-----
--- 57853269
Has the war in Ukraine retroactively froze any attempts at Taiwan? China always viewed Russia as the muscle in the relationship, who would grind down the west while China blitzed the Pacific. But now that their faithful second has proven themselves completely helpless in the face of a real war, how can China comfortably push the button on WW3? It would be like pulling a ball and chain.
--- 57853319
China will probably keep Taiwan in their pocket up until they desperately need an external enemy to quell internal strife. I doubt the top ching chongs wanted to take such a risk any time soon anyway.
--- 57853369
>>57853269 (OP)
>Retroactively
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
I understand your point though
Hard to say, rationally yes this should be a wake-up call for China that it is hilariously outgunned by the West
But practically speaking, their may be backroom politics taking precedence over common sense and rationality 

After all, it's not like the Chinese generals are going to make the mistake of their Russian counterparts and operate within firing distance of the enemy. They might be making the sociopathic calculation that the deaths of hundreds of thousands of not millions of Chinese soldiers is worth retaking Taiwan, even if they're outgunned and need to meatgrind for it.
--- 57853402
>>57853269 (OP)
The answer, according to our resident chinkshill, is that China...is waiting on "the US to be on the table", meaning China only wants to take Taiwan when the US is fully committed to defending it so they can defeat America (and another Coalition of the Willing) and finally seize their destiny. As you might have guessed, our resident chinkshill is retarded.
--- 57853415
>>57853369
In a war against the United States itself and not a proxy, no enemy general is operating outside firing distance.
--- 57853499
>>57853415
Ehhhh... I mean on paper yes, but the military isn't going to just start lobbing missiles and shells into Chinese cities and military bases without China escalating first. We're not barbaric Russians, it's not worth the civilian blowback to maybe bag a few top brass, unless we can do a surgical strike with extremely high confidence of success. And of course the Chinese generals know we have things like the ninja drone, so they're going to take precautions accordingly

Again though I would be fairly confident China is going to bluster and then fold, they're intelligent enough (I think) to not actively participate in their own forced demilitarization. We want them to attack right now, so they (hopefully) know better than to fall for the bait.
--- 57853519
>>57853269 (OP)
The opening phases of Ukraine showed what outdated memes ballistic missiles are, which are a weapon type China heavily relies on for offensive capabilities
--- 57853550
>>57853519
How so?
--- 57853577
>>57853550
Russian ballistic missiles kept missing
--- 57853589
>>57853269 (OP)
China freezes any attempts at Taiwan. China fears embarrassment more than anything so they won't do something unless they're 100% sure they can do it, and Taiwan isn't a 100%. Plus it makes them a pariah and that would significantly hurt their globally connected economy
--- 57853600
>>57853499
Imagine a world where both China and Russia lay broken before America. Finally the Reds will die and the world will belong to us.
--- 57853621
>>57853269 (OP)
China is never gonna attempt to retake Taiwan by force. They can only threaten, it's way to risky even in the best case scenario. 

Most likely, China was Taiwan to rejoin willingly and will try to influence the culture of the country in order to make it happen. Threatening military invasion only gives whatever political party a justification for reunification, to prevent a world war.
--- 57853637
>>57853519
Anon, just because Russia is a fuck up doesn't mean a weapon system is useless.

>>57853499
Taiwan is a nice saberrattle but the smart money would be on cementing the 'Stans as Chinese vassals.
--- 57853800
>>57853637
I agree, though personally my dark horse is Vladivostok becoming Chinese as part of some renegotiation that gives Russia weapons and security in exchange for de facto vassal status and land.

Obviously Russia doesn't want to part with its only major eastern port, but give them another year in the cauldron and they may have no choice.
--- 57853904
Most definitely. Reminder that Xi literally told Putin he couldn't invade until after the Winter Olympics. Vatniks really like to memory hole that one because it shows just how much of a vassal state Russia is to China. 

I guarantee that China expected the Russian invasion of Ukraine to go much, much better than it actually ended up going and did not expect the West to respond nearly as much as they did. Ukraine was basically a test (for China) to see how the West might respond to a Taiwan invasion, and it certainly did not go the way China had hoped. I mean honestly I don't think anyone expected the US, let alone NATO to stand up for Ukraine the way they did. NATO was seriously on the verge of dying in likely 5-10 years time and the Ukrainian war has completely revived NATO as even cucked countries like Germany are forced to see that Russia was never an ally that you could trust and that you need to actually invest in your military. 

I don't see China actually invading Taiwan now for at least another 5-10 years. I can't imagine the rage the Chinese leadership has to be feeling towards Russia for their ineptitude in Ukraine and how they couldn't even perform their role of keeping NATO occupied. NATO hasn't even felt bothered to send any of its valuable equipment to Ukraine like our jets, naval power or actual soldiers as our Cold War era surplus has been more than a match for Russian military equipment and the Ukrainian soldiers, despite being outnumbered and outgunned in the beginning, were able to stop the Russian push towards Kyiv before any major Western aid, sans very low numbers of Javelins & NLAW's, had arrived.
--- 57853923
>>57853637
Ballistic missiles in general have a wide CEP, which is part of the reason the West doesn't use conventionally armed ones much anymore
--- 57854008
>>57853904
Is it because of the Olympics or was it just a coincidence because that's around the time the snow starts to clear up?
--- 57854041
>>57853904
It's questionable if China will be interested in Taiwan in 5-10 years considering how its current trajectory comes from Xi Jinping's goals and he's 69.
--- 57854056
>>57854008

Russia had wanted to invade much earlier than February but was told "no" by China because of the focus on the Winter Olympics and thus the terrain of Ukraine in late February was very unfavorable for an invasion
--- 57854099
>>57853904
Not invading Ukraine would have been the most big brained move Russia could have made, it would have embarrassed the US as Saber raddlers, they could have continued to infiltrate German politics and continued to show that NATO isn't needed anymore.
--- 57854119
>>57854041

Exactly, and that's why I said I can't imagine the hostility and rage Xi's party must be feeling towards Russia for likely completely fucking up China's Taiwan plan. China going through with a Taiwan invasion now would be met with complete disaster, where-as in a world where the Ukrainian invasion went differently, NATO would be too focused with defending Ukraine from a competent Russian military to be able to also protect Taiwan.

Again though, I really want this point driven home to the Vatniks on this board, it REALLY shows just how China truly thinks of Russia. China does NOT think of Russia as allies, they think of them as pawns, and China wouldn't hesitate for a second to start seizing/demanding Russian territory if they knew Russia became too weak.

>>57854099

Hell, it would've been big brained for Russia if they had just retreated completely from Ukraine after the failed Kyiv invasion and from the shitshow that they had created, took the L, and rebuilt their military for a renewed push in another 10 years. But that would mean Putin wouldn't be the one to take Ukraine, and thus Putin isn't willing to accept such a thing. They could've easily spun it to their citizens as, "See, look, we were winning but it took all of NATO to stop us and now we retreat for now to save our strength" or some bullshit. Now it's far too late for Russia to retreat as the losses its suffered are too great for Putin and his administration to get off easily should he man up and accept responsibility for his fuckup.
--- 57854199
>>57854119
Putin really only cares about staying in power and this war will likely keep him in power. Anyone with reformist or democratic thinking has likely left Russia. It's why Putin didn't give a shit that 300000 Russians fled when he announced mobilization. He wanted those people gone. This whole war has been about avoiding a euromaiden in Moscow.
--- 57854531
>>57854041
That's precisely why Xi will order the invasion of Taiwan before he croaks. Also which guy is willing to tell him no? He's already purged most of the military and political opponents. Now he's going after his own fellow red nobility that goes out of line.
--- 57854570
>>57853499
See, China should do the smart thing and saber rattle when politically expedient while having no actual intention of doing it and ruining their economy by causing foreign businesses to leave. The problem is, Xi is Biden-tier retarded, except Biden has people who ignore his stupid decisions and carry on with business as usual sometimes, Xi just has yesmen.
--- 57854585
>>57853923
So in short, the idea that China will just fire 1000 of them at all the US bases and aircraft carriers is retarded?
--- 57854626
>>57853600
But who would we be gearing up to destroy then? I feel like its a dog chasing a car situation. What will he do when he catches it?
--- 57854652
>>57854119
Wonder if the Chinky Winkies will invade Russia to score points internationally at some point. They probably need to blood their officer and NCO corps
--- 57854731
>>57854626
Roman plight I imagine. Once we defeat all known enemies we have a civil war. Or I don't know invade Brazil? They're pretty big I'm sure that'll take a couple years or so. Russia is taking a while with Ukraine so maybe we can stretch it too. We got 20 years outta Afghanistan so Brazil should be better....... Yeah you are right I'm starting to feel existential dread. What does the worlds largest military do when we beat everyone? Do we just become Edo Japan and larp among ourselves for centuries? One of you fuckers get good so we can fight you.
--- 57854749
>>57853369
By the way, wasn't China building a dam to block certain people from receiving water?

And then there is certain rice farmer country who happens to dislike China too.

I know both indians and vietnamese love to troll americans on many things, but by the end of the day they see USA as their friend and ally (former is tsundere due the whole business with Pakistan, the later is the biggest yangire on the planet), and they will be all too happy to jump on the opportunity to open their own fronts against China if it comes to grip with USA, I can't see the chinese winning that one.
--- 57854752
>>57853269 (OP)
Russia could easily rebuild and re-arm and continue being the bear that divides the west's attention. And this time without the terrible conditions of only invading with only 200k men because they expected far weaker resistance. Probably wouldn't matter either way, China's in a far better position at having the upper hand at attempting Taiwan than Russia was attempting Ukraine:

-It would be taking place in their backyard while the US would be strained by the tyranny of distance
-They have a well-trained navy that at this point is in a better state than the US Navy's
-PLAAF training is comparable to USAF training; very likely that they will field thousands of airframes by 2030
-Their missiles have every US base in range ready to shutdown the moment the shooting begins, adding massive logistical pain
-They have reserves of food and energy that will last them years with rationing at current levels

For all of this, the only allies the US could count on in the area are token forces provided by Australia and UK.
Unlike with Ukraine Europe is not going to get involved if China decides to invade/blockade Taiwan.
SK isn't getting involved because they have NK to deal with and don't fancy getting glassed themselves.
With Japan it's a toss-up, but given their stagnant economy, overall pacifist population, and shit demographics, it's unlikely they'll want to have their cities destroyed either and their young dying by the thousands.

Underestimate China at your own peril given the facts above
--- 57854773
>>57854752
You should also remind them America still hasn't developed any hypersonic missile.
--- 57854812
>>57854773
ICBM's are hypersonic dipshit
--- 57854820
>>57854812
no it's not. Don't ever talk this anymore you fuckin clown.
--- 57854838
>>57854731
Rome never dealt with the Persians successfully. Or all the Germans.
>>57854626
Aliens. We're ready to go on to the larger stage, space warfare.
--- 57854844
>>57854773
We have had them since the 50s.
--- 57854847
>>57854585
Yes
--- 57854907
>>57854844
Not HGVs
--- 57854926
>>57853499
We put that missile into the correct *seat* of a moving car. I think you could say we're pretty confident in the surgical scale of our abilities.
--- 57854935
>>57853637
>the smart money would be on cementing the 'Stans as Chinese vassals.
China cant even reliably cement an apartment floor.
--- 57854937
>>57854907
Oh yeah sorry that's actually '60s tech
--- 57855038
>>57854531

The US will arrest Xi's daughter and pass her to the CCP to be tortured and killed.

Xi won't do shit. He keeps postponing (now 2027) but keeps it alive to keep the PLA hardliners in line, while continuing to purge them
--- 57855055
>>57854652

Invading Russians fight Ukraine half heartedly (the officers never go on assaults and half ass their planning, training and logistics for eg), but they will whole heartedly kill Chinese invaders in the Far East. It will be WW2 tier plus nukes
--- 57855072
>>57854820

ICBMs are Mach 25 so they are.

you are such a retard chink. hypersonic missiles have been around since 60s, its the steerable, low flying, air breathing types that the US is developing only that are new
--- 57855192
>>57854752
You forgot to mention that Xi can personally sink carriers with Chi blasts
--- 57855241
>>57855072
You are fuckin a clown in /k/. Nobody even wants to reply to you. Know better and get the fuck out of this board.
--- 57855340
>>57853637
>Taiwan is a nice saberrattle but the smart money would be on cementing the 'Stans as Chinese vassals.
Smart money is "literally continue to manufacture shit and grow economy, get some siberian clay from russia since they're now your bitch"
but as russia clearly demonstrated countries aren't necessarily rational actors. also control over taiwan is china's gateway to putting pressure on a number of west-aligned countries like worst korea and japan so IF they could get taiwan without a very high cost it might be worth it for them
--- 57855354
>>57855241
>you are fuckin a clown in /k/

Uhhhh MODS?? This is a blue board wtf???
--- 57855355
>>57853269 (OP)
All of the CCP has VAIDS from the covid vax. Even Xi.
>They are all becoming gay and sick and will soon die
--- 57855370
>>57854652
>Wonder if the Chinky Winkies will invade Russia to score points internationally at some point
how do you get past nooks in this scenario? barring absolute cockup by the chinks (eminently possible) a drawn-out conflict with china isn't something russia could reasonably win
--- 57855444
>>57855055
If russia fires a nuke and it fails the chinese will feel that they can take russia. Chinas ministry of resources is already redrawing maps of Siberia to be part of china. With the west showing that their weapons work the chinese have probably calculated that the cost to take Taiwan is too high. The Russians however have shown themselves to be weak and incompetent taking Siberia would cost relatively little if nukes were not involved. China already has more people lighting along the border with russia than russia has in population. I can see them pulling something similar to what the jews pulled on Palestine if they don't have to worry about getting a few cities nuked.
--- 57855471
>>57853319
>China will probably keep Taiwan in their pocket up until they desperately need an external enemy to quell internal strife. I doubt the top ching chongs wanted to take such a risk any time soon anyway.
This for the most part.

>>57853499
>the military isn't going to just start lobbing missiles and shells into Chinese cities and military bases without China escalating first. We're not barbaric Russians, it's not worth the civilian blowback to maybe bag a few top brass,
The US is heavily infiltrated by mainland Chinese diaspora and pro-Chinese business elite. So that's the main reason.

>>57853589
>China freezes any attempts at Taiwan. China fears embarrassment more than anything so they won't do something unless they're 100% sure they can do it, and Taiwan isn't a 100%. Plus it makes them a pariah and that would significantly hurt their globally connected economy
It's hard to become a pariah that way if the other countries already don't recognize Taiwan. Aside from the US, everyone else thinks the PRC owns Taiwan.

>>57853519
>The opening phases of Ukraine showed what outdated memes ballistic missiles are, which are a weapon type China heavily relies on for offensive capabilities
Russia was trying not to be blow anything in Ukraine the first days and weeks of the war!

>>57853904
>Most definitely. Reminder that Xi literally told Putin he couldn't invade until after the Winter Olympics. Vatniks really like to memory hole that one because it shows just how much of a vassal state Russia is to China.
I doubt that ever happened. Russia invaded Crimea near the end of the 2014 Winter Olympics which were also held in Russian-held Sochi. They did the same thing in 2022 but a week later.

>>57854056
>Russia had wanted to invade much earlier than February but was told "no" by China because of the focus on the Winter Olympics
Absolutely not. That would have been a far worse time to invade Ukraine when winter was in full swing.
--- 57855488
>>57853269 (OP)
Taiwan was never going to happen. China simply can't admit it (nor America really, China HAS to look like a threat), thus its just a dick measuring contest like Star Wars program in the Cold War. US is dependant on China and vice versa. Retards like Trump, and some no-doubt existing Trump equivalents in China want to change that, but it would only fuck up their own economies. The only way Taiwan falls is if US gets USSR'd out of existance.
--- 57855533
>>57855488
>russia isn't actually stupid enough to start a land war of conquest in europe and their economy is very reliable on the west
--- 57855543
>>57855533
>is very reliable on the west
reliant*
it's the opposite of reliable
--- 57855586
>>57854531
>He's already purged most of the military and political opponents.
So did Beria, it didn't save him from literally who Khrushchev. Around apparatchiks never relax.
--- 57855762
>>57855471
>The US is heavily infiltrated by mainland Chinese diaspora and pro-Chinese business elite. So that's the main reason.

Just like EU was infiltarted by Russian sympathizers.

USA might be taking notes and planning to deal with this over next decade.
--- 57855826
>>57853369
One child policy biting them in the butts again as only sons die
--- 57856007
>>57855762
>Just like EU was infiltarted by Russian sympathizers.
and they haven't accomplished much when shit got real
if anything, the lesson here is that the fifth column isn't all that effective when you get up to actual mischief, even if you have retards like Cuckson and a third of german/french government shilling for you.
in america in particular I wouldn't want to be arguing for muh chinks dindu nuffin once the population gets primed into proper government-mandated patriotic fervor
--- 57856129
The US has had to stretch their resources to cover additional deterrent needs in Europe and to provide support to Ukraine.
We have also seen US military industry begin to mobilise to a limited extent, patriot missile, GMLRS, radars, military UAS ect will all likely see their production expanded over the next few years. China might see that as somewhat threatening and aim to pre-empt it.
Shipment of deterrent weapons to Taiwan are likely delayed/reduced as well because of this.

This has arguably made it more, not less, likely for China to attempt something around Taiwan.
If something big happened in the middle east for example, you could end up seeing the US mil industry and forces stretched over three possible fronts if China decided to create a Taiwan crisis.

A crisis over the straight of Hormuz for example might see the USN have to divert considerable resources on top of their already increased tasking in the north Atlantic and Baltic.

IMO it's still highly unlikely, China ultimately stands to gain from simply waiting; it would take a serious international or national crisis to force China to act IMO.
I think that the perception of a window of Chinese opportunity In US strategy circles is largely wrong, in fact if anything it's the United States that has a window of action this decade Vis China and Taiwan.
A lot of the low hanging fruit in regards to improving the deterrent capabilities of Allied forces, mostly through alliances and agreements, has already been picked.
The Chinese capability to take the island will improve much more rapidly than the allied capability to defend it in my view, they stand to gain from waiting.
--- 57856334
>>57855762
>>57856007
It's really not the same. There was/is very little modern Russian diaspora in Europe compared to the US where major cities and colleges are flooded with Chinese people. Most US corporations and private equity firms are openly pro-China, whether that's wanting to increase investment or actively push back when the US wrote legislature to "ban" the import of goods made from forced labor in China.

In Europe there was always some states including Poland warning about Russia, and the US did the same. With the US there's nobody else in that position when it comes to China and the US that has to do it entirely on its own. That's why China got another decade green-light to do whatever it wanted in the 2010s and had done the most damage then.

The US and Australia only started opening their eyes at the end of the decade and had to drag the UK to go along with it. The rest of Europe still doesn't care about China's abuses, expansionism and capture of global governance orgs. France and Germany want to get closer to it. BBC World News often does damage-control for China including lying about the US' version of "One China Policy". Western and US media rarely covers China; no mentions of their harassment of and even kidnapping attempts of dissidents in the West, their espionage and theft of trade, academic and security secrets, or their border expansions.

Many European states even have extradition treaties with China. There's been many cases around the world where Taiwanese people and oppressed minorities have been sent to the PRC. There's Confucius Institutes and secret Chinese overseas police stations all over the West, the former directly working with colleges. Greece sold off their Piraeus port to China, vetoed an EU resolution condemning China's rights abuses, and during the Olympic torch procession they banned anti-CCP protestors in violation of the EU's own laws. Business and real estate in Italy and Canada have been bought by China left and right.
--- 57856365
>>57854008
vatniks wanted chang help in dodging things like sanctions on boyars personal accounts. Which vatniks expected to be the maximum what to expect from the west based off 2014. Which changs agreed to in exchange for not overshadowing their prestigious olympics.
--- 57856369
>>57856334
The only thing ive heard from the BBC that is supposed to be negative about china is the oppression of muslims, which actually makes me more positive about china.
--- 57856384
>>57855370
by having also big, scary NOOKS aimed at Moscow. Just as vatnigs claim allegedly to have working ones they could aim at Beijing. End result is local, limited exchanges or a pure coventional war like Ukraine
--- 57856393
>>57856290
You are pretending like racism doesn’t exist and can’t/hasn’t been weaponized by the US government in wartime
--- 57856413
>>57856334
I remember the state level forced organ harvesting camp system report coming out presented by Pompeo but since it was le evil orange hitlers crew, it went completely ignored or disgustingly spun in a pro commie regime spin with the remnant media trash

tbf regarding the chink cop stations blackmailing and threatening in other sovereign countries, at least western ones have started to crack down on that shit.
--- 57856424
>>57856393
modern day heresy aka racism has not been much of thing ever for at least the second half of the 20th century with western civilization. Now cultist woketards aggressively race baiting has of course given it a new revival in addition to opportunistic shitheads like nogs using it as get out of jail free card to escape consequences for their own shitty tribal behavior.
--- 57856428
>>57853269 (OP)
You're a retard. China never viewed Russia as the muscle in some sort of strategic alliance. Russia has always been seen as a rival, both competing for influence in Central Asia. However now with Russias power and influence collapsing China has an opportunity to completely replace Russias influence and have Russia fall within their own sphere of influence. This war is good for China.
--- 57856434
>>57854585

This will probably invite a full blown nuclear response that was lovingly crafted for the Soviet Union, but now falling on land 1/3 the size and 10 times as dense with human insects.
--- 57856439
>>57855241

fuck you cocksucker, the US had this glide tech in the 60s too but they didn't think it was useful
--- 57856451
>>57856434
Keep dreaming loser. The US is going to start a nuclear war over convential missiles hitting our bases. We're just going to attrit the Rocket Force, destroy the Air Force, and sink the Navy. Then starve the Chinese into submission.
--- 57856454
>>57853499
>the ninja drone
flying slapchop
--- 57856472
>>57853577
Duh, that's why they're called 'missiles' not 'hittiles'
--- 57856518
>>57856428

wrong, no CSTO country will follow China mainly because there is no counterbalance. they know its a mafia. wait and see
--- 57856591
>>57855444
Would russia surrender to NATO if it meant help with defending themselves against china?
--- 57856604
>>57856472
I wish i could hate you BALD.
--- 57856636
>>57853269 (OP)
Ukraine War or no it was never going to happen as Taiwan is a literal US ally and Americans will be involved.

>>57855533
See Russians aren't Chinese who actually think before acting.
--- 57856673
>>57854731
When China dies India will try to step up and be the big player in Asia. It's a downgrade in terms of enemy cool factor because pootech is laughably bad, but maybe it'll buy time until someone else gits gud.
--- 57856878
>>57853269 (OP)
With everyone and their mom looking at, preoccupied by Ukraine and, more importantly, digging into their ammo/equipment reserves to help out, now might be a good time too strike Taiwan i think
--- 57856974
>>57853319
There are multiple reasons why i think Taiwan will be invaded
>Nationalistic/need for rally around flag
>Economic (chip expensive, china no know how make good)
>Strategic (chip complex and in missile, china no know how make good, also think of Japan being cut off from scrap metal and oil)
>Social, sorta like nationalistic but this could balance the gender disparity
--- 57857493
>>57856974
>Social, sorta like nationalistic but this could balance the gender disparity
It won't balance shit, Taiwan's population is literally a drop in a bucket to China.
--- 57857525
>>57856974
Economic and Strategic concerns factor little in China's aims in Taiwan. Economically Taiwan has been irrelevant ever since China opened up. If it was ever economical then all China would do is just fucking keep doing what it was doing.

No, Its 100% Nationalistic as the Island is seen as the last rogue province. Taiwan is the reason why the PLA remains named as PLA (i.e. the civil war is not yet finished.). Once finished they would simply be naming it as the Zhongguo Renminjun (The Chinese People's Army).
--- 57857670
>>57854773

Developed, deployed and retired all in the 1970s, mach 10+ in acceleration phase. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprint_(missile)

US had true hypersonic missiles (not only hypersonic in the reentry phase like most ballistic missiles) about 50 years ago. 

Than they just didn't bother much with them as they were needlessly expensive and really only useful if the enemy has such a good air defense grid that you can't penetrate it reliably without anything but hypersonic missiles. 

They have a lot of disadvantages if you don't use them for nukes.
--- 57857804
>>57853269 (OP)
Ukraine war made China realize both West and Russia are paper tiger. Why you think people are ditching the dollar?
--- 57857953
>>57856974
Yeah, I can't see the chip factories being factor. Taiwanese engineers would just destroy key components or hide key components of the factories in the mountains somewhere to deny China the ability to use said factories.

They definitely aren't going to just let the Chinese have those chip factories.
--- 57858049
>>57857953
>he chip the fabs are important 
TSMC CEO literally said China will catch up to TSMC in 5-8 years. Westerners only has propaganda for brain
--- 57858069
China will never attempt to take Taiwan. Instead they will use tranny logic say that as long as everyone pretends they own Taiwan then that means they do.
--- 57858072
>>57858049
... my post was about how the chip factories were *not* a factor, dude. Hence I was implying that they were, in fact, not important.
--- 57859487
>>57857804
I have to ask, do you honestly think anyone is really America's equal much less superior? Especially a 3rd world shithole like China? I'm sorry to tell you this but no amount of internet wolf warrior crap will change the fact that you will implode due to your crappy government and come crawling back to the U.S everyone else. You aren't capable of sustaining yourselves and deep down you know it. Now go make me an iphone bitch.
--- 57859812
>>57854773
Post videos of a Chinese hypersonic missile with full directional control
--- 57859903
>>57855241
>>57854773
Hypersonics are just a chink cope lol. They’re for people that know they’re cartoonishly outmatched and have to put all their stat points into pretending to have anything that can operate against US air defenses. 

US spent the last 60 years developing an entire war machine that is so effective at quickly and permanently dominating any air space that they have no need to pretend to have “hypersonic” wunderwaffes because they have no problem hitting their targets as it is. 

You’re not going to win a war with your dozens of propaganda missiles.
--- 57860523
>>57859903
The only serious AD systems the US had to face in the past 60 years were the ones in Iraq which were in derelict condition to begin with.
USAF would not do as well against near-peer or peer adversaries even in the current Ukraine war; Russia's AD networks today are on a whole different level that USAF pilots have had ZERO real-world experience fighting against so just imagine how awful the Chinese AA/AD zones would be, something they've been prepping for DECADES. You have unfortunately fallen for the air force cult like so many others have
--- 57861464
>>57859903
lmao, speaking of cope...
--- 57861680
>>57860523
> The only serious AD systems the US had to face in the past 60 years were the ones in Iraq which were in derelict condition to begin with.
Vietnam was where post-modern air-to-ground combat had the book written about it. And everyone else is still using the same tier air defense systems they were using like 50 years ago. 

Literally nobody else had ANY experience with it in the last 60 years but sure China, a totalitarian dictatorship run by yes-men that are totally caught in the dictatorship groupthink trap, and whose most recent military campaign was when they failed to invade or occupy any part of vietnam for longer than 4 weeks, is better prepared. Lol. 

And the funny thing is all the stuff that is still a secret. China’s go-to propaganda talking point is a broken knockoff of something that landed in Iraq 20 years ago.
--- 57861717
>>57861464
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

>TFW China almost lost as many men after 3 weeks in Vietnam than the US lost in 20 years. 
You gooks really don’t understand the power imbalance here.
--- 57861725
>>57855355
Jokes on you the Sinovac was just an applejuice injection
--- 57862403
>>57859903
Wow, 60 years of development you still can't make hypersonic glide vehicle. Wow!
--- 57863059
>>57856472
Carlos!
--- 57863161
The current eceleb armchair general talk is that China needs to invade in the next 3-8 years before Taiwan can effectively spam American hardware and drones from underground bunker systems. Really the only way Taiwan can ensure it doesn't get invaded is if it just boosts the fuck out of its shore defenses and mass adopts drones.
--- 57863215
>>57863161
they only just started doing that en masse. so technically PLA still has a decent chance if they act quick.
--- 57863218
>>57862403
--- 57863229
>>57853269 (OP)
No.
If anything, Russia is desperately using all assets of their extensive spy network to start as much shit everywhere at once and this does include China.
--- 57863274
>>57854099
yep. the west has been in pretty steep decline over the past 20 years, mainly due to a loss of confidence (bombing ragheads for israel isnt exactly a noble war), a desire for disarmement, and a hubristic assumption that global economic ties made war impossible. if putin had waited another 20 years, nato would not exist, european defence spending would be 0.5% of GDP (with countries like germany probably disbanding their militaries entirely for 'racism' or some shit) and the US would be entirely consumed by domestic issues. instead putin shat his pants and made bond-villian tier play, and woke the whole west up to the fact that the heckin russiarinos and chinkerinos and all the other third world shitskinerinos are not nice, rational economic partners who have been wronged by us in the past.
they are in fact retarded, aggressive and backwards, and still need to be kept in line. putins bullshit has effectively washed the wests hands clean of the moral greyness of the GWOT. hes reminded us all that if its not us in charge, its despots and corrupt morons like him. 
>inb4 coming into the western sphere is worse because of trannies etc.
I hate trannies as much as the next guy. but if the choice is between prosperity+pride parades, or having my country turned into a bombed out rubble covered slave colony to have its resources sucked out of it by GLVRIOUS PUCCIA, im choosing the faggots. teenagers who think living in a crater is preferable to seeing a pride flag need to grow up.
--- 57863277
>>57863215
At this point the PLA is staring at a casualty counter currently in the tens of thousands that could go into the hundreds of thousands the longer they wait. They still would need to have a surge in supplies and manpower to maintain an offensive and really they would also have a timer from when they take out the Nimitz to when 2-4 more carriers come in and stomp Chinese air power. If they can strike in the next 4-5 years and accomplish an invasion in about a weeks time or so they could probably take Taiwan with about 20-30k casualties
--- 57863487
The Taiwanese military is not ready. It is not capable or willing to defend itself. The CCP knows this. We know this. The only reason the Chinese aren't invading right now is because of the threat of crushing sanctions.
--- 57863537
>>57863487

You could say the same of Ukraine. The point is the US can rapidly arm and train Taiwan if it wanted to and of course the USN is the strongest force in the history of mankind. Please assault or fuck off, you are wasting billions every month with your posturing and especially your stupid ass island forts in the south sea that will be wiped by winglet-riding Jdams in first half hour.
--- 57863590
>>57861680
if china was in a totalitarian trap, they wouldn't have effectively modernized the PLA to follow the american model past the 90s. you have fallen for your own western groupthink that blinds you to the massive progress they've made especially in the past decades. The global south realizes this and are positioning accordingly (see: recent KSA rapprochement with Iran thanks to China), westerners like you don't because you're too stuck in your own bubble
--- 57863609
>>57853904
>I don't see China actually invading Taiwan now for at least another 5-10 years.

china, and more specifically XJP, really wasted their best chance to strongarm Taiwan this decade. politically speaking XJP may have 5 years but 8-10 years? he wanted to be guy that reunified china and ended the civil war. but at the same time he doesn't want to be wrong and be the guy who sent the last generation of chinese youth into a meatgrinder and destroyed the chinese economy.
--- 57863646
>>57863590

China is in a totalitarian trap. Russia was seen as the second force in the world and turned out to be dogshit. everything was crap. it will be the same for china and its wunderwaffe, which are completely unproven and incomplete copies. even assuming they work 50% of what is claimed, the systems, logistics, training and leadership are not. the fall of PLA will make Russia's one look like a gender reveal party.
--- 57863673
>>57863609

he doesn't need to now he is complete strongman who wiped out the opposition. the posturing over Taiwan was for internal consumption. is he going to risk 1.2 billion slaves to get another 23 million? when he loses, his family will be tortured to death by CCP next gen and even his daughter will be handed over by a furious US.
--- 57863797
>>57863590
No gun no opinion chink, post gun.
--- 57863818
>>57863797

they are building so many copies of the same destroyer, never mind planned obsolesence, but there are no crews for the forseeable future. It is obviously a corruption racket.
--- 57863936
>>57856591
would NATO even accept that surrender?
--- 57864087
>>57856129
Thank you for the least uninformed take in this thread
--- 57864626
>>57863590
>posts random picture of industry 
Bro I drive through hampton roads every day. I’ll never be impressed by like generic image of ports doing stuff.
--- 57864701
>>57853269 (OP)
Did her optometrist diagnose her with gookleosis?
--- 57864713
>>57863646
What makes you think China will be the same as Russia? Any possible statistic you could find comparing the two countries couldn't disprove that silly notion more than they already do on their own. Are basic numbers just made up to you now? 

>>57864626
Calling that "random" just shows how little you know. That's Dalian Shipyard for the record. That single shipyard alone has more output than all current US shipyards combined- and that's just one Chinese shipyard out of thirteen.
You don't have to be impressed, you just have to know what you'll be facing up against knowing that current US shipbuilding capabilities have been completely eclipsed by China's shipbuilding capabilities, and that the gap is only going to widen from here on out.
--- 57864746
>>57864713

yes keep building destroyers ahead of crew training. keep piling that rusting metal up

if you are so good why are you getting washed out ex-US and UK aviators to train your air force?
--- 57864923
>>57864746
>rusting metal up
KEK have you even taken a look at US hulls recently? I really, REALLY don't think you want to be using that argument
--- 57865139
>>57864713
Russia's fought a war in the last fifty years, China will be far, far worse.
--- 57865372
>>57864923

yes ship hulls rust

but this ship is being used. imagine building destroyers with no crews, because someone is earning from it
--- 57865584
>>57864923
rust is just something you live with and periodically clean when you could. same line of thinking can't be applied to PLA navy. since their hardware are more for internal propaganda purpose. god helps you if you have a speck of dust on it.
--- 57865781
>>57853269 (OP)
China won't be "pushing the button" on WW3. They will be goaded into it by the U.S. whose masters desperately need to migrate out of their current golem to China and need the regime there resisting moral degeneracy--the magic distraction to allow ever-more ridiculous usury to flourish--they need that regime decapitated. 
The U.S. needs to get Russia off the board--so it can do what it did to Japan from 1937-41: squeeze the Chinese on raw materials and interfere in their sphere of influence until they crack and strike at the U.S.--probably cyber/power grid/satellite Pearl Harbor. Won't be enough and Top leadership in China will get offed and the Han will have globohomo, I mean "freedom" like they never dreamed.
--- 57865820
>>57863646
>the fall of PLA will make Russia's one look like a gender reveal party.
Your brain on ZOG.
--- 57866209
>>57865820
Chinks can’t even help their buildings from falling apart and we’re expecting them to launch the most sophisticated naval invasion in history.
--- 57866707
>>57865372
>>57865584
?
PLAN regularly does drills, patrols and performs extensive ship maintenance. They train months out at sea and yet you never see their ships in as bad condition. Sounds like you're just repeating the same tired memes because they're comforting to you rather than confronting reality
--- 57866719
>>57865781

China is the most morally degenerate nation on earth

they found one brothel in Shanghai that has young and even underage girls, and because it was for government officials only, all the girls were slaves and whoring for no pay and locked up.

many such cases of extreme depravity sanctioned at highest levels, it is more Byzantium than USA can ever be
--- 57866722
>>57866707

PLAN hardly uses its navy. It is a political tool, nothing much more

Please assault Taiwan, what are you waiting for then, we need new entertainment. Moscow was a blast, two actually
--- 57866757
>>57866722
>PLAN hardly uses its navy.
China has overtaken the United States when it comes to the sheer size of its navy. While the PLAN has around 340 ships, the US Navy has less than 300 ships, and they're losing them faster to retirement than they can build new ones.
--- 57866772
>>57866757
>displacement
show us
--- 57866782
>>57866757

congrats on counting everything as a ship

furthermore with 340 ships, they are basically doing fuck all as there is no record of meaningful activity, even their island lock drills was a joke as a Taiwan fisherman could slap their carrier's hull could get so close

stick to eating 5 meals a day on a chinese ship, at least that's something remarkable

do you not understand, like the poor mobiks, the PLAN does not want to fight USA and Japan and Taiwan and just want to continue their easy life? doing the minimum, like mobiks
--- 57866804
>>57866782
Those 340 ships also get the benefit of operating near the coast of their home country, which is loaded to the brim with anti ship missiles and SAMs. Not to mention they get covered by their airforce, which is the largest in the world.
--- 57866813
>>57866772
USN isn't going to bring all its assets against China due to global commitments. China absolutely will, evening out the displacement comparisons. Especially as they continue their rapid pace of hull construction while USN retires 40+ ships in the next few years
--- 57866823
>>57863487
>The Ukranian military is not ready. It is not capable or willing to defend itself: look at how quickly they surrendered Crimea 8 years ago!
--- 57866843
>>57866823
What is it with you retards always comparing ukraine/russia with taiwan/china as if these are even remotely the same scenarios? Ukraine is not Taiwan, Russia is not China, get it through your thick skulls. Ukraine had their Crimea moment, Taiwan hasn't. They are far more complacent than Ukraine is and far less prepared for the type of war that they will have to face
--- 57866851
>>57866804

you seem to think the the enemy USA will fight exactly as you planned them to be, which is a sign of a military that has not fought for half a century

i think you should wake up to a few mornings of china costal nuclear power plants blowing up from stealth glide bombs for you to understand that USA is reserving special attention and treatment for China which it has not done for 78 years, last it did this was spread incendiaries all over Tokyo
--- 57866860
>>57866843

not after the US got involved with them

200+ F-16Vs upgraded and bought in record time no? That was an expense
--- 57866952
>>57866860
What good are those against the cold hard fact that Taiwan entirely lacks strategic depth? They're completely within PLA's coverage of land-based systems and airborne standoff strike capabilities. PLAAF inventory is far deeper and would bring the full brunt of their forces on top of whatever short-intermediate range missiles they have to strike assets on the ground before they can even take off
--- 57866972
>>57856451
Who was this even for?
--- 57866986
>>57866952

the US has openly stated they are not going to allow it. so attacking Taiwan means an all out war with US, Japan, AUKUS and maybe NATO and Korea. If you attack or open fire on the US first, say when breaking the blockade with its ships, NATO's mutual defence kicks in no?
--- 57867009
>>57853269 (OP)
It depends on how compartmentalized Xi is from everyone else. He has consistently proven himself to be a retard, but maybe this war will be a big enough wake up call that even Winnie the Pooh will hear it.
--- 57867021
>>57867009
Why would it? Putin’s just as fucking retarded, why would Xi be any different?
--- 57867023
>>57866986
>NATO
China has their economies by the balls, they'd be next to useless and almost certainly won't get involved. You had both Macron and Scholz last week openly going against the US and its taiwan policy. So that's already two of the biggest players out. The rest are too small and irrelevant and lack force projection for a conflict halfway across the globe or any ways to meaningfully contribute.
AUKUS is a given but it's doubtful how much they'd actually provide
--- 57867025
>>57867023
Lmao
--- 57867029
>>57867009

Xi is focused on killing his rivals. He's probably killed more communists than any man after McArthur.
--- 57867032
>>57867023
Oh no FRANCE won’t help, we’re DOOMED
--- 57867036
>>57867023
>big players
--- 57867042
>>57867032
>>57867036
>b-but NATO!
Yeah no here's the basic facts showing why this is utterly unlikel-
>HURRRRR DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I swear to god there's no pleasing you retards
--- 57867047
>>57867042
No your just blindly sucking Chinese cock and acting like a stereotypical /pol/ retarded, if you had the ability to read a room you’d realize everyone is mocking you constantly
--- 57867052
Imagine the pure and utter incompetence we’ll see from China when they launch a naval invasion. It’s gonna make Russia look like Desert Storm. I can’t wait.
--- 57867060
>>57867052
The Chinese shills will probably actually kill the site to avoid the vicious mockery
--- 57867068
>>57867047
You are a worthless retard
--- 57867074
>>57867068
Oh it’s you again

“Ok”
--- 57867080
I think it's more that China always assumed that because of 2014 Crimea and more recently our pulling out of Afghanistan, that we would just roll over and let nations annex smaller nations if they wanted to because authoritarian nations stronk and democracies fear confronting them. For the CCP, the west's response to Russia's actions in Ukraine has shown them that yes, there are in fact consequences for doing that. 
And the consequences would be far worse for China because they are not a fuel and food exporter like Russia, they are the world's biggest importer of both. People like to claim this might be the end of Russia but Russia-level sanctions on China would legitimately be the end of China as we know it from the famines alone that would ensue. Which is a shame, chinese girls can be pretty hot.
--- 57867082
>>57867060
>China displays military incompetence so stunning it shocks the world into silence
>Redditors and noguns flood /k/ like february ‘22 because ww3
>China let’s their million man shill army off the leash because of this 
>/k/ is ultimately drowned and irreparably ruined 
It will be this boards peak before its meeting with destiny.
--- 57867083
>>57867080
Nah Koreans are much more attractive
--- 57867089
>>57867082
It will be glorious I think even /pol/ would be lost, what a shit show.
--- 57867091
>/k/ STILL doesn't have an answer to these
--- 57867097
>>57856334
Maybe before I'd agree but the current administration has already targetted several US industries and said to their employees "either you get out of china NOW, or you give up your US citizenship". Within 24 hours the entire sector's employees either left china or left the US.
--- 57867098
>>57867091
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-Range_Hypersonic_Weapon
--- 57867111
>>57855471
>It's hard to become a pariah that way if the other countries already don't recognize Taiwan.
The reason they don't recognize Taiwan isn't because of Chinese bullying, but rather because until Taiwan gives up its territorial claims to the rest of China, it's seen as an internal dispute. Which is why the last thing China wants is for Taiwan to give up said claims and announce true independence from China because suddenly the CCP is threatening a sovereign nation.
--- 57867118
>>57867068
Know your place chang
--- 57867120
>>57867098
>United States Navy (planned)
草
--- 57867128
>>57867120
奴隶农奴
--- 57867136
>>57867091
Are they cost effective to use on anything cheaper than ships? I can't imagine chucking them at runways will be sustainable for long.
--- 57867137
>>57867120
>tested and actually works
>was done so 3 years ago
>interestingly at the same time China started screaming about them
--- 57867140
>>57857804
>Why you think people are ditching the dollar?
People have been trying to devalue the petrodollar since the 1970s and last I checked, it wasn't ruined even when half the planet didn't even run on a capitalist system and thus were barely even traded with.
You want to know why BRICS will never defeat the dollar? Because while it has way more people than the west, it has like 1/50th of the amount of wealth.
--- 57867149
>>57867140
And most of that wealth is held by wealthy retards like the Saudi princes who are too busy creating cities in deserts to care
--- 57867154
>>57867149
No most of it is held by us, the brits, the french, the germans, and the swiss. I don't know how much the Netherlands managed to make off of Indonesia before they lost it.
--- 57867163
>>57867154
Lmao you cheeky shit
--- 57867171
>>57853269 (OP)
Attacking Taiwan would be a strategic blunder of world-reshaping proportions that would grind the global economy to a halt for at least a decade even without America firing a single shot.

>Taiwan's semiconductor industry is not up for grabs, it's only up for shutdown. If the factories are not destroyed by Taiwan, they'll be destroyed by America. If they miraculously survive the war intact, the workers will be assassinated or evacuated. If somehow China achieves a pro gamer move and executes a flawless victory the likes of which no chink military in the entirety of human history has ever claimed, taking everything intact, the raw materials and machines the factories depend on all come from somewhere else and will be immediately denied and sanctioned, rendering their possession moot.
>So let's say China wins it all and America, for some reason, doesn't destroy the industry and decides to bend the knee instead of just doing without. They wouldn't cuck like that because it'd be the end of American prosperity overnight, but let's say we're just that afraid to fight. First off, every security guarantee the Americans offer to anyone anywhere in the world would instantly be considered worthless. European nations would have to start maintaining actual militaries instead of glorified LARP forces, and NATO would likely fracture. Every simmering conflict that's kept in check by the implicit threat of getting an American-led coalition up the pooper pops off within a year. Do you think Russia will stop at Ukraine if the chips needed to make all those fancy weapons suddenly disappear because China squeezes off the supply and/or western nations can't or won't buy them? Nope!
>Taking the other tack, if it all gets blown to hell, ain't nobody making, selling, or buying SHIT. Everything electronic would be in a shortage immediately. China would collapse, but so would everyone else.

TL;DR - not even chinks are this stupid, it's all a scam to get more MIC gibs.
--- 57867173
>>57867154
The Netherlands have been seemingly content just existing for the last century so I imagine a good amount
--- 57867179
>>57867171
>Not even the chinks are that stupid
Werent they saying that about Russia a year or so ago?
--- 57867204
>>57867091
Assuming those are China's hypersonic weapons, they have some pretty serious flaws. For one, there is a legitimate tradeoff for being so fast, namely that they can't really course-correct and are effectively just a medium-range rocket that's really really fast. So it's great against stationary targets but a ship has to just...move out of the way. Unless they think putting nuclear warheads on those is a smart idea, as if we wouldn't nuke someone that nuked us first.
And as for stationary targets...have you guys actually looked at the range of those things? Even Guam is 4x farther than their maximum range, all they could really hit of US bases would be South Korea and maybe Okinawa
--- 57867215
>>57867136
It ain't called the Guam-Killer without reason. I'd imagine they have good reasons to stockpile hundreds of the things. And considering this is China we're talking about, the costs involved will be far less since they already have R&D + supply chains taken care of
--- 57867218
>>57867179
No, American teens in their commie phase were saying that. Everyone else that had experience with Russians knew they were exactly that stupid.

I mean, yeah, thirdies are unpredictable and prone to flip the board because they're pissed about losing, sure. They MIGHT slaughter the global economy for literally no benefit whatsoever, but then again America has a few competent administrators. I fully expect they'd just bomb the factories and then have a hearty laugh about it until the coffee maker broke and they realized nobody was gonna have the ability to make a new one for 10 years.
--- 57867231
>>57867218

Vietnam knows

you know, the other gooks
--- 57867237
>>57867231
The CPV also can't stand the CCP.
--- 57867239
>>57867218
You do realize other countries can make electronics...right? Sure not that such a huge amount but it’s not like it’s a fucking list start only the Chinese know.
>Japan...I am forgotten...
--- 57867247
>>57867239
Lost art*
--- 57867258
>>57866972
You. I meant to say the US will not start a nuclear war. Sorry :(
--- 57867269
>>57867258
I mean if China starts it yeah by definition they aren’t
--- 57867278
>>57867258

if you suddenly lob missiles at a US carrier task force with 6000+ souls, I think everything is on the table. even Kim bless his chubby feet, keeps quiet when the Nimitzes trails destroyers in its wake off Korea
--- 57867283
>>57867204
guam absolutely is within range of the df-26 specifically
china's hypersonics are probably overhyped while still posing more of a credible threat than conventional missiles. something to at least monitor but unlikely it's the silver bullet towards knocking out CBGs
--- 57867291
>>57867283
>guam absolutely is within range of the df-26 specifically
Yeah but those aren't the hypersonics, the hypersonics only have a range of something like 1000-1500km
--- 57867294
>>57858049
Implessive!
he said the same thing 5-8 years ago
--- 57867299
>>57867239
It's a "shit rolls downhill" effect. Take what happened during COVID as an example. It's not that there were zero chips at all because of a disruption, it's that the supply became so bottlenecked that many industries couldn't get enough. Prices skyrocketed on things like GPUs and cars as a result. Now that was after like a year of global *reduced* capacity. There was still production going on. If Taiwan gets flattened, that's 50% of the global supply of chips just straight up GONE until new foundries are constructed, then those new foundries immediately open up into a backlog. Anything with a microchip would be out of reach from even the middle class.
--- 57867304
>>57867299
Wasn’t that actually due to China buying up literally everything at the time to create the supply issue and farm bitcoins though?
--- 57867305
>>57860523
>Iraq which were in derelict condition to begin with.
fourth stronkest army in the world at the time. or have you already memory holed that too?
--- 57867310
>>57867291
i know, the pic and the response confused me for a sec
df-21 ain't reaching guam that's for damn sure
--- 57867311
>>57867299
Isn’t America already building new foundries right now because of the potential for this to occur?
--- 57867314
>>57867269
>>57867278
The US isn't going to launch Nukes because a carrier is sunk. Carriers are valid military targets. The US doesn't need nukes to defeat China, why would you nuke a country that can also nuke you, and when after the war they will be your vassal. You're just destroying your future ability to extract wealth.
--- 57867320
>>57867299

they are already opening up in USA

China grew rich through its own effort but also because the West helped them. It would be gigantically retarded to then backstab the West and try to claim global hegemony because it is more likely to invite resistance and continuous troubles by other nations who accept the new gang culture of the world, even in the slimmest of chances it wins
--- 57867321
>>57867314
Ok
--- 57867327
>>57867299
Why are you ignoring every other SEA country and Japan and their ability to create shit
--- 57867329
>>57867310
I just didn't recognize the missiles in the pic and assumed they were the hypersonics because people won't stop acting like they're the biggest thing ever
--- 57867332
>>57867320
>It would be gigantically retarded to then backstab the West and try to claim global hegemony
Yeah but third worlders are retarded
--- 57867344
>>57866843
 so what is your cope going to be after a year of combat chinchongs fail to even establish a stable beach head in Taiwan?
--- 57867353
>>57867344
>we didn’t want Taiwan anyway! I was about weakening the US!
--- 57867357
>>57867320
>It would be gigantically retarded to then backstab the West and try to claim global hegemony
Normally I'd agree but Xi seems to genuinely buy into the idea that the Han are just the most special awesome ethnic group ever and the rest of the world should be thankful for getting to share the same planet as them so of COURSE they should be the country the whole world revolves around.
--- 57867369
>>57867353
so... two more weeks?
--- 57867373
>>57867321
>:(
--- 57867377
>>57867320
>China grew rich through its own effort
with its own pure effort they let themselves be subjugated by insane god emperors and then embarked on glorious works like the Great Leap Backwards and Cultural Devolution. 

 it was western stupidity, greed and over reliance on common sense that led to investments that pulled the insane bug colony out of its freefall stall after they got a little bit saner and off hands god emperors on the throne. Which btw has now reversed as pooh bear is quite openly emulating maoism
--- 57867381
>>57867357
if han is so special and awesome, why did they destroyer an entire replacement generation with one child policy, which basically doomed han people unless they start diluting their ethnic purity with other races just to effectively reproduce?
--- 57867386
>>57867171
I doubt the chips are that much of a factor to consider. Taiwan entering the fold is every PRC nationalist's wet dream with or without TSMC facilities. There's no doubt in my mind those things are getting blown up no matter what as the cost of doing business.

And yes it would absolutely cripple everyone's economic situation but PRC might be insane enough to do it if they think they can maintain their own advanced semiconductor fabs. SUPPOSEDLY SMIC already is capable of 7nm chips. If they can get those + future advanced chips to scale for civilian industry needs they'll be more willing to bite the bullet
--- 57867393
>>57867373
Ok
--- 57867398
>>57867304
Not entirely, although that didn't help matters. It was a combination of lockdowns increasing demand for electronics (need a laptop for WFH and all the home entertainments and etc) and also reducing supply (factories having fewer shifts, sick workers, etc). The point is, as disruptive as that was, that was far, far, FAR less than 50% of chip production going missing. To put it in perspective, Taiwan didn't even shut down their chip factories, only other places with much smaller market shares did. That massive fustercluck was all just people needing more laptops and some of the shitters being quitters. I'm genuinely not exaggerating when I say the world halts if it happens, which is why it's unlikely China will ever do jack shit.
--- 57867399
>>57867381
The way I had it explained to me was Mao wanted the country to catch up with the Soviet Union in production so he had a big campaign of basically paying anyone who would have lots of babies. Fast forward a few years and they were like "holy shit, what have we done, we basically doubled our country's population overnight, they're going to eat the country alive if this keeps going" so the 1-child policy was meant to be an extreme overcorrection of that. 
>unless they start diluting their ethnic purity with other races just to effectively reproduce
Will never happen, Han are one of the most racist ethnic groups on the planet.
--- 57867406
>>57867393
--- 57867409
>>57867406
Ok
--- 57867420
>>57867398
That assumes the US isn’t making new fabrication plants to counter this, which they are, and other countries refusing to see the writing on the walls as well as apparently this is the decade that authoritarian governments commit suicide
--- 57867424
>>57867420
*that said you still are right about it potentially fucking up everything, but relying on China to NOT be retarded is not a good idea
--- 57867437
>>57867420
>That assumes the US isn’t making new fabrication plants to counter this
Nta but we already are and Mexico is helping. From how I heard Peter Zeihan explain it
>Mexico can easily do what China does in low-end chip manufacturing which is like the shit that's in like toys and stuff
>We can do the high-end, super advanced stuff
>The problem is we don't currently have a replacement for Taiwan in terms of manufacturing the mid-level chips
--- 57867446
>>57867344
They don't need to if they're able to maintain blockade where effectively nothing comes in or out of the island. Invasion would either be the insanely retarded option or a simple formality because taiwan + allies' capabilities had severely degraded past the point of no return
--- 57867447
>>57864923
>Rusty And Battered USS Stout DDG-55 After Spending A Record 215 Days At Sea
So at what point do you get tired of posting the same pics of an extraordinately rare incident as if it is the standard?
Here she is as of like 6 months ago btw
--- 57867452
>>57867437
>we can create high and low end shit
>but mid tier chips are a problem 
What an interesting problem
--- 57867459
>>57867452
Each type requires different plant configurations, different levels of expertise, etc. So it makes sense.
--- 57867476
>>57854570
>Xi is Biden-tier retarded
Is he? Tell me more please.
--- 57867478
>>57867459
Makes sense
>SIR WE CAN ONLY BUILD QUANTUM COMPUTER
>WE’ER DOOMED
IM joking obviously
--- 57867481
>>57867476
It was a back handed comment nothing more
--- 57867486
>>57867476
Not him but you know how we listen in on everything that happens in the state departments in Russia? We're doing that in China too but unlike in Russia, no one's saying anything. Xi has shot the messenger so many times that everyone's terrified of him so they either don't tell him anything at all, or they just bullshit him so he hears what he wants to hear. I forget what major event it was in China but Xi didn't hear about it until Biden said something about it in one of their video conferences.
--- 57867497
>>57864923
>>57867447
And here is what she looked like just before the emergency longterm deployment>
Its almost as if it was a fluke brought on by extreme measures enacted during a global pandemic of unprecedented scale.
--- 57867501
>>57854570
>>57867476
Biden has one gigantic advantage over Xi, and that's that he can admit he's not the smartest person in the room and is open to ideas from others. Which is a surprisingly rare trait among presidents if we're being honest, and it's a good one because it means people who know better can get a word in.
--- 57867539
>>57867452
but by definition mid tier is what's most in demands. it's the proverbial destruction of the middle class but in technology sense.
--- 57867546
>>57867501
I’m pretty sure he is smart enough to realize the only reason he was ever elected was because he literally wasn’t trump, so he’s probably taking shit easy and playing the milktoast generic white president and letting his aids do the work behind him.
--- 57867548
>>57867539
Ok better bend the knee to our new bug overlords and not just...build new plants.
--- 57867550
>>57867546
>>57867501
Fags
--- 57867554
>>57867501
>he can admit he's not the smartest person in the room
Isn't he literally demented? That's not a rhetorical question by the way, it seems like the last time he was mentally competent enough to admit anything was a decade or two ago.
--- 57867556
>>57867550
Lmao you got a script that looks for mentions of Biden eh? Sorry daddy trump isn’t going to save you from the trannies and gays anon, he was literally too retarded to be president
--- 57867562
>>57867554
No, it there was even a hint of genuine dementia he’d be carted off in an instant, fuck Regan was for the last few months and the country nearly had a stroke.
--- 57867567
>>57867556
I don't like Trump. But you don't like him for the wrong reason.
--- 57867571
>>57867567
Lmao sure, he was an embarrassment to the title and cached like a child to everyone, that alone is enough
--- 57867578
>>57853269 (OP)
She looks like she wants to suck that flower's cock, but being a flower it doesnt have one.
--- 57867580
>>57867567
So you were just acting hostile to start for literally no reason?
--- 57867581
>>57856472
CARLOS
--- 57867583
>>57867580
I'm hostile to you because you're a fag.
--- 57867586
>>57853269 (OP)
Retroactively doesn't mean "made them change their mind"
--- 57867590
>>57867583
Why? We both agree trump was a bad president. You...wouldn’t be pathetically begging for attention would you?
--- 57867619
>>57867590
I want you to know that you're a fag. Just your text is enough to identify you.
--- 57867640
>>57867619
So you are, ok, we’ll I’ll keep responding because you seem to need the human interaction ok?
--- 57867642
>>57858049
>TSMC CEO literally said China will catch up to TSMC in 5-8 years.
so china will always be 5-8 years behind?

>Westerners only has propaganda for brain
ironic innit?
--- 57867658
>>57867640
I have a cat laying on me rn in Odessa. I am just fine.
--- 57867662
>>57867658
Ok
--- 57867683
>>57864713
>more output
quality over quantity. You have ghost cities, too, because of rampant corruption.

>You don't have to be impressed
Paper country. It's all fake. lol
--- 57867697
>>57867662
Keep being a fag and acting like you aren't envious.
--- 57867744
>>57867562
>a hint of genuine dementia
What about all those tremendous verbal gaffs? He doesn't do them all the time but when he does it comes off as actually demented. Worse than my late grandmother, RIP.
--- 57867748
>>57867658
>>57867697
Not him + I would probably think you're a fag if I got to know you better too, but post more photos of that cat immediately.
--- 57867750
>>57867683
>Paper country
This makes me wonder if other countries, like China for example, use 'paper' in the same derisive way.
--- 57867755
>>57867748
--- 57867758
>>57856472
Good one
--- 57867768
>>57867755
Fuck yeah, look at that thing. I bet he kills birds whenever he feels like it.
--- 57867775
>>57867768
A homeless guy talking to himself came by and he got scared and left :( here's a picture of the food I fed gave him
--- 57867798
>>57867683
They have both quality and quantity w.r.t. PLAN. You can only fake so much; China literally makes almost half of the world's merchant shipping which readily translates into large labor pool of capable engineers + reduced costs + infrastructure + huge budgets to afford maintenance, training, R&D. This is unlike the current US Navy who is currently stretched thin and pushed quite hard due to lack of available labor, lack of budget, resources, yards, etc. etc. You underestimate them at your own peril
--- 57867843
>>57853269 (OP)
Better yet
>russian men sent to die in a ditch
>russian women left unloved and frustrated
>chink male surplus acquire siberian pussy
--- 57867855
>>57867798

>takes Chinese propaganda at face value
>takes MIC whining at face value

gullibility is stretching it. look at russia this is you but underwater soon
--- 57867868
>>57854041
Disagree China is actually ideologically sound and practicing realpolitik. Meanwhile State Department representatives are saying how LGBT rights are a key aspect of foreign policy, it's a fucking circus.
--- 57867889
>>57867775
The homeless deserve extermination.
--- 57867891
>>57867437
>>Mexico can easily do what China does in low-end chip manufacturing which is like the shit that's in like toys and stuff
The issue here is, Mexico does not have the water supply or logistic infrastructure, brain trust and institutional knowledge base to develop a low end chip manufacturing industry within a meaningful time period on their own. And even if they start cooperating with US and Canadian chip manufacturers to develop the infrastructure and human capital to do so, it will take them about a decade with alot of handing holding through the entire process. The chips that Mexico will produce will have long expensive logistic chains where components will have to cross the US border multiple times to produce the final product. Very much in parallel to what's happening with the Mexico-US cross border automotive industrial complex.

The one major advantage China has in low end chip manufacturing (28 nm - 130 nm and larger), is it has the complete supply chain within the province of Guangdong centered around the city of Shenzhen from raw materials to silicon wafer refining to DUV machine manufacturing and chip prototyping and design. Despite China's aging population, they can still drive down the cost of low end chip manufacturing because every node in the supply chain is so close in proximity to each other and they are investing heavily in industrial robots and automation to maintain their comparative advantage for the foreseeable future.
--- 57867926
>>57867891
>The problem is we don't currently have a replacement for Taiwan in terms of manufacturing the mid-level chips.
This is where I call Peter Zeihan out on his bullshit. Samsung started risk production of their 3 nm process node in 2022 and full production of their refined second iteration this year. TSMC got to their second iteration of there's one year sooner then Samsung and Intel the only American vendor that has any leg in this race, are just starting risk production of their first iteration 3 nm process node now. Following this cadence, Intel is forever going to be behind TSMC and Samsung by at least 1-2 years, and this is assuming they don't encounter any difficult obstacles, like what happened when they tried to get their 10 nm (really equivalent to Samsung and TSMC's 7 nm) process node off the ground and struggle to do so for nearly a decade in the early 2010s, taking so long that the East Asian tech giants get 7 nm ready sooner simply by going through all the incremental iterations from 14 nm to 12 nm, 10 nm and then 7 nm.

The fabs TSMC is building in US are all for older 6-5nm process nodes. if anything current trends look like TSMC and Samsung are going to produce the most advanced process nodes within their respective countries and produce mid level chips in the US because none of these companies want to give away their most valuable trade secrets and patents to the Americans or Intel.
--- 57867928
>>57867855
Russia is Russia and China is China. I think I'll take my chances on not assuming that the 2nd largest economy in the world by GDP (and the 1st measured in PPP) doesn't have credible means of contesting the seas
--- 57867931
>>57867889
I hate them. I found more cats.
--- 57867946
Mmmm raping Taiwanese girls. If China makes horny moves on Taiwan and USA cock blocks get ready for wwiii
--- 57867948
>>57867915
Russian women do be pretty fine tho ngl no cap frfr ong
--- 57867962
>>57867948
I feel like chinese women are usually very ugly.
--- 57867989
>>57867962
There are probably 100 million cute/sexy Chinese girls but unfortunately there are 500 million fucking goblins. This ratio is spoiling their chances of getting picked up by western chads. We look to other markets for our sluts
--- 57869072
>>57863646
The problem with these threads on sites full of extremists is that people take extreme positions just for the hell of it, you can have extremists for China or extremists for America, but they're not really trying to look at capabilities in a realistic way as much as hoping for a cathartic moment in which the PLAN or the USN will own their enemies online for them.

>>57867501
Biden is also a Catholic where the last one we had was JFK. I think Catholics can be a little "softer" or a bit quieter on average. It's a cultural thing. He sometimes even looks like a priest, and his speeches have about as much energy as the Pope. Trump destabilized American domestic politics and Biden wants to stabilize it. 

It's kinda interesting how he does it. In some dimensions, he has governed more to the left than the left expected, folding in Bernie and basically running a quasi-Keynesian economic plan. It's not quite FDR in the late 30s but the almighty state is using its stick to steer investment into manufacturing to a level that has not happened in my lifetime. He kinda stole some of Trump's agenda there. But he's hard for the Republican base to attack too because he's an old white guy, so they just say he's senile or a puppet to a sinister cabal. But they fear him too and don't wanna chimp out either because they fear he will put the stick to them and "excommunicate" them from the holy mother church.

https://youtu.be/NRt2cKvJLlE?t=92 [Embed]
--- 57869125
>>57869072
>Actually thinking Biden is catholic
Lmao
--- 57869315
>>57867320
>It would be gigantically retarded to then backstab the West and try to claim global hegemony
Less hope Xi and the chinese have learned something from their neighbour's retardation.
Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast.
--- 57869482
>>57867486
>believing Peter Zeihan
kek
KEKW
--- 57869566
>>57856974
>Economic (chip expensive, china no know how make good)
If at any point USA thinks that the invasion might result in China taking over Taiwan they will blow up all chip facilities. There is no scenario where China gets chip manufacturing out of this invasion.
--- 57869583
>>57858049
China might get to what TSNC produces right now in 5-8 years (super optimistic forecast).
--- 57869597
>>57855471
>far worse time to invade Ukraine when winter was in full swing
How can someone be this retarded? Winter is a fine time for an invasion. Mud season is, by far, the worst time to invade.
--- 57869817
Basically. Its the same moment of reflection as after the Gulf War. 

Before 1991 China thought they could win any war just by having a massive army then in the Gulf War at Khafji you had 3 Iraqi divisions forced into retreat by a smaller USMC and Saudi blocking force then wiped out completely by air power as they retreated.
--- 57870007
>>57854752
You're looking at the problem in reverse. China is a net food (and energy) importer. The last two US administrations have been investing in bases that contain China within its limited sphere, most recently in the Philippines. The US doesn't have to break into China's A2AD bubble, China has to break out of our A2AD containment ring.
That does, in my opinion, increase the likelihood of conflict over Taiwan (as other anons have mentioned). Nation-state actors aren't entirely rational, and the likelihood of irrational actions increases if they feel backed into a corner (see Japan in 1941)
--- 57870154
>>57856472
Fuck you.
--- 57870366
>>57853402
>he doesn't realize how weak they have gotten vs China.
Example: China lauch 40Mil tonnage of ship each year. The US navy is 4.5Mil ton total.
China vs USA is reverse pacific war
--- 57870396
>>57869583
Nope he said China will surpass TSMC in 5-8 years.
--- 57870660
>>57870366
I can’t wait for ww3 to kick off so you guys can leave the board in droves after we turn the Chinese Navy into molten scrap.
--- 57870797
>>57867406
3T0 He my cop?

what?
--- 57871183
>>57870396
No he didn't. That would be completely absurd.
--- 57871248
>>57870366
Crashing into a Russian sub 20 years ago means the US navy is bad?
--- 57871260
>>57870797
It's not a garbage can
--- 57871284
>>57867590
Fuck off neolib. The uke war wasn’t an open invite to libshit NAFO niggers
--- 57871647
>>57871284
Maybe cavemen like this aren't a good look either if you want to present yourself as better than libtards so maybe work on your own self image and public presences instead of raving on about stupid culture war shit, idiot
--- 57871695
>>57871647
No gun no opinion, fag, post your gun.
--- 57871730
>>57867928
Why? We were fed the line that Russia had a military almost equal to ours for decades and it turned out they're still in the 1980s. How could you trust any of this propaganda bullshit after that?
--- 57871891
>>57870007
Food no, fuel yes. It's not as straightforward is the longer answer, there's something about more than half of their food imports being either cheap GMO animal feed so they can have cheap pork and beef, or luxuries/non-essentials.
For everything else like grains, legumes, etc. they're (calorically) self-sufficient in.
They have campaigns to stop tens of million tons of food waste at this point that eventually became law a few years ago. Food issues for China were true maybe a decade ago-they aren't anymore.

Energy is trickier, right now theyd only manage to meet current needs for a few years with something like 45% rationing of strategic reserves. That's assuming zero oil production of their own and that they won't be looking towards inland routes e.g. Russia so they aren't entirely cut off and can sustain reduced level of imports. They might be banking on the american public clamoring for peace before they run out assuming a quick air and sea war since a war with China is also economic MAD for them.

All of this to say is that it's likely they'll be able to sustain this for a LONG time. Nationalist-authoritarian states like China have no issue with popular support to maintain this almost indefinitely until things reach a very high tolerance breaking point.
Can the same be said for the modern day US, with it's divided and increasingly isolationist population? It's barely been one year and you're already seeing pushback towards providing aid to Ukraine, to the point that suspension of aid will be an important wedge issue for Republicans to rally around. The political situation is just as important as the military one and politically the US has never been as insecure since the lead-up to the civil war. Food for thought
--- 57871931
>>57871695
You first troon.
--- 57871984
>>57871730
Last time I checked USSR wasn't the largest trading partner of the majority of nations and lagged far behind due to their command economy structure. China since Deng opened things up for partial liberalization hasn't suffered the same mistakes and made the country grow vastly richer in comparison, which feeds into their modernization programs.
Something like $60 billion alone goes towards their own ship maintenance for just one example of how they're taking this seriously especially after they saw how the gulf war played out.
--- 57872912
>>57867946
b...based?
--- 57872965
>>57871248
>Russian sub
Lol
--- 57875508
>>57871931
Thats what noguns always say lol, go back
--- 57875669
>>57865820
Those tariffs really, REALLY pissed off thirdies
--- 57876263
>>57854752
Please explain how a naval invasion of a mountainous jungle island that can only be invaded only when the seas are calm more favorable than a literal flat terrain land border?
--- 57876359
>>57853269 (OP)
Yes, it has increased China's caution and now they're concerned about Russian stability.

They still saber rattle because they need it for domestic propaganda.