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Stanford NLP 82

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nkfp3

g2nibtk

I'm getting pretty sick of writing papers for free. For my PhD and postdoc I've worked on other people's big projects. Every time they strategically keep me in the lab for the entire duration of the fellowship with no time to write, knowing full well that I have to write papers to get a job, and that I'll do it for free when the fellowship is over just to try to keep up.

I could probably write more if not reviewing 3+ papers per each published. I had no idea it was that many until I looked up my reviewer stats.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2ng4jr

g2nkfp3

One way I'd think about it is if you're not planning to submit your own papers to journals in the future, then you don't need to review for them. If you do, and aren't expecting to pay others to review your paper for you, then you're kind of being a hypocrite.

I'm getting pretty sick of writing papers for free. For my PhD and postdoc I've worked on other people's big projects. Every time they strategically keep me in the lab for the entire duration of the fellowship with no time to write, knowing full well that I have to write papers to get a job, and that I'll do it for free when the fellowship is over just to try to keep up.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2o4i54

g2nwo9k

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

TBH, I wish for profit publishing houses would get lost. Nature's making a move to own academic publishing at all levels of journal quality and it's just not cool. You get better service from most societies too. Now I just need to convince myself not to send the good work to the Nature empire, and convince the funders that society journals should be perceived as prestigious as Nature's topical collection.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nibtk

g2o4i54

I could probably write more if not reviewing 3+ papers per each published. I had no idea it was that many until I looked up my reviewer stats.

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2o4i54

g2nmtxj

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

I think it's fine to say no sometimes. But if you say no all the time, you better not be submitting any work to peer reviewed journals or else you're just a dick. Also, if we do ask for compensation you know they're just going to up the publication fees. And we don't want the quality of the reviews to decline because people are trying to make a buck. I think we have a shitty system but I'm not sure how to improve it.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2o4i54

g2ng4jr

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

One way I'd think about it is if you're not planning to submit your own papers to journals in the future, then you don't need to review for them. If you do, and aren't expecting to pay others to review your paper for you, then you're kind of being a hypocrite.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2o4i54

g2nxi3k

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

Aren’t you already paid for ‘service’ - employment contracts might mention say 10% of your time to be dedicated to service. You don’t owe more than that. Just make a weekly time budget, and anything that requires more than that is a red line.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2o4i54

g2nyqoh

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

I'm with you OP. I'm particularly annoyed at one journal that asked me to review about a week before the pandemic 'hit' and then sent annoying e-mail reminders every 2 weeks until I sent the review (despite me e-mailing them back the first time saying I couldn't review while providing full time childcare and inviting them to find an alternative reviewer if they couldn't wait). I think I'm at the point where I'm going to do my own boycott of journal reviewing. (Up to now I've reviewed around 3 times as many papers as I've published and the majority of journals in my subject have 1, or 2, reviewers so I'm "up".) I'll make exceptions for massive breakthroughs or work of students/postdocs who really need it.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nooe6

g2o4i54

You should feel free to turn down a request to review if you aren’t interested in the topic. That’s how I decide what to review - whether or not I actually want to read the paper. It won’t hurt your tenure case if you occasionally say no.

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2np94x

g2o4i54

Exactly, I stopped helping those greedy publishers review papers for a while. Unless the paper title and abstract really interests me, I don't review.

This “publication-review-journals” is one of the most fucked up systems there is. We work like crazy to have publications ready (lab/field/writting) for ZERO money, plus many times we loose even our rights to our own papers. It is absolutely insane and abusive. People assuming OP is being malicious for pointing that out is insane. This kind of thinking will keep feeding this machine. Us pals should be more united and have each others backs like in other fields. On top of that, salaries received for universities/industry employment should not be factored in. You are producing new information and using that for handing out tenures and such is borderline blackmail, seeing that not everyone will be able to pay fees for publishing in high-impact journals, have time to review and still pay the bills. We should be paid for our services, especially if it’s in this weird cycle. Sadly, it does not look like we will find a solution soon enough. We are kind of trapped in this toxic situation having to overwork for free and having to do it with a smile on our faces. Edit: i do not mean to point fingers, just trying to speak my mind. This topic is such a huge cancer in academia it makes me mad.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nwo9k

g2nmtxj

TBH, I wish for profit publishing houses would get lost. Nature's making a move to own academic publishing at all levels of journal quality and it's just not cool. You get better service from most societies too. Now I just need to convince myself not to send the good work to the Nature empire, and convince the funders that society journals should be perceived as prestigious as Nature's topical collection.

I think it's fine to say no sometimes. But if you say no all the time, you better not be submitting any work to peer reviewed journals or else you're just a dick. Also, if we do ask for compensation you know they're just going to up the publication fees. And we don't want the quality of the reviews to decline because people are trying to make a buck. I think we have a shitty system but I'm not sure how to improve it.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nwo9k

g2ng4jr

TBH, I wish for profit publishing houses would get lost. Nature's making a move to own academic publishing at all levels of journal quality and it's just not cool. You get better service from most societies too. Now I just need to convince myself not to send the good work to the Nature empire, and convince the funders that society journals should be perceived as prestigious as Nature's topical collection.

One way I'd think about it is if you're not planning to submit your own papers to journals in the future, then you don't need to review for them. If you do, and aren't expecting to pay others to review your paper for you, then you're kind of being a hypocrite.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nwo9k

g2nooe6

TBH, I wish for profit publishing houses would get lost. Nature's making a move to own academic publishing at all levels of journal quality and it's just not cool. You get better service from most societies too. Now I just need to convince myself not to send the good work to the Nature empire, and convince the funders that society journals should be perceived as prestigious as Nature's topical collection.

You should feel free to turn down a request to review if you aren’t interested in the topic. That’s how I decide what to review - whether or not I actually want to read the paper. It won’t hurt your tenure case if you occasionally say no.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nwo9k

g2np94x

TBH, I wish for profit publishing houses would get lost. Nature's making a move to own academic publishing at all levels of journal quality and it's just not cool. You get better service from most societies too. Now I just need to convince myself not to send the good work to the Nature empire, and convince the funders that society journals should be perceived as prestigious as Nature's topical collection.

Exactly, I stopped helping those greedy publishers review papers for a while. Unless the paper title and abstract really interests me, I don't review.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2ng4jr

g2nibtk

One way I'd think about it is if you're not planning to submit your own papers to journals in the future, then you don't need to review for them. If you do, and aren't expecting to pay others to review your paper for you, then you're kind of being a hypocrite.

I could probably write more if not reviewing 3+ papers per each published. I had no idea it was that many until I looked up my reviewer stats.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2ng4jr

g2nmtxj

One way I'd think about it is if you're not planning to submit your own papers to journals in the future, then you don't need to review for them. If you do, and aren't expecting to pay others to review your paper for you, then you're kind of being a hypocrite.

I think it's fine to say no sometimes. But if you say no all the time, you better not be submitting any work to peer reviewed journals or else you're just a dick. Also, if we do ask for compensation you know they're just going to up the publication fees. And we don't want the quality of the reviews to decline because people are trying to make a buck. I think we have a shitty system but I'm not sure how to improve it.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nooe6

g2nxi3k

You should feel free to turn down a request to review if you aren’t interested in the topic. That’s how I decide what to review - whether or not I actually want to read the paper. It won’t hurt your tenure case if you occasionally say no.

Aren’t you already paid for ‘service’ - employment contracts might mention say 10% of your time to be dedicated to service. You don’t owe more than that. Just make a weekly time budget, and anything that requires more than that is a red line.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2np94x

g2nxi3k

Exactly, I stopped helping those greedy publishers review papers for a while. Unless the paper title and abstract really interests me, I don't review.

Aren’t you already paid for ‘service’ - employment contracts might mention say 10% of your time to be dedicated to service. You don’t owe more than that. Just make a weekly time budget, and anything that requires more than that is a red line.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nyqoh

g2oc811

I'm with you OP. I'm particularly annoyed at one journal that asked me to review about a week before the pandemic 'hit' and then sent annoying e-mail reminders every 2 weeks until I sent the review (despite me e-mailing them back the first time saying I couldn't review while providing full time childcare and inviting them to find an alternative reviewer if they couldn't wait). I think I'm at the point where I'm going to do my own boycott of journal reviewing. (Up to now I've reviewed around 3 times as many papers as I've published and the majority of journals in my subject have 1, or 2, reviewers so I'm "up".) I'll make exceptions for massive breakthroughs or work of students/postdocs who really need it.

I just turned down a review invitation for an Elsevier journal on account of it being an Elsevier journal.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2oc811

g2nooe6

I just turned down a review invitation for an Elsevier journal on account of it being an Elsevier journal.

You should feel free to turn down a request to review if you aren’t interested in the topic. That’s how I decide what to review - whether or not I actually want to read the paper. It won’t hurt your tenure case if you occasionally say no.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2oc811

g2np94x

I just turned down a review invitation for an Elsevier journal on account of it being an Elsevier journal.

Exactly, I stopped helping those greedy publishers review papers for a while. Unless the paper title and abstract really interests me, I don't review.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nyqoh

g2nooe6

I'm with you OP. I'm particularly annoyed at one journal that asked me to review about a week before the pandemic 'hit' and then sent annoying e-mail reminders every 2 weeks until I sent the review (despite me e-mailing them back the first time saying I couldn't review while providing full time childcare and inviting them to find an alternative reviewer if they couldn't wait). I think I'm at the point where I'm going to do my own boycott of journal reviewing. (Up to now I've reviewed around 3 times as many papers as I've published and the majority of journals in my subject have 1, or 2, reviewers so I'm "up".) I'll make exceptions for massive breakthroughs or work of students/postdocs who really need it.

You should feel free to turn down a request to review if you aren’t interested in the topic. That’s how I decide what to review - whether or not I actually want to read the paper. It won’t hurt your tenure case if you occasionally say no.

ifg59u

askacademia_train

How about we stop working for free? Just this month I was invited to review five new submissions from three different journals. I understand that we have an important role in improving the quality of science being published (specially during COVID times), but isn’t it unfair that we do all the work and these companies get all the money? Honestly, I feel like it’s passed time we start refusing to review articles without minimum compensation from these for-profit journals. ​ Field of research: Neuroscience/Biophysics Title: Ph.D. Country: USA

g2nyqoh

g2np94x

I'm with you OP. I'm particularly annoyed at one journal that asked me to review about a week before the pandemic 'hit' and then sent annoying e-mail reminders every 2 weeks until I sent the review (despite me e-mailing them back the first time saying I couldn't review while providing full time childcare and inviting them to find an alternative reviewer if they couldn't wait). I think I'm at the point where I'm going to do my own boycott of journal reviewing. (Up to now I've reviewed around 3 times as many papers as I've published and the majority of journals in my subject have 1, or 2, reviewers so I'm "up".) I'll make exceptions for massive breakthroughs or work of students/postdocs who really need it.

Exactly, I stopped helping those greedy publishers review papers for a while. Unless the paper title and abstract really interests me, I don't review.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiqaavx

fiq7jcg

This will sound harsh and unpopular, but grow some backbone and stand for your way of life. If this is frowned upon by a place you spend over 8 hours each weekday, you're in the wrong spot and you're supporting a system that undermines something you value a lot. It's difficult to do this, given you might have to provide for a family and run the risk of losing job security, but if the alternative is to live a lie for a third of your life, the choice seems easy to me.

This is nuts >I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. This is nuts-er. Why would "being in an open relationship" sabotage your tenure bid? Is your spouse on the committee/the dean and they just don't know your relationship is "open" yet? Is it an ultrareligious school? Because those are the only 2 reasons I can think of? --- Also, the way to get out in front of blackmail - if you can - is to not be blackmailable. Which is tell the department in an open meeting that "someone is trying to harm me by threatening to reveal tis fact which I have absolutely no problems with".

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiq8c31

fiqaavx

Go to the police. Jesus.

This will sound harsh and unpopular, but grow some backbone and stand for your way of life. If this is frowned upon by a place you spend over 8 hours each weekday, you're in the wrong spot and you're supporting a system that undermines something you value a lot. It's difficult to do this, given you might have to provide for a family and run the risk of losing job security, but if the alternative is to live a lie for a third of your life, the choice seems easy to me.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiq83zz

fiqaavx

Is being in an open relationship against the terms of your contract? Regardless of whether it's right or wrong...if it's in your contract, it's in your contract. All-else considered, the school should protect you from this. You were literally doing your job. However, it sounds like this student comes from a fairly wealthy family...and money talks to universities as we've seen in the media recently. Just in case the school does not take your side...I'd lawyer-up immediately. Also might be time to throw your resume around to some colleagues at other institutions.

This will sound harsh and unpopular, but grow some backbone and stand for your way of life. If this is frowned upon by a place you spend over 8 hours each weekday, you're in the wrong spot and you're supporting a system that undermines something you value a lot. It's difficult to do this, given you might have to provide for a family and run the risk of losing job security, but if the alternative is to live a lie for a third of your life, the choice seems easy to me.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiqaznv

fiq8c31

I would go to a lawyer first. I'd ask the lawyer if I could file both criminal and civil charges and sue the student into next week. They'll probably say no which is disappointing because I'd want to nail that little shit to the wall. One thing you may find the lawyer actually doing for you is filing a restraining order against the student. I'd also be sure to ask the lawyer when to include the dean and the senior leadership at the school. Adding a threat and attempted blackmail to the disciplinary process might just get the kid expelled. Now I know there are some states where the LGBT status is a non-protected status which is what I'm assuming you're talking about, my brother's boyfriend was fired for being Gay at a school in New Hampshire. So yes there is a risk. If the student is willing to go to all of this trouble there is a real risk of violence, either by them or by someone they paid when things don't go their way. This is not something to take lightly. You need help.

Go to the police. Jesus.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiqaznv

fiq83zz

I would go to a lawyer first. I'd ask the lawyer if I could file both criminal and civil charges and sue the student into next week. They'll probably say no which is disappointing because I'd want to nail that little shit to the wall. One thing you may find the lawyer actually doing for you is filing a restraining order against the student. I'd also be sure to ask the lawyer when to include the dean and the senior leadership at the school. Adding a threat and attempted blackmail to the disciplinary process might just get the kid expelled. Now I know there are some states where the LGBT status is a non-protected status which is what I'm assuming you're talking about, my brother's boyfriend was fired for being Gay at a school in New Hampshire. So yes there is a risk. If the student is willing to go to all of this trouble there is a real risk of violence, either by them or by someone they paid when things don't go their way. This is not something to take lightly. You need help.

Is being in an open relationship against the terms of your contract? Regardless of whether it's right or wrong...if it's in your contract, it's in your contract. All-else considered, the school should protect you from this. You were literally doing your job. However, it sounds like this student comes from a fairly wealthy family...and money talks to universities as we've seen in the media recently. Just in case the school does not take your side...I'd lawyer-up immediately. Also might be time to throw your resume around to some colleagues at other institutions.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiqhk3y

fiq8c31

No advice beyond that given, but just want to express solidarity. Who are these supposed academics who don't understand that your university doesn't need to fire you - they just need to quietly deny you tenure for a plausible reason, which at your university may be the code of conduct. I don't think there's anything wrong with you for wanting to keep your job, even at the (incredible personal) cost of placating one shithead student who would probably have been acquitted by the system anyway even if he raped or killed someone. I hope you figure this out.

Go to the police. Jesus.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiqbfvu

fiqhk3y

This is horrible, I feel for you. One thing you need to consider is that you have no proof the student would stop blackmailing you if you stopped the proceedings. Actually they have proven that they're very vengeful and they're ready to cheat and break the law, so it's quite possible they would tell the department about your relationship even if you decided to bow to their demands. Anyway it would probably look suspicious to your department if you suddenly decided to change your mind about the student after you provided evidence of their plagiarism. Now what can the student do? If the student goes to the department with the evidence they got from the PI, they'll look exactly like what they are, a cheater who tried to blackmail a professor for doing something that's not against the law. If I were in your department, I'd be pretty disgusted at someone who would invade a professor's privacy like that. Defending the student would mean admitting that blackmailing staff is ok. This is not the image the University wants to have. You, on the other hand, did your job like you were supposed to. Now, one way or another, you're in an unfortunate situation where it's likely that your department will learn about your relationship. You need to mitigate damage. I don't know your department, and it's easy for me to talk as I'm not the one to suffer the consequences, but it seems that the best way to do this would not be to fall to blackmail. If you trust your colleagues to have a bit of decency, you'll have a better outcome telling the student to f... off and coming clear if you need to.

No advice beyond that given, but just want to express solidarity. Who are these supposed academics who don't understand that your university doesn't need to fire you - they just need to quietly deny you tenure for a plausible reason, which at your university may be the code of conduct. I don't think there's anything wrong with you for wanting to keep your job, even at the (incredible personal) cost of placating one shithead student who would probably have been acquitted by the system anyway even if he raped or killed someone. I hope you figure this out.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiqhk3y

fiq83zz

No advice beyond that given, but just want to express solidarity. Who are these supposed academics who don't understand that your university doesn't need to fire you - they just need to quietly deny you tenure for a plausible reason, which at your university may be the code of conduct. I don't think there's anything wrong with you for wanting to keep your job, even at the (incredible personal) cost of placating one shithead student who would probably have been acquitted by the system anyway even if he raped or killed someone. I hope you figure this out.

Is being in an open relationship against the terms of your contract? Regardless of whether it's right or wrong...if it's in your contract, it's in your contract. All-else considered, the school should protect you from this. You were literally doing your job. However, it sounds like this student comes from a fairly wealthy family...and money talks to universities as we've seen in the media recently. Just in case the school does not take your side...I'd lawyer-up immediately. Also might be time to throw your resume around to some colleagues at other institutions.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiq83zz

fiq8c31

Is being in an open relationship against the terms of your contract? Regardless of whether it's right or wrong...if it's in your contract, it's in your contract. All-else considered, the school should protect you from this. You were literally doing your job. However, it sounds like this student comes from a fairly wealthy family...and money talks to universities as we've seen in the media recently. Just in case the school does not take your side...I'd lawyer-up immediately. Also might be time to throw your resume around to some colleagues at other institutions.

Go to the police. Jesus.

f9a58a

askacademia_train

I flunked someone for plagiarism. I just discovered they hired a PI to investigate me. Does anyone have experience with this? I’m in a tenure track position in the social sciences at a school in the Midwest. Last semester, I flunked a student for plagiarizing part of a paper (it was a clear case of copy and paste from an obscure source). The student did not take it well. Things are winding their way through the administrative process. It has come to my attention that this disgruntled student has apparently hired a private investigator to follow me and look into my life. I feel extremely violated. However, it has unfortunately also come to my attention that this PI has learned that I am in an open relationship. I suspect this would not be well received by my department and would likely jeopardize my ability to get tenure. It has been strongly implied that details of my personal relationship will be leaked to the department unless I stop pursuing internal discipline against the student. However, it’s not clear to me that I could stop the proceedings even if I wanted to. What exactly am I supposed to do in this situation?

fiq83zz

fiqbfvu

Is being in an open relationship against the terms of your contract? Regardless of whether it's right or wrong...if it's in your contract, it's in your contract. All-else considered, the school should protect you from this. You were literally doing your job. However, it sounds like this student comes from a fairly wealthy family...and money talks to universities as we've seen in the media recently. Just in case the school does not take your side...I'd lawyer-up immediately. Also might be time to throw your resume around to some colleagues at other institutions.

This is horrible, I feel for you. One thing you need to consider is that you have no proof the student would stop blackmailing you if you stopped the proceedings. Actually they have proven that they're very vengeful and they're ready to cheat and break the law, so it's quite possible they would tell the department about your relationship even if you decided to bow to their demands. Anyway it would probably look suspicious to your department if you suddenly decided to change your mind about the student after you provided evidence of their plagiarism. Now what can the student do? If the student goes to the department with the evidence they got from the PI, they'll look exactly like what they are, a cheater who tried to blackmail a professor for doing something that's not against the law. If I were in your department, I'd be pretty disgusted at someone who would invade a professor's privacy like that. Defending the student would mean admitting that blackmailing staff is ok. This is not the image the University wants to have. You, on the other hand, did your job like you were supposed to. Now, one way or another, you're in an unfortunate situation where it's likely that your department will learn about your relationship. You need to mitigate damage. I don't know your department, and it's easy for me to talk as I'm not the one to suffer the consequences, but it seems that the best way to do this would not be to fall to blackmail. If you trust your colleagues to have a bit of decency, you'll have a better outcome telling the student to f... off and coming clear if you need to.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusooc4

fusory0

I have nothing other to say than: Yes, I know that feeling.

I never thought about it but now that you mentioned it... Yess!!! Its kind of like when you read a review paper and they cite many other original research papers, and you wanna get through all of them but you dont have the time to do so. When you do attempt to get through them, you find yourself going down a rabbit hole. One paper leads to 10 other papers and each of the 10 papers lead you to another 10 papers... IT NEVER ENDS!! Then the timer goes off, you gotta run back to the lab to change whatever solution you've got your tissue incubating in. And those papers that you've found will be left as tabs on your browser, never looked at again (but never closed too). Until one day, your computer freezes up and you gotta force shutdown your computer.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusooc4

fusrvi3

I have nothing other to say than: Yes, I know that feeling.

I had this feeling when I was in grad school. Now, it's more that I'll never have time in this life to create all the things I want to: books, games, etc., that will never see the light of day. OTOH, that means I'll never be bored. I'll never run out of things to learn, do, and try. I try to keep my focus on that side.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuspmt6

fusrvi3

definitely i get fascinated by so many things that i have no idea how to focus on just one thing and it's frustrating

I had this feeling when I was in grad school. Now, it's more that I'll never have time in this life to create all the things I want to: books, games, etc., that will never see the light of day. OTOH, that means I'll never be bored. I'll never run out of things to learn, do, and try. I try to keep my focus on that side.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusr6w0

fusrvi3

I'm more sad that I can't have chips every day without getting spherical.

I had this feeling when I was in grad school. Now, it's more that I'll never have time in this life to create all the things I want to: books, games, etc., that will never see the light of day. OTOH, that means I'll never be bored. I'll never run out of things to learn, do, and try. I try to keep my focus on that side.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusq3qd

fusrvi3

I used to feel that way until corona hit and I had to scrub my research project. Three months into quarantine and I’m still sitting here trying to work up the will power to get better at coding.

I had this feeling when I was in grad school. Now, it's more that I'll never have time in this life to create all the things I want to: books, games, etc., that will never see the light of day. OTOH, that means I'll never be bored. I'll never run out of things to learn, do, and try. I try to keep my focus on that side.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuspmt6

fustnz5

definitely i get fascinated by so many things that i have no idea how to focus on just one thing and it's frustrating

Chaucer had the same feeling: “The lyf so short the craft so longe to lerne.“ one of the quotes I most strongly identify with

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusr6w0

fustnz5

I'm more sad that I can't have chips every day without getting spherical.

Chaucer had the same feeling: “The lyf so short the craft so longe to lerne.“ one of the quotes I most strongly identify with

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fustnz5

fusq3qd

Chaucer had the same feeling: “The lyf so short the craft so longe to lerne.“ one of the quotes I most strongly identify with

I used to feel that way until corona hit and I had to scrub my research project. Three months into quarantine and I’m still sitting here trying to work up the will power to get better at coding.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusr6w0

fusu3ft

I'm more sad that I can't have chips every day without getting spherical.

All the time. If I believed in an afterlife, I’d want it to basically be infinite time in the library.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusq3qd

fusu3ft

I used to feel that way until corona hit and I had to scrub my research project. Three months into quarantine and I’m still sitting here trying to work up the will power to get better at coding.

All the time. If I believed in an afterlife, I’d want it to basically be infinite time in the library.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusya26

fusr6w0

Yes, but add on top of that being an artist, writer, and pianist. I feel like I'll just die a mediocre jack of all trades... I'm envious of people dedicated to being amazing with one thing, whether an artisan or just the most knowledgeable in one area.

I'm more sad that I can't have chips every day without getting spherical.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusya26

fusq3qd

Yes, but add on top of that being an artist, writer, and pianist. I feel like I'll just die a mediocre jack of all trades... I'm envious of people dedicated to being amazing with one thing, whether an artisan or just the most knowledgeable in one area.

I used to feel that way until corona hit and I had to scrub my research project. Three months into quarantine and I’m still sitting here trying to work up the will power to get better at coding.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusya26

fuswxrq

Yes, but add on top of that being an artist, writer, and pianist. I feel like I'll just die a mediocre jack of all trades... I'm envious of people dedicated to being amazing with one thing, whether an artisan or just the most knowledgeable in one area.

I do!

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusq3qd

fusr6w0

I used to feel that way until corona hit and I had to scrub my research project. Three months into quarantine and I’m still sitting here trying to work up the will power to get better at coding.

I'm more sad that I can't have chips every day without getting spherical.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fusq3qd

futa95p

I used to feel that way until corona hit and I had to scrub my research project. Three months into quarantine and I’m still sitting here trying to work up the will power to get better at coding.

No. As soon as you realise the depth of our lack of understanding of the details of everything, it is immediately apparent you will never be an expert in everything. There are people who spend life times mastering individual skills and areas of study. The days of being able to know everything about everything that was known died out - literally - thousands of years ago. So, you can sit and feel sad about it, or you can accept it and get on with doing what you can do. And - if you want a productive career in academia - that means you also need to give yourself peace and time to develop new knowledge and learn. There are tens of thousands of scientists working in related fields to all of us. Either we can spend our lives reading every minuscule byte of related information, or we can get ourselves to a working knowledge of a niche and try and contribute. I'm totally accepting and content with the idea that I will never be able to read lots of interesting things. Because the trade off is that I get to do lots of interesting and new things. The idea that you might get sad at not being able to read all the things feels a bit too close to the mentality of wanting to passively learn rather than actively do research (i.e. the step change between undergrad and grad education). Because you could always be reading someone else's work rather than doing your own.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuswxrq

futa95p

I do!

No. As soon as you realise the depth of our lack of understanding of the details of everything, it is immediately apparent you will never be an expert in everything. There are people who spend life times mastering individual skills and areas of study. The days of being able to know everything about everything that was known died out - literally - thousands of years ago. So, you can sit and feel sad about it, or you can accept it and get on with doing what you can do. And - if you want a productive career in academia - that means you also need to give yourself peace and time to develop new knowledge and learn. There are tens of thousands of scientists working in related fields to all of us. Either we can spend our lives reading every minuscule byte of related information, or we can get ourselves to a working knowledge of a niche and try and contribute. I'm totally accepting and content with the idea that I will never be able to read lots of interesting things. Because the trade off is that I get to do lots of interesting and new things. The idea that you might get sad at not being able to read all the things feels a bit too close to the mentality of wanting to passively learn rather than actively do research (i.e. the step change between undergrad and grad education). Because you could always be reading someone else's work rather than doing your own.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fut2d90

futa95p

Yes. I think about this a lot. I just try my best to learn as much as I can in the moment.

No. As soon as you realise the depth of our lack of understanding of the details of everything, it is immediately apparent you will never be an expert in everything. There are people who spend life times mastering individual skills and areas of study. The days of being able to know everything about everything that was known died out - literally - thousands of years ago. So, you can sit and feel sad about it, or you can accept it and get on with doing what you can do. And - if you want a productive career in academia - that means you also need to give yourself peace and time to develop new knowledge and learn. There are tens of thousands of scientists working in related fields to all of us. Either we can spend our lives reading every minuscule byte of related information, or we can get ourselves to a working knowledge of a niche and try and contribute. I'm totally accepting and content with the idea that I will never be able to read lots of interesting things. Because the trade off is that I get to do lots of interesting and new things. The idea that you might get sad at not being able to read all the things feels a bit too close to the mentality of wanting to passively learn rather than actively do research (i.e. the step change between undergrad and grad education). Because you could always be reading someone else's work rather than doing your own.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuu3b9x

futabf5

I had such good intentions when I started my PhD that I was going to finally fully understand statistics. Now I’m at the data analysis stage and I’ve just got to do the stuff without fully understanding how the maths behind it works.

You can only do what you can do. As philosophers and songwriters have observed, no one gets out alive. There is no official checklist to complete for the academic career roleplaying game. Despite all the cliches, life really is a journey and not a destination. Whatever you choose to focus on, make it count. On that journey wherever it takes you, try to make every one else's journey a little better.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuu3b9x

fuswxrq

I had such good intentions when I started my PhD that I was going to finally fully understand statistics. Now I’m at the data analysis stage and I’ve just got to do the stuff without fully understanding how the maths behind it works.

I do!

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fut2d90

fuu3b9x

Yes. I think about this a lot. I just try my best to learn as much as I can in the moment.

I had such good intentions when I started my PhD that I was going to finally fully understand statistics. Now I’m at the data analysis stage and I’ve just got to do the stuff without fully understanding how the maths behind it works.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

futksdc

fuu3b9x

Me every single day. I feel stupid all the time. In my field. But i know I’m not that stupid maybe (?)

I had such good intentions when I started my PhD that I was going to finally fully understand statistics. Now I’m at the data analysis stage and I’ve just got to do the stuff without fully understanding how the maths behind it works.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuu2ay0

fuu3b9x

I feel a lot of anxiety related to this. I also get very anxious about the need to circumscribe whatever it is I'm writing to a reasonable, cogent "message" – I keep seeing holes in everything I write and wanting to fix them. I mean, some of those gaps must be dealt with, but you also just have to say enough at times and leave things for the next paper/dissertation/presentation.

I had such good intentions when I started my PhD that I was going to finally fully understand statistics. Now I’m at the data analysis stage and I’ve just got to do the stuff without fully understanding how the maths behind it works.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

futabf5

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

You can only do what you can do. As philosophers and songwriters have observed, no one gets out alive. There is no official checklist to complete for the academic career roleplaying game. Despite all the cliches, life really is a journey and not a destination. Whatever you choose to focus on, make it count. On that journey wherever it takes you, try to make every one else's journey a little better.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fuswxrq

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

I do!

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fut2d90

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

Yes. I think about this a lot. I just try my best to learn as much as I can in the moment.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

futksdc

fuv1t20

Me every single day. I feel stupid all the time. In my field. But i know I’m not that stupid maybe (?)

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fuu2ay0

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

I feel a lot of anxiety related to this. I also get very anxious about the need to circumscribe whatever it is I'm writing to a reasonable, cogent "message" – I keep seeing holes in everything I write and wanting to fix them. I mean, some of those gaps must be dealt with, but you also just have to say enough at times and leave things for the next paper/dissertation/presentation.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fuueeou

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

This is sometimes why I watch Groundhog Day on repeat. Imagine getting to do each day over and over again before we get it right? And what can’t we do that? Haha... besides the whole time dilation thing.

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fuum5tc

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

Yep, this is pretty much how I feel all the time. No matter how much I learn, there will always be so much I will never be able to learn if only because the limits of life expectancy. But I'll be damned if I don't try to fit in as much as I can in the mean time!

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fuusmeo

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

RELATABLE. struggling with the same this at this point i my life

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

fuv1t20

fuut7oo

What's even stranger, is learning your professors, who are at the top of their field and extremely knowledgeable, are subject to the same lack of knowledge, because they simply forget. The reason why they keep telling us to read their articles, is because they wrote it down so they wouldn't have to remember. If they've since moved on in subject matter, they may not remember much of what they wrote. This is as true for us as it is for them. So with that understood, I've come to terms that the project of the the graduate thesis (and by extension academia), is the fine art of IDENTIFYING and WRITING only that which you are able to know. You can't know everything, so writing around what you know and don't know becomes the skill. Sorta like when I told my gf when she started a new job at a maddeningly byzantine organization: sometimes the meta-job IS the job.

I'm only 23, I don't believe it yet

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

futabf5

fuswxrq

You can only do what you can do. As philosophers and songwriters have observed, no one gets out alive. There is no official checklist to complete for the academic career roleplaying game. Despite all the cliches, life really is a journey and not a destination. Whatever you choose to focus on, make it count. On that journey wherever it takes you, try to make every one else's journey a little better.

I do!

h8t4fk

askacademia_train

Do you also happen to get sad because you simply will never have enough time to get the knowledge you want to? I was wondering if other people also get kind of sad because it is simply impossible to have enough time to learn everything you actually wanted to learn by a certain age/stage in life. Like idk, completing that list of books with important authors in your field which gets longer and longer while keeping up with the recent findings in your field. Or learning that additional programming language or further practicing the one your familiar with. Or learning one more additional language. And all of that on top of the workload you already have. Sometimes that makes me really sad because there are just so many things I am interested in and curious about but the more I study the things the longer the list of things I want to learn more about gets. Idk if you can relate but I just wanted to share this and I would be really interested to see what you think about this!

futabf5

fut2d90

You can only do what you can do. As philosophers and songwriters have observed, no one gets out alive. There is no official checklist to complete for the academic career roleplaying game. Despite all the cliches, life really is a journey and not a destination. Whatever you choose to focus on, make it count. On that journey wherever it takes you, try to make every one else's journey a little better.

Yes. I think about this a lot. I just try my best to learn as much as I can in the moment.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1rr1w

gm1mefh

Sorry to hear this. As someone who nope-d out of academia pretty much after defending, I have mixed feelings about this, but they're mostly positive. There's a part of me that wishes that academia was what I dreamt it was, and a part of me that wishes I had succeeded, despite it being not what I had hoped. But I don't regret anything. I went to grad school because I loved science - not for the money (lol), or the prestige, but because I loved it as a way of acquiring knowledge and learning about the world. That's still true today, and it will probably be true my whole life. For me, that realization helped me overcome what I think a lot of people fear when they think about leaving academia: "Will I ever be able to love something as much as this?" And just like the ending of a bad relationship, despite my feelings to the contrary at the time, the answer is yes. But more importantly, it doesn't matter even if the answer is "no", because from what you describe, it doesn't matter how much you love academia, academia does not love you back.

It doesn't even pay in prestige tbh. It's not like socially people give a shit whether you have a PhD or not. > Why did I do this to myself? It may have been a hard outcome to predict ex ante, or your risk management abilities may be lacking, or somewhere in between. There's no point now in punishing yourself for a decision you made years ago. tbh after 2 postdocs and 10 papers in mid-tier journals, I'd start looking at Plan B. At a certain point you should move on.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1owlw

gm1rr1w

I can relate. I found a decent position, but I've always kept my eye an the market and applied to the more "dream" schools since I've graduated. I only had one finalist interview at a "fancy" school. As usual, someone better connected than me with more pubs got the position. It's really rough out there. I can really relate to what your saying. My PhD experience was traumatic, and my advisor committed suicide when I was writing. I was almost booted from my program because the other major professor didn't like my topic. I was able to graduate super fast, but I think maybe only recently can I honestly say that it was worth getting the degree. Once of the things that I've had to do is branch out a bit into other areas of interest, and be flexible with the work that I do. Don't box yourself in to the tenure track only dream that gets sold to us. It's just not possible for most of us. Focus instead on what you can do creatively, and how you can make a living at the same time.

Sorry to hear this. As someone who nope-d out of academia pretty much after defending, I have mixed feelings about this, but they're mostly positive. There's a part of me that wishes that academia was what I dreamt it was, and a part of me that wishes I had succeeded, despite it being not what I had hoped. But I don't regret anything. I went to grad school because I loved science - not for the money (lol), or the prestige, but because I loved it as a way of acquiring knowledge and learning about the world. That's still true today, and it will probably be true my whole life. For me, that realization helped me overcome what I think a lot of people fear when they think about leaving academia: "Will I ever be able to love something as much as this?" And just like the ending of a bad relationship, despite my feelings to the contrary at the time, the answer is yes. But more importantly, it doesn't matter even if the answer is "no", because from what you describe, it doesn't matter how much you love academia, academia does not love you back.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1rr1w

gm1nitv

Sorry to hear this. As someone who nope-d out of academia pretty much after defending, I have mixed feelings about this, but they're mostly positive. There's a part of me that wishes that academia was what I dreamt it was, and a part of me that wishes I had succeeded, despite it being not what I had hoped. But I don't regret anything. I went to grad school because I loved science - not for the money (lol), or the prestige, but because I loved it as a way of acquiring knowledge and learning about the world. That's still true today, and it will probably be true my whole life. For me, that realization helped me overcome what I think a lot of people fear when they think about leaving academia: "Will I ever be able to love something as much as this?" And just like the ending of a bad relationship, despite my feelings to the contrary at the time, the answer is yes. But more importantly, it doesn't matter even if the answer is "no", because from what you describe, it doesn't matter how much you love academia, academia does not love you back.

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1rr1w

gm1r4t5

Sorry to hear this. As someone who nope-d out of academia pretty much after defending, I have mixed feelings about this, but they're mostly positive. There's a part of me that wishes that academia was what I dreamt it was, and a part of me that wishes I had succeeded, despite it being not what I had hoped. But I don't regret anything. I went to grad school because I loved science - not for the money (lol), or the prestige, but because I loved it as a way of acquiring knowledge and learning about the world. That's still true today, and it will probably be true my whole life. For me, that realization helped me overcome what I think a lot of people fear when they think about leaving academia: "Will I ever be able to love something as much as this?" And just like the ending of a bad relationship, despite my feelings to the contrary at the time, the answer is yes. But more importantly, it doesn't matter even if the answer is "no", because from what you describe, it doesn't matter how much you love academia, academia does not love you back.

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1owlw

gm1nitv

I can relate. I found a decent position, but I've always kept my eye an the market and applied to the more "dream" schools since I've graduated. I only had one finalist interview at a "fancy" school. As usual, someone better connected than me with more pubs got the position. It's really rough out there. I can really relate to what your saying. My PhD experience was traumatic, and my advisor committed suicide when I was writing. I was almost booted from my program because the other major professor didn't like my topic. I was able to graduate super fast, but I think maybe only recently can I honestly say that it was worth getting the degree. Once of the things that I've had to do is branch out a bit into other areas of interest, and be flexible with the work that I do. Don't box yourself in to the tenure track only dream that gets sold to us. It's just not possible for most of us. Focus instead on what you can do creatively, and how you can make a living at the same time.

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1tdil

gm1yyts

This question is for OP and anybody who has completed a PhD program. What did/does your program do in regards to helping with job placement, making connections, etc.? I'm asking because several of the programs I'm looking at boast about high job placement, particularly in academia, post-PhD program. ... If it matters I have my MBA, and I'm looking at PhD in Business programs.

1. Go apply for industry jobs 2. Get an entry level job 3. Be happy when you see your first pay check that's double the money for less work

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1yyts

gm1nitv

1. Go apply for industry jobs 2. Get an entry level job 3. Be happy when you see your first pay check that's double the money for less work

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1r4t5

gm1yyts

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

1. Go apply for industry jobs 2. Get an entry level job 3. Be happy when you see your first pay check that's double the money for less work

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1xpid

gm1yyts

Surely you must have some teaching or research skills of some sort? Or did you go down the path in such a way as to avoid teaching at all costs? I know some who did this - one coworker in particular treated his TA work like a joke and his students rated him with 1's and 2's on RateMyProfessor. Regardless, setting aside community college, there's also high school. I know that many people sneer at it, but personally I hate the attitude that "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." We've all had good teachers and terrible ones. Being one is the good ones is an accomplishment, whatever the level. But of course, a degree isn't just about teaching, and usually trains many skills. Perhaps you learned some coding or technical writing? It may just be that you're looking at the wrong jobs, or that your expectations are too high. Technical writing ability is valued in research and business alike. Coding and numerical skills, whether in python or excel or something else, can also be valuable. I'm sure you have some skills you can market. You may just have to go about it in a different way. Finally, it's also tough out there right now. The economy is sagging, partly due to covid. People are struggling. Don't go to hard on yourself.

1. Go apply for industry jobs 2. Get an entry level job 3. Be happy when you see your first pay check that's double the money for less work

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1tdil

gm226d0

This question is for OP and anybody who has completed a PhD program. What did/does your program do in regards to helping with job placement, making connections, etc.? I'm asking because several of the programs I'm looking at boast about high job placement, particularly in academia, post-PhD program. ... If it matters I have my MBA, and I'm looking at PhD in Business programs.

OP, please in no way take this as me being condescending in anyway. I just want to pass on what I have learned by *just* squeeking by into a TT position. 10 papers (unless they are all first author papers) is not enough to get into a TT position these days. I want to be clear that I think that paper count is an absolutely stupid metric to put the majority of a hiring decision on. If we're all being honest, number of papers is almost entirely correlated with how well funded and connected your group is, which of course you as an individual have very little control over. I fully acknowledge that I was extremely fortunate to be in a high output group and I know this is primarily the reason I have gotten this position. I just feel it's better to shoot you straight now and get an honest take. With all this said, I still fantasize about industry positions with their higher salary and normal work hours, so the grass is always greener. Edit: my context is through Chemistry. So apply the appropriate amount of salt

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm226d0

gm21r6d

OP, please in no way take this as me being condescending in anyway. I just want to pass on what I have learned by *just* squeeking by into a TT position. 10 papers (unless they are all first author papers) is not enough to get into a TT position these days. I want to be clear that I think that paper count is an absolutely stupid metric to put the majority of a hiring decision on. If we're all being honest, number of papers is almost entirely correlated with how well funded and connected your group is, which of course you as an individual have very little control over. I fully acknowledge that I was extremely fortunate to be in a high output group and I know this is primarily the reason I have gotten this position. I just feel it's better to shoot you straight now and get an honest take. With all this said, I still fantasize about industry positions with their higher salary and normal work hours, so the grass is always greener. Edit: my context is through Chemistry. So apply the appropriate amount of salt

If you want money, academia is the wrong place. You'll have much more financial success going corporate, but less freedom on what you want to do. It's hard, but you've just gotta weigh up on what you want more and if you want seriously higher pay that corporate is the way to go

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm226d0

gm1nitv

OP, please in no way take this as me being condescending in anyway. I just want to pass on what I have learned by *just* squeeking by into a TT position. 10 papers (unless they are all first author papers) is not enough to get into a TT position these days. I want to be clear that I think that paper count is an absolutely stupid metric to put the majority of a hiring decision on. If we're all being honest, number of papers is almost entirely correlated with how well funded and connected your group is, which of course you as an individual have very little control over. I fully acknowledge that I was extremely fortunate to be in a high output group and I know this is primarily the reason I have gotten this position. I just feel it's better to shoot you straight now and get an honest take. With all this said, I still fantasize about industry positions with their higher salary and normal work hours, so the grass is always greener. Edit: my context is through Chemistry. So apply the appropriate amount of salt

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm226d0

gm1r4t5

OP, please in no way take this as me being condescending in anyway. I just want to pass on what I have learned by *just* squeeking by into a TT position. 10 papers (unless they are all first author papers) is not enough to get into a TT position these days. I want to be clear that I think that paper count is an absolutely stupid metric to put the majority of a hiring decision on. If we're all being honest, number of papers is almost entirely correlated with how well funded and connected your group is, which of course you as an individual have very little control over. I fully acknowledge that I was extremely fortunate to be in a high output group and I know this is primarily the reason I have gotten this position. I just feel it's better to shoot you straight now and get an honest take. With all this said, I still fantasize about industry positions with their higher salary and normal work hours, so the grass is always greener. Edit: my context is through Chemistry. So apply the appropriate amount of salt

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1xpid

gm226d0

Surely you must have some teaching or research skills of some sort? Or did you go down the path in such a way as to avoid teaching at all costs? I know some who did this - one coworker in particular treated his TA work like a joke and his students rated him with 1's and 2's on RateMyProfessor. Regardless, setting aside community college, there's also high school. I know that many people sneer at it, but personally I hate the attitude that "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." We've all had good teachers and terrible ones. Being one is the good ones is an accomplishment, whatever the level. But of course, a degree isn't just about teaching, and usually trains many skills. Perhaps you learned some coding or technical writing? It may just be that you're looking at the wrong jobs, or that your expectations are too high. Technical writing ability is valued in research and business alike. Coding and numerical skills, whether in python or excel or something else, can also be valuable. I'm sure you have some skills you can market. You may just have to go about it in a different way. Finally, it's also tough out there right now. The economy is sagging, partly due to covid. People are struggling. Don't go to hard on yourself.

OP, please in no way take this as me being condescending in anyway. I just want to pass on what I have learned by *just* squeeking by into a TT position. 10 papers (unless they are all first author papers) is not enough to get into a TT position these days. I want to be clear that I think that paper count is an absolutely stupid metric to put the majority of a hiring decision on. If we're all being honest, number of papers is almost entirely correlated with how well funded and connected your group is, which of course you as an individual have very little control over. I fully acknowledge that I was extremely fortunate to be in a high output group and I know this is primarily the reason I have gotten this position. I just feel it's better to shoot you straight now and get an honest take. With all this said, I still fantasize about industry positions with their higher salary and normal work hours, so the grass is always greener. Edit: my context is through Chemistry. So apply the appropriate amount of salt

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1tdil

gm236ct

This question is for OP and anybody who has completed a PhD program. What did/does your program do in regards to helping with job placement, making connections, etc.? I'm asking because several of the programs I'm looking at boast about high job placement, particularly in academia, post-PhD program. ... If it matters I have my MBA, and I'm looking at PhD in Business programs.

A friend of mine used to say that we'd committed financial suicide by getting PhDs. For whatever it's worth, you're not at all alone in being disappointed by what your graduate studies led to.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1nitv

gm1tdil

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

This question is for OP and anybody who has completed a PhD program. What did/does your program do in regards to helping with job placement, making connections, etc.? I'm asking because several of the programs I'm looking at boast about high job placement, particularly in academia, post-PhD program. ... If it matters I have my MBA, and I'm looking at PhD in Business programs.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1r4t5

gm1tdil

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

This question is for OP and anybody who has completed a PhD program. What did/does your program do in regards to helping with job placement, making connections, etc.? I'm asking because several of the programs I'm looking at boast about high job placement, particularly in academia, post-PhD program. ... If it matters I have my MBA, and I'm looking at PhD in Business programs.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm236ct

gm21r6d

A friend of mine used to say that we'd committed financial suicide by getting PhDs. For whatever it's worth, you're not at all alone in being disappointed by what your graduate studies led to.

If you want money, academia is the wrong place. You'll have much more financial success going corporate, but less freedom on what you want to do. It's hard, but you've just gotta weigh up on what you want more and if you want seriously higher pay that corporate is the way to go

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm236ct

gm1nitv

A friend of mine used to say that we'd committed financial suicide by getting PhDs. For whatever it's worth, you're not at all alone in being disappointed by what your graduate studies led to.

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1r4t5

gm236ct

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

A friend of mine used to say that we'd committed financial suicide by getting PhDs. For whatever it's worth, you're not at all alone in being disappointed by what your graduate studies led to.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm236ct

gm1xpid

A friend of mine used to say that we'd committed financial suicide by getting PhDs. For whatever it's worth, you're not at all alone in being disappointed by what your graduate studies led to.

Surely you must have some teaching or research skills of some sort? Or did you go down the path in such a way as to avoid teaching at all costs? I know some who did this - one coworker in particular treated his TA work like a joke and his students rated him with 1's and 2's on RateMyProfessor. Regardless, setting aside community college, there's also high school. I know that many people sneer at it, but personally I hate the attitude that "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." We've all had good teachers and terrible ones. Being one is the good ones is an accomplishment, whatever the level. But of course, a degree isn't just about teaching, and usually trains many skills. Perhaps you learned some coding or technical writing? It may just be that you're looking at the wrong jobs, or that your expectations are too high. Technical writing ability is valued in research and business alike. Coding and numerical skills, whether in python or excel or something else, can also be valuable. I'm sure you have some skills you can market. You may just have to go about it in a different way. Finally, it's also tough out there right now. The economy is sagging, partly due to covid. People are struggling. Don't go to hard on yourself.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm23bom

gm21r6d

What you are describing is the result of the expanding federal granting program in STEM field that support doctoral student tuition and multiple post docs all overseen by a single TT professor. This was a cheap way to get the research done by talented but underpaid people. Since the TT professor is not retiring and universities are not expanding their TT faculty there are no jobs to absorb these talented people. The only thing to do is to find another place to use your talents and love of science. Try drug companies, journal editing and science publishing, science publications for the general public, start thinking out of the box. A former doctoral student of mine became a nurse. With your science background you could get your degree in about a year. Certain nursing fields, like nurse anesthetist, can make $200K+. There are Physicians Assistants programs. You may have to go back to school but there will be a job.

If you want money, academia is the wrong place. You'll have much more financial success going corporate, but less freedom on what you want to do. It's hard, but you've just gotta weigh up on what you want more and if you want seriously higher pay that corporate is the way to go

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1nitv

gm23bom

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

What you are describing is the result of the expanding federal granting program in STEM field that support doctoral student tuition and multiple post docs all overseen by a single TT professor. This was a cheap way to get the research done by talented but underpaid people. Since the TT professor is not retiring and universities are not expanding their TT faculty there are no jobs to absorb these talented people. The only thing to do is to find another place to use your talents and love of science. Try drug companies, journal editing and science publishing, science publications for the general public, start thinking out of the box. A former doctoral student of mine became a nurse. With your science background you could get your degree in about a year. Certain nursing fields, like nurse anesthetist, can make $200K+. There are Physicians Assistants programs. You may have to go back to school but there will be a job.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1r4t5

gm23bom

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

What you are describing is the result of the expanding federal granting program in STEM field that support doctoral student tuition and multiple post docs all overseen by a single TT professor. This was a cheap way to get the research done by talented but underpaid people. Since the TT professor is not retiring and universities are not expanding their TT faculty there are no jobs to absorb these talented people. The only thing to do is to find another place to use your talents and love of science. Try drug companies, journal editing and science publishing, science publications for the general public, start thinking out of the box. A former doctoral student of mine became a nurse. With your science background you could get your degree in about a year. Certain nursing fields, like nurse anesthetist, can make $200K+. There are Physicians Assistants programs. You may have to go back to school but there will be a job.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm23bom

gm1xpid

What you are describing is the result of the expanding federal granting program in STEM field that support doctoral student tuition and multiple post docs all overseen by a single TT professor. This was a cheap way to get the research done by talented but underpaid people. Since the TT professor is not retiring and universities are not expanding their TT faculty there are no jobs to absorb these talented people. The only thing to do is to find another place to use your talents and love of science. Try drug companies, journal editing and science publishing, science publications for the general public, start thinking out of the box. A former doctoral student of mine became a nurse. With your science background you could get your degree in about a year. Certain nursing fields, like nurse anesthetist, can make $200K+. There are Physicians Assistants programs. You may have to go back to school but there will be a job.

Surely you must have some teaching or research skills of some sort? Or did you go down the path in such a way as to avoid teaching at all costs? I know some who did this - one coworker in particular treated his TA work like a joke and his students rated him with 1's and 2's on RateMyProfessor. Regardless, setting aside community college, there's also high school. I know that many people sneer at it, but personally I hate the attitude that "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." We've all had good teachers and terrible ones. Being one is the good ones is an accomplishment, whatever the level. But of course, a degree isn't just about teaching, and usually trains many skills. Perhaps you learned some coding or technical writing? It may just be that you're looking at the wrong jobs, or that your expectations are too high. Technical writing ability is valued in research and business alike. Coding and numerical skills, whether in python or excel or something else, can also be valuable. I'm sure you have some skills you can market. You may just have to go about it in a different way. Finally, it's also tough out there right now. The economy is sagging, partly due to covid. People are struggling. Don't go to hard on yourself.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1nitv

gm21r6d

What is it in? Can you go into industry?

If you want money, academia is the wrong place. You'll have much more financial success going corporate, but less freedom on what you want to do. It's hard, but you've just gotta weigh up on what you want more and if you want seriously higher pay that corporate is the way to go

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm21r6d

gm1r4t5

If you want money, academia is the wrong place. You'll have much more financial success going corporate, but less freedom on what you want to do. It's hard, but you've just gotta weigh up on what you want more and if you want seriously higher pay that corporate is the way to go

I do. I did have some good things happen but I am quite disappointed. It's not you, it's the system. You have to be at the right place on the right time. If you feel like staying in academia, take the admin route. Working in admin is more secure, gets you on track and later on you can move to the research side. Thee is no point in trying to get a goodjob in academia, the generations before us have occupied those positions and won't let go their good salary and pension.

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm1xpid

gm21r6d

Surely you must have some teaching or research skills of some sort? Or did you go down the path in such a way as to avoid teaching at all costs? I know some who did this - one coworker in particular treated his TA work like a joke and his students rated him with 1's and 2's on RateMyProfessor. Regardless, setting aside community college, there's also high school. I know that many people sneer at it, but personally I hate the attitude that "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach." We've all had good teachers and terrible ones. Being one is the good ones is an accomplishment, whatever the level. But of course, a degree isn't just about teaching, and usually trains many skills. Perhaps you learned some coding or technical writing? It may just be that you're looking at the wrong jobs, or that your expectations are too high. Technical writing ability is valued in research and business alike. Coding and numerical skills, whether in python or excel or something else, can also be valuable. I'm sure you have some skills you can market. You may just have to go about it in a different way. Finally, it's also tough out there right now. The economy is sagging, partly due to covid. People are struggling. Don't go to hard on yourself.

If you want money, academia is the wrong place. You'll have much more financial success going corporate, but less freedom on what you want to do. It's hard, but you've just gotta weigh up on what you want more and if you want seriously higher pay that corporate is the way to go

lcrq4z

askacademia_train

Why did I pursue a PhD if it has not led to any opportunities? I’m feeling pretty down at the moment. I’ve been applying to TT jobs for a few years and have gotten no luck. I received my PhD from an average state school in 2015 and have had two relatively fruitful postdocs the last 5 years. I’ve published 10 papers in mid-tier journals. Yet it’s all been for nothing. I can’t get a job for the life of me. I’ve applied to probably almost 100 professor jobs with no success whatsoever. 4 year R1 schools, SLACs, and community colleges all have rejected me. I’m willing to relocate anywhere in the country. There’s too few jobs and I just don’t cut. I’m almost 35 now with a salary that an undergrad straight out of college wouldn’t be thrilled with. And I’ve busting my ass for more than a decade for pretty much nothing. No upside, no new or exciting opportunities, nothing. It sucks. I would have been better off teaching high school instead of trying in to break into higher ed. I’ve learned the hard way that the PhD pays in prestige, but you can’t eat prestige. Why did I do this to myself? Any one else feel this way?

gm26b3f

gm2tk3e

Don’t blame yourself, Covid destroyed the job market. Try looking at industry jobs.

Have you considered breaking into consulting or investment banking? I've heard that PhDs in those industries are valued a lot.

hhgmpm

askacademia_train

My prediction for the Fall semester 2020. Might play out like this: https://imgur.com/IVt9EiJ

fwafeii

fwa094e

I currently teach high school... We plan to be open face to face, once a kid gets COVID we're out for a week and anyone who was in class with that kid is out an additional week for quarantine... In a school with almost 2k students. Yeah, ok...

I’m surprised that USA Colleges are having face-to-face classes at all. It’s a high risk activity considering the potential outcome. Here in Australia where we are in a lot better position regarding COVID we are expecting to teach remotely from day 1.

hhgmpm

askacademia_train

My prediction for the Fall semester 2020. Might play out like this: https://imgur.com/IVt9EiJ

fwafeii

fwa2sdi

I currently teach high school... We plan to be open face to face, once a kid gets COVID we're out for a week and anyone who was in class with that kid is out an additional week for quarantine... In a school with almost 2k students. Yeah, ok...

My uni is gonna be all remote at least

hhgmpm

askacademia_train

My prediction for the Fall semester 2020. Might play out like this: https://imgur.com/IVt9EiJ

fwafch4

fwafeii

This is the correct take.

I currently teach high school... We plan to be open face to face, once a kid gets COVID we're out for a week and anyone who was in class with that kid is out an additional week for quarantine... In a school with almost 2k students. Yeah, ok...

hhgmpm

askacademia_train

My prediction for the Fall semester 2020. Might play out like this: https://imgur.com/IVt9EiJ

fwa2sdi

fway0p7

My uni is gonna be all remote at least

In all honesty; it's not going to happen. They *intend* to open, and they'd vastly prefer to open from a revenue perspective, but at the same time they're all quietly planning for the possibility (or, rather, probability) of online-only instruction. Eventually, they'll start acknowledging it.

hhgmpm

askacademia_train

My prediction for the Fall semester 2020. Might play out like this: https://imgur.com/IVt9EiJ

fwafch4

fway0p7

This is the correct take.

In all honesty; it's not going to happen. They *intend* to open, and they'd vastly prefer to open from a revenue perspective, but at the same time they're all quietly planning for the possibility (or, rather, probability) of online-only instruction. Eventually, they'll start acknowledging it.