lit/21918265.txt

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--- 21918265
is there a Nietzsche of the Muslim world?
--- 21918272
muhammad iqbal
--- 21918278
>>21918272
wasn't that faggot some separatist mudslime
--- 21918312
Muhammad
--- 21918358
>>21918265 (OP)
Well there's a question as to whether Nietzsche would even be relevant, let alone the futility of searching for some Muslim body double of Nietzsche which is as pointless as asking if there is a French Buddha or a Chinese Augustine. Nietzsche's whole arch takes place in post-revolutionary Western Europe where the industrial revolution and modernism rendered God an irrelevant concept. In the Muslim world, God somehow lived on. Colonialism and imposed secularization effectively drove Islam out of the palaces and universities and into the urban ghettos and peasant villages where it became a kind of bastion of resistance against the authorities. Then along came the Islamic revolution in Iran, where those ghetto dwellers and rural simpletons somehow managed to topple a Shah with one of the largest armies on earth. There never really was a death of God in the Muslim world. Guys like Ataturk and Nasser tried to strangle him, but somehow ordinary people managed to hold them off. Now, you can say that a death of God type thing is only now emerging in places like Iran, Turkey and Saudi Arabia, but the vast majority of people remain pretty conservative and religious. The second issue is that Islam had a very different set of moral values to Christianity. There's no turn the other cheek, no concept of inner faith and forgiveness, no praise of virginity etc. there is a concept of martyrdom but it's distinctively aggressive and militant not the passive kind typified by the crucifixtion of Christ. That's probably what allowed Islam to hang around for so long and become a thorn in NATO's side. 

>>21918272
Iqbal was really a Hegelian and follower of Goethe and obsessed with Germany. He didn't really have any connection to the Muslim philosophical tradition outside of his traditional education as a Persian poet and interaction with popular books of the occult. His whole philosophy is basically that the Cartesian individual ego exists becuse it does, denying this is life denying, and that strengthening and empowering the ego is the goal of philosophy. Borrowing from Nietzsche, he argues that Islam, unlike Christianity or Hinduism, is uniquely life affirming. So basically, Iqbal is just taking bits and pieces of continetal philosophy, slapping them together and then arguing Islam is some exception because it just is and throw in a bunch of points about how Muslim scientists discovered X or Y before everybody else etc. His whole philosophical approach is peak inferiority complex. 

>>21918278
Iqbal wasn't a seperatist. If you read him carefully, he became more and more critical of the idea of a nation and nationalism and though he argued for Muslim autonomy within a federal independant India he never was an outright seperatist unless you mean from the British empire.
--- 21918647
>>21918358
Not necessarily, Islam has the same sort of slave morality that Christianity does, it believes in helping the poor, the weak, believes in virtues stuff like not being vain etc. all of that Nietzsche described as being the morality of the "lower classes" and not the warrior class. I was wondering if their are any writers that just completely shit on Islam.
--- 21918651
>>21918647
>helping the poor, the weak, believes in virtues stuff like not being vain
That's not slave morality. Slave morality is despising the strong. Islam helps the unfortunate whilst still promoting the rule and right of the stronger and blessed by God (dar al-Islam).
--- 21918657
>>21918651
so there are no writers that shit on Islam?
--- 21918658
>>21918265 (OP)
ZARATHUSTRA
--- 21918659
>>21918647
>Slave morality is about helping the weak and poor
Really nigga?
--- 21918666
No because the muslims will kill people who proclaim that allah is dead.
--- 21918667
>>21918659
if you have hatred for the weak you would not be helping the poor and weak, you'd be laughing at them
--- 21918685
No, Nietzsche was responding to the termination of religious meaning in western civilization which has no real analogue in the Muslim world. Islam is also too closely connected with Muslims in terms of their civilization, no one exception maybe Iran has some pre-Abrahamic civilization they can draw much inspiration from. Nietzsche is not unpopular with Muslim intellectuals though 

>>21918272
Iqbal was mostly a champion of Muslim humanism, he wrote a long poem in Persian inspired by Dante except with Rumi as his guide. I think the fact that he was so much against women’s education shows how strong Desi cultural influences are, since the other great Muslim humanist, Qutb, was not against women’s education
--- 21918692
>>21918647
the problem with religious skeptics is that application of the concept of slave morality depends on time and place and whether is congruent with deeply held convictions about how society should work and shouldn't work. to use an example, critical race theory can and should be seen as a form of slave morality that has been codified into law, on the other hand, using an example, mocking a disabled lady from Mississippi, who believes in God herself lacks honor, unlike the kind of honor reserved for a soldier in combat. the point is, its only useful for describing behavior that indicts a people to "raise hell" against another group for ulterior reasons. that cute little lady is not affecting your life and you should be more concerned about those who do affect it, either legally or extralegally.
--- 21918701
Nietzsche is the Nietzsche of the Islamic war. He's been praying to the universal will for them to slaughter Germany since the late 1800s, Swedenborg's bound to have told God before then what he wanted for the Second Coming.
--- 21918717
>>21918701
Swedenborg hardly gets mentioned here.
--- 21918724
>>21918666
>>21918685
>>21918692
>>21918701
you niggas are fucking useless holy shit, I just needed an anti-Islamic book that would help me write more blasphemous Black Metal songs
--- 21918732
>>21918647
Nietzsche's central point in the geneaology of morals is that Christian/Western values are formed through resentiment, not that they believe in helping the poor or whatever etc. nor is he necessarily endorsing master morality. Nietzsche's own brief comments on Islam tended to be positive because it does not share much in common with Christian morality. For Christians, faith is absolutely central concept while it was traditionally irrelevant for Muslims. Christians believe there is some inherent virtue in self-inflicted poverty and victim status, while Islam forbids monasticism and wallowing in victimhood (unless your a Shia). This is rather obvious, Islam became a dominant world power and didn't spend centuries as a persecuted minority under the Romans or wondering Jews. 

>>21918657
There are dozens of such writers that are too numerous to name. The most popular Middle Eastern figures in the West are mostly anti-Islam to varying degrees. Nawal El-Sadawi, Orhan Pamuk, Ataturk, your run of the mill Iranian expat ''activists' etc. all are resolutely anti-Islam to a lesser or worse degree.

>>21918685
Iqbal's Persian is among the best every produced, there is no doubt about that. I just don't rate him highly as a philosopher. Qutb is a whole other ball game and pretty hit and miss, he went off the rails with Milestones. I guess it doesn't help when your career is cut short by a merciless tyrant for simply writing a book. See Qutb more of a quasi-anarchist with all the flaws of leftists and on a whole I find his humanism disturbing.
--- 21918753
>>21918724
>homie's been stuck screaming Rushdie's theory of satanic pedophilia at metal fans since the 90s
Idk holmes maybe hit up Guenon fags if they exist in your timeline 
>>21918717
I don't believe any of you cunts read Goethe or Kant either
--- 21918764
>>21918753
Black Metal isn't satanic anymore, leftists made that shit cringe by taking it up, we don't want to be associated with anything that is weak, most of us are Pagan
--- 21918767
>>21918732
Iqbal isn’t really a philosopher but a humanist in the Renaissance sense, so is Qutb. As for Milestones going off the rails, it is one of the most highly regarded books in the Muslim world among fundamentalists and liberals alike, really the only ones who have a strong opposition to it are Madkhalis, Jacobins and nu-trads. It’s very well in accord with his exegesis on the Qur’an
--- 21918833
René Guénon (PBUH)
--- 21918841
>>21918764
>most of us are Pagan
Ok hippy
--- 21918846
>>21918358
>Islam
>no praise of virginity
congrats I stopped reading
--- 21918863
>>21918846
He isn’t wrong. Islam recommends—by no mean requires—marrying virgins (and by and large women who are virgins will want the same of their husband), but for a widow or divorced woman, there is no religious stigma at all. The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم only had one wife who was a virgin when he married her, all the others were either widowed or divorced, sometimes multiple times.
--- 21918865
>>21918863
I should add the disclaimer though that marrying a woman or man who committed fornication is illegal in Shari’ah unless they have completely repented for it, in which case it is legal for them to marry. This is even the case if a woman and a woman commit fornication together and want to marry, their marriage is not legally permissible until they have repented
--- 21918868
>the right answer was ignored again 
Stupid shitposters
--- 21918870
>>21918265 (OP)
Do muslims have their own world? I thought we all shared the same lol
--- 21918882
>>21918667
you've never read nietzsche /pol/fag
--- 21918969
>>21918724
Read The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. Also start with that next time you absolute mongoloid nigger
--- 21918978
Nietzsche is already extremely pro-Muslim (especially because of its treatment of women). In his model, Islam is taking the form of Judeo-Christianity but somewhat soubverting it so that healthier instincts survive. I don't he would have a problem with hardline Islam either. Also Zarathustra read like Sufi wisdom literature.
--- 21918983
>>21918685
>Iqbal was mostly a champion of Muslim humanism
I have never seen a more retarded take on Iqbal. He was actually a separatist. He wrote letters to Mohammad Ali Jinnah regarding how muslims and their culture will never flourish if they stay with India/hindus. He was also immensely inspired by Goethe and Nietzsche. He wrote in Persian because he found it more expressive than his mother tongue Urdu. He was influenced by Rumi but was also biased against hindus.
--- 21919067
>>21918978
I don’t think Nietzsche extols Islam for women under it anywhere 

>>21918983
 I’m talking about Renaissance humanism like Petrarch and Erasmus, not Reddit humanism
--- 21919087
>>21918651
>Slave morality is despising the strong.
No. Slave morality is worshipping the strong.
--- 21919090
>>21919087
That’s incorrect since masters worshipped gods mostly in reverence to their strength. Slaves resented or envied strength, masters admired or revered it (broadly speaking), by Nietzsche’s schema
--- 21919102
>>21919090
Envy and resentment are good. Slaves are taught through Christianity and Islam that these are bad.
--- 21919105
>>21918724
you're the one who's retarded enough to think that there is an equivalent atheist to nietzsche in Islamic countries even though nietzsche's hatred of christianity was very specifically informed by his environment and knowledge of western intellectual history. fucking moron
--- 21919123
>>21919087
You haven't read N.
--- 21919131
>>21919102
Nietzsche posits that Christianity is passive-aggressive here: don’t envy or resent the strong because being weak is actually virtuous and the strong will go to hell
--- 21919136
since people in this thread are talking about Islamic books and thinkers I would highly recommend Islam Between East and West, very succinctly explains the general Islamic perspective and its differences from western thought
--- 21919144
>>21918753
>I don't believe...
am I supposed to care about your beliefs? For all I care you can believe you're a women but that won't make it true.
--- 21919195
>>21918272
This 

All of the faggot who are saying that Iqbal was a humanist are wrong. Iqbal used the symbol of "Shaheen" as a symbol of supreme being. Shaheen is a predator. Muslim humanists in Pakistan have criticized Iqbal for choosing Shaheen rather than a Dove. 

>>21918685
>no one exception maybe Iran has some pre-Abrahamic civilization they can draw much inspiration from.
Kek, surely Egypt and Indian subcontinent have zero pre-Abrahamic culture
>Persian inspired by Dante
Wrong, he was inspired by Al-Ma'arri who was a harsh critic of Islam. He even dedicated a poem to him.
>I think the fact that he was so much against women’s education shows how strong Desi cultural influences are
Sauce?
--- 21919200
>>21918265 (OP)
>>21918724
Read Omar Khayyam and Al-Ma'arri
--- 21919211
>>21919195
Being a humanist doesn’t mean being an atheist, I’m talking about classical humanism like Cicero, Erasmus and Petrarch. You should read more

>source?

“Stray Reflections”, from 21

>For our purposes religious education is quite sufficient for the Muslim girl. All subjects which have a tendency to dewomanise and to de- Muslimise her must be carefully excluded from her education.
--- 21919218
>>21919211
>Being a humanist doesn’t mean being an atheist,
I have never implied that. Again the symbol of Shaheen is a symbol of a predator. 

>“Stray Reflections”, from 21
>>For our purposes religious education is quite sufficient for the Muslim girl. All subjects which have a tendency to dewomanise and to de- Muslimise her must be carefully excluded from her education.
Holy chud
--- 21919225
>>21919211
>All subjects which have a tendency to dewomanise and to de- Muslimise her must be carefully excluded from her education.
Based.
--- 21919231
>>21919195
>Wrong, he was inspired by Al-Ma'arri who was a harsh critic of Islam. He even dedicated a poem to him.

Perhaps both. Iqbal called the Javed Nama “an Asian Divine Comedy”, or so it says in Zinda Rood

>>21919218
I don’t know how the symbol of a predator negates humanism.
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>>21919231
>I don’t know how the symbol of a predator negates humanism.
It kills and spread terror
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>>21919235
This is a Desi libtard impression of the bird. Desi libtards will also say niqab is meant to be a motif of killing and terror
--- 21919337
Doubt it. They would be more inclined to Dostoyevsky's way of thought. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, arent cetered around you. Ego is seen in a negative light.
--- 21919450
>>21919241
>This is a Desi libtard impression of the bird.
Saying Shaheen is a humanist symbol is a romantic retard impression. Go watch some videos on YouTube of that bird eating its own chicks.
--- 21919464
>>21918767
Milestones has to be seen in context. Qutb wrote it in between bouts of rape and torture in prison. It's a work of deseperation. His epic commentary on the Quran was a true masterpiece bringing modern literary theory to Quranic tafsir for the first time. It's a shame his romantic novels and poetry get virtually no attention either. Nevertheless, Milestones does pose an interesting counterpoint to someone like Carl Schmitt: if God exists and is sovereign then the nation-state is illegitimate. 

>>21918978
Nietzsche's attitude to Islam was indebetd to German romantic tradition that portrayed Muhammad as a noble warrior, a sort of 6th century Napoleon, and Islam as sexually liberated and violent compared to Christian pacifism and chastity. He had virtually no first hand knowledge of Islam. 

>>21918983
Iqbal's mother tongue was Punjabi not Urdu, although his family spoke Kashmiri. He wrote in Persian because it still had a reputation as a high literary language. Iqbal was trained by people like Amir Mina'i and influenced by Delhi school poets like Dagh Dehlevi and he was obsessed with Rumi, his German girlfriend introduced him to Goethe and Nietzsche and those are his main influences. As for him being a sepratist, he really wasn't. That's just paki propahanda. Iqbal Singh Sevea deals with this in his book The Political Philosophy of Muhammad Iqbal and I'm not going to replicate his argument here.
--- 21919524
>>21919450
Birds of prey don’t have to signify humanism or anti-humanism anymore than a lion does, they’re used because they symbolize strength, vigor, majesty and keenness of perception, vigilance, wisdom, and they have been employed by poets this way for thousands of years, and Iqbal chose one that was specifically tied to the subcontinent in order to signify that. I can promise you Iqbal wasn’t use it to mean we should eat our babies. 

>>21919464
His commentary on the Quran was also written in prison, at least the overwhelmingly majority of it, and strongly corroborates Milestones.

Nietzsche’s attitude toward Islam had nothing to do with it being sexually liberated or violent. He liked that it prohibited alcohol and embraced austerity, he particularly admired Andalusian culture, he wasn’t infatuated with the Orientalist conception of Turks
--- 21919538
>>21919464
>Iqbal's mother tongue was Punjabi
Did he ever mention why he never wrote in his mother tongue? Or any other instance where he mentioned Punjabi?
--- 21919548
>>21919524
>strength, vigor, majesty and keenness of perception, vigilance, wisdom
And violence, fierceness, ruthlessness, indifference, Will-to-power, might is right so on and so on. It is cowardliness to just look at "positive" side of a predator. If that's he didn't meant these attributes then he was naive or unconscious about his own symbols.
--- 21919550
>>21919524
>He liked that it prohibited alcohol
How the fuck this cuckold called himself a Dionysusian?
--- 21919558
>>21918358
>There's no turn the other cheek, no concept of inner faith and forgiveness, no praise of virginity etc.

LOL - instantly out yourself as a fraud.
--- 21919565
>>21918265 (OP)
Yeah he can be found under a pile of large rocks
--- 21919566
>>21919548
No, rather you have no familiarity with the precedent of birds of prey as symbolism in literature or poetry. You would probably very confused as to why dogs were almost entirely positively in heraldry, since in poetry and art they symbolize fidelity and vigilance. You’d say, “these poets for these thousands of years akschully meant it is good to scavenge and eat shit and if they didn’t they were naive”. No; they were just following an established poetic and artistic convention of symbolism, as Iqbal was since he actually read literature unlike libtard Desis who would probably also be upset by a lion or a tiger and say. “Th-that’s a terrorist dog whistle!”
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>>21919558
Kek, I have just read that. What a shill
--- 21919586
>>21919550
Pop quiz: what does Nietzsche explain his theory of the core of Dionysian to be in The Birth of Tragedy? Have you read it? Have you read any work by him at all, in fact? Have you in fact read any work from antiquity which talks about Dionysius? Are you even remotely aware of who Zagreus is? are you perhaps making the womanish assumption that Apollinian means disciplined and Dionysian means hedonism? 

Let me clear it up: the Apollinian (how he spells it) means imposing a dream upon reality to beauty it and add meaning, to “escape” from the raw and terrifying nature of the Will (in Schopenhauer’s sense). The Dionysian is to embrace that and look at it for itself instead of to use ideas and things to distract oneself from it. Alcohol is used as an anesthetic to get away from troubles and forget, to escape from the terrifying truth of the sublime.
--- 21919604
>>21919558
For Christians, sex is associated with man's fallen nature. This led to a purity cult of virginity that you can still see today in catholic celibacy and Protestant restrictions on sexuality. Muhammed explicitly forbid monasticism and in some cases forced his followers to marry. Islam also permits concubinage which Muhamamd practiced. Christian paradise is also basically asexual and celibate, because of course sexual desire was aroused in humans by Satan, whereas in the Quran paradise is described as full of sex. Faith was an essentially Protestant concept that didn't exist prior to the reformation, Islam has always been orthorpraxic not a faith based religion. Muslims don't particular value human forgiveness either. If you look at the major Muslim moralists, they're basically Machiavellian in their insistance you crush your enemies. The friend/enemy distinction is pretty strong in the Quran, something that gives liberals fits. 

>>21919524
All of those are true, but Nietzsche's attitude sits within a long tradition of German romanticism which includes people like Goethe. For them, Muhammad was the prototypical heroic individual who fought for an entirely new world and a new morality that was more open and rational than Christianity. It was also an edgy stance to take, Islam was the enemy of the kind of sheepish Christianity people like Nietzsche loathed.
--- 21919612
>>21919586
The God of wine taught by laughing pessimist drunk God Silenus. Don't care about your pilpul bullshite.
--- 21919617
>>21919604
Nietzsche never talks about Muhammad صلى الله على وسلم and never praises Islamic law as rational, you should stop putting words in his mouth or trying to put him into a box
--- 21919625
>>21919612
The Greeks diluted their wine to avoid getting intoxicated. Silenus is known for saying the best fate for a man is not to be born, and next best after that, to have died: this reflects the function and perception of drunkenness; it is a form of solace for existence itself, essentially a way to numb life.
--- 21919629
>>21919566
>they were just following an established poetic and artistic convention of symbolism
No Islamic poet from subcontinent has used the symbol of a predator as a benchmark being because they weren't retarded romantics. Therefore humanists are right to criticize him for choosing a predator over a Dove or a Deer. Why I should I care about the western understanding of the subject when their minds and traditions are totally different to east
--- 21919636
>>21919625
>The Greeks diluted their wine to avoid getting intoxicated.
Silenus was always drunk and laughing. People use to carry him from one place to another so this no intoxication makes zero sense. Why the fuck would Dionysus choose a teacher like him? Nietzsche was projecting his own bullshite on Greeks.
--- 21919643
>>21919629
>n-no, why did he use a lion instead of a baby cow! That’s scary

Every Muslim humanist, from the Middle Ages until today, has had an appreciation for western thought. That’s actually fundamental to Islamic humanism, since, you know, humanism itself is a western concept. The symbol of birds of prey as majestic, strong and wise did not start with romanticism, it goes back to antiquity. That’s why the owl is Athena’s symbol
--- 21919660
>>21919636
Silenus was a laughing pessimist who said the best thing for man is never to be born and, after that, to die. He is Dionysus’ teacher in the earthly form of Dionysus who is esoterically Zagreus, who must be ripped to pieces and die and be reborn years, a motif. Dionysus however had embraced this and doesn’t try to forget it.
--- 21919701
>>21919643
Indian subcontinent has its own distinct Muslim tradition from which Iqbal belonged, Pakistani muslim humanists are right to criticize him. Don't care about western understanding at all.
--- 21919710
>>21919660
Back on pilpul shit. He was literally called a God of Wine. Just accept it that your Muslim dogmatic thinking isn't allowing you accept that people drink wine without the fear of burning in hell for eternity.
--- 21919726
>>21919701
There is no evidence it being used as a motif for evil among Muslims in the Subcontinent so I don't know what tradition you're appealing to here. Desi libtards do not care about Muslim symbolism anyway either, they will say it is terrorism to grow a beard, they rather hate symbols of Islam
--- 21919729
>>21919710
I am talking about Nietzsche, who was a philologist who gained tenure in his 20's--unheard of even then--and was teaching classes to students at university at that age. If you are upset with Nietzsche's scholarship, you are free to actually read a primary source sometime or Nietzsche himself instead of getting your information from video games.
--- 21919760
>>21918732
Monasticism isn’t about wallowing in victimhood. It’s about renouncing the desires of the flesh and attaining ultimate self-mastery by avoidance of meaningless worldly pleasures such as sex, riches, and human glory.
Christianity doesn’t despise the powerful or the strong. The Church established strong relationships with the Christian monarchs of Europe and even waged Crusades against shitskin invaders.
Christianity teaches that hierarchy has a real place in society, but that those at the top must submit themselves to God and be under the authority of the Roman Pontiff.
Nietzsche knew nothing about Christianity because he was a Protestant heretic.
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>>21919760
Nietzsche's conception of Christianity comes from reading the Church Fathers which even Protestants did then
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>>21919729
>I am talking about Nietzsche, who was a philologist who gained tenure in his 20's--unheard of even then--and was teaching classes to students at university at that age.
And he was criticized for his bullshit by the Greek authority of his time for taking his info from video games 

>>The Birth of Tragedy was angrily criticized by many respected professional scholars of Greek literature. Particularly vehement was philologist Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff, who denounced Nietzsche's work as slipshod and misleading.
--- 21919852
imran zakhaev
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>>21919726
Evidence is them not being retarded enough to use a left hand occult symbol. He was a westerncuck and should be forgotten asap.
--- 21919856
>>21919835
This guy would be even further from your view and was precisely the school Nietzsche as contesting, that is, the old philologist school which contended that Orphist worship of Zagreus had to do with overcoming death through reason and Silenus was a symbol of the soul's intoxication with ascending from bodily concerns. According to the old schools, the core of Greek religion was the theme of discipline and transcending material concerns, and the stoic expression of their statues was meant to be a reflection of this. Nietzsche was instrumental in challenging this idea, and that this philosophical way of thinking was a later development (and one he conceded to be a degeneration). This was the source of criticism
--- 21919863
>>21919854
There is no evidence that birds of prey are a "left hand occult symbol" to Muslims. Desi libs didn't get upset because of that
--- 21919901
>>21919856
Yes, Nietzsche was retarded and projected his own bullshit. Pagan loved wine. Again you're a Muslim and it is showing.
--- 21919907
>>21919863
>Evidence 
Common understanding is the evidence but your academic fucked won't understand. And is talking about desi liberals? There are theological disputes.
--- 21919909
>>21919901
Pagans loved wine as the alternative beverage to water (they did not have coffee or tea or juice that could be refrigerated), they didn't like drunkenness. That is why they mixed water with their wine even when drinking it at a celebration.
--- 21919914
>>21919909
>they didn't like drunkenness
That's why Dionysus choose the most drunk motherfucker he could find on planet earth.
--- 21919922
>>21919907
Probably note since the hawk is the Heraldic animal of Quraysh, which includes Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم. 

>>21919914
The fact that Silenus drinks a lot didn’t indicate it was to be emulated to the Greeks anymore than Zeus raping men’s wives a lot meant this behavior should be emulated.
--- 21919931
>>21919922
>umm surely greeks and a literal god wine drank wine not because it gave them buzz but because had no other drink :(((( because...they didn't okay
kek
--- 21919935
>>21919922
>Quraysh
has its roots in paganism tribe and all of them oppose him
--- 21919939
>>21919762
He should’ve read the scholastics and St. Thomas and he would’ve realised they had a developed political philosophy which views authority and hierarchy as legitimate and natural. Christian ethics does not hate the strong but views strength and political legitimacy as granted by God and therefore the ruler is bound to use his strength to secure the social good and inculcate virtue in his subjects. I suppose the difference between the Christian and the Nietzschean conception of power is that the Christian views power as a means to an end, the end of social harmony and order, whereas the Nietzschean has this onanistic view of power as being valuable for its own sake. 
For example St. Thomas says that wives should obey their husbands because in man the faculty of reason predominates. This obedience of the woman to the man isn’t for the man’s onanistic pleasure-seeking but for the establishment of right order and harmony in the family, so there are no big fights/disagreements and the like.
Nietzsche wasn’t a philosopher, he didn’t have a developed political, ethical, or metaphysical worldview. He was a prophet—schizo type, one who intuits certain truths and goes on rants about them, some of which are less insightful than others.
--- 21919958
>>21919931
The Greeks diluted their wine with water to get drunk faster?

>>21919935
They also converted later and the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said all of the final khulifah would come from Quraysh (a heritage he was proud of)—in fact every madhhab exept Hanafi *requires* someone to be from Quraysh in order to be eligible to be khalifah. Ahlul Bayt are also be extension from Quraysh and their coat of arms was used by Muslim leadership for a long time.
--- 21919971
>>21919958
>The Greeks diluted their wine with water to get drunk faster?
No, slow intoxication is more pleasurable in comparison to drinking everything all at once in long term and also it lasts long that way. But saying that they didn't drink for the buzz is utterly retarded.
--- 21919979
>>21919958
yeah but what this has to do with Shaheen? How explicitly they used that symbol?
--- 21919993
>>21919971
Wine mixed with water will take a lot to get you drunk especially if you are eating as well

>>21919979
The Shaheen isa very closely related bird but distinctly subcontinent. The point was that the bird of prey is not a symbol of satan in Islam as you suggest, but rather a positive symbol
--- 21920010
>>21918658
this kek
--- 21920012
>>21919993
>Wine mixed with water will take a lot to get you drunk especially if you are eating as well
Depends on how much water you add. If you add too much water then it is just water and there would be no reason to add wine in it. And nobody is retarded enough to do that. Wine is for the buzz. Of course you want to reduce the quantity of alcohol in blood otherwise you would become a dysfunctional alcoholic. Many cultures drink beer and how retarded it would be that beer drinkers hate intoxication. Greeks weren't puritanical Wahhabis, accept that or keep coping retard.
--- 21920024
>>21919993
I don't consider left hand path a "satanic" category. But a predator has violence, fierceness, ruthlessness, indifference, Will-to-power, might is right. If you don't accept these attributes then you're being ignorant on purpose.
--- 21920050
>>21920024
Ali رضي الله عنه was called the Lion of Allah. Do you think he should rather have been called the calf? You should probably be aware that Islam approves of hunting and eating animals

>>21920012
You think people drank small beer for the buzz? It functioned in the Middle Ages as wine did for the Greeks
--- 21920059
>>21920050
>You should probably be aware that Islam approves of hunting and eating animals
Why it prohibits eating other humans?
--- 21920064
>>21920050
>You think people drank small beer for the buzz?
Of course retard. Why else they would drink an alcoholic beer and not a nonalcoholic beer?
--- 21920065
>>21920059
Which lions have been known to eat sometimes. Lions will also eat pigs
--- 21920071
>>21920064
Small beer in the Middle Ages contained 1% alcohol. Non-alcoholic beer contains 0.5%-1.6% depending on legal requirements
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>>21918265 (OP)
Islam already had what can be taken as a foundation in warfare (although it was seen as a just, noble and holy war), strength, and a stronger degree of life-affirmation (as aforementioned in this thread, monasticism disparaged in early Islam, and men encouraged to have a wife or even wives plural instead of remaining celibate as per Christ and Paul), so the grounds for a Nietzsche-type reaction against it weren’t so much there.

However, one intriguing possible historical analogue is Hasan i-Sabbah of the Assassins. In fact, Nietzsche even considered the Assassins he headed as his prototypical “free spirits.” 

—The 19th century philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche gives prominent focus to what he terms "the Brotherhood of Assassins", in section 24 of On the Genealogy of Morality. Nietzsche's signature work is to attempt the transvaluation of values, that is, to transcend the inherited Jewish and Christian politics, psychology and ethics of ressentiment and guilt. Nietzsche points to the Assassins as anti-ascetic 'free spirits' who no longer believe in metaphysical truth.

—Importantly, Nietzsche attacks the false spirits who are the host of self-describing "unbelievers" of modern times who claim to reject religious deception as scholars and philosophers and yet retain the traditional refusal to question the value of truth. Nietzsche compares genuine free spirits with the Assassins: "When the Christian crusaders in the Orient came across that invincible order of Assassins – that order of free spirits par excellence whose lowest order received, through some channel or other, a hint about that symbol and spell reserved for the uppermost echelons alone, as their secret: "nothing is true, everything is permitted". Now that was freedom of the spirit, with that, belief in truth itself was renounced."

https://www.liquisearch.com/assassins/friedrich_nietzsche

Another analogy may be to some heterodox and antinomian “dervish-ism” (a random neologism to distinguish it from more piously religious and orthodox Sufism proper), at least some of whom may have been pious frauds using it as a cover for actually drinking the wine in secret of the famous Sufic poetic metaphor or consuming hashish in Persia. As well as Sarmad Kashani, who renounced all religions while still writing mystical poetry, and was executed by Aurangzeb for going no further in proclaiming the shahada than: “There is no god”. When asked why he didn’t finish the sentence with, “but Allah,” he’s said to have answered, “I am still absorbed in the negative part. Why should I tell a lie?”
--- 21920081
>>21920071
>they drink alcohol but they don't at the same time
kek
--- 21920091
>>21920072
>However, one intriguing possible historical analogue is Hasan i-Sabbah
Ismaili shias are considered Kuffar by majority of Muslims today
--- 21920092
>>21920064
>Why else they would drink an alcoholic beer and not a nonalcoholic beer?
NTA but a hygienic attempt to make sure water wasn't poison without making it strong enough to intoxicate you in small amounts.
--- 21920099
>>21920081
Yep, pretty much no non-alcoholic beer is absolutely alcohol free except for Barbican (which is consumed primarily by Muslims). Alcohol a quality for taste rather than intoxication in many things, like cooking, or kombucha
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>>21920091
Look at the thread we’re in, this is precisely about that, not about finding who the most orthodox Muslim is.
--- 21920110
>>21920099
Now it is said and done, Greeks were puritanical Wahhabis.
--- 21920119
>>21920110
>Nietzsche was a Wahhabi because he opposed drunkeness

The Spartans would literally get the Helots drunk and show them to their children as an example to warn them against intoxication
--- 21920172
>>21919200
This.
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>>21918724
You Will Never Be Damaar
--- 21920951
>>21919604
>Muslims don't particular value human forgiveness either
This is very silly. In interpersonal relationships Islam strictly mandates forgiveness. It’s heavily forbidden to carry grudges. Islam only allows direct aggression against enemies of Islam, otherwise forgiveness is a massive part of the religion
--- 21920958
>>21919617
He does mention him in his notes and in The Antichrist just like everyone in this thread has pointed out, are you stupid?
--- 21921023
>>21919604
What the fuck are you talking about, dating and premarital sex are absolutely forbidden in Islam. If you want to get with a girl you court her for a bit and then ask her father to marry her (as it used to be in the Christian West and should be). 
It's true that Muslim heaven is very carnal, but that's a big embarrassment to Muslims. It proves that their religion is just posturing.
If you think sexual liberation is a good thing you're a degenerate.
--- 21921372
>>21918685
>he wrote a long poem in Persian inspired by Dante

Inspired by Ibn Arabi.
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>>21921023
>What the fuck are you talking about, dating and premarital sex are absolutely forbidden in Islam.
What does that have to do with anything? Christians traditionally viewed all sex as sinful, which is why the church institutionalized celibacy for monks and the clergy. Sexuality is a part of man's fallen nature and is tied to original sin, while virginity is beautific and divine. For Nietzscheans this is a case in point of Christianity's life denying nature. Muslims on the other hand never encouraged celibacy, saw sexuality as inherently fallen or talked up being a virgin all your life as some sort of virtue. It's also not true that Muslims forbade premarital sex. Sleeping with slaves and concubines was permitted. 

>>21921372
Iqbal's whole philosophy was against Ibn Arabi's central concept of wahdat al-wujud which he denounced and rejected.
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>>21918265 (OP)
hello, ricky