-----
--- 57861718
Are shotguns better than rifles for home defense?
--- 57861735
>>57861718 (OP)
No.
--- 57861748
>>57861718 (OP)
I fucking love my shotguns. Rifles are neat and fun and have a skill of their own but shotguns are just fucking neat. I love them. They're just so satisfying. Pumps. Semis. Doubles. Singles. Bolts. They're just fucking fun fuck I love these fucking fuckers
--- 57861755
>>57861718 (OP)
Yes
--- 57861760
>>57861735
absolutely btfo by dubs>>57861755 
Rifle sisters..... it's over
--- 57861762
>>57861718 (OP)
They're about even until you get 5+ guys willing to trade all of their lives to kill you (lol).
--- 57861764
>>57861718 (OP)
Wouldn’t want anything smaller than a punt gun desu
--- 57861775
>>57861762
What if you have 5+ guys willing to trade their lives to make love to you?
--- 57861792
It depends. I don’t recommend manual actions of any kind for home defense, because in a moment of stress, short stroking your pump (or forgetting altogether) can be a very real problem. Problem is, good autoloading shotguns are pricey, whereas decent ARs are on the cheap. You can also get rifles in much smaller packages, and the recoil is going to be more manageable. 

The appeal of a 12 ga. is that it’s pretty much a one-shot-stop. #1 and #4 buck will offer the desired “stopping power” without risking the over-penetration of 00. 

The argument of capacity can be offset by 12 ga. lethality vs .223/5.56, just like .357 vs 9mm. It’s going to come down to how well you handle recoil, and how much you trust your ability to hit the target.
--- 57861801
>>57861775
Still even as you won't need or want a gun in that situation
--- 57861803
>>57861718 (OP)
Depends on what you're comfortable with. I use a 10.3 DD m18 as my bedside gun while my dad uses a 12 Guage 18" Maverick 88 with 00 buck. A friend of mine uses a 9mm he caries daily. 
It's truly all dependent on what you train and feel comfortable with.
I specifically use my 10.3 with 55gr IMI because I like having 30 rounds and I also live in a house with multiple people and neighborhood.
That's me though but a 12 gauge with 00 buck is all you'll ever need lol anyone who says it's over kill is retarded.
--- 57861805
>>57861801
Gunplay is sexy
--- 57861942
Nah, a short barreled AR with barrier blind loads is probably the best you can get. I still use a 1301 because my state is ran by island homos.
--- 57862090
>>57861718 (OP)
Yeah, rifles can't shoot dragon's breath.
--- 57862156
>>57861718 (OP)
I want that model so bad
--- 57862458
>>57861762
This guy is living in a Rust server hahahaha
--- 57862722
OP you should test out each in a home defense situation and see what you like best. Can't go wrong with either.
--- 57863102
>>57861718 (OP)
The largest hone invasion I've ever even heard of involved five men and was fought off with a revolver.
Typically you're dealing with two armed men plus maybe a driver.
Typically a fight involving a shotgun is resolved in the first two shots.
Riflefags and carbinefags tend to downplay this fact but the injuries a load of #00 buckshot produce are pretty substantial and if you have drilled with your weapon, the slide action is very fast.
I've never once short-stroked while shooting and adrenaline doesn't make you suddenly pull back softer.
Could you be the victim of an infantry squad invading your home?
Maybe?
But the moment a guy sees his homie's head explode, is usually the moment he rethinks his life.
And no, the sound of a shotgun racking will not make them crap themselves with fear and flee, if you pump it, you'll probably shoot it, so you'd better be serious about it.
--- 57863147
>>57861762
Don’t start a gang war and that won’t happen retard
--- 57863253
>>57863147
What's the tactical advantage of starting a gang war on your turf to get ballistics test data? Asking for a friend.
--- 57863564
>>57861718 (OP)
Hi /k/, I need some advice about buying a SxS.

I heard that Stoger guns are built in Turkey and that makes me question their build quality. 

Is it a good idea to grab one of their SxS models, or grab a cheap used European SxS (Simson, Brno, FEG, Husqvarna ) instead or is that also a fast way to piss away my cash
--- 57863633
>>57861718 (OP)
Neither, something's wrong with you if you think murdering someone over a $200 TV is acceptable. You have so many other options that don't involve loss of human life.
--- 57863735
>>57861718 (OP)
Yes
>>57861735
Idiot
--- 57863764
>>57863633
I would absolutely kill to defend my territory, property and possessions and loved ones. My home is not your fucking niggerjunkietresspass safe space.
--- 57863773
>>57863764
Cool murder fantasy, bro
--- 57863877
>>57861718 (OP)
Overpenetration and liberal DAs make shotguns better choices but who knows. Live the life that makes sense for YOU ya fuckin ass.
--- 57863892
>>57863633
Murder is a charge for a crime, home and personal defense does not garner such a title. Go be a pussy somewhere else.
--- 57863942
>>57863773
Not him, but I hope that one day, niggers, spics, and white trash continually break into your home and disrespect you in front of your family. To the point that you're left with zero belongings and basically more poor than them. Don't you see nigger? It's not about the $200, it's that if every thief or would be rapist/murderer got the rope, it would incentivize them to work instead. Your slap on the wrist approach is what has turned cities into what they are today.
--- 57863944
>>57863633
Idiot assumes that someone breaking in is trying to steal his cheap TV. You will end up dead sooner than later and no one will be sad.
--- 57864026
>>57861718 (OP)
Shotguns for home defense make sense if even one of the following is true.

>Cuck state (woke DAs or gimped rifles)
>You train and are comfortable with shotguns (such as three gun competitions) since shotguns require more fine motor skills
>It's all you can legally buy (cuck nation)
>Over penetration is a massive concern (you can use #4 buck instead of 00)
>You want a gun that will turn a man's head into an exploded watermelon or nearly remove a limb
>Higher one shot stop potential

My AR is in it's safe for "SHTF" fantasies, but my Benelli M4 is my beside gun for negroes, beans, and trailer trash.
--- 57864069
>>57862458
When I play Rust, the Benelli M4 is the best gun to fight off a raid when they're inside your base or right outside your door. Even in video games, semi auto shotguns still confirmed CQB kangz
--- 57864090
>>57863944
Statistics overwhelmingly agree that yes, vast majority of break-ins are mere burglaries. You have a 2% chance of your home getting burglared annually on average, and only 7% of that 2% result in criminal violence.
Even when factoring in these astronomically low odds, you can opt for home security systems, dogs, deadbolts, alarms, broken glass on your rooftops, etc. BEFORE you think about splattering blood all over your carpet. But retards ITT of course want to look tough fantasizing about murdering someone over property.
--- 57864132
When I was a cop (I quit because its gay) I saw several people shot with 12 gauge shotguns and not a one lived to tell the tale. That said I keep a cheap Taurus 9mm with a lught on my nightstand because its easier to hop out and go check the yard or driveway with that inconspicuously than my 870. If I knew for sure somebody was kicking in my door I'd grab the 870 though
--- 57864156
>>57861718 (OP)
nope
the advantage of shotguns is just an availability one. In cucked places it is usually easier to get a shotgun than a centerfire rifle. People who hunt often own shotguns or did so in the past because versatile. They are cheap. In theory it looks better in a court that you shot someone twice with "pawpaw's huntin gun" than 16 times with a pistol or rifle.
--- 57864210
I'd rather have a full auto sub gun but absent that a Shotgun is king for one shot drops.
--- 57864241
>>57861718 (OP)
Sadly, no.

Rifles have better range, accuracy, rate of fire, larger capacity, faster reloads, and simular power with less recoil compared to shotguns.

There is a reason why President Biden wants to ban modern sporting rifles and then tells people to get a shotgun instead. The government isnt afraid of people with shotguns.

I really like shotguns and think they are svelte, but shotguns are just too useless to be anything more than a sporting good. Even cops have been dumping shotguns for AR15s ever since they got mogged in North Hollywood.
--- 57864244
>>57863102
There was a home invasion in Torcongo recently with 6 intruders, homeowner killed 1 and the rest ran away. Idk for sure but I think shotgun.
(Owner is being charged ofc because that's Canada).
--- 57864248
>>57861718 (OP)
Pound-for-pound, yes. Meaning; the effort, training and money invested in shotguns protects a home more effectively than a rifle. Only a dedicated assault warrants the use of a rifle. If you do, using solely a rifle isnt enough for 99.9% of cases.
--- 57864250
>>57861718 (OP)
Only if you can get an automatic one.
--- 57864256
>>57864090
This is what liberals actually believe. Lol. Fucking retards.
--- 57864258
>>57863633
The life of a burglar trying to steal a $200 TV from me is worth less than $200 though.
It's worth negative $200 in fact if you do the math.
--- 57864264
>>57861762
This.

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2023/04/terrifying-video-shows-connecticut-man-heroically-trying-to-fight-off-four-violent-thugs-in-attempted-carjacking/
--- 57864289
>>57864241
Rifles are forbidden in many areas of the world because a militia armed with rifles requires magnitudes of investment from the govt to fight off. The reason why full auto requires part switching is to prevent NPC civilians from putting in danger cities and urban areas; the holy grail of globohomo. They can afford to lose rural areas, because its simply a matter of purchasing food for a steeper price for the elite from importation (militias cannot stop entire coastal areas at once; at maximum put pressure on infrastructure).

A civilian with a full auto 9mm is much more dangerous than one with a semi-auto rifle; the conversion statistics wont be favourable when SHTF.
--- 57864292
>>57864241
Shotguns lack capability vs body armor and cars, which is why the govt likes them more. They work great for popping street criminals breaking into your house. Its a false sense of security though, could also just aim for the hips and upper legs of any armored...street criminals if you had to.
--- 57864332
>>57864292
Shotguns are great in CQB but lack the potential for damage in >100 yards. A militia with shotguns only needs to be fought in a favourable terrain; with rifles, its a different beast. In urban scenarios, even with body armor accounted, FA will always put the LEO on the defensive.
--- 57864388
>>57864090
Tell all these cute statistics and options to the home invader. People like you are why crime flourishes. Its never their fault. You are pathetic. 

How about this for statistics, if you never break into a house you have a 0.0% chance of being shot breaking into a house.
--- 57864391
>>57863633
It's not me who decided that murdering someone over a $200 TV is acceptable, it's the invader who decided a $200 TV was an acceptable thing to gamble his life with.
--- 57864413
>>57864090
it'd be 0% if people shot everyone that broke in
--- 57864449
>>57864332
Obviously? This thread is about home defense not militia shit
--- 57864472
>>57861792
>I don’t recommend manual actions of any kind for home defense, because in a moment of stress, short stroking your pump (or forgetting altogether) can be a very real problem.
Worse yet, if you pump a shotgun at a weird angle (like on its side because you fell or were knocked down) the shell can often just fall off the lifter and out the ejection port. Pump shotguns need good technique and ideal operating conditions to be effective.

>>57863102
>>57864244
My favorite home defense story is the guy in 2019 who used an AK47 to fight off 5 home invaders. He killed 3 of them.

https://policetribune.com/texas-homeowner-with-ak-47-fatally-shoots-3-armed-robbers-injures-2-more/

Dont mess with that .30 cal.
--- 57864479
>>57864472
based nog destroyer
--- 57864493
>>57864388
>>57864413
It'd also be 0% if you took simple, preventive measures beforehand that didn't immediately escalate to disproportionate violent response. Only psychopaths think like this
--- 57864500
>>57864493
>It'd also be 0% if you took simple, preventive measures beforehand that didn't immediately escalate to disproportionate violent response. Only psychopaths think like this

When you enter a man's home and safe haven, you are asking for everything coming to you. I don't give a shit what you think. Fuck around and find out. Nigger.
--- 57864509
if shotguns are so good for room to room shooting how come all the doorkicker death squads only use them on doorknobs? shotguns being good for hd is just ancient fuddlore from the times when your average fudd's options were down to a shotgun, a model 700 in 7 rem mag, and some shitty revolver in .32 h&r. now that you can buy an ar for $500 there's no reason to keep perpetuating the meme other than cope because you fell for it.
--- 57864523
>>57864493
Literally don't burglar. Just don't steal. It's that fucking easy. Why is this so hard to understand?
--- 57864542
Every burglar should have a shotgun barrel shoved up his asshole before the trigger is pulled.
--- 57864551
>>57864493
>It'd also be 0% if you took simple, preventive measures beforehand that didn't immediately escalate to disproportionate violent response. Only psychopaths think like this
--- 57864553
>>57864493
ok I'll lock my doors.
Still mag dumping you if you try to break in though.
--- 57864555
>>57864500
Again, thanks for proving my point that you're only interested in having your sick little murder fantasy play out
>>57864523
Who said or implied anything about disagreeing with burglaring?
--- 57864586
>>57864509
>if shotguns are so good for room to room shooting how come all the doorkicker death squads only use them on doorknobs? 
I should have stopped reading right there; nothing intelligent could have followed that.
I've actually been in a stack, and the guy with the shotgun will continue to use it through the entire building clearance, since we're usually in a hurry and nobody is going to stop to switch primary arms.
>shotguns being good for hd is just ancient fuddlore from the times when your average fudd's options were down to a shotgun, a model 700 in 7 rem mag, and some shitty revolver in .32 h&r.
Back when full auto machine guns were less expensive and even California allowed 30 round mags?
> now that you can buy an ar for $500 there's no reason to keep perpetuating the meme other than cope because you fell for it.
You fell for the caprbinefag lore.
Not our fault you blew several paychecks on a rifle you barely use and a metric tin of attachments, instead of a Mossberg 500, a flashlight and a thousand cans of 12 gauge.
Shotguns are fine.
--- 57864593
>>57861718 (OP)
Yes, 2 3/4" #1 buck baby
--- 57864678
>>57864586
>I've actually been in a stack, and the guy with the shotgun will continue to use it through the entire building clearance, since we're usually in a hurry and nobody is going to stop to switch primary arms.

Yes, but he is the only guy in the group using a shotgun as his primary and he only keeps using it for the very reason that you yourself point out. You know full well that guy would switch to his M4 after breaching the door if he could. Way to own yourself bro.
--- 57864695
>>57861718 (OP)
>Better
No
>Still perfectly good
Yes
/k/ suffers from terminal larparator brain rot and can't see guns outside of any context other than shtf, which is why shotguns get so shat on around here because yeah, shotguns kinda suck in a full on warzone, HD against your garden variety nog is a much different scenario though and the weakness of a shotgun become basically meaningless when you look at the facts and statistics of basically every home invasion ever.
--- 57864736
Are those hollowpoint slugs a meme or do they actually cause hideous/hilarious overkill worth it?
--- 57864757
I only reach for it because I want to see what happens
--- 57864767
>>57863253
Kek’d
--- 57864791
>>57863633
"Dear Frederick, thank you for your nice post, but I am actually a man with functioning testicles whereas clearly you have mistaken me for some sort of wine-sipping Communist dick-suck. And although peace probably appeals to tree-loving bisexuals like you and your parents, I happen to be a death-dealing, blood-crazed warrior who wakes up every day just hoping for the chance to dismember my enemies and shoot someone over a $200 dollar tv."
--- 57865002
>>57863633
Yes, the perfectly reasonable home invader will professionally remove just your television from the wall, tip his hat, and totally won't stomp your brains in on the way out.
--- 57865193
>>57865002
Why do you immediately assume that they're there to kill you instead of the far more likelier scenario that they'll immediately fuck off once you make your presence known? Do you do this sort of unreasonable threat assessment with randos you see on the street every day?
--- 57865197
>>57865193
>leftypol nigger constantly monitoring the thread for (you)'s
lol
--- 57865311
>>57865197
>no argument
Concession accepted
--- 57865328
>>57865193
He's willing to break into someones home to steal shit, he's desperate and low-IQ, a very dangerous combination you don't want to take any chances with.
--- 57865350
>57865311
nta, not getting another (you) faggot
--- 57865396
>>57864586
ok so you admit that everyone else has rifles because they're more effective and the only reason the one guy who use the shotgun on the door keeps using it is because it's not worth trying to swap. how many doors do you have to breech when you're defending your own house?

there was that one story about how audie murphy asked a guy if he had a gun to protect his family from nigger riots and when the guy said no he gave him a m1 carbine. how come it wasn't a shotgun?
--- 57865468
>>57861942
>island homos 
Kek
--- 57865487
>57865193
Someone in your home uninvited is a completely different scenario than someone on the street you braindead retard and it's unreasonable to consider them anything other than a threat
--- 57865570
>>57865193
>the far more likelier scenario that they'll immediately fuck off once you make your presence known?
Not if I perform a citizen's arrest. One less criminal on the street is always a win.
--- 57865836
>>57863877
>>57864026
>>57864132
>>57864593
300 blk with frangible ammunition should be your go-to for HD. 
>low risk of over-penetration
>heckin nasty wounds
>short barrel for corners
>common manual of arms
>high capacity
>lower recoil for faster follow up shots
Fuck the DA
--- 57867227
If you're at rural or Rooftop Korean ranges, rifle. If they're making entry or inside the house, shotgun.
If you're out walking, or asleep in bed, or in your car, the pistol is more convenient.
This isn't rocket science ffs.
--- 57867281
My family has a shotgun but quite frankly, what is my home's greatest defense is also its greatest danger: that our next door neighbor is a drug dealer that somehow is not in prison despite the fact that it's pretty well-known that he's killed people before. So if shit is started on our street, odds are he's going to think they've come for him and he's going to murder everyone he doesn't recognize. So you know, here's hoping his aim is good.
--- 57867404
>>57861718 (OP)
Why would I want something that has a similar form factor to a rifle yet
>holds significantly less ammo
>is significantly harder to reload 
>has considerably more recoil 
>is much less effective against any potential body armor a threat could be wearing 
Better than nothing, but under pretty much no circumstances would I ever consider a shotgun over my rifle.
--- 57867435
>>57867281
>that our next door neighbor is a drug dealer that somehow is not in prison despite the fact that it's pretty well-known that he's killed people before.
How is he as a neighbor though? An ex con lived next door to me with his family and he was the greatest neighbor ever, helped solve problems on the street and also beat the shit out of guys who were breaking into cars twice in 5 years. He also did some illegal shit but we didn't care about that.
--- 57867444
>>57867435
He's a nice guy, I often see him playing with his dog in the backyard, but I wouldn't ever fuck with him.
--- 57867471
>>57867444
Oh and also my mom always talks with his wife when they see each other out front so there's that going for us.
--- 57867491
>>57861748
Fuck yeah boi
--- 57867538
>>57863564
Turkish guns cn be fine, especially if they are being built in Turkey under a different brand, like Stoeger and winchester do. Its the random Turkshit companies mass producing gimmicky shotguns you need to steer clear of.
Euro SxS's are fine and can be dirt cheap. Mine doesn't even have a brand on it, just says 'Belgium'. It's a solid gun still though.
--- 57867558
>>57861718 (OP)
I'd make the choice based on you home situation, in a house with children and/gas stoves i'd pass on the rifles risk of overpen.
--- 57867587
>>57867404
You much be from a very rich city if the tweakers wear kevlar.
--- 57867788
>>57864479
>The dead were identified as Randy Torres, 18, Jonathan Flores, 24, and Joseph Montoya, 20
Also holy fuck here's a /k/ thing I never really considered before - imagine killing armed retards invading your house then having to spend the indeterminate future dealing with their moms and sisters crying outside your house and calling you a murderer
--- 57867849
>>57867587
you must be pretty naiive if you're worried about tweakers and not fema death squads
--- 57867864
>>57867849
>IM GUNNA KILL DUH GUBBMINT AGENTS!
No you won't.
--- 57867906
>>57867404
You forgot the most important aspect which is the ability to introduce a malfunction by short stroking that isn't possible with a semi auto rifle, which is particularly applicable for the average retard's home defense gun since they're not gonna go practice but instead just let it sit under the bed for years.
--- 57867909
>>57864090
Absolutely retarded take. Please tell us you don't have the right to vote, drive or own firearms.
--- 57868069
>>57861762
My shotty holds 8+1 though
--- 57868595
>>57863735
>idiot
And yet you can't explain why.
--- 57868647
>>57861718 (OP)
>Are shotguns better than rifles for home defense?
I prefer my Roomba and my Mossberg
--- 57868870
>>57864678
Knowing Jackson, he wouldn't have wanted to switch; he fucking loved that shotgun.
>>57865396
Because the needs of the military are VASTLY different from those a man defending his home.
>there was that one story about how audie murphy asked...
Without knowing more of the background it remains a story
For all we know, Murphy just had the .30 Carbine laying around and gave it as a gift, instead of going to the trouble to purchase a new weapon.
When my dad learned that I didn't have a gun, he gave me a Mosin-Nagant 91/30.
Not really the best HD option.
--- 57868933
>>57867906
As opposed to the ability to induce a failure to feed because the guy hasn't changed is mag out in six months and the feed lips are now slightly deformed?
Because let's be honest: Joe Average isn't hitting up the range, no matter what gun he bought.
--- 57868998
>>57864090
>Slimy euro-serf hands wrote this.
Sorry son, but around these parts we have rules:
>Talk shit get hit.
>Fuck around and find out.
>Stay strapped or get clapped.
Somebody's comes uninvited into my house where my wife and daughter live, I don't know his intentions.
He was dead the second he stepped inside, what follows is just a formality.
Not a "fantasy", just the way things are done.
--- 57869100
no. ideal gun for home defense is a suppressed rifle firing subsonic ammo for the simple reason that it won't blow your ears out but still very effectively delivers a lot of hurt to the target.
--- 57869588
>>57861718 (OP)
Ya
--- 57869790
I like the idea of a progressively loaded shotgun.

Something like the Benelli M3 that is semi-auto but also can be manually pumped which I think it's beneficial for home defense since the sound of a pump action actuating can be enough of a deterrent during a home invasion/robbery scenario. So with a 5+1 capacity you can load bird shot, bird shot, buck shot, buck shot, slug, slug, slug.
Even if you do "waste" your first shot with a manual pump to scare them off, you're only wasting bird shot (your detterent load) not the buckshot or slugs loaded later.

If you want to forego the ability to scare someone away with the noise of the pump, then upgrade to the M4 or 1301 which both can come with 7+1 magazines which would allow even deeper magazine depth (for more deterrent shots, or more lethal shots depending how you want to load).
--- 57869938
>>57864493
>It'd also be 0% if you took simple, preventive measures beforehand that didn't immediately escalate to disproportionate violent response.
I consider shrapnel mines to be an appropriate level of violence for someone who wants to break into my home, but we haven't reached a level of society where shit like that is legal again. I know you're trawling for (You)'s, but there are people who legitimately believe it's better to part with personal possessions than defend their home. My question is, when does it stop? At what point is defending your home with potentially lethal force considered justifiable? Do they have to brandish a weapon? Do they have to kick down my door and loudly exclaim that they're here to rape my TV, eat my wife, and steal the apples from my fridge?

There is no way to reach people who think like you with logic or appeals to emotion, because you are illogical and devoid of real emotions.
--- 57870121
Both are fine if you have a normal house. If you have really long interior shots, though, a rifle is better. 
I only have a rifle because realistic interior shots in my house are over 30 yards, I shit you not. When I lived in an apartment I kept a glock in the night stand because that was appropriate.
--- 57870134
>>57870121
>I only have a rifle because realistic interior shots in my house are over 30 yards
Lmao, no the fuck it's not.

What sort of delusional world do you live in?

Even the largest mansion in the united states would have a HANDFUL of locations where you could make 30 yard shots INSIDE the fucking house.
--- 57870200
>>57864090
>You have a 2% chance of your home getting burglared annually on average, and only 7% of that 2% result in criminal violence.

>82 million homes in the USA
>2% or 1640000 homes burglared annually
>7% or 114800 of those 1640000 burglaries, result in criminal violence

This isn't the argument you probably wanted it to be.
--- 57870229
>>57869790
Just load it all with birdshot. At indoor distances (<5m) it will kill the intruder just as well, and you don't have to autistically count what "stage" of your magazine you are on.
--- 57870230
>>57870121
>I only have a rifle because realistic interior shots in my house are over 30 yards
Post your castle my liege
--- 57870258
>>57870229
You wouldn't count, you'd simply know the deeper you go the more lethal you get.

Also, bird shot is not fucking lethal at close up, even with a shot to the head bird shot wont assure a kill. You CAN get lethal shots, but you sure as fuck shouldn't EXPECT them.
--- 57870287
>>57870134
30yds might be a bit much but there are a lot of houses in the US that are essentially just one long hallway with rooms attached. Especially older houses that have been remodeled at some point where they just add more hallway to expand. Very common in Florida.
I can only speak for the South but I've lived in two houses that you can see the front from the rear of the house, as well as through every doorway, kitchen and living room. Pretty close to 30yds at least.
Though I'm not sure I would want to take an engagement at that distance in a house as it would effectively be a CS:GO angle and it would be hard to ID the target. Sounds like a good way to accidentally shoot grandpa.
--- 57870318
>>57870287
30-40 feet maybe, but 90 fucking feet? No, you're simply mistaken.
--- 57870479
>>57870258
What the fuck are you smoking? At less than 5 meters birdshot is lethal.
--- 57870500
>>57870479
Again, it CAN be lethal.

If you think birdshot is 100% lethal at less than 5 yards, I've got a bridge in London i'd love for you to purchase.
--- 57870509
>>57864264
this was sad to watch what were you even trying to prove?
--- 57870520
>>57870500
>hurr durr
Rifle isn't necessarily lethal at less than 5 yards either, but you didn't bother to make that correction, now did you?
--- 57870540
>>57870520
Because birdshot is DEMONSTARBLY not lethal at that range unless you get a headshot, and even then it's not assured lethal.

A limb or body shot at 5 yards is almost certainly NOT lethal unless you got really lucky hitting something vital.


Also "rifle" is such a broad category I easily COULD make that argument. .17 HMR or .22LR certainly are NOT 100% lethal at 5 yards either, even with headshots.
--- 57870544
>>57863633
Shit nigga, I'd PAY $200 for the opportunity to blast a violent criminal with my 12 gauge and not go to jail. Why do you support those who prey on others?
--- 57870557
>>57870540
You are the dumbest person on /k/ right now.
--- 57870665
>>57870557
IDK, claiming birdshot is a lethal loading is pretty FUCKING retarded.
--- 57870669
>>57870479
Show gel test results
--- 57870853
>>57870669
https://youtu.be/zaR1EVybUgc [Embed]
https://youtu.be/Z16weqEQK0s [Embed]
>penetrates ribs
>penetrates 10-12 cm of ballistic gel
>not lethal 

>>57870665
You are the dumbest motherfucker I've spoken to in ages.
--- 57871157
>>57861718 (OP)
No. The 1-shot BTFOness of shotties is great but follow-up shots are more important and semis are more finnicky by design.

>but hurr durr how can you miss a shot at 10 feet train harder bruh, muh cuck costa's art of the defensive boomstick, etc.
Shit happens nigger. Real life can be batshit insane so your best bet is shooting under batshit insane conditions. If you think you will never short stroke your mexiberg 88 try shooting in:

>low light 
>after your dominant arm has been in a tourniquet for 1 hour
>15-20 minutes after being maced 
>out of breath enough that your diaphragm starts to spasm harder than kurt eichenwald playing Wipeout 2097
>sleep deprived/hangover (but not drunk, that's an ND waiting to happen)
>borderline ODing on monster ultra

And if you're a young buck and your body can take it, training when you're sick is unironically a good idea. Doesn't matter the affliction: goyvid-19, a bad case of the shits or bilateral pink eye, it's all good. Yes, you will shart yourself when going prone or have an ND (use birdshot for the love of God) and that's a GOOD THING. 

If all this sounds incomprehensibly LARPery to you, even tame shit like boomer action shooting and IPSC will provide some degree of stress inoculation. Fuck even shit completely unrelated to funz will do, whether it's playing with a band live or trying to pick up milfs at a tiki bar.

tl;dr: stack up enough stressors and your body WILL fuck up. If you don't see your body fuck up you're not training hard enough.

>>57867788
That's something that pops up every now and then. Babymomma's trying to milk you dry in civil court (see Bernie Goetz) are a given but there's also the possibility of the thug's associates trying to avenge their homie (that jeweller in LA who had to fend off a whole gang worth's of attacks before finally moving out).
--- 57871186
>>57864241
>muh sporting rifle

Anon, you don't have to pretend here. Autoloaders are tools of war.
--- 57871295
>>57870853
Now go through a heavy hoodie/jacket + t-shirt, or jeans.

Also most people have a bit of fat to them which adds even more resistance before you can hit a vital area.

Birdshot simply isn't a good lethal loading, even more so if the assailant is potentially on various stimulants or other drugs which could allow them to shrug off even many lethal wounds for a short period of time.
--- 57871420
>>57865193
Why do you value my property more than your life?
--- 57871422
>>57871295
None of the shit you mentioned will significantly reduce the impact of full on birdshot hit at less than 5 yards. Stop digging your own grave and just take the L and fuck off.

Birdshot at less than 5 yards range is lethal, barring shit that isn't lethal for other guns either, like limb shots.
--- 57871448
>>57871422
It wont even penetrate ribs or your sternum, it MIGHT penetrate the skull depending on how close you are.

Again, it CAN be lethal, but it's hardly assured, even at 5 yards.

there are people who have eaten buckshot through the mouth and lived, let alone birdshot.
--- 57871585
>>57871448
>It wont even penetrate ribs or your sternum, it MIGHT penetrate the skull depending on how close you are.
I literally linked a video that showed birdshot penetrating ribs.

>Again, it CAN be lethal, but it's hardly assured, even at 5 yards.
Just like every other gun and caliber ever created.

>there are people who have eaten buckshot through the mouth and lived, let alone birdshot.
That isn't because birdshot is less lethal, but because they were retarded (like you) and weren't aiming at immediately lethal hit locations. You can shoot someone's jaw off with a 30-06 and not manage to kill them, and it doesn't mean it is somehow not lethal caliber.

If I shoot you directly in the face from 5 yards with birdshot, you're dead. If I magdump you in the shins with an AR15 from 5 yards, you'll likely live if someone wheels you off to get medical attention.
--- 57871752
>>57865836
Nah, I'd rather not be a homosexual. Begone Satan.
--- 57871776
>>57867788
>What is best in life?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_XUu3_pLPUE [Embed]
--- 57871780
>>57861718 (OP)
No, just by virtue of simplicity of arms.

pull trigger, shoot badguy > pull trigger, pump, shoot badguy.
Simple as.
--- 57872022
>>57861718 (OP)
/k/'s ability to do threat analysis is generally terrible and statistically-speaking most of the people posting on this board don't own a single gun and if they do, it's probably a single gun. As a bunch of degenerate weapons fetishists with autism we also tend to get emotionally invested in individual firearms choice to a degree that's frankly retarded. This is all to say: take opinions here with a grain of fucking salt. 

Most people talking about muh short-stroking don't have enough experience with one to speak on the topic. Most probably don't own a shotgun. Shortstroking is a skill issue, and you should be practicing with a gun you intend to trust your life with. I'm 33 years old and have been shooting since 1994 and have not short-stroked a shotgun since I was so small that I needed my father's help to hold up the gun. I have hunted and competed with shotguns and it's as valid a criticism as saying that you should not use a glock for home defense because limpwristing can cause stovepipes: the only appropriate response is "git gud" and move on.
Moreover, as someone who has used an AR platform rifle indoors in the dark professionally, if you're planning on making that shit your home defense tool (and again realistically the people most invested in this argument probably AT BEST own either a single AR or a single shotgun), get a can for it and plan on donning earpro before you shoot because that pressure impulse in a dark enclosed space is a motherfucker, particularly if you're not prepared for it and ESPECIALLY if you're not wearing earpro. Decibel reading charts are deceptive on this topic because of the significantly lower pressure of 12ga but it translates to a more comfortable experience, again, unless you're also planning on investing in a can (and I'd be shocked if this thread didnt consist almost entirely of PSA, Ruger, or M&P owners on one side and Maverick 88 owners on the other).
--- 57872126
>>57872022
Hit character limit but my last comment before seething retards come out of the woordworks to try and pick apart what I said there:

Out of all my possible choices for HD, multiple ARs and AKs and 9mm pistols in various configurations for various uses, including the g19 I carry literally every day, my bedside weapon is a mossberg 590 because at the likely ranges I will fire a weapon in my house all of the pros of a shotgun apply and none of the cons are strong enough to make me choose a different weapon. I'm not particularly hung up on the threat of a team of determined attackers in body armor, and I guess if I ever find myself on the wrong end of a turf war or likely to get no-knocked by a swat team I might rethink that, but as it stands my most likely threat is a tweaker looking for precursor chemicals or copper.

Bonus: any loading that will reliable kill a human being is going to go through more interior drywall than you have in your house (unless you're His Majesty up there claiming to have 30M lines of sight in his house lmao) so quibbling about overpen is also engaging in the wrong kind of autism on this topic. Pic related
--- 57872370
>>57864791
Based Generation Kill enjoyer
--- 57872536
>>57870853
>relying on shot I routinely find stick in birds I've shot at close range using a 28" barrel
No thanks. Birdshot is for shooting birds and that's it.
--- 57872687
>>57872536
>at close ranges
Define close range.
--- 57872892
>>57872687
BirdshotRetardAnon I personally grew up with a kid who while hunting accidentally shot his dad in the face from across a forest service road, maybe 25 feet distance plus some brush in the way, and his dad literally only had minor cosmetic damage he didn't even spend the night in the hospital.
--- 57872948
>>57863102
I've been told all you need is a double barrel shotgun that you shoot into the sky and the criminals will flee.
--- 57872958
>>57872948
Isn't it time for you to get some ice cream, Mr. President?
--- 57873317
>>57872022
>it's as valid a criticism as saying that you should not use a glock for home defense because limpwristing can cause stovepipes
kek that IS a valid criticism. If your nightstand handgun is not a metal-frame full-size you're retarded.
Is it a skill issue? Yes and no. But you're presuming your skills will be 100% there when you need them. What happens if your body can't cope with the adrenaline dump. What happens if you're hungover? What happens if them Alex Jones supplements got you acting goofy? What happens if your kid bonked you on the head with a softball bat earlier in the day and you're half-contused without realizing it? 

You want to give yourself the best chances to not fuck up and compact plastic-o-matics with shitty triggers don't provide that. 

>inb4 but muh training commonality or some other larperator BS