Thu Apr 20 06:54:38 UTC 2023

his/14904862.txt

@@ -385,3 +385,68 @@ I’m not an expert. I just knew it couldn’t be 300 years lol
 --- 14918460
 >>14916941
 What? Don't they have a self-preservation instinct or what?
+--- 14918855
+>>14916538
+thank you, my ovine friend
+--- 14919121
+>>14917816
+it is 300 million years ago
+--- 14919174
+What are some good books to read about all this?
+--- 14919230
+>>14919174
+This>>14908248
+--- 14919235
+>>14916623
+I hate historicist 19th century paintings so much, they are so ugly and innacurate, and you find those pieces of shit everywhere.
+--- 14920294
+>>14916623
+I don't even blame him, the Plantagenet wanted to depose him, so of course he had to fight them.
+--- 14921003
+>>14916572
+>I assume you meant 3000 years ago
+Found the creationist
+--- 14921076
+>>14919235
+>innacurate
+It's not even unique to 19th century paintings. Renaissance and Medieval artists always depicted scenes from antiquity in contemporary fashions.
+--- 14921486
+>>14921076
+That's the point, medieval and renaissance artists depicted the ancients as their contemporaneans because they were innocently ignorant and the world from those stories of Antiquity, in terms of the morals and ideas or brutality conveyed, wasnt too much different from theirs. 
+Meanwhile xixth century Romantic historicist fags threw in their obnoxious pretensions and stereotypes into the painting and ended up creating abominations like all medieval kings having beards from the chin to the chest or the barbarians being naked.
+--- 14921516
+>>14909066
+Ireland and the Irish were ooga booga Iron Age tribals until they were civilized by the Norse and English
+--- 14921890
+>>14921486
+That's irrelevant, artists usually always do their own shit even if they know it would be historically incorrect. That's the reason every movie that is set in ancient times are bleak as fuck.
+--- 14921943
+>>14921486
+>depicted the ancients as their contemporaneans because they were innocently ignorant
+lol
+--- 14922118
+>>14913404
+We graze sheep on mountains now because it's cheap land with strict environmental regulations for any other commercial activity
+Other land is far too valuable for other purposes to graze sheep
+For a flat field, how much can you make selling wool vs how much will Persimmon offer to build a housing estate?
+--- 14922119
+>>14916366
+Wypipo ain't seasonin dey countryside
+--- 14922152
+>>14916538
+>*saves the wo- ACK
+--- 14922176
+>>14918460
+>Don't they have a self-preservation instinct or what?
+Yes but it doesn’t work very well
+--- 14922379
+>>14922152
+poor lamb
+--- 14923400
+>>14922152
+He sacrificed himself for us
+
+There’s a reason Jesus is called the lamb of god
+--- 14923522
+>>14916538
+It's strange how numerous these buggers are in Britain when sheep are from dry highlands. They don't like wet.

his/14908748.txt

@@ -16,8 +16,6 @@ He is right. Ossetians are confused Georgians.
 I don't care, nor did I ask
 --- 14910047
 does anyone have the webm of armenian looking ossetian girls talking about alans,aryans and being extremely racist
---- 14910367
->>14910047
 --- 14910384
 >>14910367
 
@@ -292,3 +290,38 @@ Women need to stop using filters. At least makeup used to take some effort.
 --- 14918127
 >>14917661
 Most of them wore makeup (or not actually) instead of a filter thoughever
+--- 14918970
+>>14915928
+Theres difference between selling out and being conquered by overpowered empire, also what matters is what is it today.
+--- 14918977
+>>14908748 (OP)
+OP, if i were you i would remove this thread. This thread is anything but historical apparently and nobody answered the question.
+--- 14918982
+>>14908756
+/thread
+--- 14919134
+>>14916780
+Very cool doc from a good historian. Def the most accurate one on YouTube so far and goes much deeper into their culture as well
+--- 14919137
+>>14916863
+wow i can't believe STJ killed 6000 people, why would he eat 60,000 people like that? Truly we need to ban white people
+--- 14920397
+>>14918970
+No, their nobles literally sold themselves out to the Russian empire, and they received preferential treatment. 
+They were literally the guardian dogs of the Russian empire, and today they larp as le epic eternal anti-moskal freedom fighters.
+--- 14921070
+>>14920397
+and that's a GOOD thing!
+--- 14921274
+>>14920397
+Some did just to get a good chance at avenging and fighting against more despised enemies that time (raiders from north caucasus, Turks, persians) but negative attitude never changed against empire and thats why many nobles were desposed of or deported to siberia. Crackdown was hard after plot of 1832 especially.
+--- 14921976
+>>14921274
+>plot of 1832
+What was that all about?
+--- 14923289
+>>14921976
+https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1832_Georgian_plot
+--- 14923539
+>>14912624
+i'm the guy that asked for the webm, i'm not georgian or anywhere from caucasus insane retard only thing i remembered was girls being aryans and one of them looking brown..

his/14912704.txt

@@ -129,3 +129,63 @@ You can’t tell these days.
 prove it
 --- 14918371
 I’m going to be writing my thesis on Faustina actually.
+--- 14919592
+Brrrrrrppppppppppffffffff
+BRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPP
+BRRRPP... BRRRPPPPPPP....
+FFFFFFFFFBBRRRRRRPPPFFFFFFFF
+FFFFF... FFFFF
+
+Envisage the stench.
+--- 14919752
+>>14916105
+
+>Most tolerant Thomist
+--- 14920426
+BRAAAP... brap
+
+Inspect the whiff.
+--- 14921325
+>>14912924
+>>14915173
+>>14915775
+>>14916452
+>>14916717
+>>14917593
+>>14919592
+>>14920426
+--- 14921788
+BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFF
+
+Cogitate on the effluvia.
+--- 14921803
+>>14912924
+>>14915173
+>>14915404
+>>14915775
+>>14916452
+>>14916717
+>>14917593
+>>14919592
+>>14920426
+>>14921325
+>>14921788
+You have clearly never closely smelled a woman’s fart before in your life. If you did, you wouldn’t be lusting over something so repulsive.
+--- 14921834
+>>14921803
+>You have clearly never closely smelled a woman’s fart before in your life
+
+Have you?? Ugly ones dont count.
+--- 14922238
+>>14921803
+BBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPsnnnnniiiiiiffffffffffff...oh yes my dear....sssnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff....quite pungent indeed...is that....dare I say....sssssssnniff...eggs I smell?......sniff sniff....hmmm...yes...quite so my darling....sniff....quite pungent eggs yes very much so .....ssssssssssssssnnnnnnnnnnnnnnniiiiiiiffffff....ah yes...and also....a hint of....sniff....cheese.....quite wet my dear....sniff...but of yes...this will do nicely....sniff.....please my dear....another if you please....nice a big now....BBBBBBRRRRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPFFFFFFFFLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPFFFFFF Oh yes...very good!....very sloppy and wet my dear....hmmmmm...is that a drop of nugget I see on the rim?...hmmmm.....let me.....let me just have a little taste before the sniff my darling.......hmmmmm....hmm..yes....that is a delicate bit of chocolate my dear....ah yes....let me guess...curry for dinner?....oh quite right I am....aren't I?....ok....time for sniff.....sssssnnnnnnniiiiiiiiffffffff.....hmmm...hhhmmmmm I see...yes....yes indeed as well curry......hmmm....that fragrance is quite noticeable....yes.....onion and garlic chutney I take it my dear?.....hmmmmm....yes quite.....BBBBBBRRRRRRRRPPPPPPFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTTT Oh I was not expecting that…that little gust my dear….you caught me off guard…yes…so gentle it was though…hmmmm…let me taste this little one…just one small sniff…..sniff…ah….ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffffff…and yet…so strong…yes…the odor….sniff sniff…hmmm….is that….sniff….hmmm….I can almost taste it my dear…..yes….just…sniff….a little whiff more if you please…..ssssssnnnnnniiiiiffffffffff…ah yes I have it now….yes quite….hhhhmmmm…delectable my dear…..quite exquisite yes…..I dare say…sniff….the most pungent one yet my dear….ssssnnnnniiiifffffffffffffffffffffff….yes….
+--- 14922334
+>>14922238
+Joyce moment
+--- 14922369
+This thread went from discussing Novus Ordo to discussing farts. Shit that only happens on /his/. I hate this godforsaken board.
+--- 14922505
+>>14922369
+Blame OP for baiting with a pair of beguiling buttocks. I’m glad it backfired.
+--- 14922765
+brap

his/14914194.txt

@@ -309,3 +309,78 @@ Greeks and Russians are both Orthodox in teaching, and both are highly influence
 --- 14918433
 >>14918422
 Thank you for clearing things up for me fren :D
+--- 14918515
+>>14918280
+I’m not good with branches but would you care to explain this chart and why it looks like the Oriental and Nesorian churches are first? I don’t disagree with what you are saying though, just that for some reason this chart looks as if they were first and the EO broke into different fragments (I know they are different languages though)
+--- 14918979
+>>14914194 (OP)
+>less retarded 
+how can there be gradations within the absolute retardation that is abrahamism?
+--- 14919269
+>>14914194 (OP)
+Eastern Catholicism is the way to go.
+--- 14920096
+>>14918515
+Another stupid and wrong chart.
+--- 14920269
+https://youtu.be/mDpXchPd0_c [Embed]
+--- 14920271
+>>14919269
+>Eastern Catholicism is the way to go.
+They are even more ethnicity-attached than the orthodox churches.
+--- 14920279
+Reminder that Saint Paisios prophecied the covid "vaccine" many years before covid happened and he said it would be a forerunner of the mark of the beast
+--- 14920281
+Fr. Savvas Agioritis did an exorcism on someone who became possessed by a demon after getting the covid vaccine. The demon confessed that the vaccine was created in a Masonic ritual and it has demons inside it.
+--- 14920283
+>>14920279
+>Saint Paisios 
+2 weeks until you kill 1/3rd of Turks, 2 more weeks!
+--- 14920301
+Pope Francis is an Antichrist false prophet.
+>connections with US Democratic party
+>supports homosexualism
+>praises feminism and socialism
+>supports the covid "vaccine"
+>supports the great reset and New World Order (he literally said that explicitly)
+>promotes a one world religion with Jews and Muslims
+--- 14920304
+The essence/energies distinction in Orthodoxy makes a lot more sense than the Absolute Divine Simplicity of the papists.
+--- 14920318
+It is interesting how accurate Fr. Seraphim Rose's prediction about "aliens" and "UFOs" was.
+We can see the demonic agenda in the 2016 film Arrival for example, just like he said. It's about creating a one world government.
+--- 14921496
+>>14920301
+I was still kinda an atheist when the covid shit began.
+
+Back then, a local Baptist preacher at least stood on the roof of his church to preach if the congregation was inside together.
+
+I look back through the documentation of the local Roman diocese and they had the churches closed.
+--- 14921529
+Isn't Orthodoxy just a loophole for Catholics to get married?
+--- 14921543
+>>14920281
+>there are retards who actually believe in this
+--- 14921558
+>>14921529
+No. They have a lot of theological and epistemological differences.
+--- 14921572
+>>14918410
+Russian is generally the most conservative and least pozzed.
+Greek and Antiochian are generally the most liberal and pozzed.
+But these are generalizations you understand. Fr. Peter Heers is a Greek Orthodox priest and he is very conservative.
+--- 14921643
+What's with the cosplay? Why do they play dressup?
+--- 14921745
+>>14920281
+how do they get the demons into the vaccine? funnels?
+--- 14922335
+>>14920281
+More like fr fr Savvas Agioritis amirite
+--- 14922353
+>>14914565
+Not real EO, or they would sleep with their heads towards the holiest of holies, instead of their feet.
+--- 14922420
+At least they don't believe this universe's cause died on a cross 2000 years ago
+--- 14922711
+https://www.youtube.com/live/VkY7VxOrlKU?feature=share

his/14914288.txt

@@ -297,3 +297,258 @@ its an inherently self-defeating ideology that has no real means of achieving it
 --- 14918118
 >>14918013
 Quote me from the archives
+--- 14918774
+>>14914288 (OP)
+I don't hate communism. I hate communism derived from lenin-stalin. And those that hold marx as a religious figure instead of adapting it to your country like modern day china. Ever wonder why the Soviets collapse in incompetence and China is now the world's foremost superpower? They apply marxism practically, why the soviets just used it as a ideological restraint on their people. Communism is a science that should be expanded upon given new obersvations and results. Reading marx is now no more useful than reading Lord Kelvins first papers. While useful, you would spend your time better reading text that summarize, crisize and expand on Communism and our modern world.
+
+I'm a tranny btw.
+--- 14918782
+>>14915721
+>y-y-yeah but we're less gay!
+Why do you even bother posting you social outcast? Functional adults who pay taxes and breed don't want anything to do with you no matter how LE BASED and LE CRINGE your failed ideology is.
+--- 14918817
+>>14915874
+The human nature that denies communism existed way longer and earlier than any god or emperor
+--- 14918835
+>>14918774
+>I hate communism derived from lenin-stalin ... instead of adapting it to your country like modern day china.
+Hi, Vladimir Lenin here. We made the mistake of deciding to go over directly to communist production and distribution. We thought that under the surplus-food appropriation system the People's Communes would provide us with the required quantity of grain, which we could distribute among the factories and thus achieve communist production and distribution […] brief experience convinced us that that line was wrong, that it ran counter to what we had previously written about the transition from capitalism to socialism, namely, that it would be impossible to bypass the period of socialist accounting and control in approaching even the lower stage of communism […] our theoretical literature has been definitely stressing the necessity for a prolonged, complex transition through socialist accounting and control from capitalist society (and the less developed it is the longer the transition will take) to even one of the approaches to communist society.
+
+https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1921/oct/17.htm
+--- 14918840
+Furthermore!
+--- 14918848
+>>14914448
+ML's are just Libs that like guns
+--- 14918853
+>>14914288 (OP)
+Honestly, at this point, I'll take anything over neoliberalism. Communism is pretty faggy overall, but tankies are unironically based.
+--- 14918994
+>>14914288 (OP)
+We don't?
+--- 14918999
+>>14914288 (OP)
+Communism is a totalitarian ideology that relies on censorship and brainwashing. A society where everyone is the same, with no one allowed to disagree.
+--- 14919059
+>>14914288 (OP)
+Some people say : 
+"We are all the same"
+
+Others will say :
+"We are all different"
+
+What do you say?
+--- 14919063
+>>14919059
+We are all the same in that we are different and unique.
+--- 14919066
+>>14914288 (OP)
+n
+--- 14919096
+>>14919059
+To put it another way : 
+
+"We are one"
+
+"We are many"
+
+- which strikes truest?
+--- 14919124
+>>14918999
+Sounds based and efficiencypilled to me
+--- 14919127
+>>14915616
+>But Marxism IS """woke""", it's proudly so!
+Marxism literally says that homosexuality is a capitalist disease.
+"The Encyclopedia of Homosexuality volume two is unequivocal on Marx and Engels view of homosexuality, stating: "There can be little doubt that, as far as they thought of the matter at all, Marx and Engels were personally homo-phobic, as shown by an acerbic 1869 exchange of letter on Jean Baptista von Schweitzer, a German socialist rival. Schweitzer had been arrested in a park on a morals charge and not only did Marx and Engels refuse to join a committee defending him, they resorted to the cheapest form of bathroom humor in their private comments about the affair"
+--- 14919132
+>>14914288 (OP)
+Because it is an unorganic system and even more violent version of Jacobinism.
+The "dialectic materialism" is a fairy tale and it doesnt fit all historical events, communists have to do social engineering to make their society in line with dialectic materialism.
+--- 14919148
+>>14919132
+>what do you mean by communists had to enact social engineering to make their societies conform "dialectical materialism"
+Read about NEP period in Soviet Union and Lenin's book "Left Communism a Childhood Disease", because Russia was not conforming to the Marxist views Lenin had to generate a bourgeoisie that didnt exist before and then purge them later, they did the whole Marxist "history" as a theatric performance using whole Russia as a stage
+--- 14919206
+>>14915623
+>t. calls anyone who doesn't ruin their life with retarded racism and dead German ideology, a "communist"
+--- 14919213
+>>14918848
+You don't know what liberals are. May as well just redefine it as "anyone who disagrees with me".
+--- 14919217
+>>14918999
+>Communism is a totalitarian ideology that relies on censorship and brainwashing. 
+This statement is correct.
+>A society where everyone is the same, with no one allowed to disagree
+This statement is also correct. All of your interests are easily calculated by algorithms. There are millions of people just like you in appearance, speech, and general knowledge and yes, you DO agree on everything.
+
+Go ahead and say something in public that isn't accepted by the liberal orthodoxy in this country. Go prove me wrong.
+--- 14919220
+>>14919132
+>Because it is an unorganic system
+kek, fear the mineral based communism
+> even more violent version of Jacobinism
+>being a nazi
+>call others violent
+>The "dialectic mater... random tirade
+i mean this cool and but that debate is no longer relevant considering that entire world is capitalist so the need of "capitalist fase" is no longer needed, but the capitalist prediction are still relevant and your system right now is not in the best heath
+--- 14919236
+>>14918774
+>Ever wonder why the Soviets collapse in incompetence and China is now the world's foremost superpower?
+Because the Soviets were actually communists and the Chinese aren't. Instead of also collapsing like the Soviets the chinks transitioned into a system that actually works ...fascism
+--- 14919242
+>>14917851
+Why are you obsessed with this dudes race while also accusing others through your projection? All you fucking nutjobs know how to do is project. stfu you stupid fucking cunt
+--- 14919376
+>>14919148
+>a bourgeoisie that didnt exist before
+Lol.
+--- 14919441
+>>14919236
+Soviets had the benefit of the military industrial complex while China was sending soldiers to the front without socks in the 60's
+--- 14919600
+>>14919127
+What Marx said in the 1800s doesn't matter, what matters is how Marxists act in 2023.
+Even Fidel Castro had to eventually say "sorry guys, I regret it :(" concerning homosexual persecution.
+Fact is, 90% of Marxists today (and I'm saying this as a Latin American, not a first worlder) are what you would describe as "Woke".
+--- 14919759
+>>14919376
+Russia was an agrarian feudal society before the revolution dummy.
+
+On another note, isn’t it crazy how communism only took root in nations with uneducated peasant masses, and not in actual industrialized nations? Almost as if it only appeals to uneducated yokels looking for a utopian system.
+--- 14919943
+>>14918835
+You dumb leftypol shitposter, don't just copy-paste dengbaiting. You left in "People's Communes" instead of the "peasants".
+--- 14919977
+>>14914288 (OP)
+Cold War inertia
+--- 14920962
+>>14918774
+The idea that our modern world necessarily needed to include "protecting trans kids" into Communism implies that trans kids were LESS oppressed during the industrial age than they are in our modern era. What changed between then and now which requires trans protections now but not then? This is a core flaw in intersectional ideology. By all means things are less oppressive towards intersectional identities than they were when these ideologies were created, so if anything the importance of them should have gone down, not up.
+--- 14920981
+>>14914489
+The Bolsheviks are way more interesting than any fucking Russian empire figures.
+Lenin alone is probably top 3 most wild backstories and rise to power out of all historical figures in history. Like the dude literally graduated law school, in a few months as a freshman because he was like "I am law chad, give me your graduating exams" and he needed high distinction 6/12 courses to pass and got high distinction in all 12.
+--- 14920992
+>>14920981
+Wow, so he was a bougie LARPing bitch just like all communists.
+
+No wonder the masses rose up to lynch communist strawmen, out of touch fucks
+--- 14921012
+>>14914288 (OP)
+It’s not that I hate it, it’s that what communists implement isn’t effective. If he had been just a little less of an egomaniac, he would have shot into the air and achieved the same goal - driving them off - without hurting anyone. Oh well.Also, the idea of the state withering away when the government is given a great deal of power is retarded and overly optimistic.
+--- 14921014
+>>14920992
+Wow, violent liberals tricked masses of people. I mean Ceausescu was literally the most retarded commie leader and the only one that got lynched and look at his polling in Romania today, literally the most popular historical figure in their country and outpolls literally every current politician lmao.
+--- 14921016
+>>14921012
+Ah fuck, I accidentally copy pasted something unrelated. What I meant to say was that communists tend to have ineffective policies, and that the idea state withering away after being given immense power is hopelessly naive.
+--- 14921024
+>>14921014
+>HE'S POPULAR BROOOOOOS
+
+Where's the mass uprising to reinstate communism? Oh wait, it's never happening.
+
+You Will Never Have a Revolution
+--- 14921040
+>NOOO CHINA ISN'T COMMUNIST.
+>Meanwhile China
+>https://youtu.be/urdh7zKjwA0?t=7211 [Embed]
+
+Eat shit Capitalistoids. Communists just played you at your own game and are now predicted to be the core global economy. What was it that Lenin said? You will sell us the rope to which we hang you with?
+--- 14921061
+>>14921040
+cope
+--- 14921062
+>>14914288 (OP)
+It’s that whole totalitarian form of government thing. Doesn’t work well with People who like liberal forms of governance.
+--- 14921069
+>>14914533
+Yep.
+--- 14921094
+Friends! Why fight over hating Communism. We can all agree we Communists. Even communists hate communists.
+--- 14921119
+>>14914288 (OP)
+Communism is dumb but targeted, massive, state-guided financial subsidies into certain development projects are Good, Actually
+
+China and Asian tigers all do it there is zero reason why the West shouldn’t do it too
+--- 14921322
+>>14921119
+>targeted, massive, state-guided financial subsidies into certain development projects are Good, Actually
+
+Yeah, I'm a fascist too
+--- 14921346
+>>14914288 (OP)
+The idea of communal property is fine. The problem is what that means in reality, with incorporating a government to run it. Absolute imprisonment. That's the problem.
+--- 14921387
+>>14921346
+it almost seems to me like the best thing is for people to just get together and build communities where they communally own stuff, within a greater liberal framework, which they are perfectly free to do already, but no one actually wants to put in the effort and make the sacrifices to do that, so they have to both take stuff from other people to use, and force other people at gun point to participate in order to make it work
+--- 14921400
+>>14921387
+idk why all commutrannys just make a new CHAZ and fuck off there
+--- 14921482
+>>14914448
+Except Engels said all conventionality would be replaced with revolutionary ideology and revolutionary conceptions not yet realised, specially talking about the family and motherhood (conventions he wanted to do away with) but virtually all human interaction would be changed once the modes of production were seized. Marxists are 100% woke faggots and believe that for communism to work, the modes of production (which they believe *primarily* influence social relations) must be controlled by a dictatorship of the proletariat for a time until the new revolutionary super structure becomes instinctual the same way reactionary ideology is so that now no need for hierarchy is required - everyone has been psychologically conditioned into a stateless society that provides for each other. The reasons for this are ??? Because Marxists are retarded faggots who don’t use their brains. Marxist-Leninist regimes often are woke “anti racist” shitholes that ban traditional institutions like religion (Buddhism, Catholicism, Sunni Islam, and Orthodox Churches) in favour of state atheism and education on Marxist-Leninist dogma. They also support feminism and their historical homophobia was influenced by Lenin’s own prejudices which he believed it was a mental illness as a result of bourgeois lifestyle not because he thought it was a violation of natural law. The modern day PRC offers HRT procedures in some of their provinces now anyway.
+--- 14921491
+>>14921119
+Except those massive public works projects usually are infamously corrupt + the West does do public works projects you subhuman Russian shill. 
+
+“Le BASED China and Russia!”! shills need to be executed and buried in unmarked mass graves.
+--- 14921512
+>>14921482
+>for communism to work, the modes of production (which they believe *primarily* influence social relations) must be controlled by a dictatorship of the proletariat for a time until the new revolutionary super structure becomes instinctual the same way reactionary ideology is so that now no need for hierarchy is required - everyone has been psychologically conditioned into a stateless society that provides for each other
+Ironically, this would happen if right wingers were ubiquitous.
+--- 14921914
+>>14921482
+>the modes of production (which they believe *primarily* influence social relations) 
+The development of social productivity (urbanization, industrialization, etc.) necessarily leads to changes in culture too, although we can't exactly predict how.
+
+Generally speaking, rural areas are far more religious than urban areas because of both poor education (and hence anti-intellectualism) and lower level of organization. Transportation is poorer and exchanges with the outside world is difficult, the entertainment is shit and food production requires more collaboration, so the people there organize themselves given the absence of a strong government, as opposed to the relatively atomized urban population who have other options. A big, fat church in a rural region is basically little more than a facility and a center for information exchange, mating, rituals, networking, and hierarchy. So it's actually logical to be a Christian in some areas, provided that you wanna get laid, or be more socialized, or get some insider information, or have backups, or pull strings.
+
+So, in the final analysis, theology is ultimately nonsense, but the organization it attaches to is not.
+
+ >The modern day PRC offers HRT procedures in some of their provinces now anyway.
+My sense is that they want the benefits of modernization while reducing the negatives without blowing up the country, there are differences between urban/rural, and a lot of what constitutes Western "culture wars" where everyone is sensitive and triggered all the time is really like different sects of "convert or die" Christians fighting a religious war. Theory is different from reality, but it's like "how can everyone benefit" rather than a particular tribe in a tribal conflict, and that might mean offering HRT procedures now, but everyone has to compromise out of an interest in "harmony" and mutual gain, so the rural population doesn't get triggered, but that also means organized religions have to GTFO of politics.
+--- 14921939
+>>14915362
+>theyre evil business owners who control the whole world and crushed our superpower
+>but also theyre children
+try to be consistent
+--- 14921945
+>>14915648
+>terminally online
+i like this meme word because whoever says it immediately outs themselves as a hypocrite
+--- 14922541
+>>14921040
+>are now predicted to be the core global economy
+source from 2023 please
+--- 14922677
+>>14915616
+>But Marxism IS """woke""", it's proudly so!
+"Wokeness" was mainly libs overexerting themselves during Obama's lame-duck second term, sublimating energy since writing Cracked.com articles about "why we're done with white men" was a way to "win" without winning. It was a sign of its fragility. They didn't have anything to brag about. Zilch. But who wants to be told "you, categorically, are a horrible person. We hate the way you sit. We hate the way you talk. We hate the way you think." It's obnoxious and helped explain why the Democrats lost in 2016 and Trump won. 
+
+That said, I know this is gonna sound like liberal whining, but the U.S. really does have a deeply undemocratic system that gives power to the most reactionary elements in the society via the electoral college, but the two-party system makes people think everything is represented 50/50.
+
+Think about it, a Republican should have won in 2016 anyways just based on electoral trends and the fact Obama was basically a non-existent president, and they still only got in on a technicality with Trump. And then immediately the right started chimping out and throwing up Nazi salutes b/c they believed that 4chan gave them the mandate from heaven and they thought the masses of shiftless young white men wanted to join them. In reality, they just wanted to be able to say fag and be a bit rude. Now it's the conservatives that are the overly sensitive babies who are throwing bitch fits anytime NORMAL PEOPLE don't want to hear about bottom surgery all the goddamned time. They thought Trump was going to take them across the Rubicon but all it did was smarten up the libs and make them super focused on prosecution.
+
+Libs have had more of a storm than any Q cultists have had. It also radicalized a lot of people, the labor movement is stronger than it has been in 20 years. The right wing is vastly over represented online and politically. Even on the internet people seem to be getting sick of them.
+--- 14922718
+>>14922677
+>The right wing is vastly over represented online and politically.
+
+Proud to be a force multiplier
+
+>Even on the internet people seem to be getting sick of them.
+
+Go back to your echochamber
+--- 14922728
+>>14922677
+"woke" started when mainland europe industrialized and "intellectuals" collectively stamped their feet because they interpreted industrialization as some sort of outside force and not an inevitability as they were forcefully ripped out of the middle ages and the ignorance and superstition that came with it that they so secretly desired 
+
+that's not to say it's not inherent in human nature to stamp your feet and destroy yourself
+--- 14922881
+>>14914288 (OP)
+All these years and I STILL don't know what communism even is.
+--- 14922917
+>>14922881
+the vast majority of both internet communists and internet anti-communists don't know what communism is lol. so you aren't alone

his/14914631.txt

@@ -188,3 +188,94 @@ That is extreme dominance by Celtic males.
 --- 14918475
 >>14918470
 250 people per county*
+--- 14918628
+>>14914631 (OP)
+>defeats Rome 
+Please name the battle they did this?
+--- 14919974
+>>14918440
+>>14918470
+You are an American LARPer with strange sexual fantasies about a made up group that never existed. You are a skinny nerd LARPing as an ancient warrior
+You will never be celtic
+Celts never existed
+Highlanders are the most cucked group in existence
+--- 14919988
+>>14918440
+>>14918470
+>>14919974
+And the American southerners you love to WE WUZ as and claim were celtic were descended from people who defeated the cuckobites
+Hillbilly comes from a supporter of William of Orange
+Highlanders, the most pathetic, weak group in existence. Imagine being mogged at the battle of culloden and 50 years later fighting for the british against the patriots and getting defeated again by a few farmers who oiled up a bridge. LOL
+--- 14920047
+>>14918470
+>>14919974
+Graham bell was r1b-U106
+A germanic Ydna haplo
+--- 14920062
+>>14920047
+The person you're responding to is a shut-in american yankee haplosperg with deranged sexual fantasies about groups that never existed.
+He saves pictures of rugby players with germanic last names and blonde hair to his computer and tries to label them as "celtic" and details his strange sexual fantasies he has about them
+A pathetic, pitiful man
+--- 14920484
+>>14920062
+You come across as unhinged, mate.
+--- 14920523
+>>14914631 (OP)
+>Chimps out over a refugee being deported
+How the mighty have fallen
+--- 14920530
+>>14920484
+Says the one LARPing as a group that never existed and saving pictures of muscular men to his computer
+Homosexual faggot
+--- 14921082
+>>14918470
+>Anglos never lived anywhere near Scotland
+Coping nonsense.
+
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruthwell_Cross
+>The Ruthwell Cross is a stone Anglo-Saxon cross probably dating from the 8th century, when the village of Ruthwell, now in Scotland, was part of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdom of Northumbria.
+>It is the most famous and elaborate Anglo-Saxon monumental sculpture, and possibly contains the oldest surviving text, predating any manuscripts containing Old English poetry.
+--- 14921106
+>>14917553
+isn't the post-brexit case for independence largely that Britain's leadership is incompetent and will end up dragging you guys down?
+--- 14922434
+>>14914859
+Scotland created the UK, why should it leave if that option doesn't benefit it?
+
+>>14921106
+That's the argument. But leaving the UK to join the EU would do absolutely massive irreversible harm to our economy which could never be fixed by EU membership.
+--- 14922522
+>>14920530
+who?
+--- 14923014
+>>14914637
+I'm pretty sure that most of the things that are attributed to Ireland and Scotland are English things that were adopted in the 1800's as a larp.
+--- 14923115
+>>14914637
+And the Scottish spoke Gaelic (Irish) for hundreds of years, it was the only national language of Scotland until English, and yes Scots has nothing to do with unique Scotishness, it's just less Norman English
+--- 14923133
+>>14914631 (OP)
+They didn't defeat the Normans. I can’t think of anyone that defeated the Norman’s. Wallace is a Walloonian name, and the Wallace’s came over with William the Conqueror.
+--- 14923223
+>>14914631 (OP)
+>Starts the Vietnam War
+>Son (Scottish Irish Mestizo) produces CIA Psyop music to hypnotize all of the non-Celtic whites
+>Both from the same clan as John Wayne, another ploy to lessen Anglo dominance over America
+Just based on this, the Gaels are clearly superior.
+--- 14923275
+>>14923223
+>Wayne is an old English surname meaning a craftsman: wagon driver or builder
+>First of all, the surname Morrison is a patronymic which means ‘the son of Morris’ or ‘the son of Maurice’. The Normans brought the name Maurice, Latin for Moorish, to Britain and over time the name changed to Morris
+OH NO NO NO GAELBROS
+--- 14923358
+>>14923275
+>John Wayne was his screen name
+>Birth name Marion Morrison
+>The Morrisons were originally from the Isle of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides, Scotland (same as Special Agent Morrison of "The Doors" acclaim).
+>The Morrison clan centred on the Isle of Lewis derived their surname from MhicGilleMhoire, a name said to mean "son of a servant of Mary". ("Mhic" meaning son, "Gille" meaning servant and "Mhoire" meaning Mary).
+(Yuo) will not get away with spreading Anglo propaganda
+--- 14923361
+>>14923358
+Yeah
+So Scandinavian
+Spastic

his/14915343.txt

@@ -83,3 +83,115 @@ i'm surprised no one has posted the edit yet
 >>14916594
 >bullshit made up by levantine
 >meanwhile every other arab
+--- 14918744
+>>14915749
+13% will not cause a small drift towards negroes but a big one, because they are so distant from Eurasians. Nafri negro pull is powerful.
+--- 14918823
+>>14915343 (OP)
+What makes them so inclined towards antisocial behaviour?
+--- 14919244
+>>14918744
+It would be small, 13% isn't much and more than half of the 13% is actually related to ANA and getting misread as Yoruba because of the shitty model.
+
+Riffians are barely 6% Yoruba-like.
+--- 14919265
+>>14915749
+>they would plot in the middle of Spaniards and Arabs
+No they would not. They literally plot on their own SSA cline to the exclusion of all west eurasians
+--- 14919266
+>>14919265
+Spaniards and arabs have basal (subsaharan) dna.
+--- 14919279
+Moroccans and other nafris are just light skinned blacks
+--- 14919285
+>>14919279
+Looks italian
+--- 14919297
+>>14919279
+Light skinned? I wouldn't even go that far.
+--- 14919336
+>>14915510
+They go in the negro corner
+--- 14919373
+>>14915757
+you wish
+--- 14919511
+>>14915343 (OP)
+>>14915749
+>tfw you're 15% black african and 25% taforaltoid negro but don't want to admit it.
+--- 14919521
+>>14916594
+saudis have black blood from mixing with their tanzanian slaves. everyone shifts the blame to omanis instead
+--- 14919525
+>>14917935
+the average tanzanian/arab mix aka the average omani and 25-30% of saudis
+--- 14919530
+>>14919373
+You will never be white Pedro. You and nafris are both mutts
+--- 14919966
+It depends on ze country my friend...
+--- 14920217
+>>14919373
+>southernmost iberians
+portuguese and canarians
+--- 14920302
+>>14919265
+En-Nesyri isn't a regular Berber, but one with visibly recent SSA ancestry, no one in my gf's Moroccan family looks like him.
+
+Here's a simple 2D PCA, like I said Riffians and Kabyles would plot between Spaniards and Arabs, but with a small shift towards Yorubas.
+
+>>14919511
+I'm Lebanese.
+--- 14920326
+Aryan Berber + predominantly Blacc
+
+This is how the "Moroccan.distinctive look" is created.
+--- 14920528
+>>14919966
+what is this, mtDNA?
+--- 14920537
+>>14920326
+>aryan 
+>berber 
+KEKKKKK. I have noticed with Moroccans it is usually their mothers who look blacker…his mom looks like she’s straight out of Sudan
+--- 14920544
+>>14915343 (OP)
+nafris are mainly berber, soutehrn euro, and arab. negro admixture is very minimal
+--- 14920546
+>>14920326
+thats not the distinctive moroccan but the distinctive 9ahwi mutt look, its not universal of morrocco.
+--- 14921702
+>>14920546
+All nafris in Europe look like this
+--- 14921718
+>>14915893
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afro-Saudis
+--- 14921754
+>>14920326
+is this the nafri version of boganoffs?
+--- 14921765
+>>14921702
+because the poor nafris who go to europe look like that
+--- 14921785
+>>14921765
+>poor nafris
+So the entirety of the population then
+--- 14921790
+>>14921785
+there are rich arab urbanites and berber chieftains who will never migrate to europe
+--- 14922132
+>>14921718
+I know Saudi Arabia is filled with negro and mulatto Arabs, but the G25 Saudi average doesn't have SSA admixture.
+--- 14922319
+>>14921702
+b.s.
+--- 14922531
+>>14922132
+>negro and mulatto arabs 
+They’re just arabs.
+--- 14922853
+>>14922531
+I agree completely, if their baba is Arab, their claim to Arabness is valid.
+--- 14923467
+>>14921702
+nafris are diverse, berbers don't look like Hakimi, but mixed berbers and arabs do

his/14915682.txt

@@ -211,3 +211,523 @@ umm
 >>14918439
 >He most likely would have realized that too at some point
 Maybe, possibly, but how many more times? He was given two key opportunities and let them both slip, and we can only judge on what happened. The world is full of generals who "might have later corrected their mistakes".
+--- 14918512
+>>14917285
+>btfo by inflicting the heaviest casualty ratios on the AoNV of any Union general
+>"this war doesnt end without unconditional surrender"
+>confederate platform
+
+what about anti-McClellanoids makes them so prone to schizo fits?
+--- 14918532
+>>14918478
+out of context, Joe Johnston became a coward after the Peninsula, we are talking about Grant fighting in the west against Pemberton and Johnston, he never went up against Johnston in the east. Johnston did nothing while Pemberton was starved out and then constantly retreated from Sherman and was about to give up Atlanta without a fight before he was relived. He probably thought the war was unwinnable and refused to go into battle unless victory was certain which it never was.
+
+>>14918461
+Pemberton's estimates are not the same as McClellans and the Confederates outnumbered the Union in the peninsula campaign, they had like 120k men, Lee's force at Gettysbueg was about 78,000 strong. That's after suffering from 20,000 casualties in the Seven Days, 9,000 in Second Bull Run, more than 12,000 at Antietam and about 12k at Chancellorsville
+
+>>14918479
+Letting lee "get away" after Antietam was not a failure, there was not a SINGLE TIME IN THE WHOLE WAR an army was ever pursued and wiped out, it wasn't possible with the cavalry available, the same thing happened with Lee's army after Gettysburg. The only time something a bit like that happened was hood's army after Nashville. And McClellan would have won the war in 1862 if Lincoln hadn't taken 40000 troops away and given them to pope the retard.
+--- 14918547
+>>14918532
+>out of context, Joe Johnston conveniently became a coward after the Peninsula,
+I hate McClellanoids.
+--- 14918554
+>>14918532
+>the Confederates outnumbered the Union in the peninsula campaign
+Alright now things are just getting silly
+--- 14918556
+>>14917366
+>every officer
+such as?
+Most of them came to his defense and were labeled "McClellanites" if they spoke favorably of him.
+They had their careers ruined and one of them was even court martialed for cowardice in a battle where he lost his leg leading a doomed charge rallying his men to a counter-effect a Confederate breakthrough, he would narrowly save his flank and his force.
+They threw his ass in jail and had a kangaroo court ready for him within weeks.
+The way they treated McClellan's allies was impossibly corrupt.
+>>14917387
+No, Grant was put in charge because Henry Halleck was his ally and Halleck had the ear of Lincoln and War Dept, and Halleck, being the head of logistics could decide who got what and when, so you have Halleck witholding supplies from men like McClellan and Burnside, then telling Lincoln they are failures while Halleck sent 40 fucking thousand men from the Washington garrison to Grant during the Overland to eat up his losses because Grant lost 3x his battle casualties due to attrition, which McClellan near totally prevented due to impeccable camp discipline, hygiene, and medical preparation.
+>Why was McClellan in charge in the first place
+He was the most qualified for the job and he readily demonstrated this by routinely inflicting heavy casualties on the CSA while taking very little by comparison, a feat no other Union commander came close to recreating.
+>>14917578
+You mean the only campaign where Lee was consistently defeated in pitched battles by a roughly equal army?
+>>14917638
+Thomas is reddit and overrated.
+>soundly defeated
+how? His own team cut his supply lines, his men werent even allotted shoes, kek.
+>negligent inaction
+"Negligent inaction" or rather prudence and method is what prevented Second Bull Run's from happening.
+
+The fact remains, he is the only Union commander to consistently deal heavy defeats to the ANV with an army of lesser or equal size to the ANV.
+--- 14918558
+>>14917682
+>Vicksburg
+>outnumbered garrison completely cutoff
+>Grant still fumbles around with swamp expeditions and only wins because Pemberton, a personal friend of Grant's, knew he could surrender and be easily paroled if they gave it up on the Fourth of July.
+ironically, Grant's breakthrough moment, was a political victory.
+--- 14918571
+>>14918554
+WIKIPEDIA SAID SO
+--- 14918581
+>>14917689
+The Confederates actually had the Harper's Ferry Model 1855 and a substantial number of Enfields, far more sophisticated than what the Union fielded, the Union wouldnt have superior arms until 1863.
+McClellan fought at a tactical disadvantage in firearms.
+Grant fought with an extreme advantage, having most of his men equipped with 1863 model Springfields and his cavalry armed with 10,000 repeaters.
+>>14917724
+>>14917705
+The Western armies faced off against farmers, the majority of Enfields went to the East. Pembertons troops were not better armed, their muster and reports reveal they not only had less than what they were supposed to have, they primarily had equipment on par with the Union, until 1863 when the Western Union armies were given the same weaponry as the AOP, that being more modern springfield variants and repeaters.
+--- 14918587
+>>14918017
+>necessary casualties
+O' I am laffin
+he lost three times the men he did in battle to preventable attrition
+--- 14918593
+>>14918556
+>which McClellan near totally prevented due to
+not engaging in offensive maneuvers. But the Union, being on the offensive, would have had to perform said offensive maneuvers eventually. It's not clear if McClellan was up to the job. Lee started to adopt a more defensive approach by the end of 1862 (Fredericksburg). If Lee started doing what he historically did in 1864 I don't think McClellan would have performed very well.
+--- 14918605
+>>14918267
+>>14918289
+>>14918304
+Yes, if you sit outside the enemies capital and slowly dig forward, which is what Grant ended up doing anyway, you will win due to the sheer casualties inflicted on the enemy.
+>how would it end sooner if they dug forward
+Because digging toward Richmond is faster than dancing around Richmond and constantly jobbing to a more aggressive and agile opponent who can "reset the board" using their greater maneuverability.
+entrenching and investing their hold by all means necessary city means that agility is useless and the war is brought to a singular decisive campaign.
+>taking the Mississippi 
+didnt end the war
+>march to the Sea
+didnt end the war
+
+You know what ended the war, Lee running out men and Richmond being threatened, with Lee asking Longstreet "can you move your reserves to assist a breakthrough" Longstreet replying "No I am out" Lee concluding "Then defeat or surrender are inevitably our only options left."
+
+You can mockingly deride what McClellan did, but the fact remains, Grant did exactly what McClellan did, which was go for attriting down Lee while marching toward Richmond.
+--- 14918610
+>>14918605
+>taking the Mississippi
+>didnt end the war
+>march to the Sea
+>didnt end the war
+I'm guessing the Anaconda plan was also a case of "didn't end the war" because it didn't inflict any direct casualties
+--- 14918619
+>>14918358
+McClellan was sabotaged by the War Dept because they just didnt like him.
+They wanted a Republican Army for a Republican President to strengthen Republican power.
+>how could they be so partisan
+They were just like the Whigs before them who wanted a uniparty system, it was wise in a way, a single party rules better than a dual or multiparty system, but nonetheless it stifled the efforts of high quality commanders due to political conflict.
+McClellan's retreat wasnt due to a defeat and he preserved his forces and was tremendously successful in delivering costly victories for the CSA or very heavy handed defeats.
+The Confederates never won a shocking victory against McClellan.
+Imagine if Lee pulled off a Chancellorsville or a Cold Harbor in 1861 or 1862, that's a Lincoln loss and Union accepting CSA independence.
+If McClellan hadnt stifled the early advantage of the CSA, when they were at their absolute strongest by relative to the Union, the CSA chance of victory goes up immensely.
+Especially with Jackson alive and the Confederates not yet falling behind in manpower resources, early staggering victories would have been a tremendous upset to the Union efforts.
+Instead McClellan not only completely prevented anything like that from happening, he turned every Confederate victory into a pyrrhic one.
+--- 14918626
+>>14918619
+Enlighten me, what were McClellan's great victories?
+--- 14918627
+>>14918619
+>Instead McClellan not only completely prevented anything like that from happening, he turned every Confederate victory into a pyrrhic one.
+I can indeed agree his virtue was preventing anything from happening
+--- 14918635
+>>14918605
+>Because digging toward Richmond is faster than dancing around Richmond and constantly jobbing to a more aggressive and agile opponent
+What do you THINK the union was trying to do for the entire war?
+
+The Bull Run Campaign (1862)
+The Peninsula Campaign (1862)
+The Fredericksburg Campaign (1862)
+The Mud March (1863)
+The Chancellorsville Campaign (1863)
+The Mine Run Campaign (1863)
+The Overland Campaign (1864)
+The Second Peninsula Campaign (1864)
+--- 14918637
+>>14918461
+The Pinkertons had found muster rolls from the CSA, listing their total assets in Virginia as roughly 100,000, Lee's horde itself was 80,000 strong in Virginia however his men were staggered and strewn out, many of them just didnt show up to work so to speak, and when going into Maryland his men showed much less enthusiasm, preferring to defend Virginia and the South than invade the North, thus Lee's greatly reduced numbers at Antietam.
+However McClellan didnt know this and preferred to remain cautious, knowing how capable Lee and the CSA were, and preferred not to risk getting Bull Runned, an instance where Pope thought he trapped a much smaller army and instead found himself facing down 50,000 men tens of thousands of which were turning his flank and riding for his two escape routes.
+McClellan was also cautious due to the Confederates knowing the terrain much better and he was acutely aware of how many losses the Union had taken during the opening movements of the war due to being cut off by Virginia and Maryland's many rivers and forest roads, leading to otherwise farmhands on draft horses becoming something like heavy knights in their decisive ability simply because they knew the land and 50 cavalrymen could bag 300 infantry if they reached a crossing or a roadway before them.
+Which the Confederates always sought to do.
+--- 14918640
+>>14918637
+The Pinkertons gave the 200K number. Again, where did you see 100?
+--- 14918647
+>mcclellan replaced
+>war ends in union victory
+--- 14918652
+>>14918593
+>not engaging in offensive maneuvers
+???
+McClellan went on the offensive, whether defensive or offensive his non-battlefield casualties were the lowest of any to command the AoP.
+The wounded dying, the sick dying, and men getting sick at all, are all to a great extent preventable or can be mitigated to an extreme as McClellan did, yet Grant was not able to do this, infact no other Union commander was able to do this. Ones who were near solely on the Defense like George Meade were not able to do this.
+Grant when he was defending during the Overland, was not able to do this.
+McClellan also managed this while in an offensive campaign.
+>the Union would have to perform offensive maneuvers eventually
+What does this even mean in this context? McClellan did attack, are you saying he didnt literally march men into the open to get shot? Sure, he marched and prepared his men in such a way they would always have a tactically advantageous position to fire from.
+You want these big sweeping attacks, that is not the direct warfare went, post Napoleon warfare becomes more like the Swedes in Poland, with the side who can entrench faster and better winning. WWI becoming the defining conflict for this type of conflict.
+>Lee adopted a more defensive approach
+No he didnt, he was defending the Rappahannock because it was winter and its just a military maxim you avoid Winter campaigns.
+Lee went to have plenty offensives after Fredericksburg, infact his biggest post Fredericksburg battle was an offensive one.
+>McClellan wouldnt have performed very well
+why?
+Lee on the offense or defense was not able to stand against McClellan's force, McClellan knew his advantages and Lee's, and he sought to mitigate Lee's and amplify his own, classic Art of War, no other Union general demonstrated this ability, and only a few Confederates, Lee among them, demonstrated this ability.
+--- 14918654
+>>14918610
+what are you talking about?
+The war ended when Lee surrendered, simple as.
+>everything was leading up to that, ahem everything post McClellan I mean
+yeah yeah keep dilating.
+
+The war ended with Lee and Richmond, the General McClellan proved himself to be an equal of and the City McClellan proved to have seriously threatened when it was actually garrisoned.
+--- 14918658
+>>14918626
+Malvern Hill, Gaines Mill, South Mountain, Beaver Dam Creek.
+Confederates took casualties similar to the ones they took in 1864 and 65, yet McClellan pulled it off not only with 3x less Men than his Union counterparts, but he was also on occasion outnumbered.
+>>14918627
+yeah its not like he every inflicted losses on the Confederates, lets just repeat a tired old meme that comes from the Memoirs of a self admitted political animal.
+>>14918635
+>what was the Union trying to do
+fumble to get in 3 years where McClellan got in 3 weeks?
+--- 14918672
+>>14918640
+no, the Pinkertons gave 100k as the most accurate estimate based on CSA muster rolls.
+>where
+At the visitor's center at Antietam and I asked a tour guide why the Confederates had so few men at the outset when they would swell to a million man army later on.
+>>14918647
+>Germany removes all jews
+>becomes a nuclear power
+hmmmmm
+--- 14918673
+>>14918658
+>Malvern Hill
+McClellan was not on the feild, his subordinates faught and won that battle
+--- 14918674
+>>14918512
+>muh k/d ratio
+Stop playing video games you dumb nigger faggot subhuman. I know uou're talking about 7 days, because your historically illiterate ass doesn't know he didn't even personally command in any of those battles.
+--- 14918701
+>>14918672
+>no, the Pinkertons gave 100k as the most accurate estimate based on CSA muster rolls.
+Tour guides are not historians, they're entertainers
+--- 14918836
+>>14918673
+The battle wasnt "fought" by commanders, McClellan ordered the entrenchments, their locations, and gave a lot of freedom to his artillerists to operate as they pleased.
+He was so good, he won that battle without even being present for it, his preparations lead to the Union inflicting severe casualties.
+If anyone else had been in command, they wouldnt be dug in, their artillerists would be doing nothing but counter battery, and the Union would likely be routed and destroyed by the overwhelming local superiority of the confederates at the points of engagement.
+--- 14918849
+>>14918836
+>He was so good, he won that battle without even being present for it,
+Low level trolling here
+--- 14918852
+>>14918674
+>he didnt command any of the battles
+>also he failed as a commander even though he wasnt present
+>no those victories shouldnt go to him either because he want present
+>>14918701
+No, Tour guides are required to have a degree in the relevant field and have to pass an examination by a board of historians.
+They are not "entertainers" they are credited historians.
+>wasnt personally in command of any of those battles
+>look up Seven Days
+>First battle: Beaver Dam Creek
+>McClellan is personally present
+>Second battle: Gaines Mill
+>McClellan is also personally present
+really makes one think.
+--- 14918857
+>>14918849
+>they would have won without decisive artillery commanders or fortifications 
+why
+>trust me bro, McClellan's standing preparation had nothing to do with the victory
+
+you really are trolling
+--- 14919070
+>>14915682 (OP)
+OP seems to be unaware of cursory civil war history regarding his daddy complex hero figure, like the fact that McClellan was not a personal commander in any of those battles, and was a couple hundred miles away on the Galena, thinking his Telegrams are the new hot thing in military command.
+
+Let's take a look at McClellan, as a military commander. He, like Lee and some other west pointers, are products of things they saw in the Mexican-American war. Winfield's flanking maneuver in Sierra Gordo did a number on him and Lee. Mac was also dispatched as an observer in the Crimean war, and published his military study, which became the new hot thing in the US. Ironically, in this report, he stated that "Hesitation is a general's greatest impairment". This detailed military report and his rep as a west pointer accelerated him to national spotlight at the war's start as one of the very few military men who might have an idea of what they're doing, experience, professional military education, etc. The governor of Ohio was lucky to grab Mac for himself and appointed him commander of the Ohio state militia, and nagged him nonstop to cross the border into W. Virginia to take the fight to the rebel and to also help the unionist sympathizers there.
+
+W. Virginia was his baptism by fire as a commander. He orchestrated a relatively competent invasion of the region, following multiple avenues, against a very inferior force. if I recall well he drew up the plan for Philippi, which was a complex maneuver involving 3 columns and ended up failing to do what it was intended to do, due to bad execution. Mac wasn't on the field to command this one, as he usually was. He was some distance way moving orders through his field telegram.
+--- 14919071
+>>14919070
+After the rebels were flushed out of Philippi, Mac proceeded to make offensive operations against their defensive network on Laurel Mountain and Rich Mountain, towards the Tygart valley river. In Rich Mountain, Mac was under the spell of the chronic delusion that the enemy's force was larger than his own. He observed that attacks on fortified enemies were dangerous in the Crimean war and didn't want a repeat of those debacles under his auspices. He received information of a trial bypassing the confederate defenses on Rich Mountain and ordered Rosecrans to take a brigade and go behind the rebs. After rain delayed this movement for several hours he grew nervous and recalled this attack, but it never reached Rosecrans, who arrived in his position very late and attacked the rebels behind their main position up Rich Mountain. Mac heard the sounds of battle and was reduced into a deplorable state more or less, then dawdled and hesitated on whether to attack the confederate position concurrently with Rosecrans attack as their original plan entailed or not, but he decided to just sit on his ass and do nothing. The flanking attack was a success and split the rebel fortifications at Rich Mountain from the Tygart valley, and occupied the road to Beverly, the line of comms and retreat for the rebels. The rebs retreated during that night and were pursued. Thus ended the first, and one of the rare pitched battles Mac was in personal command of; he sat on his ass and did nothing. He had no problems slurping up al the credit, though, and even fiercely criticized his subordinate Morris for not being aggressive enough against rebels defending Laurel Mountain.
+--- 14919072
+>>14919071
+OP, since he is a cock sucking retarded son of a bitch, isn't aware that Mac wasn't on the field in any of those battles. Nor does he understand the context of these engagements - like Mechanicsville, where the rebels made a series of frontal assaults on fortified union troops poised on hills behind a creek, or Gaines' Mill where the same happened as the union army was in full flight back down the peninsula, or Malvern Hill where the rebels also made a series of concentrated frontal attacks on prepared union positions. More importantly, Mac wasn't in the field commanding in any of these engagements, for better or worse. So he can't take any credit for anything 'good' that came out of them, which was practically nothing - they were all just rearguard actions that concluded with resumption of his army's retreat. But he sure as fuck can take all the criticism he can get for not being on the field, and for failing to orchestrate his campaign on a strategic basis (like failing to cut off Johnston in the peninsula early on, at Williamsburg and several other locations). 
+
+As for the part where he got handed Lee's marching orders, that speaks for itself. McClellan is hands down one of the bottom 3 generals of the American civil war before you bring this one up. But once you do, he's hands down *the* worst army level general to have held command in the war on either side. His incompetence in Maryland probably extended the war by a year.
+--- 14919165
+OP categorically btfo
+--- 14919252
+>>14919070
+>thinking his Telegrams are the new hot thing in military command
+Well, he was right
+--- 14920502
+>>14919072
+>he's hands down *the* worst army level general to have held command in the war on either side
+Okay I have to stop you there. I don't like McClellan, but I'd take him over Banks any day.
+ Also Benjamin Butler and, if we include Confederate generals, Theophilus Holmes were basically just McClellan but worse. Holmes didn't even have the administrative skills of the other two. Just the indecisiveness.
+--- 14920610
+>>14919070
+>couple hundred miles away
+He was scouting Harrison Landing which is 17 miles away.
+Why are you so absurdly out of touch with reality?
+>wasn’t personally present 
+He was present for Beaver Dam Creek and Gaines mill. Why do you say he wasn’t?
+Why lie?
+I want an answer.
+--- 14920652
+>>14916584
+I got the West Point Atlas of War: Civil War for my sixth birthday, and I've hated McClellan ever since.
+--- 14920829
+>>14919070
+McClellan was the personal commander for two of the three of those battles.
+>ironically
+McClellan wasnt hesitating, he was cautious and he took far fewer casualties than any of his contemporaries because of it.
+>uh he fought les-
+nope, he fought more large scale battles in rapid succession than any other Union general, and he took less casualties than any other Union general.
+This is just a fact.
+If he was so bad, why does he outlcass everyone else?
+>>14919071
+>the spell of a chronic delusion
+"You can never overestimate your enemy" t. Garl Von Glauswitz
+Feel free to argue.
+>rare pitched battles Mac was in personal command of
+He was in personal command for Gaines Mill and Beaver Dam Creek. 
+>>14919072
+>wasnt on the field
+He was literally on the field for both Beaver Dam Creek and Gaines Mill.
+>rebels made a frontal assault on fortified Union troops
+Who had it as a standing order to dig in?
+Right McClellan, and he did not know Lee was going to attack, fortunately he was prudent and even when not present, his direct orders inflicted heavy casualties on the confederates.
+>in any of these engagements
+he was at both "Mechanicsville" Beaver Dam and Gaines Mill actively commanding Men as the battle unfolded.
+Why lie?
+>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Beaver_Dam_Creek#Battle
+>Jackson did not attack, but his presence near Porter's flank caused McClellan to order Porter to withdraw after dark behind Boatswain's Swamp, five miles (8 km) to the east.
+Literally giving orders.
+
+>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaines%27_Mill#Battle
+>As they proceeded eastward and approached Gaines' Mill at about the time that D.H. Hill's men were engaged, Porter formally asked McClellan to send Slocum's division across the Chickahominy over Alexander's Bridge to support him. Hill directed the brigades of Maxcy Gregg and Lawrence O'Bryan Branch to spearhead the assault, as they had not been engaged at Beaver Dam Creek and were well-rested. 
+Again, an active general.
+--- 14920836
+>>14919072
+If he was so bad, why did he get such good results? When he was removed, why was no other Union general able to pull off what he pulled off even with 2x the manpower?
+>>14919165
+by someone who literally lies about McClellan's participating in battle and is just factually incorrect claiming McClellan was "hundreds of miles away" when he was off scouting less than 20 miles away.
+>>14920652
+Why?
+--- 14921183
+>>14919070
+>>14919071
+>>14919072
+You clearly havent read anything written after 1960, the mcclellan on the ship thing was debunked and the captured orders thing has also been totally debunked at this point, McClellan moved quickly and promptly and the orders were basically a nothingburger lacking in detail, several days old and mostly confirming what was already known
+--- 14921283
+>>14915682 (OP)
+McClellan's greatest mistake was having politics contrary to those of King Lincoln, and also having the charisma and ambition to be a threat to his power. And for that the smears against him started immediately and continued for the next hundred and fifty years or so, and it's only relatively recently that people have started to look beyond the line of the Cult of Lincoln and start to reassess his abilities and his accomplishments as a general.
+--- 14922017
+>>14915682 (OP)
+>McClellan examples are all cherry picked from the early war before anyone knew what they were doing and one was basically a minor skirmish in a backwater theater
+>Other two were still strategic losses because Little Mac withdrew even after "winning" the battle
+>Grant examples are all major battles against entrenched positions at the end of the war when the Confederates have 3 years of experience and are fighting defensively in excellent defensive positions
+
+Gee I wonder why? No one hates on McClellan's actual battlefield tactics (other than at Antietam maybe), although his tactics were kind of uninspired. They hate McClellan because he wouldn't fight, and when forced to fight he would completely frieze up afterwords and was a strategic hot mess. McClellan was an organizer, logistical expert, and an excellent engineer. But he was awful as a field commander. I will also posit that McClellan's decent battlefield performances were more because of the caliber of a handful of the Union Corps commanders, sheer dumb luck, and the relative inexperience of both armies during his tenure. 
+
+Grant was even worse as a strategist and engineer, but he was a better field commander in the sense that he understood his staff and Corps commanders and was willing to let them do what the do best. He also had the willingness to expend lives and material that McClellan lacked. 
+
+To paraphrase Lee, a good general (McClellan) must love the army, a great general must be willing to order the death of the thing he loves (Grant).
+--- 14922085
+>>14918429
+>if you take the capital you win!
+See, this is the kind of thinking that middle schools instill in children because it's simple enough for even a mediocre teacher to explain. The problem is not rethinking this and questioning the idea at least by the time you finish high school.
+>>14918674
+>what is a war of attrition?
+Grant couldn't deal a decisive blow to the Confederacy either. Confederate armies were never destroyed, they were still physically and logistically capable of fighting, but surrendered because they had finally gotten to the economic breaking point after years of war and there was no hope to win.
+--- 14922137
+>>14922017
+>>McClellan examples are all cherry picked from the early war 
+It wasn't right after the beginning of the war, it was after Lee was put in command of the Army of Northern Virginia, but before the Confederacy became crippled and drained of resources. The "early war" that you are dismissing was the highest point of the confederacy and the only time they had some semblance of a chance of winning the war.
+>>before anyone knew what they were doing
+Jackson, Lee and McClellan certainly knew what they were doing.
+>>and one was basically a minor skirmish in a backwater theater
+Virginia is a backwater theater? LMAO
+>>Grant examples are all major battles against entrenched positions at the end of the war when the Confederates have 3 years of experience
+Are you actually going to argue that the confederacy was in a better situation in 1864 than in 1862?
+>He also had the willingness to expend lives and material that McClellan lacked. 
+>You win when you destroy your own army.
+--- 14922165
+>>14922017
+lolno Grant was a much better strategist because he understood that it wasn't enough to occupy enemy territory, you also had to cripple his ability to wage war. he also knew that the entire Union war machine had to work as a whole instead of the various armies fighting their own separate wars with no coordination.
+--- 14922168
+>>14917195
+The wars that created Germany and Italy were pretty important tbqh
+--- 14922181
+>>14922017
+Napoleon once said "Anyone whose eyes fill with tears at the sight of the battlefield will never be a great general."
+--- 14922186
+>>14919072
+>But once you do, he's hands down *the* worst army level general to have held command in the war on either side.
+Now you are being absolutely delusional.
+McClellan never had a military disaster anywhere close to shit like this. Again, the biggest criticism made against him is that "he was too slow, too hesitant, didn't want to fully commit his troops", you can't seriously claim that's worse than the generals who committed their troops and got btfod against inferior forces.
+--- 14922198
+>>14918673
+Most of the actual fighting in the Seven Days Battles was done by Fitz-John Porter and McClellan had almost no involvement outside sitting in his HQ at Harrison's Landing writing fulminating letters to his wife about how Lincoln and Stanton wouldn't let him have an additional 50,000 troops and it was all their fault if this campaign was lost.
+--- 14922211
+>>14922137
+>the only time they had some semblance of a chance of winning the war
+Only because they mobilized faster (and had a temporary numerical advantage), and had higher moral. But their tactics were absolute dogshit in the early years and you know it. They still thought it was 1840 and fought like it. At First Bull Run the majority of volleys didn't even hit anything and went over the heads of the opposing armies. During the Peninsula campaign much of the Confederate army was armed with fucking smooth bores and shotguns. Their artillery was almost useless because they couldn't hit shit. 
+
+So yeah, the Confederates had some advantages early in the war, but ultimately at that point NO ONE knew what they doing.
+
+>Jackson, Lee and McClellan certainly knew what they were doing
+Jackson was insanely aggressive and took crazy risks at a time when most commanders were totally new to the game and overly cautious. His reputation is entirely due to the fact that he died before any one of his plans backfired. He unironically ordered SPEARS to arm some of his Men.
+
+>Lee and McClellan
+They had some idea of what they were doing, particularly in logistics and engineering, but both commanders wouldn't really get "good" until after the Peninsula campaign.
+
+>confederacy was in a better situation in 1864 than in 1862
+No, I said their tactics were defensive. What do you think is going to cause higher casualties, attacking amateurs who are assaulting your entrenchments over open fields or attacking veterans who are behind their own entrenchments and have 3 years of experience in how best to inflict massive casualties?
+
+>Virginia is a backwater theater
+West Virginia you tit
+
+>>14922165
+Yeah, to a certain extent I would agree with that. Grant was better at Grand Strategy. But his local strategy was never all that great.
+>inb4 Vicksburg
+Vicksburg was mostly failure until he finally got across the river.
+--- 14922214
+>>14918619
+>McClellan was sabotaged by the War Dept because they just didnt like him.
+
+Most of the West Pointers were Democrats, a few like David Hunter, Burnside, and George Meade were not. Grant and Sherman had not started out Republicans or abolitionists either however they adapted themselves to the administration's program and didn't sit around carping about it.
+--- 14922232
+>>14922214
+observe that Hunter and Burnside kept getting assignments despite their gross ineptitude because they were on the right side of polly ticks
+--- 14922240
+>>14922232
+Nah, everyone knows Burnside kept getting appointments because of his glorious facial hair.
+--- 14922258
+Burnside was probably right that he didn't belong in command of more than a brigade but also he was stabbed in the back by all the McClellan groupies in the AoP during the Fredericksburg campaign, most notably William Franklin and of course Joe Hooker who wanted command of the army for himself. They were all Democrats and also displeased about the Emancipation Proclamation.
+--- 14922276
+>>14922214
+Meade was part of an old blue blood Philadelphia family that had once been Federalists and eventually Republicans. Despite his politics he was respected by his subordinates for all the times he was in the thick of battle during the AoP's various campaigns and for being an Eastern blue blood in an army dominated by these types.
+--- 14922339
+>>14922186
+>McClellan never had a military disaster anywhere close to shit like this
+He had 20000 troops in reserve at antetam,the confederate centre had been weakened to preserve its flanks, he failed, the ANV withdrew the next day instead of being destroyed by a derisive attack, which, like his failure at the peninsular could have ended the war
+--- 14922363
+>>14922339
+>why didn't he do this maneuver? When you look at a bird's eye view of the battlefield with full knowledge of the position of each unit of both armies and hindsight that the enemy are going to retreat it all looks so obvious!
+--- 14922397
+>>14922363
+Whats the point in having troops loitering in reserve if you dont use them?
+--- 14922408
+>>14922363
+I remember attending a ranger walk at Gettysburg where some kid was like, "what if they had machine guns," and the ranger responded with "what if they had radios is far more interesting of a question."
+
+>>14922397
+Contingency. Plug gaps, extend your line, respond to retreats or unexpected flank attacks, etc. Also to act as a rear guard if you need to retreat.
+--- 14922416
+>>14922397
+To plug the gap if the enemy breaks through one of your formations or to check the advance of an enemy unit you didn't know existed before commiting to battle.
+Reserves aren't used to pull fancy tactics, they are kept back for a sudden emergency, that's why they are called "reserves".
+--- 14922585
+>>14922017
+>cherrypicked
+Cherrypicked from what? He was never allowed to serve on the front again when he was removed.
+>before anyone knew what they were doing
+???
+They had a solid core of veteran officers from multiple wars on both sides and McClellan took command months into the war, it wasnt like they were one off victories in the opening moves of the conflict, There had already been large scale engagements such as Manassas, Shiloh and to a lesser extent Wilsons Creek which was really one of the first battles to employ thousand man sweeping maneuvers.
+>strategic losses
+You mean like Hannibal lost because Cannae was just a field and he immediately gave it up and moved somewhere else?
+McClellans strategy was to move his way toward Richmond, inflict heavy casualties, and lose the fewest men possible, he did this expertly.
+He never met with disaster, he never lost the upper hand, and he never allowed his enemy to rest or assert their will, McClellan's force was always an immovable juggernaut which could only herded with great effort and the most one sided casualty ratios ever inflicted on the confederates.
+>uninspired
+They are novel and he demonstrated an ability to do more than try to 'Win Waterloo'.
+He was more of a Gustavus Adolphus in Poland.
+>he wouldnt fight
+He fought for Seven days straight and had a Lee vs Grant tier KDR.
+how is this not the ideal general given the advantages of the North?
+Sherman made a prediction prior to the war stating the South would have extreme early success, they would have their best chance at victory during the opening, however as the war dragged on the Union manpower and industrial power would assert itself, the South could not produce or bleed like the Union could. 
+McClellan and his Fabien tactics were the ideal for the Union, forcing the South into pitched battles and utilizing the extreme advantage in Union manpower and economy.
+Grant didnt love the army.
+--- 14922605
+>>14922585
+>Fabien tactics were the ideal for the Union, forcing the South into pitched battles
+I'm not sure you know what a Fabian strategy is
+--- 14922619
+>>14922085
+Taking the capitol would have been catastrophic for the Confederacy because it was also the largest industrial and supply center in Virginia and losing Richmond would mean Virginia is indefensible as the Union now control the railways and can use the river system to lock out the Confederates, Virginia alone produced more than the rest of the Confederacy combined, they lose Virginia, they lose over half of their material capability.
+That is not something you come back from
+McClellan didnt fail as much as he was sabotaged and did the prudent thing which is withdraw and find out who in the war dept was withholding his supplies.
+
+If McClellan had the full support of the Republicans, he gets 150,000 men in Virginia, supplied by ship, with a secure supply route, and digs in on peninsulas on jumping their way to Richmond and moving heavy naval guns up, Richmond is bombarded indefinitely, the Confederates are totally unable to dislodge 150,000 men from Virginia, and the war concludes whenever the Confederates decide Richmond is -ACKmutt and they lose 60% of their country's war-making ability.
+--- 14922633
+>>14922165
+>cripple his ability to wage war
+which Grant never did, the Confederates were never in a position where they could not fight, Lee surrendered when they were in a position where their chance at White Peace was 0%, not at the point where they could not fight.
+He even stated they could make a breakthrough and realistically had a good chance of breaking Sheridan and making it beyond the mountains or further South, neither instance sees a Confederate victory in anything but the few days of "respite" they manage while seeing their homeland pass in myth.
+--- 14922640
+>>14920829
+I will reply to this post only and ignore the rest of your samefagging just to drive the point home that the limit for your historical knowledge is skimming over Wikipedia pages;
+
+In Mechanicsville, McClellan wasn't present in command, it was, in fact, the very first instance in the entirety of the campaign where he personally witnessed any combat. Unless if you count the few times where he arrived on a battle's aftermath to absorb all the credit (Williamsburg).
+
+In Gaines' Mill, McClellan's headquarters was based south of the Chickahominy, some considerable distance from the battlefield. He was completely clueless that a battle was raging there throughout the day, and thought it was just a rebel demonstration.
+
+>scouting Harrison's landing
+Why would McClellan scout his own last headquarters near Haxhall's? this is the final straw that demonstrates how clueless you are on this topic, you have literally no idea what you are talking about.
+--- 14922660
+>>14922339
+>McClellan didnt see through the fog of war with 30k gold spies
+damn.
+McClellan's Reserves were being held not for a decisive strike but to prevent disaster as he didn't know what the confederates were going to try, he did this as a direct result of Manassas where Pope smelled blood in the water and as it turns out, it was his own, and the Union nearly lost some 70k men, an entire army by a few hours, if Lee had been faster, if Longstreet rode faster, Hood pushed his men further, if the cavalry pushes for the river crossings, it would have been war ending.
+If the AOP goes down at Manassas, Washington is empty, there are no close reserves, and Lee could hurl himself all the way to Boston unopposed.
+--- 14922667
+>>14922408
+nah, based kid, machine guns are cooler.
+--- 14922688
+>>14922605
+trading ground for blood.
+>>14922640
+>wasnt present
+>literally giving orders
+make that make sense.
+>his HQ wasnt in the front lines
+no one's HQ was ever in the front lines, you didnt even know Lee's HQ was further from the battle than McClellan's at Antietam in the last thread until I MYSELF told (You).
+>why would he scout somewhere he had already been
+because there is a fog of war and this isnt a videogame where the map is "explored".
+
+McClellan's command speaks for itself, when he was in charge, the Union was winning, and winning bigly. When he was removed, the tables were totally turned and even with a 3:1 advantage the Union NEVER came close to inflicting the same amount of damage McClellan did while taking comparable losses to McClellan.
+
+>you literally have no idea
+You confused 100 miles with 17 miles.
+You are literally too uninformed to discuss ACW history.
+Go back to 1970.
+--- 14922720
+>>14922688
+--- 14922722
+>>14922720
+nothing was moved, my arguments were entirely in the defense of McClellan, I pushed for nothing in the affirmative.
+--- 14922795
+>>14922640
+what book is that pic from?
+--- 14922850
+>>14922585
+>Cherrypicked from what?
+You chose McClellan's 3 best performances and 3 of Grants worst you absolut nigger.
+>he never allowed his enemy to rest or assert their will
+Uh, the 7 days and the entire aftermath of the Maryland campaign? Also McClellan's performance on the Peninsula was hilariously bad. He could have (and should have) taken Richmond in a matter of days and instead spent months jerking off and advancing a meter a day.
+>McClellan and his Fabien tactics were the ideal for the Union
+They weren't Fabien tactics and, ultimately, you have to you know, actually kill the enemy at some point to win. 
+
+Also, you are completely ignoring the political realities of the war. No one gave a flying fuck about k/d ratios. Northern moral was low and they needed decisive battlefield victories whether or not it was more convenient strategically for Mac to sit behind entrenchments for years and wait for the Confederates to come to him. You have to remember that at this point in the war it was looking increasingly likely that Britain and France would come into the war on the side of the Confederacy, or at least ally with them. Union manpower and industry wasn't a totally sure bet at that point and hindsight is 20/20. There was also the issue of enlistment periods. The Union needed victory before the enlistments were up and the Army depleted. The point is, the Union political situation was such that the public wanted victory sooner rather than later and doing nothing like Little Mac was actually worse than loosing a battle, because at least loosing was doing SOMETHING. He then compounded the issue by refusing to work with the political system. You complain about how the bureaucrats and politicians back stabbed McClellan, conveniently glossing over the fact that Mac went out of his way to alienate and belittle them. What the fuck did he expect?
+--- 14922911
+>>14922850
+abe looked much darker than this, and his face was significantly more haggard. I hate how these reconstructions often make people look babyfaced and paler than they were.
+--- 14923119
+>>14917334
+
+BASED
+--- 14923654
+>>14915682 (OP)
+I remember him from Smash Bros.. Terrible character to play as except maybe if you really know what you're doing.
+--- 14923665
+>>14922688
+>trading ground for blood.
+You should google "fabian strategy" genius

his/14916549.txt

@@ -210,3 +210,760 @@ That or they took part in (successful) revolutionary or independence movements,
 --- 14918046
 >>14917362
 I'm not sure it contibuted more federal income but it did have more manufacturing power than the entire Confederacy. I've read a number of books on the Civil War and, while I am not in the mood to find a source at this very movement, I just want to corroborate the point that the poster you responded to made. If this thread is still up tomorrow and I'm in the mood, I'll see if I can find you that source.
+--- 14919321
+>>14916549 (OP)
+Because the North gave up on subjugating the South.
+Much like America in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq.
+
+The US Government beat the Army but then went "Ahhhhh jeez man, it's kinda a lot of money and energy to keep up this nationbuilding thing" after like 10 years.
+
+Once the US pulled back and took down the military governments in southern states the southerners just went right back to southerning.
+The same way Afghans and Vietnamese did.
+
+The US didn't have the treasury, political capital, or lives to buck break the south like we did with Germany or to flood them with cash and make them vassals like we did with Korea or Japan.
+
+So once we left, they just went right back to normal except every family had a story about how the yankees murdered their grandpa.
+--- 14919337
+>>14916549 (OP)
+Northerners were willing to entertain Southern delusions for the sake of national unity and reintegration basically. It's the American equivalent to how Canada has to bribe Quebec with billions of gibs dollars every year just to keep them quiet and stop them from chimping out. 
+Additionally, the US military has always had an enormous representation of Southerners in it (because poverty and underdeveloped economy = military career in most cases). Therefore, obviously they liked to honor their own team and ancestors.
+--- 14919346
+>>14916589
+Fun fact: the first big academic to actually point out that the Confederacy was rich slave owners fighting to keep their slaves, and sacrificing the Southern youth in the process, was a purebred WASP from North Carolina.
+Schizoing out over Jews in the shadows is entertaining, but come on now.
+--- 14919352
+>>14916549 (OP)
+>Usually the losers don't write the history books
+Clearly you don't know anything about the Jews then.
+--- 14919360
+>>14916633
+Don't forget that time Union General Grant literally expelled all Jews from a state lol
+--- 14919366
+>>14916660
+Uh gee, I wonder why the South was agricultural huh. I wonder if that agricultural economy shares anything in common with the agricultural economy of Brazil or Cuba too.
+--- 14919382
+>>14916720
+>Pretends "Birth of a Nation" isn't literally the first blockbuster movie in history 
+>Pretends Virginian Woodrow Wilson wasn't President
+>Pretend Theodore Roosevelt didn't have Confederate ancestors 
+>Pretends Southerners couldn't move states to work in Indiana, Michigan, etc. and pass down their identity and culture to their kids 
+>Ignores Vanderbilt, University of Virginia, Duke, Washington & Lee and VMI
+--- 14919392
+>>14916744
+>The main reason people did not want new slave states is because they did not want to live around black people.
+Exactly, so what the fuck is the point of defending the Confederacy LMAO. They wanted to turn North America into fucking South Africa.
+Every white supremacist in America should be eternally grateful the great Union Army put a stop to that before the dreaded "Golden Circle" Nightmare became a reality.
+--- 14919402
+>>14916765
+>Why exactly is the US Civil War treated any differently than the anti-serfdom conflicts also being waged in Europe during the mid 19th century?
+Because Russian nobility is all dead or exiled permanently and Russian descendants of serfs aren't treated as a separate racial ethnic group, theyre just the bog standard Russian people. 
+Blacks in America, as many Anons on this website will gleefully point out themselves, still aren't fully accepted as "true American".
+--- 14919410
+>>14916549 (OP)
+the weak shall fear the strong, thats simple
+--- 14919418
+>>14916932
+Libertarianism in the USA just means "I want to keep my property", not actual Liberal principles regarding individual freedom. 
+Slaves are property.
+--- 14919426
+>>14916962
+You think that because you're a Zoomer born in 2000 and obviously know nothing of the world before that time. Robert E. Lee was still "an American hero" well into the 1980s, while Winfield Scott (also a Virginian, also a great general who actually won his war, but a Unionist loyalist) remains forgotten entirely
+--- 14919431
+>>14919392
+>Dood ur like white supremacists
+Fuck off nigger
+--- 14919442
+>>14917258
+>Especially since Confederates were not particularly ashamed of their way of life, why would they have reason to lie?
+Well exactly, the actual confederates of 1861 didn't hide any of it, they very openly spell it out in their Cornerstone speech and declarations of secession. They want to keep Africans as slaves and see the mere possibility of abolitionism as reason to rebel.
+It's their descendants who had to make vague shit up and beat around the bush while pretending that it was a mere coincidence that every single secessionist state said they seceded to preserve "the peculiar institution".
+--- 14919479
+>>14919321
+We didn't even "buck break" Germany. Most West German government officials, businessmen, and army officers were former NSDAP and Wehrmacht veterans. Germany just didn't chimp out again because they understood that they'd all fucking die in nuclear hellfire if they even thought about trying anything fishy.
+--- 14919484
+>>14919442
+Remember that abolitionism as a movement was founded on the belief that Europeans invented the slave trade in Africa and it didn't exist before they arrived. Therefore it was in the abolitionist's view that niggers were uniquely innocent and tortured beings at the hands of evil white people which is why nobody with half a brain agreed with them, because was obviously propaganda.
+--- 14919486
+>>14919431
+We're on 4chan, Anon. You don't have to pretend you're not racist, like 80% of this website (including the non-white users) is a white supremacist kek
+--- 14919489
+>>14917258
+maybe because most southerners today want their reputation as ""clean"" as possible
+--- 14919494
+>>14919486
+>Come to 4chan
+>Screech about racism
+Fuck off nigger
+--- 14919497
+>>14919484
+>Remember that abolitionism as a movement was founded on the belief that Europeans invented the slave trade in Africa and it didn't exist before they arrived
+What the fuck are you on? Abolitionism was founded because people thought slavery was wrong, it's simple as that. Nobody thought slavery didn't exist in Africa before, there's a reason why the British literally raided and conquered multiple slave trading ports on the West African coast. 
+Abolitionism in the US was particularly fueled by the US's own foundational document. Thomas Jefferson spells it out in bold ink, "-that all Men are created equal and endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable rights that among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness".
+Fucking Lafayette was already calling Jefferson a blatant hypocrite in the 1700s.
+--- 14919512
+>>14919494
+He's not screeching, he's laughing it off. However, the fact that you're chimping out in such a hostile manner to the fact that he's calling you out for what you are, is very funny.
+--- 14919513
+>>14919512
+>Come to 4chan
+>Screech about racism
+nigger
+--- 14919518
+>>14919497
+Nope, abolitionism was based on the false belief that Europeans started the slave trade in Africa and were nabbing niggers out of their villages at gunpoint personally, which is a lie
+--- 14919520
+>>14919518
+No it wasn't.
+--- 14919524
+>>14919520
+Cope retard
+--- 14919531
+>>14919518
+Aaahh yes, I sense it, this aura... It's a Monolingual burger! By God, he cannot read any primary source outside his own language, nor can he comprehend past politics outside of a contemporary culture war lense!
+--- 14919533
+>>149194840
+Abolitionism was founded on Christianity. Northern and even southern Christians were appalled at the poor treatment of blacks by plantation owners.
+--- 14919540
+>>14919518
+No one believed this. The US literally went to war with the Barbary pirates to stop them from raiding and capturing American merchants.
+--- 14919555
+I think the civil war is more interesting if you see all the attempts the North and South had at stopping it over the decades leading up to it but time and time again failed to compromise. If anything the war is a complete failure of American democracy to solve complex issues. It is really more of a tragedy than anything else when you read about how most of the Confederate leadership did not even want to secede and were pushed by radicals and events like Harper's raid and the Hati crisis into revolting. Lincoln was a tyrant and looked for an excuse to settle the secession question once and for all with a hard 'no' enforced with an invasion of his own countrymen.
+
+It was about slavery, but it was also about how every institution and leader in power failed to resolve the issue whatsoever. The monarchies in europe laughed at the american experiment for some time during and after the war for this situation. 
+
+also this thread is full of annoying 'my side won and your side lost' in a war that's centuries old and that's really tedious and stupid
+--- 14919558
+The Lost Cause narrative cast the North in a favorable light as well. Hey, we didn’t crush a bunch of barefoot hillbillies led by brutal slavers, it was brother against brother, a tragic misunderstanding where the forces of good finally triumphed over brave but misguided salt of the earth Americans led by noble cavaliers, and now we’re one nation again. Letting southerners indulge in the Lost Cause cooled post reconstruction butthurt and kept those southern boys filing the ranks in our military adventures.
+--- 14919565
+>>14916549 (OP)
+there is no such thing, the term, "lost caus myth" is a antiamerican dog whistle used to erase and attack any and all remembrances of Americans in this country 
+don't be fooled
+--- 14919578
+>>14919540
+The foundations of abolitionism are that white people are the ones that created African slavery. In order to justify their beliefs they needed whites to be uniquely guilty. In similar fashion it mirrors anti colonialist socialist propaganda
+--- 14919579
+>>14919555
+>The monarchies in europe laughed at the american experiment for some time during and after the war for this situation.
+Pretty bold of them given how Germany could only be united by Prussia tricking everyone into chimping out first and then slaughtering them in battle, while the British had a ticking time bomb in Ireland kek
+--- 14919591
+>>14916733
+This shit isn't serious. You're viewing slavery as it's own single instutiton rather than what it really is. It was about blacks and their ability to vote. There were many compromises on what black people could do politically and it was deeply concerning to the south who had an increasingly large minority of blacks who were a large potential voter base in a democracy where votes = power. Those black slaves now freed likely weren't going to be voting for you and they would be supporting the North which tipped the increasingly fragile power balance far in northern favor.
+
+Slavery represented many things. It was not about 'ownership of blacks' entirely, considering that the majority of Confederates did not even own slaves is telling here. It was about 'we have several million of a population that we can't account for, doesn't align with us culturally or politically, and we have no solution for dealing with once the war was over'
+
+and of course, when the war was over. No one had a solution for dealing with them and issue wasted away for decades before and after the war. It was a disgrace either way even if you're super pro Union or sympathetic to the Confederacy. It was spurred by stupid radicals who had no plans for the future, were scared of losing power, and people who would not compromise over values that could not be compromised.
+
+Also you probably don't even have ancestors who fought in the war, shitskin
+--- 14919610
+>>14919591
+>Fill your country with blacks 
+>After slave trade is abolished, Southern planters breed them into bigger and dumber slaves
+>Whine when you have to live around the blacks you brought over
+The fact is that every single thing you don't like about the modern US was caused by Southern planters. They wanted to LARP as English aristocrats and breed an army of orcs instead of contributing positively to the nation. The Southerners weren't victims, they were the root cause of America's race issues.
+--- 14919617
+>>14919610
+It's interesting how much of your personality is trying to blame people on 4chan of being guilty of slavery
+--- 14919625
+>>14919610
+You are correct in slavery was wrong in importing thousands of blacks and deserved to be abolished for that alone
+
+However to blame all southerners for that is pretty jewish of you. Especially considering jews were pretty extensively involved in the early slave trade 
+
+Also I didn't fucking own slaves nor do I advocate slavery, retard. I'm sad there was a stupid fucking war at all caused by idiots on both sides and you should be too if you value european americans whatsoever instead of bashing boogeyman southerners
+--- 14919635
+>>14919617
+Why are there so many contrarians here that attempt to defend American slavery 158 years after its death? There are constant threads on /his/ about how slavery wasn't that big of a deal or that it was a net positive, which is bizarre since there are so many so called "Christians" here too.
+--- 14919636
+>>14919625
+Pretty much all Southerners except Appalachians supported slavery though
+--- 14919640
+>>14919610
+It's unironically Biblical justice what happened to the Southern plantation class lol. Literally had their society destroyed by their greed and lust for money.
+--- 14919647
+>>14919635
+>If you dismantle my 1619 project black nationalist propaganda you support slavery
+Can you rob a target or something so we don't have to deal with your inane slander any longer?
+--- 14919731
+>>14919647
+He's not wrong about this board being filled with genuine apologists though. This isn't reddit, we really do have people who deny the Holocaust or support slavery here kek
+--- 14919734
+>>14919636
+so you don't have reading comprehension? underaged esl
+--- 14919741
+>>14916549 (OP)
+Confederates and their descendants being reintegrated into the political sphere
+--- 14919743
+>>14919731
+>He's
+Samefag I know it's you. You accuse random posters of supporting slavery and they reply with "well it's a general support of slavery". Nigger if you want internet points for being a broken nigger record might I suggest Twitter or reddit?
+--- 14919753
+>>14919743
+>
+--- 14919761
+>>14919753
+you can hide the (You) with a vpn or just using a different device to access the site it's not hard
+--- 14919769
+>>14919753
+Cope nigger. Reply with something that isn't you backpedaling getting off accusing random posters of supporting slavery and then pretending to be the victim
+
+Disgusting faggot
+--- 14919785
+1. blacks are an inferior race
+
+2. no matter how inferior they are, slavery is a retarded system because it inevitably falls apart, and then you have a completely FUCKED society and misegenation
+
+3. the South didn't give a shit because it was never about a genuine belief in racial superiority, but sheer greed from (((plantation owners))) and slave traders
+
+4. the same (((people))) that dragged white southerners to their death, were meanwhile fucking their own slaves and engaging in race treason themselves on their plantations
+
+5. the North would have sent all the blacks back to Africa, but because the CW was delayed so long, it became impossible logistically
+
+basically, fuck the south and every race traitor that defends their scam "heritage"
+--- 14919851
+>>14917302
+>ratio of 3:1
+Many parts of the south were and are still mostly black are you retarded?
+--- 14919853
+>>14919785
+>pro white and anti black
+>decries half the US whites as 'race traitors'
+
+I don't like what slavery did either but how do you not see the obvious contradiction here
+--- 14919860
+>>14917696
+Well given that he didn't really succeed at anything and Isreal didn't even exist at the time I think it wasn't really the same...
+--- 14919861
+>>14919853
+It's probably the nigger samefagging again. You never know because it's possible there's actually that many retards that post here
+--- 14919863
+>>14919853
+>decries half the US whites as 'race traitors'
+this is not what i said, i said the plantation class (race traitors) led the rest of the white south in a pointless war
+--- 14919864
+>>14919785
+The only repatriation/resettlement plans from the feds were focused on Central America, and they never really reached the planning stage.
+--- 14919888
+>>14919864
+Of course not, because a central part of the radical republican's plan for "reconstruction" was to use blacks as mobile voter fraud cattle to roam around and flip elections in their favorm they even tried it to a limited degree in the north
+--- 14919892
+>>14919863
+then why do you celebrate sherman who burned down white cities and white women and children?
+
+and lincoln who had ties to marx and other jews?
+--- 14919920
+>>14919888
+The South had been unfairly advantaged in every election before the war thanks to the 3/5ths compromise. The South would have had barely any political power if they couldn't use blacks to inflate their population.
+--- 14919937
+>>14919920
+>ITS NOT FAIR YOU SHOULD LET ME STEAL ELECTIONS
+Fuck off nigger
+--- 14919944
+>>14919888
+This was before the end of the war, when Lincoln was still alive.
+--- 14919954
+>>14919944
+Revisionists try to claim that before Lincoln died these policies weren't in place, but there's no evidence of this
+
+They even try to claim Lincoln was a "good" republican in an attempt to white wash his image, despite being the leader of the radical republicans
+--- 14920025
+>>14919937
+So you think the South rigging every election before 1868 was good then?
+--- 14920028
+>>14920025
+>The constitution is a vote rigging system
+Only a dumb commie nigger revisionist would claim this
+--- 14920031
+>>14920028
+It was. The 3/5ths Compromise allowed the South to have more representatives in Congress and more electoral votes than they actually deserved.
+--- 14920033
+>>14920031
+Thanks for admitting being a dumb commie nigger
+--- 14920090
+>>14919892
+good question, anon, the sense of sadism I get from that sort of talk always unsettles me
+--- 14920188
+>>14916549 (OP)
+>history books
+--- 14920384
+>>14916660
+>It was an economic industrial north vs agricultural south
+The North was and is agricultural too, fucknuts. The whole Midwest was pro-ag and sided with Democrats on most material issues including the important trade matters. Democrats could consistently get their way as long as they were legislating or compromising to the betterment of the agricultural interests, and hence they were in control during the whole run-up to secession. Southern Democrats chose to split it up and antagonize their Northern copartisans over slavery. It was mainly the Midwestern free states and territories that were threatened or even terrorized by Southern slavery interests. Pro-slavery Southerners showed their colors during crises like Bleeding Kansas and over the years they only got more exapseratingly self-righteous about being nihilistic ooga-booga bandits.
+
+Southern slavery politics promoted Republican sympathies in the North even though abolition was yes a relatively small movement, and even though most free-staters and free-soilers had no interest in interfering with slavery in Southern states. Southern pols and institutions like press were such utter cunts about slavery that it drove the ambivalent into Lincoln's arms. Southerners fucked themselves by demoting all their other interests to the expansion of slavery, and their aggressive stances on controlling anti-slavery sentiments in other states they had no fucking right to run. And in case it hasn't hit home yet, it was all about the fucking slaves. Fuck you.
+--- 14920393
+>>14920384
+bleeding kansas was caused by northern abolitionist cultists illigally trafficking weapons to kansas
+--- 14920398
+>>14919578
+That was never the foundation of abolitionism. You are confusing today with the 19th century. Thanks for visiting /his/.
+--- 14920410
+>>14920398
+Sorry but the entire abolitionist movement was founded on the belief that whites, sometimes specifically anglos, created the slave trade in africa despite it being the entirety of their economy before whites arrived and that whites personally were kidnapping blacks out of straw huts
+--- 14920413
+>>14916660
+How do you get around that the Confederate constitution did not grant it's states anymore rights other than allowing the owning of slaves?
+It's almost identical to the US Constitution.
+
+It was a confedracy in name only.
+--- 14920431
+>>14920410
+>I'm sorry but I'm wrong and very confused
+I'm sorry too.
+--- 14920436
+>>14920431
+I'm sorry you're retarded and wrong and don't have an argument
+--- 14920451
+>>14920413
+They did tinker a little bit like creating a new recall process for federal appointees to state offices. There was something about interstate commerce, between the lines that probably was a nod to slavery itself. But yeah it was barely anything.
+
+Some dickheads like to think of Secession and the war as a revolution. It's more accurate to view the creation of the Confederacy as a radical gerrymander. They didn't object to the system of government, they just wanted to engineer a constituency that would mathematically only ever be able to vote their way...on this one issue.
+--- 14920555
+I mean if you're going to faff on about muh lost causers being traitors those states on average provide 20% more soldiers for the army than other states and have solidly for multiple decades. (looking to change with how the army is undermining their values though)
+--- 14920663
+>>14920413
+Tariffs and internal improvements are mentioned prior to slavery. The economies were so different that the American System pushed by Republicans in the North would have thoroughly fucked the South. They were so different they could not be reconciled together.
+--- 14920683
+>>14920663
+>Critics of internal improvement schemes did not have to dig deep under the veneer of "public good" to uncover self-interest. Washington's scheme for Potomac River improvement also happened to pass conveniently by his Mount Vernon estate and extend westward toward some 60,000 acres (24,000 ha) of undeveloped land in his possession. By the end of the 1790s, leaders of the emerging Democratic-Republican Party regularly assaulted the "monied gentry" and their improvement plans as visionary and extravagant, and gradually eroded public confidence in government action and authority. In their assaults on the Federalists' national agenda, Old Republicans perfected a language of opposition that provided the template for almost all future critiques of federal power: fear of centralized power; burdening taxpayers; taxing one locale for the benefit of another; creating self-perpetuating bureaucracies; distant governments undermining local authority; and subsidizing the schemes of the wealthy at public expense
+--- 14920700
+>>14920683
+>Despite opposition, from 1816 to 1824 congressional interest in roads and canals escalated. The General Survey Act of 1824, which empowered Army engineers to survey lands for potential road and canal routes, represented a key victory. Meanwhile, work on the National Road continued. By 1833 it reached Columbus, Ohio, and by mid-century it stretched to Vandalia, Illinois. Between 1824 and 1828 Congress funded approximately ninety internal improvements projects, including canal construction, river and harbor development, and especially road construction. Throughout the Union, particularly in the West, federal funds and the labor of federal troops built roads between states.
+--- 14920740
+>>14920700
+>In An Act of March 3, 1819, for support of the government for 1819, Congress approved appropriations for the road from Cumberland to the Ohio River, including $250,000 for existing construction contracts and $285,000 for completion of the road
+>On November 30, 1819, Secretary Crawford asked Alexander Lacock, Thomas McGiffin, and Thomas Wilson to undertake an investigation. Crawford explained that in view of the doubts, “injurious to the interest of the United States, it has been judged expedient by the President, as well from a sense of justice to the late superintendent as from a due regard to the national interests, that a full and complete examination be made into the premises, in order that justice may be done.” 
+>We are decidedly of opinion that unnecessary expense to a large amount has been incurred in the erection of bridges, when culverts would have been sufficient; side walls, when fillings of earth would have been less expensive, more permanent, and, in many instances, would have been effected at the expense of the road contractor; in unnecessary increase of dimensions of side and wing walls; the erection of expensive bridges where the stream might have been turned or avoided at a much less expense; and in the number of arches to each bridge. Deviations from the location are by Mr. Thompson admitted in several instances, one of which he admits to been adopted without advising the Department. The effects of such deviations we have not ascertained, nor have we been able to examine the reasons assigned by Mr. Thompson in justification of them.
+--- 14920759
+>>14920663
+Southern Democrats were already getting their way on issues like tariff schedules because they shared those interests with Northern Democrats. They had got their way for decades, and like three successive rounds of trade loosening. It's already been pointed out that the North was also farming country and had its significant Democratic base. The split lay between the pro-slavery Democrats and the less-pro-slavery Democrats. Both favored the farming man, but one favored the slaveholder over the farmer. One favored the working settler and one favored the old money estate. Guess what political arithmetic could ensue.
+
+Southerners destroyed their agriculturalist, free-trade, weak-federal-government coalition over slavery. All other principles, interests and basic political literacy were sacrificed to the "honor" of slaveholding.
+
+And for all this the mentions of non-slavery issues in the declarations of causes are merely mentions. No reading of the grievances can lead an honest person to conclude that it wasn't about slavery.
+--- 14920763
+>>14920740
+>The trouble with the national bank began immediately in 1817. Taking advantage of the private authority within this mixed corporation (private stockholders elected four-fifths of the directors), President William Jones and a band of intensely self-interested directors virtually hijacked the new central bank, subverting all requirements (most notoriously the requirement to stock the vault with specie), expanding loans (often to themselves) far in excess of authorized limits, and covering their misappropriations by freely issuing notes to all who desired them.
+>Because of these and other misdeeds, the bank was unable in October 1818 to meet a government call for $2 million to pay off the Louisiana Purchase. The repercussions rippled through the economy as State banks failed; merchants, farmers, and land speculators struggled as prices declined; and increased bankruptcies resulted in more unemployment.
+>On April 4, 1818, the House Committee on Roads, Canals, and Seminaries of Learning had introduced a resolution asking Secretary of War Calhoun and Treasury Secretary Crawford to submit plans “for the application of such means as are within the power of Congress” to make national roads and canals
+--- 14920780
+>>14920763
+>While Congress was tending to construction of the Cumberland Road to Wheeling, it also took up legislation enabling statehood for Illinois (1816) and Indiana (1818), both of which contained language related to roads. The Enabling Act of April 19, 1816, for Indiana contained this provision: five per cent. of the net proceeds of the lands lying within the said territory, and which shall be sold by Congress from and after the first day of December next, after deducting all expenses incident to the same, shall be reserved for making public roads and canals, of which three-fifths shall be applied to those objects within the said state, under the direction of the legislature thereof, and two-fifths to the making of a road or roads leading to the said state under the direction of Congress
+--- 14920821
+>>14920759
+Southern states were absolutely not getting their way on tariffs. As of 1860 when the dominate source of government revenue was through tariffs, Southern states accounted for over 70% of those funds. While a majority of the internal improvements projects funded by those tariffs where done in the North.
+
+No honest person can conclude that the issue of slavery was not an economic and political one. The point is that the characterization of the war being fought on moral grounds is pure revision and incorrect.
+--- 14920838
+>>14920780
+When Alabama and Mississippi had sought appropriations for internal improvements, the Senate voted it down. And yet, “now we see (said Mr. W.) two or three States, that have received donations of millions of acres for purposes of internal improvement, calling upon an exhausted Treasury for a million of dollars which we should have to borrow.” He urged the Senators to “look at the enormity of such a measure, and the prejudicial bearing it would have upon the whole Confederacy.”
+
+The bill, with its supposed reliance on the two-percent fund, was “a palpable fraud upon the very face of the documents, and yet we were called upon to vote for it.” It was not a national object, but would benefit only a few States, with the money coming out of his constituents’ pockets
+--- 14920842
+>>14916589
+all the seething replies prove you correct.
+>it had a pro South bias
+It was historically accurate and its only bias was in not being overtly Hostile to a significant subset of Americans.
+>le hicks
+smarter, less inbred, and more educated than blacks, not even racist, its just a fact. those who love blacks hate Southerners with all their disadvantages still BTFO blacks in every category.
+--- 14920850
+>>14920838
+Clay still hoped to distribute that money to the states for internal improvements and colonization. Widespread support for distribution included some Democrats under political pressure from constituents eager to receive the money. Yet western senators persisted in their wish to reduce the price of federal lands, a move sure to endanger the surplus, and Clay had to fight them at every turn. At the end of March 1836, he stoutly opposed Robert J. Walker’s plan to reduce land prices for people who had settled on public property. Walker wanted to grant them “preemption,” which meant exclusive rights to purchase land at bottom dollar. Clay called these people squatters, a term Walker found objectionable when applied to those he claimed were the backbone of the nation, the very men who had fought under Jackson at New Orleans. Walker exclaimed that if the men Clay derided as squatters had been in Washington in 1814, they would have saved the city from the British torch. The gallery loved this sort of talk, and it greeted Walker’s tribute to patriotic American yeomanry with loud applause. Clay waited for everyone to settle down. He innocently claimed no disrespect to squatters but impishly added that he “hardly thought they would have saved the Capitol unless they had given up their habits of squatting.”
+--- 14920913
+>>14920821
+Pro-Southern Democrats sponsored and endorsed the tariff bills in force over the decades prior to Secession. Tariff rates were at a historical low point by Secession, and the regime was extremely loose compared to the rest of the developed world at this time. You're a fucking idiot.
+>Southern states accounted for over 70% of those funds
+You're literally making this up. New York City alone was contributing a majority of the tariff revenue. Next was Boston. THEN you had Lousiana and Charleston bringing up the rear. The South didn't only not pay a majority of the tariffs, they barely paid a minority. No fucking wonder, because the tariff regime was set up by fucking Southerners.
+>they were mad that there were tariffs at all
+No fucktard, they weren't, because they had set up protective tariffs to favor their own industries. Tariffs cut both ways, remember? Did they cover that for you on fucking facebook or wherever it is you went to school?
+--- 14920956
+>>14916879
+>The Southern racists who lost the Civil war came back to power after the end of Reconstruction and being hated by virtually everyone and seen as totaly losers -- rightfully so.
+Seething Carpetbagger is angry northerners didn't perpetually control the South
+--- 14920974
+>>14920842
+>cope 
+>seethe
+Yep
+It's a Southern post
+--- 14920985
+>>14916694
+>probed 
+Learn to speak English correctly
+--- 14920991
+>>14916549 (OP)
+they lost the civil war, but then they won the reconstruction.
+--- 14921006
+>>14920850
+He heatedly asked why it was proper for those squatters “to seize upon and rob the United States of their possessions.” When Indiana’s John Tipton objected to Clay’s defaming his constituents, Clay heedlessly characterized squatters as a “lawless rabble.” 
+
+That phrase, as the Heidlers noted, would be used against Senator Clay in later debates, during which he was depicted as an enemy of the new States and their inhabitants. Senator Clay would deny using the phrase, but it was cited in the Globe on January 27, 1838.
+
+Senator Campbell summarized the budget situation, saying his colleagues were “sailing under a clear sky, with propitious breezes, over a summer sea. But do you see no speck on the political horizon?” If we contract a national debt, the “compromise act of 1832,” which brought peace to a distracted country, will prove but a rope of sand to an increase of duties. Yea, more, the very next revolution of the political wheel may bring those into power who will not hesitate to direct the duties upon importations, constitutionally imposed only as a means of raising revenue to pay the legitimate expenditures of the Government, to objects of protection.
+--- 14921018
+>>14921006
+Representative Campbell, who listed his party during this Congress as a Nullifier (otherwise he was a Jacksonian or Democrat), probably meant the Compromise of 1833, which helped end the nullification crisis provoked by the 1832 tariff bill. 
+
+“The clamorous importunities of partial interests would again intrude upon our deliberations, and the American Congress be again converted into an arena for the most bitter contests.” The key was to avoid contracting a national debt. He listed bills the House had passed in the last 2 hours, including:
+ 
+ . . appropriations for an exploring expedition, for the employment of naturalists, geologists, botanists, to examine the animals, soils, and plants of distant lands, subjects with which this Government has as much to do with as with the “vespertilio home,” or man-bat of the moon. 
+
+
+The expedition Representative Campbell cited was the United States South Seas Exploring Expedition of 1838-1842. It consisted of six vessels and 346 men, including scientists and artists, whose goal was to provide navigation charts to whalers, sealers, and China traders. His colleagues would have been familiar with the man-bat of the moon.
+
+The “Great Moon Hoax” began in New York’s The Sun newspaper in August 1835. According to the hoax, an astronomer had discovered life on the moon, including man-bats.
+--- 14921030
+>>14921018
+To remove this objection – to make appropriations sufficiently extensive to
+embrace every section of the country having, or claiming to have, objects worthy
+of Governmental patronage, would create a vortex of expenditure that would
+engulf the diamonds of Golconda and the gold of Peru – would require a revenue,
+the collection of which would produce a wide-spread ruin, and, after exhausting
+the resources of the country, would be insufficient to accomplish the object.
+--- 14921057
+>>14920913
+>Pro-Southern Democrats sponsored and endorsed the tariff bills in force over the decades prior to Secession. Tariff rates were at a historical low point by Secession, and the regime was extremely loose compared to the rest of the developed world at this time. You're a fucking idiot.
+>You're literally making this up. New York City alone was contributing a majority of the tariff revenue. Next was Boston. THEN you had Lousiana and Charleston bringing up the rear. The South didn't only not pay a majority of the tariffs, they barely paid a minority. No fucking wonder, because the tariff regime was set up by fucking Southerners.
+You can read Taussig's Tariff History of the United States. They had already paid 80% of the tariff when it was at a low point, but still the dominate source of revenue. Prior to secession, The Morrill tariff was passed by the House which would have increased the average tariff rate from 15% to 37.5%. The South was not willing to be plundered to protect Northern industry. 
+>No fucktard, they weren't, because they had set up protective tariffs to favor their own industries. Tariffs cut both ways, remember? Did they cover that for you on fucking facebook or wherever it is you went to school?
+The tariffs were mainly to protect Republican cronies in Northern steel and manufacturing. The majority of this revenue was going towards corrupt Northern internal improvements. 
+
+Where is your source? That's right. You have none.
+--- 14921066
+>>14921030
+Referring to but not naming Whig leader Henry Clay, Representative Atherton said the founder of this system of internal improvements and the most distinguished advocate for what he called the American System, “has, long ago, dismissed this argument as unjustifiable and untenable. He had abandoned this position. He has rebuked and repudiated this pretence as having no foundation.” Representative Atherton, to prove his point, quoted from the Senate debate in 1835 on a similar bill for continuation of the Cumberland Road in the western States. Senator Clay had said: 
+
+Now he did not concur with the gentleman [Mr. Ewing] that Ohio could, as a matter of strict right, demand of the Government to keep this road in repair, and why so? Because, by the terms of the compact under the operation of which the road was made, there was a restricted and refined fund set apart, in order to accomplish that object; and THAT FUND MEASURED THE OBLIGATION OF THE GOVERNMENT. It had been, however, LONG SINCE EXHAUSTED. There was NO OBLIGATION then on the part of the Government to keep the road in repair. [Emphasis in original.]
+--- 14921100
+>>14916549 (OP)
+What would happen if we had killed all the confedetares and nazis after the wars?
+--- 14921109
+>>14921066
+It was constructed under the direction of most skillful persons, and they had been
+told that it would be a national monument, a most magnificent work. But
+Congress had become wearied of it, for they found no end to it. Year after year,
+for twenty years, appropriations had been made to the Cumberland road, and at
+length they had come to the conclusion that they had best get rid of this
+extraordinary expenditure. Year after year expenses had been incurred, and it
+was reported to grow worse and worse.
+--- 14921118
+>>14921109
+During 1824, Senator Buren voted nay on a bill permitting Alabama to collect tolls on
+goods transported on her navigable rivers. During the debate, he pointed out that the
+Enabling Act allowing Alabama to join the union prohibited such tolls. That same year,
+he also voted against a bill appropriating $500,000 to construct a canal from Albemarle
+Sound in North Carolina to the Atlantic Ocean and removing an obstruction from a
+channel connecting the Albemarle Sound with Pamlico Sound
+--- 14921130
+>>14921118
+The gentleman went from appropriation after appropriation for roads in Arkansas,
+because he said they were “roads commenced and not completed.” We
+appropriated the other day, said Mr. K. for roads in Arkansas, and they were
+called military roads, because they lead to a temporary garrison, which the
+Secretary of War may abandon at his pleasure. But, continued Mr. K. when we
+tried to get a small appropriation for a military road in Alabama, on which twenty
+thousand dollars have been expended, we could not get it either on the plea of its
+having been commenced and not completed, or it being a military road. We were
+told, said he, that it was altogether unconstitutional; that when the appropriation
+was made it was rightly done, because the road was in Indian country, but that
+now the Indian title was extinguished, the State of Alabama must make the road
+herself. He then tried to get the road out of the two per cent. fund belonging to his
+State, but this appropriation of a few thousand was refused on the ground that the
+two per cent. fund was to be reserved for making roads leading to the State, and
+that was within it.
+--- 14921141
+>>14920991
+
+yes and no. reconstruction heavily favored the south, at least in terms of maintaining the status quo, and while people meme about "muh reparations", the most effective time to have actually *ATTEMPTED* to integrate blacks into civil society (lol) or relocate blacks back to their homeland would've been immediately after the end of the Civil War. Both of these outcomes are extremely unrealistic and require a large amount of foresight, so what the hell do you do with all of the black people now in the south? 
+
+You end up with a class of ex-slaves with no skills and at the bottom of the social ladder, which means that it's extremely easy for them to turn towards crime and very difficult for them to change their socioeconomic status. It's unfortunate because post-reconstruction pretty much just sealed the fate of the south as a place plagued by the "free" black, but also with none of the infrastructure required to actually build a different economy that wasn't based on "le peculiar institution lole". The deep south of the US is the most impoverished in modern times. Partly due to the fact that communities there don't really have any industry jobs and it's pretty difficult to consider getting a higher education when you need to support your family instead. Before moralfags start bitching, I do genuinely think slavery as an institution goes against the teachings of Christianity. But, because it formed the backbone of the Southern economy, unless Reconstruction could've somehow managed to replace a primarily estate/slavery-based agricultural economy with an industrial/machinery-based agricultural economy (which is extremely unlikely) blacks would've never been able to move up the social ladder. (There's not even enough opportunities for poor whites to move up the social ladder, so how on earth are we expected to move up poor blacks?)
+--- 14921145
+>>14921130
+The new States through which this road passes, are debarred the right to tax a
+great portion of the soil within their limits, and thereby are deprived of the
+resources which appertain to the old States. If we were placed in the same
+condition with the old States, and had an equal standing with them, we would join
+them heart and hand in excluding all these things from the action of Congress.
+We would be foremost with the first to confine the action of the General
+Government to subjects purely national, and expressly recognized by the
+Constitution. It is the pure and legitimate doctrine to exclude from the halls of
+Congress all matters that can be transacted by the State authorities, and
+circumscribe the patronage of the President within the legitimate pale of the
+Constitution. I am free to grant and subscribe to all this doctrine; yet the national
+road, for various reasons which I have, and will present to this House, forms a
+marked and decided exception to this rule
+--- 14921149
+>>14921145
+The new States were “heartily tired of
+our vassalage to the General Government in respect to the public domain.” They were
+“crippled in our operations, deprived of the high and equal stand in the Union with the
+other States,” and the situation was “becoming intolerable” for the new States at the same time “the Government itself is tired of legislating for us in relation to the public
+lands.” The day when the General Government’s “undue influence” over the public
+lands comes to an end “will be hailed as a fortunate epoch in the history of the new
+States.”
+--- 14921164
+>>14921149
+He observed that the general government had appropriated and expended upwards of
+$30 million in the past year, with all revenue from the sale of public lands in the State
+going to the general government, but “not one dollar was appropriated in or for the State
+of Illinois, or in the western country.” He was not complaining that the amount overall
+was too large in view of the general government’s many responsibilities. “But it seems
+extraordinary that the State of Illinois, or as far as I am informed, none of the western
+States, received one cent of these appropriations.” It would be “idle and foolish” to
+expect expenditures in Illinois for unimportant objects:
+
+But I would ask this House if the national road be not a legitimate object? It is of
+such character and importance, that the General Government ought to be bound to
+notice it. If there be a national improvement in the Union, it stands foremost in
+their front ranks. The Cumberland road is, therefore, a fit subject on which to
+equalize the expenditures and disbursements of the public money
+--- 14921195
+>>14921164
+Maine, Representative Howard pointed out the many harbor,
+lighthouses, and other activities for which Congress had approved appropriations. He
+said “it would gratify me to hear from several gentlemen how it is they prove the
+constitutionality of these works”:
+One thing, sir, seems a little remarkable, and that is, that local interests seem to
+have a wonderful effect in neutralizing these constitutional scruples. How is it,
+then, that these things come about that gentlemen can vote away millions of
+treasure on light-houses and harbors, and for constitutional reasons not a dollar to
+the Cumberland road? Is it the salt water that makes it constitutional to make
+harbors?
+Referring to Representative Hubbard’s “arguments with great force in opposition to this
+measure,” he asked why it was constitutional for the general government to give his State
+of Alabama “four or five hundred thousand acres of land to make a canal around the
+Muscle shoals?”
+--- 14921216
+>>14921195
+Senator Young had argued that the Senate had passed a bill relinquishing to Alabama the
+revenue from the two-percent fund. Senator Clay said this assertion meant “Illinois and
+her co-States in this business must have all they may think proper to ask.” He pointed
+out that the fund had been accumulating for 20 years “and now the bill as passed does not
+entitle her to receive all that has accrued at once, but only in quarterly payments, and as
+she may expend corresponding sums, derived from other sources, upon the contemplated
+improvement; and she can only receive the balance as it may accrue.” The State would
+not receive one penny until the general Treasury had received it:
+How different with Illinois and other northwestern States! They have not only
+anticipated the receipt of every dollar of the two per cent. fund by appropriations
+before it accrued, but the General Government has expended for their benefit
+millions of dollars beyond the largest amount that ever can possibly accrue . . . .
+--- 14921248
+>>14921216
+Let Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, and Michigan first be placed on
+an equality with the other four new States by expending for their benefit as many
+million dollars as had been literally poured out of the Treasury on the
+Cumberland road; and let your liberality be apportioned among the several States
+in proportion to the amount which each has paid into the Treasury for public lands, and we shall have less cause to complain of injustice in your exercise of
+unauthorized power.
+--- 14921306
+>>14921248
+the amount appropriated for the road above the
+accumulated 2 percent was $5,513,395.58 
+
+Now, if the gentleman means to convey the idea that Mr. Jefferson believed the
+General Government possessed the constitutional power to make roads or canals
+within the States, I deny the assertion, and challenge him to the proof. Can the
+Senator from Illinois or any other gentleman show a single sentence in all that
+Mr. Jefferson has said or written to warrant the belief that he ever entertained the
+opinion that this Government possessed power to make internal improvements?
+No, sir, it is impossible, except so far as to agree to expend two per cent. of the
+net proceeds of the public lands in making roads to the new States, to accelerate
+the settlement and facilitate the sale of the national domain, as he had stated in a
+former part of the discussion; and this was a mere incident to the “power to
+dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or
+other property belonging to the United States.” But, although in this aspect that
+distinguished Republican had approved of bills making appropriations for the
+Cumberland road, and although those bills had anticipated the accruement of the
+fund reserved for that purpose, he had never exceeded its ultimate probable
+amount, nor had he ever signed a bill which did not promise reimbursement.
+--- 14921389
+>>14921306
+Mr. CALHOUN said that he was thoroughly satisfied that the General
+Government was wholly unfit to carry on works of internal improvement, and
+that in his solicitude to see the termination of the whole system he would vote for
+the amendment as a substitute for this bill by his friend from Alabama, [Mr.
+Clay.] He believed the offer was a liberal one, and ought to be accepted by the
+States interested. It went beyond the measure of real justice in the spirit of
+compromise and the hope that it would put an end to this distracting question and
+the system of which it constitutes a part. It was only in that view he could justify
+his support of the proposition. Indeed, he believed that the fund was entirely
+exhausted, and that the States interested in the road had no just claim to further
+appropriations or aid from the Government.
+--- 14921432
+>>14921389
+It was in fact too late to inquire into the true meaning of the compact in reference
+to the fund. Two points were certain. In the first place, that the Government is
+not bound to expend more than two per cent. on the road, and that the fund had
+been exhausted. And in the next place that it had been exhausted by the votes, in
+part, of the members of the States interested in that fund, and at the earnest
+solicitation of the States which they represent, and against the strenuous
+opposition of a large portion of the members from other parts of the Union.
+--- 14921441
+>>14921432
+He pointed out that
+according to the Treasury Department, the government had spent $18.6 million for
+internal improvements, an amount he increased to $25 million to include interest. “And
+what do you suppose has been the aggregate income of the Government from this
+immense expenditure, equal to one fourth of the debt of the Revolution?” The full profit
+amounted to $173,620, “and that from a single work – the Louisville and Portland canal.”
+That deficit between expenditure and profit was only one example of “wasteful and
+thoughtless expenditure”:
+It has been stated in debate, and not contradicted, that it has thus far cost $18,000
+per mile, a sum at least three times as great as a good road of the kind may be
+made for, and much greater than what a substantial railroad ought to cost.
+--- 14921526
+>>14921441
+To illustrate the “wasteful and thoughtless” nature of internal improvements by the
+general government, he pointed out that Georgia had received $17,000, Tennessee
+$27,000, but Kentucky, South Carolina, and Virginia had received nothing:
+
+The truth is, the expenditures appear to have been governed by importunity and
+political influence, with little or no regard to justice or utility. A system so
+conducted must lead to discontent, and be productive, politically, of mischievous
+consequences. Need we go further than this very instance to prove the truth of
+this assertion? Can we doubt that there is, in reality, a large portion of this body
+discontented with so large an annual draft on the Treasury for a single work as
+local in its characters as a thousand others that may be named? Nay, further; can
+we doubt that there is a great majority of the body of both parties opposed to it
+--- 14921532
+>>14921526
+We have, for the last fifteen or twenty years, been wasting the resources of the
+Union on innumerable objects of internal expenditure – roads, canals, harbors, an
+overgrown eleemosynary pension list, never intended to be placed, by the
+Constitution, under the charge of this Government – while we have been grossly
+neglecting the great objects for which the Government was really instituted. It is
+high time that this internal bleeding, which has been wasting the strength of the
+Government, should cease, and that we should direct our attention and resources
+to objects really intrusted to the Government and for which it is responsible. He
+was no alarmist; he did not believe that war would grow out of the boundary
+question.
+--- 14921549
+>>14921532
+He would be prepared to show, on the proper occasion, that it would be in our
+power, by strict economy, and withholding useless, profuse, corrupting, and
+unconstitutional expenditures, to put on the ocean, at no distant period, and
+without increase of burden, a force that would give to us the habitual command of
+the adjacent seas against any force on our coast . . . .
+The first step is to put a stop to these internal expenditures, at the head of which
+stands that which is the subject of this discussion. Till it is stopped this system
+cannot be arrested; nor can we have any assurance till then that it will not return
+on us in its full vigor. Other portions of the Union will not stand by and see a
+part receiving all the benefit of the system, be the pretense what it may, without
+struggling to participate in its advantages.
+--- 14921570
+>>14921549
+Georgia had ceded land that became the States of Alabama and Mississippi, in return for
+which the State had received a “mere song, sir - $1,250,000, a promise to settle certain
+fraudulent claims against the State, and the more important consideration of a promise to
+extinguish the Indian claim to all lands within the limits of Georgia, abridged as they
+were by that cession.” The general government had demonstrated bad faith in complying
+with these promises:
+
+We have, sir, but just got rid of our Indians; much of our territory is still an
+unimproved, unsettled wilderness; whereas, if this Government had been faithful
+to its compact with Georgia, we should have had a population and improvements
+proportioned to our extensive limits and productive soil.
+--- 14921575
+>>14921549
+Senator Lumpkin said he had in his hand a report from the Treasury on
+expenditures for internal improvements since 1803, totaling $25 million:
+
+And, sir, out of this immense sum what amount would you suppose Georgia has
+received, out of $25,000,000, $17,000, applied to the removal of obstructions in
+the Savannah river. Yes, sir, you have the amount, all told. Now, sir, the new
+State of Indiana, the Senator’s own State, has received considerably upward of
+one million of this vast expenditure. Under these circumstances, sir, can that
+Senator expect to stand here unrebuked when he attempts to make comparisons
+between Georgia and Indiana in reference to sharing the spoils of the public
+Treasury in a scrambling system of internal improvement?
+--- 14921707
+>>14921575
+On December 7, 1841, President Tyler sent the traditional message to Congress. He
+expected that as of January 1, 1842, the Treasury would have a budget deficit of
+$627,557.90. While the Treasury was stabilizing, the States had problems stemming
+from debt incurred primarily for increased investment in internal improvements:
+
+Nor can I fail to advert in this connection to the debts which many of the States of
+the Union have contracted abroad and under which they continue to labor. That
+indebtedness amounts to a sum not less than $200,000,000, and which has been
+retributed to them for the most part in works of internal improvement which are
+destined to prove of vast importance in ultimately advancing their prosperity and wealth. For the debts thus contracted the States are alone responsible. I can do no
+more than express the belief that each State will feel itself bound by every
+consideration of honor as well as of interest to meet its engagements with
+punctuality. The failure, however, of any one State to do so should in no degree
+affect the credit of the rest, and the foreign capitalist will have no just cause to
+experience alarm as to all other State stocks because any one or more of the States
+may neglect to provide with punctuality the means of redeeming their
+engagements. Even such States, should there be any, considering the great
+rapidity with which their resources are developing themselves, will not fail to
+have the means at no very distant day to redeem their obligations to the uttermost
+farthing; nor will I doubt but that, in view of that honorable conduct which has
+evermore governed the States of the Union and the people of the Union, they will
+each and all resort to every legitimate expedient before they will forego a faithful
+compliance with their obligations.
+--- 14921747
+>>14921707
+Outgoing President Tyler sent his final annual message to Congress on December 3,
+1844. As usual, he discussed foreign relations, including efforts to secure the addition of
+the Republic of Texas, formed in 1836 after securing independence in a war with Mexico,
+to the union. The economy was rebounding, as was the general Treasury. The country
+had been forced to pay for its activities by securing loans and issuing bonds. However,
+the improved condition of the Treasury meant that “an estimated surplus of upward of
+$7,000,000 over and above the existing appropriations will remain in the Treasury at the
+close of the fiscal year.” This milestone, he said, demonstrated that “under a wellregulated system of finance the Government has resources within itself which render it
+independent in time of need, not only of private loans, but also of bank facilities”
+
+The anticipated surplus prompted him to warn Congress about the need to preserve “a
+sound and healthy condition"
+--- 14921774
+>>14921747
+The Whig Party turned to its leading light, Henry Clay, as its nominee. Former Senator
+Theodore Frelinghuysen of New Jersey was his running mate. The party’s platform did
+not mention internal improvements, but did cite “the distribution of the proceeds of the
+sales of the public lands.” 
+
+The Democrat party’s platform retained the essence of the first three tenets of the Harrison/Tyler
+election, including the statement that “the Constitution does not confer upon the General
+Government the power to commence or carry on a general system of internal
+improvements.” 
+
+Although the electoral college vote ended up a one-sided 170 to 105, the popular vote
+was close, with Polk receiving 1,339,494 votes to Clay’s 1,300,004. 
+
+Polk, nicknamed “Young Hickory” for his close association with the former
+President, explained one of the principles that would guide his administrative policy:
+The Constitution itself, plainly written as it is, the safeguard of our federative
+compact, the offspring of concession and compromise, binding together in the
+bonds of peace and union this great and increasing family of free and independent
+States, will be the chart by which I shall be directed. It will be my first care to
+administer the Government in the true spirit of that instrument, and to assume no
+powers not expressly granted or clearly implied in its terms.
+--- 14921851
+>>14916549 (OP)
+Before self-hate was taught in schools, people were proud of their history and ancestors.
+--- 14921867
+>>14919402
+>still aren't fully accepted as "true American".
+The media and school system praises them at every turn and they get the benefit of the doubt whenever they do anything. They get the most welfare from the government, and they get priority access to public education, along with many other things. One of the two major political parties thinks we need to give them billion of dollars for "reparations".
+--- 14922002
+>>14916735
+You'd be wrong. Jews were mostly Republicans up until the 1920s and only became a majority Democrat bloc during the New Deal era.
+--- 14922020
+>>14920759
+>It's already been pointed out that the North was also farming country and had its significant Democratic base
+Farmers in the North were mainly Republicans back then, though.
+--- 14922036
+>>14922002
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abe_Ruef
+--- 14923051
+>>14916549 (OP)
+--- 14923057
+>>14923051
+Forgot the book.
+--- 14923146
+>>14921057
+The Senate only became majority Republican after Southern states seceded, and it was only then that the Morrill tariff passed. Are you saying the South seceded over a bill they had the capability of blocking?
+--- 14923212
+>>14916765
+The US Civil War was a pretty rare instance of these kinds of conflicts in that there was an immediate geographic border established that was respected by both sides, both sides had functional governments and were not claimants for one another's official holdings (ie: jefferson davis did not say he was the legitimate president of the United States and his motivations did not include making the White House his seat of power) and it was generally fought between regular military forces who behaved under the established conduct of the time. There was no piecemeal insurrection where cities far behind the established borders declared for the opposite side nor a protracted time of guerilla warfare or repeated upstarts. When the Confederacy surrendered the country simply reunited and resumed it's existence with the same borders it started with. 
+
+This also places blacks in a difficult situation because they had little agency in the end of their slavery. If the United States as a whole had decided slavery would continue then it would and if they decided as a whole it would end then so too would it end. In the anti-serf revolutions the effected peoples violently overthrew their overlords and claimed their right to freedom through their direct actions. In the case of American blacks it was entirely elective that they be freed and every attempt at a violent slave uprising had been completely demolished. They have nothing to look back on and say "we did it!" at any point leading up to the end of slavery. This means they are forced to admit that whites, who enslaved them, also freed them on a whim and that they were effectively powerless in the entire process. This causes no end of resentment to this very day.

his/14917847.txt

@@ -18,3 +18,61 @@ They lost Ireland less than 20 years earlier
 --- 14918432
 >>14917856
 >Britain wasn't already declining
+--- 14918536
+>>14918378
+Mostly this. Radical politics is almost always a reaction to shitty living standards in the country. In agricultural and undereducated shitholes it usually goes for far-left socialists, in industrialised and educated countries it tends to go for fascists (far-right socialists). 
+
+>>14917847 (OP)
+Why are you using the old flag there OP?
+--- 14918549
+>>14918414
+They had Northern Ireland. The parts they lost were ones which they were already planning on giving home rule to.
+--- 14919770
+>>14918414
+britain is fascist, ireland isn't bro.
+--- 14919825
+>>14917847 (OP)
+800 year old civil society with a stable Parliamentary system, plus a relatively advanced economy with decent living standards
+--- 14919832
+The British political establishment was far too stable. Britain hasn't had any real uprising, political revolution or change in government since 1688. Fascism was a totally alien sort of ideology for the British
+--- 14919866
+>>14919770
+howard's right
+--- 14919871
+>>14917847 (OP)
+some people were just born to take tranny cock neolib
+--- 14919900
+>>14918414
+Yeah and nobody aside from Ulster fags gave a shit
+--- 14919902
+>>14917847 (OP)
+>Country is stable 
+>No irredentism 
+>No insecurity about access to resources 
+>Colonies abound 
+>Fear of Soviet Union isn't as severe
+--- 14919911
+>>14919902
+acxounting equation oustanding debt termination genetic level. nothin personal nons, cant be. many branches have fallen before. .5b
+--- 14919982
+>>14917847 (OP)
+Britain became Fascist when the Italian Empire took it over. They have been Fascist ever since.
+--- 14920000
+>>14917847 (OP)
+The typical bong couldn't be further from a fascist, they had none of the self-sacrifice and fanaticism required.
+--- 14920079
+>>14920000
+Fun fact, the guy in this picture is actually German
+--- 14920137
+You can think of the British Empire as "fascism with British characteristics". Its not that it never fell into fascism, its that status quo thinking among Brits towards the empire was more or less fascist sentiment with different wording, so there wasn't really a need for it.
+If you read Mosley you can see he was hardly an extremist, and British corporatism was not radical. The fascist union were really just proto-populists if anything.
+--- 14920151
+Fascism is for failed empires that are in danger of falling to communism, Britain was so successful at empire that it made it's local communists complicit in colonialist surplus (if you think Labour is communist even at the Wilson administration you're a fool). Britain was able to peacefully hand it's empire to the US instead of any violent fall after WWII.
+--- 14921502
+>>14917847 (OP)
+It did under Cromwell.
+--- 14921539
+It's hard to believe in white supremacy when you live next to irish barbarians.
+--- 14922401
+>>14920137
+Nah British empire was all about money. For the most part it didn't really care what its subjugated people did as long as it was orderly and didn't get in the way of making money.

his/14917956.txt

@@ -16,3 +16,160 @@ Their families took care of them. Holy fuck the absolute state of westoids how c
 Came here to post this. What a depressing lot.
 --- 14918065
 just like muh heckin katawa shoujo
+--- 14918717
+Amputee here (lower right leg), if anyone has questions.
+--- 14918727
+>>14918717
+what happened? accident at work?
+--- 14918729
+>>14918717
+How long did it take to grow back?
+--- 14918750
+>>14918717
+is life now better for you in any way?
+--- 14918785
+>>14918727
+They couldn't figure out what the problem is. And they really tried. Meh.
+>>14918729
+WIP
+>>14918750
+Half the amount of toenails to cut, only need one sock, always a free spot in public transportation. It's also a conversation starter, loads of people initiate talks.
+Plus I've got a really mean kick. That fucker just pulverizes bones, while chances of me getting injured is very low. It being high end titan/carbon fiber helps too.
+--- 14918805
+>>14917965
+>he thinks crippled veterans got anything after serving EVER
+lmao
+
+>The private soldiers fight and die to advance the wealth and luxury of the great, and they are called masters of the world without having a sod to call their own.
+t. I. Fragments by Tiberius Gracchus
+--- 14918831
+>>14917956 (OP)
+
+You had to bring a piece of legal paper with you to probe that it was not due criminal punishment. Mutilation was often used to identify law-breakers.
+--- 14918859
+>>14917956 (OP)
+Depends on time, place and disability.
+
+In general, most people in the past lived in small, high-trust communities. Such communities tend to have high levels of reciprocal altruism, so a disabled person would likely be taken care of. They would also likely be given a job that they can still do. If you lost an arm, you can still whatch over sheep, if you can't walk you can still sit and make crafts etc.
+
+However, famine was also widespread before modernity, during which it was common to abandon old and disabled people. Not because they were hated but if the group's survival is at stake, those who can contribute the less will be sacrificed.
+
+Another things that can lead to disabled people's mistreatment is religious dogma and superstition. In medieval Europe, children born with disabilities were sometimes believed to be changelings that the devil or other evil entity substituted for the real children, and parents could have been accused of whitchraft because of that. In China, disability was often viewed as punishment for bad karma, leading to disabled people being ostracized. In Islam, the left hand was viewed as unclean so if you lost your right hand you could be rejected by the community.
+--- 14918892
+>>14918859
+>>14917956 (OP)
+My general impression is that people born with a disability, especially if it was not very debilitating BUT very visible were treated the worst. 
+
+If you became disabled because of an accident or during war, you usually got a lot of sympathy and care. But let's say you were born with a hunched back or other visible deformity. Such things were often seen by people as physical manifestations of an evil soul or some kind of demonic influence.
+
+Also note that the upper classes and urbanites were much more cruel to the disabled than rural people. 
+
+>Thomas' (1977) analysis of the joke books of Tudor and Stuart England reveals the extent of this dimension of the discrimination encountered by disabled people. 
+>Besides references to the other so-called timeless universals of 'popular' humour such as foreigners, women, and the clergy, there are many jokes about impairment and disabled people: Every disability from idiocy to insanity to diabetes and bad breath was a welcome source of amusement, 'we jest at a man's body that is not well proportioned', said Thomas Wilson, 'and laugh at his countenance. ..if it be not comely by nature'. 
+>A typical Elizabethan joke book contains 'merry jests at fools' and merry jests at 'blind folk'. While some of the tricksters' pranks are brutal to the extreme. (Thomas, 1977, pp.80-1). 
+>Visits to Bedlam were also a common form of amusement for the socially well placed and the practice of keeping 'idiots' as objects of entertainment was prevalent among the aristocracy (Ryan and Thomas, 1980).
+
+https://disability-studies.leeds.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/40/library/Barnes-disabled-people-and-discrim-ch2.pdf
+--- 14918978
+>>14918065
+Terminally unfunny
+--- 14919142
+>>14918717
+you are now obligated to become a sexy pirate
+--- 14919189
+>>14918717
+i wish it was my leg instead of an arm
+i barely see you people as disabled
+--- 14919212
+>>14919142
+>you are now obligated to become a sexy pirate
+I even kinda look like Johnny Depp did back in the day, so yes, it's definitely a project.
+
+>>14919189
+>i wish it was my leg instead of an arm
+>i barely see you people as disabled
+Yeah, an Arm really really sucks, no doubt. Reason for it?
+Leg, especially below knee, you don't even notice those people once the rehab process is done. Pretty much normal walking.
+I'm not quite there yet, amputation was last July, but every day is a bit better. I don't use the fake skin stuff, just the metal, because I don't want to uncanny valley. Also roll up my pants, so people immediately can see why I'm walking funny.
+--- 14919612
+In the U.S., blind men often chose music as a way to support themselves. Look at the absurd number of early recorded blues, gospel and hillbilly musicians named “Blind something something”
+--- 14919655
+>>14918805
+Yes women got money from their local government if their husband died in war
+Get over it
+--- 14919843
+>>14917956 (OP)
+disabled woman = cute = lots of coomers over her
+disabled man = rejected by everybody
+--- 14919854
+>>14918717
+Is phantom limb syndrome a thing you have experienced?
+--- 14919886
+>>14918717
+Are you treated as "not really disabled" by disabled people and receive stigma.
+--- 14919891
+>>14918805
+>Gracchus
+Dilate.
+--- 14919910
+Wealthy families would keep their tard / schizo relatives locked in the house. "Oh don't mind that screaming, it's just uncle William". Funnily enough I went to school with an old money kid and the brother was mentally disturbed, but was basically kept at home to roam about. It was so odd, we were playing star wars pod racer and always hearing tardrage at his nurse. There aren't asylums really any more so what else is there to do?
+--- 14919923
+>>14919854
+Yep, especially phantom pain. There's no problem with your brain thinking your prothesis is part of your leg, that allows you to move naturally.
+But, you can get pain in it. Fucking strong pain. They put me on max opiates and ketamine and it still was easily 7/10 on the pain scale.
+But then I went to some specialists. The did an MRI and realized a nerve wasn't correctly shortened and grew into the wound of the amputation. So they did a revision of the wound, corrected it, and then, actually, all the pain was gone.
+>>14919886
+No, they're a nice club and if you see everyone with such things, it's normal to approach and have a little talk.
+>>14919843
+>disabled man = rejected by everybody
+It's fine, if anything its a conversation piece. I basically have the ice-breaker attached to my body.
+--- 14919929
+>>14919655
+>get your land sold by your woman to a wealthy owner when you were away
+lmao
+>>14919891
+lmao seethe more, he was right
+--- 14919930
+>>14917956 (OP)
+they could BTFO the british fleet anyday
+--- 14920972
+>>14918785
+>They couldn't figure out what the problem is
+Did it happen before or after the covid pandemic? Did you take the clotshot?
+--- 14920989
+>>14920972
+>Did it happen before or after the covid pandemic? Did you take the clotshot?
+After, but I didnt take the clotshot exactly because it didn't quite sound perfect.
+Ultimatively, they ran me through every scan they have without any clear result.
+--- 14921007
+>>14919923
+>I basically have the ice-breaker attached to my body.
+So does the leg stay on or off during sex?
+--- 14921027
+>>14921007
+Off. it's not super sexy to have a bunch of titan and carbon fiber attached while you're getting into it.
+--- 14922071
+>>14919891
+are you fucking serious? Gracchus' only flaw was not marching Rome before Sulla and Caesar
+--- 14922112
+>>14919923
+Amitriptyline is sometimes used for those with nerve damage. Might ask your doctor about it.
+--- 14922155
+>>14918717
+
+Post (non-)leg with timestamp
+--- 14922514
+>>14918717
+Obviously you're pretty screwed if you're missing a limb above the elbow/knee but exactly how much more than not?
+--- 14922553
+>>14918006
+Its honestly funny how white people call Asians bugmen but when they encounter a problem, they rely on the state first than their own families.
+
+Like white people call police to...solve domestic disputes. Or go to therapy before talking to their fucking parents/family.
+--- 14922768
+>>14918717
+how big is your dick?
+--- 14922864
+>>14918859
+>In Islam, the left hand was viewed as unclean so if you lost your right hand you could be rejected by the community.
+Wtf stop pulling shit out of ur filthy ass.Have seen left-handed muslims eat with their left hand all my life despite being fine afall that they are told us to try not to do so but no one is ostracised for that shit if they continue to do so

his/14918033.txt

@@ -140,3 +140,114 @@ This is why people don't like (You)
 --- 14918468
 >>14918291
 It's not a phobia, it's a healthy revulsion. There's nothing worse than degeneracy masquerading as a medical condition.
+--- 14918511
+>>14918033 (OP)
+Social constructs are real and matter, and everyone who needs something external to humanity as the source of morality and meaning is one short step away from nihilism.
+--- 14919633
+We're looking at it backwards. Humans are moral creatures, this is an observation. The question is then how and why are they moral creatures. Religions use God as an explanation, as holy spirit is our conscience, the rules and dogmas are a later innovation. Materialists explain our moral behaviour as evolutionary strategy, where group cooperation outcompetes selfishness. In fact Alexander iirc ran some game theory simulations which came to a similar conclusion. In an iterative game cooperative strategies beat out selfish ones. 
+
+Morality is a brute fact that we begin from. If you believe that pure, universal moral consistency is only possible with a transcendent God the belief has no relation to the existence of moral behaviour per se and is not some refutation of a materialist explanation for moral behaviour. It's just a trivial statement that without universal, timeless, mortality there can be no universal, timeless morality.
+--- 14919643
+>>14918047
+Why punish criminals at all if sky jew will eventually do it?
+--- 14921264
+>>14918132
+>It was never meant for Christians.
+citation needed.
+--- 14921320
+Assuming God exist and says it's immoral to snap your neck
+Why shouldn't I snap your neck? (I don't care what God says)
+--- 14921357
+>>14918033 (OP)
+You’ve posted this thread before. What do you expect to see in this thread that you haven’t seen in the other ones you’ve posted?
+--- 14921813
+>>14918056
+That just explains the reason we have "morals" not why we should follow them
+--- 14921825
+>>14918077
+as an atheist, you should do this. moral evaluations are always just a mask for more pragmatic reasons of evaluation.
+--- 14921833
+>>14921357
+Christians have a deep frustration that their ideas are stupid and it manifests as aggression toward atheists. He’s not really looking for a discussion, it’s just sort of a temper tantrum
+--- 14921848
+>>14918033 (OP)
+Because I'm stronger than you.
+--- 14921871
+>>14918148
+>In the book, he explains how, at the collective level, empathy (and having rules enforcing it) increases the chances of survival for the group, compared to other groups, in a sort of Darwinian competition of tribes and societies
+This is cope.
+Empathy is not the foundation of morality, and in fact sadism is rooted in the human ability to empathize.
+
+How can you take pleasure in another's pain, if you cannot appreciate how much pain you are causing them?
+--- 14921875
+>>14918033 (OP)
+Easy. Because you will be caught and go to prison.
+Any other questions I can help you with?
+--- 14921882
+>>14918192
+Darwinian selection is not regression, and atheists that believe in "progress" are a joke.
+--- 14921889
+>>14921882
+atheists that believe in progress got filtered by the hegelian meme
+--- 14921902
+>>14921833
+The modern world is all your fault, you don't have the right to call any religion stupid you godless piece of shit. Rat worshipping Hindus that bathe in the corpse soup filth of the Ganges are less dysgenic than your physicalist faggotry.
+--- 14921903
+>>14918033 (OP)
+The police will find you and lock you up. Which is why you are actually not doing it, not because of what the sky jew told you.
+--- 14921910
+>>14921903
+>The police will find you
+lol
+--- 14921933
+>>14918079
+1. Failure to follow the moral code doesn't disprove its existence. In fact, failure is baked into this religion and the whole idea is that everyone is a sinner who must repent for failing to perfectly adhere to the code. 
+And no offense, but if you truly believe that the Bible orders Christians to not wear mixed fabrics then you are deeply unfamiliar with it. You have absolutely no grounds to say that people are acting hypocritically.
+
+2. People are only outwardly "empathetic" because they must be to function in a society. They may know right from wrong, but only so as to justify their actions to others. No one is sincerely stopping themselves based on it being "wrong" according to some arcane and indefinite moral code. Christians profess to have faith that a God will reward or punish them based on their actions and thus have an incentive to adhere to a moral code. However weak the incentive of an imaginary world beyond the grave is, Atheists simply do not have any. 
+
+I am sincerely perplexed: why would an Atheist act morally, unless it was to his own tangible benefit? 
+
+>inb4 you're evil because you are an animal and thus need incentives to change your behavior 
+yes that is my whole point. people are evil and need an outward force to coerce them, to an extent, into good.
+--- 14921948
+>God created pedophiles, terrorism, criminals, illness, poverty
+How am I supposed to support him?
+--- 14921962
+>>14921948
+Retard.
+--- 14921993
+>>14921948
+It's more like he allows those things to happen.
+--- 14922000
+>>14921948
+by becoming a pedophile terrorist (joining the church)
+--- 14922015
+>>14921902
+>The modern world is all your fault
+No, no
+it's your fault, it's your fault Christianity is untenable and silly 
+should've of have made up a more believable story
+--- 14922479
+>the only reason I don’t kill you is because my sky daddy told me not to 
+Every thread just further convinces me that the Romans were justified in throwing you retards to the lions
+--- 14923251
+>>14921933
+>why would an Atheist act morally, unless it was to his own tangible benefit? 
+as opposed to the theist who acts morally for his own intangible benefit, namely vague promises of avoiding hell?
+--- 14923567
+>>14918033 (OP)
+>Christcuck infantiles admitting that the only reason they aren't full-blown degenerates are not the self-control, inner morality, or personal values
+>It's the imaginary daddy standing above them with the belt, who will torture them if they step out of the line
+--- 14923573
+>>14921933
+>I am sincerely perplexed: why would an Atheist act morally, unless it was to his own tangible benefit?
+Explaining that to people like you would be as useless as explaining the concept of red color to the person who was blind from birth.
+--- 14923577
+>>14922479
+Romans certainly knew something.
+--- 14923590
+>>14921813
+>The reason we have morals
+>You are on land I want
+>So I will commit genocide of every man and married woman but your daughters can become my wives

his/14918058.txt

@@ -77,3 +77,156 @@ I'm racist towards god and his son.
 --- 14918499
 >>14918444
 >1 John 4:3 kjv 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God; and such is the spirit of Antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come, and even now already it is in the world.
+--- 14918507
+>>14918381
+Muhammed is the false prophet. Romanists are the whore of babylon.
+>[Rev 17:4 KJV] 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
+
+>[Mar 7:7-9, 20-23 KJV] 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. ... 20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
+
+If you muslim you should just convert to being an Ishmaelist Arab and believe on Jesus Christ to be saved and that he is the only son of God. Muhammedans won't do shit to an Ishmaelan Arab.
+--- 14918510
+>>14918417
+--- 14918518
+Cyrus was called messiah, but thats different to the davidic messiah. 
+
+Correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus never directly claims to be the davidic messiah in the new testament. He refers to Isaiah and how he fulfills messianic descriptions in Isaiah, but its not clear if thats the same thing as the davidic messiah or if Jesus was even saying "look how I was literally predicted in scripture" so much as "look at how I fulfil these ideals and this character"
+--- 14918527
+>>14918445
+>Temple is still in ruins. I
+The Messianic Temple is the Spirit of God making a home in men's hearts. Starting the real work of changing the destiny of man and their nature from within. It can't rushed with you or anyone else. Together, all of those who are called by his name are the House of God.
+--- 14918542
+>>14918088
+>>14918119
+>hides God's name with negative symbol
+>still refuses to use the plus sign in Israel
+>literally blinded to the true messiah because God said so
+--- 14918548
+>>14918518
+Jesus fulfilled everything because he is God.
+He said I AM. Aka I AM GOD.
+--- 14918567
+>>14918507
+I go to all the trouble conceiving those 2 messiahs for solstice births and their 2 mothers deliver them late/early by 2 weeks, what a slap in the face. Wimin!
+--- 14918579
+>Jehovah's Wiccans (JW)
+--- 14918584
+>Jew here
+>Jew here
+>Jew here
+>I am writer for God here
+--- 14918601
+>Muslim lurker here... Just letting everyone know that we write God as a snake in Arabic, we want to marry little girls, we like dexterity based dual crossed scimitars we like 666 cubes and plan to control the entire world through religious domination not by free will to choose God.
+--- 14918604
+>>14918584
+You are! You are! Yea, yea!
+--- 14918622
+>>14918548
+He didn't fulfill the requirements for Davidic Messiah . Also a human can't be God , it's impossible and doesn't make sense . 
+
+How can an infinite being become a finite being while remaining an infinite being ?
+Man a finite mind can't know anything at all about an infinite mind unless the infinite mind chooses to reveal itself in a limited way to a finite being , through its own actions . We can only know God through God's actions , like creation
+--- 14918629
+>>14918542
+Any name of God isn't supposed to be written by Jews because the record is going to be destroyed at some point and that's forbidden. 
+
+Not using a plus sign is just something some orthodox chose to do in the 19th century to avoid idolatry . The cross is used to represent God by Christians and Jews are forbidden from making any image of God
+--- 14918639
+>>14918601
+https://www.sefaria.org/Mishnah_Niddah.5.3?lang=bi
+Abram married his 3 year old sister Sarai they say.
+--- 14918649
+A girl three years old may be betrothed through an act of sexual intercourse."
+
+"Three years and one day old." Mishnah, Talmud
+--- 14918655
+>>14918639
+https://www.sefaria.org/Niddah.44b.9?ven=William_Davidson_Edition_-_English&lang=bi
+--- 14918661
+>>14918622
+>David Messiah
+Yes, he did. David messiah would mean King David's sins are now forgiven. Jesus Christ forgave all sin on the cross. God saw all the sins of the entire world on the cross when he died. You would have to be an atheist or an antichrist and lie and claim that the messiah hasn't come already in the flesh.
+--- 14918664
+>>14918639
+I don't believe it. That just makes them crazy and they need to read this.
+>Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
+--- 14918679
+>>14918661
+Jesus Christ tried to be God (as Satan always does);
+but God forsook him, and Satan Jesus failed, again.
+--- 14918688
+>>14918639
+I thought the claim was that Rebecca was 3 when she married Isaac?
+--- 14918693
+>>14918664
+Abraham married a 3 year old, Muhammad married a 6 year old, and Virgin Mary married a 12 year old, Jesus.
+--- 14918696
+>>14918693
+--- 14918699
+>>14918688
+joseph died when jesus was twelve so he married his mother
+--- 14918700
+>>14918058 (OP)
+Some did...
+--- 14918704
+>>14918386
+Neither did all those names scribed in the cemetry or on war memorials.
+--- 14918781
+>>14918696
+so jesus had sex with his mom before he was born and then jesus had sex with his mom twelve years after he was born;
+and she was more than three years old and a day both times, so their marriage was valid from the get-go you're saying?
+--- 14918787
+>>14918639
+>>14918688
+https://www.simplybible.com/f80q-notes-rebekah-age-married-Isaac.htm
+--- 14918798
+>>14918076
+Most kikes never did. Palestina was Christian because it had been settled by Christian Roman citizen after the Jews got rekt and expelled.
+--- 14918833
+>>14918058 (OP)
+Jews hate carpenters.
+--- 14919571
+>>14918622
+> it's impossible
+Impossible for a holy, all-powerful, omnipotent God to show up on Earth in human form? God can do whatever He pleases. Just because you can't think through a way that's possible, doesn't mean that He can't
+--- 14919984
+>>14918493
+>Deut. 6:4
+I'm not sure how any of that is meant to explain that Israel is trinitarian, to be honest. I feel like I'm getting a response to a question I hadn't asked.
+--- 14921096
+>>14918058 (OP)
+Some of them did, and became jivanmuktas. Others became part of a religions institution. Others stick to Judaism, even if Christ made it become obsolete.
+
+Pic related is the Truth. You can feel it is the Truth deep inside. The Christ is in each and every single one of us.
+--- 14921187
+>>14921096
+
+Yeah... it's not like anyone was ever taught anything that they didn't already know.
+Nobody needs to learn anything - We're all knowing already!
+
+Fuck sake xD
+
+Oodles of stupid.
+--- 14921245
+>>14921187
+You know, but do you remember? Can you use all the knowledge you have?
+--- 14921305
+>>14921096
+>Others stick to Judaism, even if Christ made it become obsolete.
+
+>18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law (torah law) till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
+--- 14921366
+>>14921305
+The Truth was told. You don't have to be very observant to see that people don't care. That's why they live their lives in suffering. Even when the Truth is told to your face, you chose to ignore it, and then you ask yourself: "why my life experience is so miserable?"
+--- 14921450
+>>14921366
+I don't know why you're responding to me with that. There seems to be no correlation whatsoever. I posted how Jesus said that Torah law is still in place. He did not do away with it. It won't be over with until heaven and Earth pass away, until all is fullfilled. Jesus coming back as the Lion of Judah to fulfill the warrior end of the Messianic prophecy would be included in "all".
+--- 14922003
+>>14921366
+i mean i'm not miserable at all and i don't believe what you said
+--- 14922065
+>>14918394
+Are you really comparing a men forgotten by time with the most famous man who lived? Recognized by billions as the Messiah for thousands of years? Really?
+--- 14922327
+>>14921450
+I'm beyond logic, and so should you. Put down all your limitations, beause they are not really yours.

his/14918181.txt

@@ -12,3 +12,61 @@ HEIL HITLER
 Happy Birthday Uncle Addy 
 >>14918240
 You're not White.
+--- 14919291
+>>14918240
+Fuck off back to your country Josh "Bongbong" Hernandez
+--- 14920922
+>>14918181 (OP)
+HH
+--- 14920929
+>>14918181 (OP)
+He was such a Taurus, on my momma
+--- 14920935
+>>14918240
+Based
+--- 14920940
+Germans are responsible for ruining this world
+
+they are the epitome of subhuman and should all be killed
+
+only by culling the Kraut can humanity (Europe) flourish
+--- 14921005
+>>14920940
+This except the graphic needs to include Attila.
+--- 14921036
+>>14920940
+Jews are not german>>14920940
+--- 14921102
+>>14918240
+Yup
+--- 14921129
+>>14920940
+Eh, the Germans, as evil as they are, shake things up. Makes history more interesting.
+--- 14921144
+>>14920940
+Kys
+--- 14921968
+>>14919334
+hows the world revolution going?
+--- 14922245
+>>14921968
+>if you don't follow my failed ideology then you must follow that other failed ideology
+/pol/tranny cope
+--- 14922348
+>>14918228
+reddit tier opinion
+He was extremely based for 95% of his reign until he got btfod by the German princes. Do note that years prior he had mogged Austria pretty easily, he just assumed that the Prussian led Germans would be more of that.
+--- 14922569
+>>14922245
+go bow to your nigger overlords you pathetic mutt aka amerikneeler lol
+--- 14922655
+>>14922569
+>non-sequitor 
+You're a loser and normal people laugh at your "ideas".
+--- 14922737
+>>14920940
+>blaming Wilhelm II for the Great War
+Not really fair
+--- 14922998
+>>14918181 (OP)
+Based Bob Marley fan.

his/14918374.txt

@@ -17,3 +17,82 @@ This taking place in Ham's regions was important because Father Noah cursed his
 I imagine having something like a rainbow coat with bright colors back then would be pretty special.
 --- 14918452
 >>14918446
+--- 14918528
+>>14918446
+That didn't answer my historical question
+--- 14918560
+>>14918528
+You didn't close it off to answers of the faith. This is a board for both, gtfo nigger.
+--- 14918643
+>>14918374 (OP)
+Because they would not acknowledge him as their god or a god at all , or as their king
+--- 14918656
+Didn't happen.
+They didn't build the pyramids either.
+--- 14918957
+>>14918374 (OP)
+They likely lost in conflict and were brought into slavery
+--- 14918971
+>>14918374 (OP)
+The reason for the enslavement of the Hebrews is closely related to the ancient Egyptians' view of the world. In order to maintain the integrity of the sacred Ma'at, the Pharaoh, who has a superior bloodline and divine legitimacy, must preserve the social hierarchy by enslaving non-pharaonic tribes.
+--- 14918988
+>>14918374 (OP)
+>WHY the Pharoah enslaved the jews
+you dont know how a bronze age society worked.
+Except for kings, appointed rulers, priests and other elites in the country rest of the country were labourers and were slaves to the chosen elite. This was how it is in Sumeria too, farmer population were subserviant slaves to the local kings. Only exception would be merchants but being w merchant would be a literal suicide as you are risking being enslaved by a foreigner and/or being robbed by a marauder as you pass through the unprotected roads.
+--- 14918995
+>>14918988
+So, if Israelites were ever enslaved, they werent especially enslaved. Bronze age society was a slave socirty and they were just yet another part of common subserviant labourer portion.
+Compare this to plebians that werent considered citizens (just like slaves) until reforms and serfs (literally deriving from latin servus which means slave) in medieval Europe
+--- 14919029
+>>14918374 (OP)
+Pharaoh enslaved all types of people. It wasn't just Jews, even in that era. As the bible says, a "mixed multitude" were with the Israelites.
+>>14918957
+No, they were part of well known migrations that many Asiatics underwent during the period. Some of these very Asiatics eventually became rulers themselves (the Hyksos). By the 16th century, the Hyksos were gone, but a lot of people who enjoyed their rule were stuck with new rulers without the same relationship. As the bible says, the new Pharaohs did not know Joseph or their agreements with Israel, and started harshly treated them.
+--- 14919101
+>>14918374 (OP)
+
+its right there in the bible. the new pharaoh had no idea who all these foreigners were and feared that they would multiply and become mightier than the egyptians.
+--- 14919317
+Iit14918374
+Its explicitly written in the bible. The egyptians feared the Israelites would reproduce too much and ally with their enemies in some future war.
+They only went to egypt because there was a famine in Israel but then decided to stay
+--- 14919833
+>>14918374 (OP)
+OP here, sorry wrong picture
+--- 14919845
+>>14918988
+>>14918995
+>>14919029
+based understanders of bronze age mindset
+iltam sumra rashupti ilatim
+--- 14920783
+>>14918995
+they were enslaved compared to their nomadic pastoralist ancestors and cousins
+--- 14920908
+>>14919029
+I stand corrected.
+--- 14922113
+>>14918528
+Historically there is no answer. Exodus, Moses, etc it was all made up. There isn't a single (1) contemporary historical source that corroborates any of it.
+--- 14922287
+>>14918446
+Noah was kind of a dick for passing out naked
+--- 14922298
+>>14918656
+Who did
+--- 14922309
+>>14918374 (OP)
+The biblical account of the enslavement of the Israelites in Egypt is found in the Book of Exodus, which describes how the Pharaoh forced the Israelites into hard labor and enslaved them for over 400 years. However, it is important to note that there is a lack of historical evidence to support this account.
+
+There is no clear consensus among scholars as to the reason why the Pharaoh enslaved the Israelites. Some suggest that it was due to the growing population of Israelites in Egypt, which the Pharaoh saw as a potential threat to his rule. Others argue that it may have been due to religious or cultural differences, as the Israelites were monotheistic while the Egyptians were polytheistic.
+
+It is also important to note that the relationship between the Israelites and the Egyptians was complex and varied over time. For example, the biblical account of Joseph, who was sold into slavery in Egypt and eventually became a powerful advisor to the Pharaoh, suggests that there was a period of friendly relations between the two groups.
+
+The exact history of the Israelites in Egypt and their relationship with the Pharaohs is a matter of ongoing debate among historians and scholars. While there is some archaeological evidence to suggest that a group of Semitic people may have lived in Egypt during the time period in question, the exact identity and origins of these people remain unclear.
+--- 14922325
+>>14922298
+Egyptian wagies
+--- 14923695
+>>14919317
+Joseph hoarded grain for 7 years, and when famine struck he made a great profit for the Pharoah!

his/14918443.txt

@@ -5,3 +5,368 @@ There has never been any convincing evidence of any gods.
 Yea but the monotheistic ones are extra cringe, ngl
 --- 14918462
 Meaning?
+--- 14918630
+>>14918443 (OP)
+Atheists have no arguments against no theistic religions.
+--- 14918996
+>>14918443 (OP)
+Thats why its called faith.
+--- 14919076
+>>14918443 (OP)
+transcendence is evident
+transcendent being is evident
+transcendent being implies its own necessity, infinitude and perfection
+transcendent being has to be one
+transcendent being is being itself (ipsum esse)
+being itself (ipsum esse) is God
+--- 14919105
+>>14919076
+>transcendence is evident
+Why?
+--- 14919112
+>>14918443 (OP)
+>There has never been any convincing evidence of any gods.
+There's far less evidence for the good of mankind, but it's something atheists quickly latch on to. Which was their real motive all along. The unrestrained, human centric experience, every man a hero of his own ego tale. Damn the results.
+--- 14919116
+>>14919105
+1. because something cannot come out of nothing by itself
+
+2. because mutable substances don't have the capacity to be finished things within themselves. they are not the cause and principle of their own 'actus'. God is 'actus purus' and that's why substances can grow to be what they actually are and then die
+--- 14919118
+>>14919116
+>God is real because I fell for the meme and believe in outdated Catholic metaphysics
+lmao yeah this one's a classic
+--- 14919147
+>>14919118
+nah he wanted convincing arguments. The ones I gave were convincing for many centuries and it took a genius like Kant to fully dismantle them, despite commendable past efforts. And Kant was no atheist neither.
+
+To think that the idea of a God is a historical accident is silly. Every thinker must be respected wether his name is Aristotle, St. Thomas, Newton or Clerk Maxwell.
+--- 14919162
+>>14919112
+>human ego bad
+>human in the sky ego good
+--- 14919271
+>>14918996
+Usually a belief is grounded in something. Religion on the other hand have many things disproving their claims.
+--- 14919273
+>>14919116
+>because mutable substances don't have the capacity to be finished things within themselves. they are not the cause and principle of their own 'actus'. God is 'actus purus' and that's why substances can grow to be what they actually are and then die
+How have you never taken a biology class and learned anything
+--- 14919277
+>>14919116
+>something cannot come out of nothing
+>therefore Bible
+
+No one knows the origin story of the universe, but it sure as fuck ain't jewish myths involving talking snakes.
+--- 14919283
+you are likely too stupid to understand any of this, but for those who aren't it is / thread
+--- 14919284
+>>14919112
+What the fuck are you talking about. I'm just talking about the truth that we can observe.
+--- 14919286
+>>14919283
+didn't/won't read.
+
+There's no reason why the start of the universe is a bearded jewish sky wizard and not some natural process.
+
+Also why is your "god" a he? Gods don't need to reproduce. The existence of genders in gods implies that we made them in man's image.
+--- 14919292
+It always makes me laugh when people will make an argument fit the general idea of a creator and then in the next breath say it’s the god in the Bible without any argument to prove that.
+--- 14919296
+>>14919286
+>double digit IQ screeching
+didn't read lmao
+--- 14919315
+>>14919271
+>Usually a belief is grounded in something
+Lol
+--- 14919319
+>>14919296
+Religion is an NPC activity, anon.
+--- 14919349
+>>14919319
+what does religion have to do with math and science half wit? religions are just philosophies based on the interpretations of the math and science. Acknowledging there is a higher being and being religious are completely different things atheitards cant seem to process because just like the religitards they love to mock, they too are NPCs who can only regurgitate memes
+--- 14919361
+>>14918443 (OP)
+That is not an argument, but a dogma. This sentence shows your lack of creativity. The existence of God can't be proven nor disproven.
+--- 14919375
+>>14919361
+
+You are an idiot. There has never been any convincing evidence of any gods. If you claim otherwise, show us this evidence.
+--- 14919384
+>>14919349
+>what does religion have to do with math and science half wit?
+Nothing, which is why it's wrong.
+--- 14919389
+>>14919375
+No YOU are the idiot, because you act like you know something you don't. How much research have you ever done into the "proof" for god? I will bet everything I own you have never even jewgled it. You are a mouth breathing moron
+--- 14919404
+>>14919389
+
+You've found this "proof"? Show us.
+--- 14919409
+>>14919389
+>I will bet everything I own
+You don't own anything, your mom owns it timmy.
+--- 14919413
+>>14919404
+Do I look like your personal fucking tutor? kys you massively retarded fucktard
+--- 14919421
+"...Heraclitus is said to have spoken to those strangers who wished to meet him but stopped as they were approaching as they saw him warming himself by the oven - he bade them enter without fear, 'for there are gods here too'..."
+
+atheists are strangers who will never be comfy until they take a step forward
+--- 14919423
+>>14919413
+No, you look like someone without any argument. Which is what you are.
+--- 14919430
+>>14919421
+>"...Heraclitus is said to have spoken to those strangers who wished to meet him but stopped as they were approaching as they saw him warming himself by the oven - he bade them enter without fear, 'for there are gods here too'..."
+wtf are you talking about
+
+>atheists are strangers who will never be comfy until they take a step forward
+out of context similes aren't proof
+--- 14919461
+>>14919430
+>wtf are you talking about
+Aristotle motherfucker. Read a fucking book goddamn
+
+>out of context similes aren't proof
+i know. I just wanted to reiterate a 2000 year old sentiment because you're obviously not here to engage in theological discussions concernig the evidence for the existence of God. St Thomas himself could be posting ITT and you'd call him a retard
+--- 14919471
+>>14919461
+>for the existence of God
+of which there is none*
+--- 14919476
+>>14919461
+What do Yeshua's cultists have to do with god?
+--- 14919541
+>>14919471
+>>14919423
+>>14919384
+--- 14919550
+>>14919541
+0 arguments
+--- 14919551
+>>14919471
+I agree. You need faith and the case for faith can be made philosophically
+
+>>14919476
+By 'Yeshua's cultists' you mean the Holy Church? In that case a lot actually. It's not a cult though
+--- 14919568
+>>14919551
+*by 'I agree' I mean the kind of evidence you're asking for doesn't exist. but other kinds of evidence do exist
+--- 14919570
+>>14919551
+>the case for faith can be made philosophically
+Explain
+
+>>14919551
+Yeshua was a heretical cultleader, christianity started when his followers coped when he got BTFO
+
+Saul himself says it with "if there is no afterlife, then jesus died in vain!", which he did.
+--- 14919573
+>>14919568
+>other kinds of evidence do exist
+Such as?
+--- 14919588
+>>14919550
+>0 arguments
+--- 14919644
+>>14919570
+>Explain
+No.
+
+Off the top of my head:
+Book VII of St Augustine's Confessions
+Kant's Religion within the limits of mere reason, third part, first section
+Wittgenstein's Lecture on Ethics
+--- 14919702
+>>14919644
+You’re like those communists that get questioned and say “it’s not my job to educate you”
+--- 14919804
+>>14919702
+>“it’s not my job to educate you”
+because it isn't. i'm not a seasoned teacher and i'd probably fuck up such subtle arguments. I said the case for faith can be made philosophically because it has actually been made, and gave you examples. If I seriously wanted to explain this it would require the time and effort needed for an essay, not a 4chan post.
+I have too much respect for what these guys wrote down to let it be butchered by me on a shitty 4chan post that I know you would've just shoved off anyway, regardless of how elegantly i managed to present it, because that fedora is seriously heavy on you right now.
+
+but i'm confident in the fact that pointing out those texts to you is 900 times better than just going "ACKTCHUALLY THERE'S NO EVIDENCE" on and on. If you're ever interested on the matter though, you won't be able to say that you haven't been told were to go. And i'm sure other people could mention many other texts too.
+--- 14919831
+>>14919644
+
+If any of those were solid evidence of gods, they would be universally persuasive. They're not. You're just referring to a bunch of empty rhetoric.
+--- 14919904
+>>14919831
+so, what you want is the language of positive sciences to talk about religion? is this more or less correct?
+--- 14920232
+>>14919904
+If someone tells me they have a Ferrari and they start saying shit like this when I doubt them I would turn 360 degrees and walk away. 
+Similarly if they said fairies were real. 
+
+Forget the word science exists. Prove the thing you claim is real is real. When you don’t because you can’t, strongly consider the possibility that it’s imaginary
+--- 14920244
+>>14918443 (OP)
+Yeah, my foot up your ass!
+--- 14920607
+Read
+--- 14920626
+>>14919283
+Atheists dont believe something came from nothing. The universe is eternal
+--- 14920631
+>>14920626
+>The universe is eternal
+Big Bang denialism entered the chat, the thread goes to trash from now on
+--- 14920691
+>>14920631
+truth is...the thread was shit from the start
+--- 14920745
+>>14920244
+This is some good shit
+--- 14920784
+>>14920631
+The big bang wasn't the beginning of everything, retard. It's just the rapid expansion of shit that already existed.
+--- 14920847
+>>14918443 (OP)
+what about racial equality?
+--- 14921304
+>>14920631
+>from now on
+it was born with original trash.
+--- 14921716
+>>14920232
+Well said. You don't need "science" to disprove god, common sense suffices.
+--- 14921727
+>>14919277
+How do you know?
+--- 14921735
+>>14920232
+>>14921716
+Prove gravity exists.
+--- 14921753
+>>14921727
+Well for starters, we know the world wasn't made as Genesis describes.
+--- 14921763
+>>14921735
+have you tried dropping something? or maybe falling down
+--- 14921771
+>>14921727
+Snakes lack vocal cords and the ability to talk.
+--- 14921773
+>>14918443 (OP)
+False, because NDEs are real and prove that there is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die. And while the Bible and the Qu'ran convinces few people who do not already believe, the book in pic related is known to convince even hardened skeptics that there is an afterlife. And NDErs talk about God running the afterlife. Therefore God exists.
+
+Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:
+
+https://youtu.be/U00ibBGZp7o [Embed]
+
+It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:
+
+https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist 
+
+>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
+
+Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE, the same thing is happening, but on a higher level, as you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the undeniably real world by comparison.
+
+Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:
+
+>"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."
+
+Needless to say, even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs.
+--- 14921776
+>>14918443 (OP)
+just think you might burn in hell for eternity maybe you will be more inclined to consider
+--- 14921781
+>>14921776
+you are a weak and fearful man with no self-confidence evidently
+--- 14921796
+>>14921781
+cringe
+--- 14921798
+>>14921796
+truth hurts
+--- 14921807
+>>14921776
+I'm not scared of boogeymen. Sorry. Maybe you should grow up.
+--- 14921811
+>>14921773
+NDEs are the brain crapping itself. Nothing more than hallucinations.
+--- 14921816
+>>14921811
+anyone whose taken good enough acid should know that this is possible as a mere chemical experience
+--- 14921818
+>>14921776
+Prove hell and immortal souls are real.
+--- 14921836
+>>14921818
+no need to prove, you will just find out when you die ;)
+--- 14921840
+>>14921836
+meanwhile you live a castrated life as a christian on the hope that you’re right
+--- 14921846
+>>14921776
+Am I getting coal for Christmas too you peasant brained pussy
+--- 14921847
+>>14918443 (OP)
+So you believe in a fairy dust that can magically shapeshift into various living beings?
+
+Tell us more about your imaginary dust friend, OP.
+--- 14921860
+>>14921847
+What fairy dust? You mean the carbon nitrogen, hydrogen and oxygen that compose your body bonded together like everything else? 
+
+This is like a club for retards that failed science classes
+--- 14921868
+>>14921847
+Fairy dust is analogous to your jewish sky wizard making things
+--- 14921881
+>>14921860
+for real, we should just leave this site to the unwashed christian masses and congregate irl at our high paying research and development jobs
+--- 14921953
+>>14921881
+>high paying research and development jobs
+ my lad you're a 4chan poster not a member of the academic community nor will you ever be one
+--- 14921958
+>>14921860
+What a retard lol. 
+
+The human body is made up of living cells, if you lump a bunch of carbon, nitrogen, hydrogen, and oxygen you don't magically create a cell you at best get a protein which is why abiogenesis has never been observed and will never be replicated.
+--- 14921974
+>>14921953
+I was in academia and I work in R&D at a corporation, so suck it
+- Atheist
+--- 14921975
+>>14921958
+>abiogenesis has not been observed and replicated, therefore the jewish god did it with magic
+--- 14921982
+>muh evidence
+lol
+Evidence and reason is for fags.
+A man that can be swayed by "reason" and evidence, is a man who can be made to believe anything if sufficiently convincing evidence is forged and presented to him by an "expert".
+
+A man of faith on the other hand is immune to such manipulations.
+--- 14922001
+>>14919116
+>1. because something cannot come out of nothing by itself
+Why?
+--- 14922009
+>>14921975
+>the magic dust will shapeshift into a cell if we wait long enough!!!
+>trust the plan bro 
+>2 more billion years
+--- 14922209
+>>14922001
+the world puts itself into existence before it exists?
+--- 14922235
+>>14921982
+nobody gonna make you change your mind if you don't want to
+--- 14922452
+>>14921974
+told y’all
+--- 14922460
+>>14922209
+You just said something can't come from nothing. How do you know?
+--- 14922519
+>>14922009
+yeah but what about the jew god and talking snake?
+--- 14922526
+>>14921727
+>plants were created before the sun bro

his/14919020.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,91 @@
+-----
+--- 14919020
+What are the moral implications of compelled speech?
+--- 14919027
+It's weird that people potray troons as ugly freaks to shit on them. Like the delusion they harbour is not the problem but their ugliness. Does it not kind of apply that people will accept the presence of troons if they were all attractive women? I would say transgenderism would even be promoted if that's the case.
+--- 14919038
+>>14919027
+That's exactly what this is about. Right-wing ideology is essentially 100% aesthetics, 0% content. It is very superficial.
+--- 14919087
+>>14919027
+because depicting people as ugly/silly compels you to dislike them, its basic human behaviour
+>>14919038
+delusional, its just that attractive/successful people are attracted to right-wing ideologies because they tend to promote "you/we are the best! we deserve our success! go out and there and pull your bootstraps up the world is your oyster!" and people who are rich/successful/attractive will start to think "yeah thats totally me and i earned it on my own" even if they were born into a wealthy family or whatever
+whereas leftwing ideologies are attractive to unattractive/unsuccessful/loser types (and women because women are extremely sympathetic/empathic to a fault). like seriously finding an attractive left-winger is so hard, hasan abi is basically the only attractive left-winger on the planet and every leftie lives vicariously through him
+--- 14919108
+>>14919087
+I think you are confusing "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" with successful people. I also don't think right wingers being mostly "attractive" is true when you look at a typical Trump supporter on twitter. I think the right wing ideologies attract wannabes and narcissists who think they are better than others without anything to show for it. Like your typical forklift operators who think they are gift to the Earth and retards who think they are movie characters from 50s just because they can fix a toilet.
+--- 14919136
+>>14919087
+>Umm...we good and ur bad
+Sad that someone can make it to adulthood with 0 nuisance in their perception of the world. Just low IQ sports team tier babble.
+--- 14919182
+>>14919027
+not being ugly is more important to trannys than the typical cariciture thoughever
+--- 14919215
+>>14919038
+>that's exactly what this is about
+Shut up, retard. What it's about is understanding how changing opinions actually works. All the argumentation comes after feelings like shock and disgust. No presentation of crime statistics or thousands of years worth of failed black civilizations will do more to shake the average person's faith in blackness than a few webms of blacks casually assaulting whites. People only remember how something made them feel, not what was said or done. Discomfort, disdain, laughing at things you shouldn't. All of these things are just time tested means of social engineering. Anonymity just allows it to go to a level well beyond what leftwing media has done to dehumanize rightwingers for the last several decades. 
+
+Chudjak is a great example of how the right weaponizes ugliness. The left holds up that image as "this is you, an ugly person" but unlike all the horrific troons, the chud is easily appropriated into something "based" for the right, because they're willing to go into uncomfortable territory that leftists cannot.
+--- 14919272
+>>14919020 (OP)
+No one is compelling you to speak. It is your choice to be obsessed.
+--- 14919288
+>>14919038
+the irony here .....
+--- 14919306
+>>14919215
+> All the argumentation comes after feelings like shock and disgust
+This is what the right actually believes, because their so-called ideology is essentially 100% aesthetics right down to its core arguments, and then they seething when you directly point it out.
+--- 14919309
+>>14919038
+The fact that so many Tankies still defend North Korea (which has literally abandoned Marxism entirely) kind of indicates that the same applies to the Left. It's all performance and show.
+--- 14919316
+>>14919027
+isnt that just because they get the photoshop treatment everywhere else?
+--- 14919320
+>>14919215
+>Chudjak is a great example of how the right weaponizes ugliness. The left holds up that image as "this is you, an ugly person" but unlike all the horrific troons, the chud is easily appropriated into something "based" for the right,
+There's genuinely something to commend there. Everytime people try to make fun of /pol/, they just kind of roll with it and embrace the caricature. They know they're societal rejects, they revel in it, it's an actual counter culture
+--- 14919501
+>>14919108
+Left-wing ideologies only attract narcissistic losers who envy and hate hetero white men. Being a leftist is just a copium over inferiority complex towards white man's civilization.
+--- 14919517
+>>14919501
+>openly hates people for being born brown or black
+>NOOOO THEY DONT ACTUALLY HAVE ANY VALID GRIPES THEY JUST HATE ME BECAUSE IM WHITE AND PERFECT
+completely disconnected from reality. An entirely narcissistic belief that your own reasoning applies to every disagreement you encounter.
+--- 14919699
+I refuse to validate troons view of their "true selves" as the very notion of a "true self" is idealistic and therefore anti-scientific. I will NEVER kowtow to the neo-eunuchs.
+
+It's like saying my dog is a woman because I had his balls removed
+--- 14919880
+>>14919501
+Thats exactly what I was saying. You are associating yourself with greats by calling it "white man's civilization" despite being a nobody. I am not even arguing against genetic differences but blue collar workers and wagies equating themselves with Napoleon/Alexander and thinking they are inherently better than others without anything to show for it is giga cringe.You think just because you agree with a ideology that supports the strong means you are strong.
+--- 14920366
+>>14919306
+>This is what the right actually believes
+That is literally, hardcoded, what socially engineering is. Emotions first, then when in the vulnerable state people can be made to either form their own rhetoric or listen to someone else's. You are genuinely stupid if you don't know this.
+--- 14920439
+>>14919020 (OP)
+Speech is violence, chud.
+--- 14920643
+>>14919517
+I wouldn't hate niggers if they stopped acting like niggers. I wouldn't hate jews if they stopped making a mockery out of "democracy".
+--- 14920670
+>>14919517
+--- 14921175
+>>14920670
+fake
+--- 14921206
+>>14919215
+That’s a lie. All the hot young people nowadays are liberal. Right wing ideology is for obese boomers and people who got bullied in school.
+--- 14921217
+The loud presence of anti-trans conservatives in every corner of the internet making edgy comments disproves their controlled speech/censorship fantasy.
+--- 14922143
+>>14921206
+That doesn't even address what was said at all.
+--- 14922291
+>>14919027
+The point with it is that men do not look like women and cannot look like women.

his/14919200.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,101 @@
+-----
+--- 14919200
+There is all this talk of Taiwan constantly, but why doesn't China invade outer Mongolia right now?
+
+They have always claimed Mongolia, and right now absolutely no one would be able to stop them.
+
+ The Soviet Union would have fought a war in Mongolia to defend it from China, but right now Russia can't do anything to defend it and the Mongolian economy is subservient to China. 
+
+If they want to invade a preciously owned territory, why not outer Mongolia?
+--- 14919219
+>>14919200 (OP)
+Because having a buffer-state between China, Russia, & the Stans is beneficial for China. China also doesn't need an extra population of Non-Han minorities and anything remotely important in Mongolia can be easily bought by China. As you yourself has stated.
+
+There is also no Nationalistic/Cultural motivation as well. Mongolia has always been seen as barbarian lands, whereas "LE UNIFICATION OF THE CHINESE PEOPLE" makes up a lot of Chinese nationalism and history.
+--- 14919228
+>>14919200 (OP)
+Mongolia is of little value and threat compared Taiwan. Conquering Taiwan furthers Chinas interest in the pacific while at the same time removing a threat to the mainland. While conquering would draw international ire to something that brings little benefit to China
+--- 14919258
+>>14919200 (OP)
+China doesn't claim Mongolia
+--- 14919267
+>>14919200 (OP)
+>Why can't paper tiger into real tiger?
+
+Even Poland can afford a bigger expeditionary force.
+--- 14919294
+>>14919258
+This. Ironically, the Taiwanese government does though.
+--- 14919326
+>>14919258
+>>14919219
+Mongolia was part of China until Russia invaded it during the Russian civil war, the KMT never acknowledged Mongolia as independent and the CCP probably just recognized Mongolia as a temporary cuck move to garner support from the Russians. The same arguments about buffer state and lack of territorial value can be made about Tibet and yet they invaded Tibet because there was no Soviet Union on the other side to fight them over it.
+--- 14919348
+>>14919219
+They don't want the Mongolians, they want to be closer to the Siberian water reservoirs
+--- 14919386
+>>14919219
+>>Because having a buffer-state between China, Russia, & the Stans is beneficial for China.
+There is an antire fucking desert that does that without any need for buffer states.
+--- 14919623
+>>14919386
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14919794
+>>14919386 
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14919948
+>>14919386 
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14920161
+>>14919326
+And today nobody in China gives a shit about Outer Mongolia.
+--- 14920178
+>>14919200 (OP)
+>They have always claimed Mongolia
+They stopped after 1949, and they didn't invade it when the Sino Soviet split would've justified it, and the government now are complacent social democrats, there's no reason for it
+--- 14920249
+>>14919386
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14920272
+So /his/ is finally, after all the raids, a blue board /pol/.
+--- 14920299
+>>14919326
+China never recognized Tibet, and most countries recognized Tibet as part of China - even the west only switched that position once Mao won.
+Withdrawing recognition of a country you and everyone else recognizes and invading it is the kind of move that freaks out every country around and not just the westoid puppets/US bloc, and they don't want to deal with the diplomatic fallout.
+--- 14920376
+>>14919386
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14920914
+>>14919386 
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14920946
+>>14920272
+Yep
+--- 14921055
+>>14920299
+AFAIK, no foreign nations recognised it as an independent state. But Britain did historically regard China as having suzerainty - and not sovereignty - over Tibet, which in 1943 Anthony Eden stated to the Chinese foreign minister was recognised as being under Chinese suzerainty "on the understanding that Tibet is to be regarded as autonomous." This position changed in 2008, when David Milliband issued a statement recognising Tibet as part of the People's Republic of China.
+--- 14921156
+>>14919386
+Fucking most retarded fucking shit I seen all week.
+--- 14921273
+>>14919200 (OP)
+Speaking plainly, it is because Outer Mongolia is a useless shithole. It has some minor natural resources, but nothing exorbitant. About half of the entire population lives just in the capital, and that percentage increases every year. There are only about 4 million people in the whole country.
+Taiwan, by contrast, has something like 44 million people. It has high technology, heavy industry, great infrastructure, and so on. Taiwan is significantly more valuable than Outer Mongolia.
+Additionally, the "Taiwanese" are mostly Han Chinese and share a common cultural/ethnic heritage with the mainland. This means it is far easier to claim Taiwan than it is to claim Mongolia. 
+Lastly, China already gets everything it wants from Mongolia anyway. Mongolia knows it is vulnerable for the reasons you yourself have identified. If China wishes to extract resources or deploy troops, they will allow it to. Presently, however, it serves a useful buffer-state with Russia.
+--- 14921311
+>>14921273
+Outer Mongolia does have significant natural resources, and if China took it over, they wouldn't have to be shared with Russian and Western interests anymore.
+--- 14921324
+>>14919386
+Very intelligent and insightful post, anon. I've never thought about it like that.
+--- 14921333
+>>14920272
+jannies tongue my nigger anus
+>Verification not required.
+--- 14921385
+>>14919200 (OP)
+Because that would leave them alone against the US and its allies. Taking Mongolia right now would mean isolation of China from everyone.
+--- 14922860
+>>14919200 (OP)
+China wants control over Taiwan to help maintain control over the surrounding sea because trade is useful. Mongolia is not useful, and certainly not as useful as having a friend on the world stage - even if that friend is Russia.

his/14919226.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,135 @@
+-----
+--- 14919226
+How did Canada's leaf flag actually end up displacing the much more stately Red Ensign? How did this debate actually happen?
+
+>Hey guys; let's abandon the Red Ensign for a flag which is WAY SHITTIER!
+
+And Canadians said 'yes' to this? Why? What did the actual debate/discussion over this topic look like in 1965?
+--- 14919287
+>>14919226 (OP)
+Canada didn't have an official flag; the Red Ensign served as the de facto flag of Canada
+--- 14919289
+>cuckstamp
+--- 14919295
+>>14919226 (OP)
+Quebec happened. Obviously appeasing the French Canadians was a necessity to try and keep the country somewhat cohesive, so the flag had to be changed to do away with the obvious "YALLZ GOT CONQUERED NIGGAS!" symbolism.
+Also the fact that the British Empire was no more and Americanism was swamping Canada like a Tsunami.
+--- 14919302
+>>14919287
+le this 
+This flag was never actually "the flag", it was literally improv. Strictly speaking, Canada's flag was the literal pure Union Jack itself still.
+The Red Ensign is literally just what British merchant ships flew. The current Canadian flag is actually taken from the Royal Military College.
+--- 14920212
+Love it or hate it the leaf flag is striking, unique, and instantly recognisable, along with representing the physical land of Canada in the most basic way. It's literally a better flag functionally in all aspects than the red ensign. 
+That being said, the canadian red ensign is kino
+Also the two world wars did a number on Quebec. While not a pressing reason, there's no doubt that the flag change was in part to make Quebec shut up about anglo-imperialism for once
+--- 14920227
+>only the bottom part of the shield actually represents Canada instead of Britain or France
+history's most cucked flag, and it still had three leafs in there as Canada's national symbol
+--- 14920450
+https://web.archive.org/web/20190912202105/https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/services/flag-canada-history.html#a25
+--- 14920479
+>>14919226 (OP)
+Somebody tried appeasing the French when the French don't fly the leaf flag anyways.
+
+Go to Quebec and the overwhelming majority of flags that are flying is the Quebec flag.
+
+If you see the leaf flag, it's just at the post office and some hotels(not de ville or police).
+
+There's more Canadian flags flying on the Vermont side of the border.
+--- 14920492
+>>14920479
+God, I hate the Quebecers.
+--- 14920499
+>>14919226 (OP)
+When did Canada stop seeing itself as a domain of the British people and start seeing itself as an independent nation? What caused it?
+--- 14920514
+>>14920499
+Probably with the US pushing it's decolonization shit in WW2.
+--- 14920522
+>>14920514
+So American propaganda caused people to stop thinking of themselves as Britons living in Canada and start thinking of themselves as Canadians? Why didn't that happen sooner?
+--- 14920531
+>>14920479
+Based anti-anglo Quebecers.
+--- 14920543
+>>14920479
+>Somebody tried appeasing the French when the French don't fly the leaf flag anyways.
+>>14920499
+After WW2.
+>>14920514 is a smoothbrained faggot. Do your own research
+--- 14920548
+Because why have some other countrys flag when you can have your own?
+--- 14920553
+>>14920514
+God, America is based.
+--- 14920566
+>>14920553
+At one time, my friend. At one time.
+--- 14921074
+>>14919302
+>Strictly speaking, Canada's flag was the literal pure Union Jack itself still.
+vgh sovl
+--- 14921474
+>>14920543
+>Flag has English red, but no French blue
+>Why aren't the French using the flag
+--- 14921668
+>>14921474
+Pretty sure the French white is in the flag though.
+--- 14922008
+>>14921474
+Blue is from Parisian colours, White is the official colour of France (not even memeing). Red/blue was colour of Paris+White was dedicated to colour of the monarchy... before they decided to murder him
+--- 14922014
+I actually like both flags. 
+I'm more mad about the fact that they axed The Maple Leaf Forever as their national anthem.
+--- 14922025
+>>14920543
+>>14920499
+WW1 & Vimy Ridge were important for Canada's move towards sovereignty, WW2 is too late for the timeline ex: Canada automatically joined Britain in declaring war in 1914, but was given the choice to join Britain in WW2 (Sept 3 vs Sept 10 declarations).
+--- 14922032
+>>14922014
+Northwest Passage is the deserved anthem
+--- 14922385
+>>14920499
+Vimy ridge.
+
+Canadian independence was a very gradual thing though. It was self governing in 1867, and gained control of foreign affairs in 1931. It gained full control of its constitution in 1982.
+
+The King is simultaneously King of the UK, & King of Canada (and a bunch of other places). The same person wearing two hats (and more). So Canada is in a sense an independent kingdom with the same king as the UK.
+--- 14922395
+>>14919226 (OP)
+The decision to replace the Red Ensign with the current flag of Canada, the Maple Leaf flag, was a contentious one that occurred over several decades.
+
+The Red Ensign had been the de facto national flag of Canada since the late 19th century, but it was not an official national symbol. In the early 1960s, the Canadian government began to consider adopting a new flag as a symbol of the country's growing independence from Great Britain.
+
+The debate over a new flag design was highly polarized, with many Canadians favoring the traditional Red Ensign and others advocating for a new, distinctly Canadian symbol. The debate intensified in 1964, when Prime Minister Lester B. Pearson formed a committee to select a new flag design.
+
+The committee received over 2,600 designs from the public, and after much debate and consideration, it ultimately recommended the design that is now known as the Maple Leaf flag. The design features a red field with a white square in the center, bordered by two vertical red bars and featuring a stylized, eleven-pointed red maple leaf in the center.
+
+The new flag design was not immediately accepted by all Canadians, and it faced significant opposition from those who favored the traditional Red Ensign. However, the Maple Leaf flag was officially adopted as Canada's national flag on February 15, 1965.
+
+Today, the Maple Leaf flag is widely recognized as a symbol of Canadian identity, and it is flown proudly by Canadians both at home and abroad. While the debate over the flag was contentious at the time, the adoption of the Maple Leaf flag is now widely regarded as a turning point in Canadian history, symbolizing the country's independence and its emergence as a modern, multicultural nation.
+--- 14922400
+>>14920227
+>colonial settlers from britain and france include the symbols of britain and france in their flag
+How is this cucked?
+--- 14922403
+>>14919226 (OP)
+>stately
+
+Its an unrecognizable piece of shit.
+--- 14922449
+>>14922400
+Canada's an independent country and its flag should reflect this fact, instead of adding a cuck shield to the cuck stamp
+England, Scotland, and Ireland are already reflected in the canton, you don't need to give them most of the shield as well
+--- 14923674
+>>14920479
+There used to be issues where people would still our flags on Canada Day.
+--- 14923678
+>>14919226 (OP)
+The red ensign is shit. Our current flag is so much better.
+--- 14923683
+>import hundreds of thousands of paddies, wogs, hohols and balkaniggers
+>EYYYYYYY I DON'T FEEL REPRESENTED BY THE NATIONAL FLAG OVA 'ERE!
+Don't know what they expected

his/14919344.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,110 @@
+-----
+--- 14919344
+What are optimismfags optimistic about when death is inevitable? You will die, your loved ones will die, and the universe will die.
+--- 14919353
+>>14919344 (OP)
+There are many wonderful things to be optimistic about, even if they're bound to death. I can enjoy the love of a lifetime, the beauty of a sunrise, or the delicious taste of a meal -- even if they all eventually perish. 
+
+Life is brief, but it is not worthless.
+--- 14919357
+>>14919353
+>Life is brief, but it is not worthless.
+--- 14919358
+>>14919344 (OP)
+I didn't choose to be born and I won't choose when I die. What I can choose is to have fun with the in-between.
+--- 14919362
+>>14919358
+>What I can choose is to have fun with the in-between.
+--- 14919374
+>>14919357
+The laughing frogs won't help you deal with your existential dread, anon.
+--- 14919378
+>>14919357
+>>14919362
+You're free to kill yourself anytime. Practice what you preach.
+--- 14919381
+>>14919374
+Au contraire, laughing feels good
+--- 14919387
+>>14919344 (OP)
+>What are optimismfags
+Do these exist anymore?
+--- 14919574
+>>14919344 (OP)
+Okay, whatever. Why the hell would I choose to cry and shit myself like a baby, if I could also have a good time and cherish my life? Why the hell would anyone torture themselves for no gain?
+--- 14920006
+>You will die, your loved ones will die, and the universe will die.
+alright so
+--- 14920014
+>>14919344 (OP)
+Yet you still choose to live, you negative faggot
+--- 14920046
+>What are optimismfags optimistic about when death is inevitable? You will die, your loved ones will die, and the universe will die.
+--- 14920056
+I like life if I try to like it. Am happy if I try to be happy, and it stopped being a thing I needed to want to do long ago. The people who carry existential with them everywhere they go are miserable and unhealthy. I got one life afaik, not gonna spend it being a wet blanket. Like all women.
+--- 14920060
+Why should I believe that death is real? I've never died.
+--- 14920169
+Then Christ Jesus will rise me up and I will be with God in heaven for eternity
+--- 14920179
+>>14919344 (OP)
+>>14919357
+try reading some existentialism anon, Kierkegaard and Nietzsche are a great place to start :)
+--- 14920182
+>>14919344 (OP)
+I’m optimistic BECAUSE death is inevitable, retard.
+--- 14920189
+>>14920179
+>Nietzsche
+He was a pre post-modernist, not an existentialist.
+--- 14920199
+>>14919344 (OP)
+>You will die, your loved ones will die, and the universe will die
+So? Doesn't stop me from enjoying my life, sounds like you have a skill issue.
+--- 14920202
+>>14919344 (OP)
+Why would I, knowing that I have a limited time to exist, willingly choose to spend that time being miserable?
+--- 14920215
+>>14920189
+no, just no
+--- 14921294
+>>14919344 (OP)
+An end to my misery.
+--- 14922612
+>>14920202
+>>14920199
+>>14920046
+>>14920014
+>>14920006
+>>14919574
+>>14919378
+Why do I always get this cop-out response like you fags actually enjoy life
+--- 14922694
+>>14922612
+i do enjoy life
+--- 14922706
+>>14922694
+--- 14923099
+>>14919344 (OP)
+God is eternal. Cheer up.
+--- 14923118
+>>14919344 (OP)
+Because you don't have a choice. Cry and die or smile and die. 
+
+Same ending, different journey. However one is a lot more funner than the other.
+
+If you were living such a good life it is unlikely you would ponder such a question. Maybe take steps to obtain a state of contentedness and fulfillment? Try working on your mental and physical health and less screen time.
+--- 14923124
+>>14919344 (OP)
+And isn't that reason enough for optimism??
+--- 14923176
+>>14922706
+suit yourself weirdo
+i'll continue to enjoy life, may you do the same
+--- 14923213
+>>14923099
+In 5000 years Yahweh will be completely forgotten along with all the other gods to give room for the new gods in town if humanity is even alive by then.
+Wow so eternal.
+--- 14923427
+>>14923213
+>two more weeks

his/14919436.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,40 @@
+-----
+--- 14919436
+What is Saint Brigid holding?
+--- 14919875
+A cross?
+--- 14921017
+>>14919436 (OP)
+Soothing to chat gpt:
+
+
+>In many hagiographic icons saint Brigid is shown holding something like a bowl with flames coming out of it. What is that?
+
+>The depiction of Saint Brigid holding a bowl with flames coming out of it in hagiographic icons is a reference to a famous story associated with her known as the "Miracle of the Eternal Fire." According to the legend, Saint Brigid was able to keep a sacred fire burning perpetually in her monastery in Kildare, Ireland, during the early medieval period.
+
+>The story goes that Saint Brigid requested land from the local chieftain to build a monastery, but the chieftain refused. Undeterred, Saint Brigid asked for a smaller piece of land that would only be large enough to build a small chapel. The chieftain granted her request, but he also made it clear that she could only have enough wood to build the chapel, and the wood was to be used only once. However, Saint Brigid built the chapel using only one bundle of wood, but the fire that was lit during the consecration of the chapel remained miraculously burning for years, providing warmth and light to the monastery.
+
+>The bowl with flames coming out of it in the iconography of Saint Brigid represents this miraculous fire that burned perpetually in her monastery, symbolizing her holiness, purity, and her special connection to the divine. It is often depicted as a bowl or a cauldron, and the flames emanating from it represent the eternal flame that was said to have burned in her monastery, even though it was only fueled by a single bundle of wood. This iconographic representation of Saint Brigid with the eternal fire has become a significant symbol associated with her and is commonly depicted in art and icons depicting her.
+--- 14921023
+>>14921017
+Soothing = According
+--- 14921465
+>>14919436 (OP)
+Shuriken, duh
+--- 14922741
+>>14919436 (OP)
+Depending on the hand you’re talking about, either a bowl with something in it that’s on fire, or a cross.
+--- 14922799
+[CRUZ DE CAÍN] + [CRUZ DE CRISTO] = CRUZ DE SANTA BRÍGIDA.
+--- 14923103
+>>14919436 (OP)
+One hand is a special cross associated with her.
+
+The other is a big fire, as she was often associated with eternal fires. Many monasteries bearing her name had them, until King Henry VIII shut them down.
+--- 14923647
+>>14919436 (OP)
+The goddess Bride's symbol is in her right hand, and her forge fire is in her left hand. St. Brigid is the Irish Catholic Christianized version of the goddess.
+--- 14923650
+>>14923103
+>eternal fire
+eyy, that is Zoroastrianism

his/14919553.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,25 @@
+-----
+--- 14919553
+John Maynard Keynes was 6'7". Milton Friedman was 5'0". Therefore, Keynesianism>Neoliberalism. Any questions?
+--- 14919597
+It was obvious. Why do you think it was called "keyed" instead of "based"?
+--- 14921104
+>>14919553 (OP)
+physiognomy check
+--- 14921142
+>>14921104
+Why are you incels so obsessed with looks?
+--- 14921188
+>>14921142
+Post face and I will answer
+--- 14921200
+>>14921188
+I want to see your beautiful physiognomy first.
+--- 14921214
+>>14921142
+Well Keynes was a weird looking dude there's no denying that
+--- 14921230
+>>14921200
+--- 14922649
+>>14921200
+I'm waiting.

his/14919690.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,94 @@
+-----
+--- 14919690
+Give me the skinny on Buddhism, it seems like the chilliest major religion out of them all but there has to be some cons that I don't know about.
+--- 14919693
+Dumb autocorrect, I meant chillest not chilliest.
+--- 14919726
+>>14919690 (OP)
+“Chillest” in what way?
+Being purified by torment in hell for a quadrillion years (not an exaggeration) isn’t very chill. Unless you mean it in a western approach to Buddhism, which is basically just feel-good atheism.
+--- 14919740
+>>14919726
+These are the types on cons that I'm looking for, tell me some bad shit. Also, when I say chillest I say that because I don't think I've ever seen a Buddhist monk that wasn't super chill and that attitude has to come from somewhere.
+--- 14919756
+>>14919740
+No buddhism is insanely hard, it's just they dont give a shit about societies and normies. Here are the major 2 branches of indian religions. Hinduism and Mahayana, Zen, Vajaryana are a monistic Universalism: the totality exists and nothing else. There is no multiplicity, everything is absolutely identical. THis is qualified of ''acosmatic''
+ They mix this view with a huge amount of symbols, incantations, rituals, worship, idolatry, mantras, deities, chanting,entertainment reading with lengthy Scriptures with thousands of verses, sacrifice and sacred objects, and rules for lay people in order to create a religion.
+ For the Hindus and mahayanists, people have the knowledge that they have a true nature, but people are misguided on what they take as their true nature. This is why the Hindus say that people are already enlightened, they just do not know about it... The true nature of people is not the 5 senses or their objects, but the mind itself with the world [loka] itself identified with the cosmos, or their deification of this, ie their Brahma or their Buddha or non-duality, and when people realize this they are enlightened. The way to realize this is by relying on lots of sacrifice, chantings and rituals, also on material objects which magically purify the minds for them, like sounds, logic, mantras, little beads, amulets.
+ Mahayana-Hinduism tries to make a human society, some political system too.
+
+ It is only when there is a allegedly good creator [a god or just ''nature''] that it makes sense to ask the usual question ''why the cosmos produce things which do not know that they are the cosmos?'' ie ''why some good god did not get people to be born directly enlightened? instead of being born unenlightened which produces lots of suffering?''
+--- 14919758
+>>14919740
+There are definitely plenty of hardass monks. The Buddhist elite in Tibet were notoriously abusive and exploitative, and there is an active genocide in Myanmar being aided and perpetuated by Buddhist monks. Most generally are easygoing but Buddhism isn’t meant to be a kumbaya, feel-good, hand holding pseudo atheistic way of life. There’s a whole cosmological side to it that often gets lost in translation to the west, and requires a lot more devotion and committment than what a lot of westernized religious people are used to.
+--- 14919763
+>>14919756
+
+ So far the Hindus have no answer to this ''problem of evil''. The Hindus keep replying with their main thesis, ie ''because people do not know their true nature, which is pure primordial mind and cannot be described'' and that's their pathetic cope...
+ 
+ in Buddhism, there is no non-duality, people do not have a true nature, people are not the cosmos, people are not Brahma, people do not come from Brahma, people are not nibanna, people do not come from nibanna, people are not Buddha, people do not come from a buddha, people are not their mind, people are not loka, people are not born already enlightened. In Buddhism there is only craving for pretty things and the pretty ideas of having ''a true nature'', and there is the opposite: a lack of craving for pretty things and pretty ideas. People get enlightened when they stop craving for those. The way to get enlightened is to purify the mind, however not with useless incantations and rituals nor with magical objects, nor worship, unlike the Hindus do, but with the mind itself, ie all the time inclining [with the mind] the mind towards what the buddha calls good qualities and then directly knowing the mind as it really is, which is anicca, dukkha, anatta [contrary to what the hindus say], which is the condition for dispassion, dispassion which is the condition for liberation, liberation which is the condition for direct knowledge that dukkha is ended.
+--- 14919791
+>>14919690 (OP)
+The ultimate goal of Buddhism is to escape the vicious cycle of rebirth and reach the Nirvana. However, to do so, it's necessary to abandon all desire and all emotions, including love and compassion, which can cause pain.
+--- 14919806
+>>14919758
+> there is an active genocide in Myanmar being aided and perpetuated by Buddhist monks.
+
+Literally jihadi propaganda
+--- 14919838
+Don't practice meditation if you're not an easterner. It will negatively impact your personality and mind. Look at the meditators in the west. All deranged.
+--- 14919862
+>>14919791
+>However, to do so, it's necessary to abandon all desire and all emotions, including love and compassion. 
+Sounds like I'm fucking ready.
+--- 14920456
+>>14919838
+I dont meditate like white women and schizos I just do 10 minutes to clear my head a little and I go through the day less anxious. I doubt I’m doing it in a correct way but who cares
+--- 14920563
+>>14919763
+How do I get enlightened if I want and need food and water to survive?
+--- 14920636
+>>14919838
+>TikTok addled westerner clears his mind for ten minutes
+>AHAHAHAHAHAHA IM GOING INSAAAAAANE
+
+do sharts really?
+--- 14921196
+>>14919690 (OP)
+>cons
+the whole thing is essentially a method of metaphysical suicide. Buddhism is based on the belief that life sucks so much that you should try to kill yourself on a spiritual level to prevent yourself from ever coming back and experiencing it again. at least that's how i see it.
+--- 14921414
+>>14919690 (OP)
+I truly believe that people use Buddhism as something like an API to Christianity. Our entire culture is build around it whether we like it or not, but you seem like more interesting person when you say that you follow teachings of Buddha then teachings of Jesus. Modern people like to hijack Buddhism because they can sense that it is "true" and what I actually mean is that it covers similar problems that are already laid out in our culture. 
+Examples:
+> Life is suffering - this is the main Buddhist message, but it is no accident that in Christianity the main story is about a guy who was killed in the most brutal way possible in spite of that he done nothing but good his entire life. That is a story of anyone's life.
+> Attachment is the main reason of suffering - now, this is a moment when things get interesting. No westerner will follow this message to its limit, because we have to many cool shit to abandon them. I like this example: If you told white woman, who calls herself Buddhist, not to own a dog because she will get to attached to it and when it dies she will suffer (which she want to get rid of due to her "religion"), she will call you crazy because dogs are cute and so on... It the west, I think, we have better idea. In Mt 10, 20 Jesus is basically saying that we should abandon these things that are holding us from becoming who we could be, because in principal what we could be is better then who we are now. 
+
+I can go so on and so on, but I think you get what I am saying - it is easy for people to pick up Buddhism, because you can strip it from its metaphysics like reincarnation and something like 30 hells cause you are basically borrowing it from other cultures that you are not a part of. Modern western buddhist are actually Christians in disguise but they refuse to admit it.
+--- 14921682
+>>14921414
+>it is easy for people to pick up Buddhism, because you can strip it from its metaphysics
+Buddhism as a philosophy, sure. You could even call it trendy.
+As a religion though? That'd be like calling yourself a Christian despite having never read a single page of the bible. 
+I doubt many western buddhists actively seek to escape samsara.
+--- 14921947
+>>14921196
+Very interesting take.
+--- 14921951
+>>14919690 (OP)
+>skinny
+>Buddha
+hahaha
+--- 14921991
+>>14921951
+The fat laughing monk statues that are frequently seen are not of Siddhartha Gautama.
+They're of Budai who lived about 1500 years after the Buddha.
+--- 14922987
+>>14919806
+Human rights orgs don't say so
+--- 14922997
+>>14919690 (OP)
+http://www.trimondi.de/SDLE/Index.htm
+--- 14923083
+>>14922987
+Human rights orgs are jihadi simps

his/14919947.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,87 @@
+-----
+--- 14919947
+Who were the most chudjak-esque people in history?
+--- 14919957
+btw the "melting pot" is a reference to Jesus/Esau/Edom (aka USA) burning in a pot of boiling excrement. It's a joke meaning.
+--- 14919960
+I don't know but we all know the most Aryan of people in history. Pic related used to decide who was and wasn't subhuman vghhh
+--- 14919962
+>>14919957
+are genes a race yet
+--- 14920080
+>>14919947 (OP)
+--- 14920190
+>>14919947 (OP)
+>Germany Must Perish
+--- 14920275
+>>14919947 (OP)
+The most chudjak-esque person in history is undoubtedly the “madman” Nikola Tesla. He was a misunderstood and under-appreciated genius who was ahead of his time. A real legend!
+--- 14920306
+>>14919947 (OP)
+--- 14920313
+>>14920306
+define man like im a retard
+--- 14920314
+>>14920306
+he doesnt looks like a chudjak
+--- 14920323
+Th former god of the Japanese people
+--- 14920333
+>>14920306
+https://incels.wiki/w/Arthur_Schopenhauer
+>Schopenhauer was not an incel. He had various love affairs throughout his life, not rarely with women much younger than him. He never married because he perceived monogamy as too limiting, so he was more of a Chad style misogynist than an incel misogynist; he was, however, mercilessly rejected by a 17 year old girl when he was 43.
+--- 14920347
+>>14920323
+he got that fresh fade tho, sheesh. No cap.
+--- 14921356
+>>14919960
+Not a chudjak, 
+
+>His forehead is too big (full of creativity)
+>head width expands up the face (big intelligence)
+>recessed chin (not actually recessed just big brained)
+>Closely centered eyes, small cluster (serious focus)
+>fat under chin (Amphibious, buoyancy points head upward towards water)
+>glasses (Lost the ability to see a few feet in from of him from disuse (Uses large ears for echolocation)
+--- 14921390
+>>14920333
+> Schopenhauer occasionally had sexual affairs—usually with women of lower social status, such as servants, actresses, and sometimes even paid prostitutes.
+Lol, dude just paid hookers to fuck him.
+--- 14921959
+Lev Bronstein
+--- 14921969
+>>14919947 (OP)
+Young Hitler.
+--- 14921994
+>>14920306
+He looks kino and rizzing fr, doesn't resemble the chudjak/John Oliver phenotype
+--- 14921996
+>>14919960
+Normal
+>>14920323
+Normal
+>>14921959
+Looks like Satan had an autistic half child with a gremlin
+
+>>14920190
+Looks like a literal cannibal 
+
+>>14919947 (OP)
+Unholy shit balls
+--- 14922012
+>>14920306
+what zero pussy does to a man
+--- 14922054
+>>14921969
+right isn't even hitler
+--- 14922201
+>>14922045
+The elusive black chudjak
+--- 14922373
+>>14922012
+But he was a regular whoremonger
+--- 14922428
+>>14920333
+>describing people who lives over a century ago as le heckin' chad mysoginist
+--- 14922461
+is the chudjak just a Jewish caricature? I know it makes /pol/ seethe but I've never liked it, feel like we can do better than "you're ugly and dysgenic"

his/14919963.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,51 @@
+-----
+--- 14919963
+So I was curious to the heights of various political figures and writers and found that the number of political radicals who were 5'10" and above are very few. 
+During the second world war for example, two of the most reasonable leaders, though fiercely nationalistic, were De Gaulle (6'5") and FDR (6'1"), followed by Truman who was 5'9.
+
+Lenin and Stalin were between 5'5" and 5'6" (lmao) as was Hirihito and Churchill.
+
+Marx, Hitler, Mao, and Trotsky were all reportedly 5'9"
+Goebbles and Gramsci were both 5'0" complete manlets
+
+My theory is that people who are shorter than 5'10" or 5'6" depending a nation's height are inherently spiteful.
+So, should be ban the short from politics? Clearly they've proven themselves too dangerous to lead and too muddled in their thought to be trusted
+Moreover what is the historical precedent for the short being so awful at ruling?
+--- 14919990
+Normies / chads go through life with no privation, loneliness, poverty, or mistreatment. They're like the Eloi without a care in the world. They don't feel the need to change anything because the state of affairs suits them nicely. Weirdos, manlets, schizos, incels, etc see the problems in society and have often been genuinely affected by them, which makes them skeptical of normie ideology and engage in more esoteric or eccentric positions. Low social status people have basically nothing to lose. Yes, an middle-class financier or lawyer with three children could possibly go on a public rant about a fringe ideology, but it's career / life ending. A schizo, itinerant, childless, manlet incel such as Hitler could rant and rave all he wanted there was literally nothing to lose.
+--- 14920005
+>>14919963 (OP)
+Cope. Manlets always shape the history
+>>14919990
+This
+--- 14920026
+>>14919963 (OP)
+Height has no correlation with serotonin levels so stfu
+--- 14920038
+>>14920005
+>Manlets always shape the history
+Ahem
+--- 14921934
+Manlets must DIE
+--- 14922371
+>>14921934
+I was never asked to be a 5'10" spic (or given growth hormones before my growth plates fused)
+--- 14922380
+>>14919963 (OP)
+There is no evidence to support the claim that individuals who are shorter than 5'10" or 5'6" (depending on the nation's average height) are inherently spiteful or unfit to lead. Physical height has no correlation with intelligence, leadership ability, or moral character.
+
+The notion of banning individuals from politics based on their physical characteristics, such as height, is discriminatory and goes against the principles of democracy and equality. Political leaders should be chosen based on their qualifications, experience, and policies, rather than their height or any other physical characteristic.
+
+Historically, there have been successful and respected leaders who were shorter in stature, such as Napoleon Bonaparte (5'6"), Julius Caesar (5'7"), and Alexander the Great (5'6"). Height has never been a determining factor in the ability to govern effectively.
+
+It is important to base political judgments and decisions on facts and evidence, rather than stereotypes or discriminatory beliefs.
+--- 14922390
+>>14922380
+why post a chatgpt response here? You know the style is very obvious to detect right?
+--- 14922422
+>>14919963 (OP)
+> two of the most reasonable leaders, though fiercely nationalistic, were De Gaulle 
+LMAO, De Gaulle may not have had a Napoleon Complex, but he was just as French as the king of manlets himself
+--- 14922453
+>>14922390
+Consult ChadGPT if you have any concerns with the previous points mentioned.

his/14920024.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,215 @@
+-----
+--- 14920024
+How come Catholics and Muslims love Mary but Protestants and Jews hate Mary?
+--- 14920035
+>>14920024 (OP)
+Browns love their mother. Whites hate them.
+--- 14920048
+Not bowing before a statue of Mary = hating her. I’m sure Mary would want your focus to be on her son Jesus than of her, it’s really the Catholics that hate Mary
+--- 14920050
+>>14920035
+The Mother and Wife of Jesus Christ; the Blessed Virgin Mary Magdalene, all honour to Her name.
+--- 14920053
+Because j*ws and pr*tties are heretical evil cunts. So are mudslimes but less so than the first two.
+--- 14920067
+>>14920024 (OP)
+https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=Marium
+
+prolly cuz she has her own surah that jesus wrote
+--- 14920070
+>>14920024 (OP)
+--- 14920076
+the Holy Ghost writer
+--- 14920085
+>>14920076
+https://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=Isa
+--- 14920086
+All she had to do was admit she cheated on her husband.
+--- 14920107
+>>14920048
+This. It’s not that they hate her. It’s that they don’t have true faith in Christ. They aren’t confident enough and think they need Mary also to save them.
+--- 14920174
+>>14920086
+>Hurr Durr the entire religion is founded on a woman cheating on her husband
+
+The Virgin birth narrative wouldn’t even have been known until after Jesus’ ministry.
+--- 14920181
+>>14920174
+>narrative wouldn’t even have been known until after Jesus’ ministry.
+Same with his resurrection
+--- 14920545
+No we dont hate Mary, we just dont deify her like Catholics do and we think Jesus deserve 110% of our worship/attention.
+--- 14920657
+>>14920048
+Why not both? it's obvious that Christ is the most exalted one and Mary is the one who gave birth to him, "Mother of God".
+The only time I hear Protestants mention Mary is to say how she had all these kids after Jesus to own the Catholics
+--- 14920660
+>>14920024 (OP)
+>not praying to Mary means Prots hate her
+I become more anti-Catholic every day on this board.
+--- 14920746
+>>14920660
+>being driven further and further away from the holy spirit
+anon, I...
+--- 14921032
+>>14920660
+going Judeo-Muslim bro?
+--- 14921075
+>>14920048
+You are the typical protestant filth, ignorant and forever worthless.
+--- 14921083
+>>14920035
+/thread
+--- 14921120
+>>14921075
+keep praying to your queen of heaven to deliver you, I'll stick with God the father, Lord Jesus Chirst, and the Holy Spirit that guides us thank you.
+--- 14921223
+>>14920024 (OP)
+
+
+CATHOLICS ARE THE TRUE & ONLY CHRISTIANS; ISLAMISTS ARE HERETICS WITH GOOD INTENTIONS; «PROTESTANTS» ARE HERETICS WITH BAD INTENTIONS; JUDAISTS ARE EVIL.
+--- 14921241
+>>14921223
+What about Orthodox?
+--- 14921329
+>>14921241
+who the fuck cares
+--- 14921484
+>>14921241
+
+
+HETERODOX SCHISMATICS ARE EMANCIPATED & FRACTIOUS CATHOLICS.
+--- 14921530
+>>14921223
+Schizofrenia?
+--- 14921764
+Protestants are too stupid, or too stubbornly heretic to understand pic related
+--- 14921783
+>>14920024 (OP)
+>>14920050
+I'd fuck her.
+--- 14921863
+Judeo-protestants are not Christian.
+--- 14922948
+>>14920657
+I don't think that is a fair characterization. Mary gives us a wonderful lesson in faith and obedience to God. She plays a key role in the most important moment in history, and does it in an exemplary way.
+--- 14922965
+>>14922948
+>Mary gives us a wonderful lesson in faith
+She just spread her legs bub
+--- 14922974
+>>14921783
+in Sunnism, Muhammad is fucking her right now
+Maryam is first of his houris in al-janna
+--- 14922984
+>>14920024 (OP)
+Protestants come from Anglo-Northern European backgrounds, which is all about despising your parents.
+
+They can't relate to marry because they don't know why a mother should be honored/venerated.
+--- 14923025
+>>14920107
+>This. It’s not that they hate her. It’s that they don’t have true faith in Christ.
+The fact that Orthodox and Catholics titled Mary the Theotokos - the Mother of God - and held firm to that for millenia shows their faith. It's not a title about Mary so much as a title about Christ: That he is God. Protestants have been divided on Christ's nature here, or are not willing to think through all the implications. Mentally, they still think of Buddy Jesus.
+--- 14923037
+>>14922965
+I'm certain you can back up your scholarship with even a single verse from any of the religions being talked about to bolster your point.
+--- 14923041
+>>14921223
+>ISLAMISTS ARE HERETICS WITH GOOD INTENTIONS
+They're apostates, ruled by the demonic, and not even good enough to be heretics.
+--- 14923045
+>>14920024 (OP)
+were there a single christian alive that had actually read the book, i'm not sure we'd have this problem.
+--- 14923063
+>>14923045
+It's not about "reading a book" to begin with. But a living Church that has handed down her story since it began. You, otoh, are nobody, and you're reading THEIR book. It's like some goofball neighbor just walking into somebody's house and proclaiming themselves an authority on that person's family.
+--- 14923109
+>When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.-John 19:26-27
+This is a good example of how the Protestant mindset works: They write this episode off as Jesus suffering in pain on the cross, and merely "taking care of practical affairs" when handing his mother's care to the Apostle John. That's all they glean from this. If they can turn the holy and symbolic into something mundane, they always will. But the historical churches have always known that Mary's new role was the Mother of the Church that day. Not merely something John alone had to take care of.
+--- 14923130
+>>14923041
+
+
+APOSTASY ENTAILS COGNIZANT VOLITION; ISLAMISM, AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW, IS A CHRISTIAN SECT; ISLAMISTS IGNORE THAT THEIR CULT ORIGINATED FROM SATANISTIC DECEPTION, THEREFORE, ISLAMISTS CANNOT BE JUSTLY REGARDED AS APOSTATES: THEY ARE IGNORANT & CONFUSED.
+--- 14923143
+>>14923130
+Mr ࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ please elaborate or send me resources where I can learn more about islam being a Christian sect.
+--- 14923158
+>>14921764
+Is this dulia or latria?
+--- 14923159
+>>14923063
+>It's not about "reading a book" to begin with.
+>Just wing it
+>I'm sure jesus won't mind
+
+>You, otoh, are nobody, and you're reading THEIR book.
+>I'm very upset right now that you called me out for not reading about my religion.
+>Besides, there might be something in there that tells me I have to change something about myself
+
+>It's like some goofball neighbor just walking into somebody's house and proclaiming themselves an authority on that person's family.
+>Also, christians NEVER do anything like this.
+--- 14923179
+>>14923159
+>>It's not about "reading a book" to begin with.
+>>Just wing it
+>>I'm sure jesus won't mind
+I didn't say wing it. There's always been catechetical instruction, and blessed leaders to guide the church. They had a treasure of scripture, tradition, and experience alike. You assume literacy is some default state of mankind or the historical church. It never was, and making "reading" the key to truth in the Church is misguided. Christ blessed his followers with the Holy Spirit "who would guide them into all truth", and the Apostles in turn, passed their mantle through the laying on of hands. Truth is found in this apostolic succession. 
+Even all the main tenets that Protestants still hold on to (the Trinity) are things handed them chiefly through the Church and her councils. People on their own don't come to conclusion of the Trinity right away. In fact, Protestants on their own start going full tranny, as if we keep seeing.
+--- 14923189
+>>14923143
+
+
+IT IS A MATTER OF FACT; MUHAMMAD BELIEVED THAT CATHOLICISM WAS A PERVERSION OF CHRISTIANITY, AND STARTED HIS MOVEMENT AS A BELLICOSE WAY TO REFORM THE CHURCH; THEY USED TO REFER TO US, CHRISTIANS, AS «POLYTHEISTS», DUE TO OUR ADORATION OF THE HOLY TRINITY.
+
+SEARCHENGINE IT, OR SOMETHING.
+--- 14923193
+>>14923158
+
+
+IT IS IDOLATRIA.
+--- 14923205
+>>14923179
+The Bible explicitly warns against following the traditions of man over the Word of God over and over again
+--- 14923295
+>>14923158
+Hyperdulia
+--- 14923306
+>>14923295
+>idolatry from other religions is okay because we are idolaters too
+--- 14923365
+>>14923205
+The word of Apostles and their laying on hands for successors, blessed by the Holy Spirit, with Jesus' own allowance to bind and loose, are not the traditions of men or any way equivalent to Pharisees. And there is much the Apostles taught that weren't written down. That's how real people behave, after all. We don't just write to each other. Your friends and family don't just know who you are through letters and emails. You speak and grow up and do things together. This is just common sense. Writing and reading is not the center of life. Actual living in all it's aspects is. And this is what the Church remembers and passes down. St. Paul himself attests to traditions not written down:
+>Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.-2 Thessalonians 2:15
+And on that note, here's an example of how duplicitous some Protestant scholars will be. The same verse in the NIV says:
+>So then, brothers and sisters, stand firm and hold fast to the ***teachings*** we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
+The same Greek word there (παραδόσεις - paradoseis) is the same word that the NIV elsewhere translates as "traditions" when it's negative and referring to Pharisees.
+>You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.-Mark 7:8 NIV
+
+The same word there is paradoseis, but now it's suddenly not the more benign "teachings", but "traditions". Purposely there to weasel around and psychologically mess with the reader and trick them into thinking only "traditions" is bad. But there are good and bad traditions.
+--- 14923608
+>>14920024 (OP)
+
+Protestant don't hate her, they simply think she must not be venerated.
+
+Jews hate her because they think she gave rise to a false religion
+
+Muslims love her because according to a sura she was blessed by Allah
+
+Catholics and Orthodox love them because they think her status as Theotokos make her a special saint and praying her for intercession can give many special grace.
+
+I attend a Catholic Church and I venerate Mary, but I admit many Catholics worship her, albeit unintentionally, and many people have this strange vision of her as a "female goddess of virginity" which is completely wrong.
+
+Also, many representations of Mary are 100% super creepy, they make her look like a creepy sad chastised barbie and it makes me uncomfortable. 
+
+Picrel is an actually good Mary Painting.
+--- 14923621
+>>14923365
+There is no such thing as ‘apostolic succession’ in the Bible - this is purely something concocted by Rome to edify their own self importance.
+There is no need for apostolic succession in all of Christ’s teachings - He and He alone is head of the church, the body of Christ.
+
+The church of Rome for all its pomp and ceremony is nothing more than a sepulchre of lies and deceit.
+--- 14923622
+>>14923608
+Thank you
+I would clarify we're happy to venerate her like Bede, but not as a catholic calls Marian devotions veneration

his/14920261.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,90 @@
+-----
+--- 14920261
+What is a Christian supposed to do when they no longer want to live?
+--- 14920266
+>>14920261 (OP)
+be a monk, sacrifice your life to God.
+--- 14920278
+>>14920261 (OP)
+read better philosophy nigga, you thought you needed stories about Uzzah guiding oxen for guidance
+--- 14920286
+>>14920261 (OP)
+Drown yourself in holy water
+--- 14920317
+>>14920261 (OP)
+Keep living. More specifically, from a practical perspective, one should identify why they don’t want to live. For instance, if you are in bad shape, try getting healthier. If you are without work, try to find work. If you can, I encourage talking with friends, family, maybe a therapist. I wish you good fortune, my friend.
+--- 14920332
+>>14920317
+>More specifically, from a practical perspective
+The main reason is that I have hyper specific and odd mental problems I don't know any therapists can fix. I have health problems too that I plan on having taken care of this year and should be pretty straightforward, but the root of the issue is something only God can fix. And I do pray about it.
+--- 14920342
+>>14920286
+no meme answers
+--- 14920388
+>>14920261 (OP)
+Identify as dead.
+--- 14920394
+>>14920332
+Welp, I hope your mental and physical problems go away someday. They might not though, so like…get used to that possibility. Suffering is inevitable, though disappointment isn’t as inevitable.
+--- 14920402
+>>14920394
+>They might not though
+I am aware of this.
+--- 14920404
+Wait for death
+--- 14920421
+Say you’re an Atheist, expose a Christian teacher who illegally promotes abstinence only in public schools and let the Christian first worlders who never commit any crime because they’re Christian take care of you.
+--- 14920473
+>>14920402
+I don’t know if this will work for you, but when I’m in pain, physical or mental, I remind myself that I’ve gone through similar or worse pain before and made it through, and this knowledge gives me hope.
+--- 14920495
+>>14920261 (OP)
+Live a life of adventure uncaring if the next day brings death.
+--- 14920520
+He died for this.
+--- 14920568
+>>14920332
+>The main reason is that I have hyper specific and odd mental problems
+Stop using 4chan.
+--- 14921037
+>>14920568
+This is ubironically good advice. NTA, but since I started using 4chan, I keep getting intrusive thoughts and an urge to shout “tranny”, “nigger”, “faggot”, and “kike”. I don’t even dislike these groups.
+--- 14921042
+>>14920261 (OP)
+Do a flip faggot.
+--- 14921110
+>>14920332
+Have you been evaluated for exorcism yet?
+--- 14921131
+>>14920261 (OP)
+pray and fast, give your life over to God
+--- 14921138
+>>14920261 (OP)
+get a wife so you can life for other
+--- 14922042
+>>14920473
+>but when I’m in pain, physical or mental, I remind myself that I’ve gone through similar or worse pain before and made it through
+
+That is good advice. I've been through much worse physical pain before than I am in now, and bad times don't last forever even if they seem like they will
+--- 14922704
+>>14920261 (OP)
+Repent of your selfishness and live for God
+--- 14922815
+I literally just don’t understand why anyone would want to kill themselves. I fear death. I wish I was immortal. Even if my life went to shit in every way imaginable, I’d even rather go be a hobo than put a bullet through my head
+--- 14922858
+Kill themselves.
+--- 14922863
+Try reaching out to your social support whether online or offline.
+
+Friends, family and professionals.
+If you think you need medicine I suggest trying some out with a doctor and see what works best for you.
+
+Be sure to prioritize a healthy life routine over surfing the web, consuming media and gaming. There's a healthy balance and you can fit digital activities in.
+
+If the body is healthy the mind will follow and vice versa. I wish you the best of luck anon and God Bless.
+--- 14923050
+>>14920261 (OP)
+He who enduresvto the end shall be saved. God is not willing that any man should perish. And God will not let any man go through a trial that the man cannot overcome. Trust in this.
+--- 14923636
+>>14922038
+Those who dont endure the trial will not receive the crown of life. Which means they will be tortured in fire forever. GG no RE

his/14920464.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,109 @@
+-----
+--- 14920464
+What race is this
+--- 14920469
+>>14920464 (OP)
+Churka
+--- 14920475
+La creatura britonica
+--- 14920480
+>>14920464 (OP)
+Argentino
+--- 14920485
+>>14920464 (OP)
+Caucasian
+--- 14920486
+>>14920464 (OP)
+Woopa Doop Boingo Woingo
+--- 14920489
+>>14920464 (OP)
+It's Anglo New Zealand player Sam Whitelock and the average /his/pol user is too dumb to use reverse image google search these days.
+--- 14920493
+>Birth Name: Samuel Lawrence Whitelock
+
+>Place of Birth: Palmerston North, New Zealand
+>Date of Birth: 12 October, 1988
+
+>Ethnicity: English, Scottish, some Danish, Northern Irish, German, distant Cornish, likely Norwegian
+--- 14920506
+>>14920464 (OP)
+French, Briton, or South German. Everyone in Quebec or Ohio looks like that. High EEF possibly more CHG in the case of Britons. 
+I can tell you he is from Western Europe where, definitely not from Spain, Italy, Celtic nations, or Holland/North Germany.
+
+>>14920469
+He looks nothing like a central asian
+--- 14920512
+>>14920493
+Definitely more Briton than anything.
+--- 14920586
+>>14920506
+Churka is sometimes used for caucasians. He definitely looks like such
+--- 14920605
+>>14920493
+>Narrow palate
+Bong genes strike again.
+--- 14920630
+>>14920464 (OP)
+I knew a German dude who looks uncannily like this. 
+But his surname was possibly Askenazic.
+--- 14921157
+Chud
+--- 14921178
+>>14920464 (OP)
+4chanian
+--- 14921185
+>>14920506
+retard
+--- 14921197
+>>14920464 (OP)
+Churka
+--- 14921287
+>>14920464 (OP)
+It's the bronze age steppe rapist phenotype, extremely rare in Europeans, but occasionally pops up
+--- 14921327
+>>14921287
+Nah. those looked like finns
+--- 14921337
+>>14920605
+You can see the whole regression and deformation it caused by looking at him and his brothers
+--- 14921372
+>>14921327
+Nope Finns have east asian ancestry and lack steppe CHG
+--- 14921396
+>>14921372
+EHG=finnish. Also these phenotype is triggered by subsaharan african related components in ANF/natufians. The narrow palate is 100% a natufianoid/farmgroid atavism. Same with flat cheekbones
+--- 14921455
+>>14920464 (OP)
+whites. it's just the hair, replace them with more popular hairstyle and he'll look like your average whites.
+--- 14921460
+>>14921337
+Las orcos de las bretanias caledoneas
+--- 14921473
+>>14921460
+His brothers look more normal, they look nearly identical. He obviously has some sort of dental issue. Something in the palates deforming his mouth
+--- 14921536
+>>14920464 (OP)
+>>14921337
+>>14921473
+>high HGH manly beasts of men are... le bad
+--- 14921659
+>>14921396
+Steppe does not resemble east asian finnish EHG creaturas
+--- 14922809
+Khach
+--- 14922818
+Anglo, Looks almost the same as his brother facially. He is just black haired and has a narrow palate
+--- 14922819
+if that guy was spanish everyone would post him to emphasize how spaniards are swarthy
+--- 14922825
+>>14922819
+Spaniard-swarthy looks like a somali/nafri, not like op
+This guy would be mild colored in spain. Who are darker than him in average
+--- 14922834
+>>14922825
+OP could be a basque or one of those cavemen mountain people who live in spain
+--- 14922855
+>>14922834
+Dude i have been in the basque country besides other parts of spain. All this larp they look special is hilarious. They look the same as any other saudi, many of them look like pajeets and many clearly african influenced.
+
+There is nothing white or white-peripheral in that somalian peninsula

his/14920564.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,568 @@
+-----
+--- 14920564
+Why weren’t sub Saharan Africans capable of civilisation? Pretty much nothing remarkable here: no poetic epics, no written language, no great works of architecture (no mud huts don’t count sorry) etc etc
+--- 14920576
+>>14920564 (OP)
+low iq
+--- 14920581
+>>14920564 (OP)
+The official normie narrative is 
+>poor soil
+>lack of navigable waterways
+>lack of domesticable animals
+>isolation from Eurasia via Sahara desert
+Take that as you will
+--- 14920592
+Since the dawn of history the Negro has owned the Continent of Africa—rich beyond the dream of poet’s fancy, crunching acres of diamonds beneath his bare black feet. Yet he never picked one up from the dust until a white man showed to him its glittering light. His land swarmed with powerful and docile animals, yet he never dreamed a harness, cart, or sled. A hunter by necessity, he never made an axe, spear, or arrow-head worth preserving beyond the moment of its use. He lived as an ox, content to graze for an hour. In a land of stone and timber he never sawed a foot of lumber, carved a block, or built a house save of broken sticks and mud. With league on league of ocean strand and miles of inland seas, for four thousand years he watched their surface ripple under the wind, heard the thunder of the surf on his beach, the howl of the storm over his head, gazed on the dim blue horizon calling him to worlds that lie beyond, and yet he never dreamed a sail! He lives as his fathers lived—stole his food, worked his wife, sold his children, ate his brother, content to drink, sing, dance, and sport as the ape!
+--- 14920593
+>>14920581
+the other normie narrative is that Africa has 1 gorrlion dollars of resources that made the west rich thru colonialism. 
+
+somehow Africa is poor and rich at the same time depending what argument you make for nigger backwardness!
+--- 14920597
+>>14920564 (OP)
+They developed different civilisations. The idea that they have to produce something “great” to be considered a civilisation is the most ignorant, imperialist idea I have heard. They have different languages and different kinds of architecture. The only fact here is that you have a prejudice against “non-great” cultures.
+--- 14920604
+>>14920576
+yeah that about sums it up. VERY low IQ (OP should google IQ by country)
+--- 14920608
+>>14920597
+yes i am prejudiced against non great cultures. why? because they are not great.
+--- 14920609
+>>14920597
+Why should people not have a prejudice against low civilizations and low cultures
+--- 14920629
+Is South Sudan not subsaharan anymore?
+--- 14920634
+>>14920564 (OP)
+Only Southern Africa was uncivilized
+--- 14920642
+>>14920597
+Its the fact they dont do anything grand in their realm so like great african empire just a bunch of kingdoms. You also cannot find monoliths littered in the wilderness either indicating they have done nada.
+--- 14920645
+>>14920564 (OP)
+>same bait thread that has been answered countless times
+--- 14920646
+They didn't build something that has lasting consequences to this day like the Roman Empire but they also weren't the completely backwards people who didn't even know about the sky under wich they lived like /pol/ trannies pretend they were.
+--- 14920658
+>>14920564 (OP)
+what is West Africa
+>inb4 it doesnt count because mudhuts
+civilisation means having better life conditions and organised society than the surroundings, west Africa was doing well than its surrounds.
+--- 14920661
+>>14920645
+Africa is a continent you imbecile
+--- 14920666
+>>14920658
+Mud huts are not a civilisation. Cope.
+--- 14920667
+>>14920661
+No shit?
+--- 14920668
+>>14920658
+The map is basically empty how pathetic. Im certain injuns would made great things had their places been swapped with blacks.
+--- 14920671
+>>14920667
+>He thinks a pic to generalize a continents history isnt laughable
+--- 14920672
+>>14920666
+civilisation is doing good as a society, west africa was doing well
+>>14920668
+>if another people lived in the tropical shithole of a continent,they would-
+no
+--- 14920676
+People don't seem to know that the Sub-Saharan Africans are a people who garded their independence from any foreign power until well into the 19th Century and beginnings of the 20th Century. Most of Africa was unexplored by Europe until the 19th Century. Be it that they didn't have as much technology as Asia and Europe, but this condition alone speaks in favor of the Africans.
+--- 14920678
+>>14920671
+I wasn't trying to generalize anything idiot. It was just an example of something from SSA
+--- 14920679
+>>14920564 (OP)
+>no poetic epics, no written language, no great works of architecture
+Ethiopia
+>THAT DOESN'T COUNT
+Shouldn't have used a map that included Ethiopia then
+--- 14920680
+>>14920671
+OP did that
+--- 14920682
+>>14920672
+>shithole
+To us who didnt evolve there but its home to african blacks
+--- 14920687
+>>14920676
+>unexplored
+No impossible Africa is the human homeland it should be the most explored landmass on the planet
+--- 14920702
+>>14920679
+Ethiopia isnt enough
+--- 14920703
+>>14920687
+Yeah but while you were paying taxes to authoritarian regimes the Africans were living in complete freedom from foreign powers. European colonization was brief and didn't last more than 120 years were it held the longest, the Africans have already gained back the freedom they have had since the beginning of times.
+--- 14920707
+>>14920702
+Greece isnt enough
+--- 14920708
+>>14920702
+>Says no
+>Indicating not any
+>Except there is a clear example
+Ethiopia is enough
+--- 14920711
+>>14920564 (OP)
+Because your definition of society excludes civilizations in Africa and is not based in reality. Did not bump let this low effort thread die already
+--- 14920728
+>>14920708
+The East Sahara has a good enough historical record but it does not make enough for the entire continent
+--- 14920733
+>>14920658
+
+African civilizations are a meme.
+Their "Empires" and "kings" just mean larger number of mudhuts and slightly larger cowshit castles
+
+pic related is a representation of a king that could have been king of any of those colored areas on the map during any time from 1000BC til like the 1870s
+--- 14920742
+>>14920658
+It is hard to understand how areas with better farming regions than Egypt somehow remained wilderness. The South of Africa has the best climate on the entire continent yet is the most ass backwards region at the same time.
+--- 14920750
+>>14920728
+That's just moving the goalposts then, the argument was that SSA had none and yet it did.
+--- 14920761
+>>14920564 (OP)
+Unironically socio-economic factors. I agree with Guns, Germs and Steel
+>t. rational racist
+--- 14920768
+>>14920668
+Also amazing how the cope keeps evolving
+>"lel no civs in africa"
+>proven wrong
+>"noooo but they didn't fill up the continenterino!!"
+--- 14920775
+>>14920761
+That makes no sense you lot cannot understand how old blacks are, when the common ancestor of us and asians existed in Central Asia there were humans that looked exactly like Sub Saharans roaming across Africa. Blacks have had the longest time to get their shit together they should have been 1000s of years ahead of us in everything since they got a major headstart however we Eurasians evolutionary toddlers in comparison greatly surpassed them.
+--- 14920805
+>>14920593
+>somehow Africa is poor and rich at the same time
+Poor in food and basic resources, rich in gold, diamonds, and oil.
+You can have the best cheese and sauce known to man, but without dough, you can never make a pizza.
+--- 14920818
+>>14920564 (OP)
+>Why weren’t sub Saharan Africans capable of civilisation?
+Why weren't Saharan Africans like berbers/tuaregs?
+Why weren't native americans outside of Mexico and Peru?
+Why weren's eskimos?
+Why weren't siberian people?
+Why weren't abbos?
+Why weren't oceanians?
+Why weren't germanic people until year 1000 (that is, various millennia since the start of civilization)?
+Why weren't italic people until some centuries before Christ (that is, some millennia since the start of civilization)?
+Why weren't japanese until some centuries before Christ (that is, some millennia since the start of civilization)?
+--- 14920839
+>>14920658
+>civilisation means having better life conditions and organised society than the surroundings
+
+Then West Africa fails at that, as North Africa is part of its surrounding
+--- 14920999
+>>14920733
+(You)
+--- 14921011
+>>14920775
+>humans that looked exactly like Sub Saharans roaming across Africa
+Looks=/=same. Bantu are a very young race, they only started expanding during the bronze age. There is a reason civilization first started in the fertile crescent
+--- 14921155
+>>14920645
+>same cope pic posted thousands of times.
+--- 14921194
+>>14920658
+Most of the large states were made by foreigners. Kilwa, Mali, Ghana, etc. All of these were founded by foreign muslim peoples. Ethiopia and Somalians are more genetically similar to Caucasians like Yemenis and Egyptians than other bantu peoples. Bantus themselves have made zero civilisation. They are litterally uncivilised spear chuckers, in every sense of the word.
+--- 14921201
+>>14920818
+Dude it's 2023. We can't wait for ever for African civilization.
+--- 14921233
+>>14920818
+What are you talking about
+--- 14921239
+>>14921194
+Mali?? Made by foreigners?
+--- 14921266
+>>14921239
+Literally, Mansa Munsa's line came from the berber traders in the area. Eventually they "africanized", but if it wasn't for berbers making small states in the sahara it would probably be a bunch of tribes killing eachover for slaves. I'm african. West Africans and Berber peoples are not the same people as 
+bantu niggers at all.
+--- 14921379
+>>14921351
+Wow look at all that middle eastern literature and architecture!
+--- 14921383
+>>14921365
+Europe develped far more in isolation than africa, and africa didn't do anything with the things the arabs gave them.
+--- 14921384
+>>14920818
+Anon, that's the whole point. OP is mocking SSA exactly because they're so late to the civilization game compared to everyone else.
+--- 14921427
+>>14920728
+Don’t move the goal post, retard.
+--- 14921437
+>>14920593
+You can't build a civilization based on diamonds, rubber, and oil.
+--- 14921517
+>>14921266
+>>14921194
+Civilization began in the Middle East and spread to Europe.
+If it wasn't for Middle Eastern people europe would probably be a bunch of tribes killing eachover
+--- 14921571
+>>14921266
+All of Europe except for Crete, most of India, Southeast Asia, most of East Asia beyond the Yellow River valley, and most of the Middle East beyond Iraq and Egypt were introduced to civilization from outside.
+--- 14921580
+>>14921379
+Arabs are the biggest WE WUZers on the planet
+--- 14921582
+>>14920805
+Dominican Republic of the Congo would be a powerhouse with 100 million whites instead of... you know
+--- 14921597
+>>14921517
+Europeans are better than you, admit it
+--- 14921618
+Why do people on this board always make such retarded threads like this?
+--- 14921626
+>>14920564 (OP)
+>nothing remarkable here: no poetic epics, no written language, no great works of architecture (no mud huts don’t count sorry) etc etc
+
+All of this is false
+--- 14921640
+>>14921618
+>Why do people on this board always make such retarded threads like this?
+--- 14921690
+>>14921379
+>>14921383
+
+Lol cope 
+>It wuz da Arabs
+--- 14921693
+>>14921383
+>developed far more in isolation 
+
+Yeah sure they did anon
+--- 14921821
+>>14921266
+>West Africans and Berber peoples are not the same people as bantu niggers at all.
+What the actual fuck are you on about? Who mentioned Bantus? West Africans aren't even Africans now?
+>I'm african
+Im sure you are
+--- 14922095
+>>14921690
+>It wuz da Arabs
+correct
+--- 14922104
+>>14921266
+I don’t think this is true. Mansa Musa however did sell thousands of blacks into slavery (to both berbers and arabs) so he’s an embarrassment in his own way
+--- 14922111
+>>14922095
+What Arabs are in any of those places retard
+--- 14922125
+>>14922111
+>what arab/semetic were in west/central africa and the horn
+>
+--- 14922131
+>>14921690
+Those are stone age structures tho, whats supposed to be impressive about it
+--- 14922134
+>>14920564 (OP)
+They had it made. Why worry about shit like that. Fruit, veggies and big tittied bitches is all those homies needed. Maybe a sharp stick to fight off a lion or hyena. But that's it.
+--- 14922142
+>>14920658
+West africans are e1b1 and therefore partly caucasian
+--- 14922146
+>>14920679
+Ethiopians are half caucasians
+--- 14922156
+>>14922125
+I’m being serious…and no half semite mulattos are not Arab
+--- 14922160
+>>14921690
+Built by Semetic People and arabs try again. Check the sources of your /pol/graph next time
+
+>>14922131
+>Those are stone age structures tho, whats supposed to be impressive about it
+1/10 bait
+--- 14922167
+>>14920597
+I take a Darwinian perspective
+Were their civilisations so great that they could adequately defend themselves from another civilisation?
+--- 14922177
+>>14922104
+>so he’s an embarrassment in his own way
+Why? What's embarrassing about selling criminals and war prisonners to foreigners? He was supposed to care about muh black solidarity 500 years before it was invented by midwits in america?
+--- 14922188
+>>14922160
+>Built by Semetic People and arabs try again
+When did west Africans and sahelians become arab or semetic? Horners are neither either.
+--- 14922200
+>>14922177
+Except they weren’t all criminals? He sold his own people because they were ‘pagans’ to berbers and arabs despite the fact he was ridiculously wealthy and did not need to enter the slavery business for extra wealth. He could’ve afforded to buy out every black he sold but chose not to. It’s not about the slaves being black, it’s the fact that the majority of them came from the same ethnicity as him, tribe whatever you want to call it. Sorry I don’t suck up to some fag who sold his own tribesman to Nafris. It’d be a different story if they were from another tribe/ethnicity, that would be justifiable.
+--- 14922222
+>>14922188
+>Starting in the 9th century AD, Muslim merchants came to play a vital role in the western Sahel region through trans-Saharan trade networks. The earliest mosques discovered in sub-Saharan Africa are at Kumbi Saleh (in present-day southern Mauritania), the former capital of the Ghana Empire (began after the muslim conquest of north africa!)
+
+>At Kumbi Saleh, locals lived in domed-shaped dwellings in the king's section of the city, surrounded by a great enclosure. Traders lived in stone houses in a section which possessed 12 mosques one centered on Friday prayer.
+
+> As Islamization progressed across the region, more variations developed in mosque architecture, including the adoption of traditional local forms not previously associated with Islamic architecture
+
+>What is berbers
+>what is timbuktu
+>what is fucking saheal and the horn?
+--- 14922226
+>>14922222
+Berbers didn’t build anything in that photo though? Unless you’re trying to claim mulattos as berbers as you’re doing with those in the horn?
+--- 14922249
+>>14922226
+>what is Mauritania
+>what is sudan
+--- 14922260
+>>14922160
+I genuinely don't get it, its always piles of rocks that get posted not even inforced with concrete or steel
+--- 14922261
+>>14922249
+Mulatto land…that’s what they are
+--- 14922274
+>>14920761
+Why do blacks have smaller brains?
+--- 14922301
+>>14922261
+Mulkatos are Iberian/west African mixes. Stop mixing up new world terms or applying them to completely different areas. Many "Arabs" in those states are just culturally Arab at best.
+--- 14922312
+>>14922104
+>>14922200
+Mabsa Musa sold of Afrucans from other grouos or rivals but a fuckton remained in his jurisdiction. Why are you assuming that blacks are a monolith? He didn't even exist during the transatlantic trade or the peak of the trans-saharan.
+--- 14922321
+>>14922167
+Great perspective.
+Similiar to the Native Americans, why is it considered "genocide" when one side is weak af but "war" when both sides are competent? Defense is one of the core reasons why civilization emerged; if you fail at that, you fail at civilization.
+--- 14922345
+>>14921582
+It would be a much shittier Australia where whites try to firce other whites to slave on mines and plantations. Colonial DRC was basically a shithole where all it did was export resources with no real industry because the Belgians just came in for the gibs and welfare jobs. A lot of "business" ventures were only "viable" because they had endless serfs that the colony could pimp out to them with rock bottom pay that had wider margins because labour was so absurdly cheap that importing tech to increase efficiency by large degree was not worth it when you could just work your African serfs to death and the state carts a new set in.
+
+In a high % white state you'd have a lot of workers instantly turn commie at the prospect of wage slavery. The State would either have to crack down on unionization+labour rights protest, or concede to them and watch as businesses and plantations pull out to to razor thin margins and havibgvto kiwtiw to state regulations.
+--- 14922354
+>>14921379
+Nigeria where did you think our mathematics came from? Europoors aren't any better.
+--- 14922376
+>>14922345
+One would say "Rhidesua was able to pay white workers in shit jobs high wages". That was the case but Rhidesua had all those Afrucans working bottom wages to be able to fund the whites working jobs like farm labour and the state overpaid white labour as a way to keep them on their side and overpaying white kabour was a way to sidestep franchise laws that used salary and income as one if their metrics. So it's not the case of being colonial states being able to pay whites because they want to but rather bring a matter if "they have to" to ensure compliance and to win people over with gibs.
+--- 14922381
+>>14922354
+It's weird that people fllate Arabs and other MENA people when it's convenient. One minute they are savages. The other they are browner Greek/Roman equivalents.
+--- 14922412
+>>14922381
+Arabs are superior to niggers and both are inferior to whites. It's not a difficult concept.
+--- 14922421
+>>14922412
+No arabs are on par if not better than whites, both superior to niggers.
+--- 14922436
+>>14922412
+>>14922421
+Advanced coping lmao.
+--- 14922439
+>>14922421
+Sandniggers are just one step above poojets in the racial hierarchy, they are beneath whites, east asians and jews
+--- 14922446
+>>14920593
+I can see you don't leave echo chambers. No one claims this is why civilizations didn't ever evolved, because civilizations did evolve there.
+--- 14922448
+>>14922439
+Is this a tier list? Stop playing videogames so much
+--- 14922466
+>>14920658
+>civilisation means having better life conditions and organised society than the surroundings
+That's not what civilization means
+--- 14922474
+>>14920564 (OP)
+It is incorrect to suggest that sub-Saharan Africans were not capable of civilization. The history of Africa is rich and diverse, with a wide range of cultures, languages, and civilizations that have flourished throughout the continent over the millennia.
+
+There have been many impressive achievements in sub-Saharan Africa, including the creation of great works of art, the development of sophisticated systems of agriculture, and the establishment of powerful empires and kingdoms.
+
+One of the most significant challenges that sub-Saharan African societies faced in the past was the lack of a written language, which made it more difficult to preserve their history and cultural achievements. However, this does not mean that they were not capable of civilization, as many of these cultures had rich oral traditions and other methods of transmitting knowledge and information.
+
+It is also worth noting that the concept of "civilization" is a complex and contested one, with different societies and cultures defining it in different ways. Therefore, it is not accurate to suggest that sub-Saharan Africans were incapable of civilization simply because their achievements did not fit within a particular definition or set of criteria.
+--- 14922475
+>>14922156
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Semitic_languages
+--- 14922480
+>>14921618
+Pretty sure its one or two schizos making all of these
+--- 14922487
+>>14922222
+>locals lived in domed-shaped dwellings in the king's section of the city
+--- 14922496
+>>14920805
+Africa isn't particularly rich in oil, at all.
+--- 14922499
+>>14922439
+>poojets
+Indians and Arabs are on par if not greater than whites especially Northern whites. Anglo/Germans have a hedonism problem they need to address.
+--- 14922503
+>>14922487
+Otherwise known as mud huts, while the architects and influence rs lived in stone.
+--- 14922507
+>>14922496
+A lot of areas have made discoveries. More will open up as more geological work is done and FDI increases.
+--- 14922511
+>>14922421
+>No arabs are on par if not better than whites
+Their sole accomplishment is cashing checks from the West because they happen to be born on top of oil. Nigger-rich sand coons can't even design their own buildings. They need to pay Whites to do it. Arabs are a pathetic, feeble, mindbogglingly stupid race of no worth or redeeming value whatsoever.
+--- 14922521
+>>14922503
+>Otherwise known as mud huts
+Depends on the area. Could be Adobe, could have some wood.
+--- 14922552
+>>14922511
+>Their sole accomplishment is cashing checks from the West because they happen to be born on top of oil.
+What is Canada, Norway or Australia? Nothing wrong with resource export
+--- 14922571
+>>14922475
+And yet they remain 50% SSA…
+--- 14922587
+>>14922511
+The foundation of the west includes contributions of middle eastern people and other 'causcoid' races hell Even the Americans honor them on their ceiling in congress. 
+
+Europeans had great respect for them outside of holy war bickering see Saladin.
+--- 14922590
+Africa is unremarkable in most respects save for one important thing: laziness. The biggest problem is that when humans created agriculture it required a fuck ton of human attentiveness and labor involved in it. Crops domesticated in Africa are resistant to drought, disease, neglect, getting trampled by animals, etc. You basically don't have to do anything to them and you'll get food. I would imagine in the future if we want to stop using pesticides and fertilizers crops which do that are required. Not only that but considering oh, like 90% of the human population will live in cities, crops which require less human labor will be necessary so farmers can stop committing suicide.
+--- 14922591
+>>14921383
+Arabs built and civilized Europe , the east med and North African phoenicians taught the Greeks and Romans
+--- 14922623
+>>14922156
+Bro you better tell Omar al-Bashir and the baggara that. They are about to ravage Sudan because they think they are arabs and their enemies are just black. You should go up and tell them that there’s no difference real quick and you may end up saving thousands of lives, minimum.
+--- 14922624
+>>14922591
+Arab doesn't mean semitic. Phoenicians are linguistically the same as ancient Hebrews, not Arabs.
+--- 14922641
+>>14922591
+Phoenicians and every other ancient middle eastern “civilization” is trash that didnt produce anything of note, thats why muslims riped off the greeks and romans
+--- 14922715
+>>14920679
+>Ethiopia
+half-caucasians, don't count
+--- 14922750
+>>14922591
+>Arabs built and civilized Europe
+Yet they can't build shit themselves even when flush with oil money. So much for the myth that throwing money at people will make them smart. Arabs have no human capital, they just splurge on bling like a bunch of niggers.
+--- 14922830
+>>14922750
+Coping hard.
+--- 14922835
+>>14920564 (OP)
+Hey, how come this map excludes South Sudan but includes Mauritania?
+--- 14922840
+>>14920666
+Most Greek and Roman people lived in mud huts/adobe.
+--- 14922841
+This is insanity. We know why. They live in such harsh jungle conditions and were isolated via Sahara desert. 
+As well as the topography and geography being complex making communication and travel difficult.
+
+How can we look at Africa and find positive lessons from its rich past?
+
+As for the future... what does it hold? What are the beat ways foreign nations and these Africa states themselves use their resources and people to better their continent, and furthermore humanity?
+--- 14922845
+>>14922590
+>You basically don't have to do anything to them and you'll get food.
+You still need to put a ton of it into it lol. More in fact since crop yields are lower than the more common ones sold on global markets that are geared toward increased crop output and have the subsidies/tech to back it.
+--- 14922846
+>>14922142
+By this logic no black person is pure blooded. All black people in Africa have traces of Eurasian DNA.
+--- 14922862
+>>14922623
+Because Omar used "Arabness" as a way to consolidate power and garner foreign support from nearby Arab states. Many Sudanese don't give really give a shit about "muh pan-Arab ideology over muh Sudanese idenity " like he did, not saying they were free of bias but Omar took it to a whole new level. Mainly because he also targetted non-Arab Muslims very hard alongside other groups
+--- 14922868
+>>14922841
+In the Andes it was just the same, imbecile, but with the difference that they did create great civilizations than in Africa, so the weather difficulty, without horses, etc., etc., is even more insensible for them to have to overcome that geographic challenge
+--- 14922876
+>>14922474
+pure word but you say nothing
+--- 14922879
+>>14922868
+I am sure there are complex reasons why people in the Andes were able to create such a civilization. It is important to note that while what qualifies as civilization is complex there were also as complex civs in sub Sahara Africa including the zulus, kingdom of Zimbabwe, the kingdom of the Congo, the Malian kingdom and more.
+--- 14922883
+>>14922876
+I am slightly open to changing my mind. Could you go ahead and try?
+--- 14922895
+>>14922868
+>difference that they did create great civilizations than in Africa
+Based on what meme criteria? Do tell us.
+--- 14922898
+>No National Epics
+
+Mali Empire literally had two you fucking dumbass
+
+Little nigga wouldn't walk or wipe up after himself so his mum got her servant boys to get a massive slab of iron from the market. Finally presented with a challenge, the boy picked up a slab that needed 6 men to even carry it there. 
+
+There's more shit he does like killing some motherfucker with a spur-arrow but point is oral history is still history. 
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griot
+--- 14922905
+>>14922879
+>what qualifies as civilization is complex
+Writing, cities, social hierarchy. Blacks didn't have any societies with all of those.
+--- 14922914
+>>14920593
+Britain was always rich in coal, but it didn't really mean much until they had the means to reliably extract massive amounts of it, or use it.
+--- 14922915
+>>14922898
+>Mali Empire
+Berber.
+--- 14922923
+>>14920564 (OP)
+your map includes the horn so you lose automatically on all 3 fronts
+>nooooo hornoids don't count!!
+sorry chud, should have posted a different map
+--- 14922925
+>>14922905
+Certainly wrong. Civilizations in africa do and have had social hirearchies and cities for a very long time. As for writing it greatly varied but for the most part was not present. However these were considerable civilizations nonetheless. I guess my question is what do you seek to obtain by rejecting true information? I think you are clouded by your emotions and biases. I recommend working on a healthy and fulfilling life routine and minimizing screen time. 
+
+i believe in you
+--- 14922930
+>>14922879
+>>14922879
+>>14922895
+>>14922876
+>>14922883
+I am quite sure that you do not know how they are in the Andes of those times than with Africa itself, so I will tell you that it was a shit to be alive in the Andes since the ecological floors fertile enough were scarce and not to mention the fertile lands that They are something else just like on the coast than at least if they were a kingdom to call it that because of the incredible clothing, goldsmiths, boats etc etc etc which was not the same as in the Andes which was still lived as total anarchy after the collapse of the wari empire, a delay in technology was lost how to make the cities of before making them just shacks and small towns themselves, do you even see what you know about the andes and africa whether or not the africans are with their geography And moreover, it is not an excuse that they have been late in being "relevant", what you call "kingdoms" would be more like confederations or large tribes that decided to call themselves a "kingdom" that is not how things work or if want the mexicas became "empire" as such
+--- 14922932
+>>14922925
+>>14922925
+pure word and nothing
+--- 14922937
+>>14922915
+I am afraid you are incorrect.
+The Malian Empire was founded by Sundiata Keita a Mandika man.
+
+The dominant speak were Manding languages.
+
+It started near the niger river, after the decline of the Ghana Empire.
+--- 14922940
+>>14922925
+>Civilizations in africa do and have had social hirearchies and cities for a very long time.
+There were no black cities in Africa before colonization.
+--- 14922946
+>>14922930
+There are no excuses that I see. As far as geographic determinism goes for human civilization, the people in these regions adapted as best as possible and created Civilizations to the greatest extent that was naturally possible. It would be accurate to call these confederation of tribes, but so were many civilizations including the mongol civilization, ancient germanic civilization, macedonian,celtic and many more.
+--- 14922950
+>>14920805
+I cooka da pizza
+--- 14922970
+>>14922940
+>There were no black cities in Africa before colonization.
+What do you call areas with a massive density of people all under one administrative unit? A super town? A suburb?
+--- 14922978
+>ITT someone asks for justification for their prejudices, is presented with evidence refuting them and starts running with a goalpost in each hand so they don't have to think about why they think the way they do about their fellow human beings.
+--- 14922986
+>>14922937
+The Mali "empire" was a bunch of mud huts until Europeans showed up. There was a mosque made out of mud built by berber and arab conquerors from the north.
+--- 14922992
+Obvious shitposter is shitposting
+--- 14922993
+>>14922970
+There were no nigger cities bro. Sorry but it's a fact.
+--- 14923054
+>>14922993
+I encourage keeping a rational and open mindset when learning and discussing history. These were indeed cities that held many advanced occupations and a population of people. The infrastructure and and customs may have not been what are you to seeing in the old world but these were indeed urban centers.
+--- 14923080
+>>14923054
+He's a brown shitposter anon. Stop feeding him attention.

his/14920574.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,84 @@
+-----
+--- 14920574
+The last good president
+--- 14920614
+Eisenhower
+--- 14920623
+>>14920574 (OP)
+Teddy
+--- 14920633
+>>14920574 (OP)
+All of them were bad, but this faggot was the worst
+--- 14920651
+>>14920614
+fpbp
+--- 14920655
+>>14920614
+more schizo garbage. see washingtons last. prompted script doublespeak normalization entropy freefall. words nothing when u cant real language action
+--- 14920715
+>>14920655
+--- 14920723
+>>14920655
+>complains about schizo garbage
+>proceeds to spout schizo garbage
+--- 14920798
+>another mutt thread pretending anyone knows or gives a shit about his juvenile "country"
+--- 14920806
+>>14920574 (OP)
+>>14920614
+>>14920623
+>>14920633
+>>14920651
+>>14920655
+>>14920715
+>>14920723
+r/shitamericans say
+>>14920798
+upvoted!
+--- 14920807
+>>14920798
+>>14920806
+American website.
+--- 14921153
+>>14920574 (OP)
+>putting bait in the subject field.
+i can respect the honesty.
+--- 14921919
+>>14920614
+nope
+--- 14921932
+>>14920574 (OP)
+>make bait thread
+>title it "Bait"
+>people still reply
+--- 14922089
+Was there ever a good one?
+--- 14922124
+>>14920574 (OP)
+He kwabbed the Soviet Union back into the shadow realm and for that he’s based, but everything else he did was cringe
+--- 14922237
+>>14920574 (OP)
+Based rightoid admitting he has no problem with being racially replaced as long as beaners are given legal channels to do so
+--- 14922424
+>>14920798
+--- 14923032
+>>14920574 (OP)
+LBJ or Nixon
+--- 14923042
+>>14920574 (OP)
+Ford
+--- 14923390
+>>14920574 (OP)
+I'm not very familiar with Reagan. Why is he so reviled?
+--- 14923393
+>>14920574 (OP)
+Simon Bolivar.
+--- 14923484
+>>14920574 (OP)
+>The last good president
+I don't see Nixon in your picture.
+--- 14923494
+>>14923390
+Most of the shit america is dealing with now, from immigration problems, to corporate whoring the country off, to terrorism, can be traced to either Bush Sr., or to Reagan.
+Basically, under Reagan conservative line of thought in America went from "preserve tradition and make america strong" to "fill the coffers of bunch of Jews and WASPs and let the rest rot"
+Dementia was a God's punishment to this cunt.

his/14920612.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,54 @@
+-----
+--- 14920612
+Did the Mongolian "Empire" even exist? Did the Mongols actually administrate their land or people? It sounds like they just pillaged and raped them over and over again.
+--- 14920628
+Legend says Vikings drove East with their legendary ships, then sailed all upstream, all until reaching the Baikal lake.
+--- 14920635
+>>14920612 (OP)
+The Mongol Empire was a powerful state that extended from Korea to Mesopotamia. It was administered by the great Khans of the Empire, who were both brilliant military leaders and cunning political rulers. While it is true that the Mongol Empire was founded upon brutal conquest, it was also a highly organized civilization led by a sophisticated legal code and government system. In the end, the Mongol Empire fell due to a variety of factors, most notably the incessant infighting among its rulers and the division of its territory amongst the Khans' successors.
+--- 14921595
+>>14920612 (OP)
+>t. Chatgpt
+--- 14921612
+>>14920612 (OP)
+The vast majority of it was desolate wasteland unsuitable for fuckall apart from a scattered web of cities here and there
+--- 14921721
+>>14921612
+>China
+>Iran
+>Iraq
+>southern Central asia
+>the Tarim bassin
+>all desert 
+Why are people on this board so retarded
+--- 14922404
+>>14921721
+>the Tarim bassin
+desert 
+>southern Central asia
+half of it is desert
+>Iraq
+mongols turned the remaining land into desert
+>Iran
+same as above
+>Tarim Basin
+literally desert with oasis cities
+>China
+half of the population died. Northern China becomes a wasteland for over a century
+--- 14923068
+>>14920612 (OP)
+nomads had good enough relations with their settled subjects post conquest, it's just that when someone else came into the picture they'd burn everything down to rule over the ashes
+
+see the late tang dynasty for instance, the khitans rebel and establish their own kingdom (while the turks raid their lands at that), then the jurchens chimpout, burn everything and settle on top of that, then the mongols come in, etc
+--- 14923079
+>>14920635
+What did they leave the world anyhow? Even dead empires have vast influence to this day, but I'm not quite sure about Mongols. Indians, Chinese, etc.. all seem uniquely their own thing still.
+--- 14923085
+>>14923079
+uh they killed a lot of people. They did the equivalent of flipping over a chess board
+--- 14923131
+>>14921721
+Majority, not all of it you nimrod
+--- 14923144
+>>14923079
+A fuckload of descendants along with direct and indirect influence on all cultural and political developments in every corner of Asia to this day

his/14920621.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,974 @@
+-----
+--- 14920621
+The theory of evolution is just a popular conjecture; it is neither rational nor a true theory.
+--- 14920724
+True. There's many other explanations on how life could have formed on earth, but the atheists need the theory of evolution as a replacement for religious belief.
+--- 14920731
+You can literally watch evolution real time in microcellular organisms. The food you eat is a process of evolution through gene selection in plants. Million of years is a very long time and evolution is actually pretty fast. Bottlenecks, which are very common in nature, also significantly alter the course of evolution by drastically enchanting the likelihood of certain mutations.
+--- 14920752
+>>14920724
+>how life could have formed on earth
+Not evolution, that’s abiogenesis. Different concepts even though creationists don’t know the difference.
+--- 14920778
+>>14920621 (OP)
+Meanwhile, creationism is the bronze age conjecture of desert semites masquerading as revelatory truth.
+--- 14920786
+>>14920621 (OP)
+Turns out complexity yields adaptability and continued structural integrity
+--- 14920800
+>>14920621 (OP)
+I'm pretty sure intelligent design is supposed to aim for simplicity, not wisdom teeth and pleasure spots in male anuses.
+--- 14920803
+>>14920752
+Yes I know the difference you idiot, but for how the species developped
+--- 14920822
+>>14920803
+You said how life formed, evolution is well established. This is just a C student board.
+--- 14920833
+>>14920822
+No evolution is not well established at all and severely flawed
+Empiricism shows that most new varieties form through the merging of different varieties into each other, but evolutionists somehow think this backwards
+It also doesn't explain how evolution takes millions of years, when climates sometimes change in a question of a few thousand years
+--- 14920841
+>>14920833
+It's not flawed. It's a fact. DNA proved it without a doubt. The theory of evolution tries to explain why and how evolution happens, but evolution itself is a fact.
+--- 14920852
+>>14920841
+No it's not you idiot. See, you're just using it as a replacement for religion, and instead of refuting my argument you press on it like nothing is going to take you away from your dogmatic belief.
+--- 14920862
+>>14920621 (OP)
+This is true, while we need not appeal to fairystories to list an origin of life, we also should not make a fairystory out of a progressive for its time but still highly underdeveloped bit of 19th century mysticism.
+--- 14920867
+>>14920822
+>well established
+it has no workable mechanism of action, it appeals to fucking stochastic randomness lmfao.
+its less understood than quantum mechanics.
+--- 14920872
+>>14920621 (OP)
+You are massively retarded.
+--- 14920892
+>>14920852
+>you're just using it as a replacement for religion
+retard christcuck.
+--- 14920916
+>>14920621 (OP)
+Absolute state. We seriously need a /religion/ containment board.
+--- 14920969
+>>14920731
+Religious people doesn't deny micro evolution, what we deny is fish growing wings(for absolutely no reason) and become a bird.
+--- 14920990
+>>14920969
+The state of American education.
+--- 14921008
+>>14920969
+If fish didnt evolve into birds, then where did birds come from?
+--- 14921078
+>>14920867
+>it has no workable mechanism of action
+Selection of mutations based on pressures affecting survival and reproduction. 
+You are a fool man, seriously.
+--- 14921087
+>>14921008
+Dinosaurs>lizards>salamanders>fish
+--- 14921092
+>>14920969
+>what we deny is fish growing wings(for absolutely no reason) and become a bird.
+No one is proposing this. You’re missing several intermediary steps between a fish and a bird. 
+
+It’s hugely telling that people like you never spaz like retards about lizards originating from salamanders, it’s always two completely different animals that your intuition can’t handle
+--- 14921095
+>>14920990
+Creationists have a whole propaganda arm aimed at ensuring their kids don't understand evolution, complete with scientific sounding nonsense like "workable mechanism of action".
+--- 14921099
+>>14920833
+>Empiricism shows that most new varieties form through the merging of different varieties into each other
+Completely pulled out of your filthy ass
+--- 14921105
+>>14921087
+Dinosaurs aren’t lizards or descended from lizards. They’re reptiles, yes, but lizards are only one section of the reptile family, same as dinosaurs.
+--- 14921111
+>>14921105
+Also, I don’t mean family in the sense of lenean taxonomy, I pretty much just mean it as “clade”.
+--- 14921115
+>>14920724
+This is a good point that is not often brought up. It's easy to imagine a scenario where God exists and evolution is true but impossible to imagine a scenario where atheism is true and evolution is false. Even Dawkins said "Darwin made it possible to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist", there's a clear metaphysical bias here
+--- 14921125
+>>14921008
+Genesis 1:20-23 "And God said, “Let the waters swarm with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the heavens.” So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day."
+--- 14921126
+>>14921115
+Thankfully the most logical spiritual alternative to atheism is not Christianity.
+--- 14921165
+>>14921105
+Ah true my bad
+--- 14921171
+>>14921165
+Eh, it’s an easy mistake to make.
+--- 14921176
+>>14920892
+Dilate
+--- 14921193
+>>14920841
+>DNA proved it without a doubt
+That ain't true, and the funny thing about this is that when DNA was discovered the entire scientific community at the time recognized its discovery as directly falsifying evolutionism as it stood then. Because of their overriding philosophical bias they took evolution absolutely for granted regardless of empirical evidence, and re-interpreted their theories and DNA in light of each other to develop neo-Darwinism.
+--- 14921209
+>>14921193
+> as directly falsifying evolutionism as it stood then.
+In the same way the theory of relativity falsified Newtonian physics maybe.
+--- 14921235
+>>14920841
+>DNA proved it
+explain how
+--- 14921242
+>>14920621 (OP)
+Genetic algorithms are a real thing that has been used in practice.
+--- 14921244
+>>14921193
+DNA is by itself enough proof of evolution, all other pieces of evidence are just supporting details in comparison. It directly shows how different living things are related. 
+If you disagree then you should ignore paternity tests on your kid if you ever have one.
+--- 14921250
+>>14921244
+DNA doesn't change
+--- 14921255
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ItBDepGyfK0 [Embed]
+--- 14921263
+>>14921250
+Go expose yourself to radiation if you believe that.
+--- 14921278
+>>14921244
+>DNA is by itself enough proof of evolution
+I think it's enough proof against evolution, evolutionism presupposes naturalism yet here we have a line of code, and you don't get programs without programmers.
+>If you disagree then you should ignore paternity tests on your kid if you ever have one.
+False dichotomy. We have developed through science a principle that X genetic similarities indicate common ancestry, and perhaps it holds generally, but another scientific principle that only holds generally is that dead men do not live again. The origin of species is miraculous because it is part of the creation week itself, it is completely unsurprising that it would defy our principles.
+--- 14921284
+>it's 2023
+>creationists still use the same stuff from 20 years ago
+
+You people are the main reason why new atheism became a movement in the first place. You two were meant for each other: American evangelical autists counterbalanced by autistic scientism. I'm surprised the universe didn't rip itself apart from so much autism
+--- 14921286
+>>14921250
+Yeah that’s strange terminology. It mutates during meiosis. 
+I mean honestly the process of creating gametes is changing DNA by definition.
+--- 14921290
+>>14921286
+No it doesn't or paternity tests would in fact be useless. DNA does not change by any measure.
+--- 14921314
+>>14921278
+>We have developed through science a principle that X genetic similarities indicate common ancestry, and perhaps it holds generally
+It’s not just similarity, DNA of related organisms share physical copies of DNA. You literally share parts of DNA with your mom, cousin and a chimp in the same way that your skin on your arm shares DNA with your lung tissue.
+--- 14921328
+>>14921314
+Literally meaningless babble
+--- 14921330
+>>14921290
+You inherit genes from your parents and that’s why we can tell they’re your parents. Mutations are taken into account when DNA tests are done. 
+Half comes from your dad and half from your mom. Hope this helps.
+--- 14921334
+>>14921314
+I don't think you know what the word similarity means
+--- 14921336
+>>14921328
+That’s okay anon, you weren’t meant to understand this. I went to college with a guy who could not understand standard deviations or z scores in statistics and had to drop out. We’re not all built for this stuff.
+--- 14921340
+>>14921330
+>Half comes from your dad and half from your mom
+How much of it comes from thin air because new genetic information just appears on its own for no reason?
+--- 14921344
+>>14921334
+Yeah I don’t think you fully grasp that related organisms share physical copies of each others genes
+--- 14921347
+>>14921330
+> when DNA tests are done.
+Half comes from your dad and half from your mom
+OK, where in this process does a change in DNA occur if I get the genes from my parents?
+>>14921336
+I never went to college and I still consider myself intellectually superior to people like you.
+--- 14921348
+>>14921340
+Have you ever heard of a concept called 'time'?
+--- 14921355
+>>14921340
+New genetic information is formed via mutations during meiosis. Next week we’ll be covering why a white squirrel is more likely to get eaten by a predator in a forest than a grey and brown one
+--- 14921362
+>>14921347
+>here in this process does a change in DNA occur if I get the genes from my parents?
+Meiosis
+--- 14921370
+>>14921344
+Here, this might help you
+https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/similarity
+--- 14921374
+>>14921347
+There’s probably no way to say it without you taking it personally but you’re just not intelligent enough for this topic, just like Z scores and std dev was beyond the capacity of that guy in my class. 
+
+It’s okay man, I struggle to understand much of quantum mechanics, you start blowing smoke at evolution
+--- 14921377
+>>14921347
+OK, where in this process does a change in DNA occur if I get the genes from my parents?
+How did you pass high school not knowing this? When DNA is copied small changes accrue due to the process being imperfect. This is why its better to breed with someone not closely related to you, BTW, less chance of bad changes you share with your relatives accruing
+--- 14921382
+Why did God put ERVs in the DNA of animals in such a way as predicted by the theory of evolution?
+God is the greatest deceiver
+--- 14921386
+>>14921382
+Bro he doesn’t even know about meiosis.
+--- 14921391
+>>14921382
+I can tell you why He put HIV in your blood
+--- 14921399
+>>14921391
+Truly losing any sympathy for conservatives and Christians.
+--- 14921406
+>>14921374
+Yeah sure Einstein, sorry that I didn't score as good as you did on the IQ test, too bad that we are not people worthy of being explained how evolution works.
+>>14921377
+Proof? I think incest is dangerous because of incomplete data transferation. I had calculated this in my head at some point, what can result from incest is that not all chromosomal informations get transfered to the child, producing incomplete beings. This has nothing to do with mutation.
+--- 14921407
+>>14921399
+I'm sure you already lost all sympathy when they told you your skirt didn't make you a woman
+--- 14921415
+>>14921406
+>I think incest is dangerous because of incomplete data transferation. I had calculated this in my head at some point
+Lmfao
+--- 14921416
+>>14921391
+>>14921407
+ad hominem
+--- 14921425
+>>14921407
+I’m a straight, male, man and I will laugh if dems put you in camps at this point.
+--- 14921435
+>>14921425
+You'd have to take that thing out of your mouth to laugh.
+--- 14921438
+>>14921406
+>too bad that we are not people worthy of being explained how evolution works.
+I told you, though it’s insane you just didn’t Google this.
+--- 14921443
+>>14921435
+I’m not gay but I am positive your holes will be filled in a prison camp. The indifference to your suffering is entirely brought upon yourself.
+--- 14921446
+>>14921443
+I didn't ask to hear about your gay fantasy, weirdo
+--- 14921451
+>>14921446
+Do you think your mom will even miss you?
+--- 14921457
+Holy shit the people on this board are so stupid
+>We have examples of selective breeding that has occurred during our lifetime
+>We have fossils of animals dating back millions of years ago that converge on the animals that exist today
+>The taxonomic tree derived prior to DNA was largely validated by DNA
+>Our understanding of how DNA is passed on explains how mutations and new species could eventually occur.
+It is a theory, but it is a theory backed up by empirical evidence, a theoretical foundation backed up by chemistry, and provides a model with both predictive and explanatory power.
+--- 14921458
+>>14921451
+I don't think about homosexual sex at all, so I guess that's the difference between us
+--- 14921461
+>>14921457
+>It is a theory
+Evolution is a conjecture about the past
+--- 14921462
+>>14921458
+You imagined me cross dressing as soon as I displayed the ability to pass high school biology.
+--- 14921467
+>>14921462
+Thought I told you to stop projecting your gross perversion onto me
+--- 14921469
+>>14921193
+and do you have anything to actually back up that claim
+--- 14921470
+>>14921467
+third person here, you’re a fucking retard
+--- 14921477
+>>14921467
+
+>>14921391
+>>14921407
+>>14921435
+--- 14921483
+>>14921391
+>>14921407
+Okay. But what about the ERVs, what does theology say about God trying to trick us like this?
+--- 14921485
+>>14921483
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_question
+--- 14921487
+>>14921483
+gawd doesn’t talk about evolution, paul didn’t anticipate that
+--- 14921488
+>>14921457
+>expecting larpers to actually know any of this and not just repeat the same talking points endlessly even when proven wrong
+you're first mistake is assuming they are here for genuine discussion and not shilling
+--- 14921489
+>>14921461
+What is the difference between a theory and a conjecture?
+--- 14921490
+>>14921489
+Theory is testable
+--- 14921493
+>>14921485
+Not him but you have no answer because you dont even have the biology knowledge to grasp what ERVs are and what it indicates
+--- 14921494
+>>14921457
+the cattle don’t like being branded as such. if evolution is true then they will have to face the fact that their kind actually arrests human development and evolution itself. theists who claim dominion over interpretation of natural cause and effect are a cancer that needs to be extirpated from the species
+--- 14921495
+>>14921493
+See >>14921485
+--- 14921497
+>>14921490
+Scientific theories are also confirmed by observation. Though evolution is confirmed and replicated whenever a new breed is created
+--- 14921499
+>>14921494
+Evolution is a false god
+--- 14921508
+>>14921485
+Alright, I'll concede that God may merely be allowing for us to be tricked.
+Even if I personally don't see a distinction between allowing, and causing, for an omnipotent being like God.
+
+What's the theological explanation for this? It seems highly unexpected given the Bible being the true word of God
+--- 14921510
+>>14921495
+He’s naming genetic evidence for evolution and you can’t address it.
+--- 14921514
+>>14921490
+Tested how? 
+Like predicting that certain evidence can be found, given the theory is true, then that evidence is found exactly where the theory predicted?
+--- 14921534
+>>14921508
+The one tricking you is yourself and the reason is sin. What we have here is a manifestation of the noetic effects of sin. 
+>>14921514
+Evolutionism is a historical theory, because its claims are about events in the past. But you can only test the present, you don't know what happened in the past because you weren't there, God was there and He told us what happened.
+--- 14921545
+>>14921534
+If I had a theory of the caldera off the coast being formed by a volcano eruption in the past
+In principle, how could I go about testing that?
+--- 14921566
+>>14921534
+sin doesn’t exist, you are just like hippy white bitches who call on the concept of karma and take joy when people who at one time vested them receive some form of misfortune
+
+you can’t fathom that things have natural causes and natural effects so you have to cope with concepts of divine punishment and reward
+--- 14921573
+>>14921566
+*bested
+--- 14921576
+>>14921490
+*Falsifiable, and thats an overly narrow definition. Popper's work was important, but if you are to take that definition, any explanation of a historical process would be a conjecture. Evolution does not contradict other observations in the corpus of science, has predictive power and explanatory power, and is based on falsifiable principles (hereditary mutation). This is good science by any modern phil. of science standard.
+--- 14921577
+>>14921566
+>sin doesn’t exist
+He said, sinning
+--- 14921579
+>>14921499
+you’re actually retarded
+--- 14921585
+>>14921577
+if i do something that is a “sin” it is only a sin insoasfar as it actually has negative consequences for me in the real world connected by natural causal chain.
+
+your idea of sin as producing divine, non-naturally caused problems for the sinner is retarded
+--- 14921586
+>>14921585
+A sin is a violation of divine law.
+--- 14921588
+>>14921586
+hence why i said it doesn’t exist
+--- 14921593
+is the creationism vs evolution still a thing in the US?
+--- 14921598
+>>14921534
+Say you were hit by a ball and nobody was around to witness it save one. The witness claims a portal opened and the ball came out and hit you. What do you, the induction skeptic and eye-witness absolutist, think happened?
+--- 14921629
+>>14921593
+not really, its mostly only die hard larpers that still try to insist creationism is a thing, but since religion is dying in the US less people take them seriously each day
+--- 14921631
+>>14921629
+and thank god for that, seriously
+--- 14921633
+>>14921593
+I’ve never encountered it in real life but I also live in New England. I hear it’s popular out in the desolate south and Midwest where they are poor and have terrible schooling.
+--- 14921637
+>>14921633
+christ shit has always been a religion for the dispossessed poor masses of uneducated people. to be a christian means you grew up not even within smelling distance of actual culture
+--- 14921639
+>>14921545
+>caldera off the coast being formed by a volcano eruption in the past
+That sounds like it happened more than 6000 years ago, your theory is false
+--- 14921642
+>>14921637
+>to be a christian means you grew up not even within smelling distance of actual culture
+Thank God, if I could smell this I would puke
+--- 14921648
+>>14921642
+you do realize that when you have dominion for 2000 years, you are responsible for what grows out of that. tranny shit and SJW shit is the reductio ad absurdum of christian pity
+--- 14921652
+>>14921648
+>It's whitey's fault I rob the liquor store
+--- 14921653
+>>14921642
+If the theory of atheism is true, should we expect to see such things as your picture?
+--- 14921654
+>>14921642
+>larper trying to attach the downfall of whites to athiesm
+>when the only group that states religious are africans and spics in South America
+>said religion also discourages its followers from treating immigrants poorly
+ah I always love autists trying to use christianity for their racial larp, and then slowly realizing its a contradictory position
+--- 14921656
+>>14921642
+Wild that this is occurring in a majority christian country, and not in one of the predominately atheist countries.
+--- 14921657
+>>14921654
+>>when the only group that states religious are africans and spics in South America
+Which are not the degenerate self-exterminating godless whites, really makes you think
+--- 14921663
+>>14921652
+Presumably whitey wouldn't have chosen to create a liquor store he knew with 100% certainty would be robbed, unless his goal was for that to happen. Whitey has the power to obtain his goals without failure.
+Whitey is perfect and self-sufficient, whitey doesn't need to create a liquor store
+--- 14921667
+>>14921652
+no moreso when you spend 2000 years promoting an ideology of pity, don’t be surprised when the secularization of said ideology leads to tranny pity
+--- 14921669
+>>14921657
+>South America and Africa
+>not also filled with degens
+lets not even get into their giga shithole status
+--- 14921680
+>>14920621 (OP)
+It doesn't really make sense when you break it down. How do wings develop? Or even just the flying squirrel. Wings or even flaps of flesh that would allow an animal to glide, would have to start with useless stubs that don't do anything that were accidentally mutated. Why would that become an attractive trait that progresses forward and develops into something useful? Why would useless nubs of flesh put specimens ahead in the scale of survival of the fittest?
+
+It doesn't make any sense. A fleshy uselessness in my armpit would not make women find me attractive. I would be a genetic freak. The only way wings or gliding mechanisms could have evolved, would be spontaneous. But that's not what their theory is.
+--- 14921685
+>>14921680
+filtered by poor imagination combined with lack of reading relevant material
+--- 14921687
+>>14921669
+I would much rather have a God-fearing woman from the jungles of the amazon or out of blackest Africa than a secular white woman of modernity.
+--- 14921692
+>>14921687
+weak people need other weak people, you’re only disgusted by the secular mirror of your own ideology. christian pity is no different than sjw pity.
+--- 14921710
+>>14921685
+I accept your concession. Yoo've offered nothing of substance in response.
+--- 14921725
+>>14921680
+There is a misconception that evolution happens at a constant rate very slowly over a very long period of time. This if demonstrably false though, just look at how some humans are born with webbed hands. This doesn't entail that any mutation will go on to start a new species, that is dependent on luck and is the reason why evolution occurs over a long period of time. Scientists believe that winged animals developed from gliding animals and this is supported by the fossil record, why is this so difficult to accept?
+--- 14921729
+>>14921710
+i don’t want you to become smarter, you are already within a slave ideology, makes it easier for me
+--- 14921734
+>i don’t want you to become smarter, you are already within a slave ideology, makes it easier for me
+--- 14921740
+>>14921734
+shouldn’t you be prostrating yourself or something
+--- 14921742
+>>14921729
+serious cringe
+--- 14921744
+>>14921725
+Right but I already talked about gliding animals. Are you suggesting that gliding animals instantaneously were birthed one day? The ability to glide just happened one day? Because if it was a process at all that involved one other step where they couldn't glide, then the theory makes no sense. 
+
+Why would this, glideless, first step be a beneficial trait to pass on? After all, the theory of evolution is fundamentally based on traits mutating that offer some sort of edge, and thus help that line survive and reproduce.
+--- 14921748
+>>14921742
+educating christians is beneath me
+--- 14921760
+>>14921748
+nah man, you have to be trolling or 13 in which case get off this site
+--- 14921768
+>>14921760yeah
+--- 14921772
+>>14921760
+i am trolling them bc they have already proven themselves intellectually castrated. why try to teach an ape physics?
+--- 14921804
+>>14921744
+>gliding animals instantaneously were birthed one day
+wow! that theory sounds sorta improbable 
+I got this other theory, that this universe's cause (some guy that died on a cross 2000 years ago) created them by way of magic. 
+
+How should we go about figuring out which of these competing theories are most probable?
+--- 14921814
+>>14921804
+I'm not a Christian. I understand you'd rather argue about something more comfortable. But I'm happy in your continued concessions of your inability to offer anything of substance in response.
+--- 14921828
+>>14921814
+How do you make sense of flying squirrels? 
+I'm telling you that they were just instantly birthed one day.
+
+Do you have a better explanation?
+--- 14921835
+>>14921828
+>I'm telling you that they were just instantly birthed one day
+So then, are you suggesting that one day a human baby could be born that can glad around the mountains and trees? Is that your theory? If it is not, why not?
+--- 14921837
+>>14921835
+glide*
+--- 14921838
+>>14921835
+aren’t there humans with webbed toes as a result of this same exact process
+--- 14921839
+reminder that actual Christianity accepted evolution in 1950
+--- 14921850
+>>14921835
+You pointed out the flaw in my theory of evolution, that complex traits would have to come out fully formed by random mutations (I mistakenly believed it to be a gradual process) 
+I have now switched theories, into a theory of evolution were animals spontaneously evolve new traits by extreme random chance
+
+Now, this theory seems really improbable. But how else would you explain the data? (that there are animals with different complex traits/features)
+--- 14921858
+>>14921838
+There are, but that doesn't make them swim faster or something. That would be an example of a first step evolution that doesn't grant any kind of benefit. Thus it would not be something to enhance their ability to reproduce.
+
+Of course squirrels can be born with little useless webbing in their armpits. All kinds of mutations can happen. And some actually are beneficial and do lead to an like evolutionary process model. But this wouldn't serve any kind of purpose. Wouldn't grant them any kind of evolutionary advantage to reproduce. So why would that trait get passed down more than non webbed squirrels?
+--- 14921864
+>>14921858
+if it doesn’t hinder their ability to reproduce then it would just get passed on until the later mutations that do give advantage develop from it
+--- 14921869
+>>14921858
+Do you seriously think biologist have no explanation for this?
+--- 14921870
+>>14921850
+>But how else would you explain the data?
+If you just came up with the big bang right now and submitted the idea, it's not an argument to say that since I cannot provide a better explanation, that I don't have standing in my criticisms of yours. We can all speculate. I can't prove what occurred. I can't come up with a perfectly sound theory. But you cannot either. That's all I'm pointing out. We are both in the same boat. We are speculating. The only difference is that I can admit that holes can be poked in whatever I can speculate. You don't seem willing to make that jump. Thus it is you with the faith, not me.
+--- 14921872
+>>14921864
+That's a pretty good answer. Well done. I'll have to think about that for a little bit and then I'll respond.
+--- 14921880
+>>14921870
+I got a really poor explanation
+You have not told me your explanation
+--- 14921891
+>>14921864
+So, I suppose if this were true, most species would have traits that are completely useless -- But do not hinder them. Just come out bizarre mutations, that serve no purpose, but are all over their bodies and in them. I don't know if one could claim that this is observable. But will continue thinking about this one because it is a good answer.
+--- 14921895
+>>14921880
+>You have not told me your explanation
+As I've stated, I don't have a perfect sound explanation. Just a speculations that could be many different things, and easy to poke holes in. Just like evolution.
+--- 14921897
+>>14921891
+id imagine there is a psychological thing keeping the un-useful mutations from getting too out of hand.
+
+females don’t wanna fuck a dude with six toes type shit.
+--- 14921915
+So like, if extra nubby flesh between a squirrel's arms and legs made it so it had slightly more air resistance when falling from the top of tree, so it doesn't smash to the death against the ground 
+Is it conceivable that this squire would live to pass it's genes on? 
+Maybe it's descendant mutate bigger nubs, that allowed to survive falling from a taller tree, and so on..
+A story about how you get flying squirrels
+
+btw, I think it's super weird how you object to wings/webbing between it arms and legs being a feasible mutation, but allow for "nubs" 
+Just go like: "there is no gene for nubs! Do you think the gene for numbs mutated by random chance?"
+--- 14921921
+>>14921897
+It would be a bit of a leap. Possible, but I can't imagine why I would be more attractive to a woman with mutated fleshy armpits that could perhaps, someday down the line, become a useful gliding mechanism.
+
+Ultimately, all kinds of different mutations must be happening and getting passed down that do not hinder procreation, but ultimately will result in hindering procreation or enhancing it -- Which theoretically should be incredibly more rare than passed on mutations that ultimately hinder (and that line dies out) or do nothing forever. 
+
+>Tl;Dr: where are all the "fleshy armpited squirrels", so to speak, right now that might one day turn into more?
+--- 14921926
+>>14921895
+Do you have any explanation?
+--- 14921928
+>>14921915
+this is a good explanation too
+
+>>14921921
+i didn’t say you’d be more attractive, it just has to not make you less attractive enough that you don’t reproduce. also recall that in the wild rape is common
+--- 14921930
+>>14921915
+>So like, if extra nubby flesh between a squirrel's arms and legs made it so it had slightly more air resistance when falling from the top of tree, so it doesn't smash to the death against the ground
+That would be an explanation, but it would also be a spontaneous evolution of gliding. If the theory of evolution incorporates for something like that happening, then I'd say it's a better theory. But from what I understand, it does not provide for spontaneous evolutions like that. If I'm wrong on that, then I'd like to know.
+--- 14921935
+>>14921744
+Bear in mind that embryonic development comes from something bloblike, limbs and digits separate later. In some cases this process fails, hence the webbed fingers for some humans. It isn't miraculous, just a result of development. That this happened in the past for other species is plausible. Also keep in mind that the areas where animals glide are rainforests, which are more conducive to vertical movement than horizontal movement. If nimble animals are leaping from tree to tree, gliding appendages would be useful and potentially selected for.
+--- 14921937
+>>14921921
+Just hopping into this conversation to tell you guys that the amount of extra skin needed on the side of a squirrel to increase horizontal jump distance is basically nothing. It easily could have been that the first mutation created a horizontal jump advantage.
+--- 14921942
+>>14921928
+>i didn’t say you’d be more attractive, it just has to not make you less attractive enough that you don’t reproduce. also recall that in the wild rape is common
+It's still begs the question about where are all these middle of the road mutations being passed on that don't hinder reproduction. They should be all over the place. Every species should have an assortment of different varieties of uselessly diverse mutations within them.
+--- 14921944
+>>14921891
+That sounds exactly like what we observe in nature, lol
+There are millions of freaks with 6 toes and webbed fingers all over the globe 
+
+In isolated populations, you even see everyone having the same mutation - that has been passed down to them
+--- 14921946
+>>14921937
+If the theory is that gliding spontaneously evolved in one generation, then I'd just like to know that that is the theory. Evolutionists seem unwilling to admit their theory relies upon spontaneous generation being a thing. Which is something I'm just trying to illustrate.
+--- 14921961
+>>14921944
+Well those are all hindrances to reproduction. If we see such things in the animal kingdom, those specimens are not surviving. I, in no way, am suggesting that mutant babies can't occur. They do all the time. But the proposition here is that traits that do not hinder reproduction are passed down, and thus become plentiful. Running parallel to the previous unmutated version. We should see raccoons with a fifth leg on their backs, or something, small enough to not get in the way and just do nothing. We should see things like this all over the place. But we don't.
+--- 14921963
+>>14921891
+Google "vestigial organ"
+--- 14921973
+>>14921946
+More like long jumping then gliding. 
+Flight always develops in very small species that are jumping from tree to tree. This is a genuinely simple problem man.
+--- 14921977
+>>14921963
+Well, vestigial organs were once useful organs that are now not useful anymore. What is being suggested here is that mutations occur that serve no purpose whatsoever from the start. But since they do not hinder procreation, they are passed forward until one day they may perhaps spawn a positive mutation from the previous mutation that leads to evolutionary progression.
+
+If that is true, most species should have plenty of useless traits that never served a purpose whatsoever.
+--- 14921978
+>>14921961
+>We should see raccoons with a fifth leg on their backs, or something, small enough to not get in the way and just do nothing.
+Mutated animals are found in the wild. A fully formed leg isn’t just going to form in a back though, you get protrusions and extra digits and such though
+--- 14921979
+>>14921961
+Animals instinctually don't breed with visibly altered members of their species in the wild. If the visibly altered animal has an adaptation that allows it to survive better, it might be able to, but in the presence of competition this wouldn't happen. And this is observed in mating preferences, not conjectured.
+--- 14921983
+>>14921961
+look, I got a mutation that lets me digest cow milk without getting runny shits
+my Asian buddy does not
+--- 14921984
+>>14921973
+You're just using different terminology to try to make it seem different than gliding. You are suggesting that in one generation, fleshiness happened that allowed that specimen to have an advantage in procreation. Even if the specimen gets one extra second of air time, it's still gliding. That's still an absolutely huge development spontaneously. At which point you would have to submit that a human being could be born that could glide through the air for a second or two spontaneously. That this is part of your theory.
+--- 14921989
+>>14921946
+If the questions you are asking had already been satisfactory answered by biologists
+would that make you think it's more probable that the theory of evolution is true?
+--- 14921990
+>>14921978
+>Mutated animals are found in the wild.
+Right but we're talking about numerous populations of the useless mutation. If the theory is that useless mutations, that do not hinder procreation, are thus passed down, we should be seeing large populations of raccoons with unhindering fifth legs on their back, for example. Not just one unique mutant out there. But populations of the same mutation being carried down.
+--- 14921995
+>>14921984
+Gliding is something an animals does
+something a light animal with connective webbing between it's arms and legs would be able to do
+--- 14921997
+>>14921984
+Humans are too heavy. Webbing comes from incomplete separation of body parts during embryonic development, it can occur in many species but only small, light tree-dwellers can take advantage of it.
+--- 14921998
+>>14921984
+>You are suggesting that in one generation, fleshiness happened that allowed that specimen to have an advantage in procreation. Even if the specimen gets one extra second of air time, it's still gliding. That's still an absolutely huge development spontaneously. 
+It’s really not. As another anon told you membranes and extra flesh are the default and they’re “deleted” in the embryo usually. Even if that’s not the case it’s literally just extra skin 
+
+>At which point you would have to submit that a human being could be born that could glide through the air for a second or two spontaneously. That this is part of your theory.
+No anon, the square cubed law prohibits this and is precisely why flight develops in small creatures and only small creatures, then their descendants that already have wings can only then begin to increase in size.
+--- 14921999
+>>14921979
+>Animals instinctually don't breed with visibly altered members of their species in the wild.
+Then that does away with one theory of evolution put forth in this thread. That non-survival-hindering mutations can still get passed down. If there is a mutation that does not hinder survival in any way whatsoever, or enhance it, then I'm told it is a non-issue and can continue to get passed down until it spawns something potentially useful.
+
+You are now suggesting that this cannot happen. And mutants, even with something useless, like a fleshy armpit that might one day turn into something that glides, would be shunned from reproduction because they would look like a mutant. This would mean we're back to spontaneous gliding being the theory within evolution.
+--- 14922006
+>>14921990
+I’m not the one who told you the first pseudo wings were useless, I believe that anon was wrong. 
+Wings developed in mammals first with extra skin that enabled further jumps and safer falls
+--- 14922010
+>>14921772
+But Anon, you believe you are an ape
+--- 14922013
+>>14921989
+If there are satisfactory answers, I'd like to have a conversation with somebody that knows those answers. If that person is here then hopefully I'll get a conversation with him. This is 4chan, not a scientific journal. We're here to just discuss things. If you have more insight on an issue, I'd be happy to hear it. Until then I'm going to pose questions that seem difficult to answer; that I've yet to have satisfaction from any kind of reading material I've come across.
+--- 14922019
+>>14921942
+>skin color
+--- 14922023
+>>14921995
+All right, so you are suggesting that gliding is just a spontaneous generation. But a prerequisite is that the specimen must be light enough. I would love to see an illustration of the proposed mammal that first spawned an ability to glide. And what kind of massive body transformation is suggested to have happened in one generation.
+--- 14922028
+>>14921997
+That's fair.
+--- 14922034
+>>14922010
+you still don’t get evolution huh
+humans != apes anymore so than a dog is a wolf
+--- 14922035
+>>14921998
+Ok that's fair
+--- 14922037
+>>14922013
+>I would like to know
+Then I would suggest for you to start studding biology 
+
+But I don't really believe you. You seem super resistant to the dumbed-down explanations and speculation that is being provided.
+Almost like you got a bias against there being a non-magic explanation, I don't get it.
+--- 14922039
+>>14922006
+So you are suggesting that gliding, even adding an extra second or two to a fall, is something that spontaneously generated?
+--- 14922040
+>>14921999
+Not suggesting it can't happen at all, just that its rare. There is no "extra appendage" dna sequence, a mutation affects a lot of things and a mutation that causes an extra arm would be very serious. Most cases would have the animal not fit to reproduce, and phenotypical animals wouldnt reproduce with it.
+
+That being said, mating doesn't require consent. An animal that wants to mate can. And if there is a lack of competition, and the mutated animal is still around (say an event happens where the mutation offers an advantage in surviving) then they can still mate. The point is that mating with mutated animals is rare, but can happen. And that when it does happen its often because the mutation offers some advantage, or at least doesn't hinder it.
+
+Also, not all evolution happens rapidly. There is also sexual selection, which happens over a longer time frame.
+--- 14922041
+>>14922034
+>humans != apes
+What are you one of those creationists, don't you believe in the holy word of our prophet Darwin
+--- 14922043
+>>14921999
+look at all the variation within species, those are the useless mutations that get passed on bc they aren’t crazy enough (like a fifth leg, wtf you handicap) to hinder reproduction
+--- 14922044
+>>14922019
+Skin color seems to have a lot to do with adaptation to how close one is to the equator. Far from useless. I also wouldn't consider pigmentation a value that contributes at all to evolution.
+--- 14922046
+>>14922023
+>But a prerequisite is that the specimen must be light enough. 
+Even today almost all bats are tiny very light creatures. Flying squirrels are also small and light even for squirrels. 
+
+It’s literally just extra skin between limbs and/or fingers anon. 
+A bat wings are literally just long fingers with membrane between them
+--- 14922049
+>>14922037
+Can you give me an example of a dumbed down explanation in this thread that should satisfy my questions. Go ahead.
+--- 14922051
+>>14922044
+usefulness isn’t binary, it has degrees
+--- 14922055
+>>14922039
+Yes clearly. It’s just extra skin. As another anon told you in the case of bats the skin is there in fetal state and is literally just not deleted
+--- 14922059
+>>14922037
+>Almost like you got a bias against there being a non-magic explanation
+Reminder that evolution is based on the religion of naturalism
+--- 14922067
+>>14922049
+What was your question. again? 
+The squirrel explanation seemed good
+--- 14922072
+>>14922049
+Small and very light tree dwelling creatures benefit from a membrane or extra skin that increases jump distance and fall safety. 
+In bats it is 100% the same type of mutation a human with webbed digits has. The skin between digits is not deleted.
+--- 14922077
+>>14922040
+But you are relying on the idea that my example mutation is something that actually would hinder the reproduction of the animal. I'll try to think of something more benign. Half of a paw. It in no way would get in the way of survival. Or just imagine your own mutation that wouldn't get in the way of survival. The idea being suggested is that there are all kinds of mutations like that, that are benign, and do not hinder survival. It is not my suggestion, but the suggestion of another person in this thread supporting evolution. To go along with this idea, on must then recognize there would be a countless array of these different mutations that don't hinder survival all over every species. I don't believe that this is observable.
+--- 14922083
+>>14922043
+I was trying to think of a benign mutation. Think of your own benign mutation. Calling mine out for not being benign enough does not go after the point being discussed. Pretend it's just half of a paw that sticks out of the back and does nothing. It doesn't get in the way whatsoever. We would be seeing mutations like that all over the place with every species.
+--- 14922094
+>>14922046
+I do understand that, but I want to specifically talk about when that generated. And how long it took to generate. I understand full flight is theorized to have spawned off of remedial primordial gliding over many generations. So that's why I'm only interested in talking about very elementary gliding. The initial node zero. Was that or was that not an instantaneous one generation mutation? An ability to glide for an extra second or two over a jump? Just enough to make it advantageous to have as a trait.
+--- 14922098
+>>14922083
+>Pretend it's just half of a paw that sticks out of the back and does nothing. It doesn't get in the way whatsoever. We would be seeing mutations like that all over the place with every species.
+Anon genetics doesn’t really do that. You do get extra digits and feet but they are placed right with the other digits and feet and those mutations happen but often are deadly due to locomotion issues.
+--- 14922101
+>>14922055
+Well that's all I wanted to know. You're theory is that something like gliding is a spontaneous evolution. This is typically fought back by evolutionists. But you are now saying that this is the case.
+--- 14922102
+>>14922049
+mutations happen when reproduction happens in the process of cell division or some shit miosis? that’s the term they use
+
+some mutations are useful or aethetically interesting and they get passed on bc the holder can smash hella pussy with his nice new fur coat
+
+some mutations happen but don’t outwardly express themselves much, they just change a couple bits in the genotype (the sequence of DNA itself) without having that change be expressed in the phenotype (what you see when you look at the animal with your eyes). these can build up overtime as they won’t hinder anything reproduction wise if they aren’t outwardly expressed and don’t make them sterile or retarded.
+
+a mutation happens on a sub sequence of dna that has built up non-phenotypical mutations. this mutation changes something that allows the built up mutations when combined with this new change to sudden express itself in a wildly new way when read out to the phenotypical representation
+
+tldr; my nigga the brown bear had incest too many times and his fucking kid came out white, the ice age hits and all the nigga-bears die bc they stand out like a mf to that crazy ass animal that always eats us. leaving only the retarded white bears alive to smash the remaining hoes
+--- 14922105
+>>14922094
+>Was that or was that not an instantaneous one generation mutation? An ability to glide for an extra second or two over a jump? Just enough to make it advantageous to have as a trait.
+That is the most parsimonious and sensical explanation yes
+--- 14922106
+>>14922059
+I'm not a naturalist, I'm a supernaturalist 
+I believe in ghosts, I have had serval spooky experiences 
+
+If I need to incorporate ghosts into the theory of evolution, I will 
+Maybe new traits are caused by poltergeists with the specific desire to cause the traits we are trying to explain (sounds ad hoc, I know!) 
+
+Do not assume constraints on the power of poltergeists, they got magic 
+They can explain anything, because they can do everything
+--- 14922115
+>>14922101
+>This is typically fought back by evolutionists.
+What biologists deny that the first gliding structure was not beneficial?
+--- 14922117
+>>14922098
+Okay, that's a fair answer. So I can think of genetics as something like crystalline structure. There are defined routes genetics can take mutations. I believe this is what you are saying. If you are not, then I apologize and I would like a clarification.
+--- 14922127
+>>14922077
+1. phenotypical animals wont want to mate with it
+2. mutations like that don't just add an extra appendage, its going to have far reaching and harmful effects 
+3.>>14922098 what he said
+--- 14922129
+>>14922117
+the code changing that would be required to make a new appendage is massive compared to what usually happens each generation. so to make a new appendage would require an absurdly long sequence of just the right mutations to the dna sequence that is basically statistically impossible
+--- 14922130
+>>14922117
+Anything can happen but visible mutations are already rare, a foot is a complex structure and location on the animal is part of the code 
+You might get a protrusion on the back of an extra toe on each foot but you’re almost certainly not getting all of that at once
+--- 14922139
+>>14922102
+I think your post is consistent with the theory of evolution. But it again begs the question as to why we do not see countless large populations of different species with useless mutations all over the place. Benign mutations that don't get in the way of survival at all. Not just inapparent non expressive ones. 
+
+This situation was presented by in anon in this thread to explain how gliding can happen over time because fleshy armpits would not hinder reproduction. So they are passed down benign way until they eventually have a function. 
+
+I'm just wondering which way the theory actually goes? That seems to be some dispute here. Others are saying gliding was a spontaneous generation, albeit remedial/primordial. So the specimens had survival advantage immediately.
+--- 14922141
+>>14922130
+ya precisely, you’d need a massively long generational sequence of just the right mutations for some complex part to duplicate itself at some other location
+--- 14922145
+>>14922139
+not all mutations express themselves phenotypcially, id wager most don’t. it’s a process of building up change that doesn’t express itself until one day the wave crests
+--- 14922149
+>>14922139
+Anon I have more of a university biology education than most people here and I’ll tell you right now that anon was wrong. The first skin and membrane mutation in bats and squirrels was almost certainly a leaping and falling advantage, and not a useless trait.
+--- 14922153
+Assuming we know nothing about biology, what most likely? 
+
+That new traits got a natural explanation
+or
+That new traits got a supernatural explanation
+--- 14922157
+>>14922105
+Well as a critic of evolution, I find that to be the most sound and the one I would have the most problems with in debunking. But I also don't believe most evolutionists agree with that.
+--- 14922169
+Btw, there is no gene for 'foot'
+this is so silly
+--- 14922171
+>>14922157
+>But I also don't believe most evolutionists agree with that.
+Guy I don’t know what an evolutionist is but the only opinions that matter here are biologists and people who know what the biologists say about it.
+--- 14922172
+>>14922127
+>phenotypical animals wont want to mate with it
+Then that means apparent benign mutations, themselves, are a hindrance to procreation. You thus cannot have a situation where a benign mutation happens in one generation and then is built on in further generations. Those specimens, according to you, cannot reproduce and thus will die out.
+--- 14922178
+>>14922157
+What answers was this criticism given, and why do you reject them?
+--- 14922183
+>>14922117
+A cell has a genetic code. This genetic code is made up of genes. Each gene is a discrete unit that tells the cell to make a gene product (it's actually a lot more complicated but let's just say that 1 gene = 1 protein for the sake of ease). But genes aren't the WHAT of the code, just the where. An allele is the "what". You have 11 genes (sites in the code) that control your hair color. Human hair color has pigmentation, black/brown and red/yellow. Your scalp cells make the hair, and then make the pigment, and then make pigment-deleter enzymes. This is a really common thing in molecular biology, the "make a bunch of stuff and then trim it down" trick. 
+
+The alleles are the specific amino acid sequences inhabiting the 11 sites. A person with brown hair has different alleles at those 11 sites than a person with red hair (a person with red hair has lots of brown/black pigment deleter, but very little red/yellow pigment deleter). 
+
+Because an allele is a specific amino acid sequence, and due to how DNA works, there are only so many ways that a given allele can mutate. So, the allele that controls 1/11th of you hair color can't suddenly code for a third arm because the sequence has a set physical structure (the way that the atoms that make it up are arranged). A given gene is thus limited in what it can do, and how much. 
+
+So, yes, there are defined routes that mutations can take. HOWEVER, a mutation CAN arise such that the gene (the site on the code) changes, but that requires other mutations in more "structural" areas of the cell.
+--- 14922184
+>>14922130
+Don't get me wrong, a lot of aspects of evolution are absolutely true. We can watch adaptation in real time. We do have these functions through mutations. But this theory doesn't explain everything, in my opinion. Unless we also have spontaneous generation. Which generally evolutionists will fight against. My point is merely to illustrate that they must include that in their theory if they want a sound theory.
+--- 14922191
+>>14922183
+Fantastic post
+--- 14922194
+>>14922149
+Well you're the kind of person I want to talk to. So the suggestion is that a specimen was born that could utilize fleshy webbing to add an extra second or two to a jump, or what have you? That would certainly not be a useless trait, and thus be in line with evolutionary dynamics. But it also illustrates one generation massive leaps in evolutionary utility are a normal dynamic.
+--- 14922199
+>>14922184
+>Unless we also have spontaneous generation. Which generally evolutionists will fight against.
+It’s called biology and the experts biologists. You should be consulting them or people who know biology. So far only myself and especially this guy >>14922183
+know what they’re talking about. 
+The first mutation that led to gliding was useful at first mutation or it would not have spread.
+--- 14922205
+>>14922184
+Guess your beliefs commits you to a modified theory of evolution + spontaneous generation
+--- 14922207
+>>14922194
+>So the suggestion is that a specimen was born that could utilize fleshy webbing to add an extra second or two to a jump, or what have you? That would certainly not be a useless trait, and thus be in line with evolutionary dynamics
+Correct 
+
+Remember, significant mutations are rare, natural selection is not a strong pressure and takes hundreds of thousands of years to do anything significant unless pressures like human activity dramatically alter the environment.
+--- 14922210
+>>14922139
+>with useless mutations all over the plac
+We do. There's all sorts of stupid shit on organisms that serves no purpose. This is called "vestigiality". We humans have muscles in our skulls that do nothing, the veins to our testicles are all kinds of goofy, we still have the genes for tails, and so on. 20% of our genetic code just does nothing at all ("junk DNA"), and instead serves as a mutation buffer. If 100% of your DNA coded for stuff, then a single error is a 100% mutation rate. If only 4/5ths code for stuff, then a single mutation only has a 4/5ths error rate. If the DNA evolves "guards" (such as duplication and what not), then you can lower that ratio even more. 
+
+Evolution is a process by which individuals in a population are subject to a sorting mechanism that minimizes, for lack of a better term, energy expenditure, and maximizes fitness (ability to have kids). As long as you are above a minimum or below a maximum, you're good. You don't have to be perfect, you just have to be good enough. If 1% slower fall-speed because of your weird flappy armpits makes you "good enough" to breed, then you breed. If 1% faster fall-speed because of your svelt armpits makes you "not good enough" to breed, then you don't breed. Now apply that to an entire population over however long.
+--- 14922215
+>>14922205
+I have a minor in biology and took a class specifically on Evolution and never once heard “spontaneous generation” it’s just called a mutation
+--- 14922223
+>>14922183
+And I have no issue with any of this. Adaptation is a real thing. Nobody with a sound mind would disagree that adaptation is something life is equipped with. The only issue is that adaptation is based on advantage from mutation. So it cannot function unless a mutation is advantageous, or at least benign enough to be passed around until it becomes advantageous. This is why I think talking about how gliding evolved is important. Because unless it was a spontaneous one generation leap in evolution, there was no evolutionary advantage or adaptive advantage, if you will, to its primordial stages. But not only that, if it required primordial stages, then we would see primordial stages of a lot of different developments in every species. With large populations of these developments.
+
+Basically, I believe adaptation is exploited to imply a lot of things the evolution of life from a single cell organism does not actually explain.
+--- 14922234
+>>14922223
+Anon I can’t stress enough how much a flying squirrel ancestor just has excess skin on its body and it’s one of the least incredible mutations imaginable
+--- 14922239
+>>14922215
+Spontaneous generation is a description of a process. One doesn't need to use typical jargon to deliver meaning of principles. That's more of a linguistic issue and completely beside the point.
+
+Thus far, you've only illustrated life's ability to adapt. But have yet to illustrate why an adaptation would prosper without any kind of benefit at the start of the adaptation. And if we have all these different benign processes of adaptation in the works. Where are they? Every species should have many of these going on.
+--- 14922243
+>>14922215
+Most evolotionists would fight against that
+--- 14922246
+>>14922234
+Sounds like we should have lots of different flying rodents, then. All with different lines of mutation that form separately because it's such a remedial deformity.
+--- 14922248
+>>14922239
+>Thus far, you've only illustrated life's ability to adapt. But have yet to illustrate why an adaptation would prosper without any kind of benefit at the start of the adaptation.
+Anon you’re latching onto the words of the only guy in the thread who didn’t know what he was talking about. The first mutation for a flying squirrel would have had to have been useful. 
+I’m not explaining this to you again and I’m going to regret being civil with you if you keep repeating it.
+--- 14922250
+>>14922207
+>like human activity dramatically alter the environment.
+To add onto what this anon says here, go look at dog breeds if you want to see "random shit". Border Collies get random seizures, basically every breed WILL die from some specific illness after a very specific period of time, many breeds can barely breathe, or get some very specific cancer that makes them useless, etc. Natural Selection is minimizing the number of deleterious "random-bullshits" while maximizing the number of beneficial "random-bullshits".
+
+>>14922205
+The field's come a long way since Darwin. This stuff is really fucking complicated.
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_synthesis_(20th_century)#Later_syntheses
+
+>>14922223
+>The only issue is that adaptation is based on advantage from mutation. So it cannot function unless a mutation is advantageous, or at least benign enough to be passed around until it becomes advantageous.
+Absolutely not, there's plenty of stuff that has no bearing on an organism's survival. An example would be the leftover pigmentation in various cave critters that live in total darkness. There's no selective pressure to lose pigmentation and be 100% translucent.
+
+>unless it was a spontaneous one generation leap in evolution, there was no evolutionary advantage or adaptive advantage
+A mutation doesn't need to be advantageous to occur. Rather, an organism that is more fit will be more likely to breed. Some mutations do absolutely nothing for an organism, like the pigmentation of internal organs, and so there's no selection in either direction. 
+
+>then we would see primordial stages of a lot of different developments in every species
+We do. Go look up any of the myriad of extinct ancient animals that are just "some ancestor of modern bears". We're living in the period of the "primordial super-corvid" and the "primordial wolf-dog-coyote masterrace" right now.
+--- 14922254
+>>14922246
+Among the tree dwelling rodents they have flying species called flying squirrels. Most rodents spend their lives on the ground and don’t have any benefit from flight. 
+Anon you’re smart enough to get this and not learn from this exchange.
+--- 14922259
+>>14922243
+Disagree and biologists and biology are all that matter here. The one guy here who got it wrong that you’re referring to while ignoring what the rest of us tell you was incorrect.
+--- 14922263
+>>14922239
+Is it possible that "a mutation" would come with multiple traits?
+like tiny nubs/webbing (might not always be expressed. just latent in the dna) + the ability to resists some kind of disease, etc
+--- 14922265
+>>14922248
+You should probably refrain from using an anonymous message board if you are unable to deal with confusion from the sources of propositions. You already sound like you have emotional problems. Maybe move on.
+--- 14922273
+>>14922246
+There are. "Tree-rat that flies/glides" has evolved at least five times (Pteromyini, Chiroptera, Acrobatidiae, Pseudocheiridae, Petauridae), once in bats, once in true flying squirrels, and three separate times in "weird shit in Oceania".
+--- 14922277
+>>14922265
+You’re replying to my posts with the opinions of a different person. 
+You’re deliberately doing it because you need to pick the worst argument for evolution in order to keep acting like opposing it makes sense.
+--- 14922279
+>>14922250
+Thanks anon. I'll think about this stuff more. I appreciate your post.
+--- 14922280
+>>14922273
+Based biologist anon
+--- 14922285
+>>14922172
+See >>14922040. It is unlikely that phenotypical animals mating with those with "benign" mutations occurs, but not impossible.
+--- 14922289
+>>14920621 (OP)
+The theory of evolution is a widely accepted scientific theory that explains how species change and adapt over time through the process of natural selection. The theory is based on a vast amount of empirical evidence from various fields of science, including genetics, paleontology, biogeography, and more.
+
+The evidence for evolution includes the fossil record, comparative anatomy and embryology, molecular biology, and observations of natural selection in action. The theory has been tested and validated through numerous experiments and observations and is widely accepted within the scientific community.
+
+It is important to note that scientific theories are not just popular conjectures, but rather are explanations of natural phenomena that have been rigorously tested, supported by evidence, and subject to revision as new evidence is discovered. The theory of evolution is no exception and continues to be refined as new research is conducted.
+
+In conclusion, the theory of evolution is a well-established scientific theory that has been extensively tested and supported by evidence. It is widely accepted in the scientific community and is not a conjecture or a matter of personal opinion
+--- 14922290
+>>14922263
+>Is it possible that "a mutation" would come with multiple traits?
+Yes. Many proteins are multi-use. FOXP2 (a protein that's key in language functioning in the brain) is used for all sorts of brain stuff, speech, motor control, and also appears to have some kind of structural function in joints. It's also used by bats, birds, and mice in vocalization and audio processing. Another example is Dwarfism, which is caused by an over-production of an enzyme that causes bones to stop growing (as in, the size at which they "freeze" and stop getting bigger). The (over)production of this enzyme affects ALL of your bones, not just like, one specific bone.
+
+>>14922273
+Also, just to add to this: I'm assuming that bats are monophyletic (there is a theoretical "bat Adam and Eve") because there's no evidence that they aren't, but given that bats are like, 50 million years old, it's entirely possible that the modern bat lineage is actually the result of several instances of convergent evolution by proto-bats that could breed.
+
+An example of that would be like how modern humans come from like 4-6 hominid lineages, or what is probably going to happen with canids in the future when dogs, coyotes, and wolves merge until there's just one macro-canine, with no clear evidence of there ever having been three separate lineages that spliced apart from the ancestral wolf and then re-combined.
+--- 14922444
+>>14922259
+how the fuck did i get it wrong by saying not all mutations express themselves phenotypically and this not all mutations that are passed on are necessarily beneficial. benign simply means not useful but not hindering either. therefore any mutation that didn’t express itself phenotypically would be considered benign. 
+
+just bc i was dumbing it down doesn’t mean i got it wrong
+--- 14922595
+>>14921984
+No, a human cannot. You cannot act as if organism magnitude is of no relevance. I want you to understand just how non-trivial mathematical considerations are. A squirrel is 3 to 4 orders of magnitude smaller than a human. This interfaces with things like the square cube law.
+A tiny mammal with in principle 90% the same equipment as a giant elephant can more readily derive use from random fleshy exaggerations.
+--- 14922902
+Remember, when you are arguing with a christian, this is the type of person you are arguing with. A knowledge-base smaller than your average middle schooler who no matter how many times has it explained to him will never grasp your argument.

his/14920669.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,265 @@
+-----
+--- 14920669
+Americans talk a lot about Midway or Guadalcanal. But the fact is the Soviets really defeated Japan. In a few weeks they defeated the pride of the Japanese army, the Kwangtung army, taking 600 000 prisoners, while the US only faced the japanese navy.
+They also were getting ready to invade Hokkaido. Japan surrendered because they were rapidly defeated by the Soviets, not because of the bombs.
+--- 14920675
+>>14920669 (OP)
+>attack reserve units aft the tail end of a war after Chinese, American, and local resistance combined with a mass resource embargo had ground their war machine down to a halt
+
+Nope! Sorry, but that’s a lie!
+--- 14920688
+>>14920675
+And yet America never managed to defeat such a significant Japanese force.
+--- 14920696
+>>14920688
+Yes they did, plus the opened up the path to bombing the Japanese mainland which is really what turned the tide of the war. Not a bunch of vatniks attacking reservists and Chinese conscripts who didn’t want to be there.
+--- 14920754
+>>14920696
+>Not a bunch of vatniks attacking reservists and Chinese conscripts who didn’t want to be there.
+The Kwangtung army was the best Japan had. And they were defeated in a matter of days. Sakhalin and the Kurils were also quickly invaded and Hokkaido was going to be invaded as well before the Japanese shat themselves and surrendered to the Americans.
+--- 14920765
+>>14920754
+>Kwangtung army was the best Japan had
+Citation? Reference? Logic?
+--- 14920772
+The decision to surrender was made before the Soviet invasion.
+The emperor specifically names the atomic weapons in his speech as the reason for surrender.
+
+The Japanese government wanted to surrender a long time ago. The military refused. The government couldnt sway the army to accept surrender because of some petty domestic issues like civilians starving and freezing to death, but they could when America showed them the nuclear bomb.
+
+The soviet invasion however meant that Japan had lost its last diplomatic window for the soviets to act as mediators to prevent a full rape of Japans integrity by the USA during peace negotiations. 
+When USSR invaded, Japan knew that unconditional surrender was the only surrender they were going to get (with one minor exception).
+--- 14920776
+>>14920754
+>our best army…. IS LE RESERVES
+>our mediocre army? FRONT LINE DUTY
+
+Keep going, this is funny
+--- 14920782
+>>14920754
+>The Kwangtung army was the best Japan had
+They did fuck all for almost a decade.
+--- 14920788
+>>14920765
+>The Kwantung Army became the most prestigious command in the Imperial Japanese Army, and many of its personnel won promotion to high positions in the Japanese military and civil government, including Hideki Tōjō and Seishirō Itagaki. 
+https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwantung_Army
+--- 14920789
+>>14920765
+>Citation? Reference? Logic?
+--- 14920792
+>>14920772
+>When USSR invaded, Japan knew that unconditional surrender was the only surrender they were going to get (with one minor exception)
+And the Americans hastily accepted to let the emperor get away because they knew Japan was going to be completely defeated by the Soviets.
+--- 14920795
+>>14920669 (OP)
+>12k soviets died (x2 wounded) just to see the US end the war with two bombs
+lmao
+--- 14920802
+>>14920788
+prestigious =/= good
+Manchukuo was founded by the militarists so of course they'd promote their own people to positions of power.
+--- 14920804
+>>14920788
+The paragraph you cited is referring to the army’s condition during the outbreak of the Sino-Japanese war.
+
+HOWEVER here’s some clarification of how the army was stripped down over the course of WW2
+
+>As combat spread south into Central China and Southern China in the Second Sino-Japanese War, and with the outbreak of the Pacific War, Manchukuo was largely a backwater to the conflict. However, as the war situation began to deteriorate for the Imperial Japanese Army on all fronts, the large, well-trained, and well-equipped Kwantung Army could no longer be held in strategic reserve. Many of its front line units were systematically stripped of their best units and equipment, which were sent south to fight in the Pacific War against the forces of the United States in the Pacific Islands or the Philippines. Other units were sent south into China for Operation Ichi-Go.
+--- 14920811
+>>14920792
+
+Regardless of how you spin it, the entire OP is arguing a false thesis.
+Japan had already decided to surrender before the USSR invasion. The atomic bombings were the most crucial factor to that decision.
+--- 14920813
+>>14920802
+>prestigious =/= good
+But the most prestigious Japanese army can hardly be called a bunch of unmotivated conscripts.
+--- 14920814
+As combat spread south into Central China and Southern China in the Second Sino-Japanese War, and with the outbreak of the Pacific War, Manchukuo was largely a backwater to the conflict. However, as the war situation began to deteriorate for the Imperial Japanese Army on all fronts, the large, well-trained, and well-equipped Kwantung Army could no longer be held in strategic reserve. Many of its front line units were systematically stripped of their best units and equipment, which were sent south to fight in the Pacific War against the forces of the United States in the Pacific Islands or the Philippines. Other units were sent south into China for Operation Ichi-Go.
+
+Hits so nice, I had to post it twice
+
+Thread over, communism LOSES AGAIN
+--- 14920848
+>>14920804
+And yet the Soviets captured 600 000 Japanese in a few days. Cope.
+--- 14920854
+>>14920848
+Reservist shitholers + Chinese conscripts + the Soviets were lying
+
+It’s over, you lost just like the LOSERSSR
+--- 14920855
+>>14920848
+Except the Soviets literally ran out men and tapped out and even considered signing their own treaty with Japan lmfao
+--- 14920856
+>>14920813
+Being a professional at something doesn't mean being good either.
+--- 14920865
+>>14920855
+>Except the Soviets literally ran out men and tapped out and even considered signing their own treaty with Japan lmfao
+They were preparing to invade Hokkaido. Why would they plan a separate peace?
+--- 14920870
+>>14920792
+>America: What can we do to avoid this invasion?
+>Russia: How many retards do I need to throw at this problem until it's gone.
+Ah, tradition.
+--- 14920873
+>>14920865
+Russians ne like that.
+They were even discussing peace with the Germans in 1943.
+When they were winning.
+--- 14920875
+>>14920792
+>Japan was going to be completely defeated by the Soviets.
+
+>By August 1945, the Pacific Fleet consisted of two cruisers, one destroyer leader, ten destroyers, two torpedo boats, 19 patrol boats, 78 submarines, ten minelayers, 52 minesweepers, 49 "MO" anti-submarine boats (MO stands for Maлый Oхoтник, or "little hunter"), 204 motor torpedo boats and 1459 war planes.
+
+hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
+--- 14920876
+>>14920870
+>Americans : bomb civilians for years with no effect
+>Soviets : defeat the Japanese army in one week
+Here's your difference
+--- 14920878
+>>14920875
+So? It obviously was enough to invade Sakhalin, Korea and the Kurils.
+--- 14920881
+>>14920878
+>So? Who cares about naval fleets for an amphibious invasion?
+--- 14920886
+>>14920870
+
+Lmao made my laugh.
+--- 14920888
+what was the japanese plan for china
+--- 14920897
+>>14920881
+It just means even with a small fleet the Soviets were perfectly capable of amphibious assaults, and they proved it.
+--- 14920899
+>>14920876
+You keep trying to make the invasion sound impressive.
+The invasion of a backwards and neglegted rearguard.
+--- 14920978
+>>14920888
+same as korea, turn it into one big puppet state then annex it as soon as they get their troops and secret police in
+--- 14920994
+pro tip
+
+without American lend lease aid the Soviets would have been spitroasted in 43
+
+this is not up for debate, America secured the future of the free world you see today
+--- 14921019
+>>14920994
+
+By 43 most of the german car park was out of service, half the werhmacht was riding donkeys, the russians didnt even do it it was just the mud it all got stuck in, even without the lend lease the red army would be pushing them back by the end of 44 even if they only had rocks to throw
+--- 14921039
+>>14921019
+>>14920994
+>>14920978
+>>14920899
+>>14920897
+>>14920881
+>>14920878
+>>14920876
+>>14920875
+>>14920873
+>>14920870
+>>14920865
+>>14920856
+>>14920855
+>>14920854
+>>14920848
+>>14920813
+
+
+WHAT ARE YOU DUMB FUCKING MORONS EVEN ARGUING ABOUT.
+
+OP said Japan surrendered because of the Soviet invasion.
+He was wrong.
+Japan had already decided to surrender before the invasion.
+They surrendered because of the atomic bombing.
+
+End of thread ffs.
+--- 14921107
+>>14921039
+>>14920669 (OP)
+Japan did kinda surrender because of the soviets, but not because of their military might or battles lol. After the atomic bomb the Japan were holding out on the Soviets hoping they would be a neutral mediator in a surrender agreement b/w the US and japan as apposed to japan going into unconditional surrender. But once the soviets started attacking they knew that dream was out the window, so they just surrendered.
+--- 14921136
+>>14920792
+This is gibberish
+--- 14921152
+>>14921019
+It was real in your mind
+--- 14921191
+>>14920813
+What? No. Prestigious means the aristocrats sent favored sons here to keep them out of trouble and groom them for aristocratic life.
+--- 14921761
+>>14920669 (OP)
+>>14921039
+this is a gay fact that is literally only used as a "huh erm actually" snarky lil bait by actual trannys, faggots, and college professors trying to seem smart about ww2
+--- 14921786
+>>14920669 (OP)
+And that's why the Soviet invasion has a tiny paragraph dedicated to it on a wall in Yasukuni shrine, as opposed to the hallways and hallways of information on the Pacific War. And before you claim that it's cause Japan is a US vassal, if that were the case, Yasukuni would talk about nip warcrimes like the Nanking massacre, but it doesn't.
+--- 14921853
+As combat spread south into Central China and Southern China in the Second Sino-Japanese War, and with the outbreak of the Pacific War, Manchukuo was largely a backwater to the conflict. However, as the war situation began to deteriorate for the Imperial Japanese Army on all fronts, the large, well-trained, and well-equipped Kwantung Army could no longer be held in strategic reserve. Many of its front line units were systematically stripped of their best units and equipment, which were sent south to fight in the Pacific War against the forces of the United States in the Pacific Islands or the Philippines. Other units were sent south into China for Operation Ichi-Go.
+--- 14921892
+>As combat spread south into Central China and Southern China in the Second Sino-Japanese War, and with the outbreak of the Pacific War, Manchukuo was largely a backwater to the conflict. However, as the war situation began to deteriorate for the Imperial Japanese Army on all fronts, the large, well-trained, and well-equipped Kwantung Army could no longer be held in strategic reserve. Many of its front line units were systematically stripped of their best units and equipment, which were sent south to fight in the Pacific War against the forces of the United States in the Pacific Islands or the Philippines. Other units were sent south into China for Operation Ichi-Go.
+--- 14921907
+>anon, tell me what happened again as combat spread south into Central China and Southern China in the Second Sino-Japanese War....
+--- 14921955
+>>14921107
+>Japan did kinda surrender because of the soviets, but not because of their military might or battles
+Of course it did. Manchuria was conquered in a few weeks spanning fear in the Japanese elites. The Soviets were going to take all over Japan easily.
+--- 14921964
+>>14921786
+>And that's why the Soviet invasion has a tiny paragraph dedicated to it on a wall in Yasukuni shrine, as opposed to the hallways and hallways of information on the Pacific War.
+Japanese probably don't want to admit they were completely destroyed by the USSR in a matter of days.
+--- 14922091
+>>14921964
+No the USSR didn't have enough lend lease left to do that. Also Soviets were fleas compared to what the Americans were putting up.
+--- 14922161
+>>14920792
+The Americans decided to keep the Emperor around to serve as a puppet figure to ease reconstruction. They feared that if they put him on trial it would cause the populace to revolt. The Soviets had planned to invade Hokkaido after their success at South Sakhalin and Kuril, but cancelled their plans due to lack of resources and because it was agreed upon at the Potsdam Declarations that the Home Islands would surrender to Douglas MacArthur.
+--- 14922310
+>>14920754
+The Kwantung army that the Soviets faced were freshly raised garrison formations. The best units were sent piecemeal to the Pacific/ Burma-China and were destroyed by the Western armies.
+--- 14922318
+>>14920788
+This isn't a battle record.
+--- 14922343
+>>14920669 (OP)
+It wasn't the USSR's military victories that shocked Japan It was the fact that the invasion meant Japan could no longer use the USSR as a potential mediator between them and the Allies.
+--- 14922350
+>>14920669 (OP)
+I thought the Soviets made a treaty with Japan
+--- 14922352
+wasnt the soviet attack, an opportunist move to the confused and morally defeated japanese because of the boms ?
+
+soviets have the win vs germany i dont think they need more victories than that, let japan defeat to the americans
+--- 14922355
+>>14922350
+They said SIKE
+--- 14922357
+>>14920776
+Lmfao well you put it that way
+--- 14922705
+>>14920688
+yes they did. more than that in fact, although in segments. japan lost 600,000 men in the Phillipines and New Guinea.
+--- 14922811
+>>14920669 (OP)
+>They also were getting ready to invade Hokkaido
+Far lesser than US navy 
+lmao sure tankie
+--- 14923076
+>>14920669 (OP)
+>US only fought at sea against nips 
+Okinawa wants to have a word with you, OP.
+--- 14923272
+Thoughts on following article? 
+https://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/30/the-bomb-didnt-beat-japan-stalin-did/
+--- 14923320
+>>14923272
+Pure unfiltered copium
+--- 14923423
+>>14920669 (OP)
+the kwangtung army had been moved back to japan to prepare for downfall, the troops the russians faced were green recruits

his/14920743.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,143 @@
+-----
+--- 14920840
+Nigger poop cum8
+--- 14920868
+Adding "muh" to legitimate arguments doens't make them untrue lol
+--- 14920885
+/r same meme about missile technology
+--- 14920890
+>>14920840
+America lost the gulf war. 
+>>14920743 (OP)
+You left out tons of planes and many of the kills were by soviets.
+--- 14920907
+>>14920743 (OP)
+>mig 21 had 500 losses
+About half those are fake claims by Iran. 
+>flogger
+Bomber.
+>foxbat
+Recon planes.
+>fulcrum
+Flankers.
+>American kills
+All of those were against obsolete planes. If you compare specific matchups it fails.
+The fishbed was about 1:1 with the phantom. The flogger and phantom never fought each other. The foxbat is 1-0 against the eagle. The fulcrum is 2-2 because package q.
+--- 14921073
+beep, beep, beep
+--- 14921084
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Communism sucks at actually creating things that don't involve talent and currency black holes.
+--- 14921515
+>>14920890
+The existence of the petrodollar negates this claim.
+--- 14921538
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Obligatory
+--- 14921542
+>>14921084
+>currency black holes.
+Those are unique to capitalism. Communism only has labour and resource based black holes.
+--- 14921561
+>>14920743 (OP)
+you are one of the worst name fags on this board please just go back to r/hoi4
+--- 14921632
+>>14921542
+>Those are unique to capitalism
+
+Tell that to the Soviet economy planners who wagered their currency against fuel exports which wound up imploding.
+
+>>14921561
+Only Paradox game I play is Stellaris
+--- 14921730
+>>14920743 (OP)
+--- 14921736
+>>14921730
+cope
+--- 14921749
+>>14920743 (OP)
+
+In the 1960s, Soviet engineers created several computer lines in Moscow, Kiev, Minsk, Yerevan and Penza. All these machines were incompatible with each other, and each of them had to write all the software anew. Therefore, in 1967 [1969] the Soviet government decided to copy the best samples of Western computers, then to borrow software for them in the West.
+
+
+But by 1970 none of the Soviet computers in use were third-generation machines; they were first-generation (tubes), and second-generation (transistors) machines equipped with wholly inadequate peripherals and relatively primitive software. The Soviet programmers lagged behind their American predecessors for 6-8 years.
+
+The "make or take" decision haunted the Soviet computer industry. The Soviet government decided to put a stop to these unique Soviet developments and resolved to pirate copies of Western systems instead. As a result, an entire industry’s progress was halted. In addition, the industrial base necessary to make computers has not fully developed. Early Soviet efforts to copy the IBM System 360 were failures.
+
+“This was the worst possible decision,” says Yury Revich, a historian and programmer. “The Soviet government and partly the builders themselves were to blame for the fact that the industry ceased to develop independently. Each group cooked in its own juices and the regime of secrecy made it easier for several technological solutions to be borrowed from Western scientific journals.”
+--- 14921755
+>>14921749
+
+The decision was made at the highest government levels of the Soviet Union to coordinate development and production of a new series of compatible machines with its COMECON partners. This series of machines – the Unified Series or ES – was to be based on the IBM System/360. When the Ryad series of Soviet computers was introduced, each was an exact copy of the IBM-360/370 down to its wiring and English language instruction set. Each Ryad model followed its IBM equivalent model by about 8 years. Soviet models did, however, have serious software problems and were less reliable than the IBM originals. The Soviets illegally acquired IBM 360 and 370 computers from the West in 1972. In 1976, a Riad-40 (IBM 360 clone) was purchased from East Germany by an independent research agency in Washington, DC. Upon close inspection the Soviet Riad computer proved to be far less of a machine than its IBM counterpart of the previous decade. The consequence of the Soviets' policy to replicate the computer systems of the West rather than design their own has been even more damaging in the production of software than of hardware.
+--- 14921762
+>>14921730
+--- 14921767
+beep beep ima jeep
+--- 14921779
+>>14920743 (OP)
+The Hind is the sexiest helicopter ever made
+--- 14921780
+>>14921632
+>>14921736
+im trans too idk if that matters
+--- 14922842
+>>14921767
+>When a gun camera records a wing torn off an aircraft or a pilot ejecting, there is no doubt the attacker has a valid claim, but some 24 percent of North Vietnam’s claimed 134 shootdowns involved American aircraft demonstrably not lost under the claimed circumstances, and a further 19 percent were made on days when no U.S. aircraft were recorded lost over North Vietnam. An additional 17 percent were credits awarded for shooting down Ryan “Firebee” reconnaissance drones—robot jet aircraft originally designed as aerial targets. Thus 60 percent of the North Vietnamese claims were invalid.
+https://www.historynet.com/how-north-vietnam-claimed-more-aces-than-it-really-had/
+--- 14922859
+>>14920743 (OP)
+They only had tech parity in the 1950s by piggybacking off German tech. Communists can't into innovation. Your ideas aren't properly rewarded ($$$) under such a system.
+
+Just look at the creator of Tetris. The guy should have been one of the richest men alive.
+--- 14922867
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Lack of competition that exists in free markets.
+--- 14922871
+>>14920743 (OP)
+I'm sure a plethora of reasons. But most likely because of strict adherence to government loyalty and ideology that pervaded education, business and science.
+
+As well as inefficient use of resources and general neglect of the greater population.
+--- 14922872
+china can't make ballpoint pens because they don't have the precision to make the ball
+--- 14922906
+>>14920743 (OP)
+>source is some random military web page
+discarded
+--- 14922922
+>Fascist technology
+Like what? Horse carriages and failed superweapons?
+--- 14922936
+>>14921749
+>The Soviet government decided to put a stop to these unique Soviet developments and resolved to pirate copies of Western systems instead
+
+A tale as old as time, USSR brainlets can't invent, only steal
+--- 14922960
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Because communism is effeminate and men with female traits don’t dream about lathes and horizontal drill presses. There is a great divide between a five year plan and brass tacks.
+--- 14922962
+>>14922960
+Weird how trannies showed up in the capitalist west desu.
+--- 14922983
+>>14922960
+A very sad feature of the USSR pressing Eastern Europe into its service was that these formerly inventive ethnic groups had their technology adventures halted, as the bolsheviks put ideology before individual epiphany.
+--- 14922990
+>>14922983
+Only applies to Czechs. Balts, Polacks, Hungarians and Romanians have always been backward-ass savages who needed German migrant communities to keep up with the latest knowhow.
+--- 14923001
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Communism is a shit economic system where nobody has any incentive to provide value to their fellow man.
+--- 14923002
+>>14922962
+Trannies have been in recorded history for thousands of years yet they are not the stock of great inventors and the like. I would imagine that a person caught up in their sexuality would have scant moments to ponder hydraulic circuits.
+--- 14923026
+>>14923001
+I met this Russian Jew years ago who came west under glasnost. His grandpa was shipped from eastern Poland to Uzbekistan of all places. Anyways, this fellow said he had a little side business going on the black market… he had honey bees and sold honey until his neighbors snitched him out to the commie lords almighty. Governments do not invent, that is the arena of free men.
+--- 14923598
+>>14923001
+> has any incentive to provide value to their fellow man
+Said from the same iteration of Iphone shit, whose only technological advancement was in convincing onions-guzzlers that they need to spend thousand dollars on a new model, lmao.
+t. still uses a fridge made by Soviets in 1960-ies.
+--- 14923613
+>>14920743 (OP)
+Iteration. Commies designed/chose things by commitee and ran the manufacturing top down, rarely budging. Some group would decide that toothbrushes would be such and such size, in this and this many colors, with this and this many thistles, and just crank them out without any deviation. Anyone with a better idea would have to scratch tons of backs and then deal with some boomer who didn't want to budge anyways.
+Capitalism freed up the market to produce a gazillion different toothbrushes. Maybe most were shit, but there was always a better idea to come about eventually.. and so the market would follow that for awhile. Rinse, repeat.. the market ever striving and redesigning for the perfect toothbrush.

his/14920774.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,147 @@
+-----
+--- 14920774
+Marco Bergamo, the "Monster of Bolzano", was an Italian Jack The Ripper as he butchered five women, most of them prostitutes, in 1980s-90s Italy, out of what was described as "extreme" sexual frustration and anger towards the fairer sex. A native of Bolzano, in the extreme north of Italy, he was born in 1966. Bergamo was an overweight, introverted child with few friends but became obsessed with knives at an early age. As a teenager he got in some minor trouble for stealing women's undergarments but was otherwise not a troublemaker or juvenile delinquent. He obtained work as a welder after high school. Bergamo was a fairly normal individual as far as co-workers could tell and gave no indication of budding psychopathy.
+
+On January 3, 1985, a 15 year old girl named Marcella Casagrande was found stabbed to death in her home. The wounds to her body appeared to be the work of someone who knew human anatomy quite well, including a knife blow to the vertebrae designed to cut into the spinal cord and paralyze the victim, making her unable to use her lower body. There were no suspects and the girl's death became a cold case. On February 26, a 40 year old prostitute named Annamaria Cipolleti was found dead in her apartment. Ms. Cipolleti was a schoolteacher by day and by night rented the small apartment for her side job. She was stabbed 19 times. Although her clothing had been removed, she wasn't raped. A couple of cigarette butts and condoms, some used and one not used, were found in the apartment. A diary was found containing the cryptic remark "Marco gone away."
+--- 14920781
+Why are men such subhumans?
+--- 14920785
+On January 7, 1992, six years after these murders, a 24 year old prostitute named Renate Rauch was found stabbed to death in an empty parking lot. Near the body was a bouquet of flowers and a note reading "Mi dispiace ma quello che ho fatto doveva essere fatto e tu lo sapevi. Arrivederci, Renate. MM." (I'm sorry, but I did what needed to be done and you knew it. Goodbye, Renate.)
+
+On March 21, an 18 year old prostitute named Renate Troger was found dead in a town square. She was stabbed 14 times and then strangled. On August 6, another 18 year old prostitute named Marika Zorzi was found by the roadside outside of Bolzano, stabbed 28 times.
+
+Bergamo was taken into custody as a suspect in Marika's death soon afterwards and made a partial confession to police. He had been caught when police stopped his car and noticed bloodstains and missing padding in the passenger seat, an identification card belonging to Marika in the trunk, and a missing rear view mirror, which turned up at the crime scene.
+
+He admitted to three of the five murders but did not acknowledge any responsibility for Annamaria Cipolleti or Renate Troger. Bergamo claimed that he killed Marika because he had a missing testicle and she refused to service him. The two got into a verbal and physical altercation after he demanded she give him his money back, so he killed her. That particular date, August 6, 1992, was significant as it was his 26th birthday and he'd decided to hire a prostitute as a birthday gift to himself.
+--- 14920793
+Psychiatric examination and interviews with Bergamo revealed that he was a loner who had never had a girlfriend outside a platonic friendship for a few months in 1990-91. He had a boiling resentment of women and decided to take his wrath out on prostitutes, the most easily accessible females. A psychiatric report noted "Bergamo hates women. He says: 'A woman is really an ignoble, selfish being, a person who uses men as a man smokes a cigarette.'" He admitted that pornography, masturbation, and women's underwear had become substitutes for actual romantic relationships. "My nightmare has been more the woman than the vagina. The woman has always scared me. This fear turned to hatred when I thought a woman had poisoned my dog. He was my only companion. So I started to hate women." Bergamo also admitted he'd had no friends in school and was awkward and lacking in self-confidence.
+
+That did not overlook the fact that Bergamo depicted himself as a victim and the women he killed had supposedly provoked him, Marcella because she refused his advances, the two prostitutes because they had made fun of him.
+
+Bergamo's trial was broadcast live on TV. His father Renato, who testified to his son's fascination with knives from an early age, later committed suicide out of shame. Marika Zorzi's mother Bertilla denounced Bergamo as a monster who "took my little girl as a birthday present." Another prostitute who'd serviced Bergamo said he would undress her but did not engage in intercourse. She claimed he offered her money for her underwear, but "I couldn't sell him those or I'd have to walk home naked."
+--- 14920801
+He was sentenced to life in prison, which included convictions for the murders of Annamaria Cipolleti and Renate Troget despite his persistent denial of having killed them, the maximum possible sentence allowable in Italy, which had abolished the death penalty all the way back in 1885. Moved around to several prisons over the years, he was granted furloughs in 2005, the news of which caused a public outcry. He was eligible for parole in 2008 but did not receive it.
+
+Bergamo died in a Milan hospital on October 17, 2017 of complications from severe bronchopneumonia.
+--- 14920809
+>>14920793
+>A psychiatric report noted "Bergamo hates women. He says: 'A woman is really an ignoble, selfish being, a person who uses men as a man smokes a cigarette.'" He admitted that pornography, masturbation, and women's underwear had become substitutes for actual romantic relationships. "My nightmare has been more the woman than the vagina. The woman has always scared me. This fear turned to hatred when I thought a woman had poisoned my dog. He was my only companion. So I started to hate women." Bergamo also admitted he'd had no friends in school and was awkward and lacking in self-confidence.
+This guy was the ultimate incel. What's more disturbing is that this website has many like him.
+--- 14920815
+Did you ever do one of these on the GSK? His is funny because he literally almost got away with it but his tiny dick got him busted
+--- 14920823
+This website would calling for genocide if some non-euro did it.
+--- 14920831
+>>14920793
+>He admitted that pornography, masturbation, and women's underwear had become substitutes for actual romantic relationships.
+
+Another trans egg taken before her time :(
+--- 14920835
+>>14920781
+It's ma'am, TERF.
+--- 14920844
+>>14920831
+>>14920835
+>Incels deflecting by bringing up trans people
+Kek he literally sounded like someone who would post on /pol/ in the daily women hate threads.
+--- 14920858
+>>14920831
+>tfw no brian eno lookalike he-gf
+--- 14920866
+>>14920844
+Someone who hates women yet crossdresses and wants to be a woman sounds like a very confused transsexual.
+--- 14920871
+>addicted to porn
+>compulsive masturbator
+>stealing women’s clothes to skin walk them
+
+Yup, textbook troon.
+
+Another day, another mentally ill trans mass killer. It just keeps happening folks.
+--- 14920874
+>>14920866
+>Someone who hates women
+Why do incels try keep pushing this meme that trans people hate women?
+>yet crossdresses and wants to be a woman sounds like a very confused transsexual.
+Take your meds schizo. He didn't crossdress. Also crossdressing doesn't make you trans.
+--- 14920880
+>>14920809
+I'm not like him.
+I don't have a dog.
+--- 14920928
+>incel troon in italy gets rejected by a hooker
+>RAPE THAT BITCH KILL HER ARGGGGGHH
+>jk rowling stands up for women’s rights
+>RAPE THAT BITCH KILL HER ARGGGGHHHH
+>lesbians say no to sex with troons
+>RAPE THAT TERF KILL HER ARGGGGHHHHH
+
+folks, I’m starting to think these trans fellas really got a problem with the ladies
+--- 14920933
+Guys… is there any connection between transgenders and women hate?
+--- 14920939
+>>14920933
+Forgot pic
+--- 14920942
+>>14920928
+>>incel troon in italy gets rejected by a hooker 
+>RAPE THAT BITCH KILL HER ARGGGGGHH
+He wasn't trans. Don't keep repeating your lies incel.
+>jk rowling stands up for women’s rights 
+>RAPE THAT BITCH KILL HER ARGGGGHHHH
+When did incels started to care about women rights? Also some murderous crazies don't define a group unlike fascist incels who have their ideologies built around oppression.
+>>lesbians say no to sex with troons 
+>RAPE THAT TERF KILL HER ARGGGGHHHHH 
+nice made up bs
+--- 14920951
+Why are transcels so violent against women? Women are soft and cuddly, did transcels not get enough loving growing up?
+--- 14920958
+Follow your leader
+--- 14920964
+Folks…. I think we need to address these unhinged, violent, women hating transcels as a community.
+
+Any trans who doesn’t decry these violent women haters is part of the problem. Silence is violence!
+--- 14920987
+It's everyday bro with the Disney Channel flow
+--- 14920998
+>nazi incel gets caught openly lying about the serial killer being trans 
+>Start spamming the shit out of the thread
+I can't breed manifesto soon?
+--- 14921009
+Why are they all like this?! From trans serial killers to armchair psychos on twitter, why does trancel violence run so deep?
+--- 14921080
+we did a thread about Hadden Clark if you're into crossdressers. that guy was fucking insane.
+--- 14921146
+>>14920951
+>Women are soft and cuddly
+stop being a simp for pussy, dude
+--- 14921343
+>>14920823
+Rightfully so, shitskins killing high value people brings cause and concern, a shitskin killing another shitskin is just a normal tuesday
+--- 14921394
+>>14921343
+You will never have a real ethnostate
+--- 14921408
+>>14920774 (OP)
+>>14920785
+you can tell this was north Italy because of all these weird surnames you don't encounter in America where everyone emigrated from the south
+--- 14921731
+>>14921394
+And you will never have a functional society that isn't bombed or economically raped by western powers. Cope and seethe shitskin
+--- 14921879
+>>14921394
+https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/search/image/7VlXoFvhDSV2m7s5UcrnrQ%3D%3D/page/1/
+drink bleach
+--- 14922672
+>>14920785
+>Bergamo was taken into custody as a suspect in Marika's death soon afterwards and made a partial confession to police. He had been caught when police stopped his car and noticed bloodstains and missing padding in the passenger seat, an identification card belonging to Marika in the trunk, and a missing rear view mirror, which turned up at the crime scene.
+i'm impressed that Italian police managed to solve a crime at all
+--- 14922732
+>>14920874
+AGPcels do hate women very often, despite desperately trying to fuck them.
+--- 14922854
+>>14922732
+femcel
+--- 14923252
+>>14922672
+cops will always haul ass when attractive young females are killed

his/14920777.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,115 @@
+-----
+--- 14920777
+>Watch Christian kino
+>Character glorifies Virgin Mary
+>Turn off flick
+--- 14920779
+protestants, everyone.
+--- 14920808
+>>14920777 (OP)
+Why do protestants find it so hard to acknowledge the mother of God. By placing Mary on such a low pedestal youre basically disrespecting God. Literally name any person in the bible and in history that was chosen for or did something as great as literally bearing God. You cant.
+--- 14920882
+>>14920808
+Cope. She’s just a normal person. Stop idolizing man.
+--- 14920887
+>>14920882
+>disagrees with the Church fathers just to own the Catholics
+--- 14921259
+>>14920887
+>Man is infallible
+>WORSHIP THESE PEOPLE BECAUSE I SAID SO THE POPE IS NEVER WRONG
+Sigh...why do Catholics worship man more than they do G_d?
+--- 14921267
+>>14921259
+God is a man made creation.
+--- 14921301
+>>14920777 (OP)
+Based post my fellow protestant. I hate Mary with every fiber of my being and there's nothing papists can do about it. Praise Pastor JimBob and all his Sunday Fundays.
+--- 14921303
+>>14920777 (OP)
+Show more respect to the mother of God.
+--- 14921318
+>>14921267
+
+the average atheist brainwashed to believe there is no miracle in simple existence, there is no beauty in the mysterious, and there is no God in the everyday. Believing the humans created God is like saying that humans invented math. It's true, we did create the system and framework, but the underlying principles that it reflects and depicts exist everywhere. Man can comprehend math, the same way that we can comprehend God, through study.
+--- 14921445
+>>14921259
+already pulled the "muh worship idolatry" card huh?
+--- 14921447
+>>14921301
+We don't hate Mary. We just don't glorify her. She was Jesus's mother. That's all. Everything else is C*tholic headcanon just like their baby baptisms.
+--- 14921449
+>>14920808
+Mary only accounts for Christ's humanity.
+She does not account for his divinity, the Father, or the Holy Spirit.
+Hence she is not the mother of God.
+--- 14921453
+>>14921267
+--- 14921456
+>>14921447
+You're wrong about the baptisms.
+
+t. Reformed
+--- 14921466
+>>14921449
+Which church father said that? Mary couldnt have just bore one part of God. Its illogical.
+--- 14921507
+Retard infighting is supposed to be funny but it's kind scary when these christkek retards have actually killed millions of people over retarded minor differences.
+--- 14921522
+>>14921466
+Mary provided the egg, God provided the seed.
+--- 14921527
+>>14921466
+
+Okay so here's the deal. Jesus isn't half divine half human, he's wholly human, and also wholly divine. The Council of Ephesus, which decided most of Christian teachings today (excluding some Orthodoxies) explains that Mary is the bearer of God, and that because Jesus and God are one, that Mary should be known as the Bearer of God. 
+
+tl;dr pretty much all of the ancient christian drama exists because of different interpretations of the idea of jesus as human and jesus as divine.
+--- 14921583
+>>14921456
+>Babies can consent to being baptized
+>Babies understand why the are being baptized
+Yeah okay.
+--- 14922286
+I think a lot of it is just a backlash against the Catholic church, honestly as a protestant I think Mary was the divine vessel for God similarly to how the Ark of the Covenant was, it's just that praying to Mary as the goddess of heaven for salvation is just as ridiculous as a jew worshiping the ark of the covenant itself and not as simply a vessel for God
+--- 14922374
+>>14920808
+>>14922286
+>As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and blessed are the breasts that nursed You!” But He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.” 
+Luke 11:27-28
+--- 14922394
+>>14921583
+>>Babies can consent to being baptized
+Unbelievably modernist. Unbelievable. "Consent" is irrelevant, the command of God is all that matters. Christians aren't baptized on the basis they understand it, they're baptized because it is the duty of those in covenant with God to receive the sign of the covenant (and to give it to their children).
+--- 14922600
+https://mubi.com/lists/catholica
+--- 14922630
+>>14921447
+>she was just the mother of God
+>That's all.
+What a soulless subhuman.
+--- 14922952
+>>14922394
+So, like, what even happens during a baptism?
+I get the the priest cast a spell on the baby, but not what exact powers it has
+--- 14923220
+>>14920808
+She's not the mother of God. She's the mother of Jesus, who is God, but she's the mother of him in his human nature, not his divine nature. God cannot have a mother.
+--- 14923267
+>>14923220
+Oh crap, I have not kept track of all the heresies enough to know if this counts as one.
+--- 14923301
+>>14923267
+This is textbook Nestorianism >>14923220
+--- 14923453
+>>14923301
+She bore Jesus, God, in her womb, but she is not the mother of God. That's not Nestorianism.
+--- 14923476
+>>14921259
+>G_d
+JUDEN!
+--- 14923481
+>>14923453
+a woman bore you in her womb but she is not your mother, on fact you are motherless. The person you call mother is just a random woman
+--- 14923507
+>>14923481
+She is Jesus' mother, but she is not the source of his deity

his/14920883.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,159 @@
+-----
+--- 14920883
+How could he win?
+--- 14920894
+>>14920883 (OP)
+By not sperging out and invading Soviet Union.
+--- 14920903
+By slowly spreading propaganda poison to other European countries and eventually becoming the Godhead of all existing fascists giving Germany a special place over the movement. I guess that wouldn't have worked with his lebensbraun ideals though.
+--- 14920905
+>>14920883 (OP)
+She was too busy fighting her internalized transphobia
+--- 14920909
+>>14920894
+*economy collapses*
+--- 14920912
+>>14920883 (OP)
+In 1950 Germany would have had 1970s tech while everyone else would still be in 1940.
+Wait literally a few years and you get an unbeatable airforce, endless synthetic oil, superheavy tanks which have no equal and can be mass produced and easily maintained, elite well armed infantry which is the equal in firepower to ten of any other infantrymen.
+--- 14920924
+>>14920912
+The Germans were on rations even before the war.
+--- 14920934
+>>14920924
+No, they had an economics miracle and were net producers, the seething Ricardians could do nothing but demand a war because otherwise Germany would continue to shut out exchangers from a market of producers.
+>but da money goyyyy
+Look, I have physical resource, you have worthless paper.
+--- 14920944
+>>14920883 (OP)
+that dumb fuck should have kept bombing london until they dug.
+--- 14920948
+>>14920912
+>In 1950 Germany would have had 1970s tech while everyone else would still be in 1940. 
+Wheeeeeeze lmaoooo
+--- 14920976
+>>14920944
+--- 14920983
+>>14920976
+--- 14920997
+In case you morons didnt know. OP is a /pol/tard shitposter who makes these threads on a daily basis just so he can ruin them and waste everybodys time.
+
+Anyone who even tried to make a constructive post is a fucking retard.
+--- 14921010
+>>14920997
+remember kids; don't do drugs.
+--- 14921034
+>>14920948
+well no one else had guided rockets, MBTs, or assault rifles, so yeah he's kinda right
+--- 14921043
+>>14920912
+>He thinks the man in high castle is a documentary
+--- 14921051
+>>14921034
+>Actually believing that Germans could engineer and meaningfully deploy that level of tech before anyone could catch up 
+Kek. I think some armchairs generals from slipper making forums knew better than highly qualified Nazi generals.
+--- 14921056
+>>14920883 (OP)
+By not fighting two/three fronts
+--- 14921059
+>>14920997
+Blow it out your ass trannychan tourist.
+--- 14921064
+>retards ITT think Nazis weren't forced to start the war like it happened
+--- 14921071
+>>14920997
+>constructive post
+>4chin
+lol, lmao even
+--- 14921081
+>>14920883 (OP)
+By not making an enemy of Jews. With Jews, you win. Without them, you lose.
+--- 14921139
+>>14920912
+>In 1950 Germany would have had 1970s tech while everyone else would still be in 1940.
+Meme opinion, the Germans were forced to push out untested, heavily flawed designs out of desperation. This gives way to the idea of the wunderwaffe that the rest of the world could only dream of; in reality, the Allies had no reason to push out their own experimental designs instead opting to rest on the weapons they could already easily mass produce to end the war.
+--- 14921147
+>>14920883 (OP)
+Based oil anon is finally back.
+--- 14921160
+>>14920883 (OP)
+With the advice of his 4chan fans
+--- 14921212
+>>14920903
+Couldn’t work, he already tried that and it inspired the Spanish Civil War. Also would cause other European countries to turn against him and want war, happened with France. France reacted badly against encroaching Fascism, they elected the commie Popular Front because of his influence.
+--- 14921302
+>>14921081
+based knower
+109-0
+keep thinking you can win goyim
+--- 14921313
+>>14920912
+>produces impractical shit the entire war 
+No, I don't believe you.
+--- 14921316
+>>14920997
+He's GDPschizo and he's a local.
+>>14921059
+>i-ive been called out!
+/pol/tranny cope
+--- 14921323
+>>14921212
+The eventual collapse of colonial empires would have ignited the threat and urgency of ending European dominance that would have lead fascist movements gaining rise and previous governments losing their credit. Soviets would also probably have been imploded and taken the spotlight for retarded brutality if there was no madman Hitler to give them common cause. They were having batshit insane things happening to them before the war caused by their own paranoia. There would be no patriotic either that would get cred to Soviets and communism
+>Inb4 colonial empire wouldnt have collapsed without WW2
+--- 14921475
+>>14920883 (OP)
+If Barbarossa was successful he would've gotten the nuke. If the Bulge was successful he would've lost in a year because the Allies were never going to relent. 
+
+He was too extreme, and like the Soviets the allegiance to the party superceded most rational decision making.
+--- 14921603
+>>14920997
+Leftist subhuman
+--- 14921856
+>>14920883 (OP)
+Allying the UK who would eventually drag in the US. By the time the war started it was already over. I have no idea how he would achieve it. Maybe wait for the soviets to inevitably invade Poland and play the part the USSR played for the allies irl.
+--- 14921873
+>>14920894
+retard
+--- 14921896
+>>14920997
+>Anyone who even tried to make a constructive post is a fucking retard.
+Left-wingers on this board are always the ones making ad hominem arguments and never citing any evidence.
+--- 14921908
+>>14920997
+>waste everybodys time.
+Everybody's already doing that by virtue of posting on this website though.
+--- 14921967
+>>14920883 (OP)
+By basically prostituting himself to Britain and France, saying that in exchange for their permission to annexe Austria and the Sudetenland (not the rest of Czechoslovakia and Poland) he would defend Europe from Communism. Then, when Stalin starts his inevitable push for the Atlantic, a coalition British/French/German force would face them together; with Britain and France handling the logistics, intelligence, R&D, and planning (all the areas where the Nazis completely shit the bed). Of course that doesn't really work, even if Hitler actually came up with the idea and believed in it - because his economic 'reforms' would have completely broken Germany long before that happened. 
+>tl;dr - make himself and Germany the bitch of the democratic powers, and it still wouldn't work because Hitler was a retarded drug addict
+--- 14922477
+>>14920883 (OP)
+Maybe if the Brits and French bombed Baku when it was under Soviet control during the time period wherein the Soviets were supply Germans with the resources they needed to wage war.
+--- 14922482
+>>14920894
+Then they were going to invade Germany.
+--- 14922485
+>>14920883 (OP)
+Wait and develop the nuke yourself.
+--- 14922492
+This will be the 8,936,731st time we've made this thread, and we've become exceedingly efficient at it
+--- 14922515
+>>14921051
+Yes, people living in the aftermath of an event will have hindsight which is naturally more informative.
+>>14921043
+>he didnt even look at the wunderwaffe memes that actually worked
+refund your wikipedia account
+--- 14922634
+>>14922515
+>he didnt even look at the wunderwaffe memes that actually worked
+Like which?
+--- 14922785
+>>14922482
+yeah but he didnt know that
+--- 14922824
+>>14921603
+>>14921896
+>muh leftists
+get a new line fags
+--- 14922882
+so as time goes on, poor countries industrializex and no longer need germanys undustrial goods so food producing countries have no need to export their food to industrialized states. germany eventually perishes because they have to import most of their food. this is labeled shrinking markets problem and many have criticized this theory as false in order to criticize hitlers plans to war with russia in order to achieve autarky. however, dont we see similar lines of thinking playing out today? as the third world industrializes , western nations have nobody to trade industry products to and so the industry has evaporated., trade defecits explodes, and now every shithole country has insane leverage over western states because we are completely reliant on them

his/14920965.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,81 @@
+-----
+--- 14920965
+https://www.floridabulldog.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Canestraro-Declaration-dated-20-July-2021.pdf
+
+So according to new declassified documents. the CIA actively allowed 9/11 to happen and fucked over the FBI investigation into the hijackers. 
+It's funny that what is basically the most important event since WW2, has very little actual serious history deep dives into it and things that should be massive stories like the declassification releases under Biden which change the entire official narrative, aren't even reported on.
+--- 14920970
+extremely anti-semitic post
+--- 14921000
+>>14920965 (OP)
+CIA compartmentalization is not necessarily a "cover up." It's pretty basic CIA shit in fact. We created the Dept of Homeland Security to try to fix this issue.
+
+tl;dr "allowed 9/11 to happen" is a fuckin stretch.
+--- 14921072
+>>14921000
+>tl;dr "allowed 9/11 to happen" is a fuckin stretch.
+https://libgen.rocks/ads.php?md5=9979a1b81d7de919a804685d2514406d
+
+The agents who actively blocked hijacker info from reaching the FBI gave like 4 different answers to 4 different committees about it, and their memories of the most important moments of their lives are... surprisingly sparse in all cases! Nobody seems to remember any of the most important meetings, or cables, or photographs, etc etc.
+
+1000% some elements in the CIA Alec station not only allowed 9/11 to happen but assisted it. Then you can add the PNAC/COG/Bush cabal stuff on top because that all makes sense too, but this shit you can say absolutely happened without a doubt. while other agencies such as the FBI were trying to 'connect the dots,' Alec station was working to disconnect them. They set up a vague paper trail to look like they did something - then they testified to the 9/11 commish alongside minders from the agency. this literally drives me insane, they took active roles in the interviews, answered questions on behalf of their subordinates, took meticulous notes to brief other agents about the questions so they could keep their stories straight... I mean at a certain point it's like yeah they fucking obviously did 9/11
+--- 14921097
+>>14921072
+who the fuck is Kevin Fenton and how did he have access to this information?
+
+anyway, you're barking up the wrong tree regarding CIA disinformation. why bother with these vague allegations of something being amiss, when we know for certain they created the lies about Iraqi WMD.
+--- 14921122
+https://www.salon.com/2002/05/07/students/
+--- 14921166
+>>14921000
+Go back to r*ddit faggot, Alec station lied through their teeth on what actually happened. 
+>>14921097
+Because theres a big difference between creating fake intel to launch an invasion vs assisting in the murder in 3000 citizens. One is scandalous, the other is treason. 9/11 conspiracies have the potential to rip down the federal security state once and for all.
+>>14921072
+Super based, I have Fentons book but havent had the time to read all of it. What do I need to really focus on when I get to it?
+--- 14921256
+>>14920965 (OP)
+>https://www.floridabulldog.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Canestraro-Declaration-dated-20-July-2021.pdf
+Wow, this is huge, the sections of CS-3 (I assume is Mark Rossini) really flesh-out the clusterfuck that happened. Are there any other new docs worth taking a look at?
+--- 14921271
+The CIA fucking over the FBI and allowing 9/11 to happen under their noses has been known for awhile.
+--- 14921310
+>>14920965 (OP)
+https://www.floridabulldog.org/2023/04/ex-fbi-agents-accuse-top-cia-fbi-officials-9-11-coverup-cia-domestic-spying/
+--- 14921480
+bump for the only good thread on /his/ right now
+--- 14921923
+>>14921166
+>the CIA lied!
+no shit retard. what are you, 17? more americans died in Iraq than NYC so I'm not sure what your point is. anyway, who the fuck is Kevin Fenton again?
+--- 14921941
+25 years
+--- 14922053
+>>14921072
+Disconnecting the Dots is a good read. It goes over all of the publicly known "intelligence failures" to the point where it's very obvious that the upper levels of international finance/intelligence (think Safari Club) knew what was coming. The recent disclosures about Bandar Bin Sultan, AKA Bandar Bush, only serve to reinforce the ideas presented in the book.
+--- 14922108
+https://archive.org/details/ff-full-doc-720p
+super long, but probably the single most indepth documentary looking at Al Qaeda and it's figures and the questionable role they played in 9/11.
+--- 14922164
+>>14921000
+So for 2 years, the CIA basically just went full fucking retard and completely ignored basically everyone telling them about the hijackers, their planned attacks, including German and Israeli Intelligence who outright had infiltrated the cells of the hijackers.
+So why does the CIA even exist then? If they are that actually retarded, why aren't all involved in Alec Station in jail for sheer unfathomable incompetence?
+--- 14922326
+>>14922164
+>So for 2 years, the CIA basically just went full fucking retard and completely ignored basically everyone telling them about the hijackers, their planned attacks, including German and Israeli Intelligence who outright had infiltrated the cells of the hijackers.
+It’s pretty standard history that agency independence and not working together is what led to the attacks happening. Basically different agencies had different pieces of the puzzle, but weren’t able to place it all together since they operated on their own and a rivalry between them was very real. Another factor was the end of the Cold War had led to the CIA being gutted drastically.
+
+It’s a complete stretch to claim that the CIA knew that Al-Qaeda hijackers were going to fly planes into the World Trade Center on September 11, and just allowed it to happen. 
+
+If you want a good book that goes into this check out The Hunt for KSM.
+--- 14922790
+25 year rule
+--- 14923609
+>>14922164
+>So why does the CIA even exist then?
+Fucking up countries so that rich fags in USA keep the money going.
+Also, drugs. Lots of drugs.
+
+Some durkas killing americas wouldn't worry CIA, especially if in the end it would facilitate the war. Hell, Operation Northwoods is declassified and that shit was greenlit all the way up to the President.
+
+Now, if it were some washed up commies trying to bitch about outsourcing, low salary/wage theft or similar, then CIA would fucking go nuclear on their ass.

his/14921045.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,154 @@
+-----
+--- 14921045
+vghhhh… I just want to RETVRN to the trve trad past… **gets reincarnated as a German peasant that gets force fed boiling shit by Swedes in an attempt to get my wife to reveal where I hid food for my starving children**
+--- 14921065
+>>14921045 (OP)
+Honestly sounds better than the current situation.
+--- 14921088
+>>14921045 (OP)
+Good times.
+--- 14921117
+Why are whites such fucking keks lmao. They did all this horrible shit to each other and just forgot about it because some psuedo-science practitioners decided to pile them all together as "whites". Like how did they not want vengeance like Chinese and Koreans do with Japanese? This cuckery is only comparable in some Muslim races who think their conquerors did them a favour by raping them.
+--- 14921143
+>>14921045 (OP)
+>>14921088
+>>14921117
+Why are norther/western Europeans the most degenerate and promiscuous people in the world?
+--- 14921151
+>>14921117
+Personally I think its funny when raycists try to claim whites are inherently less violent or something when they were just as big genocide monkeys as anyone else up until Europe got destroyed 3 times
+
+I say this as someone who is opposed to significant immigration and am pro Western cultural conservation btw
+--- 14921158
+>>14921117
+Those things aren't connected, retard.
+Whites were considered a race long before WW2, which is what stopped white infighting, not "pseudo-scientists" (are we denying the Europid skeletal structure now?)
+--- 14921182
+>>14921158
+>Those things aren't connected, retard. 
+They are 
+>Whites were considered a race long before WW2
+When did i say they weren't?
+>which is what stopped white infighting, not "pseudo-scientists" (are we denying the Europid skeletal structure now?)
+Ignoring that "skull measuring is scientific" for while,how does that make whites not massive "cucks"? So just because you arbitrarily decided that your skull is somewhat similar to a guy a who raped your wife and pillage your village will make way to zero animosity? Do you think that Anglos didn't believe that Vikings were very similar to them in physical appearance? Also it didn't stop the "infighting" considering how bad of the shitshow Napoleonic wars and two world wars was.
+--- 14921203
+>>14921182
+What? 
+>They did all this horrible shit to each other and just forgot about it because some psuedo-science practitioners decided to pile them all together as "whites".
+>forgot about it just because
+I'm saying they weren't connected because the death and destruction of WW2 caused them to stop infighting rather than a racial grouping, most of that is just from focusing on similarities like shared history to just be more positive
+--- 14921238
+>>14921203
+You keep missing my point. Why do they not hate each other like Japanese and Chinese do? Even if I was to prefer peace over war I wouldn't forgive a guy who mercilessly brutalised my people just because we share some similarities. Also the "white" grouping is the cornerstone of "white" peace. WW1 had no racial undertones while WW2 had everyone else ganging up on one nation because it suggested that whites are unequal. I am sure a German thinks of a Swede as just a brother from another mother instead of the brutal Soldiery they were.Sounds like major brainwashing has happened at some point to make everyone buddy-buddy.
+--- 14921246
+>>14921065
+Fpbp
+--- 14921249
+>>14921088
+Why are the finns little dwarf slaves kek
+--- 14921254
+>>14921158
+>Whites were considered a race long before WW2
+By "long", you mean like 40 years right?
+--- 14921276
+>>14921238
+I mean the racial aspect didn't bother the US or the UK, or the Soviets for that matter, it was expanding east and getting too much "Lebensraum". 
+Same reason the UK cucked the Russians when they were about to take back Constantinople. 
+The peace is just indicative of the general malaise of modern Europeans, their ancestors would've killed all the immigrants after the raping gang stuff too but they are just too used to a developed comfy world where war isn't necessary to them, Europeans are mostly liberal and don't see identify heavily as "white"
+--- 14921281
+>>14921254
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790
+Probably before this too, people have had eyes for even longer
+--- 14921285
+>>14921276
+Still missing the point like genuine retard. Tell me why forgiving people you brutalised your people so badly not fucking cucked.
+--- 14921291
+>>14921285
+European culture is based around Christian forgiveness, pretty bold to completely negate yourself and call someone else a retard, retard
+--- 14921331
+>>14921291
+Thanks for admitting that you guys are massive keks
+--- 14921342
+>>14921045 (OP)
+Whats really unbeliveable about this shit is that vikings really believed that women would be willing to sacrifice food for some replaceable man. Women dont care about men, only for their resources.
+--- 14921349
+>>14921331
+Lmao tf the Koreans gonna do to Japan anyway, don't they all mix with each other these days?
+--- 14921360
+>>14921331
+And I worked with a filipino who was a simp for Japanese stuff, many cases, the resentment is mostly just a meme for all intents and purposes
+And because the Japanese are colossal assholes who never apologized
+--- 14921361
+>>14921342
+>"Viking"
+>Muh women bad 
+Why do we still pretend that people with actual knowledge of history or interest in it browse /his/? This is just a poltard colony at this point.
+--- 14921375
+>>14921361
+Its not that theyre bad. Its just basic survival. Men are expendable. If he dies just get a new husband. Thats how humans are built.
+--- 14921376
+>>14921349
+
+No. Total Nippon death. Culturally the Han are superior to every other race in East Asia. 
+
+Koreans are pretty much half Japanese due to the raping.
+--- 14921392
+>>14921375
+Couldn't the same logic apply to women unless they are pregnant?
+--- 14921393
+>>14921360
+Pinoys are dirt poor thirdies. They don't have resources to know how horrible Japanese were to them. Most people also live in a bubble of heckin wholesome Nips because Nips are extremely xenophobic to the point of social media isolationism. I don't know a single Non-nip asian who doesn't hate their guts after learning their history and interacting with nips.
+>>14921376
+>Koreans are pretty much half Japanese due to the raping.
+It's more proper to say that japanese are 90 percent Korean because the founding fathers of Japan were Yayoi people from Korea.
+--- 14921421
+>>14921342
+What do you mean? It worked
+
+Do you think these Swede monkeys did this just because? No they were starving camp followers/mercenaries trying to get a meal and brutalizing people worked
+--- 14921448
+>>14921393
+
+Good point. Modern day Japanese culture runs rampant with degeneracy. Most Westerners look at Japan and think "zomg!! anime!!!" while forgetting the fact that the Japanese are a race of twisted, cowardly deplorables, revisionist history and western apologists. Their entire culture and religion was stolen from Han Chinese traditions first. Everything Japan is today was stolen from other cultures. 
+
+Total Nippon Death.
+--- 14921452
+>>14921421
+Its just bizarre to me that a woman would give up food for a man. You rarely see that act of compassion and selflessness in today's world.
+--- 14921594
+>>14921452
+sad pepe :(
+--- 14921621
+>>14921452
+It’s not necessarily that she gave up the food “for her man”. Her man was already fucking dead. 
+
+She gave up the food because she witnessed the father of her children having his stomach distended and then burst by some Swedish demon’s shit. Witnessing this would absolutely shatter her mind and make her pliable to further threats against her or her children.
+--- 14921650
+>>14921621
+I see. When you put it like that it makes more sense. To me it seems like boiling shit wouldnt kill someone quickly for that to happen though unless they drowns because they couldnt breathe.
+--- 14921658
+>>14921045 (OP)
+>Germans being fed shit during 30 years
+I course I want to come back to this
+--- 14921671
+>>14921143
+lol
+--- 14921684
+>>14921143
+That would be black people, anon
+--- 14921708
+>>14921045 (OP)
+>by Swedes
+The schwedentrunk torture was largely done by German mercenaries by contemporary accounts.
+--- 14921793
+Imagine the smell
+--- 14921810
+I wish I was force fed boiling cute swede loli shit
+--- 14921827
+>>14921708
+Mostly but not entirely. There were some Swedish who did it and you get reincarnated as their victim.
+
+Up until then though I suppose your life might be alright if somewhat backbreaking
+--- 14922489
+>>14921045 (OP)
+Wait did this unironically happend?i thought shit eating was just a meme

his/14921047.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
+-----
+--- 14921047
+How come these people apparently invented Halloween but England did not?
+--- 14921050
+By these people I mean Ireland and Scotland.
+
+Why is the tradition attributed to both those countries but not England?
+--- 14921053
+>>14921047 (OP)
+Im surrounded by retards.
+--- 14921405
+>>14921053
+?
+--- 14922329
+>>14921050
+romans/vikings
+--- 14922417
+>>14921050
+Halloween wasn't really a big thing in most of England until modern times. English folk beliefs traditionally more associates Christmas with ghostly phenomena and the return of the dead. Telling ghost stories and leaving offerings for dead relatives used to be something people in England did on Christmas Eve. This is where Dickens got the idea for a Christmas Carol from. 
+
+Ultimately, Christmas/Yule and Halloween are connected, but reflect how the Celtic and Germanic calendars are staggered. For the Celts, the important days are the so-called cross-quarter days at the start of November, February, May and August, whereas in Germanic cultures the solstices and equinoxes have prominence. Part of this reflects climatic differences between the Atlantic seaboard and north-central Europe. England traditionally has a mix of the two calendars in terms of festival dates. So for example the English celebrate May Day on the same day as the Irish Bealtaine, but it has a lot of the same Germanic customs you see associated with Midsummer in Scandinavia, like maypoles.
+--- 14923183
+>>14921047 (OP)
+Halloween is an American holiday of recent vintage. No colonist celebrated Halloween.

his/14921089.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,55 @@
+-----
+--- 14921089
+>you will never explore the world of the 13th century
+>you will never be Marco Polo
+>you will never be the Pope's and then the Great Khan's top guy going on missions all over the world
+Why even live?
+--- 14921133
+>>14921089 (OP)
+>13th century
+>siege of bagdag, Muhammad bloodline forever lost
+>end of Islamic golden age
+>atrocities by the millions
+>Kiev rus
+>They just got all that fucking territory
+>Raped, pillaged, and conquered
+>Eastern/Central Europe Ravaged
+>Miracle from the devil about the khan dieing made them go >back before they could rid history of HRE.
+>Northern EUROS (europeans) start steal moorish knowledge and build stuff beyond mud huts and cave dewlings.
+
+WORST CENTURY EVER
+--- 14921189
+>>14921133
+All kino. Everything that happened in the 13th century was kino.
+--- 14921607
+VGHHH
+--- 14921705
+>>14921607
+What could have been...
+--- 14922626
+>>14921089 (OP)
+>Vivaldi bros set out into the unknown to die a painful death at sea.
+Glorious.
+--- 14922646
+>>14921189
+Where is this from?
+--- 14923165
+>>14921607
+I honestly wonder what the post-classic maya thought about being a civilizational rump. If they even thought they were one.
+--- 14923174
+>>14922626
+Fuck I forgot the Frankokratia happens in this century. That was good.
+--- 14923214
+>>14923165
+Mayapan was very arguably the single largest and most powerful Maya state that ever existed, so from their perspective I doubt they thought that.
+--- 14923219
+>>14923214
+>>14923165
+That being said Mayapan as a city wasn't as big as the largest Classic or maybe even Preclassic Maya cities AFAIK
+--- 14923230
+>>14921089 (OP)
+>tfw will never ride across the steppe on horseback with the Mongol horde at its peak
+Why even live. It really is the most underrated point in human history.
+--- 14923391
+>>14923230
+You'd be paying taxes to them if anything. I'd rather larp as a crusader.

his/14921132.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,26 @@
+-----
+--- 14921132
+I wonder how tight the grip on New England would be if the English Civil War never happened. 
+Look at Brazil, they had the tightest grip on their economy's neck from the start, the Portuguese only cared about giving all the land to the Crown's friends instead of democratizing the land in small farms, and also barred any trade with foreigners. No wonder Brazil is a shithole.
+--- 14922556
+>>14921132 (OP)
+New England had already started to be settled by Puritans with the arrival of the Pilgrims in 1620, who were very independent, and their independent nature stayed onward. I'm pretty sure the war impeded settlement of New England because some went back to England to fight in what they considered a holy war, and there would be less immigration to the colonies by those fleeing religious persecution when the roundheads won, so it might have ended up where the colonies became even more independent from having more dissenting people.
+--- 14922598
+Fucking moortuguese faggots. Thanks for the language, religion and architecture tho.
+--- 14922639
+the English Civil War drained New England's manpower but otherwise it was a victory for us, we got to go home and run old England instead and it didn't really mess with our administration domestically. Restoration did but not that much, had to not shelter regicides and stop hanging Quakers, but Charles II didn't mess with the colonial charters that much.
+What really threatened colonial autonomy was James II and his Dominion of New England, and things could've been gotten really bad if not for the Glorious Revolution.
+--- 14922821
+>>14921132 (OP)
+>games or anime about British Civil War
+Kino…
+--- 14922869
+>>14922598
+I don't know, not a big fan of med architecture.
+--- 14923043
+>>14921132 (OP)
+ Super tight. 
+the Massachusetts bay company declared itself as independent from the corporate body of the state so in the latter attempt to reunify the colony would have been imo an English 'Civil war'.
+--- 14923061
+>>14921132 (OP)
+the stony soil of New England didn't make it as suited to cash crop bonanzas as did Brazil. even if England had its shit together it wouldn't have mattered much, their land wasn't interesting for large landowners, smallholding farmers are the only thing that really makes sense. the only natural resources to speak of were its timberfields, but that was simply not enough to spur the interest of large landholders.

his/14921252.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,12 @@
+-----
+--- 14921252
+Work gives you life.
+--- 14922192
+>>14921252 (OP)
+It takes your hair
+
+Verification is not required.
+--- 14923368
+Work sets you free.
+--- 14923378
+Work is free time.

his/14921464.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,24 @@
+-----
+--- 14921464
+I often see people say that God doesn’t reveal himself or perform miracles because it would violate free will, but didn’t Jesus perform miracles in front of people? Didn’t God show himself to various prophets? Did those people not have free will? Judas surely saw Jesus perform miracles, so did he not have free will?
+--- 14921471
+>I often see people say that God doesn’t reveal himself or perform miracles because it would violate free will
+This argument is horrendous. By that logic claiming that God exists and it's a hell/heaven situation violates free will.
+--- 14922109
+God doesn't reveal himself or perform miracles when he doesn't want to, simple as.
+--- 14922136
+>>14922109
+This. But the more comprehensive answer is that God sends miracles to confirm His word, when the guy claiming to be a prophet of God can call fire out of heaven by praying for it, only the most insane would doubt it. So the reason there's no miracles today is because there is no further revelation till the day the Lord returns.
+--- 14922140
+>A week later his disciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were shut, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.” Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here and see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it in my side. Do not doubt but believe.” Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have come to believe."
+--- 14922727
+>>14922109
+So you believe that people who make the “God doesn’t show himself or do miracles because that would take people’s free will away” are misguided?
+--- 14923280
+>>14921464 (OP)
+>I often see people say that God doesn’t reveal himself or perform miracles because it would violate free will
+I have never heard any Christian say that miracles violate people's free will, it's completelly absurd since skeptics often like to say "seeing is believing" but in reality many of them like Dawkins would refuse to believe even if a miracle was performed in front of them, and by their on admission they'd just believe that they must be suffering from some kind of hallucination.
+--- 14923651
+>>14922136
+>when the guy claiming to be a prophet of God can call fire out of heaven by praying for it, only the most insane would doubt it
+how you rule out the possibility that the guy is a wizard?

his/14921524.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,46 @@
+-----
+--- 14921524
+in the history of european invasions and infighting, the men of the conquering nation would usually get rid of most of the men and take the women, but what about the submissive men of the conquered? what would happen to a submissive/femboyish man in this type of situation?
+--- 14921611
+yjk
+--- 14922099
+they would be killed with the rest of the men or sold into slavery
+--- 14922114
+>>14921524 (OP)
+Most men are mentally healthy so they would take no notice of the perverse males and treat them as the rest.
+--- 14922123
+>>14921524 (OP)
+Hear me out, entire harems of femboy concubines.
+--- 14922128
+>>14921524 (OP)
+They got killed too except cowering in hiding rather than dying on their feet with a weapon in their hand. Pathetic.
+--- 14922170
+>>14921524 (OP)
+>the men of the conquering nation would usually get rid of most of the men
+This stops happening by the end of the BA. New lineages come in but old ones stop getting completely eradicated.
+The total impact looks greater than the immediate because high status people have greater reproductive advantage which is maintained for at least a few generations.
+--- 14922180
+>>14922123
+Imagine having your harem of female concubines sodomize all of the femboy concubines until they find the best and sluttiest one and hold him down as you fuck him in the ass while the rest of the female concubines jerk off your femboys and toy with their buttholes to ready them for your fat conquering dick
+
+wouldn't that be really funny haha?
+--- 14922185
+>>14922128
+Do you think the conquerers ever gang raped a cute boy before cutting his head off?
+--- 14922981
+>>14922185
+Absolutely, and it was super awesome.
+--- 14922999
+>>14921524 (OP)
+>in the history of european invasions and infighting, the men of the conquering nation would usually get rid of most of the men
+
+Nigger they mostly recruited the surviving men into the army and cut them into the take so they'd stop rebelling.
+
+Ancient Krautoids straight up give you lands and titles so you'd side with their Warlord instead of the other guy..
+--- 14923660
+>>14921524 (OP)
+Slavery.
+--- 14923676
+>>14921524 (OP)
+>the men of the conquering nation would usually get rid of most of the men and take the women
+that didn't happen though

his/14921525.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,230 @@
+-----
+--- 14921525
+>be an italian neo fascist in the 1970s
+>you yearn for the old days
+>think.exe
+>you come up with an intricate plan for a coup 
+>you gain supporters
+>the government finds out
+>your supporters run away
+>you lose hope and suspend the coup
+--- 14921541
+>>14921525 (OP)
+>Worst coup attempt ever?
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Mishima#Coup_attempt_and_ritual_suicide
+--- 14921553
+>>14921525 (OP)
+>political fascism post WWII
+Why? There’s no traumatized Great War veterans to recruit from. Was this a GLADIO psyop?
+--- 14921601
+>>14921541
+>His speech was intended to inspire a coup d'état to restore the power of the emperor. He succeeded only in irritating the soldiers, and was heckled, with jeers and the noise of helicopters drowning out some parts of his speech.
+I'd kill myself too.
+>>14921553
+Are GLADIO shenanigans typically incompetent?
+--- 14921604
+>>14921525 (OP)
+The recent Peruvian president attempting a coup was worse. He didn’t even have supporters
+--- 14921605
+>>14921553
+Yeah probably, he was supported by the CIA
+--- 14921613
+>>14921605
+Don't forget the P2 masonic scum
+--- 14921622
+>>14921541
+No wonder incels salivate over this fag so much, literally got bullied so hard over his shitty coup attempt that he sudoku’d
+--- 14921634
+>>14921604
+>try to dissolve congress
+>get impeached instead
+>on the same day
+wooooooow bugged coup mechanics
+--- 14921638
+>>14921634
+That was straigh up ridiculous
+--- 14921641
+>>14921622
+>famous author who died for his cause
+
+More than you'll ever accomplish
+--- 14921645
+>>14921525 (OP)
+>>14921541
+Both wrong
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_German_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_plot
+--- 14921651
+>>14921645
+Oh i definetely forgot about that one
+--- 14921662
+>>14921525 (OP)
+Whatever trump tards did on January 6th.
+>>14921541
+>>14921622
+Dying was literally the part of his plan if he didn't succeed. Everything he had ever written had some yearning for suicide.He was past the age he wanted to live because he was horrendously gay and obsessed with aesthetics. The "coup attempt" was nothing just something he tried just in case it might work by sheer luck. Basically he didn't kill himself out of shame and probably never ever believed it would work.
+--- 14921670
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1991_Soviet_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat_attempt#
+Rate
+--- 14921686
+>>14921662
+Well at least they actually tried to do something
+--- 14921691
+>>14921670
+This one is better
+--- 14921723
+>>14921525 (OP)
+There are so many harebrained coup attempts it's hard to pick. Operation Gideon in Venezuela a few years ago was funny since it was just a group of mercs who got stopped by fishermen.
+--- 14921724
+>>14921553
+I'm sure duh See-Eye-Hay was very interested in organizing a coup d'etat against their main puppet party while at the same time informing the authorities of it and dismantling the only real governamental ally BJV had in the Greek Junta in favour of social democrats of questionable loyalty (and communist sympathies) through psyops and giving permission to Turkey to ethnically cleanse the Greeks in NC.
+--- 14921737
+>>14921541
+Was going to post this. Mishima is a good writer, but he must've known deep down it wasn't a coup so much as a way to kill himself in the most prettyboy way possible. The JSDF didn't even instigate anything against him (i.e no one tried to shoot him or even arrest him), he just seppuku'd like it was nothing. And even then Mishima couldn't end his own life properly!
+
+>Mishima then committed seppuku, a form of ritual suicide by disembowelment associated with the samurai. Morita had been assigned to serve as Mishima's second (kaishakunin), cutting off his head with a sword at the end of the ritual to spare him unnecessary pain. However, Morita proved unable to complete his task, and after three failed attempts to sever Mishima's head, Koga had to step in and complete the task
+--- 14921759
+>>14921737
+So it was just a suicide?
+--- 14921777
+>>14921759
+As another anon posted earlier, suicidal thoughts and inspirations had been his companion for years before the attempt, the incident was him finally following through on his desires. Still, getting heckled by the crowd he spoke to probably wasn't a part of his plan.
+--- 14921782
+>>14921759
+He legitimately thought he was going to inspire a one-man revolution to sweep through the ranks of the JSDF to cast off the American-written constitution and restore the Japanese Empire through the powers of charisma and ideology!
+--- 14921799
+>>14921777
+>Still, getting heckled by the crowd he spoke to probably wasn't a part of his plan.
+I don't think he expected anything to be honest. He went there and did it.
+>>14921782
+It's funny to pretend that it happened like this but in reality it was just a guy who didn't want to be an ugly old frail man.He killed himself before his physical decline set in so as not rot. You atleast would have seen that interview of him talking about how dying like warrior wasn't an option these days. He was giga homo basically who hated ugliness.
+--- 14921843
+>>14921799
+If he truly wanted dignity he would've offed himself quietly with plenty of preparation for those who knew him instead of trying to start le ebin revolution :DDDDDD and being a RuPaul-tier drama queen when people laugh at him
+--- 14921855
+>>14921645
+>eurotrash political movement
+>have to call them burgers because theyre as retarded as americans
+--- 14921866
+>>14921843
+Nope, quiet suicides are the way of women
+
+men do it loudly in public
+
+Cope more tranny
+--- 14921878
+>>14921843
+>If he truly wanted dignity he would've offed himself quietly with plenty of preparation for those who knew him instead of trying to start le ebin revolution :DDDDDD 
+I guess he thought it was worth a shot. Not like he had anything to lose. Seeing imperial Japan having comeback probably would have given him some purpose to live to an old age and even better if it was to die in some war. He was also opposite of your typical nerd intellectual but very well versed in kendo,a body builder and even a part of Japanese military. He even piloted a fighter jet.
+>being a RuPaul-tier drama queen when people laugh at him
+He didn't seem much bothered if you actually look at the event. He just urged them strongly for a while while people jeered at him then he went back into the building and committed ritual suicide.
+--- 14921884
+>>14921525 (OP)
+>>14921541
+I feel that a coup is like a souffle. Either it works perfectly or, more likely, it fails spectacularly. There's no middle ground. There's plenty of terrible failed coups to look at.
+--- 14921912
+>>14921884
+Not true since some coups, most notably the Spanish coup of 1936, result in civil wars.
+--- 14922088
+>>14921724
+>Avanguardia Nazionale took a leading role in the abortive coup attempt by Junio Valerio Borghese the following year.[4]
+
+>Avanguardia Nazionale organized the assassination of Italian magistrate Vittorio Occorsio, employing arms supplied by the CIA via its contacts in Francoist Spain.
+--- 14922100
+>>14921541
+Why do people think this was a serious coup attempt and not just an artistic statement?
+It's because they've never read anything this man wrote
+--- 14922107
+>>14921884
+Biden won.
+--- 14922202
+>>14922088
+>employing arms supplied by the CIA via its contacts in Francoist Spain.
+Literal equivalent of
+>source: my ass
+The CIA was too busy funding the ETA to kill Franco's successor. Italian Wiki (that den of communists) doesn't mention any CIA activity either. Francoist Spain was more than happy to help AN (and JVB) by itself. It doesn't make sense for the CIA to fund black terrorism in the first place, especially when the main objective was weakening the PCI, as if that party didn't live off its myth as the """main antifascist""" force. Nor does it make sense for the CIA to finance a group of communists to kill a prime minister who was singlehandedly tardwranging the PCI into American subservience. The entire Gladio narration is ruined without repair and the main communist narration about Piazza Fontana doesn't make sense, especially considering recent findings.
+In short: total communist boomer death.
+--- 14922213
+>>14921553
+>Great War veterans
+They were all like 50 by then.
+--- 14922221
+>>14921553
+There were WW2 veterans (especially those of the RSI) and their family though. The MSI was a thing you know.
+--- 14922272
+>>14921645
+That‘s not a real coup. That‘s just the Greens arresting our equivalent of q-anon boomers. They were too buffoonish to be a real threat. Same thing happened a few years earlier, where they tried to turn an anti-corona measure protest into our equivalent of january 6. They pretended protestors wanted to storm the Reichstag. And storm is a scary word in germany, because of world war 2.
+--- 14922283
+>>14921866
+SEAmoneky fetishizes a gay Japanese daddy. Pottery
+--- 14922294
+>>14922272
+Yeah, I read a little bit about it and the Reichsbürgers look like our Q types but even less effective than them. Leave it to German schizos to not even try the thing and then patiently sit around and wait for a week after the police show up and tell them, "ja, so vee vill arrest you in a veek, so pleaze do not leave, okay zee you in a veek." 
+
+How would they even storm the Reichstag? They'd probably walk up and knock on the door and then ask to be let in, and then told no, so they'd stand around and then go home.
+--- 14922297
+>>14922107
+he bought the "election"
+--- 14922483
+>>14921866
+Hitler confirmed for a tranny
+--- 14922551
+>>14921641
+>die for a cause
+Patton’s guide to wining wars applies to other causes too
+--- 14922570
+he did it to sell books lmao, set his family up for life
+no stunt in history has ever attained more free publicity
+you would have never heard of him if he hadn't
+--- 14922601
+I give a honorable mention to the August coup in which the old guard who tried to save the USSR proved so inept that they failed to overturn Gorbachev, made Yeltsin a national hero and doomed the USSR forever.
+--- 14922745
+>>14922272
+>>14922294
+They're more like sovereign citizens than Q boomers.
+--- 14922758
+>>14921541
+>ultranationalist
+>also a raging faggot
+who writes this shit
+--- 14922763
+>>14921525 (OP)
+>be a cabal of billionairs upset by FDR's tax hikes
+>plan to replace him with a fascist junta
+>look for a military leader to lead the coup
+>pick an outspoken anti-fasisct and supporter of FDR
+>he reports it all to the authorities
+--- 14922831
+>>14921525 (OP)
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Red_Dog
+
+Around 9 Neo-Nazis planned to coup the government of Dominica and start the 4th reich in the process. Dominica is country of 72000 people, mostly of African ancestry btw.
+
+So they got some guns, ammo and Nazi flags, went to a boat captain pretending to be CIA agents and asked him to transport them to Dominica. Instead the captain called the ATF who arrested the group the next day when they tried to get on the boat.
+--- 14923162
+>>14922831
+>In February 1981, the captain and crew backed out. Perdue then approached a local boat captain and Vietnam War veteran, Michael S. Howell. Perdue said that the Central Intelligence Agency needed his boat for a covert operation. Howell then contacted the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF). On April 25, John was arrested in Dominica. When Perdue learned of the arrest and that their plans were no longer secret, he insisted that the mission should continue. On April 27, the group, including three ATF agents, met at the predetermined location, loaded the van and proceeded to the marina. Local police were waiting for them at the marina. 
+lol
+--- 14923182
+>>14921723
+Why does this keep happening in Venezuela, Cuba tried the same shit in the 60s and got stopped by some villagers
+--- 14923200
+>>14922601
+Holy mother of kino, that picture
+--- 14923210
+>>14922831
+It's not like those 8 guys were planning to overthrow the government by themselves, they were trying to join preexisting plotters including the head of the Dominican military.
+--- 14923241
+>>14922831
+>>14923210
+>pretending
+something glows about the whole thing, I highly doubt a bunch of neo-nazi thugs got in touch with Dominica's ex-PM of their own accord, and then just so happened to found Stormfront not long after getting released from prison
+--- 14923546
+>>14921525 (OP)
+in france, there was a guy attempting a coup from some island in Oceania, the civil servants found out and now they detain him in their prison
+--- 14923549
+also two french idiots wanted to do a coup in madagascar kek
+https://www.lemonde.fr/afrique/article/2022/08/27/coup-d-etat-presume-a-madagascar-condamnation-confirmee-aux-travaux-forces-pour-deux-francais_6139187_3212.html
+--- 14923574
+>>14921601
+>Are GLADIO shenanigans typically incompetent?
+The Brabant killers were pretty competent.

his/14921556.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,34 @@
+-----
+--- 14921556
+Christians be like
+>the church totally represents what Jesus thought 2,000 years ago! 2,000 of perfect tradition! 
+Yeah, right, I believe it.
+--- 14921719
+>>14921556 (OP)
+>Yeah, right, I believe it.
+What do you actually believe?
+Not a sarcastic quip, your actual belief
+--- 14922517
+>>14921719
+>What do you actually believe?
+That’s unfair anon, you can’t just ask OP what he believes that opens OPs ideas to criticism. Having beliefs is hard because they can be challenged, tearing other people down as a way to boost yourself up while offering nothing of value in its place is the only way to go.
+--- 14922581
+>>14922517
+Together we have exposed the OP.
+Mission accomplished
+--- 14922599
+>>14921556 (OP)
+t.homo-prottie who can't into church fathers
+--- 14922637
+>>14922581
+--- 14922693
+>>14922517
+He's not defined by what he isn't. A complete reactionary. Like all antichrist fits on this site.
+--- 14922698
+>>14922693
+he is defined*
+bleh
+In any case, I'd be happy to talk comparitive religion and religious history, but not when the OP's always so butthurt.
+--- 14923680
+>>14921556 (OP)
+How many Catholic bishops "kissed" Emperor Constantine's ass? How many "christian" TV ministers are millionaires?

his/14921578.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,107 @@
+-----
+--- 14921578
+>4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
+
+>5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me
+Catholic bros I don't feel so good, I thought the pope said it was ok to bow down to graven images. Should I just stop reading my Bible and just let the church tell me how to think?
+--- 14921635
+The bible is always right
+Except when it disagrees with the pope, then it's wrong
+The pope is always right
+Except when he disagrees with me, then he's wrong
+--- 14921711
+>>14921578 (OP)
+So you have a problem with it being a statue of Mary.
+What if it was a statue of Jesus Christ?
+--- 14921720
+>>14921711
+Prohibited by Deuteronomy 4:15-19
+--- 14921775
+>>14921635
+This chart is pure strawman even by tradcath standards. If you want to remake the meme
+>they get a lot angrier about Luther and Calvin (roughly in that order)
+>there aren't many tradcaths sympathizing with Nazis, they're usually more into Salazar's Portugal, Mussolini's Italy, or Napoleon's France for the "vgh no degenarcy paradise"
+>replace MLK with Pope John XXIII or Pope Paul VI (the Vatican II guys)
+--- 14921778
+>>14921578 (OP)
+>>14921635
+>>14921711
+>>14921720
+>4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above,
+Oh wait....
+--- 14921797
+>>14921778
+>He compares the literal Ark that God commanded to build to some manmade pagan statues
+--- 14921801
+>>14921797
+So it is okay to make images of heavenly beings under the correct context.....
+
+I see.....
+--- 14921806
+>>14921797
+So was the ARK a Likeness of anything that is heaven above?
+Or is it not?
+--- 14921808
+>>14921797
+>o build to some manmade pagan statues
+The stautes of the angels were also manmade, what, you think God himself made the ark?
+--- 14921815
+>WORSHIP. THE. FRIGGIN. AIR. IN. THE . FRIGGIN. BARN.
+--- 14921817
+>>14921815
+Why is it so hard to not worship pictures and statues?
+--- 14921820
+>>14921817
+Why do semites hate images so much?
+--- 14921822
+>>14921815
+>>14921817
+Pr*testants are proto-Muslims. I know this to be true.
+--- 14921844
+Reminder that letters themselves are graven images, and we should ignore autists who freak out over statues and pictures.
+--- 14921845
+>>14921822
+Not all Protestants are Calvinists you know
+--- 14921852
+>>14921845
+All pr*tesants are already on their way to being Muslims, C*lvinists in particular are just one step away from reciting the shahada though.
+--- 14922026
+>>14921844
+mental gymnastics
+--- 14922084
+>>14921844
+Who bows down to letters?
+--- 14922138
+>>14921775
+YWNBAW
+--- 14923111
+>>14921815
+Worship the Lord your God.
+--- 14923116
+>>14921852
+meds now
+--- 14923127
+>>14921711
+In all seriousness. Even crosses worried me, but that is a fault in myself. The Pharisees drew lines and stayed far on the other side instead of worrying about the heart.
+--- 14923138
+>>14921578 (OP)
+This is the old covenant. Only Jews and Muslims hold on to it so quickly. 
+God sanctified the material with the incarnation of Christ.
+>He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature-Colossians 1:15
+Try to keep up. Christians are a people of a New Covenant. The fullness of God's revelation. Not a partial one.
+--- 14923154
+>>14923138
+Where does the New Testament say it's ok to sin?
+--- 14923627
+>>14923154
+Jesus died for your sins, and now you are under the new covenent. That means all those eternal words God spoke no longer apply or something and you can do whatever you want, as long as you belieeeeeve in jeeesus!!
+
+wanna eat pork? Go ahead, wanna break teh sabbath? go ahead jesus is ur sabbath or something. wanna do pagan tree idolatry called christmas? go ahead, wanna do whatever u want, DO IT. we are under new magical covenent where you can do whatever the hell you want
+--- 14923634
+>>14921578 (OP)
+That's only for the Jew.
+--- 14923657
+>>14921578 (OP)
+>people still arguing over a 3000 years old desert religion
+
+When will it end?

his/14921591.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,61 @@
+-----
+--- 14921591
+Everyone always lines up either for or against Japan, but as I see it, the Japanese deserve both praise and condemnation.
+
+Their rule in Taiwan and especially Korea wasn't remotely as bad as is often made out: Korea before Japanese rule really was a dreadfully backward, awful place run by imbeciles and tyrants of the worst sort, and some of their ideas when it came to Manchuria were actually quite interesting. Along with the Western powers, their commercial interests played a role in modernising Shanghai, Dalian and other Chinese port cities, which were of benefit to the country and to the other Powers.
+
+At the same time, their conduct in China and Southeast Asia was absolutely appalling and this has been confirmed by Western as well as Asian observers.
+
+The Japanese were really quite capable at times, and showed promise in their ability to manage their colonial holdings as well as their concessions in China. They simply got too greedy and demanding, and overstretched themselves. Also, besides what they did to the poor Chinese, they rather rudely and arrogantly thought they could trample on the legitimate rights of the other powers and get away with it, for no particular reason.
+
+And it could have all been so very different! And it was different before the war. The diverse, free, enterprising spirit of the New China open to the world was replaced, first by the horrors of war and atrocity brought by the Japanese, and then the red tide of communism. What a shame!
+--- 14922975
+>>14921591 (OP)
+I have no strong opinion about japan but weebs really do get under my skin, the religious fervor for a completely unrelated people and the obstinate defense of everything they do or did is really grating
+--- 14923058
+>>14922975
+copu andu seetho
+--- 14923087
+>>14921591 (OP)
+>nuance
+japs were subhumans deal with it
+--- 14923411
+>>14923058
+ywnbj
+--- 14923431
+It’s probably better to analise Japanese society in the timeframe from a domestic policy standpoint rather than a foreign policy one.
+How their society went from the europhilic meiji regime to the zaibatsu dominated taisho era and it’s culmination in the early shōwa/WW2.
+Japan is weird because, despite being a very successful country in many regards, it failed to reach the same standard of “rule of law” that the west did, despite actively trying to adopt it.
+--- 14923442
+>>14923431
+Democracy has always been a western European concept, it has never worked outside of it, not even in other parts of Europe like Russia.
+--- 14923470
+>>14921591 (OP)
+I'm a Thai hapa. I wouldn't have minded a "Pan Asian" empire that the Japanese at the time aspired to. Especially if it had sped up industrialization across the whole continent quicker. Then again, Thais didn't suffer under them and don't have the cultural anger that Chinese and Koreans d. The Thai kings played politics well. They threw Japan under the bus too, when it was finally convenient to them.
+--- 14923486
+>>14923470
+Why are there so many trannies in Thailand?
+--- 14923491
+>>14923486
+Beats me. I'm embarrassed anytime it's brought up. Plz no bully.
+--- 14923497
+>>14923491
+The only reason I don't get it is because Thailand has such a strong conservative buddhist culture. If it was India with their million gods and hijra I could understand it.
+--- 14923512
+>>14923497
+I understand. Some trannies know there's something wrong with them, but they write it off as just karma or karma they'll have to pay and hope to resolve it next time. It's sad. Buddhism is conservative, but karma has a way to hand wave issues in the present.
+--- 14923521
+>>14923512
+So what's the deal with you then, do you live in Thailand or are you a goblino de americanas?
+--- 14923585
+>>14923521
+In America. Also family business in Thailand, but I'm unvaxxed and can't even get in there now.
+--- 14923615
+>>14923585
+All you have to do is take COVID test and show the results to airport staff
+--- 14923623
+>>14923615
+Maybe the rules changed? Everyone I know (who was vaxxed) even had to be put in quarantine for awhile, as recently as last summer.
+--- 14923642
+>>14921591 (OP)
+People lack nuance about evertyhing.

his/14921630.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,44 @@
+-----
+--- 14921630
+>the great Greek conqueror Alexander was Macedonian
+>the great French conqueror Napoleon was Corsican
+>the great German conqueror Hitler was Austrian
+What's up with this?
+--- 14922212
+>>14921630 (OP)
+>Macedonian
+Just another type of Greek
+>Corsican
+Just another type of French
+>Austrian
+Just another type of German
+--- 14922458
+>>14921630 (OP)
+Immigrants overcompensating type scenario.
+--- 14922584
+>>14921630 (OP)
+Possiby E1b1b 
+E1b1b 
+E1b1b
+--- 14922658
+>>14921630 (OP)
+Were they Jomon or Yayoi?
+--- 14922683
+>>14922212
+Corsicans are very definitely Italians, but it could be argued that since French identity is fake and inclusive of multiple separate ethnicities to begin with, the distinction is irrelevant. Anyone at all can be French so long as they are gay and pathetic enough
+--- 14922903
+>>14922212
+>Just another type of German
+East Germans have strong slav-balt connection, while southern Germans have Latins-Celtic gene
+--- 14922910
+>>14922903
+This does not in any way contradict the statement
+--- 14923244
+>>14921630 (OP)
+Macedonian were neighboring chimpers that took advantage in the ashes of the Peloponnesian war
+--- 14923437
+>>14921630 (OP)
+It do be like this
+--- 14923605
+>>14922683
+Ethnicity is a spook, Germans are Germano-Celto-Slavic rapebabies.