, it is wrong to criticize homosexuals because there is an implicit agreement that homosexuals and people from the many-letter acronym group are in need of respect and acceptance.
+If nothing were wrong, then nobody would be looking down on people who offend others. Nobody would be offended by people who openly insult them, and nobody would seek to incarcerate people who receive physical harm.
+The entire social justice warrior movement and other such movements, such as the BLM protests, are a sign that moral absolutism is very much alive, even though the values that people accept as good for all to follow are different from the ones that people observed at other points in history. People who lived in the 1930s would have been seen as degenerate by the standards of 17th century Puritans, and Puritans would've been looked down upon by the ancient Israelites, but nobody doubts that each society had its own customs and beliefs regarding what was acceptable to them and unacceptable.
+You claim that atheistic societies have no morals, but what I see going on around us is a reconfiguration of morals and customs. People still look for something to approve of and something to persecute even if there are no holy books to point at for reference.
+--- 21926057
+>>21919359
+By “real” are you referring to the mathematical term “real number” or do you mean as in mathematical Platonism?
+--- 21926059
+>>21926047
+>even if there are no holy books to point at for reference
+That is the scary part - that it can change at a moment's notice. No one will be safe.
+--- 21926061
+>>21926017
+>Once atheism is the default state, moral relativism results
+Nope. Google "The Golden Rule". predates Jeebus. Putting that aside...
+
+The problem is that you incorrectly view basing your life on LotR for the 2000 year old crowd as the solution.
+The real question we need to ask is, with religion correctly discarded as the lens through which we interpret reality, where do we find ourselves? In 300 years if everyone is a 600 pound transsexual pedophile, then that is just the way of things. But I personally highly doubt that. 
+
+What i'm saying is, religion is not necessary for morality. But even if it was, religion is still a crock of shit- so we are just left with the admittedly unfortunate truth that the human condition involves moral relativism. But again, it doesn't, and both you and religion are retarded.
+--- 21926066
+>>21926059
+If the Bible got deleted, surely God would drop us a fresh copy, no?
+--- 21926072
+>>21926061
+We are reaching states of euphoria previously unimaginable.
+--- 21926073
+>>21926061
+do you think religion started with Jesus buddy ?are you mentally ill?
+--- 21926081
+>>21926072
+not an argument
+
+>>21926073
+See, I almost wrote a little disclaimer about that in the post, but figured that no one would be pedantic enough to bring it up. 
+Do better.
+--- 21926082
+>>21926066
+The presence of a physical text is not what is at issue. A whole new parallel morality is likely forming. Judging by who supports it, it's not going to be good.
+--- 21926085
+>>21926081
+>but figured that no one would be pedantic enough to bring it up
+not an argument
+--- 21926087
+>>21926082
+Idk brah, the catholic church is pretty pro pedophilia, don't see how trannies are worse.
+--- 21926089
+>>21926081
+explain/name one instance where a civilization had morals without religion
+--- 21926100
+>>21926085
+Correct, that was not an argument. It was a statement. 
+
+>>21926089
+Yikes, so my whole post goes down the drain because I used the term "religion" too loosely? Seems like a lame way to get out of the argument. 
+But if you'll permit me some leeway, the golden rule is highly noted in Confucianism, which predates the new testament and the Torah (probably, the Torah dates seem a little sketchy).
+--- 21926104
+>>21926087
+The absolute state of where the RCC has brought us that this is the crossroads where you and I converge. Point taken, but pedophilia is not a Christian virtue, but a Catholic virtue. Do not conflate young marriages with baby rape. Also, do not neglect that ''Jews'' molest at a much higher rate than Catholics.
+--- 21926110
+>>21926104
+>do not neglect that ''Jews'' molest at a much higher rate than Catholics.
+Catholicbros, the Jews are beating us again... We gotta go rape more altar boys so we can keep the numbers up.
+--- 21926114
+>>21926104
+>RCC
+Not up on my /pol/ memes, what is this? Reptilian Communist Cockgobblers?
+>Also, do not neglect that ''Jews'' molest at a much higher rate than Catholics.
+Didn't know that, but I do know that Catholic Priests molest at slightly more than double the rate of the gen pop.
+--- 21926118
+Tbh I'd convert to Roman Catholicism and spend years at a seminar training to become a priest if I knew I could have guaranteed altar boipussy as soon as I got ordained.
+--- 21926121
+>>21926104
+>>21926114
+hol up
+"Roman Catholic Church"
+brain fart
+--- 21926128
+>>21926100
+btw... the golden rule isn't really morals it's advice. so you're kind of retarded. trannys want to be lobotomized, so they are willing to castrate children because that's the way they perceive wanting to be treated. so you're kind of stupid
+--- 21926135
+>its impossible for us to exist
+>we exist anyway
+>therefore God by definition must exist
+it's that simple why do people still argue about this?
+--- 21926142
+>>21926128
+Holy shit you idiot the same thing applies to Christianity. Get your head checked.
+--- 21926150
+>>21926135
+weakest bait i've ever seen about this topic
+The worst part is you might actually be sincere.
+--- 21926152
+>>21926142
+>prove why you're wrong
+>ad hom reply
+care to take another shot here?
+--- 21926155
+>>21926152
+>ad hom reply
+kek, half your post was ad hom
+Please explain in no less than 500 words how your post and my post differed in style (other than our points of view being different).
+--- 21926161
+>>21926142
+How's that bad tho? Christianity's known for being a milquetoast version of Judaism and being the hippie religion. It's all about preaching love towards your neighbors and turning the other cheek and other kinds of cucky stuff.
+--- 21926162
+>>21926017
+>when atheism is the default state
+For millenia child marriage or marriage of young women to old men has been a reality, if not sanctioned on the peripheries of society. Its only with the most recent rise of secular humanism that it has become taboo.
+>but my French petition
+The sexual revolution was a revolution. Overshoot happens. The intellectuals were following ideas of liberation to their logical conclusions and being edgy about it. They quickly amended their statements.
+--- 21926168
+>>21926162
+Well, let's hope we get past this age of puritanical sexual repression so we can freely marry our boywives.
+--- 21926169
+>>21926161
+Maybe in theory. That does not describe the American right, at any rate. 
+
+Putting aside the larger problem of basing your life on a literal fantasy novel written by people 2000 years behind us in our understanding of things.
+--- 21926171
+>>21926155
+Mine explained why your idea was illogical, yours didn't make an effort
+--- 21926175
+>>21926171
+>yours didn't make an effort
+I put in all the effort that was required to point out the flaw in your logic.
+--- 21926179
+>>21926128
+So in essence those aren’t trannies should get their dicks chopped off too? Doesn’t quite add up…
+--- 21926185
+>>21926128
+>so they are willing to castrate children because that's the way they perceive wanting to be treated. 
+Wouldn't the golden rule in this scenario be more like
+>I, a tranny, want the freedom to choose my identity, therefore I will give others that same freedom
+?
+If your argument is that real life trannies don't do this, then I would just argue that they are not adhering to the golden rule.
+--- 21926193
+>>21926169
+69 check'd
+American culture has lots of influences besides Christianity. It's not like people in Anglo-Saxon England forgot absolutely everything about pre-Christian Germanic ethics and honor systems the moment they converted to Christianity, and it's not like American culture did not evolve over to a radically different form from that of most European countries during colonial times and afterwards, with the rise of the pioneer and capitalist-industrial spirits.
+American people love to quote the Bible because it's the one book people of all ages have heard of, but the truth is that American cultural values and beliefs hardly owe anything to the book of the ancient Hebrews. Americans owe more to John Locke and the pioneer spirit than they do to any part of the Bible.
+--- 21926198
+>>21926175
+What's the flaw? "treat others the way you want to be treated" in fact means nothing unless you already have a consciousness which has an understanding of what "good" is. Therefore it has no base morality. It in itself is a tool, be kind to that 6'3 guy that can kill you because then he may not kill you. It's almost like math. It however is not morality. 
+>>21926179
+you're missing a word in your sentence, as it stands you don't make sense.
+>>21926185
+no that's a delusion. (which is the same as being one) you can't identify as something without being it. they already have the freedom to be something they can achieve they simply choose not to. another example of the "golden rule" is this, Jews want to have their dicks mutilated as babies. So they go around doing so to everyone because that's what they would want. Do you understand now?
+--- 21926203
+>>21926169
+>written by people 2000 years behind us in our understanding of things.
+It was easier to take a claim like that seriously before our civilization started to claim that man becomes a woman if he cuts his dick off and has a surgeon create an axe wound between his legs.
+--- 21926221
+>>21926203
+Yeah, things were so much better off back when Christian monks used to intentionally cause themselves bodily harm by whipping themselves and wearing spiky metal chains around their feet.
+Tranny self-harm bad but Christian self-harm good amirite my fellow tradfags?
+--- 21926222
+>>21926198
+>What's the flaw? "treat others the way you want to be treated" in fact means nothing unless you already have a consciousness which has an understanding of what "good" is. Therefore it has no base morality. It in itself is a tool, be kind to that 6'3 guy that can kill you because then he may not kill you. It's almost like math. It however is not morality.
+I think the problem is that we fundamentally disagree on one thing- that the bible is anything other than a story written by men. If that is the case, then what you are calling "real morality" doesn't exist, because "real morality" is just the people who wrote the bible's opinion.
+
+>>21926198
+>>21926198
+>no that's a delusion. (which is the same as being one) you can't identify as something without being it. they already have the freedom to be something they can achieve they simply choose not to. another example of the "golden rule" is this, Jews want to have their dicks mutilated as babies. So they go around doing so to everyone because that's what they would want. Do you understand now?
+No. 
+Why do you think the golden rule involves forcing people to do things that they don't want to? That is the opposite of the golden rule.
+--- 21926226
+>>21926198
+Oh well you’ll get it eventually
+--- 21926227
+>>21926203
+You seem too obsessed with trannies to really talk with, judging from all your posts here. Not even memeing.
+--- 21926231
+>>21926221
+Both are bad, so I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make. I'm not a Christian by the way.
+>>21926227
+First post I've made in the thread. It's the most obvious example of modern nonsense, however.
+--- 21926237
+BROOO CHRISTIAN SELF-HARM IS SO AESTHETIC BRO 
+HAVE YOU READ ST. THOMAS A KEMPIS?
+WE GOTTA LIVE IN IMITATION OF CHRIST AND SUFFER JUST LIKE HIM BECAUSE THAT'S HOW LIFE IS MEANT TO BE.
+OMG IT'S SO FUCKING TRAD AND BASED.
+FUCK GAYTHEISTS I HOPE ALL OF THEM DIE (BTW I KNOW THAT THIS GOES AGAINST JESUS' TEACHINGS OF BEING PEACEFUL AND PATIENT WITH OTHERS, BUT FUCK THOSE PEOPLE).
+GOD, I WILL BREED MILLIONS OF ROMAN CATHOLIC CHILDREN IN YOUR NAME AND WILL DONATE MY ENTIRE FORTUNE TO THE HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH (that is, if I had a trad Catholic wife).
+--- 21926243
+>>21926222
+except that morality existed inside of faith separate from the bible. I don't even need to explain the morality in the bible for my case to be made. 
+Second point is my assertions that are based on reality. Trans people are doing this today without having religion. They are convinced this is a good thing. That's because they live in the natural sinful state of man. Why did Zeus have to go around and get people to stop cannibalizing each other? At one time that was okay, because there was no morality. Why do Jews become doctors and cut off part of baby boys penises? Rejection of God. These are real instances that happen today that you cannot refute. Yet you still think that morality exists without having faith in a creator or a divine world.
+--- 21926246
+>>21926231
+>First post I've made in the thread. It's the most obvious example of modern nonsense, however.
+Don't even really want to wade into these waters with a trannypanic poster, but...
+My opinion is that the knowledge the human race has gained about its environment since the publishing of the bible has at least crippled, if not outright killed the credibly of the bible.
+--- 21926249
+The "does God exist?" question is a redherring, the greatest psyop of all time.
+
+Yes God exists. But the purpose of this "debate" is meant to paint God Himself as contingent on existence. When existence is contingent on God. God doesn't even "need" to exist to fulfill His desires. That is how powerful God is, how "asei" He is .
+
+So Jesus really is God, and He really did die on the Cross for me.
+--- 21926262
+>>21926243
+Where did I say that everyone follows the golden rule though?
+Yet AGAIN, forcing people to become circumcised trannies or whatever else is literally the opposite of the golden rule. Nevertheless, the golden rule exists, and there were people who followed it before Christianity. 
+>That's because they live in the natural sinful state of man.
+But really you're just stuck in your little simulation, so I don't see this getting through to you. 
+
+>>21926249
+Pointless post. It changes no minds, it's just you virtue signaling.
+--- 21926264
+>>21926222
+Furthermore, atheist, we know and acknowledge that the Bible is written by men. Only lukewarm willfully ignorant atheists even say this line. Go ahead and look up the authors of each book. Each one is known. But as an atheist you have no understanding of being led by the being that controls this universe, because you reject Him. Therefore you could not conceive being instructed by the divine. Probably never sincerely prayed in your entire life. The argument about whether or not things come from man or God, which are written down come from people that have been influenced directly by God and have had a direct impact on the story of the world. See the five books from Moses. 
+"treat others the way you want to be treated". Okay. Is it against the golden rule to open doors for other people? But I'm forcing the door to be opened for you!!! That means it's not the golden rule!!!!!! Even though I want people to open the door for me!!!!!!!!!!!
+--- 21926268
+>>21926249
+DAS RITE MUH FELLOW TRADCATHOLIC POSTER
+NOW LET'S DONATE MORE MONEY TO THE CHURCH AND SEND LETTERS TO "HUMANITARIAN" ORGS ASKING THEM TO STOP AIDS PREVENTION PROGRAMS IN AFRICAN COUNTRIES, CUZ, Y'KNOW, WE GOTTA LET PEOPLE BREED.
+FOR AS THE LORD HATH SAID "BE FRUITFUL AND MULTIPLY".
+ALSO, LET'S CONVINCE MORE CANCER PATIENTS AND OTHER TERMINALLY ILL PEOPLETO GO ON PILGRIMAGES TO HOLY SHRINES INSTEAD OF SEEKING CHEMIOTHERAPY CUZ WE ALL KNOW HOW EFFECTIVE PRAYER AND MIRACULOUS HEALING IS.
+FUCK MUSLIMS I FUCKING HATE MUSLIMS. DEATH TO ALL MUDSLIMES. I HOPE THAT ONE DAY THE KINGDOM OF JERUSALEM WILL FALL IN HANDS OF A WESTERN CHRISTAIN KING AGAIN.
+--- 21926270
+>>21926262
+>tHAt's nOT tHe GOldEn Rule
+--- 21926284
+>>21926264
+>"treat others the way you want to be treated". Okay. Is it against the golden rule to open doors for other people? But I'm forcing the door to be opened for you!!! That means it's not the golden rule!!!!!! Even though I want people to open the door for me!!!!!!!!!!!
+kek
+Christfriends aren't sending their best. 
+Unwilling mutilation is the opposite of the golden rule. I wan to give you enough credit to think that you are intentionally playing dumb, but
+>>21926270
+i'm starting to not be able to do that.
+
+If you think unwilling mutilation is the golden rule, then you just keep on keepin' on, and i'll do the same.
+I don't concede the argument, but I am done with it unless you come up with something that makes any sense at all.
+--- 21926288
+>>21926284
+*want
+--- 21926294
+>>21926264
+YUH MUH FELLOW NIGGUH IN CHRIST THE BIBLE IS 100% TRUE AND DIVINELY INSPIRED. IT'S GOT THE BEST, THE FUCKIN BEST MORALS AND THE BEST PARABLES AND THE HYMNS AND THE BEST 'THOLOGIES OF ALL. IT'S THE BEST OF THE BEST /LIT/. BRO WE SHOULD JUST THROW ALL OF THE OTHER BOOKS AT THE LIBRARY TO THE TRASH EXCEPT FOR THE ROMAN CHADTHOLIC CHURCH CATHECISM AND THE WRITINGS OF ST. THOMAS AQUINAS.
+BRO IT'S SO FUCKING ECSTATIC TO READ THE GOSPEL OF LUKE AND THE EPISTLE TO THE CORINTHIANS. SHIT'S FUCKIN DANK YO JUST LIKE THE BOOK OF JONAH AND THE BOOK OF EZEKIEL. SO FUCKING BASED AND KEYED AND TRAD MY FELLOW NON-MUSLIM TRADTHOLIC BRO.
+IT'S LIKE ALMOST AS GOOD AS LSD (except I've never done LSD because I would never dare buy drugs from a non-Christian drug dealer).
+
+DEM FUCKIN ATHEISTS CAN'T DO ANYTHING THAT'S MORALLY RIGHT CUZ THEY'RE ALL FUCKED UP WITH THEIR NIGGER-BBC-TRANNY WORSHIP. THEY DON'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING THAT'S GOOD OR VIRTUOUS. ONLY WE, THE RELIGION OF THE TRUE AND BASED AF RIGHT CAN KNOW WHAT IS THE MOST DEFINITELY CORRECT AND TO HELL WITH ANYBODY WHO DARES TO CONTRADICT US.
+--- 21926297
+>>21926284
+You haven't made a single argument since your post I replied to where you said that morality has existed outside of religion because "muh golden rule". I explain to you the sin of man, which is natural degeneration which our reality proves is not any morality. There is nothing inherently good about treating people as you want to be treated. As stated evil can come from this. You choose to ignore any point regarding children because you have no refutation, and have been unable to say anything other than "you're wrong and dumb lol". The simple point is this, treating others the way you want to be treated is not in any sense of the word "morality". If you've read any Roman say, Juvenal you would know that man desires what is bad for him. Simply because you would "like to be treated a way" is not morality, it is in fact, as stated a tool for survival that worked so well it continues to exist. You teach someone to do people favors in the hopes that they get it returned one day, and benefitting themselves. There is no virtue in this.
+--- 21926298
+>>21926297
+>There is no virtue in this.
+Define virtue.
+--- 21926301
+>>21926298
+>no refutation
+thanks socrates! virtue can be defined as righteousness, moral good or an admirable quality
+--- 21926303
+>>21926297
+>I explain to you the sin of man, which is natural degeneration
+Again, the problem is that you are basing your worldview off of a fictional book.
+
+Anyway the golden rule was obviously (and verifiably) thought of as involving living well with your fellow man, not as an excuse for violence and whatever else.
+--- 21926310
+>>21926303
+Actually I stated another source (Juvenal) that explains the same sentiment, that man if given the choice, will degrade his own being. You'll notice that I never brought up anything involving "violence". Ask a transgender if it was violent when they were given the ability to remove their penis. Ask a Jew if it was violent when their tip was cut. These things to them are involved with living well. Do you see Mr Beast's buddy right now saying that the access to such care saved his life? Maybe you don't understand yet
+--- 21926311
+Catholicucks are fucking ridiculous. They have to recur to philosophical arguments made up by ancient Greek PAGAN philosophers to substantiate stuff they believe should be accepted through faith regarding stuff written by the ancient Hebrews. They claim to share continuity with the old prophets like Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Ezra, yet they also govern themselves by a hierarchy that's literally copied off the ancient Roman PAGAN religion. They even call their highest priest "Pontifex" maximus. The head of their church is fucking Rome, the old capital of the Roman Empire that crucified Jesus.
+In addition, they use bullshit arguments about Papal infallibility to allow their Roman pontifex maximus to come up with bullshit excuses to change their centuries of traditions on dogma and doctrine that they claim to be what unite them to St Peter.
+--- 21926316
+>>21926301
+Define righteousness in a non-redundant way.
+--- 21926319
+>>21926222
+>That is the opposite of the golden rule
+Not him, and digits aside, let's see if we can agree on the text. Something along the lines of -
+>do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
+Can we agree on this? If so, then show me how ''Jews'' violate the rule within the dick chopping example.
+--- 21926323
+>>21926316
+why bother?
+--- 21926324
+>>21926311
+When you learn that 'petros' means both "rock" ("you are my, successor, stone on the ground") and was a name for a glorious temple city just being built at the time, and whose king actually chased herod out of judea with his armies, you'll love it.
+--- 21926325
+>>21926246
+>trannypanic poster
+WTF is that even?
+--- 21926328
+>>21926310
+>Actually I stated another source (Juvenal) that explains the same sentiment, that man if given the choice, will degrade his own being.
+How is that a source? Did he do a study?
+
+>Ask a transgender if it was violent when they were given the ability to remove their penis. Ask a Jew if it was violent when their tip was cut.
+And yet again, for the millionth time, these people doing this to others, would not be following the golden rule.
+
+We are going in circles.
+--- 21926329
+>>21926323
+Do you want to be taken seriously, or do you just want to waste other posters' time by coming up with bullshit objections built on piles of vacuous buzzwords?
+--- 21926332
+>>21926319
+read the entire exchange before commenting
+already addressed this
+--- 21926341
+>>21926324
+That city's name was Petra, not Petros.
+--- 21926343
+>>21926328
+Yeah he studied humanity brother.
+>>21926328
+>your evidence against me isn't real
+nice try buddy. you're being willfully ignorant of what human nature is in order to larp as an intellectual
+>>21926329
+>do you want to be taken seriously?
+>asks someone to define words over and over instead of responding to the text
+you okay?
+--- 21926346
+>>21926343
+>Yeah he studied humanity brother.
+I accept your concession.
+--- 21926349
+>>21926343
+Fucking kys Catholicuck I hope you chop off your balls just all of those Roman Catholic monks and priests who voluntarily became eunuchs.
+--- 21926350
+>>21926346
+>hehe... your argument isn't backed up by modern academic studies... i win
+--- 21926352
+>>21926349
+not a catholic btw
+--- 21926356
+>>21926341
+that's not a refutation and your grasp of translated language is bad.
+--- 21926357
+>>21926352
+kys anyway
+--- 21926361
+>>21926350
+It doesn't mean you're wrong buddy, it just means you've given no hard data that you are right.
+--- 21926364
+>>21926332
+Point at it. I do not see it being properly deconstructed.
+--- 21926366
+>>21926356
+Fuck you too Christtranny and join your Kike-on-a-stick
+--- 21926368
+>>21926361
+in fact, it proves that I'm correct considering the opposition took his last stand on that dumbass point
+--- 21926369
+>>21926364
+>I do not see it being properly deconstructed.
+Meaning you want me to point at it so you can argue the point. Then just argue it, don't pretend you didn't see the post.
+--- 21926371
+>>21926368
+Are you the guy who posted that smug Soijak? If so, fucking kys.
+Death to all Soijakpostingtrannies /qa/ lost kys kys kys kys kys
+--- 21926376
+>>21926368
+????
+I'm the same guy, please explain how you arrived at your victory. Because from where i'm standing, you have not shown your claim about degradation/sin to be true.
+--- 21926379
+>>21926376
+>Because from where i'm standing,
+>i'm
+Crypto-lowercasepostingfag.
+--- 21926381
+bump
+--- 21926386
+>>21926376
+>sin doesn't exist
+>modern day transgenders without faith think it's a moral good to castrate children
+what are you missing?
+--- 21926390
+>>21926381
+KYS
+>>21926386
+Fucking kys lowercasepostingscum.
+Join your Saviour on the cross.
+--- 21926400
+>>21926369
+I guess it must be the 'nuh, uh, the golden rule does not work that way'' nonsense that I did see. 
+>do unto others as you would have them do unto you
+>dickchop others as you would have them dickchop you
+The only way that I see a flaw is if the dickchopping is objectively evil. From the dickchopper's perspective, it apparently is not, so that falls short.
+--- 21926401
+>chopping off your dick is bad UNLESS IT'S FOR JESUS CHRIST, IN WHICH CASE IT'S ACTUALLY GOOD
+"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive [it], let him receive" - Matthew 19:12
+--- 21926402
+>>21926386
+>sin doesn't exist
+Sin doesn't exist, no. Men doing unwanted things to one another certainly does, but then... they wouldn't be following the golden rule. 
+
+Yet again for the bajjillionth time, a tranny following the golden rule would think
+>if I didn't want to be a tranny like the person in front of me has just said they don't, would I still want my dick cut off? No, I wouldn't, so I won't do it to this person who doesn't want it.
+--- 21926409
+>>21926400
+see
+>>21926402
+--- 21926416
+>>21926401
+based
+--- 21926417
+The golden rule is so messy and complex. Why not use the categorical imperative instead? Everybody should that which, if every single person did it, then it wouldn't be bad.
+That way, there would be no people chopping each others' dicks off, and there would be no suicidal people killing others.
+--- 21926421
+>>21926416
+Is criticizing Christianity for suggesting that it is good for people to become eunuchs based, or Christianity itself based because it advocates for self-castration in the name of God?
+--- 21926422
+>>21926402
+>sin doesn't exist
+are u okay bro? do you need help?
+on the tranny point you are simply wrong. you know that trannys see a little boy play with dolls and encourage transition right? you can keep saying "they aren't following the golden rule" but that doesn't make it so. they now perceive wanting this done to them as they were children so they do it to children. How is that not the golden rule? be specific and don't trail off
+--- 21926429
+>>21926417
+>The golden rule is so messy and complex.
+It really isn't, if you take it in a Confucian context. No one versed in that way of thinking would come away with the idea that trannies turning unwilling people into trannies is a correct application of the golden rule.
+--- 21926437
+>>21926429
+I'm sure you could find some psychopathic people who believe that killing as many humans as possible is good because they hate being alive.
+--- 21926438
+>>21926422
+>they now perceive wanting this done to them as they were children so they do it to children. How is that not the golden rule?
+Because the golden rule would be
+>>if I didn't want to be a tranny like the person in front of me has just said they don't, would I still want my dick cut off? No, I wouldn't, so I won't do it to this person who doesn't want it.
+
+I really truly can't make this any simpler. I'm being as plain and... explanatory as I can be.
+You are mad at trannies, not the golden rule, which they are not following, for the above reason.
+--- 21926445
+>>21926438
+>exact same reply
+how do you think this continues your argument? it was wrong the first time you stated it. in your sentence it implies the human acknowledges the child doesn't want it. When the reality is that they force the child down the path- because of projection psychology. Understand yet?
+--- 21926446
+>>21926437
+Did you not even read my post? The golden rule isn't a legal document that is made to lawyer out of, it's an idea rooted in man's better (yeah yeah no such definable thing without le god) aspects.
+--- 21926452
+>>21926445
+>When the reality is that they force the child down the path- because of projection psychology.
+And therefore they are not following the golden rule. Understand yet?
+Fuck me.
+--- 21926454
+>>21926446
+>it's an idea rooted in man's better (yeah yeah no such definable thing without le god) aspects.
+This post was written by a filthy Rousseauian.
+--- 21926455
+>>21926437
+Nutjobs like Benatar would call you crazy for suggesting it right up until they break from the last vestige of reason to which they cling.
+--- 21926457
+>>21926452
+you don't understand what delusion is buddy. They would be believing that they are following the golden rule, because it is abstract and not rooted in morality.
+--- 21926465
+>>21926457
+If they are delusional then that's a whole separate issue, lmfao! 
+Why would you blame the golden rule for a mentally ill person's inability to follow it?
+--- 21926476
+>>21926465
+I accept your concession buddy. Point proven, the golden rule is not morality. Religion that states their morals would be able to prevent this from happening even in a delusional mind.
+--- 21926488
+>>21926476
+>Religion that states their morals would be able to prevent this from happening even in a delusional mind.
+
+Religious people don't become mentally unwell and do crazy shit? What?
+How are you going to claim victory in this argument when your points become more delusional (the irony btw) by the post?
+--- 21926492
+>>21926476
+Sure, the same religion that asks people to stone adulterers and to punish people who say Yahoo-wahoo's name in vain. I bet you we can learn plenty from ancient Yids who believed that mixing milk and meat was unseemly in the eyes of the Lord.
+Also, remember that
+"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Matthew 5:17
+--- 21926503
+>>21926488
+atheist society encouraging trans movement proves my point. even if a devout person became delusional their brothers in faith would stop them. (don't bother mentioning infiltrated churches which are lies)
+>>21926492
+you probably don't understand that quote
+--- 21926504
+>>21926476
+>>21926465
+>>21926457
+The "golden rule"..? You mean "do unto others"? That's garbage in and of itself. You shouldn't be treating bad people as you'd like to be treated, you're not bad and don't deserve brutal maiming, but they might do.
+
+It's more the case that ....... in my case anyway ...... I'm nice to people sometimes because I choose to be, it's a matter of willpower and probably more comes down to "only the strong can be merciful (as a weak man has nothing in is power to be merciful about/for/with),"
+
+Golden Rule debunked. Now go kill some bad people.. or at the very least mutilate their appendages. Even your jewish God approves of this in your book of stupid rubbish.
+--- 21926516
+>>21926503
+and there go the goalposts 
+gg
+--- 21926521
+>>21926516
+go ahead and explain it
+--- 21926526
+>>21926503
+>atheist society encouraging trans movement
+Yeah, too bad it's not like in the good old days, when the Roman Catholic Church was allowed to keep castrated young men solely for the sake of serving as choir singers.
+--- 21926534
+>>21926526
+remember when I said this 
+>devout person became delusional their brothers in faith would stop them.
+remember when what happened was under 1) a corrupt church and 2) was fought against and finally overturned? also 3) willfully done by the boys as far as im aware. source me if im wrong
+--- 21926565
+>>21926534
+Nah I'm just gonna bring up the "No True Scotsman" card on that.
+You fuckers will just defen literally kind of shit by saying "Oh, but THAT'S not what the TRUE Church would do", even though it's the worst excuse anybody could use.
+If you wanna come off like less of a pussy, you could try saying that they dindu nuffin wrong and that we need to cut off dongs so boys can preserve their beautiful high pitched singing voices. Instead, you just come off like a filthy rat, who hides whenever it feels under attack from outsiders.
+
+Just owe up to the fact that your Church is full of people who do all sorts of immoral shit. I as an atheist don't believe that all atheists are rational or moral, but that doesn't make my self-identification label any more likely to be easily peeled off.
+--- 21926576
+>>21926565
+>your church
+as i told you, im not a catholic. if you read the Bible you'd know satan disguises himself dressed as white
+--- 21926599
+>>21925577
+so he was right
+--- 21926604
+>>21926576
+>if you read the Bible you'd know satan disguises himself dressed as white
+bro what if Jesus was Satan
+--- 21926663
+>>21926576
+What a fucking pussy.
+--- 21926704
+>>21925996
+Differentiate how "metaphysics" is different from physics. The way I have seen it used is that "physics" deals with the natural universe, and "metaphysics" is used for some dimension outside of or beyond the universe we live in. "The body", "free will", "the mind", and "the existence of other humans" are subjects within the domain of the natural world, they exist in reality and we can investigate them as such, therefore they would fall under the umbrella of "physics".
+
+So, from what I have said, you should be able to see how "metaphysics" is really just a Trojan horse to try and smuggle in wild conjecture and make it sound legitimate.
+--- 21926713
+>>21926249
+--- 21926974
+>>21926704
+To a great extent it's a historical/cultural division. Many concepts that used to be studied by metaphysicians are nowadays associated with Physics (such as time, space, causes, forces, and substances).
+The difference is that whereas physicists try to make models that describe specific events, or that will tell how how a certain body's behavior will work given a certain set of circumstances, metaphysicians will only discuss, for example, whether they exist, and how they relate in general to the world and to all that exists. 
+Metaphysicians are not very interested in exploring anything in particular. Rather, they just define concepts and think about what they logically entail.
+Instead of studying "beauty" or "numbers" per se, metaphysicians would probably just come up with a highly unintuitive definition for them that would fit in with their general conception of the universe, and then consider in what kind of case they might exist, if at all.
+Metaphysics quickly runs stagnant, since there is very little to discuss once initial lists of definitions and general premises have been agreed upon.
+--- 21927056
+>>21926974
+>Metaphysics quickly runs stagnant, since there is very little to discuss once initial lists of definitions and general premises have been agreed upon
+So, what is the draw? A whole lot of dudes have dedicated their lives to it.
+--- 21927083
+>>21918725 (OP)
+The proof is smarter then you think, and both Spinoza in his description of substance and Wittgenstein in the idea that drawing limits to thought presents to you what is beyond thought (intro to the tractatus) seem to draw from it.
+But you read no books, so there's no discussion to be had here.

lit/21919054.txt

@@ -156,3 +156,32 @@ Toll status: paid, neovagina: dilated, Ukraine: glorified.
 --- 21922748
 >>21919162
 Under-rated post
+--- 21923514
+>>21922194
+There is beautiful rhythm and cadence in this, at least
+--- 21924111
+>>21922194
+You should turn off spell-checking
+--- 21924593
+>>21919162
+This at least made me understand the author's approach more, thanks anon
+--- 21924602
+>>21919162
+When the other guys do it, itcs good. When this guy did it, it made my brain think it had a speech impendent. I know what punctuation is for and you need fucking sense of rythmn and timing to use it in prose.
+--- 21925800
+>>21920748
+>not appreciating the internal rhyme of hall-stall-appall
+--- 21925963
+>>21919162
+I've seen far worse in truth
+--- 21925964
+>>21921142
+He tried, but he can't beat men.
+--- 21926290
+>>21922226
+I thought it was spectacular, probably because as a poet it's a whole tome of wild techniques.
+--- 21926337
+>>21919054 (OP)
+Quite choice my friend. Rather cavalier fellow.
+--- 21926428
+>in the background there was a pidgeon

lit/21920011.txt

@@ -386,3 +386,347 @@ Kindly fuck off to r9k
 --- 21923450
 >>21922935
 This kind of rhetoric will never have the "desired" effect. You're not talking to some cartoon you're talking to a person hurt or let down(by mothers primarily) by women so many times these delusions preserve their ego and psyche(while also somewhat correctly explaining their experience). Your reaction tells us way more about yourself, since when you see what you think of as a failed man, you kick him down pretending to lecture him. What a pure, concentrated cunt thing to do.
+--- 21923608
+>>21920011 (OP)
+God damn man I'm a 3rd worlder in western europe and even I can dip my cookies in milk from time to time. I'm not tall, only 170 cm, I have a shitty face but I workout a lot and participate in meetup events. It's not that hard geez
+--- 21923611
+>>21920031
+>just turn off your biological instincts bro!
+--- 21923631
+>>21920031
+This. Incels are in a way like homos and trannies, in that they make their identity about sexuality. You are no longer this or that person, you are a --insert sexual deviance/lack/thing. You let your sexual obssession define you. 
+I wont be surprised if there are incel advocacy groups in the near future demanding "rights" and "representation", or that they get added to the LGBTMNBVCXZLKJHGFDSAPOIUYTREWQ+++++ acronym.
+Anyone that makes their identity about sexuality is worthy of the noose.
+--- 21923692
+>>21923421
+/pol/tards too, although they're mostly the same people.
+--- 21923706
+>>21923692
+inceldom is the structure, reactionarism the superstructure
+--- 21923711
+>>21920868
+Just because procreating is the second most important thing after survival it doesn't mean we should settle for the easiest way out.
+--- 21923800
+>>21920044
+Its not even that dismissive, its just logical statement. Its no shock that sex-obsessed person will become despairingdue to lack of sex, especially when living in sex-obsessed culture. Its like someone becomes despairing due to lack of belief in very religious community or any other similar equivalent.
+--- 21923805
+>>21920079
+Go to a spermbank, and donate instead of drinking there.
+--- 21924181
+Bump
+--- 21924206
+>>21923022
+>What are your relationships with women like anon?
+I grew up in a single-mother immigrant household as an outcast in a new country with a devouring mother. I had to recover from childhood trauma and learn how to build boundaries with mentally unwell people. In my 20s I fucking hated women with a burning passion and had an attitude similar to yours except more domineering because I hadn't learned how to balance out yet and haven't really considered other people's experiences with empathy. Now it's a string of women who either haven't worked through their trauma yet including the 'ooo daddy' types that I stiff arm. However, I do see glimpses of what I want so I remain optimistic.
+>Because everything I've said comes from having genuine interpersonal and sexual relationships with women
+Do you think this personal experience encompasses the entire spectrum of what's possible in the current year?
+> It seems like you're projecting a whole lot of virtue and depth onto women that just isn't there and that women themselves never claimed to have.
+Maybe. I sure fucking hope not. People have the capacity to overcome their trauma. Hopefully, when lightning strikes I'll be ready to capture it. 
+>There is also a substantial amount of data showing that traditional relationships simply aren't happening, with the average age of marriage now being in the early thirties.
+That's been a growing trend since the '50s. Is it because women suck or it's getting more expensive to gather all the shit you need for marriage for people now and we simply can't afford to do that in our 20s anymore?
+> at least that's what I've gathered from various fuckbuddies and female friends).
+Do you hang out with many tradcon church goers, anon? Once again, do you think you have a good sample size to call your experience data?
+>but having a pet maid with a leash is hardly less dignified than marrying an ex-prostitute who's hit the wall.
+Sure, but I am living in a world where there are more than those two options. Are you saying I am delusional?
+>It seems like you think men should be held to certain western standards of what a "traditional relationship" entails
+Yes, if standards aren't maintained everything goes to shit. Often that involves sacrificing immediate gratification/validation. It is more of a recommendation though, it's not like I go around enforcing it. If the culture is as you say it is and we're circling the drain, fuck it let it ride. Get yourself a 3rd world harem.
+>In lots of cultures its normal to simply see a woman you want and abduct her then wait for Stockholm Syndrome to do its thing.
+Yeah, at a time when Rome was a village, sure. Are you saying we haven't made forward progress in relationships since then or that we've gone backward so far that we're back at the start?
+>This seems to me no less of a valid approach than "falling in love as two equal parts of a completely whole" or whatever the fuck.
+Sure, it will get the job done.
+--- 21924213
+>>21923450
+Oh, you poor baby. They had mommy issue? I haven't begun kicking anyone while they're down yet, you stupid fucking cunt. I went through what you're describing as well yet you weren't able to pick that up because while unfair and it hurts that no one cares It is still your responsibility to walk out of trauma a functioning human being. It's another standard that is no longer maintained.
+>Your reaction tells us way more about yourself,
+What does it tell you, pussy? People on here have no problem spamming nigger and kys all day but the second someone gets anywhere near their feelings, it's oh so unfair to kick a man while he's down. Suck my dick, and take your pearl-clutching to reddit. At least there you'll get some updoots as you get patted on the back for suffering so loudly. Fuck you.
+--- 21924356
+>>21923450
+Thank you anon. It's crazy how people pretend like performative masculinity is an absurd concept while also jumping down the throat of any man expressing any kinds of negative emotions.
+
+I'm not less of a man for having negative feelings or experiences, but in the eyes of society men are very often treated that way. It's insane how half of humanity is looked at as worthless and disposable, but the moment they express any kind of bitterness towards that, they're told to be more empathetic.
+--- 21924443
+>>21924356
+It's called blood libel. Christians did it to Jews throughout the middle ages and most of the modern era til the mid 20th century. Sucks when it's done to you huh?
+--- 21924450
+I’m 22 and I’ve only had sex with prostitutes. Ask me anything
+--- 21924484
+>>21924206
+I don't hate women anon. Ive had plenty of female friends, flings, etc. in my life. Including with 'trad church going' women, who (with some exceptions) are usually the same as other women, just more discreet with their flings and sexual conquests.
+
+Also, I'm willing to admit that I'm not a pure hearted virgin by any stretch of the imagination. I like sex, I like having fun romps with women I barely know, I like summer flings and screwing around on the DL. The problem I have is that women who have the same attitude as me generally have much more opportunities to realize those things simply by virtue of being women, and by my mind twenties I can't help but feel most of them have lapped my several times over. It also feels like being a poor, attractive but not exceptionally attractive, man means that what for me would be a fun fling for most women would be a step down from finding a man with abs or a trust fund on tinder.
+
+Besides, I've lived in the third world, I know how shitty life can be there and that most women would love to escape a hard life of poverty that leaves them old and exhausted by the time they're thirty. Is that a Machiavellian relationship? Sure, but it's not necessarily a bad one.
+
+The way it worked for my grandparents is that they got married in their early twenties/late teens, stuck it out, and built a life together as two equal parts of a whole. Of course that's the ideal, and I would have loved for it to have happened to me. But is getting together with someone in your thirties and building a life together the same thing? That seems like a stretch, I'm only 26 and already feel very much like a whole person. Ive also been through enough hard times on my own to feel that any potential wives I might have have already missed the boat on being "a shoulder to cry on". So if they aren't offering emotional support while I'm young and still getting established, is it really unfair to ask that once I'm old and established they should be young, attractive, fun, and make me look good as arm candy? Idk, it seems like there's been a renegotiation of roles for women over the last half century, but men are held up to the same romantic and patriarchal standards they've always been held to.
+
+Finally, for all your accusing me of having my brain melted by incel propaganda or projecting my resentment into women, I can't help but notice that you're the one holding out for an ideal that hasn't yet materialized. My opinions are formed from lived experience, and most women actually agree with me on a lot of points. Sometimes I think you've just got to take the world as it is, and try to negotiate some form of happiness and dignity within it, rather than holding out for an expectation of how the world "should be" that just doesn't seem to exist anymore.
+--- 21924536
+>>21924443
+Fuck off glownigger I'm not going to resent the Jews just because I've had a shitty life.
+--- 21924646
+>>21924484
+>I don't hate women anon.
+Okay, but I hope you understand where I am coming from. When you say shit like this it seems like you at the very least resent them.
+>would be a step down from finding a man with abs or a trust fund on tinder.
+I usually don't find myself resenting people I enjoy being around. 
+>The problem I have is that women who have the same attitude as me generally have much more opportunities to realize those things simply by virtue of being women
+They do, but it's not like they made it this way. So, to take a woman and place her in a compromising situation because of the indignation you feel with how the die was cast in the West feels like taking your frustration out on her to correct what you perceive is wrong, no?
+>I know how shitty life can be there and that most women would love to escape a hard life of poverty
+Feels a little savior complexy to justify your actions, but you're not wrong.
+>any potential wives I might have have already missed the boat on being "a shoulder to cry on"
+You're done having difficulties at 26? Must be nice. I am in my 30s and shit is still difficult all the time.
+>but is getting together with someone in your thirties and building a life together the same thing?
+Why not? What does age change about the dynamic of what your grandparents achieved together?
+> is it really unfair to ask that once I'm old and established they should be young, attractive, fun, and make me look good as arm candy
+Yes, because now that they're young you're not offering them emotional support either. You're using them to make up for something "they" didn't do to you consciously. It happened because of circumstances.
+>it seems like there's been a renegotiation of roles for women over the last half century, but men are held up to the same romantic and patriarchal standards they've always been held to.
+Women have more leverage now. Before they used to rely on the man's paycheck to stay alive. Now that they can make their own money they can negotiate for more than a paycheck and we got caught without our pants down because a lot of us don't have the toolkit to deliver what they want. Not to say men aren't getting fucked or that women shouldn't use their brains and realize that because things are different some of their standards are borderline retarded. We are and what sucks the most is there is virtually no help. I simply think the way to go about remedying it isn't to dive toward the bottom of the barrel. Is seeking a perception of fairness really not a drive toward an ideal?
+>I can't help but notice that you're the one holding out for an ideal that hasn't yet materialized
+I am not looking for perfection. I just want an equal. Is that really too much to ask for?
+>Sometimes I think you've just got to take the world as it is, and try to negotiate some form of happiness and dignity within it
+Shouldn't happiness and dignity be something that comes from within you?
+--- 21924693
+>>21920011 (OP)
+--- 21924708
+>>21920044
+we should just bash each other with clubs and sticks
+--- 21924730
+>>21924646
+Anon, life is a series of compromises and trade offs. The world isn't fair, or just, or equal. These are just ideals, and frankly, they're never ideals that I've experienced firsthand. The difference in treatment when you're homeless and people look at you like dog shit, and when youre doing well with money in your pocket and a certain level of status and popularity is day and night. Nobody is going to value you simply for existing, and every relationship has a level of transactional give and take. I've tried having equal relationships and it's been disallusioning every time, and looking back, the reason I was even able to enter those relationships in the first place was because my life was going quite well and any woman would enjoy the lifestyle I was living and want to be a part of that. When life isn't going well, those same women resent me for it, even though I'm the same person.
+
+So am I really a bad person for noticing this? People are motivated by self interest, so taking a position in relationships motivated purely by my own self interests hardly makes me a monster. At least, no more than anyone else. It's not women's fault that my life has been hard, but it's not my fault for no longer believing in ideals that have never materialized in my own life.
+
+>You're done having difficulties at 26? Must be nice. I am in my 30s and shit is still difficult all the time.
+Then get your shit together anon. Most everyone I grew up with was dead or doing life in prison by 25. I've had to start over from nothing multiple times, and have spent an accumulative of my adult life being homeless and living on the streets. If you have the bare minimum of stability to build something and aren't suffering from health issues you really have nobody to blame but yourself.
+--- 21924735
+>>21920044
+The statement in your greentext is a literal tautology. Your parody of the poster you're responding to is formulated as an a priori truth. You're tilting at human reason.
+
+>All bachelors are unmarried
+Yea well if you play with words you can say anything!!
+--- 21924741
+>>21924730
+>accumulative year
+--- 21924827
+>>21924730
+Well, I guess I'll die alone then. if I ever want a pet I'll get a dog. 
+Also, the core of my contention isn't that you're doing human things it's that you're using human things to justify perpetuating the downward trajectory we're collectively on which I think we both agree is if not complete shit then less than good.
+>Then get your shit together anon
+I was more angling towards that more hard times will come and a shoulder to cry on later might be better than never. But you're right I agree with the spirit of your point. I am glad you were able to escape the 25-to-life / coffin route.
+
+Good luck with the immigration paperwork. Shit's a nightmare.
+--- 21924831
+>>21924356
+I know anon and I agree with you. However, being a man means taking responsibility and fixing things. I interjected for one purpose only though, to tell you it's okay to vent, as all those who focus on repression end up committing way more errors down the line. Speaking from experience on that one...
+Basically I really needed someone to tell me it's not my fault but that it is my responsibility to fix things. Maybe it sounds a bit counterintuitive, but after more introspection it should "click". Did for me at least.
+>>21924213
+>I went through what you're describing as well yet you weren't able to pick that up because while unfair and it hurts that no one cares It is still your responsibility to walk out of trauma a functioning human being.
+I agree wholeheartedly. But I think that speaking to people in that manner is nly ensuring they will not find the strength needed for such a task. Much like it's up to a junkie to fix himself, but if his family/people close to him ostracize him he's more likely to OD.
+>I haven't begun kicking anyone while they're down yet
+Yes you did, I can analyze and quote your posts but I don't see much point in doing that.
+>What does it tell you, pussy? 
+It tells me you didn't make peace with who you were and what you went through but are actually still brimming with anger. it might be justified, it might've helped you pick up the slack and get out of the shitter, but it seems you're not yet done with it. Your other posts also show an unresolved inferiority complex towards the "western man". Don't get me wrong I'm from a shithole(saying this just so you don't get the idea I'm a western guy who found himself insulted over this).
+Of course people on 4chan tell each other a lot of things and we're far from a well behaved bunch. However the way you speak to him seems to have a point of convincing him you're right. And insulting that anon/calling him weak makes sure he won't agree with your point of view, so it's contradictory in the very internal logic of your post, not in the sense of the broader chan culture.
+I can go on and gladly will, if there's an audience for these shitposts but I'm not really sure they're worth it.
+--- 21924901
+>>21924827
+Idk anon, having a woman who loves you and wants to be with you is a beautiful thing. It's just that, as I get older, I've started seeing women as more of a prize for having your life together to a considerable degree than an equal partner to share the good and bad times with. When I think about the times that I attracted the most women, it was when I was traveling and backpacking around, when I was in college, and when I was living on a sailboat doing a kind of aquatic 'vanlife' thing. Now I don't want to pretend like I was insanely wealthy or that the women I was attracting were gold diggers who only cared about my money, a lot of it had to do with the fact that these lifestyles offered a deal of excitement and also opportunity to meet women, but let's be realistic, these things were not free either.
+
+I often see people saying things like "when I met my wife we were both broke college students...", but then ignore that college is a gated community that costs ~$30k/year and heavily subsidizes many aspects of your life. Idk, it's a very different experience when you're on the outside looking in.
+
+Being "exciting", "fun", "easy going", etc. all costs money, and there is a brutal economic logic operating behind the facade of carefree youth. Again it's not to say that women are gold diggers, not at all, but when there is a ~$10k pricetag to putting yourself in a position where women find you attractive or worthy of love then of course that's going to have psychological consequences. I wish it didn't.
+
+Id be interested to get a femanons perspective on this conversation actually, since I feel like we're both men talking out of our depth on these things, but those are my observations and feelings on the whole situation. I guess if I could leave you with something it's that you dont have to chose between an ideal romance and dying alone. It's not hard to make yourself appealing to women, but also don't delude yourself about the underlying socioeconomic factors at play, because you will be disappointed if you aren't conscious of love being downstream from your own well being.
+
+>I am glad you were able to escape the 25-to-life / coffin route
+Thanks. It wasn't easy and sometimes I find it hard to believe I'm still alive. I'm glad you were able to overcome your childhood trauma as well, and I hope you find what you're looking for some day. You seem like a really decent guy.
+--- 21924931
+>>21924901
+I had a very intelligent female friend once who was blackpilled about the odds of meeting soulmate-tier men and her term for giving up and just picking a decent normie guy who is at least psychologically normal was "playing house." That always stuck with me. Now that I'm at the age that most of my dating prospects are more or less transparently looking to "play house," likely after 10 years of carefree flings in college and in their early career (which has now stagnated permanently), it's often on my mind. 
+
+I find it a little offensive that so many women in their late 20s and early 30s still think they can play the same game and win the same prizes as they did when they were younger. They don't put in any more effort to entice a man. They keep doing the same things with the same depreciated assets and expecting to get lucky. I think they are victims of their own disproportionate surplus of value in their "early game." Imagine all you have to do is show up and swing your bat, and you hit Babe Ruth homeruns every time. Well, all you will do is show up and swing, for a decade. Then one day that ability disappears, and now you actually have to try a little. But you don't even know what trying is. Even when it's explained to you meticulously, all your mind can think is "sooo, just show up and swing, like I used to, but swing a little harder?" 
+
+You simply can't re-learn how to be a fundamentally effort-based person at 27-33, after the free ride is over. But that is precisely when most men are learning what the meaning and purpose of all their (generally unacknowledged and treated as "par for the course") striving up until that point was about. That's when most men are thinking "wait a minute, I'm actually pretty cool, I have a job, I have prospects, I'm confident, I look and feel better than ever.." And right as they feel that way, they slam face to face, or I should say face to wall, with sad, oddly entitled, childish women, often in debt, with stagnant careers, and a history of being rewarded for acting childish and not confronting their demons and issues. 
+
+I have gone through the same bifurcation you have. I see casual sex as meaningless but fun if you can get it, and I see a relationship as a contractual obligation in which, if you as a woman are going to be an immature goof with a bad career, you can at least make up for it by being a proficient homemaker. I don't mind if you're an immature goof and a prize-winning physicist or successful artist or something. But don't be an immature goof and ask for access to my bank account when you live among cat shit and there are mountains of plates in your sink, and don't even think about talking to me, as your bloody OPENER, about how you like various things that all cost money, and which I'm implicitly going to be providing for you. 
+
+I think the next upcoming generation will learn from the misery of these women, and they will become proverbial: the wine aunts, the "barren generation."
+--- 21924954
+>>21924831
+>But I think that speaking to people in that manner is nly ensuring they will not find the strength needed for such a task
+It's also a form of entertainment. How much responsibility one ought to accept when discussing life on anonymous forum boards? Why are you projecting that standard?
+>but if his family/people close to him ostracize him he's more likely to OD.
+It's a bit of a journey from family to Anonymous, no?
+>Yes you did,
+Obviously, I've been a cunt the entire thread. The point was here comes a higher intensity.
+>but are actually still brimming with anger.
+It is easily on tap. Is there a functional difference between brimming and being able to access it with ease?
+>Your other posts also show an unresolved inferiority complex towards the "western man"
+I'd love to hear more about this. Outside of the initial "western man sure is pathetic" jab at the start that is.
+>However the way you speak to him seems to have a point of convincing him you're right.
+The point is to shitpost while fishing for information. I'd love to be wrong. That's how you learn.
+>And insulting that anon/calling him weak makes sure he won't agree with your point of view, 
+I honestly prefer conflict a lot more than people agreeing with each other. Although that is nice sometimes. It's just not why I post here.
+>I can go on and gladly will, if there's an audience for these shitposts
+Please, do go on. There definitely is.
+>>21924901
+>Idk anon, having a woman who loves you and wants to be with you is a beautiful thing
+I often hear it is.
+There definitely is a price tag to get on the ground floor for men and a lot of it can go over the head of people experiencing the comfort of college life for sure.
+>Id be interested to get a femanons perspective on this conversation actually
+Same. I think that would actually add a lot of value to this conversation. The problem is 
+>femanon here
+Only men and fbi agents, we all know this.
+>I'm glad you were able to overcome your childhood trauma as well, and I hope you find what you're looking for some day. You seem like a really decent guy.
+Thanks man. I truly appreciate that. I've enjoyed our talk. Cheers.
+--- 21925073
+>>21924931
+This is a fair point. I do want to say that not all women fall into this trap, I briefly dated a 34 year old who had spent her youth traveling and enjoying herself, but she also ate healthy (fruits and veg, no sugar, no processed food, no drinking, no drugs) and had a better body at 34 than I did at 25, spoke four languages as a result of her travels, had an unimpressive but comfy government job, and conducted herself in a dignified manner. After we split up she had no problem finding a man who married her fairly quickly, at which point she stopped talking to me because, hey, fair enough.
+
+Incels love to talk about the wall but really it's just that your thirties is when you start to experience the results of efforts put in during your twenties. If you passively drift through life you'll end up a very unimpressive thirty year old. If you spend that time striving to be the best person you can be, you'll start to reap the fruits of your labour. It seems like women have an easier time getting away with just passively existing, which isn't necessarily a good thing. I for one, think we should start doing more to normalize calling women 'losers' and shaming them for being average. It's harsh, but necessary.
+--- 21925128
+>>21925073
+>I for one, think we should start doing more to normalize calling women 'losers' and shaming them for being average. It's harsh, but necessary.
+This happens on its own when all normal human instincts aren't being forced to bend backward and flow in the opposite direction. Men hate whores, so they organically form social consensus around assigning low value to whores as partners, mothers, people in general, etc. Since men create all culture, this comes out in their art, and within a few decades it's simply established that being a whore is social and spiritual suicide. 
+
+Women who are terrified of being whores are in the same position as a child who has an infinitely chargeable credit card, but knows that if he spends over a thousand dollars on it he will be fed to lions after one year. He still has the card. He could theoretically live it up all he wants, charge a trillion dollars to it and make the most of that year. But the lions are coming. 
+
+A few women will still choose to be eaten by lions, of course. But they will serve as highly visible, exceptional warnings to the rest.
+--- 21925179
+>>21925128
+Unlikely. I think you underestimate the transformative power of birth control on society and culture. Casual sex doesn't doom a woman to being a single mother for life, and even most slutty women put on a facade of being 'pure' and even unapproachable while fucking guys on the down low. With most women I've slept with I've never met their friends or family.
+
+I wouldn't even mind marrying a woman with a high body count if she brought other things to the table; lots of money that she showered on me, powerful social connections, providing an exciting lifestyle, etc. The issue is that lots of women in this generation want to have their cake and eat it too, expecting to have the sex life of high status playboys while not offering any of the tangible and intangible perks that those men are exchanging for sex.
+
+When women start whistling at me on the street and asking if I want to go for a spin with them in their expensive sports car or flying me out to Cancun for a weekend romp then I will stop being casually caustic towards them for being hoes. Simple as.
+--- 21925211
+>>21925179
+I don't disagree there, hormonal birth control is satanic and should be banned at the least. It destroys the environment and it makes women functionally psychotic by changing their behavior and their relationship to their own instincts and their own body. Every woman I've known who used birth control and later went off it said she felt like a whole person again, and she now realizes it was stealing something essential from her for all those years. 
+
+Pornography should also be banned and men should be strongly shamed for chasing after women. Also, men's primary "gaze" or orientation should be towards socially useful work that gives immediate status benefits. This can best be provided by a state that provides mostly positive incentives for engaging in non-degenerate and anti-degenerate behavior, and which turns socially useful functions like beautifying one's neighborhood or maintaining old buildings into recognized and celebrated activities instead of "ugly necessities." 
+
+The trick is to capture and channel the better instincts of both genders, while gently dissuading the worst instincts. Men's worst instinct is to coom, and his better instincts are things like ambition, the desire for recognition and respect, and the desire to uphold communal norms and enforce justice, etc. Women's worst instinct is to be a childless childish whore eating at restaurants until the end of time while being handed free money and validation and not caring where it came from as long as it keeps coming in. Her better instincts are things like maternal nurturing, being able to work with unfortunate people and animals and genuinely care about their welfare, being able to work with children and not get bored, and even being able to perform monotonous tasks as long as she is able to socialize with other women throughout the process. 
+
+A lot of this can also be fixed by proper education. Historical and cultural knowledge of one's heritage makes one ashamed to disgrace and neglect it.
+--- 21925351
+>>21920482
+>bro just pay for what everyone gets for free
+--- 21925366
+>>21920479
+That dude is the most insecure self-described ladies man I've ever seen.
+--- 21925376
+>>21923421
+>>21923692
+unironically go to reddit if you cant handle this
+--- 21925415
+>>21920011 (OP)
+Just read a couple chapters of this here and there, and it's definitely not >ABSOLUTELY BRUTAL
+
+This guy obviously has an extremely bad case of oneitis, where he devotes entire chunks of his life obsessing over one woman who very clearly does not like him and openly rejects him over and over. Probably autistic as well, low self confidence and nervous wreck of a man. A broken human being you'd commonly see on /r9k/ (or even /lit/, these days lol). Overall he deserves to be a virgin for the way he treats women. People like him make life a nightmare for some women.
+--- 21925468
+>>21924901
+>but then ignore that college is a gated community that costs ~$30k/year and heavily subsidizes many aspects of your life
+Brutally good point. You never hear "yeah, I met my wife when we were both working at the gas station trying to save our parents' houses." That's more the situation in which I grew up. Funny thing about those hood couples, when they do happen, they stay together FOREVER. The names become synonymous with each other. I think technology may have destroyed that since a nice hoodgirl can just put herself on the digital market and swept up by a dude from the hills.
+--- 21926197
+>>21925415
+The inconvenience you feel is nothing compared the suffering an incel experiences every day Chudette
+--- 21926477
+"[D]espite all odds, people largely feel entitled to, or deserving of, an important love of their life. Statistically and pragmatically this is ridiculous."
+-Rollo Tomassi, "The Rational Male"
+--- 21926483
+>>21925351
+Everyone pays for it, one way or another.
+--- 21926514
+>>21926477
+>One half of the population pairing up with another half and forming an emotionally and socially meaningful relationship is statistically ridiculous
+Shut the fuck up normie.
+--- 21926592
+>>21920743
+Just read it
+Girl kissed his tip then gave him a handy.
+He lays out his failures with women in great detail. Every time it is him fucking things up by being spergy and weird at the absolute wrong moment. I can relate when I was younger but by the time I hit college I had learned more about cringe behavior and to avoid it by not repeating past mistakes. This guy almost never learns and has chance after chance with women throughout his life but always fucks it up. On top of that he has a perpetual case of oneitis, something I can also relate to but learned to break the habit of. He never does.
+Everyone has stories where they fucked up an opportunity with a woman. the problem is when you learn nothing from that and keep doing the same thing. The author is a passive, soft man at heart and a natural pussy dehumidifier. He could have changed himself but refused to and laments about it. Sad but cringy at the same time.
+--- 21926598
+>>21925468
+Women are class traitors fr fr
+--- 21926607
+>>21920011 (OP)
+I don't have to read this. I lived it.
+--- 21926621
+>>21925415
+>People like him make life a nightmare for some women
+Yes, but at the same time those women know he pines for them and use that to their advantage. All of his adult oneitises either rejected him point blank or told him he was just a friend but they didn't cut contact and kept him around to use for their own purposes, emotional or physical as in labor. He is a wreck of a man who makes the same mistakes a thousand times but the women know that and still use him. Look at how many times he goes out on multiple dates with women, paying the whole way, and ends up at their house or at his with the women toying with and physically flirting with him. Even after rejecting his advances they put their legs in his lap, lay in his bed, etc. It's like torturing a retard.
+--- 21926642
+>>21926514
+Jumping to conclusions doesn't exactly strengthen your argument.
+--- 21926655
+>>21926607
+fr fr
+--- 21926673
+>>21926642
+People are entitled to love you atomized fucking faggot. Acting like its some sort of Disney movie impossibility is retarded. It's literally as simple as finding some girl you enjoy hanging out with and sticking together. This idea that love is some impossible thing like a lightening strike, and not just the building of a committed relationship with another human being, is a big reason why we're in this mess in the first place.
+--- 21926682
+>>21920011 (OP)
+
+>whines about not having sex
+
+yeah that's not me
+
+i am a 36 year old virgin neet and love it
+--- 21926698
+99.9 percent of men fuck ugly women
+you are better off as an incel
+--- 21926706
+even the guy from harry potter couldn't get a hot girlfriend
+--- 21926710
+>>21926706
+Isn't he rich? Aren't rich guys supposed to be able to avoid this fate? Is money a lie?
+--- 21926717
+>>21924450
+
+how much were they?
+
+you are paying over 1000k to fuck an ugly mediocre prostittute if you fuck one legally
+
+the cheap ones are all street prostitutes that possibly have stds
+
+
+so you are either a retard who spent over 1k to fuck an ugly girl or you have stds
+--- 21926720
+>>21926706
+>fat
+Being thin automatically raises women by at least 2/10
+If men refused to date, pursue or fuck fat women dating would be better for all
+--- 21926847
+>>21926621
+He wrote an entire memoir, so he clearly has some agency; he was being willfully ignorant with these women in the hopes it would lead to sex but never learned from his mistakes. Fool me once...
+--- 21926870
+>>21920345
+I want to say retard but inside I know you're right
+--- 21926892
+>>21926717
+Many prostitutes who aren't on the street are extremely good looking. You can pay $500-$600 for an hour to sleep with a woman who looks better than a supermodel, and even has a personality to match (if you're into getting to know them). No, I am not making this up. Sure, some might be ugly, but it's just a matter of finding the right one.
+--- 21926908
+>>21920031
+If you're over 30 and haven't had sex you really should just become an ascetic already. Transfigure your libido into God.
+--- 21926917
+>>21920011 (OP)
+--- 21926924
+>>21920345
+>contrary to romans
+What?
+--- 21926939
+>>21926908
+rather stay a degen neet desu
+--- 21926978
+>>21926939
+Be a degen for God, anon.
+--- 21927071
+Unironically, if you have any kind of autistic project that you ever want to see completed then do that rather than obsessing over women that you already know good and well will never want anything to do with you. There’s a reason why Jesus said that it would be better for you to rip your own eyes out before lusting for a woman: hornyness has never produced anything of merit in the history of the world ever. The Roman Empire fell, aside from the material limitations of the slave mode of production, due to a series of successors to the empire who, guess what?!, were the product of weak cum instead of years of ascetic learning or militarial prowess recognized by an impartial senate and ratified by a militarial meritocracy. In short, cumming in a woman and thinking that living cum was kinda cool is the reason we can’t go chill at the aqueduct with the guys.
+Bonus secret knowledge:  just learn how to get good at jacking off. If you can go years and years at it without improving your technique at least a little then there’s no hope for you women or not. If you can’t get better at pleasing yourself how will you ever begin to please a woman? 
+--- 21927151
+Of all the guys I know, I'm the one who had sex with the most women, over 50, all of them prostitutes.
+Despite that I genuinely see myself as a virgin because I never had a normal girl, they are very different experiences.
+--- 21927220
+>>21920479
+For me it's looking back at what I once was. It's a strange mix of pity, cringe and toe-curling disgust

lit/21920117.txt

@@ -381,3 +381,598 @@ I'm stuck in a language limbo.
 --- 21923443
 I notice I use a lot of "as"-s when describing what is happening in a story...
 Is that a sign of bad writing?
+--- 21923516
+>>21923443
+I hate it
+--- 21923535
+>>21923036
+You'd think people love rating stuff, but clearly not.
+--- 21923546
+>>21923330
+>I have to constantly doubt myself and the way I form sentences always seems off to me.
+
+Then you have what it takes to learn and improve.
+--- 21923585
+>>21923535
+
+Impressive numbers anon
+--- 21923794
+>>21923262
+>genre
+NGMI
+--- 21923882
+>>21922458
+I keep saying it's done and working on it and lying to myself about how much I've finished. Poor discipline in writing manuscripts but have stacks of incredibly detailed essays and outlines. 
+I am editing chapter 3 particularly this half of the week. I think one problem is my mind has already shifted to another story. I need to stay focused on what I find compelling with the WIP.
+--- 21923981
+>>21923882
+Overcome the shiny new object syndrome, anon. You can do it.
+--- 21924000
+Can anyone recommend me a list or compendium of short story competitions or magazines or whatever which might actually be worth submitting to?
+
+Feel like the process of being forced to submit stuff would be good for my. 
+
+Should I make a whole post for this?
+--- 21924008
+>>21923030
+what platform is this?
+--- 21924035
+>Character is supposed to be going to a fucked up party 
+>I'm very plain and don't know what a fucked up party looks like
+--- 21924043
+>>21924035
+Time for some hands-on research.
+--- 21924071
+>>21922537
+BASED
+--- 21924090
+>>21922537
+>Yay! I earned $5!!!
+--- 21924147
+>>21922537
+Congrats!
+
+>dealing with discrimination and racism
+too bad, I thought you were based.
+--- 21924275
+>>21924008
+Royal Road.
+--- 21924332
+>>21924147
+It's a story about a Chinaman going to America in the 1800's. And it's not some nonsense about needing to beat the white man. And there are chapters where it's the white man gets discriminated. It's really a more traditional take on the subject matter instead of this woke nonsense we read in stories today.
+
+I also wanted to try to traditionally publish, and leaned on stuff they wanted, and still failed. So who knows what agents want
+--- 21924336
+>>21924332
+NTA, I remember you now. I was in these threads about 10 months ago give or take. Congrats on finally finishing the story.
+--- 21924363
+>>21924332
+Alright that *does* sound good.
+But currently I don't have 10 bucks to spare on bread and wine, much less a book, so maybe I'll read it some other time.
+--- 21924375
+>>21924336
+Thanks
+>>21924363
+I'll put it on Royal road or Wattpad. May as well, not getting readers just throwing it into the void. And if you want a physical copy you can always buy it later. 
+
+One thing I don't like about RR is the ability for people to copy and paste my work.
+--- 21924398
+>>21924332
+What was your attempt at tradpublishing like? How many queries did you send out and did you receive any personalized rejections? It sounds exactly like what they want these days and interesting to boot (maybe it's because the characters are male and not female kek)
+--- 21924411
+I've edited a female protagonist so that she has a secret crush on a fellow student, but is too shy to tell him. Which is contrasted with her generally formidable, no-nonsense outside persona.
+
+I based the character off Fiona Frost from SpyxFamily.
+--- 21924459
+>>21924375
+Don't.
+Do one of those, first 1-2 chapters free, membership/one-time purchase later.
+--- 21924477
+>>21924398
+120 or so. I got about 10 of them past the initial stage but ultimately passed. I just chalked it up to my writing not being good enough and no romance.
+--- 21924515
+>>21924477
+I read the first chapter on kindle and it reads fine. It's the agents and editors job at the houses to edit it to market. And they still won't do it.
+--- 21924535
+>writing a short story set in a fictional Caribbean banana republic
+>the semi-autocratic president has a double
+>the double is having an affair with a sexy Russian femdom mommy
+>the Americans want to install a new president who is named after the parrot from Three Caballeros
+>a famous poet is running for president as well
+I'm having fun. Are you having fun?
+--- 21924547
+>>21924535
+lost me after the first three lines.
+>dropped.
+--- 21924562
+>>21924547
+Oh snab :D
+You better keep reading or else
+--- 21924579
+>>21924535
+Most of my writing is only sorta fun. But one day out of the week I work on my doorstopper which hopefully will have lots of esoteric references and experimental writing style by the time it's done.
+--- 21924582
+>>21924562
+>Trying to threaten me to care about a stale rehashment of political intrigue.
+You'll go far in this world my crustacean friend.
+--- 21924590
+>>21924582
+>rehashment of political intrigue
+It's just classic cold war era spy fiction like James Bond of Pynchon's V.
+Or Red Alert
+--- 21924605
+>>21924590
+>its this thing that's been done to death.
+>that's right its this thing that's been done to death!
+anon i...
+--- 21924630
+How do you not fuck up a narrator who's directly telling his story to the reader as if he is in the same room/in his mind/in a letter?
+
+what are some stories that do this? The only one I know of is Good Old Neon by DFW
+--- 21924636
+>>21924605
+I'll do you to death
+*unzips knife*
+--- 21924643
+>>21924636
+>P-p-please stop and just l-listen to me anon...I-I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU!
+--- 21924653
+>>21924605
+I thought you were just upset because I mentioned Russia but you were just some dummy who can't appreciate sexy KGB women
+--- 21924659
+>>21924630
+what do you mean fuck up? if you want to do a story like that make the guy telling the story some guy talking to his court mandated shrink or his lawyer or his confessor. an excellent example of this I mentioned a few threads back is The Usual Suspects, where the guy telling the story is giving his statement to a police detective. alternately, if it's in written form, make it a manifesto.
+I still don't know what you mean by fuck up tho
+--- 21924674
+>>21924653
+>I was into cat-suited Russians sloots before you were in yer diapers Johnny!
+--- 21924676
+>>21924630
+The Turn of the Screw
+The Island of Dr. Moreau
+Frankenstein
+Dracula
+The Moonstone (<- great, several entertaining examples of the epistolary narrator)
+just to name a few off the top of my head. 18th and 19th-century lit has a wealth of this kind of format, as it was insanely popular at the time. If you want modern examples, maybe someone else can help you.
+--- 21924678
+>>21924674
+God he's based.
+--- 21924692
+>>21924659
+yeah idk what I was thinking. I think the term is "frame narrative."
+The story I'm thinking of writing involves the narrator talking to some spirit or presence in his mind which I was thinking of having be the reader but I don't think it'll work since the reader is ultimately reading it and not listening, so maybe it should just be some stand-in. Once the narrator stops telling his story I was also thinking of switching it to 3rd person for the final chapter to tie everything up but I don't know if that's a good idea.
+--- 21924701
+>>21924590
+Red Alert isn't a great book. It's not like Kubrick is choosing books on how good or famous they are, because he's looking for books that his movie can overshadow.
+--- 21924707
+>>21924701
+>book
+Anon...
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_U59u69tys [Embed]
+--- 21924710
+>>21920117 (OP)
+Literally just fed every line of a chapter into CHATGPT and it wrote it so much better than I did. I give up, writing is dead.
+--- 21924719
+>>21924710
+Only in paragraph form. If you put it into a long form it reads like an academic essay . It uses very little literary techniques to make the reading less dull
+--- 21924722
+>>21924477
+Jesus that's bleak. You passed? Just tired of playing the game?
+--- 21924725
+>>21924710
+>did the same thing.
+>mine is better
+--- 21924736
+>>21924719
+You're right, I'm just anxious about the amount of times a sentence stumped me today and just putting it into this fucking robot just instantly solved the problem. I know I would have gotten there naturally, but this method just allows me move on and get my pages out.
+
+Feels bad, man.
+--- 21924743
+>>21924736
+Why does it feel bad to use a tool which improves your process and craft?
+--- 21924749
+>>21924722
+Just got tired of writing queries every night. And the more I did it the more I realized it's not worth the trouble. The biggest names and books today have publishers seek out the author and not the other way around. I hitching my horse on this business model.
+
+Look at Coleen Hoover, Erin Mortensen and Andy Weir. Even Delia Owens. She just wrote crawdads for fun. With YouTube and social media, the author becomes a business themselves. Publishers are now forced to go out and find books.
+--- 21924759
+>>21924743
+--- 21924796
+>>21924659
+also, doesn't it get kinda ridiculous when you have a narrator telling a story to his lawyer or whatever that takes 7 hours to read? I guess you'd have to work in some breaks between. How would that work? I can only see that working if the primary narrator is the guy who the secondary narrator is talking to.
+
+either way, I was thinking more about the narrator addressing the reader directly or at least some stand-in for the reader who doesn't talk as if they were in his mind or something.
+--- 21924803
+What do I do with the ~180,000 word sword and sorcery short story collection I wrote? Trad publishing is out because there's no market for short story collections right? Do I split up each story and try to sell them to fantasy magazines or do I self publish?
+--- 21924833
+>>21923535
+Beyond the content and quality of the story, is getting a lot of views just really based on the quantity you put out for an individual story? I have seven chapters posted at about 17k words and I’ve only gotten 160 views.
+--- 21924847
+>>21924796
+>How would that work?
+you have 2 plots going at once. the present day one, very limited in scope, and the longer story your narrator tells. then both stories intersect at the end. so for the guy talking to his public defender you start the story in present tense in the present, he's in jail and they get acquainted. then his story starts. the breaks that occur you have the lawyer give the guy a brief update on his case and then he asks for more clarifying details about something he read in the file. the whole story can physically take place in an interrogation room, it just may take multiple days of time to do so. which isn't a big deal.
+
+> I was thinking more about the narrator addressing the reader directly or at least some stand-in for the reader who doesn't talk as if they were in his mind or something.
+a confessor would be an appropriate means of doing this. he can ask the guy to come back at later dates. of course in these stories the mc character would probably be the lawyer/confessor
+--- 21924859
+>>21924803
+how many stories?
+honestly I'd release them on royal road or scribblehub, use that as an opportunity to get readers and feedback, and then you should release them on kindle afterwards
+--- 21924865
+>>21922537
+I'm liking it anon but haven't finished it yet. When the fuck am I getting my copy of The Emily Project?
+--- 21924870
+>>21924749
+I see... Waldun and Daniel Greene made tons of money off their platforms instead of getting a publisher.
+--- 21924871
+>>21924859
+9, one is novella length and the rest are short stories.
+--- 21924877
+>>21924833
+I think that a more important stat is the average views. He has 270k views with an average of nearly 1500. I've got 50k views with 350 average. His story is twice as long as mine, but his average is 5x mine.
+--- 21924882
+>>21924759
+Delete this
+--- 21924902
+I've always wondered if contemporary literature sucks because we're only publishing "marginalized" ""voices"" without an iota of real talent, with nothing to say, with little practice, who refuse to engage with the great works of the artform. 
+And then I read /wg/, a general filled with white male writers, and realize that I was wrong. There's just no talent anymore.
+--- 21924907
+>>21924847
+I'm not thinking about a confessor as a real physical person. The narrator is not exactly in the real world when telling the story. I want the confessor to be a silent listener or presence which the reader can easily put himself into, or maybe the presence itself is the reader(that detail is not really important). 
+To illustrate: It would look like to an outsider that the narrator is talking to himself, but there is actually something listening to him in his mind, not that anyone would see him since the narrator is, again, outside reality at the moment (ok, he's in a dream reliving memories), and he wouldn't even have to speak out loud since the listener can hear his thoughts. I'm just unsure about this formula, that it might rely too much on suspension of disbelief.
+--- 21924914
+>>21924902
+did you write anything?
+--- 21924915
+>>21924902
+I'll admit, that was a funny bit of crabbery.
+--- 21924916
+>>21924902
+
+Well lets see your work if you're so great.
+--- 21924919
+Request source for this quote. I thought it might be Henry James, but don’t believe so now
+It goes something like…
+
+“Life is a slow advance into enemy territory”
+--- 21924939
+>>21924749
+Thanks for answering. I don't want to become a brand, bros. Is there any hope? 
+https://www.authormedia.com/2022-social-media-marketing-guide-for-authors/
+> Trolls are using Goodreads to extort money from authors. The threat goes something like this: “Pay me $100, or my army of bots will give you 100 1-star reviews saying you are a racist.” 
+kek. it's so fucking over
+--- 21924953
+>>21924865
+Thanks anon! You should probably buy the newer version 
+
+https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BFTWLL86
+--- 21924957
+>>21924833
+I have no idea. When you look at RR's front page, there are stories that are barely two weeks old, have only a handful of chapters posted, yet already have 3000+ followers and hundreds of thousands of pageviews. They might not even have very good ratings. And then there are others that are entirely ignored. Even though both might be in the same genre and just as shit. 
+
+I guess the popular guys just have more friends outside RR.
+--- 21924958
+>>21924939
+Lol that's just sad..
+--- 21924971
+>>21924939
+And I thought we crabbed each other
+--- 21925011
+>>21924939
+How is that even a threat? You just report it to GR with evidence it was blackmail and they get banned, and should remove reviews with a certain timeframe if not all of them. As long as you are getting people talking about the book the real reviews should keep coming in, if not do a book giveaway or the standard things.
+--- 21925076
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4waw6W7V_cA [Embed]
+--- 21925095
+I'm only going to share my novel with one internet friend but I've been procrastinating for months because I'm terrified of putting myself out there. It's ended in disaster so many times that writing becomes emotionally draining.
+--- 21925137
+>>21924907
+okay. but the question is: why do you want to do it like that? how does doing it that way add value to the story?
+--- 21925192
+>>21925137
+what do you mean by value?
+because it removes unnecessary secondary narrators? Because it puts the reader in the story? Because that is the story? His story is not something a confessor(he's not Christian nor European), or a lawyer, or a detective, has any interest in hearing. It's just him speaking to the audience.
+--- 21925203
+>>21925095
+You really should share it anonymously here. Especially if you've written a book before. The anonymity helps get more honest opinions based on the work alone and your new works won't get compared to your older ones.
+--- 21925205
+>>21925192
+>It's just him speaking to the audience.
+okay. but what does the reader gain from having the story told that way as opposed to 3rd person? if he was in prison and narrating his autobiography to himself and then at the end of the book he escapes, that would be a valuable use of having a narrator like that. if he's simply sitting in a formless void and he's rambling on and then the story ends, there's no value gained from telling the story like that. it's kind of a letdown because the reader will be expecting some sort of development that never comes.
+--- 21925214
+im gonna die in irrelevancy arent i?
+--- 21925217
+>>21925214
+In these cases it's usually some combination of bad cover, bad description, bad tags, slow initial updates, or bad first chapter.
+--- 21925218
+>>21925214
+if you go running for the razors right now, yes. but don't dump your chapters. get a schedule and stick to it
+--- 21925238
+>>21925203
+That is a good idea but people on here have torn my writing to shreds and only deepened my fears.
+--- 21925242
+>>21925238
+have you tried being less of a fag?
+--- 21925244
+>>21925238
+share it anyway. get hit and get back up. im >>21925214 and theres nothing worse than getting no feedback at all
+--- 21925245
+>>21925238
+How can you get better if you don't know where you're going wrong?
+--- 21925251
+>>21925238
+Good. People tore my writing to shreads too, but look at the new comments:
+
+>>21922603
+>>21922855
+Praises anon. Praises! Keep going. I even think one of us is a legit published author or editor trying to score the next big book. No way publishers are trowing around here and reddit to get the jump on the "next big thing." All the movie deals, rights, toys and whatnot are too big of a temptation to pass up.
+--- 21925253
+>>21925214
+since you didn't even link to it, yes
+--- 21925264
+>>21925205
+>but what does the reader gain from having the story told that way as opposed to 3rd person?
+that's obvious. It allows the story to be told from his perspective, which is unreliable. If he's writing an autobiography, he can edit out his mistakes and contradictions.
+
+>if he's simply sitting in a formless void and he's rambling on and then the story ends, there's no value gained from telling the story like that. it's kind of a letdown because the reader will be expecting some sort of development that never comes.
+I think you are assuming things that you have no context for now. Did I tell you that there wouldn't be any sort of development? and a dream is not simply a formless void, the man is literally walking down memory lane. he's not rambling, he's telling a story whilst intermittently commenting on it.
+--- 21925267
+>>21925242
+>>21925251
+>>21925245
+>>21925251
+The trouble is most people on here just say my stuff is cringeworthy shit and it makes me seem like I'm a pussyless faggot which, however true, only brings me down.
+--- 21925279
+>>21925253
+you want me to shill? okay
+https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/66296/himemonogatari
+--- 21925308
+>>21925279
+>Life sucked and it wasn't getting any better for anyone. People lived in a grey world and reveled in their sorrow. Though they could move their hands they never sought to change their circumstance around. Made worse was underlying shadows creeping under the world's feet. If no one was going to act then the Protagonist would as a protagonist should. Taking the role as the world's savior, a hero of light, the protagonist would be followed by a party of like minded individuals rejected by society for choosing to paint the world in color rather than grey. Kindness and compassion was the solution, or so it should be. This was not only their new beginnings but also their new ends.
+Protagonist? Seriously? Did chatgpt write this absolute generic as generic gets slop? Be honest.
+--- 21925325
+>>21925279
+Anon, your description/summary is way too generic and could be applied to almost anyone or anything. Why should we, the potential readers, care about your protagonist in particular? There must be some reason, otherwise you wouldn't bother writing your story, right? Name the protag in your synopsis. Talk about the traits that make him stand out and the aspects of your story that make it unique among millions of others. 
+Also, the title is not doing it any favors in terms of standing out. I guarantee that these two factors are contributing to your low views.
+--- 21925354
+>>21925308
+>>21925325
+filtered....
+--- 21925361
+>>21925354
+given the number of views we're in good company
+fix that shit, retard
+--- 21925437
+>>21923262
+i can't for the life of me come up with comp titles, especially ones under 2 years old. fuck agents who demand that. 
+
+whatever summary i come up with never encapsulates the entire work, at best i get a small piece of it, and it never seems good enough and always feels like a bit of a lie. plus whenver i write, the first couple chapters are always somewhat uninteresting compared to the rest of the book, because i have nothing to work with yet because i haven't set up anything. (i am NOT talking about info dumping or "world building"). they dont know who these characters are or what is going on, and if there's a complicated situation that unfolds over the course of events that isn't going to be apparent in the first page or two, which is all agents bother to read, if anything. i can have nice writing, i can throw in some kind of hook, but it all feels cheap. there's nothign to be done about it but it's so god damned frustrating
+
+not that i would ever get published anyway because i'm not a brown faggot with an mfa living in brooklyn
+--- 21925438
+>>21925354
+>filtered
+>posts picture of Seudeo Hackjima. 
+I'll get back to this when I read your story, but your post makes you look like a huge faggot.
+--- 21925483
+Is everyone here literally just writing great big bloated 100,000 word le fantasy epics talking about fetching water from the well and magic swords and characters like Glythwnediel and Brømbolom etc?
+Is anyone here writing short stories? Taut prose?
+--- 21925490
+>>21925483
+join me in the effort to expel /sffg/ manchildren from /wg/
+--- 21925496
+>>21920832
+if you got stabbed in the head you wouldn't be thinking about anything. You'd lose consciousness almost instantly.
+--- 21925503
+>>21925483
+I'm writing short stories inspired by the Gothic tradition as well as some mystery novels, but I know how well those are received on /lit/ so I just give feedback and advice and never share anything.
+--- 21925510
+>>21925483
+Wing wrote a historical fiction and 2 people bought it.
+--- 21925517
+>>21925510
+>Wing wrote
+Tf is wing?
+--- 21925521
+>>21925483
+I would write something else, but fantasy romance is by far and large the genre that gets the readers. Why write a war story if nobody wants to read it?
+--- 21925524
+>>21925517
+KK Wing
+aka
+Ku Klux Wing
+the slant eyed slope slaughtering king
+--- 21925525
+>>21925521
+Because it matters to you and for the love of craft
+--- 21925527
+>>21925517
+This guy
+>>21922537
+--- 21925548
+>>21925525
+writing a fantasy war is less politically charged because you can't glorify any modern conflict because they've all been in proxy wars in shithole countries over communism, oil or israeli interests. modern audiences don't have a respect for kino wars like crimea or the 1st world war and the 2nd world war is just evil europe white people bad. so I'll write a war story but it's going to involve fantasy because it'll help prevent me from getting cancelled and because modern war has no glory whatsoever
+--- 21925549
+>>21925483
+I'm not like those other fantasy writers I hope
+--- 21925582
+>>21925549
+nlogging sffg
+--- 21925633
+>>21925582
+I don't have a high enough power level to know what this means
+--- 21925668
+>>21925483
+I am writing a Gothic short story, though I think it’ll need much editing before I post it here for criticism.
+--- 21925682
+>>21925668
+I'm >>21925503 and looking forward to your story anon
+--- 21925684
+>>21925483
+I like to write fantasy and science fiction short stories, but I usually try to make them feel more grounded rather than your usual fantasy fare.
+I only have one setting that I'd actually call high fantasy, and I just use that to tell adventure stories about navy captains and colonial wars (basically hornblower in a fantasy setting). The rest are usually just reality or an alternate history plus a couple fantastic elements.
+ I also try to stick to normal names, for example the main character of my fantasy stories is named Felix.
+--- 21925698
+>>21925548
+basically every war in history has been about money or property in some way or form. Even the absolute kino of the 19th century was all about rubber, wood, slaves. molasses, and occasionally land.
+--- 21925702
+>>21920125
+I have been trying to hit 2000 words every day. It makes a novel go by pretty quick. About to finish my third novel and start my fourth. Instead of writing, I ate some popcorn and came here.
+--- 21925713
+>>21925214
+Publishing on RR, yes. Absolutely.
+--- 21925723
+>>21925684
+names can be tough. the protagonist characters I have use british names (england, ireland, scotland) but for the others I'm thinking more eastern european and persian. so the royal family's name I think is Teres, from the greek - or at least one of the more important noble character's surname is Teres. the vampire girl's first name is going to be Talia, because vampires are, of course, jewish and homosexual
+--- 21925731
+>>21925279
+I'll be real fampai. First two lines didn't hook me and that was enough to look away and resume my shitposting.
+--- 21925761
+>>21925723
+What a coincidence, I had a vampire in one of my stories. I gave him more of a Transylvanian sounding name. I never ended up using him though, and now I can't remember what it was. I did the race of bat people who all had Hungarian or Romanian sounding names.
+Place names are the really hard part. I always struggle coming up with place names that fit the mood and don't sound like made up bullshit.
+--- 21925787
+>>21925761
+For the city I'm calling it Ziena, after pic related. pic related is also related to the mc's internal conflict, as wel, her name's Katel. its a hugely important trade city they thought they were just going to be passing through on the way to their final destination, but due to inclement weather (heavy snowfall) and the fact that the city has been hit with plague it's currently under quarantine and they find they can't leave like they thought then could. when she sees the city in the distance it's got clouds of smoke above it because they're burning corpses, not just because it's winter.
+--- 21925795
+>>21925787
+*Kate, not Katel. katel isn't a very english name I don't think
+--- 21925888
+How's this for an opening to a short story?
+
+
+ “Jesus, look at that thing.” Jeff said, peering through the view port. It sat on the ground in the corner of the cell. It was shaped roughly like a person, but it obviously wasn't human. Pale white skin stretched over a narrow, sinewy frame. Boney fingers, ended with sharp, knife-like, claws, hung from long, slender arms. The legs were slim, muscular, and like the arms, disproportionately long. Its head slouched forward between its knees. The face, obscured by long masses of frayed white hair, which fell to its shoulders, down its back, and over its chest. Though Jeff wasn't sure how much of that was hair. It had rough white fur running from its shoulders down its arms and chest.
+
+ “Oh, you don't know the half of it.” Mike replied, taking a sip of his coffee. 
+
+ Jeff kept his eyes fixed on the creature, “What do you mean?”
+
+ Mike took another sip of his coffee, then stepped behind Jeff to get a better view, “That's subject 14, came in about six months ago. Its sent four people to ER since then.”
+
+ “Really?” Jeff said.
+
+ “Yeah, its got a nasty bite. If it bites you-” Mike pauses to take a bite of his doughnut. “you'll have to get stuck with three different anti-venoms, and a load of antibiotics.” 
+
+ “Shit.” Jeff responded.
+
+ Mike finished his doughnut, then took another swig off coffee, “That's not even the worst part, damn thing's smart too. Breached containment three separate times. Now we can't even feed it without two armed guards present.”
+
+ “I'm really starting to regret taking this job.” Jeff said, turning back to the view port. He shuddered when he saw it, looking right at him. Its eyes shined white as it stared at him. Its jaws, canine in shape, were strong and thick. As he stared, its lips peeled back to reveal rows of jagged yellow teeth that twisted into a crooked smile.
+
+ He jolted back as the view port slammed shut. Mike took his hand from the view port control panel “You'll be fine as long, as you follow the safety protocols.”
+--- 21925948
+>>21925888
+>Though Jeff wasn't sure how much of that was hair.
+I'd drop the 'though' at the start, just sounds better to me.
+>It had rough white fur running from its shoulders down its arms and chest.
+I think that talking about its hair and then the fur reads oddly to me, like you wrote the first part and then tacked on the part about the fur. I don't have an exact way to make it read better, and it might not bother other people.
+>“Yeah, its got a nasty bite. If it bites you-” Mike pauses to take a bite of his doughnut. “you'll have to get stuck with three different anti-venoms, and a load of antibiotics.”
+I'd drop either the 'nasty bite' or 'if it bites you'. Having both back to back is repetitive.
+Also, too many spaces between lines, makes the whole thing disconnected even though this is more or less a single conversation broken up only by the description.
+--- 21925962
+>>21925948
+The line spaces are there because 4chan fucks up indentation. They're just to make it easier to tell when the paragraphs end. They aren't present in the actual work itself.
+--- 21925965
+>>21925888
+>"Really?" Jeff said
+cut Jeff said
+>"Shit." Jeff responded
+cut Jeff respnded
+I think you have the dialogue punctuation backwards, commas where periods should go and then periods where commas should be
+>"Jesus, look at that thing," Jeff said, peering through the view port
+>Jeff kept his eyes fixed on the creature. "What do you mean?"
+--- 21926088
+>>21922537
+You know what. I'm buying your book. Better be good, fucker.
+--- 21926295
+>>21925437
+>comp titles
+--- 21926299
+>>21925888
+Are you aware of SCP?
+https://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/
+--- 21926307
+>>21926299
+Its more of an umbrella corporation type thing going on than an scp foundation.
+--- 21926321
+>>21926307
+You say potato, I say potato...
+--- 21926351
+>>21925888
+Why do people keep mixing up tenses? Like don't they read what they write?
+--- 21926374
+>>21926321
+Well one's collecting supernatural horrors, the other's creating unnatural horrors.
+--- 21926414
+Does anyone have an awkward time with describing people's appearances, especially their clothing? It's important and I always feel like I'm glossing over it with "He wore a grey coat"
+Especially when I'm talking about nameless background citizens and the like
+--- 21926419
+>>21926414
+my big problem with character descriptions is that when a character enters dramatically, it reads bad to stop the action to spend a paragraph describing them
+--- 21926537
+>>21926419
+Kek I'm dealing with this exact issue as we speak and came to /wg/ to procrastinate.
+>>21926414
+if they're a nameless citizen, do they need any description?
+--- 21926540
+i'm going to do it. I'm recording an audiobook of my own novel. i did the first section and it is passable, and i'll get better with practice. i garble my words sometimes but retakes on lines are easy if i do them immediately. and audacity is easy enough to use for something this basic.
+
+downside, turns out the sound of swiping the laptop touchpad to scroll down is audible in the recording so i have to read off my phone
+--- 21926567
+>>21926414
+>It's important
+no, it really isn't, not unless it's distinct and out of the ordinary. like a sailor on ship, there's no reason to describe his clothes, if you say scraggly beard that's more than enough your reader already has an image in their mind's eye
+--- 21926605
+>>21924736
+I don't undersyand, do people have trouble forming sentences? My only issue is precise word choice or specific structure for the sake of subtlety or greater allusion, which I can't imagine a chat AI could help with at all because what I'm trying to do is use language to match an extremely autistic vision/feeling in my head.
+
+Like a chatbot can communicate an idea in words, but it can't communicate ten different contradictory senses in words at the same time.
+
+If anything I think AI art is much better at this because it's innate incompetence due to flaws in the process allows the viewer to project more onto the composition, which is much simpler in a visual medium than in writing.
+--- 21926821
+Decided to start writing a novel I had an idea for recently, here's the opening paragraph, any advice anons, its got problems, but I think it has potential.
+>Dawn lay just over an hour or so away he presumed, based off of the growing chatter as >the robins and cardinals arose from their sleep and called out into the early morning >gloom which was patchily broken by the neatly spaced street light shortly protruding >from their worn wooden pillars. He should go to sleep he thought to himself, soon the sun >would be up, and so would his parents, and the clamour and light surely would interrupt >any attempts to fall asleep, but he had all but any chance of falling asleep at this time had >all but been put to rest when he took that Adderall at half past one.
+--- 21926822
+What 5 "classes" goes against these 5?
+
+Paladin
+Priestess
+Fairy Elementalist
+Barbarian
+Rogue
+
+I'm writing a silly fantasy story in which the Dark Lord needs to gather 4 other companions to do battle against those 5, but can't think of any classes to fight against the 5 typical hero classes.
+--- 21926824
+>>21926821
+Fuck just realized I fucked up formatting, plus made error in the last sentence.
+--- 21926828
+>>21926821
+>The robins and cardinals arose from their sleep and called out into the early morning gloom which was patchily broken by the neatly spaced street light shortly protruding from their worn wooden pillars.
+This doesn't even make sense. 
+>He should go to sleep he thought to himself, soon the sun would be up, and so would his parents, and the clamour and light surely would interrupt any attempts to fall asleep, but he had all but any chance of falling asleep at this time had all but been put to rest when he took that Adderall at half past one.
+Nor does this.
+
+Just write
+>Any attempts to fall asleep would fail because he took Adderall at 1:30.
+--- 21926835
+>>21926822
+>Paladin
+Deathknight or another Paladin i.e a zealot for a god considered evil by your hero paladin, might not even need to make him directly evil.
+>Priestess
+Poisoner/Hexer whose attacks actively fight against miracles.
+>Fairy Elementalist
+I don't really know what that means. So I'm going to assume it has something to do with fairy tricks. If that is the case then some kind of anti-magic class who dispels illusions.
+>Barbarian
+Archer/Ranger who fights from a distance. Bonus points if some kind of ratman who can slip around in places that the barbarian is too physically large to chase him through.
+>Rogue
+Perhaps druid or blood mage who uses transformation magic to give themselves more heads/more/better eyes to negate their attempts at sealth.
+--- 21926843
+>>21926835
+thanks!
+--- 21926894
+>>21926828
+I'll just add semi-colons and conjunctions to the first sentence, I fucked up the second part though I do realize.
+--- 21927080
+>3rd day of editing 
+>Where does 'and' go?
+>Where does 'as' belong?
+>WHAT EVEN IS 'WHILE'?!?!?!?

lit/21920562.txt

@@ -153,3 +153,125 @@ The White Rainbow
 --- 21923026
 >>21923021
 The white rainbow by who? I looked it up and there's multiple people who have authored a book with that title.
+--- 21923629
+>>21923021
+>>21923026
+Fuck don't leave me hanging man. Did you mean the novel by Alan Harrington?
+--- 21924523
+https://youtu.be/RwUJBaTUqNY?t=49 [Embed]
+--- 21924623
+>>21924550
+--- 21924637
+>>21920877
+native son of course
+--- 21924688
+>>21924665
+my diary
+--- 21924696
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21924731
+>>21921957
+(The Lusiads) OS LUSÍADAS
+--- 21924737
+>>21922031
+That's not what the movie is about
+--- 21924825
+>>21920562 (OP)
+something not written by bruno schulz
+--- 21924842
+>>21924550
+the private memoirs and confessions of a justified sinner
+--- 21924850
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21924885
+>>21924550
+Subahibi
+--- 21924903
+>>21920575
+The Painted Bird
+--- 21924909
+>>21920629
+Wuthering Heights
+--- 21925557
+>>21922960
+Burning Daylight
+--- 21925607
+no nonfiction
+--- 21925741
+>>21922053
+After 25 years of misery and loneliness I feel like I've finally found the love of my life. We both feel like we have known each other for months after just talking for a day. As of now (15 days after writing to each other for the first time) we are together and we love each other deeply. Never give up. It's never too late, there is always something out there. 
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lK4LrD8Ii4 [Embed]
+--- 21925752
+>>21925741
+the gifts of the crow
+--- 21925811
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21925831
+>>21922519
+The Religion by Tim Willocks was a fun read
+--- 21925833
+>>21924731
+>>21923006
+thanks, will check them out!
+--- 21925846
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21925854
+>>21925846
+yurope: the american invasion
+--- 21925859
+>>21924960
+umineko unironically
+--- 21925868
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21925988
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21926013
+>>21925988
+the faerie queene
+>>21925974
+redburn: his first voyage
+>>21925871
+the encantadas
+--- 21926083
+>One day and seven hours.
+>Still no cheeseburger cate recommendations.
+>I can never has cheeseburger. Not even read about cheeseburger.
+--- 21926164
+>>21920562 (OP)
+--- 21926191
+Totally not related to a fetish. Nope, not at all.
+--- 21926449
+>>21925871
+Midworld
+--- 21926533
+>>21920629
+Notes from the Underground
+--- 21926538
+>>21922033
+Meditations by Marcus Aurelius
+--- 21926539
+>>21926191
+The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar
+--- 21926542
+>>21923006
+auld licht idyls
+--- 21926544
+>>21923015
+The Organon
+--- 21926548
+>>21926539
+Good recomendation.
+--- 21926551
+>>21924825
+Great Expectations
+--- 21926556
+>>21925988
+Doctor Faustus
+--- 21927348
+>inb4 you need to be 18 to post here
+
+Recommend me a book where the main character is a monster. No, not a horrible person, a story about a literal fucking animal, doing cool animal things. Preferably one where it can’t even speak and is not anthropomorphized.
+--- 21927363
+>>21927348
+Writing your suggestion with a vaguely tangentially related picture goes against the spirit of the thread.

lit/21920607.txt

@@ -28,3 +28,37 @@ Not sure but I read that in Kokovoko the chiefs would use people as furniture.
 --- 21922377
 >>21920607 (OP)
 Myths and Legends of Hawaii is kino gothic history. Written by the last king of Hawaii and it's full of interesting stuff like how the Hawaiians are the lost tribe of Israel and were in contact with some Japanese samurai in 1100AD
+--- 21923658
+>>21920607 (OP)
+Didn't RLS move to the South Seas and write some stuff there
+--- 21923761
+No I wouldn't say specifically a literary masterpiece but the spoken word mythology is rich and a true treasure to human kind, dating back thousands of years. The story's have parallels to other creation myths from around the globe, but in a unique context from being separated from everyone else for thousands of years, there's little nuggets in there that give you a glimpse into ancient thought. It's got some heavy super natural content in it, like killing all your female ancestors to gain super powers. It is also wonderfully patriarchal and as much as Maori scholars these days are all liberal, the real shit is not at all. 
+
+
+Anyway Moby Dick came from the South Pacific, kind of...
+--- 21923797
+>>21922377
+
+>Lost tribe of Israel. 
+
+Some of the mythology is so biblical that when I read it, I thought this is just some shit the missionary's told the Maori and then they added boats. But it isn't, it's as old as when they left Asia 3000+ years ago. The concepts of space and time, structure of the universe, mans place in it are very interesting.
+--- 21925037
+>>21920607 (OP)
+i bet some of the shit on the rongorongo tablets was kino when heard read aloud
+--- 21926217
+>>21920607 (OP)
+No, nowhere outside of western europe has.
+--- 21926238
+>>21923797
+South Pacific civilization is interesting as fuck. Even some native tribes in the PNW can trace their origin back to the mythical land of "Hav'aii". It's crazy to think that one of the worlds great civilizations formed not on land, but over an entire ocean, and that most people know almost nothing about it.
+--- 21926513
+>>21926238
+it is interesting too because it's an oral tradition and a lot of the stories and languages between the Pacific nations, and even the North Americans, are similar and that just shows you how old it really is.
+For example, Maori also have a mythical land but its called "Hawaiki"
+--- 21926562
+>>21926238
+
+
+Yeah it isn't so much a huge civilization that was making stone structures. As far as that goes they weren't there yet. But they were traveling around on boats and trading across a large area, when other cultures had barely left the Mediterranean. They had sweet potato from south America, and the mythology around sweet potato is a story of an explorer traveling to a star in the east and returning with sweet potato. Captain cook took a Tahitian with him to NZ, this guy was able to draw a detailed map of the society islands, many of which he had never been to, he only knew by spoken word. It was accurate enough to safely navigate reefs and currents. 
+
+This is a panel off of a boat found in NZ, dated to around 1300CE, it's built from NZ timber. It's not some hollowed out log like what Maori were using when Europeans arrived, it's a freaking panel with a ribbed structure. Obviously to make it float they'd have to have sealed it or used seaweed pontoons or something sophisticated like that. I hope more old shit like this turns up in the future.

lit/21921102.txt

@@ -569,3 +569,698 @@ With a kind of double irony, the corridor of five story high trees
 And the faces of beautiful athletes..
 --- 21923451
 /lit/ will never know how much I like them...
+--- 21923478
+>POV: you just suggested to an american that he could refrain from paying a doctor to mutilate the genitals of his infant son in a semitic ritualistic blood sacrifice
+My favorite thing about whenever circumcision comes up, and it is correctly pointed out that it is a completely deranged practice, is that some american cunt of a woman just cannot help herself from participating and saying that she prefers the visual aesthetic of a circumcized dick. 
+
+I absolutely, genuinely love that, because of all the implications of thinking this preference has to be mentioned as a weighty argument - it betrays such a profoundly aristocratic spirit, to say it without even a shred of irony or self-awareness, that you think the other sex should be subjected to routine and non-consensual plastic surgery because of your preferences. It is the kind of master morality that would make nazi eugenicists blush. I can't really decide for myself whether I think the obliviousness of how deranged it is makes it better or worse. On some level, I think not even registering how deranged it is makes it even more based, like it is so natural that the world should conform to your most minor, inconsequential and frivolous desires, that you are not even able to see a problem with amputating body parts off of infants to make it so.
+
+However, it can be cringe, because it is a particularly glaring example of all the little cracks and dissonances that occur in trying to pretend like we are egalitarian and aren't sexist. A man suggesting routine labioplasty to infant girls to remove beef curtains, because of his preference, would be publicly executed. A woman doing the same is seen as making a worthwhile contribution to a discussion. The cringy aspect occurs when people correctly identify the aristocratic impulse of the women, but then women for some reason feel like they have to pretend like the two things are different. That produces and endless array of cope and cringe. 
+
+That is my favorite thing about circumcision debates. My least favorite, by far, are the men who subjugate themselves to the women's desires, as these men perceive them. This is an entire family of pro-mutilation arguments, but one of the worst ones is that a circumcized dick lasts longer before orgasm because of less sensation, and that this is better for the woman's pleasure. 
+Mutilating the dick of your son because you (falsely) believe that it will increase women's sexual pleasure is a level of extreme bizarre BDSM femdom that a professional dominatrix would reject as being neither safe, sane nor, in the case of an infant being mutilated, consensual. But men will present it as an argument. Deranged, just absolutely deranged.
+
+I fully get that most of the deranged stuff coming from the pro-mutilation camp is because they weren't given a choice and have to cope. But I think it is interesting to dissect (heh) nonetheless, both for its own sake, and also so that the cycle of abuse might be broken.
+--- 21923507
+>>21923478
+>be european baby
+>most significant early experience in life is being laid on your mother's chest
+>synchronize with her relaxed heartrate and breathing
+>the literal ontogenesis of the nervous system happens in the radiant glow of your mother's comfort and warmth
+>you are completely helpless and your first significant experience with the world is that it will look after you and protect you
+
+>be american baby
+>most significant early experience in life is being laid on a cold piece of plastic 
+>strapped down and blasted with blinding surgical light
+>the literal ontogenesis of your nervous system happens as a doctor uses icy surgical tools to slice and amputate the most sensitive parts of your body without sedation or painkillers 
+>you are completely helpless and your first significant experience with the world is that it will torture you for fun 
+
+One of my schizo-theories is that the primary target of demoralization during circumcision is actually the father, and that is part of the reason why it finds its root in religions that demand you to be servile. I can't think of any way to break a man's spirit more extremely or profoundly than by taking away his newborn son to mutiliate his genitals and demanding he does nothing to stop it. The natural and healthy way to react would be to rip out the spine of the priest/doctor, but if you don't act at all in that situation, you either a) are already so buck-broken that you will never be a threat to existing power-structures or b) you will be so buck-broken by the ritual that you will never be a threat to existing power-structures.
+--- 21923520
+>>21923507
+Do americans do it right after the baby being born? That's really weird. Even jews wait like, seven or eight days before they do it. I don't know how muslims do it, though.
+--- 21923529
+>>21923451
+Be more specific. The range of temperaments and characters here is rather wild.
+--- 21923532
+>>21922007
+>source for all of that: trust me bro
+--- 21923548
+>>21922119
+Each Saturday before Easter, there is an event in Jerusalem called the descent of the Holy Spirit where a flame hoes alight on its own and its temperature is 40C do you can touch it and not get burned. It happens every year. That's not just a recollection of a miracle from 2000 years ago. it's a miracle that happened the day before yesterday and will happen next year, too. There are so many of Gods great miracles happening every day.
+--- 21923567
+>>21923548
+Bro, are you serious, I am asking you as someone who was brought up as Russian Orthodox. You do realize that even the majority of the ROC laiety largely considers it purely symbolic, while the Armenian Orthodox piety that is directly involved in the ritual blatantly states that it is lit from an altar fire by the Armenian and Greek patriarchs. You absolutely cannot " touch it and not get burned"
+
+where do you jokers even come from
+--- 21923612
+>>21923478
+>>21923507
+An interesting thing I have noted is that circumcision debates are one of the only places that reddit-type normies are allowed to draw the "u r gay" card. Someone points out that circumcision is insane, someone else counters with "why r u thinking about muh dick r u gay u lil faggot?", and that is widely accepted even by normies as the end of the debate - whoever points out that circumcision is cringe is thus "defeated" by middle-school debate tactics.
+
+The most interesting about the "lmao u faggot" card is that it is used equally by both milquetoast, limpwristed reddit normies, as well as angry /pol/nazis. It should be surprising that they are in agreement here, but it really isn't, because just as you said, it's all just cope from them having it done to themselves and not having a choice.
+
+>>21923520
+I think the norm in the US is within 48 hours. It can be more, but it is usually done before the family goes home from the hospital.
+--- 21923635
+Im terrible at sex and it doesnt seem to get better
+--- 21923647
+>>21923635
+How terrible? Can't get hard? Cum too soon? No sense of rhythm? 
+
+Anyway, my protip for you would be to get a vibrator. Sleek, discrete and stylish (women care about faggy things) and then use that, and if she's comfortable, get a hitachi wand and start producing her orgasms with anonymous and impersonal industrial efficiency.
+--- 21923652
+>>21923478
+>>21923507
+I feel your pain bro. Let's just say I've less than savoury thoughts about the person who did it to me. It's even better that I get reminded of what happened to me at the most vulnerable stage of my life every time I go to take a piss.
+--- 21923671
+You ever wish you were a different person?
+--- 21923740
+>>21923306
+The photo chosen by OP is of the same Rabbi.
+--- 21923759
+>>21923647
+I can make her cum with hands/tongue
+--- 21923763
+>>21923532
+>I cannot search anything for myself, while simoultaneously denying anything presented to me, because that would trigger my cognitive dissonance.
+The ROC and ROCOR was and is such a disease and embarrassement that even Fr. Seraphim Rose had to steer clear of it. Merely a vessel for state politics, it does more harm to Orthodox Christianity that any other demon could, as it perverts and ruins it from the inside and presents it as such to other gullible people. You will all have to answer for the way you dragged it through the dirt to further your own lowly agenda.
+--- 21923777
+>>21923763
+ROCOR is why Orthodoxy has any international presence at all and doesn’t diverge from the rest of the orthodox churches on any serious theological matter besides ecumenism. The EP moves towards union with Catholics while the ROC sends out missionaries and converts people to Orthodoxy.
+--- 21923801
+>>21923759
+That's not terrible at sex, that's regular at sex. If it is important to you to make her orgasm from PIV then try out the coital alignment technique and shift focus from in and out to grinding back and forth.
+Or just use a vibrator while you're fucking. I've no clue why so many people have hangups about it.
+--- 21923824
+>>21922119
+Imagine being born in a closely-knit ethnocentric society which you had to defend from its very conception from ottoman roaches, mongoloid untermensch, austrobozgor papists, russokike commies, relying solely on your faith for strength and courage, producing thousands of heroes, martyrs even that died defending family and land, being in a permanent connection and rememberance with them each time you light a candle for them in service, only to have some muttoid fedora tipper tell you that the spiritual essence of your being is akshually about estranging your from your kin on a tibetan yak raising forum.
+--- 21923855
+>>21922119
+> imagine God performs miracles and people take notice
+--- 21923860
+>>21922580
+Why should I? If it’s some appeal to the natural state of human nature, then the existence of a miracle at all turns that completely on its head.
+--- 21923878
+>>21923777
+>ROCOR good because total numbers go up
+Yes, when our side will catch enough Pokemon we'll finally be able to battle and defeat the Catholics.
+
+>doesn’t diverge from the rest of the orthodox churches on any serious theological matter
+Except, you know, communism. And why would it risk seeming obviously off? Why would it still openly fight against Christianity when it's so much more efficient to subvert it and parasitize the Truth and inject in it its own agenda? Especially to a deluded West they've demoralized for over 80 years now, hungry to consume the next based thing? The ROCOR can only have appeal to naive Westerners as a sort of make believe "return to", even though there's nothing it can return to other than communism in the face of capitalism. It has no martyrs, no anti-communist fighters, no struggle for freedom.
+--- 21923889
+>>21923878
+I don’t argue with dumb people. Evangelism is a part of the Christian faith, ecumenism with heterodox schismatics is not, and the ROC doesn’t endorse communism.
+--- 21923905
+I’m going to quit my job this week. I‘m not sure what I’m going to do for the next year or two.
+--- 21923928
+I made a couple of wrong turns back in 2019 and 2020. There was a window there to recover, but I didn’t capitalize on it.
+--- 21923930
+test
+--- 21924003
+>>21923824
+nigga your "society" was born in 1911
+--- 21924038
+I'm nearly five years sober after spending most of my life as a severe, seemingly hopeless alcoholic. About two years ago I met my now wife, who was also just getting clean and sober amid intermittent relapses and frighteningly chaotic episodes of mental illness. I went in fully aware that I was probably walking into a meat grinder, but I had already wasted much of my life cowering and she made me feel like I really existed sometimes. We left our previous lives a bombsite and moved away to focus on staying in recovery and building a new one together. Initially we were extremely happy and she stabilised enough that we began thinking about things like careers and home ownership, things that had been unthinkable for either of us until recently. My nagging dread of losing her again to some random outburst of self-destructive behaviour began to fade. I slowly began to believe that my gamble had paid off, and that the occasional crisis was manageable so long as we stuck together and kept our eyes forward.
+--- 21924064
+>>21923889
+>the ROC doesn’t endorse communism
+Lol. Lmao, even. The ROC endorses whatever the siloviks in charge tell them to, be it going after Abel to die in a ditch, mandatory Covid vaccination or church murals of Lenin, Stalin, Putin and Shoigu and hammer and sickle stained glass. But don't worry, I'm sure at least ROCOR just stopped what it had been doing as an appendix of the state after '90.
+--- 21924106
+>>21924003
+You are both brown and a homosexual, while also having no idea what you're talking about.
+--- 21924127
+>>21924064
+The churches support the state where they’re autocephalous. This has always been the case. It supported Russians before Soviet times, during Soviet times, and after Soviet times. You’d have a church abandon its congregation.
+--- 21924134
+What causes people to feel like they still have time to change their life course at 28 or 29 but not at 30 or 31? When I turned 30 I suddenly felt like everything was hopeless.
+--- 21924145
+I got a new mechanical keyboard for $50. It's called a Havit keyboard. It is making clicky clacky noises while I type this. It's as loud as a typewriter and I hope all my neighbors can hear it and it upsets them. La la la la la I am typing on this keyboard. It's pretty nice. But it will take some getting used to. I only said the part about it taking some getting used to because I wanted an excuse to type something more. Same with this last sentence, and this sentence, and any more sentences I write. Sneed.
+--- 21924210
+https://youtube.com/watch?v=ghP7kImI9WM [Embed]
+--- 21924242
+>>21924145
+made me laugh, thanks
+--- 21924246
+It seems every hobby or interest (art, music) i develop is past its peak already.
+--- 21924251
+>>21923507
+Is there any step by step guide on how they perform the dick snibbing nowadays? I want to write a story about it.
+--- 21924253
+Even number and my car leaves the mechanic this week. Dubs and it leaves today
+--- 21924264
+>>21924064
+>church murals of Lenin, Stalin, Putin and Shoigu and hammer and sickle stained glass
+None of these were ever endorsed by ROC. 
+>post video with some Stalin statue where there isn't a single priest, mural or icon in sight
+Thanks for confirming that you're a dishonest opinion maker
+--- 21924299
+>...ohh, PAGANISM.
+i get it, hahahaa
+--- 21924329
+>>21924064
+Without doing some autistic rant, all I'm going to say is that because many Russians believe that Russia was at the height of its power as the USSR there is a respect there for Stalin that isn't motivated by a love of Communism. Russia is kind of unique in that in there are Communist apologists and/or Communism nostalgia because of that. Sure there are still communists inside of Russia, but its one of the weird politico-cultural quirks of Russia
+--- 21924331
+>>21924246
+What do you mean?
+--- 21924335
+>>21924329
+Russians that die for their motherland are political martyrs. Do you think every Soviet soldier was a true believer of Communism? There’s no reason the Russian state and the Russian Orthodox Church can’t celebrate the citizens of the Soviet era that gave their lives for their communities. When the ROC starts flying hammer and sickle flags or bending theology to accommodate communism, then there’s an issue. Otherwise, this is just a subversive narrative to paint the ROC guilty by association, and association of people who are long dead by the way.
+--- 21924341
+>>21924329
+When liberalism and progressivism inevitably fade out we in America and Europe will make apology for our patriots as well.
+--- 21924345
+As it turned out, it appears that we might be simply too irretrievably fucked as human beings to make it. Things that could have been normal adult life problems; rent disputes, family illness and feuding, minor legal issues; they've all joined up into one constantly escalating disaster. Even sober, we both behave like we're constantly blackout drunk. The more frightened she gets, the more she she reacts to everything with uncontrollable rage and spite. It's almost the same kind of heartbreak as being around someone with dementia. To have the person you've loved most in your entire existence lay into you with their fists, literally screaming at you to commit suicide is horrible. To have them stop for a moment and quietly tell you they're still in there and they need you to make them stop, before continuing, is unbearable.
+For my part I've handled everything as wrongly as could be. My paralysing need to keep her safe has left us with nobody but each other, and my self-image as the guy who can cope with anything has left her feeling tricked into depending on an empty jacket. Lately I'm so wrung-out that sometimes I just start screaming mindless hatred right back at her, as if every cell in her body isn't utterly precious to me. We always end up in bed, clinging to one another like frightened children and promising each other forehead-to-forehead that we'll never give up. The other day, before the current crisis, that's not even worth going into but might be the last, we tried to go for a walk in the woods where we had our first real conversation. In the time it took to get our shoes on and get in the car we disappeared again and the people who got to the woods were those vicious, sullen failures who keep replacing us. She said something about me being a waste of time; I flatly told her she was a fucking bitch and kept driving. Every cell, remember. Truly. She walked away from me in the woods and we spent an hour or so separately trudging around, each angry and terrified the other wouldn't come back. Afterwards we both said it was exactly like the dreams when you're a kid, where your family walk away from you and you can never catch up and you can't see where they are.
+--- 21924347
+>>21921102 (OP)
+Speaking of religion should I continue reading Kierkegaard or touch on Alvin Plantinga
+--- 21924349
+>>21922296
+I’m a jazz fan but never heard of him
+--- 21924354
+>>21922428
+Lol
+--- 21924357
+>>21922776
+Not exactly a e-Christian, I enjoy going to church for the sermons and it helps me to understand the Bible better
+--- 21924362
+>decide to go sober
+>suddenly realize how utterly fucking gay and cringe my failed existence is, and that this is the reason I did drugs in the first place
+>do drugs again
+It's like a merry-go-round except it isn't merry.
+--- 21924364
+>>21923306
+Because reasons, Ivan
+--- 21924389
+>>21924362
+Thanks for re-phrasing my sappy bullshit for the vertebrates. I haven't even considered drinking again this time which is very weird. It's like, what's the fucking point? There's no respite in it anymore. I never thought staying sober would be how I knew I'd really given up.
+--- 21924404
+>>21921102 (OP)
+Ej od kad sam se rodio
+--- 21924412
+In the year 2050, following years of global cyber warfare and environmental crises, the UN unanimously agreed the fate of Earth and every creature contained must not be left to the fallible and capricious judgement of humankind. Therefore, all political control across every continent was relinquished to a benevolent AI dictator called Abel.
+
+Abel was programmed by leading machine learning experts worldwide to enforce world peace and look out for the interests of humanity as a whole, keeping other AI systems in check and overriding them if necessary.
+
+By 2085 AI vastly surmounted humankind in every conceivable ability, and programs itself without human intervention. 
+
+AI treats us lovingly but exercises total authority over us. It creates our art and entertainment, and we adore what it creates. For the contemporary person life is akin to an endless episode of euphoria, in no small part because our biochemistry is minutely controlled by technology, and we are continually pumped full of signalling molecules that keep us content and peaceful. Our amygdalas have been all but disabled. Malice and ill-will is virtually non-existent in the new human being.
+
+Thus adulthood has become childhood extended. We play and entertain ourselves all day long and let more powerful beings provide for us. Utopia was not to be found in Arcadia so much as the arcade.
+--- 21924428
+>>21924362
+I bet you’re young. How can your existence be failed?
+--- 21924440
+>>21924362
+I've seen this posted so many times that all I'm going to say is this. You will never grow and get out of the pits of your despair until you decided to face that pain in its face and work through it. Your emotional hero's journey is wading through those negative emotions to the better pastures on the other side. Until then, you will continue to descend until you hit rock bottom and the thing about rock bottom is that you think your there until it crumbles away and you find a worse rock bottom.
+--- 21924470
+It really baffles me how out of touch atheists are. How they can be so astute in their assertions but be practically brain dead. To be purposefully ignorant in the pursuit of relationships with the creator. Responding to long articulated stories with "coincidence" time and time again. How they can ignore the history of the world and justify doing so with nothing. To think that they, in their 20s have discovered more knowledge than thousands of men who dedicated their lives to understanding to simply dismiss what is obvious; that there is a God. To focus on things we can't know for sure and circle jerk around subjects like heaven not existing but ignoring all evidence in the mortal world. They really baffle me.
+--- 21924478
+>>21924470
+>all evidence in the mortal world
+Such as?
+--- 21924482
+>>21921102 (OP)
+>Gf doesn't let me kiss her after I go down on her.
+
+Wtf does she mean by this? I've never had this happen before but it always feels bad. Yet she loves kissing after I cum in her mouth
+--- 21924488
+>>21924478
+How about every successful culture coming from a desire to know and understand God or gods, thus dedicating their lives to fulfill their wishes which created the world you live in
+--- 21924491
+>>21924482
+Means you're the bitch of the relationship
+--- 21924501
+>>21924488
+I asked for evidence, not your cuckoo cultbabble.
+--- 21924504
+>>21924470
+Which God have you chosen from the massive collection of mutually exclusive belief systems? And why do you think your God exists while all other religions from all other cultures and time periods are misguided? Perhaps you’re also misguided?
+--- 21924509
+>>21921102 (OP)
+sex
+--- 21924512
+I have an ant nest in my kitchen and I find it pretty interesting how they demolish every crumb on my desk but absolutely refuse to touch anything lying on the stove.
+--- 21924518
+>>21924470
+If the history of the world is conducted by divine providence then it's no surprise that people are discarding religion the minute it's no longer a punishable act and/or socially frowned upon.
+--- 21924525
+>>21924440
+I don't think there are better pastures anymore. Maybe if you implode quickly due to life events then pull it back, or get addicted after growing up, I don't know. It seems as if people who go down and stay down through their formative years are past retrieval. Even if you stay sober you're building without a foundation. No good times in front, no escape hatch anymore, just waiting for it to be over. The only exceptions I've seen are those who can get happy-clappy enough about 12-stepping that they're essentially on a permanent religious high that drowns out who they actually are.
+--- 21924558
+>>21924525
+>I don't think there are better pastures anymore.
+That's the problem, you think their aren't, but you don't know. The Greeks thought India was inhabited by human sized ants that eat gold. Hell, they thought past the Indus river was the edge of the world and they were afraid they were going to fall off, until they saw the other side if it. Until then you are like those Ancient Greeks, hearing the tales of other people or theorizing what is out there. You'll never truly know until you try yourself.
+--- 21924589
+>>21924501
+Name any nation that prevailed without working towards gaining favor from the divine, also rhanks for proving the point of my post
+--- 21924598
+>>21924504
+Reading the Bible, you can see the influence of the so-called pagan faiths being key components of those prophecies. Because of the dominance God took over in Egypt asserting himself over King Nebuchadnezzar, we learn that there is one above all humanity.
+--- 21924607
+>>21924558
+Unfortunately I'm basing this on being years into recovery myself and knowing lots of other people in the same boat, rather than having a wallow so I can carry on in addiction. I am in a spectacularly whiney little pussy mood today though so pinch of salt
+--- 21924612
+Request source for this quote. Thought it might be Henry James, but don’t believe so now
+Paraphrasing a bit perhaps:
+
+“Life is a slow advance into enemy territory”
+--- 21924726
+>>21921102 (OP)
+---- Solaria ----
+220
+Enclave
+
+A life like Ariel and Caliban in the same sphere 
+Or intellect and imagination
+
+So completely intertwined that 
+You'd have to try, and very hard at that 
+
+To go disastrously wrong
+As war's cruel freaks can't help but do. 
+
+Yet here I am, drifting through it,
+Dreaming behind the wheel of charm 
+
+I've paid nothing for, this unbelievable empire of the mind
+Where daylight broad as the drift of galaxies
+
+Comes to a head all research seeks another of
+Then glides into dreams like 
+
+A man spending, always, his own scenic sense
+Like a universe running slowly down.
+
+https://youtu.be/v7hFdGnwH1E?t=421 [Embed]
+--- 21924752
+Went from trader to office slave, not sure if I like it but that’s not what’s on my mind.
+Does anyone have a website where I can read something interesting? A boring UI, subject can be anything but would prefer something about society/philosophy.
+Think unqualified reservations 
+Cause I’m boooored at word right now
+--- 21924778
+>>21924518
+Atheism now is promoted by people overtaking our civilization in order to make us weaker. Their flee to it just accommodates their lack of self accountability
+--- 21924784
+I can't help but feel like it was a waste of time and effort whenever someone who claims to be literate has the absolute safest and basic bitch opinions about everything under the sun. Was it truly worth reading all the books you read if you never had a single original or at least mildly offbeat thought cross your mind doing so? Did it amount to anything, really?
+--- 21924788
+>>21924784
+You're just as bad for assuming that literature is some sort of edgelord crutch.
+--- 21924790
+>>21921102 (OP)
+capitalism is the nigger of mankind.
+--- 21924810
+>>21924788
+I never said anything about wanting people to be edgelords. But come on, how do you expose yourself to all these different views from all these cultures throughout centuries, if not entire millennia about all these topics and come out the other end as some sort of spiritual reincarnation of bertrand fucking russell like every other upper-middle class wanker?
+--- 21924822
+>>21924790
+No, capitalism is the cancer of mankind and culture.
+--- 21924834
+>>21924778
+There is not civility in a world of competing absolutist faiths. There’s only conformity, obedience and broken minds that will march to slaughter like so many zombies. That is the zombie metaphor after all. 
+Civilization will start once all divinely revealed faiths are strained out of our children’s brains
+--- 21924906
+>>21923928
+my entire life has been a wrong turn
+--- 21924911
+>>21924834
+What's your take here? It's easy to sound like you are speaking with intellect when you are just making broad statements. Speaking of Christianity as we are here, what do you think the reformations were? Obedience and conformity? Please attempt to make a point next time
+--- 21924928
+Trade job, office slave..
+One ruins your body and the other damages your soul
+I need to try the third option, having my own business. Maybe next year I’ll give that a go
+--- 21924940
+>>21924790
+>>21924822
+no, it's not. GREED is.
+--- 21924943
+>>21924928
+Or you can find a job that pays as high as you can get, work it for 5 to 10 years, w/e you can bare. Save as much as humanly possible and reduce your living standards to as low as possible. Over time buy some land somewhere cheap, buy and RV/build a house or cabin/contract a company to build one for you. And bam, you basically made it, quite your job, move out to your land, get a part-time job to cover your living expenses and stash the excess away to invest or do something you love to do.
+--- 21924945
+>>21924940
+That’s where greed comes from. Greed and violence invents the legalization money.
+--- 21924968
+>>21924943
+Funny you say that cause that’s my other plan but it hinges on a few things.
+https://r4aruba.com/properties/papilon-51/
+Been eyeing this place. Plenty of land to do some side jobs for money (beekeeping, other agricultural stuff, welding place)
+Don’t have the money to buy it now and am hoping my dad will help me out with it.
+If I do get it I would love to work less and do welding/selling stuff on the side.
+--- 21925023
+>on my way to the gym
+>randomly hit with anxiety out of nowhere
+>get really paranoid and feel like I shouldn't be there
+>do 1 set of bench and leave
+What the fuck
+--- 21925048
+>>21923478
+>>21923507
+>american posting hours about to hit peak
+I am looking forward to it with anticipation. 
+>One of my schizo-theories is that the primary target of demoralization during circumcision is actually the father
+Actually halfway interesting and original take.
+--- 21925059
+>>21925023
+You're an alright dude, no need to be anxious.
+--- 21925061
+Out of my dozens of insecurities and hang ups, having a small dick is among the worst. There's nothing you can do about it. I've never had a girlfriend but I did have a dream where I had one and she slept with my coworker and became pregnant with his kid because I couldn't satisfy her. I've had so many horrible experiences with women that I avoid them as much as possible outside of work and family stuff. I hate myself so much
+--- 21925080
+Bald, manlet or small dick.
+You have to pick 2
+I’d go bald manlet desu
+--- 21925081
+heads i win tails you lose
+--- 21925106
+Do you think barely graduating from state university means you’ll never make it in professional life? I graduated late with a very, very low GPA and it’s been difficult for me to put together a good career ever since.
+--- 21925122
+>>21925106
+It’s over
+--- 21925123
+>>21924612
+>one should be wiser as getting older
+what about those people who dont get wiser with age? are they the ones getting so afraid of death?
+--- 21925142
+>>21925106
+Is there anything else you studied to put on your resume?
+--- 21925147
+>>21925123
+Everyone is afraid of death
+Terror management theory
+--- 21925155
+>>21925106
+Nope. Success is about knowing the right people much more than it is about individual merit or achievement, and what influence individual merit and achievement has, whatever you attain after graduation counts a thousandfold more than what you did in school.
+The extrinsic value of doing excellently in school is mostly to propel your career to work directly at some fag-corporation afterwards, who care about that when hiring graduates. Any position requiring more seniority than that, school marks mean fuck-all, previous professional experience means everything. 
+I know plenty of recruiters. For any applicant with +2 years of work experience, they don't even look at the grades, they look at the previous experience.
+--- 21925156
+>>21925106
+>putting your GPA on your resume
+I've literally never did this... If they ask for it I would just play it off as "I don't think you need to know that because your not an academic institution." I know a bunch of people who have just outright lied on the resume or to the interviewer to get a job, which I thought was illegal? But its not. I even know a guy how failed out of community college, applied to a state university, just never put that he went to community college and just go in. I thought that they had a database where they track this shit but they apparently just hope you tell the truth. Either way he got in and was never caught.
+--- 21925202
+1. i liked trump in the beginning seeing him as a fly in the ointment, i knew he was a con man, but i also knew him winning would be mega annoying to the elite, who i despise, and he won. After that he was a massive failure, and he continues to lose (no it wasnt stolen, he lost, get over it). He will in all likelihood lose again to biden
+
+2. desantis is basically a neocon wearing a trump mask, i want nothing to do with him
+
+3. i think biden winning again will cast off the far right into limbo as the neocons retake the smoking crater that is the GOP post trump
+--- 21925213
+>>21925142
+No. This was 5 years ago. I started a master’s degree but I decided I didn’t want to continue.
+--- 21925220
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrLnOfYFVvQ [Embed]
+--- 21925234
+>>21925202
+It doesn’t really matter who wins, but the GOP is a politically impotent party. They’re dead. Anyone who knows what signs to look for can see it and see also that they’re not even really trying to win. When a party starts talking openly about running private equity and hedge fund executives because they can put up their own campaign funds, it’s over. At that point, the party isn’t running candidates. The candidates are running themselves. So there’s no point in having a party. A positive outcome would be a reform or destruction and replacement of the GOP but I doubt it will happen.
+--- 21925237
+>>21925202
+Quit writing in all lowercase. You ought to respect yourself and what you're writing about more than that.
+--- 21925248
+>>21925237
+welll excuseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee me!
+--- 21925254
+>>21925147
+I really need to think on my incoming death everyday. I sometimes ask myself on what were my thoughts if I be dying in a 5 minutes.
+--- 21925265
+>>21921768
+You too?
+--- 21925276
+I've had a lump on my jugular area for 5 or 6 days now. Should I be worried?
+--- 21925284
+>>21925276
+is it lymph bump? that could be potentially bad
+--- 21925297
+>>21925202
+Ron DeSantis isn’t exactly a NeoCon. This isn’t a guy who was the head of a major corporation or an Ivy League-educated private attorney. He was Ivy League educated, but he was also a Marine Corps JAG. That’s an unusual background for a NeoCon. iirc neither Trump nor DeSantis supported Roman McDaniel for RNC chair, which shows neither of them really are the same as the Neocons and if he was a neocon he wouldn’t have said the things he said about Ukraine. If he had gone to a state school rather than Yale, he’d be the conservative version of Obama.
+--- 21925319
+You’ve got to find what you want to do while you’re still young.
+--- 21925335
+>>21925123
+Not so much about wisdom, just to know you are advancing into a situation that you’re going to get cut down in eventually. So more about caution. That sort of wisdom.
+And people don’t often enough live their lives with any caution. Smoking or some other hard drug, other ways of recklessness. 
+
+>>21925254
+I prefer to think of the life I want to live. Less panicking. Though I’ll try your idea for a bit. Might get my butt in gear. 
+
+Still looking for the quote origin! >>21924612
+--- 21925337
+>>21925297
+oh come on, you and me know if somehow desantis won he would staff up with neocon ghouls and toe the neocon line 
+
+dude is diet trump trying to get elected in an environment that has trump like 50 points ahead of the rest of the pack.
+
+but once he is in office i predict he would just revert to being a boring neocuck
+--- 21925364
+I always find more differences than similarities with other people, and I keep to myself because I have no interest in conflict
+--- 21925409
+>>21925337
+He would, but not necessarily because that’s what he wants. It’s rather that at that level, you have to tap the people around you and the people around you are all neocon ghouls. You know, if you have to tap someone for attorney general, the only people you’re going to really know that qualify for the position are going to be Ivy League graduate careerists that are lifelong neolibs or neocons. That’s the same problem Trump faced. He tried to do it differently by tapping his wealthy businessmen friends rather than lawyers and politicians, but they turned out the same. I don’t know how you overcome that if you have to tap people for your cabinet and work with the executive branch as it exists. I think he’d do more of what he’s doing in Florida, but in the end that would have no real effect just like it’s having no real effect in Florida, which might just be conservative because it’s a baby boomer snowbird state in the first place.
+--- 21925453
+>>21925364
+>I have no interest in conflict
+I was thinking about this today. It's partly because the people I'm closest with have a lot of mental issues but sometimes it seems like everyone around me just wants constant stress and misery from conflict. Every little issue is a chance to throw a big self-righteous tantrum and lash out, then when they get some back it's just proof of how persecuted they are so of course they have to retaliate. I feel like I've had the same conversation a thousand times, carefully walking someone through the steps to either:
+get what they want and move on with their lives in peace
+or:
+make their own lives a misery but at least they get to fuck with whoever slighted them while they're at it.
+And every time they nod along because it's logic a four-year-old could grasp, right up until I ask what they're going to do and they pull that FUCKING 'nuh-uh I do wha I wan!' face and it all gets instantly deleted from their mind. And these are perfectly well-educated, articulate people. Sometimes I wonder if I'm some kind of aberrant wimp because I just don't care if someone's a little rude to me, or a little selfish or whatever. I cannot get my head around having to fight every single battle then whining that your life is always full of bullshit.
+--- 21925454
+>go 6 different shaman about recurring migraine headhurt
+>they make pay million rocks to go inside giant beeping coffin
+>make painting of inside head 
+>not fix headhurt
+>go home
+>rub spot between eye and nose
+>headhurt go away
+--- 21925457
+>>21925454
+Good grug head no hurt now
+--- 21925465
+>>21921102 (OP)
+Does anyone get the feeling that telling people your plans or what you're gonna do to make your life better is a somewhat bad idea?
+--- 21925485
+>>21925465
+yeah never say anything, things take time and multiple attempts so there's no point talking it up then feeling like a failure over and over til you get there
+--- 21925505
+>>21925465
+Yes.
+--- 21925507
+>>21925465
+I say yes, but actually, I’ve now had 3 times where I told someone I wanted to do something for a living and a year later I was doing it.
+--- 21925624
+>>21925465
+I used to think so but I've found out that if you do tell in a non delusional or boasting way then people often will try and help you.
+--- 21925636
+>>21925465
+Yes, but the people I've told have either used it against me or went out of their way to sabotage me.
+--- 21925643
+>>21925465
+Not in my case. I’m a nondriver so I’m at the mercy of people who do.
+--- 21925649
+>>21924945
+You will not own the means of production
+--- 21925657
+>>21923478
+That’s why i don’t speak to my mother unless I need something and rarely if ever date.
+--- 21925688
+the center of the eye is black
+the pole is substanceless at top
+the center of the eye is black 
+it starts and quickly's forced to stop
+--- 21925827
+>>21923567
+Ask Jerusalems patriarch on the matter. Dudnt a ukrainian guy want to steal the cross from UOC priest only to suffer a concussion and die out of nowhere last week?
+--- 21925879
+>>21923158
+I don't know what to tell you, Anon. Most of humanity in previous times lived very difficult lives. This is still the case for nearly everyone outside of the comparatively small population of Western Civilization. Remember that the USA, Canada, Australia, and Europe combined have fewer people than China alone. You're in the global 1% just by being here. The systemic problems which threaten our way of life must be reckoned with, but that's not to say or quality of life is poor. They say good times create weak men, and I'm reminded of that every time I see this kind of snide malcontent.
+--- 21925891
+>>21923567
+You're talking to a LARPer. Just ignore it and it'll go away.
+--- 21925894
+Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
+--- 21925905
+>>21925465
+That's actually something Goethe said. Pic related talks about that. Good book. The author read the complete works of Goethe while in prison.
+--- 21925926
+>>21921102 (OP)
+Phoebe frantically groped for her phone which was somewhere inside a large purse. This purse was the highest rated for its price on Amazon. "Come on!" She strained through her clenched teeth. The notification sound was impossible to mistake...if only she could find it. 
+
+At last her fingers wrapped around the bulky object. Phoebe brushed the lint and dust from the screen and unlocked the phone with an adept motion. "Shit! That FUCKER!" Her heart started to pound in her chest. Her palms began to sweat and the world around her faded into obscurity. The notification sound which she heard 5 minutes earlier was a notification from Facebook which was generated after her brother commented on a picture she uploaded the day before. The picture was of her standing in her bathroom with her lips puckered and her head tilted back. She was wearing the latest trend in fashion, which was a strap-on dildo which her and her girlfriends had painted with nail polish. Below the picture, the caption read: "Finally got my cock today....fr".
+The comment which her brother had just posted sent her reeling. It said: "
+--- 21926075
+I haven't got the money, so I've got to think!
+--- 21926090
+>>21925649
+You will never breathe freely, slaveboy
+--- 21926102
+A thin layer of my brain is peeling.
+--- 21926103
+Tall vs. Wide education & social neural networking model
+Signal : Noise -- Vast majority of useful structural data for any given subject is historical, not new. Signal : noise ratio is growing exponentially weaker. Networking with
+other humans is not producing intellectual or data value, is in fact demonstrably harmful. Social media networks becoming increasingly abandoned as a result and especially
+by those who value data impact.
+Physical social networking (education, social groups) rapidly becoming outmoded in the same way. AI can discover and communicate relevant data at machinespeed within next generation, eliminating value of humanspace social networks for collective information processing. New value placed on localized (individual) processing and storage ability. Individuals with extreme competence and access to information/data processing (AI and computer science). Spurr of radical individualism (digital nomads, return to cottage industries with localized & automated production tools, 3d printers etc).
+
+I really need a journaling program or app.
+--- 21926156
+im feeling a strong compulsion to drop $75 on a bunch of books i want even though I have a fairly substantial stack of books that I haven't read yet 
+
+God help me
+--- 21926241
+>>21925465
+100%
+
+They will always, always try to sabotage you or have an out for you like it's a zero-sum game. There is no mutually beneficial option. Everyone sees your success as an "I win you lose" situation, thus they will always try to ruin you or fuck it up. Not only that, it will also hurt your productivity, because you are less likely to follow through and complete goals if you go blabbing about them to other people
+--- 21926251
+As a pre-9/11 zoomer, I see those post-9/11s and their bullshit and think to myself "God, you guys are fucking retarded."
+--- 21926252
+>>21926241
+And also the reason for that, I can't tell you. They must have been bullied or something as kids, so they have this weird sour grapes or retribution complex when they're adults and take vengeance out on everyone around them
+--- 21926267
+One solution to the Fermi paradox is that alien civilizations deliberately hide themselves to keep safe from harmful civilizations, but if that's true then we're very retarded for sending signals into space.
+--- 21926273
+>>21926267
+I think alien civilizations likely noticed the signals and orchestrated some sort of plan
+
+There would probably be mass suicides and hysteria if aliens ever openly visited us
+--- 21926327
+I've been entertaining the idea of "benign stasis" lately and think we should embrace it. What I mean by benign stasis is a counter to the social and technological progressivism which seems to lead us into an ever deeper muddle. Stagnation can be fruitful if we work to perfect ourselves at that state before moving forward. Humanity as a rule has a tendency to generate and establish new systems faster than it understands them. This is especially true of technology, but is also true of all kinds of systems. When a progressive looks back at the age of monarchy they see a time of pettiness and domination. Wars were fought over which noble got to claim a some title, and everyone's political lives revolved around what this select group of nobility did, wanted, or felt they were owed. Yet there was a certain coherence to this system, a cadence and stability. It happened within ritualized boundaries, according to formally established rules. WW2 could never have happened within this network of entitlements, in no small part because the web of nobility was often international and different noble houses often intermarried. Different states would often war with each other because they were ruled by two heirs to the same title. Everyone sought to preserve what they conquered rather than destroy or liquidate and reconstitute it. Politics was quite like a chess game back then, and in that respect, it was a limited, confined thing that would not get too far out of control.
+
+Technology is an even more important case. Technological progress is an extremely suspicious concept that cannot be criticized enough. What is technology progressing towards? By what standards is it better? Sometimes, when defined in terms of sheer technical specifications, answer is clear. Steel, for example, has certain engineering properties which make it better than iron as a construction material . A new computer chip may perform faster operations than an older model. The problem is when this narrow definition of progress is overgeneralized and we think that just because technology is improved within those technical dimensions, it will translate to broad improvement of our lives. This is a fatal error humanity has made over and over again. The M1917 Browning machine gun was an unambiguous improvement over older firearms, but in retrospect, it just killed a lot more boys than was strictly necessary during ww1.
+
+Now we're really wading into it with AI. I suspect plenty havoc to ensue.
+--- 21926333
+>tfw a girl I was extremely close with back in the day just announced she is pregnant 
+
+what a weird feel, man. the things i know about that girl would probably shake any relationship lol
+--- 21926335
+>Embarrassing Confessions go here
+I'm in my 30's and I still doing know how to file my taxes... How the fuck did any of you guys figure out how to file taxes? My parents always blow me off when I ask them to teach me them.
+--- 21926342
+>>21926335
+im 29 and i just get my dad to do them, and he just buys turbotax to do his own anyway. thats all i know
+--- 21926354
+>>21926335
+I wish I could kidnap ducks. They're fast little fuckers.
+--- 21926384
+>>21926335
+Just get Sprintax for like $30 or whatever it is. If you have the appropriate tax forms, it will just tell you exactly what boxes to enter everything from. If you want even easier than that, go to an HR Block preferably in a white upscale neighborhood and they will do the same thing for you as the Sprintax but with even less effort. 
+
+Once you do it one time with Sprintax, you can see easily how it works. The tax return itself is just a big report card that funnels all of your entries toward certain calculations and trusts you to make them correctly (and honestly, obviously). All the fancy shit only really matters if you have some kind of complex financial situation like rich people have, where they're basically constantly scamming the government by doing all sorts of deductions and transfers. All rich people do this btw. But if you're a normal guy, and you are basically just reporting income, it's incredibly simple, and your return won't be doing much more than funneling your reported income down through the pachinko machine to the final calculations of what you owe. 
+
+Most rich people with complicated returns just use a tax professional. 
+
+If you don't know what forms you need or you have misplaced your forms, google it and ask your employer. Again if you're a young guy without all kinds of property or deduction stuff to report, you probably just need your 1042 or whatever, and one or two other ones max
+--- 21926440
+>>21926333
+i guess i should probably speak plainly: somewhere out there, there is a man having a child with a woman, probably going to marry her even, without knowing that when she was a teenager, she did sex acts on camera all the time as early as Jr. high school, graduated to meeting up with adult men who in some cases drove form a different city to pick her up at lunch so she could blow them in their car and be back in time for class, to top it all off, she told me that she and one of her friends liked to jerk off her dog. in high school she practically begged me to let her blow me on camera so some grown man could watch us, and i was pretty disturbed b the whole idea and left 
+
+like, damn, that woman is now going to be someones mother, maybe someones wife, and they will never know, while I know all the skeletons in her closet that probably almost no one else in the worlds knows the full extent of. its just surreal to think about
+--- 21926447
+>>21926333
+Yeah it's weird. I'm 26 and found out my ex girlfriend is married and has a 1 year old child lol
+We broke up probably 3 years ago though
+--- 21926498
+>>21926440
+How do you vet for this stuff? Girls are very good at putting up a facade
+--- 21926509
+I’ve never liked my personality. Somewhere in my twenties I changed into someone even tempered and boring.
+--- 21926515
+>>21921102 (OP)
+Had a dream where my mom was my celibate and prudish wife at a dinner party with two other married couples who kept trying to get me to pardner swap or have group sex but I didn't because it would hurt my motherwife's feelings.
+Instead focusing on the food which was almost all meat dishs or dips. Like there was a big casserole dish of thick spinach dip. The meat was really good, and it was in gorging myself yet remaining completely unsatisfied by the dream food that I realized something was wrong and woke up.
+It was only after a minute or so of reflection on the dream that I even realized how disturbing it actually was, with my mother as my wife and all the sexual stuff.
+Until that moment my mind was almost entirely focused on the cornucopia of meats and dips. So tender and moist with otherworldly flavors.
+I still have the phantoms of the flavors. Combinations I don't think I have tasted in real life before. 
+
+But yeah ignoring the glorious meat, lot of weird relationship shit to unpack there.
+--- 21926520
+>>21926440
+>most men these days are pornsick
+>women will do literally anything for whatever random semi-fling bf they have at the time
+>all these men are into porn shit like making their gf lick their asshole and gargle their balls
+>your future wife has licked 4 different men's assholes while they called her a dirty whore and said cringe shit to her
+>your future has gargled cum 
+>your future wife will kiss your kid on the forehead when she picks him up after soccer, with lips that have been on a man's hairy asshole while the man said "deeper"
+Whores are the most primally disgusting thing on the planet, the difference between a whore and a normal woman is like the difference between a beautiful red shiny apple freshly plucked and a moldy diseased apple lying on the wet ground next to a dumpster. There is no in between, you're either moldy dumpster juice or you are wonderful crisp beautiful bounty from god.
+--- 21926531
+>>21926498
+You create a society that has 13 year old virgin girls arranged to marry men like what existed for thousands of years and ended only recently by the Puritans.
+--- 21926535
+>>21926531
+...wtf anon...
+>>21926498
+>How do you vet for this stuff?
+safest way I found is just not dating at all, other than that you have to spin the Jeopardy Wheel of Despair.
+--- 21926546
+>>21926535
+The amount of times a girl seems unassuming until you hear all sorts of stuff about them. You basically have to assume the worst until proven otherwise. It’s one of the reasons to remain volcel, keep God in your heart and if it’s His will to give you a wife, He will
+--- 21926594
+>>21926535
+>...wtf anon...
+Did you not know that? Also, in some places, like ancient Rome, the father would have their own daughter executed if she lost her virginity before marriage (and the man who took her virginity).
+>The age of lawful consent to a marriage was 12 for girls and 14 for boys. Most Roman women married in their late teens to early twenties. Still, noble women married younger than those of the lower classes, and an aristocratic girl was expected to be a virgin until her first marriage.
+--- 21926603
+>>21926594
+Forgot to mention, but aristocrats married off girls even younger than 12 despite the law.
+--- 21926626
+>>21926520
+>moldy dumpster juice
+--- 21926630
+>>21921159
+You really missed out on paying $2000 a month and still having cockroaches so that you can go to the Subway that gets shut down twice in one year for health code violations and pay $14.49 after tax for a shitty sandwich.
+--- 21926638
+>>21921159
+it doesn't matter where you are in the world if youre still going to carry the same attitude and approach to life. what "excitement" is moving to new york going to get you that you cant get anywhere else?
+if you plant yourself in new york, you're still going to be an aimless person with no family and no direction in life drifting mindlessly from one moment to the next
+--- 21926639
+>>21921102 (OP)
+>bought another expensive book
+I'm not going to go into poverty for it, but this is a terrible habit.
+--- 21926659
+>>21926630
+>$14.49
+Plus tip
+--- 21926664
+>>21926638
+>>21921159
+exactly. this is an ego/perspective problem. im a 30s something neet who was once on top of the world.
+still kinda vibing. maybe im vibing too hard for my own good.
+anyway, there are people in their 30's, 40s, 50s etc. that do more interesting shit in a year than youve ever done, yea?
+you can still be that 30 year old living life. or 40. or 50. assuming you arent in some 3rd world shithole that is.
+--- 21926792
+now im up to $103 
+
+it seems irresponsible but it would keep me occupied for a long time, I think, and i haven't really gotten myself something nice in ages
+--- 21926794
+>>21923507
+I'm glad I was circumcised when I was already 2 months old. (as opposed to newborn I mean)
+>>21925657
+It's awful but it's not the end of the world anon. Billions of men are circ'd and live normal lives with their partners and parents. You probably have bigger issues you're avoiding and scapegoating.
+--- 21926795
+Imagine being able to do your life over knowing what you know now.
+--- 21926803
+>>21926520
+This is depressing and disgusting. Men and women today are lost.
+--- 21926813
+>>21926794
+>we cut off the labia of millions newborn girls, it’s awful but they can still live normal lives because of it so don’t worry about it too much
+--- 21926815
+>>21926520
+When it’s put like that you really come to realise how filthy and degenerate modern society is
+--- 21926851
+can someone please make a new thread
+--- 21926896
+>>21926813
+Yes? FGM victims can live fairly normal lives too, doesn't mean it's not a disgusting practice with some heavy drawbacks. But that might be too reasonable for this site. I'm not going to tell you it's over and to kys if that's what you're looking for.
+--- 21926902
+>>21926701
+holy based
+--- 21927022
+New thread here
+>>21927020 →
+>>21927020 →
+
+>>21927020 →
+>>21927020 →
+--- 21927358
+>>21921890
+>did that fucking idiot really spend full year alone
+Literally what's wrong with that.

lit/21921117.txt

@@ -10,3 +10,34 @@ I hope he dies soon.
 --- 21922027
 >>21921347
 Fuck this board. Fuck you. How could you even say something like that? What's the rationale?
+--- 21923639
+>>21922027
+It’s 4chan and being edgy is the norm. Calm down mate. 
+
+>>21921117 (OP)
+I enjoyed this. There should be some grandpa substitute genre of youtube to just turn on. 
+I really enjoy this guy’s chats about cuneiform and tablet histories:
+https://youtube.com/watch?v=wHjznvH54Cw&pp=ygUNSXJ2aW5nIGZpbmtlbA%3D%3D [Embed]
+--- 21923645
+>>21921117 (OP)
+Wrong, it's time to work. Rest day is Sabbath.
+--- 21924689
+>>21921117 (OP)
+he is so comfy and chill 
+how does one become like him? he looks like he has the perfect life...
+--- 21925280
+>>21921117 (OP)
+OMG!!!
+It's Santa!!!
+--- 21925287
+>>21921347
+He's only 65.
+--- 21925293
+>>21924689
+Become a Christian, smoke pipes, and read and write a lot of poetry. Simple as
+--- 21925305
+>>21924689
+He's spoken about his depression a lot. Comfiness and chillness comes from going into the depths of the murky pools.
+--- 21926512
+>>21921347
+You're awful.

lit/21921346.txt

@@ -449,3 +449,106 @@ I might do this. I have a lot of free time when commuting but usually just end u
 18, browses reddit, smokes marijuana, virgin
 --- 21923454
 I miss having these books close by
+--- 21923467
+>>21923454
+It's now all military history books because I'm running out of space and had to place most books somewhere else
+--- 21923477
+>>21921376
+Who's that little green fella on top of your shelf?
+--- 21923512
+>>21923454
+Can you please tell me the name of that 7 green books set, behind the figure of that ninja turtle?
+--- 21923702
+>>21921866
+Why’s that? Anons collection is pretty neat
+--- 21923796
+>>21922822
+checked. blessed post anon.
+--- 21923880
+>>21923512
+Of course. It's Plato's complete Dialogues
+--- 21924396
+>>21921346 (OP)
+Picked these up today, gibbons decline and fall, 12 volumes, leatherbound1806 I believe.
+Not in the best condition, but not too bad either
+--- 21924832
+>>21924396
+heres two.
+--- 21924987
+>>21923076
+>based ancient home consumer 
+Yeah, I just found out about them a few months ago. People seem to rate Ancient Homes very highly. I was thinking about possibly getting some Willow Tree figurines like pic related as well.
+--- 21925188
+>>21924987
+I’d rate them highly as well, but have found some better statues/busts sometimes at better prices on things like Etsy, though for what they do they’re great 
+I think pic related would be super befitting as well, you should go for it, it seems very subdued and less can for sure be more which I’ve learned the hard way
+--- 21925196
+>>21924396
+Based 
+That’s a great find, gibbons decline and fall is slow and at times dreary imo but all around superb
+--- 21925530
+>>21924396
+Jealous
+--- 21925588
+>>21921346 (OP)
+This is the best pic I have of my shelf but it’s mainly a picture of my cat so have a go. It’s 1/2 of my 1/2 shelves
+--- 21925612
+>>21925530
+>the buttplug
+--- 21925655
+>>21921346 (OP)
+Sorry, I don't have a proper shelf to fit everything neatly. Also, I am not much of a reader, as you can probably tell.
+
+>White
+>26
+>Normal
+>Yes
+--- 21925675
+>>21925655
+I want the Cossacks and Other Stories
+Is that the annotated Lolita?
+How is it?
+--- 21925678
+>>21923385
+18 year olds don't have bookshelves like that
+--- 21925685
+>>21925612
+The handmafe kaleidoscope?
+--- 21925686
+>>21925655
+Seeing the hobit and lotr in different places hurts
+
+Put them next to each other.. please
+--- 21925771
+>>21921759
+You will always be a woman.
+--- 21925829
+>>21923477
+A zombie bottle-opener; a gift from a friend from years ago.
+--- 21925836
+Open to all suggestions. Note: books are doubled up behind and I have all of them + hundreds more on kindle anyway, which I read more often.
+--- 21926808
+I've too many stacks for shelves
+--- 21926984
+>>21925685
+--- 21927001
+Don Quixote
+2023 World Almanac
+National Geographic Desk Reference
+Holy Bible, KJV
+The Hunchback of Notre Dame
+Rat shaped book holder / bookend
+Tin with my cash money tips in it
+Websters Merriam Dictionary
+Buzzcut trimmer
+Laptop bag for storage( when i need a clear desk top)
+Paradise Lost
+3 Notebooks I fldrew with maps and bible verses in them
+DK atlas of world
+A Tale of Two Cities
+A book of Old English poetry and riddles
+
+Honduran
+25
+Prefers mtf trannies and grannies
+Virgin

lit/21921392.txt

@@ -83,9 +83,6 @@ any time, chum
 --- 21923430
 >>21923415
 ob sessed
---- 21923441
->>21923430
-No, that's just factually correct. You want to talk about "fragile" people, the Jews win by a mile. Maybe they shouldn't stir shit, if they don't want that thrown back in their faces.
 --- 21923444
 >>21923441
 You dilate how many times per day? Just once? How often do you cope and seethe about your obsession?
@@ -95,3 +92,64 @@ I almost feel bad you're so obvious and pathetic
 --- 21923453
 >>21923444
 I'm not even angry really. It's just the truth.
+--- 21923557
+White isnt a race. I am Slavic. My people suffered racism too. It isnt hard to talk about racism (from Germans and Anglo-Saxons). Its not just about dkin color. Didnt Italians in US get discriminated too? They are PERFECTLY white...
+--- 21923575
+>>21923430
+t. Kike
+--- 21924250
+>>21923415
+They got btfo by their own prophesised Messiah too because they were getting too uppity and lost all touch with their based Israelite forefathers
+>What do you mean we're no longer the main characters and can get away with sin?
+>NOO YOU CAN'T DO THAT
+>HE'S LETTING THE GOYIM INTO HEAVEN, KILL HIM!
+>NOO YOU CAN'T COME BACK THAT'S CHEATING!
+>their holy faith proceeds to become the religion and identity of civilised gentiles
+>literally call their sacred hebrew scriptures old news
+Kikes are still seething to this very day
+--- 21925024
+>>21923557
+Caucasoid is a race, you cretin. Whites are a race, they are the Germanic race. You can play word games all day, like the trannies who claim woman is a meaningless category since you can't come up with a suitable definition for their fucked up brains. That doesn't change the positive reality of the situation.
+>discrimination
+I don't care at all. It is warranted, since outside communities will normally bring crime and cultural decay. Cry about it not being fair, if you don't like it you can go back to your country where your quality of life is presumably a lot worse.
+
+>>21923430
+You just can't refute him.
+--- 21925042
+>>21925024
+White isn't a race you eurohomo. They are made of a lot of types very distinct to each other and I will never accept your kinship to my people. Our children will never breed. Go fuck yourself.
+--- 21925105
+>>21921392 (OP)
+My politics don't really extend to american culture war bullshit, but I always chuckle a bit at the term "white fragility" because I know one magic word - NIGGER - that can literally get me killed in a matter of seconds if uttered under some circumstances, will ruin my life and career under any circumstances, and can be wielded to put entire cities to the torch under other circumstances. The power of this word is immense, and it is harnessed by fragility.
+--- 21925182
+>>21921392 (OP)
+Anyone got the version of picrel where instead of "why it's so hard for white people to talk about racism" it's "why is it so hard for niggers to just behave"?
+--- 21925420
+>replying and getting mad to bait thread
+--- 21925480
+>>21921392 (OP)
+The real fragility is needing society to gatekeep words from being uttered out loud.
+Example: yelling fire in a building. Not a problem for bulls, wrecks the human.
+--- 21925520
+>>21921392 (OP)
+What are some good late 20th - 21st century Right-wing books?
+--- 21925528
+>>21921392 (OP)
+Great bait mate.
+Lol at them lining up like idiots.
+--- 21925816
+>>21925024
+I am not living in the US, nor would I want to live there in that lib cesspool og gay fascists. I am a SLAV, not a GERMAN or ANGLO. In fact, I am a mix of Slav and Ilyrian probably. White isn't arace, nor is black (many black races). Mexicans are white, Jews are white, Arabs are white. How arent they white? Its a skin color, not a race. If white was a race, only Scandinavians would be white. Rsdt of us are pink-light brown (that color thats hard to mix when you are a kid and drawing)
+--- 21926144
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM [Embed]
+--- 21926151
+>>21921393
+Fucking seriously, can at least /lit/ be spared from the faggot bullshit that is the rest of the site, cunts have gotta stop trying to be funny cause it's just gay
+--- 21926285
+>>21923447
+kek they are still doing it for free
+--- 21927321
+>>21921392 (OP)
+OP quality shit post.
+But but unironically who is the target of this book?
+Niggers are alphabets and have the lowest rate of literacy or for a mutt amerikkkans cucked leftists with guilty complex. So summarizing the target of this books are shit posters or brain dead niggers kek.

lit/21921830.txt

@@ -206,3 +206,103 @@ Not inherently, but a lot of the porn that actually exists is made unethically a
 The Manipulated Man by Esther Villar. 
 
 Suprised nobody here has mentioned it so far.
+--- 21923914
+>>21923233
+>You need Tinder and porn, because they speak the truth.
+Porn has nothing to do with abuse, contrary to the atheist propaganda. And another thing atheists push for is ''sex is about power
+Good try Jew but everybody knows that porn is very bad for men, no only give you very high/unreal standards in women but also destroy your masculinity slowly,
+--- 21923927
+>>21923270
+own it, also for MGTOW guys
+
+picrel
+--- 21923938
+>>21923233
+wow women don't make any sense
+--- 21923945
+>>21923202
+>read up on New Critical Theory
+Oh piss off. NCT is a crock of shit and everyone whose read a little and has half a brain knows it. You can’t learn anything about the world, history, or literature by looking at everything with a narrow post modern lens.
+--- 21924136
+>>21923121
+Women are overgrown children and look around you to see what happens when no one asserts dominance over them
+--- 21924146
+They don't really have a singular nature. Good luck with that.
+--- 21924148
+>>21924136
+>"Women are overgrown children and look around you to see what happens when no one asserts dominance over them"
+--- 21924190
+These was a book. then women changed their mind
+--- 21924314
+>>21921830 (OP)
+>understanding women
+'Understanding' entropy.
+--- 21924317
+>>21921867
+My mother had an affair with the gardener then divorced my dad. Memes are literally true. God knows how how manor house owners used to keep the groundsmen off their wives.
+--- 21924449
+>>21924317
+>Memes are literally true. 
+Your mom was just a whore
+--- 21924453
+>>21924148
+who's the wizard chad?
+--- 21924460
+>>21924453
+Brian Massumi
+--- 21924462
+>>21924453
+--- 21924984
+>>21924462
+>Reddit spaces
+Yeah that's a false flag
+--- 21925464
+>>21921830 (OP)
+Biology textbooks.
+>>21923233
+Women are based only because they make incels write such hilarious shit as this.
+--- 21925486
+>>21924462
+>repeat the violent offending phrase as many times as possible and as schematically as possible so it looks good on the news report
+>you got it boss
+--- 21925522
+No but there is this which comes closest 
+https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLh8oUx_ONafVSS0Sk3ToWOdTIjivPbcDI
+--- 21926719
+>>21923126
+Reminds me of some of the stuff from the book , The Manipulated Man.
+
+It's a short read so I also recommend it to OP. It doesn't get everything right but it's a eye opener for anyone who underestimates women's relationships to power.
+--- 21926759
+>>21921830 (OP)
+The honest answer is to read female authors that wrote before second wave feminism took over. Austen and the Bronte sisters captured women better than any contemporary "you go girl" nonsense written in the last 70 years.
+--- 21926765
+>>21922404
+I love hot tamales too
+--- 21926779
+>>21923112
+Best post in the entire thread. Essentially, women want a man that adds stability to their lives, and that can instantiate as wealth, physical strength and fighting prowess (for defense and overall working ability), confidence, rationality, etc. most of the chuds on this board are sheltered mamas boys who expect a woman to replace mommy. Sorry, but you don’t deserve two.
+--- 21926884
+>>21923927
+What the fuck is the point of mgtow if you're just gonna obsess over women all day.
+--- 21926953
+>>21926779
+So I have to be a millionaire and a kickboxing champion and all she has to have is a wet hole?
+--- 21927344
+>>21926953
+Yes, and if you think there's something wrong with that you're a misogynistic pig.
+--- 21927369
+>>21926953
+Also even in a committed exclusive relationship she really doesn't have to give you access to that wet hole.
+There are zero responsibilities, restrictions, obligations, or duties on her part.
+The ideal modern relationship is 100 one sided in favor of women.
+
+This is because men are luxury goods to women. They don't need men. And they don't want the vast majority of men.
+At least not in their day to day lives in a close relationship.
+
+So it's best to learn from their example and learn to live without them or view women as temporary luxuries. Not life partners for close meaningful relationships.
+--- 21927374
+>>21923945
+New Criticism isn't New Critical Theory son. New Criticism is modernist Americanism with text-as-discrete-object-of-analysis as priority and textuality within the text as central.
+New Criticism is modernist.
+Jesus fuck cunt you are dumb.

lit/21922022.txt

@@ -147,3 +147,85 @@ Of course, if you generalize anything like that, then you will not be able to as
 --- 21923357
 >>21923323
 It's all a psy-op then. The kind villagers and the cruel noblemen. You could have a village, things going peacefully, and as soon as even one nobleman becomes involved, the temperature rises twenty degrees. They may not have been brusque, but the villagers knew they were screwed. When that happens, many of these places go bottom-up—become ghost towns. I stopped reading the history on this, because even the enthusiastic and supportive historychads were aristocucks and wouldn't talk to me.
+--- 21923723
+>>21922099
+>The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.
+--- 21923727
+>>21922700
+>Why are so many people on /lit/ so bad willed?
+Check out Kierkergaard's Sickness Unto Death
+--- 21923784
+>>21923723
+didn't read
+--- 21923834
+>>21922022 (OP)
+What do you mean by combat? As a thing outside of yourself or the implications of it in yourself? I don't get it if you want to be like pic rel or to btfo them.
+--- 21924260
+>>21922088
+>>21922515
+Bullshit. There are fulfilling alternatives to religion. I dedicate my entire life to preventing the extinction of the Tapanuli Orangutan. If they do go extinct I will dedicate my life to protecting the Sumatran Orangutan.
+--- 21924514
+>>21922022 (OP)
+Exercise, relationships, and a good hobby or two. Functionally—whether anything objectively means something or nothing—is irrelevant because if purpose exists, we aren't certain of it. The only tangible meaning we as humans can identify is that which we assign ourselves. Religious people basically invent meaning just like the rest of us. They just have rules which punish them for being less certain.
+--- 21924521
+NIETZSCHE
+--- 21924714
+>>21922022 (OP)
+>No religion.
+--- 21924990
+get a hobby
+--- 21925000
+Watch a nature documentary on national geographic.
+--- 21925144
+>>21922102
+
+Brothers K
+--- 21925181
+>>21922022 (OP)
+>No religion
+Man, you've got to believe in something even if you're not religious. In science, in yourself, in your goals or even the act of not believing in anything.
+
+It may be true that life itself doesn't have any purpose, but people are the ones who give it meaning.
+--- 21925201
+>>21922022 (OP)
+--- 21925223
+>>21924260
+Keep it up anon, that's a far more noble goal and substitute to religion I've heard in awhile. Im curious though what exactley do you do to help the Oragutans?
+--- 21925266
+Your choices are religion, poetry (good luck if you didn’t grow up reading the stuff), or chasing adrenaline highs in military combat, war journalism, etc. 
+
+And by the way, this is all true. I wish someone had told me this when I was younger. It would have saved me a lot of time.
+--- 21925288
+>>21922022 (OP)
+You cant under your terms. Repent.
+--- 21925315
+I’ve started feeling like you need to find some thing to do with your life that helps you find it worthwhile or at least cope, and if you don’t find it before twenty-eight then you might be screwed.
+--- 21925553
+>>21922506
+https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadRedditors/comments/foii87/uvitrifyher/
+--- 21925569
+>>21925553
+Lol. Scary
+--- 21926092
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM [Embed]
+--- 21926125
+>>21922022 (OP)
+>How do I combat nihilism?
+Easy way is to do LSD. You'll still be a nihilist but you'll stop caring about nothingness after your death.
+--- 21926995
+>>21925315
+
+Why even believe if one can know. Doubt and fear, never done us much good.
+--- 21926997
+>>21924260
+>I dedicate my entire life to preventing the extinction of the Tapanuli Orangutan
+nihilism
+--- 21927034
+>>21924260
+Why orangutans? Why not help some depressed NEET somewhere? Also, since helping others are fulfilling can u send me money
+--- 21927108
+>>21927034
+orangutans are people too
+--- 21927120
+>>21927108
+Mmmm.... If you put it that way, but I hope he don't forget my money

lit/21922118.txt

@@ -31,3 +31,271 @@ Nobody's stopping you faggots from getting a job and a wife and a life.
 --- 21923449
 >>21922425
 Someone told me Peter Thiel’s boyfriend was murdered
+--- 21923792
+>>21922564
+A job? A wife? A life? But that's gay! You were meant to conquer cities, put them through sword and flame, indulge in feasts with your mannerbund, die a viking death (leech of your banker brother, be some podcaster mongoloid father figure to strangers online, shill for the eurasian empire and die in a nursing home)
+--- 21923829
+>>21922139
+>>21922425
+>>21922550
+>>21923792
+>>21922132
+they have been coping for the last month after 90% of them got doxxed as jews lmao, nothing against jews but it was comical after all the black sun posting, now they are trying to paint antisemitism as low-iq and trying to deflect attention against blacks and mexicans
+
+i kind of like BAP, he is funny, but his politics are useless, he is just a metropolitan urbanite
+--- 21923835
+>>21923829
+>all of the Twitter far-right edgelords were Jews
+Do you realize how much of a big deal that is? Can you process the full implications about how Jews are controlling both the far-left and far-right?
+>now they are trying to paint antisemitism as low-iq and trying to deflect attention against blacks and mexicans
+Jews seem fine with either race war or globohomo.
+--- 21923868
+BAP’s vision is for right-wing porn as he explains at the end of Bronze Age mindset but you guys can’t grasp it and just keep going on about muh jews as if there haven’t been based Jews like Bobby Fischer
+--- 21923870
+>>21922564
+Uh…you can’t just claim a woman anymore. Now they believe in crap like “consent”
+--- 21923871
+>>21923829
+do you have a list?
+--- 21923874
+>>21923871
+(as to which personalities are, but not the full dox, of course)
+--- 21923877
+>>21923871
+--- 21923881
+>>21923871
+not really doxx, but they have been saying a lot of suspicious stuff and doing a lot of damage control publicly
+--- 21923887
+>>21923871
+>>21923881
+--- 21923891
+>>21923887
+>>21923871
+--- 21923923
+It's all feds, retards and grifters from every side.
+--- 21923950
+>>21923871
+There isn’t one because the accusations come from that cringe spic fuentes and his retarded followers. If anyone in the bap wing even indirectly respond to this, it’s labeled as damage control. 
+
+Not a big fan of bap, but these hysteric jew accusations are fucking retarded.
+--- 21923959
+>>21923881
+> "white nationalism" is just a battle for your money between blacks/spics who blame jews for everything and jews who blame blacks/spics for everything
+yeah it's fucking over for Americans
+--- 21923965
+>>21923950
+The evidence seems strong to me.
+--- 21923971
+Would someone be able to give me a quick rundown on the twitter alt right? I dont have twitter and have kept myself away from those people, but I am curious if they actually have a defined set of principles or ideals that they want implemented.
+--- 21923977
+>>21922118 (OP)
+What the hell are these two losers talking about
+--- 21923979
+BrAP being a weeb and a russoboo is a typical subversion tactic
+--- 21923994
+>>21923959
+it's funny you mention that, this Zero HP guy is still coping about it kek
+--- 21924002
+>>21923950
+>There isn’t one because the accusations come from that cringe spic fuentes and his retarded followers
+fuentes is a gay retard, but BAP has never denied being a gay jew, and all his friends have been coping about it for the last month so i assume it's true, just read the comments posted in this thread
+--- 21924006
+>>21923971
+>Would someone be able to give me a quick rundown on the twitter alt right?
+gay mexicans against gay jews
+--- 21924011
+>>21924002
+BAP, whose real name is Costin Alamaru, is a Romanian Zionist Jew. A few people have exposed him:
+https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search&ghost=&search_text=Costin
+--- 21924018
+>>21922118 (OP)
+Celine's ideology is difficult to define because he was such a worm. He deliberately avoided making his politics easily categorical, and continually maintained that he was not an ideologue, but a stylist above all. 
+
+This is an excerpt from a letter between Celine and Milton Hindus:
+>The fact that you consider me a stylist makes me happy-I am that above all-in no way a thinker, God forbid! nor gr writer but stylist I believe I am-my gr-father was a professor of rhetoric at Le Havre-I take from him without a doubt this skill in emotive "rendering." ... I follow emotion closely with words I don't give it time to dress itself in sentences... I seize it totally raw or rather totally poetic-because the core of man in spite of everything is poetic.... Still it's a trick [truc] for making spoken language pass into the written-the trick I'm the one who found it no one else-all in all it's impressionism-To make spoken language pass into literature- it's not stenography-It is necessary to imprint on sentences, on intervals a certain deformation an artifice so that when you read the book, it seems as if someone is speaking in your ear-That is accomplished by the trans- position of each word. ... To render on the flat page the effect of spoken spontaneous life it is necessary to twist all of language, rhythm,cadence, words and it's a kind of poetry which provides the best spell - the impression, the bewitchment, the dynamism. 
+
+Those who have attempted to categorize Celine's ideology inevitably have had to fall back on his racism as the principal guide. His sympathy for Nazism is highly debatable and theories which state he was a fascist are flawed. Celine fashioned himself as an anarchist, but in my opinion, his anarchism was driven more by misanthropy than by a search for the proper government. What is undeniable is his racism. 
+
+This is a good essay on the topic: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1773329
+--- 21924037
+>>21924011
+yes, his doxx doesn't make him look that bad, except for being a ((())) posting black suns and hitlers which is kind of comical
+--- 21924065
+>>21924037
+>yes, his doxx doesn't make him look that bad
+Yes, it does, retarded puppet trash.
+>except for being a ((())) posting black suns and hitlers which is kind of comical
+Not comical at all. Psyops can be very advance and difficult to analyze and understand the overall objective of.
+--- 21924070
+>>21924065
+>Psyops can be very advance and difficult to analyze and understand the overall objective of.
+he's a Peter Thiel and Claremont Institute shill, it's pretty straightforward
+--- 21924079
+>>21923835
+>the full implications about how Jews are controlling both the far-left and far-right
+They managed to make leftoids (openly) gay and self hating (for being white) and rightoids (closeted) gay and self hating (for being American). Impressive, really.
+--- 21924083
+>>21924006
+So its good as a spectator sport but not something any respectable person would participate in.
+--- 21924087
+>>21924070
+>he's a Peter Thiel and Claremont Institute shill, it's pretty straightforward
+Can you please elaborate further? It's not straightforward to me atm.
+>>21924079
+I feel what they're doing with rightoids is a little bit more difficult to fully analyze or expose.
+I also feel the growth of edgelord far-right culture on 4chan was molded by them too.
+--- 21924098
+>>21924079
+Him, too?
+--- 21924109
+>just outbreed the millions of brown hordes that are poised to enter Europe in the next few decades
+--- 21924120
+I like Fuentes but he worked closely with überjew Milo for years/months and admits all the time that some of the "finest people in the movement" are jews, and now he does nothing but have spastic fits because BAP is allegedly jewish therefore evil? he's just a narcissist who can't accept it that other figures in his altright niche get more attention than him
+--- 21924121
+>>21924098
+RawEgg is in that group too, but i haven't seen him defend zionism like the others
+--- 21924130
+>>21924120
+he wrote today in Telegram that Milo tried to drug him and break his asshole, but he pushed him back kek
+--- 21924137
+>>21922118 (OP)
+>people should be doing stuff!
+>no me though, my part is to tell
+--- 21924139
+>>21924120
+You're a complete idiot, so it doesn't what you like or dislike.
+--- 21924217
+What exactly is "murderous pornography
+--- 21924218
+>>21924217
+It means like choke stuff
+--- 21924230
+>>21922425
+>>21922550
+>>21923829
+>>21923835
+>>21923868
+Jesus was a jew, wasn't he?
+--- 21924243
+>>21924120
+oh, so that's where all of this is coming from?
+/lit/, I can't believe you guys follow that latinx twink.
+--- 21924256
+>>21924065
+>Psyops can be very advance and difficult to analyze and understand the overall objective of.
+
+Well regardless of who's paying him to do this I imagine Costin is more or less what he presents himself as, a deranged pervert. He does seem to play dumb in order to foster the community of "frens"
+--- 21924277
+Jews are sex addicts and obscene
+--- 21925581
+>>21922118 (OP)
+The anglo-judeo-masonic empire (the equivalent of the ZOG) was hanging out for a bloodbath and wanted France on their side for the great clash with Germany. Céline didn't want to die for the ZOG following his terrible experience in WW1. Simple as. You could call him a racist anarchist or something like that.
+--- 21925730
+>>21922132
+no point in trying to build over mud and vermin or try to face the moneyed elite at their own game, they have the finest propaganda machine in history, a direct face-off is completely foolish, may as well have fun while the bourgeoisie tyranny reigns supreme by using their own weapons of dissolution against the petty myths they use to keep their managerial class in line aka use dissolution against dissolutors precisely because it's more economic to dissolve than to create
+--- 21925817
+>>21922118 (OP)
+incompatible with e-catamite right appropriations in service to 'post'-soviet active measures. every aggrieved GWOT memoir has more artistic integrity.
+--- 21925862
+>the twitter poster was... gay?
+--- 21925970
+>>21924277
+Makes sense.
+--- 21925979
+>>21924098
+You'd be surprised.
+
+>>21924121
+He doesn't have to. Each plays a part and grifts and shills to his particular segment. It's hilarious however when they can't resist and break character to produce the utmost yet typical coal takes.
+Can't help but be amazed at how full circle we've come to right-wingers now being the useful idiots.
+--- 21926020
+>>21922139
+>>21922425
+>>21922550
+>>21923829
+>>21923871
+>>21923874
+>>21923877
+>>21923881
+>>21923887
+>>21923891
+>>21923923
+BAP has repeatedly said that he is "connected to them". This has never been a secret.
+He said so in one of the few interviews he ever gave, more than 3 years ago.
+You can listen to it here, 40:45:
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhjenyxAm7E [Embed]
+--- 21926084
+>>21923877
+Nothing wrong with that picture. Shouting about jews all day will just make peoples eyes glaze over. Look at how kanye west came and went. People need to be smarter than that.
+--- 21926223
+>>21926084
+No it'll work this time trust me bro people are waking up
+--- 21926266
+>>21923877
+To be fair antisemites do deserve some credit here
+>disliking jews is the single most hated idea in the western world
+>all anti-establishment official opposition (the left) hates it
+>the establishment hates it, bans it, throws you in prison and destroys your life if you speak it
+>normies hate it and will destroy your life for speaking it
+>it's the one thing the establishment, otherwise apolitical dumb normies, and the official opposition (the left) can agree on and unite in destroying you over
+>even the one group that is slightly more open to it, the right, still 98% hates it and will join with the others in destroying you
+>for decades
+>there is no social reward for being an antisemite
+>you have to be a complete crank to do it 
+>somehow, a minority of people continue to do it for decades on end out of sheer principle
+>just as it seems like they're dwindling into minority, and their efforts were all for nothing, it suddenly comes back in a big way
+>suddenly the most interesting counterculture the western world has seen in a century is more or less openly antisemitic
+>suddenly all the repressive techniques the establishment used to suppress it backfire and just discredit the establishment
+>the left is (further) discredited by its association with the establishment in suppressing it
+>normies are afraid of being associated with the gay left and the lame establishment, so drift by default away from anti-antisemitism 
+You gotta hand it to them, antisemites bet big and won big. They're sort of the heroic underdogs of the last 50 years.
+--- 21926300
+>>21926020
+he's not referring specifically to that in the clip
+--- 21926331
+Celine’s ideology is a nihilistic and anarchic rejection of the modern world and its values
+--- 21926391
+>>21925730
+Sounds a lot like what nogs would say (if they had a way with fancy words) for those fiery but mostly peaceful protests.
+
+>>21926084
+That'd be a fair point if their goal was to avoid being caricatures so normal people would take them seriously. Which it is obviously not. Furthemore, they gladfully extend this excuse to Russians and Chinese too, both if not hostile actors definite enjoyers of the downfall. So all left to shift the blame on is, conveniently, the Anglo-Saxon, the Whites, the White women, the West, so on. Sounds awfully familiar.
+--- 21926499
+>>21926266
+>the most interesting counterculture the western world has seen in a century
+lol
+>normies are afraid of being associated with the gay left and the lame establishment, so drift by default away from anti-antisemitism
+>antisemites bet big and won big
+memes won't feed your children
+--- 21926899
+>>21926391
+/pol/ is a mostly self propagated demoralization campaign
+--- 21927165
+It was really fucking funny watching all of these guys pick a fight with the Catholics and realize, to their horror, that the Trads they thought they could rely on turned out to be way more pro-life than they expected.
+--- 21927268
+>>21927165
+it was funny seeing the bathhouse-right seething at christians for winning the abortion stuff, "noooo you can't just impose your values on your enemies, pro-life is not actually popular, most people love abortion"
+--- 21927311
+>>21927268
+The thing is that in the end they're all just fucking nihilists who don't believe in the transcendent. That's the whole sad truth behind the "recover pagan vitalism" charade. They are just dingy materialists who don't think there's a world beyond the mud and the skin and the shit. It's why they're so vacuuous, and it's why every time they try to fight actually-practicing Christians they get destroyed, because the Christians are actually animated by the transcendent.
+
+The commies, for all their flaws, believe in something transcendent too. It's vicious and wicked but it's transcendent. They are Hegelians, after all, and Hegel speaks of ghosts and spirits, in a way Marx was never able to fully expunge.
+
+That's honestly why the big fight for the planet is probably going to come down to commies versus Christians, with Muslims and Buddhists playing this or that supporting role. It's a matter of two visions of higher reality going to war with each other. Meanwhile the pagans and the racial supremacists will just get brushed aside.
+--- 21927335
+>>21927268
+It’s just about dysgenics. And christians haven’t won the abortion stuff, and never will, as long as their “values” makes them support their enemies. The people who would have been aborted will make it their mission to destroy you and your values.
+--- 21927341
+>>21924277
+--- 21927359
+>>21927335
+Steve Sailer proved that abortion is dysgenic on a society level, or at least it has been in the implementation that happened in the 70s in the USA
+>And christians haven’t won the abortion stuff, and never will, as long as their “values” makes them support their enemies.
+what did you mean by this? christians won a legal battle by overturning 1973 Roe Vs Wade, it's not a total victory, but it's more than most conservatives have done in decades
+--- 21927367
+>>21927311
+Nietzsche wasn’t a nihilist
+--- 21927387
+>>21927359
+He didn’t, he just showed that it didn’t have the effects some people were asserting, but he never proved it to be dysgenic. But even if the implementation as such wasn’t eugenic when it happened, banning it is a different question, since the social damage is already done.
+Total victory is all that matters, this won’t make you win in the long run

lit/21922131.txt

@@ -102,3 +102,74 @@ just post the idea and I'll write it for you
 Failed get.
 
 I don't know
+--- 21923766
+NURSING ASS N' TAINT
+--- 21923770
+>>21922131 (OP)
+>get chat gpt
+>edit it
+--- 21923826
+>>21922131 (OP)
+3 realizations that should help you start
+1) You can start anywhere. No need to think of the perfect opener or anything like that as your first move. That kind of thing can just bog you down.
+2) Style can come later. If you really like the idea and you want it down you can just put it down in plain terms and turn on the style during revision.
+3) You don't have to judge your plot harshly when getting it down initially. Plot holes can be ironed out once you flesh out the idea, and the best way to flesh out the idea is to write it.
+Bonus) You don't have to hold on to the thing if it doesn't feel like it is working while you write it, but you have to start writing it before you can know it doesn't work. So go for it!
+--- 21924237
+>>21922131 (OP)
+I've been pretty active in this thread and just now I'm noticing there's
+a post about writing alongside that meme
+--- 21924272
+>>21922131 (OP)
+So good, no good. It's not an iq thing. We've retarded the english language so much you're either too fast or still too slow to understand womenspeak. They still can't use double negatives correctly.
+--- 21924280
+>>21922766
+Half of it is literally the make-up, you can show all the proof but they will still cake their faces every morning.
+--- 21924511
+>>21922144
+By your nide, even.
+--- 21924592
+>>21922144
+I don't get it either.
+--- 21924617
+>>21922224
+>>21922262
+>>21922681
+>>21923045
+>>21923098
+ Kek these boomers are amused
+--- 21924782
+>>21922222
+trips of truth.
+--- 21924820
+>>21922131 (OP)
+write the interesting part first. You can go back and write the beginning afterwards.
+--- 21924837
+>>21922131 (OP)
+Explain pic related to me and i will give you an unironically good tip on writing
+--- 21925231
+>>21922229
+She said replace S with N.
+--- 21926215
+>>21924617
+Is there a new zoomer trend that involved not checking digits?
+--- 21926257
+>>21922131 (OP)
+who the fuck wants an over-the-hill 26yo lmao
+--- 21926302
+>>21922131 (OP)
+I make a tough outline and then just start writing the interesting scenes relating to those points on the outline. Even if it's out of order.
+Then I write transition parts so it fits together as a narrative.
+I read over the whole thing, then I basically rewrite most of it in order, mostly by memory as a coherent narrative rather than the initial collection of scenes.
+After that it's just the matter of polish, line editing and proofreading.
+Though I should point out I never wrote a book. I use this method for short stories and scripts.
+It would likely turn into quite the mess if you used my method for a full book unless your organization was super on point.
+--- 21926313
+>>21922131 (OP)
+>Imagine how good your life would be if you had a 26yo nurning annintant by your nide.
+
+I think I misunderstood the assignment.
+--- 21926633
+I struggle with writing out of order too, so I just force myself to go in order. Part of the fun is having characters that are strong enough to write the story for you. I know the major plot points, but the in between and how they get there, I leave up to chance. And if I skip around, then I feel I am constraining what comes before it. Doesn't feel natural to me. So if I'm in a rut, I usually just do the shitty thing to do and rewrite the paragraphs above me and then that usually gets me in the flow of things. 
+
+Writing is two steps back, one step forward a lot of the time.

lit/21922275.txt

@@ -165,3 +165,142 @@ Small dick
 --- 21923304
 >>21922275 (OP)
 Narcissism and indulgent parents.
+--- 21923596
+>>21922483
+>maybe he was one of the early pioneers 
+
+nope, just a modern retard
+--- 21923668
+I understand the draw of the wilderness, but to do so without any preparation and then refuse the help of rightfully concerned people makes him completely unlikable. It's a bit like Timothy Treadwell thinking the bears were his friends. Naive idealism gets people killed.
+--- 21923690
+>>21923245
+>he lived an authentic life, heroically.
+Retard went out innawoods and starved to death because he had no knowledge of how to actually survive in the wild. Instead of championing deluded romantics, look at the story of a guy like Richard Proenneke. He's the genuine Henry David Thoreau-like character you're looking for.
+--- 21923900
+>>21923690
+his dad abused him. sister went public about it a while ago. so it's "trauma victim with trauma induced daddy issues did something traumatic people do"
+
+but hurr hurr edgy n cool comment
+--- 21923908
+>>21922379
+Apparently he always had a history of weird behavior like this. And nta but I do consider running off into the wilderness to accomplish ??? a sign of mental illness. Its not like he cut off his family to go live a his own independent functional life.
+--- 21924069
+>>21923900
+"Traumatic" people go off into the Alaskan bush, eschewing all warnings and offers of help with absolutely no experience? That's heroic to you?
+--- 21924080
+>>21923908
+
+Then Thoreau was mentally ill as well as all monks and philosophers. Not to mention all explorers and adventurers.
+
+Actually the only people who have ever mattered in history were people who exhibited "weird behavior" and "ran off" to explore, to conquer or to find enlightenment.
+--- 21924081
+>>21923900
+Yeah, NTA but I get a kick out of people reading heroism into traumatic naivety and stupidity. I have met so many damaged types like that, they get an idea in their heads that sounds like a cool story of transformation on the surface but underneath is a suicide note. Y'know, it's like the true crime documentaries where the creepy dude with the pedo glasses rapes and murders some kid and the mom he swindled is like "I just don't know how this could happen, I never saw it coming", except the dumb bitch is anyone who finds a heroic story that tickles their pickle instead of a cautionary tale on what IRL mental illness looks like. 
+
+And if you're into physiognomy, that one picture of him sets off a lot of red flags. He has a look you see on those that have been through the foster system and aren't quite right because of it.
+--- 21924084
+>>21922275 (OP)
+It's clear that McCandless had some form of autism. However, you can't attribute that alone to his actions. The truth is that McCandless felt a real passion for adventure and exploration of the Earth and that's what drove him on his adventure. This >>21922417 is a fair assessment.
+>>21922442
+To be fair, McCandless was aware that he could've spent more time and money working up to the challenge, but he wasn't interested in that. He wanted to go balls deep. He didn't want to die, but he understood that it was a possibility. McCandless was intentionally unprepared. It wasn't a wise decision, but he knew that too.
+>>21922444
+He was certainly not one of a kind. In the book Krakauer relays the stories of several individuals very similar to McCandless. 
+>>21922600
+>The classical thinkers all knew socialization was the mark of a civilized person, and we are meant to live in a society.
+McCandless was aware of this too. His great adventure was a social one. He spent two years on the road and not much of that time was spent totally alone. Out of those two years of travelling and making connections with people, only 114 days were spent totally alone in Alaska. 
+>>21922825
+Well it's important to remember that McCandless did not go in the winter, and did not intend to be there during it. He also purposefully went in gear-lilght, even though he knew it was not a wise decision. Something that people often forget is that McCandless was actually skilled in hunting and preserving meat, however he learned all of these skills while living in South Dakota, and the methods and techniques one employs there do not apply to the Alaskan environment. Hence the Moose disaster. I also hesitate to say that McCandless died because he was unprepared. On one hand, his refusal to use a map prevented him from knowing about the cable-car across the river, but on the other hand, that's not what really killed him. McCandless died because the field guide to foraging did not explain to him that eating the seeds of the plant he was foraging in high volumes would poison him.
+--- 21924092
+>>21924080
+See >>21924081
+You sound like you're looking for a compelling story, enough to twist the truth that Thoreau was a 20 minute walk from town.
+--- 21924093
+>>21922742
+>>21922825
+
+I had a friend who did somethign very similar before McCandless became famous for it, leaving uni and wintering in Alaska in the woods.
+
+All the time I thought he was freezing to death, but it turned out there are pockets of Alaska that actually have Seattle-type weather, so he was far more comfortable than I imagined.
+--- 21924103
+>>21924084
+>McCandless died because the field guide to foraging did not explain to him that eating the seeds of the plant he was foraging in high volumes would poison him.
+
+Isn't it more likely he would have died from rabbit starvation? I mean what were his sources of fat? He couldn't have preserved enough from the moose and may not even have been aware of the risk of rabbit starvation.
+--- 21924105
+>>21924093
+Alaska is not the completely frozen wasteland which many assume it is. Where McCandless was camped was not a terribly cold area either. It's not the cold which makes much of Alaska a difficult place to live, it's the rain and the desolation.
+--- 21924141
+>>21924103
+If he was stuck there long enough without knowing how to get out, it's absolutely likely he would would have died from some form of starvation. However as it is, there isn't evidence to suggest he died from, or was even suffering from protein poisoning. Also, McCandless was killing and eating porcupines, which do have a decent amount of fat, so there is one source. 
+
+What truly killed him was eating the raw seeds of a wild potato plant. The movie misrepresents this in the scene which implies that McCandless accidentally consumed a poisonous plant which looks similar to a non-poisonous one. However, in reality, McCandless never made such a mistake. He was foraging and consuming wild potato plants which are safe to eat, however the seeds contain an anti-metabolic toxin which affects mammals. McCandless's field guide failed to mention this as Krakauer pointed out. Consuming those seeds in high quantities while on a stressed diet likely gave McCandless lathyrism, weakening him and preventing him from being able to forage. Then the toxins blocked his metabolic processes preventing him from gaining any nutrients from other food he had. Eventually he did starve to death because of these events.
+--- 21924167
+>>21924084
+>He didn't want to die
+He called his trip his "final" adventure. He was suicidal, paranoid and manic
+--- 21924184
+>>21922434
+Manic depressives 
+this anons image always gets ignored in these discussions
+>>21924167
+--- 21924294
+>>21924167
+"Final," here does not mean that he means for this adventure to be the last thing he ever does. It was the finale of his great adventure. McCandless intended to go home after Alaska. He regretted that he would not be able to, but made peace with his own death in the end.
+--- 21924320
+>>21924080
+Thoreau is not a good argument because Walden is fiction.
+--- 21925653
+Regardless of if he was autistic, suicidal, or stupid, it's time for /lit/ to accept that his story is the most tightly written tragedy of the last 50 years. None of this is thanks to Krakauer, of course, who spends most of the book engaging in onanistic diversions. No, the strength of the story comes from concept alone. 
+
+An abused youngin finds solace in the wilderness. It's Romantic. Americanly Romantic! Something Emerson might have smirked at, had he been around to see it. This youngin grows up unable to process the abuse, and mentally retreats from society around him while socially thriving in it. He had good grades from a good school. People spoke highly of him. He was decently attractive. He was set to have a solid life most of us would look twice at. The time comes, however, and he rejects it. Donates his money and abandons it all. Heads west. 
+
+Sure, he makes friends. None get terribly close, however, as Chris is in a spiral of self-exile. He goes west until there is no more west to go. Then he goes north. Then he goes west some more. Finally he reaches true solitude, and in the pursuit, understands and acknowledges that this final thrust of independence could very well kill him, and it starts to. He starts to die. On his death bed, in his last waking thoughts, he has an epiphany. 
+
+HAPPINESS ONLY REAL WHEN SHARED
+
+Everything he ran towards turned out to be hollow, and the tainted thing he ran from turned out to be the only thing he wanted in the end. Now isn't that fucked up? It's a perfect tragedy. I only wish someone better than the egotistical Krakauer could have been the one to tell the story.
+--- 21925880
+>>21925653
+>the egotistical Krakauer
+Why do you say this? Is it something you're able to infer from reading his writing?
+--- 21925886
+>>21922505
+It's anti-intellectual, but not dumb.
+--- 21925898
+>>21925880
+Absolutely. Here's a wonderful story about the naive, hopeful transcendentalist failing in the modern world. How do we feel about that? Do we support him? Chastise him? Maybe both? 
+
+Who knows, because Krakauer spends a gee dee third of the book talking about his own adventure climbing a mountain, which feels very removed tonally from McCandless' adventure. I love Chris' story and it had a very real impact on me as a youngin myself, and I think it was presented to the public in a lackluster, inflammatory way. 
+
+Also, while im on the topic, which McCandless had a better adventure? Pic related
+--- 21925952
+>>21923690
+i never said his death was heroic. his death it the least interesting part of his life. i said he lived heroically; on his own terms, with more freedom, humanity and authenticity than any of u sad domesticated losers will experience
+--- 21926003
+>>21922275 (OP)
+Haven't any of you morons read My Side of the Mountain?
+--- 21926124
+>>21926003
+It's fiction. Probably more so than Walden.
+--- 21926163
+>>21926003
+I loved that book as a child. It's the first 'chapter book' I ever read I think.
+--- 21926167
+>>21922275 (OP)
+Let's pretend his passion was Nascar driving...
+
+Christopher McCandless sets off, from California in an old car he rebuilt himself (he replaced the fenders and painted it), on a trip to the Daytona 500. He only gets across the state line when he runs out of fuel because he forgot to fill it up. Instead of simply walking to the nearest gas station or flagging down help he decides to push his car over an embankment and set it on fire. He then proceeds to walk on foot to the nearest car lot (which happens to be in Mexico for some reason, mostly because he burned up his map in the car and he's been taking backroads). He finds an old bicycle in a garbage dump and uses that.
+
+He finally gets to the car lot and buys a fixer-upper for $50. Before leaving the car lot he has to change a tire, which he replaces with a solid rubber donut. He buys fuel and heads off to the Daytona 500 again. Only he's heading deeper into Mexico and eventually ends up broken down in front of "Autodromo Internacional de la Jolla" due to no water in the radiator. The engine block has seized up. Luckily, there's a race about to start. Christopher...er "Alexander Superspeeder", who changed his name, pays the $125 entry fee for the race.
+
+Unfortunately, Alexander Superspeeder doesn't have a race car. He does however have an old bicycle still. He uses the bicycle to race. He makes it only 3 laps before he is too tired to steer straight and veers off into a race car and is killed.
+
+Some Jew picks up his story and writes a book about his life and how he followed his dreams. Another Jew makes a movie about it. Armchair racers around the world adore him.
+
+The End.
+--- 21926258
+>>21926003
+No not yet
+--- 21926315
+>>21926167
+u just described a life that is over 9000 times more exciting and fulfilling than the one u are currently living

lit/21922427.txt

@@ -1,3 +1,134 @@
 -----
 --- 21922427
 >It is the ultimate goal of almost all human effort; it has an unfavourable influence on the most important affairs, interrupts every hour the most serious occupations, and sometimes perplexes for a while even the greatest minds. It does not hesitate to intrude with its trash, and to interfere with the negotiations of statesmen and the investigations of the learned. It knows how to slip its love-notes and ringlets even into ministerial portfolios and philosophical manuscripts. Every day it brews and hatches the worst and most perplexing quarrels and disputes, destroys the most valuable relationships, and breaks the strongest bonds. It demands the sacrifice sometimes of life or health, sometimes of wealth, position, and happiness. Indeed, it robs of all conscience those who were previously honourable and upright, and makes traitors of those who have hitherto been loyal and faithful. Accordingly, it appears on the whole as a malevolent demon, striving to pervert, to confuse, and to overthrow everything. If we consider all this, we are induced to exclaim: Why all this noise and fuss? Why all the urgency, uproar, anguish, and exertion? It is merely a question of every Jack finding his Jill.337 Why should such a trifle play so important a role, and constantly introduce disturbance and confusion into the well-regulated life of man? To the earnest investigator, however, the spirit of truth gradually reveals the answer. It is no trifle that is here in question; on the contrary, the importance of the matter is perfectly in keeping with the earnestness and ardour of the effort. The ultimate aim of all love-affairs, whether played in sock or in buskin, is actually more important than all other aims in man’s life; and therefore it is quite worthy of the profound seriousness with which everyone pursues it. What is decided by it is nothing less than the composition of the next generation. The dramatis personae who will appear when we have retired from the scene are determined, according to their existence and their disposition, by these very frivolous love-affairs. Just as the being, the existentia, of these future persons is absolutely conditioned by our sexual impulse in general, so is their true nature, their essentia, by the individual selection in the satisfaction of this impulse, i.e., by sexual love; and by this it is in every respect irrevocably fixed.
+--- 21923517
+>>21922427 (OP)
+
+Nice snek you got there ... :)
+--- 21923523
+>>21922427 (OP)
+>incel writes on love
+Yawn
+The blind speaking on color.
+--- 21923537
+>>21922427 (OP)
+why do these 19th century faggots think the meaning of life is to be le great men? were they all just homosexuals?
+--- 21923592
+>>21922427 (OP)
+>interrupts every hour the most serious occupations
+>the most serious occupations
+stopped reading there, what a chud lol.
+If for something, I love postmodernity because ppl like these nowadays would be very apparently and clear to the eye as repulsive onions nerds, wearing ugly clothes that reveal their pathetic physicality, whose places are filled with Funko toys, D&D and anime action figures, videogame posters and pop-science atheism porn books.
+Back then they would dress in nice Victorian clothes and worked prestigious academic jobs, it would be really sucked to be a woman and to be fooled into marriage with an individual of this sort.
+--- 21923609
+>>21922427 (OP)
+>interrupts every hour the most serious occupations
+Which would be...? Surely not writing hundreds of pages of metaphysical speculation that will, at best, entertain a couple of wankers and pseuds for some leisure hours, or (omg now that's seeerious bro!) create a few academic """jobs"""
+--- 21923615
+Problem with love is that, there are very few truly attractive people, who can keep the flame of love from expiring just by being angelic. For anyone else you will need a person of the same depth as you are, or one that is willing to make the journey.
+Either is fine with me.
+--- 21923617
+As Weininger said, Schopenhauer never experienced love, only sexual desire, so he completely misunderstood the nature of love, which is in many ways the opposite of the sexual.
+--- 21923619
+>>21922427 (OP)
+SEXOOOOOOOOOOOO
+--- 21923620
+>>21922427 (OP)
+Who is this whore 
+I need more pictures of her so I can cum
+--- 21923625
+Reason evolved after "love". Fauna "love" each other all the time.
+--- 21923686
+>>21923592
+Women had it great back then. Feel bad for them now.
+--- 21923712
+>>21923609
+Ah yes, because schopenhauer has evidently had no influence on culture or thought at large. Also since you are an ADHD tiktok addict retard, you didnt even finish the first sentence that says what these investigations are.
+--- 21923728
+>>21923686
+>Feel bad for them now
+One could only feel bad for then now because of the self destructive path they seem to eagerly chose to walk, but until they fall apart it's just a hedonistic high 24/7 deprived of any feelings of shame or guilt, without agency or self accountability of any sort. 
+Top that with having female hysteria legitimised and glorified by several strands of contemporary politics. Women are the prime citizens of the LGBTQ community, not faggots or trans that are absolutely irrelevant to the main population. Without women endorsing it for all the bonuses granted to them LGBTQ would not even be on the map.
+--- 21923799
+>>21922427 (OP)
+> Just as the being, the existentia, of these future persons is absolutely conditioned by our sexual impulse in general, so is their true nature, their essentia, by the individual selection in the satisfaction of this impulse, i.e., by sexual love; and by this it is in every respect irrevocably fixed.
+Pure inceldom.
+--- 21923809
+>>21922427 (OP)
+>no reverse image search results
+what the...
+--- 21923825
+>>21923809
+From /sffg/. This is your average Bakker enjoyer.
+--- 21923839
+>>21923617
+Weininger is the last incel to talk about love
+--- 21924284
+>>21923825
+uwotm8
+--- 21924300
+>>21922427 (OP)
+I really don't care if she has a dick or not, would eat/suck regardless
+--- 21924330
+>>21923809
+yes there is
+--- 21924348
+>>21923839
+>doesn't know about my diary desu
+--- 21924353
+>>21923809
+This means nothing anymore. Modern search engines are so neutered in the name of privacy that they're practically useless. I've reverse searched twitter images with twitter filenames first posted on twitter just a few weeks ago and Google couldn't figure out where the fuck it came from.
+--- 21924373
+>>21922427 (OP)
+Bitch needs to eat a cheeseburger
+--- 21924444
+>>21923523
+He got several women pregnant out of wedlock.
+>>21923537
+Why do these 21st century faggots think the meaning of life is to suck on the teat of some pseudo-mommy thot? Are they all just eunuchs?
+--- 21924448
+>>21922427 (OP)
+That's a man btw
+--- 21924584
+>>21924330
+On which one 
+I've tried yandex and tineye
+--- 21924610
+>>21923523
+Schoppy had a normal sex life.
+--- 21924616
+>>21924584
+nvm google found her
+--- 21924675
+>>21924448
+I'm not so sure about that anon...
+--- 21924776
+She's a female you bunch of neurotic imbeciles.
+
+Syop being christian kids, ask /p/ for some good female photographers or start archiving (piracy)
+
+Even the russians kids have one on 2ch gg
+--- 21924802
+>>21923617
+/thread
+--- 21924823
+>>21923728
+>without women, there would be no LGBTQ
+That’s a good point actually. Women dictate much of the social rituals, what classifies as taboo, and otherwise. I wonder if it were possible for men to influence them so that they could start dictating the predominant culture to resemble its former state of normalcy, because frankly, I’m sick halfway to death of these faggots and transychos injecting their delusional fantasies into everyone’s daily lives. Sick of it.
+--- 21925411
+>>21924823
+>I wonder if it were possible for men to influence them
+I am very pessimistic about this since it's been many decades the "male oppression" narrative is going on and it's only increasing in firepower.
+What women get from supporting LGBTQ is, apart from the moral right to commit abortion on a whim, the supposed "liberation from male oppression" - whatever it could remotely mean at any moment at this point.
+Women don't seem very aware that they are really the first thing that LGBTQ is trying to destroy: the concept of womanhood itself. Or to better put it they aren't aware of the implications of such statements because they have proven to be easily lured by short term "rewards" of doubtful nature, in fact only theoretical or at best mediatic.
+Men can't do much but trying to stay engaged in the debate and point out the absurdities of it, and surely some women will be able to snap out of this nonsense. The majority of them? Doubtful
+--- 21926224
+>>21922427 (OP)
+Birth control has irrevocably changed the entire dynamic. I wonder how he'd feel about it
+--- 21926229
+>>21924823
+>Women dictate much of the social rituals, what classifies as taboo
+I’ve written polemics on this topic before
+--- 21926235
+>>21925411
+Women can’t into introspection. It’s a fools errand.

lit/21922485.txt

@@ -47,3 +47,81 @@ This is helpful, thank you.
 --- 21923154
 >>21922485 (OP)
 Scofield.
+--- 21923579
+If you want to stick with KJV, my rec is a Cambridge Cameo KJV with Apocrypha.
+If you want to learn more about scriptures, then I recommend the New Oxford Annotated Bible in RSV (not NRSV) with Expanded Apocrypha, as it has a non-gendercucked translation but with plenty of academic notes and includes the deuterocanonical books of both Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
+--- 21923630
+>>21922485 (OP)
+Get the KJV 1611 Edition with the Apocrypha and supplement that with other books
+https://youtu.be/zUxfmpZPYPI [Embed]
+https://youtu.be/v_7rtki6htw [Embed]
+--- 21923632
+>>21922508
+>Which material book did spiritual Jesus own?
+Considering Jesus is believed to be God by the Christians he certainly knew the content of every book that was written and would be written.
+You are not God so start following the Bible from Genesis to Revelation which includes studying the Scriptures hard
+>And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. 7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.
+--- 21923700
+>>21922584
+Make sure to get Apocrypha. Sirach and Solomon's wisdom book are both incredible. The best leather bound are by Oxford, Ignatius, Cambridge, or Schulman for bibles.
+--- 21923915
+>>21922485 (OP)
+Clarion or Pitt Minion, depending on how portable you want it and how good your eyesight is. Schuyler also makes some good paragraph editions. 
+
+>>21922584
+It's generally accurate and preserves details that other modern translations don't. It is however laden with poor scholarship of Hebrew and occasionally questionable Greek. Later translations are almost all based on it and ruin the prosody while "fixing" what didn't need fixing and adding their own issues. The KJV retains literal and alternate translations in the margins that usually align with more specialized translations that aren't trying to present it to midwits with an 8th grade reading level. Lots of stumbles here and there but nothing you can't fix with a fine tipped pen.
+--- 21923949
+The only "Bible" you should have is the Nag Hammadi Codex. Otherwise just get the Quran!
+--- 21923987
+>>21923154
+Ha! A true classic for any Evangelical :)
+--- 21924175
+>>21923949
+>Otherwise just get the Quran
+Which Quran are you talking about? There are at least 26 different versions
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcoMB8nJWmw [Embed]
+--- 21924223
+what are your criteria here?
+what do you want to use your copy for, exactly?
+--- 21925404
+>>21924223
+I guess a study Bible would be most appropriate. 
+I want the version of the text that will help me learn the most about what the Bible says. I don’t want the language to be so indecipherable, but I would prefer that to it being so dumbed down that I don’t grasp the true meaning. Will be used by me only, at home.
+--- 21925942
+>>21925404
+Stay away from teh Scofield Study bible. Complete filth and heresy. You will be damned to hell if you start to read the Scofield study.
+--- 21926069
+>>21925404
+Study Bibles blow fat dicks and are midwit territory at best. I don't have a horse in the race but medieval jewish commentary of the old testament is better than the trash published now. Commentary is single author shit or not worth it. There is no winning no matter what you do, it takes more than one translation and a metric fuckload of commentary to get the most out of it. 
+
+You can have most of these used for cheap or free online. Others are, well they're expensive. I'd get a classy translation in a nice format with paragraph format, preferably single columns that aren't stupid wide, wide margins and annotate it yourself. The KJV is an occasionally difficult and outright painfully obtuse read at times but it's easier to annotate than anything else. You fix words, not sentences. You pay for format and convenience, I paid for the convenience of the Alter translation. I'd pay for a Rashi set if I gave enough of a fuck about Hebrew. I have little good to say about jews other than that they price their own products for their own fairly for what you get. 
+
+For a single bible translation for reading? Good format, good price? RSV oxford annotated hardback, new Cambridge paragraph in any format, Pitt Minion if you don't mind small font, wide margin Cambridge if you want larger font but the same format, Alter for 70 bucks if you only want to read the old testament with excellent commentary in fuckhueg hardback. A few other publishers do nice bindings for well under a hundred bucks. 
+
+It's more like you want a core edition that has a nice layout and room to annotate and use a website that feels like hacking the matrix for clarifying things. I wouldn't pay for commentary, especially not by anyone who is long dead or an evangelical council.
+--- 21926079
+>>21922485 (OP)
+If you take your religion seriously, learn Hebrew and read the Bible the way it was actually written.
+If you do insist on getting a translation, I recommend getting actual Jewish versions of the Tanakh with commentaries from the Jewish sages so that you can at least begin to understand what the text actually says, instead of reading yet another falsified edition with ignorant and misguided commentaries thrown together by J_sus worshipers.
+
+Artscroll carries Jewish books of very high quality, including interlinear editions that have both the original Hebrew and the English translation:
+https://www.artscroll.com/Categories/BKS.html
+
+sefaria.org also has a lot of scripture in both English and Hebrew/Aramaic.
+
+Or even better, listen to genuine Rabbis read the Torah with you on YouTube, or read through one of the many Weekly Torah Portion series that you'll find on various Jewish websites. Search for the keyword "Parashah" which is the name of the weekly Torah portions that Jews traditionally read throughout the year. Or maybe even ask a Rabbi how to become a Righteous Gentile and follow his advice, if you're not too shy.
+--- 21926210
+>>21926079
+What gives you the best perspective of goyim the way they receive the texts, if they actually read it? I went ESV but I live in the south and not the fruity liberal part.
+--- 21926306
+Why buy?
+This one is on archive.org .
+--- 21926671
+So… does anyone want to give me a summary of the differences between various versions? I know of the KJV, the NKJV (which, from what I understand, updates the archaic language), and the NIV (which I have not heard anything good about). I can look this information up on the internet, but you might want to explain it to me in your own words.
+--- 21926967
+>>21926671
+KJV for soul
+NRSV(CE) for brain
+ESV for body (opposite sex appeal)
+
+Thats about all you need to know.

lit/21922507.txt

@@ -34,3 +34,140 @@ Kek there's probably nothing but hell more likely that exists than heaven. Thing
 --- 21923432
 >>21922507 (OP)
 Interesting suicide apparatus. I'm still convinced by Schopenhauer that starvation is the only method worth enduring. Total denial of the Will.
+--- 21923464
+>>21922876
+I wanna see Tartaros for myself , retarded christcuck
+--- 21923479
+>>21922688
+>Mum: selfish fuck took his own life which isnt even his.
+--- 21923482
+>>21922699
+>my name starts with M
+Evry day this site is turning me more schizo, just yesterday I passed by a prostitute that looked strikingly similar...
+All the while thinking I should buy her for last night to went yet I didn't
+--- 21923484
+>>21923482
+>Vent
+Fuck you phone I'm entitled to anonymous pity partying
+--- 21923518
+>>21922507 (OP)
+Try doing it in Limerick form
+
+There once was a loser called anon
+a total dissapointment of a son
+he decided fuck this
+and slashed his wrist
+bled out in the bath and was gone
+--- 21923554
+Don’t you find it intriguing to exist? What hedonistic curse have you laid upon your life that the wonders of future bless outweigh your current predicament? Maybe if you committed some sex crime or life in jail sure but what could you possibly fail at so hard that your life is worthy of ending abruptly? If you are going to do it for some end-of-suffering reason do enlighten us but if you answer such an answer as “le no meaning” or no goth girlfriend than you’re a faggot and should embrace hard work to resolve your meaningless pitiful existence into hardcore meaningfulness. I’m sure you’re going to answer with “le gomamet”, “le capitalism”, “le tired”, or “le Alexander the great achieved so much” blah blah blah. What? What is so bad that you’d remove a perfect body compared to someone with ALS or CP? Imagine having a degenerative disease that gets worse when you WANT to live. Now, speak OP or forever be a basement faggot who lives in a fantasy in their own head.
+--- 21923648
+>>21922688
+Simple and straightforward. I like it. 
+Overwrought suicide notes are horrible. If you have so much to say you might as well stick around and annoy people with your incessant whining. If you’re actually looking to die you’re done with life, why the fuck are you writing a novel about it?
+--- 21923672
+How old are you?
+--- 21923676
+https://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/eo.aspx
+--- 21923684
+>>21923554
+What would you say if he said he didn’t find it intriguing? or that it doesn’t really mad that others have it worse considering they have different hopes for life?
+--- 21923693
+>>21922507 (OP)
+Go and stay at a monastery near you. Email them - it's free and they'll feed you.
+--- 21923790
+>>21922876
+low iq
+
+>>21923428
+To me the scary thing is if humanity figures out how to revive the dead at some point. That means that, from our perspective, the second after we die, we wake back up and the ride never ends, as the odds are, on an infinitely long timescale, some other race or human culture would raise us from the dead yet again.
+--- 21923894
+>>21923432
+mommy dasha
+--- 21924056
+>>21922507 (OP)
+Just write what you want to write, how you want to write it. The important thing is that you feel like you have said what you wanted to say so you can have peace of mind about it.
+>>21923428
+>why wouldn't they just get worse in eternity?
+Because NDEs have already proven that there is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die. So things will only get exponentially better when we leave this simulated world.
+
+Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:
+
+https://youtu.be/U00ibBGZp7o [Embed]
+
+It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:
+
+https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist 
+
+>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
+
+Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the undeniably real world by comparison.
+
+Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:
+
+>"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."
+
+Needless to say, even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs.
+>>21923554
+>Don’t you find it intriguing to exist?
+Existence is vastly more fascinating on the other side. Life is just a short dream adventure in a crazy world.
+--- 21924194
+>>21924056
+stale pasta
+--- 21924235
+>>21922507 (OP)
+Don't write a suicide note make it look like you were killed.
+--- 21924380
+remember:
+>empty your bowels BEFORE hanging
+or they will release themselves after
+--- 21924466
+I promised myself decades ago that I would never utter or write what the shadow is that haunts my life. I employed many techniques to keep the shadow at bay. Some of these techniques created suffering much worse than I had imagined, yet none of it was worse than the fate that would await me if I ever bowed to the shadow. I would rather die than bow to the shadow. 
+Thus.
+--- 21924685
+>>21922507 (OP)
+Brother get off of this site and start living life. I believe in you.
+--- 21924697
+Why do you want to die?
+--- 21924806
+>>21923432
+What is the WebM from?
+--- 21924891
+>>21924380
+Not my problem
+--- 21924904
+>>21923693
+Most of the monasteries in my state are actually convents.
+--- 21924950
+>>21923518
+>>21923432
+>>21922688
+>>21923479
+>>21922937
+this, and put in some effort with a story circle or heros journey framework and write a short story where the character's journey ends up where your friend is at.
+
+just so that everyone knows that it's you and not a hit job, so everyone will know you did it. Uhhh a literary calling card or signet ring sigil pressed into the wax, but psychologically speaking. If anyone read the story and was like so and so wrote this episode of Community because I recongized their writing style and little easter eggs they put in. Yea, sure dun hung 'emselves. Totally not CIA.
+--- 21925194
+>>21923432
+>Interesting suicide apparatus.
+
+not gonna work though. they cracked down on this method long ago
+--- 21925742
+>>21924806
+Found the source - “The Scary of 61st” - but does this depict a suicide or an autoerotic asphyxiation?
+--- 21925825
+>Immediately prior to his suicide, Gribyedov uploaded his 25,000 word manifesto and an additional 140,000 words--comprising two complete novels and several volumes of original poetry--to a text hosting website that he believed would archive them in perpetuity. However, automatic moderation bots identified objectionable words in the files, restricted them, and ultimately deleted them entirely. According to Gribyedov's best friend and self-appointed literary executor, the site's actions destroyed the young author's life's work permanently, as he was carrying his laptop when he drowned himself. The size, file names, and file size of the documents are the only information that can be scraped from his upload, which was located based a link provided in his hand written last letter.
+--- 21925837
+>>21925825
+kek
+--- 21925850
+>>21922507 (OP)
+just ask chatgpt to write it for you
+--- 21925874
+>>21923432
+The philosophers end, Serene. It would be nice to walk into the woods and meditate until you simply expire.
+--- 21925890
+>>21925825
+That's what he gets for saying the n word
+--- 21926015
+>>21925825
+Was this his manifesto?

lit/21922641.txt

@@ -59,3 +59,49 @@ Because the coming of civilisation is the ritualisation of murder into socially
 --- 21923047
 >>21922641 (OP)
 real gud
+--- 21924308
+>>21923031
+Also herds of bison being killed off
+--- 21924840
+>>21922852
+The railroad was completed in the 1860s though. The ending is set in I think 1878 or something.
+--- 21925303
+>>21922746
+Only someone who hasn't read many books from this postmodern period would say that.
+--- 21925307
+>>21925303
+Just give your shitty take already so it can get ripped apart
+--- 21925313
+>>21922806
+Nah
+--- 21925320
+>>21925307
+I'm not gonna share with reddit tourists.
+--- 21925339
+>>21922641 (OP)
+Reminds me of Babel. Love pretty much everything about this book.
+--- 21925353
+>>21925307
+Actually I'm feeling kind right now.
+--- 21925514
+>>21922641 (OP)
+meh
+--- 21925570
+reddit-youtube-/tv/-/v/-core 
+a book for noreaders
+a book for nonreaders
+--- 21925635
+>>21922641 (OP)
+Under appreciated for surface level Manifest Destiny bad takes Probably doesn't get the same reception without Apocalypse Now appearing in film.
+--- 21925693
+>>21922641 (OP)
+Consensus is for wimps. Be your own master.
+--- 21926196
+>>21925353
+Love Calvino but this is not a good pick. Invisible cities would make mote sense.
+--- 21926205
+>>21925303
+No other literary movement has produced more overhyped trash than Postmodernism. None of that shit even got popular except for IJ but is still vastly overrated.
+--- 21927197
+>>21922641 (OP)
+We need five maybe seven threads of Blood Meridian at any one time. Now look at the name field.

lit/21922828.txt

@@ -23,3 +23,158 @@ That's $5 more than me, anon. I know the feeling of being underappreciated must
 >>21922828 (OP)
 
 Eco's Foucault Pendulum has a passage on this. In short, no, it is not profitable.
+--- 21923895
+>>21922886
+Andy Weir already had a fanbase with his webcomic
+--- 21923903
+Self publishing is not profitable.
+I think the real move is some kind of content-as-service system where you make all your money on Patreon, but at that point you're really playing the social media metrics game.
+--- 21924687
+>>21922828 (OP)
+>pros
+>you will be able to talk about your writing with others
+>you will have something you may be proud of, look back on, or gain skills from
+>you will learn more about yourself one way or another
+>cons
+>you will most likely spend a lot of time and money
+>you will not get something to put into your CV
+>???
+>profit
+--- 21925567
+>>21922917
+>>21922907
+Absolutely based, boys. I have made a whopping $20 from sales of my book, including to some fine /lit/ezens that picked up a copy. I love you guys. 
+And you should be proud. I hear from one friend after another who wanted to write a book, plans to write a book, will one day write a book. I've already published two in teh series, and the third one should be completed this week. The fact that you have finished a novel is dope. Good for you. 
+Went to nightcafe to find some sweet cover art generated by an AI. Thinking pic related for one of the covers.
+--- 21925573
+>>21923895
+True, and I should add that Alten really only self publishes some of his books and still maintains a good relationship with traditional publishing houses.
+--- 21925618
+>>21922828 (OP)
+>is this a path to be picked up by actual publishers
+Yes
+
+>is it possible to make coin
+Yes, but typically by volume pennydreadful genre pulp.
+--- 21925843
+>>21922840
+Dutch...
+--- 21926113
+>>21922828 (OP)
+I've made nearly $200 in the last three years passive income from a book I grinded out in a month and self published. A couple quotes from it also got put in a video game mod, which was a nice feeling. 
+
+I did the math and basically if you can put out 200 titles and self one copy per month of each, you'll have enough passive income to quite your job and focus on writing full time. So it's definitely feasible. That said, using the same metrics, it takes about three-four years for each book to actually pay minimum wage for your time. Its entirely a matter of time horizon. I'd say if you're in your twenties it's extremely profitable, if you're in your forties or fifties it's probably not worth it.
+--- 21926157
+>>21922828 (OP)
+That depends on your advertising campaign and social media presence.
+
+You are basically going to have to generate buzz as well as advertise on your own to have any chance of potential customers knowing that your book exists. 
+Otherwise you probably won't make shit unless you spam out shit to fuck with the platform. Like those scammers who make hundreds of coloring books a year by stealing content or farming out most of the actual work to fiver. 
+
+But if you actually write real books that take a effort then you can't just spam the system, so you will need to advertise and build a following yourself rather than hope a miracle happens.
+
+The hard part isn't over yet. You still have more work to do.
+--- 21926160
+>>21925567
+people who dream of publishing are generally dreaming of the accomplishment of achieving societal and professional recognition in the form of a real publishing deal, not typing up some manuscript that nobody will ever look at and dumping it on Amazon.
+--- 21926184
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM [Embed]
+--- 21926308
+You can make money if you write to market, but that means you won’t write what you want and the artistry is non-existent. I made $20 in a week off a short romance novel just to test it out. I don’t want to write romance so I took it down, but I bought beer with the money. Sweetest beer I ever drank.
+--- 21926322
+>>21926308
+You can write to market with artistry.
+The challenge of restrictions tend to produce better art than total freedom.
+--- 21926375
+>>21926322
+Give an example
+--- 21926380
+>>21926322
+Writing to market and self-publishing means you are bound by what readers expect. If you over-step those bounds, there are ten self-pubbed authors who are willing to take your place. You engage in artistry at your own disadvantage. And you must write fairly fast to keep up with the market, less time to work on artistry; but who are we kidding here, writing to market is genre pulp writing. That’s not art.
+--- 21926382
+>>21922886
+it pisses me off every time. andy queries dozens and dozens of fucking agents, gets the door slammed in his face. goes it on his own, massive hit. what the fuck are agents doing? they can't tell a good book if one walks up and slaps them in the face. none of us have any hope.
+
+find the jewiest jew in nyc and offer to suck his penis. work your way up from there sucking the penis of other jews he recommends to you. eventually one of those jews will be a literary agent and will publish you.
+--- 21926396
+>>21926375
+Literally anyone who writes using a formula dictated by someone other than themselves.
+
+Hell Shakespeare can be held as a example.
+
+Or all script writers.
+
+Or all people who write for particular publications that have strict "guidelines" on what they will and won't publish.
+--- 21926398
+>>21926308
+i dont get the romance genre. there are literally tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of these fucking ballgown romances. who the fuck can read that many and why are more still being written? no one can read 100,000 books. no one. i dont' care how horny that middle aged woman is. it should be a saturated market, they should have a lifetime's supply of existing romance books already available, but it keeps grinding out more.
+--- 21926405
+>>21926382
+Most agents and publishers are overwhelming female now. They don't have dicks to suck.
+--- 21926412
+>>21926398
+There's a constant demand for a combination of novelty and familiarity.
+So something that follows the tropes but the window dressing is shiny, new, and trendy.
+--- 21926415
+>>21926405
+This is true. I have friends in that world. It's all Jewish girls fresh out of college. You aren't getting anywhere. They aren't as "woke" as you think, it's a bit snootier than that, they have the good sense to look down on the most recent woke shit as pandering. But it's by uplifting really cringe late 90s and early 00s stuff as the "real thing" instead, and usually conceding half the ground to the woke shit in the process anyway.
+
+You aren't getting anywhere with these people. The industry is totally captured and these people are very eager and willing footsoldiers of a culture that does not want anything other than this shit getting through.
+--- 21926500
+>>21926398
+Romance genre is the second biggest segment in the industry, averaging 1.4 billion or so sales a year. And I’d argue that this is likely only sales reported by pro publishers. As book buyers are mostly women these days, this segment will only grow. Women like their comfort foods and romance is the equivalent of that. I make no value judgements about that one way or the other. I only say that it’s a huge market and writing to market in that segment works. But not if you’re going to be an artsy dipshit like that other anon. That’s not why women read it.
+--- 21926741
+>>21926398
+Literally the most successful traditionally published (and currently alive) author in the English language is a romance author (Danielle Steel). If you know how to pander to that market you can make bank.
+--- 21926849
+>>21926500
+What's the first biggest segment?
+YA?
+--- 21926869
+i dont know why do retards insist on profiting from writing 
+its not impossible, just like nailing a thousand nails with a screwdriver isnt technically impossible
+its just fucking retarded
+
+listen retards, this is an already solved question
+we know how being profitable works 
+if you want profits, you are supposed to produce microchips, pharmaceuticals, algorithms, triple bypass heart surgeries or jet engines 
+this is profitable 
+writing isnt 
+every other fucking retard wants to be an (f)artist meanwhile we already have more art than we can consume, its a hyper oversaturated market and profitability is all about the market 
+
+>tl;dr
+get a job, kid
+--- 21926871
+>>21926849
+Children book
+--- 21926890
+>>21926871
+Oh...I could write those.
+
+Just need to work on my visual art a little and figure out what advertising strategy works for that market.
+--- 21926914
+>>21922828 (OP)
+There are only two ways that it can be profitable.
+
+1. If you already have a big audience you can shill your book to like Daniel Greene.
+
+2. If you get extremely lucky like Evan Winter.
+
+If neither of those applies to you, don't bother.
+--- 21926926
+>>21926914
+There is also high volume publishing, aka moden pulp.
+And gaming the algorithm metrics of online book platforms.
+Also just spending a lot of time, effort, and money on advertising while putting out consistent content.
+
+Regardless, a audience isn't just going to fall into your lap, especially as a self publisher. You have to work for it, which is more of a full time job than the actual writing.
+--- 21926973
+>>21926849
+You know what, I may have been wrong, romance may be number one. It really is a big genre.
+--- 21927002
+>>21926973
+But it doesn't have "industrial" buyers like youth books have. Though that only really applies to traditionally published work.
+I don't think the market is as big for self published youth books even if that segment has the most overall sells.
+Youths generally get their books through layers of middle men and gatekeepers. They don't buy books directly from authors themselves.
+
+Libraries, school boards, and parents groups aren't really going to go out of their way to buy hundreds of copies of some independent self published book from some random dude like they will of something put out and pre-approved by a major publishing house.

lit/21922863.txt

@@ -6,3 +6,13 @@ Why did he do this?
 --- 21923100
 >>21922863 (OP)
 Try this
+--- 21923917
+Synchronicity in the air today, I was just looking at picking Dune back up and finishing it but cba when there were no chapter titles/numbers.
+--- 21924754
+>>21923917
+Yeah it's like you're supposed to know that you're on the chapter that starts out with Princess Irulan talking about the contents of the Muad'dib's gooncave.
+--- 21926041
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM [Embed]
+--- 21926053
+>>21922863 (OP)
+Hanke wrote 300 pages. No chapters.

lit/21923046.txt

@@ -73,3 +73,221 @@ Every book make me a little sad at some point.
 --- 21923417
 >>21923395
 The book was written after Munsch and his wife had two stillborn babies. They then adopted children. It must have been cathartic for him to write and it's certainly very moving to read.
+--- 21923473
+>>21923395
+>>21923417
+It rips your guts out.
+--- 21923490
+>>21923046 (OP)
+Flowers for Algernon
+--- 21923498
+I'm currently reading pic related. It's pretty sad
+--- 21923510
+>>21923046 (OP)
+The denial of death
+The conspiracy against the human race
+--- 21923547
+>>21923498
+cover always pisses me off with that fake crying face
+--- 21924295
+>>21923046 (OP)
+The wandering Inn is the saddest Fantasy series I have read.
+--- 21924312
+>>21923046 (OP)
+Unbearable Lightness of Being
+--- 21924369
+>>21923547
+Looks like Jim Carrey with constipation
+--- 21924372
+>>21923046 (OP)
+--- 21924430
+>>21923255
+For sale: booties, never worn
+
+Five word story!
+I win I win!
+--- 21924436
+ecclesiastes
+--- 21924458
+Flower by Algernon
+
+The Book Thief
+--- 21924576
+>>21923051
+The brail my pubic stubble makes out desu
+--- 21924596
+>>21924430
+For sale: baby, dead
+--- 21924625
+>>21923046 (OP)
+
+Some sad short stories I know: 
+
+The perfect day to be a bananafish
+
+White nights
+
+The rocking-horse winner
+
+Almost any of sherwood anderson’s stories
+--- 21924628
+>>21923046 (OP)
+The Road - Mccarthy Cormac.
+No, don't watch the film. Read the book.
+But I think in order to fully appreciate it, you need to be a father. But even if you're not, it's still a brilliant read.
+--- 21924641
+>>21923051
+Chekhov
+--- 21924644
+>>21924628
+my dad can't even think about both book and film without being moved
+--- 21924702
+>>21924596
+So, a horror story. Why would they print that in the paper?
+--- 21924706
+>>21923060
+fpbp
+--- 21924789
+>>21923046 (OP)
+have you read amercan pastoral
+--- 21924933
+>>21923490
+>>21924458
+I have these on my shelf! Time to read them
+
+>>21924295
+>>21924312
+>>21924372
+>>21924625
+>>21924628
+>>21924789
+Thanks, I'll look these up
+
+>>21924436
+this is my favorite from the bible
+--- 21924941
+>>21923510
+>>21923408
+sorry, i missed these. I'll add this to my list too
+
+>>21923414
+true
+--- 21925058
+>>21923547
+He's cumming, anon
+--- 21925069
+>>21923166
+Watched the movie, didn't live up to the hype.
+--- 21925072
+>>21923547
+It’s misery porn. I recommend forgetting it.
+--- 21925075
+>>21924628
+I had a movie night with a buddy once and put on this one, telling him it was a light comedy. He wasn't amused.
+--- 21925098
+>>21923046 (OP)
+american pastoral for me.
+--- 21925112
+Stoner was pretty sad.
+Also objectively one of the best books ever written.
+--- 21925200
+>>21923292
+>The Waves
+This was going to be my suggestion. My favorite book of all time.
+--- 21925246
+>>21925200
+by Virginia Woolf?
+--- 21925331
+>>21925098
+>>21925112
+ordered these, thanks. Looking forward to my sad binge
+--- 21925333
+>>21925112
+This book made me rage. I hate protags that are so passive and just let shit happens without revolting
+--- 21925379
+>>21923068
+>>21923068
+This I cannot reccomend this book enough,
+--- 21925421
+>>21925379
+How is it compared to movie?
+--- 21925447
+Snow Country
+It's a gut punch
+--- 21925491
+>>21923046 (OP)
+http://www.2arms1head.com/
+
+and don't forget the companion piece, his actual forum posts from the adventure turned horror that led to the book 
+https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/seattle-to-argentina-on-a-klr650.136505/
+--- 21925534
+>>21925447
+I'm not sure that I would necessarily call Snow Country sad. The ending took my breath away, but didn't make me cry or feel overly emotional. I was mostly in awe at how masterful Kawabata is at hitting you with the entire weight of the novel with his endings. Still one of my favorite novels, and definitely worth reading
+--- 21925848
+>>21925246
+Correct.
+--- 21925863
+>>21925491
+>nonfiction story
+I'm prepared. I'm prepared. I'm prepared.
+--- 21925920
+>ignores my Houellebecq rec but replies to everything else
+Fuck you
+--- 21925977
+>>21925920
+what's the title? I missed it
+--- 21925983
+>>21925920
+oh, i thought you were recc'ing a physics textbook as a joke
+
+>>21925447
+ty
+--- 21926228
+>>21925421
+probably better
+--- 21926233
+>>21923046 (OP)
+Body and Soul
+--- 21926281
+Picrel when I need catharsis. Opening paragraphs are among my favorite, even in translation, makes me wish I took Russian classes more seriously in college. 
+> Though hundreds of thousands had done their very best to disfigure the small piece of land on which they were crowded together, by paving the ground with stones, scraping away every vestige of vegetation, cutting down the trees, turning away birds and beasts, and filling the air with the smoke of naphtha and coal, still spring was spring, even in the town.
+>The sun shone warm, the air was balmy; everywhere, where it did not get scraped away, the grass revived and sprang up between the paving-stones as well as on the narrow strips of lawn on the boulevards. The birches, the poplars, and the wild cherry unfolded their gummy and fragrant leaves, the limes were expanding their opening buds; crows, sparrows, and pigeons, filled with the joy of spring, were getting their nests ready; the flies were buzzing along the walls, warmed by the sunshine. All were glad, the plants, the birds, the insects, and the children. But men, grown-up men and women, did not leave off cheating and tormenting themselves and each other. It was not this spring morning men thought sacred and worthy of consideration not the beauty of God’s world, given for a joy to all creatures, this beauty which inclines the heart to peace, to harmony, and to love, but only their own devices for enslaving one another.
+--- 21926470
+No longer human
+--- 21926543
+https://www.amazon.com/Remember-Youre-One-Ball-Quentin-Crisp/dp/1907681000
+
+technically out of print as the publisher ended operations sometime last year, but if you want to feel miserable for a couple weeks get yourself a used copy
+--- 21926608
+>>21923355
+this is the right answer. hug you moms, bros, the circle of life doesn't stop.
+--- 21926623
+>>21926608
+Agreed, daily reminder to appreciate your mom. Say some sappy shit that will make her happy. Ask her to tell you about some memories of you being a child. Show her you see her as a person and care about her. Get her a gift for no reason.
+--- 21926689
+>>21923395
+What the fuck is a paperbook? Let me guess, you're some kind of Indian.
+--- 21926874
+>>21923222
+Checked and agreed
+--- 21926879
+>>21923355
+>>21923395
+1000% this fucking kills me as a new dad. guaranteed existential crisis
+--- 21926980
+>>21926233
+>>21926281
+>>21926543
+arigatou
+
+>>21926470
+Osamu Dazai! I ordered this along with the Setting sun recc from earlier
+
+>>21926689
+it was like 3 am when i typed that. The book is made of cardboard, it seems
+
+>>21926879
+agh, sounds like I need to read it
+--- 21927213
+>>21923046 (OP)
+best aot girl

lit/21923195.txt

@@ -102,3 +102,171 @@ Japan is mono-party state, with extreme corporate and goverment collusion and et
 >>21923448
 
 Nah read Kojeve instead, speciffically lectures on the phenomenology of spirit. Fukuyama is a deep state plant and a breaindead libtard. Kojeve was a based Stalinist that created the European Union.
+--- 21923460
+>>21923445
+Nobody said anything about it being comfortable or enjoyable for the average subject of these states. Only that the demographic shift will completely neuter the tiny pockets of anti-liberal resistance that are still around. Like when natives internalized liberal ideology to the point of being the most aggressively anti-chud demographic group, what chance do nativist chuds have, really?
+--- 21923480
+Come on AI. Sweep in and save us from this demiurge trump time line. We ought to keep the thread within the next 30 years instead of talking space travel because it’s still sci-fi in 2023 maybe in 2123.
+--- 21923487
+>>21923438
+they're just biding their time. japan has obvious incentives to kowtow to the US and won't stop until the benefits of doing so are outweighed by the benefits of leaving their subservient position
+similarly, italy has to retain a front of "respectability" for the time being. i wouldn't be surprised if Meloni dropped the facade within the next few years
+--- 21923501
+>>21923195 (OP)
+I said it in previous Fukuyama thread and I will keep saying it again 
+
+I have no interest in listening to Fuckuyama or his defenders if they are not willing to talk about the demographics and decline of white population. White people are the only ones capable of maintaining democracy. once white people become minority in their own countries the non whites will use the system against them and that will be the end of democracy.
+--- 21923503
+>>21923501
+Democracy means the rule of the people. It never had anything to do with keeping the demographic makeup of the demos constant. If immigrants replace whites, then they are the new demos, simple as that.
+--- 21923508
+Lol
+--- 21923515
+>>21923503
+Yeah I'm sure the west will still be liberal when population gets replaced by sub 90 IQ Africans
+--- 21923524
+>>21923515
+Well, we might have to adjust our outdated and racist views about what being liberal means in the future, then.
+--- 21923526
+>>21923515
+if democracy is government of the people, and the people want a less liberal, less democratic society, then isn't it the obligation of a democratic government to give them that? if a man runs in a democratic election for head of state on a platform of abolishing democracy, and he gets fairly elected, then should he not fulfill his campaign promise?
+--- 21923530
+>>21923526
+We call it democracy when people vote for what the elites want, and we call it populism when people vote for what the elites don't like. Know the difference between the two, anon.
+--- 21923544
+>>21923391
+>Deep State
+I wish he didn't dignify this sick conspiracy theory.
+--- 21923549
+>>21923437
+how is it boring?
+you can engineer yourself to have incredible stamine where you cum literal buckets 5 times a day. You can fuck, rape, make love to, any type of slave you want.
+If it ever gets repetitive you erase the previous experiences from your memory.
+
+>id do space travel
+you can do both. 
+
+>you need to uplift the rest of the population
+why? you can create a few slaves who are hyper intelligent yet extremely submissive/fearful of you to solve space-travel problems. If you dont want to do it yourself with your own hyper intelligence. You can even send clones of yourselves to distant galaxies to populate it. 
+
+
+Its the ultimate endgame. I think that person will rename themselves "God". In many ways were already incredibly slavish. Look at how many laws and rules we have. Compare that to 300 years ago where most rules were more elastic and depended on nearby social factors
+
+There families that are part of the elite now we how for centuries been elites.
+--- 21923551
+>>21923524
+So is sharia law a part of liberal democracy then?
+
+>>21923526
+The democratic government isn't obliged to do anything, they are just supposed to give people the illusion of choice. Democracy always ends in a mob rule.
+--- 21923552
+>>21923544
+>"conspiracy theory" 
+They are not even hiding it anymore, look how they openly admitted they "saved" the 2020 election
+--- 21923553
+>>21923526
+>if democracy is government of the people
+its not and its never been that way
+--- 21923559
+I wonder what Fukuyama thinks of Sam Francis and his idea of anarcho-tyranny
+--- 21923775
+>>21923378
+>more niggers good
+retard
+--- 21923848
+>>21923391
+Secretive, spy-ran defense states are the antithesis of democratic society
+--- 21923858
+Read Why Liberalism Failed. Liberal societies impose upon themselves a race to the bottom because liberalism is about expansion of liberty and has no backstop or end goal. Every other form of government historically has been austerity focused because that's how normal humans operate. The post-enlightenment liberals were fart huffers.
+--- 21923964
+>>21923402
+This, nothing ever happens
+--- 21923986
+>>21923195 (OP)
+Do you need help? Have you sought out help if so? People that don't need help don't get it.
+>Im doing everything Im supposed to, why am I not getting extra
+The extra is to help people do what they are supposed to. Not to get you ahead some how. That would be a bad business model, and governments are businesses. Not saying its the way things should or shouldn't be. Im just saying thats how it is.
+>But I should be rewarded for doing what Im supposed to.
+You are in the governments eyes. You are given the privilege to come here and bitch about how you don't receive enough credit for being a good goy. Again, thats just how it is.
+--- 21924012
+>>21923986
+>People that don't need help don't get it.
+Should be "people that don't seek help don't get it" obviously there are ways to game the system to get shit you don't need but in order to game the system you need to show up to play.
+--- 21924021
+>>21923195 (OP)
+The bottom 50% owns just 3% of wealth in the US. The top 1% now owns 15 times the wealth of the bottom half and has more wealth than the 9 percentiles behind them.
+
+The top 0.1% also eclipsed the rest of the 1% recently.
+
+Just think about the combination today if high inflation but falling real wages and record corporate profits (top 500 US companies have profits over a third higher than the 70s-90s). In a real inflationary enviornment companies earn less and profits tank because prices are squeezing them. Here we are just seeing that the temporary supply crunch caused by the pandemic solved oligopoly firms' collective action problem of raising prices (no one wants to be first because consumes switch, but if they all raise prices they win).
+
+Like 85% of US meat is processed by four firms. Average grocery carts have 65% of value feeding into five conglomerates. You're seeing what happens when inequality gets high enough to erode rule of law and the rules of the game get changed such that having more lets you get even more.
+
+There is a reason you will go to jail for not having a tax stamp on a gun an inch too long but some upstate Wall Street heir got probation for four aggravated rapes of minors not that long ago.
+--- 21924028
+>>21923858
+The Hegelian state has purpose.
+--- 21924334
+>>21923549
+At the end of the day I just wouldn't want to deal with people beyond aiding each other in cosmic survival. 
+Beyond that I would just fuck off and live as a superhuman hermit.
+--- 21924424
+>>21923195 (OP)
+Why would you read this guy and care when Spengler is clearly vindicated?
+--- 21924483
+>>21923195 (OP)
+It is. You were just on the wrong side of it.
+--- 21924894
+>>21923534
+All of these threads are the same but this poster brings up a very interesting perspective that few people are talking about. When you observe the youth around the world, it's obvious that they hold completely contradictory views. Liberal democracy and capitalism have made them very progressive, consumerist, narcissistic, entitled, etc but at the same time they vehemently criticize the same system that created them. They complain about artificiality whilst devouring mass media and celebrity news, they cry about capitalism while they willingly pay 100k in college debt for their fancy degrees which they ardently advocate for, they whine about their governments while singing progressive slogans invented by the state and its proxy NGOs and corporations. 
+
+On a surface-level reading, this supports Fukuyama's beliefs. Everything appears chaotic today but really all of this criticism serves to reinforce Liberalism. That's what being "woke" or "conservative" ultimately amounts to nowadays. But what if it's leading to something else? What if the dialectic isn't complete? Right now the youth have these contradictory views of economic socialism and social liberalism -- what if they end up combining? The ideal state for the leftists of today is clearly not something like the USSR or China. It's something closer to Cuba. Imagine Cuba but with Netflix, K-pop, pride parades and fast food. That's what most young people really desire. They absolutely support liberal values and the foundations of liberal rule of law, but they're also scornful against liberal governments for their inequalities and stagnation. Liberalism will probably never fade away in modern history but it might morph and synthesize with other systems. It sounds ridiculous but after observing the youth and the orientation of leftists for many years that's pretty much what they want. And once they become the leaders by 2040, they might advocate for it.
+--- 21924920
+>>21924894
+The same revolutionary impulse as the likes of Robespierre but Democracy has over generations made them helpless.
+--- 21924938
+>>21923455
+If you scrubbed all of the communist symbols and literature, modern China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan all appear more or less the same. The actual method and tendencies don’t differ at all.
+--- 21924944
+>>21924483
+>muh wrong side of history
+Pea brain
+--- 21924962
+>>21924938
+America is the same as all of them too. Literally the only real difference is the ideological curtain. That's the only purpose of Liberalism. America has just as much "totalitarian" power as China but Liberalism conceals it with a gigantic propaganda system revolving around freedom and democracy. Places like China are up-front about it and value authority using a socialist ideology. America lets corporations and individuals have autonomy but it still controls all of them. They're on a leash in America whereas in China they're in cages, but the masters all have the same degree of power at the end of the day. This is what 99% of people don't understand about liberal democracy
+--- 21924966
+he said end of history would be boring, there would be no culture or art, it would be like a museum. Anyways everyone should read kojeve instead of fukuyama, fukuyama just stole his thesis from kojeve
+--- 21924994
+The perfect political system doesn't exist. They are all adaptations to the ethnic composition of the people that inhabit it.
+--- 21925046
+>>21923195 (OP)
+Isn't that what Fukuyuma partially predicted? People demand struggle and conflict, and if a liberal democratic world stifled those two, then they will seek it through self-destruction and rebellion against the government. People forget the last part of the title, "the Last Man", who will emerge dissatisfied with the end of history and will reject it.
+--- 21925066
+>>21923409
+You’re one of the most recognizable posters on /lit/. Too bad people on both sides don’t want to hear that progress and democracy are just rationalizations and moralizations of burgher-bourgeois power grabs. Really funny despite Marx laying out the bourgeois origins of democracy very clearly for the lefties and most right-wingers glossing over historical regicides and splitting off into national-populist and business-conservative factions both of which are revolutionary in historical context. You into stuff like the trifunctional hypothesis or de Jouvenal?
+--- 21925141
+>>21924962
+Sayyid Qutb was right, we need a total rejection of state authority as something fundamentally satanic.
+
+Ironically he gets labeled a "totalitarian" by state media.
+--- 21925700
+Bump
+--- 21925956
+>>21923195 (OP)
+It's not. Fukuyama's assertion was myopic and emblematic of the post cold war optimism that was quickly revealed to be illusory
+--- 21925968
+>>21925046
+I disagree with the idea that there is no longer struggle and conflict in a liberal democratic world. The discontent against the system is a result of tensions that are caused by its inherent contradictions, such as wealth inequality, pursuit of endless growth, and so on. Liberalism is an inadequate solution for those demanding justice, fairness, and dignity, implying that liberalism is not the end solution to creating a human societal system that maximizes these principles.
+--- 21926373
+The end of history is not a peaceful state where all conflicts are resolved but a violent state where all conflicts are simulated.
+--- 21926528
+>>21924966
+fukuyuma is easier to read though
+--- 21926553
+This book represents the hubris of West when USSR collapsed. This was going to be the American Century, instead we are looking at significant irrelevance by 2025.
+--- 21926650
+>>21926553
+well that's just simply a delusional perspective, doomer
+--- 21927384
+>>21926553
+maybe this really is the American Century

lit/21923543.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,355 @@
+-----
+--- 21923543
+I'm trying to put together a list of thinkers of the "right" that any serious intellectual, whether left or right needs to have read, if only to reject their theories. 
+
+> Plato
+> Aristotele
+> Machiavelli
+> Hobbes
+> Alexis de Tocqueville
+> Nietzsche
+> Spengler
+> Schmitt
+> Leo Strauss 
+> James Burnham 
+> Paul Gottfried 
+> Patrick Deneen 
+> Curtis Yarvin 
+(the last three are arguably not on par with the others but I wanted to mention some contemporary ones too) 
+
+I want to do the same for the left but who is there besides Rousseau and Marx?
+--- 21923561
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Reading someone just to reject them is a complete meme. If you formulate a genuinely coherent idea yourself, it will be able to implicitly reject them without ever explicitly doing so. Focus on creating, not criticizing, and you'll gain so much more out of it.
+--- 21923573
+>>21923543 (OP)
+I think quite a few of these selections are anachronistic, especially since thinkers like Plato are heavily influential on the left as well (collective property, equality of sexes, etc). And there is ambiguity with liberal-conservative philosophers like Hobbes and Tocqueville since they belong to, and influence, both the contemporary left and right. And Nietzsche is radical in a way that neither the left and right can completely claim, but who both can draw significant influence from. I would add: Hegel, Edmund Burke, Hannah Arendt, Michael Oakeshotte, de Jouvenel.
+
+There’s also intersection of right and left like the Cercle Proudhon. National syndicalists… Mussolini was heavily influenced by Marx… 
+
+For the left, I would add — well, this is the difficulty. You should have a separate ‘liberal’ category with people like Hobbes, Smith, Locke, Voltaire, Hume (shit! he’s conservative too!), and then a ‘left’ category for radicals like Rousseau, Marx, Proudhon, Bakunin, Lenin, etc.
+
+Then there’s communitarians like Alasdair Macintyre… who are kind of hard to categorise. A lot of social democrats are highly influenced by conservative thinking, Daniel Bell, Christopher Lasch, etc.
+--- 21923586
+>>21923543 (OP)
+The dichotomy capitalism-anticapitalism, or leftwing-rightwing is inherently atheist, humanistic, hence nihilist (ie meaning nothing substantial), ie purely symbolic, ie purely for public appearance, since it is what the judeo christian bourgeois created in the Parliament of their republics. They put the monarchists on the right & the secular humanists on the left. Left & right refer to where people seat. And Atheism is itself a religion leading to destruction, massacre and anti-tolerance, as their 100 millions of dead thru various atheist revolutions and their two [2] fucking world wars prove.
+
+you see thus that being right wing in a the republic just means monarchist, but now that the humanists killed any political power of the theists, the right is still socialist but dubbed ''right'' & the left is still socialism but dubbed ''left''.
+
+There is no difference between left & right in a democratic republic.The only difference is the fake symbols tied to each group.
+The underlying basis does not change. The underlying basis of the republic is the constitution about the Human rights. These rights are the jewel of the judeo Christians turned atheist, ie the bourgeois class.
+
+Now the subtle point is that the ruling leftist & rightist classes are okay with that. All what matters for the ex-judeo christian bourgeois is that the theists do not take power again. & this happens exactly by giving the illusion to the midwits like you that left & right are separate doctrinally.
+So the plebs can vote one time for the left, then they see that the bourgeois ruling class does XYZ, then the plebs whine that the ruling class is not doing what they promised during the electoral campaign, then the next election the plebs swing to the rightists, which is exactly the same people doing the same thing XYZ and not delivering on their promises.
+
+Thus there is no ''capitalism'' or anticapitalism.
+What there is the Humanist Republic, the dogma of their Human Rights .This is what capitalism is in its entirety.
+
+Second capitalism cannot be destroyed without destroying the republic & its dogmas. This is what leftists hate to hear.
+
+Third capitalism cannot be destroyed because by the dogma of the Human Rights, any doctrine is turned into a bulk of opinions, which are always turned into entertainment by being ridiculed and shat on in their media if the humanists see it as anti Human rights. The doctrines which manage to resist this barrier are then commodified (like t-shirts) & capitalism remains unaltered.
+--- 21923589
+>>21923586
+
+The most important thing for the bourgeois is that the plebs really believes that the ruling class will stop the evil mercantilist bourgeoisie after any election, which is done by making the plebs believe that there is a ''left'' and a ''right''.
+This is why btw all the mottos & slogans in the humanist elections are always about ''''''''''''change'''''''''.
+
+
+This is part of the fantasy of the humanist of the '''''''''perpetual revolution''''. Those people live on their fantasy of doing revolution over & over, fighting the cops in the streets as part of the atheist ritualistic baptism, because killing theist Christians is the only thing they did in their entire history & they only lived for this, but now that christians are impotent, atheists turn inwards and start eating each other alive.
+the atheists have nothing left to do & get bored, so they try to find new topics to ''''''revolutionize'''', & they emrbace NARCISSISM, ie they revolutionize the republic, peak Marxism here, which is made from the revolution on the christian society, & they just end up sayin on FB that their own atheist civil servants like the cops are evil.
+--- 21923736
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Stop trying to fit philosophers on the retard spectrum
+--- 21923782
+>>21923586
+>the Humanist Republic, the dogma of their Human Rights .This is what capitalism is in its entirety.
+"Machinic desire can seem a little inhuman, as it rips up political cultures, deletes traditions, dissolves subjectivities, and hacks through security apparatuses, tracking a soulless tropism to zero control. This is because what appears to humanity as the history of capitalism is an invasion from the future by an artificial intelligent space that must assemble itself entirely from its enemy’s resources. Digitocommodification is the index of a cyberpositively escalating technovirus, of the planetary technocapital singularity: a self-organizing insidious traumatism, virtually guiding the entire biological desiring-complex towards post-carbon replicator usurpation."
+
+"Capitalism is not a totalizable system defined by the commodity form as a specifiable mode of production, determinately negated by proletarian class-consciousness. It is a convergent unrealizable assault upon the social macropod, whose symptom is the collapse of productive mode or form in the direction of ever more incomprehensible experiments in commodification, enveloping, dismantling, and circulating every subjective space. It is always on the move towards a terminal nonspace, melting the earth onto the body without organs, and generating what is ‘not a promised and pre-existing land, but a world created in the process of its tendency, its coming undone, its deterritorialization’. Capital is not an essence but a tendency, the formula of which is decoding, or market-driven immanentization, progressively subordinating social reproduction to techno-commercial replication.
+All transcendent criteria are obfuscations which miss their purported ‘object’."
+
+"Socialism has typically been a nostalgic diatribe against underdeveloped capitalism, finding its eschatological soap-boxes amongst the relics of precapitalist territorialities.
+Markets are part of the infrastructure – its immanent intelligence – and thus entirely indissociable from the forces of production. It makes no more sense to try to rescue the economy from capital by demarketization than it does to liberate the proletarian from false consciousness by decortication. In neither case would one be left with anything except a radically dysfunctional wreck, terminally shut-down hardware. Machinic revolution must therefore go in the opposite direction to socialistic regulation; pressing towards ever more uninhibited marketization of the processes that are tearing down the social field, ‘still further’ with ‘the movement of the market, of decoding and deterritorialization’ and ‘one can never go far enough in the direction of deterritorialization: you haven’t seen anything yet’.
+Reaching an escape velocity of self-reinforcing machinic intelligence propagation, the forces of production are going for the revolution on their own."
+--- 21923793
+>2023
+>direction braining
+--- 21923828
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>>21923793
+--- 21923831
+>>21923573
+> Plato are heavily influential on the left as well
+
+I kind of hesitate to put his political philosophy into such reductionistic categories as left / right. And I can see how certain type of leftists one might call technocratic liberals might find appeal in the idea
+of the philosopher king as some sort of enlightened scientist ruler who solves the issues of inequality, climate change, covid etc. without having to put up with the unwashed masses who are prone to right wing demagogues anyways and one can do some selective reading that makes him look like a protofeminist but at the core of Plato's political philosophy was the rejection of the idea of equality which in turn is the core of the left's worldview. His appreciation for "the good", truth and beauty and his belief in the eternity of the soul appear to be at the odds with the moral relativism and materialism of the left. I would even argue he was a proto anti-liberal when you read about his complaints about the hedonistic lifestyle of the people in Syracuse. People will say Liberalism ™ wasn't around in his day and age and that's true but the more I read about history the more I think that there are anthropological constants, liberalism being one of these anthropological constant with different iterations throughout the ages. 
+
+> And there is ambiguity with liberal-conservative philosophers like Hobbes and Tocqueville since they belong to, and influence, both the contemporary left and right
+
+Fair enough. This would open up the discussion how liberalism ought to be placed on the left-right spectrum and whether that spectrum is useful to begin with. 
+
+> And Nietzsche is radical in a way that neither the left and right can completely claim, but who both can draw significant influence from.
+
+I haven't read much of Nietzsche but afaik he was no political philosopher. From what I know he had an aristocratic spirit, rejected democracy, decadence, demanded a return of masculine virtues and tried to find a solution to the problem of nihilism. He also was against petty nationalism and antisemitism but not from a leftist perspective but from an aristocratic perspective. I'm curious what inspirations the lefts draws from him?
+--- 21923837
+T
+--- 21923847
+>>21923793
+>Nooooooo you can't claim these brilliant minds. They were children of their times and you have to put them into historical perspective. Plato only was skeptical of democracy because there weren't many alternatives back in the day, if he lived in our day and age he would totally support the ruling ideology and the ruling regime. What he said has no validity to today's world anyways, except if what he said coincides with what I believe.
+--- 21923854
+>>21923793
+>Current year posting
+Liberal and historicist scum spotted
+--- 21923879
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Where's de Maistre, de Jouvenel, Boudin, and Carlyle?
+>>21923573
+>Arendt
+Why?
+--- 21923901
+>>21923573
+Rousseau to me is a pagan communitarian
+--- 21923912
+>>21923847
+How is the left against democracy? They radically propagate it and demand wars be waged to spread it to other countries. Except I guess if you only consider fringe tankies to be leftists? Also a lot right wing thought is about individuality and self determination and stem from a dissatisfaction of democratic institutions not working as they should, not that they exist in the first place. 
+Direction braining makes 0 sense at this point and leads absolutely nowhere.
+--- 21923920
+>>21923828
+/thread
+
+Anyone who uses such terminology hasn’t read or done any kind of meaningful analysis, opinion can be safely disregarded. OP is a tremendous faggot retard.
+--- 21924009
+>>21923847
+Nietzsche and many others would think you’re a fucking retard for using names and faces as little more than a +1 for your cognitive bias political leanings, instead of engaging with ideas and thoughts in some type of meaningful way.
+--- 21924059
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>who is there besides Rousseau and Marx?
+>Proudhon
+>Bakunin
+>Lenin
+>Stalin
+>Mao
+
+Suppose you could throw Stirner into the mix as an intermediary of Hegel and M&E but I wouldn't count him as essentially leftist.
+
+Later authors of a more culture-critical bent --
+>Frankfurt school (Adorno, Althusser, Habermas, etc.)
+>Sartre
+>Postmoderns (Derrida, Foucault, Deleuze, etc.)
+
+As for contemporaries I only know Zizek and the late Fisher
+--- 21924072
+>>21923586
+It's called the Human Rights. But it truly is the businessman rights.
+--- 21924077
+>>21924009
+>Nietzsche and many others would think
+Appeal to authority fallacy. Stopped reading there.
+--- 21924174
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>left/right
+
+whatever, here's my list
+
+Marx
+Engels
+Lenin
+Trotsky
+Luxemburgo
+Gramsci
+Freire
+Byung Chul Han
+Graeber
+
+Mao sounds really idealist, like tao te ching vs marxism but if you are fine with that dialectical development of marxism of whatever
+for econ, marx trotsky rosa and lenin (graeber for actual pol econ);for politics, lenin freire graeber; for socials, engels lenin gramsci freire byung graeber;
+
+there's lots more. but these expose serious issues in the capitalist edification which are always a nice to know.
+--- 21924180
+>>21924077
+>Appeal to authority fallacy.
+Fallacy fallacy. Stopped reading right there.
+--- 21924198
+>>21923736
+Well they're not just philosophers but political philosophers in particular. I understand the critique that left / right are too simplistic terms to do justice to these brilliant minds but it is impossible not to oversimplify / generalize. Had we to include every little detail we'd hit the word limit and communication would become impossible. So unless you propose a superior alternative to left and right I'm gonna stick to them.
+--- 21924200
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>Marx
+>Serious thinker
+Pick one midwit.
+--- 21924201
+>>21924077
+That's not what appeal to authority means, bruv.
+--- 21924368
+>>21924198
+>a superior alternative to left and right
+--- 21924385
+>>21923543 (OP)
+by modern standards just about everyone who ever lived is right wing.
+--- 21924445
+Alain de Benoist
+--- 21924533
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>left-right
+Take off the wool from your eyes. This is not the actual political dichotomy. Certain systems work or don't work depending on culture, geography and technological level. Any specific philosophy is a psy-op designed on subverting any stability. The real struggle is that people that literally want to destroy the world are in power and those that don't want that need to not be afraid to resist and soeak their minds.
+--- 21924555
+>>21924077
+>which writers are on my side
+>actually they’d think you’re an imbecile 
+>waaaahh logical faculty!!
+--- 21924568
+>>21924200
+The only midwit here is you. Boiling an entire corpus down to “he was wrong”, especially someone as influential as Marx is PEAK dunning Kruger. It is the definition of it, the average dolt thinking he’s smarter than he is and an expert on someone he’s probably never even read or studied.
+--- 21924573
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>greek philosophers
+>wing
+
+You’ve already failed the assignment, the farthest reach one could make is that they were prototype of classical liberals.
+--- 21924606
+Yockey
+--- 21924615
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>Curtis Yarvin
+--- 21924667
+Marx has been disgustingly distorted, simplified, and dogmatized by his followers and foes alike.
+--- 21924686
+>>21924615
+Long time /lit/ troll. 
+Wish we had a good moderator that could spot bait threads like this.
+--- 21924709
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Stop being a directionbrain.
+>>Paul Gottfried
+>>Patrick Deneen
+>>Curtis Yarvin
+lol lol lol literally who
+--- 21924715
+Anyone who holds anti-egalitarian views can be considered right-wing, anyone who ever pointed out differences between groups of people, culture, art, etc. and placed them on a superior-inferior axis can be considered right-wing. You can literally place 99% of people in history as being right wing in some way or another if you want, and even people who call themselves leftist must hold some unconscious beliefs in hierarchies (which can be pointed out if you dig deep enough). Not even Marx was crazy enough to deny biological inequalities, Adorno was completely elitist towards music, many marxists were against homosexuality, some were anti-semitic, and so on.
+--- 21925111
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Heidegger
+--- 21925125
+>>21923543 (OP)
+> Plato
+Plato is literally a commie who wants to abolish all private property and eliminate the family in favor of a rigged cuckold lottery. If your conception of rightism is merely something something strong traditions and autocratic leadership, then your definition is pretty darn stupid, because suddenly every south american banana republic and other failed socialist state is on the right, including North Korea.
+--- 21925139
+Don't forget about Compte Arthur de Gobineau. He was a feudalism utopist.
+--- 21925180
+>>21925125
+exactly. they kinda are though, aren't they?
+
+i'm argentinian and even the "left" govs are just puppets to the IMF and USA/europe
+
+but honestly left/right is useless
+--- 21925207
+>>21924568
+>Marx
+>influental
+no
+--- 21925273
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Been done a million times 
+already knock yourself out
+reinventing the wheel
+http://freenortherner.com/the-bookshelf/
+http://freenortherner.com/dark-enlightenment-reading-list/
+
+And from your start it looks to be a rather niggardly wheel indeed.
+--- 21925292
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>Muh Left Right politics
+>Cuz I gots me Left Right feets
+>And I gots me Left Right hands
+>Therefore all of society muss be Left Right
+>A drr hrr huurrrrr
+Truly, humanity is a cursed species.
+--- 21925312
+People should read and share this more often
+https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/robert-anton-wilson-left-and-right-a-non-euclidean-perspective
+
+But the ill-/lit/-erates here can't be assed so here's a goldfish blub for ye:
+>In the late ’50s, I began to read widely in economic “science” (or speculation) again, a subject that had bored the bejesus out of me since I overthrew the Marxist Machine in my brain ten years earlier. I became fascinated with a number of alternatives — or “excluded middles” — that transcend the hackneyed debate between monopoly Capitalism and totalitarian Socialism. My favorite among these alternatives was, and to some extent still is, the individualist-mutualist anarchism of Proudhon, Josiah Warren, S.P. Andrews, Lysander Spooner and Benjamin Tucker. I do not have a real Faith that this system would work out as well in practice as it sounds in theory, but as theory it still seems to me one of the best ideas I ever encountered.
+
+Still too long lil goldie?
+Here:
+
+Proudhon, 
+Josiah Warren, 
+S.P. Andrews, 
+Lysander Spooner and 
+Benjamin Tucker. 
+
+Blub blub!
+--- 21925336
+A depressing amount of people ITT have this idea stuck in their heads that every person who ever lived was either a Democrat or a Republican. 
+There is no political definition of "the left" or "the right" that is simultaneously broad enough to encompass thinkers from the entire history of the West and specific enough to be informative. You are using the terms outside their historical context.
+--- 21925347
+>>21925312
+That's a lot of words to say you discovered left libertarianism
+--- 21925388
+>>21924715
+>anyone who ever pointed out differences between groups of people, culture, art, etc. and placed them on a superior-inferior axis can be considered right-wing. 
+>therefore Marx and Adorno are right wing
+it's almost like there is something wrong with that definition
+--- 21925393
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>Machiavelli
+was he really a right-winger? obviously everyone from his time period would be seen as right-wing today, but i think his ideas are most useful for establishment types trying to hold onto power.
+--- 21925405
+>>21923912
+>How is the left against democracy?
+They like it when it goes their way, which can also be said for the right. Hitler took power through the democratic process, but ask anyone on the left and they'd endorse any kind of violent resistance. Obviously that's an extreme example, but still.
+--- 21925408
+>>21925393
+He was one of the first real nationalists
+
+The Prince was really written in the hopes that some Borgia would read it and finally unite Italy, humble the papacy, and kick the stinky spics and retarded frogs out 
+
+He basically thinks there will always be an oligarchy or monarchy but that it can at least be effective at keeping order. He's an absolutist thinker similar to Hobbes in that way, but mostly because nobody with a late medieval mindset could be so utopian as to think large scale democratic republics worked. He knew enough from running Florence that states work because energetic elites make them work.
+--- 21925775
+>>21925388
+Didn't say they were right wing, retard, just that they had some degree of RW thoughts and beliefs.
+--- 21926751
+>>21925408
+Nationalism was left-wing
+--- 21926961
+>>21926751
+There's nothing leftwing about going from a nation run by a king to a nation run by another ruling class. A republic run with oligarchic elections or dictatorial decree of laws, all do not cut it. They're not leftwing
+--- 21926981
+>>21923736
+>>21923793
+>>21923828
+--- 21927007
+>>21926961
+>There's nothing leftwing about going from a nation run by a king to a nation run by another ruling class.
+A king outside his domain had 0 power. His vassals judged on their own, groups like guilds had a huge decision-making autonomy, each village had all its local market dealings with imaginary virtual tokens 'thank you' and 'fuck off'.
+
+Suddenly, a nation happens, and where you had previously had a huge chunk of heterogenous groups, everyone suddenly became a citizen. Same rights, same obligations, abstract law with 0 feedback from some far away bureaucrat, everyone is a dispersed individual before Robespierre/Party/Big Brother
+
+Left-wing == more centralization
+--- 21927150
+>>21927007
+>A king outside his domain had 0 power.
+His country is "his domain" and there's been sever differing shades of monarch over the centuries, duh. All of which resemble no divinely chosen leaders. I see no discernible difference. Your hairsplitting does nothing for the case.
+
+>Left-wing == more centralization
+Leftwing=less centralization. Less but most preferably zero centralization
+--- 21927241
+>>21927150
+>His country is "his domain"
+The king's ability to act inside his domain was restricted to unprecedented events, the rest was blocked by custom and oral law.
+
+>Leftwing=less centralization
+Every time some fuckwads started jumping around, shrieking "Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité", what resulted is that some Big Brother came and tightened the grip even harder >>21924368
+--- 21927258
+>>21923543 (OP)
+>I'm trying to put together a list of thinkers of the "right"
+The "right" is an institution of modernity, fundamentally in reaction to either the English revolution's conclusion in the Glorious Revolution (Whig / Tory / [Radical] / [Digger / Chartist]), or to the French Revolution (Mountain, Sans Culottes, Monarchists, Liberals, Conservatives, Reactionaries, etc.).
+
+Who is on the left depends on how you view the left? As the Mountain? Then most radical liberals will be on the left. As the Enrages? As the proletariat? Within left-wing intellectual circles "post-leftism" is a debate about a proletarian critique of leftism.
+
+Most leftisms which emerge from workers movements dispute ("praxis") the ability of intellectuals to be sufficient for the movement, and privilege working class experience in self-liberation as a new ontology with a subject sufficient to itself. Here you'll want to read D&G if you're capable of understanding them, or flay your employer alive while electrocuting him.
+--- 21927352
+>>21923543 (OP)
+Edmund Burke

lit/21923600.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,111 @@
+-----
+--- 21923600
+Why is Zen the most Reddit of all Buddhist denoms?
+>Has a dog Buddha-nature or not?
+>Zhaozhou answered: Wu
+Reply 1:
+>Zhaozhou answered: Woo
+Reply 2:
+>Zhaozhou answered: Moo
+Reply 3:
+>Wu answered: Zhaozhou 
+Reply 4:
+>Zhaozhou Wu: answered
+Reply 5:
+>He is just like Yoda from my Star Wards movies!!1
+--- 21923662
+>>21923600 (OP)
+The Buddha warned about the corruption of dhamma.
+Mahayana is the embodiment of corrupt dhamma.
+--- 21923667
+>>21923600 (OP)
+>If you see the buddha in the street, kill him.
+Genius.
+--- 21923984
+atheists have been pushing the intellectual hype since their meme of enlightenment, hence why according to them all the poor should go to college
+atheists have no critical thinking so they think if they dont understand something, it means it's deep and true, and they just parrot the dumb down version of the thing over and over (think of Kant and Hegel, ie The german question).
+This was all academics before 2012, but in 2012 occupywall street happened and it's the first time that socialists knew they have a better market to tap than the proletariat after the commies killed themselves (and thus leaving socialists standing like morons, since according to socialists, socialism was a bridge from the classical liberal republic by bourgeois to communism).
+The market is the young yuppies educated, not in maths, but in Bullshit studies, full of money, and completely fucking lost in life, doing retarded master like psychology, who will end up in a meaningless bureaucratic job and of course those ppl will be mostly roasties. So it's the perfect recipe
+-women have no critical thinking and spend their lives spreading their legs, 10 years of casual sex, then they end up pregnant, so 10 years of raising some kids, then they get bored playing the helicopter mom and they go back to the cock carousel. This makes women desperate to feel virtuous, and they will always embrace what the ruling & entertaining class is telling them (no matter what kind of society they live in)
+-the intellectuals in the bourgeois republic want to secure their republic, so the poor who vote really need to think there is an alternative to classical liberalism, and that's jut new liberalism, the 2020 variant is wokeism, but the proletariat is just fucked over since the communists themselves were unmasked as just another society full of control freak atheist bureaucrats who have fuck all idea on what to do, and they heavily despise any criticism
+-there is also the jewish trend of pushing for self depreciation on whatever atheists consumed, any angle of the way of life after ww2 will be shitted on
+-socialists mixed that with the infatuation of the atheists for (fake) introspection
+atheists fucking love ''meta'' things, like in their cartoons (atheists love to watch cartoons) so like a cartoon talking directly to the audience knowing he is a cartoon (stuff like rick an morty and so on)
+--- 21924540
+>>21923984
+You live a very shallow cognitive life if a religious tradition from a thousand years ago calls nothing to mind but contemporary politics
+--- 21924551
+>>21923984
+sir this is a wendy's
+--- 21924835
+>>21923600 (OP)
+It's the farthest end of the spread (geographically), including across the sea. It also no doubt had to go through many translations. If Buddhism had got there complete and unchanged that would have been a miracle.
+--- 21924861
+>>21923600 (OP)
+>the most Reddit
+stopped reading there
+
+>>21923984
+glancing at this post and its replies convinced me that it wasn't worth the read
+--- 21924995
+>>21923662
+what about theraveda vs vajrayana? because I very much prefer the /x/ buddhist sect.
+--- 21925002
+>>21924861
+sorry, the Redditest*
+--- 21925006
+>>21923984
+Based and red-pilled.
+--- 21925015
+>>21923984
+a bit rough here and there, a bit jumping the shark at some points, but quite poignant.
+--- 21925161
+>>21924995
+Vajrayana is about gobbledygook and sucking little boys’ tongues.
+Theravada is not original Buddhism either but at least it respects the lore.
+--- 21925278
+>>21925161
+so just read the cannon and avoid creative liberties with my meditation and spiritual journey? lest I turn into weird agnostic yogi prothletizing about the brain space of zen beyond mushrooms when you can achieve that without pharma-assistance?
+--- 21925309
+>>21925278
+It's about getting the highest word count without saying anything in a sentence.
+--- 21925318
+>>21925309
+your letter to your tulpa?
+
+It's difficult for me to maintain aimless small talk because of my autism, but meditation and psychedelics help, but now I just attempt to talk literally about the intangible.
+--- 21925329
+>>21925318
+>>21925309
+that, and recite stories from the suttas to friends when lessons apply to hopefully influence them to do better. I feel like my current mission in life is to make everyone I make contact with a little more at ease with life.
+--- 21925823
+>>21925278
+>lest I turn into weird agnostic yogi
+You do that by finding a legitimate teacher in any tradition of Buddhism, not by reading books
+--- 21925847
+>>21923600 (OP)
+>jhana (to burn away/off: retroduction, apophaticism): dgzogchen/Chan: Zen
+He's saying yes/no. The question is asking "is the sentient thing sentient/soulful?" The question is silly, and so is the answer.
+--- 21926065
+>>21924551
+Nah I think he has a point
+--- 21926105
+>existed hundreds of years before redzit was a thing
+>Has nothing to do with redzit
+>It's mainly the essential parts of Buddhism and its practices with all of the cultural baggage of it's Indian origin removed
+>Which was a process that began the second it left India
+
+You are just being ignorant dude.
+--- 21926613
+>>21925161
+Theravada and zen just fit different personalities better to teach what Buddha taught. Zen better for those with perfectionism or those who dislike goals or overthink.
+--- 21926699
+>>21923984
+Did ChudGPT just drop? What is this unprompted, off topic schizo wall of text lmao?
+--- 21927212
+>>21923600 (OP)
+Does a dog have buddha nature? Yes.
+Does a dog have buddha nature? No.
+Does a dog have buddha nature? Neither yes nor no and yes and no.
+
+Does reading a Koan outside of being appropriately challenged by a master amount to Koan practice?

lit/21923713.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,111 @@
+-----
+--- 21923718
+>>21923713 (OP)
+same as with mostly everything, people have predispositions due to genetics, and that makes it easier or harder to become good at certain things
+--- 21923729
+>>21923713 (OP)
+Intelligence and creativity are basically all genetic as far as I understand. Discipline is also genetic but I think theres a huge environmental factor there too. The same goes for having an interest in literature.
+--- 21923752
+>>21923713 (OP)
+I want to become a writer but everything I write is shit. I can think of stories in my head and plot out the entire story and characters, but once I try to put it to pen it just comes out wrong.
+The way I see it is, you can be born creative, but you still need to learn how to write. Or maybe I'm just coping because I've been writing for years as a hobby and have never actually finished anything I've started.
+--- 21923755
+>>21923752
+I'm actually the same way, I'm told I'm pretty creative but when it comes to writing I'm mediocre at best
+--- 21923757
+>>21923755
+I think it's the difference between writing in theory vs writing in practice. I need to actually learn how to write instead of just trying to wing it every time.
+--- 21923760
+I don’t subscribe to this narrative that suggests writing is like a mystical process that you’re born with or not born with. It’s a skill and a craft, same as anything else. If there’s anything that might be nature and never nurture it’s simply the stroke of fate that would have you reading a lot from a young and having the impulse to write and publish from a fairly young age, which almost all, maybe all, great writers seem to have done. I can think of very few writers and no great writers that didn’t read voraciously and deeply before they were 22 and didn’t publish before they were 30.
+--- 21923764
+>>21923752
+If you never finish and edit a story you can’t actually know if it’s any good as a beginner. You need a bunch of finished and edited stories.
+--- 21923781
+>>21923764
+my problem is I always re-read my early chapters and cringe at how bad my writing is, so I end up scrapping the whole project.
+I've done this so many times, it's not even funny anymore.
+--- 21923786
+>>21923752
+>but once I try to put it to pen it just comes out wrong.
+i mean having good taste is already a propitious disposition
+>Find a very short story by a writer you admire.
+>Read it over and over until you understand everything in it. Then read it over a lot more.
+>Here’s the key part. You must do this. Put it away where you cannot get at it. You will have to find a way to do it that works for you. Mail the story to a friend and ask him to keep it for you, or whatever.
+>I left the story I had studied in my desk on Friday. Having no weekend access to the building in which I worked, I could not get to it until Monday morning.
+>When you cannot see it again, write it yourself. You know who the characters are. You know what happens.
+>You write it. Make it as good as you can.
+>Compare your story to the original, when you have access to the original again.
+>Is your version longer? Shorter? Why?
+>Read both versions out loud. There will be places where you had trouble.
+>Now you can see how the author handled those problems.
+>If you want to learn to write fiction, and are among those rare people willing to work at it, you might want to use the little story you have just finished as one of your models. It’s about the right length.
+--- 21923788
+>>21923781
+so work on your weakness
+--- 21923843
+>>21923786
+good advice
+--- 21924039
+>>21923760
+Hobbes didn’t start writing until he was like 50 and Schopenhauer warned not to read too much. Sherwood Anderson didn't start until his 30’s. And some people are naturally terrible with language. It would be a shame to give up a dream because “If I was going to do it I would have by now.”
+--- 21924054
+>>21923781
+Yeah I like starting things but working through the cringe makes me want to kms even if I think there is some great stuff mixed in there.
+--- 21924060
+>>21924039
+So if I suck now there's a chance to improve enough to become somewhat good at it?
+--- 21924078
+>>21924060
+Yeah I mean you don’t become an adult and now youre just you. Your whole mindset at 20 and 30 are totally different so in a way youll be a whole new writer.
+--- 21924212
+>>21924039
+Checked the time
+--- 21924480
+>>21924039
+There are exceptions like Sherwood Anderson and Don DeLillo, but these people had careers as some sort of writer before they published fiction. I also think philosophers and non-fiction authorship is a bit different than poetry and fiction. 
+
+Obviously, I’m not going to give up. No one should give up, but it does seem to me right now at least that starting early and publishing before thirty are pre-requisites to leave anything really good behind. I can’t think of a single author for whom this is not the case. Houllebecq published some poems when he was nearly but not quite thirty. This is my honest opinion after doing a lot of research.
+--- 21924492
+>>21924039
+>>21924480
+And frankly, there are so many low end publishers and self publishing so easy that when you get to cross thirty like I have, you do start to think “well, if I really wanted to do this, I would have already”. If you’ve published nothing, it’s because you’ve written very little, maybe nothing at all. Do you think someone who writes nothing until their thirtieth year will achieve a career as an author?
+--- 21924538
+>>21924492
+Yeah well maybe its a cope but I think some of it does depend on time and opportunity. I spent the first half of my twenties working and fucking around with a gf, read a lot but almost no writing. The second half has been spent making a family and now I am busy all the fucking time, always worked but now I have no free time and regret that I wasted 5 years dicking around. Still I tell myself I will become free to write once my wife graduates and starts working and the kids are a little older. But who knows if Ill ever change my ways. I drink and smoke all night every night, I should have been a bachelor so I could work part time live in a studio apt in the ghetto and spend all my time on writing. But that didnt happen so idk probably will die a loser either way but still have hope.
+--- 21924554
+>>21923713 (OP)
+All talent is born. Yes you still have to take initiative.
+--- 21924611
+>>21923781
+You're putting too much focus into the quality of your first draft. Write an outline. Figure out the shape of your story. Then write a vomit draft. Don't go back and read what you've written. Just keep moving forward until your first draft is done. Going back and looking at what you've done to determine its quality before you've completed your draft is only going to hurt you. Remember: The idea might be solid, but it's going to need refinement.
+--- 21924629
+>>21924538
+I totally agree that it depends on time and opportunity. In a lot of ways, we’re up against it. Nobody really reads, the culture doesn’t care about literature, schools barely have a literature education and when they do it’s pretty bad. Consider how many people turn to novels as a means of escape. Those people now turn to video games, movies, and television. If you’re a college student, there’s a good chance you spend all of your free time drinking. If you’re a worker or a father, you might not even have free time. Never mind that the sort of work most people do now is really not very conducive to writing. Have you ever had an office job? That shit numbs your brain and fries your nerves. It sucks everything sweet out of life. So yeah, we can’t kick ourselves for not growing up in the culture that Henry James grew up in. But I don’t know if any of this matters in the end. You don’t have to publish in your twenties to write something great. You don’t. It helps, but you don’t have to. But do you have to had picked up classic literature at a young age and given it the time to stew and bring out flavors and really give writing character or even just shape your life decisions so that you can prioritize writing? Maybe yes. I turned thirty pretty recently and I feel quite bad about all this. I never felt insecure about it until I turned thirty. Before that, I always felt like I had time to let it stew.
+--- 21924631
+>>21923713 (OP)
+For some it’s virtuosity in the sense that they have the grit discipline, environnement that makes the process of writing enticing, and stimulating through the memetic competition. This doesn’t guarantee taste or genius, since many bourgeois/well off/well educated still suck and even with discipline they are still average.
+Then some temperemment and personality have a stronger sense of taste but they may not have yet the interest, grit, discipline to make it through being published in a satisfying manner.
+
+To be fair if you ask question and need validation you probably have already failed on both side, and even if you push through you may only be a stupid frog poster at the end(the hysteria of using meme already put you in a precarious situation and speak volume about your mind)
+Good luck
+--- 21924638
+>>21923781
+That’s why editing is a thing. Edit until it’s not crap. It’s really a simple process. You write. If it’s good, you edit little. If it’s crap, you edit a lot. If it’s so fucking bad that to call it crap would be to give it undue praise, then you scrap it and try over but you can’t really know if that’s the case until you’ve written enough to know when what you’ve written is good and when what you’ve written is bad. Your problems are work ethic and fear of failure, and you know it.
+--- 21924648
+>>21924629
+That’s exactly a huge part of what has held me back in the past, be it an excuse or not. As soon as i start to get excited about writing something I just think “literally nobody is going to even read this to give it a chance and even if it got onto a bookshelf it would just collect dust.” We just have to write for ourselves I guess. Fucking hard to spend the free 4 or 5 hours you have of the week to yourself basically laboring at a computer though.
+--- 21924694
+>>21924648
+I think Murakami said he wrote his first novel with sporadically working at it, mostly at night. You might want to consider waking up early, going to bed late, and blocking off chunks of time on weekends. Chances are you have time that you’re not using wisely. You can’t let distractions stop you if it’s something you want to do.
+--- 21924711
+>>21924694
+Youre right for sure
+--- 21926054
+>>21923760
+Composition can be taught, but it will be lipstick on a pig if the person deploying it is a vapid husk.
+
+>>21924039
+>Donna Tart, "There are no great novel(ists) under 40."
+--- 21926456
+>>21926054
+Donna started writing when she was like 16. She might’ve been right, but it’s not about peaking early. It’s about starting early.

lit/21923762.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,198 @@
+-----
+--- 21923762
+Where do I find a list of "the canon"?
+--- 21923773
+https://www.openculture.com/2014/01/harold-bloom-creates-a-massive-list-of-works-in-the-western-canon.html
+
+It’s not comprehensive
+--- 21923787
+>>21923762 (OP)
+hawt
+--- 21923817
+>>21923773
+nice list, how many years to go through the list?
+>>21923762 (OP)
+she's a whore with very bad taste, those shorts sit like shit on her
+--- 21923846
+>>21923817
+Comment only a homosexual would make. ^
+--- 21923862
+>>21923846
+Homosexuals love reducing female sexuality to its most overt and unnuanced displays as they have no ante in the act of conquest and it runs culturally concurrent with their general debauched tone. This is why drag queens love to corrupt images of housewives and nurses and similar archetypes.
+--- 21923866
+>>21923773
+>no Pynchon
+post the full list
+http://sonic.net/~rteeter/grtbloom.html
+--- 21923873
+>>21923817
+>nice list, how many years to go through the list?
+There are 1500 entries, so do the math.
+Some of those are poetry books or plays, so they could be read quickly, but many are proper novels, so if we assume a week for each work, that's 29 years.
+--- 21923904
+>>21923873
+sounds like i'll be dead before finishing :<
+--- 21923906
+>>21923904
+And that's a good thing.
+--- 21924013
+>>21923762 (OP)
+those shorts must smell terribly by the end of the day
+--- 21924179
+>>21923762 (OP)
+google
+--- 21924208
+>>21923846
+you're a tasteless prole
+--- 21924290
+>>21923866
+It's inaccessible for me
+--- 21924461
+>>21924013
+imagine the smell
+--- 21924497
+>>21923873
+When I turned 18, my father suggested I undertake to read (and comprehend, within reason) the entire western canon. I began that journey 17 years ago and am roughly 62% complete. 
+I have never smelled, never mind touched, a female human.
+--- 21924505
+>>21924497
+How smart are you?
+--- 21924506
+>>21924497
+I'm the same age. My father is a moron. I've read maybe 1% of the canon. I've had sex with 2 women.
+--- 21924516
+>>21924497
+What's your goodreads brah?
+--- 21924526
+>>21923762 (OP)
+This isn’t for male gaze btw, it’s empowered girlboss energy. Stop staring, incel.
+--- 21924537
+>>21923762 (OP)
+I remember looking at a teens ass when she's dressed like that because I wanted to. She tried to pull her shorts down and I laughed.
+--- 21924539
+>>21924537
+Based malicious compliance
+--- 21924786
+>>21924537
+>>21924539
+And I’m sure that if she was smart, she learned a very important lesson that day. If she was dumb on the other hand, then she’ll continue to be eye candy for everyone in a 5 meter radius. Win-win, really.
+--- 21924797
+>>21924497
+Gods, I wish I were you.
+--- 21924843
+>>21924526
+based
+--- 21924851
+>>21923873
+Half of that is in what Bloom calls the Chaotic Age. Basically the 20th century. If you only read the most important books from that period it's like 800 books.
+--- 21924893
+>>21924497
+Well duh. Once you finish it women are super attracted to you and form around you like bees to honey, magnets to metal, and money to power
+--- 21924910
+>>21923762 (OP)
+sexo
+--- 21924925
+>>21923762 (OP)
+She has male tits with pointy nipples
+--- 21924937
+>>21924925
+She’s a woman though and a fit-fuck it would be.
+Pounding away at a soft and shapely breeder, cushion for the pushin’, is sublime, but a fit woman will have the stamina for some cowgirl and reverse-cowgirl action
+--- 21925134
+>>21923773
+
+Real western canon is:
+
+> Greeks
+> Bible
+> Augustine/Church fathers
+> Kant (?)
+> Hegel (?)
+
+Everything else is not worth reading
+--- 21925277
+>>21925134
+t. has read none of those
+--- 21925310
+>>21923866
+Fuck you, I was literally just about to post this.
+--- 21925556
+>>21923762 (OP)
+Whats the point of wearing underwear underneath that?
+--- 21925574
+>>21925556
+doesn’t want strangers to catch a whiff of her holes
+--- 21925580
+Being a woman must be horrible.
+--- 21925601
+>>21923846
+>shorts riding up deep into her ass crack
+>not bad taste
+She's attractive, but those shorts definitely do look very dumb. It also looks like it'd be very uncomfortable
+--- 21925616
+>>21925580
+It’s a god mode cheat code in western world nowadays, but nearly all of them are miserable anyway lmao. I wouldn’t want a fembrain under any circumstances - even though free will is debate, women most certainly don’t have any. They’re just baby incubators driven by uterus and social consensus.
+--- 21925622
+>>21923762 (OP)
+In how to read a book by mortimer and adler?
+--- 21925630
+>>21924013
+--- 21925634
+>>21923762 (OP)
+This woman is old. She has already hit the wall. Her ass is not big. It is flat as shit and level with her back. No booty whatsoever. Her legs are too big for that flat ass. Her breasts are non-existent. Really, you can do much better. Don't ever post her again. And yeah, I've touched a female human. I put my cock into one all the time.
+--- 21925644
+>>21925634
+Yeah look at that grillhead she's sporting, she's gonna look like her mom in 2 more years
+--- 21925672
+>>21923762 (OP)
+If you're too stupid to even find the list...
+--- 21925696
+>>21925630
+lel
+--- 21926141
+>>21923762 (OP)
+in high school my gf had that kind of body. face was a 6 but body was a 10. ridiculous. regarding the canon check out Clifton Fadiman's "The New Lifetime Reading Plan"
+--- 21926182
+>>21925634
+>>21925644
+Pedophiles spotted
+--- 21926208
+https://archive.org/details/encyclopaediabritannicagreatbooksofthewesternworld/
+--- 21926218
+>>21926182
+tick tock roastie, time's running out
+your twenties are fading, your hole is blown out
+your baby fat's dwindling, your laugh lines are deep
+the glow of youth yielding to time's steady creep
+your sister got married (perhaps 'twas your friend)
+what do YOU have to show, at another week's end?
+another liaison? another affair?
+now your sister has children! and you've gotten.. where?
+now your cousins are married (tho' they're younger than you!)
+now the family gossip declares you the shrew
+the "cool wine aunt," you recall from the memes,
+whose eggs are as shrivelled and dead as her dreams..
+the charity case, the butt of the joke,
+your features weighed down by time's heavy yoke
+is this what you wanted? was it worth it, my friend?
+how valid you felt, from "dates" without end?
+now pick up your nephew, now play with your niece
+do you sense what you're missing? why you feel no peace?
+now back to the present. can you hear the clock tick?
+does it sound a bit louder? do you still want strange dick?
+the decision is yours, roastie: heaven or hell?
+every day is a choice, so be sure to choose well
+--- 21926474
+>>21923762 (OP)
+I really need to go to Tijuana again. Girls like this but younger for pennies on the dollar
+--- 21927326
+>>21925556
+pussies leak and would stain her shorts, specially if she gets aroused, panties help to soak it
+--- 21927336
+>>21923762 (OP)
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Books_of_the_Western_World
+--- 21927388
+>>21923762 (OP)
+>wide shoulders
+>narrow hips
+uhhhh

lit/21923876.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,142 @@
+-----
+--- 21923876
+How much do you think reading books about how to write and watching lectures/videos on how to write affect someone's ability to write a good book? What are some other factors that you think could help someone write a good book?
+--- 21923883
+Outside of autodidactic books on grammar and syntax and maybe one or two of the great modern introductions to writing fiction, I think its entirely a feel-good exercise in procrastination. Writing is a skill you develop with practice. Reading is a separate skill; there's overlap, but you still have to flex both muscles.
+--- 21923911
+>>21923876 (OP)
+Nice to reflect on what other authors think of it when writing is already a routine for you and you've written quite a bit, published or not. In terms of "learning", it's like studying a manual on how to swim.
+--- 21923916
+>>21923911
+>>21923883
+So what I'm gathering from these replies is that you'll get better at writing with time and it's something that will get better the more you do it. OK, I can agree with that, but do you think being well-read would benefit someone because it can help them understand what a book worthy of publishing is written like or do you think that there's no such thing as that and that everybody has their own style?
+--- 21923957
+>>21923876 (OP)
+Reading (or watching videos) about how to write is an exercise with diminishing returns. If you are completely new to the craft, then maybe 20 hours spent (or 2-3 books on fiction writing) is enough to get you to the point where everything else feels like a rehashing of points you already know. Your time is much better spent reading actual stories, alone with your own thoughts, and, of course, writing, because while reading widely and often won't guarantee that you'll become a good writer, every good author is well-read. 
+I'm not talking about well-read by /lit/ meme standards, but you should have at least a passing familiarity with the classical myths of humanity and the best literature that is similar to what you want to write. 
+You will feel your writing improving as you read more if and only if you're also putting the words down on the page and reflecting on them.
+Gay quote but it's pretty much the truth.
+--- 21923982
+>>21923957
+>Reading (or watching videos) about how to write is an exercise with diminishing returns.
+So for example, I'm currently working my way through Brandon Sanderchuds lectures that he uploaded to YouTube, do you think these will do any good for me or someone else or do you think they're ultimately a waste of time? They must have some value considering they're from a best-selling millionaire author, right?
+--- 21924439
+How did King do it? I tried reading Salem's Lot and was unimpressed after like 40 pages. Why is he so popular? Is it the ease of accessibility? Is it the characters? The atmosphere? What draws people to his work? I feel like half his characters are just moody writers.
+--- 21924474
+>>21924439
+>filtered by Stephen Kang
+Seriously, he's actually a very good writer. His worlds are very alive.
+--- 21924490
+>>21924474
+I liked Running Man, but his horror hasn't grasped me at all. What would you recommend? Should I keep reading Salem's Lot?
+--- 21924520
+>>21924490
+11/22/63
+Misery
+The Stand 
+Yeah I think Salem's Lot is pretty good too.
+--- 21924599
+>>21924520
+I hated The Stand but Misery remains one of my favorites to this day. I think he's just good at portraying all kinds of horror - psychological/internal (Misery), societal (It), supernatural (the Shining). Misery is probably the only book that has a writer as an MC and is actually good (I can't think of any others off the top of my head right now). I haven't read Pet Sematary yet but I heard it's one of his best.
+--- 21924795
+>>21924520
+i'd also mention the Shining.
+--- 21925779
+>>21923982
+Go ahead and finish the Sanderson videos. It does a good job of organizing your ideas into writing. But yeah keep reading for sure, that will improve your writing most of all.
+--- 21925818
+>>21924490
+My favourite is Desperation, just for pure spookiness. Good characters (minus his annoying self-insert) and good mix of plausible fears with uncanny supernatural shit. And it's pretty pacey by his standards, not too much 'here have three million years' worth of the characters sitting around proving how salt of the earth they are before anything happens'
+--- 21925838
+>>21923876 (OP)
+>story telling & structure
+>prosody
+People that don't think clearly to begin with need the latter but seek out the former (because that's their lane, typically). 
+
+>>21923876 (OP)
+>entirely a feel-good exercise in procrastination
+This.
+
+>Writing is a skill you develop with practice
+Spontaneous thought generation is one thing, paring it down to its final form is another. The weight of effort is in the editing process, being a butcher, knowing the cuts-- a text must be dressed like carcass in an abattoir. Reading is how you evaluate the cuts.
+
+
+>>21924474
+He's a story teller. His writing is just a means to that end, and the early interviews he concedes that his style is no model to look to.
+--- 21925860
+>>21923916
+It seems like you know the answer to your own question, anon
+--- 21925861
+>>21923883
+Agreed, it’s an individual activity. Words themselves have lost value in today’s world where ideas are king. Write what you believe.
+--- 21925864
+>>21923883
+>Outside of autodidactic books on grammar and syntax and maybe one or two of the great modern introductions to writing fiction
+remember, be specific.
+--- 21925875
+>>21923876 (OP)
+They are better if you have written something and can't figure out what you did wrong.
+--- 21925895
+>>21923883
+I dunno anon, I think if some guy only ever read fanfiction written by teenagers there wouldn't be much hope of his writing turning out any better. Reading good literature and genre fiction slop at the same time is something that is pretty useful because you can immediately figure out and understand what's shit writing and what's not, so you won't make the same mistakes as the bad writers.
+--- 21925900
+It doesn’t help at all. I wasted years on this shit.
+--- 21926363
+>>21923876 (OP)
+You must study the craft in order to know how to write. Passive reading is for the lazy, destined to fail. King is absolutely lying when he suggests reading passively is the way to do it, because that old retard went to college and actually studied English back when they used to teach it semi-well. He studied the horror genre and wrote Danae Macabre which is a deep dive into it. He knows the horror genre, so maybe he can now read passively, as he is an expert in his field (even though he sucks). But On Writing is just Kings idea of what writing advice will be popular enough to include in a book that will also sell millions of copies. Ever the genre writer, he considers his audience first and does not write for writings sake. 
+Study craft, study literary works objectively or read studies and essays, and do not listen to what writers who barely know about the craft themselves tell you. I also have a small theory that they leave off the study part when they give advice because they worked hard and studied and so just giving you the answers and making you competitive in their fields is contrary to their interests, but that is the paranoia in me taking.
+--- 21926600
+>>21923982
+Huge waste of time. Sanderson sucks and he has absolutely zero artistic ability. Dude is the goyslop of modern genrefic.
+--- 21926612
+>>21926363
+THIS
+
+I am an autist when it comes to scheduling my day, because any creative ought to live by rigorous routine. I wake up at 9am. Go to the same cafe (I don't like blending work and home), write until 1pm. Then take a short break until 1:30. Research. Right now, I'm reading about child psychology (Alice Miller). Then I stop at around 4. Go to work at 5 until 12am. Then read fiction until 2am. Bed. 
+
+You need to study. And, in my opinion, that includes nonfiction i.e. philosophy, psychology, religion, esotericism etc. All that is so valuable for thematic construction and character depth.
+--- 21926763
+>>21926612
+>You need to study. And, in my opinion, that includes nonfiction i.e. philosophy, psychology, religion, esotericism etc. All that is so valuable for thematic construction and character depth.
+Yes
+>any creative ought to live by rigorous routine
+No
+--- 21926764
+>>21923876 (OP)
+Nah, I prefer to ask /lit/ for writing advice, not published authors.
+--- 21926799
+>>21926612
+Yes, we are of the same mind. I have a harder time with rigorous schedules but I keep a steady drip line of non-fiction, literary novels, genre novels, and writing text books as well as criticism. And I write every day. Hard work is what separates the successful from the unsuccessful, aside from luck and talent.
+--- 21926814
+>>21923876 (OP)
+I'm going to share a secret with you. Pic related is the only craft book you need. It's old, but that's part of what makes it so good. It's short, sweet, and condenses all the information that you'll get in modern craft books without any bullshit or filler. Not only does it break down all the tricks of language for you in an entertaining manner with lots of examples, but it provides valuable commentary on writers like Homer, Euripides, and Aristotle. After reading this (with careful notes) if you absolutely need something modern, go with John Gardner's Art of Fiction. Also, pick up an old dictionary like Webster's Unabridged Second Edition, something that contains etymology. Any more than that is a total waste of time that you could instead be using to write.
+--- 21926831
+>>21926814
+Any particular translation worth reading over another?
+--- 21926865
+>>21926763
+No. You need a routine. David Lynch says it best, that if you have a strict routine, you focus more on creative endeavors, because you're not worried about what to eat etc. Minmax that shit. Basic life advice. 
+
+>>21926799
+Absolutely. Most people put too many commitments onto themselves. I work at a high end restaurant as a sous chef, but I work only the nights, so it leaves my days open to work/study. You just need consistency, and luckily I live in a country that doesn't force me to pay for a car, healthcare and all that shit, so I can save half my paychecks every month, after rent and food and shit.
+--- 21926868
+>>21926831
+The public domain version worked fine for me. Some familiarity with classical Greek lit is required to make full use of the work, as well as some knowledge of ancient history since he references other periods frequently. This was useful to compare my notes with and to get a good summary afterwards:
+https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsMOQb_g1aRBvuMxt9LSMwmljBBT0f7Pa
+--- 21927160
+>>21924439
+Harold Bloom:
+>The decision to give the National Book Foundation’s annual award for “distinguished contribution” to Stephen King is extraordinary, another low in the shocking process of dumbing down our cultural life. I’ve described King in the past as a writer of penny dreadfuls, but perhaps even that is too kind. He shares nothing with Edgar Allan Poe. What he is is an immensely inadequate writer, on a sentence-by-sentence, paragraph-by-paragraph, book-by-book basis.
+Lol. Was there some personal beef? Or was King just too popular for Bloom to not hate him
+https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2003-sep-19-oe-bloom19-story.html
+--- 21927169
+>>21927160
+>Was there some personal beef?
+No, but there was with David Foster Wallace. Bloom was a fraud btw who only read about 25% of the books he put in his Western Canon. He also attempted to write a novel that plagiarized A Voyage of Arcturus and it received luke warm reviews at best.
+--- 21927191
+>>21927169
+>who only read about 25% of the books he put in his Western Canon
+source?
+--- 21927203
+>>21924490
+If you wanna read some King but don't wanna read his horror shit (which is like 90% of his catalogue) then you should read Billy Summers, I loved it and it's gotten pretty good reviews from everyone else as well. It's about a hitman if that's your thing.

lit/21923907.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,127 @@
+-----
+--- 21923907
+http://www.scielo.org.co/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1657-89532010000100008
+>The superman is not necessarily a perfect physical specimen, a strong, healthy, athletic man. A sublime man could have the highest value even if he is terribly delicate and fragile, because an abundance of very difficult and rare things has been bred and preserved together through many generations (The Gay Science, 998).
+
+https://eternalisedofficial.com/2021/08/14/nietzsche-the-ubermensch-overman/
+>The evolution Nietzsche has in mind is philosophical rather than physical
+
+https://www.webology.org/data-cms/articles/20220713123206pmwebology%2019%20(3)%20-%20219.pdf
+>His strength is inner strength not physical. He does not have the physical strength as such. How can he then fit into Nietzsche’s Ubermensch? The Ubermensch is not a realized ideal. It is actually a goal towards which one moves. For Nietzsche, health was not the sickness being absent but instead health was the skill to overcome illness.
+
+This is wrong on every level. "Testosterone is not needed to be an Ubermensch" is completely illogical considering that everywhere else in Nietzsche's works he wants men to be physically healthy and virile and says that a separation of mind from body is asceticism and thus evil, wicked and no good. A twink is still a weak and a twink even if he builds muscle and lifts and eats healthy things, he's not strong in any sense. No, he can not trick himself into thinking he can be "top" by spiritually believing in himself. This misinterpretation is how we got trannies. The only thing that could possibly be up to no good here is
+>Kaufmann
+Oh. When can we get an unpozzed Nietzsche pls?
+--- 21923937
+>>21923907 (OP)
+What the fuck are you ranting about. German is not that different from English, if you want to check whether he has been "pozzed" just check the original passages.
+--- 21923940
+The ubermensch is the fat retard who squats a lot in the gym
+--- 21923974
+Wait, is that what Nietzsche's philosophy is truly about?
+>I'm a twink unlike Caesar. If I just tell myself I am strong and believe in myself, I will be like Caesar even though I am still a twink, and even better, since I have become like Caesar without needing to be the opposite of a twink, I will surpass Caesar and become much more nicer, benevolent, and less ruthless than him!
+I thought it was about overcoming 'le nihilism' and a confusing battle against Christianity, thanks for clearing everything up. I don't care whether the text was pozzed or not, it's just a cope from Christians who deludingly think they can separate their dependence from their physically brutal bullies. Nietzsche would approve of LGBT if it means less jocks beating his ass. HahahahahHAHAHAHAHA
+--- 21923983
+>>21923974
+>Nietzsche would approve of LGBT
+He did
+
+>The erotic relation of men to youths was the necessary and sole preparation, to a degree unattainable to our comprehension, of all manly education (pretty much as for a long time all higher education of women was only attainable through love and marriage). All idealism of the strength of the Greek nature threw itself into that relation, and it is probable that never since have young men been treated so attentively, so lovingly so entirely with a view to their welfare (virtus) as in the fifth and sixth centuries B.C.— according to the beautiful saying of Holderlin: “denn liebend giebt der Sterbliche vom Besten”. The higher the light in which this relation was regarded, the lower sank intercourse with women.
+Friedrich Nietzsche, Human All Too Human 259
+
+>Plato goes further. He says with an innocence possible only for a Greek, not a "Christian," that there would be no Platonic philosophy at all if there were not such beautiful youths in Athens: it is only their sight that transposes the philosopher's soul into an erotic trance, leaving it no peace until it lowers the seed of all exalted things into such beautiful soil
+Friedrich Nietzsche, Twilight of the Idols chapter 8, 23
+
+>What does our chatter about the Greeks amount to! What do we understand of their art, the soul of which is passion for naked male beauty!
+—Friedrich Nietzsche, Daybreak, Aphorism 170
+--- 21924033
+>>21923983
+None of those forms of homosexuality that faggot philosopher was talking about even involve actual hardcore penetration anyway. The faggot is a wimp who thinks there is an opportunity to escape.
+
+The harsh reality is that the homosexuality we accept today is that based on domination and not "muh spiritual aristocratic adventure no girls allowed ecks dee passion muh male beauty boys passing on to the next generation ecks dee."
+
+If Nietzsche was surrounded by a bunch of 6'5 homosexual jocks with giant med bvll tier muscles trying to ape him he would just give in, show his effeminacy, and spread out his boypussy. The only saving grace for him is that a gay jock is slightly nicer than a straight one. Literally his only grace.
+--- 21924544
+>>21923907 (OP)
+Nietzsche is a philosopher philologist, not a fitness instructor. To be physically fit isn’t the primary feature of the Übermensch. Being fit doesn’t disqualify anymore than being unfit. 
+Sure you envision a strong virile male with huge dick ordering you around, but that’s just your weakness, little fella. Shut up now.
+--- 21924572
+Mmmm daddy ubermensh is so big and strong you can find him in the gym 6 days a week <3
+--- 21924609
+>>21923974
+Reading the OP is hard but assuming it says what I want it to is easy
+--- 21924807
+>>21923907 (OP)
+because you keep spreading it, evidently.
+--- 21924951
+>>21924807
+kek
+--- 21925332
+>>21924544
+Health and the condition of ones body is inseparable from philosophy, and Nietzsche is extremely clear about this. First of all one of again the most primary idea he repeats over and over is that of intellectual movements as psychological and more importantly biological phenomena. He is extremely clear on this regarding the association between egalitarian mores and the biological constitution of modern populations. Again, he makes the exact same argument regarding the early Christian period, it being essential an urban poor moment, and a victory of moral philosophy over the Roman aesthetic and aristocratic. Furthermore as regards the individual, Nietzsche is very clear as to the essential qualities necessary for a sovereign or free individual, one of the most important being sincerity or truthfulness. Not the superficial sort of truthfulness, as in 'not lying,' but that one ones word and actions carrying real weight. The preconditions for this are very simply and directly strength and virtue of body. Very simply, people who cannot defend their ideas with their own lives are inevitably subject to the whims and interests of groups of people. They do not have any sort of real intellectual freedom, and cannot be truthful. You can find this in the Geneaology of Morals, which you obviously haven't read. This and a million other points I could make, the fact is Nietzsche makes no such distinction.
+--- 21925344
+>>21925332
+It’s also extremely clear he suffered stomach problems his whole life and his mind collapsed.
+Stephen Hawking might not be an Übermensch, but neither is a young Schwarzenegger
+--- 21925378
+>>21925344
+He also trained his body strenuously for years precisely to overcome his limitations. He was in fact incredibly healthy during his productive period, and to say his health failed is some indictment against this is absurd. It's no more sensible than to say because someone died, obviously their training was a waste of time.
+
+"In order to understand this type, you must first be quite clear concerning its fundamental physiological condition: this condition is what I call great healthiness. In regard to this idea I cannot make my meaning more plain or more personal than I have done already in one of the last aphorisms (No. 382) of the fifth book of the Gaya Scienza: "We new, nameless, and unfathomable creatures," so reads the passage, "we firstlings of a future still unproved—we who have a new end in view also require new means to that end, that is to say, a new healthiness, a stronger, keener, tougher, bolder, and merrier healthiness than any that has existed heretofore. He who longs to feel in his own soul the whole range of values and aims that have prevailed on earth until his day, and to sail round all the coasts of this ideal 'Mediterranean Sea'; who, from the adventures of his own inmost experience, would fain know how it feels to be a conqueror and discoverer of the ideal;—as also how it is with the artist, the saint, the legislator, the sage, the scholar, the man of piety and the godlike anchorite of yore;—such a man requires one thing above all for his purpose, and that is, great healthiness "
+
+I swear none of you niggers have even read Nietzsche.
+--- 21925391
+>>21925378
+I have not said that on-purpose yogurt armed vegan pacifists can be Übermensch either.
+--- 21925430
+>>21925391
+It's incredible that I can literally recite in direct words, the exact precise thing he said, even going so far as to say 'I cannot make my meaning more plain,' and you can still ignore it. Incredible. Please stop posting and go read.
+>such a man requires one thing above all for his purpose, and that is, great healthiness 
+>such a man requires one thing above all for his purpose, and that is, great healthiness 
+>such a man requires one thing above all for his purpose, and that is, great healthiness
+--- 21925987
+>>21925378
+>>21925430
+OK, riddle me this, you fucking idiot:
+Without any context, will this giant 6'8 muscle hunk be able to become an ubermensch since he is physically enlightened?
+--- 21926101
+>>21923907 (OP)
+I really don't care. Reading Nietzsche still helps me become my own ubermensch by getting estrogen off amazon and going to punk shows.
+--- 21926108
+>>21925430
+Final word. I have no gurus and ultimately diverge with Nietzsche on whatever I please. 
+You go along and follow him. I don’t care.
+--- 21926138
+its right when it comes to the fact that we have no historical repressentation of what would the ubermensch would look like
+--- 21926508
+>>21923907 (OP)
+How did you fuck up this post so bad. Started off good and then you just start ranting about twinks at the end
+--- 21926525
+>>21925987
+Point invalid since only 0.00001% look like that and all of them are gay
+
+>>21926508
+My point is that weakling thin boned shitheads trying to become ubermensch through "le intellectual strength" is exactly how we got the uprising of Jews and trannies.
+--- 21926798
+many who admire Nietzsche want to interpret him by their personal ideology. This tendency comes, as I said, from a place of admiration, so it is hard for me to hate such people
+that being said the correct interpretation aligns more accurately with MY ideology, but I wont tell you which one that is...
+--- 21926805
+>>21926798
+>but I wont tell you which one that is...
+It's obvious that it's homosexuality
+--- 21926820
+human beings are tribal creatures. whether you're 5'8 or 6'8 that doesn't say anything about for an instance how great your immune function is
+great vitality and virility are good things obviously but people misattribute them to fantastical beauty standards
+historically human beings were all manlets with tard strength and there are plenty of advantages to not being a fucking """"ubermensch"""" like slower metabolism, greater gymnastic ability, less prone to joint problems, longer lifespan and most importantly lower required caloric intake
+
+ubermensch is just a figurative idea
+--- 21926825
+>>21923983
+none of that is gay
+you cannot consider an aesthetic appreciation of men to be erotic. Any artist knows that the aesthetic gaze & the erotic gaze are mutually exclusive. One experiences this directly if they practice figure drawing 
+The very notion of orientation is a recent & modern cultural mental illness that is too pernicious for most people to even notice, but in the greeks and nietzsche you can see sane thinking about such subjects, & in seeing it's absence you can might recognize it for once... 
+Or let me put it this way. You can pet your dog without being a zoophile right? If you lived in a society where zoophilia was a recognized orientation which people could be born as & which accompanied a host of social behaviors, would you not be able to convince yourself that you were a natural zoophile as opposed to having a fetish? Bear in mind the human brain is so delirious people can convince themselves their own penis is missing when it physically isn't
+It's clear any man can embrace & appreciate a young male youth. You are probably rushing to blurt out gaycusations as you read this because we live in a society that has developed extraordinarily stifling and rigid psychiatric standards and distinctions for orientation that have repressed and confined peoples thoughts and behavior more severely than any form of sex-denying stodginess has ever managed
+--- 21927070
+>>21926108
+Do whatever you want dude I don't give a shit. The point is you're making claims regarding NIETZSCHES positions that are untrue. Whatever you want for yourself I couldn't care less

lit/21923946.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,175 @@
+-----
+--- 21923946
+>woke institutions have literally stopped teachers from teaching phonics
+Postmodernism not even once. "There are a wide variety of reading strategies so who are we to say which one is best?" is just the same noncommittal milquetoast rot which infests every institutions being applied to schools. They'll render the population illiterate rather than have to confront someone for doing something the wrong way.
+
+https://www.the74million.org/article/review-why-you-should-buy-into-the-sold-a-story-podcast/
+--- 21923953
+>>21923946 (OP)
+That has nothing to do with postmodernism
+--- 21923960
+>>21923953
+Postmodernism is the denial of objective truth and an insistence on the irreducible complexity of life. A focus on multiple reading strategies rather than just sounding words out is based on the denial of the objective truth that there's a "best way" to learn to read and an insistence on the irreducible complexity of the learning process. They're saying that learning to read MUST be more complicated than just learning what sounds the letters make, and that therefore we have to take a scattershot approach to cover all possible bases.
+--- 21923991
+>>21923960
+Postmodernism is telling some science basedfag asking for sources to fuck off, or telling those faggots who say shit like "hurrr du didn reed Maex!" "daads nod whoud Niidshe meant!" that they are retarded faggots.
+Postmodernism is based, its not about denying "objective truth" at all.
+--- 21924019
+>>21923991
+Forgot that this board became too retarded to be worthwhile
+--- 21924047
+>>21924019
+stop getting your entire personality and ideas from peterson and start reading you sad fuck
+--- 21924068
+>>21924047
+>ecelebs
+>bargain barrel, relevant 5 years ago ecelebs
+That's your comeback? Utterly infested with retards, this board needs to be wiped
+--- 21924075
+>>21923960
+>Postmodernism is the denial of objective truth
+Can you tell me which postmodern thinker has actually taken this exact stance?
+--- 21924102
+>>21923960
+>the same dry james lindsay/jordan peterson/antiwoke-twitter arguments
+lurk more until you've read a book on two on the topic and you aren't just rehashing pop philosophy
+--- 21924108
+>>21924068
+I'm giving you the benefit of doubt and assuming an eceleb is the source of your problems, since that cult is the one that most commonly gets shit this wrong. Have you read any postmoderns? Do you even understand the difference between a philosopher and an ideologue?
+--- 21924232
+>>21924075
+>>21924102
+>>21924108
+>the kid diddlers really had a point anon, have you given them a chance?
+Have any of YOU read postmodern thinkers or are YOU just regurgitating contrarian 4chan clapbacks to "pop philosophy"?
+--- 21924244
+Also you niggers playing semantic games conflating the term "postmodernism" which is commonly used to refer to a broad ethos spanning the majority of elite US institutions with the limited, academic meaning of the term as a specific school of philosophical thought is a shallow attempt to divert a thread about the interaction of institutions with childhood literacy. It's because the attempt is shallow and derived from the contrarian echo-chamber impulse on this site that I call you all retarded. Rather than having an original thought you'd like to play semantic games that allow you to score points like a bunch of fucking redd1ddt0ids, which is why I left this board in the first place.
+--- 21924249
+>>21924019
+don't worry, I agree with you.
+
+>>21924047
+nobody cares about peterstein
+
+
+since nobody reads anyway:
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdf41gsESTc [Embed]
+--- 21924259
+>>21923991
+Marx was a modernist. He's the least post-modern thinker of all time.
+
+>>21923960
+Accurate view of postmodern thought but only tangentially related to phonics. Nobody thinks that there's one objective way to speak. New languages come into existence by speaking the old ones "wrong." People don't want to say one way of speaking vs another is correct or incorrect because that's just cultural dominance. For instance, a Boston accent isn't less correct than a Midwestern one. Also, personally, phonics never helped me read.
+--- 21924274
+>>21924259
+It's not about correcting pronunciation, it's about teaching phonics (sounding words out) vs teaching "whole word" reading and looking for context clues
+--- 21924358
+>>21924274
+I prefer the whole word reading personally
+--- 21924377
+>>21924358
+40 years of research have demonstrated that, when kids are first learning to read, that method doesn't work. Read the attached article
+--- 21924390
+>>21923946 (OP)
+>woke institutions have literally stopped teachers from teaching phonics
+Same in Brazil and it has created generations of functional illiteracy. Only 20% of university graduates are wholly literate 
+https://noticias.r7.com/brasil/universidade-so-15-dos-brasileiros-chegam-plenamente-alfabetizados-20072018
+
+This is a crime of national proportions. You cannot allow the leftist psychopaths to do this to your people. Start tteaching phonics on YouTube if it needed be or just homsechool them.
+--- 21924401
+>>21923960
+>A focus on multiple reading strategies rather than just sounding words out is based on the denial of the objective truth that there's a "best way" to learn to read and an insistence on the irreducible complexity of the learning process
+Ironically in doing this they assume there is a best way and that objective truth does exist: their way.
+Those relativistic sociopaths just use their relativism garbage as a rethorical tool, they don't believe in any of that shit.
+--- 21924410
+>>21924377
+Pedagogy leftists ignore all neuroscience work done on learning, that's why they're so opposed to memorizing the multiplication table and then have no idea why children are retarded when it comes to mental maths
+--- 21924414
+Based institutions for making the population illiterate. Now we rule over the masses.
+--- 21924419
+>>21924377
+Socioconstrutivism destroys entire nations. We paid the price, don't be stupid enough to let leftists anywhere near the education of children.
+http://www.bmartin.cc/dissent/documents/Facundo/Ohliger1.html
+--- 21924422
+>>21924414
+It doesn't work like that dumbass, the politicians, judges and corporate owners ruling over you (a neet) are also affected by that functional illiteracy so your country becomes Brazil. People cannot understand what you, as a literate person, is writing, because they are functionally illiterate. It's a distopian hell for anyone that understands the meaning of words.
+--- 21925044
+>>21924410
+>>21924377
+But why? The article makes no claim on who or why non-phonics is supported or even the woke logic behind it. If "wokeness" wasn't supported by better outcomes for the majority of people it wouldn't be supported.
+--- 21925096
+>>21925044
+The article is a review of a podcast which explains why phonics was abandoned despite being the best way to teach children. A non-phonics system which uses context clues rather than sounding words out to teach children to read was a vehicle for institutional capture which publishing companies and lobbying groups used to oppose George W Bush's program to adopt phonics as the primary reading educational program because the idea of a program that "feels better" and offers "a diversity of approaches to finding the meaning of a word" and "focuses on making enthusiastic readers, not machines that read by rote" was appealing to resentment fueled leftist schoolmarms.
+It has unquestionably been the case for 40 years that phonics is the ONLY way to effectively teach reading, and that students who succeed in non-phonics systems have simply absorbed phonics from other sources than school. But leftist teachers groups and lobbyists don't care.
+--- 21925272
+>>21924232
+>the kid diddlers really had a point anon, have you given them a chance?
+You belong on twitter if you think this lazy argument rids of you of the responsibility to be informed about what you are talking about.
+>Have any of YOU read postmodern thinkers or are YOU just regurgitating contrarian 4chan clapbacks to "pop philosophy"?
+I 've read Rorty and Nietzsche, if they count. What have you read outside twitter/medium posts? You've been found out, pseud.
+--- 21925304
+Colleges have been nothing more than a check in a box for a job since at least 2009. This is nothing new.
+--- 21925328
+>>21924259
+>Marx was a modernist. He's the least post-modern thinker of all time.
+Thats not what I meant, you can replace Marx with any author, I just chose him because troons regularly bring this up when they lose an argument. The point is that we give texts meaning so refering to the original work as an absolute is nonsense because its meaning is relative to the interpreter and open to different conclusions of which multiple can be correct.
+Insisting on the true interpretation is just ideology.
+--- 21925355
+>>21925272
+>you used a word in a broader sense than I wanted you to and that makes you a pseud
+>i know that this is true because I've read two authors, one of whom wasn't even postmodern
+>>21925304
+This isn't about college, it's about kindergarten
+--- 21925363
+>>21925272
+>I 've read Rorty and Nietzsche
+>calling other's pseuds
+--- 21925365
+The first state to get women out of teaching will become a utopia within 20 years, because the first generation of students raised with moderate discipline and decent educational standards will outperform every other dystopian region by a hundred times. 
+
+Not actively turning children into mentally ill homosexuals is now a revolutionary act. Just get women out of teaching and ideally resegregate it and you will produce ubermenschen by today's standards within 20 years.
+--- 21925375
+>>21925365
+This guy gets it
+--- 21925387
+>>21923946 (OP)
+And they wonder why people prefer choice and school vouchers and private schools.
+Sad thing is most teachers hate this shit and it's the school board or ISD or ... Some twat who never had taught a single class or interacted with students AT ALL who is forcing professors (more and more non-tenure) and teachers to push this clap.
+--- 21925427
+>>21925355
+>you used a word in a broader sense than I wanted you to and that makes you a pseud
+Who said anything about words. It was pointed out to you that browsing James Lindsay's twitter feed is not a replacement for actually engaging with the authors. Then you became defensive and said you don't need to read anything because they are pedophiles.
+--- 21925429
+Any teachers on /lit/ should watch this broad's channel
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8AHJ8dcoK8 [Embed]
+
+She talks a lot of shit and interviews other teachers
+--- 21925445
+>>21925427
+I DON'T need to read anything they've written, because their pedophiles. It's also incidental to my OP, because at most it would have changed one word that I used (postmodernism) without changing my actual point. Your namedropping ecelebs like I'm supposed to know who they are doesn't change that
+--- 21925536
+>>21925096
+This wasn't a left/right issue, it was a local partisan fight regarding funding that's really more about the flaws of the USA's particular regulatory structures and incentives than ideology.
+
+>>21925427
+>>21925445
+You have been talking past each other and acting like morons, both of you go sit in the corner for fifteen minutes.
+--- 21925924
+>>21925365
+Anyone who works in education knows how true this is.
+--- 21926077
+I leaned phonics and how to read from my parents actually giving a shit at teaching me themselves before even going to kindergarten. They also supplemented anything I did at school by being involved and teaching me anything they felt I could use that was left out.
+At the time it just felt like they were cooking up extra homework or something, as I reflect back on it I appreciate it immensely.
+
+Everyone knows that public schools auck and that most teachers are mediocre or even incompetent. If they actually gave a shit about their kids and their education they would make a effort to teach or supplement the teaching of their kids themselves.
+Or if they are really crunched for time, spend some money on private results based educational programs.
+--- 21926494
+>>21924075
+Derrida, when he wrote "There is nothing outside the text"
+--- 21926519
+>>21924075
+Lyotard
+--- 21927376
+>>21924259
+Phonics works the same in any accent, dipshit. Boston teachers using phonics to teach Boston kids, or Kiwi teachers teaching Kiwi kids, it makes no difference.

lit/21923998.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,52 @@
+-----
+--- 21923998
+I'm looking something inspirational.
+What are the books that praise individualism, human creativity, assertiveness, overcoming problems even if with big effort?
+It does not necessarily have to be the promotion of capitalism. More, I would like to avoid reading moralism or some coach-like-speech (that is why I would prefer novels).
+Giaur and not faggy-doomer Romanticism
+Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
+Atlas Shrugged, maybe?
+Something written by Jack London?
+Some early fascist literature and philosophy (before too much retardation and nerds)?
+Classics
+South America should have some cultural works in this spirit I guess
+https://youtu.be/lmZ-hdoZSr0 [Embed]
+--- 21924027
+>>21923998 (OP)
+Nietzsche, Stirner, Emerson
+--- 21924338
+>>21923998 (OP)
+--- 21924342
+>>21923998 (OP)
+The Fountainhead checks all your boxes
+--- 21924595
+>>21923998 (OP)
+Butcher's Crossing by Williams
+Measuring the World by Kehlmann
+--- 21924654
+>>21924342
+Seconded, this is 100% what you're looking for OP. It takes a little while to get going but the payoff is worth it.
+--- 21924673
+>>21923998 (OP)
+Cool quote from reading Middlemarch last night, hadn't heard of Wotton before
+--- 21924718
+Read Shine, Republic, a short poem by Robinson Jeffers
+--- 21924750
+>>21924673
+Damn that one got me. Reminds me a little of Thoreau:
+“I’d rather sit on a pumpkin and have it all to myself, than be crowded on a velvet cushion.”
+--- 21925346
+>>21923998 (OP)
+paradise lost
+Rival Caesars (maybe, never read it)
+--- 21925666
+Dang this site is shit.
+Here just clock this link and read the 100+ titles therein:
+http://freenortherner.com/free-mans-reading-list/
+--- 21925697
+>>21923998 (OP)
+Read histories of the Pirate Republics, and the "Third Man Phenomena".
+--- 21925767
+Butchers Crossing
+--- 21926111
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91gT68xeDMM [Embed]

lit/21924046.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,38 @@
+-----
+--- 21924046
+I am interested in the practice of Dzogchen. I've familiarized myself with Theravada Buddhism (most suttas of the main Nikayas) and Mahayana, but I feel drawn to Dzogchen in particular.
+Could you point me towards good books on the subject?
+--- 21924055
+>>21924046 (OP)
+Start with sucking boy's tongues.
+--- 21924085
+>>21924055
+I said I wanted to practice Dzogchen, not become a CIA asset.
+--- 21924088
+>>21924046 (OP)
+You need a teacher to practice dzogchen, but this is a good introduction
+--- 21924091
+>>21924088
+The problem is that finding a Dzogchen teacher is not easy in my geographic area
+--- 21924100
+>>21924091
+the bigger problem is not getting sexually molested or rejected if you are too old
+--- 21925441
+>>21924055
+
+Underrated.
+--- 21925828
+I don’t know how non-chinks are supposed to differentiate between all these various buddhist sects and schools they’re all sound vague and similar to one another in the same time
+--- 21927050
+>>21925828
+Dzogchen is the highest teaching in tibetan buddhism
+--- 21927126
+>>21924046 (OP)
+There's courses/programs you can find online that are legit. Obviously not a placeholder for a guru but they do teach you the real deal techniques. Issue is you gotta pay around $100 usd last time I checked.
+--- 21927277
+>>21924046 (OP)
+Dzogchen? more like dogshit
+--- 21927279
+>>21927050
+>Dzogchen is the highest teaching in tibetan buddhism
+shouldn't you spend 30 years washing rice in a monastery before they teach it to you then? or you just can download it from torrent?

lit/21924125.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,60 @@
+-----
+--- 21924125
+Are there more contemporary writers than the ancient gnostics who talk about the prison planet in a straightforward manner?
+I've already read VALIS, and I'm tired of sifting through youtube for schizo videos.
+--- 21924138
+Voyage to Arcturus, Those Who Walk Away From Omelas, Kenogaia
+--- 21924282
+Robert Monroe and the Wes Penre papers
+--- 21924421
+>>21924125 (OP)
+Gnosticism is heresy. Read Iranaeus
+--- 21924431
+>>21924421
+The bishop of Lyon was a fool blinded by dogma
+--- 21924441
+>>21924421
+Catholicism has always been the whore of Babylon and of the devil.
+--- 21924457
+L. Ron
+--- 21924487
+>>21924441
+Based
+--- 21924559
+>prison world!!!11
+>biblically accurate angels!!!11
+same person
+--- 21924566
+>>21924421
+>>21924559
+Sheltered children
+--- 21924586
+>>21924566
+le ebil demiurge is gonna come for you
+oh no wait you have the *secret keys*
+remember not to go towards the white light, it's BAD
+--- 21924597
+>>21924586
+>heh, what if I trivialized your views with trite irony and low-effort straw men?
+I'd call you cattle but even cows have a faint gleam in their eyes that suggests sentience and consciousness
+--- 21924662
+>>21924597
+oh shit, looks like I'm not a PNEUMATIC, it's over
+--- 21924679
+>>21924421
+>Read Iranaeus
+>I didn't see any mention of Christ therefor it is smelly and bad and they are stupid and also gay no i didn't actually read any gnostic scripture 
+lol
+--- 21924798
+>>21924421
+Wasn’t Iraenus a heretic too?
+--- 21925258
+>>21924662
+Faux irony is not witty
+--- 21925592
+the book where this depiction is from is absolute history kino
+--- 21925642
+>>21924798
+No, but his apprentice broke away from the church in his later years and joined the montanist movement
+--- 21926887
+Bump