-----
--- 57837602
But... why?
--- 57837614
>>57837602 (OP)
So many manufacturing malfunctions for a piece of shit that costs $7k.

Fuck sig, they're niggers.
--- 57837627
>>57837614
What happened this time?
--- 57837821
>>57837627
Everyone who's ever bought an AR-15 is outrageous the Army has switched to a different cartridge and rifle. They feel abandoned and unloved because they are, and they're hyped up little 22 magnums are going the way of the dodo while 30 caliber rains supreme yet again after a nice little nap.
--- 57838080
>>57837821
>.30 cal reigns supreme 
>new cartridge is .277
What did he mean by this?
--- 57838096
>>57837602 (OP)
Is it the handguard flexing and not returning to center?
--- 57838108
>>57837602 (OP)
Because the army was too far into SIG's pockets to pick an actually innovative rifle
--- 57838141
>>57837602 (OP)
It can blast through Russian body armor, it was literally designed to do so

They are also going to be issued with an optic that's able to auto-aim headshot targets from a mile away (see pic related)
--- 57838150
>>57838108
>actually innovative rifle
None of the rifle entries were innovative and Sig produced the only innovative SAW, you coping and seething nigger. >>57837614
>source: my ass
--- 57838194
>>57837602 (OP)
To make /k/ seethe
--- 57838218
>2010 /k/: WE WANT BATTLE RIFLES. BATTLE RIFLES ARE CHAD
>2020 /k/: WHY DID THE MILITARY ADOPT A BATTLE RIFLE?
--- 57838228
>>57837602 (OP)
compensation for small penis
--- 57838352
>>57838218
Take me back
--- 57838540
it really is a dumb idea
there is already so much support for the AR platform, they really should have just made an AR in the caliber they want 
also this new rifle is heavy, which is going to be a problem if the army continues to lower standards and push "diversity and inclusion" and recruit women, trannies and fags
--- 57838632
>>57837602 (OP)
Two (2) charging handles
--- 57838704
>>57837602 (OP)
>Cohen.
--- 57838707
>>57837602 (OP)
The russian big bad has body armor now! The US needs a bigger booooolit for muh OVERMATCH, so say the MIC.

Turns out they probably can't afford to issue it. And if they did, they'd probably be sold to the black market and replaced with egg cartons.
--- 57838776
>>57838218
Based fucking king
--- 57838883
>>57838218
But this battle rifle is retarded and jewish.
--- 57838906
>>57838080
uh, duh its called ROUNDing up
--- 57838943
>we're going to replace several million M4s and M16s in armories with 110,000 of these
--- 57838991
>>57838943
no, they're replacing ~110,000 frontline M4's and ~20,000 frontline M249s with ~110,000 XM7s and ~20,000 XM250s.

Everyone else keeps their M4s.
--- 57839197
>>57838991
and after sometime everyone will have xm5 or 7 as you called it for unknown to me reason
--- 57839232
>>57837614
Such as?
--- 57839271
>>57838632
It's stupid but it's one of trivial reasons why they won
--- 57839327
>>57838218
SIG managed to take all the soul out of a battle rifle somehow
--- 57839344
>>57837602 (OP)
The MG
--- 57839354
>>57839197
They haven't announced any plan to do as such.
For now all they've announced is they're buying ~110,000 rifles to be fielded by the frontline combat units.
What they decide to do in 5-10+ years is anyone's guess, but right now they've officially not made any decision.


As for XM5/XM7, it was renamed because Colt already has an M5 rifle and to avoid any potential lawsuits or problems the army pre-emptively changed the name to the XM7 which will become the M7 when it enters service later this year.
--- 57839371
>>57837602 (OP)
Battle Rifles are too heavy
Assault Rifles are too weak against modern body armor
The Sig Spear bridges the gap between Battle Rifles and Assault Rifles. This is afforded due to modern material science, allowing higher chamber pressures than previous Assault Rifles while also remaining relatively light
>but muh recoil!
I've fired one, its fine.
--- 57839394
>>57839371
it has the weight of a battle rifle and the ballistics of an intermediate
--- 57839410
>>57837614
>Fuck sig, they're niggers.
You didn't need to say anything else
--- 57839420
>>57839394
but it has better ballistics than either .308 or 6.5 mememoor


it's also lighter than MOST other battle rifles. And none of those other battle rifles were designed to shoot an 80k PSI round.
--- 57839459
>>57837602 (OP)
MICs gonna MIC
cant stop the MICkers
--- 57839501
>>57838883
Incorrect, Jewish battle rifles are highly tuned kebab removal machines
This is lederhosen made of weinerschnitzel
--- 57839520
>>57837602 (OP)
Because muh overmatch.

Never forget that the Army spent twenty years working on a new, lightweight polymer case-telescoped round that would reduce the infantryman's burden (or more likely, allow him to carry more stuff like radios, batteries, and explosives). And then, at the last second, a couple generals who were obsessed with the supposed range advantage the Taliban had in mountaintop fights trashed the whole program by rewriting the program requirements to demand a heavy bullet traveling at warp speed. And now, the infantry won't have enough ammo for a long firefight, much less enough spare weight allowance to carry the smart munitions they'll need.
--- 57839668
>>57839520
Polymer case technology is rapidly advancing too. It's not like it just stopped when this competition ended. The goofy multi-piece case shit already looks outdated and will be a forgotten curiosity within a few years.
--- 57840014
>>57839520
And range + Velocity is the most important design criteria but god forbid they pick a bullpup
--- 57840028
>>57839668
Sig won and you haven't been able to cope with it since
--- 57840091
>>57839520

got mech dog carry ammo soon dont you worry
--- 57840103
>>57837602 (OP)
SIG USA has successfully captured the Army procurement apparatus. Corruption is increasingly evident across all of US government including armed forces.
--- 57840144
>>57837602 (OP)
reinventing the wheel lol. every general prepared to fight the last war.
--- 57840159
>>57840103
Even leafs are replacing their pistols with P320s
--- 57840216
>pircrel is the guy she told you not to worry about 
FN IWS puts siggers on suicide
--- 57840272
>>57840216
How so? It's not like FY24 budget saw any reduction in M7/M250 orders.

SIG are laughing all the way to the bank.
--- 57840461
>>57840159
Canada is run by jews
--- 57840476
>>57840216
>We should've adopted .280 Brit in the first place
--- 57840637
>>57839197
>after sometime
Which has never happened before with a service rifle
The '03 Springfield, Garand, M14, M16, they were all rolled out by the millions within their first five years issued
--- 57840746
>>57837602 (OP)
Because it's fast as fuck boy and has good bc and sectional density to shred armor and turn tissue into jelly
--- 57840793
>>57839420
>Better ballistics than either .308 or 6.5 creedmoor
>For some reason they cant go back to .308 and make it better saving time and money. 
>Oh wait they want this thing to be "Expensive" so they can transfer more wealth from the American tax payer to the elite

Nothing to see here.
--- 57840798
>>57838218
because 
>"WE WANT A BATTLE RIFLE"
>monkey paw: "okay, but it's made by SIG"
>"FUCK"
--- 57841206
>>57840793
This
--- 57841271
>>57840798
>"okay, but it's made by SIG"
it's more like 
>"okay, but it's a soulless AR platform ripoff"
--- 57843095
>>57837602 (OP)
Because
--- 57843424
>>57837602 (OP)
Grifter's paradise
Just like with the Future Warrior/Future Soldier programs of the 90s and early 00s the only winners are the defense companies involved
--- 57843472
>>57839668
>The goofy multi-piece case shit already looks outdated and will be a forgotten curiosity within a few years.
>*he doesn't know*
--- 57843478
>>57840476
>piss weak cartridge
--- 57843481
>>57838150
The Textron one with the cased telescoped ammo was better
--- 57843508
>>57843481
There are rummors case telescoping is plagued by accuracy problems induced by moving chamber misalignments and incompatibility with VLD bullets like 6.8 GP.
It passed tests with surrogate bullet, but with real 6.8 GP it flopped.
--- 57843520
>>57843472
Hmu when 5.56 can go 4k fps out of a 16" barrel
--- 57843544
>>57843472
I mean, it's one way to get Govment Subsidized Bubba's Hottest Pissenist loads to fire without exploding cases.

A bridge tech if anything. Until we can easily rework a new case alloy/poly whatever they go with.

Guns a meme but the idea of fuckin 80k PSI kinda tickles my innards
--- 57843603
>>57843544
>you WILL fire thee 100K PSI 5.56
>and you WILL like it
--- 57843622
>>57843603
TIME TO PLINK BOI- *durrrrrsh*
--- 57843665
>>57838141
>an optic that's able to auto-aim headshot targets from a mile away
but can it 360 noscope?
--- 57843783
>>57839327
>muh soul
Just admit you wanted wood furniture becuase BRetards just can't leave the 1960s in the past.
--- 57843793
>>57840103
>do think purchasing all our small arms from one manufacturer would be a logistically and financially sound decision?
>NO ONLY A JEW WOULD THINK OF SUCH THINGS 
Man, I'm glad you'll never be in any position to make procurement decisions.
--- 57843827
>>57837602 (OP)
>no polymer ammo
Shit and cringe.
--- 57844075
Has anyone actually shot the actual full oomph the so called Sig fury round pray tell
--- 57845443
>>57841271
if it was just an AR-10 that would be cool but it's bad instead
>>57843783
needed more polymer and less aluminum
--- 57845481
>>57845443
Short stroke gas piston is based, especially since the rifle is meant to be run with a suppressor 24/7.

I get that DI is mechanically simpler and much cheaper to manufacture, with a few benefits in mud tests and shit, but those few benefits aren't really worth getting your panties in a twist over.

I doubt you COULD make a DI AR-10 in the same size footprint as the XM7.
--- 57845495
>>57845481
yeah but the (scaled up in this case) AR-18 action is trash, heavier and taller than an equivalent DI and buffer tube action
the only benefit is that it doesn't fart out the ejection port and you can remove the buffer tube
--- 57845505
>>57837602 (OP)
At least this one doesn't look like a fucking fish.
It WILL fail anyway, no matter what you autists say. They WILL walk back on the contract and keep the M4/M16/Big Black AR-15/Whatever.

America is a dead end nation.
--- 57845582
>>57845495
Sure, but a DI action would take up more length and fart in your mouth, we already know gas blowback is horrible for your health, the army doesn't want the VA having to pay out in 20 years when the boots who were running this rifle start to see their lungs fail.
--- 57845597
>>57845582
>take up more length
folding stocks are a meme, just use a non-collapsing polymer rifle stock (A1 length) and move on with your life
>fart in your mouth
don't be left handed I guess
gas blowback is not so bad with the lead-free primers but yeah NOx is... gross
you'll be fine unless you're huffing MG fumes all day
--- 57845605
>>57837602 (OP)
i hate that it looks like the mag was inserted backwards
--- 57845619
>>57845605
It was designed to be used by niggers, so no surprise.
--- 57845801
>>57838141
You're wrong about literally everything in your post, holy shit
--- 57845961
>>57838141
seeing M7fags think that a autoBDC in a LPVO turns a rifle in the hands of the typical 20-something army mouthbreather into a long range aimbot machine is one of the funniest developments of this shitshow
--- 57846008
>>57845961
It's incredible. I shit you not that multiple times I've seen them swear that the BDC is enough and that windage at 500m+ won't matter because "beeg boolet go fast." There is a nearly 24" deviation at 500m from a 10mph crosswind for Fury.
--- 57847797
>>57845505
I keep saying it doesn't even have to be walked back
The contract is miniscule enough that damage control was always in place for them to easily go "Yep, we're very happy with our new SCAR-H/HK417/AR10/M14 replacement" and not even be lying
--- 57848999
>>57838141
>It can blast through Russian body armor

Why would you invest in a gun to counter threats that simply don't exist?
--- 57851417
>>57845961
>>57846008
I'm not even sure how all that stuff got started. I remember seeing Vortex's patent documents posted ages ago and they made it pretty obvious how the scope works.
--- 57853039
>>57837821
ESL belong on /int/
--- 57853247
>>57846008
It's literally just .270 Winchester out of a short barrel.
--- 57853743
>>57837602 (OP)
You will never be a real gun. YWNBARG
--- 57853775
>>57853247
that was my first rifle caliber way back in the day :tear:
--- 57853819
Most people here who try to write off the m7 in about 1 sentence or just lazily "it's just (example that isn't even remotely close to what it is being compared to) it's all a scam" are dumbasses or people who can't get over sig winning the contract since their totally game changing bullpup whatever was definitely the better choice.
--- 57853865
>>57851417
It's because a good chunk of the proponents do not know anything about long range shooting, or shooting in general. They unironically think that getting the range down is the hardest element when it is by far and away the easiest in regards to making a shot that's really going out there.
--- 57853886
>>57853819
it's not as good as it could be therefore I hate it
--- 57854270
>>57838141
ruccians can barely make it 20mi outside their border anyway who cares
--- 57854299
>>57838141
Russians can afford body armor?
--- 57854328
>>57843472
>steel cope case on a joke cartridge
--- 57854581
>>57839354
>m7
>it's not a caseless 5.7 suppressed PCC
it's over
--- 57855633
>>57853886
How could it be better?
--- 57856287
Reminder that the SIG round averages over 80-90k psi while still being the slowest round. Reminder that the army required over 10k round barrel life. Reminder that SIG’s mat sci group couldn’t pull off polymer designs so they had to change to the shitty hybrid case, yet can supposedly somehow make better barrels than companies like rheinmetal.
I pity the poor grunt who gets the first failure.
--- 57857620
>>57837821
literally not a 30 cal, retard.
--- 57857715
>>57837602 (OP)
if you can't understand why a (gay) military doesn't want its infantry weapon to be 99% parts compatible with civilian weapons, you're ngmi
--- 57857874
>>57855633
lighter, softer recoiling
20" barrel
--- 57860667
>>57857874
so both larger and lighter weight, while ALSO reducing the recoil?

seems like physics would contradict that possibility.
--- 57861364
>>57860667
Not him but playing with the idea: 
A long-stroke piston has lighter perceived recoil than short-stroke pistons because it feels more like a push than a few light hits
C405/7050 series aluminum could replace 7075 to cut a few ounces while retaining strength. Or in the case of the handguard, keep the weight and strength it to increase rigidity. 
The longer barrel poses a problem. Maybe have it really thick around the chamber but tapered to a pencil profile? Or use a barrel sleeve design like on tanks/ what Armalite did with the original AR-10 against Stoner's recommendation
--- 57862379
>>57861364
DI
>>57860667
You'd need to sacrifice the folding stock and use more polymers but it wouldn't even be hard
the barrel is negotiable
--- 57862381
>>57854299
They meant "near 
-peer adversary"
--- 57862549
>>57838707
There’s still based Chinks as enemy.
--- 57862584
>>57837602 (OP)
Because it makes bullpup fags cry and they deserve to suffer for having shitty European tastes
--- 57862745
>>57837602 (OP)
RIP AR
--- 57862855
>>57845597
>>fart in your mouth
>don't be left handed I guess
Doesn't even do that if you're left handed
Suppressed I get smacked on the right cheek by unburnt powder from shitty Winchester ammo, that's about it.
--- 57863082
>>57840793
This, also retarded that they want a new service eifle that also is a dmr but they cut that rifle shorts as fuck, and as seen by the commercial hybrid ammo that’s available. It affects ballistics alot
--- 57863206
>>57843472
Get with the times grandpa. Hybrid cases are old and busted. Thin wall stainless steel is the new hotness.
--- 57864193
>>57838228
>you have a gun that scares me? Now I'm thinking about your dick! Checkmate, gun owner"
Sorry to inform you, but thinking about dicks is extremely gay
--- 57864337
>>57840216
What is this?
--- 57864726
>>57839410
Pretty much.
--- 57864740
>>57840014
Bullpups suck worse than Sigs.
Verification not required.
--- 57866027
>>57837821
I thought the new cartridge was 6mm ARC
--- 57869012
Because corruption and retardation, that's why.
--- 57869036
>>57838141
I can no longer tell when this is said as a joke or from a troll vs genuine belief by Siggers
--- 57869037
>ctrl+f drone
>0 results found

smart scope + ivas feeding aimbot tier aiming advice to grunt
+
grunt with heavier and harder hitting round
=
every infantry squad now has a fighting chance against enemy drones
=
US has widespread anti-drone capability built into every infantry soldier when countries are still figuring out how to use drones
--- 57869068
>>57839371
>The Sig Spear bridges the gap between Battle Rifles and Assault Rifles.
By having the weight of a battle rifle and the effect on armor of an assault rifle?

Post guns.
--- 57869099
>>57838906
>uh duhhh
Ok retard
--- 57869101
>>57838218
/k/ US mil criticis BTFO
Pentagon is the Chad
--- 57869231
>>57843793
>just have a monopoly on your weapons production
Man, I'm glad you'll never be in any position to make procurement decisions.
--- 57869253
>>57860667
Hmmmm if only there was a way to increase barrel length and therefore velocity meaning a lower pressure round could be used, all while not increasing OAL
--- 57869265
>>57869037
>smart scope + ivas feeding aimbot tier aiming advice to grunt
Which can be applied to any rifle 
>+
>grunt with heavier and harder hitting round
>=
>every infantry squad now has a fighting chance against enemy drones
What? How are grunts able to pick out drones from the sky with a rifle?
--- 57869911
>>57837602 (OP)
I'm going to buy one of these just to make /k/ seethe lmao
--- 57869943
>>57869253
bullpups are gay tho
--- 57869958
>>57869068
One of the lightest weight BRs ever made for it's capabilities, and more lethality than either .308 or 6.5meemoor, both of which can do considerably more against armor than 5.56.
This doesn't mean 6.8x51 (or 7.62) can pen the armor you're talking about, but it IS more effective than 5.56 even if neither one pens on the first shot.
--- 57870021
>>57864337
.264 licc

>>57869958
>it can't pen armor any better than the cartridge it was supposed to replace to pen armor, but if it lands a hit despite more recoil and less ammo the bruise on their ribs will be slightly wider
--- 57870058
>>57837602 (OP)
>why?
Because if you don't want M4s on Mars you have to start somewhere, unfortunately at this point in time there's no significant leap if technology that's going to necessitate something that different which is why the fish gun wasn't going to make it.
--- 57870061
>>57869958
>makes praise revolve around effect on armor 
>"it IS more effective than 5.56 even if neither one pens on the first shot."
Do SIG shill have actual brain parasites or something? Between not understanding windage, thinking a BDC turns the common grunt into a sniper, and this assumption that people are really getting nailed multiple times at range by infantry rifles, it's like all their knowledge about small arms combat comes from videogames.
--- 57870065
>>57870021

Considering it was never designed to penetrate high tier body armor, I don't really understand your point.

It was designed to go through light cover (walls, unarmored vehicles, etc) better than 5.56. It does that. It's ALSO flatter shooting, heavier, and faster. 


The idea that it was SUPPOSED to be able to penetrate level 4 rifle plates is just fuddlore fantasy cope you dumb fucks made up to shit on it.
--- 57870086
>>57870061
I'm just tired of morons like you pretending it's supposed to be some sniper round penetrating high tier body armor when it was NEVER intended to do that. It's intended to go through light cover like a single layer brick wall or some wood or sheet metal.


BUH MUH ARMOR PEN as if armor pen = penetrating BODY armor, not just generic greater penetration through ANY cover (the actual point of the program).
--- 57870098
>>57870065
>The idea that it was SUPPOSED to be able to penetrate level 4 rifle plates is just fuddlore fantasy cope you dumb fucks made up to shit on it.
you are absolutely fucking deluded if you think the detractors were the one spewing the armor pen meme and not the supporters. like straight up brain damaged.
--- 57870109
>>57870065
Penning peer body armor was the latest official justification, moron. Before that, it was range in afghanistan and in the program before NGSW it was stopping power for CQB. 

You're continuing the same series of rationalisations, but unlike the official copers you're denying the literal official justifications.
--- 57870111
>>57870098
Who the fuck cares who started it?

I don't give a single fuck who started saying it, if you're STILL saying it, you're a moron. And the people who STARTED saying it, are ALSO morons.
--- 57870117
>>57870086
>I'm just tired of morons like you pretending it's supposed to be some sniper round penetrating high tier body armor when it was NEVER intended to do that.
Ironic, considering skeptics like me were the ones always saying this and it was your ilk posting otherwise, but you do you famalam. 
>BUH MUH ARMOR PEN as if armor pen = penetrating BODY armor
No one refers to barrier penetration as armor penetration you literal retard, holy shit.
>not just generic greater penetration through ANY cover (the actual point of the program).
I cannot tell if you're being serious or not, this was never alluded to in any of the competition specs.
--- 57870122
>>57870109
>was the latest official justification
Show me ANYWHERE that OFFICIALLY claims this.

I've read the entire original project PPON that started the program, as well as watched the entire contract award announcement press conference.
--- 57870128
>>57870111
>YOU JUST SAID THIS TO SHIT ON IT
>no we didn't the whole reason it got brought up at all was because the pro_NGSW crows swore it would go through IV plates for weeks on end
>WHO CARES WHO STARTED IT
are you a woman?
--- 57870136
>>57870122
You cannot say that the whole point of the program was to increase blind barrier penetration capability and expect to be taken seriously. Why are you posting like you're on the verge of crying?
--- 57870149
>>57870136
I never said that was the ENTIRE point of the program, that was the ONLY point of penetration needs stated by the program ( you know, the specific thing we're talking about here?)


The overall goal of the program was to increase lethal engagement range while keeping ammo commonality throughout the squad.
--- 57870150
>>57870021
This is just wrong. Its supposed to give basic infantry the ability to reach out to 600 yards, thump through light-skinned vehicles, and defeat special threat plates (not level IV) in a similar size and weight package to 5.56 rifles. It does this. Its actually a great idea for an intermediate cartridge.
--- 57870151
>>57870122
>aaaaaaaa it was actually barrier pen all along
There's no reasoning with a liar like you.
--- 57870162
>>57870086
> as if armor pen = penetrating BODY armor not just generic greater penetration through ANY cover
Do you refer to cinder blocks, sheet metal and foliage as "armor"??
--- 57870175
>>57870151
I'm asking for the proof you said existed OFFICIALLY.

if asking you to provide proof of a claim you said was OFFICIAL justification, how the fuck am I supposed to believe ANYTHING you claim?
--- 57870178
>>57870149
>I never said that was the ENTIRE point of the program
>>57870086
>generic greater penetration through ANY cover (the actual point of the program).
please refer to >>57870128, are you a vagina-haver, because you argue like one.
--- 57870193
>>57870178
Yes, again in the context SPECIFICALLY of penetration, the point of THIS program was NOT to design a round to penetrate level 4 plates.
--- 57870194
>>57870150
>M7
>a similar size and weight package to 5.56 rifles
>an intermediate cartridge.
Okay I'm starting to think that these people are either shitposters or genuinely mentally ill.
--- 57870199
>>57870194
Nigger kill yourself, the army themselves refer to it as an intermediate cartridge.

ACHTUALLY faggots like yourself will point out it's a full-sized rifle cartridge, but so fucking what? The army is calling it intermediate.
--- 57870204
>>57870199
Active denial of reality, more support for my theory.
--- 57870219
>>57870204
Again, blame the most well funded military in the world for making that claim, not the people repeating what they say.


You just seem like a pedantic faggot the more you dig your heels in on that one in particular.
--- 57870231
>>57870199
A round with a135gr. projectile and 80k psi chamber pressure is not intermediate in any way shape or form. Do you consider 6.5 Creed and 7.62 NATO intermediate?
--- 57870239
>>57837602 (OP)
I dont know what it is but I dislike rifles without fixed iron sights. I dont mind optics but I NEED fixed irons (no flip ups)
--- 57870241
>>57870231
see >>57870219
--- 57870249
>>57870239
And I personally simply wouldn't buy a rifle with fixed iron sights. Ever.
--- 57870255
>>57870199
>>57870219
>THE *AMRY* SAID SO
the army has repeatedly proven its capacity for retardation which anyone who has served would be able to tell you, use your brain you hyperemotional faggot, if you think this shit is actually intermediate then you might as well consider any full-powered rifle round intermediate as well
--- 57870263
>>57870249
Thats alright anon. How about carry handles ?
--- 57870274
>>57870263
If it's collapsable maybe.

If it's like on the M16 or similar i'd rather eat a bullet.
--- 57870275
>>57870241
Even if they said that, they're wrong. It's nto intermediate, and you thinking it is just because some nimrod with a rank said it was makes me wonder what you know about shooting period.

Anywho, it's a nice Sunday and I'm going to spend it shooting steel at 300m, not arguing with a likely gunless troll having fits of autism rage.
--- 57870288
>>57839520
yep. the XM7 is a rifle to fight the last war. Doesn't make ANY sense for a highly mechanized and urban Pacific war that we expect to fight by the end of the decade
--- 57870290
>>57870199
>the army themselves refer to it as an intermediate cartridge.
they're wrong then, if they said the sky was green would you believe them? because that's essentially what they're doing here, if they actually said that at all.
--- 57870297
>>57870275
>>57870255
Get over it, the round was created after the army ran several research programs on a replacement intermediate caliber round, they determined a larger round than 5.56 was needed, so they settled on 6.5-6.8mm bullet this eventually finalized to a 6.8x51 bullet/catridge.

Since all of this originally started with the goal of making a new intermediate caliber, that's what the army calls it even if by traditional standards, it is full-size.
--- 57870307
>>57870297
>the army says it's an intermediate round so it's an intermediate round
my guy you are actually retarded, I hope you're realizing this
--- 57870326
>>57870297
>>57870219
>>57870199
>>57870111
>>57870086
You have to be 18 to post here
--- 57870329
Honestly glad I never bought Sigshit despite living in New England where it is held in such high regard because there's a manufacturing plant in NH as well as training facility. Every person I know with a gun has a Sig lmao
>>57838141
This picture just makes me mad that the tens of thousands I pay in taxes each year are going to niggers and goblinos to have this stuff instead of me.
--- 57870331
>>57870307
You're also the retard that thinks the army wants it to pen level 4 armor despite never having said that's what they want.


>>57870326
Good thing I'm 31 then.
--- 57870340
>>57870331
You're 31 and you have the emotional posting style of a 14 year old redditor? Damn.
--- 57870348
>>57870274
damn ok brother
--- 57870358
>>57870331
>You're also the retard that thinks the army wants it to pen level 4 armor
nah, but cool backtracking attempt you noguns moron, lmfao
--- 57870374
>>57870340
>the emotional posting style
LE REDDIT POSTING MAYMAY?!@?!?!

"reddit" posting as a meme was created to let newfags (like yourself) call someone out for "reddit" posting which was just allowing yourself to signal to everyone else that you were a newfag.

"Reddit" posting as a format style has existed since before 4chan even existed, since it's a stylistic holdover that was popularized on tech forums and other online forum communities in the late '90s and early '00s.
--- 57870379
>>57870297
>>57870219
>>57870199
--- 57870393
>>57870374
My dude are you okay?
--- 57870402
>>57870393
Did you read the first line and assume it was some breakdown or something?

I'm fine, I'm more worried about you since you've soundly outed yourself as a newfag.
--- 57870405
>somewhere out there is a 30-something loser spending his sunday soaking his keyboard with tears of rage as he defends a rifle he will never touch, let alone shoot
--- 57870416
>>57870405
I like how to "win" you have to pretend I'm somehow angry and crying lmao
--- 57870424
>>57870402
> I'm more worried about you since you've soundly outed yourself as a newfag.
only a sigger could post this without any hint of irony.
--- 57870437
>>57837602 (OP)
MIC grift

Expect this to get dropped and everyone goes back to the M4

>inb4 cope
--- 57870441
>>57870424
Only a braindead retard thinks that me pointing out how the gun isn't shit and does exactly what the army asked for somehow makes me a "sigger".

I don't even own ANY SIG products.

I've got a Benelli M4 and I'm debating on AR, but haven't made any decisions yet.
--- 57870457
>>57870441
>I don't even own ANY SIG products.
you don't own any guns period dude lol
--- 57870471
>>57870162
He's retarded.
--- 57870491
>>57870457
Besides my Benelli M4 I also have an old Remington 870.

I live in a state where handgun purchase is dumb and ARs are also restricted and harder to get generic models. 

In this state the only easy guns to buy are shotguns or bolt action rifles.
--- 57870556
>>57869943
Which is the inclusivity the modern army wants
--- 57870574
>>57869958
>One of the lightest weight BRs ever made for it's capabilities
It’s 13.5lbs. 
>and more lethality than either .308 or 6.5meemoor
Not in any practical sense with bullets of similar construction. Explain to me where there is a lethal hit with 6.8 that would not be a lethal hit with the other 2 in the same place. 
>both of which can do considerably more against armor than 5.56.
Still requires multiple shots to penetrate 

You didn’t post guns. Hmm I wonder why. Even tiny ones like this are fine.
--- 57870590
>>57870574
>It’s 13.5lbs.
loaded, with optic and suppressor and other accessories.

A fully kitted M4 can push 11+lbs too.
--- 57870597
>>57870058
>Because if you don't want M4s on Mars
I do want M4s on Mars. 1911s and M2s
also
--- 57870610
>>57870086
>enetrating high tier body armor when it was NEVER intended to do that.
Then why did you bring it up first? You disingenuous faggot
--- 57870631
>>57870590
>A fully kitted M4 can push 11+lbs too.
No it can't.
--- 57870632
>>57870111
>Who the fuck cares who started it?
Everyone. Because you started it. Then backpedaled faster than primetime could. 

Are you jewish?
--- 57870712
>>57870491
>In this state the only easy guns to buy are shotguns or bolt action rifles.
Why aren't you being specific about the state, that narrows it down to a small handful already.
--- 57871359
>>57837821
Based af fuck 5.56 nigger amerishits. .30 cal and 8mm Mauser are the lord's caliber
--- 57871642
>>57870631
Not him, but yes it can with a Vortex Razor and PEQ-15, RC2, sling, and loaded magazine, it gets a little over 11 pounds. If you replace the Razor with an Aimpoint and the RC2 with the Mini 2, you're back to around 10 pounds.
--- 57871704
>>57837602 (OP)
This is such an ugly fucking abomination of a gun. It looks like it belongs in that "in-between" era of experimental guns that never took off, except this is the nightmare alternate reality where it did take off and got adopted.
--- 57871722
>>57870631
Lmao yes they can, and often do. Try actually being a grunt.
--- 57872107
>>57870150
>in a similar size and weight package to 5.56 rifles
If that was the goal they failed
--- 57872140
>>57870199
The army also says a man can cut off his dick and be a woman. That doesn’t make it true
--- 57872288
>a bunch of skinnyfat nerds and obese bubbas reeing at each other about a weapons system they'll likely never put their stubby Cheeto snatchers on because they can't afford it/won't or can't join the military for a litany of psychological and physiological reasons 

Never change /k/, this is why I still come here
--- 57872322
>>57870297
>intermediate caliber round, they determined a larger round than 5.56 was needed
>larger
>than intermediate
>nooooooo it’s still intermediate
Post hand and guns
--- 57872341
>>57870441
>I've got a Benelli M4
Then post it
--- 57872359
>>57870590
Which is a 23% increase before factoring in mags. It’s another 2.4lbs of ammo with just 6 mags which is a 40% increase
--- 57872457
>>57837602 (OP)
I'm halfway convinced it was just to have caliber parity with MG adoption
The M250 is legitimately a good upgrade over the 249, and will probably take over the 240 as well just for weight considerations alone
--- 57872522
It's the inverse of what the marines did by requesting and adopting the M27 to replace the M249 but right after adoption they hoodwinked ordnance and said they're replacing their M4/16s with it instead.
The Army wanted to replace their 308 rifles and GPMG at the same time, so they adopted this. They're not gonna stop using their M4s.
--- 57873155
>>57839501
Canada banned a ton of assault rifles by name, but the Tarvor wasn't one of them, so this may be the leaf gun of choice in a few years time.
--- 57873242
>>57870631
>being this fucking stupid.
jej
--- 57873328
>>57838218
This is a monkey's paw wish. It's worse than no battle rifle at all.
--- 57873508
>>57870631
kek
--- 57873544
>>57872457
>probably take over the 240 as well
There's no reason for it not to replace the 240 and 249 since it does everything the 240 does but better
The XM7 would be a good replacement for SDMRs
But increasing the rifleman's loadout by that much is retarded. 
If the Army really cared about overmatch and replacing the M4, they would have asked for a rifle built from the ground up to fire 6mm ARC. They can even keep the hybrid case design to get even more range out of it. Or, if they're dead set on .277, they could resurrect and update 6.8 SPC with VLD bullets and the hybrid case, but they'll have to build a gun from the ground up again. There would still be a weight increase, but not 25-40% like >>57872359 said. Magazines would still be a more reasonable size with decent capacity. Loadouts of the same weight would be around 150-180 rounds vs 180-210 with 5.56.
--- 57873589
>>57873544
>There's no reason for it not to replace the 240 and 249 since it does everything the 240 does but better
It doesn't have a quick change barrel (by army choice, SIG offered it). so it's unsuitable for sustained fire MG roles that the M240 is capable of.
--- 57873747
>>57873544
>Magazines would still be a more reasonable size with decent capacity. Loadouts of the same weight would be around 150-180 rounds vs 180-210 with 5.56.
Thats what kills me. It’s not that 5.56 is perfect but number of rounds matter and every way since the civil war has shown that. Something with 24-26 rounds isn’t as big of a loss (or weight increase) as going to 20 rounds of 6.8. You keep at least 80% of your total ammo vs 67%. When we inevitable switch back to 5.56 or something that holds 30 rounds or more it’ll be pitched as a 50% increase from 6.8 and makes our soldiers more lethal. Calling it now.
--- 57873766
>>57843472
>>57870255
Fellas, I don't understand, what's so revolutionary about those hybrid casings?

Couldn't the same performance be achieved with, you know, ultra cheap full steel casings?
--- 57874074
>>57873766
No, because the traditional brass cartridge is achieved through several drawing and ironing steps followed by annealing steps. What you get at the end is a one-piece cartridge where the head of the case is work-hardened, the walls less so, and the mouth of the case is annealed by just heating up that section (military brass is discolored near the mouth and left that way on purpose as part of milspec requirement, commercial cases usually get a final wash and polish). This gives you a case head that can withstand the pressure when backed by the breech, a case wall that expands against the chamber during firing, and a mouth that can be tensioned to hold the bullet on its own, with the crimp being assurance in military settings.
When you make a full steel case, now you have to use a steel alloy that won't fuck up your extractor but also gives you all these neat properties. You can't really get that, so the compromise is steel cases that don't actually expand as much as brass. You try to now add the performance being achieved with 6.8 Sig and you'll be using an alloy that's going to fuck up all your drawing dies due to hardness and toughness requirements, possibly get all sorts of problems like case ruptures during firing or even damaging the bullet jacket during loading.
--- 57874153
>>57872359
Don't forget the best part, a combat loadoat of 140 rounds. It's comical.
--- 57874166
>rains supreme
--- 57874178
>>57870199
I really wish you could step back and take in how fucking stupid you are. It would take your breath away.
--- 57874184
>>57874074
Damn, didn't expect to hear a good explaination on this basket weaving forum. Thanks
--- 57874188
>>57837602 (OP)
This is really weird. Is it even that much better than the M16? The US has discarded rifles before for this reason. It also seems like a scumbag move for the US to switch ammo for no reason. I thought part of the point was NATO all share the same ammo type.
I don't understand it
--- 57874231
>>57874184
Any time, fren
--- 57874317
fucking kek. some shit is so obvious
--- 57874566
>>57840028
The taxpayers who fund this and the soldiers who use it lose.
--- 57874604
>>57838991
Sick, now we can't even crossroad with our own.
--- 57874618
>>57870150
>Its supposed to give basic infantry the ability to reach out to 600 yards
I don't think you fully grasp what 600 yards looks like, how rare having a line of sight that far is in a battlefield, or how relatively little a 1-8x LPVO is going to matter at that distance, especially when you put it in the hands of infantry that I can tell you from personal experience have a striking inability to take a shot at a 300 yard pop-up even with a 4x ACOG.
>in a similar size and weight package to 5.56 rifles
13+ pounds fully loaded and a full yard in length...
>It does this
It doesn't, categorically.
>Its actually a great idea for an intermediate cartridge.
.277 SIG Fury is not an intermediate cartridge, full stop.

Do the proponents of this rifle actually know anything about it?
--- 57874639
>>57839371
Literally it still can't penetrate body armor
--- 57874667
>>57839371
>The Sig Spear bridges the gap between Battle Rifles and Assault Rifles.
By weighing more than an M-14 and shooting a round that's weight virtually the same and is 20k psi hotter than M80 Ball?
--- 57874677
>>57874667
that weighs virtually the same as and is*
Fucking thumb typing
--- 57874738
>>57873766
>Couldn't the same performance be achieved with, you know, ultra cheap full steel casings?
It's called thinwall steel or thinwall stainless steel cases. It's what FN's rifle in >>57840216 uses.
--- 57874847
>>57869911
Long as you use your own money instead of mine, it's your cross to bear
--- 57875046
>>57871359
amen brother. let's just use a hybrid case and overcharge .308. fuck that varmint round.
--- 57875054
>>57837627
Copied the USMC's H&K nepotism
--- 57875197
>>57873766
Brass seals better against the chamber which helps with pressure and it’s also easier to extract. Steel cases cause more erosion in the chamber which is already going to suck with the specs of this round. Not saying it can’t be done with just steel, but there are reasons brass is used
--- 57875467
>>57870297
>"Even if it's not, they said so!"
--- 57875491
>>57870712
Probably a Canuck LARPing as an american
--- 57875544
>>57837602 (OP)
More Americans have class 4 plates than most armies. Figure it out.
--- 57875604
>>57870712
Yeah it's, what, MD, NJ, CT, MA, and maybe just recently WA?
--- 57875633
>The .mil NEVER said AP was a requirement!
https://apps.dtic.mil/descriptivesum/Y2021/Army/stamped/U_0603639A_4_PB_2021.pdf
This shit has been a thing since ICSR was trying to be rammed through by HK & SIG shills in the government.
--- 57875663
>>57875633
TFB has a ton of articles about ICSR/SDMR/NGSW and MUH ARMOR PIERCING
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/02/08/m110a1-csass-sdmr-fielded-2018-advap-2019/
SIGgers think we all have short memories, I guess.
--- 57875682
>>57848999
Im andmmm>>57875544
I’m amazed how few anons get this.
--- 57875686
>>57837602 (OP)
To penetrate armor (which it doesn't do) allow longer engagement ranges for the hills and mountains of Afghanistan (which we left) and uh, well, the machinegun is pretty good
>>57839271
they won by default when the only competition of note was a bullpup, nobody wants that shit
--- 57876590
>>57845801
>t. Asshurt Ivan
Shouldnt you be waiting for your daily ass ream by your nco
--- 57876641
>>57875604
NJfag here
I feel a bizarre mixture of relief and annoyance that getting my MP15 was much, much easier than getting my Glock was