diff --git "a/co/136747249.txt" "b/co/136747249.txt" new file mode 100644--- /dev/null +++ "b/co/136747249.txt" @@ -0,0 +1,1685 @@ +----- +--- 136747249 +Why are kids losing interest in cartoons? +--- 136747286 +>>136747249 (OP) +>Owl House didn't fit Disney Brand +>Meanwhile pic related fits Disney Brand just fine +--- 136747292 +As in it wasn't shit or not enough singing? +--- 136747306 +>>136747292 +>It wasn’t shit +Lol +Lmao +--- 136747320 +>>136747249 (OP) +I have an 11 year old niece. +She's more entertained by wacky jocks on youtube doing parkour. +The cartoons are appeal more to people like my 26 year old sister that works for a non-profit. +--- 136747354 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because all modern cartoonists can come up with is DUDE DEMONS and anime ripoffs +--- 136747452 +Your image and post have nothing to do with each other +--- 136747526 +>>136747286 +What everyone misunderstands about TOH being cancelled was that it wasn't cancelled simply because of gays, but primarily due to TOH being the most expensive show airing on Disney at the time while failing to garner enough viewers to justify a full third season. Making matters worse was the show being the last DVTA serialized show released during a time when new producers were moving away from it and back to episodic programming. + +Specifically the show was originally intended to be far more darker and morbid ala Courage the Cowardly Dog, something Disney opposed (hence the unused backgrounds and rejected short along with the sharp contrast with the pilot pitch) as they were moving away from that sort of thing. +--- 136747561 +>>136747249 (OP) +kids never liked loreshit cartoons. its audience are weebs or people who think they are too good for anime. +--- 136747589 +>>136747526 +Disney has made it clear they have no problem with gay characters, but Owl House specifically was openly LGBT more than what Disney was used to, on top of a non-trad feminine MC with a lack of male audience surrogates during S1. Complicating things was a hell-esque setting with occult elements, something Disney has ALMOST NEVER BEEN comfortable with. + +The inclusion of Hexside and Owl House staying in Bonesborough for most of the series tells you everything about what Disney wanted from TOH: Gravity Falls meets Harry Potter but minus the edges and alienating bits. But Dana refused to play ball, so they canned it. And if that wasn't bad enough, the production team was mostly green, which meant S1 would suck regardless of what happened. +--- 136747608 +>>136747249 (OP) +Source: Dana's ass. + +I'll believe Disney, the gayest company today, cancelled the owl house for being "too gay", when an actual executive comes out and says it. I won't believe Dana, who is so hell-bent against the company, and is renown for speaking out of her ass. + +Her show bottomed in viewership in every single medium it was aired at. It's more likely the show was cancelled because the production team (Danna and the gang) were insufferable at the workplace while not pulling their weight. +--- 136747622 +>>136747589 +>Complicating things was a hell-esque setting with occult elements, something Disney has ALMOST NEVER BEEN comfortable with. +Brother, Star Vs. starred a witch dressed in devil horns dating a demon from hell. +--- 136747626 +>>136747452 +You're comparing worthless YouTube views with actual cable views? +--- 136747647 +>>136747622 +Hardcore copium from the 4 fans that shit show has. + +Disney doesn't give a shit about satanic references or gay shit. There's literally airing now a Disney TV show about a teen girl that got pregnant by Satan. + +The show got cancelled because nobody cared about it. +--- 136747649 +>>136747589 +I imagine they also shifted uncomfortable when the crew behind Owl House tried to play up the fact its main character was "neurodivergent", as if that's something to be proud of. +--- 136747659 +>>136747649 +"Ah, actually, our main character is, um, retarded, so we have that representation going!" +We could tell without them saying it lol. +--- 136747662 +>>136747622 +Counter-point: Tom and the demonic was not a major plot setting or character unlike what TOH was doing, and even then it could fall into being accepted due to demons looking like monsters anyway. TOH was straight up including actual occult imagery and featuring demons from grimoires, and made the bad guy an evil Puritan playing Evil Pope. +--- 136747670 +>>136747626 +No those are all TV ratings, TOH's last 3 episodes got ~20M views on YouTube in addition to these +--- 136747673 +>>136747608 +Source: Anons every so shrinking penis. +--- 136747674 +>>136747249 (OP) +Owl House was obviously made for 20 something year old womanchild dykes + +I'm sure kids will watch the cartoon about Batman's car coming to life or whatever TMNT reboot goes on the air +--- 136747680 +>>136747249 (OP) +I don’t get Disney. On the one hand the cancel Owl House for supposedly the gay stuff (because what else could it be), on the other hand they fervently fight back against DeSantis in California? At least my news is full of that shit. +--- 136747682 +>>136747608 +>Her show bottomed in viewership in every single medium it was aired at. +Actually it's DTVA's most successful show in recent times +--- 136747689 +>>136747526 +>but primarily due to TOH being the most expensive show airing on Disney at the time +I'm yet to see a source for this claim + +>while failing to garner enough viewers to justify a full third season +It got roughly the same or more views as everything else on the network +--- 136747703 +>>136747649 +The fact that Dana mentioned going out of her way to fight with Disney over how feminine Luz should be immediately pegged her as self destructive in my eyes. She's the same person behind the infamous middle finger to the Lego Friends sets tweet (Dana doesn't understand that Lego Friends actually saved Lego from bankruptcy or that girls LOVED it for being distinctly feminine, hence why girls didn't buy regular Lego for being for boys or too neutral). + +Dana doesn't really understand that Luz being GNC made things worse: it pissed off Disney because they couldn't market her like Star or Mabel or Webby, and then proved Disney right! +--- 136747721 +>>136747689 +One of the storyboarders/production members tweeted about the costs, go look for it yourself. + +Keep in mind that TOH was delayed a year which certainly increased costs on top of COVID kneecapping Disney. +--- 136747726 +>>136747249 (OP) +Owl House couldn't be anymore pathetic. I bet Disney regretted every penny they spent on that shitty canceled show. +--- 136747729 +>>136747249 (OP) +Reminder that the creators lied about it being episodic and instead tried to push a serialized plot. +--- 136747735 +>>136747703 +What's GNC? +--- 136747752 +>>136747721 +>One of the storyboarders/production members tweeted about the costs, go look for it yourself. +No + +>Keep in mind that TOH was delayed a year which certainly increased costs on top of COVID kneecapping Disney. +That was executives trying to rework it into what they wanted which was different from what was greenlit, hardly the crew's fault, and COVID affected everything, in fact TOH proved it can work with a slashed and reduced budget and a reduced season order +--- 136747766 +>>136747249 (OP) +Part of the problem is that serialized shows these days usually just aren't appealing towards kids like they used to. They're too concerned with being for "adults" that they fail to court children or can't appeal to regular adults period. The 2000s and 90s proved serialized cartoons could be successful, but a lack of appeal to children, the refusal of episodic elements on behalf of showrunners, and the economy being ass means there's no place for serialization anymore unless the economy massively improves...or if showrunners stop trying to emulate anime and remember to give kids what they want. +--- 136747778 +>>136747766 +see >>136747452 +Episodic shows aren't doing too hot either, animation is dying because it has to compete with YouTube and TikTok +--- 136747791 +>>136747682 +Social media doesn't count. Only 23% of adults in the US actually use Twitter. +--- 136747793 +>>136747735 +Gender non conforming. Hence why Luz looks boring and why fans liked Amity more for... being feminine. +--- 136747798 +>>136747778 +Little kids still watch cartoons. It's the older kids who switched over to YouTube and Tik Tok. Animated films are still watched by both though. +--- 136747801 +>>136747791 +I never mentioned social media +--- 136747807 +>>136747798 +>Little kids still watch cartoons +You mean babies that can't change the channel? + +Even animated movies are getting hammered, Minions is the only really successful animated movie in 3-4 years +--- 136747832 +>>136747608 +>Disney, the gayest company today +have they even had any actual on screen gay that wasn't a background stuff you basically have to look for? +pretty much all their gay characters are bottom of the barrel bait that often needs external confirmation since it's too vague +--- 136747871 +>>136747526 +>What everyone misunderstands about TOH being cancelled was that it wasn't cancelled simply because of gays, +That has a lot to do with it. Kids don't want to watch a show about lesbians. If the show would've been just Disney's own version of Harry Potter where they have an Adventure and Handsome Boy of the Week, it would've resonated more with the girl audience it was going for. If you have a show aimed at girls, you absolutely need some part of it to be about fancy dresses or makeup and dreamy boys, even when 70% of the premise is magical fantasy land adventures with a GILF Dumbledore. Instead Dana was aiming for the ex-Tumblr/modern Twitter audience which might be loud on the internet but its also a very small percentage compared to actual kids. +--- 136747901 +>>136747871 +Relevant. +--- 136747916 +Reminder that execs are still generally closeminded enough to cancel stuff even if its pretty successful because it attracted the wrong audience" +--- 136747926 +>>136747249 (OP) +let me guess,there wasn't a tranny character,that's why it got cancelled +isn't it? +--- 136747958 +>>136747249 (OP) +Tiktok, Youtube, anime and manga for older kids. +The latter two in particular satisfy a niche, the 13-18 audience, that American animation and comics do not. Think about it. As far as animation goes, you got preschool shows, episodic sitcoms, shows like TOH which are still very much for kids, then adult animation. No high-octane action with a touch of content that would immediately be considered adult here but elsewhere works great for teenagers. +--- 136747961 +>>136747901 +Super relevant. Theres a sizeable female audience for PotC films. Can you guess why? Because they like ghost pirates or women in corsets? Take a look at Disney's Mulan (animated). You got the scene where she gets prettied up so they can sell the princess merchandise shit, you also have a handsome chinese shirtless captain doing cool kung fu shit with his bulging chest muscles. +--- 136747974 +>>136747608 +Dana herself said the gay stuff wasn't the reason +--- 136747978 +>>136747766 +Post ITT I agree the most with. The ideal would be to be more honest with age ratings instead of still trying to sneak in lore into cartoons presented as for children. As is shows like Amphibia and TOH only appeal to legacy fans of the series that preceded them. +--- 136748006 +>>136747766 +It wasnt all roses and rainbows in 90's and 80's either. Cartoon shows only happened if they could market toys with them. TMNT the cartoon show didn't happen because the comic was a success, TMNT the cartoon happened because they marketed a very successfuly toy-line along with it. + +https://youtu.be/GMJ252v1n7k [Embed] +--- 136748059 +>>136747961 +Women find Jack Sparrow sexy? He looks like a bum +--- 136748084 +>>136748059 +Johnny Depp is just that much of a hottie I suppose +--- 136748111 +>>136748006 +Anon said nothing about 80s cartoons, fucking retard. +--- 136748116 +>>136748084 +I can admit Depp's sexy but him as Jack Sparrow is like comparing Brendan Fraser in The Mummy vs Brendan Fraser in The Whale +--- 136748149 +>>136748111 +Thats why I said 90's, learn to read you fucking dumbass tranny tourist retard fuck. +--- 136748164 +>>136747703 +So what your saying is that dosney wanted generic slop. +--- 136748172 +>>136748116 +I guess its because Depp is playing a humorous rockstar swashbuckler antihero character. Biggest original trilogy fans in my household are my mother and my 3 sisters. +--- 136748178 +>>136748116 +Nta but I don't know what to tell you, I distinctly remember a bunch of teenager girls being hot for that swartthly, dishevelled mumbling filthy man. I can't be too judgement. I had a thing for Tia Dalma/Calypso even though I really shouldn't have. +--- 136748195 +>>136747249 (OP) +They're low budget, ugly, and focus too much on mundane "kid" shit. When I was young, the most popular shows were stuff like Ninja Turtles, Transformers, He-Man, Animaniacs, Power Rangers, etc. Compare that to the crap they have now. Quality aside, those older shows had a lot that directly appealed to young kids. New shows just don't have that. It's similar to why the Mario movie is doing crazy numbers while Disney's recent offerings all flopped. Mario appeals to kids now just as kit did 30-40 years ago. Disney's recent shit is the exact crap you see on television, only with a budget. It doesn't appeal to kids, it's aimed more towards college-aged 20-somethings.. +--- 136748210 +>>136748059 +there's also orlando bloom +--- 136748244 +>>136748210 +I remember years ago when the first film was on theaters, the scene where Depp and Legolas steal the military ship early on I could hear the chicks in their seats have a long sigh. They also snorting laughed out loud like retards every single time Sparrow did anything funny. + +Another maybe better example would be Hunger Games. Everyone talks about how "female empowering" the movie is, but girls at the time of the film coming out didn't give a single fuck about the movie having some kind of feminist main character, they were screaming over the teenage boy idols dressing in skintight outfits. 100% guarantee the movie would've flopped if it didn't have dreamy popstar boys in it. +--- 136748292 +>>136747452 +When i look up clips of this show they range from 100k to 400k. Thats lower then RWBY and people consider that a dying show +Why are people trying to gaslight us into thinking this was succesfull? It only got 3 seasons for a reason. Stop coping +--- 136748380 +>>136748244 +Are we talking about the same Hunger Games? Only actor I can think of that fits that description is Josh Hutcherson and I don't recall people giving that much of a shit about him +--- 136748500 +>>136747807 +Didn't Mario do very well? +--- 136748511 +>>136747249 (OP) +There's not enough rape in cartoons +--- 136748530 +>>136747249 (OP) +This again? +Optimus.jpg +--- 136748531 +>>136747249 (OP) +Why are cartoons losing interest in children? +--- 136748577 +>>136748292 +What a bizarre metric +--- 136748590 +>>136747526 +>What everyone misunderstands about TOH being cancelled was that it wasn't cancelled simply because of gays, but primarily due to TOH being the most expensive show airing on Disney at the time while failing to garner enough viewers to justify a full third season. + +Having to censor or ban it in other countries probably didn't help either. +--- 136748696 +The true killers of cartoons is YouTubers and Twitch streamers. Cable TV has been slowly but surely dying over the past decade. Cartoons should be released on their respective apps in conjunction with Cable TV release. +--- 136748697 +>>136747249 (OP) +>Owl House didn't fit Disney Brand + +Havent they announced a film about a teen fucking Satan? +--- 136748705 +>>136748531 +see >>136747674 +--- 136748723 +>>136747670 +Weird. When I checked the YouTube, they had 5M, not 20M. And then they got removed. + +Is a requirement to talk out of your ass to like this show? Seems it applies to everybody that likes it. +--- 136748758 +>>136748723 + +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRfTRN1F5Ys [Embed] + +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOMu86yxneA [Embed] + +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVSaLg5xBr0 [Embed] +--- 136748808 +>>136747292 +>it wasn't shit +Anon, the only thing people cared about it were underage lesbians +--- 136748871 +>>136747682 +LOL not what any of the numbers say. + +Cope, faggot. Your tranny show was liked by nobody that mattered. +--- 136748876 +>>136748871 +It's actually exactly what the numbers say +--- 136748979 +>>136747249 (OP) +Your question has nothing to do with your picture. Anyway, kids have been losing interest 20 years ago because video games and internet, and also the fact that they want grown-up stuff which cartoons don't normally offer. +--- 136749010 +>>136747249 (OP) +Meanwhile Tenchi Muyo GXP is getting a new OVA series, Ryoko won +--- 136749057 +>>136747689 +Way below Amphibia despite airing at the same time. Never scoring above anything in Disney+, barely making it to the bottom of the top 15. + +And most hilarious of all, the third season is posted for free on YouTube, and lol, after 20 days it only had 5M viewers, on a channel with 7M subscribers. + +They don't even want it for free. +--- 136749089 +>>136749057 +>Way below Amphibia despite airing at the same time. Never scoring above anything in Disney+, barely making it to the bottom of the top 15 +Post the numbers and sources + +>after 20 days it only had 5M viewers, on a channel with 7M subscribers +That's actually crazy good +--- 136749097 +>>136747778 +Ah yes, random homemade graph. Very reliable. +--- 136749112 +>>136749097 +The numbers are from Showbuzz Daily +--- 136749116 +>>136747526 +Dana being an ass to work with too. +--- 136749127 +>>136747526 +The lack of viewership from their target audience was the true reason it was cancelled. Nobody under 16 cares about the show, and that's the target Disney wants. +--- 136749140 +>>136748876 +Yes, I'm sure the imaginary numbers in your head are very long. +--- 136749173 +>>136748758 +> 6M released 6 months ago +> 7M released 2 months ago +> 5.6M released 10 days ago +> Channel has 7.75M subscribers +All under performed given the channel's subscriber count. None reached 20M like you claimed. Not even cumulative. +Your show is literally a shitshow even in the free platform where the same person can count for two, three and infinite views lol. +--- 136749183 +>>136748696 +>The true killers of cartoons is YouTubers and Twitch streamers +no the true killers is that cartoons are shit. anime is doing great in comparision +--- 136749188 +>>136748006 +And they were good despite the fact that they were toy commercials. Your point? +--- 136749192 +>>136749089 +> 5M views after a month in a channel with 7M subscribers is crazy good. + +You're retarded. +--- 136749197 +>>136749173 +Anon not only are you illiterate and don't know each of the episodes was only available for a couple of weeks, you also don't know those are amazing numbers given the amount of subscribers +--- 136749204 +>>136749127 +Nobody over 16 either lol. +--- 136749229 +>>136747452 +This might as well be a picture of a smiley face. No source, no time slots, no episode numbers. +--- 136749237 +>>136749197 +Literally not true. The episodes were available until the next one was out. Episode 1 was available for over a month. Episode 2 for longer than that. + +And lol, less viewers than you have subscribers, for a SHOW'S FINALE, after a whole month, is "amazing"? + +Amazing at being absolute dogshit. Nobody with at least half a brain would regret such a failure of a show to get cancelled. +--- 136749276 +>>136749229 +It's a picture of his ass, as it's where he pulled it from. +--- 136749279 +>>136747670 +Source. +--- 136749316 +>>136748006 +Nobody said it was rainbows and roses but your a genuine, actual, LGBTQ faggot if you think the toy commercials aren’t better than the fag propaganda. +--- 136749327 +>>136748876 +Post them. With a source. +--- 136749346 +Disney literally does not have brand identity anymore though. They should have realized all these weird live action adaptations fucked up any sense of shared identity or coherence. +--- 136749366 +>>136749010 +--- 136749376 +>>136747320 +Your 11 year old niece is looking for sex and your 26 year old sister is looking for escapism from adulthood. There I spelled it for your autistic ass. + +Even in the 90's 11 year old girls were typically not into toys or cartoons +--- 136749392 +>>136749279 +He's lying. Check +>>136748758 +>>136749173 +--- 136749408 +>>136749089 +>>after 20 days it only had 5M viewers, on a channel with 7M subscribers +>That's actually crazy good +Anon, most people who are watching YouTube video are not subscribed to that particular channel +--- 136749552 +>>136749376 +Women generally don't give a crap about cartoons, comics or videogames. Which is one of the many reasons the comic industry is failing. So many comics shitting on men, when men is 99% of their userbase. + +The problem with cartoons nowadays is very simple. Back in the 2000s, and heck, in 1990s, the purpose of a cartoon was for a parent to sit a kid in front of a TV and keep the kid entertained for 20 minutes or more. + +Nowadays, you do that, and the kid later at dinner asks you "What's a transgender?" which oof, nobody wants to explain to children that people are so crazy they cut their dicks off. + +Also, another big factor is the lack of "funny", replaced by "preaching". The Owl House, for example, has nobody funny in it besides maybe Hooty, but he's more cringe than funny. + +That is horrible for a slice of life comedy whatever this show tried to be. Who, besides the mentally ill that screech and call it "the best thing ever" when they see their sexuality represented in a cartoon, would find this show good or entertaining? + +Maybe the losers with far, faaaaar too much free time. But children? Oof, no. Children have a million things more entertaining to do. + +So overall, neither the parents will sit the children in front of the TV to watch these shitty cartoons, nor the children themselves will try to watch them. Because they're boring. And the problem with this, the big problem, is that all cartoon started being exactly like this, so when a new cartoon comes out, people assume it's going to be the same (and lol it is), and so nobody watches it. + +It's the reason why in 2012 Gravity Falls had 4M viewers and Disney was like "hmmmmmmm, unsure it's big enough to give it a 2nd season..." and now in 2023, dogshit barely hits 0.4M and they immediately are greenlit for 3 seasons. + +There is more people alive now than in 2012, but there is ironically less people interested in cartoons, because they turned into shit. +--- 136749584 +>>136747703 +>hence why girls didn't buy regular Lego for being for boys or too neutral). +I didn't realize children were buying their own toys with their own income now. Guess they must all be famous YouTube content creators. +--- 136749606 +>>136749183 +......................... +--- 136749614 +>>136747249 (OP) +>Why are kids losing interest in cartoons +Because western cartoons for the past 10+ years are dogshit garbage and they would rather watch anime. American animation is beyond fucking sissified and uninteresting. +--- 136749619 +>>136747901 +Remember when all the girls went crazy for the fucking Once-ler because he looked kind of sleek and sexy? Or how they all went nuts for Riddler/Penguin shipping in Gotham? +--- 136749628 +>>136748590 +Shits expensive yo +--- 136749635 +>>136749552 +Women like cartoons. They want Yosemite Sam and Droopy, Rigby from Regular Show, and SpongeBob +--- 136749657 +>>136747673 +CHECK PLEASE +--- 136749682 +>>136747680 +> (because what else could it be) +READ THE FUCKING THREAD BEFORE POSTING, REDDITOR +--- 136749693 +>>136747249 (OP) +Did Dana really think it was a good idea to pitch a cartoon about witches with a lot of real-world Satanic and occult imagery + terminology that has a heavy focus on LGBTQ+ relationships to DISNEY would be a good idea? And that it would turn out exactly how she wanted? Especially while dating Alex Fucking Hirsch who could and would tell her what a nightmare it was working with their S&P department? + +Like, can is she naïve enough to think that Disney would be "taking chances" because of some spiel a producer might've given her? Or is she stupid enough and genuinely can't see the tonal difference between this and Hocus Pocus and thinks, "Well, they allowed that movie, I'm sure they open to more stuff like it!"? + +It just seems like she was setting herself up for failure. +--- 136749699 +>>136749614 +>they would rather watch anime +Kids these days watch YouTube and Tiktok, not gooktoons. +--- 136749701 +>>136747682 +Actually post numbers or fuck off +--- 136749730 +>>136749619 +Daffy Duck is the only character I can think of who is paternalistic and he's popular with women. +--- 136749734 +>>136748006 +This was mostly 80's fare though. The 90's was a fucking renaissance for TV animation. If you showed clips of The Fungies, Big City Greens, Middlemost Post, and Craig of the Creek and then played then back-to-back with Rocko's Modern Life, Ed Edd n Eddy, Freakazoid, and Batman: The Animated Series, there would absolutely be a general consensus of, "What the fuck happened???". +--- 136749755 +>>136749730 +It's cause he's seen as a duo with Bugs who is playful and teasing which makes for great shipping potential. I think girls tend to like the angry, snarky Daffy over the looney version that tends to hang out with Porky. I feel as though Daffy gained a lot of "artist fans" after The Looney Tunes Show. +--- 136749766 +>>136749376 +>Your 11 year old niece is looking for sex +You gonna tell that to the judge? +--- 136749812 +>>136749755 +Daffy is based off Bob Clampett and Tex Avery's hunting adventures. He's very good at fucking with hunters for shits and giggles. Porky was just a simple wagie or a school boy before he met Daffy +--- 136749840 +>>136749197 +Lackadaisy's pilot has been up on the YT channel with roughly 600k subscribers for two weeks and has gotten 7 mil views. It is doing as well or better than any of TOH's free finale episodes on YT. Consider that for a moment. + +The first episode of TOH has been sitting on Disney's YT channel for THREE YEARS. It has gotten NINE MILLION views. By comparison, Helluva Boss episodes are sitting at 20 - 45 mil views per episode while being 1 - 3 years old. + +TOH's streaming numbers are simply not as good as you think they not. Not in the era where "going viral" and pushing shit on people's dashboard is no longer a rarity and can be calculated and planned by bigger companies. +--- 136749926 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because 90% of cartoons targeted at kids are dumb spastic bullshit that treat their audience like they're hyperactive retards. That's the way it's been since the 70s. The difference is that now kids who like that stuff get their fix from YouTube and TikTok and the kids who like the quieter, thoughtful series that talk to them like they're not fucking stupid can't find enough of those kinds of shows to maintain their interest. +--- 136750017 +>>136747807 +>Even animated movies are getting hammered +Because they stopped being fun and started being woke and depressing. +--- 136750087 +>>136747589 +I kind of doubt this, Owl House has LGBT characters but it's usually potrayed as though it's a normal thing and nothing more than that, meanwhile shows like Proud Family or Moon Girl tend to flaunt their representation in a way that makes it feel more "relevant" to social issues and the former even has an episode directly dealing with homophobia. +--- 136750207 +>>136750087 +>Owl House has LGBT characters but it's usually potrayed as though it's a normal thing and nothing more than that + +I think they underestimate how jarring that is for most viewers. In spite of all the propaganda/campaigning of the shit most understand that being gay or lesbian is a journey that takes some soul searching to really come to grips with. +--- 136750223 +>>136749840 +Lackadaisy's 7M views in two weeks are considered a great viral success, that's for an episode anticipated for 3 years funded through a Kickstarter, for an IP that existed for 17 years, available ONLY on YouTube, free internationally. + +Meanwhile TOH is first available on paid cable, then through on-demand paid TV, iTunes, Google Play, Amazon etc, then pirated links, streaming sites, and torrents, and finally paid Disney+, and it does great on all of them, and then it gets 5-6 million views on YouTube in a week anyway, available ONLY in select regions, then it trended as #5 on Disney+. + +Same goes for Helluva Boss, whose latest episode only did 14M views in 40 days (channel has 7.8M subscribers), when TOH's S3 all got 5-6M views in ~10 days, again one is available ONLY on YouTube for free internationally, the other goes through various legal and illegal channels first and is available in select regions for a limited time. By stressing the supposed success of Lackadaisy and Helluva Boss, you only made TOH's performance look much better in comparison. +--- 136750242 +>>136749173 +>>136749192 +Out of fairness, what’s the average number of views each video on the channel gets? +--- 136750250 +>>136749926 +>kids who like the quieter, thoughtful series that talk to them like they're not fucking stupid +We read books growing up. Screens of any kind were social events (at best) to just time killers (at worse). +--- 136750268 +>>136749701 +>0.5M TV ratings at a time when everything else is doing like this >>136747452 +>4.5 million views in 4 days on YouTube +>20 million views on YouTube for S3 total +>#5 trending on Disney+ +>320k tweets on Twitter trending +>finale is the most watched Disney Channel telecast of the year so far +>the #3 most in-demand series on Disney+ last December +>8.5 rating with 15k ratings total on IMDB, 9.6 rating through 1.1k votes for the finale in 10 days +>entered the IMDB top 100 popular shows as the only western animation except South Park and Star Wars, the only anime in top 100 are AOT and KNY +--- 136750278 +>>136749693 +>Did Dana really think it was a good idea to pitch a cartoon about witches with a lot of real-world Satanic and occult imagery + terminology that has a heavy focus on LGBTQ+ relationships to DISNEY would be a good idea? +Well it got greenlit so yes? +--- 136750286 +>>136750207 +I feel like characters just being gay and leaving it at that would be more acceptable to most viewers than a character literally saying "Hello, I identify myself by they/them pronouns, what are yours?" +--- 136750315 +>>136747249 (OP) +Truthfully I always took that statement as "Dana Terrace was fucking impossible to work with". It's really kind of a shame because it felt like she was starting to get her act together in season 3 too. The manlet really mindbucked that woman. +--- 136750319 +>>136747249 (OP) +cell phones tablets computers and anime, yes anime is popular but children don't understand it +--- 136750324 +>>136749408 +Pewdiepie has 111M subscribers but his daily videos average 1-2M views, but they're low effort vlogs so let's compare it to an actual high value production, Kurzgesagt has 20M subscribers, none of their last 12 videos could cross 8M views, to get to 9M views you have to go 6 months back +--- 136750336 +>>136750315 +>The manlet really mindbucked that woman. +--- 136750347 +>>136750336 +Alex "The Mighty Manlet" Hirsch (as he went by when he was a backyard wrestling jobber) +--- 136750354 +>>136750223 +You're saying, "TOH is doing great relevant to its situation!". It's situation is that it is a major DTVA production backed by Disney money and advertising and is still getting beaten by online-only web shows. Helluva Boss's creator, Vivienne, has as much presence and as many followers as Dana Terrace. They both make shows about girls in hell. They both went to SVA. They both are in charge of show productions. Hazbin Hotel pilot dropped around 2019, TOH premiered in 2020. + +Dana has four times the amount of content as Vivienne because she is working with Disney budget and pipeline. And yet, Vivienne's products have been getting more attention over time through simple word-of-mouth and actually hitting her target audience while Dana has not. These are NOT GOOD NUMBERS. +--- 136750373 +>>136749279 +see >>136748758 + +>>136749173 +Anon you might be illiterate because nowhere does my post say the episodes reached 20M EACH, you also might be bad at math since 6,07+7,15+5,7+1,06 is 19.98 which is ~20M as claimed + +The last 1,06 is from the S3 compilation video +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg2i4vqSFxM [Embed] +--- 136750377 +Is the problem not that most of the kind of viewers that watch shows like Owl House don't have cable and it would probably be way more successful if it was a Disney+ original from the start since streaming is popular these days? +--- 136750378 +>>136747249 (OP) +>Why are kids losing interest in cartoons? +>posts owl house +Yeah it's a mystery. +--- 136750392 +>>136749229 +>No source +Source is Showbuzz Daily + +>no time slots +Not sure why they're relevant but you can check them on Showbuzz or Wikipedia easily + +>no episode numbers. +You have the date, you know it's the latest 5 episodes up to that date, easily checked on Wikipedia +--- 136750397 +Get woke go broke +--- 136750406 +>>136749192 +>>136749237 +see >>136750223 and >>136750324 +--- 136750435 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because Fortnite exists. +--- 136750471 +>>136750377 +Not sure since The Ghost and Molly McGee is hitting good numbers and seems to be going strong on both cable and streaming. + +Bluntly I think the main character being after another girl as well as no love triangles and/or unreachable romances (ie things keep them apart) it just doesn't bring in a lot of viewers. If they had any wits about them they would have made a side member of the show gay/lesbian and have the MC have boy problems that girls of all ages love to read and watch. +--- 136750481 +>>136749606 +.................. +--- 136750510 +>>136748577 +NTA but no it isn't. 100k is pretty low. +--- 136750541 +>>136749606 +This is true and >>136749183 is still correct. +--- 136750547 +>>136750354 +>It's situation is that it is a major DTVA production backed by Disney money and advertising +Actually Disney is trying to bury it by never promoting it or rerunning it ever since it got cancelled + +>and is still getting beaten by online-only web shows. +But it's not, not only does TOH get more views total, it gets actual paid views, and then the free views (either pirated or YouTube) also beat or perform on par as the online-only web shows + +>Helluva Boss's creator, Vivienne, has as much presence and as many followers as Dana Terrace. They both make shows about girls in hell. They both went to SVA. They both are in charge of show productions. Hazbin Hotel pilot dropped around 2019, TOH premiered in 2020. +Vivienne spent the last decade exclusively building her online presence through animated music videos and the like, Dana was storyboarding for DTVA while only passively engaging online and going on social media breaks all the time, and Vivzie can still only match her presence and followers, i.e. the popularity of a "failed" Disney show that was cancelled prematurely + +>Dana has four times the amount of content as Vivienne because she is working with Disney budget and pipeline. And yet, Vivienne's products have been getting more attention over time through simple word-of-mouth and actually hitting her target audience while Dana has not. +Again not true, whenever TOH's insane online engagement (#1 on YouTube trending, frequent 300k+ tweets trending etc) gets brought up it gets "shut down" by saying online engagement doesn't matter, but Vivzie's worse numbers are now supposedly indicative of her superior success +--- 136750591 +Because obviously anime is superior. Even if American children watch these, nobody watches shows like this outside of the US or Anglosphere. Which isn't good business for a global mega corp like Disney. +--- 136750623 +>>136750471 +>Not sure since The Ghost and Molly McGee is hitting good numbers and seems to be going strong on both cable and streaming. +Is it? I'm already hearing rumors that the show is ending on its second season despite the showrunners making their intentions clear about wanting the show to continue on for way more. +--- 136750624 +>>136750591 +Maybe they could run it in China or Russia if they didn't make gay children. +--- 136750659 +>>136747249 (OP) +>WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU MEAN THE UNDERAGE LESBIAN SHOW GOT CANCELLED? +--- 136750664 +>>136747249 (OP) +Kids still like cartoons. Look at Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel, OddOnesOut, JaidenAnimations... ect. + +Disney is just weird with their TV animation and always has been post-2000. They hold them to high audience rating standards they really can't meet, because how audiences engage with animation now has changed, and ignore more relevant ratings such as YouTube views and social media trends. They also kind of refuse to support their shows in the short-term or long-term. They don't like to advertise them and they don't like continuing longer than 3 seasons. So by the time an audience does catch on it's already ending. It also doesn't help they don't produce merch for these shows which help increase its profit pool and increase visibility. + +And post-cancellation it gets worse as Disney then ignores the show has ever happened, insuring an audience never shows up after the fact. +--- 136750697 +>>136747249 (OP) +>disney execs the whole time +--- 136750721 +>>136750354 +>Dana has four times the amount of content as Vivienne because she is working with Disney budget and pipeline. +Does it? I know Viv won’t have to worry about executives taking their cut or whatever, but considering she has her own animation team and hires celebrities like Norman Reedus, I can’t imagine production costs for either show being that different. +--- 136750746 +>>136750664 +>Kids still like cartoons. Look at Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel + +aren't those shows "not for kids"? +--- 136750756 +>>136750547 +>Actually Disney is trying to bury it by never promoting it or rerunning it ever since it got cancelled +$10,000 spent on marketing is still more than Helluva Boss running on $0. + +>But it's not, not only does TOH get more views total +TOH has hours more worth of content and the ratio of episodes-to-views is significantly lower compared to Helluva. If TOH totaled at 225 million views across 40 half-hour episodes, that is still worse than Helluva getting 190 million views across 8 SHORT episodes. + +>Vivienne spent... Dana spent... +Vivienne used music videos as a boost to her career. Dana used Disney as a boost to her career. How they both got to nearly 800k followers is irrelevant because at the end of the day, they're are totaling nearly the same amount of people. And yet, when one of them puts out animated content, it is vastly more popular than the other. Vivienne uploads Helluva on its own dedicated channel for people following it specifically for that show. Dana has the benefit of reaching not only her own audience, but any Disney YT subscribers when TOH's finale gets uploaded. And yet, her content still does worse by comparison. + +>#1 on YouTube trending, frequent 300k+ tweets trending etc +If trends mattered, Morbius would not have flopped on re-release. The trends are short term. An individual can capitalize on trends, but a company cannot. They have tried and they have failed in the past. What matters for corporations are longer term results. TOH does NOT see longer term results. If they did, the first episode would not have capped at 9 mil views the years ago. It would have gradually accumulated fans and should be at around 15 - 20 mil by now if it was truly "popular". +--- 136750811 +>>136750286 +The irony with most forced-representation is that by constantly calling attention to the shit you're claiming to be trying to normalize, it makes it less normal. +--- 136750815 +>>136750664 +>Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel +target audience is confused adult people from tumblr +>OddOnesOut, JaidenAnimations +retarded teens and women that click randomly + +Next you are going to tell me that my story animated is loved by kids and not women in their 20ies +--- 136750828 +>>136750591 +animes are cartoons though +--- 136750834 +>>136750664 +>muh youtube views +>muh social media buzz +>muh merch +Moron, cartoons become successful when the network can show any episode at any time of the day, and only episodic shows can do that. +--- 136750848 +>>136750834 +TV is dead dumbass +--- 136750856 +>>136750591 +>anime is superior +cool it with the anti________. +--- 136750857 +>>136750223 +>and it does great on all of them +>and then it gets 5-6 million views on YouTube in a week anyway +I'm skeptical of arguments about TOH's popularity based on streaming stats, for the fact there was a public call by fans of TOH to save this show by leaving it on repeat. Youtube view counts are not unique. +That's not to imply that fans were trying to game the system. Generally speaking, the value of kids shows relies heavily on rewatchability. But views alone do not convert to profit, and this goes doubly so when the show's audience does not match the expected audience for the time slot. +This is why first-run premiere numbers still matter more. Based on those, TOH isn't any more popular than similar shows. It simply appeals to a certain obsessive viewership who inflate all engagement-based data because they won't stop talking about it. +--- 136750874 +>>136750848 +Episodic cartoons beat serial loreshit on streaming by a WIDE FUCKING margin, dumbass. +--- 136750886 +>>136747249 (OP) +It's not only kids, it's the male audience in general that doesn't care about female main leads and dykes +>inb4 b-but me love les- +Only in porn, they jerk off for 10 mins and then move on, they will never truly care about them +--- 136750898 +>>136750828 +>animes +--- 136750996 +>>136749376 +>Your 11 year old niece is looking for sex +>reddit spacing +found the groomer +--- 136751058 +>>136750874 +>Episodic cartoons +episidic cartoons are the main reason why cartoons suck compared to anime, they don't have a plot or hook that can keep you engaged for long. for example I love gumball or simpsons, but I don't look forward to "what could happen next", they are fun for those 20 mins and that's all (yes you have some small storylines but nothing really relevant if you start seeing it from ep 1 or ep 20). Instead when I watched shit like dragonball or naruto you constantly think about "what will happen next" "what a twist" "it was like that!", is an actual story, that you look forward to follow. With episodic you can't build great or "deep" storylines. +But I agree with you that episodic is better for tv networks since they can spam episodes without needing to follow the correct order +--- 136751067 +>>136750481 +--- 136751079 +>>136750857 +>This is why first-run premiere numbers still matter more. Based on those, TOH isn't any more popular than similar shows +It is + +>>136750874 +see >>136747452 +--- 136751133 +>>136751058 +And then you miss one episode and has no idea what the fuck is going on. +--- 136751159 +>>136751058 +>episidic cartoons are the main reason why cartoons suck compared to anime +LMAO, episodic cartoons were more popular than serialized anime trash for a long fucking time. It's only when the west tried imitating anime that animation went to shit. +>>136751133 +THIS. This so fucking much, there's no reason for a kid to watch a show they can't follow when they miss just ONE fucking episode. +--- 136751215 +Serialized animation is one of the most retarded concepts in entertainment to be brutally honest. +--- 136751219 +>>136750435 +>Le FoRtNiTe +Rent-free, boomer. Fortnite still manages to make the Internet seethe 6 years later. +--- 136751224 +>>136751215 +There's room enough for both kinds of stories. +--- 136751257 +>>136751224 +And only one makes money, guess which. If I were a TV executive, I wouldn't give any serialized cartoon a fucking chance. +--- 136751285 +>>136751257 +Yeah all the flagship live action shows like Stranger Things, House of the Dragon, etc are episodic because serialized stories simply don't make money +--- 136751291 +>>136751257 +There are plenty of successful serialized shows. +--- 136751294 +>>136751215 +Yes, because it forces the story to change its winning formula. Serialized animations rarely get better. They only get worse until the decision comes to put them down. +--- 136751319 +>>136751285 +Don't change the subject, retard. This is /co/ CARTOONS and Comics. +--- 136751370 +It's quite hilarious that lorefags can't provide any convincing argument that serialization is better. Kids hate it. Networks hate it. +--- 136751385 +>>136751215 +>>136751370 +Avatar was incredibly popular, wasn’t it? +--- 136751410 +>>136751319 +You just need to explain what makes serialization not profitable when animated +--- 136751448 +>>136749116 +I think this is the key to the Owl House falling short of its full potential; not just Dana's failure to run a tight ship, but her toxic attitude and continual shittalking about Disney online (including insulting the Nine Old Men) mostly destroyed any trust the company had with her +--- 136751451 +>>136751410 +Read the thread, dumbass. Serialized shows can't be re-run at any time like episodic cartoons and that's what matters. Do you lorefaggots seriously believe you know more about this business than the TV networks themselves? +--- 136751455 +>>136751370 +>Kids hate it. +Wrong. They don't want it for every show, but there are a lot of popular serialized shows. +--- 136751464 +>>136751451 +Even episodic shows have their shows rerun in broadcast order these days. +--- 136751490 +>>136751455 +>there are a lot of popular serialized shows +their popularity is a tiny fraction of the kids who would rather watch episodic shows, the demographic for loreshit isn't even children for crying out loud. +--- 136751521 +>>136751451 +And how is that different from live action serialized show vs episodic sitcoms, you can't rerun GoT either +--- 136751526 +>>136751159 +>when the west tried imitating anime that animation went to shit. +because they are unable to +>>136751133 +>>136751159 +maybe don't miss a fucking episode? if you engaged in something then you don't want to miss them. Is like saying that tv shows are shit because they have a plotline that spans over a dozen episodes. If you aren't a toddler I think that you are capable enough to follow a story. +Episodic is the definition of goyslop, something that you consume everywhere at any time, and can't expect much of it +--- 136751579 +>>136751526 +>maybe don't miss a fucking episode? +lmao what kind of patronizing garbage is this? Not everybody has time for TV +>Episodic is the definition of goyslop +kek my fucking sides, you're not even making sense anymore. you're really calling even cartoons the golden age "goyslop", huh? +--- 136751649 +>>136751526 +Listen, I can just catch up with missed shit on internet, or watch the show on internet, but that's not what TV companies want is it? +--- 136751717 +>>136751490 +Overall both do fine. Of course shows where kids aren't the target demographic aren't popular with kids. +--- 136751826 +>>136748380 +I think it was mostly for Finnick +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-roBJBLp1I [Embed] +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCgw_Zt-GXs [Embed] +--- 136751835 +>>136751579 +>>136751649 +>he cares about companies +you guys lost the thread of what I said, I said that yes having episodic trash is good since tv networks could spam them easily, but my point is that cartoons by being episodic is one of the main reasons why they suck compared to anime. The episodic format is limited on it's storytelling capabilities and inferior. Moreover one of the main reasons why cartoons are still considered for dumb kids even if they try to appeal to a more adult audience. +>you're not even making sense anymore. +what is that you don't get? Episodic is easy to massproduce, beep beep escaped the coyote for the 1234# time his acme trap failed. Tom escaped jerry for the 1359# time he so smart. Same dynamic and plot reused thousands of times, if this isn't the definition of slop idk what it is. +--- 136751858 +funny how the death of big box media productions is a real contentious subject to people who won't make a dollar from it anyways +--- 136751893 +>>136751835 +>beep beep escaped the coyote for the 1234# time his acme trap failed. Tom escaped jerry for the 1359# time he so smart. +And they're still 100x better than your tranime and wannabe tranime garbage. Go East vs. West somewhere else, you moron. +--- 136751949 +>>136751219 +But I like Fortnite. +You silly goose. +--- 136751951 +Kids don't want to watch realistic bullshit in weird scenarios. Kids want to watch weird bullshit in realistic scenarios. Just look at Recess, the show was just kids at recess hanging out but then you had shit like a sticker based economy or the digger bros creating a massive tunnel network. + +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7WPeUpcBlg [Embed] +--- 136751995 +>>136751893 +I accept you concession slop lover +--- 136752047 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because all the competition for cartoons (video games, anime, streaming) have become more and more accessible while cartoons have only become less accessible as television flags as a medium and streaming services just serve to fragment the audience. On top of that, cartoons have always had a weak business model and high production costs. Toy sales have become an incredibly unreliable monetization method but the cartoon studios don't seem to know what else to do. They can't adapt their business model to the changing times. And that's just another symptom of cartoon studios being out of touch in general, which is probably the core of the issue. +--- 136752081 +>>136747249 (OP) +It was cut short due to Covid, I assume. I'm sure that shitty exec would have loved to cancel Amphibia as well based on their reaction to season 2's finale, but luckily the Amphibia team was much farther along in the production than Owl House, who sounds like they were still in the writing stages of their season 3. +--- 136752280 +>>136750857 +>Youtube view counts are not unique. +Neither are D+ view counts, and every animated show that's supposedly performing better than TOH on D+ is baby stuff parents leave on repeat, and Simpsons manchildren leave on repeat +--- 136752513 +>>136750756 +>If TOH totaled at 225 million views across 40 half-hour episodes, that is still worse than Helluva getting 190 million views +You have to pay to watch TOH and it still probably has way more total views than Helluva Boss, but we don't have access to the various legal streaming sites' info to know for sure, but paid views are definitely better than free ones + +>How they both got to nearly 800k followers is irrelevant +Actually it's very relevant, if a webcomic writer spent every hour of their decade long career trying to boost their online presence and gather followers through trend chasing, gaming the system etc, and got outperformed or matched in engagement by someone like Togashi by simply signing up for Twitter on his first day with a random username and zero official fanfare, then the webcomic writer performed relatively worse (way more effort for the same result) + +>benefit of reaching not only her own audience, but any Disney YT subscribers +Not really, Disney Channel YT subscribers are likely small kids and their normalfag parents, neither of which would be enticed by hour long season 3 episodes of a YA show they lack context for + +>when TOH's finale gets uploaded +This started only recently (~6 months ago) whereas Vivzie has had 10 years to get her audience used to the fact her content premieres and is hosted exclusively on her channel + +>her content still does worse by comparison +It actually does about the same on YT despite being available in tons of other places beforehand + +>If trends mattered +You're the one that brought up Vivzie's online engagement as a sign of success, not me + +>TOH does NOT see longer term results +Because it was cancelled prematurely + +>the first episode would not have capped at 9 mil views +TOH in full is available in tons of places paid and the pilot being available on YT is not exactly common knowledge, it got buried under hundreds of other Disney videos almost instantly whereas Viv's channel hosts only her curated videos +--- 136752558 +>>136751951 +Craig of the Creek is accused of being a Recess knockoff all the time yet it's performing badly +--- 136752590 +>>136751451 +>Do you lorefaggots seriously believe you know more about this business than the TV networks themselves? +Yes but not because I think highly of my business knowledge but because TV networks and their execs are notoriously ridiculously stupid and incompetent, a dolphin with opposable thumbs could probably run Nick better than whoever's been running it for the last 20 years +--- 136752677 +>>136749693 +Hirsch didn't earn her of ANYTHING. + +Owl House only happened because she was fucking Hirsch and the two thinking they could get away with an overtly satanic and openly gay kids show on account them thinking Disney would let Dana do whatever she wanted in hopes if they did, Hirsch MIGHT JUST MIGHT come back and make more Gravity Falls. +--- 136752680 +>>136752280 +Well, streamers like D+ and Netflix don't release view counts, they release minutes viewed. But yeah, it's easy to inflate those stats. +No matter what these fans do, Disney and Netflix both know the true number of unique accounts watching these shows. So these campaigns to artificially inflate view time have little to no effect on their decision-making. It just wastes their bandwidth. +--- 136752697 +>>136751451 +if that was a problem why is anime so profitable even on tv? +--- 136752747 +>>136752680 +And yet episodic and/or baby stuff like Bluey, Spidey, Big City Greens etc is constantly paraded as far more successful than TOH on D+, despite being something parents leave on repeat for their toddlers all day which inflates their views like all the baby stuff on YouTube +--- 136752773 +>>136751490 +you do realize you can take advantage of both markets, right? +american industry is fucked because they only care about the highest grossing shit, so when that falls out of style they are fucked for a bit. Look at vidya, pretty much every western company is being bought or looking to get bought because they only offer one flavor and even normalfags got tired of that. +american companies only care about short term gain and constantly chasing the golden goose, which is why the get completely raped by japanese entertainment, since they at least understand the concept of long term growth +--- 136752805 +>>136752773 +But beware, anime call fall into filler hell as well +--- 136752917 +>>136752558 +Craig of the Creek is realistic bullshit in realistic scenarios so everyone hates it. +--- 136752949 +>>136752805 +there's also plenty of episodic animes, yes. that is my point. You can have both and increase market reach +--- 136752955 +>>136752747 +>despite being something parents leave on repeat for their toddlers all day which inflates their views +Yes, and I acknowledged this earlier. >>136750857 +This is why networks view these shows in terms of demos and categories, and why TOH not fitting what it's supposed to be was such a problem. Disney knows that as a category, they need those toddler shows because parents count on them to entertain their babies for long stretches. They also know how many unique accounts use them. It's not like Disney is paying more to these shows based on hours watched. +Something like TOH, when it gets expensive and also doesn't really fit its intended demo, suddenly has to justify itself independently. They can't convert views to profit, so what these fans are doing isn't going to get them the result they want. +--- 136752964 +Honestly, looking at the current offerings for cartoons, I'm not surprised that they don't appeal to kids. +Cartoons have the same issue they had when I was in middle school, where the tween demographic wants to feel more mature, so they gravitate towards more mature media. +Back in the 80s this meant sneaking into movies like Robocop. In the 90s and early 2000s this meant staying up late to watch late night channels and commercials without your parents noticing. In the mid-late 2000s this meant sneaking on the family computer or the living room TV to watch anime aimed at adults. Today it means spending more time on TikTok watching grown adults embarrass themselves in between watching streamers swear at each other and watching anime. +--- 136752978 +>>136749057 +>after 20 days it only had 5M viewers, on a channel with 7M subscribers. +This is unironically really good, especially for some random season teaser. If you think the other Anons are retarded, you better show me other shows getting consistently higher views. Pro tip: you can't. +--- 136753030 +>>136750510 +RWBY is 10 years old and had an inbuilt online fanbase from Rooster Teeth, it has ~35 videos with more than 1M views, ~20 are decade old trailers, reviews, intros etc with more than 3M views and then the rest is below that, TOH has ~70 videos with 1M views all from the last year or two. +--- 136753074 +>>136753030 +*TOH has ~70 videos with 1M or more views , 30 of those are 2M+ +--- 136753124 +>>136752677 +I'm not sure for how long Luke can repeat this rumor but Alex was long gone from Disney when TOH got greenlit, I'm pretty sure he already badmouthed them online by that point too +--- 136753165 +>>136749699 +>not gooktoons +Explain the influx of teen zoomers on twitter that talk non-stop about anime then +--- 136753212 +Anything that turns into yurishit is destined to tank +This is why no one touches/talks about later tomoko +Just saying +--- 136753267 +>>136752955 +>TOH has inflated views because fans rally behind it +>this is why it's being cancelled despite seemingly performing well +>baby shows have inflated views because they're always on repeat +>they are being renewed endlessly anyway because.. +I'm not saying you claimed this but this is an often parroted argument on here + +>They can't convert views to profit +They could, if they actually renewed and advertised the shows and put them on D+ first like they're doing with other shows right now, serialized shows are great for streaming because people will renew their subscriptions to see what happens next, imagine if their MCU shows or What If premiered on TV and how they would convert those views to profit, they wouldn't because they don't have a pipeline for it on TV, yet they forced TOH and Amphibia to premiere on cable anyway which is dead compared to 10 years ago and GF's heyday +--- 136753271 +>>136753212 +I really do miss when she was one of us +--- 136753391 +This bitch would have suicided if she had been treated half as bad as Matt Danner's show. +--- 136753481 +>>136752955 +>doesn't really fit its intended demo +Demos only matter on TV where you're selling targeted ad slots based on demographic age, it's irrelevant for streaming unless the platform is specifically looking to expand on a certain demo with a show but either way if people are subscribing to watch it in good numbers they don't have to care. Whether Bluey is being watched by 1 million adults or 1 million toddlers, it's all the same to Disney's pockets. +--- 136753600 +>>136747249 (OP) +For as much shit it gets this at least was made with kids in mind instead of gay depressed teenagers, actually that's probably why it got a lot of hate. +--- 136753602 +>>136752773 +>constantly chasing the golden goose, which is why the get completely raped by japanese entertainment, since they at least understand the concept of long term growth +Actually the japs are doing this to maintain the local monopoly +--- 136753771 +>>136753267 +>this is an often parroted argument on here +It's missing context, but they're fundamentally right. Baby shows keep getting renewed because as a category, it brings in subscribers. TOH gets cancelled because its views don't necessarily bring in subscribers in Disney's view. On top of that, there's this entire missing discussion about cost. What is the cost per unique view for TOH? It's probably several factors higher than Bluey. +The thing that shouldn't be done is comparing streaming views between these shows. Plainly, not all views are the same, because viewing patterns of different demos aren't the same, and the value of those demos aren't the same. +>They could, if they actually renewed and advertised the shows and put them on D+ first like they're doing with other shows right now +Well, as a whole, Disney+ does not make a profit. And that's not really what I meant about converting views to profit. It's more about how Disney can monetize this particular audience. +One can blame Disney for failing to properly monetize TOH, but expecting a company to change its modus operandi for this one show because it doesn't fit with existing plans is somewhat unreasonable as well. +--- 136753853 +>>136753481 +>it's irrelevant for streaming +It's not irrelevant to streaming because they know who typically pays for the service. If most subscribers are parents with tiny children, then they need to apportion their budget appropriately. +Going back to TOH. Because Disney needs to set appropriate budget to various types of content, TOH not fitting its intended demo is a problem because it's taking money away from what should be kids shows, while possibly not performing as well as programming targeted specifically at whatever audience TOH ended up with. +--- 136753879 +>>136752773 +American companies are undergoing a crisis of poor corporate governance because narrow minded investors keep bringing in job hopping MBAs who wheel in, pump up short term profits, and then jump ship to another company before the long-term consequences come to roost. This is a lucrative style of business for investors and executives, but harmful for consumers and employees. +--- 136753898 +>>136749699 +You really live under a rock +--- 136753936 +>>136753898 +That's most of /co/ honestly. +It's kind of crazy how out-of-touch this board is when it comes to what people actually like outside of this board. +--- 136753985 +>>136753600 +>gay depressed teenager +Bro the original was your run of the mill somewhat light hearted and serious at times action cartoon that was pleasant for all ages. I'm guessing you might think TMNT 2003 might be too edgy for kids of today too? +--- 136754017 +>>136753985 +Anon, I think he's talking about stuff like TOH when he refers to something for gay depressed teenagers. +--- 136754133 +>>136747249 (OP) +I always was saying, throughout the life of the show, it's not worth selling your baby to Disney in the hopes that this time they'll raise it right. +It's just not worth it. It wouldn't have been as flashy, we wouldn't have gotten any sakuga like the grom night dancefight or anything, but if Dana had made it herself she wouldn't have had those restrictions. +And maybe some of those restrictions were helpful! Maybe she would have made some things slightly worse. Maybe she needed some Disney-hired writers to help iron some things out. But it would have been hers, she would have been able to make whatever she wanted with it, and she'd still own the rights. +Because that's the worst part: Disney isn't going to touch this IP ever again, because of the stink of disobedience. Disney said 'hey, no gay' and Dana said 'fuck you we all want the gay', and she was right, and it was good, but now we're never ever going to see any new content from The Owl House ever again, full stop. The only thing we might get is some kind of short-run comic or something, and they'll make it without Dana, same as they're doing with Gravity Falls. +Folks, don't sell your baby to a demon. +--- 136754241 +>>136754133 +>Because that's the worst part: Disney isn't going to touch this IP ever again, because of the stink of disobedience. +DTVA abandons everything regardless of success or obedience + +>Disney said 'hey, no gay' and Dana said 'fuck you we all want the gay' +Dana said that's not the reason +--- 136754265 +>>136754241 +Dana said that's not the reason because presumably she would like to continue getting paid. +--- 136754317 +>>136754265 +Disney fucked their status in Florida to stand with the gays, I really think that's not the reason +--- 136754332 +>>136747726 +Big City Green Bros... +Not like this +--- 136754374 +>>136754017 +Sorry, my apologies then. I think the biggest difference with lorestuff from back then (Teen Titans/Superman Cartoon/KND/etc) to now mostly has to do with setup and writing. At least stories then felt interesting and more conclusive even if they never pick up on some plot points where they left off creating plotholes. Those shows I've listed also have just as interesting episodic episodes as their lore/serialized ones do; if someone ever points out boring filler when it comes with having "fun" episodic episodes in these modern lore shows, just know half of their format is probably insipid like watching paint dry and need loreshit to signify as the dangling carrot of interest to keep audiences engaged. +--- 136754431 +>>136747561 +Kids love loreshit when it's done well, ToH and other loreshit western cartoons don't catch on because they don't have the cool visuals or any real stakes. No one expects any real long term consequences or impactful deaths from these shows. They'd rather just put on anime. +--- 136754511 +>>136750435 +Surprised they haven't done a Fortnite tv cartoon yet +Too offput by the guns I guess +--- 136755094 +>>136751385 +Not nearly as popular as its fags try to make it out to be. It had good ratings but couldn't compare to juggernauts like SpongeBob and FOP and was a HUGE flop merchandise wise which is why I always believe Nick hated it. +--- 136755412 +>>136747320 +I have a 10 year old sister +She would rather read books than watch cartoons lol +If she ever watches a cartoon, it's an older one like Fairly Odd Parents +--- 136755643 +>>136755412 +>an older one like Fairly Odd Parents +ok zoomer. +--- 136755712 +>>136747249 (OP) +zero action / adventure shows with competent and heroic straight white male leads +only shows with black or female mary sues and negative depictions of white men and boys to push a far left agenda. +--- 136755793 +>>136747249 (OP) +idk about modern cartoons but gen z totally grew up with Gravity Falls, Adventire Time, Steven Universe, Regular Show, Gumball, and other shit, i sorta had a feeling this would happen even when i was like 12, younger zoomers are only going to be interested in minecraft videos and shounen anime, watching cartoons on TV is kind of foreign now unless you still like cartoons as an adult, at least from what i've seen i do know zoomies who are kinda nostalgic for cartoons but like early 2010s stuff +--- 136755881 +>>136753771 +>Baby shows keep getting renewed because as a category, it brings in subscribers. TOH gets cancelled because its views don't necessarily bring in subscribers in Disney's view. +We don't actually know that, we can only speculate, shows are greenlit and cancelled for all sorts of dumb reasons all the time + +>On top of that, there's this entire missing discussion about cost. What is the cost per unique view for TOH? It's probably several factors higher than Bluey. +I'm fairly sure most animated shows on a network cost roughly the same regardless of the final result + +>Well, as a whole, Disney+ does not make a profit. +That doesn't stop them from making content for it year round so this shouldn't be the exception + +>but expecting a company to change its modus operandi for this one show because it doesn't fit with existing plans +They already monetize their serialized/YA/animated Marvel and Star Wars properties through tons of merch and other avenues, they just refuse to do the same for anything that's not Marvel or Star Wars for some reason +--- 136755930 +>>136755094 +Avatar was goddamn huge when it hit streaming +--- 136755972 +>>136754431 +>shonen anime +>has real stakes +LMAO +--- 136755986 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because they're boring shit now. Show kids some 90s cartoons and they get excited. +--- 136756040 +>>136751058 +>episidic cartoons are the main reason why cartoons suck compared to anime, + +The longest running anime are episodic comedies. Even the creator of Spy x Family admitted the only reason why he made it was because an episodic comedy is more appealing to general audiences than the emo shit weebs prop up online +--- 136756041 +>>136753853 +But again, if they hoped to get 100k subscribers with the baby show, and got 100k+ of YA audience, it's by no means a failure, the way it would be if they set aside morning ad slots on the TV channel for kids toys ads but the shows drew in only adults like CN for example currently does. +--- 136756104 +They can't compete against twitch streamers and sociopathic e-celebs +--- 136756251 +>>136754431 +>Kids love loreshit when it's done well + +No they dont. Big City Greens is more appealing to kids than loreshit cartoons. +--- 136756295 +>>136749552 +>Women generally don't give a crap about cartoons, comics or videogames. + +women like these things, but are commonly more neurotic and insecure than men so when adulthood rolls around, they tend to like the things society tells them to like. +--- 136756333 +>>136749606 +>old good new bad +>cherrypicking + +yawn +--- 136756466 +>>136752513 +>but paid views are definitely better than free ones +>But then he brings up online trending as evidence for its popularity + +??? +--- 136756478 +>>136756466 +>>>You're the one that brought up Vivzie's online engagement as a sign of success, not me +--- 136756498 +>>136749766 +>>136750996 +Welcome to what marketers realized 90 years ago. +--- 136756524 +>>136751215 +Anime taking over the world and dumbass cartoonfags talking shit. +--- 136756623 +>>136756478 +Because the creators online engage can directly translate to how many people will show potential interest and become a fan in their product. Dana is backed by Disney numbers as well as her own. Disney uploads TOH to their YT channel where people are subbed for more than just TOH, so Dana gets her own fans + outsiders to potentially have the episodes show up on their recommended. Vivienne's fanbases come exclusively via word-of-mouth over the course of a decade of building a fanbase. She wasn't backed by Kesha, she just made a music video animated to her song. Lots of original AMVs exist that go nowhere and do nothing for the person. + +Despite them being getting to their follower counts in different ways with different methods, they both ended up with roughly the same amount. And yet, one person has much more dedicated fans than the other. If TOH was truly as popular as Helluva Boss or Hazbin Hotel, the 3-part finale would already be in the 15mil each. Not sitting at 7 - 9 mil. That's why these are not good numbers when you consider how much more is going into TOH compared to Helluva, and Helluva is getting four times the better result. +--- 136757309 +>>136747249 (OP) +>"Didn't fit the brand" +>Meanwhile, shows like Big City Greens and Kiff do well on Disney because they're kiddie comedies + +I mean... Maybe Disney was right? Is that really so crazy? +--- 136757324 +>>136747249 (OP) +It's the means of distribution. Pre-recorded broadcast is obsolete technology. +--- 136757344 +>>136757309 +>Big City Greens and Kiff do well on Disney +They don't +--- 136757433 +>>136753212 +But the new Gundam is yurishit and that's doing very well +--- 136757473 +>>136757433 +It was, until Oshi no Kino hit the scene and started bodying it. +--- 136757521 +>>136757344 +BCG would not be getting as many season orders and specials as it does if it wasn't doing well. I think you think that "doing well" means "big hit" when all it means is "doing well". +--- 136757539 +>>136757521 +But it's doing terribly +--- 136757557 +>>136757539 +Source? +--- 136757589 +>>136757557 +https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Big_City_Greens_episodes +Look at the ratings on the right, they're 1/4 of what they used to be and falling +--- 136757656 +>>136757589 +Now give me the numbers for Disney+. +--- 136757678 +>>136757656 +None exist +--- 136757788 +>>136757678 +Then you can't say for certain that it's doing poorly. Disney does not have a track record of continuing to financially back a show if it's doing terribly. If it's not getting TV numbers, then it must be getting numbers from elsewhere, possibly Disney+ or other streaming services. There's also the foreign market to look at since overseas TV numbers DO still exist. That's part of why nuPPG went on for so long: It was actually doing decently at CNMexico. +--- 136757838 +>>136757788 +>Disney does not have a track record of continuing to financially back a show if it's doing terribly. +That's not true +--- 136757903 +>>136757838 +How many shows did they keep going past 2 or 3 seasons and give specials to that were losing them money? +--- 136757907 +>>136755881 +>We don't actually know that, we can only speculate +We're all free to speculate. No one really knows what the unique audience for TOH is, yet the streaming numbers keep being brought up. +We only know one thing for sure: TOH got its third season cut short. Now, Disney has made its share of dumb decisions lately, but at a bare minimum, is it an irrational company that would cut a successful show for no good reason? Is that what you believe? +>I'm fairly sure most animated shows on a network cost roughly the same regardless of the final result +They are budgeted roughly the same, but that does not mean they cost the same at the end. TOH notably had delays. Delays costs money. +>they just refuse to do the same for anything that's not Marvel or Star Wars for some reason +Well, you're also speculating by assuming that TOH would be worth merchandising. It just goes back to the original quandary, the rather unknowable actual size of the TOH fandom and whether Disney is fundamentally a sane business. +>>136756041 +>if they hoped to get 100k subscribers with the baby show, and got 100k+ of YA audience, it's by no means a failure +It shouldn't be, an I understand why this is frustrating to people. I'm just explaining why demos matter from a content mix perspective. +At some point, a breakout show can be so popular that it should offset any demo-related concerns, right? That just points back to TOH not being as popular as its youtube views and social media engagement suggests. +--- 136757972 +>>136748059 +>>136748084 +>>136748178 +it's been established for a long time that the consensus, among women, is that the single most sexually appealing look is "disheveled drug dealer". +--- 136758369 +>>136747901 +Whos my target audience /co/? +>only girls +>have superpowers, full gore/violence in action +>suits with skirts outfits +>comedy based, every girl is an idiot in some way +>no lesbians +--- 136758657 +>>136758369 +coomers and ryonafags +--- 136758790 +>>136758369 +The "people who legitimately believed Sailor Uranus and Sailor Neptune were cousins" audience. +--- 136758808 +>>136758657 +>>136758790 +I think as long as I can attract enough coomers it will be worth it then. +--- 136759128 +>>136757907 +>is it an irrational company that would cut a successful show for no good reason +Sure, why not, industry execs make a lot of retarded decisions so this wouldn't be surprising, it was Nick execs who passed up on Adventure Time, Disney execs who had to be strongarmed into renewing Kim Possible past 65 episodes, who made up the 65 episode rule in the first place, who thought people would want to buy Rey toys, or want to watch Moon Girl, or shelved the Three Caballeros, CN execs who thought people would want to watch live action shit or Steven Universe in bomb format etc. + +Alex Hirsch initially said ending GF was his idea but his recent complaints indicate that he wanted to do a movie or a game that Disney wouldn't give him etc. Just an incredible amount of stupid shit comes from these people. + +>Delays costs money +Exec-caused delays, who chickened out and wanted the turn the show into something different than was greenlit, same happened to Amphibia but before any production started. + +>you're also speculating by assuming that TOH would be worth merchandising +And you are speculating by assuming it wouldn't, I'm saying they wouldn't even try to test the waters, you're saying it's fine they didn't because the merch might not have sold which is inane. GF was huge and it didn't get merch past some safe books and comics. + +>the rather unknowable actual size of the TOH fandom +We know for a fact Amphibia was smaller than both GF and TOH and it got a full three seasons and its journal still sold so well Matt was asking fans whether they'd potentially want a comic or an artbook next. TOH got better TV ratings, more views on its episodes on YT, more and better ratings on IMDB, trends often with tons of tweets, has a 3x larger subreddit, caused a stampede at Pixelatl, etc which are objectively indicators of a larger fandom than Amphibia's, yet it was still cut short and won't get supplemental material. + +>Disney is fundamentally a sane business +I seriously doubt it is +--- 136759184 +>>136750268 +>>0.5M TV ratings at a time when everything else is doing like this >>136747452 +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>4.5 million views in 4 days on YouTube +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>20 million views on YouTube for S3 total +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>#5 trending on Disney+ +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>320k tweets on Twitter trending +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>finale is the most watched Disney Channel telecast of the year so far +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>the #3 most in-demand series on Disney+ last December +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>8.5 rating with 15k ratings total on IMDB, 9.6 rating through 1.1k votes for the finale in 10 days +doesn't actually make any money lol +>>entered the IMDB top 100 popular shows as the only western animation except South Park and Star Wars, the only anime in top 100 are AOT and KNY +doesn't actually make any money lol +--- 136759223 +>>136757907 +It's funny that in the same post you both suggest Disney is a rational performance-based business, and that also they'd want to turn back customers and their money because they don't fit their age demo + +Guess they should've closed Disney World when it started being attended by majority childless adults because kids were the original target demo +--- 136759247 +>>136759184 +Mindbroken by facts +--- 136760049 +>>136755930 +keyword "when". +--- 136760103 +>>136759774 +That’s why Doctor who is so popular with boys world wide. You get a smart male lead. Well expect for one of the doctors. +--- 136760142 +>>136759774 +is if like Goku, i assume that people like Deku because he is strung and wins fights. +--- 136760166 +>>136760049 +Are you implying that just because it's still not that huge it's a worthless IP? Are you aware of the passage of time and its effects? Or the 3-4 live action and animated spinoff shows and movies they're making of it? +--- 136760360 +>>136751219 +if this isnt satire, it should be +--- 136760442 +>>136760166 +>Or the 3-4 live action and animated spinoff shows and movies they're making of it? +I can't wait to see how they'll fuck them up. +--- 136760607 +KIDS DON'T WATCH CARTOONS ANYMORE. If western animation (besides Europe because they don't give a fuck) wants to survive without devolving into babyshit like Cocomelon it unironically has to start pandering to teenagers and young adults (aka anime) +--- 136760629 +>>136749619 +My favorite part of the top left comic is that she's being written by a man + +A man using a woman to educate a man on what women want +--- 136760888 +>>136753271 +>one of us +>implying anon is a a literal unpopular incel +Bro sooner or later you're gonna have to go in a direction, either up or down. What direction is Watamote supposed to go in if you'd rather have the whole series be Tomoko failing at finding a boyfriend? +--- 136761308 +>>136758369 +This all depends on the fashion of the characters and what type of comedy you're using. A product doesn't need character who match the sexual orientation of the audience for the audience to be attracted to them. They merely need to be their ideal fantasy person. + +Take pic related for example. If you designed a character that looked like this and she was as straight as an arrow, you would still attract a bunch of bi and lesbian women because she is physically and fashionably "their type". + +If you have very over-the-top gorey black comedy humor like The Boys, you will attract mostly men. If you have cutesy humor like School Rumble, you'll attract more women than men. If you have sitcom-y humor like Family Guy, you'll probably get maybe 60/40 men/women. +--- 136761401 +>>136747249 (OP) +Define kids? Owlhouse was targeted towards older kids, like preteens and teens that never changed the channel +--- 136761716 +>>136753600 +It was Family Guy for kids. +--- 136761770 +>>136761401 +Yet its demographic were women in their 20s and 30s. +--- 136761913 +>>136747674 +my sister is a single childless 40 year old lesbian with 2 cats and she never shuts up about how much she loved the Owl House so you might be onto something +--- 136761959 +>>136747320 +only kids I know under 12, just talk about Pokemon, Minecraft and Roblox +--- 136762171 +>>136752047 +Not to mention how cartoons aren't as broad as said mediums. Its either trying to be Disney/John K/South Park/Simpsons/Looney Tunes/Bruce Timm/whatever trend is hot nowadays. +--- 136762276 +>>136747286 +In addition to >>136747526 I honestly believe that Dana was the one "not fitting the Disney Brand" as she was clearly constantly aiming to adults through her social media, no wonder because even her cartoon was aimed to appeal lgbt adults rather than teenagers, no surprise the designs were meant to have a certain appealing for adults as well, which is also why the R34 began milking them even before the show started! +--- 136762317 +>>136748808 +>underage lesbians +Leslolis. + +Just a lil Van Goghing, or should I say Pun Goghin? He he he +--- 136762341 +the entire american entertainment industry has spent years for a virtue signaling faggotry and yet there's barely any notable company prioritizes anything like artistic value over profits because their liberalism is shallow fake in the first place. +in this case what they did was making half-assed anime without any respect and adding more igbt stuff and then got cancelled for not making enough money. well deserved. +--- 136762362 +>>136761401 +>Believes teenagers were going to watch that shit +>>136761770 +>Believes women in their 20s were going to watch that shit. + +The right answer is trannies in their 30s and about to join the % +--- 136762411 +>>136762341 +Anon TOH mogs most anime on so many fronts it's not even funny while also somehow managing to be less gay +--- 136762486 +>>136760607 +>Anime +Dana made it clear she hated anime during her youth and I doubt much of her opinion towards the fans of that had changed, not to mention when she answered a question regarding Luz and anime she gave such shittaste answer that I doubt anyone really gave a try to what the names she mentioned. + +Fuck! I even remember her saying "luz began watching this anime, but she decided it was too mature for her, so she didn't continue". + +What kind of dreamworld does she believe a teenager will say "no man, this has too mature themes for me so I'll watch something else". + +In that contrast, was she expecting teenagers to NOT say "woah,this boring piece of shit that is fag house has gays and lesbians, they/them, I'll watch My Hero Academia instead!" +--- 136762542 +>>136761913 +She sounds like a cunt. Does she have a shaved head and yell about men being evil too? +--- 136762672 +>>136750481 +Bambi and Unikitty aren't going to same vibe though. +--- 136762813 +>>136747249 (OP) +Childhood of nowadays isn't nearly the same as that of infants of decades past. And I suppose it has to do with technological development and the extensive diversity of entertainment media besides animation (streaming, videogames, etc); in addition to the personal interests of each one. + +So it also falls on what really appeals to the infant, adolescent, young adult and those enthusiasts of animation whom were kids too. +--- 136762893 +>>136762341 +you know what is funny is that anime is so "diverse" and pro "lgbt" that is not even funny, but they do it in a way that is not in your face nor is used as a virtue signal like all those faggot cartoons and tv shows and movies. +Ffs lycoris recoil had 2 gay daddies, gundam is a lesbian story, and you have genderbend since the 1980 at least +>their liberalism is shallow fake in the first place. +and this too, like they do with racism, what they churn out is an even more racist caricature than what they are trying to virtue signal, and the same it applied to how they show fags. +For example I don't expect something like this to ever come out from a cartoon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYAgBRO-aT8 [Embed] +--- 136762946 +>>136747793 + +Kinda funny how GNC in practice is just a bland character. + +Might as well just have Gordon Freeman as the star. +--- 136763002 +>>136747249 (OP) +The problem is that this show is too adult for kiddies and too infantile for adults or even teens. +It's stuck in a limbo. +And the womanchild writers used it as terapy to their gay trauma. +--- 136763177 +>>136751526 +>>136751835 +>>136751995 + +Not everybody wants to watch a lorefilled slog with tons of backstory and "deep" themes. Some people just want to watch fun, likable characters in interesting environments and that's fine. And just because a cartoon or show is episodic doesn't mean that the dynamics can't be interesting. Hell, Tom and Jerry frequently switched up the formula and setting during the original run. Sometimes they might be in 17th century Paris in one cartoon and then be underwater sea mermaids in the next. Sometimes Tom and Jerry might team up and they have to face a greater foe like a dog or a cat who's trying to replace Tom. Sometimes the cartoon isn't even about Tom chasing Jerry at all. + + +There's more these cartoon than you think, anon. +--- 136763240 +>>136761308 +More or less this kind of style/proportions, with ASDF/Pop team epic style shorts. I do like animating fluids and such FBF hence the gore. +--- 136763760 +>>136747249 (OP) +We won +--- 136763825 +>>136747526 +>TOH being the most expensive show airing on Disney +amercan animation is a joke +--- 136763841 +>>136747608 +>Her show bottomed +--- 136763859 +Nobody cared about Luz until Aminity came into the picture, let's be real here. +--- 136763904 +>>136747649 +I hate this stupid YA-inspired word. +>You're hyperactive so that makes you this cool rebel. +--- 136763919 +>>136747249 (OP) +Grown ass men screaming at a children's game is the new cartoon +--- 136763942 +>>136763904 +Divergent is that retarded series where people are born with one emotion/tendency, right? +--- 136763957 +>>136758369 +americans +--- 136763973 +>>136763904 +As someone with Asperger's, I watched this in Cinemas because I had nothing better to do, it was stupid. +--- 136763983 +>And had bad ratings +>And had bad reviews +>And the creator couldn't deliver it on schedule +>And the creator employed mental cases +>And the creator participated in a (lunchbreak) walkout + +Even if those things weren't true, I wouldn't believe a word Dana says. +--- 136763984 +>>136747526 +Exactly it was because of faggot pandering nobody wanted to watch it +--- 136764002 +>>136749619 +Support your local transwomen athletes. Name and shame TERFs wherever you see them. If your daughter cries because. a boy beat her up make her watch Buffy. +--- 136764093 +Amphibia was superior in legitimately every single way. +--- 136764099 +>>136753600 +It got hate because it sucked and it was all CN ran for years at a time. +--- 136764303 +>>136763984 + +For those not in the know, "faggot" in this context doesn't just mean "gay". It means "obnoxious fuck that you want to punch in the face", like zoophile furries. +--- 136764832 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because they're not being made FOR kids. They're being made for liberal weirdos. Basically, the people working on the shows are making the shows for THEMSELVES and weirdos who think like them, none of them being kids. +--- 136764842 +>>136747249 (OP) +>woke propaganda +>bad designs +>unoriginal stories +>same reused CalArts beanfaces +>LGBT propaganda +Even Gen Alpha is not impressed. +--- 136764870 +>>136747249 (OP) +Kids have easier dopamine hits from youtube & video games. +--- 136764873 +>>136764832 +I hate soiboys & Tumblr dykes so much. +--- 136764896 +>>136762486 +Typical grifter then because The Owl House is just trying too hard to be a knockoff anime with it's action. +--- 136764956 +>>136762486 +The real problems is dykes control the American networks. The current problems in American animation do not exist in France, Japan, & Mexico because dykes not existent nor do they have the final say in how the shows are release. Women in the workplace are destroying the American industry. +--- 136765008 +>>136762486 +>TOH creator watched Tenchi Muyo +>Ends up hating anime +I don't understand these woketards. How the hell do you go from enjoying anime to flat out hating it later on in your adulthood? I grew up watching the anime myself as kid & it's still one of my favorite Japanese series, & I'm a guy who's in his 30s. + +Nevermind, it's because she's a retarded woman. +--- 136765053 +>>136747608 +No one wants to see lesbians make out unless they're hot. TOH characters are not hot. Simple as. +--- 136765079 +>>136747703 +Hello woman moment. +--- 136765101 +>>136765053 + +That, and the only people who'd enjoy it aee sappy romance fags and unironic pedos. +--- 136765127 +>>136747249 (OP) +Because cartoons don't have as much rape as they should +--- 136765128 +>>136747320 +>She's more entertained by wacky jocks on youtube doing parkour. +>wacky jocks doing parkour. + + +If only such a person were allowed to star in an action adventure cartoon +--- 136765166 +>>136764956 +Dykes exist in those places but are still considered worthless of taken seriously for anything. + +As a latino I've seen autistic feminazis trying to convince others that fag house is "the best show" but usually don't even have the guts to answer why the show sucks so much in it's story, the many plot holes it has and all that, they use and reuse the "you didn't watch the show, right?" Prompting the answer: Nigga, I did watch the show, and with a better understanding than you it seems, that's why I'm pointing at the bullshit it has! +--- 136765202 +>>136765008 +I don't remember if she mentioned Tenchi Muyo, I do remember her mentioning Hunter x Hunter but since I only read it like a couple of times I might be wrong! Thing is Dana sucks at everything she does, even designs are nothing but "wapanese" shit like she used to refer to in a degrading tone, saying Deviantart was plagued of those emulating (ripping off) Naruto or some other animes. +--- 136765224 +>>136747793 +Is that why on her 18s luz looks like some tranny? +--- 136765271 +>>136765114 +Good points. The girls on Ramna were definitely better looking than the girls in Tenchi. +--- 136765290 +>>136747871 +It echoes a lot to watch facebook groups related to cartoons and see the massive groups of latinos and latinas that share and loved edits of Luz making out with Marco Diaz, Edric and Hunter! Fuck it, even Amity being thrown in edits with two of those guys were praised, the same thing with they/them faggot being changed to have a male name, refered as him. + +Which by the way had some trannies and faggots in latam to be the only ones reacting because they wanted to have a "dibujo animado" calling a character "elle". +--- 136765294 +>>136747249 (OP) +today's cartoons aren't aimed at kids they are aimed at adult single women with the mental maturity of children +--- 136765306 +>>136765294 +Steven Universe was the first cartoon to make me wonder who exactly it was being made for +--- 136765317 +>>136765166 +>Dykes exist in those places but are still considered worthless of taken seriously for anything. +And that's a good thing, considering the awful character designs & NO SEXY WOMEN ALLOWED POLICY they push once they are in any positions of power in the industry. +--- 136765331 +>>136747703 +>Dana mentioned going out of her way to fight with Disney over how feminine Luz +Typical peeminist +--- 136765374 +>>136765306 +Ngl Steven Universe came out when I was a preteen who didn’t know anything about tumblr shit and I enjoyed it, basically it gave me a similar feeling as adventure time but for fans of magical girls/girly shows. +--- 136765386 +>>136747703 +Honestly this makes me mad in a werid way. +Like watching someone do a retarded challenge on Tiktok and then suffer. +But I guess that's how capitalism works if you want to be retarded and cripple yourself then you get out. +--- 136765400 +>>136750319 +This, kids nowadays need you to explain them some shit, I hate to say that "us people born in the 80s were smarter" but holy fuck! I watched Rurouni Kenshin OVAs in my teenages and I had to rewatch like a dozen times to get everything, even then I didn't understand until years later when I managed to find some articles about the Shinsengumi, the time period and all that! + +You would imagine that kids nowadays with so many hundreds of options could understand a lot faster, but they just don't care! They never care about anything, only watch and consume, even if the shit they are watching is the weirdest cringe possible. +--- 136765423 +>>136765374 +NTA and same but only for the early seasons, later Steven universe became a fucking shore and eventually I stopped watching. +I think the writers god rid of everthing that used to attract male watchers and replaced it with their personal psicological hag ups. +--- 136765425 +>>136747793 +Gnc? Gender non confirming?! She more like tomboy if anything +--- 136765441 +>>136750547 +>Actually Disney is trying to bury it by never promoting it or rerunning it ever since it got cancelled +As it should, shit that flopped right at the start and was just a blant excuse to force lgbt should be banned and people like Dana shot in the face in public execution. +--- 136765459 +>>136765306 +>Steven Universe was the first cartoon to make me wonder who exactly it was being made for +For left-leaning & normal boys and girls +No, alt-right arent main audiences +--- 136765464 +>>136762317 +Why poor Van Gogh ignored? +--- 136765465 +>>136765425 +Man, no other word has been more abused in the English language than "tomboy." +The word you're looking for is butch, she looks butch. +A tomboy doesn't need to look a certain way to be a tomboy, just have certain interests. +--- 136765475 +>>136765425 +Oh poor anon Tomboys don't exist anymore they are too attractive. +--- 136765499 +Should I just make anime if I want people to watch my animations? +--- 136765503 +>>136749699 +is that the actual quality of that anime +--- 136765513 +>>136763002 +Yeah they did, the whole "adult white male, wrong/enemy" shit felt so disgusting. +--- 136765529 +>>136765425 + +Tomboy but less fun, and as in Luz's case, her "neurodivergence" is supposed to be her "selling point", and I have a feeling this is why Disney didn't want to market her. +--- 136765544 +>>136765529 +Was she autistic or something? +--- 136765575 +>>136765503 +Yep. +Kind of retarded too because the selling poit of the manga is the cool fights abd that slide show ruins them +--- 136765576 +>>136765499 +No, because /a/ hate it because western (cyberpunk edgerunner is a exception). +And /co/ hate it because Anime-influenced Western animation +--- 136765578 +>>136747526 +you give actual reasons but people will stick to "NO IT'S CAUSE OF DA GAYS" and die on that hill because at this point it's a conditioned response, which is probably what a lot of "woke" media has been trying to do for a while now +--- 136765587 +>>136765459 +Nah, the only kids around that time I ever knew who watched SU were white kids and gay Hispanics, and those two groups are far from normal. +Normal boys watch anime, and normal girls watch live action dramas. +--- 136765594 +>>136765459 +Go back to bunkerchan, incel +--- 136765613 +>>136762486 +>Dana made it clear she hated anime during her youth +*fake anime +--- 136765638 +>>136753165 +Twitter is not a good way to gauge popularity. If it was, Spider-Verse should've made a billion dollars, but it didn't. It just did okay. That's trash for a Spider-Man film. +--- 136765639 +>>136765578 +The idea that Disney, a company that loves touting its First Gay [Blank]™ every six months and attacked the apex Florida Man over a piece of legislation that didn't affect Disney at all just because they felt the need to protect the gays would cancel something for being "too gay" is laughable + +I don't care how "in the background" their gay characters are. They do that to placate overseas audiences, not the American right wing +--- 136765653 +>>136764099 +>it was all CN ran for years at a time. +Because it was popular with kids. It was CN's Spongebob. +--- 136765694 +>>136765114 +Tenchi wasn't a real harem. It was more of a love triangle like an anime Betty and Veronica. Tenchi Universe and its movie sequels were the best ones anyway. +--- 136765695 +>>136765639 + +It sounds more and more that Disney cancelled it because Dana hasn't been exactly, "pleasant" to work with and her work isn't as popular as her fans make it out to be. +--- 136765706 +>>136764956 +>The real problems is dykes control the American networks. The current problems in American animation do not exist in France, Japan, & Mexico because dykes not existent nor do they have the final say in how the shows are release. Women in the workplace are destroying the American industry. +--- 136765712 +>>136765695 +I don't like bootlicking, but I can't imagine why these people can't be more grateful for the opportunity they're given and be more willing to play ball with the people putting up all the money + +I get it, compromising your vision sucks, but if you wanted a pure artistic expression you got in the wrong business +--- 136765735 +>>136765587 +>Korean dramas + +Your welcome, and yeah I decided to go to some local anime-con a couple of months ago and I almost threw up, leaving the place disgusted over the amount of kpop fans who pretty much ruined that kind of events, even the people that participated there were so displeased with it, but couldn't do much since those groups would pay well to keep their stands and sell products related to faggots with non-korean faces. +--- 136765752 +>>136765695 +If she really wasn't "pleasant" to work with, we should be hearing more people speaking out just like in the case of the Gravity Falls guy instead of just speculation from people who aren't even involved. +--- 136765773 +>>136765613 +Can some anon share some screenshot of her complaining about animes? + +Given her record I'm convinced she said nasty shit against it at some point of her life, or surely uploaded her own hand giving the finger to some popular anime just to feel she is special. +--- 136765777 +>>136765735 +Oh yea, girls watch lots of Korean dramas since it's the only place you can find sexy prettyboys in live action who aren't homosexuals, since America decided that any and all somewhat men who are mildly feminine must be gay. +American media is just really gay nowadays. +--- 136765778 +>>136765752 +To be fair she had extra protection for being a woman of color. +While that guy was a white male +--- 136765803 +>>136765778 +>woman of color +the color white? +--- 136765837 +>>136765803 +She might be a stealth latino +--- 136765842 +>>136765706 + +I don't think it's completely far off. See the Rivet incident with the new Ratchet and Clank game when Vissagio and her cronies did freelance work with Insomniac. +--- 136765875 +>>136765752 +Probably because the people working in the show were picked by her from tumblr? + +Wasn't there some info about that? The people that Disney chose to work with her ended up moving to other stuff before the show aired, as far as I understood because Dana wanted them out. + +I doubt execs are as stupid as Dana as to openly write "yeah she sucks, she was so irritating" in their twitter accounts! +--- 136765911 +>>136765752 +Give it some time, as pointed out, execs at disney are a lot more professionals than Dana, they are not going to be posting or saying it in interviews just yet. + +But interviewers already spilled some of those details before, I remember anons sharing some twitter post "fans don't know how alex and dana are seen in the industry" +--- 136765950 +>>136765875 +>the people working in the show were picked by her +Anon, that's what animation producers do. +--- 136766056 +>>136752081 +This +Disney got really stingy during COVID, and that was when TOH was up for its 3rd season renewal. Being too expensive and too gay for current execs were factors too, but without COVID it would've probably gotten a full season 3. +Amphibia s3 was shorter because of COVID too, but it was already far enough along to not be cut completely. +--- 136766069 +>>136756333 +wake the fuck up +--- 136766137 +>>136766056 +>too gay for current execs +This is really what killed it, execs didn't like having to devote resources just to censor the show outside America because they were cheapskates. I don't buy the whole "Dana's attitude killed it" argument because she's really just the same as Matt, at least on social media, and that dude even got a book made. +--- 136766146 +>>136765306 +i thought it was for hipsters. The same retards thar claim miyasaki is the greatest because they watched some movies as kids. +--- 136766173 +>>136766137 +>just to censor the show outside America because they were cheapskates. +No offense, but American cartoons are hardly popular in the markets that would have needed to censor this show anyways, so I doubt that's at all related. +You horribly overestimate how relevant American animation is outside of the west. +--- 136766177 +>>136765499 +is not the anime style, is the "i want to fuck this character" syndrome. +--- 136766182 +>>136766146 +his movies were good, fuck you +--- 136766221 +>>136766173 +TOH had its gay shit censored outside America, what are you talking about? You don't have to like the show but it's true. +--- 136766264 +>>136766182 +Nausicaa was his only good movie, anything after was pretentious pseud bullshit. +--- 136766266 +>>136766221 +Re-read the post anon. +The point is that if they really had to choose between not funding a 3rd season at all or just not releasing it in those markets, they would have chosen the latter, y'know, like they did with their other recent animated properties that were deemed "too gay" for those markets? +The show didn't get canned because it was too gay for markets that probably don't even bring in 5 digit viewership numbers combined for Disney. +It likely got canned because it was just generally not worth the RoI. +--- 136766309 +>>136766182 +lmao no. +>>136766264 +the manga was better. +--- 136766327 +>>136765639 +Jewney is the most subversive shit in children's entertainment I can still remember that Cory in the House crap which was diversity bullshit