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[speaker001:] yeah uh uh uh capital punishment I understand means if somebody commits a serious enough crime we kill them [speaker002:] that's correct [speaker001:] is that your understanding of it [speaker002:] right uh-huh [speaker001:] well let me put it bluntly there's not too many things that Arabs do right but one of the things they do is have a low crime rates they don't have too many repeat offenders [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and they have uh very serious capital punishment over there [speaker002:] yes I I really think that um there is room for that I feel like if anybody has committed murder and they and they convict them that they definitely and they're sentenced to life in prison then it's not fair to have us to pay for them to stay there for life and then get paroled and go back out [speaker001:] hum-um hum-um hum-um [speaker002:] I believe that if they're convicted and it's um you know the only scary part I see in that is a crooked law system that would put people to death without enough evidence [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] to close the case do you know what I mean [speaker001:] yeah that shouldn't shouldn't happen but unfortunately it it can [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh I I'm in I think we're pretty much in agreement uh in Texas this death by injection seems about as civilized a way as you can do it I guess [speaker002:] well I don't think it's too uh productive to put someone in prison for a life time or like they say sometimes people get eight life sentences on top of each other [speaker001:] yeah and then get out in what [speaker002:] right and um then they're repeat offenders um I went to school with one of Ted Bundy's attacked girls [speaker001:] um hm [speaker002:] she was um older than me she was three years older but she went to the same high school as I did and we all knew when she was taken and he had been under suspicion and everything at that point [speaker001:] he killed her [speaker002:] and I think he killed her definitely uh-hum [speaker001:] oh my gosh well I was in the University of Texas years ago when one guy killed two girls in his room and hid the bodies in the field and every now that was in the sixties every now and then he comes up for parole it just scary that he could actually get back out [speaker002:] right um I think that in my belief I believe we uh I believe that if a person has killed then there really isn't much point to them going on anyway because they pretty much ruined what they came to earth to do you know what they're here to do to try to make life um the best that they can [speaker001:] um-hum what would you think about public executions [speaker002:] I definitely no I don't think so I don't think that that's something that we should try to get excited about watching like boxing or some sport I don't agree with that and I don't even think that they need to [speaker001:] televised [speaker002:] have more than just a couple people in there to make sure that it's done and it should be I think it should be done as painlessly and just done as nicely as it can be but I don't believe in keeping all these prisoners what do you think [speaker001:] hm uh if if it's death let's get it over and done with uh the appeal process should be speeded up quite quickly quite quickly they had this guy on the news that's been around since seventy six and he's cost us over four million dollars so far [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh let's speed it up be sure it's as close to being accurate as possible and get it over and done with on the other hand it may not be capital punishment if you committed armed robbery and get caught you shouldn't be out you shouldn't serve one day and get credit for five or or ten days uh that maybe off the subject but uh [speaker002:] oh I think that there should be capital punishment even for other things I think somebody that's caught selling drugs [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] if that shouldn't be capital punishment but if they're the high ones that are making these drugs and importing them I think that you could consider that because in essence they're taking lives [speaker001:] um-hum oh I'd I I'd go with the ones on the street corner [speaker002:] because people are thinking you know what am I going to get five years if I'm caught so what's the big deal [speaker001:] no yeah start at the bottom start pushing the ones on the street corner they'll run out of supplies [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] I'm I'm cruel on that drugs have no place at all [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and um so I I I think that it could go even farther than [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I think that I don't know it's hard you don't want to be so mean that you're you're doing away with people that have a chance to change but then I you look at the reports of people that are in prison and they act like they're reformed and then they get out and they repeat repeat these offenses [speaker001:] right fairly quickly [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] fairly quickly I don't have uh you know we're in so much agreement I guess I'm try to play the devil's advocate [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] yeah as a Christian I can't even be the devil's advocate I'm a Christian and I still think there's an appropriate place for it [speaker002:] that's yeah I'm I'm a Christian also and that's why you get in the situation where um it says how I believe but if a person's committed murder that's an unpardonable sin [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] and so why should we pardon something that we don't believe our our Lord uh God is pardoning do you know what I mean [speaker001:] um um-hum yeah I can go along with that I just wish we could get get uh debate going here to get some verbal usage for the computer uh I have a brother-in-law that is strictly opposed to it and uh he is a uh very liberal uh believer in uh probation uh and convicts not being sent to prison but being sent to uh halfway houses

[speaker001:] some of the the more recent uh changes that I've noticed in society is I guess over the last ten to twenty years or maybe the technological advances you know ten to twenty years ago there wasn't a VCR in every home and there wasn't uh [speaker002:] oh I know the remote control was a great big box that was connected to the back of the TV [speaker001:] some some of the uh that's true yeah and the old remote controls that were all by sound and you could drop a coin or clang some dishes and turn off the TV or change channels and all the things that have changed over the years [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but along with that I unfortunately I guess there's been a down side to a lot of that stuff I mean another three or four years you're going to have a land fill full of VCR's that and the parts and things that don't work and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] a lot of those things just don't go away and uh I guess the environmentalists have done their jobs that ten to twenty years ago I didn't think of it that much I knew about all the the uh organizations that tried to do that for a living you know let you know what what environmental impact was but just kind of recently uh the world's waking up to that so that's a change that's come along [speaker002:] yeah you got to well let's see you I guess you grew up in the you were a teenager in the seventies right okay did you go to like Woodstock and all that [speaker001:] yeah yeah no no never got around as it were but I uh I paid attention to it all being there so that that has changed people are uh I think the the outspoken people people who make a difference and make a change that age has come down it seems like uh you can make a difference at a younger age these days you don't have to be a an older part of the establishment to make waves [speaker002:] no like that one little girl that wrote who did she write oh I think she was in some kind of a airplane crash seem like it was an eleven year old girl wrote Gorbachev Gorbachev or Noriega or someone [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] I thought that was a lot [speaker001:] it's true they can uh they can make quite a difference at no matter what the age nowadays plus there seems to be uh uh there's a few negative changes that have come along I was just thinking last night how different uh my kids' childhood is from uh when I grew up I I was allowed pretty much a free rein around my house to ride my bike uh you know all several blocks away even at the age of of ten or eleven years old I could ride [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] a couple of miles away I'd ride to school you know and it was it was right at two miles away from the house [speaker002:] uh-huh but it's just not safe anymore [speaker001:] whereas here uh yeah I won't let them go you know more than a block out of my sight there I'm just a little too paranoid these days with what's going on and uh [speaker002:] hum-um um-hum [speaker001:] yeah we get you know reports from the police will give us warnings about this neighborhood and some activity that's occurring there and then you know occasionally it works its way around to our neighborhood and we have to keep a real close rein on them won't even let them go out of our sight for a while and then [speaker002:] uh-huh how [speaker001:] after they catch that guy you know you can let him go out for a while but it's uh it's kind of sad [speaker002:] well how old are your kids [speaker001:] I've got a nine year old and a seven year old and uh they both like to ride their bikes off into never never land and you know be [speaker002:] okay right well we used to ride around well I guess it would be a city block [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] my mom didn't mind I wouldn't dream of letting my little boy take off [speaker001:] yeah I used to uh I grew up in kind of a good combination of between the country and the city [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh in East Texas and I had while we were in town we'd ride several miles away like to school and the like but when we were in the country we would ride ten twelve miles away we'd spend a whole day just two or three of us get together and take a lunch and go ride somewhere and eat lunch and come back and you know as long as we told the parents what roads we were going to be on and if there any [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] trouble was they could come find us but uh can't do that now just no safe place to let your kid go that long and of course it probably wasn't that good of an idea back then either it just uh [speaker002:] hum-um well no but back even when I was growing up it wasn't drugs wasn't as now drugs was pretty bad but they weren't near as bad as they are now [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and this child abuse wasn't as bad as it is now either [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and there's uh so many missing kids [speaker001:] you know they they're saying that the uh uh the education is going to be enough or at least a major part of the drug deterrment and though I remember when I was in school they had a a drug awareness week type deal that we studied in the science classes and we got little posters and we did all sorts of stuff but that was nothing compared to the you know campaigns that are going on now but I guess it's just the the class of people or the area that we're in but I I'm not in contact with any kids that think it's it's it's it's a positive thing to do I mean it is it is really looked down upon even to the point of smoking I mean that kids are so ingrained [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that they look down on them we have to tell them you know don't say anything in public to a stranger about his smoking you know not not quite that's not quite accepted yet now if he's in a nonsmoking area you might want to say something but [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] they uh they're so outspoken on the topic that uh it's an interesting change in attitudes [speaker002:] yeah that is because [speaker001:] there's coming coming along with the education [speaker002:] even in my time smoking was just cool [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] all the cool people did it [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] went outside but my stepdaughter's getting like that and that's pretty hard because her granny smokes and we smoke so it [speaker001:] yeah it won't take but a like uh maybe generation or so before it uh it it no longer the cool thing to do I don't know [speaker002:] oh yeah have a smoke free [speaker001:] hopefully hopefully we can get away from it yeah [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] it's quite an expense too now they keep deciding that's the thing to tax [speaker002:] yeah they do it's what about two dollars a pack now [speaker001:] yeah it keeps going up and up well I guess there's uh it's I don't know of any other major changes other than the political environment course that things are no longer the cold war scares and the things that are going on that realm and Russia's no longer the major enemy and [speaker002:] well who is the major enemy now [speaker001:] I I don't know if there is one one easy one to uh to pick that's part of the problem [speaker002:] I don't when I was growing up I was scared of Red China [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] now everybody told me that they had the biggest Army in the world which I guess they still do because [speaker001:] they probably still do as far as humans go [speaker002:] yeah because China's real densely populated unless they [speaker001:] of course there you wouldn't be able to go over and attack them but I don't know that they'd be able to go anywhere and attack us they can't get all those people across the sea they don't have the ships to get them anywhere so they may have a huge army but it's going to stay put [speaker002:] yeah hm [speaker001:] uh it's kind of an interesting uh interesting problem not having any one enemy to focus on as a society tends to uh let that go out of the mind you're no longer concerned with the the weapon systems and the the defense area so now that Russia's gone as a major focused on enemy uh that whole defense issue is just not quite as important to people's lives so that's an an interesting social change I guess [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] course it'll surprise them some day when when all the hostilities start back up and some people aren't prepared for it so [speaker002:] oh I don't think anybody was prepared for this last war

[speaker001:] hello [speaker002:] hi [speaker001:] hi my name is Leslie [speaker002:] hi I'm Jennifer [speaker001:] and where are you from [speaker002:] Pennsylvania [speaker001:] oh nice I'm from Dallas Texas [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah so [speaker002:] oh that's neat [speaker001:] well did you understand what this was for you know what it was for what we [speaker002:] um television shows sure that sounds good [speaker001:] yeah okay I I don't watch too many but we can try it are you ready to start okay just a minute [speaker002:] okay sure am okay I guess we're recording now [speaker001:] yeah okay [speaker002:] what are your favorite television shows [speaker001:] well I don't really watch too many TV shows other than uh occasionally I'll I'll turn on Donahue because it comes on in the morning when I seem to be getting ready around here [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and uh so if if there's no one else around you know it's just me and I have a chance to listen to something I'll turn that on but uh just for the for the conversation factor I think but and then I think I enjoy when I catch it I don't even know what night it's on but Designing Women sometimes [speaker002:] oh I love that show yes that is great [speaker001:] yeah do you yeah it's fun and then there's a new one that started out that I've caught occasionally a couple of times called Good and Evil I think [speaker002:] oh I heard they just canceled that I read in today's paper they just canceled that show [speaker001:] oh really it is a real different one it's um it's it's different I guess I watch it more out of the uniqueness of it and the time that it comes on more than the fact that I have to see it but [speaker002:] have you seen the show it's it's new this year called Home Front [speaker001:] no I haven't watched that [speaker002:] oh it's it's really good it's um I think it's on like Tuesday nights from ten to eleven and it's set in post World War Two times [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's about how the servicemen come home and readjust to civilian life here and the changes everyone's going through it's really interesting [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] it's kind of like a soap a nighttime soap opera type thing [speaker001:] sounds neat [speaker002:] it is it's a good it's really well written [speaker001:] is that on what channel what station [speaker002:] um I don't even know to tell you the truth [speaker001:] oh okay what other shows do you like [speaker002:] um I prefer Oprah Winfrey to Donahue [speaker001:] oh yeah well she comes on later and I usually have kids around so I don't end end up watching that one is the only problem I have with it I guess [speaker002:] oh oh I did watch soap operas but I work full-time now and can't catch those anymore [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] except when I'm home sick and now when I watch them I think why did I ever watch those [speaker001:] that's right yeah [speaker002:] they're stupid so when I did watch them I was addicted to them every day [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but not anymore [speaker001:] that can happen so do you know of any other shows in the evening or something that you enjoy [speaker002:] oh um tonight I'm looking forward to seeing Golden Girls [speaker001:] oh that's always fun [speaker002:] yes I like that show [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and if I can stay up late enough I like to catch Saturday Night Live every now and then [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] and right now we're watching a Penn State football game because that's where we live [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it's exciting we're winning so that's really exciting [speaker001:] yeah well I think I also course like to catch the news during the evening hours but uh it's a little tough because that's when I'm usually making dinner and the kids are wanting to talk all at the same time so usually I don't get a whole lot of news watching in [speaker002:] um-hum yes we watch CNN in the morning while we're getting ready [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] for the day and eating breakfast we'll catch our news that way watch the weather channel so that we know what the weather's going to be like [speaker001:] yeah yeah so what have you seen interesting on Oprah Winfrey lately [speaker002:] lately I haven't been catching it because of my work schedule um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I can't remember the last time I saw it it's been a while [speaker001:] yeah well I don't know if we've talked our full three minutes or not [speaker002:] I don't know sometimes they come on and and say [speaker001:] oh that's right [speaker002:] well today on CNN they were talking about something like this about um learning to recognize voices and words and stuff and the research that's going on which is kind of what we're doing helping them get a database for words [speaker001:] hm yeah [speaker002:] it's really interesting [speaker001:] it is interesting [speaker002:] do you work for Texas Instruments [speaker001:] so uh no no just uh doing this as a fund-raiser for our church [speaker002:] oh that's nice [speaker001:] yeah so it kind of makes it easy you know to do a little something for it [speaker002:] sure because we uh we've talked to a lot of people from Texas it seems so we thought well maybe they work from for Dallas

[speaker001:] school teacher or do you have anything to do with anything in schools or [speaker002:] no I don't no [speaker001:] no huh [speaker002:] not that really much exposure in the in the recent past either how about yourself [speaker001:] no uh not a lot I've got a couple of friends that work uh as teachers or you know in in different school districts and different things but uh [speaker002:] um-hum and do you have any children [speaker001:] I I have a daughter that's only eighteen months though so we haven't got exposed too much to that but [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] you can sure see where it seems like uh there's a lot of concern for everything going downhill and they blame a lot of it on education I I kind of wonder I don't know if you blame the system or if you blame the kids and the parents for not studying or making the kids study hard enough or exactly what [speaker002:] yeah yeah I think it's probably a combination you know I think probably parents expect a lot more out of the school system than it's realistic that that the school system can provide [speaker001:] um-hum for them to get uh-huh [speaker002:] and in conjunction a lot of um school districts' funds have been cut because of at least in California that's the case it's probably the case elsewhere too [speaker001:] sure yeah well they've been cut yeah I just it seems like more and more with uh more families having to resort to you know to two incomes and stuff there's not the time that they spend and so they like you say they expect the the schools to do more of it but hell there's only so many in hours a day [speaker002:] I don't even know if it's just because um people are working you know both parents are working outside the home as much as it it's a matter of [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well it's kind of a philosophical philosophical expectation about who's responsible for discipline you know it's [speaker001:] oh you know I think that's a good point it's really a good point [speaker002:] it you know you you could be working full time and um still be able to work with your child and provide some guidance at home and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] in terms of homework as well as the the you know discipline for what's important in terms of values and I think that's probably something that not as many kids get I mean just I guess [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] I say that because you see it reflected in the society at large there are a lot of kids out there who seem more troubled today than they used to be [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I uh you know it seems like I remember on school nights you know I was never outside past eight you know maybe nine o'clock at the very latest whether I was in doing homework or not you know I may not have been but yet there was that influence in the home to where I was at least you know getting prepared for the next day or whatever and and you're you know you're right in saying you don't see a lot of that there's out running around and uh doing a lot of different things that [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum maybe TV's a bigger um [speaker001:] yeah TV and Nintendo [speaker002:] competitor for their time [speaker001:] yeah that's probably true there's a lot more uh [speaker002:] and when we were kids [speaker001:] yeah that's true I know you know I didn't appreciate I I was you know fortunate to where I could I kind of breezed through high school without too much problem stuff and and didn't really learn how to study that much until I hit college [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but boy I sure wish now that I had picked that up earlier because you know took me a couple of years in college before I really started getting the grades going and you know it affects your whole life especially when you hit college if you don't you know do as well as you can it can it can follow you for quite a while so [speaker002:] yeah that's a good point just learning the discipline to to to study [speaker001:] yeah to sit and study and I don't know it's it's you know I only have the the one daughter and she's quite young but it makes you a little nervous to know what they have to deal with you know in the future and get prepared for them but [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum well probably having gone through that experience you'll be likely to want to speak speak with her uh teachers and really try to communicate with them to find out what it is that you can do to help her at home [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum do you have any children at all or [speaker002:] our daughter's two so I'm in sort of in the same boat that you are [speaker001:] oh yeah same boat yeah have you uh have you ever considered private schools at all or [speaker002:] well you know we're coming up on the time she's probably going to be ready for she's in a day care situation now because my husband and I both work full time but um [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] I think she'll probably be ready for preschool around three or three and a half and after that time we really do need to think about it because in San Francisco in our neighborhood there's actually a good public schools at the elementary grade there's not a really decent middle school or high school I'm not sure we'll be in the same area when she's that old but um [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I have to really do the research to find out whether or not the public schools stand up to the private schools and what the costs are and all that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's really the the expense is a real issue when you think about [speaker001:] yeah that's true that's true yeah I I am I like a lot of the times you know I think the social aspect can be maybe as important and in a lot of ways as the education they get uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] sometimes I wonder if they can get that same thing in a in a private high school or [speaker002:] well I don't know how it is in your community I know that um [speaker001:] or not [speaker002:] in some communities of San Francisco the public schools well actually it's not so much in the city actually it's outside more in the east Oakland or east bay [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um the public schools are so poor that the private schools have just really grown as a response to the fact that the parents don't feel that they're getting getting what they want in the public schools so they're almost like public [speaker001:] um-hum

[speaker001:] Okay, basically I can tell you that I like just about every music there is except for, uh, uh, real hard, hard rock, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I really can't get into that but [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I go from classical all the way to, uh, jazz and country and [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, soft pop, uh, so I pretty much have a, a wide range of, uh, what I like, and [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] just, there isn't any particular music that I enjoy more than just listening to all kinds [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] so that's about it. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I can even take the now, it's, it's pretty neat music [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] that they came out with, so. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I'm pretty much the same way, but there's like certain types of country western I can't handle [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that twangy stuff, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] sure, the old, old stuff that came out, I think it was, was it, oh, jeez, came out with some of that, Hank Williams, you talk about twangy. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] My in-laws listen to the kind of music I hate [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, the old, old country, [speaker002:] The old, real old, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But other than that, I like pretty much everything. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, that's the way I am, too, so, other than, uh, as far as instruments, I can go from piano to the saxophone. Lately, you know, with the new music that has come out, some of the really good, uh, music [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] they have the saxophone playing, and it's so funny, because you can take an instrument and forget what it really sounds like when it plays by itself. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Talking to daughter] Oops, are you okay, Tiana, come here honey. [Resumes talking to caller] Oh, my daughter just fell. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Do you like Kenny G? [speaker001:] Uh, yeah, a little bit. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I can, I can pretty much, [talking to daughter] Oh, it's all wet, Tiana. [Resumes talking to caller] I just wiped, uh, did the floor, and she slipped. [speaker002:] On, no. [speaker001:] Anyway, but, uh, um, yeah, I can take all kinds of music pretty much [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] except for when you get, like I said, into the real hard rock, [speaker002:] Yeah, the heavy metal, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I have no interest in that, I, I don't have interest of losing my ears, let's just put it that way, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] hearing, anyway, [speaker002:] Yeah, I saw Peter Townsend on T V last night, and he said he's lost most of his hearing [speaker001:] Uh-huh, sure. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] and I thought, no wonder [LAUGHTER] so. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, exactly. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] [Child talking] Okay, well it was good talking to you then. [speaker002:] Well, same here. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] You all have a good day. [speaker001:] You, too. [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye now.

[speaker001:] all right well on this subject I really hadn't had to deal with putting someone in there yet but my mother's always been administrator of a nursing home so I've always been involved you know in one [speaker002:] uh-huh how do you feel about them I mean since you've kind of been close to that [speaker001:] well I've yes well I can kind of see both sides you know I really can um nursing homes to me I I would personally be the last resort you know I really you know if I had to put someone in there [speaker002:] uh-huh well I've had a touch of experience my um dad had emphysema and got to the point where mother couldn't take care of him [speaker001:] yeah if it's a have to thing yeah I yeah [speaker002:] and uh she put him in but he wasn't there very long before he died but [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um I guess um the one time that I saw him there you know as far as the surroundings that seemed okay [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but um we kind of thought that maybe they just wanted to give him some medication to sort of you know keep him real out of it all the time and that's always kind of bothered me [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh yeah well I kind of think that's true too I guess because it's so under staffed you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that's like everything else though [speaker002:] I have a sister-in-law who runs a nursing home but I've never actually been there and I know that she's the kind of person who wouldn't allow you know a lot of the horror things to take place that you hear about [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yes but yeah [speaker002:] but still I'm sure there are you know aspects to it that aren't really desirable [speaker001:] yeah yeah I know because I've always well my sister's involved in one also and I really think they really do a wonderful job but still there's those little things that happens you know there really is which I think it's a wonderful place you know if it comes to that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know if you just can't take care of them any more [speaker002:] well sometimes you don't have any other alternative after all family and friends are usually well family's tied up with [speaker001:] uh-huh that's it yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] their own lives and things and usually working and [speaker001:] other things yeah yeah yeah but I think when the time comes I I hope to have the time to really look around you know and pick one that I really think my mother would be happy at [speaker002:] it's hard to yes um-hum I think that's important too in fact there's a [speaker001:] not just I do too outside's awful deceiving sometimes [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] there's one uh close to where my mother is but in order to get in you have to be able to um walk in on your own in other words you can't be in you know too bad a shape to start out with but then if you deteriorate um [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] they have a separate section for those who need care you know all the time [speaker001:] cares yeah yeah [speaker002:] but it's always well and they have a long waiting list too so there's always this feeling of well golly gee you know you've got to be able to walk in the door so you can't wait until you're too bad off [speaker001:] off yeah [speaker002:] but then you don't want to go do that when you don't have to because like uh you have to give up your automobile or whatever [speaker001:] to oh um-hum and everything you worked for so hard for all your life yeah [speaker002:] yeah and if you're still capable of driving and doing those things then you feel like well gee I'm you know I'm isolating myself here for no reason at the moment [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] so it's kind of a that's a hard one but it is a very nice nursing home [speaker001:] now there is some really nice ones there's also you know some private ones you know [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but of course I would never be able to afford to put my parents in something like that you know that's way out of my reach [speaker002:] yeah that's the problem the expense of it all is and uh what I another thing I hate to see is when someone has a small amount of money and they go into one of these places and they just eat it all up immediately [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] but those who don't have money can go in and get the same care [speaker001:] uh-huh the very same yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know so I don't like that aspect [speaker001:] yeah but I there's I think there's ways around it though that you know like they could put it in one of their children's names or something [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know but still a lot of them doesn't feel comfortable doing that you know it's their money [speaker002:] this is that's right [speaker001:] you know that's how I feel about it anyway [speaker002:] well yeah I've talked to my mother about that several times lately and I I said I want you to have control of your own business [speaker001:] yes yeah [speaker002:] but you know what if [speaker001:] yeah my mother's seventy now so naturally she's retired but she's still on her own I mean you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah my mother's uh seventy five and still has her own home and everything [speaker001:] yeah I think that's wonderful I really do just as long as they can and then on the other hand I've seen some people go into the nursing home and just so happy you know [speaker002:] yeah that's true they have a lot of people around to do things with some of those places have wonderful activities and things [speaker001:] uh-huh they're not lonely [speaker002:] you know lots of stuff going on and they'll take them places and [speaker001:] oh yes uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] so I don't know it's not all bad but I guess once you get ill then you know you really [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] have some problems if you can't get around and do things [speaker001:] around yeah but I really don't know what the other solution would be you know I really don't [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] But no when the time comes I'm really hopefully we'll really look around before I decide on one for my parents [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] really do because I have been raised in one you know so there's lot of things I know to look for [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I don't think they'd want to go where they used to work either you know I really don't it really would yes [speaker002:] yeah that might be kind of tough huh [speaker001:] yes and like like I said my sister's still in it and I really don't think my mother want to be there either [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] well it's been nice talking to you and I guess we'd better get back to work huh all right bye-bye [speaker002:] well you too okay bye

[speaker001:] uh did you watch the Bulls this morning [speaker002:] you know what I watched a little bit of uh of the Bulls game and I uh had to leave um in fact I I think the Bulls were ahead when I uh when I left who won the game [speaker001:] they won in a squeaker they won by they won by two points uh they were behind as they headed into each quarter and then they came back in the second half and at the end I think they were [speaker002:] is that right [speaker001:] uh looked they looked like they were closing it out and then Detroit kept coming back and uh Isaiah missed a three point attempt at the end and uh I think the Bulls won by two [speaker002:] uh-huh wow they've got the don't they have the best record now [speaker001:] I think they do as a matter of fact one of the uh commentators said that they expected that the Bulls would uh if they continued at their current pace uh set an NBA record for seventy wins in a season [speaker002:] yeah wow [speaker001:] yeah they looked real good and [speaker002:] they they do and they uh you know I think by uh by relieving some of the pressure off of uh of uh uh Michael Jordan really helped them out you know he doesn't have they don't have to rely on him to score every you know thirty or forty points at every at every game so [speaker001:] right yeah well they they're they're balancing their attack and I think they look like uh they'll repeat although uh here in the Bay Area people are real impressed with what Don Nelson's done with the Warriors [speaker002:] oh I know I'm yeah I saw the Warriors I saw the Warriors uh just a little bit of the highlights of the Warriors uh Dallas game [speaker001:] I saw the the second half of the game last night and they were impressive [speaker002:] they look good [speaker001:] Billy Owens looks like he was that was a good move for the Warriors to trade for him [speaker002:] yeah now I don't uh I haven't kept up with what was going on with uh with the Warriors [speaker001:] well they traded away uh Mitch Richmond or is it Tim Hardaway one of the two uh who along with uh Chris Mullin was you know though three were three of the best in the NBA and and they made a heck of a threesome and they traded either Richmond or Hardaway to Sacramento for Billy Owens and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh good move [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah he's really worked out well they've got the the Warriors have got a team uh and uh I think that'll be real interesting to see what they can do they're ahead and the Lakers are down I guess in fourth uh position in the west and I don't know in the east I don't know uh is it Boston in uh first place [speaker002:] yeah uh I think Boston's in first um I you know I haven't kept up with any of the other uh teams uh I'm so depressed with the Dallas Mavericks you know [speaker001:] boy they've had a hard time they said they've lost a lot of squeakers [speaker002:] oh man that well yeah but I mean just this whole year has been just disastrous for them and uh you know they're going I I think they're going for an all time record of how many losses you know losses in a row they can they can they can uh pull out it's unbelievable [speaker001:] yeah how do people in Texas deal with Dallas Houston and San Antonio do you for example like San Antonio uh in Dallas [speaker002:] uh actually actually the the the Dallas area here uh pulls for Dallas uh San Antonio pulls for San Antonio and Houston pulls for for the Rockets [speaker001:] so there isn't much crossover huh you [speaker002:] they're really I mean not a whole lot you know I mean you find them they're find them be to be pretty loyal uh you know with with the local teams [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um you know it's kind of I guess it's kind of like uh there in the Bay area you know you don't find a whole lot of uh uh of Sacramento fans [speaker001:] yeah it's true because San San Antonio isn't that close to you are they [speaker002:] really isn't huh-uh it's you know it's it's about the same uh same distance from here to San to San Antonio as it is from there to Sacramento so it's yeah it's not really a local you know [speaker001:] no is it yeah so it's not something you'd drive yeah I was thinking maybe David Robinson made a bit of a difference with kids and that sort of thing [speaker002:] um he does a lot of local stuff there in San Antonio and they I mean they have got a great club you know [speaker001:] they've done a good job I mean of course drafting a franchise like him certainly [speaker002:] uh yeah yeah that always makes a big difference so [speaker001:] yeah I mean that's I think the way it uh I think that's the way it works now in basketball you you know Magic was a franchise for the Lakers and you know uh Bird for the for the uh Celtics and [speaker002:] yeah and you know uh you know I used to think that that one one player really doesn't make the club but it really does you know you get somebody like Magic and you can see the decline of that team [speaker001:] well it it's Steve well yeah I [speaker002:] once he left you know I mean it's it's just not the same uh it's not the same team there's not the leadership there that they used to rely on him for [speaker001:] well I think you're right and I think Isaiah Thomas would fit in Detroit and I think those things do make a difference and there are marquee players and I think I think Jordan and the and the Bulls have to be [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] uh considered the likely favorites I don't know who would meet them in the west um I don't know how good Portland will turn out to be by the end of the year they were so disappointing [speaker002:] who won that Portland game [speaker001:] you know I wasn't I I didn't I watched only a few minutes of it and I wasn't paying attention uh so I don't know uh but Phoenix you know Phoenix and Portland have both been very good clubs and [speaker002:] uh

[speaker001:] Well, my family moved to Texas about eight years ago. My husband was raised here, by I, I have never lived here, so, um, when we came back to Texas, I was really kind of excited. There wasn't a state income tax and there wasn't a tax on food that we purchased at the, the grocery store and things. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] And all of that was new to me, because I'm sort of feeling like we're getting a better deal here [LAUGHTER], than what I was accustomed to. [speaker002:] Yeah. Did you move from the Northeast? [speaker001:] Well, I lived in Missouri and then in Utah and them, um, both places had pretty good state income tax. And, um, we've always paid tax, you know, on everything we purchased, even food at the grocery store. So, I thought it was really, you know, kind of a pretty good deal not to have to pay tax on your groceries and, but, I think, I mean, I don't enjoy paying taxes. And it's hard, but, um, I think that is what we have to have, you know, have our streets and have, have our government and [throat clearing]. Excuse me. And have, and have the services that we need and we have to pay for them and pay for the employment of the people that run them and, and things like that and I think, I guess, what I feel is that most people, um, they don't like to pay taxes because they feel like there's some people that aren't paying their fair share. [speaker002:] Yeah. I think, yeah. [speaker001:] And, um, that makes you feel bad. [speaker002:] People that can really influence the government have all the money to throw. [speaker001:] Right. And you know, when, um, when last year the elections were going, on the governors election and state and, you know. I, I didn't have anything against Clayton Williams personally or anything, but, um, it was kind of hard for me to think, here's someone as wealthy as he is, didn't have to pay any income tax. That he said that year, he claimed, he had, he didn't have to pay income tax and he thought, you know, there's some people are living pretty, pretty good life styles, but they're not paying income tax. And that's not fair, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] to me. And there's, you know, some people, you know, who are abusing the systems that we pay taxes to support and all that makes us feel bad. But I think, all in all, how I feel, is that, um, I'm willing to pay the taxes because I think I like our country compared to the other countries I've studied and visited. And I'm willing to pay extra to live here and to enjoy the services that I enjoy. How do you feel? [speaker002:] Well, yeah. I agree that you have to pay taxes for the services you get and, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] and I think that, you know, I don't think that there's any really, any system that everybody would think is fair, as far as, being taxed. [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] So, I guess, in Texas with, we live here also, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] and that it's mostly sales tax, so it's, really the people that have money to buy things are paying the more because they're paying the sales tax on the larger items that they buy and stuff. [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] I've lived in Texas most of my life. We, um, lived in Kansas City for a couple of years, and we were kind of in for a rude awakening. They had personal property taxes on like cars and, the first year we were there it was kind of like, eight hundred dollars, [speaker001:] Oh, no. [speaker002:] And we're like. My husband says I used to complain to pay sixty dollars to get licensed in Texas and now, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] you know, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] So, I mean, that was kind of different and then to file a, a state income tax, was also kind of tough, too. I guess, since we've been married, we've moved a lot, so it always seems like, you know, we're always paying taxes for something. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And it was kind of nice this year to finally be able to get a little money back. But, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] I, um, have a accounting background, so I then, have also done tax returns in the past for other people when I worked for an accounting firm. [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] And, uh, you know, it is kind of sad to see how the people that have the resources to hire somebody and have the money to spend to put there money in places, they don't have to pay taxes. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Or to buy something that loses money so that they can offset the income that they get or whatever. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, you know, I think, if, I can understand why the rich people don't want to pay, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] you know, a large, large percent because, you know, that's not really fair, either. If they've earned money by themselves, well, you know, people just kind of given the money, [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] it's kind of depressing sometimes, I think. [speaker001:] Well, it is, and sometimes, I think, um, well, for myself, that income that we have, we pay a certain salary, but, I think the employer keeps in mind this will be deducted, you know, so, so many taxes will be deducted from it and so, I think, you know, our salaries are a little bit higher because we have to pay taxes on it. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And so, I think, you know, in that way, we're compensated, um, just by our society. Um, yet, you know, they don't pay you, um, what, just what it would take, and if you pay taxes on it, you wouldn't have any money left over. And, and, um, but some of the people that make a great deal of money and everything I wish that they would, I guess, because I'm not one of them [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Well, yeah, that's true [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I wish that they would, you know, realize that they, they couldn't make this kind of money, they couldn't live that kind of life style anywhere else. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] In that, even if they made that kind of money, there's some countries that have like, fifty percent income tax, you know, that have, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] socialized medicines and things that, they, um, they wouldn't be able to enjoy the in that. So that, you know, they need to be willing to pay a little bit more for it. Yes, they've earned it. And yes, they have such great fortune here, but they need to pay for it, too, because they couldn't do it somewhere else. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Um, I like Texas, um, not having the state income tax and I hope that because, um, we've had enough industry here, that, I guess it, is that why we don't have industry here is able to, to fund the state because we have oil here and things, I mean, that's what I've always heard. Is that, um, [speaker002:] They must have enough other stuff because the way the oil has been the last few years, that, that really has not been, [speaker001:] Big boom. [speaker002:] the industry that is bringing in the money for the taxes, I wouldn't think. [speaker001:] Yeah. There's something about, um, the industry in the state, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That, um, there's enough. I know, we moved here from Houston and the city had enough money. It was really nice that they had, um, that they began to cut back because of the oil problems, but, um, they would have, um, so many community outdoor theaters and, [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] And like, uh, community country club type things. That the, it was such nice services to offer the residents in the city and I really liked that. [speaker002:] Don't you have to, why people decided to expect certain services, [speaker001:] Huh-uh. [speaker002:] Then, they don't really think they should pay for them, maybe. I don't know. [speaker001:] Yeah. That's true. And I, you know, like the property tax that we pay is so much higher than my parents pay in Missouri. But, um, I'm, I'm comfortable at least in this year, with, with, we have some good schools. The school thing might be changing but, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I'm willing to pay for that for my children. And I'm willing to sacrifice, I guess. I'm not going to be the type of person that's going to grumble about the taxes, even though we're paying a pretty high percentage. I feel like you get what you pay for and I want to be here and I enjoy, I enjoy living here in this country and having seen other countries, I'd much rather live here and pay taxes, [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] than live somewhere else and not [LAUGHTER]. Anyway, well, I guess, I better let you go. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, it was nice talking to you. [speaker001:] Yeah, it was nice. [speaker002:] I haven't ever, I need, I've never initiated one of these phone calls. Do you call in do you get to pick the subject or, [speaker001:] No. No. They just define it to you and so, [speaker002:] Oh. I see. [speaker001:] you get what, uh, get luck of the draw but, [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, anyway, well, good luck to you. [speaker002:] Okay, you, too. [speaker001:] Bye. [speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] I think that, uh, one, uh, advantage of having, uh, the unanimous verdict is that in a criminal case you want to make sure that you don't, uh, convict someone who, uh, really shouldn't be convicted. [speaker002:] Definitely. [speaker001:] Um, and I think that, you know, a unanimous verdict, uh, helps to ensure that. I guess maybe one drawback of it is that if you have one juror who is very unreasonable in some way, that, uh, you, uh, would have a problem, uh, you know, that you wouldn't convict someone who maybe should be convicted. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Have you ever served on a jury before? [speaker002:] Uh, I have twice. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] It was a pretty wild experience. [speaker001:] Uh, what sorts of cases were they? [speaker002:] They were just, you know, small time cases where, uh, trailers and banks were involved, you know. [speaker001:] So were they criminal or civil? [speaker002:] They were civil. They weren't [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] they weren't any criminal. [speaker001:] What, uh, what was the verdict? Did the, did the jury have trouble reaching a decision? [speaker002:] Uh, the jury, it was, uh, let me see, I think it was ten to one on the jury, because they only had to have eleven people [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] so it was, they, and, uh, the one changed his vote at the end. [speaker001:] So did it become? [speaker002:] So it became unanimous, you know, after they turned it in [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and then he changed his mind after they turned it in [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] but it then became unanimous. [speaker001:] Uh. But since it was a civil case it really didn't matter, right? You just needed a majority? [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] What was, what was the other case? That was also civil? [speaker002:] The, the other case was just traffic, the, and, you know, it was seat belt law [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and it, it didn't even hardly [speaker001:] Oh, didn't really even count. [speaker002:] go through, so. [speaker001:] Yeah. I'm, I'm a college student so I haven't been, you know, a jury eligible age for very long [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] um, and, uh, I did get one summons actually at one point, but I declined it which I'm able to do because I'm a student, because it was, uh, a very bad time. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, you learn a lot going to the juries like that though. [speaker001:] Yeah, I mean, I, I really, I would like to, uh, to do at some point, um, but, I, I haven't. Uh, one, one thing that I, I think is, um, you know, maybe is a problem is, uh, I, I think that the criminal jury system works pretty well now, but I wonder if maybe in some civil cases it doesn't work as well. Especially sort of. [speaker002:] I wouldn't think that it does [speaker001:] How, wha-, [speaker002:] I mean, from, from my, from what I experienced in them, it didn't, you know, it didn't turn out the way I planned it, I mean, the way that I would think that it would go. [speaker001:] Uh, you thought it turned out pretty well? [speaker002:] Yeah, but it was, you know, it was, jury was unorganized and it was, it was just wasn't organized enough for me. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'm not used to it not being organized, and I just assumed that it would have been. [speaker001:] Oh, so it was just kind of a zoo and the jurors just sort of, someone had to figure out what was going on? [speaker002:] That's about what it was. [speaker001:] Um. That's interesting. Did it, did it work out pretty well in the end? I mean, did a couple of people sort of gradually, sort of assume, uh, sort of a moderator role in the trial or, [speaker002:] Yeah, they, well they picked one person, and then he finally, you know, moderated everything and made it turn out the way it should have. [speaker001:] So it work-, it did end up working out pretty well? [speaker002:] Yeah, it ended up working all right. [speaker001:] The one thing I sometimes wonder about, um, in civil cases is, uh, whether, especially sort of in, uh, maybe like pro-, product liability, or medical malpractice, where there's, um, sort of a very technical decision to be made sometimes [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] you know, it's not just a matter of, um, of, you know, did this guy rip off this guy, and it's just a matter of interpreting a contract, it's sort of a matter of, um, you know, sometimes getting into very technical issues, and I wonder if, uh, if there's really, um, if the system works adequately in, in educating the jurors about, uh, whatever, um, you know, issue is under discussion. [speaker002:] I, I don't think that they, they, they educate them enough to, to really know what's going on. [speaker001:] In, in the case you were involved in, you said it was just sort of a bank matter of some kind. So. [speaker002:] Yeah, the, the bank was suing them for, uh, because they went to get the, the trailer [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that, which was, uh, seemingly their property. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] It was on his property. [speaker001:] Oh, so the deal was that he had, uh, borrowed money from the bank to buy it, and [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] he hadn't made the payments. [speaker002:] So they came to get it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And then when they came to get it, well, it was on the landlord's property and he wouldn't let them take it off. [speaker001:] Uh, so they were suing to get it back. [speaker002:] So, and they are, it was a double wide, so they'd already taken it apart. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] So they left it there [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and then when they came back to get it a couple of days later it had rained and got all in it. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] So they were suing him for the money, and, you know, there's no way they could because it, it was the moving company,

[speaker001:] well uh it seems to me that uh that I don't know whether the jury system uh I I shouldn't say I don't know I don't feel very uh stronger that the jury system should be changed it seems to have worked uh uh time immemorial and when uh difficult decisions uh are made uh uh uh they generally prove out to be right by things that occur later on uh I know in some cases now in some states depending on the criminal code [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh a unanimous verdict isn't required and indeed some juries are no longer twelve people they're down to as little small as six people in I think in petty in in uh in uh minor felonies and uh and misdemeanor trials [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um I think that the judges should be left to do most of the sentencing simply because uh there's always uh there's there's always a jury that might be swayed uh by the moment uh to either be too lenient or too vengeful I guess [speaker002:] yeah on the other hand uh attorney uh uh justices are more apt to uh understand you know the crime the prison crowding problems and things like that and have that sway their decisions one way or the other [speaker001:] yeah but I mean isn't that uh is that a reflection then of what's really happening in the real world if if if they keep giving everybody [speaker002:] you know uh [speaker001:] hundred year sentences and the people in various states it doesn't seem that people want to be taxed to build more prisons or even in for that matter uh repair the uh the lack of judges and and and other uh [speaker002:] yeah I think that's what's happening I think uh the judges are trying to save the people from having to the cost of new prisons they're [speaker001:] yeah you know that might be it I mean they they certainly [speaker002:] there saying oh well you know the the people can't afford it [speaker001:] I don't I don't know how it is in Virginia but in Florida now uh uh uh at eighteen years someone was just sentenced to eighteen years I heard on Today uh without any specific recommendation for uh uh uh uh uh uh uh waving the normal uh procedures and the eighteen years will uh translate into something like uh four point seven if every if the if the prisoner is a model prisoner and indeed the present overcrowding conditions uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] prevail plus I guess there was some credit for time this guy had already spent in jail waiting for trial [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so uh yeah you might be right about that I I I do not know it just seems to me that only about uh from what I read only about ninety percent of the cases only about ten percent of the cases come for trial anyway [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh only about uh four four four or five percent of uh in the in the very end or less than less than half the trials that go to uh uh less than half the cases that go to trial uh end up with with uh with the jury actually making the verdict [speaker002:] with a conviction oh okay [speaker001:] that most of it's plea bargained uh half way through or or uh most of the cases are plea bargained anyway [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but uh uh how do you feel about the about the jury system itself do you you think that should be changed or do do you know in Virginia whether it's if they have smaller juries or [speaker002:] um I don't know exactly what the size of the juries I know one of my friends was uh uh brought up for jury duty for and he only heard very you know piddly type cases [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] most of it was uh robberies or things like that you know it wasn't any serious crimes so apparently even for the smallest crimes they give the person the you know any felony anyways they they give the person the option for a jury [speaker001:] yeah well I guess we do yeah I guess we always focus on criminal trials with with the jury but I know you have a right to ask for a jury in in any sort of a case that even where damages are are are uh are are the results of some sort of a uh an action that you're bringing against someone else you can ask for that to be heard before a jury takes a heck of a long time I guess to get there [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] in some states I I I don't know uh I should imagine Virginia from what I read uh uh is like every other state it it's faced with uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh enormous costs to maintain the jury system and the prison system and the entire trial system because I guess everywhere I read that there's a shortage of judges [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] not that they won't appoint them but there's no budget for them I guess or [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] and the courthouse that goes with them and the bailiffs and the clerk uh or clerks [speaker002:] yeah whatever [speaker001:] so it seems uh no I I I don't think I'd change it the more I verbalize it I I don't think I'd want to change the system [speaker002:] right uh I don't think I would either [speaker001:] I don't know what we'd replace it with [speaker002:] yeah I know it uh does seem like the the the the purpose of getting people in jail so that you know the the I can't think of the word I'm looking for anyways the deterrent [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] for people to to commit the crime uh to not to commit the crime is sort of gone away people have I don't know they just don't care any more the benefit I guess of crime outweighs what the deterrent is you know people that [speaker001:] uh and yet there are there are so many there are so many people in prison I mean the prison population uh as far as I I uh you know my impression of it is that it's that it's doubled in the last ten years and tripled in the last twenty [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] I mean it so so I guess our population has grown some too but there there definitely is uh uh you know to me the one of the worst things that could ever happen uh from what I read and see and understand I mean I don't think I could handle prison [speaker002:] yeah well I'd be interested in finding out what the uh [speaker001:] I mean it was very difficult [speaker002:] percentage of drug related type things are and uh [speaker001:] well there must be a a a a a very great degree of that but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but there again I I don't know if the the jury system itself uh comes in to play there I would think that one of the things that sort of bothers me is the ability of course that it's a constitutional right that the press must have here is the the interviewing of jurors after the trial I mean that it seems to me that that that when a jury makes a decision they shouldn't be asked uh before television cameras and newspaper reporters how they reached that decision I mean I don't [speaker002:] huh right [speaker001:] I imagine there's a certain certain right of the press to have the ability to ask that but I I would think I if I did anything I'd protect the juror from from any sort of an inquisition after [speaker002:] um well I know uh on the other hand though when uh after the Barry trial up here you know that was a big local trial as well as national [speaker001:] yeah yeah oh yeah yeah well I do a lot of business up in Washington I was there during the during the trial actually yeah [speaker002:] yeah and the opposite was true of me uh after the case was over I was like somebody get ahold of these people and find out why in the world did they vote the way they did you know it was like well pictures isn't good enough we want to see I don't know what they wanted I mean [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker002:] they want the guy to I don't know I mean just because you feel like he was being kicked on which he certainly was you know I think uh no doubt in my mind the federal government picked him out and selected him to be prosecuted [speaker001:] oh I felt that way I felt I felt [speaker002:] but it doesn't matter the guy was obviously guilty [speaker001:] no but yeah I always balanced in the in the situation I remember the jurors uh I thought to myself how did how did they only I think they only found uh found him guilty on one count which was uh not even which was a class something felony which was not even punishable [speaker002:] one one count yeah [speaker001:] uh uh to the degree that they thought it but I don't know maybe when you're there in the room in the courtroom yourself and you're sitting there and you've got to make a judgment on somebody and the prosecutors do a lousy job or maybe the evidence was as sensational as the media presented it I mean I I'm not making excuses for [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] that might be it [speaker002:] well yeah I think we're getting [speaker001:] but I think I'm getting a call coming in [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] all right nice talking with you thank you [speaker002:] well it's been nice talking to you um-hum bye-bye

[speaker001:] all right do you have any uh strong feelings on schools [speaker002:] well um I think that uh the majority of the problem with the school system um is similar to the majority of the problem in a lot of other areas in it's a question of economics and the school system is not designed to be successful um by that uh it's not really profitable for good teachers to be in the school systems uh if there are good school teachers good really qualified people as school teachers it's because they're dedicated not because they're rewarded for doing so um the school the public school system uh needs to be viewed I think kind of like the highways and hospitals and everything else it's part of the infrastructure it's something that has to be and has to be you know highly highly maintained in order for the nation itself to be successful and when you um when you neglect part of the infrastructure be it the roads or the schools or whatever then everything kind of follows with that it's just a question of how long before you pay the price [speaker001:] I've I've uh heard heard the that proposed before and I'm not uh discounting it completely but the counter argument to that is that uh there are schools around that are uh private schools not necessarily uh parochial schools where the teachers are paid no more than they are in the public schools and they and their track records are much better [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] uh the uh in in fact these days there's a lot of uh there a lot of uh Catholic and other parochial schools around that are not staffed by nuns and and I'm not a Catholic so but I was just reading about this and what they were the the argument that I've heard is that uh and I subscribe to some of it by the way that uh our schools are reflecting the same kind of mismanagement that uh lead to the demise of the Soviet Union and that is when you've got an absolute monopoly and uh you can't uh you know it's a one party system so to speak then what you're going to have is gross inefficiencies and nobody cares and reality uh uh is just not a market base system and I know I've been in the Orient for about three years and the public schools are not very good but the all all of the good schools are private schools over there and uh it's not that we're spending I I think that we're spending a lot of money uh relatively speaking on schools but uh as with other things you know it like Detroit Detroit or some of the other problems uh with Detroit it's not the worker it's the uh it's the management [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] and uh management frankly just doesn't have to they don't have to compete these days [speaker002:] yeah I'd heard something as a matter of fact uh kind of along those lines with I think it was the New York school system where they suddenly instituted a sort of market system where um basically the kids were allowed to take whatever classes they wanted to and go to whatever school they wanted to and it was up to the schools to attract the kids um and offer stuff the kids wanted and what turned out happening this was like area of the country with the highest drop out rate and all this kind of stuff and what ended up happening is people didn't just take fun classes or anything like that uh it ended up that [speaker001:] yes yeah [speaker002:] uh the rate of of graduating students went way way up and they ended up taking real courses but it was because they wanted to and because they chose to instead of were being forced to and and the the people were forced to compete and and the good teachers were getting the students and that kind of stuff [speaker001:] yeah and and well I see that as a as what I consider the biggest problem uh as with with uh oh there there are other problems and number one it would be nice if if teachers got paid uh uh I I hate to see the how shall I say it the garbage the guys that collect garbage and and uh uh [speaker002:] sanitation engineers [speaker001:] yes you know well the sanitation engineers that go out there with uh and just lift uh I hate to see those guys get paid more than teachers [speaker002:] yeah and um-hum [speaker001:] and different teachers are uh under a lot more stress and don't get any tips at the end of the day at you know at Christmas time [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so uh uh from that standpoint and frankly the private school systems uh uh including colleges and things like that uh do quite well uh because there is a lot of competition [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and if somebody decides that they're going to if their decisions are out of step with reality uh pretty soon people don't stop going there [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh or they get a horrible reputation and they get this uh what do they call that uh

[speaker001:] Okay, we're rolling. I, uh, what, what would you, what would, has your experience lead you to advise, uh, if my child were thinking of going to the Air Force Academy, what would you say? [speaker002:] Well, I'd encourage it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It's a good general e-, ed-, education for a, a bachelor's degree. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And obviously, and obviously it's where they don't have a, any post graduate program there, but you get a, an excellent, wide, uh, basis of topics. You know, you get a good broad education out of it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You don't, they don't graduate the best engineers or the best English majors, but [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] maybe a graduate pretty good overall students out of there. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] How do you feel about, it must be a somewhat different environment from a regular college. How does that, uh, how do you feel that is for someone at, at that phase in their life? [speaker002:] Well, the [breathing] for some people, it's good because they maybe they need a little discipline, need a little reining in at that, that stage in their life. Uh, other people, it, uh, it's, uh, suffocating, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, you kind of choke on it [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, it, it depends on the person, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] on the individual, but, uh, the one factor I think more than anything else in this day and age that's got to be a big factor in your decision's just the, the cost of, how much you're going to pay [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] no matter where you go to school. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And if you've been in for twelve years, I'm sure you've, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] you've got a, your share of student loans that, uh, you're probably going to be paying off or have been or, [speaker001:] Well, I sort of, one of the reasons it's taken so long is I've been working all, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] sort of half student, half working and source of income and stuff, so I'm actually managing to do this with zero debt. [speaker002:] Oh, that's good. [speaker001:] Uh, I couldn't, you couldn't do it otherwise. [speaker002:] Oh, y-, I mean I know people that graduated, or that I went to high school with that went to civilian colleges and they, they've got twenty, thirty thousand dollar debts, I mean you could have, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, I think if there's any major piece of advice I'd give, is to find a way of getting an education that doesn't incur that kind of debt. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] It's not, I mean, I remember seeing an article one time about, you know, if the average person who spent that much money going to college just took the same amount of money and put it in a, a, in an investment fund, they'd be considerably wealthier than they would be from the [LAUGHTER] job they'd get after college. [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] So, it's, it's really kind of crazy. [speaker002:] It's, it's staggering when you think that, just here in central New York, is, uh, Hamilton College is just a few miles south of, you know, maybe about twenty miles to the south from where I am [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, they're looking for twenty-two thousand dollars for tuition and room and board now. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] A year. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] At just a small, I mean they, they, they are s-, it is a select, [speaker001:] Yes, yes, I know. [speaker002:] college. [speaker001:] I was actually, I th-, I was thinking of trying to get a job there [breathing]. I heard of it. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. But, you're talking incredible tuitions now. [speaker001:] Uh-uh. [speaker002:] I don't know how many people actually pay the whole shot. Very few I would imagine. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, I get, I just couldn't ima-, I mean it's more money that I make in a year, so [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] You know, it, you know, me being one person with a above the median income, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] for New York state, you know, I'm a s-, I'm a second lieutenant in the Air Force now, and, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, I, even as a somebody making twice what I was making, how could you put half of that into, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] to your child's education and then just when they make, made, make it to the college years it's, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] My God, I can't imagine. [speaker001:] Well, my, my real feeling about, about the purpose of undergraduate education is it's really the time, yes, you do get an education, you do learn some things, but you eventually forget most of it. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] But what you don't forget is the growing up. It's really the period when people become adults. I mean people who don't go to college become adults in other ways. But, really, it's the entry into adulthood, I think. And I think that the best way to choose a college is to decide what kind of environment you want to be fostered in as you become, you know, as you gain new social skills, as you become, you know, more of a functioning member of society. And maybe the Air Force Academy is a perfect, as you said for someone who, you know, a more, you know, who needs to learn self-discipline and so forth would be appropriate for them. [speaker002:] Or, it's also a good environment, it may be good for someone who already has self discipline, who has a certain amount of leadership quality in their own, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] that, [speaker001:] and want to develop that. [speaker002:] And, that, yeah, the s-, it's the same. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It can benefit different people different ways. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, you know, I, I agree with that, because I see people that I know f-, again, from high school, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that I still keep in touch with, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that didn't go to college and they do the same old things they did in high school and,*needs slash because following utt by B repeats utt of A; is not necessarily the intended end of this utt [speaker001:] The same patterns of behavior, you mean? [speaker002:] Same patterns of behavior, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] same, uh, same socializing, same exact crowd that they hang with and it's like, it's like frozen time, [LAUGHTER] you know. [speaker001:] Exactly, it's ki-, I find it kind of sad, I really do. [speaker002:] It is. It really is that they haven't found anything, anything better that, uh, or their, their experiences haven't been broadened at all, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] to, to you know, you know, it's, it's a, it's a tremendous thing when you sit in a, in a college environment and discuss some issues and really sit there with people with disagreeing opinions and you hear all these different sides of the story [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that you never thought of [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and, uh, that's another big thing I think people get out of college is the appreciation for different point, differing points of view, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, or different opinions. [speaker001:] Yeah, in high school everyone sort of tries to have the same opinion [LAUGHTER] it seems. [speaker002:] Yeah, exactly, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, the, the one thing I think that's no good for anyone is these monster institutions. These institutions of th-, thirty thousand students and such. [speaker002:] Oh I, [speaker001:] And I see some freshmen wandering around in there and they're [breathing], they're just like, you know, someone from the country lost in the big city, I mean, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] they, they, I don't see them getting, I mean when I was undergraduate, I went to a, relatively small school for my first two years and then I transferred to a very large school. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And that worked out pretty well. I went from a, you know, a second rate institution to a higher rate institution. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But the first couple of years it doesn't matter to me what the quality of the education was. I needed to make friends. I needed to sort of learn the ropes. You know, there were things like that, that mattered a lot more and I needed basic, really simple education that you can get, pretty much anywhere for the first couple of years. [speaker002:] Well, your education's a lot what you make of it, too, so, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, exactly. And if you're alienated, I mean I see people at supposedly really good universities who are just having psychological problems, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that, you think this isn't sinking in. [speaker002:] Well, I, I've seen more graduates from M I T and that, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] being, I work in a, in a labora-, an Air Force laboratory and so we've got a lot of, uh, M I T graduates that are in there and they are the biggest collection of screwed up people that [LAUGHTER], I think I've ever run into. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] Even, even more so, uh, like, military academy grads are a strange lot, too, I, I mean I have to ad-, confess to that. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's sort of a, a rare select environment. [speaker002:] Yeah, and they have their own quirks and tolerances and, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] you know, certain things that don't bother us at all, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that would drive other people nuts and then certain things that ways, things we do, the way we do it that drive other people nuts that, [speaker001:] Right, right, sure. [speaker002:] But, these M I T grads are off in their absolute own world. It, it's a, I, I have more re-, I have a lot of respect for M I T master's and doctorate, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. It's a top rated institution and now I, [speaker002:] degrees, but they're undergrads are like, I, I'm amazed, at, at that's a lot of them even graduated. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, I don't know. [speaker001:] Well, I, I had known a lot of undergraduates who pick schools because they want the best reputation for a school. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Not realizing that the reputation for M I T is because of the, of the doctorate research, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and the professors who go there, and you're not going to see the professors [speaker002:] Nope. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] you know, you're going to see some T A, you know. [breathing] Uh, so they p-, they, they want, you know, they want the best and they don't think, they think what the best is, is, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] reputation for, for research and that's a one standard, but it's not relevant, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] to what they need. [speaker002:] It's interesting that you mention, and I didn't think about that before when you were talking, but the service academies have all, all the faculty, uh, for the most part is, is military with a few exchange, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] instruct-, professors from other, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] schools. But, uh, having the military faculty is really beneficial because they see it as doing their job and spending time with the cadets there, uh, is investing in the Air Force, and it, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] or the, the military itself, it's the future officer corps and so, I hear hor-, horror stories from friends of mine that they could never see their instructors, they could never get extra help. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] For me any time I needed extra help any time of the day [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I had all my instructors home phone numbers [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and could call them, you go to their office anytime. I had some instructors that, uh, would invite me over to their house for extended study things on weekends, [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] when I was having trouble with something and, [speaker001:] Yeah, you won't get that at M I T or virtually or anything like that. [speaker002:] No, no, and that, [speaker001:] And you c-, you know, and you can't blame the professors either, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] because you look at their job description, you'd s-, you know, teaching is third down on the list of importance things and, [speaker002:] Right, right. Publish first, and the [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] yeah, and, and that's appropriate if the university is trying to do serious research, because it's hard to be a researcher and a teacher at the same time. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] So I'd say go to a, go to a college that has teachers. People who really are committed to the students and can afford to be because that's their job. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, oh, well [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's, there's a lot of factors that people don't ever, ever consider [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in, in their selection of a college and, uh, I don't know, maybe, I wonder if, if they enter these conversations that people have been having, uh...

[speaker001:] um [speaker002:] do you want to start [speaker001:] yes on uh taking care of the elderly do you have an older relative that you are concerned with right now [speaker002:] I just have one grandmother that's that's alive and I'm she's I think in her low eighties but she lives by herself and takes care of herself and stuff and she's healthy [speaker001:] I see that's very important [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I tell you I have uh faced this whole subject myself because my mother is not quite that old but [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] she uh has Parkinson's and uh [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] we tried taking care of her in the house and it got to where it wasn't safe and then uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] we had to to uh try different things and finally she's in a nursing home [speaker002:] hm did you hear they're coming closer to a cure for Parkinson's [speaker001:] um I hope so [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] because it really is a bad disease [speaker002:] because a lot of people in uh I think a country like Guam or something have it so [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um they're studying those people and coming closer to a cure [speaker001:] well they know what causes it uh and you know it's a an insufficiency in the brain [speaker002:] what um-hum I think it was it was on the news and they mentioned something like that some chemical [speaker001:] yeah but uh so far they haven't uh that I know of they haven't figured out why there's a deficiency and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the medicine they give them is supposed to replace it but it it doesn't [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it also has side affects [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] how do you feel about having to place someone in a nursing home [speaker002:] well I hope I can take care of my parents someday I hope I can afford to [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um um I guess it depends on what the nursing home's like because there's some very nice ones that I wouldn't mind checking into it myself [speaker001:] hm well well [speaker002:] and [speaker001:] I think another part of it it depends on whether you are uh physically able to do it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] to give them the care they need [speaker002:] uh-huh that's true if you have to work you know you don't have a choice [speaker001:] well and then too uh I found that even if I didn't work [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I couldn't hold up to taking care of mother twenty four hours a day [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] because [speaker002:] it's hard work [speaker001:] it just uh uh you know she couldn't do anything by herself and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] her mind wonders and she wonders [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh I've tried it on weekends and stuff and I my feeling on it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] is that the nursing home is there if you need it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but you hope you don't need it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I think your health is important as important as theirs [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um have you ever thought about what uh kind of things you would look for in a nursing home if you ever had to choose [speaker002:] well I guess just a nice caring environment for one thing [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and just cheery atmosphere um I've gone to this nursing home over on um Forest Lane and Greenville out there [speaker001:] um yes [speaker002:] um just for like field trips I'm a teacher and I take my students to nursing homes because um [speaker001:] yeah good [speaker002:] we study old age and stuff and um there's this one particular one over there that I've visited that was really nice and the director would hug the [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] elderly people you know hello and um we the days we were there we played games with them and just real nice atmosphere real cheerful atmosphere and it's a gorgeous nursing home too [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum that's good [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] they love the the older people love to be around children too [speaker002:] um-hum and the kids I have to like drag them out of there too so [speaker001:] isn't that great [speaker002:] uh-huh I think it's mutual [speaker001:] yeah that's great [speaker002:] so like a grandparent or something [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so um I don't know if I could [speaker001:] course there's a [speaker002:] um put my parents in a place like that I wouldn't feel bad [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know [speaker001:] well I think the worst worst thing about having to do it is the guilt you do feel [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I think the first thing is you have to be absolutely sure that's what you need to do [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh I know in in my situation we had to consider nursing care and uh [speaker002:] um-hum that's another thing medical [speaker001:] the doctor available and the fact that it's clean and you also have to you have to uh pay attention to how much it costs too [speaker002:] um-hum um yeah I bet because it can probably cost a fortune [speaker001:] um-hum it it can and it costs more than most people make in a year [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] but uh [speaker002:] does insurance help cover it at all or [speaker001:] there is a special insurance you can buy [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] for nursing home insurance in fact my husband and I take it [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] because we hope we never have to use it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh it would uh take care of an interim period until you know if it was a long-term care until Medicaid would kick in [speaker002:] um-hum do you have children or [speaker001:] because Medicaid uh pardon [speaker002:] do you have children [speaker001:] yes I have four [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um-hum but uh [speaker002:] so you have um plenty of people to take care of you some day [speaker001:] well um

[speaker001:] Well, well, Pat, did you vote in the last election? [speaker002:] Most assuredly. [speaker001:] Oh, you did? [speaker002:] Yes ma'am. I've voted in every major election since I turned twenty-one. [speaker001:] Oh, that's great. Well, why do you think, [speaker002:] Don't always [speaker001:] people don't. [speaker002:] vote for somebody. I sometimes vote against somebody [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] That makes sense too. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I think that a lot of it is, uh, I know that my late husband was simply indifferent. He didn't feel like he had any say. There was too many people, too many [talking] other votes. For example, you know, he'd say, Well, look, you and I see different sides of the fence. If I go vote you'll cancel my vote. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I said, I sure will. [speaker001:] And, [speaker002:] He said, So, I just won't vote. I said, Then mine counts, [speaker001:] Then does, [speaker002:] because you could cancel mine too. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I think, I think, that's a lot of people, just indifferent [NOISE]. I know that [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I've moved around a lot. In the past, um, three years I've had three different addresses. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Each time I change jurisdictions or whatever. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] So I just haven't, because, I mean, graduate school or whatever, so I haven't kept track of it. I did, when I lived steadily in one community, I always, I voted. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But this past time I didn't. Well, actually I voted it for the presidential election, but then I didn't vote [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, I guess, in the two year for, uh, some legislators and things and, [speaker002:] Well characteristically, in some, in the local elections [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] typically those people who vote are those who feel very strongly about an issue. [speaker001:] Right, uh-huh. [speaker002:] If I do not feel very strongly about an issue, then I see no reason to go vote. [speaker001:] Right, yeah, and that's probably one reason why I voted in the [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] the last election, but not really this one [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because this one really didn't matter that much. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's probably true. [speaker002:] Well, of course, of course listening to government, the instructors, you'll find out that everything matters, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] but then you could go crazy worrying about everything. [speaker001:] Well, you know, they also say that most people vote their local politics, that, that local is far, much more important than, uh, national [speaker002:] Well [speaker001:] issues. [speaker002:] that's the way you get to national [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and that's the way you make changes about [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] your neighborhood, [speaker001:] Oh, I definitely think so. [speaker002:] Uh, I know that I have been involved in preparing and in, in, uh, carrying out a lot of the local petitions that take place. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Even something so simple as getting a street light in between [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] lights on the end of the block. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But it makes a big difference when it's the difference in having a child run over [speaker001:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker002:] in the dark. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, it took a close call to wake us up and cause us to take [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that kind of action, and that's completely unnecessary. In another particular case they were trying to [inhaling] put in a, um, senior citizen's home [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in, in an area very near our neighborhood, but if you just cross that major street, the character of the neighborhood changes, and it's less savory. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Okay. And that, I was just very, I felt very strongly about that, those people simply did not have access to safety, to security and they were at risk. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it was for elderly people who lived alone, and they were going to put a cluster of, of houses there for them. But even clustering together for the elderly does not ensure safety. [speaker001:] No, most now, that's true, [speaker002:] And all it, all it did was to, in my judgment, make them, [speaker001:] Prepare them to be, [speaker002:] easier targets [speaker001:] victims, yes. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, easier targets, and so we, we did get a petition together and we very strongly resisted it, and it was placed in a actually, it was placed clear, closer to my neighborhood [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but it was on the, [speaker001:] Right side, [speaker002:] right side of the street. [speaker001:] of the tracks, yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, it, it, I think that they're, they're much more comfortable there. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Did they, [speaker002:] Uh, I haven't seen too much crime in my neighborhood, although we have a good crime watch program [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but it's, it's very serious [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] just across the street. [speaker001:] Did, um, did you think, I know that Texas's last gubernatorial, uh, election probably brought out a lot of voters. [speaker002:] Well. [speaker001:] Did that, did that seem to, because that re-, that got national attention, national attention, I guess, having a woman governor [speaker002:] Well. [speaker001:] running against a man and whatever. [speaker002:] No, I don't think it had to do to with woman running against man. I think it had to do with dirt running against dirtier. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And that's it [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] it was a dirty election. People were calling each other, uh, names and every bit of the trash, it was a, it was a dirty campaign. It was a dirty, mud slinging campaign. [speaker001:] Well, you know, what's funny, up here, uh, I live, I see a lot of Virginia news [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I guess, uh, Senator Robb and Governor Wilder [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] are active right here, and they have some type of wire tapping problem [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] going on, and the people in Virginia are complaining, see Robb is married to Lynda Bird Johnson [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and the people in Virginia are complaining that he is, he's using Texas politics in Virginia [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they're really complaining big time, because they said that We don't have that type of trashy politics up here like they do in Texas all the time. [speaker002:] Well, [speaker001:] So you, you guys were getting [speaker002:] of course, now, that's not all the time. We've had some pretty [speaker001:] yeah, you were getting slandered, I think, [speaker002:] We were having some pretty healthy [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, campaigns that were based on issues there for two or three of the gubernatorial races [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but, I, historically, Texas [phone ringing] has had mud and muddier campaigns [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean, it's just, I think that eventually, you know, the better people have sensibilities and they vote on those people who are least likely to do damage. Unfortunately, that's not always the way it should be. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You don't want to vote for the person who is least likely to do damage. You want to do the one who can do the most good. [speaker001:] Do the most good, yeah, that's true. [speaker002:] And, uh, [speaker001:] I guess that's why, I know that, um, I'm previously from Pennsylvania [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and Dick Thornburg who's now the attorney general [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] is going to run for senator [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because, uh, John Heinz, a senator from Pennsylvania, died in an airplane crash [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I know that they're expecting a gigantic turn out to landslide Dick Thornburg into, as, into the senate [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because they don't like the governo-, the governor's political appointee, or whatever [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they're almost expecting landslide [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] out, uh, turn out, right now [speaker002:] Okay, so you [speaker001:] for [LAUGHTER] for that election. [speaker002:] So, you see, that's very negative motivation [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] isn't it [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] isn't that too bad. We really could use a little positive motivation [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] hey, we think this guy can really make some changes and we're going to support him. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That was true in a lot of cases in, in a couple of the older sixties campaigns. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] What, in Texas, was that when, you, [speaker002:] No, I'm talking about national campaigns. [speaker001:] That's, that's true. [speaker002:] Yeah. Uh, even when John Kennedy was elected, there were so many strikes against him, but there were people who believed he could make a difference. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Now, that's not to say what has transpired or what really was, I'm saying [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that's how it was perceived. [speaker001:] that's, right, that's perception, that's true. [speaker002:] And, uh, [speaker001:] Because the, those were big political, that was a big, um, turn out [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] election. [speaker002:] Absolutely. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, and it was people going to vote for, I think, more than those who voted against. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I know, I know that in my own, uh, area of people, whom I knew and how they were going to vote, they didn't go to vote against, uh, a politician as they did a little bit later when Nixon was running. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] They went to vote against the less of, lesser of the two evils in certain cases. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Inhaling] But I think that one was one that [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you had some very strong feelings among people, and they voted their convictions. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well, I think that also happened with Ronald Reagan. [speaker002:] Absolutely. [speaker001:] He was [speaker002:] You're right. [speaker001:] he was landslided in and people really saw that was,

[speaker001:] so what kind of dining out do you enjoy [speaker002:] well we usually do things that have to do with families because I have a family of four so [speaker001:] uh-huh four children or [speaker002:] four children yeah six of us altogether so [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] when we go out it's usually someplace that caters to children more so than adult [speaker001:] uh-huh so that has a children's menu or uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah how about you [speaker001:] um well I don't have any children um and I'm a newlywed so right now I guess my favorite type of restaurant is is a place that's fairly quiet and has a pleasant atmosphere I sort of like the either an old country look or something um dim lights or something just you know the [speaker002:] have you found one in Dallas that you like [speaker001:] um well I enjoy Steak and Ale yeah that's that seems to have a pretty nice atmosphere usually not I don't like noise I just hate it when restaurants are like Bennigan's and [speaker002:] yeah yeah they just opened up an Olive Garden here in Plano [speaker001:] that's the other one that I really like yeah I haven't the in Plano I haven't um oh yeah [speaker002:] do you like it there I'm sure they're probably the same all over I've heard that their bread sticks are terrific [speaker001:] yeah yeah I've been to one here in Dallas yeah they are they really are I've only been there once uh but almost a year ago and I wanna go back I'd thought about it ever since it's not on our side of town [speaker002:] huh yeah we've been meaning to try this one out here [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] do you guys like what kind of food do you like [speaker001:] um well my husband loves anything beef so he likes steak or ribs or something but I kind of like more variety I like to be able to [speaker002:] yeah me too when I go out I like to have things that I don't cook at home you know when just he and I go out then it [speaker001:] yeah exactly uh-huh [speaker002:] it's almost always fish or something that I don't wanna do at home [speaker001:] yeah yeah I like to have a choice of fish or chicken and Italian food Mexican food [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know something um yeah something that I wouldn't that takes more time to cook at home [speaker002:] yeah what um what makes you go back there [speaker001:] um I'd say well one thing is the price I don't like it [speaker002:] yeah I was gonna say price is probably my biggest concern [speaker001:] yeah yeah if it's overpriced or you know I mean if it's I like to still be able to get a meal for well I'd prefer five dollars or less they that's unusual these days if you go out [speaker002:] yeah it seems like you can get the same menu for lunch cheap have you ever tried that just going for lunch and then [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah we like uh Tony Roma's it's a rib place [speaker002:] oh yeah I've heard of that where is it [speaker001:] uh-huh well um let's see there's there's one up at um see what is it just as um loop twelve turns into thirty five it merges it's right there it's sort of a restaurant row in Dallas there [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] and then there's also one down at the Marketplace West End Marketplace and we found out one day by mistake that lunch is about half as much as dinner is and you get about almost the same amount [speaker002:] yeah in almost any restaurant that's almost the case that we've seen [speaker001:] yeah um-hum so I'd say that's the first thing I look for is price and then atmosphere [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah how about you [speaker002:] probably price would be first um we're not you know we seems like we're always rushing rushing around doing something so location that would have a lot to do with it too I mean we don't really travel to Mesquite or you know somewhere that takes half an hour to get there so [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] we've you know tried most of the places around here and that's kind of where we stay [speaker001:] yeah so so what would your favorite place be or one of your favorites [speaker002:] oh gee [speaker001:] or some of your favorites [speaker002:] have you tried um The Louisiana Purchase do they have any of those over there [speaker001:] no I've never heard of that [speaker002:] those are good and it's kind of Cajun I usually don't like spicy food but that's real good especially lunch you know because for the same reason because it's got some atmosphere and yet the price is is good [speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] my husband really likes Chinese food so we go Chinese just a little mom and pop kind of places [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] more so than the bigger [speaker001:] yeah I like Chinese too yeah and sometimes you can uh you can often get that at a good price [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and some of them have good atmosphere too so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] Chinese places doesn't seem like they really cater to atmosphere the ones around here anyways just [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah some of them don't [speaker002:] just authentic that's all it you know it says authentic on the outside [speaker001:] yeah yeah so do you like places that are noisy that are lively yeah [speaker002:] no not necessarily um when I go out with my husband I just want to be able to to talk to him so that doesn't lend itself to that and when I'm with my children the more noise there is the more nose noise they think they can make so it doesn't it tends to make them wilder so [speaker001:] uh-huh right yeah I'm sure it does [speaker002:] I really like the Black-Eyed Pea but I also think that's real noisy have you ever been to a Black-Eyed Pea [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I have [speaker002:] it's got such a open atmosphere and clanking and banging that I love the food but it is really noisy [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's what I found too so well do you have anything else you wanted to say [speaker002:] no I think that's pretty much what makes me go back

[speaker001:] well Barbara whenever you get around to purchasing your next new car what are going to be the chief considerations [speaker002:] one of the main considerations is safety and quietness and um economy what about you [speaker001:] uh I'm interested primarily in reliability uh [speaker002:] well I have found most of the cars now are pretty reliable um I haven't found any that have left me down yet what are your specific requirements American or foreign [speaker001:] well well uh let me give you a little history on that I drove I drove uh GM cars for a long time and in fact I had a a Chevrolet and it ended up costing it was only about five or six years old and I was paying on the average a hundred dollars a month in repair bills on that thing and I just couldn't handle that so I took a deep breath and bought a Toyota and have lived happily ever after since then yes yes I've had two small problems neither one of which left me by the side of the road [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] uh with the Toyota in the last five years and and when I was buying that I was concerned primarily with reliability reliability and but I also wanted a hatchback because you know you you sometimes you have to carry bags of fertilizer [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh so well it is a sports car that I got which is my first probably my last one because comfort is not high on the list when you get a sports car [speaker002:] do you have a family for comfort or [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] just you [speaker001:] just me [speaker002:] well I had the same problem whenever I had a General Motors car I had a Chevy and uh [speaker001:] just me [speaker002:] it was constantly giving me valve problems I had this constant ticking of the valves and uh I switched over to Chrysler Plymouth and I haven't had a lick of problem [speaker001:] does your car have an air bag [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] it does [speaker002:] but just on the driver's side [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I wish they would come out with them everywhere on the passenger side too [speaker001:] yeah I suspect they probably will and I think on my next car I'll be concerned I'll I think I will want antilock brakes I've heard good things about them it was the first year it was offered on the Toyota Supra when I bought mine [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I was a little nervous about some new technology I mean I'd got to where I had real this real hate relationship with anything that looked like service department at a dealership [speaker002:] well I found out they're pretty good whenever uh especially on weather like we're having today and and uh the roads are so slippery [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the antilock brakes are one of the better ones to have [speaker001:] yeah yeah I think I'd I'd like that I don't know I I have a friend who drives an Acura Legend which is very comfortable car [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it it makes me more aware of how uncomfortable mine is every time I ride in his car [speaker002:] my daughter has a Civic Honda and that's a real comfortable car to sit in yeah which surprised me [speaker001:] uh-huh oh is it uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] I have a Chrysler now I just bought and uh it's real comfortable and I'm very happy with it but Chrysler has a good warranty that they have to stand behind so I haven't had any worries about that that's one thing I go for in a car is their warranty and uh what does and doesn't come under that warrantee but they have the seven thousand uh seven thousand seventy thousand miles or seven years I believe [speaker001:] yes uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh bumper to bumper and I have no complaints [speaker001:] well that's great [speaker002:] so far with mine [speaker001:] that's great so if you had to do it again you'd buy another Chrysler do you think would you [speaker002:] I sure would Dodge Plymouth Chrysler something in that line [speaker001:] that's yeah that's interesting because I mean I I was hearing a just on on the way home from work the other day I heard something on the news about the trade deficit for December the figures were some some very large number [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I was thinking golly and and you know it's partly my fault I mean not in December but I I really have a problem buying Japanese things and for years I bought American and I don't know I hope by the time this car wears out and I hope that's not for another five or ten years [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] I hope that I can get an American one at that time [speaker002:] well that's another fallacy because uh so many people say that's a requirement has to be American but uh did you know that my Chrysler has foreign parts in it and so does Chevy and so does Ford [speaker001:] oh sure it yeah [speaker002:] so um I often hear people saying well I want to buy American or I like the foreign something and uh they're built right here like the foreign cars are even built over here Datsun has a

[speaker001:] You want to go first? [chiming]. [speaker002:] [Static] No, you can start [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Okay. Uh, one of the things they talked about was, uh, did we, d-, wh-, what do we think about a judge making the decision? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I really don't agree with that [swallowing]. I think that the trial by jury is better, uh, you know, than e-, having a [chiming] unanimous decision rather than to have one person be responsible. I don't think that they could be objective in every case, every time. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Yo-, you know what I mean? [speaker002:] Right. There's, there, th-, this topic is kind of mute. Uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] there, there's no way. We, we couldn't survive in a sy-, in a juror syst-, in a trial system without a jury. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, one man can never be, one man, one woman can never be objectionable in every case. [speaker001:] That's it. [speaker002:] Uh, every person has their opinions and that's why jury selection is often very difficult. Uh. [speaker001:] Well, I, I feel the other thing too, uh, they were saying, uh, you know, what new ways could y-, could it, you, you know, change the system. I, I really think that, uh, we spend a lot of time, uh, going through appeal after appeal after appeal after appeal, [speaker002:] [Noise] [sounds like something is being sliced]. [speaker001:] I mean, i-, if you go to a trial by jury and especially if a person has confessed. If they have been caught, you know, point blank in the crime. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] There's, uh, no question it's beyond a reasonable doubt. You know, all these things. I mean, you know, [speaker002:] [Meow]. [speaker001:] we've gone through this over and over again. [speaker002:] Right. They shouldn't allow an appeal. [speaker001:] And it can go on for ten, twenty, [speaker002:] [Meow]. [speaker001:] years. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] I, I think this is a little ridiculous. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [Swallowing] I think the only people who benefit from that are the lawyers. [speaker002:] Oh, that's right. I work for a law firm [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I, I'm serious. And I think that the lawyers have caused a lot of the problems tha-, that exist in the s-, in the criminal system today. With plea bargaining. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] You know, if someone is ill, [speaker002:] Well plea bar-, plea bargaining is a different story. [speaker001:] Well. [speaker002:] Plea bargaining is something completely different. That, that actually prevents trials. Or at least speeds them up. [speaker001:] Well, I know. That's what I'm saying. But I think a lot of, all of the whole criminal system is messed up in, in that regard. I mean, you know, people who commit, uh, crimes that they, I don't know how it works exactly but [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you know, they get lesser sentences and I understand that the jails are full of people, you know, uh [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and that they have to do something. But, I think that the reason they are full is because they know that they can get away with it. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] Yo-, you know what I'm saying? That w-, we don't have, uh, well a lot of states don't have capital punishment. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, uh [speaker002:] We do [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I, I think they should. I, and I think if a person is guilty of taking someone's life and like you say, it's, it's, there's no doubt whatsoever. Like drunk drivers that kill people and, uh, you know, all [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] they, they're caught dead to rights. I, I just think that that's, they've, they've taken a life and if, they should pay for it with their life. [speaker002:] Right. When you're saying as far as the appeal, uh, procedure was concerned. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Inhaling] We just have the case, I'm, I'm sure you've probably heard of Marion Berry. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, his f-, last appeal was, was denied two days before his sentence was up [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, really. [speaker002:] So, I mean, his appeal was denied and two days later he got out of jail [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It, uh, [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] For cocaine possession. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, [clicking] [swallowing] that was absurd [LAUGHTER]. There is never, there was no reason [speaker001:] I know that, that. [speaker002:] the appeal process should have dragged on that long for a six month sentence. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. And, I don't know. Uh, what would you do to change it? To make it better? [speaker002:] Well, uh, the, the only I can, I wa-, you know, the, appeal procedure is the only thing I can possibly think of. Uh, a-, like I said, as far as removing of the jury and having the judge sentence, that's absurd. There's no way that could work. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I, I, I don't agree with that at all. [speaker002:] Uh, but, [speaker001:] Imagine the guilt that person would have. I mean [speaker002:] Oh, exactly. [speaker001:] burned out. There's [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] there's no possible way that you could, uh, you know, feel good about yourself. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] If you had to do something like that, day after day. [speaker002:] No one would want the job [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] No. Not really. [speaker002:] [Thumping] Uh, [lipsmack] and, you know, like I said, the, you know, everyone has their opinions about every case. [speaker001:] [Rustling] Well, w-, do you think people should have a trial is they're caught dead to rights like, [speaker002:] Oh yeah. I, I feel that everyone is, everyone is, uh, entitled to a trial by jury. That, that, that right s-, [speaker001:] I mean, supposing I come up to you and I just point blank kill you. [speaker002:] Well, I mean, were there witnesses? [speaker001:] In other words you're saying that, w-, you have to find out whether it's premeditated or [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] what the circumstances were. [speaker002:] Right. That you can't, you can't remove the jury regardless of the case. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean you could have fifty people in audience watching [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] a murder take place and you, you'd still, there's still mitigating circumstances [static]. [speaker001:] Well, I, I,

[speaker001:] So, uh, let's see wh-, what was the topic, I forgot we are supposed to talk, [speaker002:] Advice for people taking for parents, uh, help their kids through college. [speaker001:] Yeah, do you have any children? [speaker002:] No, I just graduated from college. [speaker001:] Oh, did you? [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Where did you go? [speaker002:] I went to Clarion. [speaker001:] Clarion. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Huh, uh, would you, I mean, if you had children, would you want them to go to a certain place or, [speaker002:] Um, I would want them to make that decision and I would, you know, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] uh, I pretty much made my decision on my own and my b-, older brother, likewise. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, you know, we, we were both pretty much happy with what we did. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, I think, I would not push them towards any one place. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I know, I kind of feel the same way I, I just finished college a couple years ago and I, uh, you know, it was while I had my family and everything and it was a lot harder, but, uh, you know, I went to a college that was fairly local and I feel like my education, you know, you get out of it what you put into it, I think. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, you know, I know, it's, some people are real adamant about, you know, going to a certain school or whatever. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I do not know, I guess it, a lot of it would depend on maybe what your major was or something, I do not know. But, [speaker002:] Yeah, exactly. [speaker001:] But, [speaker002:] I think one of the first things kids ought to look for is, first of all, they have to decide what they want to major in. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And then, you know, find a school that's good for that. [speaker001:] Yeah. Is that why you picked the school you did or, [speaker002:] Well I picked it for a couple of reasons, it was only about an hour and ten minutes away from home, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so it was far enough away that I was away, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but yet close enough if I ever wanted to go home, I could. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] So you lived there at school then? [speaker002:] Pardon me. [speaker001:] You lived there at school. [speaker002:] Yeah, I lived up at school. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Yeah. Uh, another reason was, uh, I paid for my entire education. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So I had to look for something that I could afford economically. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] You know, and, uh, Clarion was, oh, it was roughly around six thousand a year. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. And that was for tuition and, [speaker002:] Yeah, that was for everything. And now, I did not go out a lot and I did not order out a lot, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I, you know, I did not spend money on myself. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, then again, I was there for school so, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, and then another reason was I was not sure, you know, I always wanted to go to school for nursing, and then at the last minute, I changed my mind. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I knew that Clarion was known, you know, for two things, actually, for their, they are known as a teacher's school [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and also for their business. So, that's what I ended up going for is for business. [speaker001:] For business. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, uh, are you working somewhere then or, [speaker002:] No, no not yet, I am moving shortly, so I am not looking around here. [speaker001:] Oh, I see, where are you going to move to? [speaker002:] Uh, Maryland. [speaker001:] Oh, are you? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Do you have friends there or, [speaker002:] My fiancee is down there [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. So, does he work for a company down there? [speaker002:] Yeah, he works for the government. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. Oh, the big company. [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So, yeah, I, I have been working for T I for about twelve years, I guess. So, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But I am not originally, I am originally from Illinois, but, you know, I have gone to college, I guess a few different places, but I think, you know, mo-, for the most part, you know, the teachers have been pretty good and I have got out of it what I have, what I have put into it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, but, you know, I think, I think that's most of it personally, but that's why I, you know, with my kids, I think that, you know, I am just going to encourage them to go. And I am going to try to help them financially but, uh, I think, you know, financially, I am, there's only so much I can do for them, [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] and I will say, here's what you have got, you can either, you know, go a couple of years locally and, you know, then if you want to move off to a more expensive school then, we might be able to handle it. But, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] otherwise, you can just go for four years, you know, somewhere and I will try to, try to help you. But, uh, I do not know, you know, the financial end of it, like you said. I put my wife through school too. Of course T I paid for a lot of the tuition and books and stuff, but, uh, it still was a challenge to do. And, uh, so, I think, you know, financially that's, that's one of the big aspects. [speaker002:] Exactly, yeah. [speaker001:] You know, you, [speaker002:] It does have a lot of bearing on it, whether you are paying for yourself, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] or whether your parents are, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, did you, uh, since you were paid for school yourself, do you think you had a different outlook on it, like your grades and things like that? [speaker002:] Uh, yeah, because I was paying for it myself, I kind of slacked off, because I felt it was mine and I could do with it what I wanted. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think if my parents would have paid for it they would have been on me, you know, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, they pretty much got to the point, well, well, you know, you are at that age and you are going to have to decide what you want to do. If you goof, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] up, it's your fault, it's not ours, you know. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And then, lets me go and, I mean, I did not do poorly. I finished with a two five, that's not that wonderful either. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, you know, I, I mean I worked, I did not, you know, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] goof around, I worked. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] It was just harder, you know, I do not know, I was used to being, you know, on top and when I started there, it was like, you are mediocre, so. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well see, I think, you know, I have known a lot of people that would go to school and their parents paid for it and, and I guess it depends on the way you are raised too, but if you, if you grow to expect that, you know, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you kind of go there as sort of a vacation, you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I, that's the way a lot of my friends did it and, you know, they were not, they did not take it very serious. I know I took it real serious, 'cause I did not start to college until, you know, [LAUGHTER] I was about eight or ten years and, uh, you know, out of what I should have been in school. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, uh, you know, so I think that helped me be real serious about it. And I, I ended up graduating with like a three point six. [speaker002:] Oh, wow, that's really good. [speaker001:] Yeah, so I, you know, and that was hard cause I had two kids, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, you know, a family and everything else, so I had a lot of different hats to wear all at the same time. But, [speaker002:] Yeah. See, well I screwed myself up also, there was a point in time that I decided that I did not want to in school, and my parents never pushed me until my dad just said, what are you going to do and I said, well I am going to go because I have not whipping butter the rest of my life, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah, you are right, exactly. [speaker002:] So, I went and I just took business, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] well, being as I was paying for it myself, you know, I just kept, you do not get into your major until like your second or third year. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And I am going into my third year and I decided, well I do not want to do accounting anymore, right [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I thought, oh, my God, I am paying for this myself, I am not switching completely because, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I will put myself a year behind. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So I switched to finance, and I liked it better [NOISE] and I pulled myself from a two oh to a two five, you know, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in my last year, my senior year. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But I would have really liked to go on, uh, secondary ed with math education, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but it was just the fact I was paying for it myself, I was not going, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] to put myself behind another year. [speaker001:] Right. Well m-, my wife, was sort of in the same situation, she was, she went to school to be a teacher just because she did not really know what else to go, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for, and she did not realize until she got to be a senior and was doing her student teaching that she did not like it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, you know, by then she had practically got her degree, so, [speaker002:] Exactly. [speaker001:] so, you know, [speaker002:] I think if, uh, I would have went with the math, I think I would have done a lot better, because I was more interested. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And that's what I, I knew that's what I wanted. But, uh, I think a lot of kids that hold off a year or two, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] oh, my gosh, I would like to see the results on a study done. I think they would do a lot better. Because they are more focused. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] They know exactly what they want to do. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think, I think you are right, when you pull yourself away and then you get out and you say, man I really need this.

[speaker001:] Okay, I'll let you start this time. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, how much do you like lawn and garden work? [speaker001:] Well, uh, even though it's totally out of my, uh, my degree training, I've been working as, as, in the horticultural aspect, so [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] the last, I don't know, fifteen, twenty years, so [speaker002:] Oh, for goodness sakes. [speaker001:] Uh, I'm, [speaker002:] What do you do? [speaker001:] Well, I work for the state as, as a grounds keeper. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, well, that's interesting. Um, so, at this time of the year are you doing much garden work? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] No, mostly snow removal, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] which we've had a lot of, but, uh, I don't know, I, I guess, uh, growing up on the farm and, and that, I, I've always had a big interest, uh. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I have a, uh, when I have an area to do, I, I always had a big garden [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and enjoy working on lawns and, and everything. [speaker002:] Well [throat clearing], I love to work outside, really, and I enjoy flowers and stuff. I don't do a whole lot of it, um, at this exact point in my life, um, because I have two teenage boys, and so they do all the lawn [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Okay. [speaker002:] all the lawn care [LAUGHTER], but I still take care of the, you know, flower beds and things like that. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] I was even planning to go out and to, uh, dig up some hibiscus plants that will not make it through the winter here, but, you know, were planted in the ground since last spring [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I was going to dig them up for a friend and for some starters for me, and lo and behold, about five days ago, we had a freeze down to about, oh, twenty-three degrees or something [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so the hibi-, [speaker001:] Oh, that's terrible. Twenty-three de-, [speaker002:] hibiscus plants no longer exist [LAUGHTER]. And I really feel bad about it, it's a plant that we've had for probably twenty-five years that these [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] were cuttings off of, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, they're all gone at this point. Gardening in Texas is really interesting, though. I grew up in Illinois [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, um, [throat clearing] Texas is just so hot in the summer and so dry, why, you know, everyone that lives in town and has yards practically has land-, uh, [lipsmack] watering system. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And so with that, why, our lawns do stay, um, you know, pretty nice all summer, if you water. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But in the winter, we have Bermuda grass [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and in the winter it turns as brown as a grocery sack [speaker001:] Right, yeah. [speaker002:] and [cough], and I just think it's ugly [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] When I go back home to my parents in Illinois in the winter, you know, and their grass is fairly green. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, that's one, one aspect of a lot of those grasses, they go dormant. I think the Saint Augustine and, uh, Centipede grass is another one you have quite a bit of down there [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] yeah, those two. [speaker002:] Yeah. Some people have, I think it's fescue [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that stays green all winter, but they really have a heck of a time keeping it going in the middle of the summer. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] They have to water an incredible amount. But, um, those law-, those lawns look nice during the winter, but, you know, they almost stick out like a, I guess not a sore thumb, a pretty thumb. But, you know, when you look at the neighborhoods and they're all brown except the one, you know, it's sort of like, well, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I know my folks live, uh, in Arizona there, and, uh, you know, they just grow rocks and. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] That's their gardening there. So, uh, I guess as long as you can have, uh, some grass there. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] So. I know I was in, uh, Houston when I was working for a company once, and we were taking care of lawns out there, and, uh, that particular year they had just tons of rain, you know, it was raining continuously. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then, I know with all that moisture, a lot of the lawns get a lot of disease problems. [speaker002:] Yes, that's true. Yeah, Houston is a lot, um, a lot wetter than, than Dallas, Dallas area, that's where Plano is, and, um, [lipsmack] and just humidity [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, just all the time, it's an awfully lot more humid. [speaker001:] Are, are you, uh, able to get, uh, sometimes a double crops of, of certain things in your garden? [speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh, I think people do. Yeah. I don't have a vegetable garden, haven't for, I guess I never have here, actually, but, um, but, yes, uh-huh, we have Neil Sperry talks on the radio,

[speaker001:] probably uh the lifestyles and the size of the area we live in and an age can make a very difference in how credit cards are used um at this point in life I do not carry a credit card that I have to pay a service charge on [speaker002:] uh-huh none at all huh [speaker001:] right uh we used to have American Express and uh Visa that of course there's a yearly fee on [speaker002:] I see yeah has it [speaker001:] and we got rid of those we now have Discover we have a Visa that does not have a yearly fee and then we have a card that our bank put out on a promotion this year that uh of the first year there is no yearly fee and of course we don't plan on keeping it the second year [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah that [speaker001:] because I'm pretty frugal about things like that [speaker002:] that's what we we got rid of an American Express card for the same reason is though we have a a credit union and we get our cards our other MasterCards for free so we don't have to pay a a fee at all [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and that's what I I know people who don't have any credit cards at all and I'm always amazed because I don't know how they can get by without them it doesn't seem like you can do anything anymore without a credit card [speaker001:] we find it especially useful because my husband retired over a year ago and we travel quite a bit and we we like to leave a credit card when we check into a motel in case we want to make a phone call or [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] whatever which we do pretty often and and uh fact in a lot of motels we noticed from our most recent trip they that you do not even get the telephone turned on in your room unless you've left a credit card at the desk [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] so I suppose for that reason we will always have a credit card of some kind but [speaker002:] yeah I like them too with with us we've got insurance of course but due to my husband's work but by the time like two weeks ago we all got sick all four us and one kid had to go to the doctor twice and then all the other the the rest of us did and he was like six hundred dollars yeah and it was we were we all had it was a viral pneumonia it was really bad and and we were just horribly sick but I mean six hundred dollars I can't come up with [speaker001:] oh my uh-huh can you do that on a credit card [speaker002:] yeah all the doctors here will take a Visa so that and you know and go to KMart and use the pharmacy to pay for the uh medicines and then turn it all into the insurance company and wait for it to come back [speaker001:] oh for heaven sakes for the drugs yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] you know and so our part of it was still twenty percent but twenty percent I can payoff in one month whereas you know then I got to wait for the rest the rest of it to come back from Aetna but it basically floats [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know during the the time because we've got a thirty day grace period on the credit card as long as you pay it you know within that time and that's usually enough time for the insurance to get back [speaker001:] oh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] I try to make that our biggest use of credit cards I know people who are so in debt people who have five Visa cards I can't believe you know it's like why did you go get they charged up one so then they but they were still paying their minimum so their credit rating was still good [speaker001:] uh yes uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and and you would you know they get this in the mail say oh well we can't use that one anymore we'll just get another one and that's like who you [speaker001:] I have a girlfriend who has one that her husband doesn't know she has now uh she must rent a p post office box or something or I mean she couldn't beat him to the mail every month I wouldn't think [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] because they both work and they uh he's a fireman so he's home two days a week that she teaches and would not be there so I don't know how she manages it but she keeps that a secret and I would not want to pay her monthly [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] interest rate on the thing it just has to be awful because it [speaker002:] oh yeah but that's that's a good way to make a big problem in your marriage real quick gosh that's just dishonest [speaker001:] oh oh I would think so but they've been married almost thirty five years so I think they've done things like that to each other for a long time [speaker002:] oh well maybe maybe they'll be all right I know in mine if I did something like that and then my husband found out jeez he would just be well I I think I would feel the same way I'd I'd really feel like I'd been deceived you know that that wasn't the thing to do [speaker001:] uh-huh yes yes well many many many many years ago uh I bought wallpaper we have a large kitchen uh dining kitchen family room combination and I wanted to paper it and I bought wallpaper from Sears catalog on my Sears card and at that time I was only able to pay about ten dollars a month which meant I was taking about eight dollars a month off [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] the balance by the time they got their interest out of it and it took forever to pay it off and at that point I promised myself I would never pay interest on a credit card again so that's kind of been my motto [speaker002:] um yeah we've tried to do that we've paid ours off you know all the way down to where we had everything down to zero and especially right before I I quit work two years ago to stay home with the kids and right and before I left we had everything paid off we were in great shape we were putting money you know because we were both working we were finally putting money in [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but we've gone back the other way to some extent because because just because there are times when you just can't pay it all [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] because there are just too many bills [speaker001:] well as you say when you're taking children to the doctor and adults too it does make a difference our children are matured out of the home and uh our needs are much different than they were [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] uh when we were raising a family I think back then we just now we feel like we might could live without one but uh we have a Discover card and I have to laugh about the cash back do you have one of those [speaker002:] oh isn't that silly I I sent that one back because we had used it for a year and we had used a thousand dollars worth during the year and what we and and I think we got back fifty cents or something it was like please what is this this is and the interest on it was was eighteen or nineteen percent [speaker001:] did you yeah yeah oh [speaker002:] and our Visa card was we could get through our credit union was like fourteen percent so we just we sent it back we [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we keep gas credit cards and we have Visa and then I have started my own business I have a photography business and I went ahead and got a separate Visa just for that photography business because there are things that I have to buy [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and with my photography when I when I take things to the lab to get developed it's several hundred dollars at a time and I was using up all of our personal credit [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] with my photography business even though again it's paying off every month because I'm I'm putting everything [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I'm I'm uh you know I'm getting the pictures and I'm taking them back to the people I already have their money but I wasn't depositing them until I gave them the pictures back [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] another practice I found I'm going to have to stop hot checks you wouldn't think for a for a twelve dollar school picture that uh that people would write a hot check but they do [speaker001:] oh oh I see oh dear well uh-huh I think those are the same people who have their credit cards uh charged up to the max and that's just a way of life I guess [speaker002:] I guess it's just you know and when I think about that lady this this particular lady who wrote me a check for twelve dollars and it bounced and I sent it through you know sent it through the check through the bank once and she incurred at least a fifteen dollar fee [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] for a returned check so now she's already doubled the price of her check and I've s ent it through a second time because they said there's money in the account now [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know and and if it doesn't go through the second time that woman's out thirty bucks [speaker001:] for one twelve dollar check it's never quite made sense to me but then uh [speaker002:] for one twelve dollar check [speaker001:] when my husband was in business he had one customer who said that he had to use credit cards because he spent more than he made every month and he was perfectly serious about it [speaker002:] gosh [speaker001:] so I don't know why he you know didn't go ahead and project to the fact that eventually that was going to catch up with him but [speaker002:] yeah he's going to have a debt going out the ear [speaker001:] uh-huh I was very glad my husband retired and got away from that kind of thing so we've we have a little problem with our gas card we're uh we've always used a Mobile card because he was affiliated with Mobile Oil and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] we it's very difficult to find their stations so I guess that's one reason why we use uh we've used Discover and Visa quite a bit for fuel even [speaker002:] uh uh-huh yeah well we have a lot of Mobile stations around here and I used to use that card almost exclusively but now they're charging the extra five cents to use your credit card and Texaco and Chevron and somebody else is not anymore they'll take it you know at the cash price or you they'll now let you write a check if you have their card so you pay for it immediately instead of um you know putting it off for a month [speaker001:] uh-huh I thought that was illegal [speaker002:] what's that writing a check for gas [speaker001:] no no no to uh put a surcharge on a credit card of [speaker002:] well all of them down down here you had a cash price for gasoline and a credit card price [speaker001:] oh so what they're doing they're discounting for cash is the way they're because I think it is illegal to add a surcharge so [speaker002:] right that's that's supposedly [speaker001:] that's that they're looking at it differently it amounts to that you have to pay extra if you use your credit card but [speaker002:] uh-huh right and and they've changed that now now stop it go play and leave me alone yeah and so I'm using the other ones now because they're just as easy to get to and then they're nickel a gallon cheaper so [speaker001:] yeah so what we're saying is that we use a credit card when it uh is convenient but if it's going to cost us money we don't though [speaker002:] yes we try not to we're probably the only two people in the United States the bank the banks don't want to hear from us because they want those people who charge it up to ten thousand dollars uh and then get all yeah and then pay fifty dollars a month and it all goes to interest [speaker001:] probably and leave us uh-huh [speaker002:] oh I guess they must they must make a ton there's not too many places you can make eighteen percent interest on things anymore [speaker001:] that's right that's right [speaker002:] that's what we need see you and I need to get in the credit card business we need to start our own credit card if you can yeah because you sure can't get that interest anyway else gosh [speaker001:] I guess so that would be wonderful wouldn't it huh-uh huh-uh not on those CD's we're trying to live on uh yeah [speaker002:] oh yeah ours are like seven percent we've got one and with with IRA stuff in it and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] jeez you can't get any interest rates [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] my folks have just retired just in the last couple of months my dad has and uh they're trying to figure out you know what they're doing with stuff and my mom's in there cutting up the credit cards you know can't use these anymore and [speaker001:] um-hum sure sure yeah well like I say the only reason we do in fact I when my husband and I were

[speaker001:] well Doug what are they doing in your community in Pennsylvania about recycling [speaker002:] okay well some stuff I go to Penn State up here and the town recycles quite a bit actually they collect curbside [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] gone the day that the garbage goes and they recycle um tin and aluminum cans and glass and newspaper basically [speaker001:] uh-huh so the the people have to separate it out is that [speaker002:] um no actually the um garbage crew does that you just put a you know plastic plastic recycling bin out on the curb every week and now except for having the paper bundled people don't really separate at all [speaker001:] oh yeah how about at Penn State do they recycle things like uh computer paper and that sort of thing [speaker002:] um yeah they do although there's just recently been a problem with them uh like saying that they weren't able to afford recycling everything anymore so that they um they stopped recycling newspaper on campus for instance [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] they stopped recycling glass so they're only doing cans and white paper now which I think is kind of insane [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] because it's really not that expensive [speaker001:] well what I've uh learned about recycling is that it's almost impractical to recycle newspapers [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] which is sad and and as a matter of fact I'm member of a civic organization where we had someone from the city of Dallas come talk to us about recycling and the whole key to recycling is demand [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] the supply is there people are willing to do it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but for example until they figure out how they can strip the inks off of used newspapers effectively cost effectively [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] then it's not gonna happen [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and there are whole huge warehouses in Dallas full of used newspapers and I think they actually are building some sort of a plant in Texas where they can strip the ink off [speaker002:] um-hum I see [speaker001:] I know at work we recycle white paper and cans like you said [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh the city of Plano is actually doing quite a bit they recently started picking up um glass aluminum and and they will take newspapers too [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and it apparently doesn't have to be sorted they haven't quite reached my neighborhood yet but they're doing all sorts of smart things uh [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] they no longer allow grass clippings to be bagged up in plastic bags and put out by the trash [speaker002:] um yeah that's definitely good [speaker001:] yes if you want to bag you know if you if if you don't want the clippings left on your lawn you can bag them in biodegradable bags which means paper [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] which you can buy from the city [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and they're great until it rains and then they start biodegrading [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but they are uh contracting with someone to turn all these clippings into mulch [speaker002:] oh that's great [speaker001:] and I don't know whether I don't know whether it'll be available to the to the citizens of the town or whether it will just be used in the parks and recreation department or something I I don't know I guess it really doesn't matter [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but it's uh uh since they won't take any yard waste it's that's in plastic bags it's a little bit annoying when you're you know pulling up your vegetable garden at the end of the season and that sort of thing [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and you don't have any of the their special paper bags on hand because you haven't bagged your clippings at all you just let them recycle themselves [speaker002:] yeah I she see [speaker001:] but uh I don't I this for a rather small town well hundred thousand people or so I guess this pretty progressive community [speaker002:] um-hum uh is it happening much in towns like it in Texas [speaker001:] um I don't know about statewide I think I think in the Dallas area there are few other uh suburbs Plano's a suburb that uh are doing things about recycling [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] but it in order for it to be cost effective you have to have customers for it you have to have people say I won't have I won't buy paper unless it's recycled [speaker002:] right right right because [speaker001:] I mean [speaker002:] right the plan of the state college originally was that the recycling would pay for itself and all that and the people's garbage rates would actually go down and of course if hasn't happened that way

[speaker001:] The last auto repair I had was I have a nineteen eighty-four Nissan truck [smack] I had a [throat clearing] tune up done and I had, I had the brakes done on it and then, the reason I did that was because I don't have a scope and it has eight spark plugs and it's hard to, to get get at them and plus the time on them. I just don't have time any more. Uh, [smack] as far as maintenance tasks that I do myself, [NOISE] I, I usually change the oil and wash the air filter and I, I had an occasion to change, to have to change the battery once, but, the brakes, I was really surprised that the brakes [throat clearing]. I wanted, I do have the background. I know what needs to be done and I know that the oil needs, should be changed very regularly and all of the bearings and the lube, lubrication system needs to be lubricated and [inhaling] so I, I stay on top of that [throat clearing] but I [throat clearing] I wanted my front wheels, I wanted the bearings packed and they wanted something like fifteen dollars, uh, a front or something like that or maybe it was thirty dollars to do it [speaker002:] Just to pack the bearings? [speaker001:] just to pack the bearings, but what I found is that they had a brake job and they, I had them, the other thing I let them do some times is that I let them go through and let them tell me what, let them do the diagnostics. That's free, okay. And then I can decide whether I want them to do it or whether I can do it, see. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And they told me that my, my brake pads were gosh, you know, seventy percent still good, you know, but still it was cheaper in the long run and uh, so I just got the the brakes done and I thought that was a good deal. And plus [speaker002:] Right. And they repacked the wheel bearings. [speaker001:] and they re-, repacked the the wheel bearings. Yeah but, uh, I've, I've had considerable experience. I'm, you might say I'm, uh, uh, good back yard mechanic and I, you know, I took auto shop in high school, it's been a while back, but I, I still have a pretty good feel for it, but [smack] one thing I didn't know is that when I was messing around with cars and stuff and most of the cars, I, I had bigger cars and the brakes go out fairly rapidly on those and what I was surprised at is that on my little Nissan I bought the truck with about sixty thousand, I have almost one hundred and ten, so I drove on those brake pads for, uh, you know, forty-five thousand miles and there was hardly any wear to them. So those small little trucks and cars like that, they just the longevity of the brake pads is really good. [speaker002:] You know, they've gotten to the point that where they don't weigh very much and the the [speaker001:] Exa-, [speaker002:] surface materials on the pads is so good. [speaker001:] Exactly, so I, you know, I just did it anyway. I like to, I like to stay up on it. You know, like I just kind of stay up on it and then if you go and like, just about any point, any you know point in time [swallowing] and pull my dip stick and pull it out and look at the oil, the oil is you might say, uh, a white golden brown. You know, it's not dirty. I, I, I keep it that way because that's, that is the key to the longevity. [speaker002:] Right. Well [speaker001:] So, so how, [speaker002:] it sounds like you've had some good experiences with that [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, and my experiences have been kind of contrary to that. [speaker001:] Oh, oh. [speaker002:] Uh, I, I get a little more involved in the maintenance of my car and, uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and in fact I have an eighty-seven Mustang with a three O two in it [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that I've, uh, beefed up a little bit [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] and one of the things that I did was to change the pulley system on it to use under drive pulleys so that the engine doesn't have to turn the accessories and can use more of the power to the rear wheels [speaker001:] Uh-huh [very faint]. [speaker002:] uh, the only catch was the first set of under drive pulleys that I put on it were, uh, not even cast aluminum. They were just pressed aluminum. [speaker001:] You're talking about the vibration dampener? [speaker002:] Well, there's three, there's three pulleys that you change. You change the crank pulley [speaker001:] That's the vibration dampener, yeah. [speaker002:] the alternator pulley and, uh, the water pump pulley. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] So, when I changed those over, I put on these, these pressed aluminum things [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] and, uh, probably about four months ago the water pump decided to go out. [speaker001:] Uh, oh. [speaker002:] So in the process of seizing, the belt spun on the pulley and wore [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] through the water pump pulley almost all the way. [speaker001:] Uh, oh. [speaker002:] But not far enough to notice. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] So, I was on my way to work one day and, uh, the water pump pulley split laterally in half. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] So there was half a water pump pulley still attached to the water pump and the other half was kind of dangling off the end of the crank [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and uh, I,

[speaker001:] [Child crying] Uh, in Texas they do have the, uh, capital punishment and, uh, I, I ju-, I, I'm probably one that has to agree with it too. Uh, there a-, some things that go on that I just feel that I, I, just feel, that, that, [NOISE] that is a need. I don't know. A lot of people don't feel that way either but I just feel that [static], [speaker002:] [Talking] Well I don't know how much publicity it's gotten outside of the state but California we just put somebody to death [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, for, I think it was a double murder. Uh, to be honest, I didn't pay that much attention, uh, to the details of it. Uh, but it had a lot of controversy out here. Uh, basically, because in California people like to protest about everything. [speaker001:] [Talking]. [speaker002:] Uh, but I agree, I believe that, that there are a number of crimes that capital punishment is the best way to go. [speaker001:] Uh-huh [child talking]. [speaker002:] Uh, the big disagreement I have is that [swallowing] in California, the appeals process, uh, is so extensive and takes so long that you end up spending a huge amount of money in like ten to fifteen years before you can actually, you know, put somebody to death for, for a crime. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, that is a consequence, yeah. [speaker002:] And, I mean, that's, that's ridiculous. I mean if you can, you know, y-, y-, the trial is supposed to prove, you know, within a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty, [speaker001:] [Child yelling]. [speaker002:] and then they have appeals. Well, that's fine but it shouldn't take more, [speaker001:] [Static]. [speaker002:] than a few years. I mean, I should think [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] two or three years maximum, you should be able to know and you should be able to either put the guy to death or he's innocent. I mean [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] it's, if he's guilty for, for, you know, multiple murders or whatever the case may be [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know. [speaker001:] Well maybe that's something that needs to be worked on. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But I, I just feel that, that capital punishment needs to stay within the system. Not all states have them but I, [inhaling] you know, was that, was that the, I'm not sure if that was in, was that the man that, that claimed he was abused or, [speaker002:] Yeah, he was like, uh, the [speaker001:] And that he had [speaker002:] the [speaker001:] he, [speaker002:] defense, the defense they're were giving, given was that, uh, like his mother had, had been an alcoholic when, when she was [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] pregnant with him and so he, he wasn't, you know, mentally competent or anything else. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Swallowing] Which is ridiculous, [speaker001:] [Ringing]. [speaker002:] and, and the court found him competent, uh, and he knew what he was doing and everything else. I mean [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, it was, it was the best defense they could come up with. [speaker001:] And how long had he been a-, appealing [rustling]? How long was that? [speaker002:] I forget. I think it was something like twelve years or something. [speaker001:] Gosh. [static] Boy. [speaker002:] It was, it was something really outrageous. [speaker001:] Yeah [child talking]. Boy. Well, I mean and it seems like it, it rarely does happen. You know, it's not, it's not used that often [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know. At least here in Texas but I think it's something that needs to stay. I really do [faint]. [speaker002:] I think in general, uh, [sigh] punishment in the United States is a lot weaker than it should be. I mean, it needs to be, you know, it's kind of like the, the justice system in the United States is kind of like the dog poops on the carpet and you wait three months and then you put his nose in it and spank him for it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know. I mean there, there's no connection between the two. [speaker001:] Right, right. Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean you take these, you know, most of the people who are committing violent crimes, most of them, not all by any means, but, you know, a large percentage are the kind of people who are living very much day to day in the first place. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, they don't really see past next week much less next year. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And to say, you know, well if I kill somebody then a decade from now, I might face the punishment. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That's not real. It doesn't have any real impact on them. [speaker001:] My sister and I were wondering about this recently because a, an old friend of ours in California, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] this happened about a week ago. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, her husband just killed her and we're wondering if that has an effect. If that, if something, does capital punishment, you know, does it happen with that, within that, uh, I don't know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, you mean, would he be put to death for that? [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Uh, [sigh] largely depends on the circumstances and generally, you know, from what I understand, it's, it's only the most [sigh] brutal types of things usually. Where it's multiple, you know. [speaker001:] I think you're right. [speaker002:] If, if they can say things like, you know, well he was just, you know, temporarily insane because of, [speaker001:] [Noise]. [speaker002:] some domestic squabble then [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, they'll, they'll give him, you know, twenty years with, with parole in, in twelve or something like that [talking]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, I have an uncle that is an attorney that defends people [child crying],

[speaker001:] so well you're you're you're you you take this subject much more personally than I do I suppose [speaker002:] I suppose I do because I've seen a lot of those changes the the changes that women have had in the last generation well you know not even the last generation the last fifteen years twenty years going from well [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] take it back thirty years I'm going back too far from my parents' generation when mom stayed home [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] period and and there was no such thing as a job or any hope of a job until well unless if you were educated you got you know you might teach for a year or two before you got married [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and if you really pushed it you taught until you had kids or something you know if you had if you were a teacher then you know that was it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] until the kids you were little [speaker001:] yeah you you weren't supposed to want a job [speaker002:] yes there was not there's not supposed to be any reason to use this education or this brain that you might have for anything other than your house and your children and how clean can the the bathroom floors be on any given day [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] and then and then of course today it's supposed to be all the other way you're supposed to only want the job and and uh your kids should be totally happy in day care because everybody else goes to day care and and we have these wonderful people who are [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] who are totally prepared to teach to teach your child everything they need to know in day care and [speaker001:] yeah but but [speaker002:] and uh we'll see how the generations go huh [speaker001:] but uh a really good day care is probably going to cost more than you're going to make at the job [speaker002:] yeah I at least for a lot of women depending on on what she did I've I was an engineer with uh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] mechanical engineer with T I and uh I did it for six years and for one well I had one while I was pregnant and then one while my oldest was a year old and and it just drove me crazy [speaker001:] did you [speaker002:] I could not do either well enough I couldn't put in enough overtime that was necessary or that you know things that would come up at work that would require me to stay late or to come in early or to do something on Saturdays [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] as is you know as is needed and because my husband had had for a long time was out of the country [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] also with uh with work for like three months and and [speaker001:] so it was you and the kid and your work schedule is well that's the thing see you know maybe if you get along for example if you'd been a technician instead of an engineer you know the technicians work the eight to five job and and know when they're going to be there [speaker002:] yeah yeah it might have been better yeah [speaker001:] but uh if you're going to be more professional professional oriented then you've got to have this to be able to perform well on the job you've got to have the flexibility that that doesn't really go with the family [speaker002:] yeah and so it was in my case I I just uh decided that as long as my kids were little I would be better off at home with them instead of driving myself crazy trying to do everything at once [speaker001:] um-hum so you figure one of these days you're going to go back to being an engineer is that what you think [speaker002:] well actually I've found out that I'm not going to go back to being an engineer I'm I'm I'm a photographer now [speaker001:] oh yeah oh okay you've found something else [speaker002:] I have I have branched out I was a photographer before but when I went to college it was I felt like I couldn't support myself if I decided to be a photographer [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] that it would just have to be a hobby and I'm I'm very mechanical and mechanical engineering interested me so I did that and then I you know I did that for six years and then I stayed home with my son and did nothing and found out that I was that you know it was great but I was bored part of the time too and I wanted something else [speaker001:] yeah yeah I mean you figure there's got to be more to life than sitting here playing with this child [speaker002:] to do yeah and it's it's great while they're really little but as they get older [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they're more independent and there's things to do then it's good for them to go to different I mean it he goes to a a mother's day out program now once a week both of my kids do [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and so they're getting they they get the socialization with other kids and you you know and not really school but but a different authority than mom once in a while you know and kind of learning how to deal with society [speaker001:] yeah and and they they need that you know to be able to relate to other people besides [speaker002:] yeah I think they do too [speaker001:] the same person every day [speaker002:] and I need it for the break so [speaker001:] yeah well that's the other thing you know they talk about women leaving the home and going out to work well still taking care of the children is a very important job and and someone's got to do it and be able to do it right and [speaker002:] um-hum and enjoy it that's that's the whole thing [speaker001:] and if it's not if it's not mom then then dad or somebody's got to move in there and do the job because the kids really need it [speaker002:] yeah yeah I think that's the thing that were going to see well I think the biggest thing we're going to see coming up in the next ten years even in the even now they're starting to do it but I think it's going to be more in the next ten to fifteen years is that there's going to be a lot of women and they're going to have to work it out to working part time [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] because if if I if I had been allowed to work you know maybe thirty hours a week instead of fifty hours a week I might still be working basically full time or part time if there was if there had been some way to work it out because I liked my job really well but I was just pulled in so many different directions I was it was just driving me crazy [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and now with the photography that's you know it's working that's what I'm doing is working part time because I can put my kids in a day care situation for a few hours in the uh week and and use those hours to do the the thing that I'm doing is taking school pictures [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] in day cares and in mother's day out programs and also soccer teams and you know different stuff like that so my kids [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] can be in day care for a few hours a week or my husband if it's you know and and when he's at home can take care of them [speaker001:] yeah so jobs have to I guess become more flexible [speaker002:] I think they're really going to have to and not and not just for mothers for fathers as well [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] it's going to have to be both [speaker001:] well so so that's another thing that has to adapt is you know the the the father's attitudes about you know whose whose job is this [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] well it's it's his job too and I to me the only important issue is the children because as far as housework goes you know men can do housework just as easily as women and thanks to a lot of new inventions housework doesn't take as much time as it used to so uh [speaker002:] you know it's just convincing your husband that's important or that that that it's important enough for him to do it because if he saw mom [speaker001:] to me yeah to yeah to me yeah well [speaker002:] doing only that you know all the time he was growing up then it's hard to think of it [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] in that other you know uh that I should do it or that or just to think about doing it rat her than having someone tell him to do it I know that was a big thing in our house for a long time was that if I wanted my husband to do something to help [speaker001:] and you you you yeah you talk yeah yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and even though we were both working the same number of hours and and doing things I had to come in there specifically and say this needs to be done this is what you do it now no [speaker001:] yeah and and a man might say out loud well you know I understand this and I agree but still he was raised with a mom taking care of him and and that's a very hard attitude to change [speaker002:] yes and yeah and without and and it's just they don't look at things most men don't walk into the kitchen and see that the dishes are there and that yes you probably ought to unload the dishwasher and load the new ones in and run it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they just you know just kind of scoot it on another spot on the on the sink and and put the next plate down and and in a while get around to it and I think most women walk in and and and with oh got to clean all this up got to get this out and this in and this you know taken care of instead of having someone say now this needs to be done this is the time this needs to be done but [speaker001:] hm uh um-hum yeah and a lot of that is is how it was drilled into you when you were a kid which brings us back to the idea you know someone's got to be there taking care of the kids to drill in these you know drill in the right ideas [speaker002:] that's right yeah um-hum yeah [speaker001:] to so that they know that uh you know male and female are both responsible for doing this and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] and I think that's that's going to show up a lot more now in the in the next generation of of boys and girls it's not they're not going to the boys in this next generation are not going to have to be told as much [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] this needs to be done because mom was there saying that dad is there you know you both got to they were both working at whatever things were [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] needed to be done they're going to say to the kids you need do this because it needs to be done not because it's a woman's job or a man's job but because it's dirty and it needs to be cleaned [speaker001:] um-hum yeah um-hum yeah but I think in between we got a a group of kids a generation of kids who didn't learn to take responsibility because mom left to go get a job and dad didn't move in to fill the gap and so basically no one was taking the responsibility and I I think that's happened in a lot of cases [speaker002:] and it's gonna it's gonna yeah some kids are really having it If they'd been in day care the entire time and it wasn't yeah the ones that are now getting to be teenagers and in some cases young college [speaker001:] yeah um-hum um you know some time day care is really good but sometimes it's just it's baby sitting it's someone you know keeping an eye on the kids but the kids are basically doing what they want and not really having any [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] relationship with the adults to say you know here's what's right and here's what's wrong and and here's what we expect of you [speaker002:] yeah I think that was one of the main reasons that I quit was because I wanted my kids to have my values and I felt like when they were young that was the time to instill it that it could be it could be added to and strengthened as they grew older but when they were little [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know this is the way I feel about this and this is the way because I it's you know when you when you if you if you teach them when they're little the way you want them to be and the things that are important to you then you just you add onto it as they get older [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but if no one does anything when they're little then it's twice as hard as I think as they get older [speaker001:] yeah I'm I'm saying this as I'm trying to keep my nine month old from trashing something [speaker002:] yes I understand I I wait until I put mine in bed before I make my calls [speaker001:] yeah well she's usually in bed by this time but she's staying up late tonight but yeah you know I want to I want to have a relationship with her you know my my dad was a very traditional dad and when I was a child I didn't really know my dad very well and I miss that [speaker002:] yeah that's the thing if woman's role like we said if women's roles change drastically men's roles will too and a lot of it's for the better some of the some of the women's roles I think are almost for the worse because we're losing out on some things going back to work [speaker001:] and I want yeah the men have to be convinced of that [speaker002:] but I think if we can if we can expand the men's roles at the same time like your taking care of your child and your dad probably didn't very often I know I know mine almost never did [speaker001:] no

[speaker001:] Well, how many credit cards do you have? [speaker002:] Um, I've only, I've got about four maybe. I try to limit them because I, well one, I don't use them too much. And I use my Visa just for abou-, for about everything, and I pay it all off. So I try not to, I just use it for free money for thirty days basically. [speaker001:] Sounds like we have no conflict. We had, for a while I was carrying one card and my wife was carrying a different one. And since the slips all look alike, uh, you commingle them and then you get the statement and you try to sort them out, uh, and it, uh, [LAUGHTER] it caused more confusion about it. I finally said, Gee, this is kind of a waste of time. And then when A T and T came along and offered a free one, uh, I accepted that, and we've been using that one. Uh, the interesting thing is, is that, uh, the amount of money you can can run up on them. I don't know, do you know any people that run up big, big bills? [speaker002:] I'm, I'm you know, I'm in the age group you get out of college, and I think a lot of these people have them maxed out. [speaker001:] Well, did, um, were you able to get one while you're in college? [speaker002:] Um, I don't think I ever tried. [speaker001:] Just curious, because I have a son that's a senior this year, and he's heading off, with any kind of luck, but there has been, I've had a couple of ads for, for, for to provide a card for a college student. Uh, what do you think about the idea of providing one for somebody like that? [speaker002:] Um, well, [throat clearing] yeah, I, I, you know, it's, you know, feasible, I mean, I know a lot of college kids who have them, you know, who had them, but just depends. [speaker001:] Well, that, that, that, I guess from the, from the card issuer, uh, that since, since it's, it's in, mo-, the parent gets it for them, that really the parent becomes the one that's responsible, but it's, [speaker002:] Yeah, so basically if you want to take the risk [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yes, it's whether the parent wants to take the risk. [speaker002:] It's your risk, do you trust, your, your son, [speaker001:] Yeah, to, to go run up a big bill and, the thing is, there some advantages, if he got off [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] some place and stranded. I, I'm, I'm leaning towards doing it [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for, for conven-, [speaker002:] I'd say, do-, you know, have one with, you know [speaker001:] a convenience, [speaker002:] at least a thousand dollar credit limit or something. [speaker001:] Yeah, and the idea that, you know, if he got in trouble, there's some, some ways of getting out, and that he doesn't have to carry cash. The, uh, I, I like the idea of credit cards that, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't carry cash around, and, and, uh, I don't even carry checks around. I let my wife take the checkbook, and she writes the checks, and I record them. So it's, uh, it's, uh, it's, but it's interesting that, uh, the people that can, that can, uh, the amounts of money you can run up wi-, on, on credit cards, and, uh, I, I had recently had some dealings with a fellow that they had run up, he was making, oh, considered a modest salary for an engineer, and he had run up, uh, more than a years salary in, in various debts to, and he wound up declaring bankruptcy but there, it, it's hard to believe that you'd run up twenty, thirty thousand dollars of, uh, well, it was a combination of things [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] he had, there were, there were several credit cards, and then there were several other businesses, but, uh. I, I guess what's interesting, have you seen the, the, the, the ads where they're offering to extend payments from, uh, things like, uh, like the credit union's offering, *should be more than 1 slash unit [speaker002:] The, the extended loan payment for your car. [speaker001:] Yes, yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. I saw that. [speaker001:] The interesting thing about that is, is that, uh, that, that they're encouraging you to incur more, incur more debt, and, [speaker002:] Well, it's, it's, it's business, and they're making money off that. [speaker001:] And they make more money if you extend your loan. [speaker002:] Yeah, and, and it's, so it's business, so, and you notice that they're, they're only going to do it to like cars that are one or two years old. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] And so they've already shifted the risk. If they assume that car, then they just have to sell it themselves, and they'll recover the loan, [speaker001:] And they know that people own a car that new unless absolutely die of service *listen; can't be right transcription they're not going to keep on if the car were older. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] The interesting thing about it is is that from a, uh, uh, an economy standpoint or in economics, I, I thinks it's, I think it's poor, poor, uh, economics to, to carry all that consumer debt [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] at least from a tax standpoint, so. It's interesting that, that the American public is encouraged to incur all that debt and then next year none of it will be deductible, and this year it's ten percent or so. [speaker002:] Yeah, uh. [speaker001:] It's, uh, it's interesting that, that, uh, they encourage us to do things, [speaker002:] What, now what's ten percent, we can deduct, [speaker001:] I think ten percent, yes. [speaker002:] I didn't know that. [speaker001:] Of your, of your consumer credit. Oh, if you had a thousand dollars, that means there's another hundred dollar deduction I've given you. [speaker002:] I didn't think you could, any thing on a loan or, [speaker001:] Yeah, it's on, uh, yeah. [speaker002:] I mean a mortgage I know you can, [speaker001:] Yeah, on the, the, there's, there's, there's a place for consumer debt and then you take ten percent of it, on the, [speaker002:] Oh, I've never itemized yet. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, [speaker002:] So maybe that's. [speaker001:] It's on schedule, um, [speaker002:] Schedule A or, [speaker001:] Schedule A under, uh, well, it's the same place, it's the same place you put, uh, interest. But, but see that's what, that's what makes Texas squirrelly laws that you can't, you can't take out a, a second mortgage, like some states where you can take out the mortgage and declare that, and so, uh, it's fully deductible. The laws are a little squirrelly, but it basically comes down to it's not in your best interest to borrow money from a tax standpoint. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, uh, anyway, [speaker002:] Yeah, I try, I, I really do, I just try to stay out of debt, and I, and I use my Visa for, for as much as I can, and I pay it all off, and, [speaker001:] Sounds like you're, you're very respon-, very financially responsible. It's, uh, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That's, uh, there're a lot of people who really run, my boss drives quite a ways to work, and he's got just enormous debts, and he's, but, I mean, what do you say, it's like, Shucks, [LAUGHTER] Boss, I'm sure sorry you've got all that debt. Well, he's had, had two kids in college and, and this kind of thing, and that [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I think that the whole credit card issue, I think they certainly encourage people to run up the debts and, but I agree with you [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't, I my debts. Well, I did buy a new house last summer. [speaker002:] [Throat clearing] Hell, I took a five year note out on my car when I, right when I got out of college, and, uh, I'll never do that again. I still got a couple of years on it to go, and I'm, [speaker001:] It's, it's remarkable how many people as soon as they get out of college buy a new car, and that, uh, apparently that's been going on for a really long time. I didn't do it. I, I bought a second hand car when I was, the middle of my senior year. [speaker002:] Well, you, you think you're starting out well, until you start paying all those bills. [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] Uh, apartment rent, and, [speaker001:] Miscellaneous things like food and [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] other things, these habits you get into, eating and, and, uh, it's, it's, it's amazing how it, what you learn. [speaker002:] Yeah, so. [speaker001:] Well, anything else good to say about credit cards? [speaker002:] Um [speaker001:] I might just, [speaker002:] you know, they're convenient, you know, that's probably one big thing about them, and, uh, [speaker001:] You don't have to carry the cash, and, and, uh, and it's, it's, it's certainly accepted more places than, the places, you know, it's hard to cash a check if you're out of state, and, [speaker002:] Yeah, well, I was used to using my credit card, like at Skaggs Alpha Beta in Dallas, and stuff [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and now I'm out here in Phoenix. [speaker001:] They don't allow, they don't do tha-, [speaker002:] They, they, none of these grocery stores take any credit cards, so now I have to carry cash when I go to the grocery store, which is new to me, you know, I got to have sixty bucks on me or something. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, uh [speaker001:] Carry all that cash with you. [speaker002:] that was interesting, cause I always, you know, you [speaker001:] Well, you know they, they [speaker002:] didn't have to worry about carrying that much unless I knew I, [speaker001:] they've started towards a little bit of the debit card, have you seen the debit cards where they actually debit your account when you, [speaker002:] Yeah, I've heard about them. [speaker001:] Yeah, and I think that's where, [speaker002:] That's mostly locally, the banks will line up with, uh. [speaker001:] Yeah, I've seen a couple, although the, so many of the grocery stores don't do that because of the, the time frame which they get paid, in general, that, uh, they, I've seen checks deposited the very next day, I mean, cleared my account the next day. My wife will write a check for groceries and, you know, almost, well I guess it's the day after, uh, technically it's two days, but the-, the-, they took that check and scurried it to the bank and the bank scurried it back to my account, and you thought there'd be just a little bit of float, but apparently that's why the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, grocery stores are reluctant to do that, because their volume, that is quite high, and they have, uh, the costability of the cash flow is a big issue for them. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Anyway. Well, it's good talking to you. [speaker002:] All righty. [speaker001:] Maybe we'll get across, we'll cross paths again. Good night. [speaker002:] All righty. Take it easy.

[speaker001:] okay I work for a temporary service and so our benefits are a lot more limited than what you would have if you worked a regular full time job [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] we have to work a certain number of hours and then we get holiday pay and vacation pay and they if you [speaker002:] so do you you say you work for a temporary but do you work full time hours doing that [speaker001:] um I could if I wanted to I'd I'm not right now [speaker002:] um-hum they but do they uh determine your benefits on whether or not you do work those hours or [speaker001:] um I have been yeah you like you have to work twelve hundred hours um within a year to get holiday pay and fifteen hundred hours within a year to get vacation pay so if you're not working enough hours to get that much time in in a year then you don't get the benefit [speaker002:] then they uh adjust it accordingly [speaker001:] yeah yeah you don't get anything at all [speaker002:] my uh husband works for a a large oil company and they uh and in the past has worked for a computer company and a bank so we've always uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] always had access to to good benefits as far as insurance and and usually some dental and life insurance and that kind of thing you know and [speaker001:] right yeah my husband has good benefits too or I probably wouldn't be able to do the temporary work [speaker002:] yeah exactly [speaker001:] I think medical is probably one of the most important things [speaker002:] I know uh here sometime back you know they had had had given him a printout you know of uh [speaker001:] to have [speaker002:] money that the company had paid into stock in his name and how much he'd paid and um the medical benefits and whatnot that uh he was entitled to and they estimated those benefits at about forty percent of his salary [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] even including vacation like you said and paid holidays and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh all of those things now some of those you look at and you say well I'm not going to need that or use that benefit but I guess it's there knowing that it could be used if you [speaker001:] yeah those must be pretty good benefits I've heard that usually they average about thirty percent of your salary so it sounds like maybe his company's a little bit better [speaker002:] so chose yeah yeah I uh we've always been dealt fairly with that way and I would certainly you know caution any young person going into you know looking at jobs to make sure that they truly know what those benefits are and how they're going to match up and it might be wise to take a lower salary or hourly wage if you knew that uh long term the you were going to get more of a profit sharing or you know or just you know [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] whatever you know the differences in the you know in the benefits we belong to an HMO through my husband's work is do you is that the kind of medical you have [speaker001:] uh no fortunately we still have the it's just regular traveler's insurance that my husband has so we can go anywhere [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I guess that's good I don't know uh I can't decide [speaker002:] well we uh we have five children so it's been good for us to uh to have the HMO for the most part [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] we're in a different one now than we used to be and it's required some adjustment but I think it in the end it will all come out in the wash their uh mental health benefits are very very low and anything that is elective of in any way could possibly be conceived as elective is you know not covered so [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] if you have those kinds of services that while the general public may see them as elective you don't see them as elective [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] then uh you know uh you know you may not get the coverage that's you might have [speaker001:] yeah my husband works for a psych hospital and I know that they sometimes have to discharge people before they're really ready because their insurance won't let them stay any longer it frustrates him because they'll just be getting somebody to the point where they can really make some progress and then they're gone [speaker002:] uh-huh that's right that's right and I know that that is a is a concern and if those people aren't willing to go to outpatient you know therapy or something then that benefit is what what was paid is almost wasted [speaker001:] yeah really [speaker002:] and uh well I mean I guess you can't ever totally say that but you know the best good was not gleaned from the money spent where as maybe even two weeks longer would have made a difference there should be some provision for appeal or something I guess [speaker001:] right yeah yeah do you uh [speaker002:] need [speaker001:] does your husband's company have any of the new like a cafeteria plan where he gets to pick and chose any of his benefits [speaker002:] well yes I guess so you know uh but not uh not really you know there're there are some options in in every area whether it's medical or uh you know insurance or you know as a stock you know savings kind of plan that's subsidized by the company and that kind of thing so [speaker001:] right yeah that's one thing I wish that we had was like a 401K plan or one of those things were they matched what you could save those are really good deals [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah yeah we have been so grateful for that over the years because we uh uh that that's what our kids are going to go to college on I guess so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know it's good that [speaker001:] that or retire I don't think we can plan on social security taking care of us so [speaker002:] no I don't think so I think there're going to be too many of us our age for any way that that system can possibly even barely lessen the load we just better be those of us who can try to do something anything to put away for hopefully we won't have such a attitude in our country about elderly people not being able to work and not being smart enough to lend a hand by the time we get there too [speaker001:] yeah with what they say about how the population's changing I think attitudes' ll have to change to go along with that [speaker002:] yeah exactly so it's going to we're going to see a lot of changes in the next while [speaker001:] and that'll probably change the insurance benefits too as people get older and still work and [speaker002:] I would think so don't you think yeah [speaker001:] they'll need more health care [speaker002:] I know uh my mother-in-law has had to get individual insurance the last couple of years and she's seventy two [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] and uh it's just been so difficult to get uh you know to get anything [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh [speaker001:] does that just supplement like Medicare Medicare or [speaker002:] yeah yeah uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] like that so but you know I would say that overall we've been very luck and are very happy you know if if I had to [speaker001:] yeah that's good see I my husband been self-employed and he's worked for uh like a small companies and now he's in a little bit bigger company so we've seen a little bit of every kind of benefit you can have [speaker002:] you kno w um-hum yeah yeah I I work for part-time for a man who's self-employed and gosh you know he and his family he doesn't do anything for me you know because I have what I need through my husband but uh it sure is rough for him it's providing for his family [speaker001:] right yeah when we when he was self self-employed and we had to get our own insurance to get maternity benefits was just ridiculous I mean you could you might as well have saved the money you paid every month and paid your own hospital bill at the end of the year or something [speaker002:] oh I know it yeah but you never know if you could have had that catastrophic thing happen to you know you or your baby where you'd need [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] need somebody to jump in and take over those payments [speaker001:] yeah yeah it's scary [speaker002:] yeah it sure is well I appreciate getting to visit with you [speaker001:] well it was good talking to you [speaker002:] take care bye now [speaker001:] you too bye

[speaker001:] okay Jay I was thinking about um this topic and I was remembering that guy that does an advertisement on the radio about drug testing and marijuana whether or not marijuana causes any trouble or not and he was saying how the train had wrecked [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] because the guy had been under the influence and he said whether you think you know you might think that it doesn't effect anybody but it does [speaker002:] right exactly [speaker001:] so I think it's a good idea is what I'm trying to say [speaker002:] well I I do too and uh uh I work for Texas Instruments and and they have a mandatory drug testing before you hire in and uh I enjoy that environment I I want to be in in a you know drug free environment and I think that's a great way of uh of promoting it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] is to have the drug testing [speaker001:] no I can see now when you've been there a while though they were talking about random testing it seems like if there's no reason to suspect you [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] that I might be offended if they asked me to come in and be tested you know what I mean [speaker002:] would you see TI just started that policy uh they they have a random uh drug testing policy and uh uh it's random in the fact that you don't know when you're going to be called but everybody will be called [speaker001:] and how often are they doing it [speaker002:] and uh you mean like uh how how often would you be called up [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh you may be called up twenty times and one person will only be called up once but uh [speaker001:] you mean in a year's time or what [speaker002:] uh over the whole process I this' ll be an ongoing uh process uh from now on but in uh a year's time you might be called up I don't know twice or three times and nobody called up any uh but uh the way they have it set up or the way I understand is that they want everyone they've got it set up where all current employees uh will be called on a random basis but uh you know it's very likely that some may be called more uh more than others [speaker001:] uh-huh because they'd be suspect or what [speaker002:] no just because of the random process of it and uh I don't know they did talked about the the statistics of it and how they've tried to figure out uh you know to eliminate those problems but anytime it's uh it's a purely random sample uh you will have people called more more than others [speaker001:] uh-huh well how do you feel about that [speaker002:] but I'm I'm all for it because uh you know uh I want a a drug free environment I don't want a uh even though I do work in the the office I'm uh a financial analyst I'm probably in no danger as far as any chemicals or anything uh or machinery but I still want people in the in the office uh to have a professional demeanor about them and uh and not be under the influence influence when they come in to work and you know I guess if they have the urge and and have that habit they can do that on their own time but uh I feel like when when we're at work uh you know it's a team atmosphere and I I think that would distract from the team [speaker001:] what if they did it though on their own time and it's still it stays in your body for such a long time [speaker002:] well that's that's true and and to me they're still under under the influence if it's in their body and uh I don't know I that's I have a strong feeling that I'm against drugs and so if uh anyone is using drugs uh uh and it's in their system when they're tested then uh you know and TI has uh a pretty uh liberal they if you're tested positive then they automatically uh test you again and uh if that one comes back positive then they send you to a uh a drug rehab which TI pays for and uh [speaker001:] oh that's real good that's real good [speaker002:] uh huh what's that [speaker001:] drug rehab and they'll send you to it so if they did have a problem they can get over it I agree with that [speaker002:] right and uh uh so they send you to that and then they monitor you I I believe on a weekly basis you have to go in and take a test for and this goes on for several months [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh if they if you can prove to them that you've I don't know cleaned your act up or whatever then then uh they won't terminate you but any any time during that time if they do uh if you do test positive then uh it's automatic termination [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so uh [speaker001:] did you see that special about uh all these people that work on the road crews they're putting these bridges up and so many of them had tested positive for drugs and they they haven't been putting these bridges together correctly and like yeah and then uh on the lines for putting your automobiles together same thing they're under the influence and they're not doing the job right [speaker002:] are you serious right [speaker001:] now that's scary isn't it [speaker002:] oh man that's right well and you know the same could be true at TI if somebody's putting a missile together and they uh you know mess it up and then that puts maybe a pilot or somebody at jeopardy and uh I don't know I [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I think any more that uh drugs are so prevalent you know in our society that that uh it may be up to the the work place to help try to control it because it doesn't seem like any where else uh you know we're getting that assistance because in schools you know I I would hate to have a child young child right now because I think this is going to be a tough tough period for young kids with uh you know the drugs as rampant as they are [speaker001:] uh-huh well I've got an eleven year old son and an eight year old daughter and my son says I don't understand this drug stuff why don't people understand all you have to do is say no [speaker002:] I see [speaker001:] you know and he doesn't realize the pressure that he's going to be under later when his friends start doing this [speaker002:] right exactly or uh uh an older peer will come up to him and and uh try to try to get him hooked on it so that he'll start selling it or something you know and uh I know uh you know just growing up [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I really looked up to the older guys you know especially if they played football or basketball or whatever and and uh I know that uh you know it'd be real easy to be influenced by by someone like that [speaker001:] well I teach and last year a student that I'd had the year before so he would have been in third grade came to school with ice [speaker002:] right golly now is this uh cocaine type [speaker001:] and I mean it I don't I don't know what it is it's supposed to be uh real inexpensive I know that [speaker002:] oh it is huh [speaker001:] and anyway he's he's like a special ed child [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know and I could see he was probably selling it for these other people and we were doing these posters uh for drug antidrug campaign and all these little first graders were always drawing these pictures of ice cream trucks [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and the teacher started talking to them and they said that they were selling drugs out of ice cream trucks now [speaker002:] golly that is terrible but I mean that makes sense because uh that's where all the uh the kids are you know you have the easy access to them and uh you know uh that'd make you know that would be a logical [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I tell you what these drug dealers are about the best business people there are because uh they know who the market is and they know exactly how to get to the market if uh if other businesses could do half as good as they do then uh there'd be some very profitable businesses but unfortunately they prey on prey on the young kids [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but I don't know [speaker001:] so you think we should do this in every profession [speaker002:] uh the drug testing [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I do uh I know where my father works he he works for a government contractor also and uh uh I believe any time you have a D O uh Department of Defense contract you have to have the drug testing and uh you know like uh uh athletes are starting to uh to test them for drugs so I I beli eve that it should be you know uh widespread and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] that everyone should be tested what do you think [speaker001:] I don't know some jobs it seems like it would just maybe be a waste of money because who cares you know I mean like I don't know [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] what one would be an example like should I say postal service or not I mean are they going to screw up on mail [speaker002:] like what about your right right well what about uh teaching uh your profession [speaker001:] do I think they should [speaker002:] do you think they should in in that profession [speaker001:] well see I don't really see the need of it you know how many elementary school teachers do you think are going to be on drugs [speaker002:] right uh I guess the only the only concern I'd have [speaker001:] you might feel like you need it by the end of the day but I don't know it would cost so much money and I think maybe we could use that money in the schools you know to buy paper or something [speaker002:] right exactly I guess so somewhere else right [speaker001:] especially since we're going to cut [speaker002:] you know I guess the only fear I would have would be that uh you know if I had a child uh that one in a million first grade teachers that would be on drugs my child would be in their class you know and and [speaker001:] well you know that's true and in teaching you don't get rid of a teacher very easy you know they'd be there [speaker002:] that's right and and and teachers are very influential too

[speaker001:] so David uh what are the capital punishment laws down in the state of Florida [speaker002:] they have the electric chair I believe remember Ted Bundy [speaker001:] oh that's right [speaker002:] couple years ago they were all down there saying fry him [speaker001:] oh so the laws are still intact then [speaker002:] oh yeah they yeah they use that all the time well not all the time is you know it it it's always backlogged it usually takes a guy usually a guy sits on death row for three or four years at least before they put him you know in the actual actual electric chair [speaker001:] um-hum and I imagine that costs a small bundle too [speaker002:] yeah he always gets all these appeals and everything [speaker001:] go through the court process [speaker002:] he gets all these appeals and everything uh as far as it being a deterrent to people I don't think it's a deterrent a deterrent uh I think it's I think it's more for the families more than anything the families probably get some justification out of it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but uh as far as it deterring anybody from committing murder or something like that I don't think it really does [speaker001:] no but I think it does serve a valuable purpose in the sense that the victims get some sort of satisfaction the community doesn't pay for the burden of having a [speaker002:] the victims can [speaker001:] a prisoner in jail for twenty years [speaker002:] that's right that's right [speaker001:] you know and having to supply them with a color TV and um books and education so forth [speaker002:] right I mean what is it how much is it a year to keep a prisoner it's like twenty thousand a year to food and clothe a prisoner some ridiculous price [speaker001:] and I imagine it probably costs a great deal amount of money to to even go through the process of trying to electrocute someone [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] to the court proceum I mean it tying up attorney's time uh times the court system [speaker002:] yeah I don't know how many appeals Ted Bundy had uh they just keep appealing it and appealing it to the next higher next higher you know just keeps they keep going higher and higher up and uh you know it does take a long time it takes money of course to do that so and it's a public defender most of the time so [speaker001:] um-hum well how do you feel about that do you are you in favor of capital punishment as a [speaker002:] yeah yes I am I am in favor of it but as far as it being an actual deterrent to crime I don't think it is like I said it's mostly for the families benefit I think or the victims [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh the you know the family of the victims do you guys have it up there where where'd you say you were from [speaker001:] yeah I'm from New Hampshire [speaker002:] okay New Hampshire they have it up there [speaker001:] yeah as far as I remember we don't have it um I know there hasn't been anyone executed up here probably in about thirty forty years which is ironic because we come from very conservative state uh very strong on on punishment and crime um it uh during one thing we don't really have that that much crime up here when we do have a celebrated case like Pamela Smart I don't know if you heard about that [speaker002:] that's the schoolteacher one [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I saw the movie about that [speaker001:] yeah that's a case where um she's probably guilty I don't think there's enough evidence there to convict her I mean to uh execute her [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I think if because once you execute someone the the the decision the decision is final you can't really reverse the process um [speaker002:] well that is the bad thing about it and I'm I'm sure that back in the old days they they put to death a couple innocent ones during the process but they're but they're uh opinion was well if you got few few innocent people have to die to protect the majority then that's okay you know I don't I don't necessarily agree with that [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I don't agree with that either I think if you kill someone who's innocent that's uh [speaker002:] it screwed up the whole thing in my opinion yeah I agree with you there [speaker001:] somebody you can't even live with if they you you really need to you know case where John Hinkley tried to assassinate the President uh [speaker002:] that's pretty obvious that's open and shut isn't it [speaker001:] right and if he had succeeded uh uh without a doubt he should be executed executed [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] uh whether he's insane or not [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] same thing with Dahlmer I mean he killed seventeen people [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh it's it's a shame that we're gonna have to pay for him [speaker002:] now in his case now is that that's Minnesota right [speaker001:] what's that [speaker002:] is that Minnesota [speaker001:] I think uh Michigan or somewhere somewhere around there [speaker002:] or Wisconsin or ah maybe it's Wisconsin yeah they they might have capital punishment the thing with people like that they like to take and study them put them in jail and do studies on them like that so that's they can try to get a profile of his personality I think you know and I guess in states where they don't have capital punishment that's the kind of stuff they do but I think in his case they will put him to death because all the all the kids you know all the families and stuff aren't going to tolerate it [speaker001:] yeah but I thought he he received his sentence um remember maybe what the what the final turnout was [speaker002:] what is the final uh is he still going to trial for that [speaker001:] I thought he went to rehabilitation rehabilitation mean they they were going to put him in rehabilitation for a few years then prison for the rest of his life [speaker002:] that's right because he's definitely insane I think they proved that he was insane and maybe that's maybe that was uh what got him off or made him uh not get the death penalty because they can prove that he's insane then I I don't think you get the death penalty but the the but the uh prosecution was trying to uh say that he was sane when he committed them so they could but they they were going for the death penalty I think that's what they were trying to uh I mean the they knew he did it that he was guilty it was just a matter of was he going to get the death penalty or life in prison [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] yeah I think the families wanted him to get death [speaker001:] yeah I think that's a a case where there really needs to be some change in the laws to allow for flexibility I think if one person kills another person out of

[speaker001:] uh subject is gun control uh do you own any guns [speaker002:] yeah uh besides a a a BB gun no um a lot of my family owns a lot of guns and stuff and I I have a lot of friends that do also a lot of my friends are really into guns as far as knowing the specifications of every gun there is just about [speaker001:] yeah yeah I know the sort I'm not much into guns myself either I don't know I enjoy working with them from time to time but [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] um personal opinion there's a whole lot of weapons available on the market that really shouldn't be available at all [speaker002:] yeah that's that's my opinion is that some of these high powered handguns need to go out the window because they're obviously not for hunting [speaker001:] um yeah they've got [speaker002:] and a handgun was never designed for hunting [speaker001:] well very few of them it they do make some for bird hunting but still those aren't real high powered they're just you know small caliber with a long barrel on them [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] but uh no these and and these assault weapons with real short stock short barrels and [speaker002:] yeah these these the the nine millimeter the nine millimeter Glock to to top the charts [speaker001:] armor piercing ammunition [speaker002:] it's a it's a plastic automatic weapon that fires [speaker001:] yeah they sell them here at Wal-Mart three different models of Glock yeah [speaker002:] Wal-Mart wow wow [speaker001:] Wal-Mart sporting goods department here in town carries carries the Glock [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] they haven't got the the latest version but uh they've got them [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] something like seventeen rounds in a double wide clip [speaker002:] seventeen seventeen rounds of clip that fires by itself [speaker001:] craziness like that practically yeah [speaker002:] did did you hear about the the killing spree in Colleen over here in Texas [speaker001:] no no I didn't [speaker002:] we had a guy that went through a Luby's in Colleen and like killed twenty three people and injured a hundred plus others [speaker001:] Luby's [speaker002:] and then killed himself [speaker001:] what's a Luby's [speaker002:] uh it's a cafeteria or restaurant [speaker001:] oh wait yeah uh uh that's been several months ago [speaker002:] yeah several several months ago yeah [speaker001:] okay yeah I did hear about that and they weren't the least bit sure what happened what what set him off [speaker002:] that's that's what well nobody really knows what it was it was they determined that it was a a series of events over the years of some sort form of hatred of women and that's why he was mostly shooting women [speaker001:] oh see I hadn't heard anything about you know what the bulk of his victims were but [speaker002:] uh he was just a wacko [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but that shows you what a a a Glock automatic weapon will do [speaker001:] that's what he was using [speaker002:] yeah he had that and uh one other gun which I don't recall what it was [speaker001:] was it a rifle or a pistol [speaker002:] but the Glock oh the other gun it was another handgun [speaker001:] no no the the other gun okay no I hadn't I I hadn't heard what it was he was carrying all I knew is he'd been in there shooting I hadn't heard any about what he was carrying [speaker002:] yeah it was that's what it was he went around putting holes in anything he wanted to at whatever rate of speed he felt like [speaker001:] yeah I do know they have uh fast uh fast recovery [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh goodness well uh they [speaker002:] I I I also agree with the uh the seven day wait on handguns that's a [speaker001:] yeah probably ought to be longer than that really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] seven is probably as long as you can expect the law to to require [speaker002:] yeah at at the moment they want seven days and that's you know that's the best thing we got to work with go for it [speaker001:] yeah seven day wait waiting period and the check through the FBI files and [speaker002:] yeah because I I really can't understand why these legislatures wanna fight it unless they just don't have anything better to do [speaker001:] yeah yeah they ought to carry they ought anybody with a permit to carry a gun uh you ought to have a permit for any kind of gun you carry period [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] whether it's pistol or rifle or it doesn't matter and the permit you ought a ought to be required to keep it in your billfold at all times whether you got your gun with you or not like a driver's license [speaker002:] yeah you should have a a a permit to use it and a uh be trained on how to use it [speaker001:] yeah uh it's part of the problem with guns in general they got hundreds out there you know the only experience they got is the you know the last couple times they got about half looped and went out and the gun and went out in the woods and started blowing up bottles [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] every hunting season scares the stew out of me even just to drive by a section of woods bothers me a little bit because I know there's maniacs out there the first couple of days [speaker002:] um yeah my my dad has borrowed a uh thirty thirty from uh his uh nephew and is supposed to go hunting and I I'm really really kind of nervous about it myself because I don't want him to [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] go out there and get hurt [speaker001:] hm later on in the season it gets to be less of a problem especially

[speaker001:] do you have a pet [speaker002:] yes we have two too many at the moment um [speaker001:] what all do you have [speaker002:] well we have a um a dog as a golden lab and a um cat and they're both driving us crazy actually they're uh [speaker001:] huh lot of work [speaker002:] just a just a lot of work and the kids seem to be in so many activities that the reason for having the pets were you know for them and they don't seem to have the time to to care for them so we're at a frustration point with our pets how about you [speaker001:] um-hum I know how that it is because until like a few days ago I had a little Miniature Pinscher [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and um my parents finally took him to Miami where they are [speaker002:] what [speaker001:] and um it was kind of a pain because I was taking these classes after work so I couldn't leave my dog locked up you know all day and then all night so I'm glad they took him [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] because otherwise I would have a big mess in my apartment when I'd come home you know [speaker002:] that's for sure they're they're a big responsibility they're really fun for especially for the kids if they have the time to enjoy them but [speaker001:] so um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] boy uh it's a lot of work it seems [speaker001:] um-hum but I'm I'm single so it would keep me company [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] you know there's something you to come home to and happy to see you [speaker002:] well I I enjoy mine if my husband's out of town I enjoy having the dog just for you know he'll he'll bark if anyone comes around or [speaker001:] um-hum protection um-hum [speaker002:] that sort of thing so it is a comfort from that standpoint [speaker001:] um-hum do the cat and the dog get along or [speaker002:] yeah they do they um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they get along fine but the cat doesn't get along with anyone in the family she every time you walk by she grabs attacks your leg and just hangs on and we've had cats before we've never had one like this so I I don't know what the deal is with this cat [speaker001:] huh did you find it or did you buy it or huh [speaker002:] no it was a gift someone gave it to us for my daughter's birthday so um [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and we you know we had been looking for one so we were hoping to get one but this this one is kind of been a problem we live across the street from a vet and he just can't quite figure it out either so [speaker001:] hm um-hum it is kind of strange I wonder where they got the the cat from [speaker002:] it was um from uh um Wills Point I don't know if you're familiar with [speaker001:] huh-uh [speaker002:] the town you know just outside Dallas and knew somebody that lived in the country so we're wondering if maybe if they were kind of a country outside breed you know um [speaker001:] huh um um-hum [speaker002:] maybe they're just a little too wild or something [speaker001:] um-hum because that's what I was wondering if you found it or not because it sounded pretty wild [speaker002:] yeah well [speaker001:] huh that's interesting [speaker002:] but um [speaker001:] does your husband hunt with the dog or anything or [speaker002:] no no he's not a hunter he he's always liked having big dogs but um doesn't work real well in the city with small yard [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] when we um when we get got the dog we lived out in the country and she could just run and that was fine that that worked real well [speaker001:] yep oh how neat um-hum [speaker002:] but now that we're in the city it's kind of hard yeah [speaker001:] hm how long have you been living where you live [speaker002:] um we've moved here in January [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so just not quite a year um you said you're going to school [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yep I I'm just at the Albany Easy Learning Center [speaker002:] work uh-huh [speaker001:] um I'm just taking education and psychology courses I'm a teacher and I have a bachelor's in psychology so I'm just trying to brush up on stuff to be a better teacher [speaker002:] oh good yeah oh well that's good well I I bet your your kids do you have pets in your classroom or you don't [speaker001:] um-hum hum-um nope downstairs they have a gerbil and a [speaker002:] a what [speaker001:] fish I think like a gerbil and a fish but in our particular classroom we don't have anything we have plants [speaker002:] yeah yeah seems like our kids have mostly had um guinea pigs and that sort of thing in their classrooms and that's kind of neat you know um the whole class gets to take turns taking it home and [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum hm [speaker002:] and that so a little visiting pet you can you can uh have the fun of it without the total responsibility [speaker001:] um-hum yep [speaker002:] but that's worked well [speaker001:] can just mess up it's cage you don't have to worry about your whole apartment [speaker002:] right really [speaker001:] yep um have you been trying to call in lately and it's been the same topic [speaker002:] no um let's see I'm trying to think the last time I called in was probably um [speaker001:] no [speaker002:] few days ago it was cooking or something [speaker001:] it was what [speaker002:] cooking yeah [speaker001:] really because I've been calling in lately and this is uh my last call that I have to make I think [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and um every single day for probably about a week it was gun control [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] gun control and I was just about to freak out you know because I already talked with someone about gun control [speaker002:] get tired of gun control huh [speaker001:] uh-huh you only can talk so much about gun control so hm [speaker002:] this is true yeah well um-hum well do we go until they cut us off or

[speaker001:] [Talking] Okay. Well, uh, just briefly. Uh, I worked in a nursing home so I kind of know, from way back, uh, how things used to be run and I think there has been definite changes of nursing homes but I think, uh, if I had to personally put one of my parents in a nursing home, they would have to be pretty bad off to where I couldn't take care of them at all. It would be something that, [clicking] you know, I would certainly, [talking] if they're forgetting things or whatever, I'd prefer to have them at home or have them in what they call now home care [speaker002:] [Breathing] [TV] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] where somebody comes in and they cook meals and they clean their house for them, that kind of thing, so they still have their own independence and not reliable, you know, [clicking] they don't have to be in a nursing home situation. But, uh, I don't think the nursing homes, when I was working in them, were very much understaffed, very much, uh, in need of good personnel. Uh, I think the patients weren't given the quality of care that I wouldn't have, you know, I look at it and say thank God, I got out of that kind of situation. But [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] they, they were not given the time and they were not given the money, basically, to staff, appropriately, people to help. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I can remember lifting a patient all by myself, simply because there was not another person to help. It's either le-, leave the patient in bed all day long or get them up and I would have preferred to get them up than [LAUGHTER] to leave them in bed all day. But, uh, uh, so I think nursing homes are, have changed. I'm not quite sure, but hopefully, they have. [speaker002:] Yeah, wel-, th-, I guess I haven't had that much experience. I've only seen like my great grandparents in a nursing home [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I have an aunt who lived on her own until she was well in her nineties [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] and then she, she got sick and she ended up in nursing home [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and my parents went to visit her and it got to the point where the nur-, it seemed like the nursing home didn't want to deal wi-, her anymore [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] and so they gave her drugs to keep her asleep. [speaker001:] Yeah. I, I think that's, that can happen and I think in the nursing home that I worked for, I wasn't quite sure of it, but I'm sure that some of the patients were, uh, given medication to keep them in, uh, quiet and, and, [speaker002:] Nice sedative state. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. And they would just lay all day long and, uh, the ones tha-, they also put mentally ill patients in the same, they were not on the same, you know, ward, but they, they were in the same nursing home so that these mentally ill patients could walk into where the other, uh, older people that were in there for reasons of, uh, you know age, uh, the mentally ill patients could walk right in, into the rooms or do whatever they wanted to basically. Because if you weren't there to watch them and keep them in their own wing, they could, they had freedom to just walk around and a lot of them were, I think there was a couple that were schizophrenic and I remember one time watching one of the, uh, schizophrenic patients actually go out on, I don't know what they call it, a binge or whatever you want to say it [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] she grabbed a hold of this, and it was kind of funny when I looked back at it, but, I mean, I remember the patient getting very upset. That woman actually pulled, uh, the other person's hair. I mean she just came up right behind him and pulled his hair, you know, and it was a guy that was just really upset. I mean he said what the hell are you think you're doing, you know, and I laughed at it then but then I'm thinking God, you know, if I had to put my parents in that nursing home, I wouldn't want them there. So [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I think there's laws now that kind of protect. That nursing homes either have to keep the mentally ill totally away from these people and not in the same type of facilities, even though they're aging mentally ill, they are still mentally ill and a lot of these older people have their, you know, they're not insane or anything like that. They don't have these tendencies to, to lash out. [speaker002:] To be violent. [speaker001:] But seeing that kind of made me think twice about, jeez, I wouldn't put my mother, father in that nursing home at all. [speaker002:] Was this in a big town or a little town? [speaker001:] A small town. [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] Because it seems like the small town nursing homes, there's a [speaker001:] I don't know. [speaker002:] lot more personal attention. [speaker001:] I don't know. I, I kind of look at it this way. I think if you have a big city area, I think there's more people to keep watch on it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. You have [speaker001:] And, [speaker002:] more options. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. And you have more competition. And I think nursing homes have to be better than when there's one nursing home for a whole community. And this is back in nineteen seventy-seven that I worked there [speaker002:] Uh-huh [breathing] [T V]. [speaker001:] and I look back at it and say jeez, you know, i-, it would have to be awfully bad for me to put my parents in there. But my grandmother, uh, later on got cancer and, uh, could no longer, well actually she,

[speaker001:] uh I don't know I can't give uh too good a perspective uh how things have changed in ten twenty or thirty years [speaker002:] well I guess uh I guess the first thing you know comes to mind would be how they've changed to the worst [speaker001:] yeah how so [speaker002:] in a lot of ways yeah well yeah I guess break down of the family unit for one thing [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the uh astounding drug use that's uh going on and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] pretty depressing if you start thinking about it I guess [speaker001:] yeah it's uh I don't know it's you know I lived in basically it's a suburb of Washington DC [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] um so I you know luckily I'm in a good area so you know I don't have to really deal with a lot of the problems that DC has to deal but uh you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh kids are you know kids are bringing in guns into the grade schools and high schools and stuff you know trying to kill others kids and you know it's it's it's outrageous you know [speaker002:] unbelievable [speaker001:] like like you hit the nail on the head probably that all comes from you know lack of a good family structure for this people you know they just [speaker002:] yeah I don't know which came first I don't know I think the drugs had a lot to do with it but [speaker001:] yeah yeah I don't you know [speaker002:] I don't know if that's a cause or an effect [speaker001:] yeah that's that's the tricky thing trying to separate figure out which is which um but I don't know you know it I don't think there was much of a problem until crack started hitting the streets really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah because that's cheap and incredibly addictive and uh you know that seems to be the target choice of the you know poor inter-city people cocaine and marijuana I don't they really were after that I don't think they really touch that that much [speaker002:] however on the brighter side cars seems to be performing a whole lot better [speaker001:] well that's true that's true uh would kill for a dodge viper a the moment uh a pretty nice car [speaker002:] yeah uh the uh why the computers in the engines you know they uh compensate the whatever problems come along until I just [speaker001:] um-hum I make six and I'm a bitch though [speaker002:] yeah it does I mean uh but uh I do have a lot a lot help with those computers you know the curves giving a lot of information diagnostic [speaker001:] yeah yeah but doesn't uh help the home mechanic that much unless they've got a uh you know some way to decode all that information [speaker002:] sounds like my wife's car I just got uh Cadillac a used one eighty six and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] had a few things she had to get fixed on it and we just so now you just pressed pressed a couple of the buttons up in the uh the air conditioning panel I think and uh and it reads out codes that way [speaker001:] um-hum hum [speaker002:] and then of course have to decipher them [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] with the little book I use [speaker001:] hum interesting [speaker002:] but uh yeah I don't know uh street gangs and all that kind of stuff just [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think it comes back to the you know that the family isn't fulfilling the role it used to [speaker001:] yeah I I think that's probably the key thing you know the key thing so you've got single mothers who are trying to raise kids and you know are off working all day and the kids are on their own you know that much guidance they're going to get into trouble and you know now good stable family structure uh keep them straight or you know father figure to look up to or anything [speaker002:] well they get so much information from the TV you know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh makes I think part of the parents you know party and so forth and stands in the fact that they were you know able to teach them and tell them about things that and now the kids probably know more than the parents in a lot of cases [speaker001:] yeah about somethings but I don't you know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] for the more important things about life I think uh a lot of kids are missing uh [speaker002:] right that's true [speaker001:] they're they're out for the the quick buck mentality you know who they gets defined by what kind of tennis shoes they wear and uh you know they they don't have really kind of deep personal values anymore you know what

[speaker002:] okay have you ever [speaker001:] your family have reunions on any regular basis [speaker002:] probably once every five years [speaker001:] once every five years [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] yeah um you have a pretty big family [speaker002:] yeah and the hardest part about getting the family the stuff together is everyone's spread out all over Timbuktu [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and you [speaker001:] yeah we've got a pretty big family but most of us live well I'm well I'm originally from West Virginia [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] most of the family is right in the West Virginia area uh what they call the Tristate area uh northern West Virginia Eastern Ohio and Southwestern Southwestern Pennsylvania [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] most everybody is right in that area [speaker002:] that makes it a lot easier a lot more convenient that's why we only do it once every five or ten years because it's like that hard to get everyone together [speaker001:] yeah yeah they put one together for our family about once every June it was on my grandmother's birthday but she's she's gone now [speaker002:] yeah see that's kind of what happened with ours that's why we hadn't had one in a long time [speaker001:] yeah um [speaker002:] so so to make one successful what I mean what do y'all do do y'all just start planning real far ahead of time [speaker001:] oh shoot pardon [speaker002:] do you um do y'all start planning real far ahead of time [speaker001:] well no there's kind of a set pattern to it there's uh so the day it happens is ninety eight percent of the planning usually [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah oh the we get together at the the uh the park uh the uh park and playground area of the church I was raised in [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh everybody brings lots of food and we'll put up a volleyball net just sit around and tell stories and catch up and play volleyball all day and get really fat [speaker002:] eat a lot see it's a lot harder for us because we're like I say we're spread out so they have to plan anywhere from six well really probably a year ahead of time so everyone can say um [speaker001:] oh goodness yeah scheduled vacation time [speaker002:] their their vacation time [speaker001:] yeah we usually just Saturday Saturday uh Sunday afternoon [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] or maybe sometimes it's been like on Saturday afternoon usually it's like Sunday afternoon and most people don't have more than you know a couple hours drive tops to get there and back [speaker002:] yeah now is that where you're I mean is [speaker001:] well where I'm calling from is southern Mississippi so we got a ways uh uh my wife and I have a bit longer ways to go than most [speaker002:] but y'all still manage to make them [speaker001:] uh actually we've only made one of them since we got married about four years ago one of the family reunions but we're both in school so it makes it kind of tough [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] they usually they been happening um just after the summer semester starts [speaker002:] you can't really get away [speaker001:] so usually not we managed to get to one that was before I started to school and she took that summer off but uh [speaker002:] well now that we've been talking about it I'm gonna I'm kind of getting home sick now because it's been over three years since I've been home [speaker001:] oh yeah oh goodness [speaker002:] to see my grandparents or well my my grandfather's the only one that's still around [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and see my grandmother was the one that used to plan the stuff basically [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so unless the aunts and uncles really get on the ball and put stuff together it's kind of like she was like the glue so [speaker001:] yeah I understand where is home for you [speaker002:] originally um I was born in Missouri [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so and you know we have relatives scattered out all over Louisiana Mississippi um here in Texas so it's harder for everyone to get in get home [speaker001:] yeah yeah well maybe this year you can find a more central location [speaker002:] now well but see the majority of them are in like just like how you said in close close quarters so it's easier for us few stragglers to go home [speaker001:] oh okay okay the majority of them are still in the Missouri area [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] okay yeah our family right now or most there's there's there's only like few stragglers uh if any with any distance yeah some of us there's one cousin uh in Colorado and uh some cousins over in Phoenix uh I got a sister over in in uh Washington state [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] uh rest of them are within you know a couple hours drive [speaker002:] well um how do y'all communicate like to plan it and everything do y'all just call each other up on the phone and say this is the weekend we're gonna do it or do y'all like mail out stuff [speaker001:] that's pretty much it yeah okay it's gonna be such and such a weekend and uh y'all come that's about it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I mean you know this is the standard pattern is the everybody brings their their favorite dish and somebody brings the volleyball net somebody brings a whole lot of ice for the watermelon and [speaker002:] well um I guess probably the last one I went to I met so many people that I hadn't seen in probably ten over ten years it was like don't you remember me and I'm like no [speaker001:] am I related to you yeah I married your cousin's brother's uncle uh something like that [speaker002:] yeah I know do you I mean is that since you I mean do you have them every year [speaker001:] uh yeah they're every year and and still you wind up meeting people you you you never knew you were related to let alone [speaker002:] well see it's probably not that yeah [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well I think that's probably why our's always so interesting is because we don't have them that often and then when we do [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and everyone does finally get together it's like after the you know the just like [speaker001:] down right amazing isn't it [speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] So how do you get most of your current event information? [speaker002:] Well,, see I'm going to school right now, and, uh, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] while I'm working, I don't get a, I don't get a chance to read the paper a lot, and I don't watch T V as much really either, because, uh, my free time is kind of, and I do, like to do other stuff with it. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] While I'm at work sometimes, I, on the computer network [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] um, I read the news sometimes, and that's kind of helpful. [speaker001:] I would imagine going to college, though, your professors and different things, you keep up on what's going on. [speaker002:] That's true, I mean, my roommates and stuff, you know [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] people around me talk about it. And the people I work with are pretty, you know, up, up-to-date on that kind of stuff, so. [speaker001:] Right. Well, I'm a housewife, I have three kids, and so [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] um, I get most of my information probably through just the news at six o'clock [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and then, um, talking with people and just hearing what's going on.. [speaker002:] Do you watch, do you watch the network, like major network news, or do you watch like [speaker001:] Just the regular channel [speaker002:] the MACNEIL LEHRER HOUR? [speaker001:] just channel eight. [speaker002:] Oh, really. [speaker001:] That's our channel here that's the, um, eyewitness news. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So. [speaker002:] Oh, ch-, see channel, where I am channel eight's, um, like public T V, so it's kind of different. [speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh. Yeah. [speaker002:] I think, I think the, uh, I think a lot of the commentators on, like the major networks, like right, it's kind of appropriate right now because of the election stuff going on, but, um, it seems that, um, they kind of get to throw their opinions into how they, you know, report on the news. [speaker001:] Right. And I think even in the elections, they choose who they're going to follow and who they're not, and basically [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you know, if a candidate can get them to follow, then the news will, you know, kind of publicize his name. [speaker002:] Yeah, exactly. [speaker001:] I don't think that the way I get the news is the right way to get it. I think you get a very lopsided picture of what's going on. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, because they can, they can only report on, I mean, they give each candidate perhaps, you know, ten second blurbs in which to, you know, to say, you, you just can't get a full picture of, you know [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] their message unless you have time to sit down and r-, and probably read something on it. [speaker001:] Right. And the news, too, it just doesn't, um, cover that many stories, I mean, it just covers your basic, you know, violent crimes [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, you know, and, and your ca-, catastrophes with weather and stuff, but other than that, you really don't know what's going on. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Um, I will read our current letters that come out on elections and, I guess I do read that, and I do study who's running in our area, and I do study what's going on in the economy. It, you know, and, I guess I do read other magazines, um, too, to get my information. [speaker002:] What kind of, see, I subscribe to like SCIENCE NEWS, and that's, that's real good because it gives like a brief summary of, or like the updates, like of what's going on in science without getting into a lot of detail that would, you know, bog me down that I wouldn't know about [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] but other than that I don't really read, I don't, I don't really subscribe to anything else. [speaker001:] I used to read every month a READER'S DIGEST [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, um, now I guess I just have friends that clip articles or if I, you know, am interested in something, of course, during the w-, when we were in war, I read up on that just a little in the newspaper [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] to find out what was going on. But a lot of the times, I, you know, I wish I had the time to read all the stories in the newspaper, but I just can't seem to find the time. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] If they put it out in a video, or on [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] not a video but a cassette tape or something, where you could just listen to it [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I would do that while I was doing other things. But, [speaker002:] Well, I remember back during the, uh, during the war, everyone here at work always had the radio or the T V on, because that, they were going constantly with that stuff. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, uh. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] Well, I, um, they even did a story on our news here in Texas on what people wanted to see more of, and people said that they wanted to see more on outside of Texas news. You know, we just don't want to hear every night all the killings that went on here in Dallas [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that we want to hear what's going on with the economy, what's being done to help it, what's going on in other countries, what's, you know, just more information. [speaker002:] If they reported every, if they reported every violent crime in Atlanta it would take, it would probably take the whole news hour [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh. [speaker001:] Well, I guess we'll get pretty good news coverage in a couple of years when you host the, uh, summer olympics [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, that's, they start, already they're having like, um, in the newspaper they have a section, I think, every now and then, on the Olympics, you know, and they've got like a countdown, it's like sixteen hundred days or something. [speaker001:] I know, we're trying to get tickets to it right now. [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That's going to be crazy that time of year here. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, uh. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I can't believe, I mean, they're, they're stretching out the Olympic news for that much coverage over, I guess people want to hear about it. Also big in the news right now is the Braves, because they're, uh, they're in, you know, tr-, spring training or whatever [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] and they did so well last year. [speaker001:] Yeah, they spent a lot of time, that's another thing, they spend a long time on sports, and I think that, um, that's fine, I would like to see more time spent on other things. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But. [speaker002:] It seems like, I don't know, they way they do the newscasts, I wish they, they kind of separated it, you know, if you wanted to watch one thing you could turn to some channel for it but I don't have cable.

[speaker001:] okay I don't know which end do we push but okay [speaker002:] okay well um let's see I I think uh there's a lot of people that don't vote because they don't really think their their uh opinion is going to be heard and you know there's such a small voice and such a huge number of people in the United States and that you know their votes votes not going to make that much difference and whether you vote for one person or the other person the issues is what you know what you believe in and that person is going to have a lot of uh since there's so many issues this one person can believe a lot of different ways on all of them so [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] it'd be really difficult to have that one person perfect person that believed exactly what you believed [speaker001:] yeah that's true you know a lot of people uh uh I think the that it ends up the people that uh vote every time uh elections come around are more the the polly uh the party type followers the guys that uh you know follow the party lines you know and they you know just go in and if they're Republican they vote Republican vote Republican every year you know and uh the people that are independent [speaker002:] hum yeah [speaker001:] you know are the ones that don't uh don't really uh show up every year because they can't seem to to decide which are the good aspects and which are the bad aspects of a candidate [speaker002:] right yeah that's good [speaker001:] yeah yeah I always thought it was back when Anderson was running I was hoping that things would change and he'd actually get elected and party politics would start going down the tubes but that didn't work [speaker002:] yeah yeah there's uh a lot of extremes on the parties too with the you know the real uh far side of the Democrats they're real liberal now to where probably fifty or a hundred years ago um the Democrat party being liberal like they are now you know would never be thought of it would be the other way that the Republicans were real liberal minded as far as like uh moral standings and those kinds of things [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's uh and and then people always get upset about it too because you know every year the the the politicians are the ones that are usually pushing for more people to vote they they each think that uh if more people vote they'll get more votes [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I'm always amazed at that that each candidate thinks it's going to be the people that come out that will vote for him you know [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's that's true I think in uh the Texas governor election I think more people turned out to vote against somebody than for somebody this time [speaker001:] yeah well that uh that's something I I know that there's certain issues that can really motivate people because we live in a predominately predominately predominately Catholic type area [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and when things start uh when when abortion comes on the issues then people just get all inspirational inspired you know and uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] still on the other hand we're also uh this particular community is a Catholic community but uh uh down in DC where where things are a little bit different uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know it's it's women's rights and the and and that sort of movement and so it's uh quite the opposite so elections start getting very uh the elections where they have that topic seem to be a little bit better attended than some of the other ones [speaker002:] yeah that's true and uh [speaker001:] but uh [speaker002:] yeah that's true that the different places in America that uh you know different issues would be a lot more important than say in another place [speaker001:] yeah I can understand why why some of the the rural areas the voter turnout isn't as much because it does seem sometimes like the lobbyists in DC are like controlling things for the the Midwest and uh it doesn't matter who they put in office they're going to fall subject to uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the pressure that lobbyists can put [speaker002:] right yeah and it's uh [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] real true that uh you you know they'll say one thing to get elected and then once they do get elected they don't have the power or the authority or the willingness to do those things that they promised you know beforehand [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know maybe it just wasn't possible at all in the first place you know like the no new taxes thing you know that's uh with the economy going the way it is and everything that was nearly ridiculous thing to [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] even try to do [speaker001:] yeah well I don't think he's going to have to worry about that next year I think he can probably raise taxes and still get elected [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] right after the war [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] that really uh [speaker001:] unfortunately that'll probably even drop lower the voters turn down even more uh turnout even more because more Democrats will think that they don't have a shot so they won't even bother turning out [speaker002:] uh that's true yeah [speaker001:] they'll just say oh well you know the Republicans have this election we'll see you in four years [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] uh but yeah I hope some of the local well that's what they they keep saying that it seems like people with it with old-fashioned values are the ones that aren't turning out at the at the booths they they say that these older voters that uh you know they they feel like the kids are running the the country so they they don't come out turn out to vote and they're the ones that uh you know really know what's going on have the experience and have seen you know how politicians can you know screw up or whatever [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I know my grandmother hasn't voted in years [speaker002:] right that's right you know neither has mine as a matter of fact and uh that's true they I think they look at it as well everybody the majority of the people think this way when that's not necessarily true because you know that's what the media says well the majority believes this way so uh they don't even bother turning out to vote to express their uh opinions [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so that's that's true [speaker001:] yeah wonder if they're going to take into account with this commutiv uh this computerized conversation that there's little children you know bouncing in your knee the whole time your talking [speaker002:] yeah do you hear the dogs in the background here okay they're [speaker001:] no I can't hear them [speaker002:] the children next door just opened the fence and they went off yeah but anyway that's I guess we've uh talked long enough and that was sort of interesting what part of the country are you from [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah uh Washington DC um-hum [speaker002:] are you really wow this is I'm in from this is Dallas where I'm at the outskirts of Dallas [speaker001:] oh okay well I figured with Texas Instruments they'd probably have a few uh Texans on the line now and then [speaker002:] yeah do do you work for TI in any way [speaker001:] no huh-uh [speaker002:] wow how did you how did they get you or [speaker001:] uh basically they they went through engineering companies and uh we're communications I work I work in a com munications company [speaker002:] oh oh okay right I work for TI so we saw it on the uh the TV News one day and I thought wow that might be interesting [speaker001:] yeah yeah we sort of different [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they called me at uh ten o'clock one night that was very strange [speaker002:] well yeah [speaker001:] I guess they were doing it Eastern Standard Time I was like well I don't know how long it takes whether it takes five minutes or twenty minutes so I [speaker002:] yeah Central Standard Time's what they're doing it by [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah I still haven't figured out what the zero through six days which day is which yet but I didn't study it that hard so maybe I'll figure it out [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but anyway it was nice to talk to you and uh sort of meet you and that was an interesting topic [speaker001:] okay yeah okay well if you're ever in uh DC can look up Wayne Sherman you'll say oh yeah talked to that guy okay [speaker002:] okay I'm I'm Kyle Hunt too if you ever come to to Dallas area well we live right by the airport [speaker001:] oh okay yeah yeah yeah so do we [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] yeah right next to Dulles all right well I'll talk to you later bye-bye [speaker002:] yeah okay bye

[speaker001:] kind of dream car do you want to buy [speaker002:] oh gee do I want to buy I don't know that I really want a whole lot more other other than what I got I just uh got a car about uh fourteen fifteen fifteen months ago now [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh I bought a Taurus um the thing I want always wanted a car with a big trunk so I can carry a lot of stuff that's one of the prime considerations I want something that's reasonably reliable and something that's not likely to get expensively damaged in a small crash and you can't get all three today you got got to give up one or the other [speaker001:] hm that's interesting yeah uh reliability and an economy you know if you drive a lot but [speaker002:] um-hum yeah the the fuel economy is not a big factor uh especially with the way that gasoline prices now are below what they were in nineteen eighty of course they were pretty outrageous then but but [speaker001:] in real dollars yeah [speaker002:] yeah in in real dollars it's just not not much of a factor um you know the uh what your ma call its it does it's it's less than insurance I think for example [speaker001:] yeah that's true but I think that's really artificial you know that's unfortunate it's unfortunate it's it should probably uh taxed or something to [speaker002:] well I don't that's that would be that would be reasonable I think I'm I'm wondering about the economic justification for taxing gasoline some more you say well it's a a nonrenewable resource uh [speaker001:] limit that [speaker002:] but I don't know there's lots of nonrenewable nonrenewable resources that one could tax just because they're nonrenewable including everything you mine out of the ground um I don't know if if there really is that justification but uh it certainly is is more more palatable to have them tax gasoline and use it to build roads than it is to have them take take tolls which means you got to stop and means that [speaker001:] huh but uh getting back to the topic I guess I guess kind of pushed I guess I kind of pushed us off to the side supposed to be talking about cars not [speaker002:] excuse me yeah but there's nobody that checks you see we could actually talk about anything but um if you I mean bring us bring us back to the topic if you'd like [speaker001:] yeah well um I don't know uh you know I guess the uh I was like interested in like the uh the new Honda VX [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] has the uh lean burn and all that stuff supposed to be very fuel efficient so it gives you about the same kind of horsepower [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh boosts your uh mileage by like uh almost ten twenty miles per gallon [speaker002:] hm so what would you get uh you know what what are the what are the EPA fuel economy numbers [speaker001:] almost in the fifties [speaker002:] hm yeah that's that's pretty good now I don't know how big the car is I mean does it have a big trunk that's sort of the bottom line [speaker001:] well you can you know like a well Civic is is like a Corolla or something it it's [speaker002:] yeah that's no good [speaker001:] it's it's not as well hey it's in some ways it's not quite as big as a Taurus but then it's not too much smaller either um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] someday and and you know if you have kids then you're gonna want to have passengers room for passengers and and uh [speaker001:] no dreams for a sports car of any kind [speaker002:] no I just I'm I just um um well you you can't drive it any faster than the other cars anyway it's not allowed you know but [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and and most sports cars don't have room for anything in them that's not my kind of vehicle [speaker001:] so you'd rather have a one of those big vans [speaker002:] well I maybe I don't know about a van the thing I I hate when I hate it when I'm behind vans but being in one would be the opposite effect you could see over everything that would be helpful [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um so many times you get behind somebody and you wonder what's up ahead and if that person stops then you might have a hard time stopping so you or you or you just can't see around it like somebody could come in from an intersection you couldn't see it because the van blocks your field of view but uh [speaker001:] what do you have a station wagon or a regular [speaker002:] no I got a regular car but you know four four door sedan [speaker001:] uh-huh do you have those uh split seats that fold down [speaker002:] yep um-hum [speaker001:] from the uh the trunk that's a good innovation [speaker002:] oh no no not the one for the trunk I didn't get that one that would have been good but uh [speaker001:] then you could put a lot more in [speaker002:] I could oh yeah you could do that right uh I thought I thought it was that but it just doesn't work I mean there just is it would it would be it would be it would be nice if I could do that I agree [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] is that well well let's let's put it this way the user manual doesn't say anything about it now I don't know it's maybe it's an undocumented [speaker001:] that's interesting are you one to read manuals before using something [speaker002:] this one is so much longer than any other one that I that I that I ever saw that that I didn't even think about writing it now reading now when I was a little kid and my parents got new cars then I would always read the manual [speaker001:] oh yeah I guess so hey it's a it's a substitute for something wanting to drive [speaker002:] but yeah yeah once I learned to drive [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] that story was different yeah [speaker001:] oh I don't know I I I I don't know I like um I I like those

[speaker001:] okay I think the crime in Dallas is horrendous [speaker002:] compared compared to what [speaker001:] compared now to when I first came here twenty years ago when I came here twenty years ago it was not near as bad as it is now it's terrible now my house has already been broken into once and there was an attempt a second another time I mean I can't it's horrible I'm afraid [speaker002:] do you live in do you live near downtown [speaker001:] no I live well I live in Oak Cliff but uh uh we never had any problem here before we we really did not in my neighborhood we're not wealthy at all know you know we don't have a rich neighborhood and when they break into our houses they don't get anything much they get a little jewelry and maybe you know a VCR's and it just irritates me to no end that somebody has broken into my house and stolen my things you know just [speaker002:] well hum well I live I I live in in north west Garland actually west about a mile south of one ninety so we're really quite far north and the house we just moved into a house that has lots of windows and I course I have a friend Dallas policeman that lives right behind me so I don't know if that'll do any good but uh it it's interesting though that you've been broken into uh you must you must look at this whole mess a lot different did you see today that they the the police commanders got a pay raise and the the regular folks didn't [speaker001:] no I hadn't I hadn't heard that [speaker002:] it just on the news I was just watching a little of it just before you called it uh and they cutback and they cutback on overtime and they have to take electric clocks home and you wonder what that does to the fighting crime if if they had an electric clock on their desk they were supposed to take it home to save energy [speaker001:] are you serious that is the city [speaker002:] I'm serious uh Doug Clark's on channel eight [speaker001:] that sounds like the city I worked for the city of Dallas for a while and I do know that they're they can be really strange [speaker002:] what what what do you think why why people breaking into your house [speaker001:] drugs they want to see they take what they do they break in and they take your jewelry and they take it and they sell it they hock it and then they buy drugs I really think it's drugs they want the money for the drugs [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] so I think drugs is the root of it [speaker002:] what time of day are they breaking in [speaker001:] well okay I used to work second shift and when they broke in I was working at night I I work in payroll now and I work days but uh they broke in they knew my hours the police told me evidently they were watching me and they know your hours see that's what so spooky about it [speaker002:] uh yeah [speaker001:] and they broke in at night and uh since then I've put in a security light and I've marked everything I you know that I have I put my driver's license number on it ugly too I mean where it could be seen because I don't care don't I just don't want them to get it and hock it again [speaker002:] well are you uh you said you're not in a in a rich neighborhood but are there are there obviously um drug people in the area [speaker001:] no not right here I I have never even seen like uh what they call a crack house or anything I wouldn't no there's nothing like that here that I know of now I'm sure there are somewhere in Oak Cliff but I've never seen it we're not in a bad area you know I [speaker002:] do you think they just kind of hit your house at random or but they were going down the street [speaker001:] they've hit they've hit my next door neighbor they hit uh the guy about two or three houses down so they've hit several houses in the neighborhood one of them twice [speaker002:] so they okay so they're really just looking for [speaker001:] they're just looking [speaker002:] a nice enough house to find something to steal [speaker001:] just something they kicked my door in they literally I had a solid wooden door with a dead bolt on it and they backed up and put their foot to it and kicked it in molding and all [speaker002:] oh that's scary because everybody feels you're supposed to have dead bolts [speaker001:] that's real scary I have a and I my insurance paid to have the contractor come out and I we put in a another solid door and another dead bolt but it doesn't hold it [speaker002:] well my the front door on the house I have has uh glass in it [speaker001:] so does mine now this one does have glass in it [speaker002:] well I I wonder you know you know it I don't know this is tough but I guess the issue is is if it's drug people what's the solution [speaker001:] uh I don't think there is a solution I I really I really don't know I really don't and you know the police told me to get a gun and if they if you're here and they try breaking in shoot them now I have never heard policemen telling people to get a gun and shoot people before [speaker002:] well that [speaker001:] but that tells you how bad the situation is that tells you how bad it is and there aren't enough police and they they didn't get here till six the next morning I got home at eleven called the police immediately [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] several times my neighbors came over immediately we didn't even know if they were still in the house my neighbor went through looking [speaker002:] yeah um-hum yeah [speaker001:] they advised on the phone that we'll have somebody go through and look now that's terrible and the police did not get here until seven hours later [speaker002:] yeah well that that's real scary [speaker001:] that's darn scary [speaker002:] but is the is the solution uh cutting off drug supply [speaker001:] if it's possible I guess I well or is it is it or is the solution legalizing [speaker002:] or or is it yeah or yeah uh do you see that these people you know are they going to if if you cut supply it's going to raise the price [speaker001:] somethings [speaker002:] or if you uh [speaker001:] if you legalize it it uh well you couldn't legalize everything okay I just don't see that you could but if you legalized marijuana and then uh taxed it and everything then everybody'd come out okay I think on that deal [speaker002:] well how how expensive is um how expensive is marijuana it's not very expensive is it [speaker001:] I don't even know I really don't know [speaker002:] but I mean the people that are I'd be curious to if the people that are wouldn't you think the people that are breaking in are probably [speaker001:] hard drug users [speaker002:] are probably crack that have got a pretty high because I would think a hundred dollars worth of marijuana I don't know what it costs but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I should think that'd be more than a lot more than just ordinary recreation it would be interesting to see if to the problem is is is what do you lock them up for you know [speaker001:] and then the thing is keeping them locked up [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know they pick them up they lock them up and then they they let them go [speaker002:] but they don't have enough proof them [speaker001:] they don't have anything to keep and you never get your stuff back you never get your stuff back [speaker002:] and then we got to raise well we had interesting enough we had a in in Garland before we moved we had some neighborhood kids came by and stole uh uh drill and our saw and and I had them marked and uh we called the police about a week la ter the guy caught these kids riding a motor um a motor scooter or a a go it was a go-cart in the in the alley and he got to talking to the kids and and we recovered the drill and the saw it was but uh it it's one of those you know it was uh not a not a real expensive neighborhood uh but it's it's interesting that the the motivation and the question is what's the motivation not to steal and I I guess that's what bothers it's like the criminal you know if somebody says well let's lock him up for life well how should he you know what bothers me is the incentive that he's if you if you know you're going to be in there for life why should you just be good but if you if you say I'm not going to let you out till you have a skill and we think you're reformed well that's not how they do it they let them out when they time is served I [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] I I guess the problem is is is what it would take to do that would be more money than we it's like the school issue and which I guess we're not supposed to talk to but anyway the idea of how much money would it take to reform these criminals and lock them all up [speaker001:] and they think these are kids kids are probably teenagers older teenagers that have been doing this around here [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] they uh they weren't real professional well we don't know for sure but they hit they took they knew right where to go that's what scares me [speaker002:] in your [speaker001:] they went they went right to my jewelry they did not ransack my house they went right to my jewelry box and I had a ring that had my diamonds in it and my grandmother's diamonds in it that I had made and it was worth close to two thousand dollars [speaker002:] oh my [speaker001:] they got and they I mean they had pay dirt when they saw that I mean and I couldn't I worked in the shop then at TI you you know with machinery and I couldn't wear my jewelry I can wear it now I wear everything [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I don't leave anything home I wear everything you bet but uh [speaker002:] everything of value [speaker001:] they got that and the diamond necklace and stuff so they really hit pay dirt and then they grabbed my VCR also but they didn't just tear it out they very carefully unhooked everything laid everything out you know I mean it was just unbelievable [speaker002:] well did they did you take your TV [speaker001:] no they left two TV's and one was small they could have easily carried it but the police said they must have been on foot it looked like they were on foot they left my silver my silver was sitting here in a chest [speaker002:] yeah but who buys silver anymore [speaker001:] well I did [speaker002:] well yeah but have you bought a place setting lately I have a niece that's getting married and uh she's not even um selecting a silver pattern because it's I've forgotten my wife was telling me what the cost is just incredible to you know a place setting is is [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] I don't know two or three hundred dollars or something I mean your silver probably is worth a lot but uh what are they going to do walk down the street and tell everybody what would you like to buy uh a [speaker001:] well they could they could no well they can hock it see they take everything to the pawn shops and just hock everything but um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know they just hit the jewelry well I guess if they knew their jewelry they knew their but they did take some cubic zirconiums too I had a ring that they looked awfully real [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I did have a ring that that wasn't real and they took that you know and I said [speaker002:] well how would they know I mean they they'd have to be pretty sophisticated [speaker001:] they just grabbed they just grabbed but boy they sure hit pay dirt with that one ring luckily my insurance you know reimbursed me but I can't replace those diamonds [speaker002:] no and and and yeah how to put a value on a ring that you'd made [speaker001:] you know to have and that had my grandmother's stones in it you know so oh I was sick [speaker002:] yeah that is scary [speaker001:] but I still haven't bought a gun [speaker002:] well see that's the thing scares me about it is um who gets shot with the guns they say that a large number of the homicides are people that know each other that uh I've forgot what the percentage forty or fifty percent it's surprisingly high that people that shoot each other know them I mean it's not like you know a

[speaker001:] okay Howard what do you think of our space budget and should we go ahead and and keep exploring or should we call a halt to it is it doing any good [speaker002:] I think that the space program has done a lot of good for the country now I think what we made a major wrong turn we went into the uh to the current generation of space craft the reusable ones like they are now [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] because they have not proven as reliable as they should have and I think some of the earlier approaches were much more um much better in many ways however um you know we've gained an awful lot from the space program all the way from remote monitoring to Teflon to uh some new space age materials plastics and all that so I think it's been a good investment uh somebody was telling me the return was about twenty five or thirty dollars for every dollar spent [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] which is amazing for any governmental financed program I wish the post office just stop raising our rates um [speaker001:] oh yes wish our post office could do that that's right I wish they'd just deliver stuff [speaker002:] I think though that now that we're finally starting to get over the fears and the uh oh I don't know the guilt that we had out of uh Challenger I think maybe we can pick up and go on now but [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I I don't know I don't think we're really have all of our act together yet as far as clear objectives [speaker001:] I agree [speaker002:] the space station is where we should go [speaker001:] I agree seems like that we've kind of gotten side tracked with [speaker002:] at this point [speaker001:] putting all these different things up there to monitor and you know and I'm in favor of you know getting closer to seeing certain things but I'd like to see them also go you know go back up there see you know what they can do see about setting a a space station up I'm all in favor of the space program and I don't think we should stop and I don't think we should cut the money [speaker002:] well where do you think we ought to go with it [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] you talking about uh uh a a fully manned space station that we'll keep up there [speaker001:] yeah I would like I'd like to see that I'd like for us to really find out more about the actual universe and get up there and and see what's going on even if you know there's no life up there or anything you know but who knows and I would like to see them do something like that [speaker002:] well you [speaker001:] I I hate to see them just you know keep getting diverted off to spying on other nations and putting up defense things and I think they I think they lose sight of of part of what they're supposed to be doing [speaker002:] well I think about half the missions now are are military related are they not [speaker001:] yes yes [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] I believe they are [speaker002:] it seems like it's that high a percentage [speaker001:] you know let's go back to our original thing with you know the right experiments and our uh you know our actual exploring of space and and all that and you know with with Russia uh seemingly not going to be as as big a threat [speaker002:] well they can't afford to [speaker001:] huh-uh you know and have you gone out to uh Fort Worth to see the space Soviet space exhibit [speaker002:] no we were talking about that this weekend we it's only going to be there a couple more weeks we need to go [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum we went uh we took our grandsons and went uh the weekend before last and it is marvelous I mean it's really neat how they they have done it they have done a beautiful job [speaker002:] have they [speaker001:] and they have a uh scaled down model showing how they you know fuel it or you know how they uh oh the fuel trucks and things run out there to it and how they uh all those things that are against the actual space mission uh space ship you know how they fall away from it and the loading and then and then it's actually you know the smoke comes out like it's taking off it is really interesting [speaker002:] oh yes well maybe I need to run out there this weekend [speaker001:] you really do it it's well worth the time and effort we went uh early on Sunday we got out there about uh ten ten thirty and beat [speaker002:] now do you have to have tickets ahead excuse me [speaker001:] no we bought tickets there and if you have children if you go to McDonald's you could they have coupons or did have now they may be through with them now that uh buy one adult and one child gets in free [speaker002:] um I think both of both of my kids are too old for that [speaker001:] oh okay oh okay you have teenagers or something yes well I had grandchildren so three of them so between their mother and their grandfather and I because their dad was at work and uh [speaker002:] they're both uh yes yes but you [speaker001:] but and the boys loved it you know they really did like it [speaker002:] it's it's very impressive I'm sure [speaker001:] uh-huh it is and I felt the uh six year old would you know that he'd be kind of bored but he wasn't even the three year old enjoyed it because they had one of those had one of those moon vehicles [speaker002:] what um-hum [speaker001:] and had it set up like it was on the moon and and showed it moving around and stuff so it was really neat [speaker002:] well see now that's something else the uh Russians have had space stations manned stations space stations for years now you you know they had the MIRV [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and see we've yet to keep anyone up over over a week or ten days [speaker001:] right well in going through it I got the impression that actually they were farther ahead

[speaker001:] anyway uh [speaker002:] how about you what do you do with your budget [speaker001:] what do I do um at the moment it's utter chaos um right now I'm just uh I I don't really have a budget per se I'm I uh it's called living within your means [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know which means at the moment um paying off the Visa bill and keeping everything else under control and hoping the car doesn't collapse [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] um but uh no I don't really have a budget at the moment um but I have uh I have uh rough feel for how much money I can afford to spend each month and then I don't usually don't exceed that unless I unless the Visa bill gets out of hand for one reason or another like if I have car expenses and then that that then it goes through the moon so [speaker002:] yeah that sort of a problem [speaker001:] yeah so um what'd you [speaker002:] we're trying we're trying to um so far we are in the clear credit wise but uh the other side of it is so not much on that side of it to add to it we're trying to think of how to put away some savings and stuff like that but [speaker001:] so you can afford to get a house [speaker002:] yeah we'd like to do that some day we have this dream [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] but we don't know how long it will be a dream we we're kind of real we're really happy that we don't have any debt but we're at the same time we're real scared about incurring it in this um economy right now so we're stepping real careful and trying to see what's the best way to save what the little bit that we do get you know on top of expenses every month [speaker001:] yeah so what do you and your husband do [speaker002:] we're missionaries actually yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] are you really [speaker002:] and um it will be easier once we get overseas cause we have uh like uh uh support quota [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and it's cheaper to live overseas than it is to live here [speaker001:] no kidding [speaker002:] and it doesn't get switched very easily once you come home [speaker001:] I see so overseas where would you be going [speaker002:] so Africa Nigeria [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] really how long would you be there [speaker002:] about four years we're career so we we go over seas for four years and then we come back for a year we go over four we come back for a year [speaker001:] with with what church [speaker002:] um we're with Wycliffe Bible Translators [speaker001:] oh yes yes I uh know who they are they um they have an office uh in in Costa Mesa as I recall [speaker002:] so yeah they could very well and [speaker001:] there there was uh you know there was a fairly large building that that was so um are you uh are you uh active in translation [speaker002:] um we will be I was over over for four years doing language surveying which is the first step you're kind of like the scout that goes ahead of the team and assesses the need and uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] came home and got married and we will go back back as translators cause we want to raise a family and it is easier to raise a family as translators well I always wanted to do translation but as long as I was single and footloose so to speak it's easier you know they really need surveyors cause you could you're free to travel anywhere you don't have kids hanging around you and stuff [speaker001:] true enough so um what uh what languages do you speak besides English of course [speaker002:] well I have a smattering of about ten different ones but there's I'm not bilingual in any of them because I kept switching from one area to the other you know since I did [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know complete a survey in one area I'd switch to the other so I know the greetings in about ten and how to do market stuff but in about um about five I guess I can do better in it and my French is pretty good but it's uh Senegalese French so uh I'm terrified to speak it in um [speaker001:] in France [speaker002:] in France yeah because they're real snobby about their language and Senegalese French is street French and I just picked it up off the street and I knew what I was I knew what I was communicating but I didn't know what I was saying I never sat there and got a direct translation and said something here when I came home and French to somebody and he paled and said I'm not going to tell you what you said so since then I have refrained from speaking any French except in Senegal [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] I don't know what I said to him but uh I didn't ask him either [speaker001:] must have been terrible the um was it Henry Macon said that the the uh language is like a is like a man slowly bleeding to death slowly hemorrhaging to death without new infusions that will eventually die and I it it just amazes me that the French don't recognize that free style English is just takes on new

[speaker001:] [Child]. [speaker002:] Well, I'll tell you why I feel so, I feel strongly about this topic. I don't know a whole lot about the immigration laws. But I do know that in the, where I live and I teach school, there are so many Orientals that have come here and there's a lot of Mexican people too. Which is not, neither here nor there, but the fact is that all the Orientals that are here are very affluent, uh, very wise in money matters and have ta-, have taken over a lot of businesses, [LAUGHTER] and have, [child talking] Really, ki-, it's kind of scary because they're so bright. They're, all the kids that I have that are Oriental are really far above the American kids. And they, and the, the parents are unbelievable because they are just on the way up. And money is their main goal. And it's k-, it really is kind of scary [LAUGHTER] because there's, there's just oodles of them. And you can not believe the businesses and corporations that have been taken over by Orientals. And it's k-, it's kind of scares me, not that I don't want them here and not that I don't appreciate the fact that, you know, that they have rights too. But [sigh] on the other hand, you feel like almost they're, they're invading us to the point where they're going to take over [Child]. [speaker001:] Right. Actually my son once said that, that, perhaps, uh, what we should do is, is buy a little square of land some place in the Midwest. And, and that might be the solution [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I think probably that's, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] a good idea. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Because I lived in Iowa for, for about [child talking] ten years before I came here. And I was born in Ohio, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so it, it really and there is, there are a lot of Mexican people here because we're so close to the border. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, and they are wonderful people and, and I'm not, [child] you know, I don't want to deny them their rights. Just that you, you feel like when you were born and raised here and you worked re-, very hard to make this country what it is, uh, it scares you when you feel like somebody's taking over. And a lot of these people plan one day to go back, you know, to, to Vietnam or to, you know, Taiwan or wherever they're from. And take with them a lot of American dollars plus a lot of power in American com-, com-, companies. And it's kind of scary [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, you know, I don't know, I don't know the immigration laws that, uh, that well and I do not, and in fact I don't know them at all. I don't know how many people they allow in the United States per year or if there's even a, I don't even know if there is a number that they allow in anymore. Do you know anything about that? [speaker001:] No, I don't, I don't know. I lived in the Middle East for sometime and I, I [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] do believe there must have been some sort of quota system because, uh, [lipsmack] I know a lot of people that were, in a sense, not, qualified is the wrong word, but certainly were deserving to come. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it seemed to take them a long time or, or there was a lot of uncertainty as to whether they would be able to come [lipsmack]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] And so I would guess that, you know, there are quotas for different places. [speaker002:] I would think so too. It, [speaker001:] You know, I, I, I think there's something about being able to, to claim, um, imminent danger or, I'm not sure what the terminology is. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] Maybe political a-, [speaker002:] Asylum, of some sort. [speaker001:] Yeah. There, there you go. You got the term. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And maybe that's a, an issue with a, a lot of people. I don't know. But, [speaker002:] Well, [speaker001:] Yeah, I, I guess I haven't been in a situation where it's, it's been threatening to, to me. Uh, [speaker002:] Well, I teach in the suburb of Dallas and, and, uh, my kids go to school in another suburb of Dallas. And, with very, very good school systems. And they're considered, you know one of the top three in the state. Both of them, you know. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it seems like a lot of the Orientals make sure that their kids go to these schools. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And they're head and shoulders above a lot of the kids here. And the kids in this area are very bright. And come from, you know, parents that are professionals or semiprofessionals and, and, uh, very interested in their education. But, uh, I think in the, last year, I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, in four of the six high schools, the graduating class valedictorian and salutatorian were, uh, alm-, half or more Oriental. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, you know, they're just extremely bright kids. And also they value learning. [speaker001:] I was going to say, I'm not s-, I, I would guess that it's not that they are any brighter, but they just maybe work harder or, [speaker002:] Well, I, I think things come easy for them too. But I do think that they have that work ethic that we somehow have missed the boat in with a lot of kids in the United States. I don't, they, uh, don't want to work for anything. They want it to come to them but and be there but they don't want to work hard. And these kids work really hard. [speaker001:] Right, right. May-, [speaker002:] And, and they have, [speaker001:] but maybe part of that's the problem that here we've, we've let this value slip. [speaker002:] Yeah. I know, I agree with that. [speaker001:] And they need to have some competition. [speaker002:] But what I see is y-, the competition is there, but instead of meeting the challenge, they're starting to resent them. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it's causing, you know, I think some, some problems. [speaker001:] Well, that's too bad. [speaker002:] It really is. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Because we see a lot of racial problems in Dal-, the Dallas area anyway, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] especially in Dallas. And it's mainly Black and, and, and Hispanic. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, there is some, there has been some resentment with Orientals in the Black community because they've started businesses there, and the Blacks resent them coming in and taking their money, and there's been some violence because of it. [speaker001:] Oh, that's really sad. [speaker002:] It is. It's, it is very sad. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, you know, I really, I, I've, I've always prided myself [LAUGHTER] on not being prejudiced and being, you know, uh, welcome, welcoming everyone [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that wants to come here. And even when I was younger wh-, when I was in college, I was a member of the N A A C P because I lived up north, and I was very into that, the human rights part of everything. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But I, I've, I've become very cynical [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in the last three, four years living in Texas. [speaker001:] Well, and it sounds like you feel that there is need for change. Maybe the, [lipsmack] [pause] uh, you know, the e-, there is too big of a concentration coming all at once to, to allow for adequate melting into the society. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well, and exactly, that's exactly true. Plus the fact that these people do come for a short period of time. Two, two, three, four maybe five years and then go back. And pick our brains, which is wonderful, and take all that back with them. And, and, uh, plus a lot of American dollars. But in, in the long run maybe that's going to make a better world too. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] You know, you just don't know. [speaker001:] Exactly. [speaker002:] An-, and yet, you know, with, uh, with, uh, [pause] there's somebody on my other line but I'm going to ignore [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] that. Uh, anyway I just, you, you kind of, you don-, you really don't know what to do. And, and I don't, I want my kids to have values where they're accepting and so forth. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And both of my children are really tol-, more tolerant of Blacks and H-, Hispanics than they are of the Orientals, [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] for some reason. They feel, you know, like they've taken over. They feel like, uh, you know, they're taking some of the, the rewards that they should have. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And I really don't want that to happen. [speaker001:] Right, [speaker002:] But, [speaker001:] right. [speaker002:] but it's happening. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And I think a lot of their friends feel the same way too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, and I really do wish I knew about quotas and really wish I [talking] [voice in background says, Hi. Speaker responds, Hi.] [Speaker resumes talking] I really do wish I, I knew more about immigration laws because I have no idea any more. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Because they've changed a great deal. [speaker001:] I would, I would suspect that they have. Well, I guess, um, I don't have much, [LAUGHTER] much more to contribute to the topic. [speaker002:] Yeah. I don't really either. I wish I knew more. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Probably if I did, [child] I might be a little bit more, uh, tolerant, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] perhaps. And I, and even if I, I really wish I knew the situations they were going back to or coming from. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You don't know any of that and you feel, you know, you can't put yourself in their shoes or really understand them. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Unless, and for some reason Orientals are very, uh, my good friend calls them pushy, but I call them very, that they know what they want and they go get it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And in stores and so [speaker001:] Goal directed. [speaker002:] and so forth it's, wh-, pardon me? [speaker001:] Goal directed. [speaker002:] Yeah. But in stores and things, sometimes they can be very impolite because they can, they get in front of you [speaker001:] Oh. I see. [speaker002:] or they, uh, they take something that you had in mind to get before you did. You know, just going for it, they take it quickly. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, they don't think anything of that. And I don't, you know, that's makes people resentful too. And so, [speaker001:] Sure, sure. [speaker002:] And yet they have, they have a right to be here and I know that. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But it's, it sometimes it's gets touchy. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, and I'm sure it's a lot different, you're from Maryland, [speaker001:] Yes, [speaker002:] You said? What part of Maryland are you from? [speaker001:] Up in the Gaithersburg area. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. My sister used to live there, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in that area. And I, I'm sure that it's a lot different there. Uh, it's a lot different in I-, than, in Iowa than it is here. [speaker001:] Well, no. I think, I think there, as I recall in my son's class, there were, were an awfu-, an awful lot of mi-, minorities. [speaker002:] Is that right? [speaker001:] And, uh, of all, of all varieties. And [pause] with the same, you know, some of the, some of the same problems that you've mentioned. But, uh, I don't know, I guess I wasn't involved enough to, to, uh, really stop to think about it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, I, you know, since I teach, I see th-, see it. And, and I feel and I love the example that most of these children give the, our American children. And yet, you know, I can see why some of the parents are fear-, that are fearful too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, and it's a kind of a touchy situation. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I wish that we could all just learn from each other and not feel threatened. But [speaker001:] Exactly, exactly. [speaker002:] it doesn't happen that way [speaker001:] Right, [speaker002:] all the time. [speaker001:] right. [speaker002:] So anyway, [speaker001:] Well, it was good talking to you. [speaker002:] It was good to talk to, to you too. [speaker001:] And I h-, [speaker002:] And have a good trip in California. [speaker001:] Okay. And have a good weekend. [speaker002:] All right. Well thank you. [speaker001:] A- all righty, [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye [NOISE]. [speaker002:] [NOISE].

[speaker001:] hello hi [speaker002:] hello hi I'm Sally [speaker001:] I'm Jerry Crow [speaker002:] nice to meet you [speaker001:] and I uh made a mistake I went ahead and punched one so we're on [speaker002:] oh okay all righty [speaker001:] okay the trial by jury [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] uh my thinking on the uh uh unanimous decision I think they should only I think they ought to change that to only in death penalties that it be a unanimous unanimous I think in the others they ought to have [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] not a majority but say three fourths or something like that [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] because too many times they get hung up [speaker002:] yes and then there's a mistrial right [speaker001:] and there's a mistrial [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I agree with that I really do I you know there're two kind sides to everything and and I you know I was I've never been on a jury I've been interviewed a couple of times but never got picked and um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I just really have mixed feelings about it because you know I I'm not sure that I'm for the death penalty and yet when I think if something happened to one of the members of my family if somebody you know killed them or brutally beat them or whatever I uh and killed them I I don't know that I would could be able to say that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so you know it's I have mixed feelings so if if I were to ever serve on a jury I would have to be honest about that I'm not sure that I could give somebody the death penalty [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and and so I'm not you know I agree with you I think that uh that um a majority for uh you know a less severe case would be okay but I think for a death penalty it would be have to be everybody [speaker001:] yeah and uh I'm not so sure that well a it would cost a lot more but I'm not so sure that life in life without parole is not the stiffer penalty penalty than the death penalty [speaker002:] I agree uh-huh [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] I've always said that I you know I I think that would be the stiffer penalty but we have such a problem with over crowding right now that [speaker001:] yeah yeah plus it uh it would cost the taxpayers quite a bit more money [speaker002:] exactly exactly and and yet on the other hand you I feel so badly when I see people [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] when I read about people in the paper that have gotten out when they've raped somebody or beat somebody or aggravated assault or whatever and they're out in you know a few weeks or a month or [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think that's criminal because most most chances are they'll do it again but they have to let them out in order to make room for other people [speaker001:] make room for others [speaker002:] and if you they also mentioned about a judge you know doing the verdict well [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] I had an experience with that because my I have a brother-in-law that was um did made a mistake and he uh was working as a financial planner planner and they the the company he was working for did a few things that was against the law and the Internal Revenue found you know found out and prosecuted them and he ended up going to jail and he's a wonderful man and the bottom line was that he was greedy he money and all that stuff but when when he went to jail I saw the the side that I had never seen before because we would go and visit him and the judge was the one that was not lenient with him he really throw threw the book at him even though he was he had so many character witnesses and so many people that that came forth for him and he was tough and so sometimes probably the judge might be a little bit more severe severe than the jury would [speaker001:] yeah yeah I that's the problem I have with judge giving sentence [speaker002:] because don't [speaker001:] is that there's not consistency [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] uh it varies even from state to state and even within state [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] because I remember I was watching uh I think it was either Hard Copy or Current Affairs one of those programs last night [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and this poor uh immigrant had bought some land and had cleared the land there was uh uh uh fill there people had use thrown old tires and junk and everything else in the land [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and they prosecuted this guy and fined him like two hundred and fifty thousand dollars or something like that for disturbing water lands [speaker002:] oh oh my word [speaker001:] and he cleaned it up it was even cleaner than when he bought it [speaker002:] isn't that awful [speaker001:] and it's just you know ridiculous and uh [speaker002:] yeah and you know I also feel like if a judge has has the last say I I don't care what job you're in you know what social service type job I'm a teacher after a while unless you really watch it you begin become hardened to people's problems and they don't quite mean as much to you you detached yourself from them and I think that might happen with judges too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think that they they wouldn't be too lenient with certain people because they're they're so hardened to the fact that you know there's a reason why all this happened and they don't want to hear the story anymore they just want them to you know go to jail or be punished [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] so I agree with you I'm not too sure I would like to have a judge be the sole you know delegate of uh of a a sentence [speaker001:] right I just uh like you say I just I just hear too many cases of of somebody committing a small or a a minor crime and getting a much stiffer penalty penalty than someone else that commits a major crime and gets off lightly [speaker002:] yeah and especially and I hate to say this but especially if he's a minority or she's a minority [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] uh people have a tendency to automatically sentence people that are Black or or Mexican or any kind of an immigrant before they've even heard [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and that's sad that oh sad commentary on our times but it happens [speaker001:] and uh also they didn't say anything to talk about it but uh the rich people can hire the the uh top notch lawyers [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and the poor folk is more or less at the court's mercy [speaker002:] exactly and and the rich people get off the hook [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] it's really is sad but have you ever served on a trial on a jury [speaker001:] but I guess I madam ma'am [speaker002:] have you ever served on a jury [speaker001:] I've got uh I got a summons before but I never got selected I was like you I spent all day down at the courthouse sitting there [speaker002:] yeah but didn't get selected [speaker001:] and didn't get selected [speaker002:] um-hum well I always thought that it would be real interesting but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] one the one one of the ones that I was came down for was had to do with um drunken driving and um you know I don't think I could be partial in a case like that I just I just uh feel like that that you just shouldn't drink and drive and and I [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I could not be lenient at all and they asked me a couple of questions and I think you know they came to the conclusion I couldn't you know I would I'd probably throw the book at a person that that harmed somebody drinking and driving so [speaker001:] yeah yeah the only one I I got uh not selected but as a as a uh perspective jury member was uh a uh rear end collision [speaker002:] row uh-huh [speaker001:] and of course I guess there was probably thirty people or forty people there and they called them down [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and they asked if anybody had been ever rear ended to hold their hand up and I had and uh I think they [speaker002:] right away they [speaker001:] right away they said well this guy won't give a uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] won't will be partial [speaker002:] yeah I'm sure that's true I'm sure that's true well and it's the law is is very tricky and and we all come from different backgrounds and we come from different experiences and so we bring to that jury different perspectives which in a way is good because if we all thought the same way a person that was uh possibly innocent or possibly not as guilty as you know as as uh you might think would you know get the book thrown at them or whatever because we're all we all feel the same way but I know that I have some friends that have been on juries that have been deadlocked and it's no fun I mean because [speaker001:] yeah yeah I wouldn't want to be sequestered sequestered for a week and be locked up in a hotel or a motel or hotel or whatever [speaker002:] no that's right and especially hard on the people that are not along going along with the majority because the the other jurors get so angry because they want to go on with their life they want to get out of there [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and if you don't truly believe what you think and stick to your guns it can be awful uncomfortable [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] and uh I guess uh I'm fortunately in working for Texas Instruments should you get hung on a jury you do get get your normal pay yeah [speaker002:] oh is that right oh that's good [speaker001:] so uh [speaker002:] yes same with I'm a teacher and and we do too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so which is great is great [speaker001:] it would be hard on a person that uh if he did not get that pay to get locked up for two or three weeks on a hung jury and be out the time on the jury plus missing his pay check [speaker002:] oh wouldn't that be awful yeah that would be terrible [speaker001:] yeah but I guess I guess it's like like a lot of other things in in states uh it's not perfect but it's better than anything else is [speaker002:] exactly yeah [speaker001:] that's out there [speaker002:] you're right you're right and we just kind of have to to go along with it and do the best job we can if we're called it is a duty a lot of people I know try to get out of jury duty when they're you know and I would never do that because I feel like hey we live in a country [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] where we have this you know privilege and I would never that's my duty to be as a citizen of the United States and if I got called I'd do it but some people don't feel that way [speaker001:] right yeah yeah all you got to do is read in the paper every once in a while and see where somebody went down to Mexico and had a car accident and got thrown in jail and spent two or three years there [speaker002:] oh gosh isn't that awful that'd be awful um yeah we're lucky to live in the United States there's no doubt about it [speaker001:] yeah yeah but uh [speaker002:] but let's see I really don't have anything else to say about jury and [speaker001:] I I believe I'm about uh exhausted my [speaker002:] okay well it was good to talk to you all right [speaker001:] okay you too and you have a good day bye-bye [speaker002:] you too bye-bye

[speaker001:] Tell me what books you read. [speaker002:] Oh, boy [breathing]. [speaker001:] [Breathing]. [speaker002:] Well, um, I haven't been doing a whole lot of reading for enjoyment lately. I read, uh, one book a friend recommended to me. I can't even remember the guy's name. It was a science fiction, Dean Cole, or something like that. And it was so frightening and it had so much violence in it I just [breathing], [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] could hardly stand it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I try to avoid the, [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. I didn't think it was so great. She thought it was riveting, you know, but, I couldn't deal with that. But, um, [lipsmack] mostly I read, I'm a marriage and family counselor and mostly I read things to do with raising kids, and now I have two little kids, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or co-dependency, or, you know, fifty thousand things like John Bradshaw's books on, uh, THE FAMILY and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] HOMECOMING and INNER CHILD, and so I read usually that kind of stuff. If, and right now I'm reading, um, [lipsmack] Judith Viorst's book called NECESSARY LOSSES, where she talks about different losses that we've had in our lives that we have to get past if we're going to mature and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so, in m-, in my spare time with a two and a half and a three and a half year old [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I, I read [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] That does cut into your, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] reading time a lot. [speaker002:] That's really changed my reading habits, because I used to read so [NOISE] much, especially when I was in school. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] You know, but, gosh it's, uh, it's getting pathetic now [NOISE]. If, [speaker001:] Well my, [speaker002:] I get through [NOISE], [speaker001:] my kids are up, [speaker002:] a magazine, I've been, [speaker001:] and [NOISE] out of the house now. So, you know, I will, uh, encourage you that [NOISE] you do get t-, a little more time to yourself later on [LAUGHTER] [NOISE]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I, [speaker002:] Later you're, [speaker001:] won't say what. [speaker002:] probably looking for your kids so you can [LAUGHTER] talk to them when they're out running around with friends [NOISE]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. What do you read? [speaker001:] Oh, uh, well, I read for a living. Uh, [speaker002:] You do? Who, [speaker001:] I'm an editor. [speaker002:] Oh, well how interesting. [speaker001:] And s-, [speaker002:] What kind of books? [speaker001:] so, I, I'm at the Center for Advanced Study of the Behavioral Sciences and therefore, [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] I read, uh, psychology, sociology, anthropology, political science, philosophy, linguistics, history, [speaker002:] Oh, [speaker001:] uh, [speaker002:] my goodness. [speaker001:] yeah, and you name it. I've read some of it. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well that sounds like a fascinating job. [speaker001:] It really is. It's, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] it's a great place to be [NOISE] and the, uh, it's nice to work with people [NOISE], uh, who are not required to use your services, and so therefore, are grateful and not arguing y-, [NOISE] with you about them. If they [NOISE] don't, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] want an editor, they don't come [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] [NOISE] That's true. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's true. Well, you probably, I, I seem to remember that, uh, little byline [NOISE] on a lot of things I've read. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] Um, is, is, is that, um, do they have a mail [NOISE] kind of campaign that they send to professionals in the, [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] social, [speaker001:] We, [speaker002:] No? [speaker001:] don't. Uh, normally we don't publish, uh, things under our own [NOISE], [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] imprint. Uh, [speaker002:] That sounds so familiar. [speaker001:] we have books that are written here [NOISE] that are then published by all sorts of different, uh, [NOISE] commercial and academic publishers and university [NOISE] presses. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Noise] So, uh, I end up sometimes reading the things that are written here all the way through, sometimes just a few chapters because that's as far as they get [NOISE]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, I also get, of course, lots [NOISE] of references to neat stuff to read about. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, I'm, uh, I was just thinking when they [NOISE] told me the topic, I should just, I should read the, uh, titles of the five [NOISE] books that are sitting on my desk right now that I'm in the middle of. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Noise] [LAUGHTER] And, uh, I'm reading, uh, WITHIN THE PLANTATION HOUSEHOLD, which is a history, uh, sort of a sociological history of [NOISE] southern women, black and white [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Oh, [speaker001:] living on plantations. *needs slash unit [speaker002:] that sounds interesting. Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, a book called [NOISE] POISONS OF THE PAST, which is about ergotisms, that, uh, fungus that grows on rye [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] it causes the, uh, [lipsmack] uh [NOISE], [speaker002:] I thought that was going to be some-, [speaker001:] Saint Anthony's Fire Disease, where, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] people fell into fits [NOISE] and, [speaker002:] Oh, my goodness. [speaker001:] There is a, [NOISE] a theory, at least, that a lot of people who were accused of witchcraft were actually under the influence of erga. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] And a book called JOB [NOISE] CUES, GENDER CUES, which explains, [baby] uh, how certain professions and vocations get, uh, [NOISE] flip flopped from one gender predominance to the other, like [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, nursing, [speaker002:] Nursing or, [speaker001:] started out all men and then in the nineteenth century, began to have women. And now it's practically all women. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And that, uh, [speaker002:] Secretaries. I bet that used to be mostly men who were secretaries of any type for business. [speaker001:] That's right. And the, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] thing that changed that was the manual typewriter. It [NOISE], [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Oh. [speaker001:] then it became, you see, just sort of a clerical task. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] When you [NOISE] wrote it out in long hand you were a, [speaker002:] Then you were important [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yes. You were a confidential [NOISE] assistant to the, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] person. [speaker002:] Yeah. Like the scribes who did the old documents, you know, for churches and, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] stu-, yeah [lipsmack]. [speaker001:] And then, [speaker002:] Well, that's interesting. [speaker001:] I've got a book called FASHIONS IN [NOISE] SCIENCE, which is a sociology that explains, uh, why certain theories get to be popular in, uh, sociology. And, uh, how difficult it is to swim against the tide if you have a different idea that isn't vatted by your peers [NOISE]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then I have one novel that's called FIRST LIGHT, that's about, uh, archaeology [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] the British novel. So, [NOISE] it's really quite interesting. I haven't, [speaker002:] Gosh. [speaker001:] got too, [speaker002:] Really. [speaker001:] far into it yet. [speaker002:] So, are you reading these in the form of just like printed manuscripts, [speaker001:] Uh, those are, [speaker002:] that have not been pub-, [speaker001:] all books that [NOISE] are out, uh, published and bound now. But, they're just things, [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] that,, pertain to various things I'm working on or were, uh, mentioned prominently and attracted my curiosity. So I got them out of the library and decided I'd read [NOISE] some more in them. [speaker002:] Yeah. My goodness. Well, that's [NOISE] fascinating. Gosh. [speaker001:] So, I read a lot of history and, uh, a few novels, occasional mystery stories, just, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for fun. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah [NOISE]. I never have gotten into any of the romantic novels or any of that kind of stuff. My husband reads a lot of the, um, [lipsmack] well, he did before we had kids [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] the STAR TREK, and all those kind of sci-fi kinds of, [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] things, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know [lipsmack]. But, he's got a, quite a collection of those. But, uh, my stuff re-, uh, revolv-, revolves around, uh, one hun-, one thou-, let's see, I've got one called ONE THOUSAND PRACTICAL PARENTING TIPS, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] which teaches you to put elastic instead of shoelaces, [speaker001:] Oh, hey. That's, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] in your kid's shoes [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] a nifty idea. [speaker002:] Hey, I've done that to every [LAUGHTER] pair my three year old has. [speaker001:] Great. [speaker002:] You know, [NOISE] really. [speaker001:] Oh, I think the, [speaker002:] And, uh, [speaker001:] the boom to parents and the, the shoelace department was those little Velcro tabs [NOISE]. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Yeah, [speaker001:] I think that's incredibly. [speaker002:] but there's a surprising number that are still around that aren't, [NOISE] that don't have those, so that's an alternate means of dealing with [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but, um, [lipsmack] I'm trying to think of what else I've got. Uh, since I'm, um, a therapist and all, I've done recently a lot of research into some of the twelve step groups. So, I've got all the different alcoholics, what they call the blue, the blue book, the big book, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] and all the O A literature and all the CODA literature, so I'm trying to get fami-, more familiarized with that because I refer clients and different groups [NOISE] and, uh, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] well, let's see [breathing], [speaker001:] What do you think is, [speaker002:] I'm trying to think of the, [speaker001:] the most promising, or practical [NOISE] book, uh, of that kind you've read recently? [speaker002:] [Lipsmack] Um, Oh, I def-, I have a love affair with John Bradshaw. I just have found everything I've read of his to be fabulous, [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] um, he started out with one called THE FAMILY, which does the family systems and people's roles in the family. And then he did, uh, HE-, HE-, HEALING THE SHAME THAT BINDS YOU, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] about how shame can just be so paralyzing and people isolate and withdraw. And then the third one that he came out with is now called HOMECOMING [NOISE]. Uh, and, uh, there's a subtitle to it, I never can remember what it is. It's something like, um, A JOURNEY IN, IN YOUR INNER, [speaker001:] Yeah. I knew, [speaker002:] CHILD or something like that. [speaker001:] his literary agent in Houston when she was just, uh, convincing him to write all this down. He was [speaker002:] Oh, [speaker001:] teaching, [speaker002:] he's just great. And now he's had the, the first, the first one and the third one put into a ten session, uh, P B S series. [speaker001:] Yeah. I s-, I saw one of those episodes on P B S. Uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] from time to time out here, we have four different P B S [NOISE] channels that we can get on the cable [NOISE]. And, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] they'll have all ten of those shown back [child] to back, [speaker002:] I know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] in the middle of the night [LAUGHTER], for people can video tape them. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, so people can just tape them I guess, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know [LAUGHTER]. But, I [NOISE] definitely have gotten a lot out of his lately [NOISE]. He's just probably been one of the most, there's an author that's in, um, [NOISE] that's in, uh, Arizona, who [NOISE] used to be in Dallas. It seems like we have a lot of these that have been in [NOISE], [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Texas, called P M Melody, who does a lot of writing on co-dependency. And she's got some fabulous workbooks out and a whole series of tapes and, uh, [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] [Child] a workbook called BREAKING FREE, and just some real, uh, [NOISE] helpful, practical things [NOISE] for co-dependency. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So that's been [NOISE] another one that I've thought was real helpful. But, other than that, uh, my reading centers on PADDINGTON [NOISE] BEAR, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and [LAUGHTER] WINNIE THE POOH, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, yes. [speaker002:] and [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh. [speaker002:] DOCTOR SEUSS [LAUGHTER]. But, I really have enjoyed exploring children's literature because there's so much more, uh, new things out that, you know, I, I'd pull out the classics once in a while for my kids, but there's such cute things, [speaker001:] Oh, there's some, [speaker002:] out for kids. [speaker001:] absolutely wonderful illustrated, [speaker002:] Oh, I know. [speaker001:] children's books. [speaker002:] And I just go to the library because I just, they're expensive, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean, it, and they go through them so fast, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know. So I just, I really have been going to the library and getting my ten books out and they just love to sit and read. And now finally the littlest one is oldest to, to sit, you know, and watch the pictures instead of [LAUGHTER] grabbing it and trying, [speaker001:] e-, right. [speaker002:] to rip the pages out. [speaker001:] Uh, well, [speaker002:] So, that, that has been fun to do do that {D you, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] know, } go through the children's literature, [speaker001:] I read, [speaker002:] and, uh [NOISE], [speaker001:] THE PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY, [speaker002:] uh, [speaker001:] uh, which lists all the upcoming books, forthcoming books, and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, there are so many that look like they would just be absolutely wonderful. But I was tickled to see that some publisher is, uh, reprinting the, the [NOISE] James Thurber books for children. THE, [speaker002:] Oh, wonderful. [speaker001:] WONDERFUL O and THE THIRTEEN CLOCKS, that have been out of print for about, oh, I think about twenty years. [speaker002:] Gosh. Really? Well, I'm going to have to, [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] look for those. Yeah. [speaker001:] I had those for my kids and they really did, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] enjoy them. Oh, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but they were, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] old copies then. I didn't buy them when my kids were little. And so, they probably were out of print all of, already when my kids were small. But, um, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] I, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] was really happy to see that, yeah, I guess it's in honor of his hundredth,

[speaker001:] uh which ones have you seen lately [speaker002:] oh I just I'm sort of blanking tonight I just got done saying I just saw one um fairly recently uh oh I know uh uh the one with the two girls that take off from uh uh across across across the country on a crime spree [speaker001:] Thelma and Louise yeah I haven't seen that is it good [speaker002:] Thelma and Louise yeah yeah it really is it's it's interesting [speaker001:] is it [speaker002:] oh yeah I enjoyed I was gonna go see uh the Billy Crystal movie also which was I'm a little bit behind I usually rent them [speaker001:] yeah I I'm not familiar which which Billy Crystal movie [speaker002:] oh this is the uh just the one oh gosh it was the uh City Slickers right have you seen that [speaker001:] oh City Slickers that's a real good show yeah it's great uh it says a lot about uh uh you know I'm I'm young but it says a lot about middle life you know and uh uh it's a really good show [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah I I I've heard lots of good things about it and I would have would have liked to have seen it but I was with my wife and I figured she'd like Thelma and Louise better so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I'd heard it was really good too so [speaker001:] yeah uh [speaker002:] it is [speaker001:] yeah I'm not too familiar with Thelma and Louise uh uh uh uh recently I I've seen uh the Fisher King have you seen that [speaker002:] yeah no no [speaker001:] that's a really good show [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] uh has Jeff Bridges and and uh Robin Williams [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh really really good [speaker002:] yeah there's there's been a a fair number of of pretty good movies out recently [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I mean it kind of runs in in batches I mean for a while sometimes they come in a whole bunch of them that just I don't even you know doesn't even sound like something I want to see you know [speaker001:] uh uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah what what kind of movies in general do you like to watch [speaker001:] um well I like to be entertained once in a while but uh I I really enjoy watching a movie that uh where they don't really try and attract you know the great audience but rather put out a a real good movie [speaker002:] um um-hum [speaker001:] um uh always my my favorite movie of all time has been uh uh The Mission did you ever see that [speaker002:] no in fact I'm not even familiar with it I don't think [speaker001:] uh it's a a I think it's put out by Landmark Productions the same people who put out Chariots of Fire [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh it's a it's a has Robert DeNiro in it uh he plays one of the main characters and uh it's about uh Jesuit community in uh [speaker002:] Mission [speaker001:] at the Inca Falls in in uh South America Northern Argentina [speaker002:] hm hm oh uh uh-huh oh no in fact I I I'll I'll look for it because I I've been [speaker001:] uh really really good show yeah it's it's something that you know it's it's really stirring the cinematography is just beautiful and really beautiful scenes and real good music [speaker002:] um-hum actually yeah my wife's from down in that region around the Seven the called the the Seven Missions which are which are right down in this where I'm sure where it was filmed at [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and uh I'm sure that that would make it worth worth her watching she my my uh my movie watching has has severely uh has has changed a lot since I got married [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah she she likes uh action movies and uh and and comedies and so anything that's has anything little is a little little bit less than sort of mainstream Hollywood is [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] is boring to her and so I I I I really I used to watch a fair number of foreign films I used to watch a lot of sort of the less the less popular films [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] and I find I don't do it anymore or else I have to watch them on my own [speaker001:] yeah I'm much the same way I I I I have a fiance and it it gets very difficult to uh uh she yeah yeah [speaker002:] find something both of you will watch yeah um she it's it's funny because I mean most women aren't really sort of she's sort of Schwarzenegger fan type of yeah she really likes all these gory shoot them up films [speaker001:] oh really uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] keep her on the edge of her seat I'll watch them you know they're kind of fun to watch in a way [speaker001:] yeah yeah they are sometimes you're in the mood for it even [speaker002:] yeah but uh so it it it varies I don't seem to get you know as much variety these days lately as I used to [speaker001:] uh-huh I found when when I get when I get with my uh old college buddy we we usually rent uh good gladiator movie or two uh prior to that I I still enjoy watching those you you can't just watch them by yourself or else it's it's just not bearable [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but it's it's fun to [speaker002:] well yeah on the other hand you you know given that my wife likes those I I I occasionally like to watch them and and so uh you know so it's you can always count on her to watch something like that and she'll even watch things like karate movies and stuff which [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] you know which most most women won't won't come within ten feet of [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's that's the ones where they dub in dub in the English [speaker002:] the the all the all the all the sounds of the karate chops flying through the air but uh yeah [speaker001:] that's great uh on on foreign films did uh did you did you watch are you uh fluent in another language or [speaker002:] echo I speak yeah I speak several uh but I I don't mind watching subtitle movies uh no I I I don't [speaker001:] oh you don't I I don't either I I feel foolish sometimes because I I don't speak another language fluently but I do enjoy watching you know subtitles [speaker002:] yeah I mean for some people that's just you know that's out of the question you know if you give it subtitled they won't watch it [speaker001:] yeah

[speaker001:] Okay, what kind of fishing do you do? [speaker002:] Well, mostly, uh, a, a little fresh water fish, but mostly lake fishing like rainbow trout and stuff because I used to live in Utah. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, down here I haven't fished much in Texas. [speaker001:] That's one of the few things I've ever fished for is rainbow trout. [speaker002:] Oh, they're really not, I think they're good to eat. [speaker001:] What, what kind of bait do you use to catch them? [speaker002:] Oh, just, usually worms, night crawlers. Sometimes fish eggs. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] Sometimes [faint]. [speaker001:] Fish eggs? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Oh, I didn't know that. Huh. [speaker002:] Just little, just little fish eggs. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, [lipsmack] there's this one kind of cheese that you can put on the end of a hook and it will stay relatively well [breathing]. [speaker001:] Oh, I didn't know that. [speaker002:] Yeah [speaker001:] That's a great way. [speaker002:] and, and they really like that. [speaker001:] I think that would probably be a good way to catch catfish, also. [speaker002:] Now I have never caught catfish. [speaker001:] Oh, look, catfish, uh, personally I like to catch large mouth bass [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and catfish because they fight the best [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Because [breathing] they fight the best [mumbling] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But a, [LAUGHTER] a catfish will really just tear into anything like that, like liver [speaker002:] Oh, is that right? [speaker001:] or, uh, cheese or anything that smells terrible [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Now in Amarillo did you fish any of this? [speaker001:] Uh, no. Actually I always used to go to my grandparents' in Oklahoma [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] and they have the, uh, Lake Texoma right next to them. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So the, we used to catch some, uh, sand bass off Lake, there's a Roosevelt Bridge and what we'd do is let the line all the way to the bottom and crank up, you know [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] turns on the [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] reel about six to twelve times and the fish would be sitting at different levels. [speaker002:] Oh, how about that. [speaker001:] So, yeah, you just leave it at that level and in no time something would hit it and you could pull them up two and three times in a row, but you had to find out what level, how many cranks they were off the bottom. And if you left it on the bottom, there was a good chance that you'd catch catfish. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And, of course, depending on how big your bait was, uh, you know, would be depending on what you caught. [speaker002:] Oh, I think that is really interesting. [speaker001:] Yeah, that was a lot of fun. My grandfather used to do that and we used to have a light at the top of the water. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] He'd really spoiled me in that respect. [speaker002:] I think they're, see, and I wish I could go fishing here because I don't really know much about the fishing here. I guess it would, if you did it like you were just, uh, saying, that's pretty much like rainbow trout. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You bait the hook, you throw it in, you troll it [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] a little bit and then you wait [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and they troll it a little bit. [speaker001:] Well, if you, do you have any friends with ponds? [speaker002:] No. I don't [faint]. [speaker001:] I, uh, well, if you can fi-, well, or even a lake. If, uh, seems like every time somebody's on the bank, all they want to do is throw it out just as far as they can [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, uh, bring it in to you. But it's the opposite when you're fishing from a boat. You, you want to l-, make it land right on the shore and then drag like a plastic worm [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] and just have it come into the water like a, a regular animal or, or fish [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, well, you know, something coming off from the bank like they usually do [breathing]. So you don't have to really get, uh, fish from a boat, you know, because they're actually right there at the shore. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] But, I didn't used to be sold on plastic worms, but, uh, if, I am now [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] You are [LAUGHTER] now. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah [breathing]. [speaker002:] I've never used those. That's really interesting. [speaker001:] Yeah. It just, uh, just a slow reel and then let it sit on the bottom, but the key is to always have your line tight. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] And that way you can feel when they're hitting it, and believe me you'll know the difference. [speaker002:] Uh, what kind of fish do you like the best to eat? [speaker001:] Oh, crappie actually. [speaker002:] Oh, do you [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. I've been fishing in the, the ocean. We're about three hours from the ocean. And I also like Spanish mackerel. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] And you catch blues and, uh, that's a different kind of fishing off the pier, too. Have you ever fished off the pier? [speaker002:] Yes, I've done fishing like that but, but, uh, tell me what, uh, [lipsmack] where you'd catch crappie. My, my neighbor has gone before [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and done that, but, [speaker001:] Oh, the best thing for crappie is those little spinner baits and, and jigs. Uh, they have like yellow, uh, fuzz on a hook, you know, that kind of comes out. [speaker002:] Oh, oh, I know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, they're sort of like, well, I want to say flies, but not exactly like, [speaker001:] Yeah, get, but they're a little heavier and they're bigger. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Get the yellow ones. [speaker002:] The yellow. [speaker001:] Those are the ticket [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Okay [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [Breathing] And let them drop to the bottom and maybe do a, a kind of a slow reel. You don't even have to have a good rod or anything. Just, just even a regular line [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and you throw it out and, uh, the, the other thing that's real good is small, uh, it's a real small rapalla. It's about an inch and a half long and they're pure sil-, all silver, something real shiny about that long. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They'll go after that in a heartbeat also. Just anything that really shines or spins. [speaker002:] Yeah, my mom, she just loves to fish and she has a lot of those, those little, uh, they almost look neon. You know, they're just real color-, colorful [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] things on, onto her end. [speaker001:] That's it. [speaker002:] Yeah. And she d-, she's really a good fisher woman. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That's neat. [speaker002:] Well, you sound like you're a good fisher woman, too.

[speaker001:] I've done more painting than I want to talk about in my uh in my time I had a uh um three bedroom two and a half bath two story town house in Atlanta about ten years ago that I started I was just going to touch up paint in a couple of rooms before it was over I wound up painting the entire thing because the more I did it the worse it made everything else look [speaker002:] the rest look [speaker001:] so anyway but that included ceilings walls woodwork and everything and and you know I found out number one I can do it you know and I was I was really pleased with the results after it was finally finished but gosh it was a lot of work [speaker002:] yeah but you feel good about it when you've done it yourself and you do save a lot of money [speaker001:] yeah you really do yeah [speaker002:] but it's a mess and it's hard to find the time [speaker001:] uh-huh it is and well I was fortunate at the time I had a job that uh I uh [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] it was restrictly an eight hour job and uh so I but that really cut my social life out for gosh I don't know about a month and a half it seems like all I did I mean every spare minute I had a paint brush in my hand or a roller [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but like you say it it made a difference and it really increased the value of my property when I sold it I'm sure [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah it does yeah I've painted inside I haven't painted outside and that's what I need done now [speaker001:] yeah well my brother and sister-in-law in Austin uh are just finishing painting the entire outside of their house their house is almost all wood [speaker002:] but um [speaker001:] and what a lot of work that was and they had to scrape it and then [speaker002:] yeah that's the work yeah that's it [speaker001:] yeah and then putty and caulk and paint and I was up there about a month ago and what they had done looked marvelous but I mean the work was tremendous [speaker002:] yeah yeah I don't think I'll attempt that myself I I know I won't yeah I'll hire somebody to do that but in fact I had a workman here for a leak that he had to fix and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] for ten dollars he was willing to paint my daughter's ceiling so I said go ahead you paint the ceiling and then I'll do the walls and that was that was nice [speaker001:] listen you got a great bargain for ten for ten dollars let [speaker002:] yeah for ten dollars he was saying he was chatting and we were having a good old time so he just said all right ten dollars I'll do the ceiling [speaker001:] uh-huh I that's incredible I because painting the ceilings is absolutely the worst thing and and especially [speaker002:] yeah it is [speaker001:] especially so so many ceilings have this horrible you know this horrible texture that's just like you know popcorn blown [speaker002:] right right well hers didn't it was just a smooth ceiling but [speaker001:] yeah but but the place that I had in Atlanta that I wound up painting the ceilings everywhere it had a pretty pretty much a lot of texture on and it just was a nightmare to paint and I just you know I [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] just I I got it now I accumulated a lot of drop cloths and I had my painting gear that you know the same clothes I'd just throw them in the washer and you know wear them again and pretty soon they were just you know tie-dyed with paint [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but you know painting the ceiling if it's not smooth can really be a nightmare [speaker002:] oh yeah I have that in my living room and dining room but we had a leak and the insurance company's gonna pay to do the whole area [speaker001:] wow that's good [speaker002:] so that's gonna be a good deal I won't have to worry about that [speaker001:] yeah what was so funny with my my brother and sister-in-law in in Austin when they started uh talking about you know they knew they needed to paint their house and they got some estimates and they were just you know exorbitant so they started going around and and looking at paint colors and they must have looked at five hundred different paint chips and then they finally settled on white [speaker002:] white oh no oh no [speaker001:] uh but you know there again I you can't go wrong with your good basic white [speaker002:] yeah I guess I I think I'll go with an off-white [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I'm changing everything so [speaker001:] well that was the other thing too after I painted then I had to go in and uh change the window treatments because I you know got rid of some old uh uh wallpaper and you know so it went you know not only the paint but I wound up doing quite a few things so uh and changed out some lighting and and so forth and so on put some dimmers in [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah it's all challenging that's for sure I've the whole year it's taking me to redecorate my bedroom and my daughter's bedroom [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but it's pretty I love it I've upholstered walls and made curtains and [speaker001:] who did did you do the walls [speaker002:] I did yeah um-hum [speaker001:] did you really I'm impressed [speaker002:] and it looks so nice because you just take sheets and then everything can match [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] and it looks really pretty I love it it's just real feminine and just real pretty [speaker001:] yeah I like wall upholstery but uh that's something I would never even dream of [speaker002:] so oh it's easy oh if you can do all that you could do walls oh there's nothing to it [speaker001:] really huh [speaker002:] you can do a wall in half an hour [speaker001:] you're kidding [speaker002:] huh-uh staple gun is all it takes [speaker001:] oh okay did you put anything behind the sheet [speaker002:] I did I put the batting uh-huh and just staple it up there and staple your sheets up and then [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh and that's all it is to it [speaker002:] yeah and then you can glue a little edge around if you want to like I took some eyelet lace and I just hot glued it around the edge [speaker001:] yeah well [speaker002:] but it's nothing and it's just beautiful I love it [speaker001:] well I'll be well I'll have to keep that in mind I I just I don't [speaker002:] after just do the rest and

[speaker001:] hi Kay [speaker002:] hi [speaker001:] I uh was thinking about salaries and benefits and uh was wondering what's the most important thing to you besides a salary in a job [speaker002:] uh-huh well um I we just recently graduated from Rice University and uh we were going through a lot of job interviews and things and some of the things that were important to me my uh when my husband was looking for his job was um hours you know we he had been in graduate school so I was used to his not being home at all so I was you know didn't want him to have a job that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] would make him kind of be on call all the time and have to go in at any time and you know even on the weekends and and um and things so that was important to me and also insurance [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] for the family our family because we'd like to be able to take care of our medical needs and not be thinking so much about whether or not you can afford it [speaker001:] sure yeah I don't ever want to have to worry about that that's real important to me um you know we have that that Aetna [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um that's what we the insurance that we have right now when we were in Colorado they had um a different type of HMO there that I really liked a lot [speaker002:] um-hum us too um-hum [speaker001:] it was um not that kind of HMO's where you have to go to their they're sort of like clinics you know uh but this was just an HMO where you could go to private practice doctors and to the regular [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] hospitals and all that but it was with a certain list of of doctors that you know participated in the HMO [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and um you know then you only had to pay the it for us it was a five dollar copayment every time you went to the doctor and uh three dollars for the prescriptions [speaker002:] well that's nice uh-huh that's good [speaker001:] and uh I especially liked the prescription especially since my children tend to have ear infections all the time that those prescriptions can be very expensive [speaker002:] um-hum oh I know we just went through that ourselves we just you know were like fifty dollars for this series of antibiotics and things [speaker001:] oh I know especially if you get what is it Seclor I think that that just about breaks the bank right there [speaker002:] um-hum the yes yes it's pretty bad well yeah and we um we were interested in having dental dental insurance too because um well having been in school we kind of put things off and only went in when we knew there was a problem somewhere and stuff and [speaker001:] um-hum do you [speaker002:] we wanted to be able to go in and have our teeth cleaned and just checked all over and [speaker001:] do you have the basic plan or do you have the the other one [speaker002:] we have um you know we're at Aetna with uh an we have like the medical the dental insurance is separate is that what you mean and I don't think it's the basic I think it's the other one [speaker001:] right the one that's like you get additional they'll pay a little bit more I think for the different procedures we just have the basic right now and [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] for most things it tends to cover it we don't have too many major um expenses at this point but we have been able to find doctors dentists that will accept pretty much whatever the basic plan pays a couple of times we've had to pay oh I don't know three to five dollars but that's not that bad [speaker002:] uh-huh no that's great yeah we need to go shopping for dentists and things like that too yes and let's see besides insurance other things that we looked at um well my husband does not like to commute very far and and we don't like him to be you know having to drive an hour to work or something [speaker001:] um-hum no we don't like that either [speaker002:] so we kind of looked for where where the uh his office would be located and how far well he's uh you know he's at the one that's at um [speaker001:] is his office in Plano [speaker002:] seventy five at uh six thirty five and so well by living in Plano we're just about fifteen minutes away and [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh that's not bad [speaker002:] especially especially when they finish all the construction out here and we didn't want him to let you know to like we had some job offers in the New York area and we thought well you know he would be really commuting [speaker001:] right oh yes you're not kidding [speaker002:] and not only is it you know trouble to have to drive but it takes time away from your home and your family when you're out driving [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] and um so that was something that was important to us and because like like I say I we kind of felt deprived that he had been in school and been away from us for so long that we were anxious to do everything we could to have you know made us be more together and and what other can you think of another thing that you guys looked at and [speaker001:] well that those are some of the things that are very important to us too um [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] we we'd like you know other benefits that are provided um the athletic facilities that that you can sometimes take advantage of um [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I think that's that's pretty nice but I have to say that since we've come here we haven't done it too much though we haven't enrolled in too many of the classes or or any of that but that's a that's a nice benefit to have [speaker002:] um-hum that's true that's really important um also what um opportunities there would be for advancement I think we looked at besides just you know what salary you would be having having now but when when could uh your salary increase and [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] is there was there somewhere to go [speaker001:] yeah that that's one of the I think the hard things right now I mean they're going through some some tough times to say the least uh I know many of us are thankful that he still has a job [speaker002:] um-hum yes that that we can make our mortgage payments and yeah that's really true [speaker001:] uh uh one of the drawbacks I think of working for a big company is often times you do have to follow pretty rigid um guidelines um if if an employee is especially exemplary I think it's often in a smaller company it's a little bit easier for them to say hey you know this person did a wonderful job give him a big bonus kind of thing a lot of times [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] smaller companies have bonus plans where I think in a large company it's hard to do that because there're just so many people to deal with and you have to have guidelines if you know for salary increases and things like that [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] just one of the things that that happens when someone when you're dealing with a large company [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] but well we also were interested in um you know being sure that he felt like he liked the people that he would be working with and that there would be some uh opportunity for [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] for friendships that way so that you would feel happy going to work everyday and rather than thinking oh I really I can't stand these people I but uh so that's something that was important to him and [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] thinking he could um work under those [speaker001:] how long has he been in his present position [speaker002:] oh just since last last summer it's only been not even a year yet so [speaker001:] uh-huh well I was going to say it sounds like you you picked out a lot of good things you know for him to to have to uh to choose in a position that has a lot of thought put into it in a big company though you also get moved around a lot he may be having to drive over here to Lewisville some time or or we may be having to drive to Plano you never know [speaker002:] yes we're oh yeah you never know we're hoping that that won't be the case we I think one of the most one of the most deciding factors of why we chose um this area is that um my husband was raised in Irving [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so he we have a lot of family here his side of the family and being when we were down in Houston we were isolated I mean it's not that far but people would have we didn't have anyone in town that was our family and although we had really good friends and and we had church and school support and things um [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] we were anxious to move close to family members just because we wanted our children to know their grandparents and things like that [speaker001:] yeah we're very [speaker002:] so that really made a big difference I think in why we chose TI and chose to move this way [speaker001:] we're very far from our families and it's really hard families little children and um they were the only grandchildren and so our our families are are are really far away in fact this is a little off the topic but yesterday my mother happened to be on a train going from Phoenix to back to Chicago and it stopped in Dallas for a half an hour so [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I loaded the kids in the car and we went downtown and met her train for half an hour and brought her a little snack and an Easter basket and I think it it made her trip a little bit nicer [speaker002:] oh that's nice yeah and it is I think it is important to you know want to be close to your family and [speaker001:] yeah I mean it's it's hard I mean to to just for us to snatch a half hour like that is is a special occasion for us so um [speaker002:] um-hum well that's definitely the way we feel [speaker001:] it's nice it's nice that you can have your family close like that [speaker002:] we're really enjoying it I wonder what it would be like I mean I I wanted to be close to family but I also thought that it would be harder to be close to family but it's turned out really good and I think that you know we're really satisfied with that choice and [speaker001:] yeah sometimes it can be [speaker002:] we you know kind of felt like um it was worth it to us [speaker001:] that's good [speaker002:] but anyway well I my children just ran out the door so I need to go check on them but I've really enjoyed this conversation conversation and and uh nice to have met you and you have a good day okay bye-bye [speaker001:] okay well I have too okay you too bye-bye

[speaker001:] community I'll start we have a lot of uh we we've started doing some and uh in in uh we live in a suburb of Chicago recycling has become somewhat in vogue we've always had recycling centers around where you can take in newspapers and bottles and things and put them in the right bin but it's totally voluntary and basically only the ecologically minded would go to such pains places because it's it's a drive out of your way to take things to these but recently we started a program I think is getting encourages a lot more participation which is uh you have to now pay for each trash bag that that the garbage man picks up you have to pay a dollar and a half and we uh you have to buy a sticker uh and it costs a dollar and a half and you have to put the sticker on your trash bag and if you don't have that sticker on there then the garbage man won't pick it up now that's that that's for regular trash if you have recyclable trash [speaker002:] I would [speaker001:] like newspapers or right now it's limited to I think the newspapers and plastic bottles plastic milk bottles then they'll pick that up for free so there's the motivation basically your regular garbage you have to pay to get picked up and recyclable stuff if you put it in a recyclable bin or recyclable uh container they they give you one of these then that that doesn't cost anything so that encourages people to participate [speaker002:] well that's makes sense ours seems really crazy because well we've had the places all the shopping centers I mean the local shopping centers where there's a grocery store and a you know drug store and so on have bins around where you can leave papers or aluminum cans that type of thing for uh oh the Kiwanis or some sort of groups pick them up and make money for their causes and those are fairly popular and work fairly well [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and you can also take your own stuff to a recycling center and you know get the few pennies you get for the papers or cans I know some people who do that but to me that too much trouble for the few cents the uh so I just drop it off at the local place when I go to the store and let them you know some good agency make some money off of it what little they get and uh that works for me but now as I understand it from reading the paper the system seems totally backwards [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh they are starting a thing where all of our garbage bills are going up like a dollar and a half a month [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and that's because they will give us containers you know certain colors of bins and stuff to put cans and papers and so on in that all makes sense but if you don't want to recycle you can say I don't want to recycle and save a dollar and a half a month [speaker001:] oh no [speaker002:] which the theory is that if you don't want to recycle with the city who actually has a private contractor do it uh if you don't recycle with the city then you're going to take it yourself and you know make your money off of your paper and cans somehow it seems to me like people will just say I don't want to pay the buck and a half and I'll throw it in the garbage so [speaker001:] so like somebody messed up [speaker002:] it sounds to me like it's messed up but they've had [speaker001:] a strategic miscalculation on their part [speaker002:] I guess so we'll have to see what happens they're just supposed to start distributing these blue plastic containers for cans and bottles and different kind different colors for different things uh [speaker001:] so it's totally voluntary even if you pay your dollar and a half you don't you you can still put everything in the trash [speaker002:] you still could so it doesn't make a lot of sense to me and I think I understand it pretty well from both the paper and TV and we'll see what happens [speaker001:] uh any idea how many people are going to do it are going to do it [speaker002:] oh supposedly the majority are [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] it's pretty ecologically conscious here [speaker001:] so some of the people will go along with it anyway [speaker002:] oh I think so plus a lot of people will probably just pay the buck and a half and not even notice the difference or care [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh it seems strange now at the the university where I work it's uh strange too because they have places you can leave cans and some campus organization recycles them [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] and uh there is a campus recycling bins not bins but like I work in a library [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and there are barrels where we can recycle newspapers and different types of things but they're in staff areas but we have wanted to have specially marked trash cans next to all the copy machines

[speaker001:] all right [speaker002:] have you ever been drug tested [speaker001:] um that's a good question um I had a job I had to go get a blood test for [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um and they and they did a full blood screen on me but they didn't call that a drug test so that I think they checked for drugs they just don't tell you they did [speaker002:] yeah I had I've had uh two or three drug tests that I had to get before I could start working at a job [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh different jobs I had one at TI and then one at another engineering company and really I mean I don't mind them I don't do drugs anyway I guess if I did maybe I would but um I don't know I know a girl that she's a nurse and they get drug tested randomly I've never been randomly drug tested [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but that would probably bother me to wake up one day and find out halfway through the day that you're going to be drug tested and you didn't know about it [speaker001:] yeah well I guess it depends on if you got something to worry about [speaker002:] yeah I guess so [speaker001:] I guess so [speaker002:] do you think that it's right [speaker001:] well uh uh I I come from kind of a biased opinion because I'm a a therapist and a drug and alcohol counselor [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I've done employee assistant work and I I know the the kind of cost businesses go through in terms of accidents on the job [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] that are specifically drug and alcohol related and it's like in the billions of dollars every year [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um and the the only way that they can prevent that is is you know making sure that the employees are drug and alcohol free [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] and you know the the problem in the work place is that that people are like if your boss is your drinking buddy or whatever I mean you can come to come to work drunk and get in an accident and he'll cover up for you and nobody knows about it but could you know ends up costing the company lots and lots of money [speaker002:] right that's true [speaker001:] so you know there [speaker002:] I believe it's right especially for certain jobs I think anyone in a in a public job like bus drivers and cab drivers and police officers and things like that I think they should be randomly drug tested I believe full force in that [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker002:] I don't know that I believe every secretary in every company needs to be [speaker001:] true [speaker002:] you know secretaries aren't aren't really going to cost the company that much money if they fall face forward in their typewriter or something so I don't know I I'm kind of biased too because I don't do drugs and so I really don't care one way or another if anybody wants to pull me up tomorrow and test me because I have nothing to worry about [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] so I guess that's kind of biased [speaker001:] yeah well and it's I I think one of the problems with it is it affects a lot of other folks on the job [speaker002:] yeah it does [speaker001:] if somebody else is impaired because generally you know it um you find out one way or another if somebody's got a problem on the job [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] and if even even if like you say even if it's just the secretary if her work or abilities start affecting her coworkers then it it's still a problem [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] but what do you do about the occasional user that may have gone to a party three days before and you know it's it's been the whole weekend since they've done anything and they happen to be tested Monday morning and they could be fired for that you know that that's kind of unfair also [speaker001:] well yeah I guess it comes with the turf [speaker002:] yeah I guess so I guess if you're going to do it you need to suffer the consequences [speaker001:] yeah and then you're in in in terms of drugs they're illegal so you're [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] you're breaking the law anyway [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] um probably the the biggest problem with those is they don't do a real good job of of assessing for alcohol [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] and that's probably the biggest problem there is [speaker002:] yeah I think so more than drugs and I know a lot of companies that will put you in an alcohol rehabilitation before they would put you in a drug rehab [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they would pay for an alcohol but they don't always pay for drug rehabilitation [speaker001:] uh-huh well I guess that's one of the positive things that has has come out of it some of the employee assistance program if you do test positive for something [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they will give you an opportunity opportunity opportunity to go get your life straight rather than to lose your job [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] and I think [speaker002:] I think that's fair [speaker001:] yeah and I think the benefits the company benefits in the long run [speaker002:] yeah that's true that's about all I have to say on it [speaker001:] what what kind of testing do they do when you went [speaker002:] uh it's a urine test and they uh [speaker001:] urine screen yeah [speaker002:] it was really very official you have to go in a room solely by yourself sign papers that say you were totally alone sign papers that say this is yours and and you have to fill the bottle yourself and label it yourself and all of that so that they're sure that you haven't borrowed anybody's I guess or something [speaker001:] uh-huh well that happens [speaker002:] yeah I know I can't it's hard to believe but I guess it does [speaker001:] it happens a lot there there are people that know pay other people for that [speaker002:] I know I'm amazed at the things people will do [speaker001:] to help them out yeah [speaker002:] it is amazing I guess there are people that do that and they are those are expensive tests I'm glad I never had to pay for one [speaker001:] yeah yeah it depends really really really on how how strong a test it is they've got different degrees as far as as how far back they can check [speaker002:] yeah I guess so [speaker001:] they got some unusual things besides blood and urine tests they've they've got some companies that are doing um hair tests [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah well that they'll pull out one of your hairs and they can apparently test um back a certain period of time [speaker002:] how weird I didn't know that [speaker001:] um because um some of the the residue ends up in your hair follicles you know it's kind of [speaker002:] oh that's weird [speaker001:] hair follicles I guess are just dead protein and they [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it it's apparently almost almost like a a calendar they they've got it pretty precise now that they can go back and look at in terms of growth in a hair when you used and and that type of thing [speaker002:] that's wild [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] it's amazing the things they can find out from different things on your body [speaker001:] yeah so I guess if they perfect that and then it's not quite as cumbersome as having to go fill a bottle or give blood or something like that [speaker002:] yeah that's true that's true I'm glad I never had to do that by giving blood I can't stand the thought of giving blood [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I can't even do it for Wadley even though it's a good cause [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well I enjoyed talking to you [speaker001:] well I did too [speaker002:] thank you [speaker001:] uh-huh bye bye [speaker002:] bye bye

[speaker001:] okay we're ready to begin [speaker002:] okay uh okay one of the things they said about how you feel about putting you an elderly person in a nursing home um [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] I'd had that situation presented to me personally about three years ago when I had to put my place my dad in a nursing home and um [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] he had Alzheimer's and he uh wandered and I had to put him in there for his own safety because I could not I couldn't care for him here any longer I tried as hard as I could [speaker001:] is that pretty much a full time care situation isn't it [speaker002:] yes and uh I had to work and he would get up in the middle of the night and he could get out and wander down the street and I was afraid for his safety um [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and so I had to make that decision um [speaker001:] did you did you um check into um a lot of different facilities and see what they care they offered [speaker002:] yes I did I checked into the facilities uh the other thing that I did and I've recommended other people to do the same thing sometimes is to check and with people that have family members in that nursing facility you know see if you can find out who who has a family member there or if you go and check it stop and ask somebody when you see them you know do you have you know what relative do you have here um how is the care are you satisfied [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um it took me quite a while to choose [speaker001:] did you find there was a large range of costs involved in in nursing homes [speaker002:] yes very much so there was a large range of costs uh and the cost didn't necessarily reflect the care [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] the cost some of the costs went for other amenities for those that were uh up and ambulatory like really nice dining rooms and you know uh things like that but that was for one segment but then the other segment that needed full nursing care I didn't feel I got the benefit of the extra cost [speaker001:] is that what that's what I'm I'm thinking uh my mother right now is is able to care for herself and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh I was interested in looking uh for something that would have a a range of care I guess so that you know [speaker002:] right and you would want the maybe the uh extra amenities you know like the very nice dining room and you know the freedom of the grounds to be nice so they can walk out there and you know activities you'd organized organized activities [speaker001:] yeah yeah organized activities [speaker002:] and things like that [speaker001:] the uh ones that offer more uh uh care I I assumed that they have certain requirements for their uh nursing and medical staff uh some sort of requirements state requirements or [speaker002:] right right yeah each state is different but uh here here in Texas there are certain you know requirements [speaker001:] yeah is there um uh did you find there was a waiting list for some of them or to get into [speaker002:] some of them yes there was a waiting list um [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] in fact I had uh one when my I first started I went through a series of let's see I had my dad in two different nursing homes when I first started he was in one that wasn't total total patient care but where he could be watched but he had the freedom to wander around and and help caring caring for himself but he could do you know he could feed himself he could do things for himself um [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and I had him on a waiting list there then he got so that he could they could not handle him at that level and they didn't have a higher level at that facility which I really didn't think of [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] you know when I checked him in uh so then I had to go and search I had to start all over again [speaker001:] do you know whether or not uh some of the uh programs such as uh Medicaid a uh help fund any of of the costs involved in in elderly care [speaker002:] uh Medicaid will under certain circumstances Medicare will again under you know have to be discharged from the hospital and for so many days uh Medicare will like I said under certain circumstances my dad did not was not eligible for Medicaid and Medicare would not cover Alzheimer's [speaker001:] okay so there's there's uh some things they'll cover and some they won't [speaker002:] so that yeah [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] it almost goes by case by case [speaker001:] yeah um that's uh that's something I think many people uh have to address at some point or other and and uh it it's a tough decision to make especially depending on your the care that is needed and and uh [speaker002:] it is [speaker001:] uh in in today's life more and more children really can't uh with working both couples working it gets almost impossible to do that at home anymore [speaker002:] it it does and

[speaker001:] have you ever done this [speaker002:] yes I have [speaker001:] what did you do [speaker002:] unfortunately [speaker001:] unfortunately uh oh this will be interesting [speaker002:] it yeah it it's it's really hard to please everybody and it it takes a lot of planning a lot more a lot more effort you know you have to decided what you're going to do have you ever done one [speaker001:] well actually I'd I sort of do this uh anytime my family comes to town [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I mean we have a very immediate family it's not really extended [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh I was an only child my mother is an only child so we don't have like tons and tons of relatives so it's really my parents and I have five children three are married and they have little kids [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and so you know it's basically us and so when every body comes it is very hectic and I guess that's as close to what we have as a reunion and we do this at Christmas and we just did this last week and so um it's hard to get everyone to be able to come at the same time [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that's the hard part is was my son was missing last week because he's a teacher and he had things he had to do and he couldn't just leave but uh it's really hard to get everyone together but we don't have lots of aunts and uncles and things like that to consider [speaker002:] yeah our um uh the ones I was involved in was with my wife's family and it's very extended there are aunts and great-aunts and cousins and cousin's children [speaker001:] yeah that would be so much harder [speaker002:] and there's oh over the last fourteen years depending on where we went and what we did there's anywhere from and thirty or forty to fifty sixty and sometimes more than that you know during different phases of what we're trying to do [speaker001:] uh so how often do you try to all get together [speaker002:] um they try every year [speaker001:] oh no are you all from the same place pretty much or [speaker002:] we're kind of in the same area most everybody is from uh Idaho and Utah [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and there are some from there well there's a couple back east and they travel they've come a few times there's some from California [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I think there's some from Washington [speaker001:] where do you have these things I mean how long do they [speaker002:] usually we've been having them in Idaho that's where [speaker001:] it's at someone's house or I mean [speaker002:] um no we've had them out in uh kind of wilderness uh areas before we go camping [speaker001:] so you go camping do you I see well that's kind of good [speaker002:] and we've had them at resorts uh you know smaller resort places uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know kind of like camp ground things [speaker001:] but that way no one has all the work I mean once it's planned nobody has to worry about fixing food for everybody and that kind of thing right [speaker002:] well we we do uh we we have some traditional things and the first night's usually like a potluck everybody just brings whatever they want and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and we have those kind of foods and and then usually the first morning breakfast is just that each body does their own and then have games all day [speaker001:] so there is a lot of planning though for things like that I guess anyway huh [speaker002:] um-hum yeah there there is we we do uh uh you know we have we have quite a few we have a sing along one of the uncles plays the guitar and sings and then everybody puts on a talent show each family's supposed to [speaker001:] that's so neat though that's great [speaker002:] do talent show things and we have an an auction everybody brings in made goods or things that they do and we have an auction and then that goes into the family fund [speaker001:] oh and who has the family fund [speaker002:] and well they elect officers every year [speaker001:] you're kidding I have never heard of this [speaker002:] uh they have uh yeah they have a they have a a president usually they try to elect the family and inside that family there'll be the president and or the chairman or whatever and then each person has an assignment to to you know carry out one part of the thing like one one one person will have um the games and one will have the food and one will have the auction and one'll have the program [speaker001:] oh boy that's a big job for one family [speaker002:] whatever it is so it well well when I'm talking family it's it's like my mother-in-law my mother-in-law's children so that'd my wife and her her sisters and brothers [speaker001:] uh-huh I see so it's separated really yeah [speaker002:] right so it's um it uh you know it's extended it's extended family what it is is my mother my mother-in-law and her sisters and brothers [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and their oh I don't know there's twelve of them or fourteen of them or something like that not all of them are living still but there's probably eight or nine that still are [speaker001:] hum [speaker002:] and then all of their kids and their kid's kids and [speaker001:] yeah I see [speaker002:] so it's

[speaker001:] All right. Uh, exercise huh [music]? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, as a matter fact, I work out in the mornings. I belong to Presidents. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, I have got a routine for every morning of the week and I don't work out on Saturday or Sunday [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, uh, I do, I do a combination of, uh, uh, running and weight training [music]. [speaker002:] They set that up for you. [speaker001:] No, I, uh, actually I just, uh, joined on my own and I have been thinking about getting with a, uh, one of their counselors just so see what, uh, they might have to offer [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] as far as, uh, alternatives. But, I pretty much, uh, worked on my own routine. [speaker002:] And, uh, what kind of running do you do? [speaker001:] They have got the track on the inside. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, I run one mile on Monday, Wednesdays and Fridays and then on Tuesdays and Thursdays, I run two miles. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then after that, I work out with weights. [speaker002:] Is is just aerobics or, [speaker001:] Uh, I work out with free weights. [speaker002:] No, uh, I mean the running. [speaker001:] Oh, uh, yeah. It is really the, uh, aerobic work out part. [speaker002:] You do it, you do a mile in about eight minutes or less? [speaker001:] Uh, about seven minutes. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah. Then you wouldn't, then you don't get, uh, out of breath. [speaker001:] Uh, no I do [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Yeah, that is, that is a pretty good clip and I am pretty winded by the time I get done. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] So, [speaker002:] But, I mean it's not pushing it real hard, like, you know, if you tried to make six or something like that. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. I, I, uh, could probably go faster, but then I would wear myself out [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And I wouldn't be able to work out anything else. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Yeah. How about you? [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I don't run much any more. I did when I was in school. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Right now [music] I just lift, uh, weights and do push ups and sit ups [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, and I, uh, jump rope a little bit [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and that is about it [NOISE]. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I don't, I don't lift any heavy weight, uh, they are about a third of my body weight. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. So this, uh, do you just try and keep them, I guess, uh, firm and, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah and uh, uh, I play the trumpet and the, uh, the more upper body strength, the easier it is to play. [speaker001:] Yeah, uh, that is true. [speaker002:] You have to do a whole lot of sit ups and, uh, [music] and then, uh, I hurt my neck, uh, about three years ago. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So, you really have to build up around your neck and your shoulders to keep from, uh, hurting yourself when you play high. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. [speaker002:] You have to, you have to do it correctly, you know, it is like an exercise in itself, but [NOISE] a lot of people, uh, strain themselves doing it. [speaker001:] Oh, I see. Uh, so you are in, uh, in part of a band? [speaker002:] Uh, I play at Church. [speaker001:] Oh, I see, I see [NOISE]. I use to play an instrument when I was in high school, but it wasn't the trumpet [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, I was just wandering if that was what it was or something. I think, [speaker002:] Uh-huh [music]. [speaker001:] So do you have any plans of maybe running more when the weather gets nicer? [speaker002:] Well, yeah, uh, well the weather is nice except for when it rains, you know [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean in Dallas. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. I keep thinking about it, but that doesn't mean it gets done. I, I mostly jump rope more. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You know. [speaker001:] Yeah, I use to do a little bit of jumping rope, uh, when I was, uh, well a while back I was more into basketball [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, I could do a lot of jump rope and other jumping exercises to try to build my calves. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, but, it has been a while since I have done that. [speaker002:] Yeah. I do a toe lift and squats [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] for that. But you know it, it doesn't, uh, doesn't, uh, accustom your legs to the kind of strength that you have like when you are running for a long time. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] They tend to tighten up whenever, whenever you have to do something [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] at, uh, uh, great length of time. [speaker001:] Yeah, I, I, uh, that is true. I have noticed that, uh, [speaker002:] And it also builds too much mass if you just, you know. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, it is like, I, I lift weights with about the same curl weight as I do the squats with. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, then it doesn't bother me very much. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. Huh. That is interesting though. Uh, I have been thinking of changing, uh, I have done the same routine for almost two years now and I am thinking of, uh, changing it up. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, that is why, well, you know, I was thinking to talking to one of their counselors and seeing what different exercises they could get me on to, uh, get out of the routine. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Because I have heard that, you know, you get locked into a routine then you are going to get to a point where you just stop developing. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, I am looking at changing things a little bit. [speaker002:] Yeah, that is, uh, I have started doing more push ups and, and it has helped a lot and then I add sets to it [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so that I don't like you said, wear it out. I don't try to push it so the end [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] in one set.

[speaker001:] Well, uh, guess it's logical to ask, do you exercise any? [speaker002:] Well, unfortunately very little. Uh, much less than what I need to. [speaker001:] I'm about the same way, I, I do a little bit. My job kind of hinders me from exercising. I'm a night operator here at a industry down here and I don't really get out a lot to, because my job, to, to exercise. [speaker002:] Well, I, uh, am an assistant teacher and, uh, in business technology and I've, I think the most exercise I've gotten in the last three to four month is jumping up and down to go answer the kids' questions. It keeps me pretty busy, but it's not really the kind of exercise that gets your heart rate going. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And, uh, you know, it really, exercise is so important. [speaker001:] It is. [speaker002:] And I realize that. [speaker001:] That's, that's the way I feel. I'm used to being in pretty good shape because when I was in high school I stayed in pretty good shape, played a little basketball and stuff like that, but I've got, now, I'm in college and I go to school during the day and work at night. I can tell that I've not really done a whole lot. [speaker002:] When you, uh, exercise, what do you do? Do you do it at home or a club or, [speaker001:] Well, uh, I usually, I usually play at home. We live out in the country so me and my brother play basketball and have a bunch of guys come over and play or a lot of times we're, we're up at the church we'll play volleyball stuff like that. [speaker002:] I got a hold of, uh, Richard Simmons' tape, uh [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] what is it, uh, I can't even think of the name of it right offhand, with the oldies. [speaker001:] Oh, the SWEATING TO THE OLDIES? [speaker002:] Sweating with the, to the oldies, *title yeah and that's not bad. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] That's pretty upbeat, so, you know, I, every once in a while I'll put the cassette in and go with it. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Not often enough to have a routine [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Right. I'll, [speaker002:] My little Schnauzer wishes I would get out and walk with her. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] But, uh, I don't know, by the time I get home, all I want to do is just collapse or sit down at my computer and my fingers exercise more than anything now. [speaker001:] Right, that's the way I am. I just want to sit down and relax. Too tired to exercise. *slash error [speaker002:] Yes. Uh, do you ever ride a bike or anything like that? [speaker001:] I did. I started riding my bike about a couple of months ago and I'd ride about two or three miles a day, but, but it would last about a couple of weeks and it got real cold for a little while so I gave it up. [speaker002:] Here, about the, the most common exercise for people is to go to the malls and walk, uh, [speaker001:] Walk around. [speaker002:] Because they're enclosed and no matter what the weather is they can walk [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] at a pretty good clip and, and not have to worry about the weather summer or winter. [speaker001:] Right, I've noticed people doing that down here, too. I'll be in town or something and people will walk around the mall. [speaker002:] And it's safe. [speaker001:] It, it is fairly safe. [speaker002:] That's, uh, you know, inside the mall may be not safe going to the parking garage [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, certain parts of it. [speaker002:] I know a doctor once told me it, it, a friend of mine, uh, suggested swimming [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] as being the best exercise there is. [speaker001:] Right, I used to do a lot of swimming, we have, we have a swimming pool, but it's an old concrete pool. We've been having trouble with it the past few years, so we haven't got to use it much, but I love to swim and water ski and stuff like that. [speaker002:] The, uh, swimming, they say, uses more muscles than any other exercise with, and the water takes the resistance. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Right, and you don't get the soreness. I've, I've done some water exercises, but our pool is not, is not heated so it's, [speaker001:] Right, you can't do it year round. [speaker002:] Summertime only. [speaker001:] Right, that's the way ours is. [speaker002:] You don't go out when it's twenty some odd degrees, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] go out to the swimming pool. [speaker001:] Oh, no, it's too cold. [speaker002:] Hot tubs are not, uh, not too bad, but [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I could deal with a hot tub. Those are nice. [speaker002:] So, what part of Mississippi are you from? [speaker001:] I'm from Laurel. [speaker002:] Whereabouts is that? [speaker001:] That's way down towards the south. Not quite on the coast, but we're about two hours from the coast. [speaker002:] Oh, and you do have cold weather down there? [speaker001:] Yes, ma'am, it, it started about yesterday, I believe. It started raining and got real cold. [speaker002:] Ours started Thanksgiving. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] And, uh, from there just, well, today was pretty, but, uh, oh, Sunday the snow and ice came in. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And, uh, there was no exercise.

[speaker001:] all right well we'll go ahead and start with you and your opinion [speaker002:] well um in and I think what it is in this country is that we have this uh despite all the complaints we have about government we essentially have a great deal of faith that despite uh any election things really aren't going to change dramatically [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] based on any given election and there really no one gets all excited over politics um over the the I mean you think of some countries where they've changed uh um you know it'll have a a coup or some ridiculous form of government there may change uh every few years like for an example would be the governments South American governments [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but here it's it's very stable and I there's [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] nothing really to get all that excited over but maybe people should get a little excited and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and make some changes [speaker001:] yeah I think I think that has a lot to do with it like you said you know unless there's something really controversial no one ever votes [speaker002:] right right yeah people will vote presidential elections [speaker001:] just um-hum [speaker002:] um you know a local election that may have some great import but uh you know over all people don't have a whole lot to to worry about when it comes to politics [speaker001:] yeah I think I think that has a lot to do with it that and they're just lazy kind of [speaker002:] yeah they're that [speaker001:] I for instance I haven't voted since I was eighteen just like I'm twenty two now and I don't live at I live out of the state that I'm registered to vote in and it's just and like you said unless there's something really important I just don't take the time [speaker002:] yeah well that that's just it I'm I'm twenty four and I'm in the military [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I'm a um registered to vote in Pennsylvania and I only voted once it was in uh well the last presidential election [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] you know and that was just because you know it's it's too much of a hassle to get the absentee ballot [speaker001:] exactly [speaker002:] or even to to drive back there which is what I did that time I actually went and visited my folks and voted the same time but uh [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] um in my position I well in addition to that and the local political scene I don't know enough about it anymore to even feel that my vote means anything [speaker001:] right and for me I'm just afraid [speaker002:] because I don't know the the candidates um [speaker001:] right exactly I'm afraid I'd vote for somebody who I didn't even you know agree with [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] just because I wanna vote or whatever [speaker002:] right right but I I think um that's all things that that it's all my own laziness though [speaker001:] yeah oh I agree that's probably same thing [speaker002:] because first of all I should take the time to find out about the candidates I probably should talk to my mom and dad and who do live there and get the feeling for what uh for what they are you know have been doing and uh or for what what they feel the candidates are doing and uh um maybe do a little looking into it myself it's not like any of this is any big secret [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but it's just a question of taking the time and it's they're [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] higher priorities right [speaker001:] right you know I think it's really interesting too like with this the latest election in Louisiana where there was the guy who had been part of the Ku Klux Klan how much yeah how much interest that brought and how many people [speaker002:] right David Duke yeah yeah that was interesting there was quite a few people in this area that had contributed to his campaign [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I'm in upstate New York and this is kind of a redneck area what the local newspapers um printed they somehow got a list of all of Duke's contributors [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] and they printed a list in the newspaper of everybody that gave money to that campaign [speaker001:] oh my [speaker002:] you wanna talk about getting getting even with them you know that was I thought that was beautiful that's justice [speaker001:] right yeah well I think it's interesting how it takes something like that though [speaker002:] what's that [speaker001:] I think it's interesting how it takes something like that to get people on edge about ah politics [speaker002:] yeah yeah oh yeah yeah you know people you think about having somebody uh somebody like that in power and the you know and that shocks them all but then um flip side of that is the same people go around um harboring their own racist racist practices and race race you know you ask those same people um how they treat [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] people and all that and you probably would not get a very favorable answer out of them [speaker001:] right yeah I agree [speaker002:] but the idea the merit the thought of somebody who publicly was a member of the Ku Klux Klan is pretty repulsive being in a position of power like that [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] well is there anything you think we can do to make it better or to uh [speaker002:] what we can do to make it better right that that's hard because um I thought in the last or not not this last year's election but the one a year ago that they were gonna that there was gonna be some serious turn around of the incumbents and all that the people are finally fed up [speaker001:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] okay so we're going to talk about uh what kind of clothes we wear while we work [speaker002:] okay I'm ready uh-huh [speaker001:] do you work for TI [speaker002:] no I work at home [speaker001:] oh you do well you're like me then I stay home also [speaker002:] do you have children [speaker001:] yes I have two a seven year old and three and a half year old [speaker002:] oh that's good [speaker001:] how about you [speaker002:] I have four girls they're nine and five and three and a newborn [speaker001:] oh oh my you are busy [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] and they're all girls I have two girls so all girls around here yes uh really sweet [speaker002:] girls are nice aren't they anyway as far as clothing goes um my wardrobe changes all the time depending on my size we go from regular kind of spring clothes [speaker001:] that's how I am too um-hum [speaker002:] regular kind of fall clothes pregnant clothes [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] clothes that are in between where you're not down to regular size yet [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] or you're on your way up from regular size and they're all in boxes or bags and they all rotate all the time [speaker001:] oh that's funny yeah [speaker002:] kind of the same stuff all the time though I don't uh get a whole lot new right now [speaker001:] yeah yeah I know that's kind of how I am I said who ever I talk to is going to be bored because when it's summer time I'm wearing shorts and when it's cold I'm wearing sweat pants and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] most of unless I'm going to something special that my daughter's doing or something like that I [speaker002:] yeah I I like jeans a lot [speaker001:] well that's that's good I used to wear jeans all the time until after I had kids and now nothing seems to be comfortable because I bulge in all the wrong places so [speaker002:] oh and it's it's frustrating I just I find I have to get the right kinds though or it's not comfortable [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] they it it works best if they have pleats in the front [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] and uh they have to my waist is kind of small compared to the hips so it has to be not the straight up and down Levi's kind [speaker001:] yeah yeah I know what you mean well [speaker002:] but um but I when I was I was pregnant through the summer this time and I wore dresses all the time because it was so much cooler and so much more comfortable not to have something binding on your waist [speaker001:] oh uh-huh right uh-huh that's right [speaker002:] but um [speaker001:] one of my daughters was born in June and I remember I wore sundresses and you know just those real cool dresses almost the entire time [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and I had one that was born in December so um it was a little bit because however it was a real warm winter so even even into like November and December I was still wearing the short sleeve dresses course I'm always hot when I'm pregnant too so I didn't really need warm clothes [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah [speaker001:] but I really have been spoiled by sweat pants and these new uh units outfits you know that are just knit [speaker002:] oh I haven't tried those [speaker001:] oh they're so comfortable it's it's just um you know a light weight kind of like a sweat suit but made out of that real light polyester stuff and [speaker002:] huh yeah yeah [speaker001:] it's just great because you can put you know you can decorate them up or dress them up if you want or you can just wear them with you know tennis shoes if you want so they're really nice and I've enjoyed wearing those [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I [speaker002:] I don't know if they expected us to talk about blazers and such here but I sure never wear them [speaker001:] yeah well I don't either if we if we had professional jobs where we go into an office and have to wear a jacket or something that would make a big difference [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I worked part time when my oldest was a baby [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and um I had to wear a dress every day and [speaker002:] I'm watching Janice uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh it was a little bit hard to uh wind down I would I would have to drive six thirty five home and I would be burning up like in the summer time by the time I got home I was like oh I got to get out of these clothes [speaker002:] oh I I remember that from when I was I worked way before I was married even but uh offices they keep them so cold in the summer that you can't wear regular summer clothes and be comfortable [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh right right [speaker002:] you've got to have something to add to it or something I don't know if you can [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah and then when you drive home like especially if you're in a lot of traffic which you are in Dallas uh-huh because I always hated to run my air conditioner just sitting still all the time I was afraid I'd make the car overheat [speaker002:] you burn up yeah yeah it's hard on the car [speaker001:] yeah so I would roll my windows down it was still a hundred degrees and I would just be sweltering hot by the time I picked my daughter up and [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] um I had a friend who used to take shorts to work and after work she'd go in the bathroom and change her clothes and I thought that's probably a good idea [speaker002:] oh that's funny yeah [speaker001:] because you really it [speaker002:] at least something cooler [speaker001:] yeah because you can ruin your good clothes getting so hot in them if you [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] especially if it's something that has to be dry cleaned which I don't have any of [speaker002:] yeah I don't have to worry a whole lot about that [speaker001:] no when you have children you don't um even when I go to church I have to have something I can just throw in the washer when I'm through [speaker002:] that's right something that it doesn't matter if it gets spit up on too [speaker001:] that's right or if you get it dirty or whatever I know it [speaker002:] I've always been a creature of comfort too if it's not comfortable forget it [speaker001:] me too I know that's how I am too [speaker002:] wool was never comfortable to me [speaker001:] right me neither I have

[speaker001:] Well, do you think, uh, I mean I wonder, the assumption is that it is a problem, uh, and I've never actually had too many people explain to me why it's a problem, though I have the same instinctual feeling that it's a problem and, uh, but it's not clear to me that it is. [speaker002:] Uh, bo-, [speaker001:] Um, it's a problem if those voting don't represent the population demographically, or in terms of their opinions. But if those who don't vote, if you made them vote and, it those who don't vote would have voted exactly the same way, you know, in other words if forty percent had voted for that person and sixty percent for the other, just like everyone who did vote, it's not clear to me that it is really a problem, um. [speaker002:] Um, that's, that's interesting, because I had thought, I ha-, feel that it's a problem also, but, I see your point on that. [speaker001:] I mean, I, I assume that those who don't vote, I mean if you look at the break down of those who don't vote, they tend to be, you know, poor blacks, for example, vote very little, and things like that and I assume that they would vote differently if they were voting, than your average voter. But I don't know if that's the case. [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] In fact I've heard of studies that suggest that that isn't. [speaker002:] Apparently they don't think it's a problem [LAUGHTER] [breathing]. [speaker001:] Uh, I guess not, I'm, I, I vote religiously, I really do. Um, I guess, I guess I'm a fan of democracy and, uh, [throat clearing] wish I could vote on more things frankly. [speaker002:] That's right, um, [speaker001:] But it's funny because here in California things are getting, uh, increasingly democratically oriented, in, in the sense of people being able to vote for things. I mean, we have these initiatives, state initiatives now. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] The first really popular, you know wide spread one was, uh, Proposition Thirteen which was a, uh, tax revolt, [speaker002:] Right, I r-, [speaker001:] against property taxes. Uh, and, you know, now we're, and that was whatever, ten years ago and now we're up to Proposition a Hundred and fifty or something like that. I mean, we've just, there were apparently voters who just threw up their hands after the last voters pamphlet because they were asked, being asked to make decisions on topics that would have three different competing proposals and you had to vote for, you know, yes or no on each of them and no one could make heads or tails out of some of them and it was incredibly complicated and difficult. And a lot of people revolted against that, they said we don't want to have to decide all these things, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] you know, that's, that's, that's why we hire people who, uh, you know, to, to make these decisions for us. [speaker002:] I, I kind of feel the opposite, though. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I wish we were given an opportunity to vote on more things. [speaker001:] I do t-, [speaker002:] I think our elected officials say they are speaking for us but they're not speaking for me. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Yeah, I wouldn't mind having, oh, more votes than I get to have, frankly [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] Anyone who doesn't vote, it's fine with me as long as I can have their vote. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. *slash error [speaker001:] That would make me happy though. Maybe not in a, in a deep philosophical sense, but in a selfish sense, it probably would. I don't know, it's interesting, uh, some countries voting is obligatory. [speaker002:] Well, *slash error [speaker001:] Uh, it is in Australia, for example. [speaker002:] Is that true? [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] I didn't know that, I was think-, that is one solution to it. [speaker001:] I don't know how I feel about that. [speaker002:] But I don't, that's not really democratic. Not what I'd consider truly democratic. [speaker001:] Well Australia considers itself every bit as much a democracy as the United States. [speaker002:] As, uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it's not for me to say that they're not. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Um, they, they feel, I mean here you have the right to vote and they simply define it as a duty there. You know, we have, just as we have a r-, a duty to pay taxes, you know, is that democratic? I mean, we don't have the right to pay taxes in this country, we have the duty to pay taxes. [speaker002:] It's a duty, right. [speaker001:] And in that country it's a duty to pay taxes and it's a duty to vote on how those taxes are spent. And it's not clear to me that, that's so much less democratic. Um. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I don't know, but part of me rebels against that, [speaker002:] I, it's, that's, [speaker001:] but then I'm an American. [speaker002:] it's complex question when you start thinking about it, isn't it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. And some people don't vote, I mean there is like three or four percent of Australians don't vote and I think they're el-, eligible for a fine. I don't know if they actually are fined or, or what happens, but you're eligible for some sort of fine if you don't vote. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. That's interesting. I have people here that I know that have never registered to vote. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I think, [pause] I think they feel they can criticize if they don't [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, I was sort of, s-, [speaker002:] I told them if they don't vote they don't have the right to criticize. [speaker001:] Well I, that's how I feel. I mean, if yo-, if you vote and your guy looses well you leas-, you least tried and you can say something but if you don't vote, I sort of feel like, part of me, and it's kind of a nasty part of me feels like, well if you didn't vote, you get what's coming to you, you know. [speaker002:] That's right, I feel th-, [speaker001:] And certainly that's true in the overall, I mean no one individual that's true for but for the population as a whole, I sort of feel that way. When they especially when someone, they, [throat clearing], they don't vote for someone because they don't like any of them and then the person gets in and they don't like him and he turns out to have been worse than her that they might have voted for, or something like that. *listen: two utts? And, you know, I say well, you know, voting for the lesser of two evils is still important. [speaker002:] I think it is too. Sometimes it is a difficult choice. You don't feel as though you have much of a choice, but [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, I mean, you, I mean, it's, it's funny because technically you do. I mean you have the right to do a write in candidate. But of course that's, that's not really a vote. Um. [speaker002:] It doesn't really gain anything. [speaker001:] Yes, it rea-, really doesn't, and so it's, it's a complicated situation, but I would like to see, I don't know, I, I, I'm, I'm thinking of actually moving to Australia and, [speaker002:] Is that goin-, [speaker001:] and perha-, perhaps I'll call you back and let you know what, how the Australian system works. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I mean, not because of the vo-, I mean I'm not thinking of moving there because of the voting, [speaker002:] Not be-, [speaker001:] but just because of a job opportunity. [speaker002:] Oh, I see. [speaker001:] And, uh, I, [speaker002:] I'm inte-, are you a T I employee, I'm interested. [speaker001:] No, I'm not. [speaker002:] Not, okay, I just wondered. [speaker001:] And, uh, so I'm, I'm really quite, quite curious, how that would work, to have both, I mean, you know, and I believe in the, in a certain, uh, Soviet bloc countries you are, are obliged to vote too. In fact, it was even pretty much spelled out who you did vote for, up until fairly recently and, that's what I think of when I think of you're obliged to vote. But when you actually, really are given as much choice as you are in this country, with its two party system, um, I don't know, I kind of, part of me is wary and part of me likes the idea of having it be more of a duty, um. [speaker002:] Well, uh, maybe they should, perhaps that would be a solution if they were required to vote at least for their first three or four years after they become of voting age. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] Required to register and vote for four years, and perhaps they would be indoctrinated that this is their duty. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. Well that's a thought, or certain privileges come from voting which aren't that important but are nice to have, I don't know. The right to write your, [speaker002:] Maybe it should go with a driver's license [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's, see that's an example of a right, not a, not a, actually that's considered a privilege, not a right. [speaker002:] That is a privilege, right, tha-, [speaker001:] Yeah, but technically people, most people, technically it's a privilege, but most people think of it as a right. I mean, in other words if the government denies you driving, denies you a driver's license, people get very upset. But actually it's a privilege, [speaker002:] It is. [speaker001:] which is allowed to be revoked. [speaker002:] That's correct. [speaker001:] And, fortunately voting isn't that. [speaker002:] Maybe it should, maybe it should be. [speaker001:] Except, well except if you're a felon, if you're a felon it is taken away from you. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I mean, they will take away your right to vote, under certain circumstances. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] Um, so, gosh, so we don't have a great solution yet do we [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Don't have a great I, [LAUGHTER] I think I checked that as a question I'd be willing to discuss too [LAUGHTER]. Oh. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But I, I also, I also, I don't know if you've, uh, read any of the, um, oh, what do they call those. The, uh, the early republican, uh, republic documents, uh, when they were arguing through constitutional law written by Hamilton and all those people. [speaker002:] No, no, I haven't. [speaker001:] Um, oh, Hamilt-, I think it was Hamilton who wrote number ten or something, where he was arguing for a republican, not in the sense of the Republican party now, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] versus a democratic, uh, government and, arguing successfully, why, the United States should be a republic, not a democracy. Which indeed it really is, a republic, not a democracy. Where he defines dep-, democracy as everyone votes for the issues and republic is people who vote for someone who then in turn votes for the issues. In other words, you vote for representatives. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And the whole idea was, um, presumably those who get voted in would be wiser than the average person, and, and, a specialist and able to make more informed decisions and can protect against the tyranny of democracy, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. *slash error [speaker001:] Because just as you can have a tyranny of a single, um, you know, bad ruler or something, you can have a tyranny of the majority. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. *slash error [speaker001:] And, uh, he makes a very, uh, passionate, good argument for why you don't want some things decided by democratic process, because anytime you have a majority, um, they can change the law in a democ-, a fully democratic process and there are cases when you don't want that to be the case. Um, [throat clearing] oh, you know, a candi-, if there's some minority that people don't like because of, you know, racial hatred or something like that, the majority can just simply vote again-, vote against them. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And cases like that, he argues, need to be constrained, and, and actually I agree, except that I don't trust the people who are appointed to vote [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Sometimes I think we have that right now, with Congress. [speaker001:] Yeah, well, I, I mean, I feel that, I feel that wa-, [speaker002:] I think they're looking after their own self preservation more than they're actually looking after the good of the country. [speaker001:] Yeah, well their job is to be reelected, by in large, and, so they work on that job. And there's also an antigovernment mood in the country, you know, where government is misspending your dollars and, and they're all fools, and you know, throw, throw the bastards out, that kind of thing. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, there's a notion that somehow, if someone isn't as much as a government person, they're less corrupt and they're more likely to be good which is really strange, because, I mean, if I'm hiring a plumber, I want a real plumber, I want someone trained in,

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] okay um well actually I don't really cook um I'm I'm still a student in college and um [speaker001:] you don't okay [speaker002:] I'm fortunate to have my mom cook dinners for me so I'm not not very experienced because um [speaker001:] okay I'm I'm a single parent so I I guess I have to do a lot of cooking for my son and I [speaker002:] oh yeah hm well I have cooked like small dinners like just hamburgers and things like that and canned foods that you just heat up nothing great though so [speaker001:] yeah okay well I was born in in Louisiana my dad was Portuguese and my mother was Italian so I can I'm familiar with you know some Cajun food Italian Portuguese food [speaker002:] oh Cajun food's really good I've had that before in uh Mississippi [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] oh New Orleans that's it yeah I've I've had all kinds of different foods I travel a lot but never cooked it myself so [speaker001:] yeah you all have some pretty good cheese up there don't you [speaker002:] pardon me [speaker001:] say y'all have a lot of good cheeses up there though [speaker002:] cheeses oh yeah yeah that's right [speaker001:] yeah yeah I kind of miss that up Dallas uh I said there Portuguese and Italian blood in me and I kind of miss the cheeses because in in Dallas only get a bunch of domestic stuff you know [speaker002:] oh yeah oh I love Italian food though it's probably my favorite kind of food [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] is Italian food I don't think I've ever had Portuguese food [speaker001:] well it's mostly they eat a lot of stews and soups and stuff [speaker002:] what is that it's [speaker001:] a lot of the stew and soup they they boil you know they boil or broil a lot of their food [speaker002:] oh oh okay [speaker001:] and it it's kind of like Spanish except it's not quite as spicy as the Spanish food [speaker002:] oh yeah hm [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] I like Mexican food [speaker001:] yeah yeah the Mexicans they though Mexicans use a lot of hot peppers where the Portuguese use a lot of more garlic and stuff in the hot in the spicy food [speaker002:] a real lot oh really oh so what do you like to make for you and your son [speaker001:] yeah uh I like to cook spaghetti the kind that you cook the sauce for about three hours [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] so it's real thick and all you know [speaker002:] uh my parents make their own sauce yeah it's really good [speaker001:] yeah yeah I don't I don't think I can go the the jar stuff after after being spoiled by the real stuff [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] and my son cooks a little bit he's sixteen he usually has supper cooked when I come home during the day so [speaker002:] oh that's great that's really good I wished I would've cooked more when I was in high school [speaker001:] yeah yeah we're we're both in Boy Scouts we learned to you know cook out over open fire in the woods and all [speaker002:] oh that's great that's good to know sure it comes in handy [speaker001:] yeah yeah and you know like to cook Cajun food when I when I can get the seafood it's kind of expensive in Dallas [speaker002:] oh yeah I bet yeah [speaker001:] but sometimes we had see we went into one of the grocery stores the other day and they had uh Cajun blackened shark [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] and I tasted it and it taste pretty good and the shark was on sale so I bought some and the first time I'd eaten shark and cooked in it turned out real good [speaker002:] oh that's good hm I've never had shark and I can't see it any [speaker001:] it's first time for me and I didn't know I didn't know whether I'd ever eat it but I sampled it and it was it was all right uh [speaker002:] yeah well that's good I like seafood but I hardly ever have it I haven't eaten it in a long time [speaker001:] yeah well you you live on campus or [speaker002:] um I used to I used to live in the dorm for two years but then I came back home I went to um University of Madison Madison so when you eat eat in the dorms you know there's a big cafeteria they have the food already prepared for you [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] so I didn't I didn't get a chance to cook much and now that I'm home my mom's home so she cooks so but I I do I make some things you know once in a while you know get hungry enough you're gonna cook for yourself but I'm still I'd like to learn you know I it's I like to bake I make cakes and cookies and things [speaker001:] right oh you do [speaker002:] yeah I can do that but [speaker001:] okay I'm not very good at baking I'm you know good at cooking the main dishes [speaker002:] oh oh yeah oh well I I'd like to learn how so it's one of my goals I'm sure I will once I move out on my own [speaker001:] yeah yeah when I was living with my mother she she tried to teach me how to cook and I wasn't interested then [speaker002:] see I'm not neither [speaker001:] yeah and then once I moved out I miss her good food and I don't know how to cook it so I'm constantly looking up recipes or trying to cook what what I remember eating when I was small and wished I'd you know I'd learned from her [speaker002:] yep yeah I should start doing that it it takes a lot of time though doesn't it [speaker001:] yeah it it does course my mother never followed recipes you know she just cooked to taste I guess most good cooks do that anyway [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] they just add a little bit of that and a little bit of this and it comes out

[speaker001:] oh I guess uh this is a a topic near and dear to my heart since I am a uh am a healthy eater [speaker002:] well I I try to be as well [speaker001:] well I'm not uh I there really isn't any kind of particular food that I I don't don't like really and I like a good Italian restaurant or a good uh um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh especially like good prime rib so if it's uh nice to get out and find a good restaurant like that and I live here in uh Rome New York and there are a lot of good restaurants around here [speaker002:] um-hum oh you're in New York I was gonna there's a place if you ever make it to Dallas they have the best prime rib it's called Lawry's like Lawry's seasoning salt and it is absolutely wonderful [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh really [speaker002:] and uh we were there a few months ago and it I mean it's kind of pricey well from New York it probably doesn't matter but [speaker001:] well no I I'm in upstate New York and it's actually very inexpensive I there's a there's a place um half a mile from me here that uh [speaker002:] oh is it okay [speaker001:] has uh fantastic prime rib for uh eleven dollars a whole meal you know a potato and salad and soup and the whole whole nine yards so it [speaker002:] wow uh-huh yeah well I think the cheapest there probably starts at eighteen and it includes you know salad and rolls and oh some other stuff but it is absolutely wonderful it's the best I have ever had [speaker001:] right yeah I was going to this place up the street from me is the best I've ever had so I'll have to go there when I get there get to Dallas [speaker002:] yeah well yeah well we like uh lots of people down here like Mexican food [speaker001:] uh-huh sure [speaker002:] so um that's I I think Italian and Mexican food are probably my favorites [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but um I'm not into sushi or any of that kind of stuff [speaker001:] no no I'm not into the the don't do the the raw raw fish like that but I do like uh like a seafood bar like a raw raw bar like oysters and things like that uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that they uh I go on I'm an officer in the Air Force and travel quite a bit on business so I uh find myself down in Melbourne Florida every about once once a month once every two months or so and uh [speaker002:] oh okay uh-huh [speaker001:] go and hit the the oyster bars down there quite a bit uh I love that [speaker002:] oh yeah get fresh seafood down there [speaker001:] and um and uh Maryland's great you get the crabs it's like I can't go anywhere where I I where I don't enjoy myself so [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yeah seafood seems to be a little a little bit more expensive than than other types of food [speaker001:] that's true but [speaker002:] but it sure is good and it's supposed to be good for you [speaker001:] yeah well yeah it's really strange that that that seafood is so expensive because when you in reality uh uh I say that the oceans have the greatest resource resource of food on the planet and yet we haven't as human beings haven't figured out a way to harvest it economically so [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] we've managed to uh figure out how to get at just about everything else but uh but not uh not seafood [speaker002:] uh-huh do you like uh spicy foods or [speaker001:] what yeah yeah I like yeah I'd make a a wicked chili and uh like around here the big spicy thing is like uh buffalo wings [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and so uh people they you know you go out to get the chicken wings and those are really hot and the hotter the better and [speaker002:] yeah yeah well we uh we like spicy food down here especially uh the hot sauce Picante sauce or salsa whatever y'all call it and uh we we sure go through a lot of that [speaker001:] right sure yeah [speaker002:] but I like it hot but I don't like it real hot because then my nose starts running [speaker001:] uh-huh my my generally my my scalp will start I can feel just the top of my scalp getting hot it's like weirdest weirdest sensation almost like a tingling but uh I don't know but uh yeah well there isn't isn't too much in the way of restaurants that I don't like things that are kind of oddball like uh Thai cuisine I I never been [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] really fond of that stuff you talk about spicy that'll that'll literally blow your head off it's so hot and I can handle just about any kind of food without uh um [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] well but that that stuff is goes one notch beyond uh my tolerances so [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] although I guess on this topic I talk about the uh service in a restaurant is always nice though too that's one thing what's that yeah [speaker002:] oh yeah and and the price and the price make you wanna come back [speaker001:] well I find that lately that so many people are working you know they're working waitressing jobs or waiter

[speaker001:] do you use credit cards a good bit [speaker002:] I do and I wish I didn't before I got married uh about the only credit cards I used were gas cards because I didn't like carrying [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] you know the cash with me all the time but I just never wanted to get into the hang-up of using credit cards and having all those bills hanging over my head [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] in fact I remember getting my first MasterCard and the only reason I got it was you know there was a while years ago when you couldn't cash a check without like a MasterCard or Visa and so that's why I went ahead an got one [speaker001:] okay absolutely right um-hum [speaker002:] it was a mistake [speaker001:] yeah well actually I I have a whole wallet full of credit cards I don't use them very often um [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh I may use I try to use at least one gasoline credit card a week and try to use a different one so that you know I have keep those active [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I have a half a dozen department store credit cards and I'm I'll use those if I need to run in and buy a dozen pair hose right quick or something like that just enough to keep them active my biggies are the Visa MasterCard and Discover [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and for the most part I had used those for like uh charging airline tickets where I can pay for those you know you could make make the transaction over the telephone or I fly Southwest a good little bit which means I can just run that card through the machine [speaker002:] yeah that's right [speaker001:] uh and saves a lot time and that's what I was using it for however we had a had a a very pressing financial family crisis which said you have no alternative you must have the money to do this with and you do not have any other options so I charged all three of those cards up and right now I am paying paying and praying [speaker002:] um-hum I know how that goes and that's exactly what we've I mean I have to say I have been thankful for them because there were times when [speaker001:] um but uh um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] it was just like that when we had to have the money we had no way around it and the only way to do it is go get you know an advance on a card and so like you were paying for it but it's one of those I'm glad it was there [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum well I never did right I never did use it for an advance most of my charges were uh medications [speaker002:] oh I see [speaker001:] didn't have cash for the medications or it was uh the doctor would accept MasterCard or Visa [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and uh a lot of times you can get by using those for uh uh different labs will use those charge accounts for [speaker002:] well do you find now though that even some doctors won't I've gone some doctors that say you know I was so used to doctors or medical care places taking credit cards and so many of them don't anymore [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] well I have not I like I said that was just one period in my life where that was critical [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't generally charge I say well I will need a checkup in six months and I kind of set that aside and just pay for it I'm reimbursed on insurance anyway and I can handle you know paying for it and waiting two or three weeks [speaker002:] yeah right right [speaker001:] getting into a credit card fiasco is easy [speaker002:] oh it is [speaker001:] it is easy and it's very difficult to get out I just cringe every month when I see those interest charges [speaker002:] I know [speaker001:] I say wow I I ought to go to the credit union and borrow the money and pay this off big deal I'm saving two percent [speaker002:] right but you know the interest even though it bothered me it didn't used to bother me so much because of course you could list it on a schedule A and you got all your interest you know towards your tax deductions and now they've messed that up to where it really is a financial burden to have to pay it and but it but it is easy to get into a credit card problem and I [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum right [speaker002:] I think about young people that think you know there's kind of that feeling of hey it's so neat I have my first credit card and and they just don't understand that you still have to be able to make the payments you know [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah and it's not just paying back what you've charged it's paying that and half again uh you send in uh uh fifty dollars you're going to pay twenty twenty five in interest charges [speaker002:] that's right that's right that's right [speaker001:] you only get half of that paid for the principal so I'm looking at three or four years before my balances are cleared on those charge accounts now as the monthly payment [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh I mean as the monthly payment amount goes down that will free up more cash where I can continue to make the larger payments uh as long as I don't have a major disaster where I have to use it again I can I can do that [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] meantime though I'm not building any reserves anything that I could be put aside into savings is going for interest on those cards [speaker002:] no and that's frightening to me that's right that's frightening too uh I I just I my husband is in business for himself I work for TI but he doesn't and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] we're uh I I've kind of got my fingers crossed crossed I've learned when you're in business for yourself that that you you don't count on something until it's happened you know but he's got some [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know it's those once in a lifetime cases and after ten years he's got two of them [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and they should pay through next month and and we're both just looking at each other every night going man that'll pay off like both of our MasterCards you know and you know just in one lump because that's the only way you can do it is to have a big chunk of money or it's like you say you pay forever [speaker001:] oh right right um-hum um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and so I'm really looking forward to that [speaker001:] well you either need a big chunk of money or you need a large reserve so that if you do charge on that account you can make a single lump sum payment now those are very handy if you have the reserves and you can make lump sum payments sharp good no problem [speaker002:] that's right right sure yeah I agree that's right [speaker001:] because you're living on the other guy's money for a while but I can promise you that those credit card companies are going to ride high on my money and it just irks me I say my gosh I had to work three hours just to pay the interest on this and I've got three cards I've lost a whole day of my life [speaker002:] I know and I know you're like what am I working for today [speaker001:] to interest yeah yeah and that just blows my mind I my house is paid for my car is paid for I've got some home improvements but even the payment on that doesn't equal the payment on one of those credit cards [speaker002:] it's incredible boy I wish I could say that my house and well my car is paid for now it was wrecked three weeks ago but [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but you see again the credit cards came in handy I had to have the money to pay rental car pay this pay that till the insurance company pays back and uh [speaker001:] um-hum that's right I think that is a good healthy safe use of credit cards [speaker002:] yeah because you know that's coming back to pay it off [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum uh I went to a seminar they said don't ever use your credit card for consumable items you only use credit cards for investments [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I say for crying out loud if I had the money to invest you know if I could do some investing you'd have to invest at better than twenty percent earnings in order to pay for the payments on the credit card [speaker002:] it sure that's right [speaker001:] that doesn't make a bit of sense to me I thought God dang where is his pencil [speaker002:] that's right well the smart half was don't pay it for consumables don't you know if you can't afford to go to a restaurant and eat out and pay cash don't put it on a credit card you know and and so that that is the smart half [speaker001:] that's right um-hum [speaker002:] but uh and I can remember before we had kids we did that a lot but it was no biggie [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know because we could pay it off while after kids and you're paying child care and other things all of a sudden it's not so easy to pay off so we cut that out real quick [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and uh but I I do like having them there there is a bit of security in having the credit cards and knowing that in times of crisis they are there to use [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but you have to have a very good sense of saving and or common sense not not to get yourself in trouble [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum you also have to have that willingness to commit to that because you're committing a good portion of your life and income when you do it [speaker002:] um-hum

[speaker001:] so what do you think about a year or two of public service [speaker002:] well I know it's hard for young people to think about giving up their years you know free their carefree years but people that I have known that have done that I like from other countries especially Germany and Finland [speaker001:] uh-huh yes yeah [speaker002:] they are just they have such a better more mature outlook on life and I think they're better people because of it they're much more responsible I know um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the church that I go to um the young men give two years of their life when they turn nineteen you know they're encouraged to do that missionary work and I believe I really believe that the people that do that [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] are better people and uh make our society better [speaker001:] you know I I really agree with you um I uh though I've never done that myself I I'm was a basically an education major when I graduated from college and I accepted a job that at the time was just slightly above the poverty level to teach to um very rural children in a very low income district and I spent a year teaching there and I think it was probably one of my largest eye-opening experiences because I come from nice [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] middle class white suburban home and I did it um [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] for one reason I wanted I was working on a masters degree so I wanted to stay close to where I was working on a masters degree but also because I just thought that it would be interesting to live someplace else so totally different than my own upbringing and I it changed [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it probably changed my political views it changed my understanding of the world around me [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and I think um in fact if if I had to do it all again I you know I I after that you know you never think of it because I guess because I paid for all of my college education myself I never thought about doing that because I had all these college loans I'd started paying back [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] um because so that was that was one reason why I never considered it but now that I'm further along and I'm still paying these college loans I I think realistically you know you can have your college loans delayed now because I had them delayed because I'm back in graduate school at thirty years old [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um I've had them delayed because I'm back in graduate school and on that form it says if your joining the Peace Corps you can have them delayed [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] uh and I thought that was you know very interesting and I I would have thought of that earlier I probably would have done you know just like is that is this is that the Mormon church [speaker002:] yes yes but if [speaker001:] that does that um-hum because one of my neighbors uh did that in Pittsburgh from Pittsburgh and I thought you know that really now that I'm thirty years old I think that one or two years out of my life would've probably like you said [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] to be able to travel someplace else whether it be the United States or outside the country I think would've been a very good um experience for me [speaker002:] uh-huh well I think so it puts you out on your own and and in a time after high school um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] there's kind of a selfishness I mean teenagers in our country are kind of kind of a year that parents don't look forward to and and things like that and I think that it would help people to become less self-centered and to be more responsible when you're out on your own trying to um [speaker001:] um-hum yes um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] thinking less of your own needs but of other people [speaker001:] yeah and I think you know we have such a need now you know I taught you know I I think I was paid uh about nine thousand dollars to teach for the year and I worked in a very rural school district and I I one of the things I taught was a computer class and these kids [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] um you know every girl I taught except for one was pregnant many of the boys in the room had children and they were they were high school juniors [speaker002:] oh no um-hum [speaker001:] and I and I just there you know they came from poverty they were going to continue in poverty and it was it was the school district couldn't hire many people it was very difficult for them to hire and I think you know in the sense that aspect of public service for education in some of the inner cities [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] for um just social workers in some of the inner cities and some of the rural areas where they just need advice on medical um things I think it's a really good idea and even if it is overseas see I never I I tell you sometimes I worry about things overseas because we have such problems right here in our own country [speaker002:] um-hum yes [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it would really um and I don't the people that I've known like from Germany and Finland that have done that are they do military service which you know I don't exactly recommend but still [speaker001:] yeah um-hum yeah [speaker002:] they have benefited from it and um you know although I wouldn't want [speaker001:] right um-hum [speaker002:] military military to make people to go off to the military voluntarily but it's it has helped them and they are just a lot more mature than the average student and [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum yeah I think it would also help them if they then went on to college I know that my first couple of years of college were um uh probably too carefree at the beginning and then at the end I had to be too serious [speaker002:] um-hum well that's right a lot of people they flunk out or they get they just [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] are so excited to be away from home they just spend all there time partying and they do a lot of things to themselves and that we don't really want our young people to be doing and [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's true um-hum that's right I yeah I think I think this was this was a very interesting topic [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] uh because it's something that you know we don't talk about in this country probably enough [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh you know [speaker002:] because because we're so we love our freedom and our freedom of choice [speaker001:] um-hum yep that's true [speaker002:] and um having people but you know our like in our church it it is you're free to do that or not you're encouraged to do it because um you know it it helps you and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] of course we think it's helping other people and so [speaker001:] oh I think it is I really think I think um people you should I you know the kids today I teach I spend a lot of my time teaching college students [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and um I find great disgust in them in their in their um their self-centeredness [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and their inability to understand um multicultural or multiracial situations and I really you know they don't understand uh how other people live um they don't understand [speaker002:] um-hum and they're preoccupied with drinking [speaker001:] um-hum yep I think that's uh just just having a good time [speaker002:] uh-huh and [speaker001:] I uh a friend of mine is a psychologist and he always refers to it as uh short-term pleasure oriented I guess he's a technical aspect he likes to apply to it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know today's young people are short-term pleasure oriented and everything has to be an immediate reward and it has to be fun [speaker002:] that's true that's really true [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] yes well I I don't know how that would ever happen here but at least um [speaker001:] well they say I think I um have read recently that uh the Bush Administration has increased the uh funding for the Peace Corps [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] uh-huh because I guess because of the changes in Eastern Europe uh they've increased funding for the Peace Corps some of the I guess it's some of the peace dividend in the sense you known when they're decreasing some of the military spending some of that money has gone into the Peace Corps and some of the other overseas programs uh [speaker002:] um-hum hm well I have seen a big change I think in high school kids that my relatives and friends that um I know when I was in high school I had an idea of what I really wanted to do with [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] what my what I was going to study and at least I had some interest in a lot of the youth that I come in contact with are they say oh I want to be a doctor I want to be a lawyer why because they make a lot of money [speaker001:] yes yeah that's true [speaker002:] and they don't have a goal they don't have a goal they don't have an interest in their own field of study they're just looking what's going to pay the biggest cash [speaker001:] um-hum yeah that's very true you know how many is it they say we have so many lawyers in this country and I guess I I live near Washington being in in Baltimore it's something like one in four people in the Washington [speaker002:] um-hum area yes [speaker001:] area are lawyers and and I I just sort of think that's ridiculous yeah with [speaker002:] yes there's too many people [speaker001:] you know with the great needs that we need today in science and biology and uh you know the the problems we have with AIDS and cancer and and that how come everybody is a lawyer you know you know [speaker002:] um-hum that's right and not enough people want to do that to for [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh because of a service that they could provide you know if you want to be a lawyer because you know that you can provide a service that people need because you have to have lawyers in this country um but if you're just doing it because you think that's the best way to be rich [speaker001:] right um-hum um-hum yeah you saw statistics that lawyers and doctors make the most money in the long run yeah that's true [speaker002:] um-hum that's kind of sad well anyway well I guess I better go [speaker001:] that's interesting um-hum okay hey thanks so much for the conversation [speaker002:] well good luck to you I enjoyed it [speaker001:] well thank you very much bye-bye [speaker002:] thanks bye-bye

[speaker002:] I'm doing fine [speaker001:] um my name's yeah I'm from uh New York where you from [speaker002:] what's what was your name [speaker001:] uh Brad LeMeaux [speaker002:] oh I'm Nola and I'm in Plano Texas [speaker001:] Nola in Texas I I talked to someone from Texas yesterday where in Texas you say [speaker002:] it's Plano it's just north of Dallas [speaker001:] okay you have pets [speaker002:] uh oh pets yes [speaker001:] do you have pets yeah that's what the topic's supposed to be [speaker002:] yeah I didn't quite understand what you said I'm sorry [speaker001:] I got my New York accent [speaker002:] we don't have uh I grew up in New Jersey but it's been a long time since I lived there did you already push the one okay um yeah we have fish that's it [speaker001:] yes that's pretty easy [speaker002:] yeah it's uh uh uh neither my husband or I really wanted to take care of cats or dogs or anything like that so and the girls kind of wanted something we have four uh well now we have four girls when we got the fish to start with we had two or three but um [speaker001:] what the [speaker002:] for some reason I just decided to start a fish tank and set up a ten gallon fish tank and it started with the some uh we had a real hard time getting it established tried the goldfish and they were just filthy could not keep the tank clean um eventually I took them back to the store and started started all over again and I had another couple of kinds that ate each other so that bunch didn't work either [speaker001:] what type were they like sicklets and stuff like that [speaker002:] um there were some neons and a couple of other kind I can't remember what they were [speaker001:] I don't know if the [speaker002:] but but they didn't get along very well whatever they were [speaker001:] I I had fish that were like they were called sicklets a type of family this is when I was a kid they they had um what are they called like oscars and uh I forgot the different names that they had but they would eat eat they would actually they ate when they got big enough they would eat goldfish we would buy goldfish and feed them to them [speaker002:] yeah huh well these were not supposed to be an aggressive kind like that but they were and uh they I could see them picking on each other [speaker001:] yeah I I agree with that I I I um I don't really wanna deal with any other pets except for stuff like fish I I thought about I've often thought about getting a fish tank but even that's too much work for me [speaker002:] yeah yeah anyway I finally got rid of those those all killed each other off and I cleaned the tank up again and got it all fixed again and so established and I got about half a dozen guppies from a friend and they just bred and bred and bred and they're uh there must've been a hundred guppies in that tank and I had I took I must've taken thirty or forty of them at a time back to the store two or three different times because there were so many of them I couldn't keep them down but [speaker001:] and what did they do they they just took them back [speaker002:] they took them back and gave me a credit of about a dollar each time [speaker001:] yeah really yeah that's [speaker002:] so yeah helped to buy fish food and filters [speaker001:] yeah that's what my friend used to do with his other fish he used to sell them back to the store they'd buy them but uh that's cool that's [speaker002:] uh-huh but but but uh then I I I I went for a while where um while I was pregnant with our new little baby we uh I I just kept forgetting to clean the fish tank and it was really dirty for a long time but those fish still lived in there and um finally I cleaned the tank out and most of them had disappeared um and I don't think I've got any males in there anymore so they're not multiplying anymore [speaker001:] that's easier [speaker002:] yeah yeah I need to get a new um algae eater though [speaker001:] do you do you still you still have guppies [speaker002:] yep there's still there's about a dozen guppies in there right now [speaker001:] so you you stayed with the guppies great great yeah the fish are fun [speaker002:] so but that's the only thing we've got yes you may I know sorry and and so you have fish or do you have [speaker001:] no I I used to have fish when I was a kid [speaker002:] but you don't have anything right now [speaker001:] but I don't have anything now I I guess when I moved out of my parent's house I uh gave my fish to my friends and fish tank I think I gave to someone else um but I thought a few years ago go and get one but I've moved around so much recently [speaker002:] yeah it's kind of a problem moving them [speaker001:] yeah they're not that easy but although it like living in New York City there's definitely no other pet that you would want I mean people some people a lot of people have cats some people have dogs I mean I've I've even seen big big dogs in small apartments and I don't really see that [speaker002:] you feel sorry for them [speaker001:] yeah someday if I move out into the country I like it like a you know like a Labrador or something like that some you know bigger dog that could kind of run around outside and stuff [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but yeah you see these big dog I mean I see this guy in my building with some I think it's like a golden retriever or something like that and he he's good though he takes him out all the time or her out all the time [speaker002:] uh-huh you'd have to do it an awful lot though [speaker001:] yeah this guy he seems like he runs and stuff and runs with the dog so he probably gets in enough exercise [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but you know lot

[speaker001:] do you ever think that there's a crime that's just so heinous and so bad that the person who commits this crime just doesn't deserve to live anymore [speaker002:] that's a good question uh there would be a point there was a point where I would have said know that no one would deserve to die for for a crime that he committed but uh since I've become a parent and since I've seen uh things like Jeffrey Dahlmer I really have to question that I really uh I I can't conceive of someone being that brutal to that many other people [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh try and figure out what would be a suitable punishment uh [speaker001:] of the statements made by people against the the death penalty um I I like the statement made by uh Cuomo Cuomo I I believe is um he's he's governor of New York but uh he's against the death penalty but um he said that he would he would want to to seriously hurt or if not kill someone if if they did something to his wife and that's but but even even in that circumstance in that uh uh situation he would be he would hope that there would be people around him who would uh keep him from doing the doing those things [speaker002:] oh it's a uh it's a question of your your gut reactions to something like that versus an intelligent reason response [speaker001:] right exactly [speaker002:] uh and and that was the thing that uh killed Dukakis back uh four years ago when someone asked him a similar question and he he thought for a second and gave a thoughtful well reasoned reply when uh people wanted to see if he was going to go for an emotion [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] a a gut level reaction and I think that the people who are strongly in favor of the death penalty are really working from that gut level uh you know whether it be a biblical force uh you know the eye for an eye a tooth for a tooth a life for a knife life type logic or just uh uh some sort of anger at putting people putting uh murderers up in federal pens for the rest of their life uh while we foot the bill [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think people are are working at that from more of a uh a gut reaction than a a reasoned humane one [speaker001:] see I don't think a decision's ever gonna be made on death on the death penalty until we decide what our prison system is intended to do are they reformatories where we're trying to take people who can't survive or or that that aren't conforming enough to society so that that we work well together or are they is it a penal institution is it designed is it designed for punishment um the death penalty surely fits in well with uh in a penal situation where you're trying to punish um perhaps not in the manner that we do it but but it it in in theory it fits in in reformatory system in a reformatory I mean if you if you put someone to death you you obviously can't reform them [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh the the other argument is that the death penalty is a deterrent and I really don't uh agree with that I don't think anyone who would commit a uh a crime that would get them the death penalty would stop at the moment and say well I was about to kill and dismember this person but ooh if they catch me they're going to kill me so I better not do it I I just don't think that uh that it works that way [speaker001:] yeah I don't think it's done I don't think we run it as a deterrent I mean people say that but I mean if it was really a deterrent I mean I think like horse thieves in the old west you know they saw other horse thieves hanging by their necks every once in a while and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] if we really want if it was really seriously gonna be a deterrent deterrent I would think that it would be public I mean I don't think it would be this private thing because nobody ever nobody ever sees it if someone ever if you know like say some young kids or something like that that that might be inclined more towards the life of crime had to sit and watch and and see a guy burn or or you know something or shot by firing squad or something like that I would think you'd make a bigger impact on their life rather than you know telling them that there's there's protestors out here at the you know [speaker002:] well I I don't know if that would really work that way or not uh there's a lot of violence

[speaker001:] Uh, [throat clearing] a lot of companies now are, are using, uh, drug testing paraphernalia and drug testing situations to, to root out the, the either, uh, [sigh] elementary or intermediate or advanced, uh, drug users. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, I know the, the government is, uh, you know, gives drug tests an-, to all new entrants, all new appli-, applicants coming into government. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, and I quite frankly, don't see anything wrong with it. I, I'm, I guess I'm not a good civil libertarian. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And, and I, I feel as though, uh, that, uh, uh, you know, that if you, you're a drug user you have a hidden agenda that's difficult unless you really go into a deep background. Of course, we're, we're, being involved in my organization, uh, we, we have deep background checks and [speaker002:] Sure, sure. [speaker001:] and so, uh, but, but, sometimes, you know, drug use can, can escape that. And, uh, I have absolutely [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] no compunction about, uh, using any and all means to, to, uh, uh, you know, work out, figure out who has a drug program or who has a drug problem [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, and putting that guy into, into therapy to, whatever it is to, to, you know, break this, uh, activity. Of course, if he's fallen in love with drugs and there isn't anything but getting stoned or high is, is the only thing in life that seems to be meaningful, then maybe there is no hope [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] What's your, uh, feeling? [speaker002:] Uh, well I guess I, I guess I'm probably a little more to, toward the other direction. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, well I guess, mainly because, uh, it's, I, well, like there's two sides to it I guess. Uh, one is that, uh, if you're coming to work under the influence of any sort of drug, alcohol, whatever, or, you know, even if it's smoking, inhibits, you know, your ability to function, then I, I think that, that, you know, I don't have any problem at all with testing that individual, you know, on the spot. Uh, but I guess I feel more like whatever you're doing in your own private life is your own private business. Uh, and I guess part of the reason there is because of the fact that, uh, things like drug laws seem to come and go. You know, we had prohibition for awhile and then we didn't have prohibition. Uh, you know, we've had, I guess, laws against, uh, you know, various other forms of drugs for the last what sixty or seventy years, I guess. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Maybe a little longer. [speaker001:] Well I think, uh, the dr-, the laws on, uh, uh, uh, the first morphine laws were, were like ninety, or nineteen ten or nineteen five, something like that. [speaker002:] Yeah. So, ei-, eighty years or so. Yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, so I, you know, it's, it's hard to, I guess, for me to justify what so-, seems like, you know, basically a breach of the First Amen-, you know, freedom from, uh, search and seizure, you know, uh, on something that may or may not stand as a law, you know, fifty years from now or even twenty or ten, who knows. [speaker001:] Well, the thing of it is the, the, tha-, tha-, [speaker002:] I mean, prohibition certainly didn't last. [speaker001:] that, that is, uh, uh, in, in many respects, uh, uh, you know, just, just, I think, an over simplification. I, I think there, th-, th-, th-, there's so much criminal activity, uh, that people go into to, to support drug habits. [speaker002:] Well, but you got to look at prohibition though. You had the same problems there, right? [speaker001:] Yeah. You know, they, they support drug habits with, uh, with, uh, you know, with things like, uh, you know, burglary or, or prostitution or stuff like that, yeah. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Sure. Well it goes back to that, again, if you look at prohibition. I mean because it's illegal, it costs more. If it was legal, I mean, face it you can buy pharmaceutical grade cocaine for what, ten or twenty dollars an ounce. [speaker001:] I, I I [static] must admit that, [speaker002:] And clearly if you're into coke and all you want to do is, you know, snort your brains out all day long, if it was legal, you could do it real cheap and, you know, you'd be a menace to nobody but yourself as long as you stayed at home and did it. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, yeah, get, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. I, I must admit that the production costs of, of these drugs are, are zippo compared to the street market costs and, and the costs to society, yeah. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, well that's why there's, you know, people dealing it because there's money in it, you know. There's ridiculous amounts of money. [speaker001:] But I, I, I, I think that, that the, that, you know, the, being in law enforcement, you know, th-, th-, th-, they, I, I probably have a kind of a draconian, Philistine attitude toward it. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And, but, but the, uh, uh, I, I really feel as though the interdiction effort is, is, as soon as you, you get rid of one goon that's, that's, that's involved in drugs and tha-, [speaker002:] Oh yeah, interdiction's hopeless. I mean [speaker001:] Yeah, and then another, another one will jump up. [speaker002:] there's no way you're ever going to win that. [speaker001:] But we, we see, [speaker002:] The tighter you squeeze, the more the price goes up, the more incentive there is. I mean that's a losing fight. [speaker001:] Yeah. A-, a-, as soon as we wind up, uh, uh, you know, for, well if we can just destroy the market by destroying the demand but, but people [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] want to, get, get stoned and I, I don't see that, [speaker002:] Well, yeah. It goes back to, you know, what right, what can society impose on people. I mean, can you force somebody to be a good productive citizen? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I don't think you can. I mean, you know, I'm, you know, was raised with being a very strong Bible work ethic so, you know, I'm one of these, you know, ten, twelve, fifteen, twenty hour a day type people. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, you know, yeah, I can really relate to yeah, everybody ought to do their own share, you know. I don't have any, you know, love lost for people who are on the public dole just because they're too lazy to get a job or that kind of stuff. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, you know,

[speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Hi. Do you have lots of credit cards [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] Yeah, we, well, we have quite a few but we don't really use them a lot. We have, well, we like a lot of gasoline credit cards, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because we like to be able to stop, you know, when we're traveling and stuff wherever there's a station, but as far as like MasterCard and Visa, we don't use those too often. What about you? [speaker002:] [TV] Um, I used to have a ton of gas credit cards, and now I have one or two of them, but I think I've even let some of them expire. But I was living out of the country for a while so I wasn't using them too much [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I don't drive that much. But I have, you know, MasterCard and Visa as you know, I have a MasterCard and an American Express now. I got rid of the Visa because it was getting out of hand having fifteen million [LAUGHTER] cards. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, as long as, like my MasterCard is, um, free as long as you spend about, I don't know three thousand dollars a year or something like that. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And so, I tend to buy almost all major purchases on a credit card, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] when I have the choice. And, um, I used to even use it for my grocery shopping and stuff. The stores around here don't let you do it too much. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] And so I don't. But I was living in France and there you pay for everything by credit card, [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] but it's not really a credit card [baby crying]. [speaker001:] Oh, is it like an automatic debit or s-, [speaker002:] It's a, it's a debit card, yeah. [speaker001:] Oh, huh. [speaker002:] And, um, just, you know, it's sha-, many times [baby] you get out of the store faster if you pay with that than if you pay with cash. [Talks to person in background] Bye, thanks. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] Um, yeah. Because they're just so well set up with it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. We use our credit cards sometimes for a big purchase, but we always have the money set aside already to, and then we just pay it off the next, [speaker002:] [TV] Right, well, [speaker001:] month. We never pay, we don't like to pay interest on the [LAUGHTER] credit cards at all. [speaker002:] Yeah, I, I never pay finance charges on them except when I screw up which I occasionally [LAUGHTER] do. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, you know, I'll forget to pay the bill by the due date, or this last month I mailed a check to them on the twenty-second and they didn't get it until the thirtieth, and it was, [speaker001:] Gosh. [speaker002:] due the twenty-fifth. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And you know, so I thought I, and so I got hit up with a cre-, uh, finance charge on it which pissed me off [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] because, um, you know, I really did mail it in time. [speaker001:] Right. Yeah. [speaker002:] But they have no proof of that. I don't, I don't want to probably talk to them some more discuss it, but I, I never, um, usually never pay [LAUGHTER] finance charges. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, that, yeah, we, we screwed up one time like that too. We mailed it and they just never did get it, and we had to finally mail them another check. [speaker002:] I had that hassle one time and I-, that went on for months and months and months because, and they eventually found the check and deposited it [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] and months later they were still telling me that I owed them finance charges and, um, late fees and things like that. And I said, well, I mailed you a check and you eventually did deposit it. So, you know, I guess I don't know who the, the burden of proof is on. [speaker001:] Yeah, I don't either. [speaker002:] You know, kind of the, because you never d-, when I pay bills I don't make a Xerox copy of it or I don't [speaker001:] No, you figure, [speaker002:] um, [speaker001:] you'll get your check back if you have to. [speaker002:] Right. Or I don't get a, I don't mail them all a signed receipt whatever I, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, at the bank to have a proof of when I mailed it. And, I mean you can't do that, it would be ridiculous. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Really. I like to use my card if I buy something through the mail which I don't do real often or something from out of state, you know, where if something is wrong, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you don't want to end up having to pay for it. [speaker002:] Well, you can, [speaker001:] A couple times I've had to write big credit card companies and say, you know, I didn't really get this or I don't know what this is. [speaker002:] Right. Or I returned it so don't charge it, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, that's basically what happened with us is we bought a computer, and the computer, um, d-, wasn't, didn't do what these people said it would do. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] We need to just put external cards in and it wouldn't do that so he brought it back to them, and they're supposed to modify it. And so I called the credit card company and said, well, we haven't really taken possession because it's not useful for us. We can't use it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And then they said, well then don't pay it. And then a month later, I had to dispute it in writing, and I was out of the country and got back, and I took care of it as soo-, as soon as we got the computer back and it was okay. I mailed off a check but then it was too late. So now they're hitting me up there [LAUGHTER] with a finance charge. [speaker001:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But it's sort of, you know, it's, it's half our fault. [speaker001:] Yes, it's, i-, [speaker002:] And so w-, [speaker001:] w-, yeah, if you filed that letter with them then they will kind of, [speaker002:] Right, if I had filed the letter to dispute it and then paid it eventually, it would have been okay. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So I learned that for the next time. [speaker001:] [Breathing] I'm like you, too, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] about the yearly fees. I don't, uh, I don't like to pay the yearly fee for a card. Right now both the MasterCard and the Visa, we don't have to pay a yearly fee on and [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] since we don't pay the interest it doesn't really matter what the interest rate, [speaker002:] Right, yeah. [speaker001:] is too, just as long as we don't have to pay that yearly fee. Now we had American Express cards and my husband had always had that before we got married, and those got so high we finally decided for him and me both to have a card it was like ninety dollars [LAUGHTER] or something I think, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I can't remember but we decided let that one go and, [speaker002:] Well, my husband and I both have that and I don't know what we pay for his card, I pay I think, I have a gold one so, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I think it's like seventy-five dollars for me [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and I'm not quite sure what it is for him. But I had really like w-, there [lipsmack] nowadays I'm not su-, so sure that it's worth it, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but, um, in the past there, you know, there are some places that only take American Express [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and then they don't have the credit limit because I've over done the credit limit on the other card, if my husband and I both travel, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] it, you know, a couple of plain tickets and a little bit more and you're over the limit on the credit card. And, um, with the American Express they say there is no limit. There really is but they, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] tell you that, but then that was one advantage but th-, that's like, I don't, I think it's seventy-five dollars for me and forty for him [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] for a year which is a lot. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Be n-, [speaker001:] But, yeah, like you said, if you really, if you need that extra for charging tickets and stuff, [speaker002:] Yeah, well, [speaker001:] it's more worth it. [speaker002:] we should probably get another, um, Visa card, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] ye-, one, another one that's free. Because there are some, like I think A T and T has one that's free if you make two purchases a year. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] Well so, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, that wouldn't be too hard to do [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, and so that's easy enough to do, and if that's true, that's, um, it might be better off to have that as a second card just to have the credit. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And get rid of the American Express because it costs so much. [speaker001:] Have you ever run into problems of charging up more than you meant to and having to, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] be stuck with that? We've never had, [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] that problem either. [speaker002:] I, and I don't under-, I mean, I guess I do understand the mentality of people doing it but I don't understand. Yea-, because people think it doesn't really cost them anything to pay. I have had months where I was shocked at how much had come in because like I thought I would buy a big expense and think that it would take one or two months to process [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and sometimes it comes in right away and it's like, oh, well, guess, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I have to pay that too. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Because like many times I'll tr-, I'll buy some things towards the end of the month thinking, hey, I won't get that bill until the next bill, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] not this bill. And it will come in on the next one, you have to pay for it right away anyway. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But sometimes the is long. Like I've had things that I didn't get billed on for two or three months. [speaker001:] Yeah, I guess it depends on whoever you buy it from how fast they turn them in or something. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Lot of places have tho-, I guess they're called those pointed sale terminals where it's like it goes in the minute, [speaker002:] Immediately. [speaker001:] you charge it. [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but, that's what happened with us like we bought a washing machine seven months ago, [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] and that I got billed like the next day [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, gosh. [speaker002:] It didn't matter because we couldn't have paid for it by check but we prefer g-, like with the credit card you get the automatic, um, one year guarantee so if something breaks, things like that. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's nice. [speaker002:] You can, uh, return it so like the washing machine we bought it in October and, you know, if something goes wrong with it within the first year we've got an automatic guarantee on it besides the manufacturer's guarantee. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And somethings like that are, [speaker001:] Yeah, I like that feature and the insur-, like if you break it yourself even, you know, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] if you buy something that's breakable. [speaker002:] Or if it gets stolen or if you lose it or whatever it might be [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and so, so that's, you know, another advantage. And then even things like airline tickets you automatically get flight insurance which, um, you, hopefully you never use. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But like if your bagga-, but things like if your baggage gets lost, you get money for that [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] to buy new bags and things like that. [speaker001:] Oh, I didn't know that. [speaker002:] And yeah, when you rent a car, you get that and sometimes you get discounts with the cards and so...

[speaker001:] okay um have you had any experience in trying to find child care [speaker002:] um yes some what um [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] we do baby sitting here like my neighbor and I share baby sitting and um then I ran a preschool so I know you know from the other end you know trying to help people find [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum really [speaker002:] find day care so yeah [speaker001:] okay well I've done more or less the same we have five children and um [speaker002:] so what about you goodness [speaker001:] uh yeah I just haven't found it equitable to work outside the home and so I have done the day care inside my home [speaker002:] um-hum how has that worked out [speaker001:] well I've done it for seven years and uh it's pretty well driven me crazy [speaker002:] oh yeah I can imagine I've got three kids and I think I mean it's sometimes it's easier like last week my husband was gone and I had my three nieces and nephews over and it was really much more calm than than than having just my three at home [speaker001:] oh oh was it oh uh-huh that's true sometimes sometimes they do offer a just a play time for your kids [speaker002:] but yeah yeah it it depends though it depends on how well behaved the other kids are yeah we have some times its like oh if I can only get these kids [speaker001:] uh-huh hum [speaker002:] um hang hang on just a second um [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] okay just a second I'm on the phone yeah I've got three preschoolers um but uh [speaker001:] oh my goodness [speaker002:] yeah I mean I I think it's we've wanted to do I've wanted to join a baby sitting co-op [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and um that's we there're several of them around here um the one my my sister in law is in you have to be recommended in to the co-op you know that way some one knows you and you and you just aren't giving your kids out to any body and I just haven't found one that's close enough to me [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh oh [speaker002:] that I feel comfortable with at this point um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but because I mean you don't wanna you don't wanna leave with your kids with anybody and um [speaker001:] no no you don't [speaker002:] the day care centers around here I I really my kids go to preschool and I have found some really good ones um [speaker001:] oh good [speaker002:] one of them goes two days a week and the other one goes one day a week and that's a nice break and it's this is a [speaker001:] oh how fun [speaker002:] I really like the one that that they're in um they've got some really qualified teachers there they've been there for a long long time they've got um a [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] certified kindergarten teacher doing the curriculum for the older you know the fours and the three year olds and stuff so that's that is really good I really like that [speaker001:] oh good um-hum um-hum that would be fun yeah that's good for the kids and then it's fun for you too to have that little break during the week [speaker002:] yeah yeah I like that I I like that little break oh [speaker001:] oh now on that co-op um do women just trade baby sitting or [speaker002:] you you you start out with like coupons and um I don't I think I think you start out like with say twenty or thirty and and you have to um [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] when when you baby sit somebody they pay you in coupons and then um they uh then you pay the other people in coupons and I think some of them is in like thirty minute time slots or in hour time slots and you have to do it [speaker001:] oh um-hum oh gosh [speaker002:] you know per child um at least the the ones that I've seen that have worked and then they normally get together like once a month and um to you know decide you know how many do you have and and then [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] they say okay you need to you know if if you're taking in a lot of baby sitting and you're not you know doling it out also then um a lot of times they'll say okay you need to you know you need to let people sit for you um that way it'll even out you some people aren't getting you know without they don't have any more coupons left [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh what my goodness [speaker002:] and um their monthly meetings the one I went to one and they a lot of times they'll have um special people come and talk about [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh say safety or you know different things with about children and some times they'll just have get togethers you know even even with the kids like during the day and stuff [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so it gets them helps them to know one another and then you know its can be pretty informative also [speaker001:] oh well that sounds like a terrific idea my goodness I haven't heard of anything like that out here in Utah and it sounds like that'd be something good to start huh [speaker002:] yeah yeah I that's I don't know all the um I don't know all the details uh um I I I don't know if it seems like it seems like her the my sister in law's um uh they are in

[speaker001:] okay uh we keep a monthly budget I just recently stopped working so I can be home with my kids so we keep a a monthly budget and we try to stick to it [speaker002:] I know it's really it's really difficult here all because there's always something breaking car needs tires or you know something [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's that's the kind of things that throw you off [speaker002:] uh uh we we do ours more monthly than long range um we uh my husband gets paid once a month and when he gets paid I pay all the bills [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] and out of his check they take a savings and out of my check they take savings [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and retirement both out of both checks so as far as extra savings we really don't have that much extra to save um [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] his check once a month pays all the bills my check weekly buys groceries and gas and you know that kind of thing and it works out real well that way so we don't run into a lot of problems [speaker001:] oh how nice yeah yeah yeah [speaker002:] but budgets are horrible [speaker001:] well I know we do my husband gets paid twice a week and so we pay all of the little bills uh one paycheck and then like the mortgage and the electric bill you know those big bills the second [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] second pay and then um again he does have a savings that comes out you know for Christmas and stuff that kind of thing [speaker002:] yeah yeah when the car insurance is due and you call the credit union and tell them well send me some money [speaker001:] yeah that kind of thing [speaker002:] yeah it uh it would be nice if we didn't have to touch the money he has taken out and put in savings [speaker001:] but it's nice that's there you know [speaker002:] but we do yeah it I'm just glad that it is there for car insurance medical bills whatever happen but uh [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah it's nice that it's there [speaker002:] I know but I you it's just really is difficult uh neither one of us has had a raise in a couple of years [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and of course the cost of living keeps going up so my groceries are outrageous and I keep saying my check does less and less but [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah that's kind of how I felt when I was working because it seemed like we spent more we bought more things and it seemed like we spent more then a lot of it was going to uh day care and that kind of thing [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] so it just seems like with me staying home we had that big cut but we save more I don't know how and I don't know why but we it seems like we do [speaker002:] well I uh I know that since I do work I buy a lot of quicker cuts of meat and uh well the frozen things for the microwave and things like that and I'll stop by the deli and pick up [speaker001:] yeah yeah you kind of try and buy bigger quantities [speaker002:] uh chicken or whatever where if I did not work I'm sure that the grocery bill could be managed a lot a lot uh better [speaker001:] yeah that's how I felt too it just you could take a little longer and just watch a little bit more I guess [speaker002:] yeah well you [speaker001:] I guess that's kind of like the way we do we I I don't I don't know how it comes it just seems like we save a little bit more whereas where I was working [speaker002:] well I'm sure you do um I do not well I do not have to pay child care during the winter my son's old enough that he likes to come home [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] uh from school but in the summer he's still young enough that I cannot leave him by himself so in the summer I have that extra and ours is seventy dollars a week plus [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] all activities and that's usually movies one day skating on day swimming one day [speaker001:] yeah yeah and it adds up [speaker002:] yeah so you usually end up paying close to eighty dollars a week and that's a lot of money [speaker001:] yeah it is it is yeah [speaker002:] but you know if they're gonna be in day care then they need to have some activities other than just being there [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] how do you have two children [speaker001:] I have two one is four and a half and the other one's two and a half [speaker002:] well they're expensive too uh just the outgrowing of their clothes so I'm sure the budget [speaker001:] so yeah yeah that yeah I just came back to find jeans for the little one and it does add up yeah but um [speaker002:] yeah and medical bill [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] although the insurance we had was good uh when Thomas was younger a lot of the stuff had to be paid up front and then you were reimbursed so it was nice when you'd get a couple of hundred dollar check from the insurance but in the meantime you had to put out the money first [speaker001:] yeah yeah well that that's that's hard but I'm enjoying my stay home for the little time that I can [speaker002:] but yeah it is oh I would too I would I would advise anyone that could possibly do it to to [speaker001:] for the I know it's not forever and that's what's so sad but [speaker002:] well you probably wouldn't wanna do it forever I don't know though when

[speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] okay so what kind of car do you want to buy next [speaker001:] uh well I don't that's a tough decision um at the moment I probably should go for something that's that's more on the practical side of things [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] um so I don't know right now I drive a uh Volkswagen Golf GTI [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um and that's a great little car for me because it's it's fun to drive plus you can fold the backseats down and and it's got a lot of storage room [speaker002:] well do you have children are you married [speaker001:] no huh-uh I'm single [speaker002:] no well I am um divorced just just like in three days I'll be divorced and I have two little girls and um I have a Pontiac six thousand [speaker001:] oh wow um-hum [speaker002:] and um that's worn out and and if I would have had the money to go buy a car I would probably get a Toyota just because [speaker001:] yeah really [speaker002:] that's what everybody says I should get when I get a car is a Toyota they supposed to just last forever you know and um if I had my choice I'd want a minivan [speaker001:] yeah yeah um-hum [speaker002:] uh probably a Chrysler [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know Plymouth Voyager one of them other ones you know one of them that's what I would want lots of room so [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] have room for them children to you know move around and not get cramped up and fuss you know so [speaker001:] um-hum plenty of room for all the toys and everything [speaker002:] but I would probably you know want something with really good gas mileage because I'm cheap you know so [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] that would probably be my choices two choices [speaker001:] yeah yeah I always try and go for something a little more sporty just because I don't have the [speaker002:] well you're single and you know [speaker001:] yeah I don't have the family to worry about it's just me selfish me [speaker002:] yeah have them women look at you in that sports car driving oh goodness [speaker001:] well true true I'm sure it doesn't hurt but uh yeah actually um I don't know you know that brings up the the question about uh American versus imports [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know there's a lot of people saying buy American again you know but obviously uh neither of us would if we uh had the option um [speaker002:] um-hum no I wouldn't no I wouldn't [speaker001:] I guess yours is based on previous experience then maybe [speaker002:] oh yeah well we had a Honda Accord and um an older one it was a eighty one and um it just you know lasted forever it was a really good car [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and um so I like them but um I have a couple of friends that have Toyotas and and they have a hundred and fifty two hundred thousand miles and not a thing goes wrong with them [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] get great gas mileage and they still just run run run and I've got this poor pitiful Pontiac and thing breaks down every other day so you know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so I don't know [speaker001:] yeah I don't know it's it's it's interesting um you know I don't [speaker002:] so if you were married and had children what would you want to buy [speaker001:] oh jeez if I was married and had children uh do I have a budget or not [speaker002:] of course you have a budget you're married and have children it depends are you a doctor or a lawyer then you don't have a budget or you just have a bigger one [speaker001:] yeah no no not yet yeah yeah I guess everyone has a budget more or less um yeah I don't I don't know that's a good question um [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I actually really like uh Jeep Cherokees uh-huh [speaker002:] ooh I do too I like them [speaker001:] yeah they're the problem is they're pretty expensive um [speaker002:] they are well all just about everything is expensive now I mean you know the minivans are way on up there you know they're real expensive and [speaker001:] true um-hum [speaker002:] so you know [speaker001:] yeah but I don't know a a a Cherokee would be nice uh or or a Wagoneer uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] or gosh I don't know uh station wagon of some sort you know that that be an an alternative I'm I'm not too sold on the minivan idea uh [speaker002:] you don't you don't like them [speaker001:] well you know I've never driven one so I can't really criticize them fairly but [speaker002:] I like riding in them [speaker001:] do you [speaker002:] I love them I think they're just great two of my friends have them and they're great they're I really like them [speaker001:] they uh um-hum hm [speaker002:] um I rode my one of my friends has a Dodge Caravan and one has a one had a Plymouth Voyager and I liked the Plymouth Voyager the best [speaker001:] um-hum hm [speaker002:] you know it was a little bit fancier [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know they haven't had a bit of problem with them [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] they ride ride real smooth and the kids have room and you know I like them [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] so anyway [speaker001:] yeah yeah um I don't know I always like to to look for something a little with a little more power that's that's that's my main complaint against um like Toyota is because I think they always under power their cars [speaker002:] uh-huh do they [speaker001:] yeah um you know I mean they're they're great if if you're really looking for maximum uh

[speaker001:] well I personally don't have any problem with uh drug testing employees or potential employees do you [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] I mean basically [speaker002:] basically no um um [speaker001:] okay I don't I really can't disagree with it [speaker002:] yeah I I uh uh the policy that TI has I think is uh uh very fair [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um I they first had a policy where they uh would test new employees and then since I've been with them the last four years uh there's been in the last year year and a half um they're doing random testing of all employees [speaker001:] uh-huh I think that's really the only fair way to do it [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] I really think it ought to be some you know Junkins all the way down [speaker002:] and it is it and from from what I understand it is Jerry Junkins all the way down [speaker001:] right as a matter of fact I want to think they took the top managers first isn't that a fact I've been retired from TI about a year but the program you know was still fairly new I guess it had been going on maybe almost a year [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] before I retired so I was not uh ever called upon to do a drug test I certainly wouldn't object to it and I think random is probably you know the only really fair way to do it [speaker002:] yeah um I like it because um you know I I I grew up in the sixties I mean I graduated high school in sixty eight and and uh you know I I saw you know I know my friends who were you know druggies and friends who weren't and and uh you know it's I think it's a real problem [speaker001:] oh I absolutely [speaker002:] and I think it and I think it's causing us a lot of trouble and and a lot of problems [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] and so I'm hoping that uh a lot of other companies will will follow the same path [speaker001:] I don't think they'll have much choice do you [speaker002:] um probably not [speaker001:] especially if they have anything do with you know government contracts or anything as matter of fact I want to believe that the uh defense department more or less mandated that people you know who work on defense contracts you know some do some sort of you know drug testing I think that's really what maybe prompted TI to do it I was in the uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] Defense Electronic Division when I retired I know it was a you know it was a real hot hot item there I think I want to think maybe they you know really got some nudging from you know D O D to do this sort of thing [speaker002:] yeah I used to be in DSEG myself um A P D as a matter of fact [speaker001:] yeah so you knew you know the atmosphere then [speaker002:] yep very aware of it but I I'd I'd I really like the idea uh in fact I would like to see uh a lot more uh people uh adopt it uh like you know school systems and that kind of thing I mean I'd like I'd like to know that my child's being taught by a teacher who's not on drugs or [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] or uh who might be at a point where they're trying to sell my kid drugs [speaker001:] that's right absolutely yeah I don't I just can't disagree with you with you know the basic premise [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's to much as far as I know it's you know seems to be a fairly accurate program as far as uh you know the testing goes [speaker002:] and I like the idea that they have a uh system where they allow you to uh be retested if for some reason there may have been a problem or something did show up [speaker001:] that's right that's right and offer you you know help if you need help [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] yeah I do too [speaker002:] yeah rather than just uh [speaker001:] put you out on the street [speaker002:] put you out on the street and let you fend for yourself [speaker001:] yeah that's right [speaker002:] that's not going to help anybody get over the problem I believe it is a a a medical problem [speaker001:] no absolute that's right [speaker002:] um of course I also think smoking is the most addictive thing in the world too [speaker001:] oh absolutely not to mention alcohol [speaker002:] yeah so I mean there's a lot of things out there and things that uh I'm just glad that they uh decided not to uh tax drugs otherwise they'd be legal and they'd be getting tax money off it the same way they are the alcohol and tobacco [speaker001:] that's right that's right oh gosh well it's it's a real problem I'm sure [speaker002:] yeah I have friends that work in other companies that are just now adopting the policy and and stuff and I uh uh I moved to a TI facility that um had never had uh random drug sampling before [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] because they were outside of the military sector it was uh an industrial company and you know that TI purchased and so the people here a lot of them are real opposed to it [speaker001:] right uh-huh oh yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] uh they were really opposed to it and you know there was a few of them that obviously were doing drugs and that's why they were opposed to it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh that's right [speaker002:] and uh it resulted in in a few people leaving [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know because they just flat out weren't going to put up with the policy [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you know they had a lifestyle and they weren't going to change it [speaker001:] yep right yeah I know a lot of people who [speaker002:] and it's [speaker001:] when it first began or at least began was in the talking stage you know everybody knew it was coming it just a matter of time everybody was screaming you know invasion of privacy and all this stuff but a lot of people I think after they thought about it for awhile and you know weighed the pros and cons decided you know it's really not a bad idea unless you're doing drugs of course [speaker002:] yeah yeah I mean uh you should have no objection to it it's like uh going down to get your license and checking your eyes I mean you know why do I need my eyes checked well we want to make sure you can see [speaker001:] that's right that's right yep yep [speaker002:] why are we doing this well so you don't kill people on the road [speaker001:] that's right or yourself or [speaker002:] uh it's a basic I mean it's the basic premise with you know drug testing [speaker001:] yeah that's right [speaker002:] especially some of the jobs um luckily I've always been in the engineering sector and it's very little that anyone could do in the engineering sector as far as uh you know hurting someone I mean it's hard to imagine somebody misusing a computer and somebody dying from it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh yeah that's true [speaker002:] but uh in the manufacturing sectors and over in semiconductor and down in some of those labs and stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah assembly people [speaker002:] yeah I darn if I'd want somebody down there that I'm working with side by side you know that could kill me [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] by doing something incorrectly because they were not exactly all there because they were on drugs [speaker001:] absolutely [speaker002:] so there's a there's a lot of sectors where I think that would would help out and I think in the long run we all benefit [speaker001:] uh-huh oh absolutely yeah [speaker002:] I mean if you have uh you know if you're not working with someone on drugs well then you're going to have less accidents and you have less accidents and you spend less money on medical and you spend less money on medical then the company's more profitable [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah sure [speaker002:] well then the company's more profitable then maybe they can pay you more if they can pay you more you can buy more and then and it and it goes around you know to everywhere [speaker001:] sure trickles trickles up and down [speaker002:] yep all over [speaker001:] sure does [speaker002:] and uh [speaker001:] yeah affects a lot of people [speaker002:] it certainly does and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I I just hope that uh more and more companies uh get on the ball and and start it up [speaker001:] uh-huh I think they probably will you know if they I'm sure it's a very expensive program to administer I'm not sure every small company could do it [speaker002:] well a lot of companies are are coming down in price and I think that the insurance companies are starting to give uh benefits you know reduction reduction in in medical costs if you know they [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah it's got to help them too [speaker002:] yeah so I think everybody will will benefit from the program [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah I do too that's right [speaker002:] and I think if if a lot more insurance companies get on the bandwagon and say well if you impose uh [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] mandatory drug testing we'll reduce your insurance costs by you know twenty per cent and of course you know the company's not going to reduce the employee's cost of insurance twenty per cent they're going to reduce their own [speaker001:] uh-huh no no but it it'll save in some areas yeah right [speaker002:] yeah and that'll cover it and maybe some insurance companies might start offering it as a uh as part of the package [speaker001:] that's right that certainly could happen that's a very very very very competitive business [speaker002:] yeah so it I I think I think all around it it's going to help out a lot course [speaker001:] yeah I do too I just really can't disagree with you [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] okay well it's nice to talk to you [speaker002:] it was great talking with you [speaker001:] and you take care [speaker002:] you do the same [speaker001:] okay bye-bye [speaker002:] bye-bye

[speaker001:] We're supposed to talk about crime in the city. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, seems like all big cities have plenty of that nowadays, doesn't it? [speaker002:] Well, uh, I, that's, sure. Uh, I, I think it's s-, st-, statistics, obviously, vary greatly. I always thought of Dallas as being a fairly safe place. [speaker001:] Well, it is, but our crimes up here, uh, as I think it must be in most cities now, but, uh, I was listening to the news the other day and they said they thought a lot of it, the reason it was up so was because of the, uh, so many people are without work nowadays, economy's so bad [NOISE]. [speaker002:] Do you really believe that? I mean, it, it's been up every year for many years and the economy hasn't been, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] this bad for so long, has it? [speaker001:] That's a good point [NOISE] [LAUGHTER]. That's just what they quoted over the news. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't know if I believe that or not, but, it, it does seem up and, [speaker002:] What kind of newspaper do you get down there? [speaker001:] What kind? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, we got a, I think we got a pretty good newspaper. Uh, we have two, the MORNING NEWS and the, uh, TIMES HERALD. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] MORNING NEWS seems to have the largest circulation. I think it's a pretty good, it's a locally owned paper. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] The HERALD is owned, I think, by the TIMES out of, uh, L A, or somewhere. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] But, [speaker002:] D-, do they, do they play up the local crime angles or d-, or do they, [speaker001:] Well, they don't, no, not really, uh, they don't play it up, I don't think. Uh, [lipsmack] but there, there is too much of it, you know, uh [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] too many homes broken into. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We had our, our, fact about, uh, last year sometime our home was broken into. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] We, [speaker002:] So this is a topic of personal interest. [speaker001:] Yeah, we, uh, uh, I didn't think ours ever would be burgled into, burgled, but, so many in our neighborhood had been, and, uh, because we live on a corner [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and back up to a real, uh, highly traveled main street. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, uh, we were, so, uh, [speaker002:] So, so you saw this happening in your neighborhood and you figured it wouldn't happen to you. [speaker001:] Sort of, yeah. And I never did get a security system, but since that happened, I certainly have. [speaker002:] Yeah, what kind of system do you have? [speaker001:] It's, uh, [throat clearing] uh, I guess [lipsmack], excuse me, just a standard. Uh, [sniffing], [lipsmack] with the, uh, all the doors and the, uh, infrared thing, you know, motion detector. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Pre-, [speaker002:] Is, [speaker001:] Pretty standard. [speaker002:] Is this, is this one with some company that, that services you and [speaker001:] Yes, yes. [speaker002:] takes your calls and all that stuff? [speaker001:] It's monitored and all that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, [speaker002:] Well, is that a necessary feature to have somebody, you know, at the other end of the line or is it enough just to have a thing that makes loud noise? [speaker001:] I think, uh, the thing that makes a lot of noise would, would suffice. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I really do. But, uh, this deal that was part of it for, you know, three years or so [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] to pay the unit off or whatever. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, but it, uh, the monitoring is not that bad, though because, uh, uh, we've goofed it up, you know, several times you'll hit the wrong key, not intentionally or something and [sniffing], and they call back pretty quickly, so I guess it's, you know, I think it's all right. But I, to answer your question, I think, uh [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] uh, I think, uh, that is a pretty good deterrent in itself, whether it, [speaker002:] S-, s-, so you got a sign up there that says you got this alarm system [NOISE]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And what if a burglar comes along and cuts your phone line? [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] Well, it's got a back up system that doesn't work supposedly. Tha-, uh, that if it's cut supposedly it notifies them anyway [NOISE]. Supposedly. [speaker002:] How does it do that? [speaker001:] Who knows, you know. But that's a selling point. And I think they're probably, I think it probably does these things or [breathing] sur-, supposedly pretty good. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Lipsmack] Boy, they sure advertise them, you know, so many of them nowadays. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] But, uh, well don't, don't you all have a pretty high crime rate up there? [speaker002:] Well, yeah, uh, [speaker001:] I'm not saying it's any higher than anybody else's. Down here, we seem to, or, or not here, but the statistics seem to say that. I don't know. [speaker002:] I, I think it's the murder capital of the country now. [speaker001:] Is that right? [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] I would gather probably from drugs. [speaker002:] Absolutely. [speaker001:] And I think that's the reason it's so high everywhere. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, I don't think there's anyplace, used to, years ago, you thought, well, these little small cities and all, [lipsmack] wouldn't have that problem, but they do. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We've had relatives that their children were just as involved in it, uh, as anyone, you know. [speaker002:] S-, s-, so, what's the solution? [speaker001:] That's a good question. I don't know, I don't know what the solution is. I really don't. [speaker002:] And all these politicians make, make hay over, you know [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] being anticrime, but [speaker001:] Yep. [speaker002:] they haven't seemed to have changed anything. [speaker001:] Th-, and nothing seems to change. And, uh, I'm not sure that anything will because these, if something could happen to make these people not want to buy it [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, but, they want to buy it, so, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Supply and demand. Long as somebody wants to buy it, somebody going to provide it for them [NOISE]. So, I don't know, I don't got, you know, I don't know what the solution is, I really don't [sniffing]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I don't think anyone does, in fact. [speaker002:] Yeah, what,

[speaker001:] experience with um uh dealings in government are that I'm one of these three million dish owners in this country and we've been fighting since about nineteen eighty six to try and get some legislation enacted against some of these cable companies and how they've been stumping on their competition and what little there is and it's a very pro consumer type of legislation but we're constantly running into trouble trying to get it passed because we're up against huge pack money donations from the cable TV industry [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] in this country and I've come to learn that a lot of these politicians unless you can mobilize enough consumers or voters to make a stink about an issue if there's a big pack check involved they'll take the check every single time [speaker002:] uh I guess it's not totally not understandable you know I'm I'm sure that if you're looking at whether or not you're going to get elected and have enough money to run that they've got to uh got to take that into consideration [speaker001:] oh sure but I think it goes I you know a little of it obviously is they're getting themselves prepared for when they're out of office when they become consultants or high-powered lobbyists themselves and uh I I think that although some of the people that we have in elected office are upstanding honest people I think that as they're in the system from longer and longer they get corrupted by it basically by losing touch with the people that they're supposed to be serving and I think they forget who it is they're supposed to be representing [speaker002:] it's uh well it it's it's such a complicated thing let me just relate to you uh an experience that I had with politics at a lower level uh and I think what it boils down to is that if you can't find compromise you're not going to be successful [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um in eighty six I was president of of an association called DPMA Data Processing Management Association [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh which was actually at the time we were the third largest chapter in the world we had five hundred plus members and it was just I mean an absolute uh unforseen unforseen unforeseen thing that a woman should become president in this good ole boy city okay don't misunderstand me now but it it all came down to the fact that you had to be able to deal I mean we had uh our board our officers and our board board of directors of about twenty people now this is a good size group of people to manage and to come to one voice on on certain things you understand and in my year we did perfectly fine and the the gentlemen that came behind me was a uh wonderful intelligent smooth really good looking successful young black man but he had his own agenda and wouldn't compromise with people he thought that because he was president he could drive through whatever he chose [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it was a terrible a terrible situation I mean the whole thing almost fell apart and I think what you have to do I mean you I think it's important to have an agenda but you also have to be able to to compromise on it because if the majority are against you and you lose more than two or three times you know you lose it it been a terrible situation for you and your reputation [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and I think what happens is in order to get anything passed in the big political system in Washington you have to you know compromise with other people and vote for something you don't really believe in but so that they will vote for something that you're asking for [speaker001:] yeah that's that kind of um you know I in a in it's gotten very pervasive when it comes to expectations on the part of members of each of the party that you try not to cross party lines on certain votes especially these days and the problem comes about when you have somebody who wants to vote for something the other party advocates strongly and [speaker002:] and they really want to vote for it [speaker001:] yeah well in some cases they do they vote their conscience and then of course you know they may be punished for not doing the appropriate thing that that came down with the cable issue [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] because we had a Republican Senator uh John Danforth who is strongly in support of it but then you had the White House strongly against it because it would reregulate to an extent [speaker002:] yes it would [speaker001:] and they just wouldn't hear of it at all so we had trouble but he stood his ground and carried with him a lot of influence you know people underneath him who are Republicans but at the same point it causes a lot of strife and then people dig their heels in and [speaker002:] and you know there's probably about ten percent or maybe less than that five percent of the people who can vote their own conscience and still be successful but all the rest fall by the wayside [speaker001:] um-hum yeah you have to be a real old timer and powerful to be able to do that especially when it's committee assignment handout time and [speaker002:] right right I am [speaker001:] things like that

[speaker001:] Wendy I guess we get to talk about budgets tonight or lack of budgets if uh if that may be the case and any kind of long term financial planning or anything like that uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] let me ask you the question do you have a uh budget or a monthly budget or a long term budget that you stick to [speaker002:] right now I'm in college and I'm on work study and so my budget comes from my dad's help [speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] he helps me out a lot and I get paid monthly so that's kind of hard to have a budget my mother uh doesn't get paid much money so her budget is um just uh planning for IRAs [speaker001:] I see I see well good I'm I'm kind of in a different situation but I I I went through that too when I was in school but uh I was I was working to get through college and and uh trying to make it through that but uh I'm married and have uh a couple of children and we have to uh pretty much stick to a budget I'm on a salary so I don't get any overtime or anything like that so [speaker002:] uh-huh oh [speaker001:] but we have a fixed income and we have to make sure that uh every dollar we have is is spent accordingly and um what we try and do to to stick to our monthly budget is we pretty much have you know the house payment we have the insurance premiums [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um utilities and so forth and we do sit down at the beginning of every month or the end of every month and write down how much we know we're going to spend and set that money aside and we also try and set aside money for savings set aside money for the college the kids' education college education the future and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] set aside money for bonds and and we also set aside an emergency fund because [speaker002:] that sounds good [speaker001:] we've uh we've been married for about ten years and we find out that you know no matter what kind of budget you stick on there's always going to be an unexpected car repair or something happen with the house that you have to have money for and uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] it's not enough to go in to take a loan out but uh you have to have money for [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh then we have you know whatever's left over is disposable income disposable disposable yeah discretionary income that we use for the rest of the month so and it's worked out very well it's uh it's helped us so that we haven't been you know too long on the month and too short on the money and uh try and stick with that and nice thing about it I uh my wife is [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] is excellent in that we both work together we both have a budget and we stick to it and there's no surprises in that [speaker002:] well good with two kids that could be hard [speaker001:] well actually I have four kids [speaker002:] four [speaker001:] so yeah I said a couple of kids I I guess I should have specified I have four [speaker002:] oh my goodness [speaker001:] four little boys yeah [speaker002:] four boys oh my goodness it's just me and my sister [speaker001:] you bet you bet all right [speaker002:] and my parents divorced three years ago and my sister had gotten through college but I was still in high school and my mother paid for a lot of my sister's college while my parents were together [speaker001:] um-hum yes [speaker002:] and then uh before the divorce she had saved for my college [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh when we had the divorce she just didn't get much money out of it and had to spend it all on getting another house [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so now my dad's paying for all of my college and financial aid and scholarships I'm a music major so I have auditions coming up [speaker001:] well good good uh-huh yes well what year are you in college [speaker002:] I'm a sophomore [speaker001:] you're a sophomore so you have a few more years [speaker002:] right right I'll I'll probably have about two two and a half years left [speaker001:] uh-huh well good for you good for you yeah I imagine it uh is a little difficult to stick with a budget during uh during school and so forth [speaker002:] oh it sure is I I know how much my dad is going to give me every two weeks and I and I don't spend over that [speaker001:] yes well great great and sometimes that's a little hard with books and music and and sheet music and stuff you've got to work on too [speaker002:] oh sure there's there's always music books to buy [speaker001:] lab fees oh yes oh yes well you're not a starving artist yet are you [speaker002:] oh no no no I don't plan on being a starving artist that's why I'm in college [speaker001:] good well good there there's enough of those in the world huh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] good good I'm glad to hear that Wendy well [speaker002:] that's usually because they're not real educated they can't afford to have a really good job [speaker001:] who's who's not very well educated [speaker002:] the starving ones there's enough out there that if you have if you're educated enough then you can make money [speaker001:] oh yes yes that's true that's true I've found that out so that's why I'm planning and and preparing for the uh education of my children also try and set that money aside [speaker002:] right what did you major in [speaker001:] I majored in business administration [speaker002:] well good you know plenty about planning a budget a budget [speaker001:] and um yeah but uh once again

[speaker001:] well what do you think [speaker002:] well um gosh it set up on a scale one to ten [speaker001:] yeah one being total control total uh restriction and ten being none well I'm probably dead in the middle [speaker002:] uh you know I I think I would too I think I'd straddle the fence [speaker001:] because my husband's a truck driver okay [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and he travels a lot of states and I'm always thinking of New York and all of them now they get New York and California's got New York and Washington should I say [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] got the strictest gun control law there is supposed to be [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it look what it done it's it's nothing the people more people get killed in New York than than anywhere from guns [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah well [speaker001:] so the only people the only thing that I think gun control does to me is it keeps the normal people or should I say law-abiding citizens from having guns because the criminals going to get their guns [speaker002:] right right yeah [speaker001:] it's not going to do any good to now if they ban like the automatic guns and all that from [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] period then you know then if they catch them with one then fine but just gun control ain't going to stop them from having a gun [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] then then that you know [speaker002:] oh well see I agree with you uh it seems like the the crime rate has gone up even more um here this year they're talking about uh there're more murders in Dallas um almost uh since last year and [speaker001:] yeah well the guy that broke in the store stole a bunch of guns and because the owner didn't have a a burglar alarm or something and that that to me that was stupid they should at least make him have [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker001:] an alarm or make it a requirement on them on them gun stores [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you would think but they [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah so yeah but I I just I wouldn't want to ban it completely um but uh somehow there needs to be the one thing that I did like was that where you had to wait seven days um you know um [speaker001:] well no um-hum well I don't mind waiting that's that that I could care less [speaker002:] yeah yeah you know waiting waiting seven days so that they can make sure that check it out and everything's okay and to me that was uh that was perfectly acceptable [speaker001:] you know but um-hum [speaker002:] you know because if you are a law-abiding citizen you're not going to want to you know it's not going to matter to you if you have to wait a little while [speaker001:] hum-um and see the the the thing about it to me that they was talking about having gun control so people wouldn't kill anybody but I am a true believer that if somebody wants to kill somebody okay [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I don't care if they can't get a gun they'll find something else [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] it doesn't matter that they the only thing is is the gun is the quickest way they they had or they had accessible to [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] but if they don't have a gun they'll find something else especially if they want or they'll wait on their seven days because they're not crazy [speaker002:] oh yeah uh-huh oh yeah [speaker001:] yet I mean you know they haven't proved to nobody that they're crazy or they're in no federal no no no uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh what do you call it record or nothing so they'll get a gun then they can go kill somebody and then that'd be it [speaker002:] yeah oh I agree with you yeah um [speaker001:] and then they still going to get it so I don't think the gun control is going to help as far as you know just taking everybody's gun away because Japan well is it Japan one of those those foreign countries has gun control but all the mob people have guns [speaker002:] uh-huh oh yeah yeah no I I don't think that they should ban it I really I really don't um you know I I don't have a gun in the house myself because I have uh children and uh you know feel really uncomfortable about that but if I was by myself I'd definitely have a gun [speaker001:] well I have a gun you know my well my son's fifteen but [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] my husband and me he knows that he don't even touch it and it's not a hand gun see [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] it's a shotgun so it just sits there and it's in it's in my bedroom and he's not allowed in there anyway so [speaker002:] oh okay uh-huh yeah so that's that's a great [speaker001:] but it's not nothing that he can like and that's another thing with these kids with these guns I blame more the parents [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] because I grew up with guns I guess you know in the house my father had a gun cabinet [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] but we wasn't allowed to touch it and Lord help us if we did [speaker002:] oh yeah yeah but see these people I know they keep them up underneath their pillows and you know sitting right on top of their dresser drawers I mean it's no wonder you know the kids get in there and then they blow uh other people away so you know [speaker001:] uh-huh no yeah little kids in the house and I don't like that I don't like it when they have kids little small kids [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] because uh when I have small kids over I close my door [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] and my house is I live I live in an apartment so you know if the door opens I can see like what are you going into my room for it's not like a big house to where's I can't see if they go in my room [speaker002:] um-hum oh yeah yeah yeah uh-huh um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] I'll know if they go in the room because there ain't but two bedrooms so it's like right there [speaker002:] oh yeah yeah so that um yeah but that that's about the biggest reason why I just never never and and I won't even let my my son play with play guns either you know not even get that idea about about them [speaker001:] yeah I think the only gun my son has is part of the Intendo you know with the TV thingy that's about it because [speaker002:] yeah there you go there you go that's right there you go yeah me too [speaker001:] the the you know I don't I don't like that I don't that's that's I don't know I just hum-um but I don't think the gun control as far as I guess I would probably vote right in the middle if if if there is a way to vote [speaker002:] uh-huh

[speaker001:] well I don't know I mean I don't know what you think about this subject I the I had never really thought of what they said before about allowing the the sentencing to uh to go to the judge instead of the jury and allowing him to do that I've been kind of sitting here thinking about that a little bit while we was waiting for them to find somebody and I don't know that that's not a good idea [speaker002:] that's not a bad idea I um uh that you know they probably need to change it somehow uh the whole system needs changing we've just got too many people in there and uh [speaker001:] I agree [speaker002:] docket and are putting too many uh people in jail that probably don't need to be there and it's another form of sentencing but on that one thing I I still think it should be a unanimous decision uh I think we're getting to the point now where they're gonna eventually let it be um majority vote [speaker001:] uh-huh oh yeah I agree yeah [speaker002:] and that's not gonna be good no [speaker001:] I don't like that no I don't like that at all I know my husband served on a on a jury a few months ago up here in Denton that uh was a guy it was it was a drug conviction and I don't remember he had some cocaine and it it was accused of selling it and I don't remember exactly how much he had but uh actually not selling it there's a difference couriering couriering it is what and and there's supposedly a difference from selling then being a courier if he was a courier and um [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] they he he sat on that jury and they found him guilty and they went through the sentencing phase and everything and uh you know they were told that you know during the trial that this is this guy's first offense and he's got this clean record and and they ended up the jury you know decided hey it's time to crackdown here you know and it's time to to do this drug thing and let's crackdown and let's really and they sentenced him to fifteen years you know which they thought first offense okay this is they thought that that was that was a good thing and they sentencing him to fifteen years and um after it was all over uh the judge they sit down with the judge and with the other two lawyers [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] let me come over in just a second okay and sat down with the judge and with the other two lawyers and they were told that uh he would probably serve three [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] of the fifteen and that he had three previous convictions however they could not tell the judge the jury that during the trial because all three of them were in appeal [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] so the jury didn't know about it so here they based their sentencing thinking that this was this guy's first offense and so you know we'll give him fifteen which'll teach him a lesson but it's not just [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] you know horrible since it was first offense and he'd been convicted three times before you know and and the jury was very upset and my husband came home at home very upset I mean he felt like that that they had been tricked you know and so [speaker002:] yeah yeah right that [speaker001:] something I wonder if a judge didn't have control of that if some of that would change you know [speaker002:] yeah and the judge might know or at least it it wouldn't hurt to switch over there and see if it worked any better if it didn't we can come back for something else or or or what we've got so well we definitely need a change in the system and uh [speaker001:] that's true that's very true yeah yeah obviously what we're doing is not working you know no [speaker002:] it's not working too it's just piling up on us [speaker001:] yeah and there's you know there's people in our prisons that are not being rehabilitated in any way shape or form and either they're in there forever or when they get out they're you know it's a matter of a few months and they're gonna be right back for the same thing so the system [speaker002:] right right yeah we're just not willing to as a society not willing to spend the time or the money to do what it takes yeah [speaker001:] that's very true yeah I was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day and I said you know I understand that there are a lot of countries that rely on the United States [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] to and and and the people in those countries rely on our money to survive but I really believe that we need to take care of ourselves I mean we and and it would I know people say oh it would be cruel to you know pull our aid from these other countries and and maybe so so tell them you've got five years [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] to work out a plan to make it on your own [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and we will continue funding you for the next two years after two years we're cut it down seventy to seventy five you know seventy five percent and after another year we'll cut it fifty percent and in five years [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it should by then you should all should have a plan worked where you can make it on your own without our help [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] and then we'll have all we'll have we will have the money if we would do that to to work on our own system because we've got some serious problems here and we're trying to heal the world you know it's just not [speaker002:] very true yeah oh yeah you're very accurate [speaker001:] it's just not working I look at the I look at what you know this what the aid we're sending to the Kurds and I I feel sorry for them and I know they're suffering and I know they're dying every day but we've got you know kids here in the United States that are dying every day too you know and being [speaker002:] sure oh [speaker001:] abused and neglected and you know I don't know I just have this problem with [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] trying to heal the world when you're so sick yourself you know so [speaker002:] right well we seem to agree on the jury thing and uh but uh we'll need an unanimous verdict and maybe let the judge have a opportunity to make the sentence yeah [speaker001:] yeah I think we should try it like you say if it doesn't work we can always come back but I think it would be a good idea to try it [speaker002:] I do too [speaker001:] so anyway well we all agree you too bye-bye [speaker002:] well good good to hear from you bye-bye

[speaker001:] one of the hardest things in finding child care is deciding to let go what do you think [speaker002:] now what do you mean by letting go [speaker001:] well like going back to work and uh it seems like parents have a very difficult time especially mothers have a very difficult time in uh finding someone well first off in going back to work they uh with the little babies and then then finding someone that satisfies them [speaker002:] um-hum right right well um gosh my kids are older now so I feel like that that my uh choices are are different now when I first [speaker001:] um-hum yes [speaker002:] when I first went back to work uh you're right I I wanted to have somebody who came into the house and who performed you know certain functions and that closeness and I noticed that as the older they got [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know the less and less picky I got about that um uh that criteria [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh but you know now uh you know I wish there was somebody not so much to babysit the kids but tutor them in homework really really so but [speaker001:] oh yeah and help help with the housework a little bit the the best one I ever had was uh when I had only one child and uh was an infant and it was an older woman and she came to the house and uh she had noon meal cooked and my husband and I came home and ate and everything [speaker002:] um-hum oh see that would've been wonderful [speaker001:] well of course it was extra special for us because he was a student and I had to work so uh that really helped [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh uh-huh oh yeah yeah yeah those uh those people who can uh stay you know home and and take care of the kids and uh you know do that I think are really special people [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um so you just don't find that anymore um even now the the day cares though are so expensive [speaker001:] oh yes [speaker002:] that um I don't know how parents afford them uh [speaker001:] I don't either well a lot of mothers have had to quit work because of that [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] you get one or two children one child and could be fifty to seventy five dollars a week [speaker002:] oh yeah I [speaker001:] and then you get two and it just multiplies [speaker002:] um-hum yeah I I think it's gone up to like a hundred dollars a week and depending on on what age they are [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and uh you know if you want quality day care to where they have uh not only just their meals taken care of those basic necessities but also uh their education too [speaker001:] that's true study time and uh if they watch television it's educational only or you know monitor that don't just turn them loose on it [speaker002:] um-hum because um-hum oh yeah oh yeah so it's a I I think it's changed over the years um but you know I found uh like I said they at least when my kids were growing up that uh it was harder especially companies didn't have programs to where they would help you find babysitters yeah [speaker001:] oh no huh-uh you found someone in the neighborhood if you were lucky yeah [speaker002:] um-hum that's right that's right and um-hum [speaker001:] it have you had any experience with people who have chosen nannies [speaker002:] no no but you know I've read um you know some stories uh about that and uh so now now I don't do you know of anybody [speaker001:] um-hum well I'm I do the kind kind of work we we do medical checkups on some who are going to be nannies and the criteria they're using are they want they they require them to have certain blood tests and [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] as well as their educational requirements and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the one nannies I've talked to who bring the children in are very very uh oh enthusiastic about what they're doing with them and [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] um they present themselves well but that's as as close as I've come to them [speaker002:] yeah yeah no I had just you know read in a uh oh I don't know the the want columns um but I guess when I had thought about it since I've been a single parent for so long that uh you know I wished I had the money for something like that [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum oh yes [speaker002:] because of the special um oh I don't know the um the special closeness that bond that's formed versus taking them to a day care where they just they're one of many children [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] yeah so that's a that's to me it's extra special [speaker001:] well the only I think the one good thing about day care of course I'm in the grandchildren age and one of my grandchildren needed the day care because he needed to the other [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh other uh younger children he needed to learn to share [speaker002:] sure sure [speaker001:] he was uh his mother couldn't get two feet from him [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and uh they're hoping that that helps on that course that may be just the age [speaker002:] yeah it it could be age but you know I I can never regwet regret uh the children uh going through that day care experience because they learned so many things uh such as responsibility independence [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh you know that sharing I mean there are a lot of good things I I know there's a lot of drawbacks to women going back to to work [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but um I think there was so many positives that that I saw [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] um that I I really didn't have that much guilt about it [speaker001:] well good good course what really helps is when you know you have to right [speaker002:] yeah that made it real easy but I I

[speaker001:] Yeah, so, uh, what are your favorite T V shows? [speaker002:] One that I can't find anymore which is GABRIEL'S FIRE. [speaker001:] Oh, I haven't watched that very much, is that, do you like that? [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] When was that on? [speaker002:] It was usually on, um, Thursday nights. [speaker001:] On A B C? [speaker002:] I don't know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, oh, yeah, well, um, um, it may be that, um, it was recently replaced, by actually by, um, by what may be my favorite T V show of, because sort of, uh, um, TWIN PEAKS. [speaker002:] It was same time period, yes. [speaker001:] Yeah, so, TWIN PEAKS, um, what happened was, I think, TWIN PEAKS, um, went, went off, they moved to a Saturday night for a while. And then put, and then put something, I guess, GABRIEL'S FIRE on it, and at Thursday nights, and then they moved, um, no, GABRIEL'S FIRE was on C B S, I think, I, I take that back. I'm not sure, but anyway they moved it back and forth and that's when PEAKS was back in that time slot as well. So, I don't know. [speaker002:] You don't know what happened to GABRIEL'S FIRE then? [speaker001:] No, I have no idea. I don't think, I don't think that was on A B C, anyway I don't know what happened to it though. [speaker002:] I don't remember one, from one station to another. I keep forgetting one station. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] What's your second favorite? [speaker001:] Um, it's hard to say [LAUGHTER] I'm sort of a very big TWIN PEAKS fan, and beyond that I just sort of watch anything that happens to be on. I'm, I'm, half the time I'm a T V addict and the other half the time I just ignore it [LAUGHTER] it's really bad. Yeah, there's some new shows that I sort of like, um, have you seen this SHANNON FIELD SHOW or, uh, it's about a lawyer, it's one of these lawyer shows, you know, they seem to be popular these days. And there's a lot of those Blair shows floating around. [speaker002:] Oh, is he the reformed, um, gambler? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yes, yes, yes. [speaker001:] I just like I just finished watching that a few minutes ago, [LAUGHTER]. Um, and it and, that, that's a interesting one. I, I, I like that, because there's, there are, I've noticed that every, every major station now has their own law show. There's L A LAW, and there's, um, EQUAL JUSTICE, some other one, LAW AND ORDER or something. Lots of, lots of these things that are floating around now. They seem to be popular shows. Do you like the law shows or, [speaker002:] I really don't watch that much T V, what I do is I tape the programs I want to watch, and then on the nights I can watch, I'll pick out something. [speaker001:] That, that makes logic, [speaker002:] But, um, [speaker001:] also saves a lot of time with commercials. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] you're not kidding. Do you ever watch AMERICAN GLADIATORS? [speaker001:] Oh, I have. I've, I've, I watched that late, um, I guess it's on late Saturday nights or something, [speaker002:] Midnight. [speaker001:] that's entering the day as well. [speaker002:] Midnight. [speaker001:] Have you, have, have you seen this often? [speaker002:] I tape it. [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] Yeah, I tape it because I don't stay up that late to watch it, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I tape it. But I understand, uh, that in England, they play it at normal times because they don't consider that violent, and the reason they have it on here so late is because they consider it a violent program. [speaker001:] Really? I don't know that. *don't didn't I, [speaker002:] And, I'm like, I don't believe this. [speaker001:] That don't, it, it, it seems like, I mean, if wrestling is prime time, professional wrestling, it seems like it's just, just, just like pros in a wrestling to me, I don't, I don't see any difference though, [speaker002:] I don't either. [speaker001:] I, I don't understand it, they consider it violent. I have so ever, I have seen it on, where we are, I live in, uh, Rochester, New York, and I think a, [speaker002:] You're in New York? [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Where are you? [speaker002:] I'm in Dallas, Texas. [speaker001:] You're, uh, everybody I speak to is in Texas, oh, oh, yeah, but I'm, I'm in New York and, uh, we seem, we seem to have, um, I think the AMERICAN GLADIATORS is on Sunday afternoons actually around here as well, [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] sometimes. I think it's been on, I think I've seen it during the day. I know I've seen it during the day in Florida. When I was at my parents down there. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] Definitely seen it do-, on, on, during the day down there, and I don't think it's a very violent show, I think it's funny. I think it's a real good concept, I think it's something completely new. [speaker002:] I think it's great. I love watching a microbiologist fighting off with a policemen or something else, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and competition. I'm going oh, great, you know, [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] it's a, it's a great role model for everybody. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think so, I think because people sort of get through, you know, um, I think that people sort of learn the importance of sort of physical fitness as well as the, as well as, you know, some mental fitness and I think that people sort of learn good sportsmanship and so forth. [speaker002:] Oh, yes, I mean, when I had, uh, I was watching it, the, first time I ever saw a microbiologist on there I thought well, it just goes to prove it has nothing to do with your physical capabilities. And, uh, there she was terrific, she was really terrific. [speaker001:] Well, don't they take people who have some sort of, um, big abilities like and, and at least they used to when it, when it, the first ones I saw they had, um, a man on who was, uh, he played college football and almost went pro, and they had a, a woman who was a black belt in karate and she was the, uh, she was in the junior Olympics or something or they seem to have people who have very, very big sports backgrounds. To have they, le-, leaned away from that sort of, [speaker002:] They hold competitions in Los Angeles in, um, Florida and Minneapolis, Minnea-, um, trying to think of, I think it's in four places around the United States. They hold competition and the only requirement is, of course, your skill of passing these tests, [speaker001:] Oh, that's how they do it. [speaker002:] and that's it. And we had a bar man from here in Dallas area that made it. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] There is a woman that, uh, made, well, she called herself a craft person so, I'm not quite sure what she made. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, uh, she made it. I mean there is no, your occupation has nothing to do with it. [speaker001:] Yeah, okay, I just thought they had some, [speaker002:] Strictly your skill. [speaker001:] yeah, I thought they had some sort of, I mean, I thought they were just poor people like us I guess not, that's great. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] But, maybe I'll try it one day. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I'll get on there one day and see if I can, uh, um, what, what do they win, they, they win money I think, don't they? [speaker002:] I think the last I heard was it's up to about a hundred fifty thousand dollars. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Wow. All that for getting tennis balls shot at you at a hundred miles an hour. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's, you know, just minor. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Just minor little ball here or there, you know. [speaker001:] One little ball here and there, yeah, and this guy's beating you up, so, I don't know the beating up part. I, I actually feel the tennis balls would hurt. [speaker002:] Oh, well, they, [speaker001:] They look like, [speaker002:] they come out with a lot of bruises too. [speaker001:] Yeah, they seem like a tennis ball but it almost doesn't look like it's almost livable yeah, the best I, I don't think I could, I, I could handle those tennis balls. So, what else to you tape besides AMERICAN GLAD-, at, there anything else? [speaker002:] Hey, [speaker001:] Huh? [speaker002:] see I tape MURDER SHE WROTE. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] I like mysteries. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] I like mysteries. I tape, um, FATHER DOWLING, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] because that's another mystery, and I don't have to concentrate too hard on them. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] But, I'm sure that's fun. [speaker002:] Um, most of the lawyer programs like, uh, LAW AND ORDER, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they're not on the times that I've got, that I've watched because I haven't had T got, T V GUIDE around here in ages. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, well, they seem to be on later, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] all, always right, right before the news is when I catch them. I, I tend to, if nothing else is in the town television at eleven o'clock just to watch the news, and or, or NIGHTLINE or something, just sort of get a good, you know, a good, a good think for the day. [speaker002:] Your news is on at eleven? [speaker001:] Yes. When is yours on? [speaker002:] Ten, I was just in the middle of watching it. [speaker001:] Oh, gosh, well, I'm sorry I interrupted, um, [speaker002:] Oh, that's okay. [speaker001:] Yeah, ours is on, [speaker002:] No problem. [speaker001:] actually it, ours is on at eleven it, it's, um, eleven o'clock now here or eleven twenty-five now here in New York. Um, I think they wo-, they do that, I think they put things on at, um, eleven o'clock here and I think they put it like eleven o'clock, um, California time, like in California but in the middle they sort of, um, like central time or mountain time they, they push things back. So, I was actually, actually I'm not sure , I was in, I was in Iowa awhile ago, and noticed that everything was an hour earlier, so, does your prime time start at seven o'clock? [speaker002:] No, well, they have it at six and they have it at nine, [speaker001:] Wait, no, no, [speaker002:] and they have one at ten. [speaker001:] not, not even the news but do they have like, um, do like sort of all the regular sitcoms and so forth, start at seven o'clock? You, so, like, you know, the regular television shows that are, that are very popular, do they start at, [speaker002:] I'm trying to think. [speaker001:] seven or, or at eight? [speaker002:] Both, um, let's see they start, um, EVENING SHADE at seven and then it goes to, um, what is it after EVENING, um, [speaker001:] Right, because that would the eight o'clock here. [speaker002:] that's MAJOR DAD at eight I think it is. [speaker001:] Yeah, that, that would all start at, at, um, that would all start at, at eight o'clock here, that wouldn't start at seven. We have, um, at seven o'clock we just have, um, the, they'll play, you know, they have old reruns of CHEERS or something from seven to seven thirty, and then something else from seven thirty to eight but then at, at eight o'clock is when everything starts. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] Which is, which is strange, I mean, because yours start at seven and end to ten and ours start at, at, at, at eight and end at eleven, that's why we . I, I would actually like it better if everything started at seven and ended at ten. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's, it's stopped around here at ten {C and } it goes into night programs, at that point which could be one of, you know, many different night programs but it goes into night programs. [speaker001:] Oh, that's great. [speaker002:] But, uh, do you ever watch CHEERS? [speaker001:] Oh, all the time. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Do you watch CHEERS or, [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, oh, yeah. [speaker001:] There's, there's, it's at, that was actually a big dilemma for me now because, um, CHEERS, CHEERS and TWIN PEAKS are now on the same time,

[speaker001:] Okay, what types of music do you like to listen to? [speaker002:] Well, I primarily listen to classical music when I have my druthers, partly because I find it more soothing. I don't know a lot about classical music so far as, uh, any background in music, but it's the po-, the music I enjoy the most. How about you? [speaker001:] I like classical music also. I, uh, like you, I don't know a whole lot about it, and I, I would like to buy more classical tapes and stuff, but I'm not sure which composers or which [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I really like, so I kind of hesitate [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] to buy something. There are certain kinds I like and certain kinds I don't. [speaker002:] I tend to listen to the classical music, uh, on the radio a lot. There's, uh, one particular, well there several stations in this area that play, uh, classical music all the time, but there's one in particular that is on both A M and F M so I can listen to it without, uh, worrying. It's cute, though, because my children, when they get in the car, and I have, uh, the button pushed for that, they always switch it to something else [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Because naturally that isn't their taste [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] at this point in time anyway. [speaker001:] Yeah, I understand that. [speaker002:] Are, are you involved in music? [speaker001:] Uh, no, not really. My husband is, but not, I do, uh, the world a favor and I don't sing aloud, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] to anybody but myself [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, my whole family is somewhat musical, um, and not from training, but just because we sing in our choir and my daughter's quite involved and all that sort of thing. So, um, I think that one of these days maybe she'll get involved in classical music, too, because that's usually what happens if you, unless you get into rock, which isn't her voice style. So, [speaker001:] Yeah, I, I don't care for rock, at all. I guess I'm real old fashioned in my musical tastes. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] No, I, well most of it is not all that exciting in that it is terribly repetitious. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] It's loud and repetitious without having a great deal of meaning. Now I do like folk song. Um, and there have been some nice folk songs over the years that, you know, kind of still hang around. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, um, but, uh, the more popular music I don't care for, usually. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Um, even when I was a teenager I didn't really like the music of that period so much because I found I liked, um, a little bit more melodious music than what was often the popular, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] rock and roll kind of sound. [speaker001:] I agree with that too. [speaker002:] Although now I kind of enjoy hearing the rock and roll, I guess it makes me think I'm young again [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, now rock and roll seems tame compared to like the New Age and all that stuff. [speaker002:] Isn't that the truth? It's funny. In fact, it's interesting to me that so many of the songs, now I grew up in the late fifties and early sixties, and so much of the music that was popular at that time, has come back. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, you, you don't hear everything all the time, but you hear much of the same music, perhaps a new version of it, but it's the same stuff. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Um, which is always kind of funny. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Um, and I remember my older sister. I have a sister who's sixteen years older, and at the time that I was a teenager, a late teenager I guess, I can't remember the year, SMOKE GETS IN YOUR EYES became popular. I think it was done by maybe the Platters or something. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Then, and she laughed and she said, Well, you know, when I was a teenager, that had been, you know, some years before, she said, that was a version of, you know, a song then. And she said, It's very similar, but they've changed a little bit. She said, I like the original version better. Well, they did it again, about [LAUGHTER] two or three years ago, and I laughed again. I said, Oh no, here we are [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Crops up every so often. [speaker002:] Right, right. It does indeed. [speaker001:] I listen to, um, the Christian radio station when I'm in the car. K L T Y. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I like to listen to some of that. [speaker002:] Yes, now there, there's some wonderful Christian music when you can find good stations. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, the pro-, problem that I found, um, in this area is that the, there, there is inconsistency in the quality [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] here. If you get someone who's very good at selecting, it's okay, but sometimes they kind of get on a, a, a binge, and they play the same sort of thing over and over again, without really necessarily quality. [speaker001:] Yeah, where do you live? [speaker002:] Uh, I live in the, uh, Washington, D C area, Maryland. [speaker001:] I thought maybe you lived in Dallas, because that's the complaint I make to my husband about the radio station too. I said, Oh, they're playing one of their ten [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] songs. It seems like every week they pick ten and they just play them over and over, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, and I, I, you know, there's so much available [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] that I don't understand why they do that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, um, now my children have, have sometimes, um, they've gone to a few of the concerts and so on of Christian musicians that come to our youth group at our church. And, um, and when they buy a tape or something, sometimes that's fun because it's different and something I've not always heard, and, you know, I enjoy that. [speaker001:] Right. My husband likes Sandy Patty songs. He likes to sing those in church. He'd buy all the sound tracts he could get his hands on *typo tracks [speaker002:] Oh, wow. [speaker001:] if he had the money to. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's nice. So, is your husband a singer? [speaker001:] Well, just an amateur singer. He sings in the choir and he likes to do special music and stuff at church. [speaker002:] Right. Yeah. Well, that's a good thing to do. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah, I like to hear him sing. [In a very soft voice] He does a good job. [speaker002:] That's nice, uh, well, do you have children? [speaker001:] No, not yet, we're expecting a baby in July. [speaker002:] Well, wonderful. [speaker001:] I guess we'll start listening, [speaker002:] That'll be a musician. [speaker001:] Yeah, maybe so. We'll start listening to children's music [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, there's some wonderful Christian, uh, children's tapes. [speaker001:] Yeah, there are. [speaker002:] You can, uh, you can get, and I know when my children were younger, um, we found a lot of really nice tapes that they, that they liked. Um, there was an Agape music group, and, um, I, some of the songs I still find going over in my head over and over again because they were really, um, very memorable [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] even though my children are now, my youngest is almost sixteen. [speaker001:] Oh, uh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But I still find some of the same tapes, I, uh, some of the same songs from those tapes I enjoy. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Um, there's one that's, um, a little girl singing Practice Makes Perfect. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, she's playing the piano. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] And so she, she gets the wrong note every now and then. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But then she keeps repeating it, practice makes perfect, and then you know, talking about that so far as Christian life, too, and it's really cute. [speaker001:] Yeah, that sounds really cute. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, I tell my husband to sing to my stomach, because they say that babies can hear quite a lot while they're still in the womb, and I said, then when, when it's born you can hold it [speaker002:] Yeah, right. [speaker001:] and sing that again and maybe it'll comfort her, you know, when she's fussy and stuff. [speaker002:] Yeah, well do you know something? [speaker001:] What? [speaker002:] Because I have always played classical music, uh, or classical style, it's not always classical as, you know, the official, uh, word might go, but, um, even when I was pregnant, of course I listened to that, and when our first child was, you know, an infant, um, of course, when I was around the house, I played that music, too. When he first made sounds that you could detect they were in the scale, the music scale. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] Someone else noticed it [speaker001:] How strange. [speaker002:] and I said, well, I guess that's true. And it was somewhat melodious, in other words [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it wasn't just [speaker001:] Babbly. [speaker002:] you know, it was really funny [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I'll say, that is [LAUGHTER]. Well, we'll have to keep up with that then. [speaker002:] Right, right. I do think there is probably an influence there, because I noticed that even though popular music, the, the wilder stuff, was around when my older children were, were, you know, adolescents, early adolescents, when they first start listening to music on their own [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they first get, ask for a radio of their own, and so on, um, this same child, um, really listened to more, um, ballady or, um, pleasant sort of songs rather than, and even classical, rather than the real hard rock stuff that so many other kids listen to. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] And I, I never, I didn't want to say too much for fear he would think it was wrong and wouldn't do it anymore [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Right, yeah, have something to rebel against [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Right [LAUGHTER]. But, uh, then I must say they all kind of like a variety of music, which is nice, I like that. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's good, yeah, variety is good. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, I guess that covers it. It was real good talking to you. [speaker002:] Well, it was nice talking to you, and good luck with the baby. [speaker001:] Well, thanks, bye. [speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] okay Scott let's uh talk about advice that we can offer a parent where the child is going to go to a university and [speaker002:] uh-huh do you have any do you have any kids or [speaker001:] I have some yes some children I have three boys and they're all quite young and so we want to plan for their education we're we're saving right now and we're getting [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker001:] bonds and and uh and hopefully finances set aside so that they can choose a college that they want to how about yourself do you have any kids [speaker002:] right no I'm in graduate I'm in graduate school right now [speaker001:] so so I imagine you've gone through the experience yourself of selecting your college your own college [speaker002:] yeah yeah definitely in fact I'm even going uh selecting again for for my PhD it's it's a closed subject right now [speaker001:] very good what uh what do you use as a basis to determine which college or university you go to [speaker002:] um well I use uh uh uh I have used uh several techniques depending on what for undergraduate I I you know my my criteria were much different than than like for graduate school [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um when I when I wanted to go to an undergraduate's institution I was looking for something that was you know rather small and easy to get around you know [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and what I would what I thought would be easy to get through [speaker001:] yeah what what you thought huh [speaker002:] yeah and and uh yeah my choice of graduate schools was uh you know it changed a whole lot I I got to where I I wanted to uh uh graduate with a little you know with a name behind me rather than uh [speaker001:] just the degree itself [speaker002:] yeah yeah so [speaker001:] well that's a that's that's good because I did quite a bit the same thing in my undergraduate work I wanted to get a school that was small enough that was personable that you didn't have a lecture with uh hall with about [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] fifteen other students competing for the professor's attention [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh but you I felt that I got a a pretty good uh undergraduate um [speaker002:] where where did you go [speaker001:] I went to Utah State University which is in Logan Utah [speaker002:] okay uh-huh [speaker001:] and the nice thing about it too is I knew that I wanted to get into business and that their business College of Business was accredited and well known at least there in the State of Utah and around the surrounding states and so forth [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and so I I felt like number one you need you also need to see what kind of name the like you mentioned before the name the college and university can can give you [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and another thing that uh another reason why I chose that was the the finances I wanted to make sure that I would be able to afford it that I wouldn't get through four three years of of the undergraduate work and and have to leave [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh so I did a lot of talking with friends with family with uh counselors at high school and also read some [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] some books on on the subject at the at the library [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh it was kind of unusual because my my two older brothers and I all went to three three different universities depending upon what our choice was so [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] hopefully we we chose the one that was best for us and I I felt very comfortable and good about that so I [speaker002:] um-hum do you do you worry do you worry any about uh uh you being able I mean do you uh obviously you've taken precautions you know or or measures to uh try and pay for your children's education but do you think that that's gonna be enough [speaker001:] I don't think so I don't know the the way that tuition is increasing um [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] exponentially it's it's it's kind of hard to set aside money and have that money grow same pace that the college tuition is increasing I uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah I all I all I can hope for is that I land a professorship at a at a nice heavy university and [speaker001:] and that the your children can use the benefits of that university well that that's an excellent idea that's an excellent idea [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] one thing that uh that we did uh and my parents and our family is that we weren't able to afford um the kind of education that we all desired so my parents stressed that we get excellent grades and that we apply and try for scholarships [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh scholarships were very beneficial in my case to help pay for my education because my parents couldn't [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and what these scholarship could not supply I was able to to work for and and save and and and get also my my brother um [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] he's a he's a medical doctor right now he had to you know once he got past his undergraduate and graduate degree he had to take out some loans and he's he's working to pay those off [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] so I I think that the uh you know once you get past uh the initial stages of it that there's different options you can use and and uh the student loans are are a good option and [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's what that's my biggest option right now [speaker001:] yeah yes and and as you're well aware that tuition's not cheap

[speaker001:] not be a very good conversationalist on fishing. I don't do a lot of it. [speaker002:] Well, I do love to fish. [speaker001:] Well good, maybe I can learn something. [speaker002:] Well, I don't know how much you can learn. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I'm not so sure I'm good at it, but I do enjoy doing it. [speaker001:] Do you? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, it is fun, what little I do. Of course, I don't, you know, I think when they refer to different kinds of fishing I told my husband last night when I had called and they had, told me that this was a topic, I said, well, I can tell them how to fish with a minnow or how to fish with a worm [LAUGHTER]. He said, I don't think that's the different kinds of fishing they're talking about [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, I hope it is, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] there's not a whole lot of different kinds. [speaker001:] That's about the only kind I know how to do. [speaker002:] I don't do a lot of deep sea fishing, I, because I get seasick, but [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] we have a lot of lakes here in this area [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I do a lot of fishing for, uh, bass. We have a lot of, uh, uh, couple of lakes in our area that are fil-, just filled with good sized bass. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And then when I get tired of them outwitting me, I fish for catfish [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and we use worms and shiners, which is pretty much like minnows [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] a little bit bigger than minnows, and then I also use spinner baits and plastic worms. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It all depends on what I'm fishing for, and the time of day. [speaker001:] Well, it sounds like you do quite a bit of it. [speaker002:] I do. Uh, there's a lake like maybe two or three miles from here, and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it's very convenient on afternoons when I want to just get away and sit and think. Fishing's a good way to do that, and I have a lot of friends who like to go fishing. [speaker001:] Do you have a boat? [speaker002:] No, I don't. I have a friend who has a little infla-, inflatable raft, and we [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] use that sometimes. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I wish I had a boat, but I don't. [speaker001:] I think the lakes are probably different in Michigan than they are in Texas. The ones around here are so big, that you can fish off the dock [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but unless you have a boat you can't really get into the, where they call the good fishing holes, you know. [speaker002:] Right. That's the same way here, isn't it? [speaker001:] Is it? [speaker002:] You have to get back in the sticks in the, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. My in-laws live on a lake, uh, a little bit east of Dallas, kind of in the Piney Woods, and the lake is beautiful, and I like to go out and stand at the end of the dock and fish, but actually catching fish to eat per se, you don't really do much of that right there. I catch a lot of little old, uh, I think they call them perch [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and then the, the, uh, turtles try to eat up all my bait [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh. [speaker001:] So it's, it's so close to the dock that I think all I do is feed them a little bit [speaker002:] We don't have, [speaker001:] but it's kind of fun. [speaker002:] We don't have a big problem with turtles, but we do have a awful lot of snakes in our lakes. [speaker001:] Um [speaker002:] And I, [speaker001:] I would be afraid of that. [speaker002:] Well, I can't think of a time that I've been fishing that I haven't run into one or two of them. [speaker001:] Do they ever get on your hook? [speaker002:] No, we, uh, occasionally I'll catch an eel [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] on a, on a hook, but never the snakes. They just kind of, [speaker001:] Are they poisonous snakes? [speaker002:] Uh, we have a lot of cotton mouth, so yes they are, definitely [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and they live in little shallow, little coves that I like to fish in, so I seem them swimming by every once in a while. [speaker001:] Yeah, I think I'd be a little bit afraid of those. [speaker002:] Yeah, they can, they're, they're certainly ugly. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. We, uh, saw a large snake right off the dock there at my in-laws' place last year. It was probably four inches in diameter or something like that you know. Great big snake, and it, of course, it scared the women to death, you know, but the men come out and said oh, well, that's only a, a king snake, it won't really hurt you, you know. But it looked so bad [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and it was so big, that it might not would have hurt us, but we sure felt like it was hurting us, just being there, you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Definitely. [speaker001:] But they're scary looking. [speaker002:] Do you have bass? [speaker001:] Yes, uh, I think that, uh, probably around here people fish for bass and crappie and catfish more than anything else. [speaker002:] Right. Well, that's pretty much the same way here. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I, [speaker001:] Now, they have a lot of bass tournaments. [speaker002:] Well, we have those. I don't [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I inevitably, if I enter one of those, I never catch a thing. [speaker001:] Oh, no. [speaker002:] I just go out there and sit and watch other people do it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Well that's kind of, we've never entered a tournament or anything. We're not that big into fishing, but I see a lot of people, you know, early in the morning there'll be all the boats going out, and they'll say, Well, there's a big bass tournament this weekend, and all those people are here for the tournament, you know. [speaker002:] Oh, yes. [speaker001:] So I think there's a lot of people that have, you know, really, I guess that you'd call it really sport fishing, they're really into it to try to win. [speaker002:] Yeah, oh, definitely. [speaker001:] My. [speaker002:] Certainly here they are. [speaker001:] But it is, it's very, a very relaxing sport to be able to just be out on the water and looking around. The peace and calmness is really relaxing. [speaker002:] Yeah, it's a good thing to take a nice book and sit back and read and fish. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] That's what I do a lot. [speaker001:] I've never tried taking a book with me. I'll have to try that one of these days.

[speaker002:] so you think uh the Soviet Union's a threat anymore to US [speaker001:] you know I was I was thinking about that while I was waiting for the connection I I think uh you know it's uh uh a military threat certainly I don't feel like it's like it was back in the the sixties whenever Kruschev said he was going to bury us [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh at the same time I I think they may still be a threat in a different sort of a way in that uh the situation over there is so unstable [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and and the especially the economics uh uh ramifications of whatever is going to happen over there I mean they're like a a quarter of the land mass of the earth [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] you know and and if things don't get straightened out over there it it will impact us one way or the other I think [speaker002:] right right I think I'm just afraid of uh what they're going to do with their nuclear warheads that they already have right now that uh they said you know they're open to uh anybody who's willing to pay the money I think uh Ukraine said that you know if you've got the money for it we'll give you the warheads [speaker001:] is that right I hadn't heard that [speaker002:] yeah and uh I'm just afraid you know some some guy like Sadaam Hussein [speaker001:] yeah or or any one of the other uh nuts that are running around yeah [speaker002:] oh yeah I mean you could get someone like you know the guy who uh who negotiates arms you know you know he buys them out sticks them in his arsenal and starts selling them to everybody in the world [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well it's uh I don't know it's it's amazing to see uh the kind of changes that's happened just in the past uh you know not even ten years or even five years it's just awesome [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yeah well you know it's I guess the break up it's self was was uh kind of unusual and then now all of a sudden you know Gorbachev who was uh in the US's pocket pretty much [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] is now gone you know and now we've got Yeltsin uh Yeltsin who seems like he's a little bit of a hard ball typical [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] typical communist [speaker001:] yeah but even so he seems to be a much more reasonable person than than you know previous Soviet leaders [speaker002:] oh yeah doesn't right right that's true [speaker001:] and uh you know it's just uh uh you see this the uh you know on television the the uh shows uh on the news with the the people waiting in line [speaker002:] um-hum uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] they had last night I think it was on ABC where some Soviet doctors had gone on strike because their uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] monthly salary was about enough money to buy them six pounds of sausage with you know the new increase in prices [speaker002:] right hm [speaker001:] which is you know of course doctors over there aren't held in the same rare high esteem that they have here in the US [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum well [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] the other thing was uh like nuclear scientists over there were being uh taken in by you know other countries you know [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because I mean like you said they're not being paid very much over there and and whereas they can command salaries of you know twenty thousand dollars a month in uh you know these middle eastern countries that you know oil bearing countries you know and I saw that they uh Iraq and Iran had offered uh twenty thousand dollars a month to nuclear scientists I mean [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] who wouldn't want that kind of money [speaker001:] yeah yeah you know I I would even consider moving to Iraq for that I mean [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah really well anyway it's [speaker002:] but I mean and and these and these are guys that couldn't eat you know so [speaker001:] yeah yeah well as a matter of fact I know that uh you know they they were concerned about the Soviet brain drain because there're so many of their top people just uh like you say they they [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] you know are are being given offers elsewhere and some of them I think are even coming to the US if we can get them you know rather than let them uh go to one of those third world countries [speaker002:] right um-hum um-hum um-hum well I think the US is eventually going to have to step in I mean you've got this you know big country that's now uh pretty much uh in chaos because uh I mean the all the things that's split up and they've got the nuclear arsenal to you know pretty much eliminate the rest of the world and uh they've asked for US support and I think the US is going to have to give in [speaker001:] well I'm all for them providing as you know as much support as we can at the same time you know it's time for us I think as a country to run us you know the rest of the world really is not our responsibility [speaker002:] because yeah um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] it's good for us to look after our own best interests even in uh you know an international way but at the same time we I don't think that we have the resources to bale out the entire Soviet Union [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum no I don't think as far as bail out goes I'm thinking more on the sense of uh um helping them take the infrastructure they have and putting it to use I mean they've got a good infrastructure there I mean they at one time were you know they they were a threat to the US I mean they had the weapons ability they had the manufacturing capability [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I think it's all kind of disorganized right now [speaker001:] you know the amazing thing about about it is how these people who've been operating for you know seventy generations under a uh uh you know the the protectorate protectorate of the the government over them that they really don't even have a concept of what capitalism is [speaker002:] right um-hum yeah yeah [speaker001:] and and and as a matter of fact I'm not a guy with my company was in Moscow several weeks ago and I asked him what it was like and he said you know he said they start drinking vodka at ten o'clock in the morning [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum yeah yeah yeah I wish there was that kind of uh stuff over here it'd be great [speaker001:] but uh anyway it's uh uh I don't know there there just [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] they've got a really uh different outlook and a different mentality than uh uh people than have anybody that has been accustomed to living uh under any form of capitalism and it's going to take quite a while for them to to realize that uh [speaker002:] um-hum hm um-hum yeah yeah

[speaker001:] did they say anything [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] I guess we got ten minutes or something like that I don't know [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] so what do you think [speaker002:] um I think they should do it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I I do because um with all all the sports you know and everything they're doing there and also because whenever you're dealing with drugs like if you if you are on drugs then that affects the way you work and everything [speaker001:] um-hum I agree but I think they're slow in testing you know I don't know [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] about yours but mines they so slow they tested some people twice three times and some people haven't been tested at all [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well see um and I worked for a steel mill the past two summers [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I had to go through you know a physical and everything and before they even told you you were hired like they just called me in for an interview and I went in for my interview and then right there he said okay go down to the company hospital and you'll go through a physical so you know I mean it was really good that way because they they tested everyone right away [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and you didn't you didn't have any notice you know so like if you were doing drugs then like you didn't have a way you know to stop I mean it was still in your body [speaker001:] yeah yeah I like that I know when I I was in that like in the service and we didn't have we used to have to go every other month or whenever [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] to uh just do do we called it the golden flow but and they did random drug testing just because you know Uncle Sam but I've always thought that they were slow as far as outside of the government you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] because I've always I'm I'm use to it [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] it's no big deal [speaker002:] yeah well see you know I well [speaker001:] I guess if you're not doing anything it's no big deal people call it invasion of privacy not to me it's not because first of all if you're not doing anything they're not invading anything [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know and if you're taking medication from a doctor that's no big deal either [speaker002:] yeah because like what [speaker001:] because then they'll or you have a prescription [speaker002:] yeah you know what too whenever they did that for me like you know we had to take they did it blood and urine and um they they gave you a paper right there and they said if you were out drinking or if you went out for a good time last night go ahead and write down that you did have beer or you did have alcohol or if you are on medicine go ahead and write down what medicine you are on [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] okay but I you know so they allotted for you know things like that like you know people didn't know they were being tested well you might have had a drink last night you know and that would show up too [speaker001:] yeah yeah well see they don't do a blood test to us they just do a urine test which I think they should do a a blood test because then that tells them that you know they testing for drugs but I think it's like I tell and then you know they have all this smoking stuff why don't they just test for alcohol because that's between drugs and alcohol that's it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] that's the biggest killer there is I think they should do both of them [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know because then that that way they'll they'll get rid of they can help the alkies and then they can help the people that's on drugs [speaker002:] yeah and then uh it got you know it got backfired on a lot of kids too because a lot of kids [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] um like you know like somehow they missed the physical or something [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know and they wrote down that they uh weren't but then they went back and they checked them like maybe a week after they were working and if they had drugs in their body I mean they were fired on the spot there was no ifs ands or buts about it [speaker001:] oh oh yeah [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um-hum I that's all right [speaker002:] yeah yeah I think this way too because in that steel mill I mean someone [speaker001:] and see some people always talk about the kind of job you do [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but it would that wouldn't be fair if they tested just people with strenuous jobs [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because you know you you got your your your pilots and your your air traffic controllers your nurses your doctors [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] yes I would want all those people checked but then you got your bus drivers your truck drivers are checked because my husband drives a truck they he has to pass a physical [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know but I think why don't they and and to me it's wrong to check just the people that you think are affecting the public [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] why not just check everybody so [speaker002:] yeah yeah see they checked everyone in the mill too and then that was hard because you know someone would come in and they had a problem well then if I like some of the jobs I was doing was very dangerous you know we were working with that steel that's thousands of degrees hot and I would have to cover for him you know like I would have to do two jobs for someone just because they they think they're being smart or something [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know and I mean they even had um the the higher up management people would even come in periodically and have unexpected checks you know [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] so it was really good you know they were checking you know visually and uh with the blood and the urine tests [speaker001:] well that's all right [speaker002:] yeah I thought it was really good [speaker001:] because they check our bosses and everything and I think that's the way it should be if they going to check you know that way you can't stay well they didn't check my boss you know yeah they checked him too so everybody's getting checked it's not like it's just little peons it's everybody [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah yes right [speaker001:] and that that's the way I think they should do it that way it is random you know it's random because some people is already gone two three times and some people ain't went at all [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and they just when your number comes up your number comes up [speaker002:] yeah right and then uh they checked us like once during the middle of the summer also [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know like it's not like they just like well then the second time when I got hired I knew what was coming you know so then they checked us again in the middle of the summer [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I thought that was really good too I don't I [speaker001:] well I think if you're doing something really bad it's going to show up [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know [speaker001:] yeah I don't think you can hide certain drugs [speaker002:] no I think it what is it like I know even even like steroids well how long does it take for marijuana to get out of your body [speaker001:] that's thirty days [speaker002:] see so there still [speaker001:] they said it was thirty days but on one of my our our thing is they said that you'd have to the way the test is you'd have to really be smoking for it to show up and I don't think that's right [speaker002:] oh really I thought it would show up with no matter what amount we [speaker001:] that's what he told that's what they tell you but I think it is I think it'd show up no matter what if you doing it then it's going to show up [speaker002:] yeah and and steroids I mean that kind of drug that's a lot longer [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that takes a lot longer to get out of your body [speaker001:] I think they should check everybody everywhere that's working because see they got this and that's just like even all the football players yeah I think they ought to check them because you get kids looking up to them and here they are strung out on drugs what good is that you know that's not good [speaker002:] that's right yeah and even and even uh I don't know sometimes I think they should even check the the music you know the entertainment [speaker001:] oh yeah because the the [speaker002:] with with uh the movie stars and and the singers and everything [speaker001:] yeah because they get strung out too [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they're no different [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but I guess you know that's they contract they don't [speaker002:] and they're out winning awards you know and then and then the younger kids think they're great and everything [speaker001:] but yet and then they're strung out on drugs secretly [speaker002:] exactly [speaker001:] you know they go off because they have a drug problem [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] huh-uh that's not right [speaker002:] yeah you know what I think's I bunch of bull too is whenever um they um really you know like nationwide or you know popular people they do have a problem and they come out and they say they're having the problem so then they get more publicity because they admitted they have a problem and they're trying to fix it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well what about the Joe Shmoe who's an alcoholic and he's trying to fix it you know but he's not getting any [speaker001:] he they're not testing him because they only testing for drugs [speaker002:] yeah right [speaker001:] and I think they should test for alcohol [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] because we have some alkies too boy you can smell it on they breath you know it's bad when you can smell alcohol on somebody but there's nothing you can do because they not drunk but you know they drink constantly to get that breath smell [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] you know but I said no they they getting on the smokers and stuff but I think I because like I told one guy I says smokers don't kill people in a wreck from being smoking [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] you know drunk people kill people from being drunk [speaker002:] that's true I never thought of it that way but that's true [speaker001:] so why are you know why don't they just to me they ought to just do the blood test for alcohol [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and I said they'll have more people then [speaker002:] yeah oh definitely [speaker001:] I mean you know I can understand like on a Monday [speaker002:] yeah but then you can look at it there too well alcohol's legal [speaker001:] yeah but so is cigarettes [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know so why charge me more [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so you know drugs is not is is is not legal some of them are [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] and some people are addicted to prescription drugs [speaker002:] exactly yeah [speaker001:] and so what's the difference [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know they still got a drug habit but they're legal [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] they got a drug problem but it's legal you know it's like huh-uh huh-uh no they need they need some help too [speaker002:] uh-huh um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] because they check those and I know one girl she was on some kind of medication but see they didn't bother her because she had a prescription [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but I mean what if she was hooked on them you know [speaker002:] that's true [speaker001:] how they going to know just because she has a prescription [speaker002:] how are you going to tell if she's hooked on them you'd have to take her off them you know some people I mean that's they they they go off them and they they're going to die [speaker001:] um-hum yeah so you need to to me if they going do a they need to keep checking like if somebody's got some drugs in they system [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it's all prescription it's fine but what kind of drug is it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know and then how long are they supposed to take it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] if they people have prescriptions for Valium but they're not supposed to take Valium twenty four hours a days you know all the time that's for if they have a problem [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and and then see that way you'll find out if they have a problem because if they keep taking it they have a problem [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] or they wouldn't keep taking them [speaker002:] uh-huh and then also after you know they can find out whenever their prescription ends and then find out you know how long it will take for that to be out of their system and then test them again [speaker001:] and test them again and see if they have it again [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] um-hum because you know they don't give you a whole bunch of them pills [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] because they gave my husband some when his mother passed but that was for like to calm him down [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know but see now they're gone [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I think they gave him like four pills no and then that was it [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] uh-huh but see now they they would be out of his system but if he was to be tested

[speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I don't believe that we're, [speaker002:] So what do you think about, uh, recycling programs in Atlanta, Julie? [speaker001:] [Breathing] The recycling program here is just terrible. I mean it's hard to find places to go. I mean, Kroger does a couple things. They, I don't think they, do they do newspapers? [speaker002:] I don't know, there's, there's big bins out there, I don't know if they ever get [breathing], I, I really don't know what the details are. There should be someplace where you could call and find out. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure there's a place you can call and find out the closest, you know, thing to you, but, I think there should be some kind of curbside service. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That's the only way I could really, [speaker001:] The one in Florida is so cool because they pick up everything. They pick up newspapers and, uh, you know, milk jugs and aluminum and tin cans, you know, like soup comes in and stuff. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] They pick up everything. [speaker002:] During the summers, like the, around where I live the, uh, homeless people see-, I mean, they all have like shopping carts and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] stuff and they're go around and collect cans [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and aluminum and stuff, and so we used to just save them up and then they'd come around and we'd give them to them. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, when, during the winter time I think they, they move south or something [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] so, I don't do that anymore. And the, the recycling at Georgia Tech, like that, uh, outside the, uh, student center [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they never empty those things. [speaker001:] I know it, I know it. [speaker002:] They just overflow. [speaker001:] It piles up. [speaker002:] So what's a guy to do? [speaker001:] [Snorting]. [speaker002:] You know. * Shouldn't this end in a slash? [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I just don't know. [speaker002:] I asked myself. [speaker001:] I just don't know and now they have, like bins and stuff that are a little more convenient because, mean, until seven o'clock, you got to pay to park at the student center, you can't really unload all your stuff. [speaker002:] Really? Huh, oh, yeah, that's true, hadn't thought about that. That is very inconvenient. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Inconvenient, even [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I know it, I know it. [speaker002:] But, uh, so, you do recycle, don't you? [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah, I'm kind of, I'm kind of bad about it. [speaker001:] The, [speaker002:] If I, if see a, s-, if I see a pile of cans or bottles or something [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I'll throw it in there [LAUGHTER], but I don't really, I don't ever take anything. [speaker001:] Well, I mean, it's real, [breathing] you ought to, because the, the, the farmer's market recycles absolutely everything. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And since we go there all the time, I mean [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] But wait [speaker001:] probably at all. [speaker002:] I've never seen you before [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Who are you? [speaker001:] Oh, by the way, may name's Julie. [speaker002:] Yeah, my name's Bill. Well, [speaker001:] Hi. [speaker002:] Hi. [speaker001:] I'm from Atlanta. [speaker002:] Me, too. [speaker001:] Neat. [speaker002:] Crazy. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, well, is there anything else you'd like to share me about your recycling philosophy, Julie? [speaker001:] I just think that everybody ought to do it. [speaker002:] Do they do like, what about, like, uh, what kind of plastic stuff can you recycle, do you know? [speaker001:] The only thing I know that you can recycle is milk jugs. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] What about like those grocery bags? [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, they have, uh, [breathing] uh, what I, what I used to, uh, now that I don't go to the grocery store much, it's kind of moot, but I used to just save up the ones that I got one time [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and then go and hand them to them the next time and use them over and over. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] A-, but, also most places, like Big Star does and I'm not sure if Kroger does or not but, [speaker002:] They'll ask you whether you want bags or paper or plastic. [speaker001:] Yeah, and they, they have like little, little boxes that you can put your old bags in. [speaker002:] uh. [speaker001:] Can bring them in. [speaker002:] Those petroleum products are going to kill us. [speaker001:] I know it, I know it. [speaker002:] The hostile planet, I think, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Julie. [speaker001:] It really is a small, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] hostile planet [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] The petroleum pretty much, I mean, those petroleum products I think are the big, uh, you know [speaker001:] Did you know that, [speaker002:] the great Satan of the recycling. [speaker001:] No, really not. Did you know that, like, something like fifty percent of the world's landfills is like paper? [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] Filled with paper. [speaker002:] Paper just seems so innocuous. [speaker001:] Huh? [speaker002:] Paper doesn't seem threatening at all, you know. [speaker001:] Well, it is, it is, though. [speaker002:] It comes from trees. How can it be bad? [speaker001:] It is, because they, [speaker002:] They treat it with chemicals or something? Why can't trees break down? I don't get it. [speaker001:] Well, they do treat paper with chemicals like yellow paper, you know [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] takes something like twenty times as long to decompose. [speaker002:] Oh [faint]. [speaker001:] You know, you can bury a piece of yellow paper, it will still be there in a couple of weeks. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] Yeah [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] it will be whole. You'll be able to read [speaker002:] I'm going to switch [speaker001:] off of it. [speaker002:] from those yellow legal pads, then. [speaker001:] Yeah, um. [speaker002:] I'm glad you told me that, because I use those at work, where I work and, uh, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But I can just [speaker001:] W-, [speaker002:] forget that from now on. I'm going u-, I'm going to switch to the white ones. [speaker001:] Well, white paper's bad too. They, they treat it, too. [speaker002:] Well, what about, uh, papyrus, you know, made out of bam-, you know, bamboo stuff, from the [speaker001:] I'm sure that's fine. [speaker002:] from the [speaker001:] I'm sure. [speaker002:] banks of the Nile. [speaker001:] Maybe we ought to just start carving in stone again. [speaker002:] You think so? [speaker001:] Maybe. [speaker002:] Tablets? [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I think we should just abandon the, you know, the written word [speaker001:] You think? [speaker002:] altogether, you know. [speaker001:] I don't know, well, I mean, [speaker002:] What do you think? [speaker001:] I think we've kind of, you know, I mean, everybody, everybody [speaker002:] Kind of radical, I know but, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] everybody has a computer. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] We would no longer need [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] paper at all. [speaker002:] Everyone had a two way wrist watch T V -s on their wrist, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] like, uh, Dick Tracy. [speaker001:] I would love that.

[speaker001:] I have trouble uh coming up with things that actually I've considered invasion of privacy and perhaps it's because I've become so accustomed to the fact that that's the way technology works [speaker002:] life is yeah well you know there's something that um I really find kind of maybe it's not an invasion of privacy but it's kind of annoying [speaker001:] what's that [speaker002:] um you know phone calls uh automated [speaker001:] oh gosh yes yes [speaker002:] you know I mean I I find that really offencing or offensive [speaker001:] I suppose that it's an invasion in that they know where you are and and [speaker002:] yeah and they don't stop I mean they you know you call and it it could be any time of the day and and what happens is is they'll call especially especially those computer ones [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] they'll call and and they don't you can't get them off the line you'll hang up and you pick it up a minute later and they'll still be on there [speaker001:] oh seriously I've never had that experience [speaker002:] yes I just had you know that just happened a couple day of I guess it's kind of fresh in my mind because this happened a couple of days ago I'd picked up the phone and it's you know they started talking giving me all this spiel and then you know you try to hang up because there's there's nobody to talk to there's only just um [speaker001:] that seems unusual [speaker002:] and you hang up and then you pick up to make a phone they're still on there [speaker001:] you know that almost seems dangerous because what if you picked up the phone to call nine one one or something and you [speaker002:] I know I know that is [speaker001:] I wonder if that was a problem in their system that doesn't seem like it should work that way [speaker002:] yeah but uh as far as privacy uh invasion of privacy I there really you know I guess I'm kind of like you I don't really find it [speaker001:] haunting you [speaker002:] there isn't a whole lot that I feel like it's a invasion of privacy of privacy um [speaker001:] I used to be concerned that everyone no matter what the creditor always wanted to know your social security number but then I figured well they're [speaker002:] oh I know [speaker001:] they all have to link it back to some number that that only you have and so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] everyone in the world that I've you know dealt with on a commercial basis probably has that number and that's just the way it is [speaker002:] yeah well the I guess you know there's um [speaker001:] they have access to all your records [speaker002:] I I guess I don't think about that very often because it it has become the norm you know um [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum if you wanna use credit you have to pay the price and that's [speaker002:] yeah and you they find everything I mean they find out everything about you they want to know your you know where you live what you do what you know and some of the questions yeah and some of the [speaker001:] um-hum that's probably why you have gotten those calls because they know that you're one of those people who um are in a I don't know income bracket or something but who has disposable income that's why they're after you [speaker002:] uh-huh yes you know sometimes that does happen you know sometimes they they would you know somebody would call on the phone and and uh you know you think it's just uh regular type questions but really they are kind of prying into your to your life you know you [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] they wanna know uh where you live how long you been living there [speaker001:] do you own do you rent [speaker002:] do you own do you rent you know what time of the days they're usually home what uh you know and sometimes you know you just kind of go through the routine of giving it out and then you think about it afterwards [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] why do they need all that you know [speaker001:] yeah I generally don't you know when you buy a new product how the um warranty card always asks your level of income [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] and it usually says optional so I I rarely fill it I I don't think I ever fill it out frankly but uh they they wanna know they would like to come back and [speaker002:] uh-huh right oh yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] see whether or not you're gonna buy another product [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] interesting [speaker002:] but um [speaker001:] that's how marketing works today I think [speaker002:] I guess it is I'm I'm in that area so it's uh [speaker001:] are you [speaker002:] well I'm yeah I'm in sales so I [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you always kind of uh you know it I know that when we when I sell a product to a new customer that's always the first thing that I ask you know is about their credit and you know would they have to fill out a little credit application with with us and and sometimes I feel very uncomfortable in in doing that [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum really huh [speaker002:] um you know but I know that in order for our company to survive we can't you know uh [speaker001:] oh yeah you don't wanna take risks [speaker002:] don't wanna take the risks so [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um I I suppose some of those uh [speaker001:] do you personally look at those credit uh references or is there someone else who does that [speaker002:] you know that's that's the funniest thing is be rare I mean maybe one out of ten do we check on it yeah you know but it's kind of a routine type thing where you just do it and and you file it away and uh [speaker001:] someone else in your company does that um-hum [speaker002:] you know at random we'll we'll go ahead and check on it but um it's not [speaker001:] um-hum oh really so there isn't someone who every time does it just not you [speaker002:] no huh-uh [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so you know I just gather the information and and somebody else uh you know at their leisure time uh will check on those credit references but [speaker001:] but most of them are checked on routinely just by someone else [speaker002:] yeah most of them are yeah most of them are but they're not all you know they're not all done at the same time [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh that makes sense [speaker002:] and um you know I I wonder about credit uh

[speaker001:] okay so what do you think [speaker002:] well I believe in capital punishment um and I I think the way that I understand the laws right now they are only for certain crimes um I'm not sure exactly what they are I think rape and uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] capital murder [speaker001:] yeah the person gets killed you know [speaker002:] oh yeah that would be a capital crime yeah [speaker001:] yeah something like that but my problem with capital murder capital punishment is they don't carry it out [speaker002:] yeah I agree they [speaker001:] so if they're going to have it to me they ought to do it [speaker002:] I agree they uh [speaker001:] you know they people people been sitting like they had on 2020 or 48 Hours one of them they had them on the man was twenty years waiting on death row [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] see that don't make no sense [speaker002:] yeah I think that we waste a lot of money keeping people in prison [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that uh is not necessary [speaker001:] and now I think they ought to increase it to all these drug dealers [speaker002:] yeah have you ever been on a jury [speaker001:] huh-uh [speaker002:] I haven't either but and I you know I I have real strong beliefs in capital punishment but when it comes right down to it yeah I I'm wondering though [speaker001:] they're not going to do it that's my biggest problem is even if you give them the death penalty they appeal it and appeal it and appeal it and there's you know [speaker002:] right but what if they're not guilty [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] what if they're not guilty [speaker001:] what do you mean what have been [speaker002:] what if they truly are not guilty and they're convicted anyway [speaker001:] that's the whole system though isn't it [speaker002:] yeah see that's what [speaker001:] there are a lot of people that aren't guilty that's in jail [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but you know uh I I I don't know about if you if they was like capital murder and then if they were married then what would you do [speaker002:] yeah I don't know you know like I said said I do believe in capital punishment but if I were sitting on a jury and had to make the decision I wouldn't want to have to be the one to make it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and I do agree that they keep people that we spend too much money keeping people in prison the jails are overcrowded if they're going to do well you know let's do it [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] do it and get it over with [speaker001:] I don't know if I could I could probably it depends on the crime my problem would be that like people to me the like the child people the people that's killing kids [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh the ones messing with old people [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] those type of people now I I have no pity for them [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know but just like if a man and wife is fighting and he kills her that he shouldn't die because it might been accident or you never know what you know what what they done went through together should I say [speaker002:] yeah but I don't know if they if they if uh the death penalty [speaker001:] I don't think they give them the death penalty if given today anyway [speaker002:] yeah yeah I don't think they give it to just [speaker001:] I think they just put them in jail and let them think about it [speaker002:] yeah for a long time [speaker001:] so I don't know [speaker002:] uh I definitely think anyone that kills somebody should be in jail I don't think everybody that kills somebody should die [speaker001:] yes die because it all depends [speaker002:] so under the circumstances [speaker001:] there's a lot of circumstance sometimes I even feel like and up in another state I think it was Ohio where they don't have uh self-defense laws and I think that's wrong [speaker002:] is it I I'm from I've lived in Ohio and I didn't realize that [speaker001:] yeah they had them on the news this lady her husband she was seven I'll never forget it because she was seven months pregnant and he hit her in the stomach and then tried to cut her throat [speaker002:] um oh my gosh [speaker001:] well she shot him and she went to prison she you know she killed him but she lost her baby and then they sent her to jail so that's not right [speaker002:] um huh-uh [speaker001:] they she's nothing should have happened to her at all he shouldn't have hit her in the stomach I don't care [speaker002:] well see he shouldn't have been trying to slit her throat anyway [speaker001:] but he did both [speaker002:] yeah well I wonder why did they say why [speaker001:] well he was he he she was abused woman he was he was a a what do you call it abuser he would he would beat his wife all the time [speaker002:] oh so there was a history of that [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] so she's not going to get to have her baby [speaker001:] she no she lost the baby [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] he hit her in the stomach with the shovel [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] it's just you know things like that that you know I don't think those women or even a man because a man they had a woman man that his wife shot him but he didn't die [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh they put her in jail now I don't think anything should happen to him but I think she should stay in there because really she just did it because she wanted to get out the marriage and she wanted all his property [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] see I think that's wrong too but I don't [speaker002:] cheaper than a divorce [speaker001:] no she she wouldn't have got no property see there was no grounds for divorce she was she wanted out cause she had a boyfriend and it was weird but uh the capital punishment I don't know actually what they give the death penalty for [speaker002:] yeah um [speaker001:] the only thing I I know they give it for is shooting a killing a cop or you know assassination of the President and and something big you know [speaker002:] yeah I think capital crimes uh capital crimes and I want to say kidnap I don't know why kidnapping sticks in my mind but um [speaker001:] uh-huh I don't know [speaker002:] yeah I think they should give it to them but I don't think they should keep them waiting in jail and let having us pay for it for twenty years [speaker001:] no if they going to give it to them I think they should go ahead you know okay maybe a year or you know like that two years whatever but twenty years ten years on death to me that's worse for them too [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they're not they don't know when they going to die they know they got the death penalty but that don't mean nothing not anymore [speaker002:] well I I assume that you live in do you live in Texas [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I think Texas is very uh one of the leading states I mean I think Texas executes more people than just about any other state [speaker001:] I don't know they don't they don't put it on the news or they don't broadcast it because you know the I guess they don't just don't [speaker002:] well they they they they don't sensationalize it anymore they used to make a big deal out of it every time it happened [speaker001:] uh-huh oh yeah all the people for right uh life or something [speaker002:] and I think now that it happens more frequently than we know that it's just not sensationalized as much at least in Texas because I hear every once in a while I'll hear something on the news [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] I [speaker001:] but I think they going to have to do something to make people wake up like on especially the drug dealers you know the the not the little penny ante ones on the corner I don't think they ought to get in trouble I mean I know they ought to get in trouble I'm not they ought to get in trouble but not not death because see they you know we're to me what they ought to do if they can find the big man [speaker002:] but they ought to get yeah I was [speaker001:] because see that's where it's coming from to me it it's coming in here some kind of way I don't care what anybody tells me people tell me I said if the government really want to I think it's all government something to do with the government I really do [speaker002:] they [speaker001:] because if you can stop uh Cuban cigars from coming you can't buy anything Cuban in the United States so why can't they stop anything illegal [speaker002:] yeah hum [speaker001:] you know if they really wanted to I think they could they just don't want to put there's too much money people's been bought out you know and that's what's wrong with some of the kids on the street [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they you can't blame just like the man says he can make two five hundred dollars a day for just taking a bag somewhere [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and his mom is not getting that much money [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] you know if you think you think about all the kids in the ghetto my mom would probably kill us but but uh you know it's something that has to be done to me if they bring kids into it because now kids are killing and so they going to have to do something with the death penalty or to scare these people I think that's the whole thing they're not scared they know they're not going anywhere [speaker002:] yeah well yeah I mean when when you think about it yeah when you think about how many people die from drugs you know ultimately [speaker001:] uh-huh innocent people not just the drug people I'm talking about innocent people when they have they little drive by shootings and and and see because I'm from Los Angeles [speaker002:] oh yeah um [speaker001:] see originally I've been in Texas twelve thirteen years but originally in LA they people die all the time just from being in the way at the wrong place you know see you know but I think something should be done for them [speaker002:] yeah um yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] I agree [speaker001:] but I don't know too much about the death penalty [speaker002:] I think that that they have much I like that they've changed it to lethal injection rather than you know the electric chair or gas [speaker001:] yeah but they don't use that no more [speaker002:] no they don't [speaker001:] they use the the injection thing or whatever it is [speaker002:] yeah I think that's a lot more humane than uh than the electric chair than the than the gas or the gas [speaker001:] uh-huh it's funny because I had listened to a comedian talk about the death penalty you know about people saying they they don't have nobody to do this and I said well if somebody killed my husband just because I'll pull the switch I'll even do you know to me if if that person can forgive them fine but what is that man going to do next is he going to go out and kill somebody else [speaker002:] kill right [speaker001:] you know how many times is it going to take for this man to kill people before you kill him [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] now you know sometimes I can understand maybe if they robbed something they didn't mean to do it okay but how many times you going to go by that how many times you going to this person keep killing so I don't know [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] I guess if you stay out of trouble you don't have you worry about it but [speaker002:] well it's like you said though sometimes people just get caught up in it innocently but [speaker001:] uh-huh so I think it just I think it depends on the circumstances and how many times that person has been in trouble I mean really big trouble [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] you know so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but that's all I got to say [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and it is nice talking to you all righty [speaker002:] well it's nice talking to you I'll have to start doing this again some more I I don't know what I've tried it several times with [speaker001:] oh it's fun I call

[speaker001:] Hi, this is Judy, I'm from Maryland [NOISE] and I'm in California visiting right now. [speaker002:] Hi, Judy. This is Norma, and I live in Virginia [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] We got a great topic [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I know. I'm sitting here going oh, dear [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Should we give it a try? [speaker002:] I guess we might as well [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Okay [LAUGHTER]. Okay. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Well, um, so [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Let you start [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] So, so what changes have you seen? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] What changes, uh, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I guess the biggest, I don't know your age Judy, but, uh, in my lifetime the biggest is in more women working, [speaker001:] Well, actually, [speaker002:] definitely. [speaker001:] that's what I was thinking too. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, um, you know, just to jump ahead a little bit but then we can back up. Is it, perhaps, woman in politics is for the future. [speaker002:] For the fut-, well, yeah. [speaker001:] Because I don't see that really yet in positions of power, really. [speaker002:] Right. I don't see them in positions of power in corporation either [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] not many. [speaker001:] That's true. That's true. Um, do you work in private corporation or government? [speaker002:] I did work in government. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And before that I worked in a bank for eight years. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And now I'm retired. [speaker001:] Oh, you, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That's the best status. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] Yes, um, I don't, I see, um, and, [speaker002:] Which do you work in, excuse me? [speaker001:] A government. [speaker002:] A government. [speaker001:] And I work in academia before. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, um, actually there's one, um, woman in our, I don't know what you'd call it, uh, institute who is a manager and, I mean, in a since, perhaps, um, a lot of, she gets protected a lot because it's almost like a token. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] And, and it's sort of unfortunate because, I think that they don't accept her technically and, but she's a good paper pusher. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And it's in a technical position really. And you know she should be more technical for what she does. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And I think that's sort of unfortunate, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] because it doesn't, it doesn't really help the cause in the long run [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But, um, you know, I don't know. And, and teaching I still see that that's where most of the woman are. [speaker002:] In teaching. [speaker001:] In teaching. And, you know, and it's always been that way. [speaker002:] But not at the college level. [speaker001:] Right. Not, well, [speaker002:] We live in a college town and I worked at the university for a while. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And there are, there are woman there but they're not the high paid [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Not department, [speaker002:] professors that, [speaker001:] chairmen. [speaker002:] the men are [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Not the deans and things like that. [speaker002:] Well, they did have one woman dean but, and I guess she, she probably did very well but that's the minority. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Um, and do you think it's because women aren't qualified or, or just don't, or don't want the job or just aren't hired for the jobs. [speaker002:] None of the above [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I think they are extremely well qualified. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, I don't know how, [speaker001:] They're just not selected somehow. [speaker002:] I think they're not selected, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, of course, at this university, uh, this, it's a big engineering school and I don't think there are many women in the engineering college. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And that's where the high pay is. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. But I'm wondering how many women actually major in engineering. Act-, but, you know, I say that but yet I know too. [speaker002:] Quite an, well, I think there are more than there used to be. [speaker001:] Yeah, I'm sure there are, yeah. [speaker002:] But they may not go into teaching, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean, the two that I know obviously are not in teaching but, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] um, it's, it-, I suppose in a since I was surprised when they told me they majored in engineering. I don't know why. I, but I don't know that many men that have majored in engineering, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] either. I mean it's just, because I'm in the humanities it's just, [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] You know, it's not, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] it's not something that I tend to hear about. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But, um, yeah, it's a, [speaker002:] Well, I met one one day that, uh, had just joined the faculty in agricultural engineering and that really surprised me. [speaker001:] Oh, that's interesting, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I, I suppose that, that it's difficult to really say why because, uh, you know, there, there probably are a limited number of women who are interested in the subject and well qualified. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And maybe there aren't, you know, [LAUGHTER]. Maybe they don't apply for the job. [speaker002:] I don't know. I don't, I don't know how many go on and get a P H D in engineering. [speaker001:] Right. Right. Which could be, you know, part-, partially cultural anyway. [speaker002:] That could be. That's true. [speaker001:] So that it might be circularly being the same problem of, of expecting not to get hired for the good jobs anyway, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so why spend your time getting qualified. [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] It's a, it's a rough [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It's a rough, a rough situation. Um, and I guess what I, what, ama-, amazes me is the number of men who are willing to stay home with the kids or and, in our case we actually have one father who works part-time, a six, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] hour day so that he can take the kids, kids or kid, I'm not sure, [speaker002:] That's interesting, [speaker001:] to school in the morning and be home when the children or child, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] comes home in the afternoon. [speaker002:] Is it, uh, was she the major wage earner, [speaker001:] This is, uh, [speaker002:] I mean, did she earn more money that he did or [speaker001:] Well, see, [speaker002:] you know. [speaker001:] I don't know anything about the family but, but, yeah, I would imagine she might. Um, because he's, you know, he's a really nice guy but he did say that because he was in the humanities and he's now working in more of a technical situation that he had trouble finding a job. [speaker002:] Oh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] So that maybe he, you know, maybe she was more qualified. But, but still it's interesting that, you know, he, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] he's been doing this evidently for a, a good number of years. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And, uh, but it's unusual. [speaker002:] Uh, I know one, uh, gal that's, she's a C P A, and her husband is a house husband. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah I, [speaker002:] And then they had a child and he, he was still the house husband. He wasn't, [speaker001:] Oh, he was, [speaker002:] going to, [speaker001:] even before they had children. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Even before that, right. [speaker001:] Oh, now that, that really is [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] She was a little perturbed about it. [speaker001:] Oh, she was. [speaker002:] At one time. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I don't know how, she's moved away. I don't know how it is now but I know, uh, we're, we all went out one evening and [lipsmack] after work and, uh, she was, there was an underlying note she was perturbed about it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Yeah, I mean I think that would be, it would, it would strike one as strange if there's no reason for [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] somebody to stay home that, [speaker002:] I don't think there was a valid reason [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. That's true. [speaker002:] Because her statement was, I told him let's face it you're a house husband that's what your going, that's what you'll always be. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But, but yet, you know we have to think about that because if, if she had offered to stay home we wouldn't have thought anything stran-, [speaker002:] She wouldn't have be, that's right. Uh-huh, that's right. [speaker001:] So, so we're, [speaker002:] it would, it wouldn't have been a doubter. [speaker001:] carrying our own prejudice [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Uh-huh. That's true. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah. Oh, gee. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I guess we can't win [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Huh-uh. Oh. [speaker001:] Because if, yeah, if, if somebody does if and breaks tradition you're surprised. But if [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, dear. So, so, [speaker002:] I think maybe more men would like to be if they [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] If they could get away with it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] weren't put down so badly [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, dear. You know, well, uh, I mean it, it's an interesting topic yet I must say it's not one that I've given a great deal of, [speaker002:] Huh-uh. [speaker001:] of thought to but, uh, [speaker002:] No, I didn't. [speaker001:] in the past. It's, um, one of those things that, you know, seems to happen. [speaker002:] How do you feel your career has gone? [speaker001:] I don't, I don't feel for the most part that I've been discriminated against. [speaker002:] You don't. That's good. [speaker001:] No. I was a department chairman. I, but I don't like administration. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] So then I'm, uh, uh, probably a poor example, although, you know, I was an administrator and could still be I suppose. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I was discriminated against very definitely in banking. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It was terrible. [speaker001:] Oh, really. You were, you were more ambitious than they would let you be? [speaker002:] Right. And the money didn't go with the positions. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. Well, I would, [speaker002:] The promotion, promotions came but there wer-, there comparable pay for the responsibility. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] And I was told you don't need as much pay as I have because your children are older than my children, or your husband has a good job and [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, jeez. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, actually in a since I suppose, when I was hired into the government, um, at, I was taken advantage of and, and that's true that, you know, sometimes other people get, get higher increments, [speaker002:] I thi-, uh-huh. [speaker001:] for, you know, even, [speaker002:] I think we, uh, are programmed to just take it [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] as it comes. [speaker001:] Right. That's probably true. I hadn't, I hadn't thought about it because I do like what I do and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, I just sort of ignore the administrative, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] part of it since I didn't like it when, when I had to do it. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So I, I figure, you know, nobody must, uh, nobody must like it. It must be a rotten job for everybody [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But I know some people thrive on it [LAUGHTER]. Oh, gee. Well, since I don't have a whole lot more to say on the topic. [speaker002:] I don't,

[speaker001:] okay have you had to return anything lately that you've bought [speaker002:] um no not really I uh I may have had to have a a few minor repairs but I haven't bought anything of any consequences other than clothes and things and I will be in the very near future I'm gonna be buying a big computer and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um one of these eight millimeter camcorders [speaker001:] oh yeah that'll be nice [speaker002:] so I been I been studying these things but uh I haven't had to return too many things I [speaker001:] I haven't either really [speaker002:] I I I try to be very careful when I pick up something and and look it over to make sure that it looks like it's going to to work [speaker001:] right right well I think it's gotten easier nowadays if you have something and you have to return it most most places are willing to you know go with the customer [speaker002:] and I think it really turns down to picking who you want to buy from and I hate to say it but the field electronics devices that I buy the the ones in Japan in generally [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] are much higher quality from working [speaker001:] on uh yeah I know that I know [speaker002:] I mean I hate to admit it but it's true they they they have a higher percentage of uh completely working models that get out to the public [speaker001:] that's true that's true I haven't had to return anything that I can think of but uh you know with like radios and things they've become so cheap that even if they do break it's better just to go get another one than have it fixed [speaker002:] you that's right you you were speaking of that about a week ago I bought myself a new digital watch [speaker001:] you know uh-huh [speaker002:] that was made in China [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] works just fine and it cost me four dollars [speaker001:] yeah uh the stuff like that you know [speaker002:] yes it's amazing isn't it [speaker001:] yeah and I you know like television and stereos and things they're a lot cheaper if they're Japanese made [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] you know I've I've gotten to the point where I think so but um I've had to return um I think a television one time and um uh the color went out but and it was like a month later and I didn't have any problem whatsoever which I think is good but [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] you know years ago you didn't never have to return anything everything worked for so long [speaker002:] that's right and and and that's been really um way it's been for me for the last five or six years that I returned a TV set to be repaired but the problem was that uh we had a a lightning storm and [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] the lightning flashed in through the power and uh hurt something in it so it wasn't the set's fault at all it was just uh one of those circumstances [speaker001:] um-hum well that's not bad at all well this is the first time I've ever gotten anybody outside of Texas [speaker002:] no well I tell you most of my talks are in Texas that's true I but I've been I've been uh talked into um California twice in the last uh week or two [speaker001:] really wow [speaker002:] so it's uh it's nice but but I know how it is if you're gonna take care of Texas you have to live in Texas I suppose [speaker001:] oh my heavens but let's see um I can't think of any other products I've taken back um clothes is about mainly what I've you know gotten lately and I think they've gone downhill [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] as as far as unless you it's you get what you pay for [speaker002:] well we're being filled up with a lot of of stores that have huge quantities of of uh clothes and articles and you know we've got Wal-Marts and Gee Gee Bees and a whole bunch of things and [speaker001:] right um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] I don't know how we can support all of those things and the and and the only way they can stay alive is to buy cheaper products so they can put them on the market cheaper for the public [speaker001:] that's true right [speaker002:] and when that happens more of those products are likely to have uh inferior working ability and that's when you have to start returning them [speaker001:] yeah yeah I agree with you it's kind of hard for the small man [speaker002:] so yeah [speaker001:] to make it you know with the the homemade thing [speaker002:] that's right and I I I have a friend who does make uh beautiful furniture but he has to charge twice as much when you go to a store [speaker001:] you know um-hum right [speaker002:] if it looks beautiful and it's well made but people can't afford it [speaker001:] wow that's pretty interesting [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] hum let me think of something else here [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] um I can't that's the only thing I can think of is clothes you know and and they're going up so high if you want a well made you know piece of clothing or in matter of fact furniture also you know you have to go you have to pay a lot more it's the old adage you get get what you pay for [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] but um you know and you can get oh I know I bought a real cheap couch one time and it looked good but it was cheap and it didn't last very long you know [speaker002:] do you [speaker001:] I think the frame of it wasn't really good because it was probably mass produced [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] you know [speaker002:] actually I had some uh I bought a water softener for my home [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I didn't have to return it but it didn't work well and I finally I finally had to have the company come out and to check it out so I did have that problem [speaker001:] uh-huh hum [speaker002:] and it was a matter I think it was more of the installation was part of the problem than the machine itself [speaker001:] do you have a problem with your water heater [speaker002:] if you

[speaker001:] Well Amy it's been, uh, kind of overcast today and cloudy. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] We have, our, I have a son in kindergarten, he was having a kite day, [speaker002:] Oh, boy. [speaker001:] and I was really worried about it raining because it has, there's been some dark clouds and it's been, um, [lipsmack] and it's been pretty rainy [speaker002:] Yeah [speaker001:] looking. [speaker002:] I've been trying to put weed spray on the lawn for the whole week and you can't put it on if it's suppose to rain within forty-eight hours, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and so I keep hearing the forecast it's going to rain, it's going to rain, it's going to rain, but it really hasn't rained [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I know it just [speaker002:] I know. [speaker001:] has that, I, it looks, several times in the last couple of weeks it has looked rainy that day [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and not, not done anything. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And we have a lot of trees in our yard and I probably, they're pretty old, big tall trees, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and so if it's an overcast day then the weather is pretty blah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] Because I really have to catch some sunshine or else I feel like I live in a cave all the time, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I get tired with the ki-, I have two ki-, preschoolers, a three year old and a two year old, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and if it's not nice and they can't go out, it's really the pits [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, I bet. [speaker002:] But I appreciate it [child] when they can at least go play in the backyard for an hour or something, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] That makes a big difference [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but I, uh, we're kind of new to Plano and I'm working on a carnival that's going to be in a couple of weeks for our school and I'm thinking that this has been [child] pretty, you know, rainy season, and it's been kind of scary, it's kind of been sc-, cloudy every day, and [children], [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I thought, well, I'm just not anxious to have worry about the weather. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, my three and half year old, he really wants [children] to have the pool out in the backyard [LAUGHTER], you know [speaker001:] Well, yeah. [speaker002:] any day, I mean all Winter long [LAUGHTER] he's been wanting a pool in the backyard. So, I'm hoping, you know, that, it just seems like the weather around here goes so quickly from being Winter to, you know, muggy, and hot, and it's just you never really have like nice cool sixty-five or seventy degree weather with sunshine [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know? I really miss that, I'm from Chicago originally, and I miss the seasons that, you know, that we used to get up there that you just don't have down here. [speaker001:] Well, I know in, um, I'm from Missouri and we always had pretty nice four seasons and, and you know, ex-, we have some extreme weather in each season, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but, uh, I like that and we moved here from Houston in, in, uh, July and everyone kept saying, oh, you're going up north it's not going to be so hot, it's not going to be so humid, [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, that has just not been the case. [speaker002:] Oh, really [speaker001:] It [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] has been, [speaker002:] It's pretty hot here during the Summer [LAUGHTER] [speaker001:] Oh [speaker002:] gosh. [speaker001:] it was extremely hot, I thought I was going to die, my car, I thought it was going die last Summer but, [speaker002:] Do have air conditioning in your car or, [speaker001:] Well, the air conditioning was broke, but broken, I guess it just couldn't handle, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] the stress, and the heat, the record heat, and, you know, I was worried about every time we came to an intersection [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] . [speaker001:] the car started idling rough, you know, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] because [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] of the extreme heat. [speaker002:] Yeah. I know, my husband doesn't have air conditioning in his car and he, when he comes home from work, you know, during the Summer [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] he's just wa-, he feels like he's burning like he's been baking for an hour [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, I know. [speaker002:] Gosh. [speaker001:] That's really awful, but, but I, uh, understand that this is kind of typical for this time of year [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] that rainy season. [speaker002:] What I hate is, I hate having to water so much around here [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, we never used to have to water our lawns [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] you know in Chicago it was always enough rain here and there [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] so here if you don't water it just looks awful. [speaker001:] Brown. [speaker002:] I just hate to spend the money just going down the drain and watering grass, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. That is, that is awful and it, it takes time and the, the kids, they, you have to water your lawn and they want to go out and run in it and get all muddy, [speaker002:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You know, so you're going do I want a di-, a green lawn or a muddy feet [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] in the house. [speaker002:] Yeah, we have a dog too so that adds to it [speaker001:] Oh, no [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] you know, traipse in and out with whatever the weather is like out there so, [speaker001:] Well, I don't know, do, the nice thing I'm looking forward to is, uh, not having a hurricane season. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, because Houston was really hurricane alley, wasn't it, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] weren't there a lot of hurricanes there? [speaker001:] Yes, we always had, uh, big concern about hurricanes, and they're close enough to the coast and, you know, you had to have a supply like, uh, emergency supply on hand all the time [speaker002:] Oh, boy. [speaker001:] during the hurricane season, and, and it was pretty spooky [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, that would be, [speaker001:] because [speaker002:] Gosh. [speaker001:] you always have to think, you know, what's the weather doing, [speaker002:] Keep the weather radio close by and stuff like that? [speaker001:] Right. And do we have enough, you know, um, [lipsmack] food storage, and enough, uh, batteries and [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] all the kinds of things. [speaker002:] Yeah, really, every time I store batteries, I wind up going to use them and they're dead [LAUGHTER] they've been stored so long. [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, boy. [speaker001:] So, [speaker002:] Well, now this is a little bit of relief, although they still have warnings all the time around here for, you know, tornado season [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] hurricanes and stuff, so, [speaker001:] Well [speaker002:] I, [speaker001:] I, yeah, I don't really like tornadoes either, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but, uh, at least there isn't, we fe-, I feel like I got rid of something, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] hurricanes, so, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] not too much of that. [speaker002:] Yeah. Well, I've been worried about mostly with having [child talking] little kids now with taking them out in the Summer and getting them burnt up, I mean I have to keep the sun screen on them just constantly when they go outside [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] because they say it's just so dangerous for little ones to get a bad sunburn [speaker001:] and [speaker002:] so, [speaker001:] it is, and, I just, I can't believe the, the record temperatures that [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] have, were here last Summer that, [speaker002:] a hundred and ten degrees and, [speaker001:] oh, it was just unbelievably hot. [speaker002:] And I can't stand to be outside at all when it's like that, I just don't even want to go out, you know, of the house to get the mail even [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] leave me in the air conditioning. [speaker001:] That is pretty bad. [speaker002:] We had our air conditioning broke, break last [LAUGHTER], last Summer. The switch got something wrong with the switch and we had to call somebody out to fix it, because I couldn't take it more than a few hours without it on. [speaker001:] Oh, I know. I can't imagine. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Even, well, that would, it is just pretty bad, but I guess, um, [lipsmack] I guess the weather hasn't changed too much from here to Houston and, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But it is, like you say coming a little bit further up north. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] It's a little bit nicer to have a Spring and a Fall season, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] where you have some pleasant weather everyday where you can feel like you just want to open your windows and, [speaker002:] Yeah, that's really nice I hate having to leave the house clo-, you know, closed up all the time. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And get some fresh air in the house and, it feels good but, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] but, I guess, [speaker002:] Well, have you been here during the real heavy, heavy rains? I mean I can't remember what time of year, I think it's usually this time of year when we get some, just torrential down pours. [speaker001:] No [speaker002:] Gosh [speaker001:] but I [speaker002:] flooding. [speaker001:] remember, [speaker002:] Our neighbors had flooding, [speaker001:] [Breathing]. [speaker002:] so badly it was like a foot deep in their house last year. [speaker001:] Oh, no. [speaker002:] They had to replace all their carpeting and everything, it was miserable. [speaker001:] Now, that sounds awful. [speaker002:] Yeah. That would not be fun. [speaker001:] Now, I have seen those. I have driven around in the neighborhoods and seen those little flood gauges [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that will be at little yellow signs, it's, you know, has it like from one foot to four foot and I thought I would never buy a house [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh, really. [speaker001:] with a flood gauge down the street. [speaker002:] Oh, gosh, no kidding. Talk about asking for trouble, huh? [speaker001:] Yeah, that would be awful. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] Well, I've got some kids out on the trampoline I need to go look and see what they're doing. [speaker002:] Okay, well, have a good day. [speaker001:] Well, you too. [speaker002:] Thanks. Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] yeah I just bought one so [speaker002:] well that should be interesting okay you ready [speaker001:] yeah guess so [speaker002:] here we go what kind of car did you buy Ralph [speaker001:] uh Mazda [speaker002:] a Mazda how come you got a Mazda [speaker001:] uh price basically [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] price and uh what it all the things it came with for the price I couldn't beat it [speaker002:] you couldn't couldn't find an American built car [speaker001:] uh I didn't really look at American cars uh had a couple bad experiences with American cars [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] just not holding up so uh my last car was a foreign foreign made car and it held up real well and the car before that was American and it fell apart so [speaker002:] I'll be darned [speaker001:] I just decided to go foreign [speaker002:] I've had pretty much the I've had pretty much the opposite experience [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah I generally drive a a large Ford super cab you know like one fifty or something and the one time I traded and got something different I got a little Datsun uh king cab it didn't last eighteen months I had had more trouble with that [speaker001:] really hell it comes to trucks though I would probably think to go American because everybody know has got a American made truck they just seemed to be more rugged but uh the cars just seem to fall apart [speaker002:] yeah I that's that's probably true I'm getting ready to I think I'm going to trade off the super cab and I'm considering going with either one of those four door S10 Blazers a four door Explorer or four door Jeep but I can't decide which one [speaker001:] get out there and test drive [speaker002:] yeah that's about the only thing to do I'm just I I'm looking for uh fuel economy and and durability and I've got to have some high road clearance we got some property and I need to get out in the pasture a lot but I don't need to haul a pickup as much haul around stuff in the pickup as much as I used to we got an old one there at the ranch we use now [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but I just got to have something I can get out in the field and of course that truck is only getting like eight to ten miles a gallon maybe twelve on a good day and that just kills me [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] especially a dollar a gallon or more for gas [speaker001:] I don't know how much going to how much better you're going to get with a Blazer there [speaker002:] well those small ones uh those little bitty ones I'm going to go with the small one with the two wheel drive I don't really I I haven't had a use for four wheel drive tell you the truth they say they're getting eighteen to twenty in them yeah I've got a friend of mine's got a uh he bought a four door Jeep with the positrack rear end instead of the four wheel drive [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] he's getting sixteen to eighteen in town and twenty to twenty two on the road [speaker001:] oh that's not so bad then [speaker002:] no he's not really and he's not he said he's pretty heavy footed he's clipping along at sixty five or so around there when he can get away with it so I think I could probably stand you know twice the gas mileage it wouldn't hurt my feelings a bit I just don't know if I could stand one that small because I'm fairly large and I've always driven a truck or something [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I don't know [speaker001:] yeah I don't know I haven't been in the now ones that you know they look big on the road some of these uh [speaker002:] they don't look too bad I just you know I I have have to get in one to find out I just don't know if I could stand you know being cooped up my wife's got uh three old cars of hers she's never sold a car she's bought she has thirty nine Chevy a fifty three and a sixty seven and anytime I drive any of those I just you know it's like being in a coffin I just feel hemmed in I've got to have something fairly large [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] but I think probably probably my whole problem is going to be trying to find something that will that will blend you know uh fuel economy and and price and uh durability [speaker001:] durability yeah if you got to take it out in the field [speaker002:] you know the little those smaller trucks [speaker001:] yeah they show them jumping over those ramps but hey [speaker002:] yeah I know that's I think it would be fun if you didn't have to pay for the repairs to it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but that's what they don't show you when they get you know when they get them off they show them jumping up and down hills and like that but they don't show you the repairs [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know the front ends impossible to line up on mine last time I lined my Ford front end up it cost me a hundred and ten dollars so I don't know how you getting gas mileage in your Mazda have you had it long enough to know [speaker001:] oh about uh twenty six twenty seven in the city it's a it's a four cylinder and it's kind of a sports coupe guess a little sports car but [speaker002:] you do most of your driving you do most of your driving in the city you do most of your driving in the city [speaker001:] it it does pretty good huh yeah I haven't even had a chance I've only had it for about three months I haven't had a chance to take it out on the road I'll probably be heading down your way in uh oh the end of May end of April I guess when school's out [speaker002:] um well watch it coming down south down when you get through uh round round Georgetown and Roundrock they got a highway patrol that just patrols up and down that thing in those little fast Mustangs [speaker001:] I'll have to keep that in mind because uh [speaker002:] he just he just lives out there he makes his living on the road out there [speaker001:] Roundrock and where [speaker002:] Georgetown Georgetown or Georgetown [speaker001:] Georgetown [speaker002:] on down through Roundrock he just he just patrols up and down through that area now that's a neat little car those little five little five point oh Mustangs the fast ones [speaker001:] oh uh yeah I I wanted to get a Mustang I wanted to get a convertible but the convertibles you know they tack on an extra five six grand [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and it's like I can't see paying that for a for just being able to take the roof down [speaker002:] you can get a sunroof a lot cheaper [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's probably more functional I don't think I had a convertible once in college and it was fun when you know during the warm months but God it was miserable during the winter I don't care what they say [speaker001:] yeah it's like I got and plus the way crime is going around here in the city you know take a knife to it break in [speaker002:] yeah and those convertible tops used to be three hundred dollars I don't know what they are now probably eight probably eight hundred by now [speaker001:] yeah I'm sure they're yeah and you tack on the insurance they can add to it because [speaker002:] if you ever roll one that's pretty much it [speaker001:] insurance yeah [speaker002:] you know that that that that and the windshield post doesn't stop much [speaker001:] I had a friend that rolled a convertible not too long ago it was a BMW totaled the car he walked out of it though [speaker002:] um you don't give those they don't give those BMWs away those are expensive machines um well think we about done our five minutes [speaker001:] all right I got a meeting to get to so [speaker002:] okay good talking to you [speaker001:] great [speaker002:] see you later bye bye [speaker001:] bye

[speaker001:] um in Texas they do have the um capital punishment and um I I just I I'm probably one that has to agree with it too um there're are some things that go on that I just feel that I I just feel that that that that is a need I don't I don't know a lot of people don't feel that way either but I just feel that that [speaker002:] well I don't know how much publicity it's gotten outside of the state but California we just put somebody to death [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um for I think it was a double murder uh to be honest I didn't pay that much attention uh to the details of it um but it had a lot of controversy out here uh basically because in California people like to protest about everything um but I agree I believe that that there are a number of crimes that capital punishment is the best way to go um [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the big disagreement I have is that in California the appeals process uh is so extensive and takes so long that you end up spending a huge amount of money in like ten to fifteen years before you can actually you know put somebody to death for for a crime [speaker001:] yeah yeah that is a consequence yeah [speaker002:] and I mean that's that's ridiculous I mean if you can you know you you the trial is supposed to prove you know within a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty and then they have appeals well that's fine but it shouldn't take more than a few years I mean I should think two or three years maximum you should be able to know and you should be able to either put the guy to death [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] or he's innocent I mean it's if he's guilty for for you know multiple murders or whatever the case may be you know [speaker001:] right um-hum well maybe that's something that needs to be worked on but I I just feel that that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] capital punishment needs to stay within the system not all states have them but I you know was that was that the I'm not sure if that was in was that the man that that claimed he was abused or [speaker002:] yeah he was like um the the the defense the defense they're were giving given was that uh like his mother had had been an alcoholic when when she was pregnant with him and so he he wasn't you know mentally competent or anything else [speaker001:] and that he had some he oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] which is ridiculous and and the court found him competent um and he knew what he was doing and everything else I mean you know it was it was the best defense they could come up with [speaker001:] yeah and how long had he been appealing appealing how long was that [speaker002:] I forget I think it was something like twelve years or something [speaker001:] gosh boy [speaker002:] it was it was something really outrageous [speaker001:] yeah boy well I mean and it seems like it it rarely does happen you know it's not it's not used that often you know at least here in Texas but I think it's something that needs to stay I really do [speaker002:] yeah I think in general uh punishment in the United States is a lot weaker than it should be I mean it needs to be you know it's kind of like the the the justice system in the United States is kind of like the dog poops on the carpet and you wait three months and then you put his nose in it and spank him for it [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know I mean there's there's no connection between the two [speaker001:] right right yeah [speaker002:] I mean you take these you know most of the people who are committing violent crimes most of them not all by any means but you know a large percentage are the kind of people who are living very much day to day in the first place [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um they don't really see past next week much less next year and to say you know well if I kill somebody then a decade from now I might face the punishment [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] that's not real it doesn't have any real impact on them [speaker001:] my sister and I were wondering about this recently because a an old friend of ours in California this just happened about a week ago um her husband just killed her and we're wondering if that has an effect [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] if that if something does capital punishment you know does it happen with that within that uh I don't know [speaker002:] um you you mean would he be put to death for that [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] um largely depends on the circumstances and generally you know from what I understand it's it's only the most brutal types of things usually where it's multiple you know [speaker001:] I think you're right [speaker002:] if if they can say things like you know well he was just you know temporarily insane because of some domestic squabble then [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] you know they'll they'll give him you know twenty years with with parole in in twelve or something like that [speaker001:] yeah yeah and uh I have an uncle that is an attorney that defends uh people on

[speaker001:] what kind of car are you driving now [speaker002:] no I'm well driving a Hyundai Sonata [speaker001:] uh-huh do you like that one [speaker002:] no we like it real well [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah we haven't had the only problem we've had is the valve cover gasket leaking other than that it's been working real good [speaker001:] how long have you had it [speaker002:] uh two years [speaker001:] uh-huh my car that was the main problem I've ever had with it is I guess twice I've had to get the valve cover gasket replaced and once the gasket around the the um oil pan [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] it's uh nineteen eighty two Cutlass Sierra and it still drives pretty well though I had kind of low mileage on it [speaker002:] yeah well this um like I said we've had this for two years and it almost got forty five thousand on it [speaker001:] wow that's a lot of driving [speaker002:] yeah wife does a lot of driving she she uses it a lot and then we have the second vehicle the Nissan pickup [speaker001:] uh-huh I think that um I might've done better to get a pickup for the use that I've put mine to but um I didn't get it I didn't get that I got a car and that's there have been times when I was glad to have a car but most of the stuff I've done has been hauling around and I've been better off to have a pickup [speaker002:] yeah well our next vehicle is going to be a a full size truck well we're kind of getting little [speaker001:] a full size pickup [speaker002:] yeah uh Nissan is just a a mini truck [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it's not real big for a family so [speaker001:] right what do you think you'll get a um step side or a a smooth split side [speaker002:] I'll probably get a fleet side [speaker001:] yeah my daddy use used to always get a step side and because he has cows and the cows he can with a step side you can haul cows in the back because there aren't those humps for the tires [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but this last time he decided to still get a step side even though he couldn't find a step side in the long full length they only had them in the short length [speaker002:] yeah that's that's all they make them in now I think [speaker001:] so he was disappointed in that but he still went with the step side because he thought it was easier to get in and around it and take things off the truck and so on without always having to come out the back [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but he uses it on the farm and he built himself a cow trailer so it he didn't need the length so much anymore [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah like I say like I'm we're kind of moving out in a mini truck and into the full size will be the next one so [speaker001:] do you just use it for your own purposes and hauling your family around [speaker002:] oh yeah plus you know I help friends move here and there and stuff and we kind of getting to the point where it's it's we're going to do a lot of camping and stuff during the summertime and the mini truck just doesn't work very well so [speaker001:] right do you have if you're going to go camping are you going to have to drive you car to take your family camping plus drive the truck [speaker002:] oh no no um the what we'd probably do right now is just use the car and try to put everything in it that we can [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and then later on we're going to try to get a uh camper trailer once we buy a new truck [speaker001:] well even though I could've probably used a truck better the last time around I probably will still get a car the next time around figuring that'll be more useful in the future [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so I don't know I'll probably look for something that has a dealer everywhere I would like to drive [speaker002:] oh yeah I can understand that [speaker001:] that'll be the main criterion [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I guess the Japanese makes though do are starting to have dealers all over though I don't know about how the Hyundai dealer network is [speaker002:] well its pretty good uh we had one and then he closed and now we got another one here right near us so [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] it's it's all right uh like I said the only problem we really had with our car just a valve cover gasket leaking and since they fixed it under warranty it was we haven't had any problem with it [speaker001:] that's true that's a good point I remember a long time ago my folks got a Chrysler but the nearest Chrysler Chrysler dealer to them was over fifty miles away [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and it weren't all that good of a car they had pretty many trouble with it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] pretty much trouble so whenever it would break down and take it back to the dealer they'd have to to nurse it along

[speaker002:] so what are the benefits working for a large organization [speaker001:] gosh I wouldn't know I've never worked for a large organization [speaker002:] uh uh that will make it interesting [speaker001:] well I will take that back I I was in the Air Force for thirteen years I guess that qualifies as a large organization [speaker002:] yeah I I would qualify the U S government as large if not too large [speaker001:] sort of large yeah just a little bit little bit bigger than TI [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] okay I never really counted that as an organization because it's uh [speaker002:] the benefits are funny [speaker001:] yeah the benefits are strange they change every day and uh you don't really have a lot of choice [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] not like TI do you want this or do you want this or do you want this [speaker002:] well we don't have that kind of choice either [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] oh I mean you certain [speaker002:] yeah out here in the real world it's all the same [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] no matter who your employer is [speaker001:] no I mean you have the choice of taking this health insurance or or some other or something like that [speaker002:] uh yeah uh yeah here in the Springs we have a choice of two either an HMO or a company health insurance [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] so there are two [speaker001:] yeah of course I can't say we didn't have a choice if you always wanted to you could uh go out and buy your health insurance [speaker002:] out of your own jeans yes [speaker001:] yeah out of your own jeans and stay a way from the base hospital which is generally what I did [speaker002:] ooh [speaker001:] kind of scary [speaker002:] it was that bad huh [speaker001:] uh I I never fully trusted them the only time I ever went there was when I had to for a flight physical or something uh which has to be their doctor but they're not doing anything to me other than testing me so I let them do that [speaker002:] well there are other benefits with the military [speaker001:] well I don't I [speaker002:] that the civilians don't get [speaker001:] yeah I don't I don't I don't bad mouth the military too much I had a I had a good time [speaker002:] well I just meant from a benefit standpoint [speaker001:] well from benefit well that's one of the reasons I made a decision to get out uh I what I perceived as the benefits were just eroding [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] well the their pension plan is really good [speaker001:] yeah you know that part is good except for the except for the little thing that you're paying into social security for twenty years and when you start [speaker002:] and then you can't draw it [speaker001:] that's right and then and then you start drawing your retirement pay and if you start drawing the social security they offset your retirement dollar for dollar [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] and I always thought that that that was a big rip off uh [speaker002:] yeah well on the other side of the fence [speaker001:] but still [speaker002:] the way it works is that uh some employers although they have a qualified pension plan they don't have a viable pension plan [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and we won't mention any names [speaker001:] don't worry they're recording every word [speaker002:] I know I didn't say it was them [speaker001:] oh okay you're right you're right [speaker002:] but I didn't but but I didn't say it wasn't either [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] we will let them draw their own conclusions [speaker001:] that's right draw your own inference um [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] but but but what you are saying about the military times is is true I mean fifty percent uh of your base pay is pretty good [speaker002:] and uh medical for the rest of your life [speaker001:] yeah that you know that sounds great on paper but it's not it's not something that I would look would look forward to [speaker002:] well we have we have had some medical I mean some military retirees work up here for us or a bunch really and they did use the heck out of the medical [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] military medical [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] now the military dental was poor [speaker001:] no now uh-huh [speaker002:] at best [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but the medical seemed somewhat adequate somewhat adequate [speaker001:] yeah I mean don't get me wrong for something something that was major I I wouldn't have any problems with them it's the daily uh go in with the with the flu or something like that and and the the treatment is terrible I mean first you wait for hours and hours and hours and then the guy says you have a temperature well I knew that we're going to give you Sudafed you know I've been taking Sudafed for two weeks it doesn't do any good that's all I can do that's all I can do [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah uh I'm a member of an HMO and uh from all indications it's quite similar to the military [speaker001:] yeah yeah well that that's HMO's are designed that way I mean they are going to they're gonna they're gonna get the most bang for their buck [speaker002:] yeah exactly and [speaker001:] and uh you know they're they're in the big profit making business [speaker002:] and so and so the single benefits that I consider among the most important are medical insurance [speaker001:] yeah absolutely [speaker002:] because without it you can be broke for the rest of your life [speaker001:] that's it forever and ever all all you have to do is you don't have it let something bad happen and that hospital will slap a lien on you so fast because they do it routinely [speaker002:] yeah and yes and the funny thing is that uh private medical insurance grossly expensive [speaker001:] yeah oh I know I know [speaker002:] if you are not a member of a group [speaker001:] I know my roomie's got the ins urance through the school [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it runs fifty eight I think fifty eight bucks a month something like that an that's not bad but you don't get anything [speaker002:] that's not bad [speaker001:] I mean to tell you [speaker002:] well you get what you pay for don't you [speaker001:] that's exactly right I mean it's nothing um uh it doesn't cover doctors or anything else it's crazy [speaker002:] doesn't cover doctors [speaker001:] no I mean you can go it will cover something major but forget about things like eyes or your teeth or anything else what it is it's medical insurance on paper [speaker002:] are you covered yes are you covered really no [speaker001:] that's right read between the lines are you covered no [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] but you know I mean the whole health care thing in the states is so screwed up that uh [speaker002:] yes it [speaker001:] uh it's totally ridiculous [speaker002:] it it's a shame it's [speaker001:] it is I mean I'm one of those forty million Americans running around with no health insurance at the moment [speaker002:] in our state currently when in Colorado whenever you fill out uh your state income tax they ask you if you have medical insurance if you do you have to pay for those that don't have medical insurance [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] I think it's two or four dollars a person I don't remember something along those lines but it still the idea irks me so that [speaker001:] yeah well it's sort of like North Carolina North Carolina has an interesting thing on their income tax uh they create money tax you with or to tax you on there's a neat little formula on the back that you have to complete and assuming you're you're you're at poverty line where you're uh deduction or you take the standard deduction of thirty two fifty uh that will work out to an additional three hundred dollars [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] tacked on to your taxable income yeah and of course it goes higher and higher the more money you make [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] but the very least that anybody filing income tax form will have to pay on is three hundred dollars and they create money out of thin air [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] I attached a little note to my my return when I sent it in saying gee I didn't know I had this extra three hundred dollars I wonder where it went [speaker002:] uh Colorado is a nifty thing if you or they did until last year in times past if you got a federal tax refund [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] you paid state income tax the next year [speaker001:] on the refund yeah Alabama did that too and I always thought well this is pretty nifty you taxed me when I made the money the feds [speaker002:] and now you're taxing me again on it [speaker001:] yeah the feds took it out and now they're giving it back to me and now you're going to tax it again I seem I seem to recall recall something about revolutions and wars about double and triple taxation and stuff [speaker002:] yes yeah [speaker001:] course uh course it it's the by word now I mean let let's tax everything three or four times [speaker002:] and there are tax revolutions going on currently [speaker001:] there should be [speaker002:] but the problem is it's not an armed insurrection [speaker001:] no eleven [speaker002:] it's not a violent overthrow of the people in Washington [speaker001:] no because because quite honestly the American people are so apathetic about everything Washington can do what they want to do [speaker002:] and they are trying to take away our guns [speaker001:] yeah that too I'm a lifelong member of the NRA I'm not as militant as I was when I was younger but I still firmly believe in the right to own and bear arms [speaker002:] and those people that say that all that in the Constitution was guaranteeing is that we will have a militia [speaker001:] yeah that's garbage [speaker002:] I think they are sorely mistaken [speaker001:] they're they're wrong the militia in those days was the common man there was no organization of militia the militia made up the everyday common man [speaker002:] he pulled his squirrel rifle off his wall as he walked out in the yard [speaker001:] that's right and and if they said hey we need a militia then all the able bodied men were supposed to show up

[speaker001:] and women's place in the workplace huh uh to quote my father a woman's place is in the stove I have to disagree my wife works say what what do you do [speaker002:] oh I disagree I disagree yeah so do I so do I um I'm a lab tech [speaker001:] are you [speaker002:] yep [speaker001:] well I guess as far as roles in the workplace they've uh they've made some you know pretty serious uh ground in the last thirty forty years [speaker002:] that right they've generally increased considerably [speaker001:] uh my sister is a she's a medical professional [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and you know she says that in in in order to get paid the same as a man you have to do twice the work [speaker002:] yeah see I can [speaker001:] but fortunately it's not that tough [speaker002:] well yeah that I can see that I can see that I I I do think that uh um higher positions like administrative more often go to the man than they do the woman [speaker001:] yeah yeah I I'll grant you that [speaker002:] but hopefully that'll change soon [speaker001:] well it hasn't been true of any of my companies [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah because the only women that I hire are ones that are capable [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] if they're capable they can do anything they wanna do [speaker002:] right well I work for a private laboratory and and when it's a small company you see where you're you're kind of overstepped because you are a woman and but I think uh it I think it's starting to change [speaker001:] yeah yeah well I hope so I really do [speaker002:] yes I do too considering I am a woman [speaker001:] yeah well for your sake sure but uh I think that as long as [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the uh American society is inundated as it is by the commercial market you know the [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] television's commercials in particular uh progress is gonna be rather rapid but shaping role models is gonna be a problem [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] because you know they don't wanna rock the boat with anybody [speaker002:] right right [speaker001:] and you know I don't know how you perceive life but I know that people are prejudiced and they bigoted and they carry their their convictions all the way to the bone no matter what they say [speaker002:] right right right [speaker001:] and uh you know I'm the first one well I flunked the the MCP test big time [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] you know what that is [speaker002:] no huh-uh [speaker001:] oh a man and his son were driving along the road in a convertible and they have a car wreck and the the father's killed and the boy is rushed to the emergency room and the doctor walks in looks down says I can't operate on him that's my son [speaker002:] all right the that was his mother [speaker001:] all right you passed [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] believe me it's not that easy for a lot of men to understand that [speaker002:] I yeah I can yeah I can see that I can see that [speaker001:] yeah and I have a woman doctor yeah [speaker002:] oh really isn't that strange I have a man doctor [speaker001:] really well actually we go to Doctor Garcia's office we started going with him soon as he got done with his residency [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] he was a guy at the emergency room when we went there and then when he got his office well we just you know stayed with him and he's hired this other lady and uh my sister says that she's a better doctor [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know you know I see doctor once every six months you know but uh [speaker002:] well that's what that I think that's one place that you know the roles of women are changing you don't see um uh you well you see a lot more women in medical profession higher up as in doctors and everything I know several that are are pathologists and forensic pathologists and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know used to you didn't see that or hear of it at all [speaker001:] yeah well getting into medical school is no no mean trick either [speaker002:] right that's true that's true [speaker001:] but uh as far as a you know the the the role of women in the workplace I think Texas has come remarkably far considering considering the the high density of rednecks that there are around [speaker002:] oh yeah isn't that true isn't that true [speaker001:] I'm a I'm a transplant I'm you know we came from out of state [speaker002:] uh so did I [speaker001:] when I was very young but it was too late I was already formed [speaker002:] oh I came as an adult here [speaker001:] yeah well you know I was like uh I guess ten or eleven yeah [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and we came from uh a family that was my mother is strong to say the least [speaker002:] did she work [speaker001:] um no not outside the home [speaker002:] hm [speaker001:] no she was a she went to college and you know correspondence courses and whatnot but my parents were in my dad was in the Air Force [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] and all the time that uh you know he was in the Air Force well she's never had to work [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you know he always provided the the financial support but she has worked uh therapeutically you know she something to do [speaker002:] um-hum right [speaker001:] I mean raising children

[speaker001:] what experience have you had with family reunions [speaker002:] well actually uh oh the last eight or ten years I have an aunt and I I should say have like done our family reunion and uh oh you know we send out letters to everybody and we rent a place in this uh savings and loan in a in a little town [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh then everybody brings a covered dish and that sort of thing and uh it's real nice because my mother uh had seven brothers and sisters and if we didn't do this like the cousins would never see each other the aunts and uncles that's the type family reunion we've had there you know so uh you know if we found you know the years we don't do that nobody nobody sees each other because everybody lives in different places you know [speaker001:] huh that's really good yeah my mom my mom's family is all my family is really scattered out so if we didn't have family reunions we simply would never see each other for example um my my parents live in Seattle Washington [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] however all of my mom's and relatives and family are from Utah [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and all of my dad's uh relatives and family are from Oregon so we we usually have family reunions once a year and we'll go to Utah and uh go to Oregon um my mom puts a big deal into the family reunion when they go to Utah um and um she sometimes plans them and and sometimes helps in planning them usually um Southern Utah is so hot that um we pick there's the they rent out this cabin that's up on a mountain I mean you have to go up into the hills to get some cooler temperatures and have a enjoyable time [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and that's what we usually do and then have of course the food is one of the highlights also [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah everybody fixes their specialty or whatever [speaker001:] uh yeah [speaker002:] yeah well it really in your case and mine too uh I guess in most everybody's as far as especially more distant relatives you know uh cousins aunts and uncles and so on you just wouldn't see them if you didn't do something like that well my immediate family like on my side uh has gotten large because there's four of us and now we've all had children and now we all have grandchildren so that makes just my immediate family like thirty people so we do a separate reunion and we have a lake house uh about seventy miles from here so we we've done it once we all get together down there and um that works out real well because there's a lot well lot of things everybody can do they can fish or they can you know swim or things like that [speaker001:] yeah I know at the the family reunions on my dad's side that we go to in Oregon um we usually um have it at a park and so you know swimming is always part of one of the activities so [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh well it really doesn't much matter where where or how you do it as long as you manage to do it every how often did like your families up there have them [speaker001:] oh there's a there's a family reunion reunion um once a year um for for each for my father's side and for my mother's side I know and my wife also um so they try when they have family reunions they don't have them as regularly but when they do they try and make big deal out of it and usually have you know something like a talent show or [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um each family um does something um yeah [speaker002:] yeah we have taken like old home movies from you know twenty five thirty years ago and and shown them at the family reunion [speaker001:] yeah my mom my grandma also has some we haven't particularly shown those at the reunions but my grandma has some home movies and we ever whenever we go to her house we like to see those those are you know nice for memories [speaker002:] uh-huh we finally put ours on tape a few years ago there's places now that do that and uh it really is nice when you when because you can get on one tape you can get about thirty or forty old reels you know [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] on there and it and then you can skip around and find what you want and all that it really has uh worked out good [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so uh so how did you get on the TI thing

[speaker001:] hello Lynn [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] okay do you have any pets [speaker002:] yes I have a dog and cat now [speaker001:] oh what are their names [speaker002:] Tibby and Liberty [speaker001:] which is the dog and which is the cat [speaker002:] Tibby is the dog and Liberty is the cat [speaker001:] yeah my wife and I we have we have two cats um one's real nice but the other one is uh well she's pretty wild [speaker002:] oh ours are pretty calm [speaker001:] yeah are they um just house pets [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] yeah that's that's what ours are too [speaker002:] yeah our cat we got from the pound the day before the night she was going to be put to sleep so that's why we call her Liberty [speaker001:] oh really oh well that's a nice nice story um [speaker002:] do you wanna hear about my other animals I've had I've had a skunk [speaker001:] sure sure yeah [speaker002:] I've had a Burmese python I've had rats I've had mice uh let's see had gerbils [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] I have a I had a son he's now gone from the home that was a pet animal lover [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so at one point I had a snake skunk dog and cat running loose in the house [speaker001:] wow the um do the skunk uh was that kind of like a cat to have around the house [speaker002:] yes [speaker001:] yeah so it [speaker002:] it was litter trained and we had it perfumed and um [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] it was very aggressive but all the all three of them dog cat and [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] skunk used to chase each other all through the house [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and the only thing we have with the skunk he was very very protective of his territory [speaker001:] the skunk oh yeah [speaker002:] being the sofa and the blanket on the sofa nobody came near it when he was there [speaker001:] hm oh um I had I had a dog one time and uh he chased after a after a skunk and got sprayed so we had to uh we had to give him a tomato tomato juice bath [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and uh and get him cleaned up [speaker002:] yeah they um ours would still back up to the dog or cat when he got mad and try to perfume them but [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the glands had been removed so [speaker001:] right but I suppose it was still in the instinct of them to [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] to back off and get ready [speaker002:] one other question we had is why do you have pets [speaker001:] yeah why I don't know I I think they're kind of nice to have they're kind of I don't know just relaxing to I don't know to pet and to I don't know when they like sit up on your lap and stuff like that just kind of enjoyable to you know have like I don't know something giving you some affection as well what what do you think [speaker002:] yeah I always said if I died well I always said if I died I'd come back as a dog that'd be the best way to be [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah yeah um do you like big dogs or or little dogs [speaker002:] well we had a German Shepherd and he had dysplasia [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and he had it for about three or four years where we just about had to lift him and carry him every place he went [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] so when he died we got a little one [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but our Shepherd was almost thirteen years old and it just you know it was almost cruel [speaker001:] um-hum almost cruel for him to to walk [speaker002:] because yeah he just he couldn't get up he couldn't walk so he was a hundred and twenty pounds so it was a chore [speaker001:] wow yeah [speaker002:] so we said the next time around we'd get something little that if something happened it would be easier to carry [speaker001:] sure yeah it was something [speaker002:] and then we've had three cats in our married life and we've got a calico now [speaker001:] yeah we've got a calico cat too yeah yeah she's the she's the nice one [speaker002:] do you [speaker001:] yeah we um we used to live in an apartment and like our cats never went outside but um the neighbors used to let their dogs out and our neighbors were I don't know kind of slimy and um our cats wound up getting fleas um from the apartment that we were in [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] so we had to we had to flea bath them and that was uh that was an experience that they didn't enjoy at all [speaker002:] yeah well don't even talk to me I when I was single I had gone away for the weekend and my husband then fiance was to keep my cat [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and he let her out and my house was loaded with fleas I mean you walked in and your legs were just black [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] and we had such a time and never got the cat back [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah I found it you know in the street [speaker001:] ah [speaker002:] I was a social worker at the time and found it it

[speaker001:] uh hello Steve [speaker002:] hello [speaker001:] uh you were going to talk about child care [speaker002:] yeah uh we well me and my wife we got a five year old and we have [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh kind of like child rearing he we have problems with him every now and then but other than that it's it's pretty he's a pretty good kid [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] and we uh really don't really have any problem with finding day care for him because I'm in the service and we just take him to the day care on base [speaker001:] I see how much how much do they charge [speaker002:] they charge about forty five dollars a week [speaker001:] uh-huh that seems relatively low by commercial standards isn't it usually about sixty to a hundred a week [speaker002:] um yeah it's it's pretty pretty expensive on the outside [speaker001:] right um so you've you've been you've been pleased with the service [speaker002:] oh yeah they do a lot of you know lot of stuff in in their day care and stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh uh how long have you been taking your son there [speaker002:] oh about a year now [speaker001:] uh-huh before that did he go somewhere else or [speaker002:] well before that my wife was kind of stay at home mom now she went back to school so [speaker001:] I see you say you went back to school [speaker002:] no the wife went back to school [speaker001:] oh I see uh-huh [speaker002:] so he's been there for almost a year now [speaker001:] uh-huh um gee I think where where does she go to school [speaker002:] she goes to UT uh Arlington [speaker001:] uh-huh okay yeah I had a student who went there at one time but I think we're getting off the topic so [speaker002:] yeah uh [speaker001:] so um let's see I mean I I was uh reading I read a lot of articles on child care back when it was when there was a debate in Congress over funding of uh child care centers and what should be done [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I came out uh very much in favor of a tax credit approach where parents would be given a tax credit and they would select whatever services they wanted for their child rather than to have the government subsidize certain providers [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh that was I I thought it was important well I mean it is important uh that that people have the opportunity to select the service that they would choose because a lot of kids are in you know in centers well well not really centers but they're being cared for by neighbors and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh that's the sort of they they prefer it that way the parents do because they know the people who are caring for their kids and they don't have to take them very far plus about a third of the kids are in church run centers and there was a big church state controversy over whether the government could fund those are not I think they ultimately decided to but they placed a lot of restrictions on it so it wasn't clear that the church child care centers would want to go to the trouble [speaker002:] um yeah [speaker001:] so uh anyway I continue to be an advocate of the um of the tax credit approach now myself I'm not married so I don't have any kids and it's not a problem but uh still I know a lot of people that do and uh you know I mean you you you really wouldn't wouldn't um uh well I'm on gee I'm on the benefits committee at the university here and uh child care is a topic of conversation we the university started up a center this year but it's about two miles away from campus and I'm not sure it's going to be real convenient for people to take their kids over there [speaker002:] yeah well well when I was stationed in Lubbock Texas uh they had a child care center right on base uh right at the school I mean [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and that helped out my wife because she just went part time there and you know take a couple of classes a week but [speaker001:] uh-huh right uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I think it's a good deal deal but um like you were saying it's about two miles from the school and that's [speaker001:] yeah it's just a lot of time [speaker002:] it's not going to be very good I think they should talk about putting one right on the campus itself [speaker001:] yeah well they say they claim that it's a better environment for kids than to be in with all the students [speaker002:] well they kind of have this I think in a different building you know on right on the uh edge of the campus and everything where they really didn't get in [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah I am sure that a lot of it had to do with how cheap it was to acquire the building if they would've built a new building then it would've I'm I'm sure it would have cost a lot more than if they uh if they put it down where they did where real estate's probably cheaper [speaker002:] in oh yeah um I think they used one of the existing buildings they already had [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] so you know it it worked out pretty good [speaker001:] so so so what do you think about the about the child about the tax credit versus the subsidy approach which seems seems most appealing to you [speaker002:] uh well I haven't really thought about it like that because well you know we pay [speaker001:] yeah I think well the [speaker002:] excuse me we pay for any you know the child care but we don't pay as much as they do off base [speaker001:] that's right yeah [speaker002:] uh I think the government should subsidize some of it you know to give the parents you know some break on on the money portion of it [speaker001:] well I mean they they yeah the issue the issue is whether they can take it off of their taxes or whether the government decides which centers are qualified the other problem

[speaker001:] Hi you want to start first [LAUGHTER]? [speaker002:] Of course. We are talking about the elderly and, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] uh, whether or not we wo-, we like nursing homes and, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] as a matter of fact, I can tell you something about that. [speaker001:] You apparently have somebody there, in one. [speaker002:] No, actually, my grandmother owned and operated a nursing home for years and her mother, [speaker001:] Oh, you are kidding? [speaker002:] No, she did. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] And then my mother also owned and operated a nursing home, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] for years. [speaker001:] I will be darned. [speaker002:] And then, uh, went on back to school and became the director of nurses at a nursing home [sigh]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, my mother and my older sister both are geriatric nurses. [speaker001:] Oh, for heaven's sake. [speaker002:] So, I do know something [LAUGHTER] about that. [speaker001:] You are very, very much aware of what goes on. [speaker002:] Absolutely. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] That is great. [speaker002:] Actually, the motivation for Grandmother entering the business, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] was that her mother was very old, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and couldn't seem to find companions. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] She was lonely. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And she needed company, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] for her mother and so she opened a nursing home and initially started with eight ladies. [speaker001:] I will be darned. [speaker002:] And then, uh, it, it grew into a, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] very prosperous business from that point. Uh, then they, [speaker001:] Now, see that is a nice attitude to go into. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, it seems like they must be waiting until it is a necessity [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and there is no chance of, uh, good companionship or doing anything. [speaker002:] Well, that is not really true, either, uh, I think that is a stigma and an I, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and an impression that has come from some few bad experiences. You see, those who had bad experiences talk about them. [speaker001:] Uh, right, right. [speaker002:] And those who do not may write, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] a letter to the nursing home and say you did good, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but they do not talk a whole lot about that. [speaker001:] That is true. But what I mean is instead of maybe entering a nursing home, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] when you are still able to have good, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] relationships with, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] maybe other friends [speaker002:] Sure. Well now, [speaker001:] they wait until they are, you know, unable. [speaker002:] That is right. Well, that is because they wait until the children make those choices, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] they choose to not make those, [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] choices themselves. However, my daughter-in-law [sigh] also is a nurse in a nursing home. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, she works for one here in Dallas, which is more a retirement village than it is a nursing home. And these, these, [speaker001:] Uh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] I love watching these elderly people come, they will come and tell her. "Well I am going for my, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] tennis lessons. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, uh, would yo-, would you, you know, call down and have the van come around and take, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] us for our tennis lessons." And they are very active and very enthusiastic and they have, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] some excellent programs right there on site. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] [Sigh] Their dining room looks like, you know, Luby's Cafeteria. [speaker001:] Yeah. That is great. [speaker002:] Or, or one of the lovely cafeterias. And they have, you know, pink linen napkins for their dinners. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, [sigh] a well equipped library. [speaker001:] Yeah, that sounds great. [speaker002:] Oh, I am certainly very much for a nursing home and I think when the, the parent gets old enough, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] to the extent where they just do not want to be bothered with keeping house, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and with taking care of themselves, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] anymore. That is a wonderful alternative. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] It is expensive. It is costly. [speaker001:] See if they could, could get this idea across though, better than what it is, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you, know. [speaker002:] Well, now my daddy's mother, uh, lived in a, a retirement village and she and her sister had side by side duplexes, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] one bedroom duplex. [sigh] She still had her individuality, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but they were there close and they did have, uh, you know, the button that you could push the central office if you got into problems and, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] there were lights that you could flip on and so forth. And they have security. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] No, I am very much in favor, I have heard horror stories, [speaker001:] Oh, well you have that with anything. [speaker002:] I know that the elderly can easily be abused, [speaker001:] Oh yeah. [speaker002:] but I would be willing to bet they are far less abused in a nursing home than are, they are in, [speaker001:] In the homes, yeah. [speaker002:] homes of their own children. [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] we used our nursing home as, uh, like when my sister was real bad before she died [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, we took her the last month and a half, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] into a nursing home. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And they were super with her. [speaker002:] Absolutely. [speaker001:] They were, uh, [speaker002:] Well now, my grandmother, of course all of my folks lived to be very old [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and my grandmother developed Hodgkin's Disease, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] when she was in her late eighties, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, late seventies, I mean. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] [Sigh] She went to the doctor, she had surgery, she got the treatments and during, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] the period of time that she was undergoing those treatments she was in a nursing home. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] She got better, she got well, she got out and went dancing again. [speaker001:] Well, a lot of people do that. They, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] left them temporally maybe they had a, [speaker002:] That is right. [speaker001:] broken hip or something or, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. I think it is a wonderful interim place, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it is a place that you do not have to struggle with hospital, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] problems [sigh] and yet it is not, you know, you have, [speaker001:] And it can become home to them. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] It, [speaker002:] It certainly is. [speaker001:] It depends upon the individual. [speaker002:] It certainly does, but, you see, we have had excellent experience with that. And, uh, I, I did not put my husband in a nursing home when he became ill, but, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] I would not object to going to one. I might, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I might like to be, [sigh] uh, coherent enough to make my own choice. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker002:] [Sigh] Uh, I would not particularly think I would want my kids to say, "well, I think this is what I need for Mom", and, [speaker001:] This is and, [speaker002:] then dump me there. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, I would like, [speaker001:] There has to be consideration taken on everything. [speaker002:] That is right. Uh-huh, uh-huh. And I think you would shop for a nursing home, just like you would shop for a church, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] or a doctor or anything else. [speaker001:] That is right, you would look into it thoroughly and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, sure. [speaker001:] do, do the best job you could in choosing one. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. When you get to the point where you are in trouble, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and you have got to have that help, you are in no position to make those choices. [speaker001:] No and you do not have the time to look, that is what, [speaker002:] That is right. [speaker001:] I am saying, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] most people will not even look at that until it becomes a necessity. [speaker002:] Absolutely. I think that one of the best ways to do that is for families to realize they are going to be needing those facilities one day, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and to actually get involved and participate on a community level with community service. Go out to the nursing home, help guide some craft programs, perhaps, work on some [sigh] music programs, whatever their talents are. [speaker001:] Whatever their talents, yeah. [speaker002:] And work with, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] those senior citizens. [speaker001:] Yeah, I have a cousin who is, uh, she had a son that was epileptic from birth, and he did fine, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] at home, they lived on a farm, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but she made arrangements, so that when she was gone, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] she did not want her, her children, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] her other children burdened with his care. [speaker002:] That is right. [speaker001:] So he, they, she has made arrangements that when she, she was gone, that he would go into the nursing home. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And he has, I would say, he adjusted very well and, uh, he, he, he has been there quite a long time. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, he don't know me usually [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, he goes wheeling down, uh, the hall to bingo. Somebody else, is helping him out, [speaker002:] That is right. [speaker001:] you know, [speaker002:] Uh. [speaker001:] and, uh, he has adjusted very well. [speaker002:] Well, one of the things, I think that is most desirable for the elderly and that is routine. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, oh yes. Yes. [speaker002:] Routine and, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, constancy. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, uh-huh . [speaker002:] Uh, the only real problem with that in a nursing home is that the staff turns over. [LAUGHTER] I do not think they pay, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] the nursing home staff sufficiently, [speaker001:] uh-huh. [speaker002:] to, to get the dedication [sigh], [speaker001:] To keep them there, uh-huh. [speaker002:] that they have in some other profession, [speaker001:] True. [speaker002:] and that is sad, because, I think the health profession is one of the most critical, [speaker001:] Yes. But, [speaker002:] And, uh, [speaker001:] for some reason people resist, uh, the fact that they should be paid as well as businesses and that type of thing, you know. [speaker002:] That is right. [speaker001:] It seems to be a resistance. [speaker002:] Care for the elderly and care for the children, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I cannot imagine a more costly and a more, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] a more, uh, better area to invest, [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] your money. [speaker001:] But there seems to be a resistance. [speaker002:] You are preserving your heritage and your future there. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] [Sniffing]. [speaker001:] So, uh, [speaker002:] And, as a matter of fact, I do not see why they do not have children's programs in nursing homes. [speaker001:] Well, around here, we have some, you know, the churches, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] take your, the children and, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I know our kids thoroughly, the children thoroughly enjoy,

[speaker002:] okay do have a dog or a cat or [speaker001:] uh I got both [speaker002:] both [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] what kind of dog [speaker001:] it's uh half Border Collie and half Lab [speaker002:] is it a house dog [speaker001:] half Border Collie [speaker002:] no I mean is it a house dog mean do you keep it in the house [speaker001:] yeah yep it's [speaker002:] and [speaker001:] it's uh and you'd think he's an uh little poodle [speaker002:] a little poodle [speaker001:] he's about eighty pounds though [speaker002:] really [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well I've just the opposite I've got a Pomeranian he probably weighs about five he thinks he's a little man [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] he's a little he presses around and struts but I don't have a cat though that might be a little bit too much do you keep the dog and the cat both in the house [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] yeah they get along [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah they get along real good oh the dog was brought up with cats so he doesn't really bother the cats [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] well now the little kitten picks on him all the time [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] well how old is the dog [speaker001:] uh let's see uh about seven eight years old [speaker002:] goodness mine's only I guess three [speaker001:] and and our cat's only about two years old [speaker002:] well um what made you get a dog and a cat [speaker001:] well uh we both we've had cats and dogs before you know before we even got married so I kind of like cats and she likes dogs so yep [speaker002:] so you compromised [speaker001:] so we've had them oh at one time we had two dogs and two cats [speaker002:] goodness [speaker001:] but [speaker002:] well I got my dog little dog to keep me company and now I'm hardly ever at home so now it's like whenever you come in he's all over you [speaker001:] oh yeah well ours does that the company when we get it [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yep [speaker002:] yeah it's like a new face [speaker001:] yep uh [speaker002:] something I guess like just something new and different [speaker001:] oh yeah he he's pretty he's real friendly [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] but but when somebody knocks at the door he's his barks is real uh you know like he's a real bad dog [speaker002:] but uh [speaker001:] when you come in the house and he he'd probably show the burglars where everything was at [speaker002:] thinks I think that Brian would probably do the same thing [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] well I've heard that um pets are like to to people that are sick or to older people that they're have like calming effects on them [speaker001:] yeah I've heard that too [speaker002:] especially I guess if they have like high blood pressure or um like heart conditions it just kind of helps to have a little or a dog or a cat or something around just to lavish the attention on it kind of calms them [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I know I think it helps them too when they take them out for walks and stuff especially dogs you know plus they're uh the dog's a good [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] good uh way to protect your house too when you're gone [speaker002:] uh that's true [speaker001:] you know like I said he barks a lot when somebody rings knocks on the door or rings the doorbell so it kind of keeps people away [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they think twice about breaking in [speaker002:] um trying there's something I was going to tell you and I forgot just totally went out the window [speaker001:] uh but our little our little kitty he she uses uh she's pretty cute little the wife got her when she she was a stray and uh it bit her and so she had to bring it home with her to see if she got rabies or anything [speaker002:] and then y'all decided to keep it [speaker001:] yep so [speaker002:] isn't that funny how there's always a story behind something [speaker001:] oh yeah well that's basically how she got the dog too [speaker002:] oh well do you have names that are appropriate with more or less how you found them or how you got them or anything or [speaker001:] well well not really [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] we uh the dog's name is Morgan and the cat's name is Oscar Anne [speaker002:] Oscar Anne well that's a new one [speaker001:] yeah well well see at first they thought that the cat was a a boy so they called her Oscar until the found out she was a girl so they just called her Oscar Anne [speaker002:] oh I see [speaker001:] so that's uh that's the name there and uh how we got the dogs was we were stationed in England and she went to some we had a dog and she took it to dog obedience school [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and this farmer was gonna kill these six puppies they had and she kind of said well I'll kind of I'll take one of them off your hands and that's how we got Morgan [speaker002:] Lord did you have a problem naming um coming up with names for them [speaker001:] I think uh well I didn't really come up with the name she did so [speaker002:] it took me like three weeks to name mine because I kept saying well I wan t to find a name that fits [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I actually had for a couple of days had started calling

[speaker001:] what what were you saying [speaker002:] okay I I think we're started now [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] uh do you wanna go ahead and start [speaker001:] um well I haven't really been up to date on a lot music I have been in school and I haven't really gone out and bought any or listened to much on the on the radio except for classical and [speaker002:] well you like classical music [speaker001:] uh yes [speaker002:] uh I like classical music I like rock and roll I like country and western [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] uh I I like all kinds I like I like different things about each one of them [speaker001:] okay well I like most of them except for country [speaker002:] oh you don't like country [speaker001:] music no I think I I might like dancing to it but I don't like listening to it [speaker002:] the the kind of country I like is kind of the older country music not the not the kind like Kenny Rogers and stuff like that that's uh [speaker001:] which oh [speaker002:] that's a little bit to uh it it's like they're trying to make it too much of a crossover thing you know what I mean [speaker001:] uh-huh what what's the old country music like [speaker002:] oh like like Hank Williams like the old Hank Williams even even Hank Williams Junior is real good stuff the kind that uh [speaker001:] uh-huh oh okay [speaker002:] this stuff makes you cry it sounds so sad I mean you [speaker001:] that's the kind you like you mean [speaker002:] yeah sometimes sometimes I do I mean not all the time [speaker001:] oh oh okay well I guess I I like the blues a lot and I guess you could say it's similar as far as [speaker002:] yes and I [speaker001:] the kind of the way they do it [speaker002:] I I do too I also like jazz [speaker001:] yeah me too too so I guess I like except heavy metal and uh most rap I don't like [speaker002:] yeah you're you're about like I am then uh I I can't watch MTV anymore I used to love MTV [speaker001:] yeah oh okay [speaker002:] and I can I can barely watch anymore because uh they have this heavy metal stuff on there and and I can't even you know I can't like that and and I liked uh Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin and uh [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh okay [speaker002:] you know and uh jeez who else is that uh Van Halen now I like I like groups like that but when you get uh [speaker001:] okay yeah [speaker002:] I I even like Guns and Roses some of their stuff [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but uh yeah some of these groups now like Slaughter [speaker001:] oh I have I really haven't listened to that [speaker002:] some of them are just really rough so so you went to school then in I'm surprised you didn't go to to any parties parties or anything where they were playing a lot of music or stuff or [speaker001:] well um I used to a long time ago but since I've started back into school now I haven't really done that much I've been pretty busy um but um [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] so no I haven't I you know I used to go out and dance a lot but I don't do that anymore either so [speaker002:] oh I see are you married at all [speaker001:] no I've just been real busy with with lots of other things [speaker002:] oh okay well how old are you [speaker001:] twenty eight [speaker002:] okay so you you were out of school you went to school for awhile then quit then went back [speaker001:] well no I I went to school and got a degree and then I worked for awhile and then I just started I started back a year and a half ago changed direction [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] yeah how old are you [speaker002:] I'm uh twenty eight I was born in sixty three so I guess we're the same age then huh [speaker001:] oh okay all right yeah and uh I didn't really start getting into music until I went to college because uh my parents didn't really have music in the house put it that way [speaker002:] oh really were they religious [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] ah I see I [speaker001:] so I'm always behind I'm I'm not I'm never really up to date on all that stuff but I know what I like when it's uh when I like a sound a certain kind of sound yeah [speaker002:] see my my parents were very musical my mother had a piano in the in the house [speaker001:] uh um-hum [speaker002:] my father likes uh country western music [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] he's from uh West Virginia so that's what he grew up listening to and he's always liked it and and you know he's probably about fifty three years old now so he grew up like in the late fifties and [speaker001:] uh-huh huh [speaker002:] you know when they had that the Elvis Presley music and stuff like that and the and that kind of rock and roll so he likes that and my mom always liked that kind of stuff my mom likes like uh Doris Day [speaker001:] yeah yeah um oh really [speaker002:] you know she always had those these old Doris Day records and stuff like that though so you know I I grew up listening to that stuff but uh [speaker001:] oh row yeah [speaker002:] I could see why you went uh you know I could see why you were kind of sheltered I guess from from music [speaker001:] yeah well I I do play the piano you know but um I I like the um early seventies late sixties rock [speaker002:] oh okay oh okay [speaker001:] kind of stuff the old stuff and uh [speaker002:] yeah so do I do do you like uh like Van Van Halen or anything like that or how about Bryan Adams [speaker001:] um Bryan what kind of music is does what songs does he play [speaker002:] it it it this uh Love Cuts Like a Knife uh Summer of 69 [speaker001:] uh-huh I think I've heard Summer of 69 [speaker002:] yeah he sings that he's he's from Canada [speaker001:] yeah okay I'm not I am not very good at remembering the uh titles yeah but I can remember the the song yeah [speaker002:] titles and artists yeah well do do you watch music television MTV at all or VH1 [speaker001:] no no I don't watch TV much at all [speaker002:] oh okay yeah do do you get cable [speaker001:] so no [speaker002:] oh okay that's that's you have to get c able to get those stations anyhow [speaker001:] no yeah so [speaker002:] but uh yeah I like to watch rock and roll videos and any kind of videos I like watching that kind of thing it's [speaker001:] um-hum do you like um like someone recent like Enya have you ever head of her she's not rock but [speaker002:] no I haven't heard her [speaker001:] she she's from Ireland [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] and uh she's gotten some uh she's been on like the top ten I guess or whatever [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] she she did the Orinoco Flow

[speaker001:] no I used to have a cat when my kids were little [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] I had him for about seven years [speaker002:] oh what kind was he [speaker001:] well the they called him a tabby cat [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] do you have any pets [speaker002:] yeah I got a dog it's [speaker001:] how long have you had him [speaker002:] uh oh she's about she'll be three in February [speaker001:] oh she [speaker002:] yeah yeah well her name's Sam because it's like short for Samantha and everybody calls her him [speaker001:] that's what I called my cat was Sammy [speaker002:] really ha how about that same names [speaker001:] yeah do you let your dog in the house [speaker002:] yeah yeah she's about forty five pounds or so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah she's about medium sized dog [speaker001:] she like one of the family [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah yeah you get up from your chair and she hops in and you never have the heart to kick her out because she's too friendly [speaker001:] when you go on trips do you take her with you [speaker002:] yeah yeah she loves to go in car she's pretty good too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah she just curls up in the back and falls asleep [speaker001:] yeah I think dogs are less destructive than cats cats tear up your furniture you know that's the only thing I hated about my cat he [speaker002:] yeah well she sheds a lot [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] so we're we're constantly sweeping [speaker001:] and brushing [speaker002:] yeah well she doesn't like to be brushed though [speaker001:] oh that's too bad [speaker002:] yeah I know you brush her and and she walks away [speaker001:] yeah that's unusual most of them really they like those [speaker002:] so we don't brush her much yeah that's what I hear but she doesn't [speaker001:] those brushes [speaker002:] yeah she can play Frisbee pretty good though [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] yeah she loves to chase things Frisbee or ball or anything [speaker001:] we have a lake up here in the middle of town and went last summer I went up there and there was a dog chasing I mean catching a Frisbee and he was really good [speaker002:] uh yeah [speaker001:] they'd throw it and he'd be right there on it [speaker002:] did he ever go into the lake [speaker001:] no some of them do though [speaker002:] yeah I don't think Sam would she's afraid of water [speaker001:] she's afraid of water [speaker002:] yeah she hates baths and she hates the rain [speaker001:] boy yeah a lot of those dogs they they'll you know if they're after a stick or or a Frisbee and they throw it in the lake they'll just jump in there after it [speaker002:] yeah I've never tried that with her there's a couple like parks around here with lakes but they don't let pets in [speaker001:] oh I see [speaker002:] so she's never had the opportunity but I don't think she would [speaker001:] no not if she didn't like water [speaker002:] yeah well it's like the first time she might not knowing it was water but then she'd learn [speaker001:] what kind is she [speaker002:] she's a Shepherd and Husky [speaker001:] oh I'll bet she's pretty [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] what color is she [speaker002:] uh brown and black [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I'll bet she's pretty [speaker002:] yeah it's like that's that's she looks really puppy like too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah the top of her is all blackish and then she gets lighter as you go down [speaker001:] yeah I like animals I live in an apartment now but so I don't like to have animals in an apartment [speaker002:] yeah we're I'm in an apartment now too and I'm the same way but it's kind of like out in the middle of nowhere there's big trees and fields so we can go out and run [speaker001:] oh oh well that's different see I'm right in town [speaker002:] yeah oh yeah that's got to be hard [speaker001:] no yard or anything and you I think if you have pets you really need yards [speaker002:] yeah you've got to have one [speaker001:] or a place that where they can run [speaker002:] yeah this is like one of the few apartments apartments around here that takes pets everybody here has a dog or a cat or a rabbit or something [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah so they always play together [speaker001:] yeah they ask for those big deposits for those pets too [speaker002:] yeah yeah but she's worth it she's a good little dog [speaker001:] I have a boyfriend and he has this duplex and he's he rented it out to these people that had a I don't know had one or two dogs and they just they ruined the whole thing [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] they wouldn't go outside to go the bathroom they ruined the carpet and everything [speaker002:] oh I bet they stained all over it [speaker001:] oh they did it was awful so he had to rip up all the carpet and throw it away they ruined it [speaker002:] ooh yeah we've never had a problem with Sam because we'll go to work in the day and leave her and she'll just sleep all day and not make a mess [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I guess we're pretty lucky in that way [speaker001:] yeah well it depends on the people too that make their pets mind [speaker002:] yeah yeah I guess if you care about them they'll be better pets [speaker001:] yeah well when now when he rents he says no pets when he rents to people because of that one experience he had where they ruined the carpeting [speaker002:] uh yeah that's too bad though too a lot of people with pets need a place to live [speaker001:] yeah yeah so how's Pennsylvania is it cold over there today [speaker002:] yeah it's getting there pretty cold [speaker001:] oh well it's really nice here [speaker002:] yeah I bet it is [speaker001:] except it's windy if the wind wasn't blowing it'd be really nice [speaker002:] oh oh we got the wind and the cold up here [speaker001:] yeah well it's it's uh it's pretty warm but it's real windy and it's cloudy [speaker002:] ooh sounds like here except colder [speaker001:] yeah I like the sun to shine [speaker002:] yeah I'm waiting for it to snow some because uh Sam really likes the snow we take her outside and throw snow balls at her she catch them all [speaker001:] well I'm surprised if she doesn't like water [speaker002:] yeah she doesn't like when it's raining she hates to go out when it's raining but if it's snowing

[speaker001:] We could talk about my favorite subject [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Cooking and food, huh. [speaker001:] Food [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] What do you like to cook? [speaker001:] Uh, I don't cook a lot actually. I have just started baking, so, uh, I am kind of interested in cakes and, uh, muffins and stuff like that, but I can't seem to get them exactly right. So, I am just trying to perfect some things. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I tried to make an applesauce cake. Which I will never ever try to make again. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It was horrible [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Oh dear. [speaker001:] I don't know if the cake was horrible or if I made it horrible. [speaker002:] [Inhaling] Oh, probably not. I, uh, have, uh, a bread recipe that is real easy that everyone always really does like. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] That, uh, doesn't require kneading the dough. [speaker001:] Oh. Hey [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, it is always, it is wonderful. It is, and what is funny is that you use, uh, bran, all bran [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and it looks like it is a wheat bread. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] But, it is actually all bran flour [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, you know, it is just regular the type that, you know, yeast and that sort of thing [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and you let it rise and you can let it rise in the refrigerator and then punch it down, and then, uh, make your rolls. They really are good [speaker001:] Wow. [speaker002:] and they are so easy to do. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] That is seems like every time that we have a dinner party, or that we are going some place where everybody is suppose to bring something and they have had my rolls before. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. They request it. [speaker002:] They always ask me to, bring those rolls [louder]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I have not gotten any requests yet. Last year, I had a Christmas party, at, uh, my office, and I, uh, made the tuna fish sandwiches. And everyone, uh, I mean, I think, everyone knows how to make tuna fish, so I thought that would be easy for me to make and I can not go wrong with that, and so I made it and, uh, I used celery seed in my, Do you use celery seed in your tuna fish? [speaker002:] No I haven't. [speaker001:] And I just thought it was so strange, because I never, I thought that that was what celery seed was for. Was for tuna fish. [speaker002:] Oh, how funny. [speaker001:] And so, but everyone really, really loved the tuna fish and they just couldn't get over the fact that I used celery in it and it just surprised me. Celery and onion and, [speaker002:] Well, see I, I have always used celery, I mean, I have used celery before. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But I never used the celery seed in it. [speaker001:] Oh. Yeah. [speaker002:] Well, what else do you put in it besides the celery seed. [speaker001:] Just like, uh, really fine onions and green pepper and the celery seed and I use like, uh, Miracle Whip salad dressing instead of the actual mayonnaise [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because I really don't like the Helman's Mayonnaise. But if you use salad dressing with kind of, uh, you know, kind of, I guess a tart taste. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Then it comes out real good. But, I, uh, it was the first time I have [inhaling], I have ever found out that the, the, [LAUGHTER] nobody else used celery seed. I feel so silly but, [speaker002:] See, I have never put bell pepper in tuna fish either. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Isn't that funny? [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I was brought up with tuna fish, you know, where you put in, uh, oh, chopped hard boiled eggs which is [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] now is a no, no with cholesterol and, uh, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] you know, chopped up dill pickles. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And that sort of thing. The standard old tuna fish. [speaker001:] Yeah. I would put that too. I just did not have those things. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Like I don't think I had eggs that night or something, but I would have put eggs. I would have put eggs in there also. [speaker002:] But isn't that interesting? So you, [speaker001:] Uh, strange. [speaker002:] You, you use bell pepper and onion and [speaker001:] Celery seed. [speaker002:] celery seed. I will have to try that. [speaker001:] Do you use a regular mayonnaise or, [speaker002:] Sometimes I do and sometimes I use the Miracle Whip. [speaker001:] The Miracle Whip. [speaker002:] It depends on what I have. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And sometimes, if I am using, like, regular mayonnaise, to spice it up a little bit [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, I will use a little bit of mustard with it. [speaker001:] Yeah. I do that also. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Just to, to put a little zing in it. [speaker002:] Yeah. But not a bunch. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But enough to, make it have a little bit more flavor. [speaker001:] [very faint] I love barbecue. Anything barbecued I will eat. [speaker002:] I like, uh, to barbecue baby back ribs. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] And, uh, and, and, they are so easy to do if you, uh, have a good barbecue sauce [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and you, uh, just cook them very, very slowly in the oven. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it is not hard to cook, like some meals are. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And it is not, of course, it is messy to eat. That is the disadvantage. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, I make lasagna from scratch and people really like my lasagna [speaker001:] Yeah. I like to make that too. I make that once in a while. [speaker002:] and so, uh, sometimes, I am requested to make that. And that is not too hard to do because you can do it in advanced and just bake it. [speaker001:] It is not really, once you have all the ingredients [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it is just the layering really. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And not breaking the, uh, the, uh, pasta. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] That is the hardest part probably. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] But, uh, [speaker002:] Then, I have a wonderful recipe for strawberry pie. It just takes forever [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] But, it is, uh, when the strawberries are nice, and big and fresh and yummy. [speaker001:] Do you make cheesecake? [speaker002:] Uh, uh-huh. I do. But this one is basically, it is like a normal pie crust. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But then you use this sort of, uh, it is a cream cheese, uh, uh, layering, but you, use, uh, thin it out a little bit. [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] Uh, or make it a little fluffier and you put, uh, line the whole pie crust with that [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and so, it is sort of like in a way. Uh, using cheese [speaker001:] Uh. [speaker002:] cake, but, and it is not a real cheese cake and then you, [speaker001:] And just put the strawberries,

[speaker001:] okay the I guess the latest one that we've seen is uh Awakening with uh yeah that's with uh uh [speaker002:] Awakening I haven't heard of that one [speaker001:] oh the guy that plays Mark uh Robin Williams and he played a terrific part in that [speaker002:] uh-huh huh [speaker001:] but uh that's one of the better ones we've seen in in the last oh I guess the last six months [speaker002:] yeah we just saw uh Flatliners last night that was really good [speaker001:] Flatliners I want I never did get to see that [speaker002:] oh that's a good movie [speaker001:] yeah this uh Awakening I think is is something along the same lines [speaker002:] it's got some yeah [speaker001:] it's uh about a doctor uh and it's a true story [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh there was a bunch of people that were uh they first of all they they thought they had Parkinson Parkinson's disease [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] they would tremble first start trembling real bad but then they would just go almost go into a coma [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] and uh they they could tell that they were responding that they could hear you [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but it was just a blank stare you got and they were just almost frozen in in in a position [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] and they tried some uh tried some drugs and then all of a sudden that one summer uh the drug that they gave them brought them out of their coma and that's where they got the word awakening [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] but then they lapsed back into the coma but uh and Robert DeNiro played the uh played I guess uh the co-lead part he was one of the ones that were in a coma [speaker002:] uh-huh when did this movie come out [speaker001:] oh it's been out I guess now for or a month and a half or something like that [speaker002:] huh I haven't heard about that one [speaker001:] but if you get a chance see that I also want to see uh that uh Sleeping With The Enemy or Silence of the Lambs [speaker002:] oh that's a great a movie yeah we went to see that [speaker001:] I've heard that that's good [speaker002:] oh that's awesome [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah if you don't you don't mind the the gross parts of it [speaker001:] yeah well I heard it's not really that that uh gross it's not like Friday the 13th or something like that [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh oh yeah just the subtle kind of stuff though [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] yeah it uh Flatliners is a real good movie too I recommend renting that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's got some uh interesting things about it because you know you know what the plot is basically that they kill themselves and come back [speaker001:] yeah but they they're trying to experience uh life after death [speaker002:] yeah then when they come back all sorts of strange things start happening to them [speaker001:] yeah we don't see as many movies as we used to [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh we got a VCR so we go to Blockbuster video place and rent the movies [speaker002:] yeah that's what I I just did today I got uh Darkman have you seen that uh I haven't I'll guess I'll watch it tonight [speaker001:] huh-uh yeah there was another good movie that Robin Williams played in uh that really surprised me it was uh Dead Poets Society [speaker002:] oh yeah I liked that one that was good [speaker001:] uh but it uh it's not typical Robin Williams I you know I expected some comedy or something like that but he he's a good dramatic actor actor when he wants to be [speaker002:] um-hum um yep so what other movies have you rented recently [speaker001:] uh that Awakening I guess is the last movie we've been to in a couple months like I say we we uh our son one of our sons gave us for Christmas some Blockbuster uh gift certificates [speaker002:] uh-huh huh [speaker001:] and uh we just go up and find some old movies that we haven't seen [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh some of the old classics [speaker002:] what kind of movies are you into mostly [speaker001:] uh some some some of the like the uh Agatha Agatha Christie uh movies Murder On Orient Express and some of the others [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's a good one [speaker001:] course the new releases they're I don't know what the rule is now but I think they had I don't know if it's a year or what before they put them on uh VCR so you can rent them yeah [speaker002:] yeah it's about a year actually I just uh they just put one out that's only been out for um a half a year it seems [speaker001:] yeah but there's a couple out that I would I'd like to see I want to see that Silence of the Lambs I want to see uh uh Sleeping With the Enemy [speaker002:] um-hum yeah I haven't seen that [speaker001:] and uh I can't remember some of the others oh we went and rented uh Field of Dreams [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] have you seen that one yeah that was good [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] Kevin Costner [speaker002:] yeah it was okay [speaker001:] but uh yeah I like nature movies too I like used to be uh Walt Disney would put out what they called True Life Adventures [speaker002:] I'm not much into baseball yeah like like have you seen The Bear [speaker001:] yeah I saw The Bear that was good [speaker002:] that's pretty good when the bear comes up and attacks them scares the hell out of them [speaker001:] yeah yeah but some of the old ones that he put out like uh The Living Desert [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh oh there were several I can't remember them all but he would the show the animals and everything that live in a particular region or whatever [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I remember he done one on the desert and he done one on the prairie uh but I I like True Life Adventures [speaker002:] um yeah so does my girlfriend [speaker001:] hm yeah [speaker002:] she's she's um a veterinarian [speaker001:] I'm not I'm not much for the for the gory Friday The 13ths and and Nightmare On Elm Street and all that other stuff uh [speaker002:] yeah that's what my sisters like [speaker001:] now I do like a good mystery you know like Psycho or something like that but not the gory where they just all they show is blood and guts [speaker002:] they get a yeah um-hum yeah [speaker001:] I never did see that uh one that won uh so many Academy Awards that uh the one Kevin Costner Costner directed and starred in [speaker002:] which one was that the [speaker001:] um about the Indian uh Dance With Wolves or something like that [speaker002:] The Wolves oh yeah yeah that's pretty good that's a very good movie [speaker001:] I didn't see that I've heard some people say it's good and some people say it's they didn't like it course I guess you you can get that on any kind of movie you see [speaker002:] yeah um-hum a long movie though [speaker001:] yeah I heard it's over three hours long but uh plus movies cost so much now unless you go to the early movie [speaker002:] yeah that's true [speaker001:] down here I don't know what costs you up there but down here man and wife you're going to spend if you for your tickets and any popcorn and cold drink you're going to spend close to fifteen dollars [speaker002:] that's about what it is here too those three dollar drinks three dollar popcorn [speaker001:] yeah and that they're awfully small too [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh it used to be the candy counter and stuff would have the small bars but now all they have is the big old family size bars [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] yeah I just got some free passes for movies because I'm graduating [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so I can use those [speaker001:] where where are you attending school [speaker002:] NC State [speaker001:] NC State [speaker002:] yeah graduating Computer Science [speaker001:] how'd y'all do in basketball this year [speaker002:] oh we did pretty good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] y'all usually always have a good basketball [speaker002:] yeah next year we're not going to have anybody though because all our seniors are leaving [speaker001:] hum yeah well this is football country down here [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] although Arkansas had a pretty good basketball team [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah as always [speaker001:] but uh well [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] I was trying to think of something else I I do miss uh I'm I'm fifty seven years old and you don't sound like you're that old [speaker002:] uh-huh no [speaker001:] twenty two but uh I remember when I was a kid kid and you'd go to the movies and you got to see a movie and usually a double feature [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you got to see a newsreel [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and usually a serial like Flash Gordon or or uh Zorro or something like that line [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and then a cartoon at least one cartoon sometimes two cartoons [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and you could spend almost all afternoon at the movie just watching movies and other stuff but now it it's the movie and the previews and that's about it [speaker002:] and the ads [speaker001:] and the ads [speaker002:] throw a Coke ad in there [speaker001:] yeah but a lot of times we would go to the movies just to see the cartoons and the serial [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] because you always wondered how can the guy get out of this and then the next yeah cliffhangers and the next week you'd find out how he got out of it [speaker002:] cliffhanger and into something else [speaker001:] yeah but uh [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] well I enjoyed talking with you [speaker002:] all right [speaker001:] and good luck in your schooling [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] okay have a good day bye-bye [speaker002:] bye all right bye

[speaker001:] okay Liz do you have any children [speaker002:] I do but they're but they're both out of college so I have one who's uh living in an apartment in another city [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I have one who's actually living with me because um because of the economy and the job that she's got but she's about [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] she's on the verge of moving to her own apartment so what about you [speaker001:] oh uh-huh well we have five children and uh their ages range from range from twelve to four [speaker002:] uh-huh oh little ones then [speaker001:] uh yep and uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh some things we like to do together with our family are um in the summer time we like to go to parks we that's our thing we pack up a picnic and and go to every park from Northern Utah to Southern Utah [speaker002:] wow oh you mean like state parks that kind of [speaker001:] well mostly mostly just play parks yeah so [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] um with the with the kids and such we don't get a lot of vacationing in so we just like to take little weekend trips and go to parks and such [speaker002:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] you probably have pretty ones there when you were saying parks I was just uh we have a different terrain here so [speaker001:] oh uh-huh yep when I was a teenager I spent some time with my cousins in Dallas [speaker002:] uh um-hum [speaker001:] and so I I remember it's pretty it is flat oh [speaker002:] it's flat yes so the mountains would take a while to get around to to find any there are some as a matter of fact but um what other things do the kids like to do [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well we like to [speaker002:] like weekends or during during during the winter do they ski or [speaker001:] weekends um no we're not into skiing it's just too expensive we [speaker002:] it is expensive yeah [speaker001:] we can't do that so um we like to uh rent videos and sit down and have a video bash pop popcorn and [speaker002:] yeah um-hum hm yeah that's fun [speaker001:] and do that so we've done that quite a bit this winter and um we like to play board games together sometimes it's a little difficult with the younger one um [speaker002:] yes that's [speaker001:] but the three older boys we have some fun times with those after the little girls go to bed [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and let's see uh we like to get real wild and crazy and play hide and go seek and oh yeah things like that [speaker002:] all of those things yeah well the twelve year old probably feels he or she's much older than the four year old so there should be different activities in in their minds at at any rate yeah [speaker001:] oh yes yeah yeah he's really patient though he with us he's he's a real fun twelve year old so [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] but he's rapidly approaching teenagehood so we'll see what happens [speaker002:] uh-huh your first experience with it well it um it's interesting there's a dramatic change at thirteen and it doesn't end until about twenty five but [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh oh oh boy [speaker002:] it's part of what's supposed to happen or they can't fly the nest so um that's that's one way of looking at it anyway I was trying to think what what what we spent a lot of time well reading I loved to read to the kids when they were when they were younger uh obviously not any more but [speaker001:] oh oh uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh we still we like um Disney movies we really got into them when they were young there were a number of movies that we liked and we just simply liked the experience of the movies and um [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] ironically uh my twenty seven my twenty four and my twenty two year old last year for Christmas we rented um Jungle Book you know [speaker001:] oh how fun [speaker002:] and uh I gave one of them Jungle Book and one of them Fantasia for Christmas this year and it was one of their favorite gifts so [speaker001:] oh oh I think that's fun [speaker002:] so that's something and besides the another thing we used to do is watch PBS together which there were a lot of um my son loves science programs and um [speaker001:] oh oh yeah [speaker002:] we would all just stop and watch whatever the mountain lions were doing or whatever was going on [speaker001:] yes I think that is good that sounds [speaker002:] yeah which was which was fun yeah and so [speaker001:] uh-huh now were you able to get away on some vacations and [speaker002:] yeah we did and um and we enjoyed that um my now we my kids back when they were younger younger got did we would go from here to like Colorado and ski [speaker001:] oh oh how fun [speaker002:] and they did both uh learn to be scuba divers [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] uh we went once on a vacation with my parents to an island and they snorkeled and that that really got them you know fascinated with the deep and so they actually went through all the course and all the trouble in the middle of Missouri as we were living in Kansas City then [speaker001:] oh how fun uh-huh oh wow [speaker002:] and uh went and I don't can't remember what it's called uh but it's