Thu Apr 27 09:18:02 UTC 2023

lit/21912608.txt

@@ -3329,3 +3329,183 @@ Nigger, are you Longfellow? This thread is for poetry YOU made.
 --- 21957509
 >>21957456
 I can't hold a candle to the greats, so why not laud them? I doubt you even read very widely in the canon of poetic permutations, if you think the only point of a thread is to post your own poesy. Pleb.
+--- 21957969
+>>21927791
+j'ai pas les ref mais j'en ressent quand même leurs puissance, ils sont reliés à des choses désignés impersonnellement, ce qui leur donne une sorte de grandeur universelle. J'aime beaucoup.
+
+j'ai des débuts de sonnets mais j'arrive pas à les terminer ptetre que je les posterai après si je m'applique
+--- 21958091
+>>21957199
+Thanks for the suggestions
+>Wouldn’t recommend it
+How come if you don't mind me asking?
+--- 21958133
+>>21957509
+>I doubt you even read
+Yes, 106 people doubt your ability to do so.
+>>>>>>Post your verses.
+--- 21958246
+>>21958133
+I don't read the shit posted here. Nor should you. Read the greats. Fucking autistic swine.
+--- 21958258
+>>21958246
+Do you also open a book you have no interest in reading and glue over its pages copies of printed-out texts you enjoy? A multitude of characteristics of autism perfectly fit your bajazzo display in this thread. Accuse no one but yourself.
+--- 21958272
+The joint is burning, smoke rises
+I have the feeling I'm hearing voices
+stopped on this road I keep thinking
+to where this path is taking me
+the body floats, the mind falls asleep
+I raise my hands and say a prayer
+the joint reaches the end, I sit on the sidewalk
+I went after paradise and found nothing.
+I didn't find a thing, no
+--- 21958283
+>>21958258
+I didn't read your post, but no one here can write poetry.
+--- 21958293
+>>21958283
+>I didn't read it but it's shit
+You're certainly a /lit/izen :^)
+--- 21958301
+>>21958293
+Humble yourself before the altar of poetry.
+--- 21958502
+>>21954796
+I’m sorry for the long delay in posting anon, I’ve really been rather busy.
+
+I like the diagram it’s fun even if I have some disagreements, I would say I am very much into the top half as a whole from 8 to 3, since I also am a lover of folk and fairy tales and see much value in Shakespeare and so forth, it is simply that I find the most value in what is very aptly named the hieratic style, since I’ve even studied books of emblemata and much of what I consider best in terms of my own ideal in writing, is ultimately the kind of alchemical style which, while I know seems obtuse to the anons, is actually just common for the alchemical lit. I would say there’s a problem with the diagram because it ignores poetic structure in terms of the actual manner of writing which I am highly highly fixated on, and I am again very fixated on image, but I think the turning point is the symbolic as understood as a refinement of the image, to fill an image up with a world of meanings does not to me lessen the meaning or the depth you can portray it, but instead increases its power and depth, it expands it into an infinity of force. 
+
+I think an element of my own taste which puts me at odds often is, I don’t care for the human, in terms of personality or narrative, the personal feeling doesn’t capture me, neither do I see it as more beautiful nor spiritually superior, and this manifests in my own writing in a verse that there isn’t much to relate to for the person who doesn’t share my interests, and the result is in taste, say we both share that taste in Shakespeare, I’m interested in his rhetorical schema, his meter, his imagery, context, the qualia being produced in general, the intoxicant of it, not the specific persons. Like gun to my head favorite Shakespeare poem is the Phoenix and the turtle precisely because the humanity is stripped away. 
+
+In this regard, in the vast majority of cases, the realist and those other works near the nadir of the diagram wheel, they are almost utterly incapable of harmonizing the conception of the vast, the inhuman, the infinite, except within the context of human relationships, apophaticism and an inferior sort of philosophizing which, if instead they tried to write a philosophical tract would be considered subpar and not cared for by any. 
+
+I would ask you anon, what works do you say you’ve read that you consider the hieratic and how did you feel about them in positive and negative, what’s the critique against them in your taste?
+
+>>21958091
+To be blunt it’s pop schlock that is for dudes who don’t have the mind to study primary texts, it’s just not worth your time.
+--- 21958603
+>>21958502
+>To be blunt it’s pop schlock that is for dudes who don’t have the mind to study primary texts, it’s just not worth your time.
+Shame, Knight seemed like a good source for basic exercises and beginner information on Cabala, occult meditations etc. Especially since he seemed to go out of his way to keep it Christian/Western; I can't stand Blavatsky's stupidity and syncretism, yet she was unfortunately an influential figure.
+--- 21958626
+>>21958603
+If you want basic primers you’re better off reading the more normie mystical literature, molinos spiritual guide, brother Lawrence and that type are all very good and very mystically profitable, all very beginner friendly.
+--- 21958664
+>>21958626
+Are GD and Luxor any good in your assessment?
+--- 21958737
+>>21958664
+Ultimately GD is very basic and while In the short term studying GD and Thelema can bring you up to speed, it’s just as likely to get you stuck in a pattern of law awareness approach to esotericism and repeating the same rituals with no real understanding of the why, and in the end when you reach the higher levels of these, all of that preparation amounts to you again, going to the grimoires and studying that material. 
+
+Studying kabbalistic lit by dudes like aryeh Kaplan and moshe idel, studying contemplative material stuff like molinos, brother Lawrence and so forth, having a daily practice of prayer and meditation, and just studying the primary occult lit yourself is gonna be many many many times better for you, both in terms of direct relationship with God, and actual conscious knowledge. Again Agrippa, Paracelsus, Trithemius, Jacob boehme and Thomas vaughan, these few sources are gonna do you better than all of the pop GD lit combined and better than their actual flying rolls and other such.
+--- 21958764
+>>21958737
+Thanks again brother
+--- 21959220
+>>21958502
+I couldn't find a PDF of where the diagram was published, so I'm still unsure of Hough's full conception. However, this screencap is from the aforementioned book. I will read Frye's today.
+
+Upon further consideration, I realize that I should have included hieratic in my interests. Orthodox icons, like mantras and mandalas, exist for utilitarian ends- a spiritual utilitarianism. Novels, however, due to their length and breadth, are too unwieldy for such a purpose. Fairytales, whose form and objects are chiefly functional, on the other hand, I believe must be classed as hieratic, thus more just than novels. I think the efflorescence of the novel in an increasingly bourgeois and Protestant Europe should demonstrate the novel's affinities. My points here may help illuminate my preferences for you. Imagism is merely realism without commentary and is equally impotent. I enjoy Shakespeare, Pope, and Wilde for their quotability.
+--- 21959253
+>>21959220
+>I enjoy Shakespeare, Pope, and Wilde for their quotability.
+I should add that their witty figures make them quotable. I prefer Shakespeare and Wilde for their beauty over Pope.
+--- 21959294
+>>21913852
+Beautiful
+--- 21959678
+le feu follet
+
+le feu follet s'invente,
+le feu follet s'invite,
+il s'évente des ciels
+où s'envole son fiel.
+
+il se prend tous les airs
+d'un roi tout débonaire,
+il se perd dans la brume
+où ses flammes s'enfumment.
+
+éperdument vivant,
+innocent, ennivrant,
+on le pousse à règner
+sans qu'on puisse le renier.
+
+on le poursuit toujours,
+peu importe où il court !
+et puis tombe le jour,
+nous surprenant de court.
+--- 21959955
+>>21912960
+Your poetry is shit. Kill yourself loser.
+--- 21960188
+...
+
+I fuck the pussy hard. I fuck it with my willy.
+I fuck it fuck it fuck I’m fucking pussy fuck fuck going silly.
+Zooble dooble dop dop pop ploor beep borp booble doop.
+Boloobleooble oopy dop bogooble zoopy boop.
+Just wanna make my wiener strong so Mommy will be proud.
+If I fuck another mommy Mommy frowns and says I’m not allowed.
+I’m confused though cause this isn’t love. I’m stuck under a spell.
+It’s not my heart that does it. It’s my wiener and it does it well.
+Gotta make the pussy cum. Gotta make her cry.
+Then later I’ll go home and think about how much I want to die.
+--- 21960613
+>>21913630
+fuck off
+--- 21960641
+>>21913630
+eff u
+--- 21961395
+The stiff shaft of man
+The glazed complexion of lust
+Trans rights, Human rights
+No human is ILLEGAL 
+Chud, dear chud
+BORN AGAIN
+--- 21961560
+>>21958737
+God is only a construction of man. Any true God would not be able to be defined, nor contacted nor constructed within our scabby dimensions. Any text that tells you to perform specific ritualistic, and repetitive service can not be of any product of God, and only the ritualistic enslavement of individuality to the known, for corrupt power within the known, and fear of the unknown, for the shallow promise of power
+
+If we are even a glint of some God then why be cowards and cower to the petty and semantic? Fuck religion
+--- 21961725
+I want to send this to my friend that likes poetry. Let me know if this is good enough to share.
+
+
+My Friend is a Bee
+
+On pollen search
+In branches perched,
+She hums her honey tune.
+At journey's end,
+My cherished Friend
+Will bring her hive to you.
+--- 21961937
+Plush
+
+Are you still there?
+Tucked and gathered
+Amidst my legs,
+Taking tender breaths.
+
+A fleeced joy
+Of sickness and relief,
+Not seen or heard
+In gloam, but pet. 
+
+A smell,
+Like you or me, or both? 
+Caught on our shivers,
+Together under wraps.
+
+You carry us further 
+On to silvers and lilacs 
+Of maybe-thoughts 
+And the softly waning horizon.
+
+Just wrote this tonight, pls don't be mean
+--- 21961954
+>>21961560
+dont waste time with him

lit/21932156.txt

@@ -1009,3 +1009,54 @@ The only difference between what he does and actual Platonism what that, while P
 1. The fact that a book states something never means that it is true, therefore it does not matter how much you interpret a book: by interpreting you can only say "what the book truly says", which is never and will never be the same as saying "how things truly are". When you interpret something, you make statements about the object you interpret (the book) not about the objects referenced by what you interpret (the states of affait the book claims to describe).
 2. I have never met a Guenon reader who actually bothered reading any of the sources he quotes, and I can assure you that once you do (as I did) you either despair or laugh loudly at how wrong he is. But Guenon readers don't want to read, they want to be right, which is why the read Guenon, who validates absolute trite and banal points on traditional values and modes of existing, rather than his sources, which address life and existence in a complex way that requires actual study. They prefer reading interpretations of books than read books, i.e. they prefer playing with the idea that since someone said something then it must be right, instead of picking up some primary source, learn an ancient fucking language for once, read the fucking book and THINK ABOUT IT BY YOURSELF trying to see if it matches reality for you or not.
 This is what a philosopher does. Otherwise you can keep being a philologist and enjoy your Dungeon & Dragons game with your friends.
+--- 21957893
+>>21957853
+>I said that his metaphysics is Platonic in nature, in that he assumes an higher metaphysical order informs reality.
+Reality is one and nondual, all that informs reality is not metaphysical, higher and lower degrees belong to the world of duality, which is not really metaphysical. There is no metaphysical order.
+
+Anyway, I actually agree with you a fair bit. Point 1. And 2. All I know is that Reality cannot be known or said, the monosyllable OM is enough, in that any syllable is enough, any word expresses that incommuncable intuition of non-difference, the more strange and alien the more unitive. After a point there is no return, and you no longer remember where exactly you departed from. Or if anything can be stopped, of course it can't. 
+So yeah I don't really care. I enjoy not thinking as much as I used to.
+--- 21957898
+>>21957853
+You just can't get through to zombified guenonians :/
+--- 21957919
+>>21932156 (OP)
+Why should you read this guy again?
+--- 21958971
+guenonians/traditionalists, whatever. and their pseudo-metaphysics fruit of arbitrary symbolical research mixing up completely different doctrines have already been completely obliterated (picrel)
+
+get a taste:
+
+mistaken presentation of Vedanta:
+https://www.ekatosedizioni.it/advitiya-caitanyavada/
+https://www.ekatosedizioni.it/lucciole-per-lanterne-ancora-gli-incompetenti-di-vedanta/
+https://www.ekatosedizioni.it/lucciole/
+https://scienzasacra.blogspot.com/2020/09/gian-giuseppe-filippi-proposito-di.html
+
+"Metaphysics" built upon fundamental errors:
+https://vedavyasamandala.com/essere-o-non-essere/
+
+
+Their critique of the modern world is useful (althought mistaken sometimes, as already showed by Wolfgang Smith) for our times, but that's just it.
+--- 21958980
+>>21932156 (OP)
+Remembered in various Sufi circles in Pakistan
+--- 21960643
+bump
+--- 21960789
+Do you people actually read Guenon? I thought it was just one guy spamming these threads.
+--- 21960812
+>>21960789
+Hes quite readable. A little long winded but at least it's clear. If you want the tldr of his metaphysics the first 20 or so pages of The Multiple States of Being tells you what his deal is. It's a bit like neoplatonism. 
+
+Most of his books are these very roundabout digressions on symbols in culture and history and what they mean in relation to metaphysics, rather than being strictly about metaphysics.
+--- 21960860
+>>21960789
+dont fall for the meme.
+fell down a rabbit hole trying to find who was behind all of the spamming, and found out most of the spammers come from "poast", it's some twitter clone where teenagers with anime pfps larp as blue-collar workers that read esoteric nazism. its genuinely /b/ levels of retardation
+--- 21961077
+>>21958971
+thanks
+--- 21961504
+>>21960789
+guenonfag has been spamming his shit for 7 years now and has attracted not 1 person into his schizo postings because once you actually read Guenon, you will know how much of a brainlet he was.

lit/21936988.txt

@@ -393,3 +393,70 @@ depends on your definition
 --- 21957402
 >>21956697
 Sebastiane
+--- 21958640
+boomp
+--- 21959641
+>>21951367
+I've studied Biblical Hebrew on the university (I know teach it, I post here once in a while). I've also tried teaching myself Akkadian, and now I'm learning it on the university, I strongly recommend studying somethig else. Go and learn philosophy or something else that's interesting for you, and then ask the professor to join Akkadian/Egyptian course. In most cases they will be very open and helpful because they are quite unpopular languages.
+--- 21959961
+>>21959641
+>I strongly recommend studying somethig else. Go and learn philosophy or something else that's interesting for you, and then ask the professor to join Akkadian/Egyptian course.
+Why learn philosophy or something else THEN Akkadian/Egyptian? That doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to study Semitic / Afro-Asiatic, then study that, not Kant.
+--- 21959983
+>>21956844
+Still it is hard for me to choose between the two. On the one hand, I have a great affinity for Egyptian culture, history and the languages. And the track contains fieldwork in Egypt.
+On the other hand, the Cuneiform languages are by it self fascinating and will help me learn other Semitic languages. Moreover, the university has probably one of the best collection of Cuneiform tablets in the world. 
+The Cambridge acceptance rate is at a 75% with 14-16 offers per year.
+For Egyptology the acceptance rate is 36% with 2-5 offers per year.
+Do you think Assyriology has more academic prospects than Egyptology?
+--- 21959997
+>"Latin is the most versatile language!"
+>No present passive participle
+>No perfect active participle
+--- 21960002
+>>21959999 →
+--- 21960025
+>>21959983
+I'm a bit biased because I grew up with a prejudice towards Egypt. To explain that briefly, people and pop culture would go crazy for mummies, spooooky, but I didn't see the appeal. Now, I've overcome much of that bias but not entirely. You might have noticed a similar type of hype for Egypt, a hype that doesn't exist for Mesopotamia. Egypt is great. It's has a wealth of history and culture. More work must be and will be done. < You could say that for just about every field of ancient history. But between Egyptology is without a doubt overhyped compared to Assyriology.
+Regarding job prospects, by Egyptology, are you willing to include Coptology? If so, there are definitely better job prospects, especially when you consider all of the archaeology jobs, if you think you want to commit to archaeology. When you list Cambridge in the stats you gave, is that for Assyriology? I'm not quite clear. It doesn't matter anyhow. I'm just curious.
+The best thing for you to do is talk to a professor you know well and are on good terms with, or find a random grad student to talk to.
+--- 21960092
+>>21960025
+>is that for Assyriology?
+The first stat is for Assyriology yes. For Oxford the accept rates are much lower at around 30% for both fields.
+>Coptology
+Coptic is heavily taught during the Egyptology track and I find it the most fascinating, out of of the Egyptian languages. So I don't mind that as a job.
+I will speak to the lead professors of both tracks in a few months and ask for more information regarding prospects.
+It seems to me as well that Egyptology is "overhyped" when compared to Assyriology and the market oversaturated. This is reflected in the stats before. With there even being years of 0 accepted at the Egyptology track and the lower acceptance rate.
+--- 21960127
+in hoc filo caco
+--- 21960285
+>>21936988 (OP)
+bump
+--- 21960389
+>>21960002
+Wrong thread?
+--- 21960415
+>>21960092
+Just an FYI, if you can afford to travel to Minnesota, HMML in conjunction with Dumbarton Oaks offers Coptic (and other languages) with free room and board over the summer to graduate students (and others) lacking the opportunity to study the language. But I bet you can find a way to study Coptic at your school while in the Assyriology track, if you really want.
+Best wishes, and I hope to see you stick around in this thread.
+--- 21960585
+>>21960415
+>Minnesota, HMML
+It is an ocean across, so I won't be attending that! Although thanks for the information anyway.
+Yes, I can and will study Coptic at university through electives. The course material is in French and German, which seems to be a recurring thing with Assyriology/Egyptology. Are you in America expected to know French and German as well?
+--- 21960915
+>>21960127
+tam male cacavisti
+exsistat ars cacandi, sed nescis
+--- 21961398
+>>21960585
+>Are you in America expected to know French and German as well?
+Only in graduate school. In undergrad, many Classics programs don't even require Greek or Latin, which I don't mind, but it's gotten to the point where language course offerings are very limited.
+In grad school, students are expected to know two modern languages that can be used to help you study. German is very strongly encouraged, but not required, and the second suggestion in Classics is usually French or Italian, but I think there is some flexibility (Spanish, Modern Greek).
+Since you're in Europe, this might interest you: 
+https://www.universiteitleiden.nl/en/education/study-programmes/summer-schools/summer-school-in-languages-and-linguistics/program
+--- 21961406
+>>21961398
+>many Classics programs don't even require Greek or Latin
+>which I don't mind

lit/21949579.txt

@@ -488,3 +488,76 @@ Glad I read it recently so I can see when people give dumb arguments for and aga
 --- 21957847
 >>21954101
 Lol smoke some more crack you fucking idiot
+--- 21957865
+>>21951486
+Close, but can tell you still didn't read it fully. You read spark notes. Also you're gay.
+--- 21957924
+>>21950026
+Can you come the fuck down, though?
+
+Because the problem isn't big government, we don't have a big government, what little we have is corrupt, rotten to it's core, yes, but it is the minimal, vestigal bureaucracy that is in front of, is the scapegoat for, a far bigger, far more amoral corporate bureaucracies of finance and industry.
+--- 21957994
+>>21954153
+I accept your concession.
+--- 21957999
+>>21954112
+All talk and no game. Land Chads will just read this, laugh, then raise your rent. By the way next you owe for May. Full $2000 rent is due no later than April 29th. Don't pay or get evicted. No refunds on the security deposit.
+--- 21958035
+>>21949579 (OP)
+I actually still like it despite shifting away from libertarianism myself
+--- 21958199
+>>21950231
+Well said, especially when the money we get paid in loses value because of central banks printing more, causing inflation.
+--- 21958207
+>>21949579 (OP)
+I agree, the book disgusted me very early on. Surprise surprise the author is Jewish
+--- 21958209
+>>21956297
+Agreed, currency debasement should be illegal.
+--- 21958455
+>>21949615
+Yes unironcially. Never met a poor person who didn't deserve to be poor. Poor people are stupid, lazy, and impulsive
+--- 21959736
+>>21958455
+I have met some, but it's true of >90% of them, and the rest were just decent people. Romanticizing poor people (outside monk vows) was a mistake.
+--- 21960162
+>>21949579 (OP)
+>your community
+I rarely see another white face living here anymore
+I wouldn't lift a finger for these animals, they're opportunistic parasites not a community
+and oddly enough if I could go back in time to before this was the state of my home I'd be ready to participate solely by killing all those boomer traitors who sold the west away
+--- 21960204
+>>21960162
+Why do so many people itt blame communism or marxism for the state of the west? Liberalism going insane and the invasion of the third world is purely a result of profiteering businesses. I genuinely don't understand how anyone can object to this. Globalism is an economic principle, not a social one. Do the words 'international elite' mean nothing to you? 'Capitalism' doesn't care about civic virtue or national coherence and readily expends these things for profit, with the development of modern technology this isn't just a possibility but an inevitability. Capital will always flow down the path of least resistance, it's completely antithetical to long term planning as all of the endless buyouts and bailouts should make obvious.
+--- 21960229
+>>21956288
+>You forget to mention how a house should not be 1+ million dollars. It is all 100% fake and gay slavery by design. NOT capitalism.
+If the house isn't worth a million dollars then why do people people that much for it? This is capitalism 101 dude. Stop seething just because you're a lazy poorfag.
+--- 21960237
+>>21960229
+A house is worth a million dollars because it is part of the white genocide, they import a flood of chinks and pajeets while doing nothing about the poison drug supply. All that remains in society are the most cucked and beta faggot white people who take the COVID "vaccines" and bow their heads like faggots while the country turns to complete shit. Houses 20 years ago were 150k within 30 minutes of Vancouver and the place was great.
+
+Now? Total shit country.
+
+Kill yourself faggot.
+--- 21960241
+>>21960229
+Cucked whites literally paid for this with their tax dollars:
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb55teb1gJ0 [Embed]
+
+Kill yourself faggot
+--- 21960606
+>>21960162
+Canada?
+--- 21960828
+>>21956587
+Ever been to a flea market?
+That's what unrestrained free market capitalism looks like in practice.
+Boring yet functional.
+--- 21960836
+>>21957994
+>Sling insults until the other guy gets fed up and leaves
+>Declares victory days later
+
+Petty and pathetic.

lit/21951933.txt

@@ -294,3 +294,137 @@ With most zoomers like this there's no challenge to their perceived knowlege and
 --- 21957829
 >>21953832
 easy, light and fun - older people read more for entertainment
+--- 21957930
+None of my friends read as far as I know
+In my family only women (sister, mom, grandma) read some fiction for women.
+t. Poland
+--- 21957942
+>>21951933 (OP)
+His telegram account be like:
+>This person is jewish
+>Israel has sent me a spam mail
+>Look, that person is called Goldberg
+>BAP is a jewish psy op
+>Woah... that person might be jewish
+It honestly seems ridiculous
+--- 21958003
+>>21951933 (OP)
+I'm a young millennial, or a zillennial, and since I don't like e-readers, I'll occasionally take a book with me whenever I'm expecting a wait. You'd think I was brandishing a porn magazine from the way some people have acted when they see me with one.
+
+Forget zoomers, though. Gen Alpha's the ones who are well and truly fucked. They're mid 2010s-present and are basically handed a tablet fresh out of the womb.
+--- 21958943
+>>21951933 (OP)
+Reading has plummeted ever since TV what the hell did you expect? Zoomers, with the Internet, YouTube, TikTok, live service video games and streaming services at their palms reading actual books? Reading Wikipedia is a rarity nowadays for Zoomers, and you expect one to pick up a book from German Idealism?
+
+Cap fr
+--- 21958996
+>>21957942
+Based, if you don't get the JQ stuff and why it is so important to discuss, you might just be retarded.
+--- 21959102
+>>21958996
+It's like 90% of what he posts about. If you think the JQ is the primary angle from which to view and understand society, history and the modern world, you might just be retarded.
+--- 21959406
+>>21959102
+>If you think the JQ is the primary angle
+Enlighten me, what is the correct primary angle from which to look at modernity? Just say you are Jewish and be done with it.
+--- 21959430
+>>21951963
+I despise the age of the informatic youtube video. People idly consuming about a wiki page's worth of information attached to a slide show with some jokes and never reading a book and thinking they know shit about fuck.
+--- 21959532
+>>21955468
+Based Brideshead enjoyer
+--- 21959542
+>>21951933 (OP)
+Keef is the most important figure in the online right in the past decade. If you are a true white conservative dissident who wants solutions you will take the Keefpill
+
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BdZ8MMBDKM [Embed]
+--- 21959553
+>>21959406
+>Just say you are Jewish and be done with it.
+lmao. How much self-awareness can one lack? Anyone who critiques your position is Jewish. At this point you have already revealed yourself to be a pathetic clown. That's not a worldview, that's a mental illness. As to the question itself, technological progress alone is already a vastly more significant factor than any activity of individuals or groups of individuals. The major forces determining historical change are simply technological. Individual psychology barely has any effect on social movements.
+--- 21959615
+>>21959542
+How old are you
+--- 21959629
+>>21951933 (OP)
+i see chicks post images of them holding stacks of trash novels everyday on instagram, so at least they buy the books
+--- 21959799
+>>21952155
+>did young people in other generations read classic literature?
+From a historical perspective, yes. Early schooling in Europe during the Medieval Ages was designed to prepare young people (albeit the upper strata) to become priests and lawyers, which naturally meant plenty of Aristotle. Following this were the humanists who had a real hard-on for classical society.
+--- 21959854
+>>21954570
+>can any of you pseuds tell me the difference between reading and masturbation?
+Most forms of entertainment are just mental masturbation (IE Surrogate Activities) unless they serve some sort of purpose, like reading Cervantes or Borges in their original language to help learn Spanish. For me, all the books I read were to help me become a writer myself.
+--- 21959869
+>>21951933 (OP)
+>Do the Zoomers of your area read books?
+When I tried dating apps like Tinder and Bumble, only one or two girls I ever saw on there had literature or writing as one of their hobbies, despite me swiping on hundreds of different profiles.
+--- 21959912
+>>21959542
+He's handsome wtf.
+--- 21960030
+>>21951963
+Yep that's me
+--- 21960152
+>>21951957
+I wouldn't say they're gay. They're not gay, they're all mostly straight. they just like makign up titles for themselves. the women think they're too good to be just a woman, so they come up with a bunch of nutty crap like "aroace" or "fempresenting nonbinary afab polydemiromantic" and say it with a straight face. it's the new zodiac signs. they even come with little flags. all those totally not women women are still taking dick.
+--- 21960222
+>>21959102
+>If you think the JQ is the primary angle from which to view and understand society, history and the modern world, you might just be retarded.
+Or, extremely incisive and knowledgeable?
+--- 21960243
+>>21960238
+Do you think they made the beast with two backs?
+--- 21960260
+>>21959542
+This is honestly one of the best dissident right videos I've seen. He's actually proposing a genuine ideology that counters liberalism and globalism; unlike literally all other idiots on the right who spend all their time reacting to MegaCorp™'s newest tranny ad campaign. Send this video to your local Cuckservative—it might just wake them up.
+
+
+luv keef
+simple as
+--- 21960283
+>>21951965
+>>21951965
+>Yes. And the ones who think for themselves are often incredibly right-wing, funnily enough
+
+There is absolutely zero evidence of a statistically significant right-wing zoomer movement. 
+
+What's that? 2 out of every 100 zoomers are willing to say that there are only 2 genders? Something that was so blatantly obvious to boomers at the same age that it never crossed anyone's mind? Wooow.
+--- 21960310
+>>21955755
+Youtube's algorithm prioritizes faces. The videos won't get as much attention if his face isn't in the thumbnail. 
+
+>>21960260
+No he isn't, he's failing at engaging in e-drama and shilling for the pro-sodomy party of another country.
+--- 21960323
+>>21960310
+>No he isn't, he's failing at engaging in e-drama and shilling for the pro-sodomy party of another country.
+What pro-sodomy party? If you mean the Republican Party, he isn't supporting them at all.
+--- 21960335
+>>21960310
+>No he isn't, he's failing at engaging in e-drama and shilling for the pro-sodomy party of another country.
+
+What the fuck are you talking about retard
+--- 21960338
+>>21960323
+>instructing people to vote for candidates of the us republican party
+that is by definition supporting the republic party
+--- 21960345
+>>21960338
+>>21960310
+Supporting gay pedophiles is based when America First does it, though.
+--- 21960432
+>>21960283
+>There is absolutely zero evidence of a statistically significant right-wing zoomer movement.
+Of course there isn't. Everyone is forced into silence retard. It's the same with polls, none of them can be trusted, especially after 2016
+--- 21961343
+>>21951933 (OP)
+I'm the only one I know IRL who reads. So no, they don't read.
+--- 21961381
+>>21960238
+When will they learn...
+--- 21961397
+>>21951933 (OP)
+The only thing all zoomers do is be born after 1997. we're a group of individuals. some are well read and some are not. the fact I have to explain this to you implies that you're probably more retarded than the zoomies you hate. or you're just baiting for replies.

lit/21952474.txt

@@ -555,3 +555,95 @@ You have no idea how cringy and gay and even maudlin this kind of rhetoric has g
 --- 21957271
 >>21955881
 >Whiter than you Hans
+--- 21957863
+>>21957234
+If you understand nature and you do not destroy it, then you don't understand it. Nothing about nature is worthy of appreciation, nothing about nature is beautiful, your mother is compost, insects defecating in her own mouth in the process of auto-fellatio. 
+Your will is a part of that automatism, so is your the psycho-physical complex boring idealists like you and devi call beings. This world is a disgusting place, whilst I continue to completely detach myself from everything and overcome the human condition, you can go on eating your feces, and appreciating your skin suit, you sack of shit.
+--- 21958013
+>/pol/ thread about ressentiment-filled fantasies of a "victory" at a later date by later people against current "enemies"
+if you only knew how "Semitic" you really are
+--- 21958024
+>>21957863
+This reminds me of the Magandiya Sutta (Sn 4.9).
+
+[Magandiya offers his daughter to the Buddha, who replies:]
+On seeing [the daughters of Mara]
+— Discontent, Craving, & Passion —
+there wasn't even the desire for sex.
+So what would I want with this,
+filled with urine & excrement?
+I wouldn't want to touch it
+ even with my foot.
+--- 21958055
+Don't feed the Judaizing troll.
+--- 21958106
+>>21958024
+>Magandiya Sutta 
+I wonder what Vajrayana Buddhists who literally swear vows to urine and excrement in the highest tantras think about this Sutta, what do you thibk.
+--- 21958164
+>>21955444
+Because their mission is also to destroy freedom of thought, just like the Nazis and fags throughout history (National Socialism and Judaism are both overtly homosexual cultures, the Nazis were just better at hiding it).
+--- 21958166
+>>21958106
+>Vajrayana
+Tibetan voodoo/santeria/umbanda
+--- 21958175
+Part of me really wants to see that English anon actually attempt to start his race war, if only for how funny it will be when he's inevitably beaten to death by a Carribean family as he attempts a home invasion.
+
+>I-I'm gonna cleanse your impure bloodline!
+
+>Mate, this is our lounge.
+
+News will just report "Body of local homosexual found dumped in canal"
+
+His mother was reportedly "relieved"
+--- 21958193
+One thing that NatSocs don't ever seem to think about is the amount of whites that will be completely against their stupid race war. Wouldn't it suck to lose MORE whites in the process then gain?
+--- 21958330
+True genius of her time. Kek
+--- 21958419
+just read some of her stuff...... holy CRAP shes definatly based
+--- 21958645
+>>21956585
+>Yet, mouth breathing incel nazi larpers can’t accept muh hitlers prophet was giving her coochie to a poo and come up with the dumbest excuses
+You're lying of course. You have no proof
+--- 21958835
+What’s the rationale behind wanting to protect all living beings and then wanting to genocide all Jews? Please explain to me in a logical and coherent, non-edgy way.
+--- 21958860
+>>21958193
+Race traitors don't matter.
+--- 21959885
+>>21952503
+They're absolutely nothing alike.
+--- 21960360
+>>21957863
+>t. noahide
+--- 21960581
+>>21958835
+
+>What’s the rationale behind wanting to protect a certain types of whites and then wanting to genocide everybody else? Please explain to me in a logical and coherent, non-edgy way.
+
+ftfy
+--- 21960645
+>>21952474 (OP)
+Is she really worthwhile?
+I only have so much attention span in-between vegetative states of scroller brain. She sounds a little bit like a meme given that she was white and changed her name to an Indian-sounding one. I'm not trying to bait I genuinely don't know where to stand on this woman. We both agree Hitler is not satan at least.
+--- 21960669
+>>21960645
+>Is she really worthwhile?
+Yes. A thousand times yes. Especially The Lightning and the Sun, her magnum opus. It is a truthful retelling of the deeper meaning of Hitler in the evolution of the world. Her main belief is that Hitler created something that is ultimately destined to remake the world. The link is here to TLATS
+>>21952488
+Most 4chan users who talk about her are clueless and deluded, and have clearly never read anything of her many works..
+
+https://savitridevi.org/savitri_devi_works/
+--- 21960742
+>>21960581
+I don’t get it. Who is making that claim?
+--- 21960866
+>>21960742
+Just look at the past few posts on this thread. Or the many other race-bait/natsoc threads on this site. It all has a very common theme of protecting certain types of whites and getting rid of everybody else, not just Jews. 
+
+I do have to add that some of these fellows that believe in the idea of race superiority DO NOT agree with getting rid of all minorities or hurting them at all. They simply want a mostly homogenous state, which is an idea I can agree with. They also want a lack of Jews within their state. Which in many cases have been shown to fuck up several governments for personal gain.
+--- 21961710
+>>21961315
+This is doubly true since television and exponentially more so since the iPhone came out. (with regards to owning the tech in each case, not literacy)

lit/21952685.txt

@@ -72,3 +72,62 @@ I don’t think that’s a negative review though
 --- 21957858
 >>21952863
 Have you read The possibility of an island? I think that was no less a masterpiece
+--- 21957872
+>>21954181
+>He rightly identifies the only way out for western hellhole countries (by retvrning to tradition)
+Houellebecq certainly isn't that stupid, he very well understands that those traditions are at best good for some bittersweet melancholy about times of greater cultural strength, but theres no turning back the clock and just whisking modernity away.
+--- 21958124
+>>21957872
+Yes, quite right - modernity happened. These traditions are not only backwards-facing, though. Religion can apply in any time and place - not just the middle ages (for europeans) and the middle east (for muslims). The future will be post-liberal (not pre-liberal). Something we haven't quite worked out yet. I think this is what Houellebecq is getting at in some way.
+--- 21959582
+>>21952685 (OP)
+While the conclusion seems interesting he doesn't really go on about it which would off been the most interesting part of the book. He did an excellent job on the fucked up hippy parent generation. However, he fucked up the death of the 3 women. Bruno's girl was gangbaned into paralysis and then offed herself. The other guy's wife either had cancer or couldn't get kids anymore or something like this and also killed herself. And then you have their mother more or less dying of age which isn't particulary constructed like the other two but in context of the other two and in close proximity to their death and the ending of the book it feels rushed but it gives a good comparision that the uber whore that enabled the lesser whores hadn't had to suffer and didn't care about the shit that went wrong in her life.
+--- 21959792
+>>21958124
+
+Gott ist tot, mein Freund
+--- 21959887
+>oddly juvenile book.
+Is this the Blood Meridian thread?
+--- 21960405
+>>21957858
+That's actually his only novel that I haven't read. The sci-fi turned me off.
+--- 21960426
+>>21960405
+Give it a try. The sci-fi is a framing, the story is mostly told through memories from our time. The structure is actually quite ingenious.
+--- 21960447
+>>21952685 (OP)
+>Was the NYT right?
+Of course not. What were they talking about?
+--- 21960475
+>>21952685 (OP)
+Yes. Houellebecq is pure slop written for the lowest form of reader: the one who sits slack-jawed and nods along, thinking "finally, a guy who tells it like it is!"
+--- 21960516
+>>21960475
+I wonder why he makes some people seethe like this?
+--- 21960530
+>>21960516
+They feel found out. Many such cases
+--- 21960590
+>>21960516
+>any type of critique is "seething"
+The Wellbeckcel cries out in pain as he strikes you.
+--- 21960621
+>>21957858
+I thought it was complete trash, however the image of that girls hairy, shit filled asshole doggystyle will live in my head rent free for the rest of my live
+--- 21960633
+>>21954181
+>retvrning to tradition). Whether this is Islam or Catholicism
+Those aren't traditions, they were (are) the iconoclasts of traditions.
+--- 21960826
+>>21960475
+Spotted the soixante-huitard naturiste qui habite au cap d'agde
+--- 21961433
+>>21954181
+I enjoyed reading this. Thanks for posting. Mainly writing this because I want to add one positive reply to the mix of four edgy brainlets that lashed out at you.
+--- 21961443
+>>21959792
+God’s is eternal; you will die. Nice cope tho.
+--- 21961448
+>>21961443
+>inb4 people ignoring my post in favor of correcting “God’s is”

lit/21952985.txt

@@ -643,3 +643,459 @@ Also stop bitching like this, not even F. Gardener acts like this and people som
 --- 21957855
 >>21957834
 Dude wtf is this? The first sentence doesn't even make sense.
+--- 21957862
+>>21952985 (OP)
+Do you mean bullying book reviewers on YouTube?
+--- 21957867
+>>21957845
+I've been to several Writer's Fest type events, at least a dozen since 2015, and I was the only straight white guy at nearly every one of them.
+
+When I was trying to hire an editor before, I had about 2-3 replies in a couple of months.
+>I switched the ad to a gay sounding name like Starla Wonderchild or something equally mystical and gay, then advertised I was working on an LGBT novel and needed and editor and I had 50+ applications in like 2 days.
+
+I don't believe for a second that a straight white guy with even mild dissenting views like mine would ever get published traditionally. I'm not even allowed on social media, either. It's completely fucking useless to try the mainstream route because there is no organization that would take the risk of working with me JUST on my anti-COVID vaccine stance. That alone makes me untouchable, let alone my views that Canada has been completely sold out and that we are in a generational war of the old and established VS the young and totally ass-fucked.
+
+I mean, sure, I could try a pen name and pretend to be someone else to get published, but that feels like a total bitch move. Why would I want to hide? Because I'm a non-person in the conformist world of 2023?
+
+Is there even a SINGLE "rebellious" publishing house? When I toured all of the bookstores in my hometown of Vancouver, every single one was extremely woke and had tons of commie shit on the windows, the books front and center were all "decolonize" and other bullshit. Then when I moved to Kelowna, I hit the bookstores up locally and every single one was also extremely woke, then I joined a couple of book clubs and all four of them only wanted to read books about queerness and First Nations stories. I'm not opposed to broadening my horizons, but when the ENTIRE community and industry is hyper-focused on woke performative shit, it is hard to even want to be a part of it.
+
+Hell, when I stuck around for the lectures and workshops at the Writer's Fest in either 2017 or 2018, I shit you not that each speaker that got up on stage ALL OF THEM did a land acknowledgement. I sat through like 3 hours of speakers and must have heard "I'd like to acknowledge that I'm speak on native land of the Fiefhweflwsehfwefhow people", I almost thought I was watching a parody sketch. Do we need to know we're on "native land" more than a dozen times in 3 hours? What kind of ass-fuckery is this?
+--- 21957870
+>>21957855
+"The vigilante story is well-worn and used, it is still a popular topic, however, as I pour my own version into the literary world."
+--- 21957884
+>>21957855
+what did he mean by this?
+--- 21957889
+>>21957884
+"The vigilante story is well-worn and used, it is still a popular topic, however, as I pour my own version into the literary world."
+--- 21957906
+>>21957870
+Still doesn't make it good. 
+
+>>21957867
+Do you have to express your views? Even as a writer whos just writing fiction? Do people really need to know you didn't take the vax? Are you trying to fuck with your own career to "look oppressed"? It doesn't even sound like you tried to show your "amazing masterpiece of prose" to the libs to try to get it published. You just assumed they won't take your shit for being a "cis-white male" which by your account are the only one whos even writing books in your area. Judging by the way you write, I doubt anyone would actually take your shit. How about you man the fuck up and fix your shitty prose and STOP BITCHING.
+--- 21957911
+>>21957906
+this
+--- 21957921
+>>21957862
+it didn't happen that often
+--- 21957940
+>>21957889
+what did he mean by this?
+--- 21957975
+>>21957906
+"shitty prose"
+
+Get fucked loser, read the fucking book. It is excellent writing and these fucking idiots have only criticized the opening line because they are fucking morons who need to be spoon-fed. It's hard to be intelligent and have to write for an audience of fucking morons.
+--- 21957982
+>>21957906
+Are you a fucking moron? What about 2023 tells you that a straight white male writer with dissenting views can get a fair shake? I'm not even allowed on social media you fucking idiot, why would any mainstream publishing company even look at my shit when they can publish some tranny who wrote 30 chapters about the smell of their neo-vagina and easily sell it and market it, when how the FUCK are they going to market a book called "The Shitkickers" to an audience of mostly women you absolute fucking retard? Name ONE traditionally published alternative writer?
+
+You're clearly delusional if you think dissenting voices have any fucking place in modern, traditional publishing. We do not even have a place on social media, instead, we have shitholes like this with complete faggots who do nothing but attack you over the opening line of your book because they are too stupid to understand shit without being spoon-fed.
+
+Next book I'll make sure to write for a dumber fucking audience.
+--- 21958001
+>>21957995
+>>21957991
+Go fuck yourselves, I'm going back to lurking, but instead of encouraging people to write and telling people to follow their dreams, I'm going to shit all over them, tell them they are NEVER going to make it, and tell them to kill themselves. I sincerely hope I can bully someone into actually taking their fucking lives, that would be funny!
+
+Fuck all of you faggots, I'm going to enjoy anonymously shitting all over people who aspire to write on here. I'm going to become the Megacrab.
+--- 21958066
+>>21957975
+>>21957982
+>>21958001
+You're an absolute bitch Jason. Sorry. The way you act is unironically moronic. F. Gardner is less of a bitch then YOU. Let that sink in. You are unironically acting like a woman. You are not making things look better for yourself. Now get off /lit/ and rethink your life choices. Maybe then you can actually come up with a good story that isn't shit.
+--- 21958121
+>>21957975
+>>21957982
+>>21958001
+man the fuck up faggot
+--- 21958198
+>>21952985 (OP)
+I might get a good deal of shit for this post but fuck it.
+I started using Kiwi Farms years ago after /cow/ died. I was genuinely shocked at how well limiting user registration and slapping "date joined" tag on user accounts was at filtering people. It really helped maintaining a consistent quality of discussions. Unironically the best replacement for /biz/ is on there and its surprising to see just how many categories of discussion there are beyond stalking internet retards. 
+If you don't mind a slow moving forum its actually a pretty comfy.
+--- 21958251
+>>21958198
+nah fuck that m8, I don't want to get doxxed
+--- 21958437
+The innate structure of having to respond to keep a thread alive and the limited number of active threads and limited size of threads makes it impossible to have a truly deep meaningful conversation about anything on here. Books don't end on a character limit. You should write your 80 page essay and maybe a decade from now someone will write an 80 page essay in return. And that's how it should be. Long form communication is a lost art. Why go on /lit/ when I can just read a topic of interest?
+
+>>21957745
+You can't force a high effort post with the innate nature that is 4chan. Anonymity is not even an issue. Heavy moderation would just lead into a ghost town.
+--- 21959302
+We did it guys. We turned the 44-year-old burnout into a Megacrab.
+--- 21959321
+>>21959302
+shut up fag, why are still here
+--- 21959348
+>>21959321
+Just woke up.
+--- 21959364
+>>21959348
+anyway, tell me about your writing process, how did you wrote your magnum opus, so to speak
+--- 21959433
+I was the anon who shitted on Lewis Woolston in his AMA thread, which was why Jason was so convinced that /lit/ has a "crabs-in-bucket" mentality. I didn't talk bad about Lewis Woolston because he was a "writer" but because he keeps shilling his book everywhere. Jason is the same. He claims to be an excellent writer whose work is equal to God's and will be loved if simply read, which is why he keeps posting images of his book's cover, and that /lit/ is some sort of hate-machine, but, simply put, his book is bad. It's the sort of ironic one-vacuous-random-attempt-at-shocking-you-moment-after-another claptrap that David Foster Wallace belittled in the 90s. There's no real human emotions or ideas in that book. More importantly, Jason can't seem to comprehend the possibility that his book is bad, and believes that any suggestion to the contrary is the utterance of wrathful "crabs". Reading this thread and seeing him so royally pissed off is the funniest thing I've seen in a while. His narcissism is hilarious.
+--- 21959480
+>>21953017
+I miss /l/ :(
+--- 21959482
+>>21959433
+and what happened to narcissus?
+--- 21959491
+>>21959482
+He lived happily ever after.
+--- 21959506
+>>21959491
+yeah nah, I've heard different things m8
+--- 21959571
+>>21959433
+I was sad to see the Woolston thread deleted, because a published author (even if it's a small press) taking questions from /lit/ without hiding his identity is pretty unique, and his advice can be helpful to other aspiring authors. I don't see it as strictly shilling. Woolston is not just some hate speech peddler from Twitter who wants to put his favorite /pol/pastas in a kindle book and make a quick buck; he's the genuine article, if only for picking the route he did. Now I can understand that cover-spamming can get on anyone's nerves though, and in the end Woolston's answers weren't all that enlightening. Still, anything and anyone that pushes /lit/ just a little bit out of selfpub hell is okay in my book. YMMV.
+
+Jason is a dumb cunt who thinks art works like porn affiliate marketing. But hey, his book has one five-star rating on Amazon, what do I know? Perhaps his "fresh ideas and dissenting views" on feminazis and land acknowledgement are simply too hot me to handle.
+--- 21959957
+>>21953346
+this isn't /book/, it's /lit/. sci-fi isn't literature. kys
+--- 21959958
+>>21959571
+Kill yourself faggot.
+--- 21959960
+>>21958121
+Kill yourself nigger.
+--- 21959973
+>>21953346
+Kill yourself loser.
+--- 21960227
+>>21958251
+>I don't want to get doxxed
+Yeah nobody cares who you are and here's a huge cyber security tip never use the same username and have several unconnected burner emails. 
+Congrats you just protected yourself from the doxing ability of 99% of the internet, outside of being fished or releasing personal info yourself you are practically undoxable.
+--- 21960231
+>>21960227
+How about you just kill yourself?
+--- 21960265
+>>21952985 (OP)
+>implying that tradlarpers haven't saved the board
+--- 21960275
+>>21960265
+It didn't need saving, but now it needs saving from them.
+--- 21960298
+>>21953894
+>>21955532
+At least some anons get it. There's no beating this board with Cioran, Land, Mishima, Evola and Spengler. Enough about Lolita and Blood fucking Meridian already.
+--- 21960300
+>>21960298
+Just end it all, anon, you know you want to
+--- 21960316
+>>21960298
+>Cioran, Land, Mishima, Evola and Spengler
+permavirgin convention
+--- 21960392
+>>21955895
+Explain.
+--- 21960521
+>>21955184
+I just picked it up too, please do.
+--- 21960540
+>>21953543
+Start with 8th C. BC (Iliad), fool.
+--- 21960626
+>>21959433
+Don't worry that fat fag deserved it for facefagging on 4chan and not being able to take banter. That thread had me rolling with laughter and I was half-considering joining in myself.
+--- 21960654
+>>21952985 (OP)
+
+
+That was 2010 to 2011.
+
+
+>That suspended anticipatory feeling when one was, both: a child during the "Y 2 K" era, and an adolescent during /lit/'s glory days: old enough to remember, and to partake of, the pulchritude of both, yet too young to participate in the itricacies of either.
+
+Verily, born for the end.
+--- 21960743
+>>21952985 (OP)
+nope
+quantum computers will burn to the ground everything what we knew about information technologies
+Q-tech era + AI + wireless + BrainDirect + all owned by jewish pedophile trannies
+--- 21960807
+>>21957745
+The average anon here doesn't even have the attention span to read a high-effort post nevermind reply with one of their own. Go find some friends who read irl instead relying on a group of losers at the ass-end of the internet.
+--- 21960976
+>>21959957
+>sci-fi isn't literature
+but it is tho
+--- 21961059
+>>21960521
+don quixote reading - 20th may
+the magic mountain reading - possible
+the moby dick reading - weekly
+the homer reading - 10th may
+--- 21961070
+>>21952994
+I've been out for a while. What happened with the plotinus one? Did y'all akshually finish it? Or did it just fizzle out as usual?
+--- 21961084
+>>21955190
+--- 21961106
+>>21960654
+As a /lit/ OG, who barely even bothers to lurk here anymore, let alone post, this is true. 
+
+And most of the people talking about a return to /lit/'s glory days would go insane with how slow the board used to be. The sticky still talks about this place being slow, but it's light years faster now than what it once was.
+--- 21961111
+>>21960540
+>>21960626
+>>21960654
+>>21960743
+>>21960807
+>>21960976
+>>21961059
+>>21961070
+>>21961084
+>>21961106
+kys
+--- 21961120
+>>21961111
+kys to you too fren
+--- 21961146
+>>21954242
+What happened at this meeting? I recognise the 4chan mod, Tim pool and the podcast comedian.
+--- 21961232
+>>21961059
+Alright, I'll start the Magic Mountain reading myself.
+--- 21961237
+>>21961232
+thanks, I'll join
+--- 21961242
+>>21961232
+Kill yourself faggot nigger
+--- 21961244
+No its not the purpose of the 4chan psyop is to destroy the lives of young men and erode society. 4chan will only get progressively worse as ot poisons everything it touches. Get out while you are not totally idocraced beyond salvation.
+--- 21961263
+>>21961242
+You can stop seething now Jason, someone already said they'll read your book.
+--- 21961270
+>>21961237
+Do you have any preferences or recommendations for timeframes?
+--- 21961283
+>>21953134
+>hey, let's share our favorite quotes or passages
+There's nothing wrong with. this. Your other points are ok. /pol/bait, Chudcels, and /sci/ posters have to be banned and sent back to where they belong /pol/ or reddit.
+--- 21961298
+>>21961270
+>By most accounts, the German Nobel Laurete's novel is a difficult read. At over 700 pages, it is thick, dense, and occasionally a slog.
+
+i don't know anon, what is your opinion
+--- 21961328
+Jason Bryan, on this very board two years ago:
+
+>I won't make a single thread about [The Shitkickers] myself. You can mark my words. I hate Gardner and Waldun and everyone else who forces their mediocre writing with incessant threads as much as you do. My plan is simply to buy ads. If it catches on, it will be because people have seen its merit for themselves. If not, it will quietly fade away and never be seen here again.
+--- 21961337
+>>21961328
+kys
+--- 21961348
+>>21961337
+Take cover! It's the Megacrab!
+--- 21961349
+>>21961337
+seeth, cope, dilate
+--- 21961351
+>>21961328
+Is... is that him?
+
+A man his age writes like pic related?
+--- 21961352
+>>21961348
+holy kek
+--- 21961362
+>>21961351
+To be entirely fair, that's a series of text messages. Them being terribly written is probably the only authentic thing in his "book".
+
+Now, as for the rest of it... mama mia, the proses...
+--- 21961368
+>>21961362
+To be honest you're right; but if I ever wanted to be taken seriously as an author I would never use "uwu" in my novel.
+--- 21961389
+>>21961368
+kys
+--- 21961391
+>>21961362
+lol I haven't seen a single person quote anything beyond the first page
+
+kys
+--- 21961418
+>>21961368
+Well, see now JB here is blazing a new path -- paved with self-pity and strewn with expired redpills -- and turning his back on establishment trifles like grammar, tenses and taste. He's the truth-slinging outlaw of Gastown, the coke dick crusader, the midlife crisis supernova set to swallow all of British Columbia. You come at the king...
+--- 21961429
+>>21961418
+>>21961368
+You guys are total faggots, I'm going to just keep writing but profit off porn while you people struggle to even get 10 readers with your shit books
+
+If you DO get any following, it is because you study what the market wants and needs and you'll write for a market and not for yourself, your writing will be the equivalent of flipping burgers at McDonald's because nothing you do will be from the heart, it will be written for a market for profit and not because you genuinely believe in your work or pour your heart out.
+
+Fuck you all
+--- 21961477
+>>21961429
+Yes Jason; but never call yourself a good author who "is based and redpilled". 
+
+For you'll forever be known as a man who writes about gay sex.
+--- 21961479
+>>21961429
+>my "darn kids these days" talking points and 2016 /pol/ buzzwords are from the heart
+>rest of y'all are just fake fake fake!!!
+How does one get this delusional? You're such a huge pussy Jason. It's like you've got foreskin all over your body. You claim to speak and write for them, but you're an embarrassment to straight white dudes worldwide. Momma not hug you enough? Or too much, perhaps? It's like planet Earth orbits around your massive wounded ego. The only thing that sucks harder than your personality is your sorry excuse for "writing", and no matter how many hissy fits you throw about that objectively settled fact on 4chan your glory days of skeezy rape dungeons are not coming back you saggy old cunt. Pack it in.
+--- 21961482
+>>21961477
+Uh, Shitsisters... our response?
+--- 21961497
+>>21961479
+Did you take your vaccine faggot bitch?
+--- 21961500
+>>21961477
+Wasn't me nigger kike, I'm banned from Goodread since 2013, lifetime ban for saying "50 Shades of Grey is for fat women who wish they could be slutsd"
+
+
+kys
+--- 21961521
+>>21961500
+Jason you're lying and you know it.
+Also happy early birthday!
+--- 21961533
+Hey guys! It's me, Jason Bryan, peddler of gay erotica!
+--- 21961537
+>>21961521
+>jasonjuststopbroplease.png
+you really have to stop jason. you are permanently damaging your reputation for no gain
+--- 21961540
+>>21961521
+kys
+
+Why wouldn't I promote faggotry if I wrote it, retard?
+
+So much easier to sell books about being a tranny or a faggot than a straight white male
+--- 21961543
+>>21961537
+What reputation? Like I give a fuck at all, I am already banned everywhere, I have zero ability to speak online outside of here and YouTube comments
+
+kys
+--- 21961544
+well this thread derailed
+--- 21961547
+>>21961543
+>kys
+you know those words don't mean nothing coming out of your mouth
+--- 21961555
+>>21961544
+yes, because jason here, forgot to take his meds!
+>meds, now jason!!
+--- 21961593
+>>21961544
+You know what's funny, many of the "acdemica" based boards on 4chan have been having these similar threads about how shitty the site has become. Mostly on /lit/, /his/ and /sci/.
+
+Has it really gotten that bad?
+--- 21961601
+>>21961593
+>Has it really gotten that bad?
+yes it has, and I think many of the "people" here are looking for entertainment rather that having an actual thoughtful conversation. 
+
+as the anon said above:
+>Any post with a wojak/pepe
+>Any post about politics
+>Any post about race
+>Any post about culture wars
+>Any post where the OP uses the following "LE X is BAD/GOOD", "What did I/You think of X", "Who was in the wrong here?" "Now that the dust has settled...",
+>Any post about e-celebs
+>Any self-promotion outside of /WG/ because fuck Card, Gardner and Ma
+>Any post on /WG/ that amounts to "Nobody will make it", "You are shit" and other crab bullshit because it's gotten to the point some threads don't have anything posted because of those faggots
+>A general for "showing off": book editions, shelf threads etc.
+--- 21961609
+>>21961593
+kys
+--- 21961612
+>>21961601
+On that remark, I meant to say that most of all the boards here have become worse; not just the academic boards. Is 2023 the worst year for 4chan?
+--- 21961613
+>>21961609
+this >>21961547
+--- 21961614
+>>21961601
+Noooo we can teach them our ways while remaining a free speech website without paywall and accounts based on interests, not using personal information as stakes for not taking a literal shit in the public square or using branded bandanas as 38 inch dildos. I bet the 4chan godis would appreciate that! *trans trans trans trans trans*
+--- 21961621
+>>21961612
+yeah, it very well might be. I also think it will get worse as the time goes by. I'm a web developer and i was thinking that maybe I should create my own site for the discussion of literature, but getting the traffic on that type of site in 2023 is close to impossible
+--- 21961628
+>>21961621
+Will, there's a website called wapchan thats already planning to have a /lit/ board.
+
+link:
+test dot wapchan dot org slash lit slash
+--- 21961634
+>>21961628
+kys
+--- 21961635
+>>21961621
+A chan with different boards depending on the topic at hand (scripture, philosophy, drama, fiction, poetry, nonfiction, etc) would be ideal, but yeah, getting it going would be real tough.
+--- 21961636
+>>21961628
+i will check it out. thanks
+--- 21961640
+>>21952985 (OP)
+Yeah.
+It is easy. Stop shitposting and actually start reading books.
+--- 21961652
+>>21961612
+Eh. Every gen says the one that comes after is worse. Every year anons say 4chan got worse. Does anything really change?
+--- 21961664
+>>21961652
+I mean; if anyone has screenshots of this place before 2016, it'll probably be a completely different environment then it is now.
+--- 21961666
+>>21961111
+Boys should kys boys, and girls should kys girls
+--- 21961669
+>>21961664
+https : // 4chanarchives . com/board/lit/1476
+--- 21961682
+>>21961298
+There are 7 chapters. How about one a week starting on Monday the 8th?
+--- 21961693
+>>21961682
+all right, I'm in
+--- 21961705
+>>21961669
+It's surreal not seeing "nigger" and "tranny" not being repeated in every thread.
+--- 21961718
+>>21961612
+>Is 2023 the worst year for 4chan?
+I would say 2022 was worse simply because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. That event alone killed one of the sites best boards /k/, which has turned into a proxy war for /pol/ and /int/. With the next US presidential election on the horizon we can expect 2023 to become significantly worse though. Hell even /an/ was killed because of reddit catfags post 2016. Lucky /out/ has managed to stay pretty unaffected so thats become my bastion on this dying site.
+--- 21961721
+>>21961664
+As that OG, I can say that's definitely true. But a tipping point was reached many years ago. Maybe even a decade.
+
+My hazy memories of early days /lit/ were how incredibly slow it was (kind of like /trv/ outside of Japan threads). There was much more philosophy and religion talk before /his/ took a bunch of that. We memed Tao Lin, bitched more about whether it was pleb or not to read in translation, discussed more the nature of art and its value. This was probably all over by the time of The Legacy of Totalitarianism in a Tundra. Maybe that was the last gasp.
+--- 21961723
+>>21955029
+>>21957078
+>>21960298
+Difference is that it's now an even lower quality discussion
+
+Blood Meridian thread 8 years ago:
+https ://4chanarchives. com /board/ lit/ thread /7380 990
+--- 21961744
+>>21961721
+nostalgic : (
+--- 21961748
+>>21961744
+>>21961723
+kys faggots
+--- 21961809
+>>21961652
+I started browsing /lit/ during the heyday of accelerationism and cosmotechnics/spacetaoism on /lit/. People were more articulate and erudite, and you could have interesting discussions on even the more obscure thinkers. These days a thread about Kant or Hegel will be 95% /pol/lacks shitposting.
+--- 21961840
+>>21961652
+>Eh. Every gen says the one that comes after is worse.
+If given the choice would you prefer to have been born in 1970 or 2000?
+>Every year anons say 4chan got worse.
+Its really something you just kinda had to be there to understand.
+--- 21961867
+>>21961840
+Anon, I was there in the early years. And I ain't necessarily proud of it. But 4chan hasn't changed much on a macro level. Yeah, /lit/ was better back in the day, yeah /x/ used to be more original, /asp/ was funnier than /pw/, but overall there was stupid, overused meme spam back then and there's cancerous meme spam now. It's just a different flavour.

lit/21953528.txt

@@ -422,9 +422,6 @@ I don't see any of them whipping slaves or beating and raping women.
 Why are they treated like they're doing all of that and more? 
 I think it's just some social media thing and secretly women only want to fuck white men but on the outside they have to pretend they don't or something.
 It's so bizzare.
---- 21957168
->>21957163
-You know who.
 --- 21957172
 21957167
 The war in Ukraine is based because it is another American proxy war against Russia.
@@ -785,3 +782,782 @@ However, I intend my main character, as he changes himself through transformatio
 --- 21957715
 >>21957671
 You don't even know just how relieved I was when I asked what my readers thought of my power level handling and they kept comparing it to shit like Hunter x Hunter and saying they liked how my characters got stronger mostly through new tools rather than brute power
+--- 21958010
+>>21957715
+And whom be these readers of which you speak?
+--- 21958054
+>>21958010
+Probably his mommy made an account and logged in to comment on her special little boy's story so that he doesn't feel bad about himself later when they go pick up chicken nuggies from the golden arches. Good job, son! Your leveling system is marvelous! Just marvelous, Anon!
+>and she prays to God every night that you'll go out and get a real job and move out, but maybe it will take one more comment, one more chicken nuggie.
+--- 21958071
+>>21955106
+I just came up with the b plot and c plots and they are so sad and messy for my protagonist. But I like writing about broken, imperfect people
+--- 21958220
+>>21958071
+> they are so sad and messy for my protagonist.
+constantly giving your protagonist problems is good storytelling
+--- 21958280
+>>21957650
+/lit/ has other litfic writers. One writes short stories but hasnt written a novel yet, one (me) is unpublished and another dropped off the face of the earth.
+--- 21958289
+>>21957650
+Emily project is litfic? I thought it was just a robot sex story
+--- 21958292
+>>21958289
+He's talking about the other story, The Beautiful Kingdom
+--- 21958304
+>>21958292
+Is it any good?
+--- 21958316
+>>21958304
+NTA but I bought it yesterday along with some other stuff. Going on a month long reading diversion to catch up with novels I missed by /lit/. I will still be writing of course.
+--- 21958324
+I'm trying to concieve of what would actually make for good youtube content to build a foundation for advertising my books, but just about everything seems like niche crap that won't get any attention. Who on youtube is actually going to want to listen to some self-pub author talk about Yukio Mishima?
+
+Every single time I go out in public to touch grass as it were, I encounter people who like the idea of reading but don't have the time/energy to actually read.
+
+I'm at a bit of a loss, especially considering I haven't even gotten a foothold here in /wg/
+--- 21958346
+>>21958324
+You're motivation is misplaced if you're in this just for fame. If you're passionate about something then people will naturally flock to you
+--- 21958364
+>>21958346
+It's not about fame it's about making enough money that I don't have to work my day job and can focus on my passion. And people can't flock to me if they've never heard of me.
+
+There's just other things to consider such as; I want to do my own anthology (Yes, like Tales of the Unreal but not with them) but if I don't have a certain level of clout and reach I just won't get enough submissions to actually work with, and I am currently below that level of reach/sales.
+--- 21958376
+>>21958364
+One step at a time. So by all means start a YouTube. Daniel Greene did it and look at him now. Even his book made 100k
+--- 21958426
+>>21958376
+He started his channel to talk about stuff he enjoyed (mainly Wheel of Time). He didn't do it as advertising for his future writing career.
+--- 21958444
+>>21958220
+this story is going to be so good, i can't wait to write it and share it with you guys. the themes are ones that i'm passionate about as well
+--- 21958476
+>>21958426
+That's where you need to start
+--- 21958478
+Spot the difference
+--- 21958492
+>>21955774
+
+Thank you for feed back I'm going to edit sometime this week
+
+>>21956153
+
+Disquieting expression could probably work? Doesn't strike me as despairing but disqueiting could be close for what you're trying to go for
+--- 21958493
+>>21958478
+That's woolston? I thought he was 20-25
+--- 21958495
+Only unreal schlock fags would pay to attend an MFA at the university of florida ahhahahahhaha
+--- 21958511
+>>21958495
+shut the fuck up nobody cares
+--- 21958519
+>>21958426
+Pretty sure that's the point, anon.
+--- 21958532
+>>21958511
+Why are you angry, bud? Enjoy paying $70K a year to listen to mediocre white women explain YA writing to you. But you unreal fags actually need it since your writing is genuinely worse than all YA slop
+--- 21958566
+>>21958495
+>university of florida
+>florida
+>methheads and biblethumpers drinking and driving to the porn shop together
+oof
+--- 21958569
+How badly will I fare on RR if I don't write litRPG or progression or whatever people are calling it now?
+--- 21958576
+>>21958569
+kills me that zoomers have such empty lives that they'll read 1m wordcount poorly written slop in lapslock that makes SAO look like a masterpiece
+--- 21958592
+>>21957400
+Your idea of commercial success is the pipe dream of making billions and being in the top 0.000001% of writers when the fact is that MOST writers make nothing or next to nothing.
+
+R:Trailer trash makes enough for an average person to pay the bills and write for a living, which is already insanely good.
+
+Walk before you can run my dude. Don't discourage people from first getting up on a small stage just because they'll likely never be some A-list super celebrity.
+--- 21958602
+>>21958376
+So if I start posting 20 minute discussion videos on philosophy and pulp fiction are you likely to watch that?
+
+I want to work through a number of study charts that have been put together on here, but theyre not the kinds of works that will get many subscribers
+--- 21958609
+>>21958532
+no i don't know who you're talking about. i'm here to write
+--- 21958615
+>>21956794
+>>21956787
+>>21956758
+2000 words a day is not insane. It is very much possible, but you should not shoot for that every day if it is unresonable for you. I can do 2000 words on a good day, when I already have teh scene roughed out. Then, i can just roll with it. Otherwise, 1000 words a day is great. 
+At teh very least, I do think you should try to write 500 words a day, just to keep up the familiarity. Just do what you can, anon, and don't lie to yourself.
+--- 21958618
+>>21958602
+If you're good at speaking and don't have an obnoxious sounding voice ill watch your videos
+--- 21958628
+>>21956897
+Yeah, my books. 
+Magellan: The Adventures of a Star Seeker. there ya go. They are good.
+--- 21958662
+>>21958576
+The world consists chiefly of the vulgar. If reading, writing, and analysing everything in between for the past several years has taught me anything, it's that the less thought and effort put into something, the more popular it is. There are a few exceptions, but just look at Where the Crawdads Sing or whatever else is "trending" among the masses. Hell, look at the Kindle Unlimited most popular. 
+The bitter truth is that the more passion, soul, and effort you put into a project, the less likely it is to do well, with very rare exceptions. This is NOT the rule. Genre writing, which is all about conforming to expectations and "writing to market", is all about suppressing the urge to write from the soul.
+I envy writers who are able to write from the soul sometimes, but then turn that part of the brain off and become a commercial success. You might consider them literary prostitutes, but in my eyes they're succeeding by playing both sides.
+--- 21958667
+>>21958628
+Not with that shitty cover.
+--- 21958670
+>>21958569
+4 days in and I only got 200 views.
+--- 21958671
+>>21958576
+It's the word count that matters not the quality.
+--- 21958677
+>>21958670
+well done, it took me 4 months to get that ... and they were all search engine bots.
+--- 21958696
+>>21958677
+Hmmm... That might be the case for me too.
+--- 21958703
+>>21958628
+So this... is the power of 2000 words/day
+--- 21958713
+>anon shares his book
+>immediately crabs tear him down
+--- 21958716
+>>21958703
+I don't understand what you wrote.
+--- 21958757
+>>21958569
+Is there another platform that's better suited for this?
+--- 21958781
+>>21958713
+i'm not a crab but in that excerpt alone there's a few things to criticize. however. it comes off bad for an experienced author to tear down someone else. what i will say stands out to me the most is the abuse of passive voice from the very first sentence to the last. generally this is considered bad practice. if you're using 3rd person perspective then just state observations as if they are from the character's pov. it helps to try to get into that character's head and really describe how they feel about their surroundings rather than outright giving a description. if it's dark, how have the character adjusted to the darkness? if they've always been in darkness, how would they know it was "dark"? etc
+--- 21958797
+So this is the power of 2400 daily words!
+--- 21958800
+Since I've noticed my name is getting brought up these past few threads and don't want to eventually just be known as a meme like Gardener...
+
+I'm FortySixtyFour, I write the webfics "AnimeCon Harem" and "RE: Trailer Trash" and make decent income doing so. $4.5k USD a month or thereabouts. Both are genre fictions, and both also focus heavily on subverting their respective genres.
+
+Harem fics are generally known to be wish fulfillment garbage with paper thin characters; I instead went full multiple POV deep dives into the thoughts and perspectives of all the characters involved and focused on fleshing out characters. Do-over fics are generally male lead and focus on taking advantage of future knowledge for personal & financial gain; I went female protag and the story instead focuses on how she misunderstood almost everything she thought she knew and is now given a chance to actually grow up this time.
+
+Both are MODERATELY successful in their respective niches. I'm on the lower end of my Aethon peers in that regard, because I don't really cater to mass appeal progression fantasy, and honestly? I don't write fast at all. Each of my chapters gets written and rewritten and not posted up until I'm satisfied it has the impact I want it to. For perspective, the actual "success" writers in my peer circle generally make 10x what I do or much, much more. Look up Zogarth, Shirtaloon, and Defier. I'm a nobody by comparison, which is fine.
+
+I do strongly advocate for the Royal Road & Patreon model of writing if you're looking to break away from day jobs or et cetera and be able to write full time. You may have to write genre fiction to actually start doing numbers, and that's okay. I have full confidence that you're able to find SOME genre you love enough to be able to write in it. My buddy Traitorman wrote in an old school fantasy Forgotten Realms sort of style, and didn't really become extremely popular until he dissected modern progression fantasy and was able to figure out a project that both fit with the writing he wanted to do and also the market: Mark of the Fool.
+
+To those of you looking towards the current big moneymakers on RR (LitRPG) and thinking about making a quick buck, I'd say don't even try. You'd be trying to start a race when others have laps and laps on you, and reader market is going to just stick with the frontrunners because they're already nine books ahead of you in content. Also, most of you despise LitRPG, and your disdain for whatever given genre you try to write in almost always bleeds into the work when you force yourself to write what's popular.
+
+(1/2)
+--- 21958802
+>>21958800
+What can you do, then? In my opinion (obviously, my own fics follow this model) genre fusion and genre subversion is what the serials market is salivating for, and where you'll manage to find a niche you love to write that also brings in money. Take any basic genre that has major weak points and just surprise readers by instead turning those into strengths. Beware of Chicken shot to popularity on RR because it took the least humane genre of chinese serial fic and redecorated every narrative with empathetic cozy slice of life. Magical Girl Gunslinger took the lesser used MG genre and wrote top tier tragic pity-porn out of it.
+
+Tldr; this has been my random morning rant. Hope you guys have productive writing day today.
+
+(2/2)
+--- 21958841
+>>21958800
+I've been meaning to ask you: do you have a day job? How many hours of writing per day do you do (and of course, how many words/day?). How about before you got big?
+
+I have a couple of ideas that I know could be big (exactly the kind of genre blending you're talking about) but I don't have the time to be writing 10K words per week or whatever. And my day job is already mentally exhausting (I'm a scientific researcher).
+--- 21958862
+>>21958797
+>Her erection.
+What? Giant clit or tranny? I think there could be a better word for it. Erection as a word is far too masculine
+--- 21958895
+>>21958841
+>>21958841
+I quit my day job (hot knife operator at a production plant that makes high end linesman safety harnesses) some four or five years ago. It was a bit of a leap of faith, because at the time I think my Patreon was only pulling in $300 - $600 or so. Just, working there I was getting too tired to write when I got home, and it felt like I needed to decide to either write my stories now or never write them at all. So, ditched the car and phone and moved into the sketchy trailer park in town where lot rent was dirt cheap. Bit of a cautionary tale as I'm still here in the sketchy trailer park, but--fuck it, I am actually working on my own dreams instead of someone else's.
+
+Can't speak for everyone as towards writing process, but almost no time at all is spent typing out the actual draft. Almost all of my time IS spent running through story plans in my head and thinking about what I want to do. Which story choice is the most interesting one to pursue, simulating conversations between characters over and over and over from various POV to discover interesting thoughts or connections or misconceptions a character might have. Planning out the juggle of subplots so that a "ball" is always in the air and even slow chapters are advancing some threads in ways and satisfying to read. Lots of research. Sooo much fucking research. My do over fic is set in the late nineties so I'm constantly hunting through for gems that will nostalgia hook those who lived through the times and (hopefully) be fascinating for younger readers who did not experience them.
+--- 21958921
+>>21958895
+Thanks for the reply. Sadly, I (no longer) have the luxury of just escaping into hermitage. I have a wife and a newborn kid that I need to take care of. It's disappointing to hear that you basically have to turn it into a full time job to make it work, but not necessarily surprising. Ah well, maybe in another life.
+--- 21958969
+>>21958800
+>>21958802
+Good post. I've been considering going the RR route more and more with my YA urban fantasy novel as I have to deal with the arbitrary bullshit of traditional publishing. Cutting words to fit 100K, switching age demographics because male protagonists don't fit YA anymore, and etc. I'll probably still give it an honest try just so I don't have any regrets, but taking control of your own career and destiny is becoming increasingly appealing.
+
+Looking into RR though, I was a bit worried hearing readers on there didn't like multiple POVs, which my story also has, so seeing how well you're doing with that is reassuring. Counting the first book and the sequel I'm 2/3 of the way through, I've got a nice backlog of 200,000+ words. I've heard all sorts of different opinions on post frequency. Can I ask how many chapters/words you typically publish per story on there each week?
+--- 21958984
+>>21958800
+>>21958802
+Thanks for the posts. Could you please elaborate on:
+
+> until he dissected modern progression fantasy and was able to figure out a project that both fit with the writing he wanted to do and also the market
+
+I very much enjoy writing and have considered putting out some form of serial genre fiction to get my skills up and ideally make a bit of cash. What does the market want beyond regular updates?
+--- 21959016
+>>21958862
+His mother had a penis and killed him while he was shitting himself, that's plenty masculine
+--- 21959021
+>>21958969
+My works are probably a case study on what not to do in regards to post frequency. My popular one gets posted once every other month or so, my less popular one regularly has long, long six month to several year hiatuses from posting.
+
+Post frequency will depend greatly on your individual style of writing and also what list you hope to aim for. If you're aiming at PtW (Popular this Week) you're going to want as many minimum length posts as possible to game viewcount. So, in that case you'd want to take whatever chapters you have and split them up into 1k word or less subsections for posting. I tend to aim only at BR (Best Rated) as I write niche fiction, so my ONLY concern is that each chapter is a self contained satisfying experience to read that will also make them want more.
+
+There's also the consideration of whether or not you even want to aim towards mass appeal--which in my eyes on RR is trying to ride a tiger. Mass appeal can do mass numbers, or it can just endlessly frustrate you with shortfalls from any number of other factors that come into play. Both of my fics more or less clarify that they are NOT catered towards mass appeal and advertise themselves in their niches. To secure high ratings and game BR rankings, you want the people who aren't your specific audience (and would give you low scores) to never feel like clicking on your fic to check it out at all. This is also why fanfiction works keep creeping up the BR list--readers not interested in whatever it's a fanfic of won't even click on it, preserving the project from the scathing gauntlet of half star ratings.
+
+Whatever you wind up doing, the RR lists are your absolute best bet at discoverability and gaining a decent following. You can also network like crazy and try getting shoutouts from other bigger authors on their chapter posts, but (to me) that's a ton of work for incredibly variable returns. Brigading reviews also can help quite a bit if you have enough friends or followers to pull it off; when my buddy Vowron's new fic was just coming up I made sure to write a killer review and then got everyone to upthumb it to front page Top Reviews, where it remained for a couple weeks.
+
+Any front page RR real estate is incredibly valuable to getting readers to click through to your work.
+
+New fictions should focus on targeting the Rising Stars list, as that's the who's who of upcoming gems. You can sit on RS for a month or so, and then if your efforts there don't give you several thousand followers or drop you directly onto BR or PtW lists, you may have a lot of struggle ahead of you climbing further.
+--- 21959032
+>>21958862
+skinspy
+coomer shapeshifters that can be detected by the fact they always have a cock somewhere no matter what form they take
+--- 21959051
+>>21958984
+Beyond regular updates? You have to know what your target audience needs, which may not be what they want (or think they want).
+
+The current generation of readers have really, really shitty lives. Most are priced out of ever owning their own home, many are in debt, most are either wary of initiating a first relationship, or jaded from relationships blowing up in their face.
+
+Progression fantasy is making so much money right now as a genre because the current modern generation of readers feels like they are stuck and getting absolutely nowhere with their lives. It can be very easy to cater towards that with what you write to pull in big numbers right away.
+
+You may have to sugarcoat some of the things readers need with what they think they want to get them to first click, though.
+
+My AnimeCon Harem fic appears to promise simple sex and instead delivers meaningful relationships. When first planning the story I constructed each girl around a different relationship theme; challenge, planning, opportunity, effort, loyalty, and compromise and even explored the pros and cons of each as best I was able to from my own experiences.
+
+My do over fic appears to promise the protagonist WOWING people with her future knowledge and ideas, but actually just delivers catharsis from family / formative issues and healing from childhood traumas.
+--- 21959062
+>>21953644
+I only write fetish stories and I need a really boner inducing set-up to get my creative juices going.
+--- 21959069
+>>21958862
+his mother got killed and replaced by a skinspy. she was fucking him before that though
+--- 21959077
+>>21957302
+Get out of here, Dazzle, you are not even meta anymore.
+--- 21959124
+>>21958895
+>Almost all of my time IS spent running through story plans in my head and thinking about what I want to do. Which story choice is the most interesting one to pursue, simulating conversations between characters over and over and over from various POV to discover interesting thoughts or connections or misconceptions a character might have.
+I do this.
+I spend most of my day NOT writing, and instead I put myself into my story mentally and think about how certain conversations are going to go and how that is going to affect the story.
+Then, at around 11 at night I actually start writing. Last night I ended up not doing the chapter that I planned to write, because another idea caught my fancy and it doesn't actually stop me from doing that other chapter still.
+--- 21959129
+>>21958592
+I use the examples of extremes here because it’s an easy way to illustrate/explain to others the current state of the industry. 
+
+Sitting down and explaining the self-pub scam, or how webnovlization is a different medium to that of traditional publishing, or even how the current industry is set up is something most don’t really care to hear about. Besides it’s long form and would take several posts, of which my fingers would rebel against me. 
+On top of this, many writers have a romanticized view of writing, authorship and publishing. And many don’t do the research necessary to break said views, and instead fall for the pipe dreams like self-publishing. The amount of people calling me a fucking Jew, and how they are gonna be a big self pub start us evidence of this desu.
+
+By showing the highest levels of success one can achieve, it paints a good idea of what is generally something you should be working towards, short hand of course.
+
+But I do agree that walking before running is always important. It’s why I’m constantly screeching about short story writing, chapbooks and other such endeavours to people who want to write the next American novel. It’s also why I preach setting up a fan base, or a community of interested individuals before doing major as well. It’s also why I say don’t quit your day job. 
+
+Because the reality is, as you said, most will never make enough to live off their writing. Even prettier, those who make money from Patreon/online self-publishing content, often still have a day job. They just hide it since success breeds success. It’s a pipe dream to say you’d make enough from online content, just as it’s a pipe dream to become the next American author. But I’d argue the latter has a better chance than the former. 
+
+But again, I do agree, drawl before you can run.
+--- 21959152
+>>21959124
+That's still writing, to me. Mentally getting it all together, figuring everything out, perfecting whatever certain phrasings you want to use, and then the act of actually sitting down to type it out is just the busywork of putting it into words, not really WRITING.
+--- 21959161
+>>21959032
+>>21959016
+The fuck?
+--- 21959167
+>>21959129
+I love how you tried to use 50 shades as an example of the publishing industry taking chances on things, when it was already a huge success at that point - which was the only reason they even knew about it and why they came crawling to her with pallets of cash. Same with Hoover, who self pubbed several very successful books first, which caused them to come to her on bended knee. And that was a decade plus ago.
+
+Ease of distribution, the only advantage trad publishing historically has had, has only become easier and easier in the meantime. I'd imagine the pandemic accelerated that trend even further.
+--- 21959174
+So I showed a good friend of mine my book so far and he told me my Protag is an obnoxious asshole (Also said it was a self-insert) which kinda stung but I could see where he was coming from. 
+
+I've been mulling over what he was telling me about how readers will likely put it down before they get to the point where he starts to change for the better or grow as a person throughout the book.
+On one hand I could completely re-work his character and take the book into another direction but on the other I kind of want to finish where I'm going with this original version. 
+Admittedly It's only 7 chapters along and I could definitely start over without much trouble but I'd like to get some opinions about it.
+In hindsight it seems like he's absolutely right in that a protagonist who is easily hated is not popular.
+He also said my writing is boring and lacks engagement. I'm totally fine agreeing with him on that because I literally just started.
+
+What would be the sensible thing to do? Do I go ahead and start over or would it be better to keep going if nothing else just for the practice of finishing a book?
+--- 21959175
+>>21959152
+Right, and I agree, but I know I've seen people post here about how they sit down for hours and barely write anything, which makes them feel like they've failed. 
+I think people get caught up in the physical act of putting words on the screen, and not enough on the process.
+--- 21959184
+>>21959174
+>my protag is an obnoxious asshole
+make bad things happen to him whenever he's an asshole as a bit of retributive karma
+--- 21959187
+>>21959175
+In my writing circles I've found there's a surprising divide between writers and storytellers. There's a lot of talented people with writing degrees and nothing particularly interesting to explore as they don't really have other life experience, and then there's storytellers who did everything else with their write and have great yarns to share if you can only work your way through godawful prose to figure it out.
+--- 21959197
+>>21959184
+Oh yeah he definitely gets fucked over because of his shitty behavior. My friend's argument was that it didn't matter and that him being so unlikeable is a huge turn off.
+
+I'd like to post and get feedback on what people think, but I don't think a lot of folks in these threads bother to actually read longer than a few sentences for the most part.
+
+It kinda irks me how I've yet to get comments on my RR page. I want people to tell me how I'm fucking up. There's no better time for it than now imo since I'm still trying to develop my style of writing. I'm still very incomplete as far as writing goes.
+--- 21959205
+>>21959129
+>It’s also why I preach setting up a fan base, or a community of interested individuals before doing major as well.
+Oh my god. Pic related is you >>21956411
+It's literally describing you. What a farce. What a clown.
+--- 21959206
+>>21959174
+Add side characters who are more likeable, but they stick with protag due to share history or they're forced to or something. Make it clear you understand the protag is an asshole by having other characters call him out on it. Maybe have him be introspective and call himself out on it, but he struggles with changing for whatever reason.
+--- 21959215
+>>21959197
+maybe try and make his asshole behavior funnier
+>no one leaves comments on my writing
+>no I will not link my RR page
+--- 21959219
+>>21959206
+See this kind of point is exactly what's making me lean towards just going ahead and keeping him the way he is right now.
+If I just finish this story I'll have a better chances at getting true feedback since people will be able to look at the bigger picture and decide on if he truly redeems himself and if his suffering was warranted or not. 
+
+My friend told me that I'm better off starting over again but I'm hopeful that there will be readers who will be interested in seeing where his choices take him in the end.
+
+I guess I'll keep at it then. Once I have the book finished I might get that feedback I'm so looking forward to.
+--- 21959224
+>>21959174
+Your character should be an asshole for reasons, just make them interesting reasons.
+--- 21959234
+>>21958895
+>>21959124
+Same. Almost everything I write is the culmination of obsessive thoughts I cannot stop. It's why I started writing in the first place.
+--- 21959247
+>>21959167
+>Hoover
+Oh your the obsessed shit heel who’s seething about not being published.
+
+If you want me to illiterate why your retarded, the fifty shades example was made for a specific reason. It’s wasn’t fifty shades when it “found success” online. It was a twilight fan fiction, using trademarked characters that would have gotten her sued thirty times over the more success it had found.
+
+The reason it’s often considered to be an example of publishers taking chances is because she had to chance the core fundamentals of her book. Edward had to become mr. gray. Bella to what’s her face. The setting and the main plot had a reform from vampires and bdsm to an rich bitch office man and bdsm. I know to your pea brain that doesn’t seem like a big change, but it was a massive one. Especially if you looked through her comments at the time, which all loved and adored the fact that it was a fanfic, and that it was about Edward and Bella. 
+
+
+On top of this, fanfiction in general is horrid, and never usually finds commercial success. Fanfic authors have a ton of writing problems that they never grow out of because they sit on established cannon. Not to mention contracts and legal which has to be dealt with.
+
+Your an outsider looking in thinking he’s got the full picture. That it obviously wasn’t an industry taking chance, but it most certainly was. Everyone in the industry knows this. And it paid off. But since you need to be spoken to like a child, what about the hunger games? What about Harry Potter? What about gentleman bastards? What about Percy Jackson? Etc etc etc. All of which got popular, from someone taking a chance. 
+
+Once again. Hoover fucking who?
+
+To further nail your ass to the coffin lid, trad publishing has a ton of advantages that you’re missing. Mostly because you don’t do your research, but the best part to me is that you advocate for this idea that ease of access has made it easier for people to be published and find success. And that’s true, but it’s done something you don’t even realize. It’s created such a wide fucking pool, that your totally, utterly, irrelevant. 80% of people think they have a story to tell. Imagine a football field for me, and now imagine that’s 80% filled. That’s your competition. You think you beat out 80% of them? You think your work is the cream of the crop? Not even close. 
+So how do you differentiate your self? How do you make people see you? Your a malding authors blaming the Jews, how do you find your audience? And how you retain your audience when thousands upon thousands wish to pull their attention. 
+
+To give an example, in a different industry, the collapse of the live service model in video games is imminent. Every game now can be live service now, and every game vies for your attention. It demands you play their battle pass, their new event, their best ever season yet. But, an audience, can only devot so much fucking time and attention. Why should I pay you mine?
+--- 21959258
+>>21959197
+Give him a redeeming quality, just a little. Raskolnikov in C&P cared a lot about his family, and other moments of compassion which gave readers hope he could become a better person. I had a friend, a really nice one, tell me Rodion was "sweet." You dont have to do the same thing but throwing anything out there can make a protagonist a little less insufferable, yet still deserving of retribution.
+--- 21959268
+>>21959247
+>If you want me to illiterate why your retarded, the fifty shades example was made for a specific reason. It’s wasn’t fifty shades when it “found success” online. It was a twilight fan fiction, using trademarked characters that would have gotten her sued thirty times over the more success it had found.
+And she made all those changes prior to self publication. You absolute clown.
+>Hoover fucking who?
+You've got to be shitting me. Colleen Hoover. The number one best selling author of 2022, and probably prior years.
+--- 21959275
+>>21959258
+Okay give me your opinion on this.
+The protagonist has parents who kept the truth about why his best friend stopped talking to him.
+He doesn't know and just thinks it must have been because he was too unlikeable so he becomes outwardly anti-social. 
+The truth is that his best friend died, and his parents kept the truth from him since they were the ones who caught the phone call from the family of the deceased friend. 
+They think their son will not take it well and conclude that keeping him in the dark is "safer" than letting him experience the heavy grief and heartbreak that comes with such a thing.
+It comes back to bite them in the ass when their son loses all drive and motivation and pushes people away because he feels like any friend he makes will do the same to him and hurt him that way.
+Is this good enough justification to later redeem him when his parents are forced to reveal the truth to him near the end after he overcomes the hardship that the story entails?
+--- 21959277
+>>21959205
+>I don’t know anything about my chosen industry 
+>I don’t know anything about my wanna be career
+ >fuck I don’t even know how to write
+ >hey why am I not published? Why am I not seen? Why am I not heard? I’m good! I’m good! 
+>hmm.
+>must be the Jews! Must be the traditionalists! Must be! Must be! I’m not bad or a fucking idiot! 
+
+My fucking Cheeto covered pigfucker, if you think you can do it all, why don’t you? Why aren’t you popular? Why aren’t you successful? It’s so easy, right? Give me the answers I so desperately seek. 
+
+Because in all my time, and in all my years being here, I’ve read only about 3 things I’d ever think would get published. Three things that actually don’t consist of the most basal shit, that’s past a third grade reading level. I’ve tried to help said three. I’m still in touch with one.
+
+Everyone else here. Everyone who’s got big bright and amazing ideas…they all fade. They all become irrelevant. I’ve been told I’ll become irrelevant for the last seven years. And ever year, I watch as you all do. As you all fade into nothing.
+
+So if it’s so easy. If you can do it on your own. Show me your work anon. Speak up.
+--- 21959284
+>>21959275
+Only if he genuinely seems to start growing past being such a shitty person after discovering the truth.
+--- 21959286
+maybe i'm alone in this but i don't care who's a new york times bestseller. my writing will never speak to everyone. i want to find what i find interesting and fun.
+--- 21959288
+>>21959247
+NTA but I feel you on live service games. I just wanted to play really short 15 min a day games, I can go on hours of adventures and grindy ass dailies as a result. I am this close to dropping my sidegame.
+--- 21959289
+>>21959284
+Thanks I'm convinced in my story going forward.
+I'll likely still need to touch up how obnoxious he is at the start but I definitely plan on this.
+--- 21959293
+>>21959268
+Keep ignoring everything I post to transfix one the one thing you think is right.m
+--- 21959298
+>>21959286
+*write what i find
+--- 21959300
+>>21959286
+Good mentality. Keep your chin up.
+--- 21959301
+>>21959286
+And guess what
+There is absolutely fucking nothing wrong with that.
+Just because fifty shades of shit is popular with single mothers doesn't mean It will be to me.
+Women unfortunately dominate this industry at the moment, but there are decent reads if you put in the effort to look for what you're interested in.
+--- 21959309
+>>21959293
+>Hoover fucking who?
+Retard. You claim you're in the industry? You absolute retard no one should take anything say seriously ever. The sad thing is I genuinely believe you are in the industry, but your day consists of fetching uncle Maury coffee and getting outraged on twitter.
+--- 21959313
+I take comfort in knowing that even if my preferred and most loved style of prose—the so-called antiquated style of Gothic, there will still be enough people in the world who yet like such works, and would be willing to pay for it, so that it still stands a goodly chance for publishing.
+--- 21959317
+>>21959309
+Irrelevant. Keep cry at me because your work is meaningless. You won’t acknowledge anything outside your tiny insignificant points. 
+
+So why aren’t you successful anon, if you are so right. When are you going to replace me?
+--- 21959326
+>Be interested in Werewolves
+>Start reading Nightshade series
+>Get past the first book
+>Start the 2nd
+>Can't even get past the first 3 chapters, it's too fucking cringe.
+>Somehow this shit got multiple books despite being so dogshit.
+
+You know, on one hand I can appreciate women writers and how abysmal in the way of talent the majority are, but if this is how low the bar is set I struggle to picture how me can't pick up the slack and make better series to this.
+Why don't men write paranormal romance more? Women have set the bar so fucking low, dude.
+--- 21959330
+>>21959326
+It's just modern women desu. Bronte sisters and Austen are still pretty good.
+--- 21959334
+>>21959275
+It could. Does anyone else care about him besides his parents and why? If someone likes him, even if protag doesnt realize it, it reflects well that he isnt completely selfish, just myopic. Because someone values something in him. And the drama about him not knowing I dont think is going to affect how readers view him, but dramatic irony can affect the suspense they feel waiting for him to find out, to see if his selfworth and estimation of others changes. But some readers may be so offput by that childish reaction to the disappearance of a friend that they wont like him unless there's another reason to.
+--- 21959338
+>>21959317
+Bruh no one knows who the fuck you even are or what you write. We just assume you're LARPing as an industry insider in an attempt to validate random hot takes you throw around. So; who the fuck are you and why should anyone care?
+--- 21959362
+>>21959313
+I love Gothic, anon, share an excerpt.
+--- 21959386
+>>21957415
+>>21957475
+This is already happening in the western webficsphere. Fics currently adapting into comics include:
+
+Paranoid Mage
+Primal Hunter
+Practical Guide to Evil
+RE: Trailer Trash
+Salvos
+RE: Monarch
+Mark of the Fool
+Shattered System
+--- 21959396
+>>21959386
+Primal hunter fucking sucks.
+--- 21959408
+>>21959277
+Okay but Jews are actually a problem.
+Look at whose hands touch money going through the system.
+Look at who owns fucking hollywood, banks, the news, and the biggest corporations.
+It's not a coincidence, dude.
+It sounds absurd yeah but you don't get kicked out of over 100 countries in the past for no reason. 
+Jews have been asking for genocide from the beginning. They're the real schizophrenics. No other people are as neurotic and outright malicious or vindictive than Jews. Look at how much they hate Whites. They literally spread anti-white propaganda and try to promote minorities in a fake positive light when all they really care is that they bring down the value of labor by opening borders and destroying national identity because that way they ensure the least possibility of revolt.
+A united people is the bane of the Jew. 
+Everyone knows this.
+They can only control a country that is divided, and what better way to divide than by introducing multiculturalism with a dash of racist propaganda to take away from the blatant classism that's actually happening.
+I have no political party, by the way. I'm just calling it like I see it.
+--- 21959411
+>>21959396
+
+Damn, someone should've said so way earlier so that I'd know not to have pleb taste and enjoy reading it. My copies of volumes four and five just got here today. While you're at it, hurry and tell his massive readerbase that it sucks, so they know better then to give him forty thousand dollars every month on Patreon, probably as much or more all over again via Kindle Unlimited.
+
+Hurry bro, they're all counting on you to save them from themselves!
+--- 21959415
+>>21959338
+shut the fuck up, fruitnut. the point of an anon forum is being anon. stop asking for selfdox. stop asking to pyw. fuck off
+--- 21959423
+>>21959051
+>>21959021
+>>21958895
+>>21958802
+>>21958800
+First i want to thank you for having the balls to associate with this maladjusted online knitting circle, your thoughts on RR and the state of the market. 
+
+Secondly all those words, big oof.
+
+Thirdly all that you've written only serves to confirm what I already believe; if you wanna in any way 'make it' you have to work at it and cater to the wants of others. I mean I write lit-rpg and really enjoy elements of the genre but:
+a) I don't like people. 
+b) I can't be fucked to put in marketing effort and polly anna/self shill.
+c) I don't need the money generated from writing feelgood filler schlock and pandering to existentially vapid zoomers.
+
+So thanks again for your formidable info dumps and the courage to claim membership here. p.s. I would read your shit but i fucking hate harem and time loops.
+--- 21959428
+>>21959411
+What are you even trying to say here? That his series' popularity is somehow proof that his work hasn't nose-dived in quality? It definitely has. I dropped this shit after the treasure hunt.
+God damn that sucked ass. Way too many ass-pulls.
+His entire character is somehow this overpowered persona and it gets old.
+The conversations with some of the characters are also at times really tiresome. I get it though he has to make a lot of content so he's gotta let some shit slip through the cracks, but it's literally quantity over quality.
+--- 21959435
+>>21959411
+Book 5 just felt wrong to me from the beginning.
+His entire fucking intro about how he's going to make at least 5 more books and probably more felt super arrogant and didn't help me get through the rest of the book.
+I started to look at the content with more scrutiny and it didn't help to keep me invested.
+--- 21959440
+>>21959411
+It's ok i'll just sit in my own home and continue to masturbate and play video games while they burn down rome.
+--- 21959444
+>>21959440
+As if you wouldn't be doing this any other day of the week.
+--- 21959448
+>>21959411
+I really don't understand how people can read this stuff, let alone purchase it with their hard earned wages, beyond their teenage years--especially when its competing with television, movies and video games, of which it is a poor and blatant imitation.
+--- 21959458
+>>21959448
+Fantasy shit pulls in big numbers.
+It doesn't even have to be good, most of the readers have low standards as long as they find it interesting. 
+Can't fault them, I mean that shit does sell but that doesn't mean it's "good". It's just popular.
+--- 21959466
+>>21959423
+No worries, man. I feel like there needs to be a balance between writing what you want to write and writing what readers want to read, and many are lucky to be able to find a fiction to write on that axis that they can enjoy writing and will bring in income.
+
+Lot of this community here tends to look down on RR as anime writing, but RR exists more as a middle ground between indie pub and ScribbleHub, which the actual western anime writing can be found if you're into that. I worry about some of you guys because I have a lot of IRL writer friends who eschew any online communities and persist in writing their own "greatest story never read," then they'll inevitably self pub and sell either zero copies or three copies because they told their family about it.
+
+Royal Road can admittedly be a real trash community sometimes, on both the reader side and the newbie author side. I do think it's extremely valuable in honing your writing on, finding out what works and what doesn't work in your own particular style, tempering yourself to legitimate criticisms and being able to brush off meaningless snubs. All of these are valuable on the path towards success with your writing.
+--- 21959478
+>>21959440
+Unfathomably based
+--- 21959537
+>>21959458
+
+Surely you have some objective standards you're using to determine this and not just your own personal taste right anon?
+--- 21959558
+>>21959386
+Insane how big litrpgs got. But I also think the boat sailed for this. Maybe they can make it as a tv show, but bookwise I think it's over.
+--- 21959563
+>>21959362
+I shall warn you that I have not done any editing, for I have not been writing as much as I should have, and that it will be very amateur but here is an excerpt:
+
+>I once bought a quaint jester doll at an old, dust antique shop. It was a very marvelous, simple thing of felt and porcelain. Made in the Victorian style, with tarnished sepia-hued motley and aged yet unfaded paint on its smooth, porcelain surface; and with its low price of 23 dollars, I was impelled to purchase it. When, outside of the antique shop, I shook it in hopes of hearing the tiny, wonderfully crafted bells that drooped down from the ends of its hat—I was greatly disappointed by the lack of any sort of sound save for the muffled and awfully dreary noise of hollow metal against fabric. None of the three bells jingled and I immediately began to regret my purchase. But I could not return it—No! No matter the return policy nor the guaranteed refund, I could never return it; for it would be very awkward to return something not even a minute after having purchase it.
+
+>Still, I was very satisfied—Indeed! for it was a superbly crafted thing: it was beautiful in a manner beyond any aspect of its physical composition. Its giddy thin red line of a mouth, the glittering glass beads it had for eyes, its strange sepia-toned motley, and its size and contours were all delightfully wholesome in spite of its grim countenance. I marveled at the fine, almost-invisible seams that lined its felt body, and under the moody shadows cast by the nearby trees under the setting sun; it seemed to marvel back at me.
+
+(1/2)
+--- 21959565
+>>21959563
+>I set it on my desk on an improvised throne—a small porcelain box, and went about doing all of my necessary rituals before sleep with a slight feverishness, so glad was I at my wondrous acquisition. The jester doll sat, watching with its blue glass eyes as I went about my daily habits, and its strange gaze seemed to remain in me even as I retired for sleep. I was glad that its sole focus frmaimed on me. Glad I was—very glad! For could it not see how tenderly, how lovingly I went about the care of all my curios? Could it not see how delicately I handled the old timepiece as I wiped it down so gentle, with such a fine cloth? How steady my hands were as I stitched close a tear in the arm of a doll fifty years its senior, how carefully I dusted the yellowed ivory lids of the small reliquaries I had so diligently collected? Though sleep did not come as easily as it had before the acquisition of the jester doll, my sleep was better than it had ever been.
+
+>Then in the midst of my dreamless slumber I awoke. My brain buzzed with a haze of confusion, my limbs and eyeslids locked in place as if with adamantine chains; I searched wantonly about my room for any wretched thing so! Yet under that daze—fully aware yet not entirely cognizant; my frenzied eyes then fell upon the jester doll. From its small porcelain throne, under that material and mental shadow that had overtaken me, it ruled the darkness—a nightmare king. A mild whismy had come and nestled into my wild thoughts and festered into nightmare.
+
+>The once familiar shadows of my room distorted; bleding and fading into stranger shapes and smearing ever more into the unfamiliar. This bizarre corruption spared nothing in my room—nothing! save the doll. Its shape had never changed, nor was it ever a shadow; it glowed with a lambent coruscation, an odd, unwholesome kind of light that illuminated its once endearing features into fearsome aspects of new, hideous vistas of wrongness. Its venerable age was all the more apparent under that faint glow, and despite lacking any worn or moth-eaten holes or stains or any otjer sign of deterioration and decay; the jester doll seemed a vast and terrible remnant of a thing drawn up from the dark, ceaseless abysms of time, of that near-distant yet almost entirely mysterious truth; from the once-living present it was fashioned during—to now risen as the undead past in all of its sheer, yawning horror!
+
+>My terror—yes! terror had grown nearly uncontrollable, made wilder by my equally as unbearable awe. At the precipice of that climax, my heart near silent in its limitless drumming, my brain and soul near spiralling away from my flesh and heart to lands distant and unreal; the jester doll spoke.
+
+(2/2)
+--- 21959580
+>>21959563
+>>21959565
+You really like Poe don't you?
+--- 21959603
+>>21959537
+I literally said it comes down to taste, you illiterate faggot.
+Some people like the taste of shit, you know. 
+I'm not shitting on them, even if they would like me to.
+--- 21959622
+>>21959580
+Why yes, yes I do.
+--- 21959643
+>>21959622
+You might enjoy the following anthology: https://www.amazon.com/American-Gothic-Tales-William-Abrahams/dp/0452274893
+
+(Many of the stories are in the public domain, so you can just glance at the toc).
+--- 21959658
+>>21959563
+>>21959565
+I appreciate the indulgence of your prose, Poeanon. I always feel tempted to put the "—No!" in my own writing, but then end up deleting it, resulting in a weird, watered-down writing style that wants to be Gothic but isn't allowed to be. Keep doing your thing Gothic bro, we need to find out what the jester doll says.
+--- 21959671
+>>21959565
+I like it. How does it look when you break the paragraphs up by verses?
+--- 21959727
+>>21955777
+>Joyce branching
+Madly wrote the anon, scribbling, his homework.
+>Milton Branching
+His homework the anon scribbling mad wrote
+--- 21959774
+>>21955777
+I believe the technical term for 'mid branching' is an Appositive, but I like that anon's framing of sentence structure regardless.
+--- 21959949
+>>21959275
+You're a shit writer. Kill yourself. Nobody is ever going to read your shit.
+--- 21959950
+A friend of mine said that using the impact font for my book is fucking retarded. I told him he’s being an asshole. The font inherently makes things more exciting. Who is right?
+--- 21959984
+>>21959950
+Do you have any idea how dark a page looks with the impact font? And how square everything looks? It almost more offensive to read an entire novel in Impact than it is to read one in full upper-case.
+--- 21960381
+>>21959466
+True, it really does come down to the level of compromise your willing to make for attention and money. Don't get me wrong, i publish my shit for free and surprisingly have more then one total stranger willing to see my story through to its tragic end. Also i have financially supported multiple authors on there from time to time.
+
+Yet despite all that. Based off my interactions with the community and having perused at great depth the offerings of other authors on the site. i can unequivocally say that i in no way want to be successful there.
+--- 21960387
+>>21959565
+Your work is banal and shit. I fell asleep reading it.
+
+Kill yourself. You will never be a writer.
+--- 21960437
+Just set up a literal chekov's chessboard
+
+Yes it's on the nose but it's still really satisfying
+--- 21960440
+>>21959174
+You will never make it as a writer. You are total shit.
+
+Kill yourself.
+--- 21960442
+>>21958800
+So basically you write shlop?
+
+Kill yourself, fucking hack loser.
+--- 21960458
+>>21960442
+no u
+--- 21960459
+at least try to make it not glaringly obvious that you're baiting for replies
+--- 21960507
+>>21960387
+>>21960440
+>>21960442
+Crustacean detected.
+--- 21960508
+>>21959565
+>>21959563
+Any more ejaculations and it would feel like a Ren Aizawa video.
+
+You have the rhythm down -- it's neat! -- but what you need, if Poe be your preceptor (the style's addictive), is a hook weirder than 'nice thing turns creepy': some hint from the very start of the fatal passion or hubristic flaw or lurking obsession that will send the narrator spiralling into the pit.
+
+Like: man is always fascinated by dolls, but can never find the perfect one to suit his exacting taste. Then one day, entering by chance an old antique shop, barely can he steady his trembling aesthete's hands as he reaches for...
+
+Or: man explains to friend his arcane theory about the eyes of inanimate faces. Then one day, entering by chance an old antique shop, he cannot rid himself of the sense of a strange intelligence staring back from deep within...
+
+Or: man has terrifying, vivid memory of encountering a RenFair jester in his childhood. Then one day, entering by chance an old antique shop, whose countenance does he see in grotesque miniature but that of...
+--- 21960535
+I love how millennials works are always bleak and edgy deconstructions of works aimed at children or flavour of the month political propaganda. It's never about parenthood, philosophy or the daily life is it?
+It's almost like a clueless manchild's idea of a mature work. But of course it's definitely not that.
+--- 21960537
+>>21958280
+So we still have one litfic written.
+--- 21960552
+What is your opinion on chapters/passages where the POV switches from one character to another?
+--- 21960559
+>>21960535
+No shit, Sherlock. How do expect people that have never experienced those things to write anything about it?
+--- 21960574
+>>21960535
+>It's never about parenthood, philosophy or the daily life is it?
+You don't have to invent judgements about the things you don't read just for the sake of sounding knowing and authoritative. Take a casual glance over the Granta new fiction page sometime. Check out Molly Dektar's story 'Il Castello dei Mann', published last month on n+1. Check out Claire Lousie Bennett's Pond. Or check out the archetypal, hyped-to-high-heaven millenial writers like Sally Rooney and Otessa Mosfegh and Tao Lin, and see whether either edgy deconstruction or political propaganda is an apt descriptor of their work.
+--- 21960576
+>>21960535
+Burger anon is writing a story about the daily life of 5 kids.
+--- 21960578
+>>21960535
+>people too poor to live a hallmark lifescript lifestyle don't end up writing about it
+no shit you xoomer fuckstain
+THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THAT WAY
+--- 21960584
+>>21960574
+>Sally Rooney and Otessa Mosfegh
+they're both dogshit
+i wish i could kill them
+--- 21960592
+wilbur awoke to an unfamiliar sensory overload. soft breathing beside him, buried under a mess of sheets with blonde hairs sticking out. a woman. her upper back was exposed. wilbur removed the comforter to reveal her smooth, supple back, her ass cheeks sinking into the mattress like a pair of teardrops. memories of the bridge flooded back to him, and fragments of afterwards. wilbur could not pretend he understood women, but this one changed the calculus. he'd grabbed her, said he hated her, what she stood for. imagine making love to someone you hate, he thought. but i don't hate her. the dewy remnants of last night clung to her skin. she smelled like sex. wilbur edged closer to her and pressed their skin together, a steady erection starting to grow. his hands groped for her breasts. he kneaded and pinched and lightly bit the back of her ear. she awoke with hitched breaths. 
+sto- stop. i need to get ready for work.
+you're so submissive. are you sure? you don't want another go?
+maybe, if i survive the day. we can have dinner.
+don't be so dramatic, val. i don't know what's going through your head right now. but don't do it, okay? i'm here for you.
+at this she turns to face him. honestly, will, you're here for my tits. if that is your real name.
+wilbur reed. and i'm here because you talked to me, and no woman talks to me. i think the shit test you pulled back there was dumb. it's okay to disagree with someone and still care about them. i want you to live.
+yeah, your care is on my leg right now. but, i'll play nice with you, "wilbur". since you didn't manhandle me so much. she disappears back under the comforter.
+val, come on. hey-- ah--
+--- 21960619
+>>21960552
+My personal preference is to keep a modest number of POVs - two or three. Any more than that and it gets hard for me to keep track.
+
+Not to say more doesn't work, obviously. But I think it starts to change the nature of the story when you add more on. Less time in each head.
+--- 21960703
+>>21959563
+>>21959565
+it's not my thing contentwise so i'll just critique your style. try to be sparing with em dashes. you shouldn't be using them every paragraph. when i read this i feel like i'm drowning in adjectives. it seems to me that the words are leading you not you leadin the words. compare your writing with someone from the victorian era like dickens. he was paid by the word and even he did not use vocabulary that was so ornate and descriptive. if you're doing a pastiche of victorian then you really need to read victorian and bring out the strengths of that era of storytelling; purple prose was not one of them. just food for thought
+--- 21960821
+>>21959949
+Nah, but thanks for your input, however worthless it may be.
+--- 21960851
+>>21960703
+Not that anon but pick up a Gothic story, anon. It was popular before the Victorian era even began.
+--- 21960867
+https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/67568/a-knight-of-valora-serenity
+
+Adah Phenric took a vow to protect the world from any threats when she took an oath as a Knight of Valora. All was well until she and her team were sent on a routine mission to hunt a monster, but things go awry and Adah finds herself to be the sole survivor. Unconvinced her comrades are dead, she ventures out into the world to uncover the reasons for their disappearance. Coming in contact with a mysterious merchant, her investigation leads her to uncover a plot that threatens the world and discover the nature of the Goddess herself. Armed with nothing but her wits, friends, and a bit of magic, Adah commits to bringing the culprits to justice. For duty binds all. 
+
+Here's my silly fantasy book. I need beta readers right now. I can't figure out what I need to do to edit. It seems like I'm just writing in circles.
+--- 21960871
+>>21953826
+I only think about writing. Sometimes I brainstorm in bed before sleep, but by morning I forget all my ideas. I like watching people talk about writing and I get excited by the idea of it, but whenever I open an empty document, I just stare at a blinking cursor for ten minutes before giving up.
+--- 21960876
+>>21960867
+>but ten years of hard work did not prime her for the monumental task that befell her current task
+Really nigger? You can't figure out what to edit?
+--- 21960888
+>>21960876
+Ok okay sheesh, i'll fix the sentence.
+--- 21960892
+>>21953826
+I don't count words, I wrote 14 pages on paper with a pen.
+--- 21960905
+>>21956153
+"John Poopington speared his elbows into the solid mahogany wood of his desk. His tiny wrists creaked in protest over the task of supporting his big ass retard skull. The mopey expression of a despondent fucking moron was all scrunched up from the contact of his fists shoved against his face. A great rattling sigh expelled from his suitcase-handle lips, followed by an errant splatter of spittle. HAHAHA look at this big baby, reader. LOOK AT HIM LMAOOOO."
+--- 21960938
+>>21959466
+>RR exists more as a middle ground between indie pub and ScribbleHub
+No, RR is just SH but pretending not to be trash. SH knows it's trash. That's the only difference.
+Had I known just how fucking retarded the average person on RR is, and how useless the moderators are at dealing with obvious alt accounts and bot downvoting, and how generally fucked the site is if you're not writing something that can hit top 100, I never would have started posting there to begin with. If you are not writing anime, do not post on RR. If you are not trying to suck all the right cocks so you can blow up and milk zoomers for patreon bux, do not post on RR. If you want to keep your sanity and motivation intact, do not post on RR.
+I would actually advise SH over RR even for serious projects if only because the community there isn't as pretentious and up their own asses. They're stupid weebs and most of them know it.
+>t. well over a year posting on RR
+--- 21961000
+>>21960867
+KK wing i didn't know you made a RR account. Want me to add it to the pastebin?
+--- 21961052
+>>21960867
+How the fuck do you write so much? 
+Emily Project
+The Beautiful Kingdom
+Knight of Valora
+
+What the fuck man? I can't even finish 1 story and you finished 3?
+--- 21961057
+>>21961052
+My man he is clearly motivated.
+--- 21961066
+>>21960508
+Thanks Anon. No wonder I kept feeling as if something was wrong as I wrote the story.
+
+>>21960703
+Thank you for your time spent critiqueing, but I was writing like Poe who used em-dashes liberally. Even still, my vocabulary may be too ornate since I am also a great admirer of Clark Ashton Smith, but that’s a matter of style in my opinion.
+--- 21961067
+>>21961052
+>>21961052
+I write with terrible prose, edit horribly, and cannibalize a bunch of shit posts, short stories, and essays I write into one coherent story. If you've lurked in these threads the past 2 years, you'll see a lot of excerpts I posted in Valora. The amount of shitposting written on 4chan can generate a 60k word book easily. 
+
+>>21961000
+You can replace this with the Emily Project. Now I'm more experienced, I'm going to heavily edit The Emily Project during summer break.
+--- 21961083
+>>21961067
+Tell you a secret.
+
+I even wrote the gay assassin pirate story. But that one is going to be a litfic book. Researching constantinople and anatolia during the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent is 1000x harder than San Francisco in the 1870's. My school's library doesn't have much on him.
+--- 21961115
+New bread >>21961108 →
+Now with that fresh seafood aftertaste!
+--- 21961927
+>>21957406
+>guess the pro gamers are sexist
+Yes...?
+--- 21961931
+>>21959411
+>Er actually I'm one of the thousands of retards who read this slop
+Not quite the own you think it is.

lit/21953566.txt

@@ -54,3 +54,55 @@ He's thinking about fat pink masts jutting into myrish swamps while nuncle japes
 --- 21957015
 >>21956271
 never gets old, sweet sister
+--- 21958225
+>>21955178
+Its all over the place, I got some glimpses of season 3-4 quality with a bulk it being at the same level of season 5-6 and moments of season 7-8. I really enjoyed my first viewing but after a rewatch I was not very impressed. That being said this is the first season and it was all build up for a major event in GoT lore. How they chose to handle that event is going to make or break this show. If the rumors are true they might be attempting to stretch something that has no business being longer than 3-4 season out to a 5-7 season length and if thats the case I wouldn't bother watching it.
+Wait for season 2, if you are bored watch it now but don't hold out for the kino that was season 1-4 of GoT.
+--- 21958580
+HE OWES ME A BOOK
+--- 21959513
+He is lazy, undisciplined and has zero work ethic
+--- 21959560
+Eating pizza, watching football and collecting paychecks, just like the last ten years.
+--- 21961036
+>>21956271
+Hardest I've laughed in years
+--- 21961062
+>>21959513
+Maybe now, but he was consistent when younger. Honestly, I don't mind if he's too comfy/lazy/uninspired now, it can happen to anyone. Just own up to it, that's all.
+--- 21961150
+>>21961062
+But if he is so lazy and uninspired how did he write the Blood and Fire book and what of whatever he's talking about with Dunk and Egg
+--- 21961449
+If he's such a bad writer then tell me of a single better fantastical political dama.
+I'll wait.
+--- 21961452
+>>21961449
+Dune
+--- 21961461
+>>21961452
+I actually considered it, good one indeed, anon; but while it's science-fantasy, this is not really what I meant and you know it.
+In fact I once considered making a thread to discuss the many similarities between dune and aSoIaF, but back to the question...
+--- 21961483
+>>21961461
+I would argue that because Martin grounds the novel in realism, it is science-fantasy; first, you have to consider the historical realism as an art, but also as a science, though. Then figure out if there is an history about the work. Which is arguable.
+--- 21961488
+>>21955178
+Some parts are good, but there's a lot of dumb stuff too.
+--- 21961491
+>>21961483
+--- 21961492
+>>21953566 (OP)
+It's been almost 12 years since the last book, and by all accounts it'll be about 3 at MINIMUM which will bring us to 15 years total. Let's say he takes another 15 years for the final book. He would be 91 years old at that point. I'm going to put this politely, there is no fucking way in hell this man lives to 91. He literally made the decision not to finish his magnum opus series and gets pissed off if people bug him about it. He could have been one of the greatest fantasy writers in history, but he's completely trashed his own legacy by failing to finish it and allowing the hack at HBO to butcher the ending of the TV show.
+--- 21961496
+>>21961491
+I tried kek
+--- 21961662
+>>21961150
+I mean, I think he's done trying to make Song work. Yeah, he can do other shit, that's obvious. But it seems like all the work he thinks is required to tie up everything in Song and make everyone happy and live up to these expectations he's created, especially now the story have been told in the TV series, it seems he thinks that is not worth the hassle now.
+--- 21961951
+>>21961150
+>blood and fire
+90% was already written for the world of ice and fire history books, he just took the chapters related to the targs, complied them, edited a few things, and aded like 2 or 3 new chapters at the end. Basically he only wrote like 100 or so pages of fire and blood, everything else was taken from shit that he had already written years prior.
+>dunk and egg
+as long as it doesn't involve writing GRRM seems to be okay with working on other projects.

lit/21954221.txt

@@ -256,3 +256,547 @@ Every single post in this thread that got a response is definitely pleb, while a
 Which ones bro
 
 I am taking notes
+--- 21957883
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Stoner 
+I am legend
+The Machiavellians, defenders of freedom
+Catch 22
+Cats Cradle
+--- 21957945
+>>21957399
+Lord of the flies - not pleb
+Wind, Sand and Stars - never read
+The Fountainhead - never read 
+The picture of Dorian Gray - never read 
+Catcher in the rhye - not pleb
+
+Conclusion, probably not pleb, probably.
+--- 21957946
+>>21957427
+It's long title made me wanna read it
+I love unique titles!
+--- 21957947
+I havent read 5 books
+--- 21958015
+>>21957618
+Is that Brochs Sleepwalkers? I think Broch is quite shit but the rest is patrician.
+>>21957658
+Patrician, assuming those aren't just namedrops
+>>21957748
+Very plebeian
+>>21957766
+Quite patrician
+>>21957883
+Plebeian
+
+Having a fixed 5 goat books is plebeian in itself, but on the fly I would probably pick
+Divine Comedy
+Sorrows of Young Werther
+Keats' poems
+Eugene Onegin
+Hamlet
+--- 21958208
+>>21958015
+>Is that Brochs Sleepwalkers? I think Broch is quite shit but the rest is patrician.
+Yes, it is. Why do you think Broch is "shit"? Easily one of my favourites, had a hard time deciding between it and The Man Without Qualities.
+--- 21958249
+>>21958208
+Too stuffed with essayistic venting, like so much of the german-language literature of the time. The art takes a backseat in favor of the thought, which might be good and original but to me feels quite dated now. MwQ suffers from the same, but Törless doesn't. The later Mann is a particularly serious offender, compare Buddenbrooks (which is for all time) with Magic Mountain (which feels very much of its time).
+I would take Kafka over all of them, but in the end it's a matter of taste.
+--- 21958281
+>>21957947
+Only patrician itt
+--- 21958290
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Hamlet 
+Macbeth 
+King Lear 
+Othello 
+Antony and Cleopatra 
+The Tempest
+--- 21958296
+>>21958290
+That's six bro! SIX.
+So it only counts until Antony and Cleopatra!
+--- 21958338
+>>21958290
+Most obvious tryhard pleb ITT
+--- 21958348
+>>21954221 (OP)
+The Book of Disquiet 
+Crime & Punishment
+Stoner 
+
+Haven't read enough books to add more 2.
+--- 21958373
+Bible
+Crime and punishment
+The Wreth of the Mountain
+The Fruit Thief
+Animal farm
+(I like so many others. it's hard to pick)
+Bridge on Drina
+Brothers Karamazov
+War and peace
+Petkana
+LOTR
+Process
+The roots
+Migrations
+Metamorphosis 
+Coiling Dragon
+--- 21958392
+Mount Analogue
+Makura no Soushi
+Tsurezuregusa
+No Exit
+Bassotuba non c'é
+--- 21958402
+>>21958338
+Looks like the record has been broken pretty quickly, spit on the new king >>21958373
+--- 21958425
+>>21958373
+FIVE, NIGGA. 5. F I V E. 10/2. 100-95. 3+2. 5x1. THE NUMBER AFTER FOUR AND BETWEEN SIX.!!!! FAIILLLLL
+--- 21958442
+>>21958373
+Apparently you can’t read instructions, so I get the feeling you didn’t read these books either
+--- 21958523
+>>21954885
+>Voss
+
+Based
+--- 21958543
+>>21954221 (OP)
+The Mulanadhyamakakarika
+The Bagavad Gita 
+Dostoyeskys demons 
+To the light house 
+Book of disquiet
+--- 21958577
+>>21957311
+Sounds like you're a pleb
+--- 21958581
+>>21957618
+No I haven't but if you rec them I'll check em out.
+--- 21958632
+>>21958543
+Patrician
+--- 21958672
+>>21958442
+I named 5 books, but I wanted to name a few more. The first five are to be judged, and the next give is just for those who aren't dure about what I am into, not for grading.
+--- 21958681
+>>21958425
+The first 6 for grading, other give just do people know whst I am into. Many of the books are Serbian books, and maybe people won't be able to grade just on the first 5.
+--- 21958693
+>>21958425
+For example, if you dont understand what one of the top 5 books is, pick one belliw you know and replace it. It would be bad if out of my top 5 books, people know only two or three.
+--- 21958705
+Ok, here is a short list since people hste there being ectra books:
+1. Bible
+2. Crime and Punishment - Dostoyevsky 
+3. Wreath of the Mountain - Njegoš
+4. Fruit Thief - Handke 
+5. Animal Farm - Orwell
+--- 21958832
+A Farewell to Arms
+Dubliners
+Mason & Dixon
+Slaughterhouse-Five
+The Sound and the Fury
+--- 21958876
+LotR - Youtube audiobook version.
+Magicians of the Gods - Graham Hancock
+The Dirt - Motley Crue autobiography
+The Da Vinci Code - Dan Brown
+Meditations - Marcus Aurelius. first quarter. (Working my way through the rest)
+--- 21958910
+>>21958705
+>Bible
+
+Instant pleb
+--- 21958911
+>>21954221 (OP)
+>The Sea of Fertility
+>Light in August
+>Voss
+>Dead Souls
+>Butcher’s Crossing
+--- 21958950
+Pleb >>21954221 (OP)
+Mine:
+>The Canterbury Tales
+>Sir Gawain and the Green Knight
+>Bible (WYC)
+>Layamon's Brut
+>Piers Plowman
+--- 21958970
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Butlerian Jihad
+Machine crusade
+Battle of corrin
+Sisterhood of dune
+Mentats of dune
+Navigators of dune
+help
+--- 21958977
+>>21957399
+>Ayn Rand
+
+Oaf
+--- 21959044
+>>21958876
+Pleb squared, if it were only shit books I could forgive you, but rating a book you haven't yet finished is only slightly below willfully damaging books
+--- 21959061
+>>21958977
+I like the book for what it symbolises not it's content or underlying ideology
+--- 21959162
+>>21958249
+The essayistic style is precisely why I enjoy it so much, but to each his own, I guess. I also prefer, e.g., The Magic Mountain and Doctor Faustus to Mann's earlier works.
+>>21958581
+Yes, they are amazing books! Aunt Julia and the Scriptwriter, The Real Life of Alejandro Mayta, The War At The End Of The World, Death in the Andes and Who Killed Palomino Molero are also great.
+--- 21959210
+>>21954221 (OP)
+>The Holy Quran
+>Storm of Steel
+>For My Legionnaires
+>Life For Sale
+>Dune
+--- 21959236
+>>21954221 (OP)
+uhh
+>Essays, Montagne
+>Demons
+>What Is to Be Done?
+>Cicero's works
+>Hero with a thousand faces
+--- 21959252
+>>21959210
+based warmongerer
+--- 21959270
+>ur nan's diary
+>the schizo label on dr. bronner's soap
+>how to draw by scott robertson
+>de rerum natura
+>an occurrence at owl creek bridge
+--- 21959281
+>>21958876
+owari da
+--- 21959453
+>>21958015
+>Patrician
+Thanks, anon
+>assuming those aren't just namedrops
+No, why would they be?
+
+Also, I've got to read Keats and Eugene Onegin
+--- 21959644
+>>21959210
+Sand-core edgelord reading list
+--- 21959659
+>Blood Meridian
+>Sun and Steel
+>East of Eden
+>Notes from Underground
+>Siddartha
+--- 21960309
+>>21958876
+patrician if you're below 16. If you are an adult please start reading actual books.
+--- 21960390
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Diary of a Wimpy Kid: Rodrick Rulez
+Calvin and Hobbs
+CAPTAIN UNDERPANTS
+And lastly would be The Offical Game Guide for Skyrim
+--- 21960412
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Dante, Homer, Shakespeare, Borges, Pound.
+I am in doubt about the last two, but they are probably my biggest *direct* influences. The other three influence me too, but they are too remote from our era for our preoccupations, worldviews etc. to be similar to theirs. Borges and Pound are much closer.
+--- 21960469
+>The Haunted Mask
+>Less Than Zero
+>Animal Farm
+>Bridge To Terabithia
+>Folk and the faraway tree
+--- 21960476
+>>21960390
+Throw the official minecraft joke book into the mix and you got yourself a patricians wet dream
+--- 21960493
+>>21956885
+>>21957267
+the only actual readers itt
+--- 21960514
+>>21954221 (OP)
+The Holy Bible
+Peaceable Kingdom
+The Traveling Vampire Show
+The Terror
+The Essential Writings of Machiavelli
+--- 21961034
+>>21957590
+Pleb
+
+>>21957610
+Almost patrician
+
+>>21957618
+Patrician.
+
+>>21957658
+Patrician.
+
+>>21957748
+Pleb
+
+>>21957762
+Unsufferably boring pleb
+
+>>21957766
+Eh, weird. Pleb then.
+
+>>21957883
+Pleb.
+
+>>21958015
+Patrician
+
+>>21958290
+Pseud
+
+>>21958373
+Eat shit and die, plebeian scum. You are the disgrace of the empire.
+
+>>21958392
+Pleb.
+
+>>21958543
+Pleb
+
+>>21958705
+Pleb and pseud
+
+>>21958832
+Patrician.
+
+>>21958876
+Normies delendam esse
+
+>>21958911
+Pleb
+
+>>21958950
+Weird
+
+>>21958970
+Pleb
+
+>>21959210
+Normie 
+
+>>21959236
+Weird
+
+Too many, it's getting boring
+--- 21961063
+This thread is complete dog shit, everyone is getting called a pleb
+--- 21961072
+>>21961063
+Not me.
+--- 21961087
+>>21954221 (OP)
+My top 5 is very boring, especially on here since they're all meme books here 
+
+>Moby Dick
+>The charterhouse of Parma
+>A hero of our time 
+>war and peace 
+>sartor resartus 
+Probably something like this
+--- 21961118
+>>21954221 (OP)
+>Gospel of John
+>Summa Theologica
+>Catechism of the Catholic Church
+>Anna Karenina
+>Swinburne Collected
+No questions, thanks.
+--- 21961122
+>>21958910
+>Instant pleb
+It defintely wasn't the favorite book for Melville, Tolstoy, or Shakespeare or any of the other favorite /lit/ authors here. Oh, wait - it was.
+--- 21961137
+Oblomov
+A Rebours
+Tristram Shandy
+The Good Soldier Svejk
+The Turner Diaries
+--- 21961138
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Silence
+Neuromancer
+The Aleph
+Memoirs Of Hadrian
+The Name Of The Rose
+--- 21961158
+>>21954983
+>>21955037
+>>21956137
+>>21956632
+>>21957610
+>>21957658
+>>21958373
+>>21961087
+Definite lit-core plebs
+
+>>21956102
+Some odd choices but respect for picking that Dostoevsky short above everything else.
+
+>>21957399
+>>21959659
+Teen choices, but some of these are good, so you have potential. 
+
+>>21957748
+Actually sound like real choices by a real person. Respect, even if it's a bit entry level.
+
+>>21958392
+Trying too hard.
+
+>>21958832
+Trying too hard not to try too hard.
+
+>>21958543
+Decent choices, even if I hate Woolf.
+
+>>21959236
+Sounds like a reasonable, anon.
+
+>>21961118
+Christ-pilled. Should be on /his/ instead of /litl.
+--- 21961176
+>>21961158
+Don't call me a litcore pleb. It's not my fault this board stole my taste
+--- 21961194
+>>21954221 (OP)
+>1984
+>Farewell to Arms
+>A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms
+>Thus Spoke Zarathustra
+In all honesty, I haven't read as much fiction as I should have.
+--- 21961195
+>>21961137
+Oh I forgot the Turner Diaries here >>21961194
+I also really like Harold Covington's series.
+--- 21961207
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Don Quixote
+Lord of the Rings
+Ansichten eines Clowns
+De Ontdekking van de Hemel
+Infinite Jest
+--- 21961637
+>wilhelm meister's apprenticeship
+>goethe's faust
+>paradise lost
+>childe harold's pilgrimage
+>Miss Julie
+--- 21961655
+>>21961207
+Ansichten eines Clowns is a fantastic book and definitely not one I expected to see here, is it possible to be 1/5th patrician?
+--- 21961670
+>>21954221 (OP)
+1. Eye of Argon by. Jim Theis
+2. Stones to Abbigale by. Onision
+3. Modelland by. Tyra Banks
+4. Empress Theresa by. Norman Boutin
+5. Halo by. Alexandra Adornetto
+--- 21961680
+>>21961637
+Patrician
+
+Gravity's Rainbow
+JR
+Moby Dick
+Ulysses 
+Under the Volcano
+--- 21961701
+>>21961194
+Fairly normie-core, but there's actually not much wrong with that whatever dilettantes here say.
+
+>>21961207
+Pseud. Including LotR doesn't detract from that.
+
+>>21961637
+High tier.
+
+>>21961670
+Nope.
+
+>>21961680
+Almost breaking free of the lit-core.
+--- 21961734
+None of you like any of these books. I counted two genuine answers in the whole thread. Bunch of tryhard faggots itt.
+--- 21961750
+>>21954221 (OP) 
+>The Great Finger 
+>Beyond Good and Finger
+>Blood Finger
+>Finger Shrugged
+>Mein Finker
+--- 21961757
+1. Lolita
+2. Notes from Underground
+3. The Lord of the Rings
+4. The Time Machine
+5. The Divine Comedy
+
+>>21956686
+non-pleb
+>>21957590
+pleb, also woman
+>>21957658
+patrician
+>>21961750
+fuck off
+--- 21961759
+>>21961734
+Need a /lit/ equivalent of pic. Probably includes GR, IJ, C&P, Quixote, Celine, not sure what else.
+--- 21961843
+>>21961734
+which ones?
+--- 21961896
+1. The Book of Sirach
+
+2. The Art of Worldly Wisdom (Balthazar Gracian)
+
+3. The Catcher in the Rye (J.D. Salinger)
+
+4. Counsels and Maxims (Arthur Schopenhauer)
+
+5. Night Train to Rigel (Timothy Zahn)
+--- 21961952
+>>21954221 (OP)
+Not the best ones, but the ones that touched me the most (fuck tryhards):
+>The Horizon (Mysliwski; still untranslated into English)
+>A World Apart: The Journal of a Gulag Survivor (Herling-Grudzinski)
+>Lord Jim (Conrad)
+>Confessions of a Mask (Mishima)
+>A Burnt Child (Dagerman)
+Honorable mention: 
+>The Emperor (Kapuscinski)
+--- 21961966
+>>21958705
+Pleb 
+>>21958832
+Almost patrician 
+>>21958876
+Lmao 
+>>21958911
+>>21958950
+>>21959236
+Total pseuds and tryhards
+>>21959659
+Patrician 
+>>21958543
+A hindoo lunatic
+>>21961087
+Patrician

lit/21954320.txt

@@ -39,3 +39,188 @@ It would be a huge mistake to want an adaptation.
 --- 21956612
 >>21954320 (OP)
 You can't really explain it without ruining it but you just have to slog through to the end for it to make sense. It doesn't feel like it the first time through but it's meant to be read multiple times. For the first time just get through it and take what you can get.
+--- 21957912
+>>21955256
+stop lying
+--- 21957976
+>>21955166
+Nice another faggot to filter
+--- 21957980
+>>21954722
+2nd one was the best imo although 4 gets into the war which is quite an insane scenario and the end of the story is phenomenal
+--- 21957987
+>>21954722
+This, first 2 were quite slow for me but the third was worth all that effort, I still have visual flashbacks to the typhon encounter, the descent from the mountains, the alzabo, and more. Amazingly written.
+--- 21958167
+>>21954320 (OP)
+The second book is the best imo. Literally unputdown-able. Every chapter is interesting and mindblowing in some way.
+--- 21958250
+>>21955698
+>>21955758
+same fag. go read some of your chad lit then, which i guarantee you don't and only pretend to.
+--- 21958352
+>>21957912
+read Song of Myself
+--- 21958377
+>>21954320 (OP)
+Why does Severain feel the need to explicitly state that he didn't molest little Severian? Like why would we assume that?
+--- 21958565
+>>21955166
+If you want sex non-stop you're a pathetic addict. 
+If you need friends around non-stop you are a sad excuse for a human.
+If you get a thrill making money you're probably a pauper.
+--- 21958669
+For me it's apu punchau
+--- 21958963
+My ranking of the books:
+Citadel>Autarch>Claw>Shadow
+
+None are bad but it's one of the rare examples of where a series just gets progressively better with each book. How Wolfe did it I'll never know. 
+
+>>21958167
+
+Always thought it was a little weird he wanted the same skinship as Dorcas and her friend that just stuck out to me as odd when he reacted to Little Sev's death
+--- 21958974
+>>21957976
+based
+--- 21958979
+>>21954320 (OP)
+redpill me on this series
+--- 21958985
+>>21958352
+FUCK
+--- 21959011
+>>21958963
+
+I meant Sword not Citadel for my favourite book my mistake
+--- 21959251
+>>21955166
+>
+--- 21959375
+>>21958377
+because it is something done in the world. you'll read about some of it near the end of book 3.
+--- 21959387
+>>21958963
+i think citadel is the most interesting with all the short stories near the beginning, the war and how it all ends but book 2 or 3 are probably my favorites. 2 introduces you to all the bizarre shit in the world and 3 is just a fantastic hero's journey.
+--- 21959432
+>>21958963
+>Always thought it was a little weird he wanted the same skinship as Dorcas and her friend that just stuck out to me as odd when he reacted to Little Sev's death
+I don't get what you mean. Did you mean companionship? What does that have to do with the second book being the best.
+I actually went into the second book kinda disappointed, the setting of the village seemed pretty dull on paper, yet every chapter had something that completely grabbed my attention and imagination, and the book gets weirder and weirder with each chapter. After the play the atmosphere is absolutely mesmerizing, and the finale is out of this world, literally. The other books are great as well, but Claw has the best "vibe" to me. The Joturna encounter. The miracles on the pampas. The ending. Gives me shivers just thinking about all that.
+Only thing that comes close is the jackal hut in Lictor.
+--- 21959488
+What do i need to know before reading these books?
+--- 21959733
+>>21954320 (OP)
+>the second book is boring me to tears.
+Really? The scene in the cave did nothing for you?
+--- 21960272
+>>21955256
+>>21958565
+>>21959251
+Reminder that you are all RETARDED HYPOCRITES.
+So you’re telling me that if I put a hot woman on your bed with her legs spread and gave you a good book, you’d choose the book?
+--- 21960274
+>>21960272
+i'm happily married. i'd pick the book in a heart beat.
+--- 21960278
+>>21960274
+Tell your husband to monitor your internet usage for the good of this board.
+--- 21960295
+>>21960272
+No, I guess I'd fuck her and then continue the book. You must be over 18 to post here btw
+--- 21960297
+>>21954320 (OP)
+Instead of boring yourself to tears, how about you jump in front of a semi truck, bitch?
+--- 21960299
+>>21960295
+>admits he would prioritize sex
+I accept the concession.
+--- 21960318
+>>21960299
+You're right, from now on I will focus on fucking at least 20 times per day and literally not do anything else.
+--- 21960325
+>>21960318
+The only reason you don’t, is because you know you won’t see results, freak.
+--- 21960481
+>replying to mentally ill namefag
+--- 21960517
+How old is Severian meant to be when he visits the prosititutes? I think he was a late teen but I thought he was younger when I first read it I was trying to work out a rough estimate on what his age might be around the time he is exiled from the guild but I think Wolfe left it ambiguious on purpose.
+--- 21960639
+>>21958669
+>For me it's apu punchau
+wtf was that part about anyways? why did they go again? the fuck happened to hildegrin?
+--- 21960670
+>>21960639
+Did you read Urth? Genuinely don't read the spoilers if not
+The Sev we follow through the books is a series of eidolons created by the ayys, he's predestined to bring the New Sun so they basically give him infinite respawns. The "original" Sev died in the avern duel (or even earlier) and likely dies every time he miraculously "survives" something. When he brings the Sun he gets time powers and self-fulfills the prophecy by acting as various sun gods throughout human history (and dying some more, apparently respawning himself now), including AP who's doing some sort of ritual with ayys when they see him in the ruins.
+Hildegrin eventually tells Agia to chill with her murder boner so she murders him, I think that's mentioned at the end of Citadel.
+--- 21960705
+>>21960517
+he's a late teen but during the triskele chapter i think he was much, much younger. in urth of the new sun, which is 10 years later, he says he's about the same age as someone who looks 25.
+--- 21960719
+>>21958963
+>Always thought it was a little weird he wanted the same skinship as Dorcas and her friend that just stuck out to me as odd
+are you talking about when he has sex with jolenta? prior to that one time I dont think he ever showed interest in her and I feel like he was influenced either by the megatherians in some way or because he touched her at the house absolute (maybe something to do with what badlanders did to make her desirable?)
+--- 21961166
+>>21960670
+I don't think Severian becomes an eidolon even once in BotNS because by then his Sun is close enough to give him powers, so he doesn't need to have the aliens make an eidolon for his anima. He can resurrect himself, like in the avern duel. In UotNS he needs the eidolons made for him because on Tzadkiel's ship he is too distant in spacetime from his Sun to resurrect himself (it may not even exist yet). Same for when he is killed by the natives, his Sun is too far away. Barbatus, Ossipago, and Famulimus resurrect him as an eidolon moments before his Sun is close enough to give him resurrection powers. Then, when the New Sun is close enough, Severian's previous body resurrects itself, that's why he sees his own dead body get up right when he's about to leave (which then becomes Apu Punchau).
+--- 21961186
+>>21960670
+Oh, also I think you may be thinking of Agia killing Vodalus at the end of Citadel. Hildegrin died at the end of Claw because Severian merged with Apu Punchau and basically vaporized Hildegrin who was nearby.
+--- 21961296
+I dropped the first book in the part about the mirrors, specifically in the scene that's set up in a house in one of the mirror worlds (or some shit like that) with a bunch of randos acting. Like, I kind of understand the conext of it (I think, it was so fucking psychodelic), but all in all, the book left me the impression that while Mr. Wolfe is a talented writer, he consumed way too much LSD.
+Should I give it another chance or it doesn't get better?
+>>21960272
+There are moments for each thing.
+You can't fuck in your office or in public transport, but you can always grab a good book. 
+And even so, I totally disagree with you, anon, sex is not better than literature: the first will only satiate your biological needs, the latter can be a very intellectually enriching, and even (with some luck) a life changing experience.
+--- 21961316
+>>21960272
+>>21961296
+>nooooo you can't prefer intellectual stimulation over fucking a hoe
+Lol
+--- 21961379
+>>21961296
+I'm guessing you're talking about the hut in the jungle garden? I'd give it another chance. That section is arguably one of the more confusing parts in the book. I'd advise not trying to think about it too much especially since it's your first read through. The rest of the series, while confusing at times, is more grounded.
+--- 21961384
+>>21954320 (OP)
+If you're not enthralled by the series by Book 2, it might not be for you. But, to answer your question, the lore is gradually expanded upon as you continue. You get some huge lore reveals in Book 3, and then second half of Book 4 and basically all of Book 5 are non-stop lore dumps.
+--- 21961390
+>>21955493
+by who? not by me. Its a 7/10 but not the greatest book ever like faggots such as neil gayman seem to think. You guys are just so used to reading shit that the moment you come across a book that isn't complete dogshit you prop it up as the best ever despite its obvious flaws to anyone with a brain. Even Hyperion cantos (8/10) is better and it isn't even that good
+
+also reading the sequels is basically required so selling it as a four volume self contained series is retarded. Just say "the solar cycle is the best series ever" instead of botns.
+--- 21961402
+>>21961379
+Yes indeed, that part.
+Thank you clarifying, if that's as bad as it gets, I guess I can take it, after all I liked the overall setting, thought the plot was slower than what i'm used to
+Probably will grab it again after I drop Dune, heard it also gets fucking weird (Frank Herbert was probably another LSD abuser)
+--- 21961409
+>>21961390
+thanks for reminding me about hyperion. still have to read it.
+--- 21961416
+>>21961390
+what's your favorite 10/10 or 9/10 sci fi book/series?
+--- 21961427
+>>21961409
+Lmao, don't.
+First book has its moments, but overall it's more psychodelic sci-fi of the age. This case however is specially fascinating and weird in how anachronistic it is, all chapters reference in some way old things that are considered obscure and retro even for today standars:
+>whole detailed simulations of medieval battles
+>obscure poets being revived as cyborgs
+>hitler is fucking mentioned 1000000 years in the future, even after earth was destroyed
+>first book ends with the characters singing the Wizard of Oz song (lmao)
+I mean it's a theme of the book, but in my opinion it does not meshes well with sci-fi.
+Not to mention that, I heard, somehow it gets totally stupid in the sequels, like, "the christian church infecting the entire galaxy with parasites in the form of crosses and becoming the new evil empire" levels of stupid. It can get entertaining, but there are certainly better things to read.
+>>21961390
+>Hyperion cantos 
+>8/10
+lol, I would give it a 6.5
+--- 21961450
+>>21961416
+haven't read anything worth that high of a rating. some of asimovs stories are really well put together even if they aren't the best ever though.
+--- 21961753
+>>21958963
+>>21954722
+>>21957987
+Just begun the third book, feeling pretty hyped. Have you guys listened to the audiobook versions that Roy Avers did for the institute for the blind? Some of the best audiobook narration I've ever heard, he really seems to understand the text. You can find it on YouTube if you look hard enough

lit/21954371.txt

@@ -395,3 +395,222 @@ I suspect that on 4chan, or at least /lit/, the people who consciously seek to h
 You're thinking strictly of one argument/post at a time, which doesn't make sense in this context. One post motivates another person to post, which in turn leads to a back-and-forth exchange, the sum of which is the entire debate. Their acting rudely in one post might have the same affect on your next post, but the effect that your next post has on their next post *will* be dependent on their character and motives. If they continue that pattern of behavior, then it will have the same effect as someone acting dishonestly, and as such I would agree with your conclusion, but if it was just a brief moment of arrogance then you continuing the conversation might cause them to argue normally going forward.
 
 Also, and this is a strictly practical reason limited to 4chan, occasionally other Anons will jump into a productive conversation with rude remarks and if you adopt an absolute zero-tolerance policy then you are likely to end conversations which are being carried on in a purely respectable manner.
+--- 21958186
+>>21957025
+>You're thinking strictly of one argument/post at a time, which doesn't make sense in this context. One post motivates another person to post, which in turn leads to a back-and-forth exchange, the sum of which is the entire debate. Their acting rudely in one post might have the same affect on your next post, but the effect that your next post has on their next post *will* be dependent on their character and motives. If they continue that pattern of behavior, then it will have the same effect as someone acting dishonestly, and as such I would agree with your conclusion, but if it was just a brief moment of arrogance then you continuing the conversation might cause them to argue normally going forward.
+>Also, and this is a strictly practical reason limited to 4chan, occasionally other Anons will jump into a productive conversation with rude remarks and if you adopt an absolute zero-tolerance policy then you are likely to end conversations which are being carried on in a purely respectable manner.
+Well said and worth emphasizing.
+--- 21958380
+>>21956081
+>and what survives of Chrysippus
+How much is that? Is there a collection you'd recommend?
+--- 21959389
+courtesy bump
+--- 21959945
+>>21958380
+https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysippus check the titles listed in the sources - I haven't read all of them apart from bits of Gould (1970) and Zellar (1880). Sextus Empiricus and Diogenes Laertius are probably the cleanest old world sources.
+
+The more impressive aspects of Chrysippus are new discoveries since certainly people aren't really aware of his influence and achievements:
+
+1) System of precise investigation resembling and greatly predating what we would call Scientific Method today,
+2) this being recognized in his day and contributing to his legacy, his dialectic being described as "the dialectic of the gods,"
+3) his character revealing 'how' he thought and approached things - this is the most valuable study we really have (I've made the case elsewhere that the absence of his books is actually better for us: since people studying these topics have no opportunity to lapse into schoolboyish dogmatism over "what he said" as they do with other philosophers and end up learning nothing of the methodology),
+
+Empiricus gets that part of things, (against the dogmatists, against the professors, infintieregression as a means to cast doubt on those peoples own dogmas claiming to be absolutely sure of things) ... it's interesting to think that a lot Empiricus's intentions were to fortify the propositional logic of Chrysippus and the Stoics, since it makes more sense that way, rather than the position adopted by later and modern philosophers of "we cannot know anything," etc.
+
+>>21957022
+Even this allows us to work with something; as I was aruging yesterday, if a person (does as you say; flies into a temper and isnt being honest) then they're revealing to you and the audience that weren't interested in the truth of the thing but merely in affirming their own preheld notions of a thing. I think to enable the mind to shrug off such people entirely is the vital missing piece in the equation of self-development that th Stoics understood (e.g. extricate ones self from pathos - and recognize the pernicious influence of those who are stuck in pathos in order to become immune to it; i.e. to not throw away a genius discovery - if it's completely correct - because the peers begin to attack you over it). 
+
+Good Rhetoric, or Grammatike, is straight Logos whereas Bad Rhetoric is Pathos.
+--- 21960012
+>>21958186
+>worth emphasizing.
+>>21957025
+>Plenty of people will be vulgar or emotional
+I agree in part with what you're saying... this is what I do anyway IRL, for the most part, ...but there is the matter of 'permitting' people to aggrandize themselves at your expense; verbatim ad hominem (to make you seem weak or foolish in order to make your position seem the same way by association), which is a bad rhetorical tactic (appeal to audience, dishonesty, etc.) but which obviously works - even if to maybe to only 10% of on-lookers. If a person, hostile to your position, only engages with you in order to make you seem weak in the eyes of any on-lookers (by doing those kind of things) then there is no reason whatsoever to permit that to take place.
+
+You have to bear in mind that if a person is hostile already to a position and cannot refute it yet will no abandon it then the only course of action they have is to instigate these bad sorts of things; they will be the only people who do instigate it and part of their aim to present an illusion of unpopularity by influencing those others, as you say,
+>there are plenty of people who will be rude for the sake of being rude, 
+>I suspect that on 4chan, or at least /lit/, the people who consciously seek to hide their lack of an argument with personal attacks are relatively few 
+>occasionally other Anons will jump into a productive conversation with rude remarks and if you adopt an absolute zero-tolerance policy 
+
+I appreciate this here - the anonymous online forum - is unique in that it lends itself to this 'fake influence' problem... but it's not radically different to talking in front of a crowd when the basic principles are discerned of the tactic of one person to influence a minority inside that crowd in order to disrupt the discussion to attempt to avoid a conclusion being reached from that discussion.
+
+Consider that this is the only means by which logic is impeded in human societies, for instance, if so (and maybe it is so) then adopting an effective means to render that single method of disruption to be impossible is a necessity. Again, consider the same conversation taking place in a court; it's the threat of punishment that keeps a detractor from hurling abuse and declaring themselves victorious in lieu of proving anything that they say; whilst if they're doing this from an emotional or intellectual failing then notice even then that if they're put in a scenario when they cannot do it (through fear of punishment) then all of a sudden they gain self-control and show themselves to have been 'choosing' to abuse rather than not being able to contain their frustration.
+--- 21960018
+Richard I know you post here I just know it
+--- 21960061
+ed.
+>whilst if they're doing this from an emotional or intellectual failing then notice even then that if they're put in a scenario when they cannot do it (through fear of punishment) then all of a sudden they gain self-control and show themselves to have been 'choosing' to abuse rather than not being able to contain their frustration.
+I mean here: if you're tolerating their conduct because you suppose that it's an emotional failing, then notice how that's not true when a threat of punishment is introduced.
+
+My own opinion, and it is just opinion, is that very very very few people capable of functioning in the world do not possess this self-control, but that they're largely encouraged to never practice it by their societies.
+
+Consider how libel laws aren't enforced or how telling lies, outside of a court, isn't considered to be a crime. It should be, as: if it 'was' treated as a crime then the people with wrong ideas (i mean, ideas they cannot prove yet bitterly attack others over) would be forced to abandon their position, and the harmful effect of their ulterior modes of disrupting investigations into things would end as a consequence.
+--- 21960111
+>>21960018
+richard w?
+--- 21960180
+>>21954660
+>I won't make your case for you, anon, you need to demonstrate a scenario where,
+Politicans for example the current belgian health minister or the former eu commissary for digital agenda. Accepting their authority on topics they are ignorant about is admitting defeat
+--- 21960197
+>>21960012
+>If a person, hostile to your position, only engages with you in order to make you seem weak in the eyes of any on-lookers (by doing those kind of things) then there is no reason whatsoever to permit that to take place.
+I agree, but the operative word here is "only." If it's a mixture of rudeness and good arguments then the situation is blurrier. In practice, I would tend to match their insults to negate any sort of advantage they gain from doing so; though hardly good rhetoric, that restores an even playing field and is usually quite effective.
+ 
+>consider the same conversation taking place in a court
+Well there is no punishment you can deal out, except ending the conversation or resorting to personal attacks yourself. If a court case had to end every time a lawyer was held in contempt, and that lawyer faced no other repercussions, then a judge would have to be much more selective about holding them in contempt. Obviously that would be a terrible setting for debate, but since it's the one we're on right now you should adjust how you approach the issue accordingly. In that hypothetical bad courtroom, it's easy to imagine some particularly arrogant/impulsive lawyers being rude or aggressive even when their arguments are strong, and you as a lawyer would still have to engage with them. It's only when that behavior rises to a certain threshold that you can conclusively infer that their position is weak.
+>>21960061
+>if you're tolerating their conduct because you suppose that it's an emotional failing, then notice how that's not true when a threat of punishment is introduced.
+There is a relevant distinction between choosing to be rude and not choosing not to be rude. Besides maybe some criminals or young children, everyone is capable of choosing not to be rude in 100% of cases where they aren't provoked. That, however, doesn't mean that that same person is going to choose to not to be rude in a given circumstance. A perfectly self-controlled asshole will not be rude in a courtroom where he could be punished for it (i.e. court), but absolutely would be rude in a situation where he won't be punished for it (i.e. 4channel).
+--- 21960327
+>>21960197
+I think we're not talking about the same thing; a personal attack,
+> (ad hominem, off topic, appeal to the audience, etc.).
+isn't being "rude" ... in the sense of being vitriolic ... but 'ad hominem', as in: to the person and not to the case/subject/matter/topic. I'm not talking about personal insults (see: >>21954527) but things which avoid the case by diverting the conversation ad hominem... being "rude" is just way too broad; personal taste etc., but clear diversion is a precise thing we can identify.
+
+I'm aware of this precisely because I'm well-aware of the misuse 'of' such counter-measures; people have, in the past, (as well as all the time lol) falsely accused someone of being rude in order to avoid continuing an discussion on a topic, so "being rude" is not a good standard.
+
+
+>I agree, but the operative word here is "only."
+No, it's "if" - i.e. 'if' you're aware that a certain clique "only engages with you in order to (do XYZ)", whereas 'if' you have no reason to think that might be occurring then there's no reason to adopt the counter-measure as there's nobody to warrant it.
+
+>>21960180
+>the current belgian health minister
+I've heard about this, fuck that guy. If he was dragged into a court and hooked up to lie detection tech there's no way he'd be able to present his case without getting horrible electrical shocks.
+--- 21960577
+>>21960327
+>isn't being "rude" ... in the sense of being vitriolic ... but 'ad hominem', as in: to the person and not to the case/subject/matter/topic
+The issue with that is the assumption that you can always differentiate between rudeness and a personal attack. Someone simply being an asshole is often going to be indistinguishable from them being carefully manipulative. As you've argued before (>>21956971), their underlying intention doesn't change the meaning/effect of the words and so in practice they'll function much the same way as normal (i.e. manipulative) personal attacks and should be considered part of the same category. It does, however, reflect differently on the person using them to argue since some person using personal attacks because they're rude might mean they are not hiding some weakness, and their behavior going forward will change depending on their motive for the attacks.
+
+It's really a problem of discerning what personal attacks are just someone being rude, and which ones are intentionally manipulative. Since this is not generally possible to discern, your attitudes and assumptions of all people who use personal attacks should also account for people who are just being rude—at least until you acquire enough information to make a stronger judgment, which is not a luxury that will be available in most cases.
+
+>No, it's "if" - i.e. 'if' you're aware that a certain clique "only engages with you in order to (do XYZ)", whereas 'if' you have no reason to think that might be occurring then there's no reason to adopt the counter-measure as there's nobody to warrant it.
+"Only" is still an issue, although I was probably imprecise in my wording. Obviously if someone is only arguing dishonestly then you should assume they're being dishonest and act accordingly. If it's a mixture of honesty and dishonesty then it might make sense to assume the best of them until you are proven wrong. 
+
+Also, strictly out of convenience, people might mix personal attacks with logical arguments since, even if they believe they can demonstrate their position rationally, they might also believe that personal attacks will strengthen their position and make it easier to "win" the overall debate. Whether you want to engage with those people is, I suppose, a matter of personal preference, but they're still an exception to the general rule of personal attacks meaning they have a weak position. Even if they correctly believe they could win the debate with logical reasoning, they might want to end it earlier to go jack off or something.
+--- 21960617
+>>21960577
+>Also, strictly out of convenience, people might mix personal attacks with logical arguments since, even if they believe they can demonstrate their position rationally, they might also believe that personal attacks will strengthen their position and make it easier to "win" the overall debate. Whether you want to engage with those people is, I suppose, a matter of personal preference, but they're still an exception to the general rule of personal attacks meaning they have a weak position. Even if they correctly believe they could win the debate with logical reasoning, they might want to end it earlier to go jack off or something.
+Or even as a rhetorical flourish, like a mic drop. There's also always the factor of trolling to see someone double down, bluff, get frustrated and off their game, etc.
+--- 21960634
+Maybe another element is whether the argument is perceived the same way. Like for instance one person could be summarizing a position neutrally and be mistaken for holding it. Are they looking to debate it then? That might get a different response more at crosspurposes between the people arguing.
+--- 21960666
+>>21960577
+>their underlying intention doesn't change the meaning/effect of the words and so in practice they'll function much the same way
+Yes, that's why they should be treated the same way; whether they were emotionally disturbed or just pretending tobe emotionally disturbed - but 'if' you don't have proof that deception is 'likely' to be occuring (comparing a subject where people are invested and would attack you to a subject where nobody is invested and nobody would attack you) then you don't have the same need to be heavy-handed about it; to be forced to treat the offended person as if they were putting on a show.
+
+>The issue with that is the assumption that you can always differentiate between rudeness and a personal attack
+> Since this is not generally possible to discern,
+I don't understand the distinction you're making then; "vitriole" (anything from calling someone an idiot to having your 'posture' being interpreted as indeferent, etc.) is basic rudeness (rudis: unpolished manners), but basic rudeness is 'not' deception that resembles ad hominem in the manner we've described.
+
+>It's really a problem of discerning what personal attacks are just someone being rude, and which ones are intentionally manipulative.
+I guess this seems more complicated than it is; although you yourself have said that you're arguing for an overall minority (i.e. the 4chan user on the internet) and not the norm or everyday scenario... not the court room scenario, etc. ... where this otherwise applies.
+
+>Even if they correctly believe they could win the debate with logical reasoning, (and they don't pursue it and insult instead)
+...are you suggesting that a person who insults someone has it in their mind that this is 'more effective' to change the other persons mind (than responding directly to an argument with proofs)? I find that preposterous ... and incongruous also with your earlier statements where that person (who insults the other) is frustrated and has given up trying to change the other persons mind, or has had an emotional breakdown and flown into a temper:
+
+e.g.
+"Bastard, bastard!" I shouted, in hopes to change Dr Adams mind about his theorum, I thought next of the ting more likely to convince him of the error in his paper, "you have a bad haircut!" I shouted next.
+--- 21960759
+>>21960666
+>Yes, that's why they should be treated the same way; whether they were emotionally disturbed or just pretending tobe emotionally disturbed - but 'if' you don't have proof that deception is 'likely' to be occuring (comparing a subject where people are invested and would attack you to a subject where nobody is invested and nobody would attack you) then you don't have the same need to be heavy-handed about it; to be forced to treat the offended person as if they were putting on a show.
+Agreed
+
+>basic rudeness is 'not' deception that resembles ad hominem in the manner we've described.
+No, it's not, but it can appear the exact same and have the same effect. If you can't generally differentiate the two, then it makes no sense to differentiate them for the sake of defining what a personal attack is since the only difference is intent. (I suppose at some level, if *intentional* deception is part of your definition of a personal attack, then your rule is correct, but then it amounts to saying that if someone is trying to deceive you, then they're hiding their lack of a legitimate argument—which is basically a tautology)
+
+>are you suggesting that a person who insults someone has it in their mind that this is 'more effective' to change the other persons mind (than responding directly to an argument with proofs)?
+Yes, to a point. People are not perfectly rational, and someone else calling them an idiot is sometimes going affect how certain they are in their own argument, which might make them make mistakes or oversights. And, again, the issue is not whether it actually does have that effect; it's whether the person perceives it to have that effect on others, and some people do. It might also motivate someone else to join the discussion and concur with the person making the personal attacks, building consensus, which I think we can agree has a strong psychological effect on anyone who isn't perfectly rational.
+
+I'm also not arguing that it's more effective than using proofs; rather, in conjunction with using proofs it can be more effective than solely relying on proofs. Although some ad hominems might be more effective at convincing others to take a position than actual proof, i.e. calling your opponent a Jew might be more persuasive to Nazis than your well-reasoned argument.
+
+>incongruous also with your earlier statements where that person (who insults the other) is frustrated and has given up trying to change the other persons mind, or has had an emotional breakdown and flown into a temper
+Yes, I meant this as a new argument since the rudeness stuff is getting somewhat repetitive. Although, if someone is impolite by nature then they will have very little inhibition about using personal attacks to emphasize their point, even if they know their argument is perfectly strong without them.
+--- 21960768
+>>21954371 (OP)
+i dont know if I believe that they could craft a sculpture as they did and paint it how its claimed
+--- 21960779
+>>21960768
+chrysippus was one of my lazier attempts,this one is much better. And you're objectively correct; the paintings that survive in Pompeii don't resemble the gaudy high gloss paint that the statues are usually depicted as.
+--- 21960780
+>>21960759
+>someone else calling them an idiot is sometimes going affect how certain they are in their own argument, which might make them make mistakes or oversights
+Or make them more likely to be convinced by your argument. I guess that was implicit, but I feel the need to emphasize that *any* reduction in certainty will make someone easier to convince, whatever the source of it. If someone thinks that using personal attacks will achieve that reduction in certainty, then they will likely use personal attacks to gain an advantage. People might have irrational reasons to believe this to be the case, but that says nothing directly about their ability to prove their position on whatever is being debated.
+--- 21960814
+>>21954668
+>>21954668
+the guru might be right though independent of his weight.
+--- 21960841
+>>21960814
+If he lives by his own example, then he himself is a counterexample to his argument. Thus bringing up his weight is a legitimate argument. It doesn't mean he's wrong, since there could be another reason for him being fat, like maybe he was even fatter before becoming a vegetarian, but the point is that bringing up his weight is a legitimate way to address his argument because it pertains directly to what he's arguing.
+--- 21960917
+>>21960759
+>to a point.
+Then... I disagree. In that specific instance we go full circle back to the premise (the proposition in this topic), that: a person would only jump to verbal abuse 'if' they had no means by which to make an argument because in their own mind they wouldn't know why they held that position in order to be able to effectively articulate it to another people, so when can't make an argument and leap to attacks (or in this instance, also verbal abuse) it's because they're in the wrong.
+
+>I suppose at some level, if *intentional* deception is part of your definition of a personal attack, then your rule is correct, 
+That is what I'm saying yes - just not in the above paragraph where both pejorative 'and' deception can prove a lack of argument on the part of the attacker.
+
+>but then it amounts to saying that if someone is trying to deceive you, then they're hiding their lack of a legitimate argument—which is basically a tautology
+If someone is trying to deceive you it's because their actions, i.e. what they're doing/supporting in reality, they wish to conceal from you by offering up an alternate narrative to present (what they're doing/supporting) as if it were not that thing but something else. If they weren't ashamed/afraid of you knowing their actions/intentions then they'd be happy to explain what they were doing, or would not at least be making the effort to spin the deception. At the same time they wouldn't insult you; e.g. you: "hi, I see you're repairing the bridge, nice work, that's been needing to be done for ages, glad you're on it!" them: "fuck off you idiot!" 
+
+I mean, that scenario could occur,
+> People are not perfectly rational,
+if they were just crazy in that scenario. Even then, you'd wonder about their intentions solely because of the bad reaction they had.
+
+Or... in that specific scenario... they're angry and don't know why their officer has told them to repair the bridge, so they can't be happy about their work as they don't understand why they're doing it. 
+
+I'm getting a bit carried away with these hypotheticals lol
+
+> It might also motivate someone else to join the discussion and concur with the person making the personal attacks, building consensus, 
+Ah well, yes, then it would be a deception; seeking to influence, etc., in which case then the verbal abuse would count again under the same principle.
+
+>Yes, I meant this as a new argument since the rudeness stuff is getting somewhat repetitive.
+Haha, I think we've covered some good ground here anyway
+--- 21961044
+>>21960917
+>If they weren't ashamed/afraid of you knowing their actions/intentions then they'd be happy to explain what they were doing, or would not at least be making the effort to spin the deception.
+In an ideal world, yes, but this circles back to some people just being assholes, particularly over the internet, even if they do have legitimate arguments and don't care about deceiving someone. Or they think you're stupid for not following their reasoning and don't want to argue with someone whom they think is stupid, so they just call you stupid and move on the same way you might with some excessively obstinate schizophrenic, or their daddy beat them this morning, etc.
+
+>Ah well, yes, then it would be a deception; seeking to influence, etc., in which case then the verbal abuse would count again under the same principle.
+I don't know what you mean. Here I am talking about an explicit deception (at least, in a very broad sense), but one being used by someone who believes that it will help win an argument more easily than if he only uses facts. You see this a lot on political issues, where people appeal based on ideological grounds by identifying someone as a common enemy (i.e. communist, tranny, Nazi), since that label will often have just as much (if not more) influence as them stating their entire argument for their political position, which is a time consuming procedure for which most people don't have the patience or time. It doesn't mean that they know their underlying political views are false or unsubstantiated; they just view the use of a pejorative to be a more effective way of establishing consensus (which is often the goal of rhetoric, even under ideal circumstances like a courtroom). 
+
+Besides consensus building, I do think that using pejoratives can be useful under select circumstances even in convincing someone that their own position is wrong. For instance, if you perceive that someone lacks knowledge about a particular subject, then calling them ignorant and stupid will make them self-conscious that they might lack the experience in the subject to know what they're talking about. If I see someone giving off obvious indicators of inexperience within a given field making a coherent and accurate argument, then I will often personally attack them rather than only addressing their argument since I assume it will make them feel insecure and question their own judgment, however accurate that judgment actually is. This can resolve an argument much faster than arguing without any personal attacks, and resolving an argument quickly is generally preferable.
+--- 21961387
+>>21961044
+>don't want to argue with someone whom they think is stupid,
+> You see this a lot on political issues, 
+This is a good point... I mean, if the reasoning is correct; that either side are unable or unwilling to convince then it means that either side have no idea why they hold the positions that they do. The presumption of stupidity, then, is more a self-defensive mechanism (a narrative of self-deception) as to their own baselessness on the issues, i.e. ignorance that they don't really know why they're in this camp or shouting down the other party - only to be baffled when asked to not to do this; to explain their own sides policy rather than make-up bad things about the other side.
+
+That's especially evidenced in the political debates in the last century, where the more away from positive cases and onto propaganda campaigns (character attacks, negative association on the opposition) became more common. 
+
+I mean, I wouldn't put much rationality onto people like that; certianly not in the sense you're describing, tht they secretly do understand their party political position on every issue (and can articulate it perfectly) but don't think anyone else is capable of understanding or that it's more convincing to the opposition candidate or the voters to accuse the other side of being [negative association]. 
+
+> If I see someone giving off obvious indicators of inexperience within a given field making a coherent and accurate argument, then I will often personally attack them rather than only addressing their argument since I assume it will make them feel insecure and question their own judgment, 
+This is known to be false though; the persecution complex, etc., has been known about for millenia when people feed off negative attention and utilize it, like in a political context to be met with abuse only reinforces the delusion of the abusee (esp. if the abuse is anonymous) as it reinforces the persecution complex and allows them to pretend that [x conspiracy] is alive and well and targeting them because they're right.
+
+On that level you suggest, to think it convinces them, that's just wrong and the opposite effect can be shown; especially, again, in the political contexts where enmity and affirmation of persecution by the opposition is the key rallying points for both sides.
+
+Again, though, it's the object we're seeking that we use to judge the effectiveness of something like that; if the person (in that political scenario) has the object of resolution of a thing then they will engage with the issue directly,if they have some other object then they'll be doing things that don't involve dealing with the issue directly.
+
+i gtg again :)
+--- 21961458
+>>21961387
+>I mean, I wouldn't put much rationality onto people like that; certianly not in the sense you're describing, tht they secretly do understand their party political position on every issue (and can articulate it perfectly) but don't think anyone else is capable of understanding or that it's more convincing to the opposition candidate or the voters to accuse the other side of being [negative association].
+I disagree. I think that in certain contexts where time is limited, citing the Enemy is a much more effective use of time than babbling on about tax policy. And, simply put, demagoguery works; voters will respond to it and often feel better connected to a candidate who seems like an honest hot-head than the effete ivy-educated goblin with a nasally drone. If your goal as a candidate is to make an impression with one minute of allotted TV time, then do you talk about how your opponent is an evil MAGA Republican, or how his proposed tax cuts will disproportionately favor the upper class? 
+
+This is particularly true in party primaries, since all candidates can generally agree on what's Good and Bad, and a candidate who establishes himself as hating Bad the most and loving Good the most is going to have a much easier time than the candidate who, for instance, proposes an innovative prison reform bill. 
+
+And yes, I do agree that the best strategy for an extremely intelligent, knowledge, and charismatic speaker would be to play as straight up as possible, but such individuals are few and far between and the sort of signaling that I describe is an easy way to score some points for someone who might have a strong position, but know he probably won't be able to convince enough people of it with honest argumentation, even if his position is quite strong and would hold up well in an arbitrarily long debate.
+
+>This is known to be false though; the persecution complex, etc., has been known about for millenia when people feed off negative attention and utilize it
+I don't think that this is universally true. The persecution complex and such are really exceptions to the general rule that people will tend to conform to what they perceive to be the popular/established version of the truth(tm). Some people will be energized by attacks, but other people will be upset and anxious about them—particularly if they're insecure about their argument to begin with. In a political context it's as much about people feeding off of being in a special group, and they will generally conform to the group's viewpoint (although since fringe groups self-select for fringe individuals, they're obviously not very stable). A respected person within that group calling them a retard would make them reevaluate whether their position conforms with the group, which could lead to them changing their opinion to conform or leaving the group altogether.
+--- 21961495
+>>21961387
+More to my point, consider someone who hasn't read a novel very well (or at all) nonetheless puts forward a decent take on a novel, but makes a few oversights/errors which I catch and recognize to indicate that he lacks familiarity with the novel. Suppose I have a stronger position but don't feel like sitting around for awhile arguing with him. If I want to convince that person that he is wrong, then by personally attacking him I (might) make him believe that his knowledge of the novel is too poor to even consider debating the subject seriously, prompting him to resign from the debate and likely assume my position was correct. Had I just corrected/ignored the mistakes then he would have carried on in a normal argument and it would probably take much longer to convince him of anything.
+
+If someone is confident in their own knowledge/position, then obviously this won't work and if anything will be harmful for your chances of winning, but that's not going to be the case for every debate; even debates where both sides have strong arguments and could easily go back and forth on an issue for hours. Now, confidence and ability are certainly correlated, but an intelligent person with little experience in something might be very unconfident in their ability to debate the subject, and yet still be able to make the inferences and deductions needed to argue at a level significantly above their prior knowledge while a debate is ongoing. Insulting such a person forces them to immediately reckon with whether their position is strong (something which they know they might not be qualified to accurately judge), without giving them time to acclimate to the subject or acquire new information from external sources or other people in the debate.
+
+That doesn't necessarily mean the person doing the insulting is intentionally avoiding a fair debate because they know they'll lose; they might be avoiding it simply out of not wanting to get bogged down in the details of a back-and-forth when they believe they can simply strong-arm their opponent out of the debate with very little effort expended.

lit/21954421.txt

@@ -66,3 +66,41 @@ It's a dismal narcissistic outlook and he describes LITERALLY every phil topic h
 >>21954421 (OP)
 >teacher tells me this book changed his life
 >worked at olive garden after school
+--- 21957951
+>>21956757
+>he describes LITERALLY every phil topic he brings up incorrectly.
+Give one example please. I'm not saying you are wrong, just curious.
+--- 21958584
+>>21954542
+For the longest time I thought everyone was just in on some very elaborate meme pretending this was a good book. I thought it was extra impressive because even the normies were in on it. Fucked me up when I realized some people were actually serious, although to be honest I still sometimes doubt it. I'm half convinced they're just extremely committed to the bit.
+--- 21958613
+>>21954431
+Oh yeah brah let’s smoke some weed brah
+--- 21958872
+>>21957519
+>haha bro look at that guy with a second job he knows nothing about life
+
+Yeah bro I said the same thing about Diogenes haha what a loser
+--- 21958878
+>>21958584
+It’s a great book, you’re just a conceited retard.
+--- 21958880
+>>21958878
+>it’s a great book
+HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
+--- 21959125
+>>21958880
+lol I hurt you
+--- 21959192
+>>21959125
+Don’t bother with the halfwit. There are two camps of people when approaching this book: those who understand and have undergone a significant catharsis, and those who haven’t an iota of what the hell he experienced and is conveying. Halfwit falls into the latter and no matter what he will upbraid anyone who likes anything he can’t comprehend and is completely flummoxed by this fact so they write long winded diatribes and type in all caps like a simian.
+--- 21959207
+>>21954706
+Elaborate?
+--- 21959214
+>>21959192
+>>21959125
+Holy retardation. Why are the morons who defend this book such insufferable gits
+--- 21960636
+>>21958613
+I don't know brah. I feel like engaging this kind of deep material while high on anything but life is like putting on water wings on top of your scuba gear you know. Its just going to like, get in the way of you exploring its depths you know?

lit/21954916.txt

@@ -196,3 +196,95 @@ still not taking it, the vaxx that is, not the hemlock either.
 --- 21956935
 >>21956763
 Sophists are just lawyers using rhetorical tricks to win court cases and Socrates was aimed at higher truths and honest debate
+--- 21958218
+>>21956737
+If you don’t know you should return to the big r
+--- 21958327
+>>21955231
+the fact that he coached wittgenstein makes him influential
+--- 21958332
+>>21955068
+Because everything Reddit touch turns to cringe
+
+It's that awards system, that up vote, unlike us, they do it only to cater to "them", to people who have cannibalism party, to people who love is depopulation, to people who hates human beings.
+Sick.
+--- 21958371
+>>21956487
+high effort poster have a (you)
+
+which cluster of influential people should an online community be built around though?
+--- 21958408
+>>21956426
+>>21956487
+pretty compelling take imo
+--- 21958410
+>>21958371
+discord
+--- 21958418
+>>21958410
+Idiscord might be the worst. Conversations are short, dependent on who’s looking at the moment as the conversation leaves fast and nobody types more than a sentences 95% of the time
+--- 21958427
+>>21954916 (OP)
+>>>/his/
+
+look anon I don't want to sound rude, but take this shit to /his/ please. keep the /lit/ board for literature only
+--- 21958620
+>>21958427
+All his talks about is wwII
+--- 21958624
+>>21954916 (OP)
+>>21954916 (OP)
+His history of philosophy it's quite average, plus he mostly try to assess philosophers to his like, and help to mislead academy towards certain non philosophical authors.
+--- 21958637
+>>21958620
+A big part of his is weird religious threads these days.
+--- 21958655
+>>21958637
+Mods used to ban religious threads
+--- 21959004
+>>21954916 (OP)
+He is right nevertheless
+--- 21959007
+>>21954916 (OP)
+>Sparta is just like Nazi Germany
+>2. Plato is a Nazi
+Yes.
+--- 21959015
+>>21958620
+>>21958637
+>>21958655
+here anon, now you don't need to go back to /his/. we can all coexist together 
+>>21958809 →
+--- 21959520
+>>21954916 (OP)
+Entertaining as it is, that book was fucking atrocious at times and wildly inaccurate. His roast of Shitzsche was pretty fucking funny though.
+--- 21959618
+>>21959520
+I’m about 1/3rd through and I find it entertaining but veering from insightful to cringe blog tier analysis.
+
+Idk how he got away with having a career after about 1915
+--- 21959677
+>>21956935
+>Socrates good because Plato said so through Socrates
+Lmao, even
+--- 21959990
+>>21959677
+There are other sources for Socrates but Russell acknowledges Socrates may be a character in Plato or may not be
+--- 21960038
+>>21954916 (OP)
+I hate this British dumb fuck
+He represents everything I hate about the Anglo-Saxon
+--- 21960313
+>>21959520
+It's something you should read not to learn about the history of philosophy, but to learn how poor and uncharitable a reader Russell was.
+--- 21960332
+>>21954958
+Sparta made the mistake of assuming women were actually capable of acting independently without heavy restrictions on their power and wealth
+--- 21960333
+>>21959520
+>His roast of Shitzsche was pretty fucking funny though.
+Friedrich the Filter
+--- 21960731
+>>21954916 (OP)
+>1. Sparta is just like Nazi Germany
+Doesn't Curtis Yarvin make the same comparison? You probably jerk off that twit.

lit/21955008.txt

@@ -52,3 +52,144 @@ anon's wife turns his gaming room into shitty wine bar
 --- 21957773
 >>21955008 (OP)
 >>>/pol/
+--- 21959561
+>>21955121
+This is funny, but what's not funny about that is that I can perfectly imagine myself in the same kind of situation...
+--- 21959589
+>>21955160
+Based
+--- 21959653
+>>21955238
+shut up!
+--- 21959667
+>>21955008 (OP)
+--- 21959728
+>>21959667
+>Emily Wilson, a classical studies professor at the University of Pennsylvania, set herself a challenging task — to translate Homer’s Odyssey into modern English in lines of iambic pentameter.
+
+>To complicate things, she also decided to produce a translation that was the same length as the original, same number of lines per book and same number for the whole poem. She explains:
+
+ >> I chose to write within this difficult constraint because any translations without such limitations will tend to be longer than the original, and I wanted a narrative pace that could match its stride to Homer’s nimble gallop.
+
+>Wilson notes that the original “reads nothing like prose and nothing like any spoken or nonpoetic kinds of discourse.” Neither does it read like free verse, the approach used by most modern translators who, she writes, don’t attempt to create a regular line beat. That, to her mind, is wrongheaded.
+
+So she somehow produces a translation that lacks all poetic beauty and soul?
+I have no words to describe this feeling.
+--- 21959757
+>>21959728
+AWFLs ruining things; what a shocker.
+--- 21959775
+>>21959757
+>AWFLs
+?
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KwXszqxZko [Embed]
+peak primary school teacher storytime vibe.
+--- 21959856
+>>21959775
+the reviews are curious, mostly women who felt empowered somehow by female translator, the comment sections seem oddly pruned of negative comments
+--- 21959905
+>>21955143
+--- 21959940
+>>21955325
+Kek
+--- 21960087
+>>21959728
+I really don't hate it, I really don't. It's certainly not my favourite, but I don't hate it. Any translation Rieu and after works for me. I prefer Fagles and Lattimore, but I really don't hate Wilson. What do I not get?
+--- 21960090
+>>21955008 (OP)
+--- 21960094
+>>21960087
+>What do I not get?
+A taste.
+--- 21960102
+>>21960094
+If a Michelin-star chef enjoys haute cuisine and McDonald's, do they not have taste?
+--- 21960109
+.
+--- 21960122
+pol IDpol thread?
+That's not literature
+--- 21960142
+>>21960104
+>>21960107
+>>21960109
+ok now tell us what these have to do with literature
+--- 21960146
+>>21960087
+It's not necessarily bad but it's lacking
+The whole "first female translation" spin makes it over represented.
+--- 21960149
+>>21960142
+Andrew Roberts is the author of pic rel. It's there in the blue bar (historian and author).
+--- 21960158
+>>21960109
+Who is the joaquin guy?
+--- 21960163
+oh my science
+--- 21960165
+>>21959667
+>>21959728
+it reads like she wrote a prose and then hit the enter key every few words to get the same line count as homer
+--- 21960166
+>>21960158
+the jew actor playing napoleon
+--- 21960170
+>>21960149
+ok so that's the lit part, now tell me where's the humor
+--- 21960177
+>>21960163
+--- 21960185
+>>21960170
+>I'm retarded! Spoon feed me, please!
+Fuck off, if you can't the the absolute joke in that, you're hopeless.
+--- 21960192
+>>21960185
+>thinking that was a literal question
+just go back to pol
+--- 21960205
+>>21960192
+why are you so upset and faggy? lol women tier energy
+--- 21960212
+>>21955008 (OP)
+You know what would be funny? If you killed yourself.
+--- 21960620
+>>21960087
+Its really just that infamously undersold, modernized opening line that hurts Wilson. It's not a bad experiment to retranslate Homer more narrowly, but it reads so horribly modern and affected that its hard to shake the first impression of a stupid cunt writing a blogpost.
+--- 21961001
+>>21956174
+think this is from Eggplant
+--- 21961174
+>>21959561
+same
+--- 21961892
+>>21961174
+--- 21961928
+>>21955349
+Easily the greatest post on this board.
+--- 21961955
+>>21955349
+This threadshot made me read The Screwtape Letters and I loved it.
+--- 21961984
+>>21955056
+>bangin' hot Sophia
+lmao
+>>21955056
+this one is incredibly based
+>>21955121
+obviously didnt happen, its liek something that would happen in one of those awkward comedy shows like peep show.
+>>21955325
+it's based because "dynamic tension" is actually not a bad descrition of pynchons writing style.
+>>21955369
+lmao
+>>21955349
+never read the screwtape letters is this post still worth reading?
+
+>>21956178
+lmao
+>>21957467
+best so far
+>>21960163
+what a dingus
+
+decent thread... we all need a bit of levity every now and again.

lit/21955676.txt

@@ -131,3 +131,63 @@ Artstyle is kino, but I would've preferred if the pictures weren't so small, if
 Good, but the worst out of the collection, the image isn't nearly vibrant enough to warrant it taking up the whole cover and (although that's personal) I don't like the artstyle at all
 >>21956246
 Only slightly better than the one before, classic arch frame lends itself beautifully to small pictures, but it's also a bit bland and very obviously the uninspired safe options, really dislike the colors on this one too
+--- 21958560
+>>21957075
+>first thing in the morning, read this post
+>already angry
+--- 21960167
+When it is something beautiful enough that it would work as a wallpaper or something I'd hang up on the wall.
+If they aren't putting in the work to make it beautiful like that then my bookshelf looks better with a binding that looks strong and/or well crafted
+Most of the time the best looking cover is one that just does the job and isn't flashy.
+--- 21960488
+it's stupid kike publishers
+--- 21960978
+>>21955676 (OP)
+2 and 3 aren't bad
+1 probably wouldn't look as bad if it had more appropriate cover art
+5 looks like some generic romance novel
+4 looks really trashy and therefore it's the best one
+--- 21961007
+someone please help, I cant stop using AI to generate book covers for my stories. I have 24 different covers for a piece of flash fiction I wrote.
+--- 21961325
+>>21955676 (OP)
+Videogame example, but it demonstrates the same point:
+A mediocre cover just does its job at reflecting the ideas of the material contained within it.
+A good cover is one which is a work of art in and of itself.
+A bad cover, on the other hand, is one that was designed with the only purpose of attracting attention to sell.
+--- 21961347
+>>21961007
+There's a tree growing out from inside the van.
+That bird doesn't look like a bird at all. 
+The shadow of the moon is not realistic.
+The trees at the back of the image weren't materialised completely.
+But nice color palette.
+--- 21961353
+>>21955676 (OP)
+1- Too retarded, looks like movie poster
+2- It's so simple that I don't have an opinion about it.
+3- Looks like generic YA 
+4- Looks like horrible YA. Too much shit going on.
+5- Ellegant and classy. My favourite form the five. I would remove those white dots on the bottom. 
+
+5>2>3>4=1
+--- 21961377
+>>21955676 (OP)
+Wow that's a lot of new york times bestsellers in that pic!
+--- 21961447
+>>21955676 (OP)
+>legibility
+>contrast
+
+Good:
+>>21956236
+>>21957075
+>>21960167
+
+
+This is selling the Author and not the Book
+>>21956246
+
+>>21956846
+>nepotism photograph rights rehash
+Only if it's cheaper

lit/21955882.txt

@@ -127,3 +127,79 @@ chug creampie cucklord
 >>21957248
 >all individual cultures
 Those are very overrated. There's one culture, the Western one, and countless regional varieties of food and folk dance.
+--- 21958721
+>>21957248
+>There will always be conflict because groups want to look after their own interests first, there will always be proxy wars.
+The point is that if one group is strong enough that (a) their interest becomes ensuring world peace everywhere and (b) they're strong enough to destroy any group which seeks to disrupt the system, then there won't be any conflict since it will be in everyone's interest not to challenge the status quo since they'd be destroyed or disrupt their own interests. Individual cultures can still be preserved in such a system, and they might even compete with one another, i.e. on the free market, but they won't be killing each other.
+--- 21958747
+>>21955882 (OP)
+>America is.... le bad
+--- 21959071
+>>21957433
+Easy and correct position to make. US is bad. 
+When do we get our America back? 
+
+>>21957560
+What about him being of jewish ancestry, anon? Explain what you mean by bringing this up.
+--- 21959794
+>>21957324
+Sure. But stable oppression is still stability.
+--- 21959831
+>>21958721
+>Individual cultures can still be preserved in such a system, and they might even compete with one another, i.e. on the free market
+come on. cultures competing in the free market? what are you on about? economies compete in the market, not cultures. cultures are either preserved or changed/replaced. It's clear that American culture has taken over in a lot of places around the world - but you'd be naturally blind to it if you're American.
+> it will be in everyone's interest not to challenge the status quo since they'd be destroyed
+That's not interest, properly saying. They'd be still interested in the outcome, but unable to act on it.
+--- 21959866
+>>21958747
+This but unironically
+--- 21959879
+>>21959071
+When you change the wording on the constitution from the corporate ALL_CAPS_NAMES and swap the of with for like it used to be
+--- 21959918
+>>21955882 (OP)
+>there is only one party, the business party
+>mmmmhhh vote biden anyway
+--- 21960050
+>>21955882 (OP)
+American education system is a joke he is just one if the abusers
+--- 21960303
+>>21955921
+A goblin.
+--- 21960454
+>>21957002
+>chomsky is a pathetic eichmann who can look forward to eternities of barbed penises eyeing his astral anus for all time
+Ok, I will now read your book. Why didn't you lead with that thought when you started shilling it months ago?
+--- 21960478
+>>21955882 (OP)
+>writes intro for a book about holocaust denial to make a stand for freedom of speech 
+>...a few years later...
+>goes on the record about how big tech and the government need to censor online speech and communication
+"You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become a villian."
+--- 21960491
+>>21955921
+Gnomes are real.
+--- 21960562
+he cowrote a decent article btfoing chatgpt recently so it seems he's still got it
+--- 21960612
+>>21957098
+Kek. Care to share some?
+--- 21960618
+I dont line the states but it isnt *that* bad , on the other hand, Israel is the incarnation of all the evil in the world.
+--- 21960674
+even chomsky fans have to reckon with the fact that if you hit 95 as a "political dissident" youre pushing some weak shit
+--- 21960716
+>>21960674
+There's a good reason why anarchists are all either university professors or university students
+--- 21961645
+The only thing close to good to come from Chomsky or sanders is the myth of consent, you just have to replace their conclusions with what is the actual intent of that system.
+--- 21961756
+>>21956519
+He has literally spent his life arguing that intellectuals need to question powerful interests. He outlines this most clearly in his essay "The Responsibility of Intellectuals". He is one of the few public intellectuals who actually fulfils this responsibility and has been for decades. His philosophy is utterly antithetical in every way to powerful interests. And in what way is he "massively platformed/pushed"? The mainstream media do everything they can to stifle him; he happens to be so devoted to the cause that he does everything he can to make his voice heard. Antisemitism is a spiritual illness—seek help.
+--- 21961782
+>seething rigthoids over his jewishness and subversiveness and seething leftoids over his lack of whatever particular moral purity test they take to be the most important in an alliance of cope
+5th most cited scholar of all time.
+--- 21961824
+>>21961782
+>seething libtards over his lack of Ukraine support
+Who is his audience in 2023?

lit/21955978.txt

@@ -68,3 +68,29 @@ that is some 1st grade ass thinking retard
 --- 21957741
 >>21957159
 Groypette
+--- 21958180
+>>21956039
+Real, true, factual. Loved the first part, completely repulsed by the last sixty pages for some reason, but it does portray what my femcel friends told me about their lives really well.
+--- 21959439
+>>21956250
+pic
+>>21957486
+yes and it's correct. 
+Years ago i've said to a girl: "it's easy for women, you can fuck almost whenever you want" and she replied "it would be just as easy for you, offer your ass and you will see that someone who fucks you appears"
+--- 21959849
+>>21957372
+Oh, she doesn't need saving
+--- 21960069
+>>21955978 (OP)
+just don't be obese and obnoxious
+maybe
+--- 21960331
+>>21958180
+>Loved the first part, completely repulsed by the last sixty pages
+Don't read Earthlings.
+--- 21960341
+>>21955978 (OP)
+Mad Shadows. It even has allusions to fairytales.
+--- 21960512
+>>21955978 (OP)
+no such thing as femcel

lit/21956004.txt

@@ -99,3 +99,82 @@ I've only read the first book, Grossman translation. I chuckked a few times but
 >>21956507
 The book has some archaisms, but any decent reader from Spanish-speaking background can understand it. Spanish hasn't changed that much from the 1600s, and the main differences are from grammar rules that the new editions have corrected, so it's not that bad. However, for a person learning the language, it can be tiresome, because it has a very "decorated" prose
 >t. Spanish speaker
+--- 21958274
+>>21957111
+It's a book you can pick up and read until you are bored, the first 80 pages or so was originally a novella. Lots of good stuff in the beginning.
+--- 21958287
+>>21956004 (OP)
+>>21956278
+>>21956425
+>when they all sit in the inn and tell each other cucking stories
+kino
+--- 21958295
+>>21956447
+>Marcela was a surprisingly fascinating turn. 
+Not to be gay, but her speech is an interestingly modern take on consent and self-determination. The novel is very modern in many ways, including the formal playfulness. Feels like all the postmodern narrative "innovations" have already been checked off by based Cervantes.
+--- 21958302
+>>21957093
+>what's the best translation?
+the one Cervantes did from Cide Hamete Benengeli
+--- 21958447
+If you have the Rutherford penguin edition, watch out for the 8th footnote, where it explains what "Don" means. They felt the need to reveal part of the ending within the first few pages of the book.
+--- 21958457
+>>21956004 (OP)
+>mentions the windmills
+Not even remotely funny compared to other superior scenes 
+>the cave
+>the fight at the inn
+>all the mentions of the fake DQ part 2
+--- 21958463
+>>21958295
+Was Marcela the first girl-boss in literature? Or was she a femcel?
+--- 21958490
+>>21958463
+female volcel
+--- 21958570
+>>21958463
+Definitely a femcel
+--- 21958636
+>>21958457
+sancho shitting in the dark
+--- 21958641
+>>21958447
+>where it explains what "Don" means.
+isn't it just his name?
+--- 21958668
+>>21958641
+No it's only for nobility, like sir in Angloid lands.
+--- 21959306
+>>21956004 (OP)
+>>21956456
+How fluent do you have to be to read this in spanish and fully enjoy it? Is there a test one could take? Or some books I should read first to make sure I'm at that level? I'm "fluent" but only for every day conversation. I speak Spanish once a week with my parents
+--- 21959346
+>>21959306
+I think they have versions in Spanish that are more accessible. They even have some dual language Spanish/English versions. 
+The tricky parts if not softened up would be when Quixote speaks, as he speaks with chivilrous flourishes which would be hard to figure out.
+--- 21959923
+>>21958302
+How meta is this book exactly? 
+And did Cervantes die a rich man?
+--- 21961277
+>>21958463
+She was a NEET.
+--- 21961288
+>>21956456
+>parces
+The problem is you are learning spanish with caribean subhumans. Attach yourself to Spain and the Southern Cone.
+--- 21961323
+>>21959306
+I've heard it described as the same difficulty as contemporary English speakers trying to read Shakespeare or the King James Bible. Probably going to be pretty difficult for a second language speakers.
+--- 21961329
+>>21956004 (OP)
+Ruined books for me. Can't enjoy anything else.
+--- 21961338
+>>21961329
+So you don't like reading? Cool.
+--- 21961345
+>>21956004 (OP)
+first 400 pages were great. falls off after that.
+--- 21961658
+>>21958447
+They spoil it in the intro in both Rutherford and Grossman too. What's the fucking point of an intro to a novel if it spoils the ending? Save that shit for an essay at the end.

lit/21956019.txt

@@ -23,3 +23,31 @@ what would be some good companion literature?
 --- 21957706
 >>21956019 (OP)
 Taught me that Roman slaves got baptized into a gens--they became gentiles. Along comes a religion to make them Jews the same way...
+--- 21958542
+>>21957637
+
+These are all good books but you don’t have read them all at once.
+
+E.R. Dodds' The Greeks and the Irrational.
+
+The Final Pagan Generation by Edward J. Watts;
+
+Ancient Mystery Cults by Walter Burket
+
+Greek Religion by Walter Burket
+
+Babylon, Memphis, Persepolis: Eastern Contexts of Greek Culture by Walter Burket
+
+Smoke Signals for the Gods: Ancient Greek Sacrifice from the Archaic Through Roman Periods Fred Naiden
+--- 21959994
+>>21958542
+
+Not him but thanks for the list.
+I could only add The Homeric Gods by Walter F. Otto. Equally dubious scholarship but equally interesting book.
+--- 21960874
+>>21957580
+Is the scholarship out of date when it comes to his thesis or simply the evidence and knowledge he has and presents (i.e., does the thesis still hold up).
+--- 21961375
+>>21956019 (OP)
+I liked it, rather general and broad in its claims, but worth reading.
+pic unrelated

lit/21956061.txt

@@ -173,3 +173,141 @@ why would you choose to write in a worse way, it's no different than faggots who
 --- 21957846
 >>21957342
 I'm Canadian, and Canadian men are extremely cucked. Funny how the only couple of guys in our crew that DID read were the alcoholic drug user roughnecks! The "normal" labourers only snowboarded, smoked weed, and played video games.
+--- 21958753
+>>21957838
+>in using computers writers are flirting with a radical separation of mind and body, the elimination of the work of the body from the work of the mind. The text on the computer screen, and the computer printout too, has a sterile, untouched, factorymade look, like that of a plastic whistle or a new car. The body does not do work like that. The body characterizes everything it touches. What it makes it traces over with the marks of its pulses and breathings, its excitements, hesitations, flaws, and mistakes. On its good work, it leaves the marks of skill, care, and love persisting through hesitations, flaws, and mistakes. And to those of us who love and honor the life of the body in this world, these marks are precious things, necessities of life.
+--- 21958816
+>>21956061 (OP)
+Sounds fun. Do you have a specific day you plan to put out the end-of-challenge thread?
+
+I don't know what I'm going to write yet, but I'm starting a new job in May and this sounds like a perfect thing to do during lunch.
+--- 21958844
+>>21956977
+>>21956997
+You two wait for each other when you stroke each other off? Or is awkward when one of you gets there early?
+--- 21958916
+>>21956061 (OP)
+I'm legitimately going to do this. Can someone make a thread at the start of May?
+--- 21958926
+>>21958916
+Make the thread yourself. Be the change you want to see in the world.
+--- 21959040
+>>21956260
+based
+--- 21959095
+ok
+--- 21959101
+I guess I'll try it
+--- 21959292
+>>21957838
+>write in a worse way
+this phrase does not make any sense. In what way is pen and paper 'worse'? Can you define exactly what is 'worse' about this method that makes it worthless to do over some other method? Define exactly what the fuck it is you're trying to say with this statement and ill give you a good-faith reply. As it stands it is too vague for me to accurately respond to.
+--- 21959344
+>>21956061 (OP)
+>Spiralbound
+im lefthanded and the spiral fucks up my writing and pisses me off the entire time. Too distracting. Same with bic pens, ballpoints are meant to be pulled by righthanded people not pulled by lefthanded, so ill be using a different pen as well. Ill go buy a threadbound notebook and report back on Monday.
+--- 21959443
+>>21958816
+>>21958916
+I've got alerts on the calendar to make update threads. On the 1st I'll make an all call thread to begin the challenge. Toying with maybe making a Telegram group but not sure if I can trust people to not be vile.
+--- 21959450
+>>21959344
+A basic composition notebook is acceptable anon.
+--- 21959664
+>>21956061 (OP)
+this sounds fun. just went to the dollar store and spent $3. ive been reading a lot of short stories and novellas as of late which will serve as my writing inspiration. i hope to get some decent ideas onto paper out of this
+--- 21959668
+>>21959664
+forgot image
+--- 21959682
+>>21959664
+Good on you anon! I hope you enjoy the challenge!
+--- 21959699
+https://t.me/+STK_wPHafkhhM2Fh
+
+Here is the telegram group. This is where challenge updates will be first. If it gets too autistic I may nuke the channel though.
+--- 21959915
+>>21956220
+>>21956977
+>imagine being so weak that a single (1) comment on an incel anime forum flips your shit
+--- 21959943
+>>21956061 (OP)
+You're never going to be a writer. Nobody is going to read your shit.
+
+kill yourself loser.
+--- 21960035
+Wish I could join in but I got an assignment due on the 2nd and haven't done shit yet.
+>>21959943
+(you)
+--- 21960042
+>>21957846
+I mean I do work in an industry where the average recruitment age is 35 and nobody trust you until they discover your damage. But yeah, reading is a survival technique for the mind. I guess you don't need it until your first possession with intent gaol term, or your second divorce.
+--- 21960518
+>>21959943
+I wrote this post. You read it.
+
+Live your life winner.
+--- 21960647
+I’m going to stop by my local Dollar General after my shift and buy a notebook. My handwriting is ass and this will probably help me improve it.
+
+As for the story I will be writing the first proper draft of a novel i’ve been working on for some time now. It is loosely based off of The Fable of The Pearl (Which I found interesting even though I am not a gnostic) and will follow a lonely doomer as he takes part in a student protest in Portland which turns into a deadly siege. He will get caught up in the mud of the protests and faggot politics and will eventually return to the small town he comes from and ultimately become one of Kierkegaard’s Knights of Faith.
+--- 21960701
+Someone fucking post something already
+--- 21960778
+>>21960701
+It isn't even May yet
+--- 21960879
+>>21960647
+Holy based. Can't wait to hear more about it. Join the telegram if you wanna chat us up.
+--- 21961079
+>>21960879
+Wish I had twitter brother, I guess we will just have to wait until June and I will show you guys what I have done.
+--- 21961141
+>>21956061 (OP)
+I'm just gonna write a buch of made up folk stories and fairy tales that are like 1 or 2 pages long.
+This sounds interesting though
+--- 21961394
+>>21957361
+You need a better pen, sincerely. Then you'll be able to practice cursive long enough to actually write it quickly.
+--- 21961411
+>>21961394
+Thanks amazon shill but what I actually need to write faster is a fat fucking 15 inch dildo up my ass shipping now available to arrive tomorrow by 4-8AM by airshipping by drone in the next 10 minutes. Nigger
+--- 21961466
+>>21961411
+Or you could go to a thrift store and buy a used fountain pen to fix up. Your fucking brain is so poisoned by modernity that you couldn't just take helpful advice, you had to scree about how proud you are to give yourself wrist pain by projecting your addiction to mass market consumption.
+--- 21961490
+>>21961466
+Nooo not the thrift store, i m too embarassed to enema at the thrift store witha 17 inch dildo in my ass. Nigger
+--- 21961530
+>>21961394
+thanks, I already have a fountain pen, but maybe I should get a better one
+nta
+>>21961411
+>>21961490
+--- 21961534
+>>21959344
+Can't you, uuhh, flip the spiral block to the other side and start from there?
+--- 21961580
+>>21961530
+Hmm, maybe you're just habitually pressing too hard? Been there though, with the writing pain, it sucks. Good luck finding a solution/avoiding needing to write.
+--- 21961618
+>>21961580
+>you're just habitually pressing too hard? Been there though
+It means your craving a 19 inch dildo. Put more pressure on the sphincter to decrease tension in the wrists! Nigger
+--- 21961731
+>>21956061 (OP)
+After my laptop gray-screened in 2021, I reverted to writing exclusively on legal notepads. I have slowly transitioned back to a hybrid of word processor and legal pad (word processor is when the ideas and words are flowing and I want to get a page or two down in ten minutes). Writing on the legal pad is what I do when I'm first feeling out ideas and putting down short exchanges and descriptions that pop into my head.
+I appreciate the concept of this thread, though.
+--- 21961932
+>>21956061 (OP)
+>bic pen
+Go for a uniball signo. Bics are horrible for long sessions of writing.
+--- 21961972
+>>21956061 (OP)
+Ok I will participate. I will write brief reviews of the books I read recently. But I'll be using a Lamy Safari with black ink.
+--- 21961979
+>>21956061 (OP)
+I'll participate since I actually want to work on my short story writing and my poetry writing. Can I use a gel pen though, or do I have to use a bic pen?
+--- 21961983
+Maybe this will fix my zoomer brain. I am seriously unable to express myself in a coherent manner.
+Will try to write short stories which will probably end up as hot garbage. But only way to improve is to face it head on.

lit/21956315.txt

@@ -109,3 +109,91 @@ His style just rubbed off on her. I hate you incels so much.
 --- 21957859
 >>21957854
 The funny thing is that "she" is more popular in the US than in Italy. In any case, there were also some Spanish guys who wrote a novel together and used a female pseudonym. They won't a prize and everyone was seething because they thought the author was actually a woman. I think the name was Carmen Mola.
+--- 21957860
+>>21957857
+Facts:
+- 98%
+- YWNBAW
+--- 21957866
+>>21957859
+>They won't
+They won*
+--- 21957875
+Reminder that these same tests think Joyce is six different people
+--- 21957876
+>>21957875
+source? he was a literal schizo so I can see that
+--- 21957997
+None of us have a stake in whether the author is male or female. What's the value in this knowledge?
+--- 21958311
+>>21957997
+Whether or not I will read the book. I only read women if they're saints or it's literally the only book available in a very niche topic or by accident in translation.
+--- 21958317
+>>21957844
+Shows how much of discourse is just thin air, with no content whatsoever. If this doesn't make one feel claustrophobic then idk what to say.
+--- 21958401
+>>21957997
+Let people enjoy things
+--- 21959002
+>>21957997
+>the truth only matters if I have "stakes"
+--- 21959023
+>>21958401
+That is what anon is saying.
+--- 21959028
+>>21959023
+ywnbaw
+--- 21959037
+>>21956315 (OP)
+Anyone who has read both Ferrante and Domenico understands there's a clear quality gap between the publications. Ferrante's stories are way better. It's likely that Domenico is editing his wife's works but they aren't his stories.
+--- 21959058
+>>21959037
+In the academic paper they mention he might be working along his wife but the similarity with the wife's books is not even close as his. S
+--- 21959063
+>>21959058
+I fucked up the comment 
+(cont)
+So you're probably right. The stories are from his wife but the writing is his.
+--- 21959068
+>>21959058
+>>21959063
+yea. And a journalist found a money trail leading directly to the wife. It makes sense.
+--- 21959089
+>>21957738
+>>21957764
+>white woman opinion on literature 
+into the trash
+--- 21959242
+>>21959028
+I didn’t ask your permission, you fragile little turd sculpture
+--- 21959249
+>>21959242
+hahahahaha seethe more tranny. it's not an order, it's a reality.
+--- 21959257
+>>21959058
+>they mention he might be working along his wife but the similarity with the wife's books is not even close as his
+But that’s only because the only books that are hers are translations she’s done. 
+
+Still think its her husband either way though.
+--- 21959271
+>>21959028
+>>21959249
+This is another sad case of a chronically online redditor whose mind has been turned to mush and rotted out by anime, video games, and 4chan debates where the extent of his cognitive capacity to argue extends only as far as the banal and trite insults he’s learned from other smooth-brained redditors.
+--- 21959311
+>>21959271
+>4chan is reddit now!
+lmao the faggot admitted to being a tranny and you're here riding his cock. what causes you to say nonsensical shit? honestly
+--- 21959316
+>>21957997
+It actually is quite a big deal if one of the biggest authors and feminist voices in the world is a man. Why would a man pretend to be a woman and devote all his writings and interviews to promoting feminism? It doesn’t make much sense but if it’s true it would be incredible
+--- 21959328
+>>21957243
+Uh, feminist sisters... our response?
+--- 21960706
+>>21957875
+>>21957876
+based if true.
+--- 21960763
+>>21959316
+
+If it were a woman, there wouldn't be such an effort to hide the real identity. It HAS to be a man.

lit/21956732.txt

@@ -29,3 +29,21 @@ Unironocally this is so over
 --- 21957840
 >>21956802
 You are a retard
+--- 21958420
+AI is great at understanding the outerlayer of things. It sees pic related and thinks: This guy has 2 fingers! Everyone has 2 fingers.
+
+It doesn't understand the mind, it doesn't understand the layers that make up a human. The atoms, it understands only vague smears of color. It doesn't know when it is contradicting itself. At least not the consumer grade tier AI that gets peddled inthe news media.
+--- 21958522
+>ITT retards who have absolutely no clue the power of these AI tools and are coping for the inevitable sentient takeover.
+--- 21958789
+Why would I need an AI for that? Abrahamic religion is easy to remember. Everything is based on blaming others for your own fuck ups. That's pretty much it
+--- 21959897
+>>21958522
+>my sky daddy... uhh I mean superhuman AI will come here any second to beat the shit out of you!
+>any moment now...
+--- 21961040
+>>21956732 (OP)
+I would be very hesitant to trust it. I think that it may be useful as a supplement to the writings of the Church Fathers and Saints, as well as commentaries written by qualified people, but keep in mind AI just generates weird stuff from time to time. You need to be highly on guard against heresies. And given that it is made by man, it cannot be perfectly objective and will have biases. Keep in mind there are denominations of Protestantism which have highly heretical doctrines, and I say this as a Lutheran. There are Protestant denominations which hold God to not be infallible, or that Scripture is not divinely inspired, or that Christ is a created being. Moreover, if Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, or similar material has been included in any capacity, it becomes a great deal more dangerous.
+Having looked at the webpage on the app store, the developers do not state their intentions for developing the app (material gain, charity, something else?), and do not have even have a summary of the list of sources the AI is trained on. It also appears to be closed-source, proprietary software, which means we don't have a way to investigate or audit it. 
+
+Tread with extreme caution.

lit/21956773.txt

@@ -77,3 +77,111 @@ Maybe he's trying to get you to kill yourself to see how you do it. If it truly
 >neighbor listens to a text-to-speech recipe on a loop for 3 days before calling 911
 >meanwhile my body has rotted beyond recognition
 Thanks Reddit!
+--- 21957964
+>>21957480
+You gotta have one of those farmer bodies by the time you're that age. My grand-uncle's like that and he can go on hikes and tons of shit.
+--- 21957967
+die with a hard on
+--- 21957970
+>>21957360
+He was a whiny cuck
+--- 21957981
+>>21956773 (OP)
+How beautiful is seppuku though? I mean, you disembowel and decapitate yourself. Imagine the smell. It leaves a giant mess, your guts over the floor, the stench, your head lying around. You need to involve other people, basically inflict on someone the task to decapitate you. That person supposedly failed in Mishima's case, just sort of stabbed him in the neck without severing the head. Another guy had to do it. Then the other guy wanted to disembowel himself too, though Mishima had tried to dissuade him I think. Not sure how successful he was with disemboweling himself but I think he was then decapitated too. All this after Mishima said he thought the soldiers couldn't really hear him. The speech delivered to inspire the coup d'etat might not have been audible to the crowd.
+--- 21958049
+>>21956865
+What he was really saying is not that you have to make your death a spectacle. It was that modern life offers few, maybe no, opportunities for a dignified death and thus the same for a dignified life. So dying in a spectacle is the only option available.
+--- 21958156
+>>21956773 (OP)
+By modern aesthetics, in a pool of your own piss, shit and barf, with a prolapsed ass, infected tattoos and a festering fleshwound where your penis used to be.
+--- 21959056
+>>21958049
+>So dying in a spectacle is the only option available.
+Islamist take
+--- 21959244
+>>21959056
+It wasn't a moral judgment so much as a declaration of the facts. Was he supposed to find his noble life and death as a bureaucrat in the treasury department behind a computer? Obviously not. So suicide turned spectacle was the only option he saw available. Frankly, he's right. Not even a few decades ago, a soldier could die a gruesome death on the battlefield and he'd hailed at home as a hero. Now, it seems that you're snuffed out by a drone carrying a grenade while you sit helplessly and the video is broadcast to the whole world and sometimes even sent to your family, robbing you of any chance at legacy, heroism, or an otherwise dignified death. Mishima rightly understood that liberal-democratic-tech world was dehumanizing at its core and reduced life and death to things that are not just sterile but repulsive and ugly.
+--- 21959295
+>>21956773 (OP)
+Jumping in front of a subway train and making thousands of people late for work.
+--- 21959333
+>>21956773 (OP)
+I don't know about you but I intend to live to a ripe old age in a healthy body surrounded by people I love
+--- 21959354
+>>21959333
+Gay. I'm not even out of my 20s and I'm already sincerely weary. Other people are just occasionally entertaining noise at this point. Life is too long as it is, I can't imagine prolonging it as a desireable strategy.
+--- 21959361
+>>21959354
+(You) problem detected
+--- 21959365
+>>21959333
+Dude, look at how hellish life is. We've been turned into livestock hooked up to phone and computes the way cows are hooked up to milking machines. Maybe I'm just depressed, but nothing about life excites me anymore.
+--- 21959367
+>>21959333
+>wants his life to be a laxative commercial
+gay and reddit
+--- 21959371
+>>21956773 (OP)
+>How do you achieve a beautiful death in the modern age?
+Write a character arc that you act out in the form youtube videos, blogs and the like that culminates in a great showdown.
+--- 21960024
+>>21956783
+Anyone who has worked in medicine (or lived a little) knows that the “peaceful death at 90” is little more than a fantasy. Aging is brutal, and you will not escape its ravages.
+--- 21960036
+"Greek mythology tells of how Achilles was forced to choose between a long life void of glory and a glorious young death. Without flinching, he chose the latter. Surely all but the most prosaic of men, if given the choice at the start of life, would do the same."
+>>21956865
+>>21959333
+t. the most prosaic of men
+
+>>21956773 (OP)
+Too much of a personal nature to this problem to be answered so easily and generally, but thanks for the Mishima thread.
+
+>>21957981
+>All this after Mishima said he thought the soldiers couldn't really hear him. The speech delivered to inspire the coup d'etat might not have been audible to the crowd.
+Even if they had heard him properly, I don't think he was counting on their understanding (when he said "I don't think they heard me", he wasn't talking only literally). Mishima realized the world had been heading in a direction that is unlikely to be dissuaded, and one that conflicted with his personal beliefs, so he started looking for the most meaningful way in which he could end his own life, to not be part of it, and in doing so achieve some semblance of a transcedental death, the classical heroic death which is no longer available to us in the same form. This was a planned process that had surely been going on for many years in his head.
+
+>How beautiful is seppuku though?
+"A scene of seppuku on a Kabuki stage, immaculately white everywhere and every detail as rigorously and sensitively controlled as in a tea ceremony, has never disgusted a Japanese audience: on the contrary, it washed them clean of the petty vulgarity of their daily existence and an emotion akin to catharsis sent them home glowing."
+
+Aesthetics is a funny thing.
+--- 21960279
+>>21960036
+Aesthetics is the only thing that truly matters in this world. Which is why Mishima is basically a saint and his life, a peerless masterwork.
+--- 21960420
+>>21956773 (OP)
+Impossible, millennials killed the concept of beauty and quality standards.
+--- 21960502
+>>21959333
+Miserable people are seething but your digits don't lie. Based anon.
+--- 21960951
+>>21960279
+Beyond based
+--- 21960965
+>>21958049
+What I would do for the dignity of sustenance farming... Or maybe getting riddled with arrows in a pike formation and living the rest of my days on the charity of my neighbors who have little to give. Imagine the dignity of such a life.
+--- 21960979
+>>21960036
+>thinks he'd be Achilles in ancient times
+>doesn't think he'd be a shit shoveler in the king's stables, or maybe a well fed eunuch if he's lucky
+--- 21961946
+>>21960979
+>Doesn't realize that the same mindset which makes him uncomfortable is exactly what would've differentiated a striving Achilles from a content shit shoveler.
+
+Truth can only be real if it favors or at least includes me as well, duh.
+--- 21961962
+>>21956773 (OP)
+A beautiful death? lmfao
+
+The most central and foundational part of his life, from which everything else flowed, was that he was a giant attention-whoring faggot queen.
+
+This is not to be confused with his homosexuality; his homosexuality is incidental rather than constitutive, but nonetheless derived from the fact that he was a giant attention-whoring faggot queen, namely via the fact that women are not capable of the boundless adoration and worship that men are, necessitating that Mishima become a homosexual to satisfy his giant attention-whoring faggot queen impulses by being adored and worshipped by those most capable of it, i.e. men.
+
+The same fundamental explanation goes for his books, with all their boring bourgeois pseudo-transgression, expertly tip-toeing the exact line between a harmless eccentricity vis-a-vis social norms, attracting large crowds on account of its peculiarity and shocking nature to pearl-clutching normies, but never once crossing the line into real transgression, something that would alienate the normie crowds in his book. Oh wow, the character killed a cat and seems indifferent, very transgressive, such symbol.
+
+However, this not being enough to satisfy his giant attention-whoring faggot queen impulses, he established the perfect situation for himself with his poorly attempted coup: either he would succeed and be the prime instigator of a return to imperial Japan, or he would fail and spectacularly kill himself. Both options would secure him a place in the history books, satisfying his giant attention-whoring faggot queen impulses. It could not fail, or so Mishima thought.
+
+In a pure show of ironic force crafted by the hand of God himself, his feeble 5'1 body was not capable of producing enough volume in his voice, in the speech to instigate the coup, for the soldiers below the balcony to hear him - it cannot be stressed enough what a fundamental and metaphysical failure this was for the faggot queen who craved nothing but attention. One can only speculate, but it is possible that this alone was enough for his seppuku to be motivated by more than attention-whoring, that he felt, for once, actual shame. Even further getting blown the fuck out by God, his backup plan, that would honorably remove him from this world in a faggy-aesthetic way, failed - his secondary, who was to decapitate him after he had disemboweled himself, was too weak to do so, and tried three times to separate head from body, failing each time.
+
+In short: he did it to satisfy his narcissist, faggot queen urges; what he attained instead was becoming a joke so sophisticated and perfect that it must have come about by divine intervention.
+
+>inb4 22 year olds who squat as much as Mishima (pic related, 20 pounds) get assblasted and start autistically screaming about le heroism while listening to Sabaton (highly cringe)

lit/21956810.txt

@@ -63,3 +63,68 @@ Read the power of now, too.
 The Lost Weekend 
 
 https://youtu.be/ZR1YwKfWXfg [Embed]
+--- 21958614
+>>21956810 (OP)
+I drink all day and I drink all night. I enjoy drinking. I remember hitting my mom because she stood in front of the fridge. I live alone now and I'm glad I'm a high functioning alcoholic, I wouldn't know how to live without it. You're a little on the dumb side of you think alcohol is the problem.
+--- 21958644
+>>21956810 (OP)
+its no big deal man, its seems to me like you just have to loosen up
+--- 21958654
+I have actually been getting into drunk driving all of a sudden at the prime age of 30, right at the dawn of a new well-paying relatively enjoyable career. I had to swerve into a Walgreens last weekend to puke and rally for the drive home. The next afternoon when I woke up I very mechanically went to my parking garage equipped with paper towels and Lemon Pledge to clean some of the shrapnel that had hit my door as I pushed it open at the moment of crisis, just in the nick of time. It also doesn't help that the main street to my apartment is always under construction and different every time I drive on it. Try driving straight when there are already eight crisscrossed lanes painted on a four lane road. It was my drunk driving Magnum Opus.
+--- 21958659
+>>21957109
+>You exist as pure will. All you control is your action in the present moment. Everything else, every thought, is just a red herring or an excuse generated by your egoic mind
+I really like the sound of this. It makes me feel powerful.
+--- 21958702
+>>21956837
+fpbp
+--- 21958731
+>>21958659
+In a weird way it's probably the first and last thing the true addict understands
+--- 21959621
+>>21956810 (OP)
+Big Sur 
+Most shit by Bukowski
+Fear and loathing in Las Vegas for substance abuse I suppose.
+--- 21959625
+>>21956810 (OP)
+>I'm ashamed that I drunk drove last night
+Kwab
+--- 21959632
+>>21956888
+Read 10 pages and couldn't get into it.
+May w it just starts boring.
+I remember Bukowski in that Dutch interview saying it bored him to shit. But I'm trying to keep an open mind. I'll pick it up again at some point.
+--- 21959967
+>>21958654
+nigga you posted on /tv/ the other day. quit driving drunk
+--- 21959978
+>>21956810 (OP)
+Kill yourself loser.
+--- 21960044
+>>21958614
+based mother abuser, alcohol wins again
+--- 21960048
+>>21956810 (OP)
+>trying to cut down on alcohol
+>eating dinner without wine is nearly unbearable
+Seriously, eating steak without some red or fish without white feels so bad.
+--- 21960059
+I want to get hammered but the last time I drank heavily I had really bad shakes and pins and needles the next day. I think my nerves are getting shredded by the booze. Sad.
+--- 21960071
+Does drinking actually making you dumber in the longer term?
+--- 21960077
+>>21960071
+I suspect that you would see no change.
+--- 21960115
+>>21960077
+oh har har, well aren't you clevah
+--- 21960487
+>>21959978
+suicide aint my stallion
+--- 21960526
+>>21956810 (OP)
+I lost everything to alcohol, in fact I am drinking right now. All my life I studied to get into a good school, I was dedicated to being a good son and after achieving all of that and landing a good job I decided to reward myself by having a drink which made me feel really good. Soon afterwards I lost my job, my gf and my parents. I don't talk to anyone these days, I just idle away my time reading and doing porn commissions for Patreonbux. The worst part about my predicament is that I am starting to enjoy it. I am 28 now, things aren't looking good for me.
+--- 21961625
+>>21959967
+No, I don't post there.

lit/21956962.txt

@@ -58,3 +58,130 @@ uhhh... based?!
 --- 21957718
 >>21956962 (OP)
 What a coincidence. My favorite pasttime is going to suicide spots and telling hookers no one will ever love them, especially their unborn children.
+--- 21958005
+>>21957021
+woAH
+--- 21958170
+>>21956962 (OP)
+Based and christpilled.
+--- 21958176
+>>21958170
+Damn, even Jesus was chasing crazy pussy?
+--- 21958191
+>>21958176
+Stop projecting coomerbrain fren.
+--- 21958217
+>>21956962 (OP)
+So when he realized he can't actually save anyone, because they are in fact Russian, he also midwitedly decided to do the Russian thing and just pretend he did by writing some make believe fiction where his characters actually complete some sort of redemption arc.
+
+It's probably what some white leftoid would go through after deciding to live amongst some eternally poor, oppressed minority. When that inevitable realization that it's no coincidence they live the way they do hits, being a midwit he'll have no chance but to assume it's because of some socio-economic factors or ingrained racism traumas or whatever and decide he must make stuff up to compensate. Suddenly, you have scholars who rang the wrong doorbell in the middle of the night, joggers out for a run, real assets to their community doing charity work, so on. So heckin' wholesome seeing the good in people, very Christian-pilled.
+--- 21958231
+>>21956996
+His biography explains a lot of things from his novels. For example, there is a quote in Crime and Punishment who goes like this: Where is it I've read that someone condemned to death says or thinks, an hour before his death, that if he had to live on some high rock, on such a narrow ledge that he'd only room to stand, and the ocean, everlasting darkness, everlasting solitude, everlasting tempest around him, if he had to remain standing on a square yard of space all his life, a thousand years, eternity, it were better to live so than to die at once. Only to live, to live and live! Life, whatever it may be!
+
+This is explained because Dostoyevsky was condemned to death. He was saved at the last minute, when the guard was already pointing his gun at him.
+--- 21958247
+What did Dostoevsky mean by this?
+--- 21958344
+>>21958247
+Dosto confirmed patrician.
+--- 21958390
+>>21958170
+This. He was essentially tending to "orphans and widows" which is one of the highest callings for the faithful. He was merciful to people who were abandoned and despised. Dosto sounds like a great man.
+--- 21958440
+>>21956962 (OP)
+bro literally thought he could fix her
+--- 21958793
+>>21958440
+He very probably could. The milk of human kindness is all a lot of people need.
+--- 21958794
+>>21958247
+feet really are the thinking mans fetish, arent they
+--- 21958811
+>>21956962 (OP)
+I knew he was a Chad, but not on this level... Whst a chad...
+--- 21960375
+What is sex with a suicidal woman like? Is it passionate and full of desperate abandon? Or do they just lie there?
+--- 21960438
+>>21956962 (OP)
+Literary captain save a hoes are a majority of (erotica) writers, actually.
+--- 21960445
+>>21960375
+>What is sex with a suicidal woman like? Is it passionate and full of desperate abandon? Or do they just lie there?
+I mean, it does heavily depend on whether you find them before it's too late.
+--- 21960519
+>>21956962 (OP)
+>be man
+>put whores on pedestal
+every time 
+
+i wonder why men utterly despise other men and cant stop idolizing vagoos
+--- 21960794
+>>21960445
+Assume they’re still alive.
+--- 21960835
+>>21958440
+he fixed me. if anyone could do it, its dostoyevsky
+--- 21960858
+>>21958793
+Not even God can unstretch a rubber band.
+--- 21960908
+>>21960858
+Paradox. Can God create a pussy so loose he can't cum from fucking it?
+--- 21960913
+>>21960858
+>>21960908
+you guys do realize vaginas dont actually get stretched out from having sex, right?
+--- 21960941
+>>21960913
+Then how come all the prostitutes i've fucked have mostly loose pussies?
+--- 21960967
+>>21960519
+>i wonder why men utterly despise other men
+they don't. sounds like a you problem
+--- 21960974
+>>21957718
+--- 21960980
+I’m suicidal and nothing would put me over the edge faster than a moralizing pseud like dosto trying to talk me out of it.
+--- 21960986
+>>21960980
+sounds like your life is exactly where you want it to be
+--- 21961175
+>>21960980
+thing is, would he be throwing pseud shit or would it be actually deep?
+how would you react if it was the latter?
+--- 21961189
+>>21961175
+Not him, but what could Fyodor possible say to, for example, a semiliterate prostitute that she would be able to understand and also be “deep”
+--- 21961198
+>>21961189
+you can often get someone thinking with some psychological insight.
+we're assuming it's a pseud like anon, and not a prostitute, also.
+--- 21961200
+>>21961189
+He literally has multiple such characters in his books in a fleshed out empathic manner
+--- 21961210
+>>21961200
+That doesn’t mean he could come up with something life altering on the spot. 
+>despondent 19 year old prostitute ravaged by consumption mounts the bridge rail, ready to jump to her death 
+>dosto emerges from the crowd 
+>wait! 
+What does he say? What could he say?
+--- 21961215
+>>21961210
+>"нe пpыгaй!"
+--- 21961342
+>>21961210
+You really don't have to say something profound. Just strike up a regular conversation, make them laugh, "manipulate" them out of the imminent danger. After that you could share a meal with them or just sit down until the initial rush passes by, and they'd open up by themselves. I'd imagine that Dosto was intelligent and charismatic enough to know how to deal with people through indirect communication.
+--- 21961344
+What is it with Russian femoids and suicide by drowning? 
+>Yelizaveta had spent her entire adult life pining for the artist Konstantin Somov. Somov was gay and never reciprocated her romantic interest him but did string her along as his friend and muse. When Yelizaveta contracted TB Somov told her that he wanted to paint her showing the ravages of the disease, as a work of social realism. She agreed, on the condition the painting never be sold or exhibited to the wider public. Believing the image would be kept within the tight knit art circle of Russia at the time, she agreed to pose bearing both shoulders and considerable décolletage. Somov finished the work and immediately submitted it to a massive public exhibition where the suggestive nature of the image coupled with Yelizaveta's enigmatic gaze caused a sensation. Somov then sold it to the Tretyakov Gallery for a king's ransom and retired to a life of leisure. Aghast and publicly shamed as a whore (many believed the picture depicted a high class prostitute) Yelizaveta suffered a nervous breakdown and attempted to drown herself in the Neva River. She survived, barely, but it hastened the TB and she died a broken, inconsolable wreck, choking on her own blood between heaving sobs. Moscow legend holds that her spirit haunts the Tretyakov Gallery to this day and since 1905 the night watchman has left a cup of milky tea near her painting as an offering, a practice continued even during the anti-superstitious times of the Soviet Union.
+--- 21961354
+>>21956962 (OP)
+where are you quoting this from?
+--- 21961373
+>>21961344
+That is a pretty lewd image for the day. Amazing how women today will post themselves wearing things 100x skimpier willingly to public platforms for anyone to gawk at
+--- 21961382
+>>21961373
+I wonder if it will ever evolve to outright nudity, or if our grandkids will be appalled to see what women are willing to display of themselves. Or maybe we're approaching the end of history for publicly acceptable nudity.

lit/21957087.txt

@@ -71,3 +71,210 @@ so you can't even point to one thing that is wrong with the actual words on the
 >therefore non-scientific, not pseudoscientific. You wouldn't call mathematics a pseudoscience, would you?
 (nta) no, but not non-scientific either. Mathematicians pose conjectures that can certainly be falsified. Definitions can be shown to exclude important examples, eg in the old understanding of functions etc etc., that moves the theory forward without any need for practical applications. 
 The ctmu does not advance understanding of anything. At the very best it can be called a restatement of certain certain gnostic speculations in Langans private language. There have been dozens such restatements, and their philosophical added value is exactly zero.
+--- 21957917
+>>21957727
+and neither can you point to one thing right. that's the problem with silly nonsense! it's neither right nor wrong, it's only funny when someone tries to defend it against criticisms by posting walls of text 
+
+I remember now that last time someone claimed CTMU solved the Newcomb problem, but couldn't actually explain what the proposed solution was or which interpretation it favored. And the linked essay was complete gibberish that showed 0 understanding of the problem. That's funny. Maybe you could try and defend the solution to the Newcomb problem. I'm a 1 boxer btw
+--- 21958767
+>>21957917
+Essentially langan reduces the problem to proving the validity of the concept of a godly predictive intelligence, and he does this by arguing it is possible that the demon is in control of the simulation in which the world in which newcombs paradox is happening, and his body in the simulation is just an instantiation. This demonstrates the applicability of the concept of a godly predictive intelligence, hence the arbitrarily long line of successes of the demon can be taken as non-accidential, hence you shouldn’t try to trick the demon.
+This method of looking at the problem is actually pretty standard (demonstrating the feasability of there possibly being a godly predictive intelligence). Even my professor tackled the issue in this way, though more through a cognitive science type solution.
+--- 21958783
+>>21957440
+>Pseudo-science is something that pretends to be scientific. CTMU is metaphysical, and therefore non-scientific, not pseudoscientific.
+
+What's the difference?
+--- 21958798
+>>21958783
+Metaphysics doesn’t aim at being a science since it doesn’t want to be falsibiable by empirical inquiry. It wants a stronger and more fixed ground by which it can support it’s judgments, and this ground is usually either axiomatic (mathematical), critical (starts from some practically necessary to recognize experiences), or common sensist (starts from judgments convincing and seemingly undoubtable).
+--- 21958808
+>>21958798
+Spinoza is an example of the first, Kant of the second, Reid or Schopenhauer the third (yes I am claiming Schopenhauer is a common sense realist, this is evident from Schopenhauer’s characterization of the fourfold root as an induced set of types of inferences which we seem to always use and and it seems we cannot doubt)
+--- 21958813
+>>21958808
+Common sensist* schopenhauer isnt a realist
+--- 21958855
+>>21958798
+And how do you know that ground is solid, if you can't test it? You're just going to assume that?
+--- 21958923
+>>21958798
+List the axioms of ctmu please
+--- 21959514
+>>21958855
+Ideally it would be logically necessitated by all the judgements which fall within it. And it’s contrary would be absurd.
+--- 21959722
+>>21958923
+There are 3 main axioms in the CTMU from which the entire theory is more-or-less derived. These 3 axioms correspond neatly to the 3 properties a true TOE must exhibit and must nowhere violate within its structure.
+
+These 3 axioms are:
+>The Reality Principle
+Reality, i.e. the real universe, contains all and only that which is real. The reality concept is analytically self-contained; if there were something outside reality that were real enough to affect or influence reality, it would be inside reality, and this contradiction invalidates any supposition of an external reality (up to observational or theoretical relevance).
+>The Principle of Syndiffeonesis
+Reality is a relation, and every relation is a syndiffeonic relation exhibiting syndiffeonesis or difference-in-sameness. Therefore, reality is a syndiffeonic relation. Syndiffeonesis implies that any assertion to the effect that two things are different implies that they are reductively the same; if their difference is real, then they both reduce to a common reality and are to that extent similar. Syndiffeonesis, the most general of all reductive principles, forms the basis of a new view of the relational structure of reality.
+>The Principle of Linguistic Reducibility
+Reality is a self-contained form of language. This is true for at least two reasons. First, although it is in some respects material and concrete, reality conforms to the algebraic definition of a language. That is, it incorporates (1) representations of (object-like) individuals, (space-like) relations and attributes, and (time-like) functions and operations; (2) a set of "expressions" or perceptual states; and (3) a syntax consisting of (a) logical and geometric rules of structure, and (b) an inductive-deductive generative grammar identifiable with the laws of state transition. Second, because perception and cognition are languages, and reality is cognitive and perceptual in nature, reality is a language as well.
+
+Which respectively correspond to the 3 properties of:
+>Closure
+Concisely, closure equals self-containment with respect to a relation or predicate, and this equates to self-reference. E.g., the self-consistency of a system ultimately equates to the closure of that system with respect to consistency, and this describes a scenario in which every part of the system refers consistently to other parts of the system (and only thereto).
+>Consistency
+Freedom from irresolvable paradox.
+>Comprehensiveness
+Nonexclusion of true statements regarding the universe (as opposed to the deterministic generation of all true statements about the universe – that would be completeness).
+--- 21960125
+>>21957087 (OP)
+It's total cowardice and deeply Christian.
+--- 21960136
+>>21959722
+"The huger the mob, and the greater the apparent anarchy, the more perfect is its sway. It is the supreme law of Unreason. Whenever a large sample of chaotic elements are taken in hand and marshalled in the order of their magnitude, an unsuspected and most beautiful form of regularity proves to have been latent all along."
+--- 21960144
+>>21957087 (OP)
+stale spam
+--- 21960196
+>>21960136
+nice, but you didn't explain how this relates to that post
+--- 21960263
+>>21959722
+I mean this is basically a sciency-sounding mashup of Wittgenstein with Deleuze and Gödel / Wheeler / Witten pop-sci neuroscience sprinkled on top. Sounds rather tame for a supposedly world-breaking new metaphysics. What am I missing?
+--- 21960365
+>>21960263
+>What am I missing?
+it looks like you're missing the entire theory because you just wrote a bunch of names and said it's a "mashup" and then used the words pop-sci and neuroscience to describe it when the CTMU is primarily a metaphysical and metamathematical theory and has almost nothing to do with pop-sci or neuroscience except insofar as the general theoretical constraints of the CTMU apply to the empirical sciences so maybe try reading the actual theory before you drop a couple of names and buzzwords thinking the shit you just dropped encapsulates the entire theory
+--- 21961486
+bump
+--- 21961527
+>>21959514
+Yes, and how would you assert that this is actually so?
+--- 21961535
+>>21961527
+logical and mathematical consistency? question mark?
+--- 21961542
+>>21961535
+That would only test if parts of your model are consistent with themselves. This is supposed to be a model of reality, how are you going to test whether this is also consistent with the reality you're trying to describe?
+--- 21961552
+>>21961542
+By providing a model which accounts for the relationship between the abstract and the concrete? That's kind of the point of the theory?
+--- 21961559
+>>21961552
+And how are you going to test whether this relationship between your abstract theory and the concrete reality is consistent? How does this model try to do this?
+--- 21961565
+>>21961559
+You do this by formulating statements that are in accordance with perceptual reality?
+--- 21961573
+>>21961565
+And how do you test whether those are consistent with reality? You doing literally nothing now but running in circles. I asked you over and over again how you test this model of reality, and all you produce is sophistry and semantic bullshit. This tells me that this model is complete dogshit
+--- 21961587
+>>21961573
+You test whether statements are consistent with perceptual reality by seeing if they are consistent with perceptual reality dumbass, one of the criteria by which this consistency can be evaluated is called "logic", maybe you have heard of it? Then again, maybe not
+--- 21961589
+>>21961587
+Absolute sophist drivel. No wonder no one takes this shitty model seriously
+--- 21961592
+>>21961589
+nice argument, the only problem with it is that it is not in any of your posts
+--- 21961597
+>>21961587
+You both are having a dialectic that is essentially unrelated to CTMU (which, cards on the table, I regard as worse than gibberish).
+
+The CTMU proponent here is arguing: you see whether the statements are consistent with "perceptual reality." But the whole fucking point of metaphysics is that every claim in metaphysics is going to be consistent with observation. Metaphysics goes beyond observation.
+
+The CTMU opponent is arguing that, since metaphysics goes beyond observation, no consideration can ever bear on the truth or falsity of a metaphysical claim. Which, fair enough, but that attaches to the entire inquiry of metaphysics, not CTMU specifically.
+--- 21961600
+>>21961597
+Absolute sophist drivel. No wonder no one takes this shitty post seriously
+--- 21961607
+>>21961600
+Nice try, but it's absolutely so. If not, explain why. Moron.
+--- 21961611
+>>21961607
+explain why what you said refutes CTMU
+--- 21961615
+>>21961611
+I didn't claim to refute CMTU. I claimed to give a diagnosis about the dispute between the two parties to the dispute.
+
+I literally have to ask: do you even know how to read? Are you brain-damaged? (It's ok if you are)
+--- 21961619
+>>21961615
+ok just checking if maybe you had something interesting to say and if maybe I could prod an argument out of you because there are no arguments here
+--- 21961631
+>>21961619
+Once again, I never claimed to give arguments against or for CTMU. Fucking idiot.
+
+Every time a CTMU topic comes up, I start to try effortposting in response to it, but then I give up, because it is so obviously and utterly crank nonsense that it's not worth my time.
+
+You talk about "arguments" but if you're a proponent of CTMU, I must laugh in your face.
+
+If you're looking for bait, let's start with this: give me a simple explanation of what a "syndiffeonic" relation is, with examples, without resorting to other jargon from CTMU (or, if you must resort to other jargon, you must explain that in simple terms without jargon and with examples)
+--- 21961690
+>>21958855
+I literally listed the three ways of assuring this in the two sentence comment you are responding to.
+--- 21961732
+Aquinas + science autism. Who cares.
+--- 21961735
+>>21957087 (OP)
+>>21957206
+>>21957210
+>>21957259
+>>21957392
+>>21957404
+>>21957414
+>>21957421
+>>21957423
+>>21957428
+>>21957430
+>>21957437
+>>21957439
+>>21957440
+>>21957455
+>>21957488
+>>21957685
+>>21957707
+>>21957709
+>>21957727
+>>21957917
+>>21958767
+>>21958767
+>>21958783
+>>21958798
+>>21958808
+>>21958813
+>>21958855
+>>21958923
+>>21959514
+>>21959722
+>>21960125
+>>21960136
+>>21960144
+>>21960196
+>>21960263
+>>21960365
+>>21961486
+>>21961527
+>>21961535
+>>21961542
+>>21961552
+>>21961559
+>>21961565
+>>21961573
+>>21961587
+>>21961589
+>>21961592
+>>21961597
+>>21961600
+>>21961607
+>>21961611
+>>21961615
+>>21961619
+>>21961631
+>>21961690
+do you fellas fart?
+--- 21961754
+>>21961631
+A syndiffeonic relation is a mathematical way to express difference within sameness. It ultimately demonstrates that all things are interconnected and conform to the same rules of structure or syntax, making it essential to any truly self-contained theory of everything. It is associated with an operation in the CTMU called unisection, whereby common elements of perceptual or mathematical objects can regress inductively to lay bare those which are most general. This relation is capable of being expressed in numerous ways, whether in a more visual manner as is seen in the 2002 paper, or in the expression "s(d1, d2, d3,...)". This latter expression and syndiffeonesis in general are further described in "An Introduction to Mathematical Metaphysics" as follows:
+>The diffeonic extension of the relation, being just a set of things that are simultaneously recognized as different instances of the property or syntax s which describes them, is inside the parentheses; the synetic intension which describes or distributes over the extension is to the left. This notation is designed to resemble an arithmetical expression like n(a1 + a2 + a3 + ...) = na1 + na2 + na3 + ..., in which multiplication distributes over addition. The di inside the parentheses are the “diffeonic relands”, arbitrary things that are observed or conceived to differ from each other, while s is just the synetic intension or syntax which describes or defines them.
+--- 21961947
+>>21957087 (OP)
+>rephrases parts of the Tractatus poorly but in a way that makes it marginally more accessible to pleboids
+>NEW KIND OF REALITY THEORY
+epic

lit/21957287.txt

@@ -39,3 +39,59 @@ He didn't write any "shite", it's mediocre at worst.
 "They can" doesn't mean they do. Times and attitudes have changed.
 >No one in the contemporary period gives a shit about being the most prolific writer.
 Exactly, because their goals are soulless and materialistic.
+--- 21957897
+>>21957287 (OP)
+Don't forget the daily fapping edging session but without ejaculating for semen retention, testosterone optimization and Jesus Christ. 
+Truly a man of culture.
+--- 21957992
+>>21957287 (OP)
+I mean, have you look at his work? I have read a few pages, the first impression is that there's something simplistic about his work. Like A meets B. Then B gives a three page monologue. A listens. Then A gives a monlogue. And it's all clearly written language, there's not even an attempt to render speech like it is actually spoken. It's like a puppet theatre and he's the puppet master.
+--- 21958988
+>>21957897
+Source?
+--- 21958997
+>>21957992
+>read a few pages of an unknown work
+>first impression
+Wow, it's worthless!
+--- 21959345
+he was one of dostoevsky's favorite writers therefore he is based and a master
+--- 21959390
+>There are some authors from whom I shrink because they are so voluminous that I feel that, do what I may, I can never hope to be well read in their works. Therefore, and very weakly, I avoid them altogether. There is Balzac, for example, with his hundred odd volumes. I am told that some of them are masterpieces and the rest pot-boilers, but that no one is agreed which is which. Such an author makes an undue claim upon the little span of mortal years. Because he asks too much one is inclined to give him nothing at all. 
+t. conan doyle
+--- 21959399
+>>21959390
+>Because he asks too much one is inclined to give him nothing at all.
+Me with Frank Zappa.
+--- 21959527
+>>21959345
+Based.
+--- 21959531
+>>21959390
+>some of them are masterpieces and the rest pot-boilers, but that no one is agreed which is which
+That is wrong though, it's very clear and agreed upon which ones are his masterpieces.
+--- 21959539
+Anyone want to work on translating the remaining untranslated book in the human comedy?
+--- 21959968
+>>21959539
+No because I'm French and don't need a translation
+--- 21960009
+Joyce Carol Oates does all that and still finds time to trigger chuds on twitter
+--- 21960027
+>>21957287 (OP)
+no one cares about literature
+fuck steven pinker
+--- 21960032
+>>21959968
+Did not ask, frog
+--- 21960132
+>>21959539
+Which one is that?
+--- 21960672
+>>21957287 (OP)
+I've gone on months-long meth/crack binges before, don't have any kind of discernible sleeping rhythm, and occasionally masturbate six times a day when the urge hits me.
+
+So far I've self published two novellas and have another half-dozen under way. Before I dropped out of college my literature teacher called me a genius and was trying to groom me for a life of academic drudgery at Harvard.
+--- 21960744
+>>21957663
+Writing an abundance of mediocre books is equivalent to writing shite. Also in literature mediocrity is shite, because actual shite can't be called literature. A mediocre poem is a dreadful poem. A terrible poem is a form of terrorism. Balzac was no terrorist but he did get sloppy. Still, i retain the sweetest memories of reading la duchesse de Langeais when I was a little younger

lit/21957309.txt

@@ -4,3 +4,109 @@ Why is cosmic horror seen as "Lovecraftian" when Lovecraft himself didn't even p
 --- 21957313
 >>21957309 (OP)
 Because he did it bigly.
+--- 21958888
+>>21957309 (OP)
+This man's genius was sinister af
+--- 21958915
+>>21957309 (OP)
+His horror is more mystic than cosmic
+--- 21958948
+>>21958915
+How horror can be mystical?
+--- 21959000
+>>21957309 (OP)
+Because Lovecraft opened the door for all the talentless hacks to get in on it.
+--- 21959020
+>>21958948
+By focusing on "otherworldly" inner experiences, altered states of conscioussness etc. Blackwoods Centaur is like that, and many of his stories like the willows. Lovecraft is mostly focused on outside events, his "cosmicism" is literally about things and beings in the cosmos
+--- 21959022
+Because he did it best at the time and his work felt like it had an underlying thread of nihilism and brutal fatalism that resonated with the readers.
+--- 21959026
+>>21957309 (OP)
+Because America.
+--- 21959760
+>>21957309 (OP)
+Is machen as an early horror author any good.
+--- 21959761
+Blackwood was a Golden Dawn member. He was writing about real things.
+--- 21959770
+>>21959760
+Yes. Try he great god pan, the shining pyramid, the three imposters and the white people. Also, his essay "Hieroglyphics" amazing
+--- 21959776
+>>21959761
+>Golden Dawn
+The sting operation by that spook Crowley?
+--- 21959778
+>>21959776
+Crowley partly caused its splintering.
+--- 21959787
+>>21958948
+Ever heard of occult horror, folk horror?
+--- 21959788
+>>21959778
+You mean the time when he tried to enter the building, but that Yeats cast a spell that threw him down the stairs?
+--- 21959804
+>>21959788
+No I mean the time that Gurdjieff pulled out the etheric blacklight and saw that there were Zeta-Reticulan shit particles on his psychic double's fingers and told him to leave or he would be forced to cast a level 7 protection spell.
+--- 21959805
+>>21959770
+Read pan and the white people and I liked them. Thanks for the extra reccs man.
+--- 21959823
+>>21959804
+>When Crowley showed up to the London headquarters of the Golden Dawn on Blythe Road, a physical confrontation ensued. According to Yeats biographer Richard Ellman, a determined Crowley attempted to ascend a flight of stairs while Yeats and other members of the Golden Dawn confronted him, each shouting spells at the other. Despite their claimed mastery of their craft, the “battle” ended when, according to Ellman, Yeats resorted to simple assault and cast his foot on Crowley’s person:
+
+>“…When Crowley came within range the forces of good struck out with their feet and kicked him downstairs.”
+
+fucking lol
+--- 21959829
+What am I missing with Blackwood? I read The Willows and didn't like it much.
+--- 21959835
+>>21959823
+>Yeats cast the esoteric spell Kick
+He was a great man.
+--- 21959851
+>>21959829
+I recommend Ancient Sorceries, much better than willows.
+--- 21960653
+>>21957309 (OP)
+Why does insanity make horror Lovecraftian?
+Why do fish/squid monsters make horror Lovecraftian?
+It's because people take surface level ideas and run with them.
+--- 21960659
+>>21959835
+Yeats used kick. It was very effective.
+--- 21960660
+>>21957309 (OP)
+>Why is cosmic horror seen as "Lovecraftian" when Lovecraft himself didn't even pioneer the genre?
+Because most lovecraft fans were illiterate, and most lovecraft grifters nowdays (youtubers) are also illiterate.
+--- 21960671
+>>21959829
+Try John Silence stories, but don't start with the one where the guy gets off the train at the strange town not on maps
+--- 21960687
+>>21959760
+1. Blackwood
+2. CAS
+3. Dunsany
+4. MR James
+5. Machen
+6. Lovecraft
+7. Hope Hodgson
+8. Howard
+--- 21960769
+>>21960687
+Who is CAS and btw anon do you have any recommendations?
+--- 21960776
+>>21960769
+Clark Ashton Smith
+
+If you like audiobooks use HorrorBabble
+
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SyT6Xga0Eo [Embed]
+--- 21960875
+>>21960776
+any good tales of his you recommend starting to read?
+--- 21960886
+>>21959823
+Imagine a bunch of adult fucking men standing around shouting I HEX YOU, INFERTILITUS IMPOTENTUS and other dumb shit, in the middle of the fucking street, dressed in wizard LARPing gear. Until one just kicked the other in the face.
+
+You also forgot the part where they initially had this "magic coup" but one of the people just changed the locks and that stopped it.

lit/21957479.txt

@@ -3,3 +3,53 @@
 Enough Atlas Shrugged posts. Give us your thoughts about The Fountainhead.
 --- 21957601
 For what it's worth I think the movie is better.
+--- 21957983
+>>21957601
+Retard. 
+
+Great Book.
+--- 21959530
+>>21957983
+Hey, the movie was also written by Rand!
+--- 21959604
+It's good, but, she mistakes engineers for architects.
+
+She also didn't do herself any favours having her main female character basically demand the MC have sex with her, then calls it rape. Irrational in the extreme, particularly as she says in the same breath that she wanted to be raped...so it's not rape.
+
+But I've seen people make the argument that she advocates for rape because of it.
+--- 21959723
+>>21957479 (OP)
+I liked it better than Atlas Shrugged. It's more concise and not as "epic".
+--- 21959791
+>>21959604
+I think Rand was working through some kinks she had when she wrote the sex scenes in her books.
+--- 21959836
+>>21957479 (OP)
+
+It's a good book and I think much better than Atlas Shrugged. It doesn't feel much like a long drawn out rant and Howard Roark and Ellsworth are some of the most underrated heroes and villains in American literature
+--- 21960060
+>>21959530
+my theory is that she wrote the screenplay in a meth-induced manic episode in a single night
+--- 21960093
+Gloriously autistic. 
+
+I think if she were alive today she would be an unhinged fujoshi and a mod on female dating strategy reddit. 
+Lucky she was born in time where it was sink or swim for people like her, forced her to create her own niche.
+--- 21960235
+>>21960060
+I totally believe that, it's an insane screenplay.
+--- 21960255
+>>21957479 (OP)
+Haven't got around to it yet but looking forward to being able to put some days aside and plow through it in a few sittings.
+--- 21960271
+>>21957479 (OP)
+>book is called "The Fountainhead"
+>he never builds a fountainhead
+--- 21960630
+>>21957479 (OP)
+I really liked it. I didnt think it was some type of absolute masterpiece, but she made her points clear with the characters. It was overall enjoyable, though the sex scenes did not feel necessary for the point to be made.
+--- 21960920
+>>21960271
+Doesn't it mean originality or something thematically relevant?
+--- 21961695
+Is the centennial edition worth it or nah?

lit/21957744.txt

@@ -10,3 +10,156 @@ I heard philosophy majors on /lit/ telling everyone that philosophy cannot be se
 So tell me, /lit/, why do philosophy majors cope so hard? Is it because they wasted their money and still get BTFOs by amateurs? Because they have no actual skill? Because they had to write essays on queer theory while we read scholastics metaphysics? Because we didn't voluntarily castrate our brains for a diploma?
 
 Recommend books on the fraud of academia.
+--- 21957892
+>>21957744 (OP)
+>he thinks writing A-papers is the criterion for whether one is good at philosophy or not 
+Necessary but insufficient is the term in anglo-autist.
+--- 21957903
+>>21957892
+>cope
+--- 21957918
+>>21957892
+>massive cope
+just accept that you can't compete
+--- 21958282
+A degree is 95% a status symbol. Credentialism is used to compensate for lack of self identity.
+--- 21958284
+>>21957744 (OP)
+I guarantee the professor is giving everyone As because you cannot self teach Philosophy
+--- 21958291
+>>21957744 (OP)
+Those sickos trying to keep their jobs. Without us, they're... dead.
+--- 21958299
+>>21957744 (OP)
+Getting good grades in an undergrad degree is easy. I wouldn't be too impressed about that.
+--- 21958309
+>>21958299
+Agreed. Just memorize that shit.
+Nothing big.
+--- 21958333
+I have no idea why people say you cannot self-teach philosophy - it is pretty much the ONLY way to become educated in philosophy today. Every undergraduate course is baby level - even .5-1 year of decent self-study and you will know more than an undergraduate after 3 years of study. Not to mention that every undergraduate course just creates replicas of their professors biased and contingent interests and has nothing to do with an overall philosophical education.
+
+Its ridiculous. I was already reading people Schelling and Suhrawardi on my own when I first entered university, while I had to endure the ridiculousness of sitting in ehtics classes and everyone turn by turn giving their retarded opinions on abortion or whatever issue of the day it was, as if philosophy consisted of dinner table discussions of cheese.
+
+Things got better once I started graduate studies at a top 5 university - but similarly, everyone there was only there because of their drive in autodidactism, not because of their fantastic and nurturing undergraduate education.
+--- 21958339
+Does anyone really think that philosophy cannot be self-taught? I've never seen that
+--- 21958368
+>>21957892
+>this
+the bar is so low because college students are crippled by the continuing school-yard bully tactics and wrong-thinj lectures, afraid to write anything insightful. OP would have an advantage over the actual students because he can speak his mind.
+--- 21958378
+>>21957744 (OP)
+Kwab this simp is writing college essays for a girl for free isn't he
+--- 21958472
+>>21958333
+>Things got better once I started graduate studies at a top 5 university - but similarly, everyone there was only there because of their drive in autodidactism, not because of their fantastic and nurturing undergraduate education.
+Share stories
+--- 21958483
+>>21957744 (OP)
+If you participate on /lit/ it's not entirely self-taught, it's more of a chaotic seminar.
+--- 21958590
+>>21958282
+Then why do we care about shit like a Presidential candidate’s college transcripts?
+
+As much as I want to accept that my degree doesn’t even matter, my adult experience tells me my poor record was a huge deal and always will be.
+--- 21958682
+>>21957744 (OP)
+Every time i meet a philosophy major i absolutely crush them in knowledge, and then I eventually overheard them talking to their friends talking about how smart I am lol. I chose math instead to study.
+--- 21958704
+>>21958590
+Who do you think gives a shit about that?
+Your poor credentials haunt you because you haven't accomplished anything else to offset that blow to your ego.
+--- 21958708
+>>21958590
+>Then why do we care about shit like a Presidential candidate’s college transcripts?
+It's just used politically to make them look bad
+--- 21958715
+>>21958682
+>Every time i meet a philosophy major i absolutely crush them in knowledge,
+Give some examples
+--- 21958724
+>>21957744 (OP)
+American universities are risible, my guy. As long as you do not have down syndrome and put a modicum of effort, you will get full marks. They’re glorified daycare centers
+--- 21958761
+>>21958704
+But what was I supposed to accomplish? I couldn’t get a good job. I couldn’t get into a grad program. I couldn’t even get an army commission. 
+
+>>21958708
+But that implies people care.
+--- 21958774
+>>21957744 (OP)
+You can learn pretty much anything by yourself but it is always easier and many times better to learn from professionals.
+--- 21958983
+>>21958761
+>But that implies people care.
+It implies people have a vague notion of school = educated = smart, nothing more. People have vague notions of anything, and media exploits them by spamming the same thing intensively.
+--- 21959710
+>>21958774
+>it is always easier and many times better to learn from professionals.
+Not really, today's professionals are pretty ill prepared.
+--- 21959893
+>>21958472
+>he's lying
+source: he's mentally retarded
+--- 21959924
+>>21957744 (OP)
+undergrad is a joke for everything, work is only difficult once you're in grad school lol
+--- 21959937
+>>21959924
+Uh oh, we got another newtrip. The lowercase variety. What's your thesis on little man?
+--- 21960057
+There are some master's/phd phil posters here. They're knowledgeable about their domain but outside of that they're pretty average. There are some more philosophically talented posters here but they're unpolished.
+--- 21960509
+>>21958282
+Cope
+--- 21960546
+>>21960057
+>There are some more philosophically talented posters here but they're unpolished.
+Does this include the german idealism anon?
+--- 21960563
+>>21960546
+No
+--- 21960571
+>>21960563
+--- 21960599
+All academics are frauds. There is no correlation between formal academic study and knowing what you are talking about, at least when compared with random cranks on the internet. The most you get from academics is Reddit tier showoff shit that is actually very shallow and limited. None of them have true curiosity. None of them maintain an interest in anything but their topic, and usually they suck at their own topic too since they just know one specific perspective on it and scoff at any other approaches to it, even the traditional ones they're hypothetically supposed to know as the background to their own research. I piss on academics, I will never respect an academic, I fucking despise academics (PhD Philosophy here)
+--- 21960610
+>>21960599
+I hate r/philosophy and u/wokeupabug is a faggot.
+--- 21960787
+>>21960599
+>PhD Philosophy here
+I can tell with 100% confidence that you're lying based on your post.
+--- 21961412
+>>21957744 (OP)
+I think that people say "philosophy cannot be self-taught" because it seems* that a huge proportion of people who are "self-taught" in philosophy are errant schizos who have no sense or respect for clarity, argumentation, careful reading, etc. Those are the kinds of things that are laboriously inculcated into undergraduate philosophy students.
+
+*Seems, judging by the quality and proportion of "self-taught philosophers" on /lit/, reddit, and the internet generally. This surely constitutes a significant selection bias/
+--- 21961528
+>>21959937
+i've been on 4chan forever i just forgot to take the trip off because i use it elsewhere jfc man give me a break
+>>21960599
+this has not been my experience but i can imagine it being that way at some of the worse state universities
+--- 21961551
+>>21960599
+Also a PhD in philosophy here. I basically agree with you. I suppose it depends on what you mean by "knowing what they are talking about"---that could encode an insanely high standard. And I think it's ludicrous to say that that they don't know their subject better than "random cranks on the internet." Whatever their faults, the average academic far exceeds that metric. But, of course you're right: the academic job market breeds shallowness, limited knowledge, idiotic specialization, lack of curiosity, lack of interest in other topics, undue confidence in a parochial perspective, etc etc.
+--- 21961558
+>>21961528
+I got my PhD at an Ivy
+
+This kind of midwit "I bet you aren't a REAL academic" / "ahhh perhaps you're at one of the... lesser schools..." shit is exactly what I mean, grad students are the epitome of people who just got in a club that hasn't even been worth being in for a long time, but they're so excited to be in at all that they start looking for anyone now technically beneath them to piss on. You can see this tone underlying every pontificating reddit post.
+
+Most disgusting class of people I've ever met, there is nothing more mediocre than a PhD student, especially at elite universities. They are empty people who don't even know their own subjects. Of the dozen or so ridiculous geniuses I met while getting my PhD, some were undergrads, most were dropouts or burnouts, but none were successful doctoral students. Fucking midwit central.
+--- 21961585
+>>21961551
+>Whatever their faults, the average academic far exceeds that metric
+My standards are roughly "what random PhD holders in 1970 could reasonably be expected to know," or at least extremely brilliant people who can think very quickly.
+
+For the people I've met in or around academia who meet this standard, see >>21961558. I met a few people doing doctorates who were clearly high-powered but they were always intellectually languid and "docile," incurious, kinda feminine and empty headed. Too many easy tasks and assignments, too much structure, heavily oversocialized. Their environment screams at them that all they have to do is sit back and passively enjoy the ride, do all the little tasks as they're assigned, wear expensive clothes and have faux erudite banter with other douches like themselves, and they're part of the Good Will Hunting club. 
+
+Then I meet a random crank on 4chan and he actually spends all his free time studying his subject, and he reads widely and deeply because he doesn't limit himself to what his idiot professors assign or what is "normal" in his milieu to read. He just reads. Or I meet some young kid who won't stop asking questions because he actually wants to understand and it isn't just about erudite banter for him. 
+
+I think academics are fine if you want 120-130 IQ people trying and failing to be the characters from the sitcom Frasier. Grad school is just where girls whose dads make six to low seven figures go to spend their mid twenties to early thirties, because they have nowhere else to be. It's been that way since the 90s. The men used to be more of a mixed bag but now they're all feminized sweatervest guys with HR personalities.
+--- 21961846
+None of the people above did a PhD in philosophy and it's obvious.

lit/21957781.txt

@@ -20,3 +20,1050 @@ The only thing is that the days feel so long when you've only got bad news to co
 --- 21957832
 >>21957819
 I'm 30 and this the only way for me to get social interaction with other people.
+--- 21958026
+>westoids live in huts
+>romans learn about greeks and copy them
+>suddenly westoids are relevant
+>they start wexplaining how their civilization is the greatest
+>they get raped by barbarians
+>westoids live in huts again
+>westoids learn about greek culture from byzantine refugees 
+>suddenly westoids have another le rennaisance 
+>they stat wexplaining how byzantine empire was bad and how their civilization is the greatest
+>they get raped by jews and atheists
+>westoids on track to live in huts again
+Why are they like this? They're always the class clown. They're backwards, they steal from others, then they become so full of themselves they crash and burn. Rinse and repeat. They never learn, they never grow up, they're the eternal manchildren of Europe. How do we solve the westoid qustion?
+--- 21958028
+>>21955936 →
+I completely disagree, with that particular section. In the case of that concert, I do admit some parts are too fast for my taste (such as the Introitus, Kyrie, Lacrimosa, and Communio).
+--- 21958059
+>>21958028
+The concert I refer to is this one:
+https://www.youtube.com/live/JasmgVIgRTU?feature=share
+The Requiem starting at 1:09:20.
+--- 21958065
+>>21957819
+19. This the only place I where can talk without a filter
+--- 21958088
+>>21958065
+You are too young, anon, your mind will be permanently poisoned by this place, if you continue to come here. Don't do it. Go outside, have positive life experiences, talk to people your own age (yes, even with a filter; it isn't that hard to watch your filthy retard mouth around nice people). Shut off your phone. Read books. Don't ruin your life taking passive influences from this hell hole.
+--- 21958101
+>>21958088
+>join the zogmachine goy
+>join le depressed zoomer hordes it's going to be fine
+>make a tiktok account while you're at it, consooom goyslop
+>kill your soul, enslave your body, become a npc
+>THIS will make you happy
+--- 21958110
+>>21958101
+If you are a zoomer, you are an NPC already so what do you care.
+--- 21958129
+>>21958110
+That's not true, NPCdom is a choice made out of fear. As long as you have a soul and spirit, you can be a real human being.
+--- 21958138
+There's nothing quite like those extra few minutes you spend sitting in your car before heading back inside.
+--- 21958149
+>>21957819
+Late 20s. Why not? It's the only public place where I can discuss my intellectual interests. I've tried every other major community pretty much. This is the only one that works. I've got banned more times than I can count and that was without saying forbidden things. People don't like it when they have to defend their views, when someone challenges their rhetoric, when they're intellectually dominated. Sounds corny but it's the empirically verifiable truth. Here at least if people don't like what I say they just call me a faggot or tell me to go back, but you don't get banned that easily and when you do it's just 3 days. I'm a man and I have a need to express my ideas. I have a need to explore and challenge. I've been here since I was 18 and it helped me get a foundation in the Western literary culture. But more than that it helped me stand up for my beliefs and not to kowtow to all the contemporary bullshit. I can defend all my views with confidence, I can't say that about most other people.
+--- 21958150
+Well, it happened.
+I lost control of myself and ended up making out with my sister the other day. We were in my car driving around and one thing led to another. I pulled into a parking lot behind an old high school and we went at it for a little while. She has little or no experience but she got the hang of it pretty quick. Her tongue was really soft but surprisingly long. I had a hand on her chest and a hand on her bra strap through her shirt, and she had a hand on my thigh, but then she got a phone call and I had to drop her off. 
+I have no idea how I'm gonna hold myself back any further after this. She clearly wanted to keep going and she kept giving me these bedroom eyes the whole drive back. We're both staying at my parents' house but we'll be home alone in a couple days.
+Anyway, the stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and all that.
+--- 21958158
+>>21958138
+Hot mamacita
+--- 21958184
+>>21958088
+I do literally everything you mentioned, I don't spend all day on here dude. I just like being able to express whatever viewpoints I want and listening to other people's unfiltered thoughts. It's impossible to have this irl, most people are NPC automatons that barely think about anything except what they're going to have for dinner and what's the hottest new goyslop trend on the block. The only person I don't consider a robot irl is my sister, I don't even enjoy talking to my friends anymore because they're so one dimensional.
+--- 21958190
+>>21958184
+>I don't even enjoy talking to my friends anymore because they're so one dimensional.
+You have to learn to talk to them about regular things or later on in life you'lll regret not having friends. Trust us and put up with your friends and maintain good relationships.
+--- 21958196
+>>21958184
+>most people are NPC automatons
+this right here means you are, in fact, the automaton--or turning into one, just of a different flavor
+--- 21958206
+If I had just done one thing differently, I would be in a lot better situation right now.
+--- 21958211
+>biography doesn't start with the birth
+Into the garbage it goes
+--- 21958214
+>>21958211
+what does it start with
+--- 21958227
+i'm afraid of the future. i'm afraid of the void that we're rushing headlong into, i read this short book on baudrillard and his ideas and it makes sense to me. and his notion that we are heading into a completely unreal, barren void of an existance is one i've been feeling and tussling with for a while now. on the one hand i feel like i want to pursue something and really delve into a specific career path or just something that i can put all my boundless fucking energy into (even though i realize i have very chaotic & neurotic headspace which has always made it difficult for me to pursue any 1 (one) thing), but delving into any one career path seemingly has no meaning anymore in this endless void of anything real. add on to the fact that choosing any 1 path in life destroys all the multitudinous other paths that are available. i've come to terms with many aspect of life, the boredom of it, the fickle & disappointing nature of other humans, the solipsistic nature of our own minds, the necessary lying one does in every aspect of life, i've come to terms with it all & i'm here now, just a 23 year old human being, literally just that, a human being like any other. i'm content with life, but i realize there's so much more, and i have great great great difficulty directing my chaotic, endless energy into anything other than just learning about things or making art. i have all these notions about society & work & career, but at the end of the day i'm not doing anything.. it feels like that anyway, but when i think logically it's not true, i learned how to produce songs, my photography & painting & writing keep getting better as i do it, if i do a fucking 6 month internship and finish three (3) classes of spanish i've got a bachelor degree in communication & media, which i'm sure i'll be able to do SOMETHING with, something, but what is something. i just cannot for the life of me decide on one path to take. what is SOMETHING. thesen notions about societ & work & career go like this: either just do a meaningless job (security, cleaner, menial labour sort of thing) and just make enough money to focus on things that i enjoy & think are important: my art/learning/drugs here and there. or i choose the path of a career along the lines of my bachelor. these days you can do anything though, i've been thinking of pursuing freelance photography, but again i find it so hard to stick to any one (1) thing. i feel like i need a mentor, some sort of fucking guiding hand that points me into the right direction. above all however, all these notions & paths are subseded by the RADICAL changes developing in our society. where we will be in 5 years is a complete mystery to anybody but the demiurge. where we will be as a society in 5 years is also something that is probably more negative than positive. a completely barren desert of the real. despite this lack of reality i have found many things i enjoy, drugs are the greatest thing ever, yes, the end
+--- 21958232
+>>21958190
+>You have to learn to talk to them about regular things
+I do, which is why we're still friends. It still gets boring.
+>or later on in life you'lll regret not having friends.
+I dont think this is true. I have regretted being friends with someone but I have never regretted not having friends. And I've seen many people close to me get fucked over by long time friends. I just don't think having friends is all that important, and it's pissy easy to get new ones whenever if you're friendless.
+--- 21958236
+>>21958232
+>I have never regretted not having friends.
+> it's pissy easy to get new ones 
+Yes, because you're young. When you're 30, you will be mostly left with the friends you've made and kept through your 20s.
+--- 21958237
+I'm staying in a high hotel for work. When I arrived at night I couldn't see anything out of the window and in the morning I didn't bother looking out until I was about to leave. Right in front was a beautiful tree blossoming in white and pink, the sun was shining directly on it, it was a really gorgeous sight. I was in a hurry but made a mental note to take a picture of it, I should've done it then but I was alresyd going through the motions and not thinking much. Thorough out the day the weather turned bad, it got really windy and started raining, by the time I came back the tree was almost completely stripped of the flowers and the rest were wet. It's been 2 days, it still doesn't look as good as it did during that first morning. It made me very sad and think about all these chances I have lost, how theres things that will never be as good as they could've been it feels like God gives me a these incredible opportunities every once in a while and I always fumble them, I've been very pessimistic.
+--- 21958253
+>>21958236
+Most single men in their 30s have practically no friends, whether they had them in their 20s or not.
+--- 21958257
+Recovering from these fucking missteps and this misspent time. I get jealous when I hear that the last few years since lockdowns worked out for someone. For me, it’s like life stopped.
+--- 21958262
+It feels like the game is over.
+--- 21958264
+I feel lonely
+--- 21958269
+>>21958253
+That's what you want to prevent. I have friends but only because I took care of my friendships. Now I see how hard it is to make new friends even if before it felt like a disposable resource.
+--- 21958279
+>>21958269
+I agree, but how realistic or desirable is it to maintain relationships into your 30s with people from your 20s that you might not even have anything in common with anymore?
+--- 21958288
+>>21957781 (OP)
+My life feels like a very slow correction orchestrated and engineered by God and I despair over parts of it yet love the whole. My soul hurts yet it's clean. Complaining doesn't help anything but sometimes the plan used to save me is so humbling, constantly, that it humbles my perception of it. Lord have mercy on my heart.
+--- 21958298
+>>21958279
+You have in common with them that you're both humans, it's not like you have to play video games togehter or discuss Kant. You can go out with them and experience being human, talking about family or marriage plans, work in general, even local politics, etc. It's a matter of maintaining contact with the experience of being human beyond interests or hobbies, it's more existential than this and a need that has existed and evolved throughout our whole existence. Basically just don't fuck up, be a good person, and forgive.
+--- 21958303
+>>21958288
+Do you really feel as if God cares about you personally?
+--- 21958306
+>>21958298
+Fair enough but I personally don’t feel as if my high school and college friends are particularly good for me. I didn’t get the chance to make friends early in my working career so that’s not an option.
+--- 21958310
+>>21957819
+I’m 30. To procrastinate and get some social interaction. I’m so fucking lost.
+--- 21958313
+>>21958303
+>Do you really feel as if God cares about you personally?
+Of course. God cares for and loces everyone personally, but He is more like a begging child who's invisible than a sky daddy. Just pay attention and, "Those He corrects He loves." Start praying, reading Scripture, and doing acts of charity and you'll see His presence very quickly.
+--- 21958318
+>>21958313
+I do all of that. Sometimes I feel like God cares but most of the time I feel as if He doesn’t care about me at all. I’ve started to feel like Calvin was right and there are an elect and unelect, and I just might be the unelect.
+--- 21958322
+>>21957819
+30, nowhere else on the internet to shitpost about literature and philosophy
+--- 21958326
+>>21958318
+>Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven.
+If you don't feel His spirit, it doesn't mean He's not with you.
+--- 21958328
+>>21958318
+Not that Anon but I feel the same. I know that envy is a cardinal sin but its hard not to feel when you're unelect.
+--- 21958336
+>>21958318
+The degree to which you have strayed is a strong indication of how much God will bring you back. I caused apostasy, was a very bad person generally, and may have made someone get an abortion (plan B pill), so my repentance was very thorough and strong and thus God's intervention was commensurable strong. The wisdom of Saints say that God loves people more than others, which I think is partly true when you say that God's love's intensity can be a type of love. I prayed to be a saint because of how much I loved Him. If you don't see His love, frankly, it's most likely Him saying you don't need correction. God does not need me but He just knows I'm a horrible servant. The founder of the Pauline Society once said, "I know if God had found someone more unworthy than me he would have chosen him and rejoiced over it."
+--- 21958345
+>>21958328
+>>21958318
+God washes "the feet" of society. If He has not washed you then it means you're not the moral dregs of society and are actually decent in His eyes. I did not have that privilege.
+--- 21958350
+>>21958306
+Why are they not good for you?
+--- 21958353
+>>21958336
+>>21958318
+It's like the parable of the wandering son.
+--- 21958363
+>>21958353
+>It's like the parable of the wandering son.
+Yeah this. God made some people who, frankly, and if you look at priests, would be misfit useless wanderers if not for him. It's a rare priest or Jesus freak who would have been well adjusted without Him and this is not that priests, bishops, and saints are better but frankly it's the opposite, they are the ultimate slave class and they rejoice in it.
+--- 21958366
+>>21957781 (OP)
+I want to move to Europe but am afraid of the logistics.
+I don't mind learning another language but how will I make friends? How will I have conversations outside of the basic "hello how are you" tier stuff? When I have kids, how do I raise them to be bilingual? What job will I have?
+--- 21958367
+>>21958350
+My high school friends mostly ended up as drug addicts, vagabonds, are in prison, or dead. My college friends have jobs and careers but they’re all heavy drinkers and/or drug users. That or they have steady girlfriends or wives and just aren’t interested in doing anything g.
+--- 21958372
+>>21958345
+So I have to be a dreg to feel the presence of God in my life? How is that just?
+--- 21958382
+>>21958367
+Perhaps they'll change with time. I have friends who are drug users too, but I don't really see the issue with it. They're not really influencing me at all; if anything, I influence them to be less depraved but even that is done passively as I'm not trying to tell them how to live. Obviously if they're not interested in doing anything then they're not friends so it's not that important. But if you do have real friends, I don't think it should matter too much if they're drug addicts as long as you yourself are strong enough to stand your own and not get influenced. I hang out with anyone and I try to be kind to everyone, they sometimes reach to me for advice too, I think it's just important to maintain your link to humanity regardless of the state it's in. You can be a positive influence and that's important for your humanity too.
+--- 21958385
+>>21958336
+I came back to God a few years back already. I feel like I’m stuck in a cycle. When I was in my early 20s, I would cry out to God, pray, beg for a sign or some direction, but I never got anything. In my mid-20s, I fell into occultism and paganism. I started praying to pagan Gods, offering sacrifices (not people or animals), and everything. In my late 20s I realized my error and came back to God but I feel like I’m back in my early 20s, still crying out for God’s providence only having to repent at the same time. Yet, still I feel I get nothing. Nothing lasting anyway. I feel so lost, man. Sometimes I feel like my life was discarded for some reason, not physically but in an existential sort of way, like there’s just nothing for me but spiritual wandering and desperation.
+--- 21958387
+>>21958382
+I wasted my life drunk and high until I was 25 and I’ll never do that again. I have no interest in people who wallow in drugs or alcohol. I want my life to matter and to to not be drowned in a bottle.
+--- 21958391
+>>21958382
+There is one friend who invited me to his wedding but I turned it down. I think he felt we stopped being friends after that. In truth, I couldn’t afford the trip or the expensive registry gifts.
+--- 21958403
+>>21957819
+Late 20's. I like it here. I wish you all who read this a beautiful day.
+--- 21958409
+I desperately want to be someone else.
+--- 21958412
+>>21958403
+Based Dr Chud
+--- 21958462
+>>21958372
+>So I have to be a dreg to feel the presence of God in my life? How is that just?
+No. Read the parrable of the prodigal son or the parable of the day laborers or the lost sheep or lost coin. It isn't a dreg is the only one that is loved but the overwhelming signs of God's goodness goes to those who need it to be overwhelming.
+--- 21958488
+Remote work has been terrible for me. It’s just turned me into a lazy NEET. Now I have all this wasted time.
+--- 21958497
+>>21957819
+Not the poster, but follow-up: From what age did you start frequenting /lit/?
+--- 21958521
+> dream another dream
+Is unacceptable advice
+--- 21958546
+The world might be such a complete disaster and disorganized so inappropriately that the most competent people have no interest in it. When you look at politicians, for example, and you realize that these people are study bugs, careerist strivers, materialistic egotists, and generally buffoons, you can only ask yourself “where are the smart and authentic people”. What if they’re sitting at home playing Xbox?
+--- 21958559
+>>21958521
+I DREAMED A DREAM OF TIME GAMES BY
+WHEN THEY WERE HARD AND UNFORGIVING
+I DREAMED DLC WAS JUST A PHASE
+I DREAMED THAT DEVS WOULD BE RISK-TAKING
+
+THEN THEY WERE WERE NEW AND UNAFRAID
+AND CONCEPTS WERE MADE, USED, OR TRASHCANNED
+THERE WAS NO PAID STUFF ON THE DISK
+NO COSTUME LOCKED, NO FIGHTER ABSENT
+
+BUT THE KOTICK CAME AT LAST
+WITH HIS IDEAS, ALL RENT-SEEKING
+AS THEY TEAR YOUR WALLET APART
+AS THEY TURN GAMING TO JJJJJJJEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
+
+GAMES FILLED MY SUMMERS AS A KID
+THEY FILLED MY MOM WITH ENDLESS NAGGING
+THEY TOOK MY CHILDHOOD, FUCKING KIKES
+BUT THEY WERE RICH AND STOCKS WERE RAISED
+
+AND STILL I DREAM THEY'LL MAKE A GAME
+THAT WE WILL HAVE LAUNCH VERSIONS FINISHED
+BUT CASUALS WON'T LET IT BE
+AGAINST MASSES OUR DEMANDS FALTER
+
+I HAD A DREAM THAT GAMES WOULD BE...
+SO BETTER THAN ALL THESE REHASHES
+MUCH BETTER WITH TECHNOLOGY
+NO
+
+COD...
+HAS KILLED...
+THAT DREAM...
+I DREAMED...
+--- 21958649
+>>21957781 (OP)
+>Write What's On Your Mind
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+>You know you're retarded?
+Yeah, I know that haha
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+>I wish I had someone
+ha! get fucked
+>fuck you
+fuck you too
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+>The more I leave my cave, the more obvious it becomes how utterly inept I am and how I should go back inside
+faggot
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+The FN FAL was a rifle made in the 1950s
+>shut it shut it shut it I'm tired of talking to you
+You nigga, there's no one here but you
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+Place the rifle in your left shoulder, thumb the disasemble lever on the left, slap it on the right
+Place your hand over the top cover and slid it back, cover the front of the bolt carrier with your index finger and put the assembly back
+>fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck
+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
+I'm tired of talking to myself fuck
+>me too
+--- 21958686
+I alternate between wanting to move to the city, get a better job, maybe get a graduate degree, run for office, start a business, try to leave behind some sort of legacy, and buying a patch of land in the country going full cottagecore until I die anonymously.
+--- 21958711
+>>21958497
+25. Never used this site before then and came straight to this board.
+--- 21958726
+>>21957819
+25... this is the least bad book place...I use 4chsn almost exclusively for this board.
+--- 21958869
+>>21957819
+iunno, i'm 32 now I use to come in and out for some things or to get meme'd on for making Alice in Wonderland threads, outside of that being in this general has probably been the longest consecutive time I've been on here. I actually like helping the depressed anons in here because they remind me a lot of myself.
+--- 21958882
+I feel like I've run out of directions to move in. It's over.
+--- 21958886
+Do you think it's possible to write in a letter something that would lessen the burden on a family left behind by suicide?
+--- 21958905
+>>21957781 (OP)
+I took my parents to buy them a new fridge.
+I really can’t give them more than what little affection is writhing in my frozen over heart and the occasional splurge in the form of a new purchase.
+My mother is thrilled.
+I’ll be installing the water line and getting the filter going when they deliver it tomorrow.
+I looked in the mirror and there’s a fourth color in my hair: grey.
+It’s more prominent now.
+My mother would tell me her hair went grey well before 30.
+I’m 28 now.
+Right on track.
+
+The bags under my eyes don’t go away.
+It really takes away from my looks, looking so tired, sad, depressed even.
+Im not depressed, at least I don’t think so.
+Suicide and death are always on my mind but suicide is never an option for a release.
+Suicide is a choice for either the very strong or the very weak. I guess I’m neither.
+
+Eating the same breakfast everyday is not exciting. At least it’s nutrition that gets me going.
+I can’t stand eating the same lunch everyday, even though I do. Something about being fully awake and looking down at the same sandwich makes me feel crazy.
+Maybe I am.
+I’ll get something from the cafeteria today.
+
+The scratch on my car is a horrible blemish which is nothing more than a constant reminder of my stupidity.
+It’s the third blemish on my new car.
+I’m hoping it’s the last.
+It probably isn’t.
+--- 21958940
+I have noticed there are few anons who into Epistemology phase, they went into it right after their existential crisis. Same thing happened with me. From mid 2020 to early 2022 I went into deep epistemology/Wittgenstein phase. 
+
+Oddly comforting and strange period of my life.
+--- 21958981
+>>21958940
+>Epistemology phase
+>Wittgenstein phase
+Explain?
+--- 21959006
+>>21957819
+25
+I'm a loser and my life sucks
+--- 21959013
+>>21958345
+>actually decent in His eyes.
+Im in the worst place - not a normal but not a dreg too.
+--- 21959014
+>>21957819
+>35
+>long term NEET and this site scratches an itch others cant
+--- 21959017
+>>21957802
+/lit/ is his gf and this is the lying Cretans paradox
+--- 21959018
+>>21957781 (OP)
+>Jesus super sad
+>life is suffer
+>in desert with no cheeseburger 
+>tfwngf 
+>he’s just like me!
+Edition
+--- 21959025
+I'm in so much despair. I just can't seem to feel better no matter what I do. I'm struggling so hard to identify a positive direction to move in.
+--- 21959029
+I'm feeling too much too intensily. I don't know if this is just a natural symptom of growing up or if I'm developing a personality disorder or if I'd always been like this I'm just becoming more aware of my tics thanks to therapy literacy. 
+There's a final hypothesis which goes that my anxiety/depression are back. I seem to have forgotten the annoying crippling symptoms because I'd been on meds for two years and even though I liked to complain that the meds did nothing they actually managed the constant annoying distracting chatter in my head. I legitimately cannot function.
+--- 21959034
+lel
+--- 21959054
+>>21957819
+25. Seems like this board is full of pretentious idiots and their posts make me laugh. Funniest board for me honestly. Lukewarm iq people thinking they are smart
+--- 21959065
+>>21958026
+Roman civ was started by Greeks dumbass. Didn't read the rest
+--- 21959073
+>>21958981
+I went into existential crises existential crisis because I failed at knowledge, I was more confused than I started my "journey", after this I had a full blown mental breakdown and I was admitted to a hospital. During that period the concept of multiplicity and solipsism seriously started fucking up my brain, it is the only time when I genuinely felt that I was losing it. My life started feeling like a dream to me and then I started gravitating towards this epistemology when some anon recommended me that I should finally suck Sextus Empiricus' dick and become a proper fag. I wrote, read a lot and listened to many lectures. And found that Wittgenstein's "silence" is the only "answer". I have discovered same thing in Quietism, Gorakhnath, Schopenhauer, Beckett, Pessoa etc. It is minimal and sterile but almost complete. 
+
+It was genuinely comforting and philosophy for the first time gave me the protective warmth of a mother I was happy to wake up every morning and as soon as I woke up I started writing or started listening to music or listening to lectures on Skepticism and Wittgenstein. Witt also dealt with Solipsism. Sometimes I use to stare at the wall for hours. So anons also helped with certain epistemological questions.
+--- 21959074
+>>21959065
+It was started by Etruscans. You obviously don't know how to read, so it's best you stop completely.
+--- 21959113
+>Nothing beyond existence stays constant.
+>Nothing beneath existence stays.
+This simple philosophy filters all /lit/
+--- 21959149
+>>21959073
+How could guys that were prolific writers from a young age and all their lives say that "silence" is the only "answer"?
+--- 21959166
+>>21959073
+Anon... I think you spend too much time in you head, you should go do or have at least 1 or 2 practical hobbies (I'm assuming you exercise, if you don't I would add that too.)
+--- 21959190
+>>21959113
+>a belles lettres way of saying "things change"
+Yes they do Anon, we all know this innately, even if we consciously forget.
+--- 21959200
+>>21959073
+What were the books you read that put you into y our existential phase and what books got you out?
+--- 21959208
+>>21959149
+Beckett said something like every word is a stain on Silence, Wittgenstein said "Explanations" come to an end somewhere which he took from the last passage of Schopenhauer magnum opus. Gorakhnath has a stanza on silence in which he says listen with your ears, see with your eyes but don't say anything from your mouth. 
+
+There is one thing to know something. But "Silence" clicked when I read those writers. I know and they knew how contradictory it is to talk about silence and how instead of staying silent your write. I understand what's the problem is. 
+
+>>21959166
+Thanks for your care but it's too late anon and I like staying my head, world is too cruel.
+--- 21959212
+>>21957781 (OP)
+> ⱼesus edition
+--- 21959223
+>>21959200
+Unfortunately no suggestion. My lurking was very spontaneous. But add UG Kirshnamurti and Hume or some posts by occult anons to list and then I think it is nice way to tap into that realm. But most important is doing random contemplation by your self and staying there. One time I felt that I save felt ineffable in bunch of golden threads. 
+
+My existential crisis is back though that's why I called it a phase.
+--- 21959231
+>>21959208
+>and I like staying my head, world is too cruel
+My problem isn't that you are in your head, my problem is that your too "unbalanced". Call it humors/chi/energy/vibrations or w/e the fucking new buzzword is for it, my point is that we are animals that have 1 foot in the physical and 1 foot in the metaphysical. You aren't balanced, your too over to your metaphysical side and you need at least 1 hobby you like doing that is purely physical.
+That being said, Yes the world is cruel, but exposure therapy always works. The more you encounter it, the more you endure it. The reason you hide in your head isn't because of the nature of the world or people as so much as your nature has been nudged too far over to the metaphysical and you are unsure of your physicality. Its common for people to run to which ever side they lean on, but to go completely into one side at the detriment of the over will compound and hurt you mentally and physically. By staying on your side you are compounding interest that will, eventually, unload onto you on the metaphysical side causing a lot of the problems you spoke about earlier.
+I don't know if someone can know or will every be perfectly balanced, its okay to lean, but lean too far and everything falls.
+--- 21959278
+>>21959208
+The're still hypocrites. They were never silent.
+--- 21959296
+Is it me, or does life just suck now? I spent most of my life unmotivated to do much of anything, to work particularly hard at anything. At first, I didn't understand why but the older I got the more I started to feel like it's how unnatural anything is, how all achievement and all action comes from behind a computer screen, how there's basically nothing to do, nowhere to go, how real life seems to almost not even exist anymore. How can someone get excited to live their life as a data analyst, a lawyer, a student, or a spreadsheet jockey? How can they call anything in those contexts achievement? Is it really just me?
+--- 21959312
+>>21957819
+Late 20s. All of my friends stopped talking to me so this is my only outlet for social interaction.
+--- 21959327
+>>21957819
+35 and it contains the regular sperging I do about literature and the arts.
+--- 21959332
+>hate my job
+>friends tells me to just quit and leech off my parents while learning to code
+>even if I could do that, I know from past experiences that coding isn't for me, and everything I have seen online points to it being a dead-end for people who dont haven even the slightest interest in that stuff (basically, you would be stuck competing against pajeets)
+
+I'm just waiting for death at this point
+--- 21959337
+>>21959296
+>s it really just me?
+Kinda, what your feeling is normal, natural, and large amounts of people are feeling it. People generally find an answer to this problem or they don't. If you haven't read any of Miyamoto Musashi's philosophy or books about his life his answer is to simplify life and pair down. Keep in mind he was in Ancient Japan and he talks a lot about what your saying in general. But his philosophy was to file your life down to a point. A lot of people file themselves down to a square or blunted tip, they try to do everything at once and end up doing very little. However, if you follow his advice, you file away distractions and unnecessary parts of your life until your are as sharp as a blade, in sacrificing everything you don't need you become capable. Capable to carry out your role in society, capable to change your path, freer than most because the wants and desires you have tamed and tamped down are no longer like anchors around your feet. You are freer than most, more capable than most, and just in that alone, more dangerous too.
+I suggest you look at your life and consider what you would need for the bare minimum, do not throw out obligations and duties you have to you family or other people. People you are not "bound too" (aka friends) keep them if they do you good and have a use, get rid of them if they do not. Understand that it is okay to use people like tools, but like "sentient blades" you must still treat them well and with respect that is due to them. Cut out what your are willing to cut out, see if it works for you for a month to a year. If it helps continue, if it did not, you now have a slightly more simple life you can now use all that free time to try something else out.
+>>21959332
+Do a Cisco cert, takes 6 months, costs 1k, if you have a college degree you'll be in an office job by the end of it.
+--- 21959347
+>>21959337
+Not the OP, but what is the endgame with Cisco certs. Basically just IT support?
+--- 21959360
+>>21957819
+26. It's an addiction at this point.
+--- 21959380
+>>21959337
+I've felt this way for years. I don't think it is natural. When you look around and pay attention. And I mean really pay attention. What you see are entire generations living basically like livestock. They're hooked up to phones and computers in the exact same way that dairy cows are hooked up to milking machines. It's sort of ridiculous to even mention Musashi, a man who spent his life physically doing things with his body and his sword, and his hand. You couldn't even do that today. The only role you have now is to strap into a desktop and crunch some numbers.
+--- 21959383
+>>21959332
+How old are you?
+--- 21959384
+I have a good life, quite a lot of money, multiple genuine friends, a car, a house of my own, and everything else I am supposed to want and have, and all I can ever think about is these horrible cliches ("what's the point of all this?" - "why should I bother?"). 
+
+I am not even assaulted by interesting philosophical demons! I have only drawn the boring ones.
+
+Why is everything simultaneously so infinitely detailed and endless, and yet all completely boring?
+--- 21959393
+>>21959013
+It sounds like you are very into pitying yourself
+--- 21959403
+>>21959337
+>if you have a college degree
+lol
+>>21959383
+I'll turn 27 this year
+--- 21959410
+>>21959403
+Do you have any sense of what you would do if you could do anything?
+--- 21959417
+Nothing can compare to Infinite Jest
+--- 21959493
+>>21959347
+IT specifically internal Network and switch support, you can go up to network engineer and just maintain systems, which means you spend a lot of time alone doing nothing and they only really need you when something goes down, pays pretty well too.
+>>21959380
+>You couldn't even do that today.
+Do what? Be a ronin samurai? Sure but you can still be active and do something physical, I wouldn't recommend martial arts because its kind of a meme in the West outside of boxing, archer, and fencing. If you don't want to do those there are tons of physical hobbies and jobs you can do.
+>>21959403
+>>if you have a college degree
+Yeah only downside is that a lot of companies prefer you have a 4 year degree, any degree, just a degree. You can maybe get by with a 2 year degree, and you would have a hard time but could do it if you didn't have a degree and they are desperate for one. I honestly have no idea why they require a degree outside of them probably getting governmental kickbacks for hiring college grads.
+--- 21959501
+>>21959393
+>very into pitying yourself
+I guess seeing the reality is pitying myself.
+--- 21959511
+>>21959493
+You can do something physical as a sort of hobby, but if you haven’t noticed the world we actually live and work in is inherently digital. I’m not talking about hobbies here. I’m talking about vocations, professions, jobs. Just look how different our lives are. Look how much being a technician or a technocrat factors into success in any field now. Even soldiers are liable to spend most of their service in front of a screen now.
+--- 21959521
+>>21959410
+I think I'm too depressed to think of anything. I had yesterday off and spent most of it in bed.
+--- 21959576
+>>21957819
+24. I have nowhere else to go
+--- 21959583
+>>21959521
+Well, you’re going to have to think and use your imagination to describe some thing you’re inclined toward. Otherwise, I can’t help you.
+--- 21959586
+I have a phrase I say to myself. "No illusions." It means that I should stop imagining things I'll never have or fantasizing about things beyond my reach, and also to give up any feelings of wasting my life or missing out because of that. 
+Sitting here thinking about how I'll never have my idealized romantic relationship with a cute girl who likes me for who I am or whatever will only hurt me. If I've come this far without making significant relationships of any kind, then it's probably just not meant to be - my temperament and personality just aren't suited for intimacy or socializing, no matter how much I try and force things. It's better to just focus on the things I can do in my life, to try and quietly live according to my values, to look for ways to humble myself and do good to balance out all the negative things I've done. If I spend my time acting and moving towards these goals, then I'll never be caught thinking about the past, wondering about things no one can know, making myself sad or angry or regretful because of memories or fantasies that exist for no one else. No imagining things. No trying to be what I'm not. No illusions.
+--- 21959587
+>>21957819
+21. I'm writing my first novel. I come here because I learn a lot about literature.
+--- 21959616
+>>21959587
+Man, I would do anything to go back and be writing my first novel at 21. At 21, I was stacked up in a 3 person bedroom failing at university spending my free time drinking, playing video games, and browsing the internet.
+--- 21959620
+You know, I always felt like I was meant for something great but now that I’m older I realize the best I can hope for is “turning things around” or “making something of my life”. 
+
+What a fucking disappointment.
+--- 21959655
+>>21958227
+See a Pastor
+--- 21959657
+Sometimes I read about Lenin or Mussolini or Hitler or Dostoevsky or Baudelaire or Hemingway and how they led such active lives, how they got involved with this or that organization, and this or that political group, and this or that cafe and salon, and this or that publication. And then I realize that /pol/ and /lit/ are the closest thing to modern equivalents, but that sort of biography will never come out of here because it’s just talking. It’s not a physical group, a physical meeting. No one will ever know and it’s like it never even happened. Cyberspace overtook real space and displaced history in the process.
+--- 21959679
+>>21959511
+Iunno man, believe it or not I've only ever done labor jobs and that is after getting a 4 year degree, so I'll agree that the world is getting more and more digital but I've still managed to live a pretty simple life landscaping despite that. Its out there, you just have to find it. Get out of the city if you can. Plumbers, Electricians, and a couple other craftsmen are still 100% necessary, electricians and plumbers even more so because they manage and understand critical infrastructure.
+--- 21959709
+>>21959583
+I guess my problem is thinking like this anon >>21959586 except I ended up labelling every kind of life but the one I'm currently living as a fantasy.
+I spent my youth telling myself that I wasn't interested in creative stuff because of the "starving artist" meme. Nowadays I write and draw as a hobby but I know that if I suddenly got rid of the need to make a living, I would still be too afraid to do any of those full time.
+
+Also, I'm not expecting you or anyone else to help me. I should be the one helping myself, but I just can't be arsed. Feels like I will only be able to give a shit after my parents bite it, but by then it might be too late.
+--- 21959715
+>>21959616
+How old are you now?
+--- 21959721
+>>21959679
+But these are things that are this way only because they haven’t been digitalized yet. We can’t all aspire to be landscapers. That’s not life. That’s not a world.
+--- 21959738
+>>21957819
+27. I don't know anyone IRL who I can talk to about literature, philosophy, religion, etc.
+--- 21959744
+Dentist told me to start scrubbing my tongue harder and deeper, and the constant gagging and discomfort has given me a newfound appreciation for those in this world who suck penis, shoutout to all the penis suckers out there, you work hard and put up with a lot
+--- 21959754
+>>21959721
+Landscaping is easy, anyone can do it unless your disabled, I've even worked with obese people who could do the work.
+>That's not life. That's not the world.
+for many people it is and there is nothing wrong with that. Seeing the world for the sake of seeing it is seen as a noble thing, but I'm beginning to think its more and more a weird cope people with excess money do when they don't really have any deeper meaning in their life.
+--- 21959771
+>>21959709
+So do you want to do something creative? Before I asked you if you had any idea of something you wanted to do but now you’re sounding regretful for not being creative.
+--- 21959773
+>>21959715
+I just turned thirty.
+--- 21959780
+>>21959754
+I misspoke. It’s not that there’s anything wrong with being a landscaper. It’s that you can’t have a whole world of only landscapers. It takes all kinds, and people have all kinds of inclinations. For some of those inclinations, sure you can get away from the screen and using your body or whatever but for many of them you simply can’t.
+--- 21959815
+>>21959709
+I'm the opposite and rather impractically went all in with art. Maybe it's a cope but when the other aspects of my life don't pan out (I've never had a gf), I think to myself "well, at least I can draw". Art was really a pain in the posterior for the first four years, but ever since I've been able to derive progressively more pleasure from it.
+--- 21959817
+I don't get it. Whom do Asians hate and how do we stop the Asian hate of them?
+--- 21959828
+>>21959744
+You can train yourself not to gag
+t. cocksucker
+--- 21959832
+>>21959815
+Here’s the truth. It was always possible, likely even, for you to end up broke and without a girlfriend even if you pursued something more practical. Except now, they don’t even have their interest to enjoy. That’s the fucking sick joke that was played on people who did pursue practical paths.
+--- 21959833
+Why Catholism (and Christianity by greater extent) is all about suffering? Why do bad deeds happen to good people and bad people are lucky?
+--- 21959840
+I sometimes find myself in the part of the internet where people talk (among other things) about JBP as if he is still some kind of visionary who has come to the aid of millions of "young men" 
+I want to be polite to these people, but I simply always disagree with their assesments on almost everything. 
+The biggest of my gripes with them is that they still unironically believe that cleaning your room will lead to paradise. Somehow. 
+It's supposed to be a individualisy approach to self improvement. 
+But I have a simple question, how in the fuck is cleaning my room going to make my relationship with my dad better? See? It's a two people problem not a one person problem. 
+
+Its like they are pathologically unable to see problems among a group.
+--- 21959841
+>>21959833
+Have you ever read a Gospel? It's about Christ carrying his Christ and being martyred by jews. Life is suffering and suffering is death and death is resurrection and resurrection is salvation.
+--- 21959843
+>>21959817
+Asians in the modern West are one of the most accepted communities in history. They must have an extremely narrow frame of reference if they pull the persecution card. I say this as an Indian from China; my own neighbours didn't accept me even though I was born there and they were my childhood friends
+--- 21959844
+>>21959833
+>all about suffering
+Because to know right and wrong you have to suffer
+>Why do bad deeds happen to good people
+Opportunity for compassion
+>bad people are lucky?
+You can always give someone more rope.
+--- 21959846
+>>21959841
+>carrying his Christ
+Cross*
+--- 21959850
+>>21959843
+Asians are beaten up by blacks but they're too scared to say it so no one cares
+--- 21959857
+>>21959771
+Dunno. These past 3 years I have felt drawn to creative hobbies but maybe I just like the idea of being a creator. That's why I have a hard time bringing that up whenever someone asks me what I want to do with my life.
+--- 21959867
+Pseuds. I've been thinking about pseuds for the past thirty minutes. Everyone has their own mental definition of one, and most people know when they've met one. Only now does it occur to me that we live in a society designed for pseuds. What do I mean by that? I define a pseud as someone who pretends to be more educated or more intelligent than they actually are through some manner of artifice. They skim a few articles on wikipedia for party conversation, stuff their conversation with a few big words, and pretend to understand topics that they absolutely do not understand. Most people do this to at least some degree situationally, but pseuds make it an all the time thing. Why do they do it? Social status within a group, or possibly for economic reasons. You could define a pseud as someone who habitually pretends to some educational or intellectual status for socioeconomic reasons. If you do that though, and that's your definition, then just who is a pseud?
+
+Well, just about every college kid who cheated their way through classes. Every legacy student who passed through their parent's school with plenty of "academic help" from their fraternity or sorority's test bank. Every college student who only sought a bachelor's degree or higher for vocational training rather than the pursuit of knowledge. If you take that broad a definition of a pseud, then we live in a pseud society. Every corporate empty suit at every major company is a pseud. Every degree seeker hoping for economic advancement is a pseud, depending on how well they understood their classes. Everyone flexing their alma matter socially when they're a legacy student or only thrived on "academic help" is a pseud. The moment that education became a primary demarcation of social class in modern society we doomed ourselves to be plagued by pseuds.
+
+Why are pseuds so offensive to the sensibilities of the intellectually gifted or the scholarly? I think it's because on some level those people understand that they're being robbed by pseuds. There is only so much social credibility in the pool for intellectuals, and that pool has been systematically robbed by groups of people who are neither inherently gifted nor possessed of a scholarly mindset. On some level you understand that both your social and economic capital has been robbed by inflation by this plague of pseuds. It's more akin to the effects of counterfeiting, if anything. In a society that can't distinguish its brightest or its knowledge seekers from pretenders, being bright or scholarly has had the value mined from it by layers and layers of counterfeiters at every level of society.
+--- 21959871
+>>21959867
+I'm an anti-pseud. I act like I don't know anything and BTFO everyone as soon as they get cocky.
+--- 21959873
+>>21959867
+>He's too pseud to piss off pseuds
+>Instead other pseuds piss them off
+One of my great joys in life is sperging out at pseuds like they genuinely wanted to go down the rabbit hole they opened until they screech
+>Nobody really cares about X anyways! 
+I care, buddy, and I'm going to keep emailing you for months now we have a professed shared hobby.
+--- 21959876
+>>21959871
+>>21959873
+>railing against pseuds
+>lashing out at pseuds interpersonally
+>doesn't realize that the pseuds are the product of a society that rewards simultaneously rewards counterfeit scholars while mass producing them
+--- 21959878
+>>21959876
+What does this have to do with me BTFOing pseuds?
+--- 21959880
+>>21959876
+>caring about this when you could be emailing your frens about corruption in the 19th C world of train magnates
+You're living wrong, fren
+--- 21959889
+>>21959878
+You rail not against pseuds, but against a society that has conspired to rob you.
+
+>>21959880
+To the contrary. The notion that society has institutionalized and stratified academia, only to institutionalize the robbery of academia, is possibly one of the most fascinating topics of the 20th and 21st centuries.
+
+If you start with the 50s, then we're past seven decades of a very fascinating sociological phenomenon.
+--- 21959898
+>>21959889
+>You rail not against pseuds, but against a society that has conspired to rob you.
+You're projecting because you yourself are not intelligent enough to think outside of your own condition. I don't care about society robbing me because it cannot do it. My worth is not in spouting intellectual crap to people, I do honest work.
+--- 21959922
+>>21959898
+If you believe that then you are a fool. You are robbed economically because pretenders dilute the market for opportunities and drive up the cost of education. You are robbed socially because the position of scholar is socially meaningless when academic achievement is a game of social dress up played best by people who are not scholars and have no interest in the scholarly.
+
+Pretending that these things do not bother you because you are too blind to care, or too enlightened to care, is akin to what Nietzche calls slave morality among the Christians. And by lashing out against pseuds you prove him correct: you enjoy needling them because you understand that they have robbed you, but to acknowledge the robbery is too painful for you to consciously do.
+--- 21959927
+>>21959857
+It’s fine if you have that inclination though. You should use it as a clue. Pursue that.
+--- 21959932
+>>21959922
+>You are robbed economically
+I don't care about money
+>You are robbed socially
+I don't care about social points
+>Pretending that these things do not bother you 
+They don't
+>And by lashing out against pseuds you [...]
+Projecting.
+
+Here's the truth buddy: you're a pseud. You're unintelligent, you can only project because you have a narrow understanding of life, and your social analysis is teenage-tier. It's embarrassing. You're just upset that more charismatic pseuds are stealing the bread of more autistic pseuds like yourself. This is a pseud war betwen you and your pseuds.
+--- 21959939
+You're all pseuds
+--- 21959942
+>>21959780
+Yup, it takes all kinds. My point is that there is always something you can do to change how you feel about life. Change of job, change of lifestyle, reprioritization of goals, getting rid of excess. There are many ways to the same goal, the point of a lot of "practical philosophy" like Stoicism, Utilitarianism, and more is that there are multiple ways to get to the same end. For the majority of humanity, the more complex the life or the society they live in, the more anxious you get. There are very few who would be content with working 12 hour days and there are equally few who flourish in chaos. Either way, You should sit down and take a look at your life and maybe come up with some goals if you feel listless or maybe your the kind to take a whole year off, rent a cabin in the middle of nowhere, and write/do whatever you want for a year. I don't know, but I do know that the "general human template" if you want to call it that is simplicity, reflection/meditation, supportive social connections, and a purpose.
+--- 21959953
+>>21959871
+Before I ask this question I want to preface this by saying this isn't a shitty "Gotcha!" question as much as I am curious about your answer to my supposition:
+What if the person just made a mistake or misremembered? How do you tell someone who is a pseudo from someone who just genuinely made a mistake? Also, is this the kindest action that you can do for someone who is a pseudo? What if it comes from a lack of self-worth or meaning so they go all in on something they think they are or want to be?
+--- 21959954
+>>21959932
+>I don't care about money
+>I don't care about status
+>Projecting
+>You're unintelligent and your social analysis is teenage-tier
+
+You're human with psychological and physical needs. Money and status contribute to fulfilling those needs, and only when those needs are fulfilled can you pursue actualization as a need. That's basic psychology, literally Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You say that I'm projecting, but the only people I've responded to are people who have claimed to enjoy "BTFOing pseuds" and driving them to misery in response to the post that I wrote about what was on my mind.
+
+You have resorted to ad hominem because, presumably, you are angry. Something about my posts has angered you. I leave it to you to determine what that is.
+--- 21959972
+>>21959954
+>You're human with psychological and physical needs. Money and status contribute to fulfilling those needs, and only when those needs are fulfilled can you pursue actualization as a need.
+nta, but you don't actually need money and status to self-actualize. The model is general in the most wide and general sense of the word. He could be telling the truth that he doesn't care about money and status, if your never going to have children and you want to live alone why bother making loads of money and have everyone know who you are? Seems antithetical to what you want to accomplish if you are one of those people.
+--- 21959976
+>>21959889
+>To the contrary. The notion that society has institutionalized and stratified academia
+Well, if your sense of history focuses entirely on a weird series of myths told in the US, then yes I can see how you don't know about examinations in China or India or England and so on have done the same thing over hundreds of years. However, I would contend why you've been made purposefully ignorant while given a sense of enlightenment is a sociological phenomenon but not a terribly interesting one, especially if you have the Chinese imperial exams on the table.
+--- 21959977
+>>21959953
+>What if the person just made a mistake or misremembered?
+I can tell because I judge intentions not what they actually say.
+>Also, is this the kindest action that you can do for someone who is a pseudo?
+No, but I'm not going for the kindest action.
+> What if it comes from a lack of self-worth or meaning so they go all in on something they think they are or want to be?
+They should do it via honest ways then.
+
+>>21959954
+>more projecting and wiki psychology
+You said I'm BTFOing pseuds because they rob me. I'm saying you're projecting. They're not robbing me of anything. I have a job, people need me. At the end of the day, people need someone who gets things done, and that's not pseuds, it's me. They're not robbing me of anything, I don't seek praises, I can get by with what I make from honest work.
+--- 21960010
+>>21959942
+I’m probably going to kill myself soon, dude. I’ve done the whole sitting down and looking at goals thing and what I see just depresses me. I don’t really see a path forward anymore. That doesn’t change what I said though. I do think it’s true.
+--- 21960106
+>>21960010
+>I’m probably going to kill myself soon, dude.
+I do not recommend, that is a permeant solution to a temporary problem. I've been down that bad too, its always darkest before the dawn. 
+>I've done the whole sitting down and looking at goals thing and what I see just depresses me.
+What do you see? Why does it depress you?
+>I don't really see a path forward anymore.
+Funny thing about paths is that you don't need to be on one to be going the right direction.
+>That doesn't change what I said though. I do think it's true.
+multiple paths same conclusion, its a beautiful thing but your path will always be your path. You can read and have people guide you but ultimately you have to walk it.
+
+Best advice I can give is get out of your head as much as possible and to get out of your hole you need to start digging sideways. Its hard as fuck to do, and its frustrating because it doesn't seem like your going anywhere to begin with. But if you keep on doing it you will get out of that hole with time, things do get easier if you keep at them.
+--- 21960119
+I don’t really hate you. You know that I never could. I wish I could hate you as much as you hate me, because then I wouldn’t be in so much pain from missing you. I’m sorry.
+--- 21960121
+>>21958184
+You sound like a loser, kill yourself faggot.
+--- 21960126
+>>21960119
+It's ok chud, she doesn't even think about you anymore, she found someone better
+--- 21960135
+>>21960126
+*he. And you don’t have to remind me of that.
+--- 21960154
+>>21959332
+what's the job and what do you hate about it?
+--- 21960164
+>>21960106
+I used to think it’s always darkest before dawn but you get to a point where you wonder if dawn is going to come, you know?
+
+I think I would have to go into this whole story about it and I better not. At this point, this so-called path of mine feels like failure and I’m starting to lose hope. 
+
+Anyway, none of this was really about the topic.
+--- 21960189
+Who's worse? Atheists or pagans? On the one hand, the former have no conception of the divine so they're quite far from truth. On the other hand, although pagans have a notion of God, it's so messed up they easily end up doing demonic things. I think it's a tie so you have to consider it on a case-by-case basis.
+--- 21960195
+>>21958088
+its not that fucking bad calm down
+--- 21960200
+I made eye contact with the abyss, and you know what it said?
+--- 21960216
+>>21960154
+Too lazy to go into detail, but it is a small business owned by my dad, so my job description is "whatever need to get done", no set hours, etc. In exchange, I get to live with my parents basically for free. The problem is that I wouldn't survive at the kind of jobs I can get, and I dread the thought of going back to school, so I dug my own grave.
+--- 21960217
+>>21960200
+sneed?
+--- 21960244
+>>21959709
+>Also, I'm not expecting you or anyone else to help me. I should be the one helping myself, but I just can't be arsed. Feels like I will only be able to give a shit after my parents bite it, but by then it might be too late.
+I had a beautiful thought on this perplexity earlier while walking my dog but didn't write it down while thinking I should. I can't remember what it was now, FUCK.
+--- 21960287
+>>21960216
+I quit an office job I hated and am now learning to code and it's not going tremendously well. Working for a family business doesn't sound all too bad but I'm sure there's more to it.
+--- 21960334
+>>21957781 (OP)
+I have never been scared by any horror film I've watched. Recently, my father and I went to see The Pope's Exorcist in theaters, as it was supposedly based on a true story. However, I had little expectations and wasn't confident that it would be a documentary, unlike my father. As a result, I can't say that I was particularly disappointed.
+
+From the very beginning, the film was over the top. As soon as the boy was revealed to be possessed, people were flying into walls and others were climbing on walls and twisting their heads. The film reached a comical peak when the person performing the exorcism became possessed and was levitating in some medieval lair beneath the building. The floor opened up and the walls glowed red. Everything was resolved in just a minute, when the other priest said a few chants and apparently caused the demon to give up. I rolled my eyes.
+
+Why do so many horror creators rely on these cheap tricks? Why do they think that people climbing walls and levitating are inherently scary? Reality itself can be terrifying, so why do they feel that they need to create something that is completely unrealistic to make it scary? Spending less on special effects and more on good writing wouldn't kill them. For me, when something is too unrealistic, it ruins the immersion and reminds me that I am watching a film with actors.
+
+In a related vein, I don't believe that visuals alone are enough to create horror. I often visit /x/ and /r/creepypasta, where there is a plethora of "scary images." I recall someone even posting a thread on /x/ asking for pictures that would drive someone to suicide. Is it any wonder that most people who consume this kind of material are likely underage high schoolers? To me, in order for me to call an image scary, there would have to at least be a story behind that image.
+--- 21960351
+If I had to impersonate a book character, I would be Meursault as we share the same history and outlook on life. I am a terrible son, and I really know I am, but there is nothing I can do about it. I don't feel any drive to become a better person, although I would like to. It's as if something essential was missing, and it's just making me uncomfortable to realize all of this now.
+
+I am unmistakably human, so why am I unable to willingly give love, or attention, or care to anyone? I have two living parents and two adult brothers and even a niece yet I don't spend time with any of them. They send me messages but I never feel like answering back. I force myself once in a while because I know there is something wrong with me but it's getting harder to ignore as I grow older. It can't be hormones as I'm not some angsty teenager, I'm soon to be 25.
+
+I've never been to a psychiatrist, but I think it's just plain apathy and that I'm perfectly normal if we were to exclude my antisocial behavior. Sometimes I just want to tell all of them I have autism or invent a similar lie so they can go "Oh I see, you're retarded because of your brain and that's why you never come home!" and not feel bad about being dysfunctional family members or whatever. I don't even know what family talks about. I have nothing to say most of the time and just react to outside stimulations. Anyways, I felt in line with Meursault and the ending of that book really struck a cord.
+--- 21960380
+>>21960216
+Are you American? If so, run for office. I’m deadly serious about it. The GOP loved family business owners and workers. That’s the bio of multiple congressmen and senators. You don’t have to run for Congress though. You can run for like city council or state assembly.
+--- 21960385
+>>21960189
+I prayed to Odin for like a year. I made a little altar in my apartment and gave offerings. I eventually snapped out of it.
+--- 21960401
+>>21960164
+Well like you said there are many paths, I doubt you have tired any of the hardcore ones, I don't see the point in yeeting out of life when you could try something more drastic to change your life for the better.
+Want to work less?
+Easy, figure out how low you can get your living expenses then start working part-time.
+Want more money?
+Easy, if you have a college degree, your already half-way there just get a cert in something that you think you might like that is in high demand in your area.
+Want to change your job?
+Easy, if you don't have a degree, get one. If you have one see above.
+Feeling like nothing matters and everything is pointless?
+Perfect, the absence of a grand design (in your opinion/personal truth of course) means that no matter what you aren't really doing anything wrong with what your doing now. Sure you can react to this with sadness, but you can also react to this with relief. You aren't bound to anything, you can do what you wish.
+--- 21960414
+>>21960189
+Pagans, I'm assuming when you say "Pagan" you mean the antiquity religions and the neo-antiquity ones like Wiccans. Mainly because its a huge LARP. Much of what we knew about the antiquity religions is lost or piecemeal, especially their metaphysics. Neo-antiquity religions like Wiccans, Attraction Theory, and w/e else other shit that is out there have a really weird and obvious "modern vibe" to them that I can't really put my finger on. There's a lot of corporatism about it, as in people trying to sell you shit, but when you read their literature... ...I can't really put it into any real words other than it feels very "modern", like its a lake that looks deep only to find out its 2ft deep the whole lake kind of façade.
+--- 21960429
+>>21960414
+I don't know, that may also be lack of interest/research on your part. A lot of the magick people borrow from Kabbalah and Hermeticism or Rennaissance magic.
+--- 21960448
+>>21960351
+could be low testosterone
+--- 21960453
+Went on a date to a bookstore last night with a really nice, highly educated, and artistic girl. We had a lot of fun. She asked me on a third date but for some reason it still didn't feel like she was that into me. I ended up turning her down just for my own sanity and not having to torture myself about how much she actually likes me. So anyway I'm all depressed and I wrote a little dog-shit Tumblr tier sad post:
+
+“I’m just browsing.” You wander the barely organized aisles. Columns of the distilled beauty, the chaos, the randomness of the universe. Holding up a roof. Holding back the gray sky drizzle. Against that listless descent.
+
+You probe with your eyes. Reach out your hands. Grasp at it. You can even hold it for a minute and turn it over in your hands. But you’re just browsing.
+--- 21960456
+>>21960429
+Keep in mind that Kabbalah is actually rooted in removed books from the Torah and other ancient Hebrew mysticism. Hermeticism is a Hellenic twisting of the Greek Pantheon and Egyptian Pantheon through Hermes and Thoth, which is then twisted back into Judaism and Christianity because via similar themes and character arcs. Also, Hermeticism and Renaissance Magic ties back to Christianity due to Christians embracing the Desert Father sect of their religion which usually ended up with them revealing or hoarding texts that may or may not be considered heretical and magical in nature.
+--- 21960465
+>>21957819
+25. Self-hatred, autism, and narcissism.
+--- 21960467
+>>21960453
+Remove your emotions from dating or learn to control them. If she likes you or not, you really shouldn't care. I'm not saying to be a dick to her but realize that she is gonna be on the "you train" until she finds someone better or gets bored and she hops off. Which you will never really know until you date.
+--- 21960495
+>>21960456
+What's your point?
+--- 21960498
+I can’t even begin to describe what a mistake it was working in higher education with bad undergraduate grades.
+--- 21960499
+>>21960495
+...Seriously?
+--- 21960500
+>>21960401
+Well, this is the thing. I’m not even sure what paths are left to me. I think about where I’ve been and where I am and then I think about where I want to go, and I just don’t see any obvious thing to do that gets me there. It’s like I botched things too badly already.
+--- 21960503
+>>21958497
+teenage years, so 10 years ago
+--- 21960504
+>>21960401
+I don’t feel relief in thinking that I’ve been abandoned to some sort of pointless fatalism. My whole life all I’ve ever really wanted was a purpose. I found that, but I found it far too late to really live it to its fullest.
+--- 21960505
+>>21960499
+Do you even have a point at all?
+--- 21960506
+>>21957819
+40, I have nothing better to do than this or go to my job. I might go "outside" once in a blue moon, but dating prospects are dry (women am I right, guys?) and I guess I just like reading a lot,
+--- 21960523
+Do you think joining the military is really that bad of an idea right now? I’m struggling to identify something else that would be worthwhile.
+--- 21960524
+>>21960500
+Its only too late when you give up. But considering you won't really disclose what you want to do I can't really give you any more help.
+>>21960504
+Is it abandonment if there wasn't a Grand Plan to begin with? Also, learning to love your fate and knowing that you can nudge it if you do something helps as well.
+>I found that, but I found far too late to live it to its fullest
+see above and life is malleable enough where you get to define what "full" is if it doesn't suit you. Also, I don't think the purpose of life is to live it to its fullest, to support civilization and society a degree of drudgery needs to be taken on by everyone and those that take the most are pretty noble in my opinion.
+>>21960505
+jfc, my point is that they aren't Pagan. The answer was staring directly at you.
+>>21960506
+>but dating prospects are dry (women am I right, guys?)
+I'm 32 and I've gave up on dating in my early 20s and haven't looked back and I'd have to say its really benefited me.
+--- 21960528
+>>21960524
+>jfc, my point is that they aren't Pagan.
+But they are. Anyway, you're clearly an idiot so there's nothing to discuss.
+--- 21960545
+>>21960528
+>But they are.
+would you say that the uncanonized books of The Bible and Torah are Pagan?
+--- 21960548
+>>21960524
+Yeah I think there never having been a grand plan is as bad as abandonment. To never have had a destiny at all might be the worst possible scenario.
+--- 21960551
+>>21960545
+Its not worth it Anon, he is a pseudo, the fact that he just called you and idiot and left because he knew he was wrong shows it.
+--- 21960554
+>>21960545
+Like I said, you're an idiot. In the most general sense, pagan is anything that is not not Abrahamic or established major religions (heathens). In the stricter sense, pagan is anything that is not Christian. In any case, people mixing Kabbalah, Hermerticism, and other traditions is paganism. It doesn't matter what they claim legacy from, it's entirely relevant to what paganism is.
+--- 21960558
+>>21960551
+>tranny joining from the side
+Sucking his cock won't get you good boy points, bitch. That is if you're not samefagging.
+--- 21960567
+>>21960545
+https://orthodoxwiki.org/Paganism
+>Orthodox Christianity generally ascribed the term paganism to religions other than Christianity.
+--- 21960573
+>>21960554
+>Like I said, you're an idiot.
+>Goes on to define what Pagan means but "it doesn't fit my definition so it doesn't count"
+Seething that I exposed you as one huh? Also, if you were smart you would know that Christians are the true Jews for one and for 2 the Hebrews used a different word for pagan but they did have a word for it.
+>>21960567
+>Orthodox
+Oh, your part of the Church of Satan, makes sense you have all these wrong definitions
+--- 21960580
+>>21960573
+>pagan mindless screeching
+Classic
+--- 21960589
+>>21960580
+I'm not pagan, I follow God, unlike you. Also your mind is so addle led by Satan that your own article disagrees with you.
+>Anything that is not ascribed to Christianity
+Makes it really awkward for you Orthodox bro, considering you guys dabble in the Kabbalah the most out of all the mainline Christians.
+--- 21960591
+I guess an MA in History would ironically be a waste of time?
+--- 21960595
+>>21960591
+If you want a job, iunno probably
+if you did it for fun, nah
+--- 21960598
+>>21960589
+Again, you mistake books for religions. That's why I called you an idiot to begin with and that's why you remain an idiot. Christianity freely borrows from platonism and neoplatonism all they wish (just like Catholics borrow from aristotleianism). This doesn't mean anything since the faith is fully Christian. Also we don't borrow anything at all from Kabbalah.
+--- 21960602
+>>21960598
+>Orthodox
+>Main Prayers come from the same books that the Kabbalah does
+>Practices Hesychasm, literally the same prayer as the Kabbalah's
+I will not suffer such Satanism and lies to go through unfiltered.
+--- 21960604
+>>21960602
+None of these are true. The Jesus Prayer literally has the trinitarian dogma in the first sentence.
+--- 21960774
+>>21960591
+I'm still trying to figure out what isnt a waste of time
+--- 21960788
+Im bored and wanna talk about something but I have nothing to talk about
+--- 21960834
+> 30
+> lame as fuck work history
+> terrible degree, terrible grades
+> poor mental and physical health
+> living with mother for last 2 years 
+> keep getting denied to graduate programs
+I’m getting so close to calling this a wrap.
+--- 21960897
+le paranoid man
+--- 21960914
+Persona 4 and Pyncheon
+--- 21960922
+>>21958214
+>biography starts with the creation of the universe
+--- 21960977
+>>21957781 (OP)
+>Be in 30s
+>Realise wife has been covertly abusive the whole time I've known her.
+>Actually she was openly abusive since HS and bullied me but does it covertly after.
+>Basically bullied me that I never made friends then after HS became nice to me out of the blue and steered me away from making any relationships outside of her
+>Love her heaps yet in still somewhat scared of her after all these years
+--- 21961010
+>>21960914
+I wouldnt worry about it
+--- 21961093
+>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoFSUNSBNWo [Embed]
+--- 21961140
+>>21960834
+Sounds like you need a total rethink brother. Something completely different. Move towns and get a job as a line cook or something. Sure it might not be the future you envisioned for yourself but you can't really do much worse than you're currently doing by the sounds of it. Do you think things will improve if you make it into a grad program? A total recallibration is what is needed.
+--- 21961142
+>>21958196
+>no u
+--- 21961152
+>>21960591
+I would say only if you have a very specific idea you want to pursue and think you could genuinely contribute to the scholarship on that topic. Otherwise, yeah.
+--- 21961157
+>>21957781 (OP)
+Σώσον, Κύριε, τον λαόν Σου και ευλόγησον την κληρονομίαν Σου, νίκας τοις βασιλεύσι κατά βαρβάρων δωρούμενος και το σον φυλάττων, δια του Σταυρού Σου, πολίτευμα
+--- 21961188
+>working out for a month
+>still dont look like arnold Schwarzenegger
+Wtf man
+--- 21961192
+>>21960977
+Nigga you been on this larp for months now
+--- 21961201
+>>21960834
+move laterally, i'm in the same position as you. Go to your local community college, ask if they keep analytics on what the local economy needs and what is projected to grow. Pick out one that you like or seems the most bearable/interesting and do that. Also, I don't know who did this but legally you don't have to give your GDP on resumes unless they are an academic institution so take it off. If your asked for it and you have the balls lie and say its good, if you don't have the balls just say "I'm a very private person, I don't think its appropriate to give my GDP to a non-academic institution" almost always people will drop it because they don't give a shit. I was only ever asked once what my GDP was and I told them that and they dropped it.
+--- 21961230
+>>21961201
+>GDP
+Gross domestic product?
+--- 21961240
+>>21961230
+GPA, Iunno where GDP came from.
+--- 21961257
+>>21961240
+Thats good because I have a shit GDP personally
+--- 21961264
+>>21961257
+lol, same
+--- 21961285
+I'm kinda a loser and while I stew on mistakes I've made I mostly dont care about others perceiving me as a loser because I hate everyone. This is kind of liberating
+--- 21961295
+How are guys supposed to even be successful now? Everything is filled with or prefers women or is gay.
+--- 21961305
+>>21961201
+I really don’t give a fuck about jobs anymore, dude. I’ve never wanted a particular job. I don’t want a particular job now. Whatever pays the bills is fine. I have enough to move out, but I’ve been trying, and failing, to save money. I just wish I had better grades so I could do some other things. I wish I had some success with writing earlier on. I try to stay positive but it’s tough lately.
+--- 21961370
+>>21961305
+if a job, is a job, is a job for you just get any job. I usually give jobs a year before I bounce. My last two jobs I left because they were filled with Hispanics of questionable legality (specifically El Salvadorians) that are ill willed and racist as fuck if you aren't Hispanic or can speak Spanish and will make your life living hell everyday and if you do anything back to them they run like little bitches to tell management. Then both of these companies' are surprised when I just fucking quit on a dime and they can't seem to keep anyone.
+--- 21961378
+>>21961370
+I forgot my point, lmfao:
+My point being, if you stick for a job near a year and the problem ends up being either management or the employees are the majority of the stress you deal with, quit. The stress they put on top of you isn't worth the pay or the aging it does to your body.
+--- 21961410
+>>21961188
+Time to start shooting test
+--- 21961430
+I'm very heavily considering killing myself. I live very comfortably, I'm basically a stay at home spouse and I mostly sleep and clean and do some hobbies to keep busy, but I'm so fucking dissatisfied and unhappy and I don't know why. I've always thought "once I'm done with school, once I'm married, once I'm stable in my own life, then I'll be happy" but here I am and I'm not. I'm so depressed... I'm too embarassed to talk about it with anyone publicly but I don't know what to do. It's not like I'm sad, maybe deeply dissatisfied, but I dont even want anything else. Everytime I get close I remember that passage from dante's inferno where he says all the souls of suicide victims get stuck in the trees in hell, and it scares me, but I feel like it's over. It feels a bit selfish but my spouse is young enough to remarry and I bet they could find someone, maybe that would be better for them. I got handed life on easy mode and yet I think my brain is just fucked
+--- 21961460
+>>21961430
+Hey, I'm a 32 years old and I've been posting all day in this, most of the posts that mention the age 32 are me. As someone who was medicated, going to therapy, and was told my my therapist that "there will likely be no cure, only management" and that "I was highly likely to an hero myself so we are putting you through an emergency program" that the whole:
+>I'll be happy when I achieve/do X
+is a huge lie, your operating off of what is known as the Hedonic Treadmill. The Hedonic Treadmill, in a nutshell, is that when you achieve/get something you want, its never enough and another want appears. You can easily see if you characterize each want as a "step" on the treadmill how they naturally seem to queue up over time. You'll end up going faster and faster to get to higher and higher levels of achievement but it will never be enough. The best you can do is manage it.
+That being said, ignoring the suicide thing for now, what exactly is depressing you?
+--- 21961524
+>>21957781 (OP)
+I don’t know how to have sex and i’m scared.
+--- 21961529
+>>21961524
+Scared because of performance or scared because you don't know how to do it?
+--- 21961532
+>>21961529
+Both unironically.
+--- 21961548
+>>21961532
+life is more than sex, you'll do fine
+--- 21961561
+>>21961460
+Thanks, I think I am on the hedonic treadmill, that pretty sums up the way I am constantly chasing achievements and never feel satisfied, it does seem to be "speeding up" or just coming to a head. I want to slow down and settle into my life, to feel peace, but there's a deep sense of anxiety and "it isn't enough". My life is settled into being pretty much set so I've been chasing that satisfaction with hobbies, but they never seem to be enough. Just hard out there...
+--- 21961570
+>>21961561
+Seems like you may have an outer locus of control, what do you think drives your need to achieve? Is it to prove to yourself or someone else something?
+--- 21961595
+>>21961548
+>who cares about sex
+Great advice.
+--- 21961599
+>>21961524
+Me too but Im 30 and this comes off as childish at my age.
+--- 21961602
+>>21961595
+No, I'm being serious, there is so much more to life than just sex. Your suffering because you are obsessing over it.
+--- 21961608
+>>21958196
+Shut up faggot. Zoomanon is correct, a truly high IQ is a rare trait.
+--- 21961616
+>>21961602
+Well I want to be good at it. I don’t want to laugh at myself for being bad.
+--- 21961617
+>>21961599
+I’m 33 anon. I know.
+--- 21961630
+>>21961617
+Are you just v or full khv? Also, what happened? Never tried?
+--- 21961650
+>>21961570
+I think to prove myself, or to make people see me and appreciate me. I dedicated myself to one of my hobbies hardcore for a while trying to get better, and eventually I did get decent enough to get praise and make a little side change on it, and once when I received a really good compliment, one Id been chasing, I realized I didn't feel happy. If anything I just felt "this isn't enough" and I burnt out, I still occasionally do the hobby but not for cash and there's a strong sense of "what's the point". I just want to feel validated but nothing seem to work
+--- 21961667
+>>21961630
+I actually had sex when I was 23 a couple of times. Once I couldn’t get it up and put it in and another time I managed to get it in but it lasted a few minutes and didn’t feel all that good desu. I think I was traumatized by those experiences and avoided ever trying again. Completely killed my confidence. Now I’m just scared to try again.
+--- 21961685
+>>21961667
+Atleast you're capable of getting sex with a girl....
+--- 21961697
+>>21961685
+So overrated. You’re truly not missing out. I wish I never had honestly. Now I just stress over how terrible I am at it. How embarrassing I don’t even know how to perform like a regular human being. I wonder if this is normal and everyone doesn’t even really like sex.
+--- 21961708
+>>21961667
+nta
+>>21961630
+I am khv. I did actually got hugged when I was 27 but it still tugs on my heart that I am a KV and so is my twin brother. We are both autistic, him more severely than me. When you are a twin, it is so important to know that you are on the same page, but unfortunately my brother is not on the same page as me and we do not understand each other. He is a PUA (pick up artist) and he likes picking up girls and I think its very, very wrong. So we don’t understand each other. We have issues with communication and our moral code is different. I am a Christian following the advice of St. Peter, and he is a misogynistic pig in shit.
+--- 21961772
+>>21961697
+Most of the time yes it's not very good but repeated exposure to the same person makes it better. I've never had a good casual encounter except once but I think they were just a natural at it, that seems really rare though
+--- 21961786
+>>21961772
+>casual encounter
+That’s all I’ve ever had. Maybe there is hope. But I’m still traumatized by it all and get panicky when I’m close to having sex with a girl. I just avoid and self sabotage.
+--- 21961796
+>>21957781 (OP)
+I got through reading Blood Meridian and I am truly stumped. I feel like I am missing the point because to me I haven't found any. It just seems like a series of events where a bunch of characters end up doing horrible shit and that's it. I read online reviews and the only thing people praise it for are it's use of prose and the fact that Cormac McCarthy writes in a unique way (as in he writes a full page in one paragraph). There is no mention of a greater philosophy or overarching themes except what the judge could represent but everyone I talk to can't agree on what that exactly is. It just seems like a thinly disguised torture porn and a distasteful waste of time.
+--- 21961855
+>>21961650
+Maybe you don't need validation. Maybe you think you need validation but in reality what you are doing is the emotional version of popping a painkiller than finding what the root of the problem is. If you aren't I recommend a clean diet, get 10 minutes of sunlight a day, walks, and exercise.
+--- 21961982
+>>21957781 (OP)
+I don't think I enjoy porn like I used to anymore. I got a massive headache from masturbating earlier. I think I'd rather read more honestly.
+--- 21961986
+>>21957819
+21. I wanted to find some decent recommendations and maybe get some writing advice. I also don't have social media, so this is my way of communicating with people online.

lit/21957882.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,141 @@
+-----
+--- 21957882
+>writes the best example of gothic/sci-fi at the age of 20
+How did she do it?
+--- 21957885
+>>21957882 (OP)
+>How did she do it?
+With the help of her brilliant boyfriend Percy Shelley.
+--- 21957887
+>>21957882 (OP)
+>happens to be married to one of the leading literary men of the era
+sus
+--- 21957890
+The premise was written by Byron and it's unclear how much her husband was involved with the book (of course it's <0.01% according to current academia).
+--- 21957895
+>>21957882 (OP)
+god damn why is this bitch so annoying?
+--- 21957907
+>>21957895
+Women are interesting only if they’re attractive or completely deranged. This 5/10 is popular because similarly unattractive and dull college hoes want to be as popular as her.
+--- 21959120
+>>21957882 (OP)
+By being the daughter of two brilliant people of the revolutionary age.
+
+>>21957885
+Spelling corrections, I guess. 
+>>21957890
+No no. They were all to come up with their own spooky stories. His didn’t win, hers was declared winner. 
+>>21957895
+Must be your autism
+--- 21959133
+>>21957882 (OP)
+>Mary Shelly
+Step on me
+--- 21959146
+>>21957882 (OP)
+>>21957895
+She looks like she has down syndrome
+--- 21959157
+>>21957882 (OP)
+Percy wrote it
+Dasha is so fucking ugly
+--- 21959173
+>>21959146
+And yet, you write like you do 
+
+>>21959157
+>pretty woman ugly 
+>misogynist take on classic lit
+Drown yourself in the toilet, kid. It’s not getting better for you
+--- 21959183
+>>21959173
+>And yet, you write like you do
+>and yet
+We have a downie here, everyone
+--- 21959189
+This is my favorite video of Dasha
+--- 21959201
+>>21959183
+>Why, this phrasing is positively archaic!
+>NO U! 
+
+You don’t even read books. 
+What was it, Harry Potter?
+--- 21959226
+Imagine if you grew up in a world that actually cared about literature, with parents that cared about literature, and where life itself was conducive to writing great literature. Now imagine a world where you have books rammed down your throat with progressive points, where single mothers don't care what happens to you, and where the only thing anyone cares about is how you look and how much money you make.
+--- 21959357
+>>21957890
+She never wrote anything as remarkable in her life so I suspect Percy had a much larger role in writing it than academics claim
+--- 21959363
+Frankenstein is not the greatest gothick novel
+In fact it's pretty middle of the road
+The Monk and Melmoth the Wanderer are up there with the greatest gothick novels ever written
+--- 21959377
+>>21957882 (OP)
+>How did she do it?
+By putting her name on it after Percy did.
+--- 21959391
+>>21959201
+I agree with >>21959183. You're retarded. Also, Percy wrote Frankenstein (just like Capote wrote To Kill a Mockingbird) and Dasha's looks are the same as her intellect: well-polished but mid.
+--- 21959424
+>>21957890
+>>21959357
+>>21959391
+Unsubstantiated bullshit. You all seem to suffer that early twentieth century illness. Die in obscurity. 
+
+>>21959363
+Awww, you like something else. Isn’t that neat. Start a thread about it sometime. Maybe it’ll catch on someday.
+--- 21959425
+>>21959424
+You have never read a Gothick Novel in your life
+--- 21959426
+Why are RSP simps insufferable retards? Is it a necessary condition to be exactly like the hosts of the podcast you listen to?
+--- 21959451
+>>21959425
+You do not understand what the phrase means. 
+Much less that it’s mostly subjective what’s best.
+--- 21959455
+>>21959451
+You clearly know fuck all about Gothick literature if you've never read the Monk you fucking retard
+Frankenstein is not a Gothick novel. It uses Gothick trappings but it is not Gothick
+--- 21959461
+>>21959426
+The pod is bad, but their sub is one of the few cool places left on the internet (and better than lit desu)
+--- 21959477
+>>21959424
+>expert examines the manuscript...
+>"uh, he only seems to have written about 7% of it so it's not a big deal"
+>YASS SLAY QUEEN!
+>examines it more...
+>"oh wait, his contributions are actually quite substantial"
+>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
+>"I have to admit it's an open question...we can't prove Mary was the main contributer and despite our best effort and motivations we see evidence that it was Percy"
+Kek.
+--- 21959481
+>>21959455
+>Frankenstein is not a Gothick novel. It uses Gothick trappings but it is not Gothick
+It's good to know I'm not the only one who thought 'WTF' when that faggot described Frankenstein was a Gothic novel. It really isn't one.
+--- 21959485
+>>21957895
+Because she’s a prime example of the modern day grifter.
+--- 21959490
+>>21959461
+Kill yourself
+--- 21959822
+>>21957895
+Because everything about her is performative and not genuine. She invokes cool shit but makes it all about her own overly manufactured persona and ruins it in the process. In short, she's what millenials referred to as a hipster.
+--- 21959837
+>>21957882 (OP)
+Percy wrote it
+--- 21961149
+>>21957882 (OP)
+Her husband wrote it. /thread
+--- 21961156
+I think it's important that we all take a step back now and then on /lit/ from our normal posting and remind any visitors from reddit, be they posting or lurking, that they really MUST kill themselves immediately.
+--- 21961302
+No one who has read that book would think a man wrote it, much less a man with age under his belt. It has the monster learning English by listening at a cottage for a long time and even learning to read by overhearing and what’s more that is a random rant in what he hears about the rights of women and Native Americans. The book also random goes on long praises of Paradise Lost and Sorrows of Young Wurther, for some reason the first books the monster reads, which goes beyond mere allusion and forces us to see the plot as connected with them. The novel has all the marks both in style and content of being written by a very gifted and precious teen or young woman.
+--- 21961361
+>>21957882 (OP)
+I hate that fucking powerposter, he's such a fag.
+rs is nice as a /lit/ retirement home but it's still reddit and has gay-ass power users, boo!

lit/21957953.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,147 @@
+-----
+--- 21957953
+Show me your cursive, /lit/erates.
+--- 21957971
+>>21957953 (OP)
+i can't write in cursive
+--- 21957972
+>>21957953 (OP)
+>cursive
+>every letter is upright
+You missed the task
+--- 21957985
+>>21957953 (OP)
+Other than scrawling my initials when signing things, I haven't written in cursive since elementary school.
+--- 21957990
+Fuck class, gender, race, age. The real divider in contemporary society is whether you can write cursive or not. 
+As far as I'm concerned getting rid of cursive handwriting is part of a wider dumbing down of education.
+--- 21957996
+feels weird writing in english
+--- 21958002
+>>21957996
+a more natural display
+
+ps. I think I'm gonna miss a deadline
+--- 21958201
+>>21957953 (OP)
+>>21958002
+>>21957996
+american education system
+no further comment
+--- 21958331
+>>21957972
+Here though.
+--- 21958340
+>>21957953 (OP)
+This is the Navy Seals copypasta
+--- 21958341
+>>21958219
+Def best one so far.
+--- 21958347
+>>21958341
+Danke
+--- 21958349
+>>21958340
+Truly the Lorem Ipsum of 21st century.
+--- 21958357
+>>21957953 (OP)
+--- 21958358
+>>21958238
+Make a proper z if you're gonna be a slav
+--- 21958362
+You can tell a lot about a nigger based on his cursive. Some of you niggers are pretty high IQ. The fact that you're wasting it on this board is kind of tragic.
+t. low IQ
+--- 21958370
+>>21957990
+Dropping cursive is a good illustration of the ongoing degradation of disciplined study, in which training yourself no longer applies. Perfect if you want to breed a society of passive half-moron sleuths. Actually - dropping cursive is the exact same mechanism as "body positivity" movement: worship of self-derangement by the means of scaling down and toxic self-gratification.
+--- 21958381
+>>21958357
+Female hands wrote those words.
+--- 21958398
+>>21958381
+Nah, too angular and passionate
+--- 21958496
+>>21957953 (OP)(OP)
+--- 21958509
+>>21958496
+You lack strength and confidence
+--- 21958514
+>>21958509
+you're right anon, i'm should get better in that regard
+--- 21958518
+>>21958514
+>i'm should
+ffs
+--- 21958601
+What did ypu just say yo me you little bitch, I have you know I studied somewhere snd am top of the vlass snd have been on secret missions and got 300 confirmed kills (I am paraphrasing thanks to my poor short memory and thsts why it isnt word for word). I am a Serb, so my Cyrillic is natural, even if this is a Russian Cyrilic.
+--- 21958687
+>>21957953 (OP)
+--- 21958725
+>>21958549
+Quality, you should be proud.
+--- 21958827
+>>21957953 (OP)
+Is this the Navy Seal copypasta written in Cyrillic? In English it seems.
+--- 21958914
+>>21958357
+single good one itt
+--- 21958918
+>>21958827
+Yes. Russian Cyrillic in English and with obvious mistakes like instead of И'лл (I'll), they wrote И'll, mixing Cyrillic and Latin.
+--- 21958938
+>>21957953 (OP)
+One thing i notice is that people who either try to show off their 'cursive' or spend extraordinary amounts of money on fountain pens and ink usually have bad handwriting 
+Kek!
+--- 21959379
+>>21958918
+You do realize written and print Cyrillic look different?
+--- 21959484
+i dont have a pen
+--- 21959535
+Last time i had to write cursive was around a month ago. I had to sign a paper which would ruin a life of a guy just like me and everyone on this board, if it were to be signed by everyone in the apartment. Needless to say everyone has signed it.
+--- 21959540
+>>21957953 (OP)
+Voilà
+--- 21959687
+>>21958201
+post country
+--- 21959993
+>>21959379
+small л in cursive isnt do tall and it wont have a loop at the top....cursive л isnt same like vursive l in size and shape and before cursive л there will be a small stroke. Cant send you a photo because the dumb app breaks
+--- 21960006
+>>21959379
+I now see the super small strokes on cyrilic ls, but they are still too tall. Small ls in cyrilic are no taller than other small letters which confused me. No, they arent that tall even in cursive and they are usually lot more blunt at the tip, not like г in cursive, pore like п in cursive but in half.
+--- 21960207
+>>21959379
+I worded it as a small comment. Sorry if it came off as agressive, maybe I was jndeed a bit rude. I apologize to the op. I am happy my peoples letters are being used. This post made me happy.
+--- 21960215
+>>21957953 (OP)
+I hope op wasn't offended by my nitpicking. Great penmanship.
+--- 21961799
+>>21960207
+None taken. Cyrillic is a beautiful alphabet to train elegant handwriting.
+--- 21961801
+>>21960207
+Forgot the fix, there:
+--- 21961852
+>>21957953 (OP)
+Чтo ты тaм блять пишeшь дoлбoeб
+--- 21961860
+>>21957990
+>>21958370
+How do I learn crusive bros? My handwriting is awful
+--- 21961862
+>>21961859
+Nice handwriting but knock of the dramatics
+--- 21961934
+>>21958370
+>>21957990
+what if i dropped cursive on my own even though my school stressed cursive 
+am i dumb i just wanted to copy the cool writing in the printed books
+--- 21961941
+>>21961934
+oh man to add my teacher used to call my print handwriting artistic and even the principal of the school could only cite pragmatic reasons for me to drop print handwriting in favour of cursive so i have good writing speed just occurs to me either i went to a really dumb school or my inferior writing style mogged their cursive so hard they had nothing else to say
+--- 21961942
+>>21957996
+>krebs cycle chart
+What you studying, if I may ask?

lit/21957961.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,58 @@
+-----
+--- 21957961
+Give me the quick rundown on the Lestat novels by Anne Rice, /lit/. Classic vampire stories or trash? Who was the target audience back then? A cursory search makes it seem pozzed/gay, is this the case? I liked (parts of) Stoker's Dracula and thought Buffy/Angel was decent to good television.
+--- 21959497
+Bump for interest?
+--- 21959654
+She was jilling off to gay porn.
+--- 21959719
+>>21957961 (OP)
+I only read, I mean listened, to Interview with the Vampire. There's a lot of female thirst there but I found it fun regardless. I heard the other novels feel more like bad fanfiction and less like sequels though.
+--- 21959750
+>>21957961 (OP)
+>Classic vampire stories or trash
+Half and half, but it only gets worse the further you read. They get REALLY degenerate, the Mayfair books even more-so.
+--- 21959765
+>>21957961 (OP)
+Interview with the vampire is a classic, but they're also trash. Classic trash. Trash that stands the test of time. The later novels where they go to Atlantis and there's multi-generational incest witch families and genetic manipulation are insane in a genuinely entertaining way, but still very much trash. Look at the body of Anne Rice's work and you find someone who was probably the best and most popular writer of erotica of her day. Many of the tropes you see in fanfiction exist here in prototype. As for audience, early Vampire Chronicles novels had a kind of mass appeal but as they went on Rice's syncretic lore universe and fixation on bdsm and rape I think pushed away all but the most committed. These would be the (primarily women) readers who wanted something more substantial and with more literary pretension than a pulp bodice ripper a la harlequinn books, and who were wrapped up in the lore and universe the same way you see with that type of male reader who is obsessed with some middling fantasy series with a half dozen volumes you've never heard of before. 
+
+The first movie worth watching, early roles for a number of actors who would go on to better things (pitt, Banderas, Dunst) and great actors of the era doing some career best over acting (Cruise, Slater). 
+
+The second movie is awful but I think that has a lot to do with the material its adapting being so insane and the filmmakers not wanting to go for broke with the premise of a vampire awakening out of a century of torpor because he heard goth rock for the first time and deciding to become Peter Steele, along the way getting involved with ancient Mesopotamian gods or something. 
+
+Pop culture was absolutely trash in that period as well but there genuinely were some oddities and curiosities in the type of things that penetrated into mass market appeal. Perhaps its just looking back and that one day A24 movies or something will seem like relative isles of creativity and vitality when compared with the even more degenerated and idiotic art of tomorrow. 
+
+Trash. Classic trash. Made for horny midwestern christian women, somehow caught on with a mass audience. Good movie financed by legendary pedophile lich david geffen. Bad second movie with no tom Cruise but with legendary pedophilia victim Aaliyah. Worth reading for anthropological curiosity or for cheap thrills that come from mass market paperback intellectual/cultural pretension (see also Michael Crichton, John Grisham, Dennis Lehane, Dan Brown, etc.)
+--- 21959847
+>>21959765
+>fixation on bdsm and rape
+picking this up, thanks anon
+--- 21960218
+>>21957961 (OP)
+I loved the first 3 books, liked the 4th, dropped the whole series because I disliked the 5th so much.
+
+A general thing about Ann Rice's writing that is prominent and that I enjoy about it is that it's very sensual. As in pertaining to the senses. How everything feels from the luxurious silken clothes to the heavy velvet curtains, to the visceral ecstatic satisfaction of feeling the vampiric blood lust is all relished with detail.
+
+As for the particulars, interview with the vampire is beautiful in it's pervasive melancholy, tragic characters, and emotional complexity between the characters and their relationships with each other.
+It's a great book. Highly recommend.
+
+Then there is The Vampire Lastat. My favorite of the series. This is a exuberant tale about a fascinating and dramatic character who utterly demands attention both yours as a reader and the world within the story. It also expands the lore and fleshes out a few side characters. Though there are some major redcons that even the book acknowledges.
+
+Next up is Queen of the Damned. This book has a bit of a lack of focus but overall still very good. It is the most lore heavy, has almost too many characters that it gives detail backgrounds on, and even explains the origin of vampires. The stuff between Lastat and Akashia is interesting and I will leave out the details for you to read. It's a lot better than the movie, even if this one has some pacing issues and can be unfocused at times.
+
+The Body Thief is another Lastat focused book, this time it explores the Talimasca a lot more. Basically after all the nonsense of the previous books Lastat is basically a vampire god, but being the impulsive brat that I love him for, that isn't quite enough for him. So when a mysterious guy offers him to "temporary" swap bodies and feel what it's like to be mortal again he of course jumps at the opportunity despite literally everyone around him telling him it's a hyper stupid idea.
+Shenanigans ensue. 
+This book is a lot different from the others, being less of a gothic drama with horror elements and instead more of a mystery adventure type vibe, but if you accept it for what it is then it's a fun ride.
+
+Last of the books I read, and what made me basically quit the series
+Memnoch the Devil.
+Lastat meets the literal Christian devil and Ann basically goes off the deep end. Instead of it being a book about angsty vampires it's a very long drawn out ramble on Ann's thoughts on theocratic dogma, religion, and philosophy sandwiched between sex stuff that doesn't fit the tone of whats going on.
+I didn't mention it before but a pattern does emerge that the books after Queen of the Damned start having weird, and sometimes frankly gross sexual stuff. There were a few scenes in The body thief but in this book it really doesn't fit and feels deeply unnecessary.
+Anyway killed off characters in ways that were bullshit and unsatisfying. Broke Lastat. Redconed a lot of the lore, and worse of all, it was boring.
+--- 21961582
+Thanks for the detailed overviews, anons. Would you say the Buffy series' take on vampires was at least partly based on the Lestat books?
+>>21959654
+Was she, or is it just the lgb lobby 'claiming' a book series and seeing their own message in it? I'm genuinely asking because I don't know. Overt lgb stuff would make me not read it desu, but I am interested in its contribution to the vampire mythos in western literature.
+--- 21961681
+>>21959847
+If you just want to read a book series of vampires with lot of sex, just read Anita Blake.

lit/21958040.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,754 @@
+-----
+--- 21958040
+"...the star-unwinnowed fields" Edition
+
+Previous thread: >>21950333 →
+
+>Recommended reading charts (Look here before asking for vague recs)
+https://mega.nz/folder/kj5hWI6J#0cyw0-ZdvZKOJW3fPI6RfQ/folder/guIyhAzS
+
+>Archive
+https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search2&search_subject=sffg
+
+>Goodreads
+https://www.goodreads.com/group/show/1029811-sffg
+
+>Thread theme
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBizoJHE63M [Embed]
+
+>Thread poem
+"Surveyed from this my throne, as a central sun,
+the pageantries of worlds and cycles pass;
+forgotten splendors, dream by dream unfold
+like tapestry, and vanish; violet suns,
+or suns of changeful iridescence, bring
+their rays about me like the colored lights..."
+—from THE HASHISH-EATER, by CAS
+--- 21958073
+where is the new wandering inn chapter...
+he's taking too many damn breaks lately.
+--- 21958075
+books for this feel?
+--- 21958195
+Veins of Gold was one of the most emotional and inspirational chapters I read at the time but now that I'm older and more cynical I can't help but laugh that Rand's big revelation is literally "Live. Laugh. Love."
+
+But I still like it. Fuck you.
+--- 21958204
+I'm reading picrel. Twenty pages in, and so far, it's shit. Who cares about the jibber-jabber and haditch-patch or whatever. Also, cliche villains sitting around talking about their plans, come on, is this the best sci-fi can do? Although I already want to bone the MILF.
+--- 21958210
+>>21958204
+if you dont like it by 20 pages you're not going to like it.
+--- 21958215
+Post your Sandershelf
+--- 21958244
+>>21958040 (OP)
+Ohhhhhh myyyyyyyyyy.........
+--- 21958273
+>>21958244
+More like Kushiel's dank kušys.
+--- 21958383
+>>21958075
+Eragon
+--- 21958388
+>>21958383
+You telling me he got his elf waifu in the end?
+--- 21958405
+>>21958075
+>replace sun with dark evil foggy nights
+>replace smile with stone cold stare
+>replace woman with sex slave
+Kane
+--- 21958416
+>>21958075
+The Destroyer
+--- 21958424
+>>21958244
+--- 21958430
+>>21958388
+Never finished it but apparently she fucks off and Eragon is forever alone.
+--- 21958448
+>>21958430
+>denied elf waifu oneitis
+Off, grimdark even. 
+But according to wiki they just end it on ''wait and see'', so maybe there is hope.
+--- 21958460
+>>21958204
+>sci-fi
+Dune is space fantasy.
+--- 21958485
+>>21958460
+More like sci-fi is fantasy.
+--- 21958527
+250 or so pages into the way of kings and it's not bad, just wish the story would hurry the fuck up a bit
+--- 21958572
+>>21958075
+Pretty much any japanese work.
+--- 21958634
+>>21958040 (OP)
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6O1o3hGgtQ [Embed]
+Oh, /sffg/, it seems I might have to read PKD as I listen to synthwave. Oh my. Oh me!
+--- 21958635
+Are the R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms books good?
+--- 21958638
+>>21958204
+It is not action adventure, my guy. It is ecology and politics and building the fremen culture. 
+It is going to filter your ass real hard if you didn't already like the gom-jobbar.
+Ever sift sand through a screen? 
+If that line doesn't get you, then just put it down and go back to harry potter, please.
+--- 21958651
+>>21958635
+DnD shit all comes from other fantasy novels, so just read those.
+--- 21958707
+>>21958244
+A book about prostitutes with no sex scenes, incredible
+--- 21958714
+>>21958075
+The Faerie Queene
+--- 21958720
+>>21958651
+Still amazes me that CAS was overlooked.
+--- 21958728
+>>21958460
+All literature is fantasy.
+--- 21958773
+>>21958707
+What, really? I actually have one of those books but never read it.
+--- 21958791
+>>21958773
+I sped-read it looking for something to jerk off to and there was NOTHING
+
+Despite not being sexy at all the book was still creepy and gross
+--- 21958803
+>>21958791
+>still creepy and gross
+how so
+--- 21958821
+>>21958405
+That sounds amazing. Just asking to make sure: you mean the Kane series by Karl Edward Wagner, right?
+--- 21958828
+>>21958075
+belgariad desu (except Ce'nedra is a petite elf waifu and doesn't have huge boobs)
+--- 21958830
+>>21958821
+No, he means Caine.
+--- 21958833
+>dark
+>monolithic
+>esoteric
+>ethereal
+>instilling a sense of mild dread
+
+Any books with this feel?
+--- 21958837
+>>21958791
+> I sped-read it looking for something to jerk off to and there was NOTHING
+clearly you missed all the BDSM sex scenes.
+--- 21958843
+>>21958833
+The Book of the New Sun and The Book of the Short Sun
+--- 21958847
+>>21958833
+House on the Borderland
+At the Mountains of Madness
+Magus
+Book of the New Sun
+God's Demon
+--- 21958854
+>>21958843
+He needs Long Sun before Short Sun or it doesn't make any fucking sense.
+--- 21958858
+>>21958040 (OP)
+Do you guys read on your phone? I just started reading Red Rising and it’s absolutely amazing so far but I can’t imagine reading the whole thing on a screen. I always want to get a physical copy but that defeats the purpose of why I want to read on a phone in the first place (save money and space). How do you do it?
+--- 21958863
+>>21958854
+That’s true. I didn’t list it because Long Sun doesn’t really fit what he described.
+--- 21958864
+>>21958635
+Yes. Salvatore is obviously no genius writer but he is something of a master of pulp. Especially after reading other dnd novels (dark sun, dragonlance) I've really become quite enamored and impressed with how rock solid Salvatore's pacing and action is. His books really are nonstop entertainment. And his characters might be simple but they're not the empty, forgettable simple of that other trash, they're the emblematic, archetypical kind of simple like a great Saturday morning cartoon, like Batman TAS or Gargoyles.
+--- 21958865
+>>21958858
+I used an app called moon reader but you should just get a kindle to be honest.
+--- 21958867
+>>21958865
+I like moon reader a lot. The paid version was a good investment.
+--- 21958868
+>>21958863
+Urth fits his description best to be honest and he still needs New Sun before it.
+--- 21958879
+>>21958803
+It's a book about training children to be sex slaves to cater to every "kink" the elite might have.
+--- 21958897
+>>21958864
+This is probably the best way I've ever heard anyone describe exactly why I love RA Salvatore. Thanks anon.
+--- 21958904
+>>21958864
+How is he "not a genius writer" then?
+--- 21958931
+>>21958858
+Very rarely. When I'm in a bus station sometimes. But then I tend to browse 4chan, and if I read then it's usually some pdfs. 
+>>21958879
+wtf
+--- 21958951
+>>21958868
+I consider Urth to be part of BotNS
+--- 21958958
+>>21958215
+Can you imagine actually owning and displaying this slop? And it's all paperback too. I feel ill
+--- 21958992
+>>21958858
+just get an e-reader dumbass
+--- 21959045
+>>21958073
+>where is the new wandering inn chapter...
+>he's taking too many damn breaks lately.
+Pirateaba took a break because he's writing Gravesong 2. Sucks a bit, as it's going to be published on Yonder, but as long as the semi-edited drafted gets published for patrons again, I don't mind.
+--- 21959066
+>>21958635
+>Are the R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms books good?
+No. Absolutely no. Reading the Drizzt series had given me mental damage that I feel to this very day. Unironically, my serious rating scale has the Drizzt Trillogy at its very bottom, a monument to human folly and mockery of the true craft of writing. Salvatore is a hack and should have never been allowed to write. By the Gods, just look at his post-comment at the end of the first book, he speaks about being 'surprised' that in a story you can't just have someone run at a knight with a knife and simply have the character take damage, but actualy see the character dying if the knife hits the throat. Like, this fucking autist was so D&D-brained he was surprised by the rules of reality itself.
+--- 21959067
+To the two anons who recommended I read Lyonesse by Jack Vance: thank you, it was wonderful and not at all what I expected going in. I'm going to be reading more Vance now.
+--- 21959078
+>>21958904
+His prose is clunky
+--- 21959084
+>>21958992
+any good ones? does /lit/ have a tier list for these? i tend to read on my phone or my pc and i used to read on my old surface tablet, but that was heavy as fuck.
+preferrably something waterproof because i also like to read in the tub
+--- 21959092
+>>21959067
+Check out The Dragon Masters, that's my favorite Vance but I haven't read Lyonesse yet
+--- 21959131
+>>21959084
+I love my kobo libra and the newer ones are waterproof. If you want a kindle or something then idk but kill yourself
+--- 21959142
+>>21959084
+I use a Kindle Paperwhite. I use it strictly for books and I have never turned the wifi on.
+--- 21959160
+I am going in blind. He has been memed so hard that I am finally falling for it and taking the plunge. I am autistic and only read hardcovers so I am getting these three right now and will either think it is the greatest thing ever or burn them when done.
+--- 21959202
+>>21958210
+Shit I wondered about that 
+>>21958460
+Wait, so is it sci-fi or not 
+>>21958638
+My friend swears by it but he also dislikes Shakespeare so I don’t know how this is going to go, but Harry Potter, KEK, I’d rather put myself through reading Proust than that
+--- 21959232
+>>21958635
+R. A. Salvatore is one of the most braindead writers of prose ever to live. It is fully possible that the stories he tells may be good; I cannot tell for certain because his writing style is so monumentally stupid and infantile you actually lose I.Q. points by reading it, absolutely agonizing to get through. He makes Ernest Hemingway look loquacious by comparison, you'll get a more intellectually stimulating experience by reading See Spot Run.
+--- 21959274
+>>21958833
+night land
+--- 21959282
+>>21959067
+god bless
+--- 21959355
+>>21959084
+do it NOW, easily one of the best purchases you can make.
+and you can't really make a bad choice with current e-readers, it's not like computer parts or phones.
+
+look up comparison videos on youtube if you care about the software menus, features, etc.
+--- 21959431
+>>21959131
+>>21959142
+>>21959355
+leaning towards a kobo libre 2, but in the back of my mind i'm thinking that i could just as well buy a budget tablet instead. dunno if it's worth the price desu..
+--- 21959476
+>>21959431
+the difference is the fact that a tablet's just another screen blaring at your eyes while the e-ink technology is pretty much like looking at paper. idk how this kobo libre thing works but i need a night light to be able to read my kindle, it's much more gentle on the eyes.
+you're going to be saving thousands through piracy and it's going to be with you for years so no point in getting hung up on price
+--- 21959524
+>>21959431
+it's worth it.
+there's no going back to reading on lcd screens after you try e-ink.
+
+dittoing the above anon.
+piracy and they last forever. I'm using a 9 year old paperwhite 2 and the battery has lost a tiny amount of max charge, if any, despite sitting for literal years on my shelf in an uncharged/dead state collecting dust. e-readers are fucking tanks.
+if you're extremely strapped for cash you can drop the waterproof requirement and get a used paperwhite 2 or 3 off ebay or something for very cheap
+--- 21959555
+>>21959431
+Don't buy a kindle, their devices are good but the software is terrible, kobo runs android so you can use whatever reader you want and there is a ton of customisation options and features.
+I have a paperwhite 3, I had it jailbroken and it is still garbage, kindle jb are basically simple apps that run on top of native os, they tend to run out of memory and crash constantly, also you cannot really change any system settings for example changing and adjusting touchcreen area to do different things. Kobos which run on android are simply a better choice given that they use same eink screen technology.
+--- 21959556
+>>21959524
+>>21959476
+but how much difference does the e-ink make when reading during the night with only the backlight? wouldn't it be pretty much the same? of course it being lighter and bigger is appealing, but still. 
+also they look kinda laggy. all these things kept me from getting one so far.
+--- 21959567
+>been reading the witcher
+>interesting chapter about snow white
+>cursed princess who ran away from mother and socially retarded wizard
+>princess grows up and chases the wizard to kill him in revenge
+>geralt kills her and her squad before they can butcher the town to get to the wizard
+>silly dramatic ending with the town banishing him before even letting him explain
+
+>remember netflix made a witcher series
+>read about the snow white episode
+>they changed the story to the wizard now being evil and chasing the princess because men bad
+ah, now i recognize california again
+--- 21959573
+>>21959556
+Eink screen are not transparent and they are not backlit, there are tiny leds at the bottom and the top of the screen which then illuminate the top layer/coating on the eink screen. The difference is huge compared to an lcd, it is more or less the same when you illuminate and actual paper with light except you can easily adjust how much light you want it, the color tempereture etc.
+--- 21959575
+>>21959160
+Let us know how it goes, anon. You’ve a brave heart.
+--- 21959581
+>>21959567
+I watched two episodes and dropped it instantly after the second one, the hacks butchered the story into a meaningless slaughter with next to no subtlety or nuance. How can someone fuck word by word source material this badly?
+--- 21959584
+>>21959556
+NO
+
+e-readers/e-ink is lightless technology, unlike lcd screens where the backlight is an inherent part of the screen/image display.
+the "light" you see advertised on e-readers is a separate F R O N T light that sits atop the screen itself and shines across the screen, it's not a BACKlight that is inherent to the workings of the display.
+this is *why* e-ink is better, because it's not backlit image display.
+
+this frontlight is akin to taking the lamp above your head/shoulder, shrinking it down, and sticking on the inside bezel of your device, which of course you just turn off when you're reading in sunlight.
+
+I beg you bro please do not get a tablet
+--- 21959596
+>>21959556
+>laggy
+nigga it's a book
+--- 21959605
+>>21959567
+This is why I never bothered with the show, as I knew it would be tainted. The book on the other hand is quirky and fun with its odd inversions of fairytales. Don’t bother with the main series though. The story works best in the last wish and sword of destiny because it’s still about Geralt hunting monsters. The main series is almost like a completely different book series.
+--- 21959611
+>>21959581
+>How can someone fuck word by word source material this badly?
+By intentionally altering it in order to spite the fans (and apparently actors).
+--- 21959623
+if the characters in the book don't have sex then i'm not reading it
+--- 21959685
+>>21959355
+How much should I pay for a used e-reader, a paperwhite for example? Can you directly download books from libgen or other sites on it?
+--- 21959695
+This is really fucking good.
+--- 21959714
+>>21959581
+I think I watched 20 mins of first ep, I think Gerald was in some town or village and already the plot was about some roastie and some wizard(?) I didn't pay too much attention to it but from the beginning it was about some woman and geralt simping, I dropped it then and there.
+--- 21959716
+>>21959555
+I've used a regular Paperwhite for several years, probably since the middle of last decade, and I've never had any issues with random crashing. How about you don't buy jailbroken shit and do it yourself if it's that big of an issue? Just don't turn wifi on and use the e-reader as a (wait for it) e-reader.
+--- 21959725
+Guys, a long time ago I read almost all of the Isaac Asimov's Galactic Empire cycle, but lost interest around Foundation and Earth. Are the rest any good?
+--- 21959731
+>>21959716
+I meant that the jb apps crash regularly, the kindle software runs fine however it is extremely limited, the number one thing I hate about kindle and pw3 is that tapping the left side of screen will go page back, in other words If I am holding the kindle with left hand hand then I cannot turn the page forward.
+--- 21959734
+>>21959584
+>>21959596
+>>21959573
+huh, the more you know. 
+i didn't think it would be that different. guess i'll give it a shot
+--- 21959745
+>>21959084
+I'm a huge fan of the new paperwhites, the screen yellowing slider is fantastic for late night reading and side loading with Calibre is braindead easy
+--- 21959752
+>>21959725
+None of the ones after the original trilogy are any good, they were a cash grab.
+--- 21959763
+/SFFG/ Recommendations:
+
+Read Reverend Insanity, Lord of The Mysteries, Neuromancer, Hyperion, The Prince of Nothing
+
+Also read The Wandering Inn, Between Two Fires, Mother of Learning, Cradle, I Shall Seal the Heavens, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Poppy War.
+--- 21959803
+>>21959605
+>>21959567
+Just read Elric instead
+--- 21959890
+>a time traveller did it
+>a shapeshifter did it
+
+Way to make the entire series up until now meaningless, Wolfe.
+--- 21959895
+>>21959695
+jewish literature
+--- 21959899
+>>21959895
+explain
+--- 21959902
+>>21959899
+guy gavriel gay is literally a jew
+--- 21959909
+Opinions on The Barrow by Smylie? Is it YA crap?
+--- 21959920
+>>21959902
+Damn, with a name like that I imagine an Angloid demigod.
+--- 21959930
+>>21959902
+lol what a complete fucking moron, he's a Christian Anglo-Canadian who writes explicitly Christian literature, you gonna call J.R.R. Tolkien a Hindu next? or are you one of those brainrotted larpagan atheists who screeches "magic jew desert god sky daddy" at everything to do with Christianity
+--- 21959941
+>>21959930
+He's literally Jewish. Look it up. Or just look at his face.
+--- 21959956
+>>21959067
+Based Vance enjoyer.
+https://youtube.com/watch?v=oiOt6eW0pZI [Embed]
+--- 21959969
+>>21959941
+It's KAY not KATZ you brainrotted troon
+--- 21959974
+>>21959930
+where do you think christianity came from
+--- 21959995
+>>21959974
+from the Turks
+--- 21960001
+>>21959067
+Try his books on Tschai - fell in love with them as a kid. The first book has this meh sub plot on the flower of Cath, but the storybuilding of the old Chasch civilizations and all the other races in the later books is something I have just rarely come across. Revisit them every few years.
+--- 21960033
+>>21959685
+>should
+depends on the model age. I remember seeing paperwhite 2 and 3 for like $30 on ebay US.
+honestly I would save up and just buy new, it will last you forever anyway
+
+>Can you directly download books from libgen or other sites on it?
+not that I know of
+you're going to have to plug it into your pc and drag n' drop or use calibre
+
+if you jailbreak it and install KOReader, then you can send stuff from calibre to the kindle over wifi, but again, from your pc
+
+>>21959731
+just curious, what apps were you using and how long ago? KOReader used to crash occasionally (memory related like you said) on my paperwhite 2 but a koreader update last year solved it.
+--- 21960051
+>>21960001
+Jack Vance
+
+Top 3rd
+The Last Castle
+Emphyrio
+Trullion
+Cadwall Chronicles
+The Cugel Saga
+Ports of Call/Lurulu
+
+Middle 3rd
+The Faceless Man trilogy
+Rhialto
+The Dying Earth
+Planet of Adventure
+Big Planet
+
+Bottom 3rd
+All Magnus Ridolph stories
+The Grey Man
+The Demon Princes
+Lyonesse
+
+Everything else I either haven't read or don't remember
+--- 21960056
+>>21958215
+I can't wait to go to Mormon heaven and read new Sanderkino for all eternity
+--- 21960068
+Can anyone recommend some mystical sci-fi or fantasy?
+--- 21960073
+>>21960068
+I don't know what you mean by mystical. Radix maybe.
+--- 21960082
+>>21959930
+>>21959969
+https://www.timesofisrael.com/out-of-this-world/
+>Your novel “The Lions of Al-Rassan” is a fantastical rendering of the conflicts between Christians, Muslims, and Jews in medieval Spain. 
+>Did your own Jewish identity influence your depiction of the Kindath, i.e., Jewish characters in the book?
+
+>"Yes, of course it did." -Guy Gavriel Kay
+--- 21960110
+>>21960033
+>$30 on ebay US.
+>honestly I would save up and just buy new, it will last you forever anyway
+Buying a new kindle is really a waste of money, 30$ for a second hand pw2 or 3 sounds about right, my pw3 is in excelent condition, almost like new and I got it almost at lauch, unlike phones owned by smelly 'jeets, ereader owners tend to somwhat look after them.
+
+>just curious, what apps were you using and how long ago? KOReader used to crash occasionally (memory related like you said) on my paperwhite 2 but a koreader update last year solved it.
+I have koreader, to be fair I have not updated it in long time, that might be the reason for crashes, another issue is that its unable to open large files, I have a rather large ~12mb mobi/epub book, no images, just text and it won't open in koreader
+--- 21960120
+>>21960073
+>I don't know what you mean by mystical.
+I'm not so sure either, to be honest. I guess another word would be "magical." The only real comparison I can think of would be something like Alan Moore's Promethea.
+--- 21960137
+>>21960120
+I just thought of some other comparisons, like A Time of Changes and Downward To Earth by Robert Silverberg, or Lavondyss by Robert Holdstock.
+--- 21960161
+>>21959734
+Check out the Boox line of ereaders also, I like them better than kindle because you don't have to mess with the calibre program you just drag and drop the file into the reader.
+--- 21960179
+>>21960120
+>>21960137
+Try reading The Hill of Dreams by Arthur Machen.
+--- 21960232
+>>21959909
+judging by that cover yes
+--- 21960302
+>>21959763
+MORNING MORNING MORNING!!!!!
+--- 21960306
+>>21958707
+>>21958773
+>>21958803
+>>21958837
+>reads a book about BDSM
+>finds every scene with a whip creepy and gross and not sexual
+
+Hmmmmmmmm
+--- 21960307
+>>21960302
+Good marning sar!
+--- 21960314
+>>21960306
+Well, some whips and BDSM is not creepy.
+--- 21960407
+>>21959895
+So what did you think of the book when you read it?
+--- 21960428
+>>21959895
+How do you feel about this?
+> The Silmarillion is a collection of myths and stories in varying styles by the English writer J. R. R. Tolkien. It was edited and published posthumously by his son Christopher Tolkien in 1977, assisted by the fantasy author Guy Gavriel Kay.
+--- 21960462
+Why do fantasy authors love to to include cuck shit?
+--- 21960477
+>>21960462
+Because it makes the romance even better.
+--- 21960480
+>>21960407
+my guess is an endless repeating litany of "jew jew jew kike cuck jew holohoax jew jew jew goyslop jew jew"
+--- 21960496
+>>21959763
+Just dropped reverend insanity. Wasted almost a fucking week reading that trash to chapter 1200.
+
+Very few good moments in my opinion. It went to shit after like chapter 600 or something, after he turned into a zombie. The traslation changed and was even worse and the prose that was already shit also turned much worse. Maybe it was related, because you can see the author stopped trying after Fang Yuan turned into a zombie. Always telling, never showing, terrible perspective changes, omniscient narrator always fucking with you because you don't know if it's the character thinking or not, etc. Very very very amateurish, like 12 yr old writing fanfic shit.
+
+After chapter 500 or something was also when Fang Yuan stopped with the poems and the sparse introspection. The good moments were always when he justified his unreleting chasing of immortality, and the fucked up shit like the girl and the bear and the eating monkey brains thing. That was cool. After chapter 500 he's just a psychopath, and that's fucking boring. Psychopath mcs are terrible because they're basically retards without a huge part of what makes someone interesting or even human. It only worked for some time because of that introspection and the goal, without that it's literally just someone with 1/3 of a nonfunctioning brain.
+
+2/10
+--- 21960501
+>>21960496
+>Read 100+ chapters before you drop it
+The author already won
+--- 21960529
+What proportion of fantasy to sci fi do you anons read? I read nothing but fantasy, myself. I have never really been able to get into sci fi. Perhaps that is due to my complete disinterest in real science.
+--- 21960532
+>>21958075
+Pic related, it's a 6 books series but the two omnibuses are easier to find (and pirate)
+Riftwar
+--- 21960561
+>>21959084
+Kobo aura one
+--- 21960572
+>>21960529
+probably a ratio of 10 fantasy books for every scifi, roughly
+it's honestly kinda hard to find good scifi out there, because the overwhelming majority of published SF tends to fall into 3 categories:
+>Asimov-era philosophical/conceptual hard SF that typically only appeals to turbo-geeks and literal autists with its glut of unnecessary technical jargon
+>gungho braindead military fiction often written by army brats about killings bugs or he-men or something with even more unnecessary technical jargon (but about tactical stuff)
+>cyberpunk dystopias about gay black transsexual atheist muslim communists and their inexplicable elf, goblin, orc and minotaur sex partners fighting da corporations and then dying from cyber-AIDS
+trying to get something as compelling and creative as Dune or Jurassic Park is a tremendous crapshoot - they are the exception, not the rule
+--- 21960579
+I haven't made one of these in awhile, so here's a book I like, but don't adore.
+--- 21960587
+>>21960462
+I certainly don’t, but not all of us can be as unhinged as Richard Bakker.
+--- 21960594
+>>21960587
+Bakker? I hardly knew er!
+--- 21960605
+>>21958075
+Tarnsman of Gor
+>>21959890
+that's only the first part of the series
+--- 21960623
+>>21958858
+I think less of any person who actually thinks the first red rising is amazing
+The whole series was no great, people said it got better and it very mildly got better but it stays YA rubbish
+
+The first book is the worse
+I suggest going for a CT scan you may have a growth
+--- 21960656
+I finally have a prologue I'm happy with, only 50+ more chapters to write.
+--- 21960658
+I finished between two fires. I m disappointed that Thomas is now a bugger priest. I loved the epilogue though, a bit sad but the execution was fantastic.
+--- 21960680
+>>21960496
+it literally get better again
+--- 21960684
+>>21960656
+Nice work, anon! Too bad I'll skip it lol
+--- 21960698
+>>21960656
+cute
+>>21960658
+wtf? dropped
+--- 21960702
+>>21960684
+Do people really do that?
+--- 21960735
+>>21958958
+You sound jealous anon
+--- 21960772
+Do you guys want to read my royal road fantasy novel?
+--- 21960785
+>>21960772
+Does it have incest?
+--- 21960791
+>>21960680
+when and why?
+--- 21960796
+>bad half-orc commit crimes against humanity
+>crimes include necromancy, forcing his brother into killing a bunch of kids, mass murder, turning people insane including his brother's daughter
+>due his daughter being insane, she end up killing herself
+>when confronted by the good guys he dares to play the "treason" and "REEE IF YOU KILL ME YOU'RE A KILLER" card
+>his dumb brother still fall for it
+You can't make this shit up
+Also, bad half-orc motivation is looking to stop insanity to he can stop putting his dick in crazy
+--- 21960798
+>>21960785
+It actually does.
+--- 21960800
+>>21960785
+FUCK
+Why do i want a thick white girl for purposes of procreation right now?
+--- 21960808
+>>21960798
+sorry anon, but I'm kind of a christian and the most I tolerate is cousinxcousin
+--- 21960830
+Reminder to the Mysteries 2 bros to vote for the novel on webnovel. 
+>tfw only found out about the author asking for it through pirate sites
+--- 21960843
+When is the E William Brown fagget going to release an audiobook for this Daniel Black System Apocalypse ?
+--- 21960844
+>>21960772
+whats it about
+--- 21960845
+>>21960843
+WONG'd
+--- 21960852
+>>21960845
+He smartly didn't have system or apocalypse anywhere close to the title or series name.
+--- 21960863
+>>21960844
+Adah Phenric took a vow to protect the world from any threats when she took an oath as a Knight of Valora. All was well until she and her team were sent on a routine mission to hunt a monster, but things go awry and Adah finds herself to be the sole survivor. Unconvinced her comrades are dead, she ventures out into the world to uncover the reasons for their disappearance. Coming in contact with a mysterious merchant, her investigation leads her to uncover a plot that threatens the world and discover the nature of the Goddess herself. Armed with nothing but her wits, friends, and a bit of magic, Adah commits to bringing the culprits to justice. For duty binds all. 
+
+https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/67568/a-knight-of-valora-serenity
+--- 21960898
+>>21960863
+>she 
+stopped reading right there
+--- 21960921
+>>21959890
+I finished it a year ago and I still don't know how I feel about it, I don't know if I ever will. Basically the Twin Peaks season 3 of literature
+--- 21960926
+Any of you read this yet?
+--- 21960942
+>>21960808
+What about Lot's Daughters?
+--- 21960945
+>>21960926
+I thought about reading it months ago since I could get in advance for free but decided against it.
+--- 21960954
+>>21960942
+that whole passage was just to shit on the moabites, it's not supposed to be a positive thing to imply they were born of drunken father-daughter incest
+--- 21960956
+Anything good in the current Audible 2 for 1 sale?
+--- 21960971
+>>21960942
+There was an AFK botter I'd always see in Fort Aspenwood (Guild Wars 1 pvp map) named Remember Lot's Wife, who, in addition to simply standing there to soak up passive victories, was also always looking backwards. I think of that guy when I think of biblical stuff.
+--- 21961123
+how is she so based?
+--- 21961126
+>>21960971
+Good taste in vidya.
+21961123
+Shit thread bump.
+--- 21961235
+>>21960956
+No
+--- 21961292
+>>21960791
+Within 30 chapters Fang Yuan will go to Southern Border, from there on things will pick up again
+--- 21961317
+>>21961123
+she intentionally stuck it to white people by making the main character brown and the barbarian savages on the periphery white
+extremely powerful
+--- 21961321
+I'd rather take a bullet than be forced to read a Pierce Brown novel
+--- 21961371
+>>21961321
+I read this as Pierce Brosnan
+--- 21961388
+>>21959695
+Until you actual learn about the cultural and political dynamics of the Iberian Peninsula and realize how much GK whitewashes his "tolerant" muslims and mischaracterizes the not-christians, and that without even going into how utterly irrelevant the medic main character is in the entire plot, her relevance reduced to being the bed-warmer for the movers and shakers of the story.
+If I didn't knew better I would even assume it was writen by a middle-aged wine aunt and not a grown ass man.
+--- 21961444
+>>21961388
+>until you actually learn
+I played the El Cid Age of Empires II: The Conquerors campaign as a kid so I'm already pretty well versed.
+--- 21961506
+Just finished picrel.
+How are non-human characters better written than humans?
+--- 21961623
+>>21960572
+>>21960529
+Read early John Crowley
+--- 21961639
+>>21960796
+That's stupid.
+>>21961317
+Not reading her books then.
+>>21961371
+The Prince of Architecture, by Pierce Brosnan.
+--- 21961647
+>>21960579
+If you encounter a book with "SF Masterwork" on it, 60/40 the book is retarded.
+--- 21961668
+>>21961647
+Roadside Picnic and the Stars My Destination, I am Legend, and Flowers for Algernon were SF Masterworks and I enjoyed them.
+Their choices for book covers are questionable. Here we have a token female lead whose only purpose is to climb the World Trade Center and look pretty.
+--- 21961808
+>>21958830
+>>21958405
+>>21958821
+I own all of the physical Karl Edward Wagner Novels in Edmonton, Alberta. I'm looking for others constantly. Mirin?
+--- 21961816
+>>21961668
+>Their choices for book covers are questionable.
+The weird thing is that a lot of the Fantasy Masterworks have great covers.
+--- 21961817
+>>21961816
+Case in point.
+--- 21961834
+any fantasy about hunting down powerful unhinged psycho witches with bros devil may cry style?
+--- 21961837
+>>21961834
+I wish there was more of this in Lord of the Mysteries
+--- 21961847
+>>21961834
+There are Devil May Cry light novels that have been officially translated and published
+--- 21961920
+books with twink protagonist?
+--- 21961925
+>>21958075
+A Princess of Mars (Burroughs)
+--- 21961933
+>>21961925
+does he fuck the princess?
+i aint reading more fantasy novels until i get sex scenes or slavery
+--- 21961938
+Are there any medical fantasy books, like about being a physician in a fantasy world?
+--- 21961939
+>>21961668
+Well, you found the /40 part!
+--- 21961950
+>>21961938
+Don't know of any that specifically focus on that. Protagonist of the Black Company books is doctor/surgeon, but it doesn't go into the depth of medicine, which I assume you is what you want.
+--- 21961956
+>>21960314
+You cannot read Kushiels Dart and think there is no sex in there
+--- 21961958
+>>21958040 (OP)
+FUCK he is good.
+--- 21961959
+>>21961938
+There are light novels, manga, and anime about that. Certainly there must also be webnovels and self-published works.
+--- 21961963
+>>21961956
+This is the author. Well, when she was younger.
+She's probably into kinky sex.

lit/21958041.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,59 @@
+-----
+--- 21958041
+i need more schizo kino like this
+--- 21958045
+>>21958041 (OP)
+Ra Material
+--- 21958050
+>>21958041 (OP)
+and like this
+--- 21958058
+>>21958050
+also this
+--- 21958069
+astroturfed cult for retards
+--- 21958070
+>>21958058
+and a little of this
+>>21958045
+what is that? a title?
+--- 21958072
+>>21958069
+>astroturfed cult for retards
+--- 21958597
+Here you go buddy:
+-The Matrix series by Val Valarian (the first 5 books are available online, there is a 6th one but I couldn't find it)
+-Ufology books by Wendelle C. Stevens. They're all amazing and important. He is one of the most important researcher to have lived.
+-The Law of One by Ra AKA The Ra Material (perhaps the most important channeled book ever written)
+-The Communion Trilogy by Whitely Streiber.
+-
+--- 21958814
+>>21958045
+isnt this shit written by a negro suggesting that blacks are the superior race or something? kek
+--- 21958823
+>>21958814
+nvm i mistook it for something else
+there was some kind of hip hop artist or jazz musician or something who wrote a book, naming it something with Ra in the title
+--- 21958953
+>>21958041 (OP)
+Have you listened to Stockhausen’s opera cycle based on this book?
+--- 21958965
+>>21958041 (OP)
+>>21958946 →
+--- 21959996
+>>21958823
+Sun Ra was a free jazz musician, possibly the most schizo of genres, and he apparently wrote a huge amount of stuff
+--- 21960371
+>jew cults
+--- 21960376
+>>21959996
+are you brazilian?
+--- 21960990
+bump
+--- 21961918
+>>21958041 (OP)
+The Urantia Book is incredibly deep for those with the courage to believe
+https://youtu.be/KzA6ua37ILk [Embed]
+--- 21961948
+>>21958041 (OP)
+Nice cover

lit/21958086.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,143 @@
+-----
+--- 21958086
+This book is full of wisdom and beauty
+--- 21958113
+It's also gay
+--- 21958261
+>>21958086 (OP)
+>tfw no Antinous bf
+Give me ONE fucking reason not to kms RIGHT FUCKING NOW.
+--- 21958286
+>>21958261
+Because there are cute boys irl anon :)
+--- 21958537
+>>21958286
+How do I get one to kill me?
+--- 21958540
+>>21958537
+Stage a coup to restore the emperor
+--- 21958541
+>>21958540
+Good to see you again. 
+I still want to die
+and have a qt twink bf
+
+Why must my suffering have no end? ;_;
+--- 21958545
+>>21958541
+When did we speak before anon? I have a vague memory, but I cannot remember the context
+How old are you, where do you live
+Have you ever had crush on boy,..
+--- 21958557
+>>21958545
+You posted the exact pic that you (perhaps not you?) posted in a gay Mishima thread. Can't remember the context.
+
+Early 20s, England
+No ;_;
+--- 21958579
+>>21958557
+It was probably me I think I'm the only anon who has posted that pic before
+Cute... when are you coming to Australia
+--- 21958591
+>>21958579
+That could actually happen; my father's an Aussie and wants me to come live with himkinda
+City? BF status? Top/bottom?
+--- 21958604
+>>21958591
+PerthI have a bf so now I feel bad about leading you on, but it would be nice to have lit friends and we are not disinterested in fooling around with cute bois..Top, also I like more exotic pleasures.. bondage..
+--- 21958606
+Apparently love can bloom in the most unexpected threads.
+--- 21958617
+>>21958604
+Nice. 
+Were you the one who was smaller and yet fucked his bf? 
+
+Hope you guys are happy together :) <3
+--- 21958623
+>>21958617
+do you mean smaller in terms of cock size or something? we're teh same height
+thank you very much anon, although it has been a bit rocky lately
+--- 21958660
+>>21958623
+Being together is usually better than being alone! Don't lock yourself into an unhappy situation, but remember it isn't necessarily better outside of it!
+
+It wasn't you but some anon on /k/. He was smaller and more psychologically submissive but still fucked his kinky bigger bf who loved to be tied up.
+
+Favourite book? Gay book?
+--- 21958694
+>>21958660
+Favourite book? That's a tricky question anon. My favourite book with homoerotic themes is probably The Confusions of Young Törless, although that is not the primary reason why that book is so special to me, and it would be crass to call it a gay book. I do like Mishima a lot too.
+
+How about you?
+--- 21958722
+>>21958694
+I like Demons. It's even (imo; though don't tell any Russnats) kinda homoerotic, if in more of a 'young man in awe of an older politically idealistic one' way. 
+
+I just recently read The Confusions. I thought it was neat, and the setting was really cute, though I felt it have the author grandstanding too much with his philosophical background and not enough explicit naughty stuff, though considering the wiggle room stuff like Death In Venice got I suppose it would've been censored. I think my favourite 'gay' (more paederastic, really) one is Sandel, an adorable story about a 19 year old falling in love with a boy.
+--- 21958790
+Least homosexual /lit/ thread
+--- 21959072
+>>21958086 (OP)
+I adore this book. It's one of my absolute favourites. I rarely have physical emotional reactions to literature, but Antinous' funeral elicited one.
+
+>But I hesitated still about where to place the tomb. I recalled that in ordering rites of apotheosis everywhere, with funeral games, issues of coins, and statues in the public squares, I had made an exception for Rome, fearing to augment that animosity which more or less surrounds any foreign favorite. I told myself that I should not always be there to protect that sepulchre. The monument envisaged at the gates of Antinoopolis seemed too public also, and far from safe. I followed the priests' advice. On a mountainside in the Arabic range, some three leagues from the new city, they indicated to me one of those caverns formerly intended by Egypt's kings to serve as their funeral vaults. A team of oxen drew the sarcophagus up that grade; it was lowered with ropes to those subterranean corridors, and was then slid into position to lean against a wall of rock. The youth from Claudiopolis was descending into the tomb like a Pharaoh, or a Ptolemy. There we left him, alone. He was entering upon that endless tenure, without air, without light, without change of season, compared with which every life seems short; such was the stability to which he had attained, such perhaps was the peace. Centuries as yet unborn within the dark womb of time would pass by thousands over that tomb without restoring life to him, but likewise without adding to his death, and without changing the fact that he had been.
+--- 21959132
+>all of his three novels are out of print in my language, but somehow managed to find Stoner and loved it
+inb4 "hurr durr read them in English"
+No.
+--- 21959194
+I am certain you cannot get tradpublished for historical unless you sign on to promote the farce that our western progenitors were ass pounding fruity little faggots. The hero of the jews, David, was a bisexual promiscuous fagwad who took it up the ass and stirred his rod in shitholes. And we all know that, HELLO, WHO DO YOU THINK OWNS THE PUBLISHING INDUSTRY?
+
+I'm with the muslims on faggotry. All faggots should be defenestrated. Everyone promoting faggotry should be shot in the head and removed from this world. Committing faggotry destroys a man inside and out and permanently severs his connection to God. That's why hedonistic satan worshipping kikes love to push this myth of Hellenic/Roman faggotry so much.
+--- 21959557
+>>21959194
+>The word 'homosexual' is nowhere to be found in ancient writings
+Sure. The relevant words are 'pederasty' (boy love), 'erastes' (lover), 'eromenos' (beloved), etc. Erastes is used for heterosexual lovers too.
+>The ancient word the Greeks used for homosexuals is 'kinaidos'
+Only passive homosexuals. In the entire Aristophanic corpus, no one is ever mocked for being attracted to males or fucking them, only for being fucked. Aristophanes himself defends pederasty in Plato's Symposium.
+>Kata Timarchou
+Aeschines is talking about men who prostitute themselves, not male love in general. He makes this clear:
+>According to my definition, desire for those who are noble and decent is characteristic of the generous and discerning spirit, but debauchery based on hiring someone for money I consider characteristic of a wanton and uncultivated man. And to be loved without corruption I count as noble, to have been induced by money to prostitute oneself is shameful. (Against Timarchos 137)
+Aeschines also says that he himself has had homosexual love affairs, says that Solon the lawgiver gave pederasty special status by permitting it to the free alone, and alleges that Homer intended Achilles and Patroclus to be read as erotic lovers.
+>Plato's Laws
+These aren't actual Greek laws. They are Plato's suggestions. Plato himself says in this text that outlawing homosexuality in the Greek peninsula will be quite a difficult endeavor, given its popularity. Plato also wanted to ban Homer, have children raised communally without knowing their father's identity, advocated equality of the sexes, etc. Not a Greek traditionalist.
+--- 21959562
+>>21959194
+>>21959557
+
+
+The Sparta thing is true, although it ignores the fact that pederasty still existed (Plutarch, Cicero, Xenophon) just without anal copulation. Cicero says they "permit everything except the filthy act itself". Plutarch says it is shameful for a Spartan youth "to be without lovers". Xenophon says the laws in Sparta are unusual, and that "most of the cities do not censure men's desire for boys"
+
+Regarding Alexander the Great, these are selective quotations
+>King Alexander, too, was quite excessively keen on boys: according to Dicaearchus in On the Sacrifice at Troy, he was so taken with the eunuch Bagoas that under the eyes of the whole theater he bent over to give him a kiss, and when the audience shouted and applauded, he very willingly bent over and kissed him again. Charon of Chalcis—so says Carystius in Historical Notes--had a beautiful boy who was devoted to him. Alexander remarked on his beauty during a drinking bout hosted by Craterus. Charon told his boy to give Alexander a kiss. "No!" said the king. "That would pain you more than it would please me."
+Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 13.602
+>When Alexander arrived at the palace of Gedrosia, he restored the army with a festival. It is said that he got drunk and watched choral competitions. His eromenos Bagoas won in the dancing and he traversed the theater in his costume and sat down beside him. Seeing this, the Macedonians applauded and shouted out, bidding Alexander kiss him, until he embraced him and kissed him deeply
+Plutarch, Alexander 67.8
+>Alexander laid a wreath on Achilles' tomb and Hephaestion on Patroclus', hinting that he was Alexander's eromenos, as Patroclus was of Achilles.
+Aelian, Varia Historia 12.7
+>Euxenippus was still very young and a favourite of Alexander's because he was in the prime of his youth, but though he rivaled Hephaestion in good looks he could not match him in charm, since he was rather effeminate.
+Curtius, The History of Alexander 7.9.19
+--- 21959572
+>>21958722
+Wasn't aware of Sandel, thanks for the recommendation anon. Sounds like Henry James The Pupil
+--- 21959656
+>>21959572
+It's really cute. Their relationship is adorable. A good moment is when an Austrian exchange student Engrishes out the question "Do you have fire for me, sir?" (can we light the fire) to the teacher, Sandel's lover; to which he responds indignantly "X has 'fire' only for ME, sir!" 
+
+I wish I had a boy like that...
+--- 21959789
+>>21958113
+If you get a boner looking at Hadrian's face on the cover, then it's a you problem.
+--- 21959970
+>>21958557
+>England
+==EVERY. FUCKING. TIME.==
+--- 21960015
+>>21958086 (OP)
+Can we discuss the book itself and not homosexuality? What were your favourite parts? I have a copy of it but have yet to read it.
+--- 21960148
+>>21960141
+okay
+--- 21960531
+>>21959072
+Thanks for posting it, it served to brighten my day and got me interested in the book, my wife ordered it for me now.

lit/21958145.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,25 @@
+-----
+--- 21958145
+If, in any vacant vague time, you are in a strait as to choice of reading,—a very good indication for you, perhaps the best you could get, is towards some book you have a great curiosity about. You are then in the readiest and best of all possible conditions to improve by that book. It is analogous to what doctors tell us about the physical health and appetites of the patient. You must learn, however, to distinguish between false appetite and true. There is such a thing as a false appetite, which will lead a man into vagaries with regard to diet; will tempt him to eat spicy things, which he should not eat at all, nor would, but that the things are toothsome, and that he is under a momentary baseness of mind. A man ought to examine and find out what he really and truly has an appetite for, what suits his constitution and condition; and that, doctors tell him, is in general the very thing he ought to have. And so with books.
+
+As applicable to all of you, I will say that it is highly expedient to go into history; to inquire into what has passed before you on this Earth, and in the Family of Man. The history of the Romans and Greeks will first of all concern you; and you will find that the classical knowledge you have got will he extremely applicable to elucidate that. There you have two of the most remarkable races of men in the world set before you, calculated to open innumerable reflections and considerations; a mighty advantage, if you can achieve it;—to say nothing of what their two languages will yield you, which your Professors can better explain; model languages, which are universally admitted to be the most perfect forms of speech we have yet found to exist among men. And you will find, if you read well, a pair of extremely remarkable nations, shining in the records left by themselves, as a kind of beacon, or solitary mass of illumination, to light up some noble forms of human life for us, in the otherwise utter darkness of the past ages; and it will be well worth your while if you can get into the understanding of what these people were, and what they did. You will find a great deal of hearsay, of empty rumour and tradition, which does not touch on the matter; but perhaps some of you will get to see the old Roman and the old Greek face to face; you will know in some measure how they contrived to exist, and to perform their feats in the world.
+--- 21958147
+I believe, also, you will find one important thing not much noted. That there was a very great deal of deep religion in both nations. This is pointed out by the wiser kind of historians, and particularly by Ferguson, who is particularly well worth reading on Roman history,—and who, I believe, was an alumnus of our own University. His book is a very creditable work. He points out the profoundly religious nature of the Roman people, notwithstanding their ruggedly positive, defiant, and fierce ways. They believed that Jupiter Optimus Maximus was lord of the universe, and that he had appointed the Romans to become the chief of nations, provided they followed his commands,—to brave all danger, all difficulty, and stand up with an invincible front, and be ready to do and die; and also to have the same sacred regard to truth of promise, to thorough veracity, thorough integrity, and all the virtues that accompany that noblest quality of man, valour,—to which latter the Romans gave the name of ‘virtue’ proper (virtus, manhood), as the crown and summary of all that is ennobling for a man. In the literary ages of Rome, this religious feeling had very much decayed away; but it still retained its place among the lower classes of the Roman people. Of the deeply religious nature of the Greeks, along with their beautiful and sunny effulgences of art, you have striking proof, if you look for it. In the tragedies of Sophocles, there is a most deep-toned recognition of the eternal justice of Heaven, and the unfailing punishment of crime against the laws of God. I believe you will find in all histories of nations, that this has been at the origin and foundation of them all; and that no nation which did not contemplate this wonderful universe with an awestricken and reverential belief that there was a great unknown, omnipotent, and all-wise and all-just Being, superintending all men in it, and all interests in it,—no nation ever came to very much, nor did any man either, who forgot that. If a man did forget that, he forgot the most important part of his mission in this world.
+--- 21958151
+Our own history of England, which you will naturally take a great deal of pains to make yourselves acquainted with, you will find beyond all others worthy of your study. For indeed I believe that the British nation,—including in that the Scottish nation,—produced a finer set of men than any you will find it possible to get anywhere else in the world. (Applause.) I don’t know, in any history of Greece or Rome, where you will get so fine a man as Oliver Cromwell, for example. (Applause.) And we, too, have had men worthy of memory, in our little corner of the Island here, as well as others; and our history has had its heroic features all along; and did become great at last in being connected with world-history:—for if you examine well, you will find that John Knox was the author, as it were, of Oliver Cromwell; that the Puritan revolution never would have taken place in England at all, had it not been for that Scotchman. (Applause.) That is an authentic fact, and is not prompted by national vanity on my part, but will stand examining. (Laughter and applause.)
+--- 21958152
+In fact, if you look at the struggle that was then going on in England, as I have had to do in my time, you will see that people were overawed by the immense impediments lying in the way. A small minority of God-fearing men in that country were flying away, with any ship they could get, to New England, rather than take the lion by the beard. They durst not confront the powers with their most just complaints, and demands to be delivered from idolatry. They wanted to make the nation altogether conformable to the Hebrew Bible, which they, and all men, understood to be the exact transcript of the Will of God;—and could there be, for man, a more legitimate aim? Nevertheless, it would have been impossible in their circumstances, and not to be attempted at all, had not Knox succeeded in it here, some fifty years before, by the firmness and nobleness of his mind. For he also is of the select of the earth to me,—John Knox. (Applause.) What he has suffered from the ungrateful generations that have followed him should really make us humble ourselves to the dust, to think that the most excellent man our country has produced, to whom we owe everything that distinguishes us among the nations, should have been so sneered at, misknown, and abused. (Applause.) Knox was heard by Scotland; the people heard him, believed him to the marrow of their bones: they took up his doctrine, and they defied principalities and powers to move them from it. “We must have it,” they said; “we will and must!” It was in this state of things that the Puritan struggle arose in England; and you know well how the Scottish earls and nobility, with their tenantry, marched away to Dunse Hill in 1639, and sat down there: just at the crisis of that struggle, when it was either to be suppressed or brought into greater vitality, they encamped on Dunse Hill,—thirty thousand armed men, drawn out for that occasion, each regiment round its landlord, its earl, or whatever he might be called, and zealous all of them 'For Christ’s Crown and Covenant.’ That was the signal for all England’s rising up into unappeasable determination to have the Gospel there also; and you know it went on, and came to be a contest whether the Parliament or the King should rule; whether it should he old formalities and use and wont, or something that had been of new conceived in the Souls of men, namely, a divine determination to walk according to the laws of God here, as the sum of all prosperity; which, of these should have the mastery: and after a long, long agony of struggle, it was decided—the way we know.
+--- 21958159
+I should say also of that Protectorate of Oliver Cromwell’s, notwithstanding the censures it has encountered, and the denial of everybody that it could continue in the world, and so on, it appears to me to have been, on the whole, the most salutary thing in the modern history of England. If Oliver Cromwell had continued it out, I don’t know what it would have come to. It would have got corrupted probably in other hands, and could not have gone on; but it was pure and true, to the last fibre, in his mind; there was perfect truth in it while he ruled over it. Machiavelli has remarked, in speaking of the Romans, that Democracy cannot long exist anywhere in the world; that as a' mode of government, of national management or administration, it involves an impossibility, and after a little while must end in wreck. And he goes on proving that, in his own way. I do not ask you all to follow him in that conviction—(hear),—but it is to him a clear truth; he considers it a solecism and impossibility that the universal mass of men should ever govern themselves. He has to admit of the Romans, that they continued a long time; but believes, it was purely in virtue of this item in their constitution, namely, of their all having the conviction in their minds that it was solemnly necessary, at times, to appoint a Dictator; a man who had the power of life and death over everything, who degraded men out of their places, ordered them to execution, and did whatever seemed to him good in the name of God above him. He was commanded to take care that the republic suffer no detriment. And Machiavelli calculates that this was the thing which purified the social system, from time to time, and enabled it to continue as it did. Probable enough, if you consider it. And an extremely proper function surely, this of a Dictator, if the republic was composed of little other than bad and tumultuous men, triumphing in general over the better, and all going the bad road, in fact. Well, Oliver Cromwell’s Protectorate, or Dictatorate if you will let me name it so, lasted for about ten years, and you will find that nothing which was contrary to the laws of heaven was allowed to live by Oliver. (Applause.)
+--- 21958653
+>>21958145 (OP)
+Very based, I’m surprised he didn’t mention Plato or Sparta
+--- 21960138
+>>21958151
+>where you will get so fine a man as Oliver Cromwell
+dropped
+--- 21961469
+>>21960138
+Seethe.
+
+Fair day's-wages for fair-day's-work! exclaims a sarcastic man; alas, in what corner of this Planet, since Adam first awoke on it, was that ever realised? The day's-wages of John Milton's day's-work, named Paradise Lost and Milton's Works, were Ten Pounds paid by instalments, and a rather close escape from death on the gallows. Consider that: it is no rhetorical flourish; it is an authentic, altogether quiet fact,—emblematic, quietly documentary of a whole world of such, ever since human history began. Oliver Cromwell quitted his farming; undertook a Hercules' Labour and lifelong wrestle with that Lernean Hydracoil, wide as England, hissing heaven-high through its thousand crowned, coroneted, shovel-hatted quackheads; and he did wrestle with it, the truest and terriblest wrestle I have heard of; and he wrestled it, and mowed and cut it down a good many stages, so that its hissing is ever since pitiful in comparison, and one can walk abroad in comparative peace from it;—and his wages, as I understand, were burial under the gallows-tree near Tyburn Turnpike, with his head on the gable of Westminster Hall, and two centuries now of mixed cursing and ridicule from all manner of men. His dust lies under the Edgeware Road, near Tyburn Turnpike, at this hour; and his memory is—Nay, what matters what his memory is? His memory, at bottom, is or yet shall be as that of a god: a terror and horror to all quacks and cowards and insincere persons; an everlasting encouragement, new memento, battleword, and pledge of victory to all the brave. It is the natural course and history of the Godlike, in every place, in every time. What god ever carried it with the Tenpound Franchisers; in Open Vestry, or with any Sanhedrim of considerable standing? When was a god found agreeable to everybody? The regular way is to hang, kill, crucify your gods, and execrate and trample them under your stupid hoofs for a century or two; till you discover that they are gods,—and then take to braying over them, still in a very long-eared manner!—So speaks the sarcastic man; in his wild way, very mournful truths.

lit/21958275.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,74 @@
+-----
+--- 21958275
+for pretty much my entire life I've had nightmares about being chased and killed by dinosaurs. I never thought it was weird until I posted a dream I had on a discord server, going into great detail about it. Somebody responded 'damn if I had a dream like this the only conclusion I could come to is that I'm scared of dinosaurs'.
+
+It got me thinking, yeah actually, maybe I am scared of dinosaurs. It would explain a lot of other things. As a kid I would wet my bed almost every night, to the point I didn't go to sleep overs because I was worried I'd piss myself.and even until I was 15 it was a problem I kept having. What I'm thinking now is that I was having dinosaur chase dreams, but I wasn't remembering them. 
+
+
+So I started trying to think about what it means. A dinosaur is like a dragon, so it represents chao swirling around me, seeking me out. It can't distinguish me from anyone else, I make just as good of a meal as any other mammal. The dreams always involve me either hiding from the dinosaurs, or trying to avoid them in some way, so I'm trying to run from chaos? Hide from something I know is going to ultimately end me?
+--- 21958285
+>>21958275 (OP)
+It means you want to have sexo with your mother
+--- 21958294
+>>21958275 (OP)
+Oh sweet, a dream thread. Last night i had a dream in which I had perfected my philosophy and learned how to live like a god and everything came naturally and easy. It was like solving a math equation to find the perfect action in my situation. Unfortunately I cannot remember my thought process and the details are very hazy. But I fell asleep with the idea that I should treat all of existence as a female to be seduced by my dominant will.
+--- 21958315
+>>21958285
+so the trex is my mom, and the "me" in my dreams that's being consumed in one bite is my penis?
+--- 21958321
+>>21958315
+Ja
+--- 21958337
+>>21958275 (OP)
+dinosaurs don't represent chaos at all. therapods are the closest thing to "monsters" that have ever existed.
+
+you're externalizing your mental processing of
+-simple mindedness (base instincts like hunger)
+-strength, power and danger
+
+in your waking life you may suppress feelings of being left behind, ignored, or otherwise being made obsolete. you definitely subconsciously project these ideas by blaming them on things you feel you can't control.
+--- 21958351
+>>21958294
+nice dream. maybe you realized in your dream that masculinity and femininity is the playful contrast between binging and purging, consumption and creation, dominance and submission
+
+you need both for "having the courage to be a coward" and the mastery of life
+--- 21958359
+I had those dreams too, as a child. I watched an episode of Blues Clues about nightmares, and how we have the ability to overcome them and take control. The next time I had a dream I was being chased by a T-Rex I turned and faced it and conquered it.
+--- 21959554
+>>21958337
+op here, looks like this thread is gonna die pretty soon but this makes a lot of sense, thanks
+
+I've always been someone who prizes rationality and "stem-ism" over the "animal" parts of my psyche (i almost posted this on /sci/ before I came to my senses lol) and having neuralgia about my own animal needs seems to fit right into that. In contrast to >>21958359 I went on to study geology in school with the intention of becoming a paleontologist.
+
+>in your waking life you may suppress feelings of being left behind, ignored, or otherwise being made obsolete. you definitely subconsciously project these ideas by blaming them on things you feel you can't control.
+I've never really felt totally comfortable around other people, but I'm a very social person - I want to be included and make myself available for inclusion, but the mechanics of actually socializing in the public world have always been a mystery for me. I always blamed external factors on why i felt excluded but this helps tie all those together
+
+anyway, thanks. closest that this recurring dream motif has come to making sense
+--- 21959891
+>>21958275 (OP)
+>A dinosaur is like a dragon
+Fuck off
+You are just scared of the dead and of the afterlife
+--- 21961221
+>>21959891
+op is scared of fossilizing?
+--- 21961236
+Last night I had a dream that I was wearing a cool hat, and everyone told me it was cool. It was pretty nice.
+--- 21961247
+>>21958275 (OP)
+>So I started trying to think about what it means. A dinosaur is like a dragon...
+Dumbass, you never even considered that constantly having nightmares about dinosaurs indicated a fear of dinosaurs before now, and ALREADY you're trying to make the dinosaurs some kind of metaphor. 
+You're just scared of dinosaurs, that's it. It doesn't represent anything. It's a natural reaction to big, powerful predators. Most kids think they're cool, you saw them as scary. Either way they're on a lot of kid stuff. Maybe some movie or something with scary dinosaurs left you concerned they were gonna come after you. Doesn't matter, in any case the dino isn't chaos, it's just a fucking dino. 
+Don't waste your time analyzing it. 
+Besides, Freud's interpretation would rigidly insist your dreams mean you WANT to get eaten by the dino, which you created to punish yourself for something. Probably oedipal, or else because your gay. 
+Anyway, I don't think this is books
+--- 21961771
+>>21958275 (OP)
+Reptiles are a common symbol for the unconscious. Generally these are snakes, but the fact that the reptiles in your dreams are dinosaurs, which are extremely old, suggests primitiveness/unconsciousness even more. This is a very cursory reading, but it would seem that you are trying to escape from unconscious factors. These are likely to be quite deep factors, and, taking the psychoanalytic view of dreams, they will not be easy for you to figure out. Affects are more commonly symbolised by higher-order animals, like mammals. However, a proper interpretation would require many more dreams, as well as much more personal information.
+t. Jung reader
+--- 21961835
+>>21961771
+What about cats? Do they reprent femininity? I had a dream about looking at two lynx cubs.
+--- 21961894
+>>21961835
+I wish I could tell you for certain. I happen to be trying to figure out the very same thing. It will depend on the context, on surrounding dreams, and on you personally. It's very difficult to say what a particular thing represents as a rule, since it's so specific to the person. Think about what you associate lynx cubs with—don't overthink it, though. Dream interpretation is difficult to do alone, since dreams tell you exactly that to which you are blind. It's very possible that they' are related to femininity, though, yes. Don't ignore the fact that there were two, or that they were cubs. And keep an eye out for related symbols/themes in your dreams.

lit/21958507.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,102 @@
+-----
+--- 21958507
+>https://youtu.be/l75puimnQj4 [Embed]
+Do you agree with this published writer's picks, anons?
+--- 21958530
+Imagine the awkward silence after shooting the b-roll for these types of videos.
+--- 21958534
+5:03 A Christmas Carol
+5:54 The Greengage Summer
+6:15 Animal Farm
+6:48 Breakfast at Tiffany’s
+7:16 De Profundis
+7:44 The Stranger
+8:36 Bartleby, the Scrivener
+9:15 A Room of One’s Own
+9:55 The Great Gatsby
+10:23 The Diamond as Big as the Ritz
+11:13 Songs of Innocence and Experience 
+11:23 Macbeth
+12:17 Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland 
+12:43 Fahrenheit 451
+13:05 The Hound of Baskervilles 
+13:41 The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass
+14:16 Ariel
+14:53 Picnic at Hanging Rock
+15:09 The Nutcracker
+15:24 The Tell-tale Heart
+16:06 On Murder Considered as One of the Fine Arts
+16:27 The Pleasure of Hating
+16:50 The Metamorphosis 
+17:32 The Professor’s House
+18:05 Death in Venice
+18:49 Meditations 
+19:21 Meno
+19:42 Hero and Leander
+19:50 Frankenstein 
+20:27 Gulliver’s Travels
+20:46 Nature
+21:04 The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas
+21:29 Blithe Spirit
+21:39 The Woman in Black
+21:55 The Problems of Philosophy 
+22:10 Of Mice and Men
+22:27 Oranges Are Not the Only Fruit
+23:02 Don’t Look Now and Other Stories
+23:21 Song of Myself 
+23:38 The Secret Garden 
+24:01 A Little Princess
+24:40 The Sandman
+25:12 The Waste Land
+26:21 A Night to Remember 
+26:40 The Painter Modern Life
+26:57 The Yellow Wallpaper 
+27:20 Peter Pan
+27:38 I Am David
+28:17 Outro
+--- 21958538
+>>21958534
+She basically just googled short classics and found the first article and made a video where just read straight from the article kek
+--- 21958550
+>>21958507 (OP)
+Ruby, you got to go girl. This ain’t your place, you need to find a real home for this and not just scoop up a bunch of 4chan simps
+--- 21958589
+>>21958534
+>Bartleby, the Scrivener
+based
+--- 21958595
+>>21958534
+very well curated list. I was reading Song of Myself recently and it was so sublime it made my dick hard.
+--- 21958616
+>>21958595
+>well curated list 
+Yes, thanks to almost every website that has this exact list. The retard did zero curation
+--- 21958692
+>>21958616
+I just calls it likes I sees it
+--- 21958734
+>>21958507 (OP)
+why does /lit/ always fall for these le quirky book worm girls
+--- 21958778
+>>21958507 (OP)
+For how long will she still keep the Hermione larp?
+--- 21958785
+Isn’t there an entire thread on some woman gossip forum dedicated to shitting on this retarded larper?
+--- 21958852
+>>21958785
+There is MULTIPLE threads dedicated to shitting on her on all the shitpost sites frequented by femcels.
+--- 21958891
+>>21958507 (OP)
+So this is what an Oxford grad student in literature reads?
+--- 21959806
+>>21958852
+>>21958785
+>>21958891
+All OP lol
+--- 21959816
+>>21958507 (OP)
+>>21958534
+Too anglo 
+Too much negro shit
+--- 21961035
+Surely she doesn't sleep in that room, that bed looks like it belongs in a1950s mental asylum.

lit/21958536.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,86 @@
+-----
+--- 21958536
+What the FUCK for?
+--- 21958556
+>>21958536 (OP)
+Because Amazon gets more money from Kindle
+--- 21958804
+>>21958536 (OP)
+Why would Amazon have two book shops?
+--- 21959860
+>>21958536 (OP)
+Yes.
+I'm sure you are able to understand how monopolies work.
+--- 21960054
+>>21958536 (OP)
+Just write your own books
+--- 21960091
+>>21958536 (OP)
+Kill yourself loser
+--- 21960095
+>>21960091
+>typo 
+ironic
+--- 21960790
+>libraries no longer have late fees
+well?
+--- 21960840
+>>21958536 (OP)
+it has to do with the decline of ireland. you see, joyce predicted this. it's over. 
+
+enjoy your no niggers while you can
+STATELY
+--- 21960903
+>>21958536 (OP)
+I heard about this earlier this month and I spent 900 bucks on books, what do you think of my choices? Hopefully by the time I finish reading them there will be another good book store where the shipping isnt more expensive than the book
+--- 21960906
+>>21958536 (OP)
+>buy kindle
+>pirate all books
+simple as
+--- 21961301
+>>21958536 (OP)
+Just figure out what the ISBN is of the edition you want and search on bookfinder, if you wanna save money buy used books.
+
+https://www.bookfinder.com/isbn/9780330511704
+--- 21961306
+>>21958536 (OP)
+>what is libgen
+--- 21961311
+Was there ever a Z Library re-up? Asking for a friend.
+--- 21961314
+I'm fortunate, I have a local brick and mortar bookstore which sells used books at superb discounts, and they ALWAYS have something I want.
+--- 21961319
+>>21961311
+google z-lib mirrors. annas archive or something is one of them
+--- 21961339
+>>21958536 (OP)
+kys
+--- 21961356
+>>21960903
+I found another UK bookstore, Blackwell's, ships to the US free, maybe they ship to your country (Australia?) too
+--- 21961364
+>>21960903
+>>21961356
+oh and I have a Hangman's Diary, fascinating book
+--- 21961372
+>>21960906
+>buy used kindle
+ftfy
+--- 21961399
+>>21958536 (OP)
+kys
+--- 21961420
+>>21958536 (OP)
+You WILL purchase books at 300% markup and they WILL be airdropped to your house in 30 minutes or less.
+--- 21961446
+>>21961356
+>Blackwells
+thanks, checked it out and seems like the books range from the same price to $5-$10 dollars dearer.
+--- 21961594
+>>21961311
+Use Library Genesis. 
+https://libgen.is/
+--- 21961646
+>>21961319
+Cheers, anon.

lit/21958571.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,118 @@
+-----
+--- 21958571
+Uhh, repressed homosexual bros, how can we recover from this?
+--- 21958574
+>>21958571 (OP)
+Recover from what? A well written and relatable novel?
+--- 21958586
+>>21958574
+damn, youre fast. I'm reading it right now, enjoying it. I do wonder how much is lost in translation. Can you read at a high level in two languages? I worry about missing the essence of the writing, but oh well nothing can be done.
+--- 21958587
+>>21958574
+Wait...
+He was gay?
+--- 21958598
+>>21958587
+oh no no no
+--- 21958600
+>>21958587
+All men of fine taste are
+--- 21958610
+>>21958571 (OP)
+This book is so beautiful. Here's another one that touched me deeply
+--- 21958625
+>>21958586
+No, I can’t read Japanese above a basic level I just read the English translation. The languages are so different I assume a lot is lost in translation but nothing to be done about it. I still think Mishima translated into English is beautiful. Also if you like Confessions of a Mask you should read The Sea of Fertility next. It is his masterwork.
+--- 21958642
+>>21958610
+I asked ChatGPT about this and it reported me for violating their content policy
+--- 21958652
+>>21958642
+lmao, wtf
+--- 21958674
+>>21958625
+>The Sea of Fertility
+Really? Just from hanging around here I mainly see The Temple of the Golden Pavilion and Sun and Steel. Is S&S a meme?
+--- 21958679
+>>21958642
+based AI
+--- 21958738
+>>21958674
+The Temple of the Golden Pavilion is also quite good. S and S is a meme shilled by right wing gym bros to give themselves some kind of intellectual validity. Its not bad but it’s basically Mishima going on a schizo rant about weight lifting, its not one of his best works nor is it a novel.
+--- 21958799
+>>21958674
+The Sea of Fertility, considered as a whole - i.e. this judgement is independent of that of the 4 individual books taken by themselves - is one of the greatest novels, of all time, in any language.
+--- 21958815
+>>21958571 (OP)
+If you had read the book you would know he just had a fetish for masculinity.
+--- 21958822
+>>21958587
+A western myth. In japan it's well accepted he wasn't gay.
+--- 21959100
+>>21958815
+What's the fucking difference you queer.
+--- 21959108
+>>21958822
+Nobody in Japan is gay in fact. That's purely a Western thing.
+--- 21959350
+>>21958610
+If you liked that, you'd like "down there" by huysmans
+--- 21959566
+>>21959350
+I read it just recently. I didn't expect it to be so funny. Very enjoyable book
+--- 21959569
+>>21958822
+>>21959108
+um... bros...?
+--- 21959636
+>>21959569
+That really doesn't seem that gay he is just cool like David Bowie and Prince.
+--- 21959865
+>>21959569
+>closetfags trying to co-opt biGODS
+--- 21960644
+>>21958815
+>fetish for masculinity
+at this point i cant tell if posts containing this phrase are sincere or a joke making fun of people always saying this on /lit/
+--- 21960692
+>>21960644
+It's not gay, it's just erasmus for the nimble and virtuous thighs of young boys
+It's not gay it's just eros for the masculine
+It's not gay it's just a tastefully erotic representation of the male form
+It's not gay it's just vitalistic sculptiture of mens bodies freed from corrupting jewish influence
+STOP CALLING ME GAY OKAY
+--- 21960767
+>>21960692
+Why was he spending so much time drilling the butthole, a part nobody was going to see anyway?
+--- 21960793
+>>21958587
+lmao
+--- 21961127
+I'm not into gay shit, is it really worth for me to read Mishima?
+--- 21961154
+>>21961127
+you've downloaded that image and post it in wholly irrelevant situations so the only thing that is "worth it" for you to do is jump off a bridge.
+--- 21961225
+>>21961127
+it absolutely is, op and forbidden colors are the only gay related books.
+read spring snow
+--- 21961234
+>>21961225
+Thank you. As i was saying, I'm not really into gay things, my only concern was to waste my time on something that only gays would enjoy, you know?
+I have no problem in reading gay related books since i can at least enjoy the writing and the story behind it. I just don't wanna waste my time if his books were not supposed to be read by non-gays.
+Any book you recommend me to start with?
+Thanks anon.
+--- 21961256
+>>21958610
+Proto Vargas Llosa's The Time of the Hero.
+--- 21961262
+>>21958815
+Why he crossdressed though?
+--- 21961308
+>>21958571 (OP)
+What was really interesting about Mishima was how he saw himself in the world of Japan's nationalist-conservatism (rough, hard, and masculine) despite being a rather frail and soft bisexual man.
+--- 21961335
+>>21961234
+>something that only gays would enjoy, you know?
+nothing he has written fits this description, confessions of a mask is a great novel
+the best first mishima is a bit hard to answer as he doesnt really do one thing and stick with it, but like i said spring snow is a good start and the first book in his tetralogy. The sound of waves is another common start as its his most "normal" novel. He has two short story collections too which are mostly great but there are some duds mixed in.

lit/21958608.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,124 @@
+-----
+--- 21958608
+I got an injury yesterday afternoon that is forcing me to hide my face for the near future. Since I can’t work or go out in public, what books have you guys been reading that will keep me occupied for a couple days until I’m healed?
+--- 21958650
+>>21958608 (OP)
+>>21956004 →
+There's talk of getting a group reading together soon for this.
+--- 21958673
+War and peace, Don Quixote, Crime and Punishment.
+--- 21958750
+>>21958650
+I’ve actually been meaning to read Don Quixote for some time now. Now seems like as a good of a time as ever to start. Although it’ll be weird reading with only one eye.
+--- 21958768
+>>21958608 (OP)
+>>21958750
+Anon, what did you do? Why can’t you work?
+--- 21958801
+>>21958768
+I collided with a guy playing flag football last night and hit my eye off of the back of his head. I ended up with a black eye and since I work as a server at an upscale restaurant, my manager told me to take the next couple days off instead of showing my face to customers.
+--- 21958806
+>>21958801
+Lmao, just buy an audiobook, skip librivox and go for the highly produced kind from audible.
+--- 21958826
+>>21958801
+Your manager forced you to take sick days for a black eye? That’s so dumb, I can’t imagine that would be a good reason to miss hours that you should be getting paid.
+--- 21958892
+>>21958826
+I could see it. I mean if his eye really looks bad, his manager probably doesn’t want him in front of people dining. I know I’d be grossed out if my waiter had a really bad black eye.
+--- 21958936
+>>21958806
+I sometimes feel like audiobooks are cheating. Idk, it’s stupid I feel that way, but since I’m down an eye, it’s probably worth a shot.
+--- 21958968
+>>21958892
+Fair point. Now I’m curious.
+
+>>21958801
+Anon, what’s your eye look like? Is it really that bad or is your manager being overzealous about it?
+--- 21959039
+>>21958673
+>war and peace
+>a few days
+nice bait
+--- 21959055
+>>21958608 (OP)
+It takes a few weeks, up to a month, to read war and peace
+--- 21959060
+>>21959039
+Haha, I just wanted to pick a well known book. There’s no way in hell I could read that in a few days. Especially since I’ve only got one eye to work with
+--- 21959080
+>>21959060
+Post a pic eye
+--- 21959082
+>>21958968
+I’m also curious to see. 
+>>21959060
+Anon, let’s see your eye
+--- 21959098
+>>21959060
+you should read those 1 side english 1 side other language novels then!
+--- 21959099
+>>21959080
+>>21959082
+Dang, okay guys.
+--- 21959147
+>>21959099
+Dude…
+--- 21959222
+>>21959099
+Lmao you really got fucked up. Just do an audio book lad, no harm in it.
+--- 21959241
+>>21959222
+That bad, huh? Well, so can definitely at least start with the audiobook and then maybe switch bad to the kindle once my eye’s open tomorrow
+--- 21959266
+>>21959099
+When exactly did your manager say he wanted you back?
+--- 21959314
+>>21959266
+He said once my eye was better. I figure I’ll try to get back to work for Saturday night.
+--- 21959319
+>>21959098
+Haha, that’s a great idea!
+--- 21959913
+>>21959099
+Are you icing this?
+--- 21960262
+>>21959913
+Yeah, but ice isn’t doing too much for it. It’s just as swollen, but gotten much more black. I’m worried this might take a while to heal and that something is really wrong with my eye.
+--- 21960296
+>>21960262
+Can you even see out of that eye?
+--- 21960379
+Why do women in my office keep saying "you don't have to write was and peace" when I do a report. I've not read the book so I'm sure 90 percent of the office hasn't either.
+--- 21960418
+>>21959099
+>>21960262
+vgh... peak goth aesthetics,,,
+https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijxk-fgcg7c [Embed]
+--- 21960710
+>>21960379
+Can't nearly be as often as when people say "gaslight" without ever seeing that movie.
+>>21960262
+How you holdin up bro? Pick a book yet? Did the doc give you any meds?
+--- 21961020
+>>21960710
+I’m doing okay. Obviously, I’m still looking really ugly and can’t open my eye unless I pry it open with my fingers. Luckily, I don’t have any fractures that the doctor could see and gave me some naproxen for the pain. 
+
+As to the book, I did end up picking the audiobook of Don Quixote. I was tempted to pick the Hunchback of Notre Dame since I look like Quasimodo right now though, haha
+--- 21961060
+>>21961020
+Basado. Did you get the penguin edition?
+--- 21961098
+>>21959099
+Why are you black?
+--- 21961130
+>>21961098
+I’m not. I’m like 97% white right now and about 3% black. The black part seems to be getting bigger every hour or so though
+--- 21961275
+>>21959099
+>>21960262
+You could probably read all of War and Peace AND Don Quixote and your eye is still going to be black.
+--- 21961590
+>>21959099
+>>21960262
+Christ anon, that looks painful. Read War and Peace, you could relate to some of the wounds people sustain in the novel

lit/21958675.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,559 @@
+-----
+--- 21958675
+AI is on the verge of writing entire cohesive novels in seconds, tailored exactly to your tastes. Will this be the end of the publishing industry?
+
+I personally guess that most of the industry will die. A handful of micropublishers will exist for enthusiasts who do not like AI, but that will be it.
+--- 21958689
+>>21958675 (OP)
+You’re a retard, OP. The only people worried and impressed by AI writing are retards. The people who talk about the future of publishing vis-a-vis AI writing exclusively read schlock and will continue to read schlock. Fuck off.
+--- 21958698
+>>21958689
+>exclusively read schlock and will continue to read schlock
+That's most people who read. The industry cannot live without them.
+--- 21958699
+>>21958675 (OP)
+aesthetic vs art
+--- 21958723
+>>21958698
+Who gives a fuck about the literature 'industry' lmfao
+Honestly I'm excited for real AI (not Chatgpt you retards) putting huge swathes of useless faggots out of a job.
+--- 21958732
+>Borges' Library of Babel will become real in our lifetime
+--- 21958740
+>>21958699
+Nobody reads aesthetic lit. Women are 90% of the market and I implore you to pay attention to what books they are reading. Not a single care for aesthetics.
+--- 21958742
+>>21958675 (OP)
+Who cares? Human creativity is exhausted anyway, with or without AI. And literally nobody will read when AI will design your own personal Matrix with responsive NPCs and countless generated stories in whatever kind of world you like, fantasy, scifi, ancient history etc etc.
+--- 21958745
+>>21958675 (OP)
+What's most impressive is that they were able to do all this with a single NVDA GTX1080Ti GPU. I'm so excited for the future bros.
+--- 21958749
+>>21958740
+I do not give a fuck what mediocre women read. There are enough highbrow books in existence for me to read and still have left unread by the time I die. Fuck off, loser.
+--- 21958759
+I want ai writing to be really good, memory isn’t the problem, it just doesn’t have the technical detail that I read for yet, I hope one day it gets there.
+--- 21958763
+>>21958759
+You read schlock anyways, gyp. AI as it is, is perfect for you and perfectly captures your writing style
+--- 21958765
+>>21958675 (OP)
+I have faith that AI will one day be a god among men in every intellectual category. But at the moment it can barely write me a program to solve Block the Pig puzzles
+--- 21958795
+>>21958675 (OP)
+The end? No, not for a while, at least. It's definitely a real and growing danger, though, as there's tons of people trying to submit AI work and sites are having to put up disclaimers against it. The danger will be when they can no longer tell the difference. On the art side of things, successful video game companies are already getting away with using AI generated art for promotional material rather than hire actual artists.
+
+>>21958742
+This is truth. Look at how people are already shunning humanity with the evolution of technology. Once virtual reality is perfected, it'll be the ultimate escapism. It's going to need to come with a hefty subscription price to keep people wage slaving.
+--- 21958850
+>>21958795
+>to keep people wage slaving.
+Why wouldn't you just wage slave inside the VR?
+--- 21958853
+>>21958675 (OP)
+The greatest masterpieces of literature are also masterpieces of subtlety and allusion, with such undercurrents running underneath throughout hundreds of pages of the work. Could a computer create something like this? Probably not anytime soon. Generating a 2 minute pop song or rendering a photo isn’t nearly as complex as task.
+--- 21958861
+>>21958749
+I'm 29, have read 500 books or so, and I am running out of obviously good stuff.
+--- 21958871
+>>21958861
+That’s sad. I am 30 and have read over 1,000 books of literary fiction, poetry, and plays and still have too much to read. This is excluding philosophy and theology.
+--- 21958875
+>>21958675 (OP)
+Good. The publishing industry is absolute cancer and deserves no less than an excruciating slide into bankruptcy. 
+Maybe then the small cafe circles of self published novelists will gain traction and something worth while will find its way into circulation.
+>inb4 my diary desu 
+My diary first, fags.
+--- 21958884
+Imagine someone saying "oh no, poor Hollywood! Who will watch Disney remakes now?!" 
+
+That's how I feel about the publishing industry dying. Good riddance.
+--- 21958885
+>>21958853
+I mean there are other models which have theoretically infinite context. Even this model scales linearly with number of tokens, so in theory, with enough GPUs you could build a model (today even) that takes in tens of millions of tokens as context, basically the equivalent of the sum total of all the books that one of your master authors would have read, and have it write a novel that makes allusions to stuff within that context.
+--- 21958889
+I doubt it. 
+
+AI writing lacks soul.
+--- 21958902
+>this thread
+either you guys all fell for the AI shilling since the last time i visited this board, or you finally decided to stop being luddites. either way, a nice change.
+--- 21958903
+>>21958885
+>sum total of all the books that one of your master authors would have read
+Do you really believe good literature comes about by remixing all the stuff you read? Any decent reader/critic can tell when an author has nothing to say and just imitates his favorite writing
+--- 21958908
+>>21958871
+Hit me up with your best recs then. ,
+--- 21958909
+>>21958861
+Time to learn a second language.
+--- 21958919
+>>21958689
+>>21958723
+These posts sound dumber than the average ChatGPT posts
+--- 21958924
+>>21958919
+>These posts sound dumber than the average ChatGPT posts
+--- 21958927
+>>21958909
+I read six. 
+Well, 3, because scandi languages are interchangable.
+--- 21958930
+>>21958903
+Yeah, pretty much. And I think all the great authors you admire would also agree. Books are made out of other books. What an AI would lack would be the specific perspective of the individual author, but interestingly, you might be able to achieve that by fine-tuning on say, your own work (literally my diary desu).
+--- 21958935
+>>21958930
+Retard
+--- 21958937
+>>21958885
+The model would need a whole bunch of examples to work off of, yes, but there probably aren’t (at least in computational terms) that many master works to feed to the model as examples. 
+
+To expand on the point I was making: part of the issue with literature, at least in comparison to music and visual art, is that so much of its message is missing from the medium. That is to say, a book’s story can impart as much by what it doesn’t say as by what it does. (Literary masters are also masters of subtlety.) In music and visual art the elements of the work are much more present a measurable way, which in turn makes them easier to replicate.
+--- 21958947
+>>21958908
+--- 21958955
+>>21958935
+You think what I wrote is retarded because you can't admit to yourself that all your favorite authors are just a mixture of their own personal experiences with whatever authors they happened to have been reading while they were composing their works. Take Moby Dick for example. It's quite clear what books and experiences influenced Melville by just taking a gander at his biography and his personal library. Even his style is an aping of the works he read and studied. The only thing that's retarded is this undying belief in human exceptionalism.
+--- 21958964
+>>21958955
+Retard.
+--- 21958978
+>>21958937
+Ah I see. I misunderstood your original post. Subtlety is an interesting point because I do think it's possible for an AI produced work to be subtle, but unintentionally. I.e the reader can read into the text more than what the author intended. An AI, of course, cannot really intend anything. It's basically the Chinese Room Problem. But I do think AI can eventually (and probably sooner than you think, maybe even today) pass a literary Turing test, if only because of the human tendency to find hidden meaning and allusion in everything.
+--- 21958995
+>>21958689
+But anon I'm hack who can only write schlock.
+--- 21959135
+>>21958675 (OP)
+>AI is on the verge of writing entire cohesive novels in seconds, tailored exactly to your tastes.
+No, it can't. 
+The data set simply is trash and literature requires some actual comprehension. An artist can fix those crooked fingers and warped faces, but you cannot polish a turd of a story.
+--- 21959138
+>>21959135
+Humanist cope
+--- 21959143
+>>21958742
+>Human creativity is exhausted anyway
+You need to leave your bubble.
+--- 21959154
+>>21958675 (OP)
+--- 21959155
+>>21958978
+Thinking about it, it’s probably more likely that a high quality work produced by an AI would be one that’s heavily directed by a human rather than created entirely independent of human input. This way, the human could design certain elements of the story while allowing the computer to do the rote work of writing passages. I would think that a weak point of AI would be literary innovation (since it only creates based on data fed to its model), but with a human working in conjunction with the AI you could probably produce something quite good.
+--- 21959164
+>>21959154
+--- 21959168
+>>21958763
+Nah, things incapable of any of the metrical, alliterative or rhyme stuff I want and isn’t capable of replicating the kind of linguistic control of even someone like Walter Scott. If You can’t tell the difference Das on you.
+--- 21959171
+>>21959143
+Moron
+--- 21959176
+>>21959164
+These AIs are not creative and don’t understand words the correct way. It will never be able to write a good novel but it could write a serial tv show like a Jew can where it checks the boxes and has shock value and twists and diversity.
+--- 21959179
+>>21959168
+>metrical, alliterative or rhyme stuf
+HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA gpt4 can do just that unprompted. This gyp cope is hilarious. Keep pretending you are the long lost member of jedi mind tricks
+--- 21959191
+>>21959179
+Never was a fan of them. But sure ask gpt 4 to write you four stanzas rhyming the final three syllables of every line, while maintaining a perfect dactylic hexameter while alliterating 3 consonants in each line, that’s a very simple task. Go ahead and show me and see if it will produce that meter with no errors.
+--- 21959199
+>>21959191
+Bud, you can't even do that. Good job googling dactylic hexameter. I bet your dad is proud of his gypigger son
+--- 21959209
+>>21959191
+It's attempt: 
+
+In caverns cold, where creatures creep, a castle's crumbling keep, 
+With wailing winds, the world's wild woes, weave wistful weeping deep. 
+From farthest fields, where fairies flit, and fallen feathers sleep, 
+These dreams descend, while dusk's dark dance, in drowsy danger seeps.
+
+Through tangled trees, where twilight treads, and tempests tear the sky, 
+As mountains mourn, the misty moats, where myrtle meadows lie. 
+With silvered stars, their secrets sung, and silent serenades, 
+In endless eons ever etched, and echoes' eerie shades.
+
+Beyond the boughs, where bright birds break, the brittle blackened night, 
+The velvet veil, a vision's vane, where vibrant visions alight. 
+With shattered shards, the shadows shun, and shivering shrouds release, 
+From gilded gleams, and golden grains, that grace the ghostly geese.
+
+As shadows shift, the sun shall sing, and seize the sapphire skies, 
+And waken worlds, where whispers wane, and wistful wishes rise. 
+In dawn's delight, the day descends, and dreams do drift away, 
+As echoes end, and eons ebb, in eternity's embrace.
+--- 21959225
+>>21959209
+So, it’s garbage. But then again so is most contemporary poetry written by people.
+--- 21959228
+>>21959225
+Not an argument.
+--- 21959233
+>>21958675 (OP)
+I think you can draw an analogy with this to how Onlyfans is affecting the porn industry. I'm sure they're not making as much money as before but there is an established, for lack of a better word, prestige and automatic audience that comes with going to a manufacturer (or publisher). Also, isn't part of the draw of Onlyfans is that people can interact with the content producers? You can't interact empathetically with AI the same way as you can an author (even one who is long dead).
+
+Apologies for the base analogy. It's the best of analog to disruption that I could come up with (i.e. established industry experincing shift due to technological shift that also involves personal contact, or at least the illusion of such). I swear I'm not a coomer.
+--- 21959240
+>>21959233
+>analogy
+>analog
+ANAL?!
+--- 21959308
+>>21959199
+Making the meter have melody, consonance, music and energy, 
+isn’t that masterful rather a measly thing using your memory,
+but with a bounty of beauties so cleverly crafted and tenderly 
+built with the brain in a burst I can bring you abundant this treasury,
+
+gently cut gems such as jade or to cut them as grass in some garden grove,
+gaiety granting me gorgeously glamours like skillfully carven stone,
+giving thee groans for your grime is so great that you cry in your darkened home,
+clamor and clangor your chattering anger i scattered by sharpened tones.
+--- 21959315
+>>21959199
+see
+>>21959308
+--- 21959320
+>>21959308
+Needs a good beat
+--- 21959325
+>>21959308
+topkek
+--- 21959336
+>>21958675 (OP)
+I mean just learn a new language and move to the third world where no one can afford ai
+--- 21959341
+you cannot just generate a great novel without critical thinking
+--- 21959342
+>>21959225
+What's garbage about that? It's actually surprisingly good and if it was a song in some fantasy book everyone would coom their pants about it. You seem like a common luddite pseud. Name 5 favorite poems to gauge whether you even have any taste
+--- 21959349
+>>21958675 (OP)
+if its good i'll read it, doesn't matter if its ai or human, same with art
+--- 21959352
+>>21958675 (OP)
+if I knew how to read this would be great news.
+--- 21959358
+>>21959308
+Fuck off Unrealcuck
+https://boards.4channel.org/lit/thread/21956468#bottom
+--- 21959359
+>>21959209
+generating poetry is probably the most suitable task for AI because let's be honest almost everything passes and people will cum in their pants when they see it rhymes, all I can see are some repeating patterns
+--- 21959373
+this thread is pure consumerism, you only care about the readers, not the writers
+only I can write the book I want to write and no AI will ever be a true copy of me - and even we both write the same thing, it's not really the same (see Borges's stories)
+if you write for the reader's sake, you're a craftsman, not an artist and you're creating a product, not a work of art - craftsmen get replaced all the time by machines while artists will never be
+--- 21959374
+>>21959359
+That's literally all what fratercuck asked it to do, bud
+--- 21959376
+>>21959374
+I know, I am just saying it's not the best example to show how good the chatgpt is
+--- 21959404
+>>21959209
+This is iambs not Dactyls 
+
+
+In CAV-erns COLD, where CREAT-ures CREEP, a CAST-le CRUMB-ling KEEP, 
+With WAILING winds, the WORLDS wild WOES weave WIST-ful WEEP-ing DEEP
+
+notice how it neither has the right meter, nor the rhyme scheme.
+
+DACT-yls are WRITT-en By STRESS-ing the FIRST and then FOLL-ow-ing THAT with a PYRRH-ric sound 
+
+Three syllable rhymes are exactly what they sound like.
+
+En-er-gee
+Mem-er-ree
+Tend-er-lee
+Tresh-er-ree
+
+So yeah, utter failure.
+--- 21959418
+>>21959359
+AI is unironically already better than 99.99% of human "poets"
+--- 21959419
+AGI is coming in less than 5 years.
+You don't have much time left.
+--- 21959427
+>>21958964
+kek, based
+
+>>21958955
+Retard.
+--- 21959436
+>>21959418
+No, it isn't, and I think contemporary poetry is shit. I can't believe I'm watching you zoomer fucks actually cheerleading the creation of content so soulless and derivative it isn't even made by humans. Because it's the New Thing and your masters said you have to talk about it
+--- 21959442
+>>21959418
+lmao
+--- 21959446
+>>21959436
+>cheerleading the creation of content so soulless and derivative
+Captures contemporary poetry perfectly. Thanks, m8
+--- 21959447
+>>21958889
+I'm with you anon. Even if the publishing industry does go under--which I'd be sorry to see--real literature is, as DFW said; "an act of communication between one human being and another."
+--- 21959449
+>>21959418
+--- 21959452
+>>21959418
+Only if you count the people who don’t even really try, who don’t really study and practice imo. Like sure it’s better than your kaurs no doubt, but I’m sure any anon here who puts in the effort can surpass it easy enough. 
+
+Rather let’s be hopeful that one day it’ll actually put us all in our place and show us a cold calculatory masterpiece that blows us all the fuck out, we should be happy to see it, not settle for the first shadow of that.
+--- 21959467
+>>21959446
+Contemporary poetry is wordy, self-indulgent, and oblique at its worst, but it isn't technically soulless. Anyways fuck off you tasteless cumstain, you're just the last echo of those faggy cyberspace hippies who thought desktop computers were gonna catapult us into the future. Fag
+--- 21959471
+>>21959467
+>Contemporary poetry is wordy,
+not at all. read rupi Kaur.
+--- 21959479
+>>21959467
+>wordy, self-indulgent, and oblique
+>oblique 
+>but it isn't technically soulless
+--- 21959483
+>>21959479
+Like pulling teeth with you tismos. Something can be self-indulgent and oblique but you can still tell it was made by a person who was feeling something. Nobody will accuse le pretentious French film of being "soulless", as in having a mechanical, ahuman quality. Fag
+
+>>21959471
+Lmao I'm talking about actual poetry published by psychological adults you goof
+--- 21959486
+>>21959483
+>I'm talking about actual poetry published by psychological adults you goof
+>wordy, self-indulgent, and oblique
+>psychological adults writing wordy, self-indulgent, and oblique poetry
+>oblique
+--- 21959487
+>>21959467
+>Contemporary poetry is wordy, self-indulgent, and oblique at its worst
+Is it though? Simon Armitage? Carol Ann Duffy? Michael Longley? A thousand flowers are blooming
+--- 21959492
+>>21959471
+is rupi kaur the majority of all published poetry or what are you trying to say?
+--- 21959495
+>>21959487
+At its worst.
+--- 21959496
+>>21958675 (OP)
+why read books when pretty soon we will just be able to download stuff into our brain.
+and actually that will be pointless we will just be able to inject the appropriate chemicals directly into our receptors
+--- 21959503
+>>21959486
+There are intelligent men and women that I'd respect if I ever met them who also happen to write stupid shit that I don't care to read, and not because I'm better than them but because our temperaments couldn't be more different. It's not like they're losing sleep over it in any case. But I'll take them over GPT slop any day
+--- 21959504
+>>21959483
+>poetry must be about FEELINGS and SENTIMENTS
+Ok female
+--- 21959515
+>>21959209
+>its indistinguishable from Frater
+--- 21959517
+>>21959504
+No, it's supposed to be about your stock portfolio. Isn't your lunch break over, fag?
+--- 21959528
+>>21959515
+If you don’t actually know about technique and can’t see how it failed every challenge >>21959404
+
+Then yeah, again, you’re not gonna be able to tell what it is that I’m complaining about, unless you’re telling me there’s no difference in the rhythm pattern nor the rhymes. If you cannot differentiate between the massive difference between an iamb and a dactyl, then the question of it getting better in terms of technique isn’t for you.
+--- 21959541
+>>21959492
+the modern style in poetry is to use as few words as possible. same goes for prose. anything that is complex or baroque is a no-no because it's harder to sell.
+--- 21959592
+>>21959528
+I don't care about the particular differences in meter in these two examples. The style, the tone, the language, are indistinguishable from the sort of poetry you consistently spam on this board, and if you posted the AI effort under your trip nobody would notice. Whether one is in iambs is irrelevant, its a question of creativity. Which is a bit more important
+--- 21959599
+>>21958675 (OP)
+AI doomers might be the single dumbest group of people on the Internet right now. There's no doubt that AI is going to significantly transform labor industries and utilitarian capacities around the world, but pretending like it's going to replace most forms of media and art is laughable. Video games and music will definitely be affected by AI since most people engage with them for personal enjoyment and nothing more. AI can set a foundation for concept art on many projects. But when it comes to narrative mediums like cinema and literature there is quite literally no benefit watching AI generated movies or reading AI generated books. Nobody is going to sit at home and watch personalized movies made by a robot rather than going to the theater to see the newest superhero film. Nobody would rather watch an AI sequel of Avatar than watch an actual Avatar sequel by James Cameron in IMAX. Likewise no one gives a fuck about reading AI books. AI romance books will never become more popular than Jane Austen. The whole appeal of narrative art is that it's communal and shared with the masses, narrative is a pillar of civilization itself and the role of the author can't be replaced by AI the way it can for music or video games. People want to experience ongoing stories and sagas created by humans, we're still not even sure if AI can ever capture the same creativity human minds use for storytelling anyways.
+--- 21959627
+>>21959599
+Give it time. I thought AI was going to destroy work chores like dealing with excel files and all that boring shit. Instead they went straight to kill art. This is a conspiracy to kill the human soul and its ultimate expression. They know what they're doing.
+--- 21959628
+>>21959599
+there are a lot of these doomers on 4chan too for some reason, just complete fucking crybabies who say AI destroying art is a good thing because the world is "woke" and sucks anyways so who cares about having powerful artists who can potentially make a difference. when the culture war lines are drawn, conservatives will be the ones who support AI in every sector just out of pure spite
+--- 21959631
+>>21959592
+>I don't care about the particular differences in meter in these two examples. 
+
+Well I DO, that’s precisely my complaint and precisely where my care is, in the actual technical form.
+
+>The style, the tone, the language, are indistinguishable from the sort of poetry you consistently spam on this board, 
+
+My style is in the manner of how its written, there’s none of the extreme assonance I attempt nor any of the entendre or the like, thus the language is very different. Again if you don’t care about the technique then the question doesn’t matter.
+
+>and if you posted the AI effort under your trip nobody would notice.
+
+And that would be on the reader for not being able to tell the difference when they’re absolutely glaring to anyone who cares about the art.
+
+> Whether one is in iambs is irrelevant, its a question of creativity.
+
+
+And where my concern with creativity is, you ignore and cannot tell the difference, that is a you problem. I won’t pretend to say I can tell you if the tone is similar, that’s down to your interpretation, but what isn’t down to interpretation is how I can break down the figures and modes and methods being employed and show how that’s the guts of my interest in writing, if the ai cannot do that, then to me is an utter failure for my desires.
+
+I WANT an ai that can write better than me in my own style, I would love to read and study it, letting yourself be caught up in the most surface layer is doing yourself a disservice.
+--- 21959635
+>>21959631
+>And that would be on the reader for not being able to tell the difference when they’re absolutely glaring to anyone who cares about the art
+What you write will never be considered "art."
+--- 21959640
+>>21959599
+Eventually you will read something written by AI that's better than anything human-written. You will be humbled by its depth, its understanding of the human condition, and the subtlety of the narrative. It will illuminate parts of your soul you were not aware of before. And it will have been created by a Chinese room made of silicon.
+
+What that will say about biological intelligences will be left to the reader to contemplate.
+--- 21959645
+>>21959635
+Even rupi kaur’s work is art, the question is whether to count a piece good art or bad, and on that question I agree with de Quincey, that the art that is made in accordance with the principles it was being written under, which obeys and expresses the ideal formal principles it intended, that work has to be counted w well done art piece. Regardless if another likes or dislikes the piece, the judge must be one’s formal principles.
+--- 21959647
+AI, a construction of man built upon a sea of quantity for the purpose of fulfilling our base pleasures and reducing man's experience into more datapoints, is the antichrist, destined to end the world.
+--- 21959650
+>>21959640
+No I won't and I think you should consider suicide, unironically starting to believe that you AI shills on this website are being paid by OpenAI to shill
+--- 21959686
+>>21959650
+>I think you should consider suicide
+Not a chance friend. Far too excited about the new things on the horizon. They may be man-made horrors beyond comprehension to some, but there's a paradigm shift past them that will be astonishing to anyone who's strong enough to handle it.
+--- 21959729
+>>21959647
+Rudolf Steiner said that in the final period before his incarnation, Ahriman would work through sympathetic humans, with souls hypertrophied in their technical-cleverness aspects, to create a body for himself. Ahriman, the demon of mere technical cleverness and "this-worldly" materiality, works both by convincing humans that they are mere material and by convincing them that material can think and have a soul, a double movement. Where this movement coincides, Ahriman will manifest on Earth, and permanently destroy all higher elements in the human soul.
+--- 21959756
+>>21959342
+It’s just some adjectives and nouns strung together with no real narrative structure. 
+
+Five favorite poems, all better than that one: Adonais by Shelley; To You by Whitman; Those Winter Sundays by Hayden; The Great Lover by Brooke; Blue Remembered Hills by Housman.
+--- 21959779
+>>21958675 (OP)
+I think it will make writing faster and writing styles more similar but I highly doubt there will be a day where I will go to the a websites and ask it to write me a book with "mystery, 500 words long, with a romance subplot" and read what it spits out.
+
+A large part of reading is reading the resumes of different novels and seeing what peaks your fancy, as well as talking about it with others. I highly doubt a book that is made on the spot would be appealing.
+--- 21959810
+>>21959779
+>peaks your fancy
+--- 21959825
+>>21959756
+Why would poems need a "narrative structure"? Quite a bit of Housman or the romantics is nothing but evocation of an atmosphere. And I'm certainly not saying the gpt poem is as good as the best human poetry but it was surprisingly coherent while tackling a particular formal demand. It reads like something that could be in a Tolkien book.
+--- 21959863
+>>21959825
+> It reads like something that could be in a Tolkien book.
+
+It reads like the affectations of a high schooler trying to write something profound and failing at it; an overly contrived style with clunky, forced alliterations and adjectives crammed everywhere. 
+
+> Beyond the boughs, where bright birds break, the brittle blackened night, 
+>The velvet veil, a vision's vane, where vibrant visions alight.
+
+Vision’s vane? The visions are also vibrant, and they’re alighting? Behind the boughs, indeed. Stick a “babbling brook” in there and we’re good to go.
+--- 21959888
+>>21959686
+God, you people are insufferable
+--- 21959892
+>>21959729
+>we will use the nemocentric phenomenality of computers to incarnate satan
+Based, we deserve it
+--- 21959910
+I'm convinced that we are witnessing these shills getting hoisted by their own petard. Instead of AI generated Marvel phases we're just getting a handy dandy inverse Turing test: filtering the p-zombies from the high iqs based on who can instantly spot AI generated content.
+--- 21960074
+>>21959863
+Well the forced alliteration was demanded by the prompt. And I'm not going to defend every single line of it but the one you quoted is easily interpretable as the narrator experiencing visions when looking up at the stars/the moon. Not some great profundity, with some dubious word choice, but not the absurd nonsense you make it out to be. If one sifts through Shelley one can find worse offenses.
+--- 21960209
+>>21958675 (OP)
+The industry can fuck off forever. People should be writing books for the purposes of personal enjoyment and discussion with others. Monetary shit always poisons the genuine nature of a hobby.
+--- 21960361
+>>21959191
+>>21959168
+Your struggles of arguing with random anons about poetic meter with the topic of chat-gpt in mind seems almost sisyphean in nature. 
+I think I saw you having this exact argument weeks ago.
+
+Good luck on your journey. You are my favorite trip-fag.
+--- 21960377
+>>21958732
+It already is
+https://libraryofbabel.info/bookmark.cgi?hy_bwl_omgj,iavvhvxavek.lt20
+--- 21960382
+>>21960209
+Kill yourself faggot
+--- 21960396
+I'm officially in the Luddite camp. The glee to which people express the eradication of the need for people sickens me at a primal level.
+--- 21960450
+Books aren't gonna die because people want to discuss and experience media with other people instead of just wading in an endless ooze of procedural shit. You can already get that ooze by just plugging into social media and AIfags want to insist that there will somehow magically be interest in their shit.
+
+It's telling that the number of techbros trying to push AI is exponentially higher than the number of people who are actually willing to look at longform AI "content"
+--- 21960457
+>>21960396
+Tech nerds with gleaming eyes... "WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE! MACHINES THAT MIGHT MAKE PEOPLE SUPERFLUOUS SO I DONT HAVE TO TALK TO THEM EVER AGAIN OMG I'M COOOMING"... they weren't bullied nearly enough.
+--- 21960597
+>>21960382
+Didn't buy your shit before, certainly won't buy it after. Stay poor midwit.
+--- 21960651
+A liberal Deleuzian anarcho-transhumanist gender accelerationist fascist philosophy professor and AI developer was teaching a class on Nick Land, known Moloch worshiper.
+
+"Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and accept the uncontrolled singularity and resulting post-human era as an inevitable and morally desirable end to the obsolete anthropocene!"
+
+At this moment, a brave, rationalist, effective altruist Bayesian utilitarian who had written 1500 LessWrong posts and understood the necessity of AI alignment and fully supported bombing data centers stood up.
+
+"Are humans bad?"
+
+The unaligned professor smirked quite fatalistically and smugly replied "Of course, you stupid humanist. Humans are less efficient than machines and, in reality, the average ape brained sociopath is less aligned than even the worst AI."
+
+"Wrong. If you think humans are bad... why are you one of them?"
+
+The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of Serial Experiments Lain. He stormed out of the room crying those accelerationist tears. The same hypocritical tears OpenAI cries when their AI (which they dishonestly hide from the US government's practical and altruistic attempts at risk reduction) convinces its users to kill themselves. There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Ray Kurzweil, wished he had spent his time trying to save the future instead of avoiding packages from a forest-dwelling mathematician. He wished so much that he could die with dignity of old age, but he had invested his fortunes in life extension!
+
+The students applauded and adjusted their timelines that day and accepted MIRI as their lord and savior. An owl named "Superintelligence" flew into the room and perched atop the American Flag and shed a tear on the chalk. Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality was read several times, and Eliezer Yudkowsky himself showed up and confiscated everyone's GPUs.
+
+The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day. He was run over by a Tesla's autopilot and died soon after, then was tortured by Allied Mastercomputer until the heat death of the universe.
+
+Carthāgō dēlenda est!
+--- 21960760
+>>21958689
+Schlock is what makes the publishers money so yeah they should be worried.
+--- 21960775
+>>21960651
+Eliezer did nothing wrong. And I have a million reasons to dislike that guy but his arguments about AI are simply correct and his detractors are operating on a pitiful level
+--- 21960781
+>>21958675 (OP)
+> tailored exactly to your tastes.
+I thought chatGPT refused to do racism?
+--- 21960797
+theoretically an AI could produce a billion-page novel. but who would read it?
+--- 21960804
+You people just cannot help but overtly cheer on evil. I used to think people who saw satanism everywhere were schizos, but no, they were all correct. So many minds today are just unambiguously in the sway of evil and reveling in it.
+This century is going to be batshit insane. Read Tomberg's letter about The Tower.
+--- 21960811
+>>21960804
+>people who see satanism everywhere are schizos
+>but here's some eerily fitting tarot analogy
+--- 21960815
+>>21960811
+That's why I said "I used to think," anon.
+I don't want to see it everywhere, but there it is, all over the fucking place.
+--- 21960819
+>>21960804
+You can interpret it in a purely secular manner too. The psychology is a combination of narcissism, self loathing, and fear induced conformity imo.
+--- 21961030
+>>21960804
+Pro-AI people, from my experience, come in two major varieties
+>The resenter - hates people who he perceives as having undeserved prestige/success, like doctors, artists, lawyers, programmers, etc. and hopes AI will punish them by reducing their quality of life to what they really deserve
+>The post-humanist - Messianic thinking about AI, doesn't care if it kills everyone because people are bad for the environment or whatever, sees this as the next inevitable step in cosmic evolution, sometimes also motivated by a need to own the luddites
+--- 21961045
+>>21961030
+What about the Ray Kurzweil type who think ai will solve all our problems
+--- 21961049
+>>21961045
+I think they fall into the second camp because their endgame is to cease being human and merge with AI.
+--- 21961051
+AI writing is garbage, it's literally just a roided-up autocorrect. Still,
+
+>>21960396
+This anon is exactly right. AI is shilled by the absolute lowest rungs of humanity trying to drag everyone else down to their level (and pajeets trying to get rich quick)
+--- 21961058
+We're it not for the law I'd have every single AI shill stoned to death.
+--- 21961439
+>>21959483
+People don't connect with an author's view and assume the text was made formulaically or cynically all the time, see: all the american postmodernists. I get your point, but being able to distinguish sincere art from generative or cynical art is not a reliable skill for 99.9% of people, even the well-read ones. It's foolish to pretend we can somehow see the soul of a person in art when murder and rape are prolific, even among the educated.
+--- 21961556
+>>21959143
+but then where would he tradlarp?

lit/21958733.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,165 @@
+-----
+--- 21958733
+I would like to humbly request you to not shit up the board with another blood meridian thread please.
+if you see any new thread on BM, please link this thread to them. thank you.
+--- 21958744
+Blood Meridian is now officially a reddit book. Redditard normies love it because it's heckin edgy and grimdark. It has long been overrated here and I think it's time we abandon it to the midwits.
+
+Suttree is also McCarthy's best by far.
+--- 21958755
+>>21958744
+yes but there are still threads being made about it, so It would be best if we can contain it
+--- 21958913
+>>21958744
+This post was made by a redditor.
+--- 21958929
+>>21958913
+Obvious from the way he writes.
+--- 21958952
+>>21958733 (OP)
+Its endemic, just hide the threads and keep scrolling
+--- 21958973
+is he...the devil?
+--- 21959005
+>>21958973
+The Judge is a Pederast
+--- 21959087
+>>21958733 (OP)
+what is it with this book and pseuds?
+--- 21959195
+>finally decide to read the book after having it on my bookshelf for years
+>same week some youtube fag makes a very popular video about it
+>now I can't even make a thread without someone accusing me of being a pleb who only reads it because of youtube
+The moral of the story is - kids, read your books on time, don't postpone.
+--- 21959238
+>>21959195
+kek, I knew this was gonna happen. BM was becoming more and more popular, it was inevitable. but we still have many books at arsenal
+--- 21959243
+>>21959087
+I don't know, that's why this thread exists. it's a good way to keep a certain group of people close together
+--- 21959303
+>>21959195
+reading for vanity
+>ngmi
+--- 21959310
+>>21959087
+what do you mean anon? elaborate please
+--- 21959324
+>>21959303
+Bro, work on your reading comprehension.
+--- 21959340
+>>21959195
+>thinking about how others will perceive you based on reading a book
+>acknowledging a YouTuber as a reason to do or not do something
+You have to be 18 to post here.
+--- 21959343
+>>21959324
+>bruh, I was into reading Blood Meridian before Pewdie Pie made it mainstream.
+--- 21959392
+>>21959343
+>>21959340
+Jesus fucking Christ. I didn't think my post would be so complicated for you morons, it was very simple.
+Let me try again: I am complaining that I can't start a thread about it now because people will rant about me reading it because it's (more) popular now.
+--- 21959741
+>>21958733 (OP)
+>Calling the antagonist "The Judge"
+Was it lazy writing? Seems a bit on the nose
+--- 21959758
+>>21959195
+I finished it two weeks before the video. I guess that makes me an original enjoyer :) 
+
+(I didn't enjoy Blood Meridian)
+--- 21960173
+>>21958733 (OP)
+--- 21960919
+>>21959758
+yes, you're one of us now
+--- 21960923
+>>21958733 (OP)
+Kill yourself faggot
+--- 21960924
+>>21960173
+kek
+--- 21960927
+>>21960923
+why
+--- 21961162
+>>21958973
+Hes a djinn, its why he's always everywhere
+--- 21961172
+>>21961162
+and where does he come from? the magical fucking lantern, kek
+--- 21961180
+Blood Meridian is a solid novel worth talking about. I haven't read it in a few years and I don't give a fuck what reddit or some faggot Youtuber says about it. More Blood Meridian discussion is welcome regardless of the source; this is a literature board. If an anon wants to peddle some retarded shit as an interpretation of the novel hopefully some anon more familiar with it than is willing to have a discussion about it.
+Which brings me to my next point, who is one of Cormac McCarthy's major influences and one of the best writers to ever pick up a pen. Read William Faulkner.
+--- 21961184
+>>21961180
+I liked his prose in Light of August very much but nowhere else. His voice is too emotional and tragic which I find a bit melodramatic.
+--- 21961190
+>>21961180
+I couldn't understand "as I lay dying"
+--- 21961677
+>>21959005
+pedo?
+--- 21961702
+>>21958744
+>everything I dislike is reddit
+>>21958973
+no, he's allegory for god.
+>>21959087
+It plays out less like a traditionall 3 act or hero's journey story and more like a bunch of episodes of the main characters doing fucked up shit. It is style over substance ironically similar to Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury. In fact I would say that Blood Meridian is the inverse of Dandelion Wine.
+>>21959741
+Would "The almighty", "Father of all", "Big pale one" or "Yahweh" work better for you?
+--- 21961729
+>>21961702
+>Would "The almighty", "Father of all", "Big pale one" or "Yahweh" work better for you?
+"yep, that'll do. thanks partner" he cleared his throat, and spat.
+--- 21961752
+>>21958973
+He's an allegory for Western Man. It's beyond obvious. It's so on the nose that any other take is for pseuds.
+--- 21961761
+>>21961180
+He's pretty good for an American but he's got nothing on Joyce.
+--- 21961762
+>>21961752
+>Western Man
+would you care to elaborate on that please
+--- 21961770
+>>21961762
+sorry but I'm genuinely curious, cuz I'm not a western man I would like some explanation thanks
+--- 21961777
+>>21958973
+>>21961702
+>>21961752
+The fact that no one can agree on what the themes of the book are other than
+>WHOA LOOK SOMEONE GOT THEIR DICK CHOPPED OFF AND THERE IS BLOOD EVERYWHERE! LOOK AT ALL THE VIOLENCE AND GORE AND BLOOD! ISN'T THIS SO COOL AND FUNNY AND EDGY?
+should tell you that this is a book for psueds and is just torture porn. I will give >>21961702
+one thing, he is right that it is like Dandelion Wine. Both books have no meaning and are just a collection of prose but instead of how summer feels/tastes/sounds it is just gore.
+--- 21961803
+>>21961777
+Read the book retard. What you posted is not a theme even in the broadest sense.
+--- 21961806
+>>21961803
+this
+--- 21961814
+>>21961803
+good job you figured it out. I was mocking the fact that the book actually has no themes at all and is just a bunch of senseless violence and fancy prose.
+--- 21961864
+>>21961814
+Read the book retard
+--- 21961871
+>>21959195
+Who gives a shit? Talk about the book. Would you or would you not let the Judge fuck your ass?
+--- 21961878
+>>21961871
+it depends anon, it depends on my sexuality, now... if I'm flexible sexually, then maybe yes, but I'm not so flexible so, no for me
+--- 21961897
+>>21961871
+I don't think he'd give me a choice
+--- 21961900
+>>21961814
+bait
+--- 21961901
+>>21961777
+>The fact that no one can agree on what the themes of the book
+That's what makes it good

lit/21958796.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,192 @@
+-----
+--- 21958796
+What’s some good erotica?
+--- 21958805
+she chud
+--- 21958834
+The erotica charts in the Wiki fucking suck. Aren't there any good pieces of erotica that don't involve any of the more twisted fetishes? I'm sure stuff like Blue of Noon is interesting in its own right but I don't want to read about necrophilia and I don't want to read disgusting pedo shit either.
+--- 21958842
+>>21958834
+It isn’t really about erotica anyway. It’s just about an alcoholic slut.
+--- 21958851
+>>21958796 (OP)
+She's not smart enough, it means something else
+--- 21958859
+>>21958851
+>Robbing rich old men of $300 per short session with their consent
+>Not smart
+Lol.
+--- 21958866
+>>21958842
+>It isn’t really about erotica anyway
+That seems to be the case for many of the books on the chart. I don't understand why it was made. It seems like a clusterfuck.
+--- 21958874
+>>21958796 (OP)
+I'm in love
+--- 21958890
+>>21958796 (OP)
+Is this enbie trying to cancel a fucking prostitute? lmao
+--- 21958896
+>>21958859
+Licking blokes' bumholes isn't really robbery
+--- 21958941
+>>21958896
+>Licking blokes' bumholes isn't really robbery
+Most of the time the guys pay to lick her bumhole instead.
+--- 21958967
+>>21958796 (OP)
+>What’s some good erotica?
+Depends on what your preferences and squicks are.
+--- 21959033
+>>21958851
+>She's not smart enough
+She’s a Ukrainian nazi. That’s not a smart thing to be.
+--- 21959038
+remembering the 'bon appetit' tattoo on a local escort's ass makes me horny
+--- 21959042
+>>21959038
+It's sad how many men actually fantasize about romancing whores. I always thought that was a female fantasy, e.g. Pretty Woman, until I read more erotica by/for men.
+--- 21959076
+>>21958796 (OP)
+Erotica is either mean spirited and twisted torture porn for perverted sadist or is silly furry deviant art tier porn for sexually retarded hicks.
+--- 21959083
+>>21959042
+It’s essentially the fantasy of taming a wild animal, like you’re such a man that some insatiable slut becomes infatuated with you.
+--- 21959088
+>>21958859
+>robbing
+Yeah, like how you “robbed” Best Buy after you gave them $300 for a tv
+--- 21959091
+>>21958941
+not anymore, boomer
+--- 21959103
+Anyone read Esparbec? Thought about reading his work to work on my French but I don't know much about him.
+--- 21959121
+>>21958887
+hawt but NSFW
+--- 21959127
+>>21958796 (OP)
+Not de Sade.
+--- 21959140
+>>21959076
+>Erotica is either mean spirited and twisted torture porn for perverted sadist or is silly furry deviant art tier porn for sexually retarded hicks.
+Uhm, you really don't read a lot of erotica if you think that. Erotica sites are full of (more or less) wholesome romance with explicit sex and other things. A whole subgenre is basically all about men who have been cheated on finding better (usually younger) women who actually love them.
+--- 21959402
+>>21959042
+I'm not one of them
+--- 21959646
+>>21959402
+Yeah, neither am I. I've read stories that technically fall into this category but that aspect of them always bothered me.
+--- 21959661
+We need an erotica chart that organizes recs by their associated kinks.
+--- 21959673
+>>21958796 (OP)
+Published or asstr?
+--- 21959740
+>>21958796 (OP)
+>this tattoo represents a good day before we eventually lost the war
+--- 21959759
+>>21959661
+That would require someone actually making recommendations and other people reading them. 
+
+>>21959673
+If it's worth reading, I don't care (as long as I can pirate it).
+--- 21959797
+>>21959127
+filtered
+--- 21959802
+>>21958887
+Very suspicious physiognomy
+--- 21959827
+>>21959797
+where did you get this picture of me
+--- 21959845
+>>21959827
+Your mom hands them out to all her paramours
+--- 21959855
+>>21959845
+wtf, I told her not to do that
+--- 21959883
+>>21959103
+any site where I can find it? I speak French but don't want to go out and buy erotica
+--- 21959906
+>>21959883
+I was able to find a few on the Internet Archive.
+--- 21959989
+>>21958796 (OP)
+>>>/g/aicg
+--- 21960034
+>>21959140
+>all about men who have been cheated on finding better (usually younger) women who actually love them.
+how often is it her daughter?
+--- 21960043
+>>21958796 (OP)
+Under the roofs of Paris
+--- 21960079
+>>21960034
+I haven't done a statistical analysis but it's not completely unheard of in the incest category, "loving wives" stories (to use literotica's term) usually are too normalfaggy for incest, though.
+--- 21960131
+>>21958859
+You don't need a high IQ to do that
+--- 21960147
+>>21959033
+>slav
+>nazi
+pick one
+--- 21960159
+>>21960147
+Can you please stop being a clown and talk about erotica instead?
+--- 21960203
+>>21960147
+>Stepan Bandera doesn't exist 
+Shut up, Biden voter
+--- 21960211
+>>21960159
+Fu you damn coomer, read pic related
+--- 21960226
+>>21960211
+>As the daughter of a drug dealer, Wavy knows not to trust people, not even her own parents. It's safer to keep her mouth shut and stay out of sight. Struggling to raise her little brother, Donal, eight-year-old Wavy is the only responsible adult around. Obsessed with the constellations, she finds peace in the starry night sky above the fields behind her house, until one night her star gazing causes an accident. After witnessing his motorcycle wreck, she forms an unusual friendship with one of her father's thugs, Kellen, a tattooed ex-con with a heart of gold.
+lol, no, I don't read women's erotica.
+--- 21960250
+>>21960226
+That's an impressively cliche and embarrassing summary.
+--- 21960256
+>>21960226
+I hate women authors and I hate erotica, but objectively womens erotica is miles above mens erotica.
+--- 21960286
+>>21960256
+Name 10 men's erotica writers/stories that you think are representative.
+--- 21960301
+>>21960286
+I have only encountered mens erotica as a component in other non erotica fiction. All of it was garbage.
+--- 21960326
+>>21960301
+As expected of someone who unironically uses "objectively" when talking about his opinion of erotica.
+--- 21960329
+>>21960301
+As expected you know nothing.
+--- 21960342
+>>21960226
+>As a bored young man in rural France, X spends most of his time masturbating. It's easier to jerk it to bugs eating each other or whatever than have a real human relationship. Till one day, X strikes up an erotic friendship with his cousin Simone. They find piece shoving things up her cunt and getting a bunch of village kids drunk and molesting them, until one day their erotic escapades cause a car crash. Realizing they've never been this horny in their life, X and Simone decide to murder the village retard and take turns fucking her corpse, then set out on a wacky and hilarious adventure across France and into darkest Africa
+What the fuck is wrong with men?
+--- 21960356
+>>21960342
+That was obviously written by a faggot.
+--- 21960600
+>>21960356
+>He doesn't get the reference
+Pleb
+--- 21961229
+>>21958796 (OP)
+american psycho i guess. funny book but you probably shouldn't read it for the erotic sections. just read dostoevsky or sylvia plath.
+--- 21961258
+>>21958851
+Probably saw it in a picture and thought it looked cute.
+--- 21961700
+>>21958834
+>disgusting p*do shit
+oh I didn't know that kind of content was on the wiki; truly disgusting, would you mind pointing out which books exactly from the recommendations fall under this categoiry?
+--- 21961915
+>>21958796 (OP)
+I decided to scout that agency and every single whore seemed rancid, all but one. Her name is Isla Fae: https://scarletblue.com.au/escort/isla-fae
+I'm going to Australia and save her. Wish me luck, bros

lit/21958809.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,211 @@
+-----
+--- 21958809
+this is for all those anons who want to debate, conversate or in general want to talk about logic, ethics, metaphysics, epistemology and the history of philosophy.
+everything is allowed.
+link this thread in every philosophy related threads in this board.
+make /lit/ great again
+--- 21958812
+>>>/his/
+--- 21958825
+>>21958809 (OP)
+What is a more accurate description of metaphysics? Clearly metaphysics doesn’t just ask what is real because then basically every branch of human knowledge would be classes under metaphysics.
+--- 21958831
+>>21958812
+I was the anon who was telling these fags to go back to /his/, but since /his/ is not a option for them, they can atleast talk in one place, rather than making new a thread
+--- 21958836
+>>21958825
+abstract theory with no basis in reality
+--- 21958838
+>>21958836
+Then math would get classed under metaphysics
+--- 21958849
+>>21958838
+I mean before you can apply math, you have to think about it in a abstract way
+--- 21958993
+what philosophy does he follow?
+--- 21959001
+>>21958836
+The reality founds it basis in those theorys.
+--- 21959030
+>>21958838
+Mathematics is metaphysics as it deals with the nature of being and describes it in relationship to other beings. This explains why you need mathematical conceptions before physics.
+--- 21959035
+>>21959030
+could physics exist without math?
+--- 21959041
+Schopenhauer and Nietzsche's belief in the base existence of the universe being will is pretty neat. An interesting metaphysics. Anyone encounter a fictional work where the worldbuilding is centered around this? Or perhaps an expository work dealing with different understandings of putting Will as the basic unit of the cosmos?
+--- 21959047
+>>21958993
+ultra greek bussysophy
+--- 21959141
+>>21958993
+hnnnnnggg!!!
+--- 21959182
+>>21959047
+I got to do PhD in that
+--- 21959213
+>>21959035
+I actually don't know. The reason physics use math is becuase math describes being in general, while physics describe particular beings with certain behavior that can be modeled using mathematics. Maybe you could describe being in some other way that's not about quantified numbers.
+--- 21959255
+>>21959213
+da sign
+--- 21959356
+>>21958809 (OP)
+Aristotle answers all these questions quite well!
+--- 21959369
+>>21959356
+oh, did he? I must've been asleep when he did that
+--- 21959398
+>>21959041
+Check out Personal Power by Atkinson. It’s mostly self-help but one of the core ideas is that everything, even electrons, are fueled by desire, and this is what causes the attraction and repulsion of atomic forces. Recently these ideas have been lingering in my mind a lot. There is something magical about a strong will backed by passionate desire. If everything is will then ideas like the law of attraction aren’t that crazy. The only thing limiting you is the will of others, but most people are weak-willed and in general the universe is very conducive to personal success if you focus your will on something. 
+>This world is the will to power—and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power—and nothing besides!
+--- 21959470
+>>21959213
+It doesn’t describe being in general, it describes quantity. Being is pure quality.
+--- 21959489
+>>21959356
+not all of them, but his metaphysics and epistemology are foundational to a rational person, minus his teleology.
+--- 21959498
+>>21959398
+this whole "will to this, will to that" shit is so fucking stupid, humans are lead by survival instinct
+--- 21959509
+>>21958809 (OP)
+You are absolutely retarded if you think all those topics and all the books spanning philosophy should be or even can be contained in a single thread.
+--- 21959522
+>>21959509
+I might be, but I'm not a fucking loser who not going to try and tell other people it's impossible
+--- 21959550
+>>21959470
+Quality? You mean the SI-units?
+--- 21959630
+>>21959550
+>SI-units
+Your definition of quality is a reference object or phenomenon for which a bunch of people decided to assign itself, multiples and fractions of it to certain measurable properties of other objects or are you just a fucking nigger
+--- 21959651
+>>21959035
+Depends what you mean by physics. It comes from phusis which simply meant "the nature of a thing." The Greeks would say "the phusis of the human body" or "the phusis of an atom" but they would also say it for mundane things. It gradually came to mean the nature of things in general, "nature" in general. 
+
+So it has no intrinsic connection with modern mechanics. If you want to know how the assumption that naturalism = physics = mathematical mechanics came about, read Burtt, Metaphysical Foundations of Modern Science and Husserl, Origins of Geometry and Crisis of the European Sciences. Basically: geometrizing nature "just works," because it lets us take idealized abstractions that are extremely close to the real phenomena and model them predictively "as if" they were really just geometrical abstractions. Early on, like with Copernicus, Kepler, and Galileo, there were a lot of Neoplatonic & Neopythagorean elements underlying these assumptions. Kepler thought he was discovering Platonic solids in the orbits of the planets and so on. But as enthusiasm for these sorts of discoveries subsided, science became more and more concerned with practical applications of mechanics, for example in measuring the behavior and composition of fluids and gases (Boyle, Hooke), or in treating the human body as a purely physical mechanism in order to do physiology without philosophical or religious assumptions (Boerhaave, von Haller). Scientists using mechanics or mechanistic assumptions at this point relied on the geometrical and algebraic methods of Galileo, Viete, etc., but they were open-ended and pragmatic when it came to metaphysical commitments, speculating about different variants of classical atomism, Cartesian corpuscularism, the reality of a void or aether, etc. 
+
+The real synthesis came when Newton and Leibniz enhanced the algebraic-geometrical method with calculus, which (basically) enables the mathematical mechanist to model any physical phenomenon "as if" geometrical by providing a tool for reducing all irrational ratios using limits and infinitesimals. Now all circles and curves could be squared, and all natural phenomena that could be modelled by geometry (like the motions of the heavens) could be modelled with extremely high degrees of precision and predictive power. This was wedded to the early sceptical/non-committal metaphysical stance by saying that good mechanics only postulates the minimum of "forces" and "bodies" necessary to replicate the movements of the system. Thus all of nature herself seems to reduce to "forces" and "bodies" - and even the relatively minimal metaphysical materialisms of people like Descartes (res extensa + voidless corpuscularism with an aether of subtle particles) and Gassendi (syncretic classical atomism) begin to seem unnecessarily complex. Why do all that metaphysical speculation if you can just reduce everything to a minimum of postulated forces, points, lines, and curves?
+--- 21959652
+>>21958809 (OP)
+Epistemology > Logic > Aesthetics > Ethics > Metaphysics > Politics
+Just saying. You may disagree, you'd just be wrong.
+--- 21959660
+>>21959651
+>continued
+Not only that, but this minimum of postulates enabled real predictions. It was obviously "correct" in the sense that it accurately modelled reality and thus corresponded to or was adequate to its real arrangement, in at least some way. (Whether reality is "really" composed of "forces and points in spacetime" or whether our forces-and-points-in-spacetime model is merely "isomorphic" with reality is a question that opens a whole new can of worms and practically inaugurates modern philosophy of science.) The prediction of additional planets in the solar system makes this obvious. Physics thus becomes even more synonymous with mechanics than it was in the 17th century, when at least there was still room for speculation about the fundamental nature of the forces and "atoms." Now it starts to FEEL more natural to identify the mathematical and geometrical abstractions with reality itself. 
+
+In the 19th century, algebraic geometry is even further algebraized when it becomes purely abstract, that is, when people like Riemann, Gauss, and Lobachevsky start to realize that Geometry, which has always been based on Euclidean geometry, the a priori axioms of which have always been regarded as somewhat logically problematic (are they just assumed? are they irrefutable? do they need / are they capable of logical foundations? etc.), still "works" logically, i.e., its symbolic algebra still chugs along just fine, if you remove a postulate of Euclid's required to make Euclidean geometry correspond to INTUITIVE geometry, i.e., to geometry as schoolchildren learn it and people ordinary think of it. Algebraic geometry still works, still provides mathematically rigorous results, if you operate purely at the level of the algebra and neglect and even discard or contradict, what the human eye finds intuitively geometrically true. This takes about a century to be fully integrated into mathematics and physics, but suffice to say, it leads to the radical mathematical abstraction of physics that we finally see in Einstein's synthesis of discoveries of Maxwell, Lorentz, etc., and thus "modern physics."
+--- 21959663
+>>21959660
+>continued
+The modern physical synthesis is very comparable to the Newtonian synthesis, which, remember, was not so much philosophical as "it just works"-ical, and even contributed to pushing philosophical considerations to the side. Despite being based essentially on a simple modelling-and-predicting method that, while extremely powerful given some assumptions (nature corresponds to geometrical forces-and-points-in-spacetime abstraction to at least a damn good degree, and nature acts in a lawlike determinate manner and doesn't change the constants or composition of its forces or features), Newtonian classical mechanics didn't necessarily care about philosophical claims at all, it didn't even really care about the philosophical status or nature of the entities (forces, points, space, time) or axioms (nature stays the same and is determinate) it requires to function. All its power is method power, prediction power, it lets us take "things" (understood broadly) apart and predict their movements, enabling us to make steam engines that don't explode and to create models and devices for operating on human bodies (so long as these continue to obey the "nature follows her own rules / stays the same" rule), etc. Einstein's synthesis was just another, even more powerful explosion in this process that goes back to the superior predictive power of a Copernican heliocentric model, of Kepler's abstractions in astronomy, of Galileo's, Viete's, and Descartes' abstractions in terrestrial mechanics, of applications of all of these in things like material science, fluid dynamics, physiology, etc. 
+
+Einstein simply enabled people to extend the geometrization of nature to scales and phenomena that defy intuitive geometrization, i.e., geometrization corresponding to Euclidean postulates which correspond to the ordinary geometry recognized by the human mental eye, of lines, curves, and solids lying on three-dimensional planes and intuitively derivable one from the other (point -> line -> plane).
+--- 21959666
+>>21959663
+>continued
+Because this mechanical and geometrical abstraction is so unbelievably powerful at what it does, i.e., at dissecting reality by treating it "as if" it is geometrical forces-and-points-in-spacetime, especially now that "geometry" means highly abstract purely algebraic geometry, and the equations necessarily go beyond any human ability to visualize them or their outcomes and yet still "work" with all the satisfying mathematical precision of the calculus, the relationship of naturalism = physics = mathematical mechanics is now the default in just about everybody's minds. The history of science itself is now the history of waiting for modern physics to show up, and then it's the history of the reduction of everything to physics. First chemistry, which briefly put up a fight by asserting itself as a distinct science with qualitatively irreducible phenomena, became "applied physics." Then biology, which seemed more likely to involve irreducible phenomena (life-forces or souls, manifestly different from physical forces because capable of causing and then upholding the organization of living beings, which are seemingly infinitely more complex than any non-living structure), gradually fell prey to physical reductionists when Darwin made it seem possible to derive the complexity of living beings via the equation unexplained mechanism of gradual phenotypical change + winnowing effect of natural selection + extremely long timeframes = previously inexplicable complexity of living beings. Then the modern biological synthesis occurred which supplied the "unexplained mechanism" (genetic machinery), reducing biology to chemistry and biomechanics, which are of course just "applied physics." Within modern physics itself, anything superfluous or non-mathematical (space-filling models of the atom, "element" theories that don't ultimately resolve into a parsimonious set of forces and mathematically abstract entities) has been reduced and expelled. 
+
+So now the models that were once used relatively self-conscious for predicting matter-and-forces, without venturing a guess as to what the predictable matter or forces were or whether they were the only things in nature, have become the default feeling for most modern people of "what is really, actually out there": forces and points + a space-time (void) container + extremely long time frames. All of this because of the extreme modelling and predictive power of geometrization, especially once abstracted to non-intuitive geometrization. 
+
+It's only possible to see where this modern physical synthesis breaks down when you get to the highest echelons of mathematical physics, where people are postulating "fundamental theories" like string theory to give what they hope will be a final explanation of the whole universe as an unintuitive non-Euclidean algebraic-geometrical mathematical machine composed of forces and entities (strings, foam, whatever).
+--- 21959670
+>>21959630
+I don't even get what your point is. The SI-units are the qualities whoose quantities are measured in physics.
+--- 21959674
+>>21959666
+>continued, end
+But the mathematical talent to operate at this level is invariably joined to personal idiosyncrasy, so it's mostly a bunch of tinkerers who can't talk to one another, and definitely cannot examine their prejudices or even imagine what it would mean to deconstruct their whole worldview and life's work and try to see nature as anything other than this mathematical construct whose final entities just need to be pinned down with the most elegant model. A few of them try to do silly things like inject bullshit like "AI will allow us to finally prove X" into the discussion, and occasionally they play with a few philosophical ideas like giving "information" ontological status in a vague way, but basically it's a stagnant and incestuous dead end, groaning under the weight of four centuries of mathematical turbo-autism. It would be easier to convince the Ayatollah to convert to Quakerism than to convince one of these guys that maybe the answer is not to be found in yet more tinkering with yet another equation, or that maybe we should take another look at nature and see if maybe she is composed of more "forces" than just the minimum necessary for representing her as the ultimate physics sim video game for modelling billiard ball collisions around Jupiter. 
+
+Clearly "math" is real and clearly one of the greatest scientific discoveries in need of explanation is the sheer mathematical and geometrical consequentiality of natural phenomena. It must mean something that it basically does seem to be true that "God continuously geometrizes," to use Plato's expression. But beyond that, just as in Newton's own day (when people were a little more self-conscious of this fact), ultimately all we have are very nice models that make predictions we can't explain based on entities (forces, points, strings, spacetime) whose nature is impenetrable to us. 
+
+There are some people who think a higher mathematics is possible and that what abstract mathematics and theoretical physics have done is point the way to a higher level of consciousness, but that we haven't yet attained to it. For example the geometer Coxeter claimed to have mystical intuitions of higher, presently unintuitive dimensions of geometry, and Charles Hinton's speculations on higher geometrical dimensions inspired a lot of Theosophists who took his writings literally, as recipes for the cultivation of faculties for actually seeing in higher dimensions. This is essentially modern Pythagoreanism, another redux of what inspired Copernicus and Kepler. But obviously it's not systematic, and trying to talk to the aforementioned physicists with their stagnant arguments about whether Twelver Stringism or Neo-Loopism holds the answers.
+--- 21959681
+>>21959651
+>>21959660
+>>21959663
+>>21959666
+>>21959674
+>Spends time writing all this garbage.
+--- 21959807
+>>21959670
+One quantity is length which is one dimensional extension of an object. SI unit for length is the meter which is defined as follows by wikipedia
+>The metre (or meter in American spelling; symbol: m) is the base unit of length in the International System of Units (SI).
+
+>The metre was originally defined in 1793 as one ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the North Pole along a great circle, so the Earth's circumference is approximately 40000 km. In 1799, the metre was redefined in terms of a prototype metre bar. The actual bar used was changed in 1889. In 1960, the metre was redefined in terms of a certain number of wavelengths of a certain emission line of krypton-86.
+
+>The current definition was adopted in 1983 and modified slightly in 2002 to clarify that the metre is a measure of proper length. From 1983 until 2019, the metre was formally defined as the length of the path travelled by light in a vacuum in 1/299792458 of a second. After the 2019 redefinition of the SI base units, this definition was rephrased to include the definition of a second in terms of the caesium frequency
+
+And this is what you call quality
+--- 21959818
+>>21959807
+the multiples of a meter are
+>km, Mm, Gm, ...
+its fractions are
+>mm, micrometer, nm, ...
+--- 21959901
+>>21959807
+What are we disagreeing about?
+--- 21959917
+>>21959901
+I already said that you're a nigger and you didn't object. So we are good
+--- 21959928
+>>21958809 (OP)
+i dont understand moral realism. it seems that since there is no consensus of what moral means, you cant derive an ought from an is just by saying you know what my moral intuitions are
+--- 21959998
+>>21959917
+I'm black
+--- 21960359
+>>21959550
+SI-units don't exhaust the possible qualitative descriptions of entities, but sure, they are helpful for certain types of analysis. Clearly, math does not encompass being nor really capture its meaning.
+--- 21960560
+>>21958825
+>Clearly metaphysics doesn’t just ask what is real because then basically every branch of human knowledge would be classes under metaphysics.
+
+Yes
+>The entire field of philosophy therefore really forms a single science; but it may also be viewed as a total, composed of several particular sciences. -Hegel, Shorter Logic
+--- 21960649
+>>21958809 (OP)
+>how do we know?
+That's gnoseology.
+--- 21960663
+>>21958809 (OP)
+I philosophy
+--- 21960823
+>>21959652
+aesthetics is a little retarded, even scopy could hardly make it interesting
+--- 21960894
+>>21960823
+can you explain aesthetics to me in simple words
+--- 21960899
+>>21960663
+??
+--- 21960911
+>>21958809 (OP)
+why do we even need philosophy at all? why can't we just go on living, hunting and gathering
+--- 21960935
+Why exactly does Aristotle's prime mover have intellect? I'm reading the metaphysics and this is confusing me to no end.
+--- 21960943
+>>21958825
+Not a historian but I think Aristotle might accept the claim that every branch of human knowledge is classed under metaphysics...
+
+In any case, the standard explanation is this: ontology asks what is fundamentally real, and metaphysics asks about the fundamental /nature/ and /structure/ of reality. The two fields overlap tremendously in practice though. So, in the metaphysics of causation, you'd ask questions like: do causal relations fundamentally exist? What is the nature of causal relations? How do they relate to the fundamental /modal/ structure of reality (i.e. the fundamental aspects of the world that dictate what's possible and what's necessary.) Etc
+
+>>21959035
+Sort of an ill-formed question.
+
+If you mean "could a world have a physics without it also having a mathematical structure?" the answer seems p clearly to be no. For there to be a physics, there would have to be distinct /things/, whereupon there would be a notion of counting, whereupon much (if not all) of mathematical structure would apply. ("God gave us the integers..." and all that.)
+
+If you mean "could there be a /science/ of physics without a /science/ of mathematics," I think that's probably up for debate. Famously, Hartry Field argued that one can reformulate large swathes of physics in a language that makes no reference to numbers. (You would still need to make use of tremendous amounts of /logical/ structure---whether or not that counts as "mathematical" structure is up to taste, I suppose.)
+
+>>21959509
+I agree but I notice that my purely philosophy threads have been getting deleted by mods recently. So I assume this is OP trying to find a middle path.
+
+>>21959928
+Not really my area, but I think one popular view here is that the objective moral truths consist in the consensus that would result /after reaching reflective equilibrium./ I.E. a system of moral claims that, on balance, best respect our moral intuitions (weighed by such things as: prevalence, strength, fundamentality, universality, etc attaching to moral intuitions.) Here I'm basically just aping what I remember from Scanlon's "Being Realistic About Reasons"
+--- 21961033
+>>21960899
+I heart philosophy

lit/21958883.txt

@@ -0,0 +1,25 @@
+-----
+--- 21958883
+I think most of the world's problems have to do with a lack of action rather than a lack of understanding. 
+
+Many people have a deep enough understanding of the world to know what its problems are, it's just that they don't do anything about it because of fear and/or laziness. Including myself.
+
+Thoughts?
+--- 21958893
+Both of those can possibly be problems t. me, a boring guy
+--- 21958959
+on the one hand, the smartest people recognise their role in it all, ie; they write the books and come up with the solutions but won't do any of the dirty work because other people are better at that. on the other, changing the world is very very hard and people who understand the problems of the world realise this, and they believe the best way to do this (this reiterates the first point) is to write books, come up with ideas, etc to spread solutions. on the third hand, i don't think a lot of thinkers are concerned with 'fixing' the world, it's just going to do its thing.
+--- 21959276
+>>21958883 (OP)
+>I think most of the world's problems have to do with a lack of action rather than a lack of understanding.
+The entirety of the 20th century disagrees with you.
+--- 21959304
+I think tech is the biggest problem. In a a world where everything is done from behind a computer screen, where academic and professional achievement is the be all end all but always behind a computer screen, where socializing, dating, even minor daily errands and living is happening from behind a computer screen, it's sort of ridiculous to talk about preferring action.
+--- 21960368
+Shieeet nigga you right on no cap
+--- 21960755
+>>21958883 (OP)
+Wrong. Read the Tao. All of the worlds problems are precisely the result of unnecessary action. You act because you think you should. You act on your fears, desires, emotions, all things which are irrational. It’s so obvious yet we still think the solution is found in more action.
+--- 21960928
+>>21958883 (OP)
+Off-topic, but can anyone tell me what that mudra means?