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[speaker001:] Okay, I guess we're on. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Central America, have you ever lived in Central America. [speaker002:] I wasn't in Central America but, uh, talking about Latin America, I kind of, I consider Latin America to include Central and South America and I did live in, uh, San Polo Brazil for four years. [speaker001:] Do you, do you think that, that we should have given up the Panama Canal? [speaker002:] Uh, realistically, I, yes, I don't see the, the Panama Canal that hasn't had a whole lot of usefulness to us recently since it's not, not really big enough to, uh, accommodate the, the shipping that it once did and, uh, maybe it would be better that we let the Panamanians run it however, I think, we're certainly justified in, uh, our actions dealing with, uh, Noriega in this... [speaker001:] Well, there are those that, that, that think that, that, that the Panama Canal has some considerable strategic importance, particularly for the military. Interestingly enough my father was, who was in World War One, and as, uh, as a civil engineer they, they, they offered him a commission as a captain if he would, uh, go in and, and, uh, help with the defenses of the Panama Canal. He had worked for United Fruit Company there, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they, uh, they, in fact, they had, this was in the, the late twenties and they in fact used some of the equipment that had been left over and, uh, he turned them down. It, it's interesting that, that most people don't realize how small the canal is. Have you ever been there? [speaker002:] No, I haven't. [speaker001:] It's, it's really, I, I haven't been there, I've been to, been to Salvador and, and, uh, in fact, we went back to visit some friends of, of my fathers, that we went in fifty-seven I guess. And interestingly enough the canal is quite small and, and realistically could be sabotaged quite, quite easily. The thing I find interesting, though, is that, uh, is the whole colonial approach and, and, and do we, do we support the Sandinistas or, or do we support, uh, you know, when they thought, uh, they thought that Nicaragua, if you gave them a free election, they would vote for the, Will you, uh, did you ever studied the, the political makeup there, in, in, in Nicaragua. [speaker002:] I have a, a little bit, I can't say that I'm, I would be an, an expert on, on the region, but, uh, certainly, uh, I, it, it gets, it ge-, there, your, you've got this, this toss up betw-, or not, not so much a toss up but a, a dilemma when, when you want a country to have its, its, um, own, uh, dominion, or its free rein over its, its own people. And then on the other hand, uh, the, uh, the government in power that under what seem, what seems to be popular support, uh, the Sandinistas had to a given extent popular, uh, support, um, starts making overtures to the Soviet Union. And, and into what we consider our sphere of influence and now we're, we're in this dilemma over, uh, United States is, believes in democracy and, and self determination, where a-, but that on the other hand we believe in self preservation and, uh, agree with the, or, not so much agree with but are terribly concerned about, uh, infl-, Soviet influence in, in what's considered to be the United States sphere of the world which is not only, you, we used to see spheres but now we're in a situation where the United States is, looks like we're it now. [speaker001:] Well the interesting part about it is that, if, realistically it was economic. I don't know if you read any of the history on where the Panama Canal but there was an option to build it across Nicaragua, uh, and, uh, there were, uh, there's a big, there's a big lake, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, um, from a technical standpoint it wouldn't have been a lot more difficult to have built it in Nicaragua, but the, the United States, uh, had some, and I've forgotten what the political influence was but there were economic ties then. The issue of, of if, if it's in the economic interest of the United States, uh, do we go in and, and prevail and, and, uh, in other words do we make the world safe for democracy, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] but if there's no economic benefit, and I think particularly if you're, if you're looking at the, at the, at the peasant, uh, whether he's in Central America, regardless of where he is, is his life, is his life better off under communism or, or uh, or Democratic government. You look at Salvador where the, [speaker002:] Well he doesn't care as long as he's feeding his, uh, his family. [speaker001:] Yeah, and, and the question is, does the government make a difference. If they'll mostly leave him alone, uh, and I think that's the difficulty they, that, that we have that, uh, it, it reality doesn't make, uh, doesn't make any difference if he has no income. And apparently even some of our alleged, uh, Central American leaders that, uh, are mostly democratic have done some pretty terrible things, so it's, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah, well, yo-, in looking, bu-, if you look at the region in, in, uh, to their detriment they came from, uh, this, uh, hundreds of years of Spanish control and the, and the Spaniards have, uh, horrible history of corrupt, uh, government, greedy, uh, rulers who have been, uh, manipulating, manipulating their public for their own, their own good. I mean, if you go back to the kings and, and the, the conquistadors coming in and, and the hor-, incredibly horrible things they did to the, uh, the native tribes, I mean they make, uh, they make the things that Custer did look like, uh, like trivial. And, uh, you get, [speaker001:] It is, it is interesting, that, that, you know we, we look at the exploitation and, and, and then we accuse some other people of exploiting them and, and Americans have, uh, have a pretty good reputation of exploiting, you know we basically the Panama Canal we went in and, and took it. [speaker002:] Oh, absolutely and, you know we set up... [speaker001:] and we stole it fair and square, I think is, uh, [speaker002:] An, I mean, Ted, Teddy Roosevelt didn't have the reputation, speak softly and carry a big stick for, uh, for nothing and, uh, [speaker001:] Well what's going to be interesting is to the see what the economic impact of, of, uh, of the, the region, uh, you know, at the moment, it, the tremendous drug traffic through there, but, uh, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] the idea of, of, uh, what's the, what's America's role there and it, it, uh, with, with other things going on, it, it seems to have lessened, but you've still got, uh, Cuba that accepts, exerts some influence. [speaker002:] The only, the only thing I see about Cuba though, is, uh, after Fidel Castro dies, I don't think they'll be a communist power anymore. I, I can't see communism in that country carrying on past him. [speaker001:] Well, when you take a, a situation where I think in particular in Salvador where there is a significant under class [cough], excuse me, and that, uh, you know, having a, a lot of difficulty, uh, surviving, uh, the question is would they, you know, would they be better off under communism. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and I wouldn't, don't know that I would advocate communism but, uh, the question is can, uh, can you, can, uh, can a democracy, uh, afford the, it's like the street people that are starting to show up all other the U S, is that, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] that's essentially an underclass and when you get enough of them, uh, you know communism would feed them all. [speaker002:] Ye-, well, I, I don't know if maybe communism is the right, the right word for it but what we would, there would have to be some kind of, there, there may be a point at which, at which, you've, uh, you might want to consider some kind of socialistic, uh, organization or socialistic set up to, to deal with the problem and then be able to gradually transform back to a democracy. [speaker001:] Well that, yeah, if the guys got some incentive, if he's got, uh, you know, if he, if he can raise enough, uh, coffee and bananas to, uh, where he's got something to protect, other, you know, [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] whether he can export or at least, uh, set up trade and all then democracy of a considerable interest. [speaker002:] But cocoa leaves sell real well right now, it seems, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, as well as some other various things that are growing in tropical environments. [speaker002:] Absolutely. I don't, it's going to be hard to, um, we, if you, you, that, that's where your absolutely right is we've got to do something in that region to encourage, uh, or to make, to make him growing bananas profitable again, I mean. [speaker001:] Yes, but the, but the question is, you know, if somebody offered you, you know, a thousand dollars a day to, to grow something in your backyard, would you do it. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Well not that we could be bought, but, uh, [speaker002:] I've got to watch what I say here, I never know when the D I A may be, uh, listening on my phone [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well of course, everything we're saying is being recorded and... [speaker002:] Right, [speaker001:] Of course, of course. [speaker002:] yeah, it's tempting, it's got to be, it's got to be horribly tempting for those, those peasants. [speaker001:] Particularly, if you're hungry. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, you, it's not, it's not just a matter of, uh, of having an extra car or having a better car, this is a matter for them of, of feeding themselves their wife and their family and, and you, there's a certain degree of honor in being able to feed your family and there's dishonor in not being able to do it and... [speaker001:] Uh, starving to death is not a, not a whole lot of fun either and, that, uh, and, and, you know, [speaker002:] No, no. [speaker001:] when somebody comes in an offers, I think that's one of the real problems, particularly when, when the, uh, religious organizations, you know, the Catholic church has been accused of a lot of things. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] In reality, I think, what they were doing is basically going in and trying to feed some people and help them protect themselves, not that they, I'm, I'm not sure the Catholic church is, is, is particularly political but, you know, if... [speaker002:] Right.

[speaker001:] um you know one thing that I miss being in a small company is the opportunity for um job growth just different job opportunity I was talking with somebody from Bausch and Lomb today and she was telling me how she started as a clerk typist and then found another opening in another department and moved on and so forth and so forth and is now uh personnel uh director and I mean it's just it's there's so much opportunity in a larger company to uh stay within the same company so you're not losing your seniority level but um just to try new things and and see new areas and departments and I mean you can in in a large company you can go from one department to another department as if if you switched companies sometimes [speaker002:] well yes you have an opportunity to to use a J O B system which is a job opportunity system it's most companies most big companies have that but [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] well I think sometime that you get lost in that also [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] I really do I I I sometimes think that a small company may offer well I'm not sure how to put [speaker001:] well uh-huh [speaker002:] I'm not sure how to put this but that's not uh perhaps better one on one uh relations a a big company sometime you can get lost you can you can uh opportunities do arise [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but the competition is much greater for that [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh well it's true yeah [speaker002:] opportunity okay [speaker001:] there is a very uh uh at least in my office and I know that's not necessarily the way it is all over but the camaraderie within the office when you're with a small company I think you're right you could be even uh you can be a big person in a small company you know [speaker002:] exactly I and I think you get a lot more support from your coworkers and and often times in a big company you are asked to go and do things in other areas that [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] may not be your expertise okay but they require you to do this as their as your uh stepping stone or whatever you'd care to call it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and and that can get to be sometimes very very disastrous with the consequences of that because people do the best they can [speaker001:] uh-huh sure [speaker002:] and often times it's not really what [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] was aimed at in the first place if that makes sense [speaker001:] uh-huh I yeah I understand that you know a question that I have for you is um do you feel working working in a large company do you feel that you can see the impact that you make do you feel that you can see like the results I know in my company each person is vital because we are the company and each person really can see the results that they produce [speaker002:] yes I can I see that in my job because my particular job is of of a troubleshooting nature and I'm you know it's one of these put out fires things so [speaker001:] uh-huh oh uh-huh [speaker002:] I can see the results of that [speaker001:] I see yeah [speaker002:] but um yes I I'm I I get a lot of gratification from my job but some some folks I guess they go to work every day and they just go to work for a paycheck every every two weeks or every month or whatever [speaker001:] yeah I I [speaker002:] but in my particular job I really enjoy it because I do have an opportunity to help other people do better okay and I really like that [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh uh-huh I I do feel bad for the people I mean obviously we all work for a paycheck but it's nice if you can be enjoying it you know while you're doing it [speaker002:] yes yeah I I I also teach school at at TI at uh Texas Instruments I'm a I'm an instructor there so [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] I teach new well not new employees but all yeah all employee any employees really that that care to and we talked about the job opportunity system we have uh a system where we train people to to become what we call automation specialists [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and and it's a job where if you as a secretary you decide you want to be uh an automation specialist which is a much higher paying job and a much more technical job [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and then you would come to one of our in-house classes [speaker001:] that is great [speaker002:] on on company time [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] and and and or on overtime so we don't involve the the uh production process okay of of personnel coming to our classes and we set up and establish these [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] sixteen and twenty week classes at at uh three hours a day twice a week for automation specialist training [speaker001:] that is wonderful [speaker002:] when you finish hopefully you've acquired enough knowledge to uh you know move on into advanced machinery type operations and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and and that that's really gratifying to me I I see a lot of young folks come in and and gals and guys both and some gals that say I've no I don't know a hammer from a a nail or a wrench I mean you know and okay that's and that's where we'll start but and we have the other side of the coin where you have you know really advanced people [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh well yeah [speaker002:] coming in and and top notch uh mechanical type people and they want to do better so they of come they they jump right on it [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh that is great and that is so smart because with uh everything becoming so much more technical and sophisticated you're just not finding people out in the work force that have the skills that you necessarily need [speaker002:] no that's a fact and [speaker001:] I mean you just don't find them and it it's such such a great way take the people that you already have and train them [speaker002:] and train and train them we sometimes we have to uh simply for for two reasons one [speaker001:] yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] that we we are changing jobs constantly where we are changing our methods of doing things and we are finding more economical methods and more [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] okay and the other thing is we cannot find the people outside to just walk in off the street and help us [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] so but that would be the same in your type of secretarial job I'm that one time we the girls used to have just the typewriter and they [speaker001:] uh-huh exactly [speaker002:] and then they had word processors and now they've got full blown desk top publishers so you know [speaker001:] oh my oh exactly I mean it's incredible [speaker002:] it is I I'm that amazes me that you know people say your job amazes me well my job is really nothing I sit there and I watch some little gal make me all kinds of charts and view foils and graphs and [speaker001:] um yeah yeah uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's I it's you know they use laser printers and all that and it's absolutely mind boggling uh because I could probably turn it on before I get the screen to go completely blank you know and I generally do that [speaker001:] wow yeah uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] but I I was in the same situation I had to learn [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I I had no knowledge of a computer at all I'm a master mechanic but not a computer expert [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but now I'm in to Lotus and word processing and I can hold my own with that [speaker001:] oh that's great that is fabulous [speaker002:] but um [speaker001:] you know another benefit that that I wish I had more of and who wouldn't is vacation time [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah [speaker001:] you know um I think that uh when when you're working and an especially I don't know I mean every job you you say how you're constantly putting out fires you know I I feel like my job is like that too unfortunately but that just it drains you you know after a while it just [speaker002:] yeah I I I feel that way and it's a long time to get you know you work for many years with two weeks vacation per year [speaker001:] yeah yeah exactly right [speaker002:] and then if you have extra days out for what other reasons uh there may be uh an and we we try to deal on an individual basis with them but you can be penalized for that an and it it's penalized against your merit increases and et cetera [speaker001:] uh-huh oh oh wow [speaker002:] so I mean you are allowed a certain number of days of what we call sick time and personal time off but if you you know if you extend beyond those [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] an and at times we will adjust on a one to one basis [speaker001:] right uh-huh [speaker002:] for some unusual circumstances but [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] to work for a company almost fifteen years with two weeks vacation it seems to me like an awful long time [speaker001:] it's hard is that uh what your company policy is too [speaker002:] well no it well in some instances yes [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] okay in some instances it would be we start with a a weeks vacation and then it's two weeks after a year or so [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but then that two weeks stays and then it goes to three weeks for a long long time and then after fifteen years it's four weeks [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh my goodness [speaker002:] but that's still that's a long time you know [speaker001:] but that is a long time and especially when you take a weeks vacation I was just talking to somebody about this today it's funny it takes you until Tuesday or Wednesday to really wind down [speaker002:] oh sure [speaker001:] you know to say okay I I can relax I can sit here for an hour if I want to and just not do anything and realize that you don't have to be worrying about something you know [speaker002:] I think uh I would like to see I would like to see more well it's like the kids were talking in California about going to school all year but they have breaks every ninety days or thirty days or ninety days or whatever it is they have two weeks off or a week off or something [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh right [speaker002:] and they find that that's much better for them than having the whole summer off an where they're completely bored like the second month into I think I think industry really would really [speaker001:] uh-huh that's true [speaker002:] benefit from that [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I'm not sure how we would accommodate all of our people being on vacation at all various times but we would always be shorthanded I guess but so that's a problem you know that's a problem pardon me [speaker001:] yeah well that's where temporaries come in they could hire temporaries to fill in [speaker002:] well yes that's and that's exactly what we do in many instances you know where our work load increases an and our vacation periods and stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] of course we have uh what we called an SDS a Summer Development Student Program so [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] we we put a lot of school um [speaker001:] like a co-op type thing for the summer [speaker002:] college pardon me [speaker001:] like a co-op for the summer almost [speaker002:] yeah yeah they work for us and and they they go to school back in the Fall [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and hopefully when they get out of college they consider us to come on full-time [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and they've uh established themselves with a work pattern an and the you know they're familiar to our [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh right [speaker002:] our ways and stuff and they're on our records and we find that that's very very helpful [speaker001:] yeah I that is and uh it also gives you a chance you know to look at these kids and make your own determinations [speaker002:] you sound uh like a very young person [speaker001:] I'm twenty five [speaker002:] I

[speaker001:] you been doing in your house [speaker002:] uh well since Christmas we painted a bedroom and did some wallpapering in there I had to do most of it since uh my wife was working [speaker001:] yeah great where do you live [speaker002:] uh Austin yeah and getting getting ready around here to do some uh major yard work as soon as the weather turns a little bit nicer [speaker001:] Austin okay great well we yeah as soon as soon as it stops raining a little bit huh [speaker002:] yeah well actually the past couple days has made me want to get out there and get started but I figure I'd just be wasting my time [speaker001:] yeah yeah great have you done much uh much in the way of home repairs [speaker002:] uh I've always maintained our homes as far as repairs and things like that except maybe I don't do heaters and air conditioners but [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] I usually do everything else right up to replacing dishwashers and things [speaker001:] great how old a house do you have [speaker002:] uh this house is was built in probably the mid seventies uh it's kind of a brick ranch not a whole lot needs to be done to it we've only we only moved here about a year ago [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah yeah great [speaker002:] what about you what kind of house you live in [speaker001:] oh well right now we're not we're living in a travel trailer but uh we've we we've just moved here to Dallas uh recently and we're living in that until we can find a place but uh we lived in a brick homes in uh in Louisiana before this and did some uh various kinds of things uh made some storm windows to put up and uh uh really did a major rejob on the inside of the house uh put up some walls and uh put in a bathroom and stuff like that uh [speaker002:] about two years ago we bought a house out at Smithville which is like forty miles east of Austin over toward Houston uh little old stucco house built in nineteen twenty one and uh [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah [speaker002:] we bought it to for to get for a weekend getaway and it needed a lot of work but we saw it when we first looked at it we can do this and uh sure enough uh it's oh nineteen months later we sold it for twenty six and we bought it for sixteen five [speaker001:] wow that's pretty good yeah [speaker002:] and we did things like paint uh inside and outside and basically repaired the garages we put in expensive ceiling fans which was kind of dumb on my part but it was something I thought the place needed because it had real high ceilings and uh just and just in general did everything we uh put in a hot water heater a new toilet and things like that kind of remodeled the kitchen cabinets [speaker001:] oh yeah um-hum do you think it was worth uh the ceiling fans on your resale [speaker002:] well we weren't think talking about reselling it when we started doing it we were looking for something to do on weekends [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and it because my wife loves to pick out paint and experiment and if it doesn't work try another color things like that so but when the offer came to us it was from a neighbor and they wanted their mother close to them and we thought well you know we're not we hadn't been out here but what once in three months and and we had just bought this house in Austin so we thought well what the heck let's make a little money on it [speaker001:] oh yeah sure well sounds good you think you'll do it again some time [speaker002:] yeah I'd like to uh we have bought new homes in the past and and we'll never do that again because it was just boring for after about a week [speaker001:] hum is that right yeah [speaker002:] yeah so uh out in New Mexico one time we bought a really run down oh terribly run down home and uh it took us a year and a half to turn it around and make almost forty five thousand in profit on it and that was just [speaker001:] oh it sounds like you've got a good bit of experience in that [speaker002:] yeah uh it's just we you know we map out what we want to do and we go for it uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] whoever's got time to do it and course you get the major things done like your you know have the floors redone or have carpet put in whatever but the rest of it we usually do ourselves [speaker001:] sure we're thinking about possibly building a house now we aren't real sure whether we're gonna be able to do that or not but we just talked to a builder today as a matter of fact you know just uh beginning to think about sketching out some plans and talked about some of the different uh ways to go on you know different things [speaker002:] yeah I uh I think about that from time to time because we've never actually you know built one that we wanted you know the way we wanted it and things like that but I'm not sure that our interest is that piqued in it to do something like that [speaker001:] yeah it sounds like you're uh really into uh remodeling what you get [speaker002:] yeah renovation renovation is kind of where we're at like our our favorite TV program is This Old House has been for many years [speaker001:] yeah okay [speaker002:] and we would like to get ahold of something really old and redo it uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] there again we might go back out to Smithville and buy another home and because they're so it's a town that time has passed by so there are a lot of old big homes and they're fairly inexpensive [speaker001:] oh yeah um-hum how far away from Austin is it [speaker002:] so it's forty miles uh it's on the it's on the river and it's a quite nice little town they've been able to keep out a lot of businesses and things I mean there's no KMarts or anything like that around so [speaker001:] oh yeah oh yeah [speaker002:] makes it kind of nice [speaker001:] ever are you um looking to get

[speaker001:] I said Arlington, Texas because the other day, I was talking with somebody and he was in Arlington, Virginia [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, no. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's the only one I've got now for this area. [speaker002:] Oh, gosh, oh, gosh. [speaker001:] Well, anyway, we've got a easy subject. [speaker002:] Yes, we do. [speaker001:] You go ahead first, if you'd like. [speaker002:] Okay, let me think here. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] Favorite, I haven't been watching much T V lately [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, you know [speaker002:] I used to. [speaker001:] you get so busy. [speaker002:] Yeah, I have, uh, I have one favorite soap opera. I still watch and I tape because I'm not home [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, uh, let's see, that's GENERAL HOSPITAL, and then, uh, at night, uh, I don't, uh, when I sit down, I don't usually sit down till almost nine o'clock [speaker001:] I know. [speaker002:] when my kids get in bed and, and, uh, then I watch, uh, what do I watch at nine o'clock. Let's see, oh, well, Tuesday nights I guess, we try to catch a couple of the shows that the kids like. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] And, uh, [speaker001:] Are they little? [speaker002:] I have a seven year old and a ten year old. [speaker001:] Yeah, they're pretty young. [speaker002:] And, uh, so we usually catch, uh, FULL HOUSE, and, uh, what's the one comes on after that. It's a new one, uh, [lipsmack], [speaker001:] I don't know, my kids are older [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so I don't, I don't know some of those shows now, like I used to [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. Uh, other than that, uh, oh, gosh. I watch KNOTS LANDING on Thursday nights, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] for pure entertainment, nothing else. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Well I, I like the comedies. They're just light, too. I have to watch MURPHY BROWN I really like, [speaker002:] Oh, now that is a good one. [speaker001:] I make a point of [speaker002:] That is. [speaker001:] that. [speaker002:] Yeah, if I'm home on Mondays, then I, I definitely watch her. [speaker001:] I love that and I really like COACH. I think it's, when it's good, it's just a scream. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, well, he's a good actor. He really is good. [speaker001:] Well, he's probably playing himself. Half the time you see these people on an interview show, they're, they act just like they do in their parts [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] He, I saw him on JOHNNY CARSON once and he acted about the same [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, God. Well, he could very well be [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, and, uh, [speaker002:] So, do you watch much T V, or, [speaker001:] Well, I watch more now because, well I, I had been going to school for years and have really been too busy [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but this semester I'm only taking one course and so I see MURPHY BROWN and COACH and THE WONDER YEARS. I just make a point of seeing those. [speaker002:] Now, I never see that. Well, I've got a friend that says that is just wonderful show. [speaker001:] Oh, it's fabulous. Really, you should never miss that. It, they are just gems of shows. [speaker002:] Oh, nice. [speaker001:] I mean, they really, fabulous in every way [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] What, now what night is that on now? [speaker001:] Oh, that's Wednesday at, uh, seven thirty. [speaker002:] Wednesday at seven thirty, oh, okay. Yeah, Wednesdays I, I go to church choir, so [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] That's my one night out and about, so, [speaker001:] Sure, yeah, well, maybe, maybe your husband could tape it for you sometime. [speaker002:] Yeah, I should get him to do that. [speaker001:] Just so you get the idea. It wouldn't take, [speaker002:] Because I know, [speaker001:] Wouldn't take much to get hooked on those [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, so, I watch those. [speaker002:] Are there any new ones this year that came out that you like or, [speaker001:] Well, you know, I haven't, oh, yeah, we started watching NORTHERN EXPOSURE. Well, it's not really new, but it's still kind of new. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. How's that? I haven't seen that. [speaker001:] I like it a lot. It's real different. In fact, they never thought it would be a hit. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] I mean, they'll have some things in there that almost, almost, you know, like supernatural, or something, you know, I mean, somebody will see a figure from the past that nobody else does or, I mean, it sounds weird, but, it's very, uh, unique show and very well done. [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] Excellent actors. [speaker002:] I'll have to watch for that. [speaker001:] I, I guess we just, it came on after something we used to watch [speaker002:] Uh-huh, uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I guess we just kept sitting there and then now we make a point of watching [LAUGHTER]. I can't take all these shows on because next semester I'm not going to be able to watch hardly any television. [speaker002:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well then, it will be mostly reruns, I guess [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] And by the end of February, the way they do it nowadays. [speaker002:] Gosh. [speaker001:] But, uh, [speaker002:] Well, we used to watch a lot of DESIGNING WOMEN, but, uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I haven't seen that much lately. [speaker001:] Yeah, I've seen that. [speaker002:] Since they got rid of, uh, Delta Burke and, uh [speaker001:] Was she the, was she the best one? [speaker002:] brought on the new ones. [speaker001:] Was she the best one on that old show? [speaker002:] Oh, she was just funny. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] She was really funny. And her character was good. I don't know that it was her in particular [speaker001:] Right, right. [speaker002:] but just the character. So, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah, they had a big fight on that show, didn't they? [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] They were all accusing each other of everything in the world [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Oh, that was awful and who knows still, what ha-, really happened, you know. [speaker001:] Well, I know, gosh, you never will, probably. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah, so, [speaker001:] Well, I think the latest soap opera for people is the Kennedy trial for those who have cable. [speaker002:] Oh, I know. [speaker001:] I don't have cable. [speaker002:] Now I told, no, we don't have that station either, so, uh, I haven't been able to catch any of that, but just what little we caught on the news. [speaker001:] It's just as wild as any soap opera, from what I hear on the news. [speaker002:] Oh, I know it. [speaker001:] And I think he's guilty as the devil. [speaker002:] Well, I don't see how he couldn't be, you know. [speaker001:] I know, what's in it for her. There's never anything for you to go to trial as a witness in a case like that. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's right. [speaker001:] Because you know they tear you to shreds, especially those rich [speaker002:] Oh, and they said [speaker001:] high powered lawyers. [speaker002:] this lawyer is unbelievable. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] But, they said she held up so well yesterday. [speaker001:] I know, everybody was saying that and then, in the paper said it so, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] It should be interesting. [speaker002:] Oh, God. [speaker001:] Well, the NATIONAL ENQUIRER says [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I was reading that in the supermarket line. I never have the nerve to buy the thing. Uh, [speaker002:] Oh, shoot, well, do you watch any, uh [speaker001:] Says he, [speaker002:] any sports or anything like that or, [speaker001:] No, I don't care anything about that. [speaker002:] Because I don't either. I can't, I can't watch it on T V, so [children], [speaker001:] I like the ice skating, you know, occasionally, some ice skating will come on, on a Sunday or during the Olympics [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I always watch that. I think it's so beautiful. [speaker002:] Yeah, I like to catch the gymnastics sometimes, too. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, that's good.

[speaker001:] do you have any children [speaker002:] yeah I have two two boys twelve and sixteen [speaker001:] twelve and sixteen [speaker002:] um-hum how about you [speaker001:] well I have three and uh they're five and three and nineteen months [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so we kind of got a different ball game but uh [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] what uh do you feel like you have anytime to spend with them [speaker002:] well [speaker001:] they're probably at an age where they don't wanna spend anytime with their parents parents [speaker002:] that's true you actually of course spend less time with them when they get older but it's of course still really important um [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I have a kind of a fortunate situation I think right now with my sixteen year old um I work two nights a week at a I'm a librarian and I work two nights a week at the senior high school library they keep it open you know for kids to [speaker001:] oh uh-huh [speaker002:] do their work and he um and then they the school district hires an aide you know to work for me well my son is my aide [speaker001:] right sure oh well that's nice [speaker002:] so two nights a week for four hours we're stuck together and there's usually not very much business I mean some nights it's just real real quiet so [speaker001:] you're stuck together no I would suspect your nights would be pretty quiet for the most part [speaker002:] yeah so we I have sort of a captive audience so I really do spend probably more time with him than than most you know but um of course I'm away from my other son those hours too but his dad's at home [speaker001:] right and so that kind of gives him uh time with his dad then gives him a little bit of that individual time [speaker002:] pretty much that time yeah that's true yeah but but it is hard once they get that age I mean their friends are the most important thing there is [speaker001:] right and they want to be able to spend uh [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] well I've even noticed that with my five year old she started kindergarten this year and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] everyday that she's not at school uh she thinks we need to have someone over and play [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and that kind of yeah it's hard I think uh I find myself getting my little projects going and [speaker002:] yeah it's kind of hard [speaker001:] not taking the time that I should I'm more worried about oh I didn't get this done I didn't get the kitchen needs to be cleaned this needs to be done and and I need to remind [speaker002:] yeah um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] remind remind myself to slow down and it'll still be there tomorrow but that's kind of hard to do you know you don't see yourself getting [speaker002:] right yeah that's true yes it is hard to do right yeah well if you're kind of a person that likes things you know organized or neat or you know [speaker001:] um-hum right [speaker002:] then I think it that it is hard it's um I think one of the nice things about holidays is that you know it does give you the opportunity to spend more time [speaker001:] slow down a little bit um-hum [speaker002:] yeah with family we have we often go to Illinois [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] for Christmas and we're not this year and it's just really nice because we can do you know the things you want to do and [speaker001:] you can do a lot more than [speaker002:] yeah just yeah that's right [speaker001:] than when you travel this is the first year we're staying home too and uh I think it's going to be real quiet but uh that's an opportunity to get out the games and [speaker002:] yeah right we usually do that my my kids even have already gotten out um my twelve year old got out the Legos which of course he hasn't touched since last summer [speaker001:] right of course of course [speaker002:] but you know but every now and then I mean he's got a lot of those technical those hard kind you know and he wants to be an engineer so he still likes all that kind of building stuff and um we have the train and we haven't had that Lego train together for years [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and um so he sat down and I told him I really wanted him to build the train and we would put it under the tree and that I would keep it together I wouldn't take it apart [speaker001:] can't wouldn't take it apart after that [speaker002:] yeah and every year I'd have the Lego train under the tree [speaker001:] that'd be kind of fun [speaker002:] and um so he worked on that for the longest time ever since school was out on Friday and um then his sixteen year old brother started helping too you know so you know it was just kind of things like during the normal rat race those kinds of things never happen but um [speaker001:] right right no no in fact in I think if a people would learn to turn off the TVs and I think that's a lot of the breakdown of the communication [speaker002:] um-hum yeah yes yeah [speaker001:] any communication that would take place in a family uh usually people are ending up sitting in front of that [speaker002:] which is um-hum and there's always a few people in the family that when they stare at it you know they're totally turned off to everything else the rest of [speaker001:] yes you can't communicate while you're doing that right [speaker002:] no that's right [speaker001:] whereas uh I'm the type of person I could not sit sit still well I shouldn't say I could not but be very hard for me to sit down and watch a program all the way through without doing something [speaker002:] yeah yeah me too yeah I don't watch very much of it at all even to to the extent that sometimes I feel almost embarrassed at work and stuff like that people are [speaker001:] because they talk so much isn't that the [speaker002:] yeah they talk about TV shows and I'm huh you know don't you watch that you know it's the best show on I go no but [speaker001:] you're kind of like what what are you talking about and uh you feel like you're a little bit out of it don't you they need to have a highlight in the newspaper or something tell us what's the

[speaker001:] Golfer? [speaker002:] Well, yes, I am as a matter of fact. [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] Not a good one, but I am a golfer. [speaker001:] Well, that's about the way I am. I don't consider myself a good one, but I do enjoy it. [speaker002:] I, uh, haven't been out all year. I didn't get out this year, but, uh, I enjoy both watching it and playing it. [speaker001:] I usually play a couple of times a month. Sometimes more, but lately it's been just about that. But, I do enjoy, I think the, one of the things I enjoy the most is the beauty of the golf courses. [speaker002:] Yes, and, the, the peacefulness. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. You can get out there, [speaker002:] And the little critters that are around. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's really neat. You can just get out there and lose yourself in it and forget everything else in the world except what you're seeing out there. [speaker002:] That's right and it's such a personal challenge. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, yeah, it really is. [speaker002:] More than competitiveness against someone else. It's, it's a competitiveness against yourself. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] And, you know, it's so frustrating, I keep wondering sometimes why do I do this because it's so frustrating. You think you do pretty good one day and you're doing a whole lot better, you know, and then all of a sudden you go back out and it's just terrible. [speaker002:] Well, you'll, [speaker001:] You can't do anything, [speaker002:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker001:] right [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Or you'll hear thirty and think, boy [speaker001:] Boy, I'm improving. [speaker002:] I got my game together. I've had a par and a birdie, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and a bogey and then you quadruple bogey [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Uh-huh [LAUGHTER]. And you think, my goodness, why did I think I was doing better [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Being down there, do you, uh, get to see, like the colonial or any of those? [speaker001:] I don't, I guess I could. I've never been to a golf, to a major golf tournament. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] I, uh, watch them on T V a lot. [speaker002:] You really should go at least once. You know, we've [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] had, uh, the P G A up here. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, a-, and in Tulsa and I've been to both of them and it's [breathing], it is so much fun to [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] see these players you see on T V to, and to hear that ball go whizzing by. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I mean, it's, it's like a bullet going by. [speaker001:] I'll bet, um. [speaker002:] And, you know, to, to see their concentration and yet to see them, how friendly they are when they're, walk by you, you know, and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] how good they are to their spectators. [speaker001:] Well, I've only been playing like about three years now. My husband's played for twenty-five. But, I just took it up about three years ago and, uh, we play in a lot of couple's scramble tournaments. We belong to a country club a little ways outside of Dallas, and [speaker002:] Both, [speaker001:] we have developed a tremendous number of friends that [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] couples do this and, you know, it's fun to go on vacations and things and go to golf courses. [speaker002:] Yes, it is. [speaker001:] You can meet some really neat people. [speaker002:] The scrambles are fun. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, they really are. I just love them. [speaker002:] I belong to the country club there in El Reno when I lived there and [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] it, you know, it, it's fun because it's so uncompetitive. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You really, on those, you really go out for fun. [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] And, you know, you won't, you know you're stroke is just one of one or two or three [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or four, you know, that's going to make any difference. [speaker001:] That's right. And you just do your own thing and be relaxed and enjoy it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's right. I used to, when I worked at Kerr McGee, I used to play in their tournaments. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] And, uh, now that was very competitive. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] And, I enjoyed it tremendously, but, uh, I, I'm more, I think I get more enjoyment just couple friends going out. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And if, if it takes one of us ten shots to get up to the green, so be it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You know, we just think, well, the next time has got to be better [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, I have never played in any tournament except just a scramble. They have a lot of them there at the club, you know, they have A B C D type tournaments and then they, they have the club championships and everything with the women's slots as well, but, I don't know, I've just never really gotten into that. Now, my husband and all the men, I mean, they love the real competitiveness of playing for money, you know. [speaker002:] Oh, yes, every hole. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. But I, I'm not good enough for that [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Does your club have a good woman's association? [speaker001:] Yes, they do. I don't do much with it since, uh, most of theirs, they have a traveling league, and, uh, most of their meetings and all are during the week and I don't, don't get to play except on the weekend. I work during the week all the time. [speaker002:] It's hard to be a weekend golfer and improve your game. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Someday when I, I get where I live closer to the club and partially retired, maybe I'll, uh, be able to play a little more but, [speaker002:] It, uh, it's, it's a, it's a good game. I, uh, I wish I had more time to play and I felt, you know, had more energy to play it, too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh.

[speaker001:] alrighty ladies first [speaker002:] oh no well I don't find a lot of time to watch TV and a lot of the time I find it during the day when I'm rocking my little girl to sleep so I watch a lot of reruns old shows [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] like Dick Van Dyke and all those old crazy shows [speaker001:] Barney Fife I guess yeah [speaker002:] yeah I really enjoy watching Andy Griffith [speaker001:] well something well so are you a homemaker I guess that's the the right term nowadays [speaker002:] yeah yeah I guess so yeah I am I stay home with two kids and [speaker001:] yeah well my wife we have a new one in the house and she's she's stays home too also [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] um I guess I have a wide variety I like watching the TV for things that are interesting not so much the the boring the uh the things that aren't for example like the Cosby Show to me is just kind of like a waste of my time and and Different Strokes and but I like Sixty Minutes Prime Time Live um course I have to watch cartoons on Saturday morning but not the Ninja Turtle ones I like the old-timey ones Tom and Jerry [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah you sound like my husband he really likes Tom and Jerry and uh Bugs Bunny and all his friends and all those guys [speaker001:] there you go that's right Johnny Quest you know the good ones um now I'll if I'm ever home during the during the day on a vacation day I'd I have to catch at twelve o'clock the Andy Griffith Show because he's just you know he's one of my idles and then uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] but I don't know it just seems like that nowadays everything's so electronic you know and magnified and and animated that you can grab from the old style movies and old style shows a little bit more insight to family groupings and and so uh [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] uh now I do with the Cosby Show I have seen it a couple of times and and I do I I like the show I just don't watch it because of the timing but uh some of the crap that's on TV nowadays and [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] it's bad I do watch the special shows that they come out with the the Nova stuff and and the nature shows [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] but um I think there's enough out there to pick from I'm not we don't have cable to the point of of of the HBO or any of that stuff and but uh yeah [speaker002:] yeah well I find myself watching just a whole lot of whatever is geared for children because with two kids and you know I don't want them watching something that I don't think they should watch I I used to be really hooked on All My Children and I watched that for like [speaker001:] um-hum sure oh me [speaker002:] oh ten or fifteen straight years [speaker001:] oh no [speaker002:] and then I had well you know I'd eat like at lunch at work we'd have a TV or whatever and then um as my kids got older and started you know recognizing what was going on and I thought this isn't really very good [speaker001:] ouch fifteen years bet they hated that [speaker002:] so I gave it up yeah I had watched it I had watched it since it started so it was kind of but now I'd you know I didn't know who the characters are and um I'll turn it on every once in awhile don't recognize anybody so I guess that's a good sign [speaker001:] oh goodness yeah really I'll watch oh I I used to watch uh I can recall though this might age me uh date me here I can remember staying home when I was five and six and my mother watching The Edge of Night [speaker002:] uh-huh oh yeah well see you're probably about the same age as me because my mom watched The Secret Storm and The Edge of Night um-hum uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] Secret Storm though I think they were back to back on black and white okay I mean I'm just a youngster and I was like oh my gosh [speaker002:] yeah yeah we used to my mother watched all that stuff too and As As the World Turns I think As the World Turns may still I don't know if it's still on or not it was still not too long ago [speaker001:] well you know still be on yeah yeah now they got a lot other crap involved and so I don't know you're right I think some of the tones uh of the the the daily prime time is is questionable that could be uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] I have to agree with you you know keep them on that channel eleven channel twenty one the nature stuff you know [speaker002:] yeah right yeah yeah we do and it's real interesting too the difference in my kids like um my oldest loved Sesame Street and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] those kinds of shows my my younger one doesn't she's more into Walt Disney kind you know we watch a lot of movies that we've got on VCR you know on tapes and stuff she's more into the animated stuff where my other daughter liked puppets and that kind of thing so [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum hm uh yeah well [speaker002:] but uh we do a lot of kid watching [speaker001:] well sound like you got your hand fulls there and I do appreciate speaking with you [speaker002:] sure it was fun [speaker001:] have you gotten your catalog yet [speaker002:] no I don't think so [speaker001:] yeah I just spoke to the gentleman I just got mine the mail and I inspired me to make more phone calls [speaker002:] oh well see I haven't really I've had a few people call me but I've never made one so yeah I need to get brave [speaker001:] oh really check out your pen number [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's what I need to do [speaker001:] have a good day bye-bye [speaker002:] thanks good bye

[speaker001:] Okay Charles, uh, gun control, what are you, uh, for, in favor or no comment? [speaker002:] I'm very much in favor of gun control. [speaker001:] Oh, you are? [speaker002:] Yes I am. [speaker001:] Well, this should be very interesting, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] because I'm against it. [speaker002:] I don't, I don't mind people owning guns, I just think it should be a little, you know, a little, a little more regulated. [speaker001:] Well, you know, uh, now he-, here's something that, uh, first occurred to me when they started having all these problems with these automatic, uh, weapons. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] Uh, now there always has been a federal law against fully automatic weapons. [speaker002:] I believe that's correct, uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, yet, their, uh, the gun control enthusiasts are, are, uh, preaching about the gun control and how they should be, we should have stronger laws and what not. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I don't understand why we don't enforce the laws we have. [speaker002:] That would certainly help, I'm sure. [speaker001:] Now this is not just a state law, this is a federal law, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] controlled by the Treasury Department. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] Uh, for fully automatic weapons. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, all right, now for instance, [speaker002:] [Breathing]. [speaker001:] in California where they passed the uh, uh, semiautomatic [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or, or, uh, now what was it they called them? The military version, attack weapons, [speaker002:] Yeah, right, uh-huh. [speaker001:] or something? Uh, h-, how is that going to affect the, uh, sports weapons? I mean, rifles, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that are automatic or semiautomatic? [speaker002:] Yep. I really don't have any problem, Jack, with, you know, uh, people using firearms for sporting purposes. I don't have any problem, the only thing I, I am in favor of the seven-day waiting period. I would like to see that, see that happen. I, [speaker001:] Uh-huh, well, now, uh, I've got to admit I'm inclined to agree with you there [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, even though I am a member of the N R A, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they are again-, they, their reason being that well, if you let one little law get through, pretty soon one's going to stack up on top of another, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] and so forth and so on. [speaker002:] Yeah, I understand that. [speaker001:] And you've got to admit that Congress does kind of look at things that way. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, that's true. I, I, like I say, I don't have any problem with people using firearms, you know, for sporting purposes or hunting purposes, I just think it's just may be a little too easy you know, to acquire one. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] On, on a whim of some sort. [speaker001:] That, that's true. Uh, now did you hear about the, the control that they have up in Virginia? [speaker002:] I'm not sure I have. [speaker001:] Uh, it, it's, it's a little hard to believe, but they can, uh, of course, like just like just about every other state in the union they have a felony law. Anyone ever convicted of a, a felony is, cannot purchase a weapon. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Breathing] and they don't have a waiting period, [breathing] because they have access to computer records concerning all these felons. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And the-, uh, when you go in and buy a weapon or a handgun in, uh, uh, Virginia, [breathing] the salesman just calls some number and, uh, punches in your name, [breathing] and if it comes up negative, okay, fine, and you get your gwu-, your gun right then and there. [speaker002:] I see. [speaker001:] Uh, but they are the only state that does it. [speaker002:] Hm, that's interesting. [speaker001:] And, uh, according to Virginia, it didn't cost all that much. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [Breathing] and frankly, I, I don't understand why a state doesn't have those records available anyway. [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] Uh, uh, at least [speaker002:] yeah, you would think they would. [speaker001:] uh, records of, of, uh, known felons [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] which are available to local police departments. [speaker002:] Yeah, right. Yeah, I'm surprised that more states doesn't do that. [speaker001:] Uh, uh, uh, certainly those, those records are available, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and all they would have to do is expand it. [speaker002:] Yeah, right. [speaker001:] To, uh, uh, well, connect them into a modem somehow. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. I wouldn't think it'd be that difficult to do. [speaker001:] Well, Virginia is not a particularly rich state, and they managed to fi-, squeak out a few bucks to do it. [speaker002:] Yep, right. [speaker001:] And, uh, it's, uh, uh, one-hundred percent successful. [speaker002:] Hm, that's interesting. [speaker001:] Yeah, I just heard about this last week. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, they were bragging about it, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] with, uh, uh, they should have, have pride in this because it's, it's a good system, [speaker002:] Absolutely. [speaker001:] and it's working well. [speaker002:] Yeah, I agree. [speaker001:] And they don't need that seven-day waiting period. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Because the whole idea of that waiting period was, [speaker002:] [Breathing]. [speaker001:] so that, uh, it, [breathing] uh, the police could check up on you. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] [Breathing] Well, you know what's going to happen there, those files are going to back up on somebody's desk, just some of that typical bureaucratic work. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] that's another, uh, uh, thorn in my side, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] bureaucratics, [speaker002:] Yeah, right. I agree. [speaker001:] politicians. [speaker002:] Yep, right. I was, [speaker001:] So anyway [speaker002:] just thinking there's, [speaker001:] well, we seem to be one in favor and one against. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] yeah, I guess that's about right, [speaker001:] Although neither one of us are, are, uh, really uh, uh, dyed in the wool. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Uh, [speaker001:] Uh, we, but we both, [speaker002:] Yeah, I'm not totally rigid on the subject, I just think there should be, you know, shouldn't be quite so easy to do. [speaker001:] [Breathing] well, there should be some way of checking, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] now here in, in Texas, uh, all you need is a driver's license. [speaker002:] Right. Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, even felons can still get a driver's license. [speaker002:] Sure, uh, [speaker001:] So I, I don't think they are too, well, they're not rigid enough here, in Texas. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's true. [speaker001:] But don't tell the N R A I said that. [speaker002:] I wo-, I promise. I won't [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] They're liable to tear up my membership. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Okay, I promise [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] You say you retired a year ago? [speaker002:] Yes, I did, uh-huh. [speaker001:] I'm looking forward to it in about a, just, just over a year, myself. [speaker002:] Yeah, I really enjoy it. [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] I stay pretty busy. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I do quite a, not quite a lot, I do some, uh, volunteer work here in Plano. I, I have a few, uh, handicapped persons that I, you know, try to do things for, help them do. [speaker001:] Oh, uh-huh. Well, uh, I bought a motor home here f-, four years ago [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I have been living in it ever since, [speaker002:] That's, uh, [speaker001:] and I'm looking forward to just traveling. [speaker002:] Sure, I can understand that. [speaker001:] I have four sons scattered all over the country, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and a f-, few grandchildren. [speaker002:] Yep. [speaker001:] And I'm looking forward to just traveling around visiting them. [speaker002:] That'd be neat. Sure would. [speaker001:] [Breathing] Well Charles, good luck to you on your, [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] [Breathing]. [speaker002:] Nice talking to you. [speaker001:] Yeah, nice talking to you, [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] too. [speaker002:] Take care. [speaker001:] Take care now. [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye.

[speaker002:] okay what are you are you doing anything in Utah on recycling [speaker001:] well in uh our particular area uh we're not other than uh they have a local store that you can take uh bottles and cans and different things to [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] in their parking lot and uh in the winter we haven't been doing that but uh they don't uh that's about all they're doing [speaker002:] is it a small town [speaker001:] yes it's a rural area [speaker002:] that makes a difference uh here in Dallas they're trying to [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] to start some curbside recycling I think they're doing a test uh personally my husband and I do plastic and glass and newspaper and cans but we have to uh take them you know to to areas and the problem that I'm finding is that uh a lot of the places I've been taking things have now discontinued the recycling policy like it's hard to find a place to take newspapers anymore [speaker001:] um-hum yes so that's uh that's basically what happened up here and then uh with all the recycling the price of aluminum cans went down [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] yeah it used to be about sixty cents a pound and so people were collecting them and taking them in to recycle uh to get money for them now it's down to about nineteen cents a pound [speaker002:] well I noticed a difference uh we go to the Kroger store uh here to take our aluminum cans and I noticed a difference you know I'd be getting perhaps a dollar for whatever I took in and I think the last bunch I took in which I didn't think was much smaller was maybe twenty six cents [speaker001:] yeah that's that's what's happened and I don't know if that's from recycling I I understand it is but here uh we do we do recycle our newspapers and give them to the scouts and they uh they're able to make some money uh that way but I have a son in Illinois who uh they pick it up they have a a recycling uh garbage uh pick up where they have different uh receptacles where they put it in they have some for the cans some for the bottles and newspapers and then they have the regular garbage and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] this truck comes before the garbage truck and picks uh and has separate bins to put all the glass and the plastic and all that in that seems to be working quite well there that's uh in uh Illinois [speaker002:] well you know what is so sad is that people are finally I think willing to do something about this and then all of a sudden uh the the demand isn't there you know it's too expensive to recycle but I personally feel that we're going to have to [speaker001:] yes uh-huh [speaker002:] pay the price you know whether the government subsidizes it and I'm you know I sorry to the government government get involved in too much of anything else like that but something has to be done we're just uh we're using our natural resources we're filling up the dumps and [speaker001:] yeah um-hum well I've that's what they in the local the local paper here they were talking about that uh half about half the uh the material in the dumps is newspapers [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] they could recycle that uh more than they do then uh um we'd be able to save a lot of trees and everything else so I've been I I I'm all for it I just don't know uh I know my son uh in Chicago where he has this they have uh uh they have to pay extra to have them pick it up even though and and so that's kind of a a burden on my uh my son even though they they put it in different containers they still have to pay extra money to do [speaker002:] uh-huh well and I know uh too my mother lives in a rural area also and it she would have to go like thirty miles to recycle anything and so course so of course she she doesn't and plus uh it's difficult for her to [speaker001:] and uh um [speaker002:] drive around just all that much so in a case like that you know they have to make it a little bit easier for people [speaker001:] yes they do [speaker002:] to do that [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] and um I'm hoping that they do this curbside recycling I'll be willing to pay a little extra you know if they'll go ahead and pick it up quite frankly it'll save me money in gas running around all over town [speaker001:] right yep boy that's true [speaker002:] and I take my uh paper I always get paper bags and I take them back to the grocery store and use them again [speaker001:] hm right [speaker002:] so you know little bit here and little bit there I guess it all helps [speaker001:] yeah yeah it it really does if we could just get uh people uh all over to do it now I know in uh south of us about a hundred miles south in Utah they do have a uh area where uh they bring all the garbage in and they uh they do have places to recycle and they really encourage this and uh you can bring it and you have different areas um that's a small yeah well it's next to Provo Utah I don't know if you're familiar with Utah at all but anyway [speaker002:] not a lot but I've heard the name Provo before [speaker001:] it's where Brigham Brigham Young University is uh this [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] uh there they seem to be having success and but it is a uh it's done by the it for profit making for these people [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and they of course are

[speaker001:] okay so I guess it starts recording now [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] I don't know really know that much about the recycling in this area that we're in we live in the Saginaw area [speaker002:] Saginaw [speaker001:] um-hum and I'm not real familiar with uh anything that I in fact the far as I know the school doesn't have any kind of programs or anything out here and uh or the grocery story or anything in this area yeah [speaker002:] really the recycling we live in Plano and they started off recycling by um putting the I think at each Wal-Mart they had some recycling dumpsters and things like that which it now I guess the uh city has has bought these big green trash cans and uh we they have a recycling truck that comes around now and you separate your glass and paper [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh aluminum and you set it out and they pick it up and it it works real neat they seem to be having a real good response [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] but [speaker001:] that is pretty good I'm we're originally from another state and I know in the state we were from that they did that type similar type thing the city brought out you know separate trash separate trash cans and you separated your stuff and you put it in there and they took it you know [speaker002:] did they did they like on bottles did they give you a so many cents back for [speaker001:] I don't really know I don't really know they they started after we moved down here and so I I'm not really familiar I just know that and my in-laws up in up in Oklahoma that's how they do you know they pick it up but I don't know if they get a [speaker002:] for cans even I've seen that in really [speaker001:] get anything back on it or do you get money for it [speaker002:] no I've just I noticed in Iowa and other cities like that it's a nickel per aluminum can [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] so you don't see too many thrown out around the streets [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] even bottles you know all kinds of bottles they they they really charge people to uh I guess when you purchase them and and then when you turn them back in [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I know I remember the old days as a kid where a bottle was a nickel and [speaker001:] right and now now most of them are the throwaway [speaker002:] right so maybe that's one thing they could do to [speaker001:] and yeah I think now they're a lot more expensive than that um I bought some Cokes the other day in the bread the little bottles [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] you know and I think the bottles were like I know they were at least ten cents apiece I was trying to figure out how I was like God how much were those bottles you know and it was they come in like uh eight and and eight and ten packs you know [speaker002:] well that's right [speaker001:] instead of six packs and uh and they were like it was like two dollars and something for the bottles you know I was like God Almighty costs more for the bottles than it did for the Cokes [speaker002:] that was my brother's first job in a grocery store he was in the bottle area [speaker001:] we're gonna bump our heads what a job [speaker002:] it's pretty dangerous out there you know when they fall over but but it's uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] it's quite they say that the green glass now that there's a big glut [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] of green [speaker001:] of green glass [speaker002:] with the green glass yeah it's amazing [speaker001:] uh well out in this area they really don't have anything now I know that like Minyard's [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and places like that around like Arlington and Fort Worth and a lot of those grocery stores they have like four different bins out front [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] yeah different colors for different things and and things like that but I I did know some of these places were doing that and they discontinued them because people coming and dumping their trash in them [speaker002:] right yeah it's I notice the plastics have sort of faded away the milk jugs it it's [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] people just they they really don't uh there's too much labor involved I guess to separate the stuff [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] yeah it's I don't know it it can be it's not as easy [speaker001:] more than it's worth [speaker002:] collecting you know clean junk as they say [speaker001:] right right well who wants to clean their junk before they throw it away [speaker002:] that's right that's right it's like washing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher [speaker001:] right I know [speaker002:] we all do it well it was nice talking to you [speaker001:] it was nice talking to you I have no idea how long this is supposed to last or anything [speaker002:] well I think I think two or three minutes is fine and yeah [speaker001:] it is that it okay well it was nice talking to you and I I guess I'll do this for I was doing this from actually I was gonna do it for my son so that he could uh he he's in high school so that he could uh make some money [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and but then it has my name on it so I'm like okay I'll sit down here and call it [speaker002:] oh we're doing it for a church choir so [speaker001:] oh are you [speaker002:] yeah so [speaker001:] oh that's interesting that's nice well thank you good-bye [speaker002:] well thank you bye bye

[speaker001:] well do you think we're paying too much in taxes right now [speaker002:] well frankly I think we're paying too little I think we have paid too little since Reagan and them decided to cut it uh I used to get these uh surveys from the Republican Party from time to time asking if I thought it was a good idea for them to cut taxes and I kept saying no I felt like what we ought to do is cut spending and keep taxes the way they were well granted maybe the only way they could keep the spending to be uh that is curtail the spending and cut it was to cut taxes forcing spending to have to be cut but uh I always felt like the Congress uh just ought to shoulder responsibilities of biting the bullet uh that they uh uh are are supposed to be able to uh you know handle shoulder [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and uh cut their spending and if they had uh done that without cutting taxes we wouldn't find ourselves in economic quagmire we're in now [speaker001:] yeah well I think too many people are not paying enough taxes some are paying too much uh the the middle class but the uh upper class the wealthy people are not paying enough [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I think the legislation that there ought to be legislation that make makes it more equitable for uh depending on how much you earn [speaker002:] are you so you like the progressive income tax [speaker001:] yeah I sure do uh-huh I we think everybody ought to be paying their fair share there still too many loopholes available to to get by with [speaker002:] well well I I thought they had closed most of the uh loopholes when they came out with this uh pretty well constant fixed tax type uh about the only well I know there are a few you're right about that but primarily the only thing that was supposed to be any longer tax deductible was your your first and second home mortgages the interest that is [speaker001:] yeah right [speaker002:] and that was about it now I think there are still some real estate oriented type tax hedges [speaker001:] they cut it back on rental property income [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] that uh you can't uh get uh tax deductions on uh say a second third fourth house that you own on paying uh taxes on on that [speaker002:] yeah well that's where the rich see uh certainly have a second third fourth and fifth house [speaker001:] right and they also cut back on things like limited partnerships [speaker002:] right uh in what way what loopholes then are are left that you're talking about [speaker001:] well the maximum tax bracket is twenty eight percent [speaker002:] right well thirty three if you're in that hump but [speaker001:] so nobody can pay any higher than right [speaker002:] yeah but uh uh uh I I felt like they ought to cut the capital gains tax [speaker001:] I think that's right too I agree with that [speaker002:] because it it for for once finally with taxes having been cut it makes the little investor like myself capable if you're able to set aside a little money aside to do a little investing and make a few bucks without getting it all taken away from you [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and you ought to get your salary taxed once and if you're able to save some money to be able to invest in stocks and bonds and various things like that then to get it stuck to you again seems just a little bit unfair [speaker001:] right I'm saying the way our taxes are structured right now it does not encourage saving [speaker002:] no it really doesn't but on the other hand how how um how would we change it to encourage saving [speaker001:] um well that that's a good question [speaker002:] and go back to things like tax free IRAs and like that they wound up coming back [speaker001:] yeah I agree with that that that's I uh [speaker002:] okay yeah I thought that was a good move too that certainly in [speaker001:] yeah I think I wish we would do that I'm in a bracket right now where I cannot take advantage of an IRA getting a tax deduction on it [speaker002:] I hear you [speaker001:] I used to be able to do that but uh I can't now and so then there's also the problem now where I've got some contributions that were tax deductible and some that aren't and I have to keep those separate [speaker002:] yeah and now that right yeah and that's absolutely unfair I agree and it seems like every time Congress and and and uh the presidency gets a set up like the had now see that's the kind of tax cuts I'm for not necessarily just a a broad range tax cut on salaries so much but tax cuts where they don't tax savings of various kinds you know savings where you're willing to tie your money up at least some minimum period of time some some uh minimum number of years and all like like IRAs were uh it it that that those are reasonable alternatives that the average person can get in on and not just the rich alone [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but uh uh seems like every time that uh people begin to make a little money at that and a lot of people jumped on IRAs I mean you did you apparently you apparently did and a lot of people I know did too [speaker001:] oh I still do contribute to an IRA even though I can't take advantage of any tax breaks [speaker002:] yeah yeah well I'm in one too but it seems like as soon as they uh got to going like gangbusters and the Congress saw that big pile of money beginning to form out there they wanted to come in and tax it again [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and and uh that that's only again because they would not uh uh police themselves and their spending [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I I don't know I I don't know what else to do about it I mean seems like we are are are constantly reelecting Republican presidents and Democratic Congresses or Democratic presidents and Republican Congresses and they can't ever seem to get together [speaker001:] yeah well I think one of the things that may maybe does encourage encourage uh saving in a small way is that you can't write off taxes on personal spending uh that may keep a again that may cause a recession as well though because it keeps people from going going out and charging their credit cards uh to the max [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and it cuts down on uh how much uh spending were their going to uh do for the year [speaker002:] do you think this latest interest cut rate cut that the Fed just went through is going to uh get people back on the spending [speaker001:] I'm not so sure about that uh we're still uh in a recession as such and uh it that tax that cut in the in the the prime has not encouraged activity in the market yet [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh uh-huh [speaker001:] I think people are going to follow the stock market if if it takes off uh that's a good indicator that the economy is turning around and people are going to start spending again right now a lot of people are fearful about their jobs [speaker002:] well oh yeah I know exactly how you feel [speaker001:] there are a lot of layoffs uh you know unemployment's way up and uh they're just saving money uh until things get better [speaker002:] right uh-huh uh-huh I uh was talking to a fellow today and he seemed to think it was going to make a difference but I said hey if a lot of people are all ready borrowed up to the hilt I don't care how cut low you cut taxes they can't afford to borrow anymore or they won't just because they want to try to get a handle on what they have that you you've got to cut them drastically such that the uh idea of refinancing at a lower interest rate becomes the thing to do [speaker001:] right well you can do that with say a mortgage payment but they charge so many points in order to refinance a lot of people can't afford that [speaker002:] yeah and that's right or or less the break is considerable between the the interest rates and the cut between say eleven percent mortgage down to no more than nine percent mortgage that's not enough you've got to get down to eight maybe even seven and a half [speaker001:] yeah well that's basically what we're doing right now is uh people a lot of people have eleven percent mortgages and they can get nine percent now but it costs them three points to do that [speaker002:] yeah and that's not enough you need a eight percent loan to be able to do that [speaker001:] three percent of yeah three percent of their mortgage mortgage right now or or of the uh principal that's left on their loan is uh a significant chunk of change [speaker002:] that's right [speaker001:] and uh a lot of people aren't aren't in a position to take advantage of that [speaker002:] so I I I'm not so sure myself that uh that cutting interest rates is going to do it or cutting taxes either I just think we've gotten ourselves so uh gone through such a uh uh period of time where we've been so credit hungry and um we have gotten uh u h so out on a limb in debt not only uh federal debt but consumer debt too that uh I'm really concerned whether any kind of taxation one way or the other is going to make a difference [speaker001:] yeah well another thing that uh kind of irks me right now is I just got my tax appraisal on my house and it went up ten thousand dollars from last year [speaker002:] uh uh-huh well you know that's what's happened to me I got my appraisal well we get them up here they give them to you three years out [speaker001:] there's uh-huh [speaker002:] I mean you you get one every year but it it it puts in at a what they expect it to be for the next three years you know based on what it is right now subject to change of course [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh real estate values up here in in the uh uh uh eastern corridor have dropped about two and a half to five percent [speaker001:] real estate values here have dropped at least ten percent over the past uh two years [speaker002:] okay well see the pressure's is more up here so it hasn't dropped quite as bad because the population being what it is but nevertheless it's dropped [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] but uh this hasn't been reflected in my appraisals and I was just telling my wife the other night you know I says I I wonder who it is you talk to here in the state about about protesting this because if and only uh interest rates I'm sorry uh property values don't come back up which means I can see that I can uh get again at least what I could have gotten for my house a year ago then I'm not being fairly appraised [speaker001:] right there's no justification here for an increase in uh the value of a home the property values are still going down and I'm not sure they've hit the bottom yet [speaker002:] um in the Texas area [speaker001:] so uh when when they yes when they all of a sudden increase with all the layoffs and what not uh real estate prices have not been going up [speaker002:] uh-huh ha [speaker001:] uh there's too many too many homes on the market right now too many people are just bailing out on their homes and leaving them their abandoning abandoning their homes [speaker002:] uh-huh is a lot of that going on [speaker001:] oh yes there's two homes on my street right now that sure [speaker002:] um that's going to put the banks in dire straights because the banks don't want the property they want the money [speaker001:] that's right there are a lot of banks that are in trouble we've had banks that have been closing for the past two years in Texas we've got a record number of banks that have been gone all ready gone under [speaker002:] yeah well do you see where the tax situation could really help that any [speaker001:] uh no I don't I think that's mostly with the economy and the job market [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I think it's unfair that uh the tax appraisal has gone up this year when in fact the uh the value of the homes has not [speaker002:] oh I do too yeah yeah I think it's absolutely unfair but they've gotten into this mentality and uh I don't think they know how to appraise a house down [speaker001:] yeah I don't know how what they use to justify that uh because say I've got the same model home as some of my neighbors and they're all appraised at the same level [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] even though I've made more improvements on my house than somebody else has and nobody comes out to take a look and see what you've done to get a proper appraisal [speaker002:] now out here they do they take pictures of house and everything and what they do is they look at what your particular model at least three of them have sold for within the last twelve months or later if if they have the data they don't always have that much data because they may not have sold that many of your model [speaker001:] okay uh-huh [speaker002:] but here they could for instance I I've had to they do it randomly more or less but they try to get three at a time over a twelve month period because uh one of the houses I sold I'm in my third house now I uh my second house I actually had an appraiser come out and take pictures of it uh that he had to go

[speaker001:] so what do you think uh do you know any people from Puerto Rico [speaker002:] uh yes I I used to work with a guy from Puerto Rico when I worked for Hewlett Packard [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] and uh he was a native and had gone to school there and got transferred to Colorado where I was living [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh and he had some interesting times getting used to it um the United States the the language was a little bit different although he did speak English [speaker001:] yeah have you ever been there [speaker002:] it was just some of the excuse me [speaker001:] have you ever been there [speaker002:] I've never been there my dad used to work for DuPont and they built a chemical plant down there I almost moved there when I was in high school [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] no I've never been there either I've not known but just a few people from there [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] one uh there was a girl in in my flight in in uh Air Force basic training actually who was from there [speaker002:] uh-huh okay uh my dad flew down there for about a year he was down there about once a month one week per month [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I wanted to move there it sounded like uh a neat place to live an island in the sun you know and uh [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] it turned out my mom was the only one in the family that didn't want to go because she didn't play golf or tennis and there wasn't really a job for her there [speaker001:] it always sounds more oh its I think I think everything always sounds more glamorous than it really is [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] every because I spent five years in Europe and everybody goes oh you're so lucky and I'm like well yeah sort of you know it's but having lived there it's not it's not anything like you picture it [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah right [speaker001:] you know it's not it's like I still have the fantasies about Hawaii and all that stuff but [speaker002:] yeah I lived in Colorado for a while and people kept saying the same thing to me oh it must have been great [speaker001:] and your just like yeah well sort of right [speaker002:] I go oh it was just a place to live yeah I was [speaker001:] but um what do you think about about um their situation should they should they become a state [speaker002:] I I think the status quo seems to be working I don't think um from talking to Jerry my friend that lived there that they don't seem um upset about it or anything and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I think it would upset more people if they tried to change it [speaker001:] really I I think I'm not opposed to it but when its when the time is right it will probably just kind of happen you know [speaker002:] yeah I don't know fifty one stars on this flag wouldn't look too good [speaker001:] where are they going to put the other one [speaker002:] yeah if they got another state they could bring two in and fifty two might be able to uh be arranged better I don't know [speaker001:] well where are we where are we going to get another state [speaker002:] yeah I don't know cut California in half or something [speaker001:] or Texas no that's not a good idea [speaker002:] but um I know a lot of the major companies kind of like it because they'll build plants down there because they don't have to pay taxes on the stuff [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] um and they make I guess it's no income tax there or federal no federal income tax something like that [speaker001:] oh yeah because it's just a territory or is that what it's called a territory [speaker002:] yeah um yeah I think it's a territory [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] that makes sense I mean there's uh lots of tiny islands in the South Pacific that are territories like that they could make states like Guam or uh [speaker001:] is that a U S territory though [speaker002:] yeah it's a U S territory and it's just we own it or [speaker001:] that would be kind of bizarre [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] that's kind of far [speaker002:] well Hawaii is pretty far too think about it [speaker001:] well that's true but there is not a whole lot between here and there [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] where you you start dealing with Guam it's like you know flying over all these other places to get there [speaker002:] yeah it's definitely a way out of the way where where as [speaker001:] My dad was stationed in Guam during the World War Two though [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah where as Puerto Rico is pretty close by [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] which I don't know [speaker001:] of course you could annex Cuba but they wouldn't like that a bit [speaker002:] no I don't think they would [speaker001:] I don't think they'd go for that [speaker002:] yeah but actually I knew another guy from Puerto Rico that I went to school with [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and he was coming he came to America to to go to school and I think he was going to go back be an engineer out there [speaker001:] oh yeah do you think [speaker002:] he was really funny both of the ones I met have been really funny guys I don't know if that's uh if that's true about all Puerto Ricans or not ones I met have been pretty pretty funny [speaker001:] no I have no idea but uh so you think that mostly they're they're pretty much satisfied with things the way they are [speaker002:] yeah I don't I didn't hear any major complaints about it um I definitely think that we ought to let them decide and not say okay you're a state now or you're your own country or whatever [speaker001:] yeah exactly [speaker002:] but um let them decide [speaker001:] really that's why I said you know when it when when their time is right when they're ready for it you know that it will come about [speaker002:] yeah yeah I think that makes the most sense [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] well Rick it's been good talking to you [speaker002:] okay have we have we been on for a long enough time [speaker001:] I think so I think its they want like five minutes or something don't they [speaker002:] okay yeah this is this is actually the first time I've I've had someone call me so [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] but uh it went fine [speaker001:] okay bye-bye [speaker002:] all right well it was good talking to you Becky bye-bye

[speaker001:] okay how you do you have kids [speaker002:] yeah I have a uh twelve year old son and a fourteen year old daughter [speaker001:] oh they're just teenagers huh almost [speaker002:] right so uh so it's uh an interesting experience for us but we're kind of lucky uh in that regard because uh the church we belong to has a a program that they've had for quite a few years that they call family home evening and that program is designed to uh bring the family together at least once a week on Monday night so we uh I guess I could say religiously dedicate Monday evening to doing just that and each each week uh each one of us takes uh responsibility for that particular Monday night [speaker001:] yeah now now do you find that that that's uh see how would I say that do you find that uh that that it's well I mean it's it's [speaker002:] that it works [speaker001:] you could do that on a Monday on a Monday do you find it that it's easy to do that on Monday nights or is it [speaker002:] um-hum it because it turns out that Monday night of all of the other nights of the week generally is the one that has the least number of other outside influences going on so we find that it works out quite well and uh we actually look forward to it because we get to spend so little time together otherwise and uh as I said each one of us' ll plan uh something for the particular Monday and it can be anything because it is kind of a a church sponsored thing once in a while we'll have a a religious lesson maybe once a month that alternates amongst us but uh we might go to a movie or we might watch something here or play a game or just sit and read or uh or whatever that individual feels that they would like to do that's what we do [speaker001:] oh that sounds pretty good are do you find that that uh uh I guess with us [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I have uh four kids at home now and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh let's see uh a six a five year old a thirteen year old uh excuse me five eleven thirteen and seventeen and uh Saturdays is a is it's difficult to get everybody [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] organized and rounded up uh so they get the chores done and don't home in on the television immediately when they when they get up [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] um actually and during the school nights uh [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] uh the we have a rule now that that uh because the kids are so easily distracted by the you know [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh that uh no television on school nights and no [speaker002:] um-hum hum and right not at all or until it's all done or uh [speaker001:] none at all [speaker002:] not at all that's that's a good but uh that's a good idea but [speaker001:] it's well they think it's draconian they think it's terrible you know [speaker002:] right yeah hard to enforce I'm sure [speaker001:] uh well no it's not that hard to enforce it's just uh because if there's you know if it's [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] I found out that if if uh if I let one of them watch pretty soon they'd all be watching [speaker002:] um-hum that's right including yourself yeah can't let yourself watch either that'll work [speaker001:] so I so I said that well no television and no ball games and the reason no ball games is because the kids' ll stick their earphones on and and listen to ball games and try and do their piano believe it or not [speaker002:] um-hum right we have another uh another advantage to is that uh three of the four of us are ham radio operators [speaker001:] oh is that that's that's a pretty good hobby isn't it [speaker002:] yeah so we have a uh a hobby in common and we can talk to one another over the air too on uh on many occasions and uh matter of fact we're my son and I are watching the the shuttle right now uh they've got four ham radio operators on board the shuttle and uh so we been trying to make contact with them and it's uh it's headed towards the DC area right now yeah matter of fact it's uh it's over the horizon now [speaker001:] oh is that right that's very nice well now that's kind of that's interesting to me because a lot of uh you know in keeping on the uh the family thing here the reason that's interesting is because I've noticed that some families have [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um like the the parent I knew some ham and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh there's a tendency and I I think a lot of it depends on the family for like the ham to go in his in his uh room and shut the door [speaker002:] right in the ham shack um hum [speaker001:] in a shack and shut the door and the rest of the family was excluded [speaker002:] right and that's the last you ever see of him and uh [speaker001:] and that's [speaker002:] and uh he speaks a totally different language [speaker001:] and the fact that and I read one time that uh there was a high divorce rate in in uh Cape Canaveral down there or Cape Kennedy or whatever you call it because the engineer would come home go in his study close the door and that was it [speaker002:] uh-huh right uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh just sort of an autocrat so the fact that you've got three participants in your family that uh that do that is that's a credit to you what are [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] let's say I I guess my other question about uh [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] um when it comes to when they're on their own you know I mean if if you have to go if you and your wife go someplace [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] what typically

[speaker001:] Uh, why don't you go ahead first. [speaker002:] Okay. Uh, short term, uh, it works out pretty well because we have just enough to cover expenses with a little left over so budgeting in the short term isn't too much of an issue because there's not that much, uh [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] extra to go around. Uh, long term is [sigh] something we're starting [sigh] to think about because our older child will be ready for college in about, uh, [NOISE] {A gee, she's eight now so I guess } about ten years. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Good heavens. So we're, we're starting to think about long term considerations. College and retirement. But with not a whole lot of discretionary money, it's kind of hard to figure out how to do it. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] How about you? [speaker001:] That's kind of, uh, to what we're doing is budgeting, you know. Month to month is, uh, kind of taking into consideration what the bills are and what's extra so that's kind of how we do it, uh, from month to month depending on what insurance is due or whatever. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, long term, that's a little bit easier for us because, uh, with our jobs we can take out extra money towards savings, Four Oh One K plans [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, that kind of, you know, retirement plans, that kind of stuff so we can kind of put aside some money that actually is better for us not to see [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] versus when it's on the paycheck and you have to try and take out some of that money. You always find something a little extra that you'd like to get that month so, uh, long term probably is a little bit better than short term simply because, uh, it's automatically taken out. So, uh, that works out much better for us, so that's kind of how we do it anyway but, [speaker002:] And the old, uh, if you can't see it, then you can't spend it, uh, idea [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] E-, exactly and if you can't touch it, you can't spend it either. So that kind of works out where you get into, uh, some plans that, you know, you touch it you're going to get a penalty, that kind of thing, so it leads you to kind of say well I'm not going to take it out. I'm going to keep it and, uh, [child talking] keep it in there and let it grow so that someway, maybe for retirement you're going to have that money [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] left. Let's hope anyway, so [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you'll have that so that's kind of how we do it. But ours is more like month to month too, uh, short term is, to get things going so. Anyway, other than that, uh, is kind of how we do it so. I don't [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] know if we're, our time is up or what [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, they'll, uh [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] They'll let us know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, exactly. We, we actually do have some money in a Four Oh One K. I just [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] wish I could afford to, uh, put more away each week because I agree that it's a, an excellent way, [speaker001:] Oh, definitely, definitely. And, uh, it grows, uh, it, it seems like at first you're not going to see a big return but as the years go on, if you're with the company for any length of time then it gets much better and, uh, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] so, you know, you just have to kind of look at it that way and there's other savings plans or other things that you can do. Automatic, you know, deposit from checks to where you don't see it. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, uh, you know, exactly whatever is in our checking account is basically just about what gets spent. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] It's put into our savings account and we don't see it, then it works out to where, you know, you don't look at it, you just look at the checking account, [speaker002:] [Noise]. [speaker001:] and say this is what we have for money and that's it, so [child talking]. [speaker002:] Yeah, checking account's a very dangerous place for money to be I'm convinced. [speaker001:] Yeah, it, it's easy because you do spend it, that's for sure. Like I said, you know, you kind of look at it, uh, you better have some other way of, uh, savings, otherwise, uh, checking accounts aren't the best for, you know, long term type of planning, so. And you don't get a good return on it anyway, so, other, [speaker002:] Yeah, I guess there, other than things like the stock market or mutual funds, there's really not much of a return on anything these days. [speaker001:] Exactly. Right now. Yeah, it's a bad time, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, the interest is so low. I mean it, it's nice for people buying homes but [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] for older people who have money [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in C D -s or whatever, it must be awfully hard to see rates go down to three and a half percent or whatever. [speaker001:] Exactly, exactly. You know, we have some in-laws, uh, that, uh, had theirs in some money market certificates and other things and, uh, kind of took them out of that because they got so low but, uh, yeah, it's, it drops so your better bet is to, uh, try to get in with something with your corporation if they have some kind of, uh, savings plans or something like that to where they kind of match the percentage or whatever so or some kind of profit sharing so. [speaker002:] Yeah, I'm, I'm with a small company now and I hope that, uh, if we're successful that they'll go in for some sort of profit sharing [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] that'll be very nice. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's great, yeah [child talking]. Okay. [speaker002:] Well I guess we're kind of running out of steam on this topic here. [speaker001:] Yeah, exactly [LAUGHTER].

[speaker001:] uh so uh what are your benefits like at your job and how do you feel about them [speaker002:] uh pretty good actually I work for Hewlett Packard and they have uh a pretty good uh benefits package in fact they're they're kind of known uh for having good benefits the pay isn't fabulous although I saw a survey recently and I'm actually making just about as much as you know I'm making making actually over average over the average for my career my experience and all that stuff which kind of surprised me so [speaker001:] oh that's good uh-huh what kind of a degree have you got [speaker002:] I've got a Bachelor's in electrical engineering so [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and I'm not like a hugely advanced degree or any of that stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh anyway the our benefits are pretty good we've got stock purchase program and a that that's pretty generous although you have to hold the stock for two years [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] before you get the company contribution which is kind of a a pain but uh there's a four O one K plan uh for uh sheltering some taxable income [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] uh there's [speaker001:] how long have you been with them [speaker002:] I've been with them for seven years [speaker001:] uh that's good [speaker002:] yeah and the best thing and a lot of the stuff the best thing is like four years or five years it's pretty soon you're completely vested in the retirement plan and everything [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so uh it's not too but there's full uh there there's several medical plans to choose from uh that cover pretty much everything I don't get sick that often so I don't pay much of it but you know I pay five dollars every time I visit the the hospital [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] that you know for a checkup or whatever [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] um they don't cover eyes though and I I have contact lenses so that's kind of a pain [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but you know I I can live [speaker001:] but for for all practical purpose you are almost a hundred percent covered [speaker002:] oh yeah yeah [speaker001:] so that you've got got small small things to gripe about [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] wow well that sounds like you must feel really good about it [speaker002:] and yeah yeah and and the dental plan is fabulous the dental plan I pay absolutely nothing [speaker001:] wow [speaker002:] because uh I I guess they would charge a little bit if there was some orthodontia or something for one of my dependents or something like that but that's not the case so I guess nothing it's fabulous [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh wow [speaker002:] uh the what about you [speaker001:] well I uh work in Washington at the Naval Research Laboratory I also have a part time job at a law firm and I get no benefits from them at to the part time work although they pay better per hour [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] than my my sort of quote real job does uh and benefits through the government are uh really uh they just uh they're not the greatest uh I before I I uh uh got my degree I'm uh computer a computer scientist [speaker002:] uh uh-huh [speaker001:] and before I got my degree I had uh done paralegal work for law firms here in Washington and uh [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] at that time I was in gravy city uh the law firms in this town are not you know for a long time were just rolling in the dough in the early eighties and uh benefits were just amazing and [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] we had everything paid for and uh anyway with the government it's not uh quite that nice a deal uh but it's you know it's it's okay what we have to do is we have to pay uh about twenty percent of our uh uh our costs and it's deducted from our check each month and that sort of thing and the plans that are available to us uh range from kind of mediocre to really sweet and uh so I I think I'm actually involved in a relatively good plan plan at this point um but uh it could be better that's for sure and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh but you know there there are other things that you get when you work for the government I uh in in terms of uh more relaxed atmosphere it's really nice to be for me anyway to be able to work in uh a research atmosphere uh where I don't have to uh uh you know worry about uh academics or anything like that and so I'm I'm really kind of happy about that end of of things it's uh [speaker002:] yeah the one of the things with my company is that they've uh got a reputation for a lot of job security and uh there's a lot of different [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] things that they do lot of different divisions even this area in the San Francisco Bay Area that they do so there's uh I myself have moved around quite a bit within the company [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's and I and I haven't had to move my residence to do that you know I still live in San Jose and [speaker001:] wow that's fabulous you see now that's that's interesting because I have a cousin whose husband works for Hewlett Packard up in the Massachusetts area he he lives in Andover [speaker002:] yeah it oh yeah yeah uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh the work that he he's uh specifically an engineer and and does work with uh the Hewlett Packard machines that do uh uh sonographic imagining [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and uh I've been over to see his complex over there and it's amazing it's it's all ecologically designed and and uh he seems really really happy with the the set up [speaker002:] um yeah yeah in fact I know a guy who works at Andover who used to work who I used to work with out here and he moved his family back east a few years ago to to take that position [speaker001:] and uh-huh [speaker002:] kind of interesting um uh anyhow

[speaker001:] Uh, anyway, we're supposed to talk about recycling. Basically, what, what your personal opinion is on it. Uh, this is, this is really for a speech research project they're doing so, uh, I don't know. Florida is pretty good about recycling isn't it? [speaker002:] Well, they just kicked it off down here in, in Sarasota county. [speaker001:] Oh, they did? [speaker002:] Uh, [lipsmack] they had been doing it, they started first in Sarasota City. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, you know, which makes up a pretty small portion of the county actually. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, they've got these, I don't know what, if you're familiar with Sarasota county at all. [speaker001:] Not quite, no. [speaker002:] They've got these, wh-, it's, it's county wide program now. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And what they've done is they've broken everything down into garbage. Uh, yard trash. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Plastic, cr-, cans and glass. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] And then, uh, paper. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Which, in the paper, it's just, uh, newspaper and corrugated cardboard. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Is the only thing you're supposed to put in there. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] No slicks. Uh, [speaker001:] Oh, that's, that's good. Let me ask you this. Do they require you to presort it? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay. See that's something in Minneapolis they're really strict on. In terms of you got to put everything in its own little bag and really presort it really, you know, tightly. But when I lived in Orlando, it's like you could put almost anything in there [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they'd just sort it out for you [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] It was really pretty good if you're lazy like I am, so. [speaker002:] Yeah, right. Well, you know, uh, I talked to this girl who, uh, she's a, an s-, an acquaintance of mine and, and she's involved with, uh, [lipsmack] oh, what is the name of that company. It's not Amway but it's the other big vitamin company? Shaklee. [speaker001:] Oh, okay, yeah. [speaker002:] Okay. And, uh, and, and she's just Shaklee crazy, you know, because it's her business and everything. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And, uh, [lipsmack] you know, and she asked, we were talking one day and, and she asked me a couple of questions, you know. And she, and, and what she said that, that generally, the problems that people have with being environmentally conscious is number one, they don't want it to change their lifestyle [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, and like, you know, especially make it anymore complicated or any extra work or anything. Which that's, that's what recycling at home sorting does, you know. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I mean it's a little extra work. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, it can actually turn out to be a lot of extra work because [NOISE] what they do, what [speaker001:] It can, yeah. [speaker002:] [Noise] they do here in Sarasota county is they've got, okay, you put your garbage in a garbage bag and you set it out by the curb. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] If you have yard trash, you put your yard trash in some kind of container. Uh, or you can have bundles up to a certain weight, and cer-, certain dimensions, tie them up and [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Yeah, you got to tie them up and everything. [speaker002:] put them by the curb. Well, the plastic, cans and glass, they give you this little tub and it's about a foot and a half deep and it's about one by one and a half foot wide and long. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] This is a little container. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And then they have another one the same size. That one's red. Then they have a blue one the same size for the paper goods. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, so, like, you know, you would have to rinse out your pop cans. Otherwise you got bees and ants and [speaker001:] Exactly. [speaker002:] you know, and, and if you've got, uh, food containers or anything like that, it's a big problem. [speaker001:] It is, you know, a big [speaker002:] So not only do you [speaker001:] hassle. [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's true. I mean, up here, they give you one, one of those containers and you put everything in it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So it's like, if, if you use a lot of stuff, you, it's like well you know, if you're a partying kind of guy and you drink, you know, like a couple of twelve packs, maybe, over the weekend [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's going to be hard pressed to p-, to put all your recyclables in that one [speaker002:] This is true. [speaker001:] place, you know. So it's [speaker002:] This is true. [speaker001:] kind of a pain in the butt. But, uh, I don't know. That's definitely one thing they could do to make it easier is to just, you know. You have, have those garbage people that make, how every many, make tw-, twenty, thirty bucks an hour, have them do a little bit of the sorting. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know. And, and maybe come up with a better system. Make it a little more convenient. But, [speaker002:] [Swallowing] Yeah, they've got these large garbage cans that you can rent from the waste management company here. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, if you want to have a nice garbage can, you know. And it's on wheels and it's big. [speaker001:] Oh, you can actually rent those? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay. That's interesting. Yeah [speaker002:] Yeah [swallowing]. [speaker001:] up here the, the city provides them. Kind of like, [speaker002:] I think in, I think in the city they do but out here in the county you have to rent them. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] And they just add it on to your water bill or something. [speaker001:] So where exactly are you in terms of, of, like, Sarasota? Are you north of Sarasota or, [speaker002:] East of Sarasota. [speaker001:] East, okay. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And Sarasota is on the west coast? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay. Like south of Tampa, right? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay. I'm, [speaker002:] Yeah. About an hour. [speaker001:] Yeah, that's, [speaker002:] About an hour south of Tampa [inhaling] [sniffing]. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Uh, [LAUGHTER] yeah, well. I listen to this talk radio station down here and it's really, th-, they, I don't if you ever listen to talk radio but [speaker001:] Um, occasionally. [speaker002:] those guys, they just kind of get into, to s-, s-, stewing up trouble, you know. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] With the callers and things like that. But they get into some really good conversations sometimes, you know. And some of it, sometimes it's serious and they have some good feedback and all that stuff and [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] from listening to that, I kind of got an idea that I thought would be good with [sniffing] and this kind of fits into the, uh, the aid program, the welfare program that's going on right now. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And it's like, uh,

[speaker001:] well I usually keep up with news by watching ABC news on television and reading the papers here the local Dallas Morning News and then I also take the Wall Street Journal [speaker002:] do you get a chance to do it at home or do you mostly like catch up while you're at work do you have a chance to look through the Wall Street Journal I'm not sure what you do [speaker001:] yeah well I well I did at the office I generally catch the Wall Street Journal at lunchtime I use part of my lunch period to uh read the Wall Street Journal [speaker002:] um well the [speaker001:] then uh I read the the newspaper at home generally in the evening I'd rather sleep the extra thirty minutes in the morning [speaker002:] I understand that well and you have a little bit better newspaper The Dallas Morning News is a good paper Lubbock is kind of small and the AJs uh kind of dominant there's no competition so what you get is what you get we used to take the paper every day and I finally quit taking it because it stacked up I never got around to reading it and so I try to take you know weekend papers and then during the week I catch up you know on the radio on the way to work or if I'm traveling around at lunch or on the way home and hopefully I'm sitting down by the ten o'clock news to where I can kind of get a recap on TV uh [speaker001:] yeah that's uh what we do to it we're never never in home in time to really watch the six o'clock news on television so we catch the ten o'clock news but I catch the news on the radio coming [speaker002:] no yeah [speaker001:] to and from work but radio news is is rather short uh most of the news stations most of the stations here that are not all news stations you get about five minutes on the hour [speaker002:] it is uh-huh [speaker001:] and if you catch the news stations uh you don't catch that much in the car [speaker002:] oh I see [speaker001:] yeah but uh I [speaker002:] well uh it's frustrating to me because I really wish that I did have more I don't know uh what do I want to say I wish that I was around more news it's frustrating when I don't know what's going on I feel like it's hit and miss and I haven't found anything yet that keeps me there on a constant basis somebody will say oh did you hear about this that happened last week and it might be local and it might be national and I'm like no I missed that one [speaker001:] yeah I have the same situation I tried the news magazines like Time Newsweek US News and World Report and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] they'd just stack up I wouldn't find time to read them you have to have time to sit down and concentrate on on the stories or else all of a sudden you look and there's three uh three weeks worth laying on the coffee table [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and you wind up throwing them out without reading them because it's too much trouble to try and catch up so [speaker002:] yeah that's true that's true [speaker001:] have to depend I guess we're becoming more of a television oriented nation in that I don't think that uh my children even read newspapers other than the TV guide section of the there's is all uh strictly television news [speaker002:] uh oh no a little bit that worries me because I feel like the news is so biased and yes they report facts and yes you can get an idea of what's going on but [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] you know it's an and I wish they would just report the incident and then leave the commentaries out but so many times you get well uh this is my opinion of what he meant by that and I'm like who are you to judge you know just report the facts [speaker001:] yeah right right it's the same thing with the news magazines like Time and and the other magazines it's hard to celebrate uh to celebrate to separate [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] the news from the comment because in the way it's presented their opinions is printed or presented as being the news [speaker002:] yes um-hum [speaker001:] and so then you have to try and sort out what really is the news [speaker002:] and I feel like they sensationalize things that shouldn't be sensationalized I feel like they focus too much on things that I don't know you know so much during the Gulf War they would ask questions that uh you wouldn't want broadcast it's like if you tell us the answer to that you're telling our enemy what your strategy is but they keep asking these questions and I thought it was really well I don't know asinine actually stupid [speaker001:] that's right that's right well so many of them also come through and they have discovered that this is the most popular issue of the time whether it be the homeless or uh cancer or whatever and then they devote uh an inordinate amount of time on the news cast to their personal axe to grind [speaker002:] um yes [speaker001:] and uh I particularly the local television uh I know the the Wednesday's Child Bit [speaker002:] I agree [speaker001:] and they'll take up ten minutes of a newscast and leave out something I'm not saying that's not important but they leave out a real news issue to devote to one of their local pet projects [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's true that's true and it's frustrating [speaker001:] yes so [speaker002:] so I guess I guess when I get to listen to the news it's it's probably television or radio I see very little paper but I I don't get to see that as much as I want and when I do I'm wondering why I wanted to see it so bad so [speaker001:] that's yeah that makes sense we uh again like I say by the time I read the newspaper it's the the it's that morning's news from the day before and I'm reading it in the evening so I'm a I'm about a day behind most of the time anyway [speaker002:] yeah exactly exactly [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well I'm glad that it makes me feel like I'm not alone though in the world I I used to think that I was probably the only one that just I don't know was running around so much I look at other uh women workers or men at work that have kids and families and I'm like how do they seem so together all the time I always feel like I'm running a rat race [speaker001:] yeah yeah we we [speaker002:] so I guess news is just part of that rat race for me [speaker001:] and my wife and I feel that we never have a moment that we can call our own it's always there's something going on all the time uh you don't really have time to sit down and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and thoroughly read a newspaper as a matter of fact I read the Sunday paper this evening we had such a busy day yesterday [speaker002:] exactly well [speaker001:] didn't find time to even read it [speaker002:] yeah that's incredible too [speaker001:] yeah well that's about all then [speaker002:] well I appreciate talking to you [speaker001:] nice talking with you same to you [speaker002:] have a good evening bye-bye

[speaker001:] I would say Arlington Texas now because I talked to one night to somebody in Arlington Virginia [speaker002:] oh my yeah and well uh Plano Texas rather than Plano Illinois [speaker001:] oh do they have one [speaker002:] yes they do [speaker001:] oh I didn't know that well I learned something already [speaker002:] yeah well let's see the three questions are what um [speaker001:] how much time do you spend with your children [speaker002:] very little because they're grown they're grown and gone [speaker001:] oh what oh yeah well mine's are down at UT Austin in college and the other one's in high school so you do spend less time then because [speaker002:] yeah because they don't want to know they almost don't want to know us [speaker001:] they wanna be with their friends well how old are your kids are they married or what [speaker002:] yeah uh yes I have uh two married two almost and then two almost married and the other two oh I'm not sure well two single two two uh uh for sure single [speaker001:] oh boy you have a lot of kids you [speaker002:] yeah we have between the spouse and myself we have six [speaker001:] oh that's kind of nice though you [speaker002:] because I came with a split family and she had one [speaker001:] you shouldn't be lonesome on a holiday huh [speaker002:] well no there's so much of them are gone and they're doing their own things and [speaker001:] well that's true [speaker002:] and a lot of times they they've got you know uh on the holidays a lot [speaker001:] they have to see their other parent I guess too [speaker002:] yeah and sometimes they want to do their own thing so sometimes it's just spouse and me and and you know what [speaker001:] I know right [speaker002:] sometimes that's okay [speaker001:] I know that's what my mother said one time [speaker002:] because you know right because who says that they just must got to come over to see us all the time [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] for the holidays [speaker001:] no that's true and if they force them to you know that's not good either [speaker002:] yeah that becomes a drudgery and when you [speaker001:] well do they all live in the area [speaker002:] well let's see I've got of the six we've got four around here [speaker001:] um-hum oh wow [speaker002:] uh you know well we're talking like North Texas and then one is in Vermont uh Montpelier Montpelier Monteplier Montpelier Vermont and the other one's in Everett Washington [speaker001:] um-hum golly how'd they end up so far away [speaker002:] well that is that's the the the my little pair [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and my second marriage um and uh [speaker001:] those are the youngest ones [speaker002:] yeah yeah well the second the the the the fourth and fifth child of the the of the uh six are the two that are scattered like that [speaker001:] um-hum boy that those are a long way how'd [speaker002:] and well they wanted to go uh JR my my my least son or my middle son excuse me fell in love with Washington state and the the the third daughter fell in love with uh [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh Vermont so yeah that's where they've gone to make their homes [speaker001:] Vermont so they wanted to make their homes there huh my goodness are they are those two married [speaker002:] no [speaker001:] are they uh just working up there or going to school or what [speaker002:] well uh let's see yeah I guess you'd say JR is working and going to school trying to go to school [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] I wish to God he would go back [speaker001:] oh they do eventually if they have if they're meant to I think [speaker002:] yeah well I certainly hope so [speaker001:] I mean I've got a daughter that's a sophomore at UT and I'm I'm going to UTA right now myself so it's never too late [speaker002:] uh-huh well it's oh I agree it's never too late [speaker001:] right especially in some of these schools around here I think they have about twenty percent older students [speaker002:] and yeah and when you're saying older we're talking fifty up [speaker001:] oh yeah I've seen some people that are really really quite up there you know they look like in their very late sixties and I say that's great why not you know [speaker002:] uh-huh oh my uh-huh yes why not because that's a a lot of times well it's I I believe that uh we in that category and I'm not in that category quite yet [speaker001:] but no [speaker002:] but we are seasoned minds [speaker001:] oh yeah you're really ready to learn finally finally I mean I don't know why I even went to college when I was seventeen it was a complete waste of money [speaker002:] yes uh-huh yeah it was yeah settle down we know what we're wanting to to uh study and uh [speaker001:] right right now we're [speaker002:] we know our limitations [speaker001:] right and uh [speaker002:] and we don't try to burn the candle at both ends and then the middle altogether [speaker001:] no we don't go out drinking beer till three and then you try to go to class in the morning we're past yeah we're past that age [speaker002:] at seven yeah yes we're we're smarter than that [speaker001:] we know what we can do oh [speaker002:] yack right um so let's see so mine and I don't spend a whole lot of time because they're not here [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and so the second question I forgot what the second question [speaker001:] what was it what uh how what do the trends in families and do we approve of what other families do [speaker002:] well uh the trends in the families were to spread apart do your own thing but I have seen lately yes I am seeing [speaker001:] that's right a change I was gonna say the same thing [speaker002:] I'm seeing a change that whoops government can't do it schools are not able to and between a person's religion [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] uh their their faith in their maker whether whether you know uh whether you're Christian or Jewish or whatever uh and the family [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] those are the two that can that that have the wherewithal and of course [speaker001:] or gonna have sauce on the bone huh [speaker002:] Judeo-Christianity uh and the the Jewish folks too believe that the family unit is the one that was given the uh um mission by the Lord to do this very thing so when another group of of uh people step in try to do it they're they're tromping on our territory so to speak so I firmly believe that uh [speaker001:] um-hum oh

[speaker001:] so uh I don't know what you mean by camping but I mean tent kind of camping I guess that's what I normally do that's what [speaker002:] yeah yeah well do you [speaker001:] yeah yeah nothing like RVs or anything like that [speaker002:] because uh my father and I in like back in eighty three we went camping uh camping down the Appalachian Trail [speaker001:] oh really the whole length or uh [speaker002:] no no uh it was just for three days we must have done like uh sixty miles or something [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum was it very crowded out there or [speaker002:] no no not at all but uh you had uh you know there was one part like we were waiting to get some water right and we were looking at where we could get some water and it said you know it was like [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] we can either try to get here tonight or just sleep it and try to get there tomorrow morning and we said okay let's just sleep in and try to get there tomorrow morning [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so when we got there the water that we were supposed to drink wasn't potable like well you couldn't drink it [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and so what we had to do is we had to get on the trail or on the road [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and start walking down the road and then we found this little hut a couple of miles down that had you know that sold stuff [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] so we just stopped there uh you know had some breakfast got some water and kept on walking [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] and then uh my mother who went to pick us up we had a barbecue and it was it was cool it was like you know you see a lot of deer up there [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and uh like one time I opened up the the tent and there was a deer drinking out of a stream [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and so it was it was cool you know and and it was just uh very tiring though [speaker001:] yeah the last the last big camping trip I was on was uh probably a few years after that but it was in the Pagosa Springs area in Colorado a bunch of us uh from here went up there and uh [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and I got hit by the same thing because we thought we were going to be real mountain men and uh we got up there and we had the little pills you're supposed to put in the water and make sure that it's potable [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and of course we're up you know up above you know fourteen thousand feet or whatever and we said well well how dirty could the water be right you never never think about bacteria or amoeba or anything like that [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you think well nobody's using the bathroom farther up stream so it's got to be all right so we were doing things like uh you know we all had our little collapsible cups and we were going up to where the water was coming over rocks and all that and we'd just kind of stick our cups in there and drink and then we were there for five or six days and and and it was neat you know we saw deer and uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] had to put our uh food up in the in the trees and all that I was the unlucky guy that got up every morning and said well I guess might as well putz around here while everyone else is sleeping so I was usually the guy who had to get it out of the tree and all that [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah I was uh I told my dad you know it was like listen dad you know that I sleep a lot of hours right [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and so he goes yeah I do okay so he goes you know at least I sleep you know maybe ten hours so if we go to bed at you know eight or something right [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] so he goes well if you go to bed at eight then you'll wake up like six in the morning [speaker001:] that's right [speaker002:] and then I go no no maybe I sleep more than ten hours you know and [speaker001:] that's that's right you don't want to be the first one up and have to put the fire on and have to take take care of everything while everyone else is sacked out [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and then if they wake up and you haven't done everything it's like why haven't you done that but uh well we were drinking you know back to that uh water thing and of course I got sick about the second or third until the end of the day I'm I'm uproariously sick and I'm in the tent sweating it out [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and the two guys I was with they were like well this you're a wimp you know because we've been drinking out of the water and we're okay so they went out fly fishing and they're having a great time [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and and just all the way back to Dallas I'm just uproariously sick and uh we get back here and of course the first day back at work I go to work and where are these guys and they were off both off a week sick because they were just it's just like it took them a little longer to hit it hit and it hit them and they were just like calling into work going oh I'm miserable I'm I'm just [speaker002:] it hit them wham [speaker001:] I can't keep anything down I'm and I just cramps and I'm just going hey tell me about it right [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh but uh that was probably the last big camp that's probably the last big camping trip I've I've gone on I haven't gone in a few years on anything real big [speaker002:] what uh do you work for TI [speaker001:] uh no no but I know somebody who does and that's how I got into this so but uh [speaker002:] oh okay [speaker001:] but in fact it's funny that's this was the topic because I was just reading Outside Magazine here this morning and uh and that some big issue on the only way to camp about about canoe camping [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh and I've I've done a lot of canoeing but never have camped out over night and and they makes a lot make a lot of good points about at least with a canoe you don't have to carry everything [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you can throw big tents and food and and stoves and everything in and all you have to do is just you don't even have to if you go downstream you hardly even have to paddle and it's uh [speaker002:] yeah well it all depends on what the rapids are like [speaker001:] well that's true too as long as you're not going to going to hit any white water or you know if you're just doing a nice calm river it's uh it's it uh you don't have to put very much effort into it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and uh boys I guess as I get older that'll get more and more appetizing [speaker002:] and then all you'll have will be road camping trips you know let's just go out to the mountains with the car honey and uh [speaker001:] the truck and that's that's right and uh and if we're lucky we'll talk somebody into taking the car downstream and we'll just throw the canoe in there and uh and uh tell you what we'll just we'll just float downstream and uh that's that's [speaker002:] yeah really no paddling no paddling we'll just grab the rudder and you you work the rudder yeah [speaker001:] that's about as tough as nope that's just keep us off a rock and we'll just let the let the stream take us down river and all that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh but uh well you over there in Carolina North Carolina you probably get a lot of chance to you've got a lot of rivers and a lot of uh white white water over there I think uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah but since but I'm a you know I'm a student and so [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I also don't have any transportation [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and so the the people that actually do camp do camp I don't I don't really get along with them you know they're like I don't know if I could stand to being you know two days in the woods with them you know [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah yeah that's probably true because uh that's [speaker002:] and so because you have to know who you're going with to get along [speaker001:] that's true you can't even uh because I know uh even I and my wife would probably uh have a hard time sitting in sitting out in the woods for a couple of days and uh you've really got to be careful who you go out there with and that they're out they're out fo r what they're doing and you're out for what you want to do and then you all get get to do what you want to do I guess while you're out there but uh [speaker002:] yeah yeah oh well [speaker001:] well well all right bye bye [speaker002:] it was nice talking to you bye bye

[speaker001:] Okay, so I guess it starts recording now. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Okay. I don't know, really know that much about the recycling in this area that we're in. We live in the Saginaw area. [speaker002:] Saginaw? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. And I'm not real familiar with, uh, anything that, I, fact as far as I know, the school doesn't have any kind of programs or anything out here. And, uh, or the grocery store or anything [LAUGHTER] [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] in this area, yeah. [speaker002:] The rec-, we live in Plano and they started off recycling by, uh, putting the, I think at each Wal-Mart, they had some recycling dumpsters and things like that, which now, I guess the, uh, city is, has bought the big green trash cans and, uh, we, they have a recycling truck that comes around now and you separate your glass and paper [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, aluminum and you set it out and they pick it up and it, it works real neat. They seem to be having a real good response. [speaker001:] Really? [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] That is pretty good. I'm, we're originally from another state and I know in the state we were from that they did that t-, similar type thing. The city brought ought, you know, set tr-, separate trash cans and you separated your stuff and you put it in there and they took it, you know. [speaker002:] Did they, did they, like on bottles, did they give you a so many cents back for [speaker001:] I don't really know. [speaker002:] for cans even or, [speaker001:] I don't really know, they, they started after we moved down here and so [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I, I'm not really familiar. I just know that, uh, my in-laws up in, up in Oklahoma, that's how they do, you know, they pick it up, but I don't know if they get a, get anything back on it or, do you get money for it? [speaker002:] No, I just, I noticed it Iowa and other cities like that, it's a nickel per aluminum can. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] So you don't see too many thrown out around the [LAUGHTER] streets. [speaker001:] Really [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Or even bottles. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] You know, all kinds of bottles they, they, they really charge people to, I guess when you purchase them and, and then when you turn them back in. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] I n-, I remember the old days as a kid where bottle was a nickel. [speaker001:] Right. And now, now most of them are throwaway. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] So, maybe that's one thing they can do. [speaker001:] I think now they're a lot more expensive than that. Uh, I bought some Cokes the other day in the br-, the little bottles [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, and I think the bottles were like, I know they were at least ten cents apiece. I started to see, at home, I was like, God, how much were those bottles [LAUGHTER] you know? [like as verb of saying!] [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] And, it was, they come in like, uh, eight and, and eight and ten packs, you know [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] instead of six packs and, uh, and they were like, it was like two dollars and something for the bottles. [LAUGHTER] You know, I was like God Almighty, it costs more for the bottles than it did for the Cokes. [speaker002:] That was my brother's first job in a grocery store. He was in the bottle area [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] In the bot-, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It's pretty dangerous out there, you know, when they fall over, but [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] but it's, uh, it's quite, they say that the green glass now, that there's a big glut [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] of green [speaker001:] Of green glass. [speaker002:] the green glass, yeah. It's amazing. [speaker001:] Well, out in this area, they really don't have anything. Now, I know that like Minyard's [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and places like that around like Arlington and Fort Worth and a lot of those grocery stores, they have like four different bins out front. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, different colors for different things and, and things like that, but I, I do know some of these places were doing that and they discontinued them because people were coming and dumping their trash in them. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] [Breathing]. [speaker002:] Yeah it's, I notice the plastic have sort of faded away, the milk jugs. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] It, it's, people just, they, they really don't, uh, there's too much labor involved I guess to separate the stuff. [speaker001:] Yeah, more than it's worth. [speaker002:] It's, I don't know, it, it can be, it's not as easy [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] selecting, you know, clean junk as they say. [speaker001:] Right. Well, who wants to clean their junk before they throw it away [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] That's right, that's right. It's like washing the dishes before you put them in the dishwasher. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Right, uh, yeah. [speaker002:] We all do it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, it was nice talking to you. [speaker001:] It was nice talking to you. I have no idea how long this is supposed to last or anything. [speaker002:] Oh, I think, I think two or three minutes is [speaker001:] I-, [speaker002:] fine. [speaker001:] Is that it? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Okay, well, it was nice talking to you and I, I guess I'll do this for, I was doing this for, actually, I was going to do it for my son so that he could, uh, he, he's in high school, so that he could make some money. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Uh, but then it has my name on it, so I'm like, okay, I'll sit down here and call it [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, we're doing it for a church choir so, [speaker001:] Oh, are you? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Oh, that's interesting. [speaker002:] So, [speaker001:] That's nice. Well, [speaker002:] Well, thank you. [speaker001:] Thank you. Bye. [speaker002:] Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] okay well you wanna tell me about the weather [speaker002:] Lori I think we know about the weather had a lot of rain this year though [speaker001:] that's right yeah that's true lot of records I think [speaker002:] yeah I know it I just don't know what winter's gonna be like [speaker001:] uh hasn't been bad so far [speaker002:] no it hadn't but I mean we're due for a a big one here we hadn't had a big big winter in a long time [speaker001:] well yeah I guess not well how about somewhere else you been somewhere else lately [speaker002:] somewhere else where was I I was in Florida here recently [speaker001:] and what was the weather like there [speaker002:] great it was fantastic [speaker001:] you wanna go back right [speaker002:] yeah sure I wouldn't mind going back [speaker001:] did it rain every day it usually rains every day there [speaker002:] no it didn't really didn't they got maybe sprinkled maybe once I remember that's about it [speaker001:] really huh uh-huh did you go to uh what is it Disney World [speaker002:] no I was down there on business but we were right across the street from it [speaker001:] oh oh really and you didn't get to go huh have you been there before [speaker002:] no never went no never have [speaker001:] oh my gosh have you been to the one in California [speaker002:] my no my kids were the one to the one in uh out in California [speaker001:] gosh we have to go it's just one of those things you have to see you know [speaker002:] I know that's what I heard think we're straying off the weather though [speaker001:] yeah that's true yeah hum boy we can't go very far with this subject [speaker002:] I don't know I what kind of winter winter are we gonna have this year [speaker001:] oh I don't know hopefully not too bad well bad enough so it kills all the fleas and bugs and whatever see we have to have our freeze for probably a week [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but aside from that I hope it's still warm not too cold maybe maybe maybe well maybe a little snow on Christmas Eve or something would be nice but it doesn't look good [speaker002:] yeah they were saying that the freeze last winter did you see I don't know if you saw on TV about the uh the migration uh not the migration but all the crickets that they had this year [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] did you see it they were saying they were saying that was caused from a very mild winter [speaker001:] oh it was amazing [speaker002:] that that the winter didn't that the winter did not kill all of the eggs like it normally does [speaker001:] um-hum oh yeah [speaker002:] but I was out I work out in Plano at a restaurant out there and they just uh I mean the my whole building was covered with them [speaker001:] um-hum oh what restaurant is it [speaker002:] I hope [speaker001:] oh okay all right I work out in Plano too I was just wondering if it was near where I am [speaker002:] but I mean it it was it was I couldn't I couldn't believe all of them [speaker001:] yeah I remember going to work one day and just crunching on the stairs it was terrible [speaker002:] oh it was unbelievable we couldn't see our parking we couldn't see our parking lot hey I'm not I'm not kidding we got pictures of it we could not see our parking lot [speaker001:] that's pretty bad for a restaurant I guess probably doesn't help your business [speaker002:] yeah it is well it didn't it well it didn't hurt it though that's the bad thing didn't hurt it they weren't on the inside they were just on the outside of the building just hanging around [speaker001:] yeah huh well it's in here we started to get some in the house now I I wonder if it's because it's getting cool out and they want to come in [speaker002:] yeah they want to they go towards the heat that's why that's why they were coming out of the ground when it first started getting cool they came out of the ground because it was warmer [speaker001:] yeah yes and into the house [speaker002:] yeah well yeah they like coming into the house but they were going crawling crawling up our building up into the eave where it was warm [speaker001:] oh huh [speaker002:] where the lights were and everything [speaker001:] uh-huh huh [speaker002:] but hopefully uh we'll have a nice hard winter and it'll kill them all this year because I don't wanna put up with that again [speaker001:] yeah I know I know I mean it sounds cool to say but yeah it was pretty [speaker002:] uh a bug's a bug who cares [speaker001:] and I ended up spraying for them anyway after a while I think [speaker002:] oh we spent a couple of thousand dollars on getting the getting the restaurant sprayed and everything [speaker001:] yeah I bet you do huh you probably have to do that a lot of times during the year don't you [speaker002:] oh yeah well we get we spray monthly just as just as a maintenance but uh I mean this was like every other day he was coming out there with his truck he normally doesn't spray with a truck [speaker001:] oh oh hum uh-huh [speaker002:] but he was having to come out there with a big truck and uh just douse the douse the grass and everything else [speaker001:] wow yeah I guess you'd have to you don't want bugs in there that's for sure um [speaker002:] oh I know it but I'm I'm ready for a little snow though got to have a little bit couple of days anyway maybe shut shut down shut down work but I doubt it maybe where I can stay home a few days and and play in the snow with the kids [speaker001:] um-hum yeah it would be nice yeah that would be nice [speaker002:] yeah I'm looking forward to it I don't know about anybody else [speaker001:] hm yeah well as long as I don't have to drive in it [speaker002:] oh I know [speaker001:] that's that's the lousy part [speaker002:] yeah I know and Texans don't know how to drive in it anyway [speaker001:] oh well I'm not from here but yeah I never really did learn so [speaker002:] yeah well I don't know what else we can talk about the weathe r [speaker001:] well I don't um probably nothing [speaker002:] yeah it's getting cool now I got a fire going so I'm enjoying it yeah [speaker001:] oh sounds good well listen I enjoyed talking to you [speaker002:] enjoyed talking to you too [speaker001:] and uh I hope we get a better subject next time or or at least someone on the other side of the country so that you really can ask [speaker002:] I I I know it well the maybe if they're listening to this maybe if they when they listen to this maybe they can set that up a little better [speaker001:] yeah well it's probably just whoever is around or has the right hours on their sheet so they can call because it's getting hard to find people now [speaker002:] yeah oh I know it that's true [speaker001:] takes a long time and this was good I mean you were only the second one they called [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] but sometimes I've had to wait

[speaker001:] okay well uh I guess since I called I'll start out with my feelings about it uh I think that it's absolutely essential that some some at least some employees of government agencies and companies be tested especially when it effects public safety I mean the military obviously uh people that run trains and airplanes and and the like [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] uh for others I don't know I don't feel as strong about it uh I don't really don't have any objection to it but I can't really say I'm for it either what's your feeling [speaker002:] well uh it it it it becomes sort of a a topic where I sit there and and I have a knee jerk reaction and then I have a a reaction after I think about it a little longer uh for me I I guess I feel like uh we have we we that we when we give in on these things we tend to move towards a a uh society where uh everything is a is uh regulated uh I think you're right about uh certain jobs and uh certainly something like uh a bus train pilots uh it's obviously something that's a necessity it because it because the function of the job is is within all everyone pretty much everyone in the world uh would admit to the fact that that these drugs might impair their abilities [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and like so I guess in some ways I'm agreeing with you uh that those would be something that should continue to have uh drug testing of course it is certainly not acceptable for an Eastern pilot to uh have just had eight martinis before he went off to fly [speaker001:] right or Northwest I think Northwest has had a lot of problems with that [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I uh I've been in uh two two situations where I've had to under go grug testing drug testing I was in the military for a number of years [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and then I worked for four years uh as a as a an electrical inspector uh in a nuclear plant that was under construction and in both cases uh you know we were subject to uh to random testing for drugs and I know a lot of people refused to a lot especially at the nuclear plant or would uh you know strongly object to it but uh you know I could see the need for it so I I went along with it I I think if I were a clerical worker for instance though uh and really couldn't have effected anybody else I'm not sure that I'd [speaker002:] I think it might be inappropriate for us to say for me to say that in any in any industry uh something where where see you're talking about a plant where okay if you're a nuclear inspector [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] or where you're a uh person who works on safety features for nuclear inspection well that makes sense [speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh we're talking about you you know you're saying well uh and I think you uh that you just stated the same thing that if you were a clerical you you you know a clerical person there or you were a secretary there now where's the justification [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] what what what okay you know let's say that we can you you you you had had a uh uh you went to a party and uh not not that anyone ever does it but you were smoking pot uh now how is that going to make any difference [speaker001:] um um-hum [speaker002:] you know unless you very unless you uh uh PCP does exist apparently in the blood stream [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] for a long period of time but the ability for you to function seems to be [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] uh very it it's very questionable as to whether it has any real effect upon you [speaker001:] right probably alcohol has more of an effect for for a shorter period of time [speaker002:] right so but I I just went through one recently [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh the place I just transferred jobs not too long ago and so I went through the whole process and the [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] there's really no justification what so ever for why I had to do it I mean uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it's a company that it's basically a oh management engineering company [speaker001:] um-hum so they were doing it just to they wanted to make sure that their employees were productive probably that's why [speaker002:] now what wait but then but then uh but then if the if you're saying that [speaker001:] that's probably why they justified it [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] no I'm just trying to imagine why they would wanna test you [speaker002:] they should also regulate right what they should also regulate how many hours of sleep I must have they should also regulate how much what kind of nutrition I have they should also regulate see it's a it's a it's a disturbing trend [speaker001:] right right yeah I I think that people who do something that could hurt somebody else [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh should be subject to the testing I guess that's probably the the way I'd term it and I'm talking about bus drivers as you mentioned and pilots and what have you uh others that really can only hurt themselves shall we say uh [speaker002:] um-hum

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] so regarding this proposal um personally I guess my my initial feeling is that it it would be a great experience for kids um I I don't think that they really get that sort of experience working with the community [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] through school through college I I just don't think people have that opportunity anymore [speaker001:] yeah probably not as much so [speaker002:] I think it would be a great way to keep kids busy so that they you know they they don't get on the wrong track um you know so that they they have someplace to go after school and they feel like they're producing um I mean who knows what they may be doing in their free time if they don't participate in something like this you know [speaker001:] right I guess my I you know I come out am sitting on the fence but I have some concerns about uh you know if you require someone to do this for a year or two [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] that's a big chunk out of someone's life uh certainly you know there could be advantages and things to be learned [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] but on the other hand you know how do you enforce it or what if they are just totally against it then does it really [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] benefit anybody you know [speaker002:] um-hum that's true [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] that's true I mean it might turn people more off than on if they're forced to do something that they don't want to do [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I guess a year is a long time maybe six months might be a little bit more reasonable [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but I can see a lot of benefits in that it might uh interest some people that had never thought of maybe going into social work or [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] or that sort of thing um and gosh we all know that there's a need for that [speaker001:] or might teach them a little more empathy towards those who you know have problems and need help with things [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum that's true [speaker001:] well I was thinking too um we usually think of the Peace Corps as going overseas to do something but if they required this where you stay in the US and you know benefit the people here and perhaps too the fact that we have more elderly people now [speaker002:] um um-hum [speaker001:] uh you know it could be an advantage to them [speaker002:] um-hum I think it would be nice if they could you almost give it as course credit [speaker001:] um um-hum [speaker002:] you know um have it be just like real life teaching in a sense and maybe then uh people are feeling like they're getting something out of it too but that certainly everyone else would be getting something out of them participating and and I mean I I even think that that sort of experience is worth a lot more than reading a textbook sometimes [speaker001:] yeah yeah well and probably too even those who might initially be opposed once they got into it then they you know would see that hey this this is giving me some benefit as well I mean they they might not express it in words so much but just sort of get in step with with uh what's going on and and really enjoy it [speaker002:] um-hum right um-hum yeah when I was in college I worked um with a group and I actually ran a Big Brother Big Sister program [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] and besides just you know having this extracurricular thing I really noticed that it gave people a sense of commitment you know they learned that they need to if they make a a if they have a responsibility especially if it's dealing with another person you know someone else might be relying on them for something um you know depending on them to either be somewhere or take someone someplace or something like that [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] you know that that you really learn to to be dependable you know you learn that when someone's relying on you you need to be there [speaker001:] uh-huh I think a lot of our young people need to learn that [speaker002:] oh it's really it's true [speaker001:] oh older ones too I know a few of those [speaker002:] yeah well I I work at a in a personnel agency and um I've just found the work ethics of people to be disgusting [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I mean you know I'll someone might not show up for work and you'll call them and oh they overslept or oh they just didn't feel like going to work and so I lose my job I'll get another one [speaker001:] um-hum yeah I don't understand that either that's that's tough [speaker002:] I I I know I mean I wish I was lucky enough to not want to work you know but um I mean perhaps that this sort of training early in life before people develop bad habits might not be such a bad idea but [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but you know it is it is a commitment and perhaps these people would rather be doing something else just as constructive and we're making them do that [speaker001:] yeah well another thing too is if you have uh some young people who are really gifted and who are leaning towards maybe the uh math and science and that sort of thing which they say we have a shortage of [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] taking them away from that which they are centered on might you know be a a bad thing to take a couple years out of beginning you know their life in that respect they might you know get off on some other track but you know it's hard to say [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum um-hum yeah yeah it is I don't know I think it's a very interesting um discussion you know and and there's certainly uh lots of pros and cons around it [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um I I wish I had that sort of choice I mean maybe maybe it could end up being a choice and things that um you know what the problem is that now it's seen as almost a punishment like when somebody um I don't know remember wasn't it Zsa Zsa Gabor that had to do community service work for like a year [speaker001:] yeah oh yeah and she didn't get around to it very much [speaker002:] right right or something like that and a lot of um you felonies felony people you know have to do this sort of community service [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and I think it's getting the wrong sort of uh um connotation with it it shouldn't be looked at as a punishment [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] it shouldn't be looked at something to do to make up for other things that you did [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I I think it needs to be community service needs to have more of a positive um light towards it and have it look as something you know that you did because you wanted to do it because you saw the benefits out of it and not as something that you know oh you you did it instead of going to jail for three months or something like that I mean that's that's a feeling I get now and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I I wouldn't want it I wouldn't want to be one of those people that's being taken care of somehow knowing that this person is doing it to get out of a sentence or or you know because they were bad in some other way [speaker001:] yeah yeah but I guess that's not a terrible alternative if you've you know you've done something that's not too terrible but they want to slap your hand a little bit so [speaker002:] um-hum but bad enough right yeah that's true [speaker001:] better than ju st sitting in jail all day not doing anything but but yeah I agree with your point it [speaker002:] yeah right yeah [speaker001:] it might not make the other person feel like you were really wanting to be there yeah [speaker002:] really important yeah that's true well this has been interesting [speaker001:] well I yeah enjoyed talking to you all right bye-bye [speaker002:] you too take care bye-bye

[speaker001:] all right uh what kind of hobbies are you into [speaker002:] well I'm quilting and uh pressing fact I was pressing a the uh pieces for a quilt block I will stop start stitching on when the phone rang [speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] so where uh what are you into woodwork [speaker001:] uh no uh tole painting and uh [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] folk art [speaker002:] yeah I saw something uh you've seen these old wooden school desks the old ones [speaker001:] uh um-hum [speaker002:] I saw some uh or one anyway in a shop here oh I don't even remember where I was two or three weeks ago that had been uh painted with that looked like maybe just a flat finish and then tole painting on it and the uh flowers and borders and trims and stuff and it was just real pretty [speaker001:] yeah yeah we we used to live in Hillsboro and I there's a a lady that I knew that had a uh gift shop and she gave art lessons and I've taken lessons there and got into it and tried a little bit of landscaping so painting is pretty interesting [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] how long you been quilting quite a while or [speaker002:] no not uh not a real long time since about um I guess it was in probably nineteen eighty eight when I got into it and I belong to a quilt guild in in McKinney we just meet once a month but uh we've had a project going this last almost a year now where we uh when I joined the quilt guild there was just I made the I think the thirteenth member and we just wrote down the names of the months and then we all drew for uh a month and everyone in the guild makes a block for the the person who's turn it is that month and we have the uh privilege of selecting a pattern or of colors or providing the material and the pattern or some of them just say uh for instance the December is what they call a Christmas sampler and she gave us one piece of uh fabric to use in it and then we have to come up with something else to go with it and when they're all put together needless to say they've got enough for a block and our guild has grown now to where we have twenty members [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and so uh February is when I get the blocks and my husband has picked the the pattern that he wants and the colors so it'll be it'll be interesting [speaker001:] yeah it sounds like it I've seen some beautiful quilts around I I've got some that my mother made and I still have [speaker002:] oh goodness those are those are really family heirlooms and [speaker001:] yeah I've got one that uh she made when I was a kid with the you know Raggedy Ann and Andy patterns on it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and it's some of the stitches you know have come loose on it but you know I still keep it though [speaker002:] right do you work for Texas Instruments [speaker001:] uh no I I work for JC Penney's uh the guy that I'm in a a scout troop at Saint Rita's church by uh 635 and the tollway [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh John Godfrey that that TI who's doing this his son's in our scout troop and he contacted us and he he suggested that all the adult members do this and turn the money in that they collected for the phone calls to the troop so we you know pick up a little extra funds that way [speaker002:] oh well that's good it really is that's a a good fund raiser [speaker001:] yeah it's you know easy way to pick up maybe a thousand dollars and get enough adults involved [speaker002:] um-hum yeah it has been pretty quiet on the switchboard lately uh for a while I was getting calls pretty often and then they when the switchboard went down for a while and then after it started up again well we haven't uh it hasn't been real active I was a little bit surprised when I uh picked up the phone tonight and got the recording you know that it was [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] was back on and I have lost the number in fact maybe you could give it to me that you call in uh to make to make a call [speaker001:] okay okay you got a [speaker002:] and uh just a let's see if I get over here where I can get to a pen um I may get an incoming call anytime but uh my husband

[speaker001:] so how do you uh so it so it sounds like you've got a television going on there so I can assume that you probably watch TV news is that [speaker002:] I almost never watch TV news I get most of my news driving back and forth to work listening to the radio [speaker001:] really wow uh what what station do you listen to [speaker002:] uh it's a local radio station it's called uh KLIF cliff [speaker001:] cliff I see so um it's not affiliated with anything is it not not a network station okay yeah because I I listen to uh public radio a lot and they have [speaker002:] no no [speaker001:] they have KCRW which I I I saw a thing recently they may be trying to start their own uh cable TV outlet I guess they're getting a little getting a little feisty now [speaker002:] well this has this station has a lot of just ongoing news [speaker001:] uh [speaker002:] and occasionally in the morning I'll pick up something like uh CNN or that but I hate watching the like ten o'clock news or [speaker001:] yeah so you have a paper or something or [speaker002:] yeah we have a local well we have uh Dallas Morning News which is the big paper in Dallas we read it I read it pretty much [speaker001:] um-hum yeah [speaker002:] from cover to cover [speaker001:] how do you like it it's been it's been a while since I read the Dallas news I uh fact last time I read the Dallas Dallas news I was in Arkansas uh [speaker002:] the Times Herald went out of business here [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] and so we really only have one Dallas newspaper and one Fort Worth newspaper [speaker001:] well that must be pretty bad so how did that happen anyway [speaker002:] uh financial trouble [speaker001:] no not how I mean when did it when did they yeah [speaker002:] oh when did it happen I guess they closed down about three months ago [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] huh so how do you keep up [speaker001:] oh me I um good grief I read the Times Los Angeles Times there's uh quite a task if you've ever run into one they're uh specially [speaker002:] yes they're very voluminous [speaker001:] yeah they're thick um if there's something you want to know it's it's in the Times and then in in detail um they uh we we used to have two papers here in town and then the Herald Examiner collapsed about two years ago because of oh I don't know just just nobody was buying it really [speaker002:] so there really is only one major LA newspaper now [speaker001:] yeah pretty much um there used to be in fact I think there still is the uh the Daily News which runs out of the San Fernando Valley and um they're not bad as far as a uh you know as far as a local paper goes in fact it was kind of weird because I met the uh I met the I met the editor uh while I was on uh while I was doing jury service in Santa Monica one time it was like we just sat around and talk about newspapers and stuff he was a really cool guy um you know went to Columbia University and all this stuff and uh it's it's a pretty good paper but um you know it's not the it's not the Times [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] although I see you know I'm starting to see some of their um there's there's a daily new uh news rack right around the corner from where I live which means that they're they're expanding I guess but uh and and occasionally I I pick up like Time magazine or something I think uh if they've got an interesting lead story but you know it's I I don't have time [speaker002:] I used to read Time magazine a lot but I don't read it much anymore [speaker001:] yeah that's that's kind of a problem for them there's a lot of people who fall into that category [speaker002:] and then we have a local rag here in town that I pick up periodically and read just to see what's going on in our little community [speaker001:] uh-huh I see [speaker002:] because we don't get an awful lot of coverage in the Dallas Morning News [speaker001:] yeah the big dailies don't like to don't like to step much out of their uh out of their home turf I have to admit the Times is kind of provincial too it's basically anything that's south of downtown they don't bother to cover [speaker002:] now they have started here running a three day or three times a week Plano section [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's just sort of a you know four or five pages that covers what's going on in Plano but it's still not an awful lot of news [speaker001:] yeah I know I uh it was it was a big discovery when when the Times when the Times found out there was a place called Orange County I mean the way they I mean the way they've been handling it before they practically they practically acted like their reporters needed shots to go south of the LA county border [speaker002:] oh I would imagine in uh you know in Dallas they have plenty happening in Dallas to cover that it gets hard covering all of the suburbs suburbs and of course they tend to cover the county and we're not in Dallas county so they tend to ignore places outside of the county [speaker001:] yeah oh really yeah yeah I I I find that attitude kind of arrogant though it's like you're taking our money but you're not bothering to cover things that are interesting to us [speaker002:] yeah

[speaker001:] yeah I had this topic uh the last time I called I believe [speaker002:] my goodness that's unusual [speaker001:] well do you have any uh children or are you in college [speaker002:] mine uh well mine are grown and uh of course uh I've already been through this with them [speaker001:] I see well [speaker002:] and I guess I'll have to help with grandchildren one of these days I hope [speaker001:] certainly and where did your uh children go to college [speaker002:] well one went to A and M and one went to um uh oh Stephen F Austin and one went to North Texas and one went to University of Texas at Dallas [speaker001:] well that's great [speaker002:] and one of them ended up at El Centro in one of the uh specialized programs and another is putting herself through right now back at UTD [speaker001:] I see well that's great I'm the director of admissions at UTD [speaker002:] oh well good well I'm glad you let her in [speaker001:] well what advice did you give them when they were choosing their colleges it looks like they uh you have a variety there [speaker002:] well the main thing was uh what is it you want to study and uh where is the best place to get what you need and [speaker001:] well [speaker002:] how far is it from home I had to put in and and then course we also had to include how much is it gonna cost [speaker001:] well you're going right down my list uh the first thing that I always talk to students about is the academic program because if we don't have what you're looking for it isn't gonna do you any good no matter how bad you wanna come here [speaker002:] yeah that's true that's true [speaker001:] and uh cost is always uh usually next on the list especially for the parents and uh financial assistance and scholarships [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and usually then we talk a little bit about uh the size of the school and uh different types of organizations and activities that they can get involved in and of course distance from home and size of classes and [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] um it sounds like uh from your experience you know how to go right down the list with them [speaker002:] well you have to be practical because uh I know um our our first daughter went uh to Stephen F Austin and uh her allergies acted up in the Piney Woods and it was too far from home and she got lonesome and that didn't work out for her so I guess I learned on that one [speaker001:] yeah you you know it's interesting especially when uh uh my experience uh has always been at a public university and uh a lot of the students in that home town uh sometimes shun the idea of staying and going to school across the street so to speak [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] but uh it always seems like at the beginning of the year they're talking about well I'm going to this state and I'm getting out of here and I'm going way over there [speaker002:] um-hum um-hum [speaker001:] and a lot of times when it gets right down to the practical aspect of it they end up staying pretty darn close to home because they can save money as far as housing and uh laundry [speaker002:] um-hum laundry and food I think food has a lot to do with it too [speaker001:] you bet it sure does [speaker002:] and mother doing the laundry especially with the boys the girls it don't seem the laundry isn't that quite that important because they seem to know how to handle that better but the boys it's that laundry that throws them there for a while [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] even when they know how to use the washing machine [speaker001:] well there's a little barrier around the washing machine and the dryer and uh for some reason men just can't get around that barrier [speaker002:] oh well we'll have to give them the pass key I guess do you have uh uh more than the one daughter to plan for [speaker001:] uh I have a daughter that's a seventh grader and then I have a son that's a sophomore at uh Shepton High School [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and so it's uh it's been interesting watching them uh sign up for appropriate course work and things and they're they're on the college bound track at least [speaker002:] um-hum well that's good do you find that uh the boy is going in a different direction than the girl as far as what his uh um needs are and the type of college he wants [speaker001:] well uh they certainly have two different personalities but uh in terms of needs the older son is interested in the medical field [speaker002:] well yeah good [speaker001:] and uh at this particular point you know taking appropriate course work but really nothing uh that's in out of the ordinary [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and uh the daughter has indicated that uh she wants to get a degree in uh business um and then go on to become President sure you bet and [speaker002:] um-hum okay I'll vote for her if she has good track record hope I'm around to do so [speaker001:] well I uh you know we're we we try to be conscious of uh of the uh equal uh equal rights and uh

[speaker001:] okay um I guess um this is probably really a good subject for me because I really like to do uh hand work uh mostly I do needlepoint I guess [speaker002:] oh really what kinds of things have you done [speaker001:] but um um well I've made a lot of baby gifts it seem like that's like especially lately there's been so many babies that uh bibs and blankets and things like that wall hangings [speaker002:] aha [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] do you ever keep any of your stuff [speaker001:] isn't that funny no [speaker002:] I do crochet and a lot of uh things like that and I have very little of my own stuff and it's kind of embarrassing people say let me see some of your work oh well can you go to so and so's house [speaker001:] yeah isn't that funny I guess I do have one thing friend of mine gave me a clock kit and I I needlepointed the face [speaker002:] yes ooh [speaker001:] and I uh kept that because she gave me that so [speaker002:] that that would be definitely something you'd want to keep was was the whole face done or just the numbers and and like minute [speaker001:] oh yeah and it's real neat [speaker002:] marks [speaker001:] um basically the whole well no I guess the minute marks but the minute marks are done they're like hearts [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] and then the at the numbers they they're kind of outlined and stuff it it was quite bit of work but you know it was a lot of fun too I really like doing stuff like that so [speaker002:] I did some needlepoint years ago and then I got into the Bargello [speaker001:] oh what's that [speaker002:] well it's an Italian um needlework using using the uh I started to say the canvas but the uh hum the what kind of cloth uses that I I've just gone blank but it's used with yarn and it usually takes long stitches over two or three openings in the cloth [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] and you weave intricate patterns and use different colors like it could be a flame stitch where so rather than drawing a picture you're making a design like a geometric or whatever and it was used quite often in the colonial times to uh uh to upholster chairs and so forth as well as the crewel um embroidery work that was done on them [speaker001:] wow that's interesting what did you what kind of things did you do [speaker002:] what I did when I was doing that was mostly pillows you know for sofas and so forth and [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] I can't find one that I've done it it's one of those things I didn't I didn't give them away but I didn't know if it's been my color choice or multiple moves [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] or or what and it I was so proud of them when I got them finished but I have no idea where they are [speaker001:] what did you call that [speaker002:] bargello it's B A R G E double L O [speaker001:] huh that's I've never heard of that before I've probably seen it though I mean when you described it [speaker002:] I suspect you I suspect you have [speaker001:] yeah I mean when you described it it sounded like something you know that would be around I guess but I've never heard of it before and it's really interesting um I guess I've decorated baskets and stuff before in the past but I've kind of gotten out of that I use to do a lot more and sell at craft shows [speaker002:] me too yeah that's interesting [speaker001:] really that's yeah it is [speaker002:] how did you know to choose this subject tonight that's funny uh how did you what kinds of decorations did you use with the baskets how were you decorating the baskets [speaker001:] oh basically bows and lace uh ribbons um I really wanted to do you know so many of them now have the ribbons where I'm not sure how they do it but the ribbons [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] they make them they like I don't know how to explain it they make them hard you know [speaker002:] like fabric that's been stiffened in yes [speaker001:] yeah I've never done that and those are so neat I mean I would really like to do those but [speaker002:] I've seen some and there there they I suspect they're fairly simple because the one lady I've seen I know that does it I've never asked her any questions but she has three kids all under the age of like six [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and and they're all a handful so it's got to be something she can do fairly easily and fairly quickly [speaker001:] oh definitely yeah [speaker002:] when I do um crochet it's usually the lacy Victorian type [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] things like that and I stiffen those with a a glue mixture it's like white glue and it may be something similar to that that the fabric is dipped in and then allowed to dry in those those draping bows I mean those draping streamers I don't know I was just there's bound to be some kind of fabric stiffener like that that's very similar that's not going to melt too much with uh [speaker001:] oh yeah [speaker002:] uh high humidity [speaker001:] that's I think that's what my concern was was it really sure and how they would how they would last [speaker002:] in in a room do you know what my concern is how will I dust this thing I'm terrible [speaker001:] you're right no that's true that's funny [speaker002:] so many of my crafts well right now I'm looking at a little uh quilted uh uh hanging it's like it's a flag and I don't want to wash it because that would start breaking down the batting and so forth but it's such a dust collector to be [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] out and so forth and most of my things are dust collectors uh and I hate to dust so first thing I think of is how easy would this thing be to clean [speaker001:] oh I know that's funny no I just um I have really gotten out of it I don't do it quite as much as I used to um I guess because I I went back to school so I don't have as much time [speaker002:] oh you don't have time [speaker001:] now and I have two children also so that it keeps me very busy but I really enjoy it when I do do it when I get the chance you know it's really [speaker002:] you definitely don't have time [speaker001:] it's so relaxing to just sit and but once I get started I can't put it down I just [speaker002:] that I have a similar problem I've got to have time or I don't even want to get into it in the first place [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and so I end up lots of time not doing anything at all [speaker001:] I know I started a project it's been over a year ago that I swore I was going to finish for somebody for Christmas and I [speaker002:] you just didn't say which Christmas right [speaker001:] that's what I keep telling this person well I didn't tell you what year [speaker002:] what was this project [speaker001:] um well it's a it's uh cross stitch and it's a picture and it's a wildlife it has deer and trees and it's really beautiful but it's going to be a lot of work and you know I've I have worked on it quite a bit but not as much as I'd like to you know it's just so hard [speaker002:] now this is done in the needlepoint [speaker001:] uh-huh well I shouldn't it's counted cross stitch actually is what I'm doing and so it's really since it's counted you know it's really a lot of work yep [speaker002:] yes yes I do know I have done a little bit of that but I've decided that that's something that demands my time my my total attention [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so I've got to have total almost total silence I can't really watch television if the pattern is very intricate it sounds like you'd have lots of shading on that particular piece it is not does not sound like an easy one to finish [speaker001:] uh-huh yep no it really isn't and I tell you really I could just kick myself for even starting it because I have a feeling I'm never going to get it done I'm probably going to hear about it the rest of my life [speaker002:] oh I'm sure you'll get it done but it just may not of the original obviously not of the original time schedule [speaker001:] no that's true I I just don't know when I'm ever it just seems like there's just never enough time to pick it up and do it you know it's just really hard but I really do en like I said I really enjoy it when I do it's just hard [speaker002:] just hard finding the time that can be dedicated to that [speaker001:] uh-huh and there's there's so many other things that I I have done you know in the meantime like I said so many baby gifts I've made a lot of bibs and wall hangings and so you know those don't take much time at all so it's no big deal for me to pick those up and do them [speaker002:] do you do you use patterns I mean like a book of patterns or do you go out an buy a a kit like for a bib or something like that [speaker001:] no no I usually just buy a pattern book I have several pattern books and I just go with those [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] and then I buy the bibs separate usually I think it's a little bit cheaper in the long run and then I just use whatever colors I want to I don't usually use the colors they tell me to and it it depends on what it is you know but some things especially letters [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] if they suggest certain colors for letters I just go with whatever I want to yeah I yeah [speaker002:] that's what I would do too [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] or whatever I have that's [speaker001:] there's yeah there's a few designs I guess I've done myself but not very many real simple ones you know I do I've made I made a little uh little uh little thumb print and made it a bunny [speaker002:] ooh [speaker001:] it was really easy I mean just just did a thumb print you know [speaker002:] what what with ink oh okay [speaker001:] uh-huh and then see I didn't cross stitch the actual thumb print you know that was just the ink and then I made the ears and little eyes and nose and mouth that was so simple and it just it didn't take anything at all [speaker002:] oh that sounds really neat did you do did you use like a stamp pad an ink okay so you just [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] just like being finger printed [speaker001:] and then I just

[speaker001:] well we don't do much eating out [speaker002:] oh well we wonder how these topics get chosen where was the last place you went out to eat [speaker001:] uh Benny's [speaker002:] well last place we went was uh uh oh we went to uh Popeye's uh Fried Chicken well actually it was a drive through [speaker001:] yeah well uh ours usually consists of McDonald's I've got two young kids and they love McDonald's [speaker002:] well our our kids are a little older actually we got a a seventeen year old and a and a fourteen year old but but we still wind up I still I like fast food reasonably well [speaker001:] yeah well uh I know it put on some weight for us so we stayed away them or tried to but I love to take the kids they say uh what do you look for to bring them uh to look at to uh come back to [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I was talking to my husband while I was listening to they was trying to find a call and uh I said it's the toy uh uh the play yard out in the front yard you know that McDonald's has [speaker002:] well how old are your kids [speaker001:] four and two [speaker002:] oh so they really like that sort of stuff then [speaker001:] yeah they they'd rather go out there and play in the yard than eat [speaker002:] I can remember many times that when when it's interesting though that that you know particularly when you're traveling and you go some place you can stop at a McDonald's that's that's a big playground uh when the kids you know when the kids really need to get out and run around after been driving a while [speaker001:] yeah well we've took a we was living out in Memphis and we used to drive back and forth to Louisville that's where we usually from Louisville Kentucky and uh you know we'd stop at the fast foods there uh usually I like to go just to get the kids out have them in a confined space where I can uh sit down and relax and be able to watch them too [speaker002:] yeah that that that's really nice that they started doing that because it's the problem is you take them to some place nice and and you know the um even a place where they have to to sit down even if they really get kids they get they get bored in a hurry [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and uh yeah you know we now that we're a little older we can go to I I still like um I like buffets [speaker001:] yeah they got a couple all you can eat down here and uh we haven't went to them yet but I've been threatening my husband that we'll go [speaker002:] yeah well have you been in the area very long [speaker001:] no we've only well we've been in Texas for two years little a little under two years [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] so uh not really I don't know it too well [speaker002:] you say you in Denison oh okay so we were I was in Sherman um [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] hum last month of the I took a I sponsored a youth group up there and uh it was funny we went to a uh oh we must have had thirty of us and we went into a Pizza Hut and you wander into a Pizza Hut with that kind of crowd and they sort of hate to see you coming so they're they get the business but with a crowd of people it's uh it it it was kind of funny and we went in first and then it was so crowded and we went and I'm trying to think it's right off anyway I don't know if it's Pizza Hut or Pizza Inn anyway we went to another one and and uh they the rates there are fairly reasonable but uh you know even those places are starting to have you know video games and things for kids to your kids play video games [speaker001:] oh my son does he he's the four year old I've got a Nintendo that he plays with [speaker002:] oh well that gives him something to amuse him while there uh [speaker001:] yeah yeah well he likes those crane games you know where you try to win a toy [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] he likes every time we pass one he wants me to win him a toy [speaker002:] well do you have do you have any like Chucky Cheese or trying to [speaker001:] well I remember Chucky Cheeses was down in Lewisville uh I haven't seen one here [speaker002:] well they got one um in Richardson probably me I try and think there there there's a couple of those that they combined and it's a combination pizza parlor and all kinds of [speaker001:] in a game room and toy room yeah [speaker002:] and yeah and and they have the room full of balls and [speaker001:] yeah Show Biz Pizza [speaker002:] yeah yeah Show Biz that's the name of it [speaker001:] that's what it is Show Biz yeah uh [speaker002:] well do you like the pizza at Show Biz [speaker001:] yeah it's alright uh I haven't seen one down here I think where there was one in in Memphis when we was there [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] uh and it was great Steven the only thing that Steven didn't like that's my son was uh you know they had those dancing bears and stuff it scared him to death [speaker002:] yeah yeah well you know they're so large they animated it [speaker001:] yeah I think that's what it was but uh he he'd rather go and ride on the rides you know they had airplanes that go up and down and stuff and [speaker002:] yeah that's really uh yeah we were until the kids got older we'd go there and you know it was um that right I'll date myself a little bit but it's remarkable the number of those things they need merged or something but it still it's still quite popular I have to I'm not sure the pizza was okay I mean [speaker001:] well we went one time uh one of my ex-boyfriends had taken me this was years and years ago and uh I'd taken my younger brother he's about twelve years younger than I am and uh [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] I remember eating their pizza and they had put anchovies and all this on it I mean they piled it up [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it was the nastiest tasting pizza I've ever tasted me I rather go Master Mister Gatti's or there's a Godfather's down in uh Memphis and that was a good pizza I've never tasted a better pizza [speaker002:] well well well do you ever go out to any of the higher higher end type more expensive places [speaker001:] uh no the last expensive place I went to it was a it was a Shoney's huh and we went there every Tuesday night and or Saturday night when we was playing uh when I was playing softball with uh [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] a softball league down in Memphis we went and uh that's the most expensive place we went to [speaker002:] um well we got a lot of barbecue places around around the Dallas area Spring Creek Barbecue that's right in Richardson and it uh I I like the barbecue there um and it it's fairly reasonable you can get um it I mean if if you know you go through the line and and pick up your food [speaker001:] yeah well it's kind of hard to take two kids uh to a nice place number one they bug all the other people and uh or so we think they do and [speaker002:] yeah it is they're probably just being normal though [speaker001:] yeah but uh I don't know I every time I set up a baby sitter to uh go out and do something my husband uh nixes it and says we'll stay home this day and [speaker002:] well when the you know it's funny when the when the when the kids get a lot older though you can you can you can do as you please our son graduates this year and we're kind of looking forward to [speaker001:] yeah well I can't I'll you know I say I can't wait for my kids to grow up but I believe I'm going to miss this age when they're gone [speaker002:] yeah yeah they're [speaker001:] uh but I I do want my freedom back I'm sure my husband does too [speaker002:] well the you know it's it's kind of like wanting to talk you know and um but and then they learned to say no and it's kind of funny but they uh the the and now they get older our son's a senior in high school will talk to us but he you know you know it's mostly um no it [speaker001:] not really anything really important in his life [speaker002:] no no no and it's sort of I guess it's a little disappointing but but I suppose it's it's just the way life is but [speaker001:] yeah I I can't you know I can't relate to that just yet uh you know I mean my daughter she doesn't know the word yes it's no every time you turn around you know and my son I I can't de scribe him it's I don't know why or you know [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh can't relate to a seventeen year old yet [speaker002:] well it it you know everybody all says you'd be surprised how quickly it comes but it it uh we moved here in seventy six and daughter was six weeks old and and hard to believe in nearly fifteen years [speaker001:] uh you sound like you got a Louisiana accent [speaker002:] no I I I grew up in uh in Alabama [speaker001:] Alabama okay alright alright I guess close to the Louisiana border [speaker002:] well no actually and I was until I was eight I lived in in in south uh western Georgia and then we moved over into central part of Alabama [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] but I've been away from there for goodness I haven't lived in Alabama since nineteen sixty five that's been a long time ago I lived several places Europe and [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] in Asia yeah I spent [speaker001:] military yeah my my husband was in the Navy [speaker002:] but so I was in the Air Force [speaker001:] what were you in Air Force uh I he tried to get in there they wouldn't take him [speaker002:] yeah uh I was I went in in nineteen and sixty five when they were drafting people in fact my father was on the draft board so [speaker001:] yeah well uh I I was born in sixty five so I can't say that uh husband was only five years old then too [speaker002:] yeah well it things are different when uh everybody in in fact that it that was Vietnam era I was in fact I went to Vietnam myself [speaker001:] yeah well uh [speaker002:] it was it's it's a different world [speaker001:] yeah well I know uh I don't just just out of curiosity how do you feel about these guys getting a welcome home that you all didn't get [speaker002:] well see I never had a hard time coming home it didn't uh you know there all these people who spit on them and all these kinds of things I I came home and got married and I I never uh I and could now but I didn't and I mentioned that to my wife and she said well you never wore your uniform when you were off duty but I didn't uh I flew into Los Angeles um but I had um when I was in Vietnam but I by then when we landed actually went into Seattle Tacoma and I changed out of my uniform civilian clothes and and I never course I stayed in I stayed in the Air Force a number of years but I never had any problems um and all this the all the of course I wasn't in combat either um I was a staff weenie

[speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] Hi. [speaker001:] Hi. [speaker002:] Okay. You want to start? [speaker001:] Um, yeah. Sure. Um, I think, I think we should have a balanced budget even if it means that services are dramatically cut back. If you can't pay for it, you shouldn't have it. Period. And, [speaker002:] That is very true. [speaker001:] That's just. [speaker002:] However, our whole economy is based on loans. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, uh, but, bet right this moment, you probably have several loans out or you have borrowed money against your credit card or something [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] Master Charge. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I don't have a Master Charge, thank you [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, see our whole system is built on owing [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] not borrowing. [speaker001:] But, that's the problem, see. Our system shouldn't be based on owing and borrowing and all that. [speaker002:] Uh, true. But, uh, uh, without it, people wouldn't be able to own automobiles or they wouldn't be able to own a house. [speaker001:] Yes, they would. They just wouldn't be able to own the kind of automobiles that they think they deserve to own. Or the kind of homes that we think we deserve to own. We might have to, you know, just be able to, I think, if we, a generation went without debt, then the next generation, like, if, if our, our generation, my husband and I, we're twenty-eight, if we lived our lives and didn't become, you know, indebted, like you know, our generation before us, that, um, the budget would balance. And that we became accustomed to living with what we could afford, which we wouldn't be destitute, I mean, we wouldn't be living on the street, by any means. But just compared to how spoiled we are, we would be in our own minds, but I feel like the generation after us would, oh, man, it would be so good. It would be so much better. It wouldn't be perfect, but then, they could learn to live with what they could afford to save to buy. And if you want a nicer car than that, well, you save a little longer. [speaker002:] Well, now I agree, uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I agree with you one hundred percent. I'm just taking the other side so we'll have a discussion here. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Uh, but I still go to right back to what I said. When is the time you had fifteen thousand dollars all at one time to go out and buy an automobile? [speaker001:] But, see, we made poor choices in college. We took out two, both of us had twenty thousand dollars in loans, for student loans [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and I look back on that, and I bought shoes. I went shopping. I did not need that money. I did not need it. I didn't need it. I shouldn't have even qualified to get it. I didn't need it. And it would have been a little rough, I might have eaten some bologna instead of roast beef out of the deli, but I did not need it. And as I look back now, now we're paying that back. I told my son, if you have to live in the ghetto to go to college, do it, but don't take out ten thousand dollars in loans. Don't do it. And I don't, I hope, don't think he'll have to do that but, I just feel like if we didn't have those loans, we could have saved in the last five years the money for that, and I believe we would have, because God's really put it in our heart not to get in debt, you know. But we have friends in church that do this on a constant basis, that are totally debt free. And they pay cash for everything they buy. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Including new vans, and, so, so I guess, I've seen it done and I know you can do it, you know. But you have to drive that old car until you get that money saved up for that new van. And that's where Americans don't like to do it. And so and we don't want to cut back our services from the government, because we're spoiled. [speaker002:] Well, I have one way to suggest reducing the budget. [speaker001:] What? [speaker002:] Very simple. Just take all these civil service employees, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and, uh, uh, take some of those holidays away from them, like Columbus Day, President's Day, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] I know. [speaker002:] I mean, they, they get all these days off. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Now give them, [speaker001:] I know. [speaker002:] what a, a week, I think we here at T I get a total of eleven a year. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And that's about, uh, three or four less than civil servants get. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Now just look at that money the government could save if they didn't have all of those days off, all those holidays. [speaker001:] Yeah, that is true. Because I always think the mail never comes on these days and you're like, well, what is it [LAUGHTER]. You don't even know it's a holiday [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, now don't forget the mail is something else again. That has nothing, they're not civil servant people. [speaker001:] But isn't it federal, in the federal budget? [speaker002:] No, no, they have their own budget they go by. [speaker001:] But isn't it part of our income, it's not part of our taxes? [speaker002:] No. [speaker001:] It's not? [speaker002:] That's why the price of mailing a letter keeps going up. [speaker001:] That's why it keeps going up, uh? [speaker002:] You know, I could [speaker001:] That's another topic [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I can remember the days when it cost only three cents to mail, uh, uh, uh, a letter. [speaker001:] Those stamps are valuable, now. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] They probably, hey, I ought to go looking through some of my old mail. [speaker001:] That's funny. Yeah, and that is a good short term thing, though. That little things like that, that overall, though, I just think we're just going to, I don't know, see, I know, I guess I'm kind of leery of this topic, because I know that Bush is real for the new world order. The one world government, and alleviating all, you know, national debt between all of the nations. But I see that to be a potential power problem later, with, um, who's going to be in charge with this new world order. And I, you know, I'm uncomfortable with that much power being in one place. But, I know, we already have a new money system. We already have new bills printed, for, the U S Treasury already has our new bills printed for new currency, and I've seen them [LAUGHTER]. And so I know that the long-term vision for the U S government is to alleviate all national debts and to start over afresh, but I'm concerned with who's going to have the power over this new world order that they keep talking about, you know. That's a lot of power for one or two people to have. And so, um, I guess because I, I guess, in fact, I know what their long-term vision is. I'm kind of like, you know, yeah, the only answer is to start over or to totally change our lifestyles. And I don't think Americans are willing to do it. [speaker002:] Well, what about, uh, uh, sending all this money overseas supporting other governments, third world governments. How do you feel about that? [speaker001:] I don't, I don't feel we should loan them money. If I, I wish our leaders were really seeking the Lord on these things, and if we feel led to give a country money to help them, fine. But I don't feel we should be loaning money like that. I mean, it doesn't work, I mean. [speaker002:] Well, in so many cases, it's not a loan, it's just a give away. [speaker001:] But it's not, but it's not set up as a giveaway. If it were set up as giveaway, and it was something, that, I mean, our, our President and our leaders could be seeking God saying, God is it your will for us to bless this nation with this money, is it your will, this money and your will for us to give to them, and I believe if we gave it, no strings attached that God would bless our nation. But because we're, our motive is interest, our motive is not pure, it just backfires, I mean, none of these nations have paid us back. But, you understand, it's, I guess it's a principle of giving and receiving. You give it, no strings attached and they may never give you anything back, but because there's no strings attached, it like gives them a freedom to give us something back. And it might not be money, it might be, um, no taxes on our things, our computers going into their nation, it might come back in another way, but it would be come back. But because we're loaning it, I think that's the problem. And I don't mean give it to everybody that asks. Use a lot of discernment. Don't give money to every nation. You know, what I'm saying, I think we're loaning money to too many nations, but I think if we gave to a few select ones, that really needed it, that it would work out better for us and for them. And so now we have all these nations that owe us all this money and so I just think, we're never going to get that back, you know. Do you understand? [speaker002:] No. That, that's true. I, I understand that France still owes us money from World War I. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, World War Two debts have never been repaid. I think the U S just wrote them all off. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And said, well, we'll cancel it just like they did to the, that Polish debt here, uh, last week. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Uh, uh, half the countries of the world simply canceled the Poland debts to help them. [speaker001:] Right. Long, long term though, do you think it would best to see a one world, you know, you can't alleviate all national debts or do you think it would be better for our leaders to just start seeking God on how to turn our nation around financially? That's my opinion. My opinion's the latter. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Well, uh, I've got to respect your opinion. You have some [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] solid ideas. [speaker001:] I know. What's yours? Do you agree or do you disagree or I mean, what do you think long term? [speaker002:] Well, I don't believe in a single government or a single control for the world. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, that's asking for trouble. People are too different. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I mean you could travel from one coast to the other here in the U S and find a tremendous differences between the peoples. They have their own ideas how things should be run. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] So, therefore, I don't believe there could be a single government for the whole world. There's too many societies involved, uh, the language barriers. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, oh, sure, somebody said years ago, well, let's make it English, uh, international language. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] That's a big laugh, we can't even make English a national language here in our country. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] We've got too many, uh, uh, immigrants. [speaker001:] Yeah. Yeah. I know. [speaker002:] They don't call them immigrants anymore, that was back in my granddaddy's day. [speaker001:] Yeah. Different ethnic groups [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Yes. Yeah but, [speaker001:] Yeah. I know what your saying. *typo your -] you're [speaker002:] My grandfather came over from Lithuania back, uh, just before the turn of the century [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, as a matter of fact he's a draft dodger. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] He, uh, was supposed to serve some time. Well, he did serve his time in the, uh, in the militia. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And he came back. He was a civilian again and his father said well if,

[speaker001:] Here we go. [speaker002:] Okay, um, now we're supposed to talk about social activities. Right? [speaker001:] Well, the changes that's occurred, like it, how was it, maybe ten, twenty, thirty years ago as opposed to what it is today [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] how we're living socially in comparison to maybe from that time period from ten, twenty, or whatever you remember it to be. [speaker002:] I think, um, well, I guess it would be like your generation compared to my generation. I think your generation is, um, what do I say, uh, [breathing] uh, they're, they're, they're polite, they have more respect for, [speaker001:] [Throat clearing]. [speaker002:] other people, just in, in general I think, and just, just towards people and property and, um, I, I guess they would, would be more conservative, some of them I guess. [speaker001:] Yeah, we are, uh, somewhat conservative, but as far as the, uh, socially, our crime rate has increased, and although it's more publicized as opposed to what it used to be it seems like [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] violent crime is on the increase from what I've seen, and, um, our prison population has significantly increased I would say. Um, our economy, too, is really, it's just not what it used to be in the sixties or even fifties from history from what I've read, and [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, even the, well, it started spiraling down, I suppose, in the seventies, and, uh, our recovery, uh, economically has not been like it used to be. To me, also, our nuclear family is not the same because more people are living together [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that aren't married [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, I don't, I don't know if, uh, can't make any judgments of that nature, but, uh, I don't really want to either [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] because I have no problems about it either way [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, um, kids are, I, I suppose have been raised by single parents more than they ever used to [speaker002:] Yes, I agree with, [speaker001:] women are more on the rise too [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so far as getting their careers established, and, uh, they don't [speaker002:] Well, [speaker001:] no longer feel dependent upon men, [speaker002:] Well, do you think that that maybe, I mean, uh, I've heard different, you know, like, um, like I know my mom and like other ladies, they complain because they think that, um, the women now are too busy with their own personal life and career that they really don't have time for their kids. [speaker001:] That's probably true, I mean, they, they are, a lot of them that have to put their kids into day care [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or having more with baby sitters, and, especially if they don't have boy friends or husbands, and, uh, I guess that's why you always hear these stories about kids being neglected. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Uh, in fact, uh, there was one lady in this area, she was caught going to work and leaving her daughter in her car all day. [speaker002:] Oh my gosh, just a baby. [speaker001:] Not a baby, she was old enough to, uh, I would say she was five to eight years old [speaker002:] Oh my gosh. [speaker001:] somewhere along that range, but that's just an extreme example. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I would imagine, you know, the situations are out there. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Um, [speaker002:] Well, um, um, well, I think the education, like our education has, um, increased dramatically, but then I think also that we're forgetting like basic things, like we should know [speaker001:] I agree there. [speaker002:] like I, I think, well, um, in the morals and values of like my generation for the most, for most people are totally different from the morals and valleys, um, values of like per se your generation. But I think as we get older, it gets to your, you know what I mean. I think the kids now are, are, I would say, louder now until after they reach like twenty-five, and then I think they really have a strong decline and start to settle down and realize things. [speaker001:] Yeah, um, I could agree with that, because used to conservatism was inherent at a much younger age, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah, because I think we're given more now, whereas you had to work for everything, and kids nowadays are just given so much that they really don't have to work, and, you know, and they, they don't have any intent to go working until they have to. [speaker001:] Uh-huh, that's an agreeable topic there [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Um, what else considering beside family, economics, um, our transportation system has changed for us. I mean, we can, we can now travel around the world in no time. It's just a hop, skip and a jump to get into a plane to go from the east to the west coast [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, well, I, I think what's happened, too, is just our technology is just advancing so rapidly that, and there's so much information available out there that folks out there just have a hard time keeping up, aside from just going through their daily routine of living to get from day to day [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and to keep abreast of the knowledge out there, we got to constantly read, go to school, uh, T V watching has sure hasn't gone too much out the door because T V is still, well, the cable system and the satellite dishes has made it to where a lot of people can just leave regular T V programming and watch a lot of other, a variety of programs out there, as well as use of the V C R [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] so that, I don't know if it really hampers or it helps our education system. [speaker002:] I don't know, because I know I don't watch, while I'm up here at school, I don't watch hardly any T V. Like Thursday night I like to sit down and watch a few shows, but I, [speaker001:] Do you watch L A LAW? [speaker002:] No, I don't watch that [LAUGHTER]. I used to, but I don't any more. [speaker001:] I like that. [speaker002:] But, all, I mean there are, even though there's a few up here, we call them couch potatoes, they love to sit in front of the T V, I but for the most part, I will, I will, well, I live in an all girls dorm, but for the most part we're all between the ages of eighteen and like twenty-one [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and there isn't really a lot of T V watching. [speaker001:] Well, that's good, at least you're hitting the books, right. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] They're either hitting the books or something else, I don't know what, but, I know, oh, well, I guess, they have their crowds, like during the soap operas, you know, like in between classes or something [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but I can't say that there's really that many people that like sit in front of the T V all day. [speaker001:] Well, that's a change then, oh, of course, going to school, too, it's different from the home environment, [speaker002:] Uh-huh, but, then, um, like I know this girl. She's doing her student teaching or she's just working like within the school, and, um, yesterday she was at the kindergarten, and there's this little boy, he like didn't want to do anything, and he said I'm not doing this, I don't like it, and he sat at his desk with two pencils in his hand, and pretend like he's playing Nintendo [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] you know, so, uh, I don't know how, I mean, I never really watched that, a lot of T V when I was younger, but my parents really didn't allow us to watch that much T V, so I don't know. [speaker001:] I agree with your parents, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] because, uh, T V kind of ruined me, because that's that's all that we had [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] well, not really, but, I mean, it's, uh, for the top medium of entertainment. [speaker002:] Yeah, well, we watch a lot of, I guess we watched a lot of T V in the Winter time, but in the Summer, like right now, my mom, well, like she doesn't let us watch T V until like eight o'clock at night, you know, [speaker001:] Even at your age? [speaker002:] Well, like my younger brothers and sisters at home. Like when it starts [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] getting nice outside in the Summer and everything [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] she'll, she makes us go outside, even now when I go home for the Summer, she makes us go outside, and we're allowed to come in and watch T V until it's dark, because she doesn't like the T V herself [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] and if it was up to her, we wouldn't have one. So, you know, she feels that kids are too dependent on it also. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. Oh. Is there anything else? [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] Um. [speaker002:] What about in our work ethics? [speaker001:] Work ethics, oh, [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] I, [speaker001:] It's get-, it's maybe getting better. Um, a little, of course, we-, we-, we're having to weather through the savings and loans [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] all the other scandalous items that, well, the greed that overwhelmed us in the eighties [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, I think, I think it's going to have to have it's patchwork put on us [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] because we have so much to pay for now. It's going to be really passed on to your generation and maybe a few others [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] including what's left of ours [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] Well, I really can't think of anything else. [speaker001:] Well, it was nice talking to you. [speaker002:] It was nice talking to you too. [speaker001:] And, uh, what are majoring in?

[speaker001:] Are you a player? [speaker002:] Uh, I, I think I am. It's, it's been a while now [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Has it? [speaker002:] Yeah, I've, uh, oh, just recently I got married and we bought a house. We're about fifty yards from the golf course [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] but unfortunately the house is taking up my time. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So it's been, uh, it's been almost a year, I guess, since I've actually, uh, swung a club for a purpose. [speaker001:] Yeah, I hav-, I haven't played in about two years, and then I went out two weeks ago with the guys here. I work at T I. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And I played in a tournament out there, and I shot a net fifty-nine. They were kind of, little upset. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I guess I laid off long enough to get rid of all my bad habits. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] I have a hard time inventing shots, you know. Let's go around this tree, and [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you know, try a slice through a hook here, and I can't do that so. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I finally got out, and I've been watching quite a few videos. I had not been able to play so I took out a few videos and watched them for a while, and I, I hope I'm on the right track. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Shot a career low eighty-nine, so, and my handicap is twenty nine. [speaker002:] That's, that's great. [speaker001:] I like that. [speaker002:] Yeah. Now it's, uh, like I say, it's been a while for me, too. I, uh, I've got my wife motivated about it, um [speaker001:] Really. [speaker002:] and, uh, I think that's probably going to be one of the next investments, is get her, get her a set of clubs and, uh, we'll get out of the driving range and, and get some interest built up and hopefully we can, uh, we can start in. [speaker001:] Yeah, I've tried to get my wife, I bought her a set of clubs four years ago. She hasn't even swung them, but [speaker002:] Really. [speaker001:] she wants to get into it now after I came home and won the tournament the other day, she's [speaker002:] Well, great, great. That's good, [speaker001:] she's ready to get off into it, but, you know, I like, I just like getting out, being in the outdoors, and I'm a hunter and fisher anyway, but, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah, same thing here. [speaker001:] You know, at least I can get out and play a few hours of golf and it's not going to cost me an arm and a leg, really. [speaker002:] Right, right. [speaker001:] And I, you know, I walk, I don't ride so [speaker002:] Uh-huh, yeah. [speaker001:] you know, I get a little exercise there, too, so. [speaker002:] That's, I've got the same attitude. I, uh, I tell you, I started, I guess, the first time I played golf has been probably about eight or ten years ago now, when I was in college. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, I took, uh, I took it as a P E course and then kind of left it alone for a while, and then finally got, got into it when I was, while I was still in school [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] and since then, uh, we've made it, um, as, as the friends start getting married and things like that, we've made a tradition of, uh, having a, a Thursday, um, well, have, have probably like, like a Thursday night bachelor party and a Friday golf day before the wedding. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, so, it, that's back in South Dakota where I grew up [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] and, uh, so that, that's, uh, that's been my main, my main involvement, is it seems like I go home and play golf more than I do around here, but, uh [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] eventually I get people to come and visit me in Dallas, and then I'll show them we can play golf in the middle of winter when we can't do it back home. [speaker001:] Yeah, it's pretty nice. We played out here a couple of times in the middle of the winter when my parents came down and what not. They were amazed. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] You know, here it is, sixty-five degrees, we're out playing golf, and they're freezing cold back there, so. [speaker002:] Yep, yep. [speaker001:] But, I, uh, actually I picked it up when I was in high school, on the same as a P E course, you know, when I got into the service I got into it [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] and now when I come out here I just kind of let it go, and then one, one of the guys mentioned to me at work one day if I played golf. And I said, Well, yeah, you know, I've got my clubs, but I haven't swung them in quite a few years. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And then I got into it and then back out of it, and it just seems like every couple of years I get back in there [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's right. [speaker001:] You know, I really enjoy it. It's really nice. [speaker002:] Oh, it is, it's, it's a lot of fun, especially if you can find somebody that's, uh, that's got the same level of interest. That seem to be the hardest [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] thing. Well, about, that's, that's true of any sport, you know. If you want to play tennis, or [speaker001:] Yeah [speaker002:] racquetball, [speaker001:] you don't want to go out and get beat to death, but. [speaker002:] Right, and, and people don't want to play with somebody that they are going to beat every time, you know [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] and, and, uh, [speaker001:] And then, you know, we've got some guys here that they are, you know, four and five handicappers [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and they don't like to play with me because I'm too slow for them, so. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] You know, but get somebody around your own handicap, and you can just mosey on out for three or four hours and have a good time. [speaker002:] That's right, yeah. [speaker001:] And I've, you know, I've never, never yet have I walked up, now I've walked up a few times on the golf course by myself with nobody else to play with, and never yet have I met anybody on the golf course that wouldn't allow me to join their twosome or threesome. [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] They are always friendly. [speaker002:] That's true. [speaker001:] Sure, come on out, you know, and they don't mind if you make a mistake, they don't mind saying, Well, you know, let me tea-, tell you how to do that or teach you how to do that, or, [speaker002:] Well. [speaker001:] You know, it's, it's pretty nice and friendly out there [speaker002:] That, that's, that's so. [speaker001:] and you can't find that in all sports. [speaker002:] Yeah, that's absolutely right, and you can gain a lot of ground doing that, too, if you, if, you know, you gets, you get in a rut if you do play a lot but you play with the same people, you, you aren't going to learn anything. [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] After a short period, once you learn everything they've got to offer, then [speaker001:] Yeah, you need to, [speaker002:] you've basically tapped your resources there. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, I'd like to, uh, eventually I'd like to work up, if, if my wife does get interested, and maybe get involved in a league in a, in a mixed, mixed doubles league, or something like that. [speaker001:] Oh yeah, we, we have one down here in the summertime. Uh, it runs from like five o'clock to seven thirty [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or eight o'clock, you know, because it doesn't get dark until nine thirty or ten. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And we play in the summertime out here. We get a mixed league in, and that's what I'm trying to get her ready for. It's going to start, well, when we change time back whenever that is [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] next month, I guess, and it will start then, and, you know, we had a lot of girls out there a couple of years ago, and they were just starting to learn, and, you know, they were shooting a hundred, hundred and twenty [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] but they were, you know, now they're down into the hundreds [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] nineties, so, it won't take her long. [speaker002:] Well, that's good [speaker001:] You know, [speaker002:] that's good, that's sounds like a lot of fun. [speaker001:] And it's something we can do together, so. Well, she doesn't do much hunting, she could care less about that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] She's does a little fishing, but, you know, golf would give her the exercise, she'd be outside, give her something to do that we both enjoy, so. [speaker002:] Yeah, it, it sounds like we've got real similar situations. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I, I, I go home, uh, I've gone home every year now since I've moved to Dallas to, to go pheasant hunting, and, uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] um, the, the last time I, I took my wife along and, uh, k-, kind of the same situation. She's, she's up in the house and talked to my mother the whole time we were out hunting and stuff, but, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] She'll definitely, uh, she'll make the trip for fishing [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] if [LAUGHTER] that comes along, but, uh [speaker001:] All right. [speaker002:] it's, it's interesting, [speaker001:] Yeah, and it's, you know, it's a game that you don't, like bowling, you know, you feel bad if you bowl a hundred. But if you shoot a hundred in golf, you know, you don't have to be an expert to play, [speaker002:] That's right. [speaker001:] Any novice can pick up a club and learn how to hold one and learn how to do it and do it right. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, you know, you don't have to be an expert in any aspect of it at all. [speaker002:] That's right, well, yeah, I've, I've kind of formed the attitude that, you know, if I could just, if I could pick two or three shots out, uh, out of my game every time and put them together on one hole, then I do pretty good [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and then, and I keep, I keep rationalizing that well, you know, I can do it, I just got to do it all at th-, on the same hole, and, and then it will get better, and you just keep going, and in the meantime, just enjoy what you're doing. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] It, it, it really works that way [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And when, you know when I first got back into it, I used to get mad because I knew I could do something and I didn't get it done. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, and I just, well, I need to slice this ball around here, I naturally slice anyway, now you know, the ball will go straight and I go [NOISE], [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I never broke a club or anything, but, you know [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I'd get upset about it sometimes, and now I guess, you know, being in my forties, I just kind of mellowed out a little bit. [speaker002:] Sure. [speaker001:] I don't get upset any more. So, and, [speaker002:] Sure. And well, that's great. [speaker001:] Well, I've enjoyed talking to you. [speaker002:] Well, you bet. [speaker001:] I guess I'll go back to work. [speaker002:] Okay, sounds like it. [speaker001:] All right. See you later. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] Bye-bye. [speaker002:] Bye.

[speaker001:] Clanking {dishes} [talking] {woman and children} [music]. [speaker002:] Well, as much as I'd, uh, I'd like to say that I'll be looking for a flashy convertible or, uh, or a four by four or something, I guess the next car I'll be looking for is a kind of a plain old four door [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] What kind of a car do you have now? [speaker002:] Oh, we've got a, uh, an older Delta Eighty-Eight, and then, uh, our, our newer car is a, uh, a Corsica. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And we'll probably be looking for something about that, uh, that same style. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] That same kind of four door, hard top style. [speaker001:] You got kids? [speaker002:] Uh, no but we're planning for it. [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] So, uh, in fact, uh, our Oldsmobile is a, is a like an old Delta Eighty-Eight but it's in pretty good sh-, in really good shape. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And we've been really pleased with Oldsmobiles. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] So that's probably where the first place we'd look. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, [speaker001:] Well, we've always had, uh, Fords. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, mostly because my wife's stepfather works at a Ford dealership [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That'll do it. [speaker001:] Yeah. That'll do it. Um, but, yeah, we're, we're in the same shape. I think our next car will be a, you know, some big old four door, uh, something that can haul the kids to baseball practice [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and piano lessons, and we've got a minivan, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and that's great. And I d-, drive, uh, well I used to drive an Escort, but it died on me. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [Throat clearing] So I, I mean I, I, I used to run it, I, uh, where we used to live, I used to commute a hundred and forty miles a day. [speaker002:] Oh, geez. [speaker001:] And, uh, and this Escort took it all. And it, it, it got up to, uh, uh, I was at ninety-four thousand miles on it, and the engine just went. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So I, I, I bought a used, uh, Dodge Aries, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] which has been okay. [speaker002:] Really? [speaker001:] I, I mean I've haven't had it that long. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But it, it al-, it's an eighty-five Aries, but it only had thirty-four thousand miles on it when I bought it. [speaker002:] Oh, geez. [speaker001:] And I just, you know, I just drive it to work. So it's just a ten minute commute every day. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] So, uh, it [LAUGHTER] doesn't get much of, uh, I mean, it's not like I'm putting it through its paces. [speaker002:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] But I think, uh, and it's a four door which is nice, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but it's still a little cramped. I've got three kids, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] so I, I, [speaker002:] Sounds like you, you need at least like a Taurus size, [speaker001:] Yeah, that's what, [speaker002:] or something like that. [speaker001:] I was thinking of, was a Taurus. Uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. I, I know a lot of guys at work, they, uh, the ones that have, uh, families, uh, and they still want kind of a sports car. They've been, uh, a lot of them have been getting these Taurus S H O's. That I guess it's the sports version [speaker001:] Oh, really? [speaker002:] of the Taurus? [speaker001:] Yeah [Door]. [speaker002:] In fact, it comes with a standard stick and, uh, [speaker001:] Ooh. [speaker002:] and a lot of those. And it comes with a bigger engine and the things like that. But, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and usually they're in like black, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and gun metal grey and those kind of colors. You're not going to see too many, uh, you know, green ones or blue ones or anything like that. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] They, they put them in sporty colors I guess. But, uh, [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, my wife wants a Miyata. [speaker002:] Oh, well sure [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] That's what, you know, until, until you look at the price tag and then [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] you go, What? What would I, besides tooling around and looking really cool [speaker001:] Right, yeah. [speaker002:] and having a lot of fun, what would I really do with this car? [speaker001:] I know, I know. It's like I, I guess I could fit in it [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Yeah. I, [speaker001:] maybe [Static]. [speaker002:] I went, I went through that when I first got out of, uh, college. I had an old car that I bought just to get to, to my j-, my first job. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And when I got there, the first thing I did was trade it in on a Spitfire. [speaker001:] Oh. [speaker002:] And I, I knew that was going to be the only time I could afford a two seater, uh, sports car. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But that, that just does not make it as an only car. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It's, uh, it's like I, I would, I bought a set of stereo speakers [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and it was one of those cash and carry deals. I had to take them one at a time, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] with the top down. And it was winter, so I was in like this coat [speaker001:] Oh, no! [speaker002:] with the top down, and the speaker in the passenger seat. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] And I drove that one home, and then I went back and got the other one and put that in the, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] passenger seat and drove that one home. And, uh, funny, funniest sight. And da-, you kind of outgrow that real quick [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] when it's your only car. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I, you know, it's funny. Most people that I've talked to did stuff like that when they were in college, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or, you know, or when they were single anyway. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] They'd, they'd buy themselves a sporty car because it was their last. I never did that. Uh, you know, my first car was a Toyota Corolla. [speaker002:] Oh, really? [speaker001:] And, uh, because I got a good deal on it [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and, uh, that was a great little car. Actually I met, that's how I met girls was, I'd find out if a girl could drive a manual transmission, which I, I had never, I, I'd learned on an automatic transmission. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And so, so I'd go out on dates where they would teach me how to drive this car. [speaker002:] Boy, that's a good deal. [speaker001:] And, uh, in fact I married one of those people [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Ah, okay. Well, I'll have to remember that if I ever get in [speaker001:] And it worked. [speaker002:] that situation again [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, it worked all right, real good. [speaker002:] Huh. Because I, I know we've, uh, that's, that's something that, that we definitely have to go with is an automatic transmission. My, uh, my wife just does-, can't, can't, uh, she really doesn't want to learn I guess, [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] the, uh, the standard shift. I fact, I, I remember once we, uh, we, uh, went, uh, went on a, uh, test drive. We got one of these things from Lee Iacocca that said, you know, I'll give you a fifty dollar savings bond if you'll [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] test drive a car. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And we went, uh, [children] we went, uh, we went to a dealership and, uh, it, it was prev-, she, she did pretty well. But it was one of those things where we just went to a big parking lot [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] and the, uh, dealer kind of gave her standard shift parking, because that was all it was. It was, it was the funniest thing, it was like, uh, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] a big Le Baron, it was a Le Baron with everything on it, [speaker001:] Wow! [speaker002:] but it had a standard shift. It was the [speaker001:] That's weird! [speaker002:] craziest thing I ever saw. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, and, and that's probably why they were trying to sell them, I guess. [speaker001:] Huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, we just kind of went back and forth and back and forth. She did pretty well after a while. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] But, uh, it's just kind of hard to learn, I guess. [speaker001:] Well, my wife, I mean, she'd always driven standard transmission. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, and, [speaker002:] [Breathing]. [speaker001:] in fact all our earlier cars were a standard transmission. In fact, the minivan's a, has a stick shift. [speaker002:] Um, okay. [speaker001:] And in, this Dodge Aries is the first car we've ever gotten that had anything. You know, it's got automatic transmission, cruise control, [speaker002:] Oh, geez. [speaker001:] you know, electric locks. You know, it's like, it's like a luxury car except that it's the Dodge Aries [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Yeah, [speaker001:] you know. [speaker002:] yeah. [speaker001:] So, uh, [speaker002:] Oh, well. Well, I guess that's, I guess that's about all I've got to say, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] about cars [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Well, you, um, the, the thing about this, uh, th-, I will say this about the minivan. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] We thought that was a luxury car when we bought it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, I would think so, yeah, [speaker001:] It, it, [speaker002:] because it's so big. [speaker001:] Yeah. And, and it was quiet, it had a stereo system. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. [speaker001:] We never had it, you know, we always had the A M radio. [speaker002:] Sure, sure. [speaker001:] And, uh, of course this has, this that had s-, speakers that you can control from the back seat. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And you can change the channels on the, on the radio from the back seat too [Door]. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And put s-, speaker phones in it. So. [speaker002:] Now, now, now that used to be a luxury, but I bet on the next time you buy a car, that's going to be mandatory. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] You've got to have that now. [speaker001:] That's right. That's right. [speaker002:] You're used to it and you got to have it. [speaker001:] And you've got to pay for it too. [speaker002:] Yeah. That's true [LAUGHTER] too. [speaker001:] And I bet, and I bet it costs twice as much as, as when [speaker002:] It, [speaker001:] I bought mine [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] It probably does, it probably does. But, uh, [speaker001:] We, [speaker002:] Oh, well. Well, Bill it's been nice talking to you. [speaker001:] Nice talking to you. [speaker002:] Okay, you have a good evening. [speaker001:] Thanks a lot. [speaker002:] Um. Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye-bye Clanking talking [music].

[speaker001:] Okay, so, uh, do you own a P C? [speaker002:] Um, no, not personally but, [speaker001:] But you have one at work. [speaker002:] Yes, uh-huh, Yeah, several [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Okay, and, now because, um, see I'm, I'm doing my, uh, Master's in Computer Science and Computer Engineering. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, um, and I, I don't have one, but I have to use them, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] like during, especially during my undergrad. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You, you use, um, like your first couple of years you use personal computers because, uh, you know, the software. You know, like it's easier for you to go to and run a program, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, through the disk, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] because, um, the grader can do it at home. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Then, as the, you know, as you go up higher, like in your senior level, you're doing projects which are, are so big, and you have to have so many people sharing the same data, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that you can't use personal computers, so you have to use, you know, a main frame. [speaker002:] Right, right. Yeah, I know I, uh, I do have a, uh, you know, a computer at home, but it's one that the company has loaned me. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] And, that, that's been my situation, is that, uh, that way I can get in, access our, uh, computers that I have up here and, you know, do work from home. [speaker001:] But does it have, uh, like, a disk drive? [speaker002:] Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, [speaker001:] Oh, okay, because, uh, the ones that we use, yo-, you know, are like UNIX base systems. [speaker002:] Right. Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, so they don't have a disk drive. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] You know, so you can't, the only way that you can do it is through a modem. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, you, you know, you just do it that way. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, that's, uh, that's the only way that you can get to, through to the system, you can't store it anywhere. [speaker002:] Right. Yeah, no I, um, I, I have both, because that, that's what I use all the time is UNIX Systems. Um, versus the DOS. But then I teach DOS classes, uh, at night. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, part time. So, [speaker001:] And then you also have to do all your grading on the P C. [speaker002:] Well, that, that's the really neat thing, I teach in the continuing education classes, so I don't, uh, I don't have to have grad-, any grades, no grade books, so that's great [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] But, no, I find that I use the, the personal computer a lot though for my WordPerfect, [speaker001:] Okay. [speaker002:] and also for my spread sheets. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] Um, so I think it's extremely helpful and very useful. [speaker001:] Well, uh, for us it's, uh, uh, you know, it's like for doing like, you know, like resumes, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, presentations. [speaker002:] Um, um. Uh-huh. [speaker001:] We use like for example, a Mackintosh, which is a lot easier for graphics, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] than the P-, than you know, the I B M P C's or anything compatible with that. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Due, due to the fact that, well, you know, I, I haven't tested the, the P S two yet. [speaker002:] Um, um. Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but I don't know if the software is as easily, you know, like you can manage it a lot easier than, than the old one. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] The old one you had to go pick a line, use little arrows to go onto the screen and check where you wanted to start, and where, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you know, with the mouse you do it, you know, like, a hundred times faster. [speaker002:] That's true. That's true. [speaker001:] And, uh, you also get, you know, when you see it on the Mackintosh with, you know, the one I have, that doesn't have any color, you can look at it and that's the way it's going to print out. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, especially if you have a laser printer, it's going to print out the same way as it's on the screen. [speaker002:] Oh, Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, so, with, you know, with the I B M what would happen is, uh, since the software that I had was, it was basically, you know, you only see part of the page. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, so, the whole page you, you never can actually see it, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] you just draw it and they have to zoom out and zoom in and, you know, it's like, every time that you have to do something is, it's really a pain. [speaker002:] What a hassle, yeah, yeah. [speaker001:] And, also, you know, it's like for, for presentations, it's like if you have to do any statistical data it can be easily represented on a, on a P C. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it can be easily represented on a, on a P C. You know, like years back when you didn't have that you would have to map out all this, all these numbers. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and get a graph which you weren't sure if it was okay or not, you know. [speaker002:] Right. Yeah. [speaker001:] But, with a, with a new system I can calculate everything so fast, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] you know, like for spread sheets. [speaker002:] Right. Right. [speaker001:] You can see what the trend is over the years. [speaker002:] Yeah. And, I love all the windows that they have out now too, [speaker001:] Yeah, that, [speaker002:] they have really simplified things. [speaker001:] that I, I had a, I had a program due and uh, one, one window I had the program and the other one I had the program running. [speaker002:] Right. Right. [speaker001:] so if there was ever a mistake, I could easily check, you know, I could look at the program and say, this is where I made the error. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Instead of saying, where did I make the error? [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, go back and forth and, and, you know, you always, you know, the old ones you had to go out of your program, load up, um, uh, well load up the program again, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in this case. After you load it up change it, hope that's right, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] get out of that, run the program, [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] run, uh-huh, as long as it took, [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] and then go back and see if that worked or not. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But with windows you can have the program and say it messed up in line fifty-four. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] So, you take a look at line fifty-four, you take a look at the output at the same time, and you can see that, where it messed up, because, you know it's like in the old computers, the ones that, uh, we're using here a couple of years ago, you would always have to have a printout, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] every time that you ran your program, *end of slash unit? [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] you would need a printout because everything else was erased in the background. *should have been new slash unit [speaker002:] Yeah, right, right. Yeah, I know, I, uh, I remember my college days [LAUGHTER]. And having to do that too. [speaker001:] Di-, did, did you learn it in computer science? [speaker002:] Oh, yeah, uh-huh. I sure did. [speaker001:] And, when was this. [speaker002:] Uh, I graduated in eighty-six. [speaker001:] Oh, okay. [speaker002:] Yeah. So it's been fairly recent. [speaker001:] Yeah, I know because, uh, all I know is that when I came here in eighty-seven, they still had, uh, [speaker002:] The cards. [speaker001:] it was the last year to, to put all your punch cards in. [speaker002:] Oh, oh dear. I didn't have to bother with that at all, thank goodness. Yeah. [speaker001:] So, yeah. No, but it, it was just sensational because I walked in and they go, Oh, my God, they're still using this. [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] It was like, this is the last year you can put your punch cards in and get your program out and, you know [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] Wow, wow. [speaker001:] You can get a hard copy of it, and that's about it. [speaker002:] Uh-huh, wow. [speaker001:] So. But, I mean, the price of computers has gone down. They said that, um, if the auto industry would have kept the same trend as the computer industry has ever since, you know, it started, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] they said that, uh, cars would cost two dollars and they would run forever. [speaker002:] Oh, that would be great. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] So, I mean it's like, you know, the, the joke with the Yugo, you know, it's like, yeah, yo-, you know, like when your, uh, car runs out of gas just throw it away. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, that, that's the way it would be. [speaker002:] Wow. [speaker001:] It's like yeah, I think I'll buy a new car today, you know, so, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah, but I mean the price has really gone down. I mean, I B M which, uh, an I B M P C in like in nineteen eighty-one it would cost you five thousand dollars, [speaker002:] Oh, sure, oh, sure. [speaker001:] and now you can get it, you know, like for, one thousand dollars, because, you know, because of the parts basically. [speaker002:] Right. Yeah, and the two eighty-six too, so, yeah. [speaker001:] Yeah. The parts and the labor is what they're charging you, they're not charging you, you know, over pricing, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it because it's like, if we sell it for less, you know, it's like we're losing money, you know. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] It's like we want to sell it to break even at least. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, I think they stopped producing the I B M P C. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] And, uh, and the, uh, P C Junior was a total failure, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] to them. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] They had, uh, they're trying to get out small computers, but, the only problem was that when they took that one out, the small computer was the I B M P C [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] And, so, you couldn't, you know, it's like, sure bring out. N-, into the market something that's smaller when no-, nobody uses anything that's smaller than, you know, this, you know. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] And, so. [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] But, over the past years it's like I B M has been producing like every two years they bring out a whole new system. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] You know, like the P C X T, A T, and the P S one, P S two things, you know, and so. It's just that you have to always compete and, uh, Mackintosh took a lot of the market from a lot of schools. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Because of, of their, you know, you can work with it a lot easier. [speaker002:] Yeah. That's true. [speaker001:] So, that's what they're trying to do. Oh, well, [speaker002:] Well. [speaker001:] I'll leave you back to your work. [speaker002:] Okay. [speaker001:] And, uh, have a good lunch. [speaker002:] Thanks. Bye. [speaker001:] All right, bye, bye.

[speaker001:] Well, how do you feel about trial by jury? [speaker002:] I feel very uncomfortable with trials by juries recently. Uh, [speaker001:] In what way? [speaker002:] In that it seems to me that they are swayed more by emotion than, uh, by evidence that's presented. I have, uh, very little regard for the law [LAUGHTER], [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] presently practiced. [speaker001:] Oh, do, do you feel they are swayed more toward, are you talking about with criminal or civil suits? [speaker002:] I was thinking primarily criminal cases. [speaker001:] So, do you think that, I mean the the stereotypical bleeding heart juries [speaker002:] Yes. [speaker001:] where they feel sorry. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. That's a concern of mine. Uh, I would feel more comfortable in many cases I think with judges. Uh, you know, doing the sentencing. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [very faint] The other thing, the only thing that really bothers me about that is I think you know, that a judge can be [NOISE] I, I like the idea of juries of your peers [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] uh, in that you, you, you get more personally more than one person making the, making a decision. And second of all, you get a wide variety of background so that, [speaker002:] Yeah, my question I guess are they really your peers? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. I'd [speaker002:] Uh [very faint], [speaker001:] agree with that. That's definitely a problem. [speaker002:] Uh, too often I think they are not [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and, uh, when you, when you are selecting a jury and you are doing it partially if, if not entirely on the basis of which color representation you have [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know that is a matter of concern to me too. Uh, I think that, uh, in such cases, uh, they are not really looking for unbiased people, but rather for biased. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, now I happen to know several judges and there is one that I would feel uncomfortable but has me-, doing sentencing without the jury [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] I would feel a little bit uneasy about [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but the other two I feel, uh, would give either you know, the plaintiff or for the defendant the the full benefit of the law. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I guess that's what I am concerned with. [speaker001:] Yeah, yeah. I, guess I, I definitely agree with you, but sin-, the well, what I don't like about, uh, sentence, the jury doing the sentencing [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in that I think it becomes a lot less, the, the same crime gets unequal sentences. [speaker002:] This is very true. [speaker001:] I, uh, I think there is more of an ability of you know, you know for selecting a jury, two different juries that would most of the time come up with the same idea, uh, the same idea versus you know whether he is guilty [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] or innocent [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] but, I think, I think there would be a large variation in, in trying to gage the the severity of the crime and an appropriate punishment and have that that measure stick across the board. [speaker002:] Yeah and you do see such uneven sentencing [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, evidence of it in the newspapers and such, I mean [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] where, uh, it would appear the crimes were very similar but one individual got twenty-five years and the other one was sentenced to life. So, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, [speaker001:] Of course a lot of that's also the ability of, of the defendant to, uh, get a good lawyer. [speaker002:] Isn't that the truth [LAUGHTER]? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] There are times when is it, uh, {F oh goodness, my mind has gone blank } it's, uh, Othello. You know where he says kill all the lawyers [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Every now and then one is tempted to see what, what. [speaker001:] Yeah, I agree [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER] But, I, it's taken me a long time to understand that, uh, lawyers are concerned with the law and not with justice [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] as we think of, you know, as, as [speaker001:] Uh-huh [NOISE]. [speaker002:] novices tend to think that, uh, attorneys care about justice. [speaker001:] Oh, yeah, I, I agree with it yeah. They will admit to you that they can-, don't have the benefit of being able to you know, of, of, letting, allowing themselves to believe their clients that are guilty [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] it's more of the game plan of how do they convince the judge or jury through argument. [speaker002:] And [speaker001:] That the [very faint], [speaker002:] they are very effective too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, even, I have been involved, uh, just sli-, slightly in a case where I know the person is guilty [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but, uh, his attorneys gotten him off. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, the city has dropped their charges against him because their, the attorney has presented enough evidence of doubt to convince the judge. So I don't know [LAUGHTER] [NOISE]. [speaker001:] Yeah. Uh, this is a little bit of the subject, but one, one thing that I really dislike, uh, also that's, that's new is the, uh, is that I have heard that there are federal sentences,

[speaker001:] um so do you have a personal computer [speaker002:] uh well we do have one in in our home uh it's on the fritz right now because the monitor isn't working properly but uh it has been uh used tremendously mostly by my children for uh playing games [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] however um you know the bane of our existence these days uh but it does have a word processing program which all of us have used for reports reports and papers and that sort of thing [speaker001:] yeah that's what when this subject was mentioned to us I said well I went gee that's all I use mine for is a word processor and I haven't used it since I got out of college and that was six years ago [speaker002:] oh wow [speaker001:] but it it was my sister's who my sister bought it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh my father had a small business and she thought that he would incorporate it and use it in the business and he never did he always did everything out by hand he only had three employees so [speaker002:] oh oh yeah [speaker001:] you know it wasn't really worth it to him to do to do it [speaker002:] yeah actually it would be worth it if he were able to get a program that would do something that he normally had to do by hand [speaker001:] yeah like pay the payroll and yeah basically payroll [speaker002:] exactly and there are lots of them on the market [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but you do have to research that find out what works for your system what kind do you have [speaker001:] um it's an IBM I think it's a Professional Three Hundred no that's that's the digital one it's an uh IBM PC Junior I think [speaker002:] oh well that's a nice computer [speaker001:] yeah she she uh she uses it now uh my sister to actually she moved and my father wasn't using it she took it with he [speaker002:] uh-huh so she took it with her yeah don't blame her [speaker001:] because she needed it to do she just finished up her Bachelor's degree so I don't know if she's going to even use it anymore it it's [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah oh well well encourage her to try other things because um I am uh I work in a school system and I teach writing and we use the computers a great deal for word processing uh you know because students really do seem to be freer when they write on the computer as you probably found out yourself [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but um I also am sponsoring a literary magazine and we're doing our entire layout on the computer uh because of the graphics program and a page maker program that we have a publishing program [speaker001:] oh yeah that's that's neat that's a very good use [speaker002:] so it is wonderful once you get into some of the programs that are out now you can do so much with them [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] that you don't do until you really make yourself use them [speaker001:] well I know there there's got to be a lot of uses but it's just you you have to have a need [speaker002:] you have to make yourself do it yeah [speaker001:] yeah but you have to have a need I really have no need for it at all um I work for Digital Equipment and we have a powerful computer down at work [speaker002:] yeah uh-huh oh so you don't need a personal one [speaker001:] no and I I still really don't do that much as you say play games on it [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah [speaker001:] they're great for playing games my brother [speaker002:] right well my son is uh studying electronic technology and he's been able to do things on uh on the personal computer here that really have enhanced his um reports and his learning and all because he can lay things out that way [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] um and I guess it if you're doing that sort of thing it's really useful but um unless it is I guess it's kind of a waste [speaker001:] I know some people who just they just went through a course uh and took the electronic grafting course [speaker002:] oh that's fascinating uh-huh [speaker001:] drafting not grafting but drafting course the CAD [speaker002:] yeah I knew what you meant yeah [speaker001:] yeah and that's really neat I mean yeah you can do graphs graphs on it too but this is you know this is one step above it but it's actual um drafting and I always [speaker002:] yeah yes you can do wonderful design it it's really well especially when anyone who's ever done any kind of drafting or engineering uh drawing drawing um you have to be so precise [speaker001:] yeah and the computer does it all for you [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so it was really neat I wanted to go to that course but my boss wouldn't pay for it I'm like I'll get a job some day and my boss will pay for it I'll be needed [speaker002:] oh well yeah [speaker001:] because um I I I didn't want to go do it myself because I didn't think I was really going to use it [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] I got this cough I've got a cold because it was eighty degrees up here and I went outside with no coat on [speaker002:] oh boy what a change huh [speaker001:] yeah it was bad yes it was a big change [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you couldn't really wear a coat because it was so hot and then again I picked up a cold [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but I'm doing all right getting over it [speaker002:] well that's good [speaker001:] so I don't I don't even know how much um personal computers cost nowadays [speaker002:] well they vary tremendously um because you can get because you're they're uh the ones that were made a few years ago uh have come down in price significantly um you can get them I've seen them for five and six hundred dollars but they're much less um have much less memory and capable of much less [speaker001:] yeah they can't do your um your drafting and your graphs and all of that [speaker002:] no you can't do very much on them right right um well it's just that you have to have uh you have to be able to get your program in and and many many of the programs are so big uh they take up so much space that you don't have any place then to work you don't have any bytes left but um if you um [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] if if you want to go into one that's really useful you're going to have to go over a thousand dollars and even for a personal computer it's probably smart to spend that much and and we've ours is not quite that powerful and so you know we are we are limited which may be one reason why [speaker001:] you do run into you do run into limitations on yours oh wow [speaker002:] oh yeah uh-huh some things we can't do but but then we haven't needed to either you know um but we've been able to do what we can [speaker001:] yeah wow that's neat that you even you even reach the limits of yours I haven't even begun to reach the limits of it I've [speaker002:] no but I mine is not as good as a PC uh [speaker001:] yeah junior yeah [speaker002:] uh Junior yeah yeah ours is a Commodore 128 [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and it it's not quite as um as useful not quite as powerful [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] so [speaker001:] they say that Commodore has made a good um PC for the price though [speaker002:] they did yeah that's very true that's very true they did [speaker001:] very competitive I don't even I don't even know much money my sister spent on hers but I I just thought I it's it's going to be a waste she's not going to do it not going to use it [speaker002:] sounds like he that you were right [speaker001:] oh well yeah well she likes it she gets to write her reports but like I say she could have bought a much cheaper model and done what she wan ted [speaker002:] yeah and she could have bought a typewriter also [speaker001:] yeah a typewriter with memory would would have been fine it's all she ever uses it for [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] um I think it might have a spelling editor on it I'm not sure um [speaker002:] yeah it yeah it probably if she if it doesn't she could easily put it on [speaker001:] yeah yeah that's one of the one great thing about it [speaker002:] yeah right right which program did you use did you use Word Perfect [speaker001:] um no I I really don't it's it was six years ago she pretty much set it up she goes here this is you make your file and then you can uh edit it right [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] um I used the one the one at work a lot um matter of fact anything I've had to write from now on I had to God forbid write a couple of resumes and I was just great and all you have to do is just put it in a uh the spelling check mode and I don't even have to look my my words up anymore [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah they're great you're right well I guess we've spent our time I need to go help my daughter do something so [speaker001:] oh okay good [speaker002:] this has been fun talking to you [speaker001:] okay yeah well bye [speaker002:] good luck uh bye-bye

[speaker001:] do you have some kids getting ready for college [speaker002:] well I have uh uh basically have grown children I've got one that's that is a part-time college student and one that's college age but not attending so uh he did it [speaker001:] you've sort of faced up to the problem then [speaker002:] yeah he he did uh attend a little bit you know they took some classes and then decided it college was not what he wanted to do so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] he went along the the older one the daughter who is older is going part-time and working full time [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh she's attending a community college right now and she would like to go on to a you know to a four year school go ahead and get a degree [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] and uh that's you know one of her immediate long range objectives [speaker001:] well I've got a bunch of little ones that are still growing up [speaker002:] yeah uh [speaker001:] so I'm sort of facing putting them through college about the time I'm also looking to retire [speaker002:] oh yeah so you [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] uh [speaker001:] I think my initial thoughts are going to have to sort of grade my advice according to uh you know how much motivation and drive and uh and ability they have when they start facing the college years [speaker002:] right uh I I guess uh one thing from from my own personal experience uh the drive is the important or is I I consider to be the important part of going to college um I I was not an exceptional student by any means in high school I was not a bad student but was not an exceptional student and you know didn't really have uh any strong ambitions that required college but I did want to go to school did want to get the you know go ahead and get the college [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and so I worked my way through college and uh you know I think that it was because I really wanted the degree that I you know followed through and went ahead and and went on even finished up going to college after I got married [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I like you said I think that uh the ambition and the drive is uh is pretty much key a key there [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh like I said we've got the one that's not going to college he he just does not have the desire to go at this time are I hope that some day for my benefit I hope that some day he decides he wants to go because it will you know make me feel better but uh whatever makes him feel best is what's important I suppose [speaker001:] yeah well I think my reaction from my experience is that uh I picked a school that was too good [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh so I had a fairly tough time getting through and they presented me with a lot of material which I just wasn't able to absorb and handle [speaker002:] yeah and I I think that that's [speaker001:] and uh so I think my first advice would be to go to a community college and to a a smaller school for your undergraduate studies maybe a state supported school and then if you have the necessary drive and still need the the intellectual mileage to pick a top of the line school for graduate study [speaker002:] uh-huh I think that's a good idea uh and and too I guess uh looking at at what the the individuals interests are instead of just what uh what the popular degree plans are uh [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] I uh started out in in high school expecting to go into engineering and when I got into the mathematics and science classes I was not a bad student in those in those areas but didn't really have the interest in it so I changed my my career design over into the accounting and business field and uh I am a CPA [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I you know I'm pretty good at that but I it's not it was not something that I really thought long and hard and had a real you know a real strong drive toward um I'm not sure what uh what I would have done differently or what I would do differently now but uh I might you know I might go in a different direction if I were to start fresh uh you know think more about what my real interest were instead of what my you know instead of what was available or what sounded like a good money maker uh it's not always the important thing [speaker001:] you know I think one it's very important to chose a career that uh to do something you enjoy doing [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] because I figure that's part of my compensation is is being able to do something I can take an interest in [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh I think one of the reactions I had uh was that I underestimated the amount of math that was needed for an engineering degree [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] uh you know my interest uh in high school was you know grabbing up a bunch of vacuum tubes and and building something that worked [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh you know it was a matter of using cookbook designs and so forth and building up amplifiers or oscillators or making transmitters or receivers and uh you know I didn't face up to the fact that there's a you know an enormous mathematical basis for all of this [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] until I actually got to college and so it was a bit of a slap in the face and an uphill struggle although I didn't have that much trouble with math uh in high school [speaker002:] noise yeah um an I guess another another area that uh in retrospect I would give parents a real strong advice on is the the study habits and preparation that students need [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and and they need to start as early as they can you know not wait until they're a freshman in high school even to start developing good study habits and get the you know get the good basics uh you know the math and the the English and a little science and stuff like that that that uh so they really have a good background for whatever course load they're going to take [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] because uh I know in in my son's case his math background is is not very strong and we tried a lot you know to to help him but I think that the uh I think the educational system [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh the way things are are run in this area anyway it it's a little weak and you know as a result he doesn't he doesn't have the math background that he would need in college [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh I think that's one reason that he's not interested he doesn't think he would do well [speaker001:] well I was fairly lucky in uh going to a small town school uh I got a lot of individual attention from the the faculty that was there [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] they probably weren't the most brilliant people in the world but they uh were very personable and took uh a interest in people who were willing to study [speaker002:] yeah uh I agree I think that makes a difference uh [speaker001:] and so I [speaker002:] I went to a small town school also my son went to a school that had like twenty five hundred students in it or something you know [speaker001:] we have yeah yeah you get lost there [speaker002:] and uh it's it's really well it really makes a difference as to [speaker001:] there were thirty six students in my graduating class [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh but they you know we had a math instructor there and when I asked him questions about calculus and so forth he was incapable of handling it you know algebra was fine but you know if you asked him about differential equations or or something like that he didn't know what you were talking about [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] uh and when I went to take solid geometry I had to uh commute to a a larger town to Allentown Pennsylvania to take uh solid geometry an d the instructor there was was sharp enough to know or to realize that I was good at mathematical concepts but I had one lingering flaw left over from grade school and that was that I hadn't learned to add subtract multiply and divide correctly [speaker002:] yeah and that that does make a difference that's what like I was saying you know you get those basics behind you to start with you know get a good foundation in uh those core type courses [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and it it will carry you a long way if you know the the concepts and the the logic and just understanding what the what's expected of you [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] really makes a lot of difference in you know what you're capable of doing so [speaker001:] yes all right well it's been nice talking to you [speaker002:] yeah it's been nice I hope they got what they wanted on it [speaker001:] well at least you have some some words they can parse there [speaker002:] right okay [speaker001:] take care [speaker002:] I'll talk to you later maybe thanks [speaker001:] bye

[speaker002:] so what sort of car are you interested in getting next [speaker001:] well actually I love the car I have I have a Chrysler LeBaron convertible [speaker002:] ah [speaker001:] and I love it and I would get another one in a minute unless I could afford what I really like which would be a red Ferrari or you know a little Corvette or something like that and that's what would influence my decision to change because I like a really sporty car and I'd love an expensive one but I probably can never afford it so [speaker002:] uh well I understand and can sympathize with that because I also enjoy driving performance automobiles um I currently have an eighty seven five liter Mustang GT that I've done a bunch of modifications to to make it uh handle and perform better [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I suspect if I were to be able to get another car where object was um the best car I could get regardless of money uh I probably would be tempted by something along the lines of a Lotus or possibly a Ferrari [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah well I'm a nurse here and we have a doctor at this hospital that has a beautiful new red Ferrari [speaker002:] a a three twenty eight GTS [speaker001:] and I couldn't tell you but it's just beautiful and I go out and I love to touch it but I can't even do that because of the of the alarm so I just look at it a lot [speaker002:] you just go hunting go out and lust after it [speaker001:] really exactly but it sure is a pretty thing [speaker002:] so have you had the opportunity to drive a Ferrari [speaker001:] no I'm working on it no I really haven't no huh-uh [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] I did test drive a Corvette last year maybe the year before it was brand new white it was like a big marshmallow when you sat in the seats they adjusted to fit around you [speaker002:] ah [speaker001:] I mean they came in and up and out and I mean they did whatever and and we went for a test drive in that and I was able to open that up pretty good and that was really fun and I wanted it but I had a choice of that or my house [speaker002:] yeah there there's something about having a place to live I don't know [speaker001:] and I felt that I should continue to live in my house so yeah you know it's just necessary and I did I thought well a tent wouldn't be bad but probably not practical [speaker002:] could sleep in the back of the Vette [speaker001:] yeah right so [speaker002:] I find that uh that the Corvettes are are becoming really really nice cars [speaker001:] they are they're pretty aren't they lately they really are [speaker002:] yeah and they've they've improved the performance and the suspension such that they're actually a lot of fun to drive [speaker001:] really [speaker002:] it's not like driving a a Winnebago or something [speaker001:] oh no no no see I'm not into station wagons and vans and things that people are really buying now and they go isn't that a nice van and I go hm not really you know how about a Greyhound bus [speaker002:] uh nice yeah nice isn't the word I'd choose maybe practical isn't that a practical van [speaker001:] yeah I mean that you know there's some that are prettier than others and yeah the new type is prettier than what their they used to look like but I sure don't think it's attractive you know it's not like like driving a little sports car [speaker002:] yeah it's it's very hard to find something practical that's also attractive [speaker001:] yeah I don't think that happens so but I I love mine so and I I bought it because I drove a friend's in Hawaii and I just went home and I walked in and I picked it out and he said take it home and bring it back if you want to and I never did I just went back and signed the papers and I knew nothing about my car when I got it nothing I didn't know how anything worked [speaker002:] oh so it was a completely new experience for you and I'm sure you enjoyed every minute of it [speaker001:] yeah and I've had it it's almost three years actually and I've I still love it I put the top down everywhere I go I timed it when I first got it and it took twenty minutes I mean twenty seconds and so I figured there was nowhere I was to late to go that I didn't have twenty more seconds [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] and you and you couldn't get how long does it take to go back up about the same time [speaker001:] twenty seconds yeah that's all it takes I mean it's just a button that's it you you release it right at the top so you don't have to get out or anything [speaker002:] yeah so so you won't get yeah and twenty seconds you probably won't get caught in anything too substantial [speaker001:] well I did actually last week going to the airport I just hit a downpour and I was on a highway going like eighty so I really did I mean I was soaking wet I thought I would drown in the seconds that it took me to pull over [speaker002:] whoops [speaker001:] but it all dried out you know didn't take long when the sun came out but it was kind of funny I'm sure people around me really enjoyed it so [speaker002:] yeah oh no I was just down in Austin last week and the weather was pretty nice too so [speaker001:] oh and wasn't it pretty last week with the bluebonnets and everything yeah yeah [speaker002:] with the bluebonnets out yeah it really was yeah I decided that Austin is certainly someplace that I could handle living [speaker001:] yeah a lot of people say that and it's pretty far from where I live it's about hm two or three hours maybe two hundred

[speaker001:] are you in the middle of anything [speaker002:] uh no I'm not in the middle of anything I've just about the last thing I did about maybe oh close to a year ago now I guess I'd I helped my dad add on another bedroom on to his house so I guess that was yeah that was that was fairly large undertaking a a it's it's a bedroom and a walk-in closet and a bathroom all on one side of the house [speaker001:] the whole thing did the framing and all [speaker002:] oh we did it all except for the sheetrocking that was the only thing we didn't you know putting the ceiling up and things like that we don't we we weren't sure how to do that [speaker001:] huh maybe you and I should get together because when I had my last big project I had the contractor do the framing and I did all the sheetrocking and the interior work [speaker002:] yeah that's the exact opposite we did all put the roof up and did all the roofing and the put all the interior walls up we just didn't do any of the Sheetrock wall work and that's it because you have you know get those joints to go together and and whatever you have to put in there to get the Sheetrock to take the gaps out between the sheets and on the ceiling and all that I didn't we didn't know a thing about any of that and so [speaker001:] yeah my wife wishes I hadn't done that [speaker002:] it's it looked very hard to do so we figured well just I don't think we could do it and make it look professional so we left it left it to somebody who does it for a living but [speaker001:] I think it takes about three or four times before it gets easy [speaker002:] probably so and I'd we'd never done it so we just left it alone but that's I guess so I'm only twenty one so [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I my my vast experience of of home home owner's knowledge is not very much so it's just what I have to do more or less around the house you know for my parents so [speaker001:] did you you framed it in frame uh on on you framed in new square footage or was it stuff that was already uh enclosed brand new so you [speaker002:] it was brand new we started with the the backyard and turned it into part of the house so it was [speaker001:] and you knew how you knew how to do the framing [speaker002:] um well my dad knew how to do most of it you know he [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] he had we'd gotten a couple of books and then he just started doing it I don't know he well he did all the flooring himself he put the whole the whole floor in and then I just started with the walls and the roof and started there and then we were put us like a not not necessarily a garage but just like a off the side of that after we had the house part made we just decided we'd carry the roof out a little bit farther and put a carport more or less it's not you know it's not enclosed it's just somewhere to drive another car to to park and it's [speaker001:] do do you build on slabs down there or did you build it up off the ground [speaker002:] uh it's off the ground [speaker001:] on the piers [speaker002:] uh-huh it's on about uh twenty two inch piers something like that [speaker001:] did you had those poured or you did them yourself [speaker002:] so uh no those are those are we did those ourselves [speaker001:] you just put forms in the ground and fill them with concrete [speaker002:] so yeah exactly so it's [speaker001:] huh well the last thing I did completely myself was an outside deck which I was pretty proud of [speaker002:] yeah those are those are we'd done I've done one I helped somebody do one of those before those are those are you know you can buy them in kits but we didn't do that way but it's yeah [speaker001:] no I designed it from scratch and did a pretty did a pretty good job those are nice though they're pretty forgiving you know you can always tear stuff out and redo it it's a [speaker002:] yeah yeah that is not near like building a house or anything but yeah those are nice especially when you get done you got something [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] you know I don't know I like them you just sit out on the on the deck and do whatever have a barbecue or [speaker001:] yeah I've I built it two levels and with a big toy box and some benches and uh a backrest and all that stuff I'm [speaker002:] yeah that sounds nice all done by yourself huh designed [speaker001:] yeah we had a friend with a tractor who dug the pier holes so we could pour concrete and support it with a a nice firm four by four posts and uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and then the rest of it I just did a a contractor friend helped me uh with some of the um foundation work but uh it's pretty so it was about four or five hundred square feet the same size as the addition that I just put on so [speaker002:] yeah that's a pretty that's a good size deck [speaker001:] yeah it's uh not that expensive I think it will cost me three dollars a square foot and uh you know it no less than that cost cost me about five hundred dollars six hundred dollars all together [speaker002:] so yeah that's yeah that's right yeah that's good that's not bad at all you didn't have to [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] the the wood man it's it got surprising as to the fact that how much wood is you know to get to get good lumber it costs I don't know about Dallas but around even in this little town it's it's not cheap at all I was surprised [speaker001:] yeah I'd be surprised if it wasn't uh cheaper where you are well yeah it probably comes from where you are [speaker002:] it's probably more there yeah that that it probably does I I don't not sure but [speaker001:] most when I drive through that area that's all I see is [speaker002:] yeah it's nothing but woods up here down here [speaker001:] pressure treated pressure treated lumber yards yeah [speaker002:] yeah well I don't I haven't I mean I haven't I used to live in Dallas in Arlington actually and but that was just when I was a kid so I don't really know what the cost of living is even like in Dallas anymore but [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] it's I don't know we're a college town so that doesn't help us out any because we we have gas is a dollar twelve dollar twelve a gallon so that's probably about what you're paying so [speaker001:] right East Texas huh yeah my current project is a walkway which I'm building around the house and out to the backyard to um you know digging it out and laying sand and putting uh pavers on top of that so that's a a lot easier [speaker002:] yeah you got something going all the time

[speaker001:] okay I was thinking about camping and different I people's ideas about it [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] we've even seen people with these campers and they got the big old antennas up so they can watch their TV when they're going but that's not [speaker002:] right or the satellite dish [speaker001:] yeah a satellite dish [speaker002:] on top of those recreational vehicles [speaker001:] oh golly that's not the kind we do do you go camping [speaker002:] yeah we have a little bit and we've just gotten one of those little tents that we throw out on the ground and that's what we camp in so we kind of rough it [speaker001:] well so do we in fact when we first got married we would try to take these trips to Minnesota to see his family [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and we didn't have a tent or any camping supplies so we'd sleep on those picnic tables at roadside parks I mean I know it's dangerous I wouldn't do it now but we did [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] and one time we went to Yellowstone and we were doing the same thing we couldn't find a place to camp and so we were on top of a picnic table with our our sleeping bags I guess and this ranger comes up with this light shines it on us and said that we're just bear bait out there we had our food you know [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] and told us to get inside our car [speaker002:] gosh bear bait [speaker001:] bear bait [speaker002:] that would make me nervous [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] have you done any camping around here [speaker001:] yeah we've got some land at Holly Lake outside of Tyler [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and go up there fairly often sometimes we get a lot of people together to do it [speaker002:] yeah that sounds fun [speaker001:] and we've done things like when when it's kind of cold we take extension cords and we've all brought heaters in our tents and in the summer same thing we get our extension cords running from all these tents but we've got the fans going [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] so we're not roughing it too much and we have taken TVs out there for the kids [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] and they've got their electrical hookups so it's not so bad [speaker002:] yeah do you go on long like a week at a time or just weekends [speaker001:] I think the longest we've stayed out there is like five days and they even they had a library at one time out there [speaker002:] uh-huh oh [speaker001:] so that's really not roughing it so much but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] we have gone on trips we've bathed in streams [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] that's kind of different [speaker002:] yeah I like the campgrounds that have a nice shower [speaker001:] and a pool to go to that would be nice [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah we've uh we camped at the DeGray State Park in Arkansas in the fall and there was nobody else hardly around and it was just really nice that time of year we had taken our electric blanket too just in case it was unbearable but we didn't need it [speaker001:] well my husband has even camped at Lake Lavon with one of his friends he just decided to take the kids out there [speaker002:] oh really yeah [speaker001:] I mean it's not very many miles from our house at all but they had the time of their lives you know [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] had the boat just pulled up right by the tents [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it wasn't bad [speaker002:] that sounds nice [speaker001:] yeah and we've taken our tents though loaded them up in car carrier and decided we were going to tent most of the way and it ended up when it came time for us to pull in for the night we'd take a vote and most of the time we decided we wanted to stay in a hotel [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] instead of getting out all that stuff you know [speaker002:] yeah it's a lot of work to set up just for one night [speaker001:] yeah then you have to get up the next day and move it on [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] huh-uh but we're set now we've got cook stoves and we've got our bug light and everybody's got their sleeping bags we got air mattresses we decided that was easier than cots and more comfortable [speaker002:] yeah those are nice we have one of those too uh-huh [speaker001:] yeah those double ones pretty good we're on our third one I think somehow [speaker002:] yeah how do you blow yours up [speaker001:] we've got an electric pump that hooks into the cigarette lighter [speaker002:] oh we we were looking at those in a magazine last time we went we took our vacuum cleaner with us [speaker001:] I didn't know you could do that [speaker002:] and yeah you can if you can reverse the nozzle on your vacuum cleaner and it blows air out instead of sucking it in and you can [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] fill them up that way but it something that's smaller would be a lot more convenient [speaker001:] no joke I hope you didn't have a big vacuum cleaner [speaker002:] no uh-huh we have a my husband and I we have a pickup truck so there's plenty of room to hold things [speaker001:] yeah now we've used a hair dryer before [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but I put it on hot and also melted it [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] I found that you don't do that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I didn't realize it would melt so easily [speaker002:] oh [speaker001:] I don't know [speaker002:] we take we take our dog camping she likes to go out and stay in the woods sleep she sleeps in the tent with us [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] it's fun [speaker001:] I don't like it when there's mosquitoes so bad [speaker002:] oh me either [speaker001:] and then one night we were camping and it came just a torrential downpour we had the steaks on the grill these people were with us and it I mean everything was sopping wet inside the tent it was just that bad you know [speaker002:] oh no [speaker001:] and we decided we'd just go across the road to the office and see if we could rent anything [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so I got a condo with a jacuzzi and it was wonderful yeah [speaker002:] oh boy that was lucky [speaker001:] yeah it was [speaker002:] we've been lucky we've never really been rained on the few times we've gone [speaker001:] it's horrible [speaker002:] oh I bet it when we were younger when I was a kid we camped in Virginia and we had one of those little pop up tents which is really nice because it kind of gets you off the ground but it seemed like it rained every weekend for about a year the year we we were really into camping [speaker001:] you mean that you put on a truck or what [speaker002:] uh no it's a little trailer you pull behind your car and uh [speaker001:] oh yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know you the lid pops off the little tent comes up the top and it had two double beds in it [speaker001:] how many weeks have you been doing these calls [speaker002:] oh since the beginning I guess it's been two or three weeks [speaker001:] I think this must be into my third week too so do you work for TI [speaker002:] uh well I work as a temporary in the Speech Lab [speaker001:] in a speech lab [speaker002:] uh-huh where they're doing this program the voice recognition program [speaker001:] and what exactly are they going to do [speaker002:] oh they turn them over to somebody and they're going to I guess they're going to try to teach computers how to recognize voices and search for specific words and stuff [speaker001:] so any voice no matter what the speech pattern or the dialect or anything [speaker002:] right yeah [speaker001:] hum I wonder if these are going to be speaking the computers [speaker002:] I don't know I type up the tapes of what people talked about [speaker001:] oh that's kind of neat [speaker002:] yeah it's sort of interesting [speaker001:] do you put all the uh-hums in here on everything too [speaker002:] uh-huh everything like that all the little stutters and everything [speaker001:] what do you write for stutter duh duh [speaker002:] oh like if they say I I we just type it in like that [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] well I guess that's it for camping huh [speaker001:] I guess so unless you want to talk about stakes what size stakes to put in you need metal instead of plastic [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and you make sure that you keep up with them for the next time we got one of those kind that have got the [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh what is it they're plastic and they've got the elastic on the inside of the poles and you just put them together and it's a dome tent [speaker002:] oh uh-huh that's what we have too yeah that's what ours is [speaker001:] that's good isn't it [speaker002:] yeah yeah they pop up pretty fast [speaker001:] yeah but [speaker002:] have you ever camped on sand [speaker001:] um no [speaker002:] that can be a mess we camped at the beach one time and that was sort of miserable you just couldn't everywhere you went there was sand you couldn't even when you're eating it it was in your bed [speaker001:] I've done it in a shelter [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] it was in Padre Island and in a truck of course not but not in a tent [speaker002:] oh uh-huh [speaker001:] oh well that's about all I know to okay uh-huh bye [speaker002:] okay well it's good talking to you bye

[speaker001:] Well, uh, it seems to me that, uh, that I do not know whether the jury system, uh, I, I should not say I do not know. I do not feel very, uh, stronger that the jury system should be changed. It seems to have worked, uh, time immemorial. And when, uh, difficult decisions, uh, are made, uh, uh, uh, they generally prove out to be right by things that occur later on. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, I know in some cases now in some states, depending on the criminal code, uh, a unanimous verdict is not required. And indeed some juries are no longer twelve people, they are down to as little, as small as six people in, I think, in petty, in, in, uh, in, uh, in minor felonies, and, uh, and misdemeanor trials. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] Uh, I think that the judges should be left to do most of the sentencing, simply because, uh, there is always, uh, there is, [speaker002:] [Cough]. [speaker001:] there is always a jury that might be [LAUGHTER] swayed, uh, by the moment, uh, to either to be too lenient or too vengeful, I guess. [speaker002:] Yeah. On the other hand, uh, attorney, uh, uh, justices are more apt to, uh, understand, you know, the cr-, the prison crowding problems and things like that, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and have that sway their decisions one way or the other. [speaker001:] But, I mean, is not that, [speaker002:] You know. [speaker001:] uh, is that a reflection then of what is really happening in the real world? If, if, if they keep giving everybody hundred year sentences, and the people in various states, it does not seem that people want to be taxed to build more prisons. Or even in, for that matter, uh, repair the, uh, the lack of judges and, and, and other, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. I think that is what is happening. I think, uh, the judges are trying to save the people from having to, [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] the cost of new prisons. [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] They, [speaker001:] yeah, you know, that might be it. I mean, they, [speaker002:] they are saying, [speaker001:] they certainly, [speaker002:] oh, well, you know, [speaker001:] I do not, [speaker002:] the, the people cannot [speaker001:] I don't know how [speaker002:] afford it. [speaker001:] it is in Virginia, but in Florida now, uh, uh, uh, at eighteen years, someone was just sentenced to eighteen years, I heard it on TODAY, uh, without any specific recommendation for, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, waving the normal, uh, procedures. And the eighteen years will, uh, translate into something like, uh, four point seven, if every, if the, if the prisoner is a model prisoner, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] and indeed the present overcrowding conditions, uh, prevail. [speaker002:] [Sneezing]. [speaker001:] Plus, I guess, there was some credit for time this guy had already spent in jail waiting for trial. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] So, uh, yeah, you might be right about that. I, I, I do not know, it just seems to me that only about, uh, from what I read, only about ninety percent of the ca-, only about ten percent of the pa-, cases come for trial anyway. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And, uh, only about, uh, f-, four or five percent of, uh, in the, in the very end or less than, less than half the trials that go to, uh, less than half the cases that go to trial, uh, end up w-, with, [speaker002:] With a conviction? [speaker001:] uh, with the jury actually making the verdict. [speaker002:] Oh, okay. [speaker001:] That most of it is plea bargained, uh, half way through or, or most of the cases are plea bargained anyway. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] But, uh, uh, how do you feel about the, uh, about the jury system itself? Do you, do you think that should be changed? Or do you, do you know in Virginia whether it is, if they have smaller juries or, [speaker002:] Uh, I do not know exactly what the size of the juries. I know one of my friends was, uh, uh, brought up for jury duty. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] For, and he only heard very, you know, piddly type cases. Most of it was, uh, robberies or things like that, you know, it was not any serious crimes. So apparently even for the smallest crimes, they give the person the, you know, any felony anyways. [speaker001:] Yeah. Well, I guess we, [speaker002:] Th-, they give the person the option for a jury. [speaker001:] Yeah. I guess we always focus on criminal trials with th-, with the jury. But I know you have a right to ask for a jury in, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in any sort of a case that even where damages are, are, are, uh, are the result of some sort of a, uh, an action that you are bringing against someone else. You can ask [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] for that to be heard before a jury. Takes a heck of a long time, I guess, to get there [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] in some states. I, I, I do not know, uh, I should imagine Virginia, from what I read, uh, uh, is like every other state. It, it is faced with, uh, uh, enormous costs to maintain the jury system and the prison system and the entire trial system. Because I guess, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] everywhere I read that there is a shortage of judges. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] Not that they won't appoint them but there is no budget for them, I guess. Or, [speaker002:] Huh. [speaker001:] and the courthouse that goes with them and the bailiffs and the clerk, uh, [speaker002:] Yeah. Whatever. [speaker001:] court clerks. So it seems, uh, no, I, I, I do not think I would change it. The more I verbalize it, I, I do not think I would want to change the system. [speaker002:] Right, [speaker001:] I do not [speaker002:] uh, I do not think I would either. [speaker001:] know what we would replace it with [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. I know, it, uh, does seem like the, the, the, the purpose of getting people in jail so that, you know, the, the, I cannot think of the word I am looking for. Anyway, the deterrent. [speaker001:] Yes. [speaker002:] For people to, to commit the cri-, uh, to not to commit the crime is sort of gone away. People have, I do not know, they just do not care any more. The benefit, I guess, of crime outweighs what the deterrent is. [speaker001:] Uh, and yet [speaker002:] You know, people that, [speaker001:] there are, there are so many, there are so many people in prison. I mean the prison population, uh, as far as I, I, uh, you know, my impression of it is that it has, that it has doubled in the last ten years and tripled in the last twenty. [speaker002:] Um. [speaker001:] I mean it, so has our, I guess our population has grown some too. But there, there definitely is, uh, uh, you know, to me the, one of the worst things that could ever happen, uh, from what I read and see and understand. I mean I do no think I could handle prison. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I mean it would be [speaker002:] Well, I would be interested in [speaker001:] very difficult, [speaker002:] finding out what the, uh, percentage of drug related type things are, [speaker001:] Well, there must be a, [speaker002:] and, uh, [speaker001:] ca-, a, a, a very great degree of that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] But, but there again I, I do not know if the, the jury system itself, uh, comes in to play there. I would think that, one of the things that sort of bothers me is the ability, of course th-, it is a constitutional right that the press must have here, is th-, the interviewing of jurors after the trial. I mean that, it seems to me that, that, that when a jury makes a decision, they should not be asked, uh, before television cameras and newspaper reporters how they reached that decision. I mean, I do not, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I imagine there is a certain, certain right of the press to have the ability to ask that. But I, I would think I, if I did anything, I would protect the juror from, from any sort of an inquisition after [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, I know, uh, on the other hand though, when, uh-, after the Barry trial, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] up here, you know, the big local [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] trial, [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. Well, [speaker002:] as well as national. [speaker001:] I do a lot of business up in Washington. I was there during the, during the trial actually, yeah. [speaker002:] Yeah. And the opposite was true of me. Uh, after the case was over, I was like, somebody get ahold of these people and find out why in the world did they vote the way they did, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] you know [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] yeah, yeah. [speaker002:] It was like, well, a picture is not good enough. We want to see, I do not know what they wanted honestly [LAUGHTER]. Did they want the guy to, I do not know. *qy but its' abandoned I mean, just because you feel like he was being kicked on, which he certainly was, you know. I think, I, no doubt in my mind the federal government picked him out and selected him to be [speaker001:] Oh, I felt that way. [speaker002:] prosecuted. [speaker001:] I felt, [speaker002:] But [speaker001:] I felt, [speaker002:] it does not matter. The guy was obviously [speaker001:] no, but, [speaker002:] guilty [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah [LAUGHTER]. I always balanced in the, in the situation. I remember the jurors, uh, I thought to myself, how did, how did they only, I think they only, uh, found him [speaker002:] One, one count. [speaker001:] guilty on one count. Which was, uh, not even, which was a class something felony. Which was not even punishable, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] uh, uh, to the degree that they thought it. But I do not know, maybe when you are there in the r-, in the courtroom yourself and you are sitting there and you have got to make a judgment on somebody. And the prosecutors do a lousy job, or maybe the evidence was not as sensational as the media presented it. I mean, I, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I am not making excuses for [NOISE]. That might be it. [speaker002:] Well, yeah. I think we are getting, [speaker001:] I think I am getting a call coming in. [speaker002:] Oh [LAUGHTER]. Okay. [speaker001:] All right, nice [speaker002:] Well, it has been nice [speaker001:] talking with you. [speaker002:] talking [speaker001:] Thank you. [speaker002:] to you. Uh-huh. Bye-bye.

[speaker001:] So what kind of weather have you had in Dallas? [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Well, it's been very windy, and it's, uh, probably unseasonably hot for time right now. [speaker001:] Really? Yeah see, I didn't, I don't, I thought, uh, I thought, I lived in Euless and I thought it was pretty normal, but [breathing] anyway, but I guess you're right though it has been real hot, because it, um, I've had to use the air conditioner in March, [speaker002:] Yeah, we've already had to use that, [speaker001:] my husband usually, [speaker002:] and we've had like, I mean, this is probably typical though, uh, we, like tornado weather and tornado warnings, and, uh, [lipsmack], [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] so, uh, you know, I, I forget from year to year. I'm getting too old. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] But, the, uh, [speaker001:] [Noise]. [speaker002:] it, th-, the wind's blowing very hard, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but I guess, you know, we're just out of March, and, uh [speaker001:] Yeah, I know, [speaker002:] will bring the rain in, uh, April. [speaker001:] [Noise] The trees are real pretty right now and everything. And, uh, I don't know. I know the pollen is real high, but I think it's higher than usual, isn't it? [speaker002:] Yes, it is. Seems very high. It hasn't bothered me, but I know that people that have allergies it seems to be pretty high. [speaker001:] Yeah, I know. It's been bothering me a lot, but yeah, I think, nor-, I think the weather overall has been, um, probably like you said, probably a little bit warm and, [speaker002:] A little bit warm [speaker001:] Uh, [speaker002:] and a little bit blowy, I think. [speaker001:] Anyway, so we basically live in the same area so it's real hard to, [speaker002:] Really hard to make too big of different comparisons, [speaker001:] I know. [speaker002:] right? Yeah. [speaker001:] I just think it's been warm, and it's been hot, [NOISE] and I liked it, and it's beautiful, and all the trees are pretty, and I wish it would stay like this all the time [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yes, I could stand this all summer. [speaker001:] So yeah, I could too. And, uh, gah, I don't think we can say anything else really. [speaker002:] I don't think we can either, let's cut off. [speaker001:] Yeah, that sounds like a good deal. Well, you have a nice day. [speaker002:] You too. [speaker001:] And we'll talk to you later. [speaker002:] Bye-bye. [speaker001:] Bye.

[speaker001:] What type of lawn and garden work do you do? [speaker002:] Well, I do it all [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] I see. Do you have a garden? [speaker002:] Uh, yes. I, I try to grow, uh, uh, a vegetable garden and, [speaker001:] We do the same thing. It's, I just have a small plot it's like ten feet by five feet. [speaker002:] Yeah. I have two plots, one's ten by ten and one's like fifteen by four. [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] It's a long skinny one and, [speaker001:] Yeah, you do a lot more area than I do. I've, all the rest of my yard, backyard is, uh, you know, pool and decking it's all the dirt I have, [speaker002:] Oh, I see. [speaker001:] left in my backyard [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] Yeah. I see. [speaker001:] Well, I enj-, I enjoy fiddling around. It's cheap entertainment. [speaker002:] Right. Right. Yeah, it's nice to get out in the open air. [speaker001:] It is, uh-huh. [speaker002:] And especially when the weather's not too hot or, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] not raining or whatever, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] but, uh, [speaker001:] I enjoy, [speaker002:] sometimes I, [speaker001:] Excuse me, go ahead. [speaker002:] I said, I sometimes I wish I had more space [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know. I grow a lot of things, a lot of food. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And sometimes I, I want to plant something, there's not enough room to plant. [speaker001:] That's right. That's right. [speaker002:] Some of those things like, uh, you know, the things that vine like, uh, cucumbers, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or, uh, squash or something, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] like that. [speaker001:] Takes a lot of room. [speaker002:] Plant one of those and it takes up your whole space [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] It sure does. I made mistake one year and planted some cantaloupe, my goodness, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] what a mistake that was. [speaker002:] Yeah. They, they just run all over, [speaker001:] They do. [speaker002:] the place, don't they, [speaker001:] Well, it was very good it just takes up, you know, like you say, a lot of your garden area. [speaker002:] Right. Right. . [speaker001:] It's the first and only time I've done that. We don't do anything exotic we just do, oh, [speaker002:] The basics. [speaker001:] tomatoes, bell peppers, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] radishes and turnips, I mean, not turnips, carrots, beets and things like that. [speaker002:] Yeah. That's what we do too. [speaker001:] My wife used to plant a few snow peas. I don't really care for snow peas. Well, she just plants a few for herself. [speaker002:] Right. Peas [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I, I got a few peas out my garden a couple of days ago. [speaker001:] Did you really? [speaker002:] The first one, they started them indoors this time. I read it, [speaker001:] Oh, I see. [speaker002:] And so I, [speaker001:] Okay. We don't start anything indoors we, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] just wait until, you know, the weather warm enough to stick it in the ground. [speaker002:] I, uh, I guess you can get an earlier harvest by doing that, [speaker001:] Probably so. Yeah, you can get a head start on it. [Noise] [sounds like ice in glass.] [speaker002:] But, uh, sure is a heck of a lot of work. [speaker001:] I guess it, it, [speaker002:] Because you got to, [speaker001:] might would, yeah. [speaker002:] watch them every day, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and keep them watered and I, I don't think I'll do it again [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER] Well it will make, it will make them taste better I'm sure. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Yeah, I enjoy it. I come home from work and, and I usually say hello to wife and kids, [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] and then go out and fiddle, you know, just walk around the yard and [speaker001:] You got to inspect it, yeah. [speaker002:] inspect it and the kids want to swing, [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] and I push them on swing. [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] And I wal-, I mow my own lawn. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And I do, I don't have a sprinkler system. I, I don't enjoy watering. [speaker001:] No. [speaker002:] Especially, [speaker001:] I, this is the first home we've lived in we've had a sprinkler system, [speaker002:] Oh how, [speaker001:] and boy, it is really nice, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] it sure beats dragging hoses around. [speaker002:] Yeah, you can have it come on just early in the morning. [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] And, and off by the, you know, by the time you're up and about. [speaker001:] That's right. It's really nice. [speaker002:] Yeah. I, I usually get it started for my wife [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and I, and she moves it around [LAUGHTER] ever other day. [speaker001:] I'll have to admit I don't, I do my own yard. I, I really don't enjoy doing that. I enjoy having a nice looking yard, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I just don't enjoy the work, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] that it takes to get it done. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I had a lawn service to do my yard for me [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] during the real hot summer months, you know, until I retired and now I, I've lost my excuse for that so I have to [LAUGHTER], [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] for the last couple of years I've done it myself. [speaker002:] Yeah. Sometimes I wish I could get one of these, uh, chemical services to come, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] out and spray for weeds, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and fertilize, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] and all that and take that one step out of. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] But, uh, they want too much money. [speaker001:] It is kind of expensive, it is. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Of course, the chemicals themselves when you buy them, they're expensive too. [speaker002:] Right. Right. But it's still be quite a bit cheaper to do it yourself. [speaker001:] That's right. If I have a problem discipline, you know, I think, now, boy, I really need to get out, you know, and apply something, you know, and I screw around and don't do it or wait too long or something. [speaker002:] Right and the weed come up, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] and all of a sudden you've got to do something else. [speaker001:] That's right. I'm, I'm kind of bad about that. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] I enjoyed having a lawn service but now I have the time and I really can't, I really don-, you know, don't, [speaker002:] Well, if you, [speaker001:] want to spend the money for it. [speaker002:] enjoy it too, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] you know, you, you can get out in the morning when, before it gets hot and, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] and do it and stuff, [speaker001:] I'm not limited to, [speaker002:] when you only have to, [speaker001:] just mowing it on Saturday morning, you know, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] I can do it on most any day of the week. [speaker002:] When the days start getting a little longer, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] you know, you can, I can start doing it in the evening after work. [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] When they, when they switch to, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] switch, when we get an hour more, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] when they rollback an hour. [speaker001:] That's coming up here pretty soon. Is it this weekend? [speaker002:] I don't know. [speaker001:] It's pretty soon. [speaker002:] I really don't know. It just seems like I here it on the news the day before. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And, uh, I, I think it's coming up here soon. [speaker001:] [Noise] [ice] I believe it is too. [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] Well, [speaker002:] Are you having any trouble with bugs in, in your garden? [speaker001:] Uh, not a whole lot, uh. I, I don't use, I, I seldom use anything harsher than seven dust, you know. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] I don't really like to put a lot chemicals on it but then, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] again, I don't want the bugs eating it upping either. [speaker002:] Right. I, I, it seems like they come in spurts. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] One year I didn't put anything on and I didn't have any problems. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Next year I was planting some broccoli and, and some of those, they're called cabbage, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] cabbage loppers, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] or whatever. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] They were just covered with them, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I mean, I went up, I didn't go out there for about three days, you know, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] because I, and I went out there one day and the plant was noth-, nothing left but a stem, [speaker001:] That's right. [speaker002:] they devoured it that quickly. [speaker001:] Absolutely. They really go through it, [speaker002:] And, they, they, [speaker001:] they really do. [speaker002:] have a, you, a good appetite [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] And they would, you know, I, I picked off like twenty of them and, [speaker001:] You know cutworms will do the same thing to your tomato vines too. [speaker002:] Ye-, yeah. [speaker001:] Boy, they'll strip, [speaker002:] They got that, uh, what is that safer soap, uh, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] B T spray this, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] year. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And I've been watching them every day and I've, and I haven't seen any signs yet. So, if I see any signs I'm going to spray them, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, uh, [speaker001:] I did something a little bit different this year that I haven't done before, I've got, my garden is shaped that I can, it's kind like this, uh, box shape, so I got four pieces of two by twelve and joined them together and just made a box. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And put in a whole bunch like eight hundred pounds of topsoil and manure and, you know, various other things, [speaker002:] Well, the good stuff. [speaker001:] Raised it up. [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] And I'm hoping especially with those big tall sides on there it that maybe I won't have, oh, I'll have less of a bug problem any-, at least they, they'll have a hard time crawling up the thing. [speaker002:] Right. Yeah, my backyard is, uh, is sloping so I built a box up, you know [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] had to build the one, the low side up. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, uh, I had sandy loam hauled in. I had a dump truck come and dump it. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] On my driveway, I guess, that's what they do and then, [speaker001:] Yeah, [speaker002:] I had to wheel barrow it in. [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] But, uh, you know, you can improve your own soil there [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] but the Texas soil isn't the greatest, [speaker001:] That's right, [speaker002:] gardening soil. [speaker001:] you, you have to work on. You, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] really do. [speaker002:] And you know, if I, I didn't wait five years for it to be good enough grow you know what I mean [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] That's right. When we had our pool done I had them to leave some extra loam, you know, for my garden so I had, I had a lot of loam out there to start with I just turned it all up and mixed it all up together [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] with, [speaker002:] Do you have, do you have a rotor tiller? [speaker001:] No. I don't, I did it by hand, [speaker002:] Small enough, you have a, just do it by hand? [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] It wasn't too much of a job, [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] really. [speaker002:] Yeah. [speaker001:] Like I say it's just, [speaker002:] Yeah. I'd like to get one of these little small ones, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] that you see in all these gardening magazines. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. It would be handy. [speaker002:] And it weighs twenty pounds or, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] something like that. My neighbor across the street has one. He always uses it to dethatch his lawn, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] I see him out there, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and I guess it has a thatcher attachment to it. [speaker001:] It might be handy, [speaker002:] Yeah. Yeah. [speaker001:] They're pretty neat little, I've never seen one. [speaker002:] I have a friend who has one and, and he lets me, you know, no problem borrowing if it's, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] just a hassle when you know, [speaker001:] Oh, yeah. [speaker002:] to go up and it's a fairly large one to, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] heave it up into the back of the van, [speaker001:] Uh-huh [Noise] [Ice rattling]. [speaker002:] bring it home and, [speaker001:] Right. [speaker002:] check it back and just grab it, you know, if I, just go to my garage and grab it. [speaker001:] Yeah. That would be neat, sure. [speaker002:] That would be nice. [speaker001:] We've had a garden, gosh, for years and years and years, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] of some size, you know, I can't remember a year when we didn't have one of some kind. [speaker002:] What have you got growing right now? [speaker001:] Uh, got, you know tomatoes that are starting to bloom [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and, uh, I've got carrots, I mea-, yes, I've got a few carrots up and I've got some radishes up, [speaker002:] Uh-huh. [speaker001:] and as a matter of fact, I've already done a second row of radishes. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Yeah. [speaker001:] And, uh, the green onions are coming along. [speaker002:] Okay, [speaker001:] Snow, [speaker002:] what kind, [speaker001:] excuse me. [speaker002:] what kind of onions do you grow? Do you grow those, those ten, fifteen Y? [speaker001:] Yes, I've for the first time we planted them this year. [speaker002:] Oh, they, they are the best. [speaker001:] Yeah. We tried to find them last year, we screwed around and waited too long and I couldn't find a nursery that had any of them left. [speaker002:] Uh-huh. Uh-huh. [speaker001:] But we've got some this year. [speaker002:] Uh, those, [speaker001:] Snow peas are up and, uh, my wife does, uh, a small herb garden on the side. [speaker002:] I see. [speaker001:] They're up and doing fine. [speaker002:] Yeah. I, uh, those onions, I think, we, we planted like twice as much this year because, you know, we got, on-, onions and they lasted from, you know, about when you harvest them about a month from now or so, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] or six weeks, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] from now, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] until, until like October, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and, uh, we really missed them when they were gone, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] because the ones from the grocery store just can't, [speaker001:] Yeah. That's kind of a, [speaker002:] compare. [speaker001:] let down. [speaker002:] She made these onion rings that were so good, [speaker001:] Oh, I bet, [speaker002:] and, and, [speaker001:] they were. [speaker002:] and, uh, you don't realize how many dishes you put onions in, [speaker001:] That's right. We use a lot, [speaker002:] that it's an ingredient, [speaker001:] we sure do. [speaker002:] and, and it was just like everything you put it into tasted so much better. [speaker001:] Yeah. One nice thing with onions and, and bell peppers at least you can chop them and freeze them if you have, [speaker002:] Right. [speaker001:] you know, too many. [speaker002:] Right. We froze a lot of peppers. We let some turn red. [speaker001:] Yeah. Uh-huh. We did that too, [speaker002:] And some we do green and then my wife puts them on pizzas. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] And, and chops them up in recipes [speaker001:] Sure. Makes, uh, [speaker002:] and things like that. [speaker001:] makes a colorful salad too. [speaker002:] Oh, yeah. Put them in salad, yeah. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] You're, you're making me hungry here. [speaker001:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] We planted some yellow peppers this year. We've tried it, [speaker002:] Oh. [speaker001:] before and nope, we haven't had much luck with it we're going to try it again this year. [speaker002:] Yellow peppers, huh. [speaker001:] They have some little buds on them hopefully they'll do something. [speaker002:] Yeah. Sounds like you have a real good garden. [speaker001:] Yeah. We enjoy fooling around with it. [speaker002:] Just let me see what I got, I got the peas and I've got some broccoli, uh, onions some, some radishes and, uh, uh, beets. [speaker001:] Beets. Yeah, we've got some beets, uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, and I planted potatoes too. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. I've never done potato. We used to do it at home when I was a kid, [speaker002:] Oh, the potato, [speaker001:] had a huge garden. [speaker002:] They were, they're delicious but they, you don't get, seem to get that much for the space, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] they, they do. [speaker001:] It takes a, yeah, it does take some space. [speaker002:] Some beet, uh, potatoes [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] and I've got some tomatoes still growing, [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] in, in containers, [speaker001:] I see. [speaker002:] I got to wait for a place to, to, to free up. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] Uh, our, our kids love pickles and we all love pickles so we're going to try to grow our own pickles this year. [speaker001:] Uh-huh. That will be neat, yeah. [speaker002:] We've got some good, um, um, Hybrid Burpee uh [speaker001:] Uh-huh. [speaker002:] uh, pickler cucumbers and we're going to try to see if we can pickle our own and, [speaker001:] That will be neat, yeah. [speaker002:] So, because have you seen how much pickles cost in the store? [speaker001:] Absolutely, they're expensive. [speaker002:] I know it. I said, why are they so expensive they're just a bunch of little cucumbers, you know? [speaker001:] I don't know unless it, [speaker002:] [LAUGHTER]. [speaker001:] labor intensive or something. I really, [speaker002:] I guess. [speaker001:] don't know. [speaker002:] But we're going to try that, [speaker001:] That will be interesting. [speaker002:] and see how that works. An experiment. [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I'd like to try, you know, just try something new, [speaker001:] Sure. [speaker002:] every year that, [speaker001:] Yeah. [speaker002:] I haven't tried before and, [speaker001:] That's interesting. [speaker002:] Well. [speaker001:] Well, I'll let you go it's,

[speaker002:] um what is your experience been with like do you have elderly relatives that live with you or have lived with your parents or something like that [speaker001:] no um my husband has a grandmother in a nursing home and that has been a real mess to say the least [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] but uh they keep seem to keep moving her in and out of different ones that they had just got done moving her uh into another one because the one she was in they gave her some medication she was definitely allergic to and almost killed her [speaker002:] oh gosh [speaker001:] and and and it was posted you know above her bed not to give her penicillin [speaker002:] and they gave gave it to her anyway [speaker001:] but but they gave it to her anyway and just she just about died [speaker002:] we had my grandfather had Alzheimer's Alzheimer's disease and my grandmother kept him at home as long as she could [speaker001:] hm yeah [speaker002:] actually my parents and my uncle and aunt who tried to convince them to go into like an old age community where he could have gotten care [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and she could've had help with somebody cleaning and things like that and she refused she she just didn't want to do it she felt I I don't know maybe too much guilt or something [speaker001:] yeah yeah yeah I I I don't I don't feel he uh my husband's grandmother is that bad off and they they offered you know to get to hire you know an a roommate or uh or a part time nurse and she just wouldn't have it at all [speaker002:] uh-huh and so eventually they were forced to put her [speaker001:] they they were forced to put her in a nursing home [speaker002:] yes well my grandfather he eventually completely lost [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] control type of things I I mean I don't know if he ever really got violent but they put him in a nursing home and actually the problem that they had with him was more with the hospital the the nursing home you know some day he had a fever or something so they sent him to a hospital which is what they think to routinely do which I think is ridiculous too [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] you know because they might not be really be sick and at the hospital they um did an electrocardiogram [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and decided that he had a heart problem and you know here he was [speaker001:] oh my [speaker002:] very old he had Alzheimer's he'd been like a vegetable for a year and the hospital said oh we have to put in a pacemaker and you know wanted to prove approval for it and all this sort of stuff and eventually [speaker001:] yeah oh oh boy [speaker002:] you know the whole family is in an uproar discussing it and some of the kids said well they yeah they should do it and others you know said it's ridiculous this man whose body finally wants to die just let him die and um [speaker001:] oh yes [speaker002:] eventually the at the hospital they said no to the doctor and they found out it wasn't even his electrocardiogram that there was some other patient you know by the time he'd been sent back to the nursing home and [speaker001:] yeah oh my gosh [speaker002:] under care there [speaker001:] it tears apart families it really it it it just the biggest fights [speaker002:] but oh [speaker001:] just it it it's because of that I mean that that will divide you divide brothers and sisters quicker than anything its [speaker002:] it's horrible sometimes you just can't keep the person at home they're just know [speaker001:] oh that's true but but the the nursing home situation is such a is such a pitiful situation I mean if you just if you go every time we go visit her it's just it's just gut wrenching to me [speaker002:] oh I felt went to visit my grandfather one time in the nursing home and I said never again I said I just can't go [speaker001:] I I can't I I I can't hardly handle it myself [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh it's it's [speaker002:] but I had a cousin of mine that was in a different nursing home which was sort of nicer you know and until really close to the end she was able to go out and take walks and things and they took her outside and in some ways I think it might have even [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] been better or I I say say cousin's like my grandmother's cousin but I had been really close to her and in some ways I think for her might have even been better because she used to live in [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah [speaker002:] an area that when she moved down there was mostly elderly people well not [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] you know it was like a community of apartments that were mostly elderly when she moved there she might have been like sixty it wasn't you know ancient but you know older and then that community for some reason started getting the apartments were fairly low income I guess [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] and started being bought out by families and things and she started having fewer and fewer friends [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and people just she she she she used to say to me when at when she was ninety two or something at the time say [speaker001:] oh my [speaker002:] um you know I just I all my friends have died off I have nothing to do I'm bored you know I walk over to the store I walk back someone comes and picks me up and brings me to the community and so when she went to a nursing home [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] in the beginning I think she kind of liked it she did art work there she did it was almost a progressive type nursing home [speaker001:] yeah well if you're not in real bad shape it's it's you know a retirement a retirement home is is is a good idea for somebody like that but uh if you've got a lot of health problems [speaker002:] uh-huh yeah then you just can't get better [speaker001:] it it it's just it's a mess it's just a big huge mess because because my husband's grandmother has a lot of health problems [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] and uh and his like his other parents grandparents on his other side both were in a nursing home and his grandmother his other grandmother his dad's mother finally went into a coma and she was in a coma for almost two years in a nursing before before she passed away and that that was awful [speaker002:] uh-huh well I'm sure [speaker001:] and and um [speaker002:] does the medical care in nursing homes is typically less than [speaker001:] pitiful it it it's it's [speaker002:] in but are they supposed to give as much [speaker001:] well well well what what they do is is they're supposed to monitor them but they don't monitor them very well at all [speaker002:] home care you know [speaker001:] I mean that that's the problem uh his grandmother that's in it now she had a stroke and they didn't catch it for three days if you can imagine such a thing [speaker002:] jeez [speaker001:] so that so then that she that was when she got moved from the first one to the second one where she was given penicillin [speaker002:] uh-huh of the second one [speaker001:] at the second one an d now she's at the third one so it's it it it it's been a really bad situation but I have but that's all I hear about nursing homes is bad situations [speaker002:] oh gosh that's horrible had they checked into these nursing homes much before they put her in it or they just sort of I mean I it's something that's hard to even get places in there you're lucky if you get a spot [speaker001:] well that yes that that's true but um they're in a smaller small area and our and in fact they're over up in Missouri and and and and what I would you would really consider a rural area and where there's like one nursing home per town [speaker002:] uh-huh no so you probably don't have too much choice [speaker001:] yes oh no no no there's there is not a whole lot of choice so they've they've moved through three different towns now [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so um [speaker002:] but really it's pitiful [speaker001:] it is and it the regulations I don't think the government the government regulations are the place I I don't think are are adequate either because they just don't the ones I've been in just don't aren't real real clean uh you know they do they do a halfway decent job but I it seems like they're they're they tend to be kind of slack [speaker002:] often times I've gone into nursing homes where you know they have like a central area where they take the people to and all you do is to just sort of sit there like [speaker001:] leave them yes [speaker002:] you know almost like they're mentally retarded patients or something and some of them you know they're just sitting in the wheelchair and sleeping or whatever and it's just it's heart breaking you know and and I I feel like you know what have I moved into and and they're [speaker001:] vegetables uh-hum I know I know it's [speaker002:] some of them I think just needs stimulation [speaker001:] yeah I mean it's almost like a mental hospital atmosphere instead of a nursing home [speaker002:] yeah well I've never been to a mental hospital but we [speaker001:] well me neither but but it just seems like that's what it would be like [speaker002:] right like you expect expect from the movies of mental hospitals [speaker001:] like uh one time Rick went and uh I went I didn't go with him and his grandmother was sitting there and she said that man across the hall is naked and he was he was sitting in his wheelchair stark naked [speaker002:] oh gosh [speaker001:] he had he'd got himself undressed and and he just he just like to sit in his wheelchair naked that's not funny but it was funny at the time [speaker002:] yeah yeah but the the I mean the poor man too he could get really cold he could [speaker001:] yeah yeah It was in the it was in the summer at at at at the time but you think they would pay more attention to what was going on that they'd see this guy had taken off his clothes [speaker002:] that's crazy but I think they're under stress I mean I can't imagine working in a nursing home like that either because it must be so depressing [speaker001:] oh oh no oh I couldn't do it I just absolutely couldn't do it [speaker002:] but you know when I see them I don't know that I could when I think of my parents who fortunately shouldn't be close to getting there yet but I don't think of [speaker001:] I know [speaker002:] having to make the decision as to put them into a place like that or not [speaker001:] me too that that is what scares me to death having to be in a in the position like that but you think you think there could be something better than that [speaker002:] horrible I guess I would try and have somebody at the house as long as they were healthy enough but sometimes they're [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] not I I don't know where have the old days gone where people just sort of died of something in their family houses and they're you know [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] people are stabbed but it's not this torture [speaker001:] yeah yeah I've been I've been real fortunate my family's never had anybody anybody anybody like in in in a nursing home but Rick's family my husband's family really has has has [speaker002:] uh-huh that's it's it's interesting because it's my mother's parents well actually my father's parents both of them sort of you know they just died of something um but the my grandmother my grandmother's case which is very sad she fell she came into New York to visit and she fell at the airport going down some steps and spent you know six months in the hospital but it is was still it it was it wasn't [speaker001:] yeah so yeah oh how awful oh [speaker002:] you know the same as a nursing home type of thing [speaker001:] right but still that's six months in a hospital [speaker002:] yeah no that was that that that was horrible it was and she she never even got to see her family that she came in to visit [speaker001:] oh how aweful they they never come to see they never came to see her [speaker002:] no they came to the hospital but I mean she came in [speaker001:] yeah but then she didn't get to go there oh I see [speaker002:] you you know she came in for a pleasurable visit and [speaker001:] oh how awful [speaker002:] fell and cracked cracked her skull open and that was sort of it but just terrible [speaker001:] oh oh how awful [speaker002:] but um my it was really just my grandfather I guess and this one elderly cousin of mine that went into nursing homes [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] but it's just a scary thought every time I certainly don't want to be like that someday [speaker001:] science medical science has prolonged life but they have they haven't really prolonged the quality of it that that's I think that's really the problem they can bring you back bring bring you out of death but they can't [speaker002:] yes

[speaker002:] oh mostly we watch college basketball [speaker001:] oh do you [speaker002:] yeah and uh you know we're from uh originally from Louisville Kentucky and they've got a fairly decent ball club down there [speaker001:] uh-huh yeah it's been around for a long time hadn't it [speaker002:] uh as long as I can remember [speaker001:] yeah who's the coach's name [speaker002:] Denny Crum [speaker001:] yeah that sounds familiar [speaker002:] yeah Denny Crum's pretty good [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] he uh I don't know he's got a million dollar contract when he quits [speaker001:] and with pro ball you mean [speaker002:] uh no with uh uh when he quits they'll give him a million dollars [speaker001:] who will the opponents [speaker002:] Denny Crum uh uh Louisville University the university gives him a million dollars when he quits [speaker001:] well why that doesn't make sense does it [speaker002:] because because he's good and it's giving him an incentitive to stay around and uh he's been there for something twenty something years [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I really don't know the uh full reason why they're doing it but they've got confidence in the man [speaker001:] yeah yeah well to me I'd want to quit [speaker002:] oh he gets too much he gets you know he [speaker001:] oh that just shows how much he gets paid anyway [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] he's got a TV show down there and everything [speaker001:] really where are y'all living now [speaker002:] in Denison [speaker001:] Denison [speaker002:] Texas [speaker001:] yeah do you ever watch the Mavericks [speaker002:] sometimes [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] not a lot uh I I don't really care for pro basketball I like college basketball and pro football [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] but I do watch some uh pro football basketball mostly it's uh I watch certain players [speaker001:] yeah like who [speaker002:] oh Magic Johnson uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] Larry Bird [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] uh Michael Jordan [speaker001:] yeah he's good too [speaker002:] and I can name a few more I just can't think of their names right off hand [speaker001:] uh I used to watch basketball in fact of of the pro sports I guess it's my favorite it's just that I haven't watched many sports this year or in the past several years [speaker002:] yeah well the uh NC double A tournament's going on right now and uh I haven't watched it this year because Louisville's out of it this year [speaker001:] how come [speaker002:] oh they just uh they had three tall guys who had uh didn't meet the requirements you know uh [speaker001:] the uh academic requirements uh-huh [speaker002:] yeah yeah academically they didn't meet the requirements so they couldn't play this year so four of them they had four people [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] my husband's sitting here putting four fingers in my face four uh but they weren't very good but they was uh [speaker001:] four out of five hurts [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] four out of five hurt [speaker002:] yeah well I think they got I think that was almost everyone of them that he recruited uh recruited for this year [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] he didn't and none of them got to play [speaker001:] yeah well no wonder they're out of it [speaker002:] uh sorry [speaker001:] I said no wonder they're out of it [speaker002:] yeah well they put up a good show they did pretty good for uh [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] you know having all short people and uh we only had [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] one we only had one senior on the team [speaker001:] so they'll be back [speaker002:] so next year they'll be back and back with a vengeance [speaker001:] uh-huh well do you agree with that requirement that they meet those uh academic [speaker002:] in some states yeah because it's reasonable now uh you know me with me being from Louisville I'm going to say at Louisville is unfair because Louisville's got the highest uh uh the line the line the line drawn I don't know the correct word for it but Louisville's is higher than most other universities and [speaker001:] uh-huh well I didn't realize it could vary from state to state or university [speaker002:] yeah yeah they they vary from university not just state to state university [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] if they'd been anywhere else I don't you know I don't care where it was anywhere in the United States they could have played but beings they was in Louisville they couldn't play [speaker001:] how does that coach feel about that [speaker002:] oh he's highly upset he uh went on uh he was on uh Twenty Twenty or Sixty Minutes I can't remember which one and got blasted uh you know they uh that's where it all came about because he said a few remarks of uh on that uh talk show or [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] news show and then they uh next thing you know well they're in violation if they don't uh if they stop if they keep playing they're in violation [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so but uh Denny Crum ran his mouth a little bit too much [speaker001:] him on national TV [speaker002:] on national TV he messed up but uh [speaker001:] yeah it's all politics [speaker002:] probably that's probably what it mostly is I I can't say say that for sure but you know uh right now though Kentucky's just now getting off of a uh their [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] suspension from playing on uh TV and then games [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] next year they'll be uh playing and I know Memphis State was even in a few of them where they got uh couldn't play [speaker001:] huh [speaker002:] in uh games and stuff because of uh uh Dana Kirk that was their coach down there uh or over there uh he he was uh we was living in Memphis for a while that's why I know about Memphis State [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh he was selling soda machines at the uh selling like Coca-Cola had given him [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh for this little uh this little uh kid's a a basketball camp that's what it is these little kids would come here and uh Coca-Cola had sponsored the uh sodas you know just give them to him told him to give them to the boys well he sold them for something like fifty seventy five cents to these boys when he's supposed to given them to them [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh oh for heaven's sake what a cheapskate [speaker002:] and uh yeah he was a he's uh we call him Dana Jerk [speaker001:] yeah oh [speaker002:] yeah and he blames all of his uh tax problems on his elementary school wife [speaker001:] his elementary school wife [speaker002:] yeah yeah she she never even got out of elementary school [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] well she might have been the cause of it [speaker002:] well no he was just a jerk he put uh he put the blame on everyone but himself he went out and you know bought uh bought recruits [speaker001:] yeah yeah [speaker002:] no I'm sure you know that's one thing you don't do [speaker001:] uh yeah [speaker002:] he went out and did that and he got caught and then he got caught with the taxes and then he got caught with the sodas and that soda really went over on the people in Memphis they really got hot about that [speaker001:] yeah I can imagine especially the kids that were buying them [speaker002:] yeah these were young kids too they couldn't have been out of middle school [speaker001:] yeah huh well that almighty dollar [speaker002:] yeah well that's uh yeah I'll agree there [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] more powerful than you think [speaker001:] yeah it is well I think we met our time limit [speaker002:] yeah I think guess we did too all right well well you have a good day [speaker001:] so uh-huh thank you very much bye-bye [speaker002:] bye-bye

[speaker001:] go now what kinds of things do you like to listen to [speaker002:] good well my uh uh my interests lie mainly in classical music [speaker001:] is that right uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh uh uh although I wasn't raised with opera it's something that I've I come to enjoy how about yourself [speaker001:] well actually I kind of like those same things myself and um uh I did uh study some music in school although I'm not um a musician I just took it kind of as an avocation and I sing with the Brookhaven singers over at Brookhaven College you must be familiar with that name living in Dallas [speaker002:] right absolutely [speaker001:] and uh they have um a lovely woman over there who um teaches singing and um has a Saturday class as well as private lessons and uh we go and we sing for some retirement homes and at the Botanical Gardens and things like that and uh really very very very enjoyable and I do try to get down to the symphony at least a couple of times a year and I didn't get down to the opera this year though but I have in the past um but anyway I do enjoy listening to especially the classical music that has some kind of a story line or a theme like Beethoven's Pastoral and things like that where you can [speaker002:] sure [speaker001:] follow um through some of the mood of the of the melodies and not just have um you know a kind of mathematical arrangement of the notes which is [speaker002:] sound [speaker001:] also fascinating many times but I like that break of a kind of a story line sometimes what kind of uh pieces are your favorites [speaker002:] well I uh I tend to shy away from anyone who uh uh is born later than nineteen hundred [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] other than Aaron Copeland uh Aaron Copeland I enjoy [speaker001:] oh yeah uh-huh uh-huh what about Gershwin [speaker002:] oh Gershwin uh Gershwin's uh I I I uh I I haven't uh quite found jazz to be enjoyable and and and a lot of Gershwin has a a some of some of his work is a little uh has has has a touch enough enough of jazz uh [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum [speaker002:] that uh that uh is not particularly enjoyable for me to listen to the uh [speaker001:] um-hum um [speaker002:] uh uh like I I I suspect my favorites uh are in the uh seventeenth and eighteenth century uh uh musicians uh I'd [speaker001:] um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] the uh oh there's one uh uh I guess more recent one with uh Copeland uh is uh Raspegie who uh I was always amazed that he was uh so contemporary uh contemporary [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] um but I uh uh I our family gets down to uh the Myerson relatively frequently it it's our uh uh our one enjoyable uh if if we can make it to Saturday uh everything's okay [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum uh-huh [speaker002:] so it's uh it's a relatively busy uh activity we uh one uh very nice uh uh opportunity that we've had is the is the Dallas Chamber Orchestra [speaker001:] uh-huh oh really [speaker002:] that has uh uh uh actually it's it's it's wonderful they they have a Sunday matinee that uh uh if you buy two season tickets the kids go free [speaker001:] um-hum oh [speaker002:] and uh that gives us an opportunity to uh uh to take the to uh uh make sure the kids uh get uh get dressed up and and go to the symphony whether they want to or not and [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] and uh and they uh their they oblige us by falling asleep so least that's pretty good [speaker001:] how old are your children [speaker002:] they're uh eleven nine and eight which is and it's it's nice in that uh [speaker001:] oh isn't that wonderful though um-hum [speaker002:] in that uh their their you their they you can get real close to the uh to the chamber orchestra and see the music and watch the musicians it's uh it's a very intimate setting and the the music's really very good [speaker001:] um-hum I bet it is now I have never heard them um that Myerson auditorium is really is really quite acoustically beautiful I I have to admit that um I had the privilege of going to the uh piano concert that uh Yefgenya Chessum who is a young uh Russian artist gave I guess it was just before Christmas time [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and I'm telling and and it was no orchestra orchestra or anything it was just he [speaker002:] it was just a recital [speaker001:] and yes and I'm telling you the sound the sound was so so perfect uh I I had heard you know the orchestra the symphony and we went for the toy symphony and the young children's um uh uh orchestra from SMU and [speaker002:] oh um-hum right [speaker001:] several things down there this is the first time I just heard like one artist and [speaker002:] right

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] so what do you think is the major cause [speaker001:] well I I definitely think it's our the cars we drive and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I think you know everyone has good intentions and and thinks well I should carpool and I will and but that we just have so many different interests and so many different things we have to do it's it's a bother to have to pick somebody up and if you have a doctor's appointment or something and they have to get another ride home or [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] you have to arrange it's just a hassle and I guess we're not willing to do that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but that to me is probably the thing that needs to be done or to start using public [speaker002:] now do you live in a major city [speaker001:] Dallas Dallas area I live in Plano [speaker002:] in Dallas okay [speaker001:] which is just a a suburb of of Dallas do you live in a major city [speaker002:] right uh I live in Raleigh North Carolina [speaker001:] oh okay [speaker002:] and probably not quite as big as Dallas but uh [speaker001:] no well myself I I go to Richardson which is a I teach school and so I don't commute that far it's only about four miles but the majority of people that live in this area go into Dallas to work and and when you if you go out on the freeway and you look you see almost every car is just one passenger [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and our public transportation system's a joke so people just don't bother to take that because it's inconvenient we don't have any kind of a a train or uh you know anything like some of the big cities do [speaker002:] oh um-hum right [speaker001:] we're supposed to get one but it's you know way off in the future [speaker002:] way off yeah [speaker001:] but no it's just it [speaker002:] well I've found the easiest way is to is to ride bikes in Raleigh anyway and [speaker001:] oh is that right [speaker002:] I used to live in Colorado and it was even more of a bigger deal there but um [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] I ride my bike everywhere in town well there I probably wouldn't ride it to the the opposite side of town but I can ride it to downtown with no problem at all [speaker001:] how large is Raleigh [speaker002:] it's about two hundred and fifty thousand [speaker001:] so it's pretty big yeah [speaker002:] uh the diameter of the city is probably it's got a belt line around it which is a a diameter of about ten twelve miles [speaker001:] uh-huh and so you ride your bike to work and everything or aren't you oh well that's great [speaker002:] right which is about three and a half four miles [speaker001:] see that's that isn't even I mean I'm not sure that a person even a percentage of of of people in the Dallas area ride bikes to work you know I just don't think they do I never see anybody [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] um another thing that that I think our my family's real conscious of is is is to stop using aerosol cans and you know uh you know get another find another way instead of [speaker002:] right yeah that one so easy I don't know why people won't [speaker001:] you know the pump I know it really is and we just need not to buy the stuff and those businesses will have to change you know the corporations and so forth have to change if you don't buy it they're not going to make it so [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] yeah that is an easy one [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh you know and I notice probably a lot of uh commercial pollution and and factory pollution in Dallas you can see it some days it's really bad [speaker002:] yeah you can see it in Raleigh it's ugly [speaker001:] yeah it's yeah it's awful it's nothing like California where the smog is constant but it's still there and you know it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] if we I think if we really realized how much we do breathe in that's unhealthy we would immediately do something about it but I don't think people realize how unhealthy the the air is [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's what you said you're a school teacher [speaker001:] yes [speaker002:] um how much how how much education of air pollution and all that do you [speaker001:] well I think I don't see I only teach English and and uh but the science teacher I teach fifth grade and we're departmentalized and [speaker002:] okay [speaker001:] the science teacher does a really big unit on it and I think the kids are more informed than adults are I mean and [speaker002:] right yeah I would I would agree with that because I've done actually I've done some volunteer teaching on on uh ecology and all that at at a middle school [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and um the the kids knew well the teacher the science teachers were pretty sharp too but the kids in general know more than adults do about it [speaker001:] uh-huh they do they do and they and and I think that they are they care a little bit more and I think as adults we need to care because it's the the future for our kids and I [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I mean my kids are much more aware than I was at their age about things like that and I think it's it's definitely has to be that [speaker002:] right well it probably at your age it wasn't a problem [speaker001:] no it really wasn't it wasn't a problem it I mean it probably I'm sure it was beginning to be a problem but people were just weren't [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh aware of it like they are today and I think that's where it has to start with the kids because it's going to be their world soon and I think it and and we're real big on you know Plano which is a small suburb of Dallas about a hundred thousand [speaker002:] yeah um-hum okay [speaker001:] um I think we're more than that about a hundred thirty thousand now but um they're really trying their best to start recycling and things like that that will [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and we just we have separate garbage collections now for plastics and cans and newspaper and which I think is I mean that's that should be just a way of life for everybody you shouldn't even complain about it you should just do it [speaker002:] right right I think they ought to well the way it used to be was that you had you had to take your recycles to a special place it should be the other way around where you have to take your non recyclables to a special place and then people would [speaker001:] uh-huh that's true [speaker002:] would have an incentive [speaker001:] you're right you're right [speaker002:] yeah Raleigh has has curbside recycling which is really nice [speaker001:] well you know it just has to be when you consider the landfills we we're not going to have any soon and it's [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] it's ridiculous but the thing the quandary that I'm in is that that we had a great big article in in in the newspaper last week about I've been real big about going to to the store and asking for paper instead of plastic well [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] that is really controversial because some scientists you know f eel like plastic I mean paper is worse than plastic it's just it's just a real um debate about which one is is the best really the best thing to do is to bring um you know a cloth bag yeah [speaker002:] yeah yeah your own bag I do that sometimes but I I forget a lot [speaker001:] do you yeah I see that's what I do too I forget and and besides when I go to the store I have a family you know I I get maybe ten twelve bags of groceries and that would be a little a little expensive although you know I'm sure some [speaker002:] yeah I think I I don't know I think the paper's still got to be better because well the the major problem with paper usually is when they bleach it the dioxins they just usually end up getting dumped into the water supply [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] but um the grocery bags with them being colored or being raw paper I don't see that much of a problem as opposed to a petroleum product I mean tree trees can grow back if if they're handled in the correct way but the petroleum products like plastic I mean they're going to run out of oil whatever they're going to do [speaker001:] yeah um-hum [speaker002:] it doesn't grow [speaker001:] yes that's right that's right you're right [speaker002:] I mean that's that's where the main that's where I see that paper's got to be better [speaker001:] uh-huh well you know and they say that you know plastic is recyclable but not many people use them again you know [speaker002:] no it's and plastic like that is not a hundred percent recyclable it they lose a lot and it takes a lot of energy to do it [speaker001:] yeah that's true sure sure I think that you know I think that it's tremendous the research they're doing on all of this because I think we need to to know and be more aware of it so we can do some changing but [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] the majority of people are so lazy about it that they're not willing to to sacrifice a little to to make the world a better place and it's kind of sad because especially if you have children and because you know you want [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] your kids and their kids to to be able to [speaker002:] have a nice place to live yeah [speaker001:] be a part of a yeah a world that's halfway decent and you know just in my lifetime I've seen such a change in the environment and it's scary because by the time my kids have kids and they're growing up it's going to be a completely different world you know and it's it's scary so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know like I I know that I need to carpool and I don't and uh and I you rationalize and say well I only am four miles away and that it's no big deal and [speaker002:] um-hum yeah [speaker001:] well you know but [speaker002:] I guess the the first step is to find a happy medium I mean you could easily say well we should go back to living in caves but no one's going to do that so I think you need to make compromises slowly enough people adjust to it [speaker001:] and uh [speaker002:] right right not too slowly but [speaker001:] well you know just yeah just with with our thing in Plano it had when recycling garbage it hasn't it hasn't been that long and it was just uh really an easy adjustment for most people but there was a few small percentage that griped and complained and wrote [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know letters to the editor and you know like it was some real great big deal inconvenience and [speaker002:] um [speaker001:] but it seems to me you should just be able to give up a little bit to make the world better but some people don't think that so [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and some people don't and some people I think really believe and maybe they're rationalizing but they really believe that everybody's making a bigger deal out of the problem than it is [speaker002:] no way yeah [speaker001:] and that and that it's right no way it's it's there and we've got to face it [speaker002:] I think they're not making a big enough deal about it [speaker001:] that's right I think in some cases they aren't [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] and I see I wonder how I wonder how much the laws that Congress passed several years ago are really enforced as far as big companies and [speaker002:] yeah well I think there's a lot of violations that slip under the table [speaker001:] oh I think so too and I think that they're not fined the way they should be or they're they pay them off or whatever so they can get away with it [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I I was born in Ohio and when um when I was young we did we did a lot of fishing and on Lake Erie and I I mean when I went back [speaker002:] um-hum right [speaker001:] I just couldn't believe the difference it's just terrible the way it's polluted because of of big corporations that dump and you know and you just feel so bad because at one time it was a wonderful beautiful lake and now it's a mess [speaker002:] right hum I've I've never known it to be one so I guess I'm a little bit younger than you [speaker001:] yeah I when I was little my dad had a boat and we would go fishing on Lake Erie and it was beautiful [speaker002:] um-hum [speaker001:] and it's not beautiful anymore so and that's [speaker002:] um

[speaker001:] okay so what do you think about uh uh health care for the elderly [speaker002:] well I've got a mom who is uh eighty six years old this year and uh she she uh sometimes well she lived with us for a few years six actually six years and then she moved uh to live with my bother because she got tired of teenagers but uh in my house uh I think health care for the elderly is uh is uh its kind of a difficult I say difficult I mean there's as your body is running downhill they can spend an infinite amount to keep you alive [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and on the other hand it's kind of nice uh if you're taking care of an elderly person to have somebody come along and pick up the the uh the tab the the one thing that that mom got into was that was pretty nice was an HMO they took all the money from from uh Medicare how should I say it uh this HMO thing said uh had an agreement with Medicare that said uh on the average you're gonna spend X amount of dollars per year so if you'll give us that money we promise to take care of of uh all the bills [speaker001:] all the bills does that include um nursing home type care [speaker002:] no this is just you know standard [speaker001:] just strictly health care [speaker002:] health care like you'd get from your employer [speaker001:] right [speaker002:] and uh so at one point uh and and that was pretty good for her because uh there was a set of things that she knew she was covered for and uh and [speaker001:] right that's hundred percent coverage so it's that's good [speaker002:] well it was close to a hundred percent there were things that they wouldn't cover but they like they bought her a uh [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] a uh let's see they bought her a wheelchair and uh one one thing that was good about it was that it uh uh before that time she was always subject she she'd have these salesmen that would call and say hey if you'll just buy this handy dandy motorized uh easy chair for three times the the real price uh Medicare will pay for it and so she was always buying stuff that she didn't need [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] and then finding out that Medicare was either going to pay just a small fraction or no Medicare wouldn't pay for it [speaker001:] hm [speaker002:] so it kind of put the uh salesmen at bay put it that way [speaker001:] right so where does does she well um [speaker002:] so how about you [speaker001:] I guess in terms of where do you is your mother now in a a nursing home is [speaker002:] no she's still she's staying with my uh actually she's staying with my my brother's son who's doesn't have teenagers [speaker001:] right I guess that's the big question is um what what happens when they begin to get older I have a grandmother and it she's not really uh you know she's getting to the point where she almost can't be in a nursing home she spent some time with my parents some time now she's with an uncle of mine living with them [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but she requires a lot of attention and she can't really exist on her own any longer and that's that's kind of a difficult situation that that she has to live with one of her children [speaker002:] yeah it was difficult for us to because uh well actually it it was all right as long as she could could get back and forth to the uh you know to the bathroom and things like that but when she got when she got really sick and she couldn't move very much then it was exhausting absolutely exhausting [speaker001:] right yeah [speaker002:] you know so [speaker001:] yeah my uh my grandmother is hers is physically she's in not too bad of shape she's in her upper eighties I guess forgetting in my order but uh she's uh Alzheimer's I guess [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] and so her memory is very poor and so she can't really be on her own but she can still do things by herself but you just have to uh kind of direct her [speaker002:] yeah uh and that to that extent I think like I say this health care for the elderly is is uh I I think they do a lot there was one thing that that uh that helped pull my mom out of uh this oh I don't wanna know fog so to speak uh we had uh a a baby fairly late in life and uh as soon as that baby came along uh uh she paid a lot of attention to you know something to take care of I'll put it that way and something to pay attention to and and uh [speaker001:] um-hum [speaker002:] the other thing I've noticed is that that uh pets and and uh if they have pets to take care of uh like she got yeah she got uh [speaker001:] that's true

[speaker001:] think about this [speaker002:] uh do you have children in school um I have two that are uh now just about ready to graduate from college but I also have two that are just entering school um [speaker001:] I do oh so you see a big difference then in before and now do you or [speaker002:] uh well uh I think they're just pushing them much entirely to fast [speaker001:] a lot of testing [speaker002:] um well it seems to me that kindergarten is now the equivalent of first grade my son leaves the house at seven thirty and doesn't get home until three o'clock [speaker001:] uh-huh um-hum [speaker002:] and I think that's such a long day for a kindergartner [speaker001:] I do too I oh I think that's awful [speaker002:] and uh I have a preschooler um I was told by her preschool teacher that she thought maybe she was to immature for kindergarten and I thought well how mature do you have to be [speaker001:] I know really what's the new criteria huh [speaker002:] and uh there is a do you have the standardized testing now [speaker001:] we have all kinds of testing and it's over and over it's ITBS or and uh just everything everything and they test test test I live in Plano actually and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] I don't know if you've heard of Plano but it's a very transient community a lot of people from everywhere it's just north of Dallas [speaker002:] no um-hum [speaker001:] and it's grown in leaps and bounds I we must have maybe a hundred and fifty thousand people now and most of them from other places [speaker002:] oh yeah [speaker001:] uh JC Penney's come down from New York and of course TI and Xerox from Rochester and we just have lots of people from everywhere lots of industry coming in and it's a very wealthy community [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] uh not that I am but other people seem to be and I would love to know why but I mean they do they have I I would I really would I mean they just have beautiful beautiful homes and they have everything [speaker002:] yeah you'd like to know what they're doing right [speaker001:] the kids only wear name brand things to school and it's one of these things well it does you know it really does because I'm a single mom and I have a thirteen year old now and uh you know it does I mean we do it to a point but um [speaker002:] oh me well that makes it hard for you doesn't it oh me yeah it's hard to explain to them why you can't [speaker001:] not to where she feels different but some of them are very rich and so um we just kind of have everything here and we have a very goal oriented population because their parents are [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and so I don't know how much of it is us and how much of it is Texas but the kids are expected to excel in everything [speaker002:] oh dear [speaker001:] and it's almost impossible because you have so many children and just so many activities that everybody can't be first and they're expected to be you know their parents expect it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] the teachers expect it Texas wants very badly to be considered tops in the school system and if you read national surveys they're far from it [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and so there's just a whole lot of testing and a whole lot of pushing to do well on these tests and [speaker002:] how about the kids how are they coping with it [speaker001:] well not very well they bring home notes that say they have to get a good night's sleep and eat right in the morning before tests I mean they make a big deal to me the paper should just be put on the desk that day and say just do this [speaker002:] hum right [speaker001:] you know I just feel they do better that way and yeah and and I have older children too that now are out of high school and [speaker002:] yeah rather than anticipating [speaker001:] uh they've always done this you know I mean it's always been the same but it is it's getting worse and worse there's more pressure for everything and I just think it's really awful and I I'm with you on that you don't hear too many people say this but I think it's a very long day [speaker002:] oh it is [speaker001:] and my feeling is that you you know you're only a kid once and you don't wanna spend your whole life in school [speaker002:] that's right my son said that came home and he said he said mom all we do is work we hardly ever play and [speaker001:] um-hum um-hum and I don't think that's right I think we should do what Europe does and include cultural activities in our school system [speaker002:] oh likewise [speaker001:] I don't think I should have to pay for dancing lessons gymnastics piano I would like to see those things included in our school system because I think we should have well rounded kids [speaker002:] right wouldn't that be great um-hum [speaker001:] not just smart book smart kids [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] and so I just find this a real problem I think if they're gonna be there all day they should find time one of my daughters once was out of school with Mono in her junior year I think it was and she had a home teacher for like four hours a week and when she went back in six weeks she was ahead [speaker002:] is that right oh my gosh [speaker001:] so what does that tell you the it tells you there's a whole lot of wasted time [speaker002:] oh my gosh [speaker001:] and they could be using this time better [speaker002:] well for example in my son's kindergarten they're really finished at lunch time after lunch they have some uh I'm trying to think if they have recess after lunch and then they have naps or rest period [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and uh I think either send them home or do something [speaker001:] that's a very long day for kindergarten but I think that working parents have kind of demanded this [speaker002:] a little more interesting I agree I wouldn't be surprised [speaker001:] you know because they don't they don't wanna send them to day care [speaker002:] I doubt if they would say that it was too long [speaker001:] that's why they want them there because then somebody takes care of them all day so the [speaker002:] um do you have the before school care at your school and the after school care [speaker001:] we have them at some one school like

[speaker001:] okay [speaker002:] you think you're getting your money's worth [speaker001:] uh never [speaker002:] I [speaker001:] uh the only thing I'm I'm thankful of is that we don't have to pay any income tax here in in Texas [speaker002:] well that's probably the next year's agenda [speaker001:] yeah boy I tell you what I sure hope they don't pass something like that [speaker002:] oh yeah they're finding the way the tax you every time you turn around and I I think one way or the other we're gonna pay for the bureaucracy I guess and uh it's one area that's uh really I I think hurting the economy more than anything I think the taxes have just every time you turn around they they have taking more bite out of the dollars that are available for spending for any kind of products and I I I think that is probably as big a item fueling the recession as anything right now [speaker001:] well I I tell you um I remember every time it seems like we turned around they're adding another nickel or a few more cents onto the price of gasoline [speaker002:] that's right that's right [speaker001:] and actually that one the the the taxes on gasoline don't don't bug me as much as uh uh what are we eight and a quarter percent sales tax [speaker002:] yep that's right [speaker001:] and every time you go to buy anything now uh even though you know they they tax food that's the one that really kind of bothers me [speaker002:] well I think that uh that the problem with the sales tax of course is it's an unfair tax across the board uh as far as ability to pay which allegedly allegedly allegedly taxes are supposed to be directed towards but uh now people with the lowest income pay a hundred percent almost of you know taxes on everything they buy and where people that make you know two hundred three hundred thousand dollars a year certainly a portion of that they aren't going to be paying taxes on you know and uh that's the unfair equity inequities of sales tax as a main source of revenue but I don't think it is anymore not in Texas anyway [speaker001:] oh I got you because people that uh don't make very much money wind up spending it all [speaker002:] that's right that's right [speaker001:] and whatever they spent it on they have to pay tax on [speaker002:] that's right that's right and that's the unfairness of the thing but uh I think taxes generally are unfair [speaker001:] what what do you think of that new luxury car tax anything over ten thousand or thirty thousand dollars [speaker002:] well you know like other things if they don't affect you you don't worry about them too much [speaker001:] I [speaker002:] I have trouble buying a twenty thousand dollar car still so uh it doesn't I I think uh uh you know generally the prices of cars have gotten out of line which is uh you know and uh [speaker001:] oh sure [speaker002:] I guess if people got thirty forty thousand bucks to spend on a car uh that's their prerogative you know I I I don't have a whole lot of sympathy on that you you maybe you buy that you know and I don't mean to be knocking uh [speaker001:] no uh no I haven't but it it to me it seems really interesting that they come along and add another ten percent tax uh on top of it and there's an awful lot of cars that cost more than thirty thousand [speaker002:] yeah there are there are and the idea of that kind of taxation is to have people think twice on putting their money into that I guess you know unless they really want it buy something that you know more well it it's just like having taxes on or exemptions for kids you know it's a way of increasing the population that that was one of the initial ideas of you know giving exemptions on kids on on federal taxes [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] and where you exempt things like uh uh one of the best things I heard on taxes to stimulate the economy someone brilliant deductor probably Lloyd Bentsen said that all you know if they gave back the ah deductions on credit cards on your federal taxes people would probably be you know spending more money using their credit cards [speaker001:] right right [speaker002:] now I don't know if that's true or not but if you look on all interest things not just credit cards but on your cars and you know any any kind of interest that you're paying from a personal point of view that might make certain sense in stimulating consumer purchases [speaker001:] sure [speaker002:] so that's a lot of the games that politicians play on where they want to go you know tax things that they don't you know to a degree well like booze you know example they keep raising the taxes on booze it gets to the point you know it makes drunks sober you know they quit buying anything [speaker001:] well what what about the taxes on cigarettes

[speaker001:] regarding uh taxes I'm you know taxes are really a necessary evil in in a civilized society but really people get upset at taxes because you it's more efficient to do things yourself [speaker002:] right hm [speaker001:] and uh and so as as a result uh you know it's it's a trade-off you know for the common good you know for for the benefit of others you know how much of your resource should you dedicate to uh making things work for others have you uh you know ever thought you know just how much of that money should should go to other people that really don't deserve it [speaker002:] uh well yeah I know it's it's a lot you know that uh that I feel like you know just like you said that there's just so much that you can do yourself that you take care of your own self that you don't need the money for but they're giving it to other people that don't really need it either either but yet they accept it [speaker001:] well the thing of it is if I wanted to just uh you know permanently become a book reader I guess I could just uh you know uh go on public assistance uh you know look look look for uh look for people to uh take care of me and uh probably a good woman right [speaker002:] like so many people do uh-huh right [speaker001:] just you know just just con somebody to take care of me and and then you don't have to be on the tax roll [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but uh but taxes are are very difficult kind of thing and everybody everybody really hates it it was very timely I I I always over pay my my deductions so I wind up with my getting money back on my uh from my uh withholding [speaker002:] uh-huh [speaker001:] so uh you know that that's always a smile but of course you know I've I've paid it in and I should calculate it better [speaker002:] you are you in business for yourself [speaker001:] no no I I I I work for the FBI [speaker002:] okay I see [speaker001:] so I I'm a federal employee yeah guess I don't sound like it huh [speaker002:] right uh well I think I no I think that people that work for the government are just as against taxes as as everybody else you know most of them unless you work for Internal Revenue [speaker001:] yeah I've blown yeah oh I I've got all four feet in a trough you know being a federal employee and and and so but but I can understand that uh that you know the uh who gets benefits like every every time there is a a bond issue [speaker002:] yeah um-hum [speaker001:] you know I vote no on every one of them [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I'm I but this this is this is tax not tax revolt country I mean there's too many every one of us most of us have our have all four feet in the trough you know plus our snout right up to our ears [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so you know it's not exactly that kind of a place that that that you wanna you know get into a tax revolt situation [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] but uh um the um the local taxes here I I in in this particular area um you know I've uh I think I pay about uh oh thirty five hundred for for taxes on my four bedroom house you know and which is a lot of money and and uh and so as as people get older and older uh you know they think about retirement and that sort of thing and [speaker002:] right um-hum [speaker001:] and they they're building old peoples homes uh you know at tax expense sell I think you know the old people ought to just bail out of here and go where it's cheaper at thirty three hundred dollars at or thirty five hundred dollars I'm paying in taxes why I I I could go down to Bulverde and probably rent a rent a house for that right [speaker002:] yeah that's right for [speaker001:] you know instead instead it's it's the taxes here so course I don't know whether I wanna go to Bulverde or not [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] yeah or Seguin or someplace like that [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] but uh there's certainly lots of inexpensive places where the services are poorer and and I think really the only place you can really reduce the amount of taxes you pay is to move to an area where the services are poorer if you're not gonna use them then you wanna be in in an environment that's a strategy I think that that the people have to have to take is is how to be able to to lessen their cost of living you know and I'm I'm five six away years before I'm eligible to retire and and I'm saying well you know I really can't stay here uh as a retiree it's too expensive [speaker002:] after you retire yeah yeah [speaker001:] yeah I'm gonna have go out in and you know in you know East Fork someplace and and do my thing you know [speaker002:] right oh my parents are in the same situation you know they their home is paid for but still their taxes are so high that you know my father doesn't feel like he can retire because they couldn't pay the taxes and they have no children in school or you know anything now they don't use any of those services that a lot of the taxes go towards [speaker001:] right they they redecorated in nineteen seventy five you know and they're not doing it again again you know so well it's certainly uh uh you must be a TI employee [speaker002:] uh yeah yeah you must be what [speaker001:] you must be a TI employee [speaker002:] no I'm not no I I don't work I'm a student I go to school I'm in nursing school [speaker001:] you're not a TI employee who do you work for you're

[speaker001:] what do you think [speaker002:] um I don't know uh regarding um should the judge do the sentencing or not I think the judge should have some in influence but I don't think the judge should I think that's too much power in the control of one person [speaker001:] I agree I really agree with that [speaker002:] it uh it just doesn't seem to make sense that if the trial is by a jury of your peers that the sentencing should be somewhat along that I you know I guess the judge should give the parameters [speaker001:] right right right [speaker002:] and then the jury should work kind of within there and if they feel exceptional one way or the other do you know what I mean [speaker001:] right right yes I do I I have been thinking about this you're about the tenth person they tried to call for this so I've had lots of time to think but yes I do because um [speaker002:] oh is that right [speaker001:] otherwise why have a jury that's the point right yeah [speaker002:] right it seems to granted you're found guilty or innocent by a a group of peers of your peers but then the punishment you know can be very very severe depending on the the judge's personal uh predilection to that [speaker001:] right right I think that you get a much fairer deal with a jury than you do with a judge and that's that's been my experience and and I really think that I think that judges are very prejudice [speaker002:] right yeah I I would I [speaker001:] to just their own idea and they wanna get it over with [speaker002:] right I mean they're human they're gonna have their their pet peeves and they're gonna have the things that they really care about or don't care about [speaker001:] uh-huh right [speaker002:] um so let a group of people have you know try to try to make make you know use that uh make that decision [speaker001:] yeah I would feel much more confident if that were me so [speaker002:] unfortunately though it does string out the uh process but you know [speaker001:] well it does but I think it's because people are trying to be conscientious where a judge it's their job and you they just wanna speed it along and get it done and I don't think they stop and think about that individual as much as a group of people would [speaker002:] yeah right see I I also think there's a problem with the plea bargaining system in our in our country in that you can uh plead to even though you're guilty as sin [speaker001:] yeah yes yes yes [speaker002:] excuse me you plead to a lesser crime [speaker001:] yes yes [speaker002:] I think that that in of itself is a sin [speaker001:] I think that we're having a lot of problems um with just everything and the whole the whole system is bugging me it really is our jails are over crowded with people like Leona Helmsley who's seventy two years old and with a blank check in front of her [speaker002:] yeah yeah [speaker001:] I don't think should go to jail I think the punishment should fit the crime I think that the jail should be filled with real criminals that are dangerous and I don't think they should get out on parole in three years [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] I think they should stay there they did it they stay [speaker002:] yeah I well I [speaker001:] and people with traffic tickets and that there's another way to handle that I think [speaker002:] yeah um although I'll tell you the there is something about that woman uh her crime was is what they quote call a white collar crime as opposed to a blue collar crime such as crime stealing [speaker001:] so [speaker002:] uh well but she stole [speaker001:] well yes but if you look at it in relation to the amount I mean it's one million dollars which to you and I sound exorbitant [speaker002:] it's a lot of money [speaker001:] but compared to the six hundred million that they paid in five years that's like one dollar when we owe six hundred [speaker002:] that they the six the six hundred million that they what now [speaker001:] so they paid taxes six hundred million in taxes over that five year period [speaker002:] oh I see what you're saying [speaker001:] yeah so if you look at it they don't say that very much in the newspaper [speaker002:] yeah well no but they also diverted uh millions uh to their own personal assets that were hotel monies [speaker001:] well possibly you know I don't know but if they're willing to correct it I I don't I don't see that she belongs in jail the same as somebody who goes out and kills and walks away I mean I there are worse things that people are getting off with you know that kind of thing [speaker002:] oh see yeah yeah I have to I agree with that there are worse things that people have been getting off with but I don't think that that we then should have Leona get off I think that they should be hit even harder see I'm an advocate of the death penalty myself [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] now I don't know of a lot of people that are well there are and there aren't and I just happen to feel that if somebody does the crime [speaker001:] well yeah [speaker002:] I mean if they murder somebody they take someone's life [speaker001:] get them out of society [speaker002:] I just don't feel like I have to pay my tax dollars to have them in jail I yeah I just it's a tough line [speaker001:] yeah I know I agree with you agree and [speaker002:] but I don't think the way we're executing the the capital punishment is is a deterrent although I think capital punishment is a deterrent [speaker001:] I do too [speaker002:] if it's done right and that means that this is the way it is no ifs no ands no buts a certain [speaker001:] yeah it has to be a consistent thing [speaker002:] right a certain number of appeals and then that's it don't stretch it out for years get it over with and get it done [speaker001:] yeah um-hum

[speaker001:] yeah um [speaker002:] okay I'm uh we're not that we're not that big at dining out but uh in fact I guess since since uh we don't make it uh uh make a big hobby of it or anything we're we're really into uh we're interested in economy and uh you know a nice enough atmosphere that you can carry on a conversation [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] good food I mean that's important too [speaker001:] yeah that sounds about what we I mean we go out to places I mean we don't go to places where we all dress up and all that you know and all that we try to get uh you know some place that you know that's a little better than home and all but you know it's not going to cost a ton of money either [speaker002:] right right yeah well well we've got three kids and so uh and so uh I guess there's there's two kinds of dining out there's dining out with the kids and dining out without the kids [speaker001:] huh all right [speaker002:] and uh when we're dining out with the kids the the great places are those where you you know I don't uh are you uh you in Texas [speaker001:] no I'm in uh Maryland [speaker002:] Maryland well they've got a couple of places here I'm in I'm calling from Texas um there's a place that you know I can feed the five of us for under fifteen dollars and and it's all you can eat and uh that that's the kind of place that you take the kids to [speaker001:] yeah well I'd go there all five I mean how how old are the kids [speaker002:] well they they range from four to eleven and [speaker001:] that's pretty impressive [speaker002:] uh yeah oh well I I was amazed because we lived uh I'd lived uh in Virginia I was born and raised in Virginia and then uh we spent uh about ten years in New Hampshire [speaker001:] uh-huh uh-huh [speaker002:] and dining out especially with the kids has always been a major you know thing [speaker001:] yeah we're we're having a kid in October and it's like well you know no more no more eating out for a while [speaker002:] oh right but uh I was I was just amazed there's this one place called CC's pizza [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and it's all you can eat and it's for for grown ups its like four dollars and it's like I don't even think it's four dollars it's three dollars and something and for the for the the uh eight year old and the eleven year old it's it's like uh two dollars and something and for the four year old it's a dollar something [speaker001:] oh that's incredible [speaker002:] and it's all you can eat and it's decent pizza you know and it comes with a salad bar too but I mean the salad bar is essentially lettuce and carrots [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but uh but you know it's good enough to eat and then um there's uh another place called Pancho's Course they have to have Mexican food and uh the uh [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] the uh the grown ups eat for four dollars and something and the and the uh the eight and eleven year old eat for uh two dollars and something and the four year old eats for free and uh the grown ups get all you can eat and the kids have to have can only have like four items [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] but you go sit down at a table the great thing about this is you sit down at the table and they have a little Mexican flag and when you raise the Mexican flag the waiter comes over and he just gives you whatever you want [speaker001:] we got to look around here find out if there's anything like that around here [speaker002:] oh you'll find something like that uh especially when you have kids [speaker001:] that's yeah that's incredible I mean we just we're like well we're not going out for a while you know my folks live close you know fairly close here so it's like well we if we're going out to dinner we can drop the kid off at my folks and [speaker002:] yeah I know [speaker001:] and it's like oh great grandpa you know [speaker002:] well Maryland Maryland has some I mean um Maryland has some great seafood doesn't it [speaker001:] yeah there's um there's a place I live just outside of Baltimore in a town called Olicott City and uh there's a seafood place here called the Crab Shanty that's really good it's like rated higher than like the the seafood restaurants down in the inner harbor in Baltimore you know the the trendy section of Baltimore [speaker002:] uh-huh wow yeah [speaker001:] and uh you know we've eaten there sometimes and it's pretty good it's you know it's a little more expensive than than I normally like to spend plus the other thing is I'm not uh I'm not a big seafood fan [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] so you know it's like great we go to the Crab Shanty and I'm going to have veal you know [speaker002:] oh so what's what's eating out cheap for you is McDonald's or something like that [speaker001:] not that bad there's some well actually we've been we end up doing a lot is uh there's a couple of places around that are like uh yuppie I mean it it seems like a big thing now with uh with diners uh [speaker002:] diners oh yeah the back to the fifties [speaker001:] yeah there's um there's a place up in my my folks actually live up in Delaware and there's a place up there that we like to go to called um The Hop which is you know just a fifties diner basically and then there's um a chain around here called Silver Diner [speaker002:] uh-huh right yeah [speaker001:] um and you know you and uh let's see there's another one up in uh just north of Baltimore called Ralphie's Diner [speaker002:] huh Ralphie's [speaker001:] yeah um it was fun I'm uh I'm a baseball fan I you know my my girlfriend's like you know she she puts up with me being a baseball fan you know but uh we go we walk into this place Ralphie's Diner and I look on the wall and there's like uh [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] there's like uh like a relief of the of of the guy who Ralphie's Diner is named after and it turns out he used to work for the Orioles and she's like no not more baseball [speaker002:] yeah oh no kidding [speaker001:] but um all these places you know you can get like you know a hamburger or um you know um I've had turkey and meatloaf at all these diners and you know we usually get out of there for around twenty bucks [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's okay yeah [speaker001:] you know it's good food and everything and um you know you get malts or whatever so it's really good you know my only big gripe is every time I've gone to Silver Diner I have tried to get the banana cream pie and they they are always out [speaker002:] yeah yeah always out yeah we had a place like that that had uh in Virginia it was called Bill's Barbecue and they had the grest [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] greatest banana cream pie and it was was uh you could take it home it was was just it was so popular it was great stuff and now now my mouth mouth's watering I'm beginning to think about that yeah the uh yeah twenty dollar that's [speaker001:] oh sorry [speaker002:] we can do pretty that's that's what we try to aim for just the two of us or naw you know if we want to have some wine or something we start get into the forty dollar range I guess and [speaker001:] well neither of us are big wine d rinkers yeah we went out tonight and I had a you know I had a beer and and you know obviously since you know she's we're not we've been kind of laying off the alcohol since she's expecting and all that [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah sure sure [speaker001:] but we I mean even before I mean usually we you know we might have a beer but that's about it so [speaker002:] yeah yeah that's the same well we'll go to a place and of course being in Texas we'll go to a place and the big thing is frozen margaritas margaritas and uh so we'll have some nachos and drink and they they serve these margaritas in [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] I don't know do do you ever go to Howard Johnson's in uh I I don't know if there are even any Howard Johnson's around any more you used to get an ice cream sundae in that big old goblet [speaker001:] yeah there are yeah [speaker002:] well that's how that's what they serve these margaritas in these frozen margaritas it's just huge things [speaker001:] yes I've seen them I know that uh Chi Chi's has margaritas in big glasses like that [speaker002:] yeah yeah yeah Chi Chi's they they have Chi Chi's down here too but that's that's sort of looked down upon because they're a chain [speaker001:] oh oh yeah well I I I would I mean you know they've got them out here because it's you know they don't actually know what Mexican you know what Mexican food is here [speaker002:] right yeah right well I didn't either I mean you know to me Pancho's where I can where I can eat for less than fifteen bucks to me that's gourmet and everybody I say I went to Pancho's they all down at me down their noses you know it's like uh it's all right with me [speaker001:] yeah [speaker002:] well we've been to some what what have been rated fancy Mexican restaurants and uh they were good I have to say they were good [speaker001:] huh yeah I've got to try I um years ago um we we're uh my folks were um we were visiting Los Angeles or something and I remember being taken to a real fancy Mexican restaurant there called Senor something Senor Pico or something like that and [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] you know I hated everything at the time I just hated Mexican food I'd I'd love to go to some place like that now where it's you know a real Mexican restaurant and see if I like it [speaker002:] did you Mexican yeah yeah yeah yeah what kind of what kind do you like uh like Chinese or Italian or [speaker001:] I um I like Chinese and I should experiment more the problem is that my favorite food in the world is cashew chicken so any time I go to a Chinese restaurant I want cashew chicken [speaker002:] oh yeah my wife too that's her favorite too yeah you know it's funny with Chinese restaurants since you can't read the menu or anything you tend to stick with one thing I used to it used to always be sweet and sour pork for me and then I just I I started getting a little more health conscious [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] and I try to uh you know try something else you know something with a little more vegetables or something but yeah I was the same way but we haven't really eaten Chinese that much since we've been in uh Texas it's funny [speaker001:] I was just thinking the same thing it's like we haven't had Chinese in a while let's have a shake up we get this uh there's this take out Chinese place that I mean you know stone's throw from my apartment here [speaker002:] yeah right yeah yeah [speaker001:] and uh we can get they do this thing for dinner for two where we can get like um Kung Pao chicken you know it's a big you know container full Kung Pao chicken um pork fried rice two egg rolls and like you know [speaker002:] um yeah um [speaker001:] you know I don't know a pint or two pints or whatever of a wanton soup for like twelve fifty [speaker002:] yeah ooh what a deal yeah [speaker001:] yeah it's great we should have done that tonight [speaker002:] that sounds great well you know it's funny because the grocery store down the street it's one of these you know super grocery stores they have a a Chinese take-out [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] in the corner of it and the food's decent but it's expensive I think especially since it's all take out [speaker001:] uh-huh [speaker002:] uh yeah I'm well I like Italian food too but you don't there aren't that many Italian restaurants around here [speaker001:] there's um I'm trying to think there's a French restaurant real close but we've never gone there because I'm not [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] oh I'm you know I'm not a big French you know I I don't eat [speaker002:] I'm into quantity and French the French restaurants aren't [speaker001:] yeah well I also I also don't do snails so [speaker002:] right [speaker001:] it seems to me there's an Italian deli nearby that's pretty good uh [speaker002:] well of course when we

[speaker001:] all right I I like keep forgetting to make these calls I've been on this list for two months and I think I've made four calls [speaker002:] oh really I just oh I just got mine last week and I haven't started yet because I wanted to get one first see how it worked [speaker001:] right well they do have some kind of nice prizes and it's worth doing and I'm so mad I think I've had this for two months and like I've said I've made four calls and lot of times we don't answer the phone probably when I get mine early in the evening [speaker002:] really yeah [speaker001:] well we're supposed to talk about movies have you been to any lately [speaker002:] I have I was trying to think of the one I went to a couple of weeks ago but I forgot it already [speaker001:] uh I really haven't seen one since probably August because uh every weekend in in the fall we go to our high school football game on Friday then we go out with friends after and that's kind of the [speaker002:] oh that's your weekend yeah really [speaker001:] our social for the but oh I saw uh Robin Hood which I didn't care for [speaker002:] really I didn't see that because I didn't think I would care for it [speaker001:] no and my husband dragged me to it I like I think Kevin Costner's a nice fellow and he's nice looking but he just to me is not a very dynamic actor [speaker002:] oh yeah I think that's why a lot of people go to see him though right right [speaker001:] I guess because he is good looking I don't know oh I saw City Slickers did you see that was a that's the last one I saw I think [speaker002:] yes I did see that and I really enjoyed that [speaker001:] I did too I thought that was so cute and [speaker002:] yeah I thought that was appropriate just for everyone yeah that was great [speaker001:] oh I do too oh I I really enjoyed that [speaker002:] yeah and my daughter went to see that one too so it was fine for her [speaker001:] and right which most of them probably aren't I don't know what my kids see any more my kids are twenty and sixteen so they've probably seen about everything at this point [speaker002:] so yeah right well that's right probably they have them my daughter is twelve [speaker001:] oh [speaker002:] and we had a sleep over one night they wanted to watch Pretty Woman which I have and I was hesitant and they all had seen it anyway [speaker001:] um-hum oh I know it that's the way it is [speaker002:] and they're all twelve so [speaker001:] we can see some pretty raunchy stuff on on just regular TV without cable or even you know there's no way to protect them any more [speaker002:] yes they do yes they do right but I I love Julia Roberts's movies but I didn't think they were great for my daughter [speaker001:] so no right it'll teach a great lesson because she ended up so in so well but it was a fun movie to watch [speaker002:] no really really oh I love Pretty Woman and then I like that one after that where oh what was it it was like a Fatal Attraction thing yeah [speaker001:] oh the scary one oh yeah I didn't see that Predator [speaker002:] I don't remember the name of it but that was so good [speaker001:] oh really [speaker002:] that was really excellent [speaker001:] oh I like scary ones that are realistic [speaker002:] yeah that that was that was [speaker001:] they say Cape Fear is really frightening too Cape Fear the new one that came out [speaker002:] what was oh I don't know [speaker001:] they say it's really horrifyingly scary but uh I'd never get my husband to that he doesn't like to be scared [speaker002:] really oh the last scary thing I saw was Misery [speaker001:] oh and my kids both saw that they liked it [speaker002:] I that scared me to death and I watched it at a friend's house on video and I was just oh yes it was horrible it was so awful [speaker001:] it was still scary oh my gosh I know that one sounded gross I know my husband wouldn't have stood for that he means he likes Mary Poppins and things yeah [speaker002:] really I like that too I like funny movies and I like scary movies [speaker001:] I do too I really I really like a variety [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] where you from [speaker002:] I'm from New York [speaker001:] oh I was gonna say well my husband's from New Jersey and we lived there for five years when we first got married and so it sound kind of nice so was familiar your accent [speaker002:] is he really oh yeah yes it's so close because I'm from Long Island so that's close you know that's more related to New Jersey than it is to like Rochester New York those that kind of thing [speaker001:] oh right I don't know they talk up there [speaker002:] yeah different it's it's different yeah I guess [speaker001:] just uh different um-hum well see the accents up there fascinated me because even in his family alone there were several different accents the way they would pronounce words differently [speaker002:] oh really [speaker001:] and and his family they lived in the same house there most of them were twenty or so you know [speaker002:] really and they were all from New Jersey hum [speaker001:] yeah um-hum and they lived you know they never moved into apartments when they were young they always stayed at home until they got married it seemed to be the custom up there or they went in the service and so they were together for all that time [speaker002:] really yeah [speaker001:] but they still had the accents differed a little in the family [speaker002:] huh [speaker001:] so and it [speaker002:] when did you live there [speaker001:] uh in the sixties I finally I finally [speaker002:] oh yeah well I was in New York in the sixties yeah [speaker001:] oh really I converted him to being a Texan I I just thought life would be I knew it was easier back here [speaker002:] are you from Texas [speaker001:] well sort of I'm an Air Force brat but I was real familiar with Texas I went to college here and everything [speaker002:] oh yeah oh yeah [speaker001:] and I just thought you know we could probably get a better house and life is a little slower a little easier and he loves it he he really would never want to leave so it worked out [speaker002:] it is it is yeah I'm used to it now so I like [speaker001:] probably hard when you first came [speaker002:] hum [speaker001:] was it hard when you first came [speaker002:] oh yes it was because we're here eighteen years [speaker001:] oh my [speaker002:] and you can imagine what Plano was like eighteen years ago [speaker001:] oh I know oh compared to New York oh yes [speaker002:] it was very difficult yeah it was very very difficult I didn't even want to talk [speaker001:] you all transferred [speaker002:] yeah [speaker001:] um [speaker002:] yeah so [speaker001:] I have a friend down the street's from New Jersey and they were he got a