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ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm68mr4

gm5k8t5

It depends on your goals. To be the #1 student in your program? Maybe. To get an R1 job? Maybe. To get a PhD? Hell no. To be moderately successful in your PhD? Probably not. Source: I got deeply depressed in year 2-3 of my program and worked about 10-15 hours a week for 8-12 months. My advisor didn't like it (I was unreliable as hell), but I'm still in the program. I still have 5ish publications, and teaching awards and stuff. I'm doing well. If I had just showed up and worked 40 hours a week every week, I'd be doing great right now. I don't think people work as hard as they pretend to. A lot of work, imo, boils down to "actual work" + hours of the emotional work of psyching yourself up to keep working. The upshot: Just really track your hours. Track what you do during those hours. Set boundaries, both for yourself and others. So have a target average, but also max hours and a min hours per week. When you're working, be present. When you're not working, don't be working.

The problem is that you're expected to finish too much work all the time. Even though you have a contract and it tells 45 hours work, there is no way to finish what you're asked to in that period. PIs don't officially tell that since they might face some problems with the administration. They just overcome it by pushing you more and more in each time. In my opinion it is best to have boundaries from the beginning. I don't and can't work that much for a long period, it would burn me out.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5l5yj

gm68mr4

Simple fact is, job searches in academia are competitive to an utterly dysfunctional degree. If you don't put in those hours, you will be stacking up against a handful to dozens/hundreds of other applicants whose qualifications match or exceed your own, and have put in that extra time. Who do you think is going to win out 999 times out of 1,000?

It depends on your goals. To be the #1 student in your program? Maybe. To get an R1 job? Maybe. To get a PhD? Hell no. To be moderately successful in your PhD? Probably not. Source: I got deeply depressed in year 2-3 of my program and worked about 10-15 hours a week for 8-12 months. My advisor didn't like it (I was unreliable as hell), but I'm still in the program. I still have 5ish publications, and teaching awards and stuff. I'm doing well. If I had just showed up and worked 40 hours a week every week, I'd be doing great right now. I don't think people work as hard as they pretend to. A lot of work, imo, boils down to "actual work" + hours of the emotional work of psyching yourself up to keep working. The upshot: Just really track your hours. Track what you do during those hours. Set boundaries, both for yourself and others. So have a target average, but also max hours and a min hours per week. When you're working, be present. When you're not working, don't be working.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm61yj6

gm68mr4

Yes. It is utterly toxic. I thought it was just my field until I got to know more people around academia and realized that it's even worse in the sciences because they really treat their students and post-docs like employees, except without the protections and mutual consent that ought to entail. It is a good thing to get a clear warning sign early on that researchers in many fields expect to exploit their students and employees and to talk and behave as if it's perfectly justified, and any objections are just a sign of some flaw. Obviously people who are thinking well realize that this mis-locates the flaws entirely. (Even knowing all this, it still has shocked me that throughout this pandemic, I have not gotten the impression that academics generally expect anything less from people lower in the hierarchy in terms of output- obviously an out-of-place notion in a well-functioning academy- than they would under normal circumstances. I know many people who were rightly barred from going to campus because of the virus but whose supervisors expressed judgment and disappointment that they had gotten less lab work done this past year...) To be clear, none of this is compulsory or mandatory, and in fact we all may have some sort of obligation to resist these pressures, but you should recognize that the expectation is there and it will not be easy to carve out a more healthy life for yourself. Edited to add: I'm in the U.S and am speaking mostly about my experience with people in the English-speaking world.

It depends on your goals. To be the #1 student in your program? Maybe. To get an R1 job? Maybe. To get a PhD? Hell no. To be moderately successful in your PhD? Probably not. Source: I got deeply depressed in year 2-3 of my program and worked about 10-15 hours a week for 8-12 months. My advisor didn't like it (I was unreliable as hell), but I'm still in the program. I still have 5ish publications, and teaching awards and stuff. I'm doing well. If I had just showed up and worked 40 hours a week every week, I'd be doing great right now. I don't think people work as hard as they pretend to. A lot of work, imo, boils down to "actual work" + hours of the emotional work of psyching yourself up to keep working. The upshot: Just really track your hours. Track what you do during those hours. Set boundaries, both for yourself and others. So have a target average, but also max hours and a min hours per week. When you're working, be present. When you're not working, don't be working.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5qe44

gm68mr4

You don't have to work 60-70 hours a week but a lot of your peers will. When it is time to look for jobs you may not be as competitive as your peers who put in the extra hours.

It depends on your goals. To be the #1 student in your program? Maybe. To get an R1 job? Maybe. To get a PhD? Hell no. To be moderately successful in your PhD? Probably not. Source: I got deeply depressed in year 2-3 of my program and worked about 10-15 hours a week for 8-12 months. My advisor didn't like it (I was unreliable as hell), but I'm still in the program. I still have 5ish publications, and teaching awards and stuff. I'm doing well. If I had just showed up and worked 40 hours a week every week, I'd be doing great right now. I don't think people work as hard as they pretend to. A lot of work, imo, boils down to "actual work" + hours of the emotional work of psyching yourself up to keep working. The upshot: Just really track your hours. Track what you do during those hours. Set boundaries, both for yourself and others. So have a target average, but also max hours and a min hours per week. When you're working, be present. When you're not working, don't be working.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm4y3cm

gm68mr4

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

It depends on your goals. To be the #1 student in your program? Maybe. To get an R1 job? Maybe. To get a PhD? Hell no. To be moderately successful in your PhD? Probably not. Source: I got deeply depressed in year 2-3 of my program and worked about 10-15 hours a week for 8-12 months. My advisor didn't like it (I was unreliable as hell), but I'm still in the program. I still have 5ish publications, and teaching awards and stuff. I'm doing well. If I had just showed up and worked 40 hours a week every week, I'd be doing great right now. I don't think people work as hard as they pretend to. A lot of work, imo, boils down to "actual work" + hours of the emotional work of psyching yourself up to keep working. The upshot: Just really track your hours. Track what you do during those hours. Set boundaries, both for yourself and others. So have a target average, but also max hours and a min hours per week. When you're working, be present. When you're not working, don't be working.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm6iqvv

gm5lwl6

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

Were the questions and answers done anonymously or just the questions? I wonder if the "expert" who gave that response is the student's supervisor. I absolutely LOVE my job. I love teaching, I love research, I love mentoring students, the works. I don't love being forced in to a corner where I'm forced to work more than I can for my mental or physical well-being. That has absolutely nothing to do with how much I love science and love my job. From my understanding, it's considered quite healthy to have hobbies outside of work - and if work is taking up 60-70 hours per week, that doesn't give much time for those, let alone a family or any relationships outside of work. There is this great organization called the National Center for Faculty Development & Diversity that really emphasizes work-life balance. I know several faculty members who follow their programs and are quite successful (have a life outside of work and are making research waves, while remaining excellent instructors), so it definitely can be done.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5k8t5

gm6iqvv

The problem is that you're expected to finish too much work all the time. Even though you have a contract and it tells 45 hours work, there is no way to finish what you're asked to in that period. PIs don't officially tell that since they might face some problems with the administration. They just overcome it by pushing you more and more in each time. In my opinion it is best to have boundaries from the beginning. I don't and can't work that much for a long period, it would burn me out.

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5l5yj

gm6iqvv

Simple fact is, job searches in academia are competitive to an utterly dysfunctional degree. If you don't put in those hours, you will be stacking up against a handful to dozens/hundreds of other applicants whose qualifications match or exceed your own, and have put in that extra time. Who do you think is going to win out 999 times out of 1,000?

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm61yj6

gm6iqvv

Yes. It is utterly toxic. I thought it was just my field until I got to know more people around academia and realized that it's even worse in the sciences because they really treat their students and post-docs like employees, except without the protections and mutual consent that ought to entail. It is a good thing to get a clear warning sign early on that researchers in many fields expect to exploit their students and employees and to talk and behave as if it's perfectly justified, and any objections are just a sign of some flaw. Obviously people who are thinking well realize that this mis-locates the flaws entirely. (Even knowing all this, it still has shocked me that throughout this pandemic, I have not gotten the impression that academics generally expect anything less from people lower in the hierarchy in terms of output- obviously an out-of-place notion in a well-functioning academy- than they would under normal circumstances. I know many people who were rightly barred from going to campus because of the virus but whose supervisors expressed judgment and disappointment that they had gotten less lab work done this past year...) To be clear, none of this is compulsory or mandatory, and in fact we all may have some sort of obligation to resist these pressures, but you should recognize that the expectation is there and it will not be easy to carve out a more healthy life for yourself. Edited to add: I'm in the U.S and am speaking mostly about my experience with people in the English-speaking world.

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm6iqvv

gm5qe44

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

You don't have to work 60-70 hours a week but a lot of your peers will. When it is time to look for jobs you may not be as competitive as your peers who put in the extra hours.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm6iqvv

gm6djfl

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

You are measured on product, not effort.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm6iqvv

gm4y3cm

You've gotten so many good comments on this post, but I'll also add this: most of the people who *think* they are working 60-80 hours a week really aren't. They're just spending that time *at* work (in their office, at their desk, etc.) There are studies that show that productivity drops sharply after about 50 hours a week, and after about 55 hours drops so sharply that it's kind of pointless to work additional hours (here). There's a reason why we moved away from that during the Industrial Revolution. Moreover, you're also more prone to making mistakes when you're exhausted and overworked. If you think about it, 70 hours a week would be 10 hours every day of the week, or 14 hours 5 days a week. That's just not a sustainable level of work. I left academia for industry a few years ago, and one of the things I learned is that when my work hours are *constrained* to 8/9 to 5, I get a lot more done in that period of time than I did when I was in academia and I theoretically had all day to do things. (It's also confounded by the fact that I grew up, though - I went to grad school straight from undergrad.) It's not that I was working more then, though; it's that I simply wasn't disciplined about. When I wrote my dissertation I got *very* disciplined - I wrote (or did dissertation-related things like analyzing data) from 10 to 6 every day and put in a few hours on Saturday as well, but I didn't get anywhere near 60 hours, and I finished my dissertation in 11 months. That professor doesn't necessarily love science more than you; he's just inefficient and is willing to sacrifice his personal time on the altar of science. Which is fine for him, I guess.

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5lwl6

gm5k8t5

Were the questions and answers done anonymously or just the questions? I wonder if the "expert" who gave that response is the student's supervisor. I absolutely LOVE my job. I love teaching, I love research, I love mentoring students, the works. I don't love being forced in to a corner where I'm forced to work more than I can for my mental or physical well-being. That has absolutely nothing to do with how much I love science and love my job. From my understanding, it's considered quite healthy to have hobbies outside of work - and if work is taking up 60-70 hours per week, that doesn't give much time for those, let alone a family or any relationships outside of work. There is this great organization called the National Center for Faculty Development & Diversity that really emphasizes work-life balance. I know several faculty members who follow their programs and are quite successful (have a life outside of work and are making research waves, while remaining excellent instructors), so it definitely can be done.

The problem is that you're expected to finish too much work all the time. Even though you have a contract and it tells 45 hours work, there is no way to finish what you're asked to in that period. PIs don't officially tell that since they might face some problems with the administration. They just overcome it by pushing you more and more in each time. In my opinion it is best to have boundaries from the beginning. I don't and can't work that much for a long period, it would burn me out.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5l5yj

gm5lwl6

Simple fact is, job searches in academia are competitive to an utterly dysfunctional degree. If you don't put in those hours, you will be stacking up against a handful to dozens/hundreds of other applicants whose qualifications match or exceed your own, and have put in that extra time. Who do you think is going to win out 999 times out of 1,000?

Were the questions and answers done anonymously or just the questions? I wonder if the "expert" who gave that response is the student's supervisor. I absolutely LOVE my job. I love teaching, I love research, I love mentoring students, the works. I don't love being forced in to a corner where I'm forced to work more than I can for my mental or physical well-being. That has absolutely nothing to do with how much I love science and love my job. From my understanding, it's considered quite healthy to have hobbies outside of work - and if work is taking up 60-70 hours per week, that doesn't give much time for those, let alone a family or any relationships outside of work. There is this great organization called the National Center for Faculty Development & Diversity that really emphasizes work-life balance. I know several faculty members who follow their programs and are quite successful (have a life outside of work and are making research waves, while remaining excellent instructors), so it definitely can be done.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5lwl6

gm4y3cm

Were the questions and answers done anonymously or just the questions? I wonder if the "expert" who gave that response is the student's supervisor. I absolutely LOVE my job. I love teaching, I love research, I love mentoring students, the works. I don't love being forced in to a corner where I'm forced to work more than I can for my mental or physical well-being. That has absolutely nothing to do with how much I love science and love my job. From my understanding, it's considered quite healthy to have hobbies outside of work - and if work is taking up 60-70 hours per week, that doesn't give much time for those, let alone a family or any relationships outside of work. There is this great organization called the National Center for Faculty Development & Diversity that really emphasizes work-life balance. I know several faculty members who follow their programs and are quite successful (have a life outside of work and are making research waves, while remaining excellent instructors), so it definitely can be done.

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5k8t5

gm6qqpq

The problem is that you're expected to finish too much work all the time. Even though you have a contract and it tells 45 hours work, there is no way to finish what you're asked to in that period. PIs don't officially tell that since they might face some problems with the administration. They just overcome it by pushing you more and more in each time. In my opinion it is best to have boundaries from the beginning. I don't and can't work that much for a long period, it would burn me out.

I worked 40 hours per week, all through grad school (unless I had a HUGE deadline). I got some judgement for it, but honestly, my productivity was higher than many of the people who “worked” more hours. I simply was efficient with my time because I was balanced and well rested. All this to say, it’s a job to me. I personally don’t feel like I owe the academy all my hours and happiness.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5l5yj

gm6qqpq

Simple fact is, job searches in academia are competitive to an utterly dysfunctional degree. If you don't put in those hours, you will be stacking up against a handful to dozens/hundreds of other applicants whose qualifications match or exceed your own, and have put in that extra time. Who do you think is going to win out 999 times out of 1,000?

I worked 40 hours per week, all through grad school (unless I had a HUGE deadline). I got some judgement for it, but honestly, my productivity was higher than many of the people who “worked” more hours. I simply was efficient with my time because I was balanced and well rested. All this to say, it’s a job to me. I personally don’t feel like I owe the academy all my hours and happiness.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm61yj6

gm6qqpq

Yes. It is utterly toxic. I thought it was just my field until I got to know more people around academia and realized that it's even worse in the sciences because they really treat their students and post-docs like employees, except without the protections and mutual consent that ought to entail. It is a good thing to get a clear warning sign early on that researchers in many fields expect to exploit their students and employees and to talk and behave as if it's perfectly justified, and any objections are just a sign of some flaw. Obviously people who are thinking well realize that this mis-locates the flaws entirely. (Even knowing all this, it still has shocked me that throughout this pandemic, I have not gotten the impression that academics generally expect anything less from people lower in the hierarchy in terms of output- obviously an out-of-place notion in a well-functioning academy- than they would under normal circumstances. I know many people who were rightly barred from going to campus because of the virus but whose supervisors expressed judgment and disappointment that they had gotten less lab work done this past year...) To be clear, none of this is compulsory or mandatory, and in fact we all may have some sort of obligation to resist these pressures, but you should recognize that the expectation is there and it will not be easy to carve out a more healthy life for yourself. Edited to add: I'm in the U.S and am speaking mostly about my experience with people in the English-speaking world.

I worked 40 hours per week, all through grad school (unless I had a HUGE deadline). I got some judgement for it, but honestly, my productivity was higher than many of the people who “worked” more hours. I simply was efficient with my time because I was balanced and well rested. All this to say, it’s a job to me. I personally don’t feel like I owe the academy all my hours and happiness.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5qe44

gm6qqpq

You don't have to work 60-70 hours a week but a lot of your peers will. When it is time to look for jobs you may not be as competitive as your peers who put in the extra hours.

I worked 40 hours per week, all through grad school (unless I had a HUGE deadline). I got some judgement for it, but honestly, my productivity was higher than many of the people who “worked” more hours. I simply was efficient with my time because I was balanced and well rested. All this to say, it’s a job to me. I personally don’t feel like I owe the academy all my hours and happiness.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm6djfl

gm6qqpq

You are measured on product, not effort.

I worked 40 hours per week, all through grad school (unless I had a HUGE deadline). I got some judgement for it, but honestly, my productivity was higher than many of the people who “worked” more hours. I simply was efficient with my time because I was balanced and well rested. All this to say, it’s a job to me. I personally don’t feel like I owe the academy all my hours and happiness.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm6qqpq

gm4y3cm

I worked 40 hours per week, all through grad school (unless I had a HUGE deadline). I got some judgement for it, but honestly, my productivity was higher than many of the people who “worked” more hours. I simply was efficient with my time because I was balanced and well rested. All this to say, it’s a job to me. I personally don’t feel like I owe the academy all my hours and happiness.

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5k8t5

gm5l5yj

The problem is that you're expected to finish too much work all the time. Even though you have a contract and it tells 45 hours work, there is no way to finish what you're asked to in that period. PIs don't officially tell that since they might face some problems with the administration. They just overcome it by pushing you more and more in each time. In my opinion it is best to have boundaries from the beginning. I don't and can't work that much for a long period, it would burn me out.

Simple fact is, job searches in academia are competitive to an utterly dysfunctional degree. If you don't put in those hours, you will be stacking up against a handful to dozens/hundreds of other applicants whose qualifications match or exceed your own, and have put in that extra time. Who do you think is going to win out 999 times out of 1,000?

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm4y3cm

gm5k8t5

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

The problem is that you're expected to finish too much work all the time. Even though you have a contract and it tells 45 hours work, there is no way to finish what you're asked to in that period. PIs don't officially tell that since they might face some problems with the administration. They just overcome it by pushing you more and more in each time. In my opinion it is best to have boundaries from the beginning. I don't and can't work that much for a long period, it would burn me out.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm5l5yj

gm4y3cm

Simple fact is, job searches in academia are competitive to an utterly dysfunctional degree. If you don't put in those hours, you will be stacking up against a handful to dozens/hundreds of other applicants whose qualifications match or exceed your own, and have put in that extra time. Who do you think is going to win out 999 times out of 1,000?

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm4y3cm

gm61yj6

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yes. It is utterly toxic. I thought it was just my field until I got to know more people around academia and realized that it's even worse in the sciences because they really treat their students and post-docs like employees, except without the protections and mutual consent that ought to entail. It is a good thing to get a clear warning sign early on that researchers in many fields expect to exploit their students and employees and to talk and behave as if it's perfectly justified, and any objections are just a sign of some flaw. Obviously people who are thinking well realize that this mis-locates the flaws entirely. (Even knowing all this, it still has shocked me that throughout this pandemic, I have not gotten the impression that academics generally expect anything less from people lower in the hierarchy in terms of output- obviously an out-of-place notion in a well-functioning academy- than they would under normal circumstances. I know many people who were rightly barred from going to campus because of the virus but whose supervisors expressed judgment and disappointment that they had gotten less lab work done this past year...) To be clear, none of this is compulsory or mandatory, and in fact we all may have some sort of obligation to resist these pressures, but you should recognize that the expectation is there and it will not be easy to carve out a more healthy life for yourself. Edited to add: I'm in the U.S and am speaking mostly about my experience with people in the English-speaking world.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm4y3cm

gm5qe44

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

You don't have to work 60-70 hours a week but a lot of your peers will. When it is time to look for jobs you may not be as competitive as your peers who put in the extra hours.

ldc0to

askacademia_train

Are you expected to work 60-70 hours a week in the academia? This is part rant and part question. I had an introductory meeting with about 15-16 other PhD students who had just started and the session included a question answer session with professors where anonymous questions could be asked. One individual, whose supervisor expected him to work weekends as well, asked the professors how he can politely tell his supervisor that this isnt right. The response of one of the professors was: "We are in this because we love science. If you don't want to work weekends, perhaps you do not love science and you do not belong here. If that is the case, you should leave." I was rather shocked. I admit that I do put in extra hours because I want to and have to because of my horrible productivity throughout the day. However, what was suggested by the "expert" was that it is basically compulsory to do this. Is that really what is expected in the Academia? Why is it like that? Why isn't mental and physical health given their due importance? Burn out is a thing.

gm4y3cm

gm6djfl

I think it’s not fair. But, yea, I think it is expected. And, if you don’t, you probably won’t be competitive in the job market (unless your productivity is so high that you can compete with people that work all the time). Even if you work weekend and holidays, I still don’t think you are guarantee a job. I am not a PhD yet, so take it with a grain of salt.

You are measured on product, not effort.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbvxarb

gbvy34y

As long as you keep evidence of the way you practice and work there should always be evidence to back you up and let them know that they can't blame their mistakes on you. On the other hand regarding the comments and treatment you can try to escalate things: correct them either in the spot or privately as it fits the situation, make a stand of your view and why x behaviour is offensive, take things up with a superior if things go out of control, and take note of the policies of where you are at so you can be protected. You can check r/twoxchromosomes and post in there to, is quite a supportive community and I have seen posts alike where other women offer their insights and experience.

Not in the exact same situation, but I feel you. Men consciously or subconsciously do still treat women as inferior in STEM. It sucks.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbvy4df

gbw5ngv

I can only speak from my experience, but I frequently get talked down/over in my lab group as well. It is hard to ignore, but after 4 years I realized it is a lot easier just to learn to not worry about it, plus realistically what can you do? I think my advice for not taking it personally is trying not to stew, when I sit and think about what happened for hours at a time it just makes me feel awful, but if I actively just move on right after it happens and try not to stew it seems to help me not feel so belittled. It may be worth noting anecdotally that lots of people in academia are condescending as fuck; I think a common theme is people thinking they are always the smartest person in the room and implicit biases don't help this. I am a male in an all male group with a female advisor, so there aren't really the same misogyny vibes of your lab, but I find it easier just to not worry about it myself versus trying to talk to/change people who are just going to be assholes by default. Just my two cents.

Find a woman mentor. I am a female professor (geology) who used to work in a Civil Engineering department. There were 2 other women faculty, and the rest were men. I spent a lot of time trying to increase the number of women in our program. The key to survival is to find other women in your program (ideally professors, or more advanced grad students) and connect with them. They don't necessarily need to be doing what you do, and I'm not suggesting you should switch advisors (based on what you wrote so far), but you need to find a safe space to commiserate, give guidance for actions you can take, etc., etc. And to all the men in STEM reading this, you also need to be active in the fight for equality in STEM! If you see a male colleague/fellow student talking over a female, or taking over a project, or making an off-color joke, speak up! The "boys club" mentality will never change unless the "boys" are also fighting for the change! Hang in there, OP, you are not an impostor!

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw5ngv

gbw445b

Find a woman mentor. I am a female professor (geology) who used to work in a Civil Engineering department. There were 2 other women faculty, and the rest were men. I spent a lot of time trying to increase the number of women in our program. The key to survival is to find other women in your program (ideally professors, or more advanced grad students) and connect with them. They don't necessarily need to be doing what you do, and I'm not suggesting you should switch advisors (based on what you wrote so far), but you need to find a safe space to commiserate, give guidance for actions you can take, etc., etc. And to all the men in STEM reading this, you also need to be active in the fight for equality in STEM! If you see a male colleague/fellow student talking over a female, or taking over a project, or making an off-color joke, speak up! The "boys club" mentality will never change unless the "boys" are also fighting for the change! Hang in there, OP, you are not an impostor!

Welcome to the boys club called Engineering. Firstly congratulations on being here, we need women in engineering and there is an epic lack of female perspective in the area. I can understand that you are finding the environment challenging and hostile, and a lot of your male colleagues find your presence unusual from the status quo, however, this is not something that should stop you. You must take control and stand by your work. You have to stand up for yourself. If your little shits of students are blaming their mistakes on you, plainly point out their mistakes to them, don't be shy about it. Try to explain their mistakes to them FIRST and If they behave in a way that it is your fault, let them know you won't be afraid to penalize their sloppy work or escalate the matter accordingly. You are not their MOM. In the lab where you work, you need to make sure that you establish boundaries on what your projects belong to you with your advisor and other folks at the lab. As a male student who is doing a Ph.D. in engineering, I often found my senior colleagues at the lab try to take over my work in the final days in the name of "collaboration" etc. Whenever this happened to me, I made sure to have a joint meeting with the entire team to establish the work and contributions they would be making, and when you do this these people fuck right off. They are freeloaders trying to get authorship. it is important to establish the authorship and contributions in your projects early on. Assert yourself, don't be intimidated. You belong in the field don't let the biased field make you feel otherwise. Definitely make friends in and outside your department, be part of IEEE Women or women in Engineering groups, they can advise you much better.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw5ngv

gbw0oy4

Find a woman mentor. I am a female professor (geology) who used to work in a Civil Engineering department. There were 2 other women faculty, and the rest were men. I spent a lot of time trying to increase the number of women in our program. The key to survival is to find other women in your program (ideally professors, or more advanced grad students) and connect with them. They don't necessarily need to be doing what you do, and I'm not suggesting you should switch advisors (based on what you wrote so far), but you need to find a safe space to commiserate, give guidance for actions you can take, etc., etc. And to all the men in STEM reading this, you also need to be active in the fight for equality in STEM! If you see a male colleague/fellow student talking over a female, or taking over a project, or making an off-color joke, speak up! The "boys club" mentality will never change unless the "boys" are also fighting for the change! Hang in there, OP, you are not an impostor!

As a male researcher, I know I probably do this inadvertently and I would appreciate knowing when I’m doing it so I can train that behavior out of myself. I know it’s not fair to ask this of you, but I think we would all benefit from being told when we’re stepping on our female colleagues.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw5ngv

gbvxarb

Find a woman mentor. I am a female professor (geology) who used to work in a Civil Engineering department. There were 2 other women faculty, and the rest were men. I spent a lot of time trying to increase the number of women in our program. The key to survival is to find other women in your program (ideally professors, or more advanced grad students) and connect with them. They don't necessarily need to be doing what you do, and I'm not suggesting you should switch advisors (based on what you wrote so far), but you need to find a safe space to commiserate, give guidance for actions you can take, etc., etc. And to all the men in STEM reading this, you also need to be active in the fight for equality in STEM! If you see a male colleague/fellow student talking over a female, or taking over a project, or making an off-color joke, speak up! The "boys club" mentality will never change unless the "boys" are also fighting for the change! Hang in there, OP, you are not an impostor!

As long as you keep evidence of the way you practice and work there should always be evidence to back you up and let them know that they can't blame their mistakes on you. On the other hand regarding the comments and treatment you can try to escalate things: correct them either in the spot or privately as it fits the situation, make a stand of your view and why x behaviour is offensive, take things up with a superior if things go out of control, and take note of the policies of where you are at so you can be protected. You can check r/twoxchromosomes and post in there to, is quite a supportive community and I have seen posts alike where other women offer their insights and experience.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw5ngv

gbw0bw0

Find a woman mentor. I am a female professor (geology) who used to work in a Civil Engineering department. There were 2 other women faculty, and the rest were men. I spent a lot of time trying to increase the number of women in our program. The key to survival is to find other women in your program (ideally professors, or more advanced grad students) and connect with them. They don't necessarily need to be doing what you do, and I'm not suggesting you should switch advisors (based on what you wrote so far), but you need to find a safe space to commiserate, give guidance for actions you can take, etc., etc. And to all the men in STEM reading this, you also need to be active in the fight for equality in STEM! If you see a male colleague/fellow student talking over a female, or taking over a project, or making an off-color joke, speak up! The "boys club" mentality will never change unless the "boys" are also fighting for the change! Hang in there, OP, you are not an impostor!

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbvxarb

gbvy4df

As long as you keep evidence of the way you practice and work there should always be evidence to back you up and let them know that they can't blame their mistakes on you. On the other hand regarding the comments and treatment you can try to escalate things: correct them either in the spot or privately as it fits the situation, make a stand of your view and why x behaviour is offensive, take things up with a superior if things go out of control, and take note of the policies of where you are at so you can be protected. You can check r/twoxchromosomes and post in there to, is quite a supportive community and I have seen posts alike where other women offer their insights and experience.

I can only speak from my experience, but I frequently get talked down/over in my lab group as well. It is hard to ignore, but after 4 years I realized it is a lot easier just to learn to not worry about it, plus realistically what can you do? I think my advice for not taking it personally is trying not to stew, when I sit and think about what happened for hours at a time it just makes me feel awful, but if I actively just move on right after it happens and try not to stew it seems to help me not feel so belittled. It may be worth noting anecdotally that lots of people in academia are condescending as fuck; I think a common theme is people thinking they are always the smartest person in the room and implicit biases don't help this. I am a male in an all male group with a female advisor, so there aren't really the same misogyny vibes of your lab, but I find it easier just to not worry about it myself versus trying to talk to/change people who are just going to be assholes by default. Just my two cents.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw445b

gbw0oy4

Welcome to the boys club called Engineering. Firstly congratulations on being here, we need women in engineering and there is an epic lack of female perspective in the area. I can understand that you are finding the environment challenging and hostile, and a lot of your male colleagues find your presence unusual from the status quo, however, this is not something that should stop you. You must take control and stand by your work. You have to stand up for yourself. If your little shits of students are blaming their mistakes on you, plainly point out their mistakes to them, don't be shy about it. Try to explain their mistakes to them FIRST and If they behave in a way that it is your fault, let them know you won't be afraid to penalize their sloppy work or escalate the matter accordingly. You are not their MOM. In the lab where you work, you need to make sure that you establish boundaries on what your projects belong to you with your advisor and other folks at the lab. As a male student who is doing a Ph.D. in engineering, I often found my senior colleagues at the lab try to take over my work in the final days in the name of "collaboration" etc. Whenever this happened to me, I made sure to have a joint meeting with the entire team to establish the work and contributions they would be making, and when you do this these people fuck right off. They are freeloaders trying to get authorship. it is important to establish the authorship and contributions in your projects early on. Assert yourself, don't be intimidated. You belong in the field don't let the biased field make you feel otherwise. Definitely make friends in and outside your department, be part of IEEE Women or women in Engineering groups, they can advise you much better.

As a male researcher, I know I probably do this inadvertently and I would appreciate knowing when I’m doing it so I can train that behavior out of myself. I know it’s not fair to ask this of you, but I think we would all benefit from being told when we’re stepping on our female colleagues.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw445b

gbvxarb

Welcome to the boys club called Engineering. Firstly congratulations on being here, we need women in engineering and there is an epic lack of female perspective in the area. I can understand that you are finding the environment challenging and hostile, and a lot of your male colleagues find your presence unusual from the status quo, however, this is not something that should stop you. You must take control and stand by your work. You have to stand up for yourself. If your little shits of students are blaming their mistakes on you, plainly point out their mistakes to them, don't be shy about it. Try to explain their mistakes to them FIRST and If they behave in a way that it is your fault, let them know you won't be afraid to penalize their sloppy work or escalate the matter accordingly. You are not their MOM. In the lab where you work, you need to make sure that you establish boundaries on what your projects belong to you with your advisor and other folks at the lab. As a male student who is doing a Ph.D. in engineering, I often found my senior colleagues at the lab try to take over my work in the final days in the name of "collaboration" etc. Whenever this happened to me, I made sure to have a joint meeting with the entire team to establish the work and contributions they would be making, and when you do this these people fuck right off. They are freeloaders trying to get authorship. it is important to establish the authorship and contributions in your projects early on. Assert yourself, don't be intimidated. You belong in the field don't let the biased field make you feel otherwise. Definitely make friends in and outside your department, be part of IEEE Women or women in Engineering groups, they can advise you much better.

As long as you keep evidence of the way you practice and work there should always be evidence to back you up and let them know that they can't blame their mistakes on you. On the other hand regarding the comments and treatment you can try to escalate things: correct them either in the spot or privately as it fits the situation, make a stand of your view and why x behaviour is offensive, take things up with a superior if things go out of control, and take note of the policies of where you are at so you can be protected. You can check r/twoxchromosomes and post in there to, is quite a supportive community and I have seen posts alike where other women offer their insights and experience.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw445b

gbw0bw0

Welcome to the boys club called Engineering. Firstly congratulations on being here, we need women in engineering and there is an epic lack of female perspective in the area. I can understand that you are finding the environment challenging and hostile, and a lot of your male colleagues find your presence unusual from the status quo, however, this is not something that should stop you. You must take control and stand by your work. You have to stand up for yourself. If your little shits of students are blaming their mistakes on you, plainly point out their mistakes to them, don't be shy about it. Try to explain their mistakes to them FIRST and If they behave in a way that it is your fault, let them know you won't be afraid to penalize their sloppy work or escalate the matter accordingly. You are not their MOM. In the lab where you work, you need to make sure that you establish boundaries on what your projects belong to you with your advisor and other folks at the lab. As a male student who is doing a Ph.D. in engineering, I often found my senior colleagues at the lab try to take over my work in the final days in the name of "collaboration" etc. Whenever this happened to me, I made sure to have a joint meeting with the entire team to establish the work and contributions they would be making, and when you do this these people fuck right off. They are freeloaders trying to get authorship. it is important to establish the authorship and contributions in your projects early on. Assert yourself, don't be intimidated. You belong in the field don't let the biased field make you feel otherwise. Definitely make friends in and outside your department, be part of IEEE Women or women in Engineering groups, they can advise you much better.

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw0oy4

gbw9pcz

As a male researcher, I know I probably do this inadvertently and I would appreciate knowing when I’m doing it so I can train that behavior out of myself. I know it’s not fair to ask this of you, but I think we would all benefit from being told when we’re stepping on our female colleagues.

Here are some things you can do: 1. Understand that they are part of a larger culture and it is so normal to them, they often don't even realise they are doing it. So, if you want to do something about it you have decide whether you want to draw their attention to it and when and how. Or you have to suck it up. You may make this choice from incident to incident - you don't have to choose one path always. 2. Understand you work in an environment where most people are socially and emotionally immature or even have disabilities in that area. They get away with it because they deliver something of value and they have privledge. So, factor in that not only are they unaware, when they become aware they may not care or understand what you are talking about. 3. Find allies. There are people who likely don't treat you that way. Gravitate toward them as much as possible. 4. Find mentors. There are leaders who are encouraging and supportive. They might not even be in your discipline. Find them and utilise their support. 5. Go to HR/Guild/Student Council. Join groups that further women's issues or women in STEM. Go through appropriate channels to recommend that training on conscious and unconscious bias is part of the routine where you are. 6. When you have a situation where you are sidelined and you want to speak up do it respectfully (note Kamala Harris in one of the VP's debates. Mike Pence didn't even realise he was cutting her off as he is so used to it, but she held her ground) but firmly. 7. Don't wait for anything to be handed to you. 8. Don't all them into your personal life or do anything that is not 100 percent professional. 9. Ensure if someone is taking credit for your work you immediately remedy the situation with evidence of your contribution and then query with the individual why they would say it was their work? (This is theft in academia and should be taken very seriously) 10. Write down every incident you experience and then put it in a drawer. It creates a record in case you want to go formal with someone for repeated behaviour but you can also show it to someone else to determine if you are being too sensitive. 11. Understand that women do this to other women as well - personally and professionally. it is a human condition that when you have privilege to want to hang on to it.There is no nirvana where everyone gets what they deserve. Determine what you need to do to succeed (network, self-champion, etc) in your field and do it. It is really up to you to be resilient and positive.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbvxarb

gbw9pcz

As long as you keep evidence of the way you practice and work there should always be evidence to back you up and let them know that they can't blame their mistakes on you. On the other hand regarding the comments and treatment you can try to escalate things: correct them either in the spot or privately as it fits the situation, make a stand of your view and why x behaviour is offensive, take things up with a superior if things go out of control, and take note of the policies of where you are at so you can be protected. You can check r/twoxchromosomes and post in there to, is quite a supportive community and I have seen posts alike where other women offer their insights and experience.

Here are some things you can do: 1. Understand that they are part of a larger culture and it is so normal to them, they often don't even realise they are doing it. So, if you want to do something about it you have decide whether you want to draw their attention to it and when and how. Or you have to suck it up. You may make this choice from incident to incident - you don't have to choose one path always. 2. Understand you work in an environment where most people are socially and emotionally immature or even have disabilities in that area. They get away with it because they deliver something of value and they have privledge. So, factor in that not only are they unaware, when they become aware they may not care or understand what you are talking about. 3. Find allies. There are people who likely don't treat you that way. Gravitate toward them as much as possible. 4. Find mentors. There are leaders who are encouraging and supportive. They might not even be in your discipline. Find them and utilise their support. 5. Go to HR/Guild/Student Council. Join groups that further women's issues or women in STEM. Go through appropriate channels to recommend that training on conscious and unconscious bias is part of the routine where you are. 6. When you have a situation where you are sidelined and you want to speak up do it respectfully (note Kamala Harris in one of the VP's debates. Mike Pence didn't even realise he was cutting her off as he is so used to it, but she held her ground) but firmly. 7. Don't wait for anything to be handed to you. 8. Don't all them into your personal life or do anything that is not 100 percent professional. 9. Ensure if someone is taking credit for your work you immediately remedy the situation with evidence of your contribution and then query with the individual why they would say it was their work? (This is theft in academia and should be taken very seriously) 10. Write down every incident you experience and then put it in a drawer. It creates a record in case you want to go formal with someone for repeated behaviour but you can also show it to someone else to determine if you are being too sensitive. 11. Understand that women do this to other women as well - personally and professionally. it is a human condition that when you have privilege to want to hang on to it.There is no nirvana where everyone gets what they deserve. Determine what you need to do to succeed (network, self-champion, etc) in your field and do it. It is really up to you to be resilient and positive.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw0bw0

gbw9pcz

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

Here are some things you can do: 1. Understand that they are part of a larger culture and it is so normal to them, they often don't even realise they are doing it. So, if you want to do something about it you have decide whether you want to draw their attention to it and when and how. Or you have to suck it up. You may make this choice from incident to incident - you don't have to choose one path always. 2. Understand you work in an environment where most people are socially and emotionally immature or even have disabilities in that area. They get away with it because they deliver something of value and they have privledge. So, factor in that not only are they unaware, when they become aware they may not care or understand what you are talking about. 3. Find allies. There are people who likely don't treat you that way. Gravitate toward them as much as possible. 4. Find mentors. There are leaders who are encouraging and supportive. They might not even be in your discipline. Find them and utilise their support. 5. Go to HR/Guild/Student Council. Join groups that further women's issues or women in STEM. Go through appropriate channels to recommend that training on conscious and unconscious bias is part of the routine where you are. 6. When you have a situation where you are sidelined and you want to speak up do it respectfully (note Kamala Harris in one of the VP's debates. Mike Pence didn't even realise he was cutting her off as he is so used to it, but she held her ground) but firmly. 7. Don't wait for anything to be handed to you. 8. Don't all them into your personal life or do anything that is not 100 percent professional. 9. Ensure if someone is taking credit for your work you immediately remedy the situation with evidence of your contribution and then query with the individual why they would say it was their work? (This is theft in academia and should be taken very seriously) 10. Write down every incident you experience and then put it in a drawer. It creates a record in case you want to go formal with someone for repeated behaviour but you can also show it to someone else to determine if you are being too sensitive. 11. Understand that women do this to other women as well - personally and professionally. it is a human condition that when you have privilege to want to hang on to it.There is no nirvana where everyone gets what they deserve. Determine what you need to do to succeed (network, self-champion, etc) in your field and do it. It is really up to you to be resilient and positive.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw0oy4

gbvxarb

As a male researcher, I know I probably do this inadvertently and I would appreciate knowing when I’m doing it so I can train that behavior out of myself. I know it’s not fair to ask this of you, but I think we would all benefit from being told when we’re stepping on our female colleagues.

As long as you keep evidence of the way you practice and work there should always be evidence to back you up and let them know that they can't blame their mistakes on you. On the other hand regarding the comments and treatment you can try to escalate things: correct them either in the spot or privately as it fits the situation, make a stand of your view and why x behaviour is offensive, take things up with a superior if things go out of control, and take note of the policies of where you are at so you can be protected. You can check r/twoxchromosomes and post in there to, is quite a supportive community and I have seen posts alike where other women offer their insights and experience.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw0bw0

gbw0oy4

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

As a male researcher, I know I probably do this inadvertently and I would appreciate knowing when I’m doing it so I can train that behavior out of myself. I know it’s not fair to ask this of you, but I think we would all benefit from being told when we’re stepping on our female colleagues.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbwf9xn

gbw0bw0

I definitely feel you on this. I've had to pick and choose my battles before with this stuff, and it's a tough balance between losing my temper and not saying anything and stewing. In the right situation when I can manage the courage to say something calmly, I've been direct and said things like "you're interrupting me". My personal favorite is when I say something at a normal volume and everyone ignores me, and the tallest, whitest idiot man in the room heard it and says it like it was his own, and everyone claps like orangutans. I could have an aneurysm when this happens because then I have to call it out and then I'm a "bitch". or "not congenial". Ahem anyways...are they your friends, or people that you spend time with? I'm guessing you're mistaking them as actual friends when they're just classmates, and that's probably why it hurts so much. I saw this game recently and played through it, it's a short narrative game about male computer engineering students basically just being creepy assholes to the only woman in the class. You might find it cathartic, I know I did http://www.gamergirl.games/game/playtest

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbwepsi

gbwf9xn

I’m graduate school it may not be because you are a woman (though it might be) it might be because grad school brings out some of the worst traits in people in the “I have to show I’m the smartest” which is counterproductive to being a researcher since research is collaborating The best advice is to be confident and direct when you are taking about your work and back that up with results As for the students, they do that to everyone, male or female

I definitely feel you on this. I've had to pick and choose my battles before with this stuff, and it's a tough balance between losing my temper and not saying anything and stewing. In the right situation when I can manage the courage to say something calmly, I've been direct and said things like "you're interrupting me". My personal favorite is when I say something at a normal volume and everyone ignores me, and the tallest, whitest idiot man in the room heard it and says it like it was his own, and everyone claps like orangutans. I could have an aneurysm when this happens because then I have to call it out and then I'm a "bitch". or "not congenial". Ahem anyways...are they your friends, or people that you spend time with? I'm guessing you're mistaking them as actual friends when they're just classmates, and that's probably why it hurts so much. I saw this game recently and played through it, it's a short narrative game about male computer engineering students basically just being creepy assholes to the only woman in the class. You might find it cathartic, I know I did http://www.gamergirl.games/game/playtest

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbxcq4d

gbw0bw0

You need to stand up for yourself. "I wasn't finished yet" "I'd like to hear your feedback after I've finished my point." "You can't blame me for mistakes you made. Perhaps paying more attention next time I'm giving instructions will help. You are always free to ask questions, too." "As you are aware, this is a project I'm leading. If you have any ideas, please schedule a meeting or send them via email and we can discuss later." "Thank you for your input on my project but since this is my project, you won't be able to take it over."

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbwepsi

gbxcq4d

I’m graduate school it may not be because you are a woman (though it might be) it might be because grad school brings out some of the worst traits in people in the “I have to show I’m the smartest” which is counterproductive to being a researcher since research is collaborating The best advice is to be confident and direct when you are taking about your work and back that up with results As for the students, they do that to everyone, male or female

You need to stand up for yourself. "I wasn't finished yet" "I'd like to hear your feedback after I've finished my point." "You can't blame me for mistakes you made. Perhaps paying more attention next time I'm giving instructions will help. You are always free to ask questions, too." "As you are aware, this is a project I'm leading. If you have any ideas, please schedule a meeting or send them via email and we can discuss later." "Thank you for your input on my project but since this is my project, you won't be able to take it over."

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbwn134

gbxcq4d

Check our /r/LadiesofScience

You need to stand up for yourself. "I wasn't finished yet" "I'd like to hear your feedback after I've finished my point." "You can't blame me for mistakes you made. Perhaps paying more attention next time I'm giving instructions will help. You are always free to ask questions, too." "As you are aware, this is a project I'm leading. If you have any ideas, please schedule a meeting or send them via email and we can discuss later." "Thank you for your input on my project but since this is my project, you won't be able to take it over."

jrxatp

askacademia_train

Female Grad Student in Engineering having Challenges working with Men I’m noticing this pattern where I get sidelined by men who take over something I was working on, or male colleagues opening talking down to me in front of our superiors, or even the male students that I TA blaming their mistakes on me and I am getting extremely frustrated. Even with the men in my cohort that I consider my friends, I have moments where I am talked down to, talked over, or my input is not taken as seriously. These moments like often derail me for the rest of the day, and reinforce all the icky imposter syndrome feelings I have going on. I tried to google but all I got was icky misoginistic “lean in” type rhetoric that just tells me to have less feelings and be one of the boys. Do you have any advice? Or any good reading material that you have found on this topic?

gbw0bw0

gbwepsi

Can you tell us more about how you got sidelined on this project? Usually it's the advisor's job to make it clear who is in charge of which project. Don't let people just take things from you... I think the best thing you could do is to try to find a female professor to discuss your problems with. Doesn't even need to be in the same department. Either send them a cold email or show up to their office hours sometime and ask if they wouldn't mind talking to you about a couple of these kinds of things. I'm a guy so take it with a grain of salt.

I’m graduate school it may not be because you are a woman (though it might be) it might be because grad school brings out some of the worst traits in people in the “I have to show I’m the smartest” which is counterproductive to being a researcher since research is collaborating The best advice is to be confident and direct when you are taking about your work and back that up with results As for the students, they do that to everyone, male or female

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5g0n8

fk5ha63

So I don't know if this is used in the USA, but it's widely used in Canada. We use this thing called Lockdown Browser, it's mainly used with students who are online. When a student opens it, it blocks them from using external applications on their laptops/computers. Professors can also enable the browser to video/audio record when students enter their tests, to ensure students don't cheat.

You can't stop it but you can minimize it. Assuming you will offer exams on your LMS (e.g. Blackboard): 1. Set the time for the exam in such way that it is 35-45 seconds per question. This makes it harder to Google or look up the answers. Advanced: Google your questions to make sure the answers are not readily available. If they are, restructure the question. 2. Make questions appear one at a time (not the entire exam). This makes it harder for one student to print out the exam and have others work on it. 3. Randomize the order of how questions appear so there is no way to create a solutions key with question numbers. 4. Make the exam available only at the same time as the on-campus exam time so everyone takes it at the same time. 5. Do not provide the correct answers or the student score immediately, you can release those after everyone has taken the exam. Hope this helps, good luck!

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5ha63

fk5f6m0

You can't stop it but you can minimize it. Assuming you will offer exams on your LMS (e.g. Blackboard): 1. Set the time for the exam in such way that it is 35-45 seconds per question. This makes it harder to Google or look up the answers. Advanced: Google your questions to make sure the answers are not readily available. If they are, restructure the question. 2. Make questions appear one at a time (not the entire exam). This makes it harder for one student to print out the exam and have others work on it. 3. Randomize the order of how questions appear so there is no way to create a solutions key with question numbers. 4. Make the exam available only at the same time as the on-campus exam time so everyone takes it at the same time. 5. Do not provide the correct answers or the student score immediately, you can release those after everyone has taken the exam. Hope this helps, good luck!

No.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5ha63

fk5fyj3

You can't stop it but you can minimize it. Assuming you will offer exams on your LMS (e.g. Blackboard): 1. Set the time for the exam in such way that it is 35-45 seconds per question. This makes it harder to Google or look up the answers. Advanced: Google your questions to make sure the answers are not readily available. If they are, restructure the question. 2. Make questions appear one at a time (not the entire exam). This makes it harder for one student to print out the exam and have others work on it. 3. Randomize the order of how questions appear so there is no way to create a solutions key with question numbers. 4. Make the exam available only at the same time as the on-campus exam time so everyone takes it at the same time. 5. Do not provide the correct answers or the student score immediately, you can release those after everyone has taken the exam. Hope this helps, good luck!

You could create several versions of the exam where the questions/answers are ordered differently. It would stop wholesale copying. But it wouldn't stop people from working together.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5gy99

fk5ha63

You could use online proctoring services like Proctor U. They have remote access to the student's screen, and will watch the student via webcam the entire time until they submit their exam. They need the student to verify ID and also ask you to move your webcam around the room before beginning the exam.

You can't stop it but you can minimize it. Assuming you will offer exams on your LMS (e.g. Blackboard): 1. Set the time for the exam in such way that it is 35-45 seconds per question. This makes it harder to Google or look up the answers. Advanced: Google your questions to make sure the answers are not readily available. If they are, restructure the question. 2. Make questions appear one at a time (not the entire exam). This makes it harder for one student to print out the exam and have others work on it. 3. Randomize the order of how questions appear so there is no way to create a solutions key with question numbers. 4. Make the exam available only at the same time as the on-campus exam time so everyone takes it at the same time. 5. Do not provide the correct answers or the student score immediately, you can release those after everyone has taken the exam. Hope this helps, good luck!

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5g0n8

fk5f6m0

So I don't know if this is used in the USA, but it's widely used in Canada. We use this thing called Lockdown Browser, it's mainly used with students who are online. When a student opens it, it blocks them from using external applications on their laptops/computers. Professors can also enable the browser to video/audio record when students enter their tests, to ensure students don't cheat.

No.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5g0n8

fk5fyj3

So I don't know if this is used in the USA, but it's widely used in Canada. We use this thing called Lockdown Browser, it's mainly used with students who are online. When a student opens it, it blocks them from using external applications on their laptops/computers. Professors can also enable the browser to video/audio record when students enter their tests, to ensure students don't cheat.

You could create several versions of the exam where the questions/answers are ordered differently. It would stop wholesale copying. But it wouldn't stop people from working together.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5l4mu

fk5fyj3

A couple years ago, I made all my exams online and open-book for large lecture courses. I emphasize that they need to take careful notes during lectures and I have them submit lecture notes for 1/4 course credit. Exams are timed as if taken during class tome. I still see a normal distribution of scores. Remember, if they cheat they are cheating themselves.

You could create several versions of the exam where the questions/answers are ordered differently. It would stop wholesale copying. But it wouldn't stop people from working together.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5l4mu

fk5hwqj

A couple years ago, I made all my exams online and open-book for large lecture courses. I emphasize that they need to take careful notes during lectures and I have them submit lecture notes for 1/4 course credit. Exams are timed as if taken during class tome. I still see a normal distribution of scores. Remember, if they cheat they are cheating themselves.

If you use Moodle (the LMS my campus uses) you can upload a large bank of questions (true false and multiple choice) and then have it setup where each student gets a subset of random questions from the question bank. So say you have a 25-30 question final, you can upload a 100 question bank and each student will have a unique test. After that, Moodle will allow you to set a time limit for the test. That way, it would cut down on group work and it would also be too much work for students to work through together. The only question you’d have to figure out after that is if you would want them to take it as an open note/open book test.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5gy99

fk5l4mu

You could use online proctoring services like Proctor U. They have remote access to the student's screen, and will watch the student via webcam the entire time until they submit their exam. They need the student to verify ID and also ask you to move your webcam around the room before beginning the exam.

A couple years ago, I made all my exams online and open-book for large lecture courses. I emphasize that they need to take careful notes during lectures and I have them submit lecture notes for 1/4 course credit. Exams are timed as if taken during class tome. I still see a normal distribution of scores. Remember, if they cheat they are cheating themselves.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5knto

fk5l4mu

Someone else said a 15 minute oral exam... a takeoff of that idea.... How about after the written exam you do a five minute per student ask them a variation of 2 questions they got right over a video call. If they got it right on the exam and get it wrong on the video call they lose a chunk of points. Also knowing this, maybe people will be more inclined to try to learn the material. The other angle is its a pandemic... tell the kids cheating is just cheating themselves out of the learning they are paying for and just for this circumstance let it be at that.

A couple years ago, I made all my exams online and open-book for large lecture courses. I emphasize that they need to take careful notes during lectures and I have them submit lecture notes for 1/4 course credit. Exams are timed as if taken during class tome. I still see a normal distribution of scores. Remember, if they cheat they are cheating themselves.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5igg0

fk5l4mu

Create different versions of the exam, randomize the questions, place a time limit.

A couple years ago, I made all my exams online and open-book for large lecture courses. I emphasize that they need to take careful notes during lectures and I have them submit lecture notes for 1/4 course credit. Exams are timed as if taken during class tome. I still see a normal distribution of scores. Remember, if they cheat they are cheating themselves.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk6hmcf

fk5fyj3

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

You could create several versions of the exam where the questions/answers are ordered differently. It would stop wholesale copying. But it wouldn't stop people from working together.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5hwqj

fk6hmcf

If you use Moodle (the LMS my campus uses) you can upload a large bank of questions (true false and multiple choice) and then have it setup where each student gets a subset of random questions from the question bank. So say you have a 25-30 question final, you can upload a 100 question bank and each student will have a unique test. After that, Moodle will allow you to set a time limit for the test. That way, it would cut down on group work and it would also be too much work for students to work through together. The only question you’d have to figure out after that is if you would want them to take it as an open note/open book test.

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk6hmcf

fk5gy99

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

You could use online proctoring services like Proctor U. They have remote access to the student's screen, and will watch the student via webcam the entire time until they submit their exam. They need the student to verify ID and also ask you to move your webcam around the room before beginning the exam.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5mo75

fk6hmcf

Get lockdown browser with web cam monitor (respondus, proctorio etc). Specify that they can use a couple pages of notes and write the questions to accommodate that. That tricks them into studying anyway, because making good cheat sheets requires active engagement. Shuffle the questions and answers. If you want a total of say 80 questions, program in 100, so that everyone has a slightly different version of the test. I also agree with making the questions appear one at a time, but i still like to leave the ability to flag a question and let them go back to it. I also agree with making everyone take the exam at the same time.

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk6hmcf

fk5knto

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

Someone else said a 15 minute oral exam... a takeoff of that idea.... How about after the written exam you do a five minute per student ask them a variation of 2 questions they got right over a video call. If they got it right on the exam and get it wrong on the video call they lose a chunk of points. Also knowing this, maybe people will be more inclined to try to learn the material. The other angle is its a pandemic... tell the kids cheating is just cheating themselves out of the learning they are paying for and just for this circumstance let it be at that.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk6hmcf

fk6e51s

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

These are all good suggestions, however I want to add something very simple that seems to have some effect. For the first question of my online exams, I have a true/false question worth zero points that states: > I am taking this test under my own identity and will not use any outside materials to assist me in this exam including notes, textbook, websites, or another person. I will also not discuss the content of this exam with anyone that has not completed the exam. Here is a post from another professor that was doing something similar. Depending on the honor code culture of your university, you may want to reference it. This is probably not a substitute for the other practices given here, but it is so easy to implement, even if it only has a very small effect size, it easily falls into the why not category.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk6hmcf

fk5igg0

I am a student and I just want to say please please don’t go the route of setting very strict time limits. I have a documented disability due to a processing disorder that slows me down so I can get extended time, but for students who aren’t diagnosed it harms them. In my opinion a good way to go about it is using essay style questions. You have a lot of students so I don’t know how practical it is, but this is a good way to gauge understanding and make it hard to cheat. If I don’t know the content well, I have a very hard time with an essay question no matter how much internet I have access to.

Create different versions of the exam, randomize the questions, place a time limit.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5hwqj

fk5gy99

If you use Moodle (the LMS my campus uses) you can upload a large bank of questions (true false and multiple choice) and then have it setup where each student gets a subset of random questions from the question bank. So say you have a 25-30 question final, you can upload a 100 question bank and each student will have a unique test. After that, Moodle will allow you to set a time limit for the test. That way, it would cut down on group work and it would also be too much work for students to work through together. The only question you’d have to figure out after that is if you would want them to take it as an open note/open book test.

You could use online proctoring services like Proctor U. They have remote access to the student's screen, and will watch the student via webcam the entire time until they submit their exam. They need the student to verify ID and also ask you to move your webcam around the room before beginning the exam.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5mo75

fk5knto

Get lockdown browser with web cam monitor (respondus, proctorio etc). Specify that they can use a couple pages of notes and write the questions to accommodate that. That tricks them into studying anyway, because making good cheat sheets requires active engagement. Shuffle the questions and answers. If you want a total of say 80 questions, program in 100, so that everyone has a slightly different version of the test. I also agree with making the questions appear one at a time, but i still like to leave the ability to flag a question and let them go back to it. I also agree with making everyone take the exam at the same time.

Someone else said a 15 minute oral exam... a takeoff of that idea.... How about after the written exam you do a five minute per student ask them a variation of 2 questions they got right over a video call. If they got it right on the exam and get it wrong on the video call they lose a chunk of points. Also knowing this, maybe people will be more inclined to try to learn the material. The other angle is its a pandemic... tell the kids cheating is just cheating themselves out of the learning they are paying for and just for this circumstance let it be at that.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5igg0

fk5mo75

Create different versions of the exam, randomize the questions, place a time limit.

Get lockdown browser with web cam monitor (respondus, proctorio etc). Specify that they can use a couple pages of notes and write the questions to accommodate that. That tricks them into studying anyway, because making good cheat sheets requires active engagement. Shuffle the questions and answers. If you want a total of say 80 questions, program in 100, so that everyone has a slightly different version of the test. I also agree with making the questions appear one at a time, but i still like to leave the ability to flag a question and let them go back to it. I also agree with making everyone take the exam at the same time.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk5knto

fk5igg0

Someone else said a 15 minute oral exam... a takeoff of that idea.... How about after the written exam you do a five minute per student ask them a variation of 2 questions they got right over a video call. If they got it right on the exam and get it wrong on the video call they lose a chunk of points. Also knowing this, maybe people will be more inclined to try to learn the material. The other angle is its a pandemic... tell the kids cheating is just cheating themselves out of the learning they are paying for and just for this circumstance let it be at that.

Create different versions of the exam, randomize the questions, place a time limit.

fgm60c

askacademia_train

The university that I teach at (NYU) has gone remote because of the coronivirus. I teach two classes of over 100 students and give multiple choice exams. Is there any possible way to stop them from cheating on the exams?

fk6e51s

fk5igg0

These are all good suggestions, however I want to add something very simple that seems to have some effect. For the first question of my online exams, I have a true/false question worth zero points that states: > I am taking this test under my own identity and will not use any outside materials to assist me in this exam including notes, textbook, websites, or another person. I will also not discuss the content of this exam with anyone that has not completed the exam. Here is a post from another professor that was doing something similar. Depending on the honor code culture of your university, you may want to reference it. This is probably not a substitute for the other practices given here, but it is so easy to implement, even if it only has a very small effect size, it easily falls into the why not category.

Create different versions of the exam, randomize the questions, place a time limit.

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycjqey

fyclhff

I Just Ran Two Million Regressions

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1465-5922.1996.00165.x You are welcome...

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyclhff

fyciz43

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1465-5922.1996.00165.x You are welcome...

I came across a genetic screening approach called Big Papi yesterday 🤦‍♀️

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycred0

fycjqey

Classic favorite for these threads, be sure to check the figures. https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0001969

I Just Ran Two Million Regressions

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyciz43

fycjqey

I came across a genetic screening approach called Big Papi yesterday 🤦‍♀️

I Just Ran Two Million Regressions

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyciz43

fycred0

I came across a genetic screening approach called Big Papi yesterday 🤦‍♀️

Classic favorite for these threads, be sure to check the figures. https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0001969

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycred0

fycpsvu

Classic favorite for these threads, be sure to check the figures. https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0001969

You Only Look Once: Unified, Real-Time Object Detection Yes, they called their framework YOLO. https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.02640

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycq8os

fycred0

Effects of packaging, equipment, and storage time on energy used for reheating beef stew. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=beef+stew&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DSj-zvXQpWGkJ

Classic favorite for these threads, be sure to check the figures. https://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0001969

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyciz43

fycsgeb

I came across a genetic screening approach called Big Papi yesterday 🤦‍♀️

The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322240/

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycsgeb

fycpsvu

The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322240/

You Only Look Once: Unified, Real-Time Object Detection Yes, they called their framework YOLO. https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.02640

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycsg7d

fycsgeb

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/556640/ You might regret this thread, I have a few, we had a bit of a competition going a while back at work to see who could find the best/worst/weirdest papers

The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322240/

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycq8os

fycsgeb

Effects of packaging, equipment, and storage time on energy used for reheating beef stew. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=beef+stew&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DSj-zvXQpWGkJ

The case of the disappearing teaspoons: longitudinal cohort study of the displacement of teaspoons in an Australian research institute. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1322240/

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyciz43

fycpsvu

I came across a genetic screening approach called Big Papi yesterday 🤦‍♀️

You Only Look Once: Unified, Real-Time Object Detection Yes, they called their framework YOLO. https://arxiv.org/abs/1506.02640

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycvwu1

fyctvf0

I was going to link What's The Deal With Birds but it appears that they've taken it down :'(

uhhhh this one: The Effects of the Injection of Human Semen into Female Animals

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycsg7d

fycvwu1

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/556640/ You might regret this thread, I have a few, we had a bit of a competition going a while back at work to see who could find the best/worst/weirdest papers

I was going to link What's The Deal With Birds but it appears that they've taken it down :'(

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycvwu1

fycq8os

I was going to link What's The Deal With Birds but it appears that they've taken it down :'(

Effects of packaging, equipment, and storage time on energy used for reheating beef stew. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=beef+stew&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DSj-zvXQpWGkJ

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyctvf0

fyd1d07

uhhhh this one: The Effects of the Injection of Human Semen into Female Animals

Eve Sedgwick’s essay “Paranoid Reading and Reparative Reading, or, You’re So Vain You Probably Think This Essay Is About You” is still incredibly influential in my field

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd1d07

fyd0qw6

Eve Sedgwick’s essay “Paranoid Reading and Reparative Reading, or, You’re So Vain You Probably Think This Essay Is About You” is still incredibly influential in my field

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28454896/ "Did You Climax or Are You Just Laughing at Me?" Rare Phenomena Associated With Orgasm

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd1d07

fycsg7d

Eve Sedgwick’s essay “Paranoid Reading and Reparative Reading, or, You’re So Vain You Probably Think This Essay Is About You” is still incredibly influential in my field

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/556640/ You might regret this thread, I have a few, we had a bit of a competition going a while back at work to see who could find the best/worst/weirdest papers

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycq8os

fyd1d07

Effects of packaging, equipment, and storage time on energy used for reheating beef stew. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=beef+stew&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DSj-zvXQpWGkJ

Eve Sedgwick’s essay “Paranoid Reading and Reparative Reading, or, You’re So Vain You Probably Think This Essay Is About You” is still incredibly influential in my field

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd1d07

fyd0s4q

Eve Sedgwick’s essay “Paranoid Reading and Reparative Reading, or, You’re So Vain You Probably Think This Essay Is About You” is still incredibly influential in my field

Not a journal article, but i believe this conference title/theme deserves to be here: how deep is your law?

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyctvf0

fyd5ey6

uhhhh this one: The Effects of the Injection of Human Semen into Female Animals

Here's a few in philosophy, collected by Mike Otsuka. Harry Frankfurt, “On Bullshit,” *Raritan Quarterly Review* (1986) David Enoch, “Once You Start Using Slippery Slope Arguments, You’re on a Very Slippery Slope”, *Oxford Journal of Legal Studies* (2001) David Enoch, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice If p, therefore p”, *Utilitas* (2009)

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd0qw6

fyd5ey6

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28454896/ "Did You Climax or Are You Just Laughing at Me?" Rare Phenomena Associated With Orgasm

Here's a few in philosophy, collected by Mike Otsuka. Harry Frankfurt, “On Bullshit,” *Raritan Quarterly Review* (1986) David Enoch, “Once You Start Using Slippery Slope Arguments, You’re on a Very Slippery Slope”, *Oxford Journal of Legal Studies* (2001) David Enoch, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice If p, therefore p”, *Utilitas* (2009)

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycsg7d

fyd5ey6

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/556640/ You might regret this thread, I have a few, we had a bit of a competition going a while back at work to see who could find the best/worst/weirdest papers

Here's a few in philosophy, collected by Mike Otsuka. Harry Frankfurt, “On Bullshit,” *Raritan Quarterly Review* (1986) David Enoch, “Once You Start Using Slippery Slope Arguments, You’re on a Very Slippery Slope”, *Oxford Journal of Legal Studies* (2001) David Enoch, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice If p, therefore p”, *Utilitas* (2009)

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fycq8os

fyd5ey6

Effects of packaging, equipment, and storage time on energy used for reheating beef stew. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=beef+stew&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DSj-zvXQpWGkJ

Here's a few in philosophy, collected by Mike Otsuka. Harry Frankfurt, “On Bullshit,” *Raritan Quarterly Review* (1986) David Enoch, “Once You Start Using Slippery Slope Arguments, You’re on a Very Slippery Slope”, *Oxford Journal of Legal Studies* (2001) David Enoch, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice If p, therefore p”, *Utilitas* (2009)

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd5ey6

fyd0s4q

Here's a few in philosophy, collected by Mike Otsuka. Harry Frankfurt, “On Bullshit,” *Raritan Quarterly Review* (1986) David Enoch, “Once You Start Using Slippery Slope Arguments, You’re on a Very Slippery Slope”, *Oxford Journal of Legal Studies* (2001) David Enoch, “Wouldn’t It Be Nice If p, therefore p”, *Utilitas* (2009)

Not a journal article, but i believe this conference title/theme deserves to be here: how deep is your law?

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd5v32

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Analysis and Qualitative Effects of Large Breasts on Aerodynamic Performance and Wake of a “Miss Kobayashi’s Dragon Maid” Character Someone wrote a paper about anime titties.

uhhhh this one: The Effects of the Injection of Human Semen into Female Animals

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyctvf0

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uhhhh this one: The Effects of the Injection of Human Semen into Female Animals

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/556640/ You might regret this thread, I have a few, we had a bit of a competition going a while back at work to see who could find the best/worst/weirdest papers

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

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fyctvf0

Effects of packaging, equipment, and storage time on energy used for reheating beef stew. https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=beef+stew&hl=en&as_sdt=0,5#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3DSj-zvXQpWGkJ

uhhhh this one: The Effects of the Injection of Human Semen into Female Animals

hsti6p

askacademia_train

What are some of the more absurd journal article titles you're come across? Having recently come across "The hitchhikers guide to flow chemistry" and "Will Any Crap We Put into Graphene Increase Its Electrocatalytic Effect?" journal articles, I was quite amused by them. What are some other articles that you've come across that have weird/absurd/funny titles? Also, what did it make you think of the authors who wrote them?

fyd0qw6

fyd5v32

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28454896/ "Did You Climax or Are You Just Laughing at Me?" Rare Phenomena Associated With Orgasm

Analysis and Qualitative Effects of Large Breasts on Aerodynamic Performance and Wake of a “Miss Kobayashi’s Dragon Maid” Character Someone wrote a paper about anime titties.